March 8, 2025 • 33 mins
Lindsey Workman takes us on a deeply personal journey through her experience raising a daughter with Tuberous Sclerosis Complex (TSC) - a rare genetic disorder causing benign tumors throughout the body. When Daisy was diagnosed at just three months old after experiencing infantile spasms, Lindsey found herself navigating unfamiliar medical territory with little community support.
What follows is a candid conversation about the realities of special needs parenting - from the early days of diagnosis where doctors cautioned against Google searches to the present day where Daisy, now approaching her ninth birthday, has made remarkable progress. Lindsey doesn't shy away from discussing the difficult parts: the seizures, behavioral challenges, self-harm incidents, and the isolation that many special needs families experience.
Perhaps the most powerful message comes when Lindsey reflects on her decision to keep Daisy in a "bubble" during those early years. "Don't do that," she advises other parents. "Go out into the world early, because you will wish that you did." This hard-earned wisdom highlights how isolation, while sometimes easier in the moment, creates bigger challenges down the road for both child and family.
When Lindsey couldn't find local support specifically for parents of young children on the autism spectrum, she created it herself. Her Facebook group "Caregivers Raising Children on the Spectrum" has become a safe space where parents can connect without judgment, share resources, and simply know they aren't alone. As she eloquently puts it: "Life is messy and it's nice to be messy with others."
Join us for this moving conversation that reminds us all that sharing our stories openly not only lightens our own burden but creates community where isolation once existed. Whether you're a parent, educator, or healthcare provider, Lindsey's perspective offers valuable insights into supporting families navigating complex medical and developmental challenges.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome back their perspectives and experiences and
so on and so forth.
We've been able to have otherteachers, we've been able to
have different service providers, and one of the things that we
really wanted to do when we kindof started this whole podcast
idea was let's get everybody atthe table that is involved in
(00:40):
that IEP world, that findsthemselves in IEP meetings and
say, hey, let's create a placewhere we can all kind of sit and
chit-chat and learn from eachother.
So today, this evening, thismorning, whenever you're
listening, we have yet anotherguest, and this one and I say
this every time, but I mean itthis is a special guest, like we
(01:05):
have another special guest.
But I'm not going to go intoall that, I'm not going to give
out all the details.
I'm going to let Mrs Curtis dothat because— Mrs Curtis.
Yes, okay, I'm going to let herdo that.
All right, you got it, curdy.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
We've got—so.
This person started as a parentof one of our students and I
think I consider her.
She's still a parent of one ofour students, but I also
consider her a friend, and so wehave Lindsay Workman and she's
also our boss's wife.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So real quick then, before we even move on, what is
something that you can tell usthat nobody else knows Like?
Is he like in witnessprotection, or is he like a
closet Swifty, or no, no, heruns his mouth too much to be in
the witness protection.
Gotcha, gotcha.
I get that, definitely not aSwifty, so yeah.
So we're going to talk aboutsomething tonight that, like I'm
(02:08):
not real familiar with, I can'teven say it right, and so what
I'm also going to do now is I'mgoing to go ahead and let Mrs
Curtis lead us in.
All right, I keep calling you,mrs Curtis.
I'm sorry, laura, I don't thinkyou ever use Laura.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It keep calling you Mrs Curtis.
I'm sorry, laura.
Sorry.
I don't think you ever useLaura, it's usually Curdy Curdy.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Curdy.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Because we have one that calls me Curdy.
So let's see, we've been.
Is it four years now that wehave been working with your
child, lindsay?
Since kindergarten,kindergarten, first, second.
Yeah, so this is our fourthyear getting the privilege of
working with Miss Daisy, and sothere's been a lot of growth and
(02:57):
a lot of learning, and I haveto say that I think Daisy's
probably the first and onlystudent that I know that has
this, the rare disease that shehas, and I'm going to let you go
ahead and let us know.
Like, what is it that?
What is it that Daisy has beendiagnosed with?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So Daisy is the first person I've ever known or do
know or met with a tuberoussclerosis complex, and that can
be the only time we have to saythat we can just call it TS or
TSC.
And that is a rare geneticdisorder that causes benign
(03:39):
tumors to grow in pretty muchall her major organisms and on
the outside of her skin, hereyes, her heart, her brain, her
kidneys and just on the femaleside, when they hit puberty in
their lungs.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
In their lungs, mm-hmm, oh, that sounds—.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And I'm not sure why just the ladies get to enjoy
that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, that's like I did not expect you to end up on
the lungs Right it's like yeah,that's pretty crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And it's once they hit puberty.
So when I heard that, I stoppedlearning more about that
because we had enough in frontof us to learn about.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So, one step at a time.
Because was that?
How old was it?
Was it something that she wasborn with or did it develop?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
She was born with it and how she got diagnosed is at
three months old she startedhaving infantile spasms and we
took her to Wolfson's and shehad one white patch on her leg
and that is how they made theconnection from infantile spasms
(05:01):
and TS, because with tuberoussclerosis they get several skin
conditions and one of them iswhite patches.
The other ones are, you know,the freckle looking ones on her
face and like the other one islike raised, raised, almost like
(05:24):
an orange-feeling type patch,and she got all three of them
and so that's how they connectedthrough many other tests that
they did while we were inWolfson's, and that was the
first time I've ever heard ofthat.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And so when you first heard about that, so what you
know, what was your, you knowthe experience of learning about
that, I know, I'm sure it wasconfusing and it was
overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I had no idea what it was.
I didn't know what that meantfor the future.
What it meant for right now.
Future, what it meant for rightnow.
And the doctor told James and Inot to go and get on Google
because that will they'll freakus out.
James didn't.
I did Right.
(06:16):
I think that's kind of typical,yeah that works.
I wanted to be prepared, Iwanted to know what to expect,
but because, like autism,tuberous sclerosis is a spectrum
, people can have it and youdon't know that they have it.
And they can go their wholelives without even being
diagnosed because they don'tknow that they have it.
(06:37):
But, in true Daisy fashion, itwas very clear.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
She's like, hey, y'all, it was very clear.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
She's like hey, y'all , she lets you know, right?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yes, and so what were some of the key challenges
during that time?
For us it was just the seizures, Because she was three months
old and it started with theinfantile spasm, so that was the
scariest thing, of course.
And then knowing we weren'tsure if she was going to be able
(07:11):
to sit up by herself ever or ifshe needed assistance to walk
or be able to feed herself.
But she was able to get on withearly development and we had
somebody come to our house andhelp her with OT and it took her
(07:32):
longer to learn to walk, but assoon as she did she was running
.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Very good.
So that early intervention,that's what we keep hearing over
and over again.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yes, early intervention.
So important, so so important.
We got in like as soon as herdiagnosis.
We have somebody coming out thenext week.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Very good, were there things that they told you that
she wouldn't be able to do?
That she's doing now.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
They said you don't know, she could be in a
wheelchair, she could never talk, her delays could keep her at a
three-year-old indefinitely.
It's just, you never know whatyou're going to get.
(08:23):
You don't know what theoutcome's going to be, just you
never know what you're going toget.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
You don't know what the outcome is going to be, and
so what are some of theconditions?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
that go along with her TS.
So with that, like I spokeabout the skin issues and the
tubers that grow the seizures,so she's also diagnosed with
epilepsy and hers are calledabsent seizures or vocal
seizures, where she just kind oflooks frozen.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And if you don't know how to spot it.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
You don't even know that she's having one.
That is true.
She's never had a major seizure,thank God.
I would never want to see thatand my heart goes out to any
parent that has to see theirchild go through that kind of
seizure.
But still the same.
She could have these seizuresback to back to back to back to
back multiple times a day andthey make her tired, they make
(09:24):
her aggravated and they cancause delays.
And then another thing thatcomes is so they call it TAND
T-A-N-D, which is a behavioralumbrella just for children with
(09:45):
tuberous sclerosis, because ofthe aggressiveness that can come
with the diagnosis sudden rage,hyper fixation, obsessing
self-harm, which Daisy has had.
Every single thing that theylist with TS she has encountered
(10:08):
and come across and has toconquer each day.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And how does that affect your life on a daily
basis and your family's dynamic?
How does that impact you?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
It's very challenging , it's very, very difficult, but
I can say for the whole familythat it gets better.
Yeah, we're doing better, she'sdoing better.
She has many specialists thatshe sees and we finally got her
in with a behavioral specialistthat has given her medicines
(10:50):
that seem to be night and dayfor her with her attitude, and
y'all know like she's not apatient person and that's one
thing that really upsets her iswhen she has to wait and that
can cause her to self-harmherself and get upset.
And immediately after thebehavioral therapist put her on
(11:15):
a medic, a medicine, I feel likewe all saw a big change in her
aggressiveness.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, I got the look, it's like let's wait and see
where you wanted to go.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But it's just now, even though it's hard and
challenging, it's just nowfeeling like it's getting easier
.
As a family In the beginning afamily In the beginning we felt
like we had to live in a bubble,and COVID happened right when
we got her autism diagnosis andright when we started seeing
(11:53):
those behavioral issues.
So it was much easier just tolive in a bubble.
And don't do that.
Don't live in a bubble.
Go out into the world early,because you will wish that you
did.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I know that's a conversation we've had with each
other.
I know we've had it with youand James as well, and we try to
talk about it and say, yes, dothe hard work now, because they
get bigger.
It's so much harder.
Bigger, they get bigger, theyget stronger and it's it is,
it's they're easier to um, solike manipulate not no well, I
(12:36):
mean physically manipulate.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
When they're smaller, you can right yeah but get them
.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Get them used to doing things and get into a.
You know, this is what we dohere and this is what we do
there.
When they're smaller, you can,right, but get them used to
doing things and get into.
You know, this is what we dohere and this is what we do
there.
When they're younger thantrying to take them out and I
think I've shared before aboutmy experience taking Xander to
Publix and him just sitting downon the floor and I think he was
about Daisy's age and he's upI'm not going anywhere because I
wouldn't give him whatever itwas that he wanted at that time
(13:03):
and he plopped his little rearend down on that floor in Publix
and screamed and of course, Iwanted to go.
No, I'm never taking him to thestore again.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
That's what I did.
That is what I did, and that isa mistake.
That is a big, big mistake, andI still don't take her to
stores.
Yeah it's hard.
I tried, I have tried, but Ican see, because of me not doing
that, how much harder I made iton the both of us.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, I think that would be, that would be a needs.
They kind of need.
They kind of need.
Some feel like they need somepermission to fail at times and
to do things that, to try thehard things, and and it all fall
apart.
And that's OK, because that'sthat's how we progress, that's
how we progress as human beings,that's how we progress in our
(14:02):
relationships, that's how weprogress as human beings, that's
how we progress in ourrelationships, that's how we
progress as families.
And so it is important to takethose shots and to fail and to
try again and to get back up,because nothing's going to go
right the first time.
It just doesn't work.
Life doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Right, and it's much better to do that and to feel
embarrassed and to feel ashamedwhich nobody should than to feel
isolated your whole life.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And so what it does, is it and I'm just kind of
listening to you talk about thisis that it gives you this.
I mean it helps you as a parentto grow as far as your strength
and your willingness to—we canalways say that we don't care
what people think, but we'llbattle that right.
We battle.
Nobody wants to go somewhereand have people thinking certain
(14:52):
ways of them, but you know,when putting yourself in those
situations becomes the norm,you're going to grow as a person
.
You're going to grow as aparent becomes the norm.
You're going to grow as aperson.
You're going to grow as aparent, and then your child gets
the best you that you can givethem, and so that, yeah, I mean
that's like top tier, necessarywork, but it's hard and it's
(15:15):
hard to do it by yourself.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
They get a better shot at being out in the world
too.
I think that's it's hard yeah.
It's really really really,really hard.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, like Jared's, shared some of his experiences
where he's been at familyfunctions and like okay, I got
to go now.
Us too.
I can't do this now, but then,like you said, you just keep
trying and the more you do it,the more they get used to it and
understand okay, this is what Ido here, and that's one of the
(15:48):
things we notice about Xander ishe knows what is expected in
his environments and hewill—that's one of the ways we
realized that that little boogercould sit still for longer than
three seconds is that we wentto a school assembly and there
he was sitting on the floor withhis classmates where, anywhere
else we go, he's running allaround said, okay, yep, we got
(16:11):
you we got your number we'lldefinitely get a whole different
version of our children thanthe parents agreeded and we're
on both sides of that becausewe've had conversations and you
know we've had the shoe, the funshoe issues and you know
different new things and a lotof times they will, our kids
(16:34):
will do things for theirteachers that they won't do,
won't do for us, and yeah, likewhat y'all can get out of her is
amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Not mom.
Mom cannot get a fraction ofwhat y'all can get from her.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Well, but mom's going to love her no matter what she
does.
That's right.
I hope she knows that about usas well, but she definitely
knows that about mom, yeah well,she raised me Right.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Funny how that happens.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
So you've talked a little bit about the medical
support and educational support.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
What about support out in the community?
So nobody knew what tuberoussclerosis was and I didn't know
anybody with autism or thatwanted to let me know that they
had it or that their child hadit.
I didn't know anything aboutautism besides what I saw on tv,
which is more of the Asperger'sor high functioning.
(17:43):
They talk but they're just alittle quirky or different.
So that's all I knew aboutautism.
That's not what I got.
I got a different kind ofautism.
So it's like we all had tolearn together my family.
So it's like we all had tolearn together my family,
(18:08):
james's family.
But we are lucky that we bothhave families that wanted to be
in Daisy's world and wanted tolearn how to function with her,
what her boundaries are and thatboundaries are important and
that their feelings don't gethurt when I say we can't come
last minute or I know we justgot here two seconds ago, but we
have to go and no, it's notthat she doesn't like you.
(18:31):
So I didn't have any localsupport.
I had support through theinternet.
I found like mom groups andthere's a TS Alliance.
(18:54):
So that's how I reallyconnected with her condition to
learn about that and I knewbecause of her condition that
it's the strong likelihood it'slike somewhere between 70 and
80% that the child will haveautism as well.
So I knew it was coming.
(19:14):
I don't think dad knew, but Iknew it was coming and I knew
around before she was even twoand so she was diagnosed at
three.
Oh no, maybe a little bitbefore three because of her
condition.
But we do have a special needscommunity in town, but it's
(19:35):
geared more towards after schooland when they're adults, but
there was nothing for young kidsor before school or during
school.
No community like that.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So what have you done to help bridge that gap?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So I created a Facebook group for caregivers,
for local caregivers, forchildren on the spectrum,
because I had so many moms andpeople private message me.
Are there any groups locally?
Are there anything here in town?
(20:18):
My child was just diagnosed, orI think my child does have, but
they're not comfortable withbeing public about it or they
don't know where to go to.
So I created this group, hopingthat they don't have to feel
alone and that they can feelseen and validated and know that
(20:42):
it's not just them goingthrough this.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I know it makes a huge difference in anything that
you're going through in lifethat's difficult to have an
understanding that there arepeople that at the very least
can understand what it is thatyou're sharing.
They may not have to or theymay not be able to understand
(21:06):
every aspect of it, but ifthere's something that you can
connect with or somebody canconnect with you that allows to
kind of lift that that burdenjust a little bit, it makes all
the difference in the world.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
yes, it does and I don't know why nobody is talking
about the no sleep thing withchildren with autism, how they
just don't sleep and it's, it'sreal.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, so xander used to.
He would.
He would stay up until like 2o'clock in the morning and he'd
wake back up at 5 when he wasyounger.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Very, very, very little rest.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Well, he would go to bed, but we would hear him in
there.
We were fortunate that when hewent to his room to go to bed he
did stay in there, but we wouldhear him in there giggling and
laughing and humming and talkingto himself, and but then, even
on the weekend, that if hewanted to stay up, he would
(22:07):
still wake up at the same timethat he got up for school.
Now, now that he's a teenager,oh, yeah, that's not an issue
anymore.
So 10, 11 o'clock.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Once again it does get better.
Fingers crossed, and she isdoing so much better.
This year of life is the firstyear where I could leave her in
her room and walk away.
The very first year, so she'llbe nine on the 15th.
The very first year, so she'llbe nine on the 15th.
(22:41):
So eight plus years is how manyyears I have been right by her.
So of course it's going to bedifficult putting those
boundaries down, but this year,after some advice from you, and,
by the way, that you wasdirected to Laura because I
don't do that well.
As Daisy likes to call her,Curtis.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Curtis With her voice , with that gruff voice.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
She likes to do her voices.
So, outside help, outsideadvice, I would have never even
have tried, because I would havejust thought this is how it has
to be.
I have to be right by her.
She obviously needs me.
I can't just leave.
If I leave her alone, somethingbad can happen.
(23:30):
No, that's how she raised me.
That's how she manipulated me.
We can be apart and now thatshe'll get up in the middle of
the night and sometimes she'lljust go grab her tablet and not
wake anybody up and what ablessing.
Right, yeah, year eight hasbeen much better than year seven
(23:56):
or six or five.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Those were particularly really rough years,
you've already shared somethings.
Is there one thing that if youwant somebody to walk away
whenever it is I'm going to saythis evening, but they might not
(24:19):
be listening this evening butone thing that you would want
them to walk away with?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
I would say don't be afraid or ashamed to share you
and your child's story and toask for help or say, hey, is
anybody else's kid doing this oris anybody else having trouble
here?
Because you are going to findso many more people going
through the same thing that youknow, and then you could get
(24:46):
advice that changes yourlifestyle.
That really, really helps isjust don't be afraid, don't be
ashamed.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
There is no reason to be ashamed.
And so if you had one hope orwish for the community that you
have started, what would youlike to see it blossom into?
Like perfect scenario.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I would love for people to engage more and be
more active and it would begreat if we could start planning
something with the kids andbecause we all know we can plan
something and it's not going togo that way and that's okay and
that's expected from ourchildren, and we can get our
(25:35):
kids together and you're goingto have to keep running after
yours and this one's going toprobably be hitting himself or
hitting something else.
There's going to be lots ofdistractions and not in
quotation marks typical behavior, and that is a safe place
because nobody will be typicalhere absolutely, you got, you
(26:00):
got, mr curtis thinking overhere, mr curtis.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I'm calling mr curtis jared.
Yeah, that's okay.
You can call me whatever youwant, curtie, but no, I was just
thinking about the.
Uh, just that.
We've been talking about theimpact of being able to be real
with people being able to walkthrough life.
The worst things that we carrywith us are the ones that we try
(26:26):
to hide or the things that wetry to push to the back.
And again like you were talkingabout earlier.
Um, early on it is easy to tohide, it is easy to kind of just
disconnect from everybody anddeal with your own little issue.
But one of the things thatcomes with that is this, this uh
(26:48):
, horrible feeling of of beingalone and having no idea what to
do.
So, if we can go ahead and dropthe walls because I know
something else that we run intoan awful lot is that parents
almost feel like they have to bethe authority on all things
(27:10):
that their child is dealing with.
Right, like, okay, so we have ason with autism, so we have to
know how to answer everyquestion about autism.
We have to know all the answers.
When somebody asks me about it,I have to be the authority.
I have to know what I'm talkingabout.
And the truth is this we'restill learning every day.
I mean, we're raising a boywith autism.
(27:33):
We've even taken courses on itit right, we're still trying to
figure it out, um, but ifbecause we're all still learning
absolutely and when we, when westop learning is when things go
bad.
So what is your?
I think you probably alreadysaid this, but I forgot.
So what is the name of thisgroup that you have on Facebook?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I should have wrote that down, so I made sure that I
said it right.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Well, I'm sure that Laura will find it if she needs
to.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I'm pretty sure it's caregivers raising children on
the spectrum.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Ding ding, ding, you got it.
The spectrum Ding ding, ding,you got it.
I try to make it super clear.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So what's your point?
Very cool.
So we'll definitely we'll pushthat and we'll throw it on our
Facebook and whatnot, because,again, it's all about the team,
it's about people workingtogether, and when we work
together and we support eachother, that's when the best
things happen.
And it really does take avillage, it really does take a
(28:50):
tribe, for our children tobecome everything that they
possibly can be and to progressto the point that they are
living their best lives.
And at the end of the day, Ithink that's what we all really
want is we want to be able tosee our children function in
life the best that they can andget all that they can out of it,
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
And it's a messy life .
This is not a cookie-cutter,picture-perfect portrait here.
Life is messy and it's nice tobe messy with others.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Absolutely, it's always more fun right, yes, yes,
and then you don't feel Likeyou said, real.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
It's real Because you keep isolated for so long.
That's gonna come withdepression and that's gonna come
with a lot of other things.
And if you're depressed, howcan you help your child Because
of how you feel?
And then that spirals into.
(29:47):
Then you have guilt about yourfeelings and it's okay to feel
that way because it is hard andyou don't know what to do
because nobody knows what to dowhen you have a child on the
spectrum.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
We didn't get an owner's manual.
I'm guessing you probablydidn't either.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Why keep asking for one?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, and like you said, it's a spectrum too, so
what works for one child doesn'twork for another child, exactly
work for another child.
But you know, and just to sayI'm so I was so glad to see you
make that group and to step outof, because I know you were
looking for something yourself.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I was looking for one too.
I was one of the people whowere like, messaging me.
I was messaging others.
I'm like is there a group formoms with young kids on the
spectrum to where we could justvent, maybe, or get advice or
anything?
And when about the fourth orfifth person had asked me, I
(30:43):
said enough is enough, I'll justmake it myself.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yep, there you go.
Sometimes that's what we got todo.
Okay, nevermind, I'm just goingto, I'll do it myself.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
And I hope it gets more engagement.
It is a safe place.
Nobody is here to judge.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Very good.
Yeah, that sounds excellentstep in moving out and meeting
people and forging theserelationships.
What's been really cool for usis we've found a whole slew of
people that love Xander that ifwe were trying to just, you know
(31:27):
, keep them all held up in this,he wouldn't be able to
experience that.
They wouldn't get to know himand he wouldn't be able to
experience that they wouldn'tget to know him and he wouldn't
be able to know them, and soit's been great to see the
impact on his developmentbecause of the interactions that
he gets to have with peopleoutside of his own family.
So do everybody a favor.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Get your kids out there because, how is the world
supposed to learn if we keepthem isolated?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
So, with that said, I think we're going to wrap this
thing up.
We hit our 30 minutes and see,it wasn't so bad, was it no?
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I think it was all right.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
But thank you again, lindsay, for hanging out with us
, for answering some questionsand being willing to talk to us
about your super awesomedaughter.
And, by the way, I think you'reaware of this, but I just want
to make sure you know, ifnothing else ever pans out, this
girl can be a death metalsinger.
She has a beautiful voice whenshe's singing but, boy, when she
(32:32):
turns it on, it's like it'searth shaking.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yes, Found that out during Christmas carols in her
kindergarten year.
I was like oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
She's got it.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
She's a rock star.
Oh yes, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
All right, so we're going to sign off.
Thank you again for hanging outwith us, lindsay, and thank you
for people other than my momthat listen to this, because
I've been yelled at a coupletimes for saying that she's the
only one that listens.
We're going to wrap this up andwe'll see you guys next week.
Welcome back their perspectives and experiences and
so on and so forth.
We've been able to have otherteachers, we've been able to
have different service providers, and one of the things that we
really wanted to do when we kindof started this whole podcast
idea was let's get everybody atthe table that is involved in
(00:40):
that IEP world, that findsthemselves in IEP meetings and
say, hey, let's create a placewhere we can all kind of sit and
chit-chat and learn from eachother.
So today, this evening, thismorning, whenever you're
listening, we have yet anotherguest, and this one and I say
this every time, but I mean itthis is a special guest, like we
(01:05):
have another special guest.
But I'm not going to go intoall that, I'm not going to give
out all the details.
I'm going to let Mrs Curtis dothat because— Mrs Curtis.
Yes, okay, I'm going to let herdo that.
All right, you got it, curdy.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
We've got—so.
This person started as a parentof one of our students and I
think I consider her.
She's still a parent of one ofour students, but I also
consider her a friend, and so wehave Lindsay Workman and she's
also our boss's wife.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So real quick then, before we even move on, what is
something that you can tell usthat nobody else knows Like?
Is he like in witnessprotection, or is he like a
closet Swifty, or no, no, heruns his mouth too much to be in
the witness protection.
Gotcha, gotcha.
I get that, definitely not aSwifty, so yeah.
So we're going to talk aboutsomething tonight that, like I'm
(02:08):
not real familiar with, I can'teven say it right, and so what
I'm also going to do now is I'mgoing to go ahead and let Mrs
Curtis lead us in.
All right, I keep calling you,mrs Curtis.
I'm sorry, laura, I don't thinkyou ever use Laura.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It keep calling you Mrs Curtis.
I'm sorry, laura.
Sorry.
I don't think you ever useLaura, it's usually Curdy Curdy.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Curdy.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Because we have one that calls me Curdy.
So let's see, we've been.
Is it four years now that wehave been working with your
child, lindsay?
Since kindergarten,kindergarten, first, second.
Yeah, so this is our fourthyear getting the privilege of
working with Miss Daisy, and sothere's been a lot of growth and
(02:57):
a lot of learning, and I haveto say that I think Daisy's
probably the first and onlystudent that I know that has
this, the rare disease that shehas, and I'm going to let you go
ahead and let us know.
Like, what is it that?
What is it that Daisy has beendiagnosed with?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So Daisy is the first person I've ever known or do
know or met with a tuberoussclerosis complex, and that can
be the only time we have to saythat we can just call it TS or
TSC.
And that is a rare geneticdisorder that causes benign
(03:39):
tumors to grow in pretty muchall her major organisms and on
the outside of her skin, hereyes, her heart, her brain, her
kidneys and just on the femaleside, when they hit puberty in
their lungs.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
In their lungs, mm-hmm, oh, that sounds—.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And I'm not sure why just the ladies get to enjoy
that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, that's like I did not expect you to end up on
the lungs Right it's like yeah,that's pretty crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And it's once they hit puberty.
So when I heard that, I stoppedlearning more about that
because we had enough in frontof us to learn about.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So, one step at a time.
Because was that?
How old was it?
Was it something that she wasborn with or did it develop?
Speaker 3 (04:39):
She was born with it and how she got diagnosed is at
three months old she startedhaving infantile spasms and we
took her to Wolfson's and shehad one white patch on her leg
and that is how they made theconnection from infantile spasms
(05:01):
and TS, because with tuberoussclerosis they get several skin
conditions and one of them iswhite patches.
The other ones are, you know,the freckle looking ones on her
face and like the other one islike raised, raised, almost like
(05:24):
an orange-feeling type patch,and she got all three of them
and so that's how they connectedthrough many other tests that
they did while we were inWolfson's, and that was the
first time I've ever heard ofthat.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And so when you first heard about that, so what you
know, what was your, you knowthe experience of learning about
that, I know, I'm sure it wasconfusing and it was
overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I had no idea what it was.
I didn't know what that meantfor the future.
What it meant for right now.
Future, what it meant for rightnow.
And the doctor told James and Inot to go and get on Google
because that will they'll freakus out.
James didn't.
I did Right.
(06:16):
I think that's kind of typical,yeah that works.
I wanted to be prepared, Iwanted to know what to expect,
but because, like autism,tuberous sclerosis is a spectrum
, people can have it and youdon't know that they have it.
And they can go their wholelives without even being
diagnosed because they don'tknow that they have it.
(06:37):
But, in true Daisy fashion, itwas very clear.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
She's like, hey, y'all, it was very clear.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
She's like hey, y'all , she lets you know, right?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yes, and so what were some of the key challenges
during that time?
For us it was just the seizures, Because she was three months
old and it started with theinfantile spasm, so that was the
scariest thing, of course.
And then knowing we weren'tsure if she was going to be able
(07:11):
to sit up by herself ever or ifshe needed assistance to walk
or be able to feed herself.
But she was able to get on withearly development and we had
somebody come to our house andhelp her with OT and it took her
(07:32):
longer to learn to walk, but assoon as she did she was running
.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Very good.
So that early intervention,that's what we keep hearing over
and over again.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yes, early intervention.
So important, so so important.
We got in like as soon as herdiagnosis.
We have somebody coming out thenext week.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Very good, were there things that they told you that
she wouldn't be able to do?
That she's doing now.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
They said you don't know, she could be in a
wheelchair, she could never talk, her delays could keep her at a
three-year-old indefinitely.
It's just, you never know whatyou're going to get.
(08:23):
You don't know what theoutcome's going to be, just you
never know what you're going toget.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
You don't know what the outcome is going to be, and
so what are some of theconditions?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
that go along with her TS.
So with that, like I spokeabout the skin issues and the
tubers that grow the seizures,so she's also diagnosed with
epilepsy and hers are calledabsent seizures or vocal
seizures, where she just kind oflooks frozen.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
And if you don't know how to spot it.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
You don't even know that she's having one.
That is true.
She's never had a major seizure,thank God.
I would never want to see thatand my heart goes out to any
parent that has to see theirchild go through that kind of
seizure.
But still the same.
She could have these seizuresback to back to back to back to
back multiple times a day andthey make her tired, they make
(09:24):
her aggravated and they cancause delays.
And then another thing thatcomes is so they call it TAND
T-A-N-D, which is a behavioralumbrella just for children with
(09:45):
tuberous sclerosis, because ofthe aggressiveness that can come
with the diagnosis sudden rage,hyper fixation, obsessing
self-harm, which Daisy has had.
Every single thing that theylist with TS she has encountered
(10:08):
and come across and has toconquer each day.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And how does that affect your life on a daily
basis and your family's dynamic?
How does that impact you?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
It's very challenging , it's very, very difficult, but
I can say for the whole familythat it gets better.
Yeah, we're doing better, she'sdoing better.
She has many specialists thatshe sees and we finally got her
in with a behavioral specialistthat has given her medicines
(10:50):
that seem to be night and dayfor her with her attitude, and
y'all know like she's not apatient person and that's one
thing that really upsets her iswhen she has to wait and that
can cause her to self-harmherself and get upset.
And immediately after thebehavioral therapist put her on
(11:15):
a medic, a medicine, I feel likewe all saw a big change in her
aggressiveness.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, I got the look, it's like let's wait and see
where you wanted to go.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But it's just now, even though it's hard and
challenging, it's just nowfeeling like it's getting easier
.
As a family In the beginning afamily In the beginning we felt
like we had to live in a bubble,and COVID happened right when
we got her autism diagnosis andright when we started seeing
(11:53):
those behavioral issues.
So it was much easier just tolive in a bubble.
And don't do that.
Don't live in a bubble.
Go out into the world early,because you will wish that you
did.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I know that's a conversation we've had with each
other.
I know we've had it with youand James as well, and we try to
talk about it and say, yes, dothe hard work now, because they
get bigger.
It's so much harder.
Bigger, they get bigger, theyget stronger and it's it is,
it's they're easier to um, solike manipulate not no well, I
(12:36):
mean physically manipulate.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
When they're smaller, you can right yeah but get them
.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Get them used to doing things and get into a.
You know, this is what we dohere and this is what we do
there.
When they're smaller, you can,right, but get them used to
doing things and get into.
You know, this is what we dohere and this is what we do
there.
When they're younger thantrying to take them out and I
think I've shared before aboutmy experience taking Xander to
Publix and him just sitting downon the floor and I think he was
about Daisy's age and he's upI'm not going anywhere because I
wouldn't give him whatever itwas that he wanted at that time
(13:03):
and he plopped his little rearend down on that floor in Publix
and screamed and of course, Iwanted to go.
No, I'm never taking him to thestore again.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
That's what I did.
That is what I did, and that isa mistake.
That is a big, big mistake, andI still don't take her to
stores.
Yeah it's hard.
I tried, I have tried, but Ican see, because of me not doing
that, how much harder I made iton the both of us.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, I think that would be, that would be a needs.
They kind of need.
They kind of need.
Some feel like they need somepermission to fail at times and
to do things that, to try thehard things, and and it all fall
apart.
And that's OK, because that'sthat's how we progress, that's
how we progress as human beings,that's how we progress in our
(14:02):
relationships, that's how weprogress as human beings, that's
how we progress in ourrelationships, that's how we
progress as families.
And so it is important to takethose shots and to fail and to
try again and to get back up,because nothing's going to go
right the first time.
It just doesn't work.
Life doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Right, and it's much better to do that and to feel
embarrassed and to feel ashamedwhich nobody should than to feel
isolated your whole life.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And so what it does, is it and I'm just kind of
listening to you talk about thisis that it gives you this.
I mean it helps you as a parentto grow as far as your strength
and your willingness to—we canalways say that we don't care
what people think, but we'llbattle that right.
We battle.
Nobody wants to go somewhereand have people thinking certain
(14:52):
ways of them, but you know,when putting yourself in those
situations becomes the norm,you're going to grow as a person
.
You're going to grow as aparent becomes the norm.
You're going to grow as aperson.
You're going to grow as aparent, and then your child gets
the best you that you can givethem, and so that, yeah, I mean
that's like top tier, necessarywork, but it's hard and it's
(15:15):
hard to do it by yourself.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
They get a better shot at being out in the world
too.
I think that's it's hard yeah.
It's really really really,really hard.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, like Jared's, shared some of his experiences
where he's been at familyfunctions and like okay, I got
to go now.
Us too.
I can't do this now, but then,like you said, you just keep
trying and the more you do it,the more they get used to it and
understand okay, this is what Ido here, and that's one of the
(15:48):
things we notice about Xander ishe knows what is expected in
his environments and hewill—that's one of the ways we
realized that that little boogercould sit still for longer than
three seconds is that we wentto a school assembly and there
he was sitting on the floor withhis classmates where, anywhere
else we go, he's running allaround said, okay, yep, we got
(16:11):
you we got your number we'lldefinitely get a whole different
version of our children thanthe parents agreeded and we're
on both sides of that becausewe've had conversations and you
know we've had the shoe, the funshoe issues and you know
different new things and a lotof times they will, our kids
(16:34):
will do things for theirteachers that they won't do,
won't do for us, and yeah, likewhat y'all can get out of her is
amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Not mom.
Mom cannot get a fraction ofwhat y'all can get from her.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Well, but mom's going to love her no matter what she
does.
That's right.
I hope she knows that about usas well, but she definitely
knows that about mom, yeah well,she raised me Right.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Funny how that happens.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
So you've talked a little bit about the medical
support and educational support.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
What about support out in the community?
So nobody knew what tuberoussclerosis was and I didn't know
anybody with autism or thatwanted to let me know that they
had it or that their child hadit.
I didn't know anything aboutautism besides what I saw on tv,
which is more of the Asperger'sor high functioning.
(17:43):
They talk but they're just alittle quirky or different.
So that's all I knew aboutautism.
That's not what I got.
I got a different kind ofautism.
So it's like we all had tolearn together my family.
So it's like we all had tolearn together my family,
(18:08):
james's family.
But we are lucky that we bothhave families that wanted to be
in Daisy's world and wanted tolearn how to function with her,
what her boundaries are and thatboundaries are important and
that their feelings don't gethurt when I say we can't come
last minute or I know we justgot here two seconds ago, but we
have to go and no, it's notthat she doesn't like you.
(18:31):
So I didn't have any localsupport.
I had support through theinternet.
I found like mom groups andthere's a TS Alliance.
(18:54):
So that's how I reallyconnected with her condition to
learn about that and I knewbecause of her condition that
it's the strong likelihood it'slike somewhere between 70 and
80% that the child will haveautism as well.
So I knew it was coming.
(19:14):
I don't think dad knew, but Iknew it was coming and I knew
around before she was even twoand so she was diagnosed at
three.
Oh no, maybe a little bitbefore three because of her
condition.
But we do have a special needscommunity in town, but it's
(19:35):
geared more towards after schooland when they're adults, but
there was nothing for young kidsor before school or during
school.
No community like that.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So what have you done to help bridge that gap?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So I created a Facebook group for caregivers,
for local caregivers, forchildren on the spectrum,
because I had so many moms andpeople private message me.
Are there any groups locally?
Are there anything here in town?
(20:18):
My child was just diagnosed, orI think my child does have, but
they're not comfortable withbeing public about it or they
don't know where to go to.
So I created this group, hopingthat they don't have to feel
alone and that they can feelseen and validated and know that
(20:42):
it's not just them goingthrough this.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I know it makes a huge difference in anything that
you're going through in lifethat's difficult to have an
understanding that there arepeople that at the very least
can understand what it is thatyou're sharing.
They may not have to or theymay not be able to understand
(21:06):
every aspect of it, but ifthere's something that you can
connect with or somebody canconnect with you that allows to
kind of lift that that burdenjust a little bit, it makes all
the difference in the world.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
yes, it does and I don't know why nobody is talking
about the no sleep thing withchildren with autism, how they
just don't sleep and it's, it'sreal.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, so xander used to.
He would.
He would stay up until like 2o'clock in the morning and he'd
wake back up at 5 when he wasyounger.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Very, very, very little rest.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Well, he would go to bed, but we would hear him in
there.
We were fortunate that when hewent to his room to go to bed he
did stay in there, but we wouldhear him in there giggling and
laughing and humming and talkingto himself, and but then, even
on the weekend, that if hewanted to stay up, he would
(22:07):
still wake up at the same timethat he got up for school.
Now, now that he's a teenager,oh, yeah, that's not an issue
anymore.
So 10, 11 o'clock.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Once again it does get better.
Fingers crossed, and she isdoing so much better.
This year of life is the firstyear where I could leave her in
her room and walk away.
The very first year, so she'llbe nine on the 15th.
The very first year, so she'llbe nine on the 15th.
(22:41):
So eight plus years is how manyyears I have been right by her.
So of course it's going to bedifficult putting those
boundaries down, but this year,after some advice from you, and,
by the way, that you wasdirected to Laura because I
don't do that well.
As Daisy likes to call her,Curtis.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Curtis With her voice , with that gruff voice.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
She likes to do her voices.
So, outside help, outsideadvice, I would have never even
have tried, because I would havejust thought this is how it has
to be.
I have to be right by her.
She obviously needs me.
I can't just leave.
If I leave her alone, somethingbad can happen.
(23:30):
No, that's how she raised me.
That's how she manipulated me.
We can be apart and now thatshe'll get up in the middle of
the night and sometimes she'lljust go grab her tablet and not
wake anybody up and what ablessing.
Right, yeah, year eight hasbeen much better than year seven
(23:56):
or six or five.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Those were particularly really rough years,
you've already shared somethings.
Is there one thing that if youwant somebody to walk away
whenever it is I'm going to saythis evening, but they might not
(24:19):
be listening this evening butone thing that you would want
them to walk away with?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
I would say don't be afraid or ashamed to share you
and your child's story and toask for help or say, hey, is
anybody else's kid doing this oris anybody else having trouble
here?
Because you are going to findso many more people going
through the same thing that youknow, and then you could get
(24:46):
advice that changes yourlifestyle.
That really, really helps isjust don't be afraid, don't be
ashamed.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
There is no reason to be ashamed.
And so if you had one hope orwish for the community that you
have started, what would youlike to see it blossom into?
Like perfect scenario.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I would love for people to engage more and be
more active and it would begreat if we could start planning
something with the kids andbecause we all know we can plan
something and it's not going togo that way and that's okay and
that's expected from ourchildren, and we can get our
(25:35):
kids together and you're goingto have to keep running after
yours and this one's going toprobably be hitting himself or
hitting something else.
There's going to be lots ofdistractions and not in
quotation marks typical behavior, and that is a safe place
because nobody will be typicalhere absolutely, you got, you
(26:00):
got, mr curtis thinking overhere, mr curtis.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I'm calling mr curtis jared.
Yeah, that's okay.
You can call me whatever youwant, curtie, but no, I was just
thinking about the.
Uh, just that.
We've been talking about theimpact of being able to be real
with people being able to walkthrough life.
The worst things that we carrywith us are the ones that we try
(26:26):
to hide or the things that wetry to push to the back.
And again like you were talkingabout earlier.
Um, early on it is easy to tohide, it is easy to kind of just
disconnect from everybody anddeal with your own little issue.
But one of the things thatcomes with that is this, this uh
(26:48):
, horrible feeling of of beingalone and having no idea what to
do.
So, if we can go ahead and dropthe walls because I know
something else that we run intoan awful lot is that parents
almost feel like they have to bethe authority on all things
(27:10):
that their child is dealing with.
Right, like, okay, so we have ason with autism, so we have to
know how to answer everyquestion about autism.
We have to know all the answers.
When somebody asks me about it,I have to be the authority.
I have to know what I'm talkingabout.
And the truth is this we'restill learning every day.
I mean, we're raising a boywith autism.
(27:33):
We've even taken courses on itit right, we're still trying to
figure it out, um, but ifbecause we're all still learning
absolutely and when we, when westop learning is when things go
bad.
So what is your?
I think you probably alreadysaid this, but I forgot.
So what is the name of thisgroup that you have on Facebook?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I should have wrote that down, so I made sure that I
said it right.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Well, I'm sure that Laura will find it if she needs
to.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
I'm pretty sure it's caregivers raising children on
the spectrum.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Ding ding, ding, you got it.
The spectrum Ding ding, ding,you got it.
I try to make it super clear.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So what's your point?
Very cool.
So we'll definitely we'll pushthat and we'll throw it on our
Facebook and whatnot, because,again, it's all about the team,
it's about people workingtogether, and when we work
together and we support eachother, that's when the best
things happen.
And it really does take avillage, it really does take a
(28:50):
tribe, for our children tobecome everything that they
possibly can be and to progressto the point that they are
living their best lives.
And at the end of the day, Ithink that's what we all really
want is we want to be able tosee our children function in
life the best that they can andget all that they can out of it,
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
And it's a messy life .
This is not a cookie-cutter,picture-perfect portrait here.
Life is messy and it's nice tobe messy with others.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Absolutely, it's always more fun right, yes, yes,
and then you don't feel Likeyou said, real.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
It's real Because you keep isolated for so long.
That's gonna come withdepression and that's gonna come
with a lot of other things.
And if you're depressed, howcan you help your child Because
of how you feel?
And then that spirals into.
(29:47):
Then you have guilt about yourfeelings and it's okay to feel
that way because it is hard andyou don't know what to do
because nobody knows what to dowhen you have a child on the
spectrum.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
We didn't get an owner's manual.
I'm guessing you probablydidn't either.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Why keep asking for one?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, and like you said, it's a spectrum too, so
what works for one child doesn'twork for another child, exactly
work for another child.
But you know, and just to sayI'm so I was so glad to see you
make that group and to step outof, because I know you were
looking for something yourself.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I was looking for one too.
I was one of the people whowere like, messaging me.
I was messaging others.
I'm like is there a group formoms with young kids on the
spectrum to where we could justvent, maybe, or get advice or
anything?
And when about the fourth orfifth person had asked me, I
(30:43):
said enough is enough, I'll justmake it myself.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yep, there you go.
Sometimes that's what we got todo.
Okay, nevermind, I'm just goingto, I'll do it myself.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
And I hope it gets more engagement.
It is a safe place.
Nobody is here to judge.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Very good.
Yeah, that sounds excellentstep in moving out and meeting
people and forging theserelationships.
What's been really cool for usis we've found a whole slew of
people that love Xander that ifwe were trying to just, you know
(31:27):
, keep them all held up in this,he wouldn't be able to
experience that.
They wouldn't get to know himand he wouldn't be able to
experience that they wouldn'tget to know him and he wouldn't
be able to know them, and soit's been great to see the
impact on his developmentbecause of the interactions that
he gets to have with peopleoutside of his own family.
So do everybody a favor.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Get your kids out there because, how is the world
supposed to learn if we keepthem isolated?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
So, with that said, I think we're going to wrap this
thing up.
We hit our 30 minutes and see,it wasn't so bad, was it no?
Speaker 3 (32:06):
I think it was all right.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
But thank you again, lindsay, for hanging out with us
, for answering some questionsand being willing to talk to us
about your super awesomedaughter.
And, by the way, I think you'reaware of this, but I just want
to make sure you know, ifnothing else ever pans out, this
girl can be a death metalsinger.
She has a beautiful voice whenshe's singing but, boy, when she
(32:32):
turns it on, it's like it'searth shaking.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yes, Found that out during Christmas carols in her
kindergarten year.
I was like oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
She's got it.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
She's a rock star.
Oh yes, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
All right, so we're going to sign off.
Thank you again for hanging outwith us, lindsay, and thank you
for people other than my momthat listen to this, because
I've been yelled at a coupletimes for saying that she's the
only one that listens.
We're going to wrap this up andwe'll see you guys next week.
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