May 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Enter the world of special education through the eyes of Jenny Jacks. Her twelve years at a small private preschool, followed by six years as a para in various public school settings, have given her unique insights into supporting diverse learners. With warmth and practical wisdom, Jenny reveals how the strategies that work best are rarely one-size-fits-all but must instead be tailored to each child's specific needs.
From simple modifications like providing lined paper for students with spatial challenges to understanding when a child just needs space to process emotions, Jenny shares the approaches that have helped her students thrive. Her practical wisdom resonates whether you're working with identified students with IEPs or children who simply need extra support to succeed.
What stands out most is Jenny's philosophy on building trust through consistency and approaching challenges with a servant's heart. "If it's not disruptive or destructive, does it need to be addressed in the moment?" she asks, challenging listeners to consider whether immediate intervention is always necessary. This question alone transforms how we might respond to students experiencing emotional dysregulation.
Jenny's collaborative approach with classroom teachers demonstrates how paraprofessionals can be most effective by maintaining open communication, asking for feedback, and putting the student's needs at the center of every decision. Her willingness to reach out to occupational therapists, former teachers, and specialists shows her commitment to finding solutions that work.
The conversation culminates with a powerful message about purpose in education: "If you're not there to help students succeed, why are you there?" It reminds us that behind every effective intervention is genuine care for students' well-being and future success.
Whether you're a teacher, paraprofessional, parent, or administrator, this episode offers valuable insights into supporting students with diverse needs through patience, individualized strategies, and what Jenny beautifully describes as teaching with a servant's heart. Listen and discover how "regulation before expectation" can transform your approach to supporting all learners.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
so here we go, right.
We just finished, not tooterribly long ago, number 20 in
our in our podcast, life journey.
Yeah, I'll call it a journey.
So what we're gonna do is we'regoing to continue with the
(00:25):
having great guests and talkingabout different things, and so
we have yet another guest withus this evening who has spent
some time, has spent actually aconsiderable amount of time in
the education field, and we havehad the opportunity to work
(00:47):
with her side by side one yearright, it was one year to one, I
think it was one year and we'vehad a great time getting to
know our guest for this episode.
So, laura, yes, would you liketo go ahead and introduce her?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Sure, so we're going to start sounding like, oh,
everybody's their friend, but Istill feel we are fortunate to
have all these people that wework with and that we forge
these relationships with, andespecially having a common bond
with the drawing towards thechildren with disabilities that
(01:25):
need a little bit of extra help.
And so our guest this episodeis Miss Jenny.
Jax and Jenny, like Jared said,you've had multiple different
settings, that you've workedwith students, but you've worked
with students, and I'm sureyou've worked with students that
(01:45):
have been also unidentified,not just identified.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
They didn't have names.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
No, sorry Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
In the process kids.
Right but will you just give usa little bit of your background.
As far as working with childrenof all abilities, yeah, so I
worked at Bright BeginningsMorning School for about 12
years, so at a little privatepreschool.
(02:20):
But you know, even then, likethere were some kids that came
through that you just kind ofyou know, you know you could,
you just knew they're likethere's something that they're
going to need a little extrahelp, or they need you to sit
with them a little more than theothers, or they need a lot of
redirecting, or, you know, maybethey get a lot upset more than
others.
So, even though you know itwasn't like in the public school
(02:41):
setting, it's still you're ableto sometimes, kind of you know,
identify the kids that maybeneed a little extra, you know, a
little extra one-on-one help,even young, you know.
I mean you can see thingsmoving forward.
And then I've been blessed towork at Matilda Harris for six
years, started out as akindergarten para for two years
(03:04):
and then they moved me to beingan instructional para, then to a
pre-K special education para,back to an instructional para.
So I've got to go and work withall ages Because even then,
like with the instructionalparas, it was like this year
it's second, third, fourth,fifth, fourth, fifth so I've
(03:25):
kind of and then the first yearI did instructional para.
I worked for second, third, soI've kind of really got to work
all ages, all grade levels, umthroughout the school, so so
I've loved it so did you chooseto do go into the special
education um settings that theyare, were you approached to do?
(03:49):
it, or initially they thekindergarten class I was in.
They got rid of a class so theyno longer needed a kindergarten
para, so they kind of I thinkthey made a spot as an
instructional para, helping outwith small group things with a
couple of the teachers, andwhich I actually loved Like I
(04:10):
love doing the small groups withthem and doing things like that
.
And then the next year theyasked if I would be a special
education pre-K para, and so itwasn't something that, like I
was ever not happy to do but Ididn't.
That was not initially what Iwas ever hired to do, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And so I know that, like you said, that you'd had
some experience with the at thepre-K level, and I can't
remember how this went.
Was Miss Robin one of yourparas, or did you work?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
with her.
She was Miss Robin was becauseI was with Shawna Lewis.
She was pregnant and she wasgoing to come back.
As most moms say, I'm going tocome back after the baby's born
and then you have your sweetbabies and you're like I can't
do it.
So Miss Robin was so wonderfulto kind of step in and come and
(05:08):
help me and she's just amazing.
She's such an amazing personand I love being able to work
with her and get to know her.
So she did.
She stepped in.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Try having her as your mom.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It is, it's incredibly awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I'm not seeing any downside.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Nope, nope, not in there a bit, because I know that
she talked about, you know, thebright beginnings and about
seeing, being able to see thesome of the kids that need a
little bit extra help.
And as we, as most people, knowthat a private school tends to
have smaller numbers of students, did you find that more
beneficial, say, for helping toidentify some of these children
(05:57):
in that setting than in a publicgeneral kindergarten class?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
uh, public general, um, kindergarten class I don't
know if it, I don't know if Inoticed that it was easier.
I feel like sometimes somethings jump out as, oh, this
doesn't seem like a typical waya five-year-old is is doing
(06:21):
things, or this doesn't seemtypical for, you know, a
kindergartner or mostkindergartners can do this at
this stage, you know.
So I feel like some things jumpout quickly, but then there are
some things that when you're ina small setting you can notice
things that maybe just could getlost in the mix If it was one
of those things that's not kindof an in your face obvious thing
(06:43):
, Like I know for a lot ofpeople, just like even things
like inattentive things.
With ADHD, some things arewritten off as oh, they're young
or oh, they're this, or, youknow, I mean some things or
sometimes the quiet, reallysubmissive kids that are calm
and mellow.
They're easy to kind ofoverlook because they're not the
(07:03):
ones, you know, I don't want tosay causing problems, because
that's not.
They're not causing problems,but they're not.
They're not the ones that arechallenging you or that you're
constantly having to like calltheir names out, and sometimes
those quiet, calm kids that arestruggling fall through the
cracks because they're notdrawing the attention.
So I do feel like in a smallsetting like that, even the
(07:24):
small one's got the exact amountof attention that the maybe
more energetic ones did, becauseyou had eight of them.
It's a lot easier to give eightchildren at least some amount
of undivided attentionthroughout the day than it is 28
children, you know I mean so.
I do think, depending on whatyou're looking for, yes, it is
(07:44):
easier in a small setting formaybe some of those not so
obvious things to kind of showup.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right, the students that, like you said, they're not
drawing the most attention tothemselves, kind of
inadvertently, kind of slip offto the side and then fast
forward a handful of months.
You're like, oh, my goodness,like, oh, we should have been
working on this, you know,months ago, and but because
they're not, yeah, Lighting theroom on fire or anything.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Hey, hey, look at me, yeah, lighting the room on fire
or anything.
Hey, hey, look at me, well, asum, within these experiences
with the larger um groups and Iknow you say you work with a
small group, setting um or smallgroups now, but in, you know,
working with the students, youhave been in larger groups, so
what are?
(08:43):
And in these larger groups youhave, you know, an array of
needs and so what are some ofthe strategies that you have
seen beneficial to help thosestudents that have these diverse
learning needs?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Um, I think you know it's.
It's so like not not weird but,it's so strange because you
really have to have like such awide array of things.
You do because what one studentneeds the other student could
care less about.
You know, because we have somestudents like something as small
as, like I read, you read,because the students have no
(09:24):
motivation to read or they don'tfeel confident.
So it's like, well, I'll read apage, you read a page, and that
then they're happy to do it.
You know, some students it'sthe first, then type motivations
because they really want to dosomething fun, and it's kind of
like well, first you have to doyour assignment, then we can do
this, and you kind of motivatethem that way.
Or I know some students it'shard for them to copy from the
(09:47):
board, just because that itdoesn't seem like a big deal.
But having to look up and down,especially if they can't spell
well, you know, I mean lookingup and down takes so much time
and even motor skills to be likeup down right.
And it's like when the studentsare writing.
You know, because I am in a youknow, a gen ed class at the
(10:10):
moment with these students, sothey're having to keep up with
the, you know, so they're havingto keep up the students I'm
working with, with everyone else.
So it's like some students I'llget a whiteboard and I write
what's on the board and I justput it in front of them and then
they don't have to look up anddown, they can just look side to
side or you know, wherever Iput the whiteboard and some
(10:32):
students it goes faster,honestly, if I spell it out like
while they're writing.
I'll be like if we're spellinglike, honestly, today I think
one of the words was likemolecule and I was like M O, l
and it was just filling theblanks, but but even like having
to stop and look to write everyletter, it just means me saying
it.
They knew their alphabet, theyknow their letters, so they were
(10:54):
able, they were able to writeat a a more even pace with the
class if I was there tellingthem what to do.
So and then even as small assome notes don't have lines, and
I think a lot of teachers likeI don't know if it, like I don't
think it occurs to them I thinka lot of the kids have spatial
issues.
Writing is really large or theywrite sideways or whatnot, and
(11:18):
buying ledger liners and drawinglines for the students on their
papers so that where there'snot lines, I have one I carry in
my bag and I'll make lines onthe paper, so then it's easier
for them to be able to write andnot use up more space than
needed or, you know, kind ofdrift off.
So it's really just.
You know, it's very.
(11:40):
It really just varies almoststudent by student what works
with them and what differentthings I try to entail.
I mean we even have one studentthat he cannot not tap, roll a
pencil, uh, picket somethingsnaps.
I mean he is constantly movinghis hand.
So if it's in a moment wherethe teacher's talking or reading
(12:01):
or we have to sit quietly, heplays with, with Plato and like
and he is content as long as andhe is quiet and still and not
distracting, and he just sits athis table and quietly does that
.
And I mean that's.
You know the teacher was coolwith him doing that and I.
But that was I mean a quick fix, as soon as we gave him that no
(12:23):
more disruptions, no morenoises, no more distractions.
And you know so, as soon as wegave him that no more
disruptions, no more noises, nomore distractions.
And you know so it really justdepends on the student.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
But there's a huge, I feel like, array of things that
I do depending on the classroomand the kid I'm with.
I'm sure that having, like yousaid, the teacher was OK with
that.
So you know when you're doingthese things and thinking of
these strategies and workingwith the student and you have to
collaborate with the teachers,and if there's other paras or
there's other support personnelin the classroom, how do you,
how do you manage that Likeworking with the student and
(12:59):
collaborating with the teacherand other people?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I always feel like, you know, I don't know
everything and I think sometimes, going into a classroom, I
normally it's like at thebeginning of the year.
If I go into a classroom, ifit's a teacher I don't know, I
normally introduce myself.
You know I ask them what it isthat they need me to do, how I'm
going to be most helpful.
You know, like some teacherswant me to pull kids at the back
(13:24):
table and work more one-on-one.
Some teachers want me to justredirect.
You know I'm obviouslydepending on the needs of the
students, but I feel like we'rea team and when I'm in there
it's my job to make their jobeasier by meeting the students',
needs.
And you know if there'ssomething I'm not doing and I
(13:44):
tell them I'm like I go intoeach teacher's classroom like
you are not going to offend me,like I'm it is so you will have
to work to bother me.
Like if I'm doing something andit's not helpful, please tell
me, cause otherwise I'm justwasting our time.
(14:04):
And if there's something I needto do differently, please tell
me, because my whole point of myjob is to help.
It is to help the student,which therefore helps the
teacher.
So if, if I'm not doing that Ineed her to tell me.
And so I kind of tell teachersfrom the get go.
Like please tell me, like Iwon't be upset, this is my job,
like.
So I think you know I lean onthe teachers and not just the
(14:27):
teacher in the classroom.
Like you said, I've come toy'all and asked you questions
about students if I wasn't sure.
I've gone to other teachers inthe school if I know they taught
them the year before or haveworked with them in the past.
Or I've even messaged Taylor,the OT, and asked her questions.
If she she had suggestions onif I had a student that seemed
to be doing something, would shehave a suggestion on how to
(14:49):
help with this?
And so I feel like you know itreally is, we need each other.
So, and I've never had a teachernot help me, like I've never
asked and had a teacher not giveme ideas or suggestions or blow
me off and honestly, if I did,I would just go to another
teacher.
So but yeah, I mean I think youknow we're, we're a team.
(15:12):
So I feel like I feel like youknow you have to talk to your
teachers and you have to askquestions, like I'm.
I know my personality mightjust help along with this role,
but I'm not afraid to speak topeople or ask questions, or you
know, if I feel like I ask and Idon't get the answer, I will be
(15:32):
the first one to say I'm sorry.
I need you to like explain thata little bit more in depth,
because I don't understand andyou know, I'm going to make sure
that I know what I'm supposedto be doing.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
And that's fantastic, because I know that a lot of
times it's hard to communicatethroughout our day, and so I
think making that time to talkwith the teachers and to make
sure that you understand whatthey want I'm sure is
appreciated, Because I know thatsometimes you know that we'll
(16:04):
have conversations and ifsomebody doesn't quite
understand but they don't wantto say they don't understand,
then it doesn't help anybody.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, as long as they're not Go ahead.
I say.
One of the things that we saypretty often is you don't have
to worry about stepping on ourtoes, we leave them at home.
We are toeless in the building.
Leave them at home, we aretoeless in the building.
Say whatever it is you need tosay, because at the end of the
(16:33):
day, like you said, the wholepurpose of us being there us,
the entire team is to help thesestudents be as successful as
they possibly can be, and so wehave to be able to have
conversations that aren'tnecessarily fun, and we have to
be honest, and we have to beable to have conversations that
aren't necessarily fun.
And we have to be honest and wehave to be willing to answer
those questions, because if wedon't, then there is no progress
.
(16:56):
Right, I think that then ifwe're not doing what the teacher
wants, and then they're gettingfrustrated with us, and then
they're getting frustrated withthe student and it just ends up
(17:16):
being a big, I think, failurefor all of them.
Well, I know too.
Going back to you, know whatstrategies do you use?
And I know, oftentimes, whenpeople ask me, if they say, well
, you know, I have this studentor I have this child or whatever
, and this is what they do, whatcan we do to help them?
I do the same thing.
I'm like well, I don't.
If I don't know the kid, it'shard for me to give you any
direction, because there is noone size fits all.
There is no.
You know, if I use thisstrategy, then all of a sudden
(17:40):
everything gets easy and thekid's behavior is great and
they're making straight A's, andit doesn't work that way.
So we really do have to bepatient and calm and learn the
kid, and it's not going to bethe same for every kid.
It may not be the same for anyof the kids in the classroom,
but we have to stay flexiblewell, what works for one or what
(18:05):
not even that works for one,doesn't work for the other.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Some sometimes is what works one day doesn't work
the next day.
Yes, you think you're like,okay, I got it figured out, and
then you come back the next day.
They're like no, I don't wantthat.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yes, yes, that's all they like to keep us on our toes
, that is for sure absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Uh.
So when you're in the classroomwith the students and the
general education teacher andchallenging behaviors arise, if
what is the?
I guess not picking order, butkind of the, the order of that.
Like, if there are studentsthat you're working with, do you
try to deescalate that or doesthe teacher try it first?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Normally, if it's like a minor type of behavior, I
definitely am, I would say, thefirst to intercede.
Only because normally theteacher is, I mean, is teaching,
you know they're worrying aboutall the other students in the
classroom and if I'm working ina small group or one-on-one then
it's not that like that's.
(19:12):
You know my responsibility,necessarily, but it would just
makes more sense that she wouldnot stop what she's doing to
come intervene when I'm rightthere and I'm already with that
student, especially because morethan likely she may not even
know why the student's upsetbecause she's not over there
with him.
So so I usually am the firstlike to try to handle it if it's
(19:38):
something that I cannot handle.
Or because there are some daysI go in classrooms and the
student is already mad, alreadyfrustrated, came in the class
that way that day, came backfrom resource that way, came
back from recess that way, and Ihave no idea what's going on.
And I'm a big supporter of just.
(20:02):
Life has taught me a lot oftimes.
When kids are upset, that's nota moment you can rationalize
with them.
They're not in a mindset tolisten, they're not probably
going to be receptive toanything you say, so it kind of
depends on just the timing of it.
(20:22):
But if I'm working with astudent and they're getting
frustrated, I try to intervenebefore it becomes an issue that
the teacher has to.
So sometimes the teacher has tostep in and but but I try to, I
try to head it off before iteven gets to that point, if I
can.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Are there any specific strategies that you
find and as I know they all are?
I know they're all different.
I'm asking the question, butpeople ask.
But are there strategies thatyou find and as I know they all
are?
I know they're all different.
I'm asking the question, butJared just said well, people ask
, but you know, are therestrategies that seem to work,
more often than not, with yourstudents?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You know, I think you know basically kind of
piggybacking on what Jared saida minute ago, was it really?
Just depends on the studentthat I'm working with, because
some students, you know, whenthey're frustrated they need a
distraction, they need somethingto take them from whatever's
making them mad and refocus onsomething different.
(21:18):
So sometimes I'll try to, youknow, give them a different
option.
If we're struggling with a mathpage, I might be like, hey, why
don't we go finish this and wecan come back and do this later.
And sometimes it's something assmall as that.
Other times, you know, it mightbe something just sitting with
them till they're calm, and Iknow that's such like I feel
(21:39):
like there's time is just notyour friend when you're in
school, because there's alwayssomething to do or somewhere to
be or somewhere to go, and butsometimes some of those kids
they just need some moments todecompress.
I have one student that you knowyou could not talk to him when
(22:00):
he was upset.
And if you tried, even if itwas saying things like it's okay
, you're not in trouble, I'm notupset, even if it was saying
things like it's okay, you'renot in trouble, I'm not upset,
even if you were saying positivethings.
The more you spoke, the moreescalated they became, because
they were just so already intheir feels.
I guess that they just couldn'tget away from that.
(22:21):
But if you gave them a minuteor two, you know, and you didn't
say anything or bring anyattention, they were cool.
And then you could do like a.
Can you tell me why you wereupset?
Can you tell me what we couldhave done different next time?
How could we handle thatdifferently?
And then you can have all thediscussions.
You know the teaching moments,but not when they're mad, you
(22:42):
know, but not when they're, butnot when they're mad, you know.
So I think the mainde-escalating for me is just
(23:03):
staying calm, not feeding intoit, you know, not adding fuel to
the fire, or you know, I guess,just aside from distractions,
maybe trying to talk to them andthen just giving them time to
process and then be, maybe evensome things.
Also, some kids, you know theylike to go for walks, they need
to leave the classroom, they'refrustrated and they need to get
out, even if it's just go get adrink of water and walk right
back, or you know, whatever thecase may be.
But so those are probablyreally the main things that I
(23:28):
would do.
You know, and I always kind ofhave this thought in my head of
if it's not disruptive ordestructive, does it need really
to be addressed in the moment?
You know, if a kid's upset andthey're back they're mumbling
underneath their breath butthey're not yelling at the
teacher.
To me I'm kind of like no, it'snot.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I mean, you can mumble.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, and when you're done mumbling and you seem like
you're over it, I'm going to.
We'll talk about why you'reupset, you know, but in the
moment some things don't need tobe addressed.
Right, then you know somethings.
Like I said, if it's notdisruptive or destructive, I can
let it go.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Well then, you're taking the chance of it becoming
more if you bring thatattention to it.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh yes, I think a popular perspective that we have
to fight on the regular and Ijust I mean, I think it's one of
those perspectives that justkind of come along naturally is
when we see a student or a childand they're exhibiting behavior
that we don't necessarily like.
(24:31):
I mean, it may not even beappropriate at the time, but
we're so quick to try to punisha child for that behavior
without taking the time tofigure out why and the why, can
be something as simple as theydon't want to do it, but they're
trying to figure out how toexpress that.
(24:52):
And so if we spend all of ourtime just trying to suppress
their expression, versus workwith them through it to find
better ways to deal with it,well, all we're doing is we're
adding to the anxiety, we'readding to the frustration and,
like you said, you and Lauraboth said, the chance of you
spinning them up even worse is ahigh probability, and then we
(25:15):
want to punish that.
So it's like, if we can learnto listen, if we can learn to
really and I love what you saidif we can just be there and let
them work through it to makesure they stay safe, make sure
nobody's getting hurt.
I think that that's just.
That's huge in the life of astudent who, like I said, hasn't
(25:37):
quite learned how to processand express what's going on
inside of them.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And a lot of times, depending on who the student is.
And, like you said, I do thinkthere's such a huge advantage to
having a relationship with thestudents, so you know them, so
you can because there are somestudents, when they're upset, I
will say do you want to talkabout what's wrong?
And some of them be like no,and I'm like, OK, well, if you
do, I'll be right here and Ieven just kind of walk away and
(26:04):
go sit at a different table andI give them a few minutes, and I
even just kind of walk away andgo sit at a different table and
I give them a few minutes, andyou can kind of see, like when
the switch flips a little bitand they're not so frustrated
and they don't look so irritated, and I'll go back.
And sometimes then I'm like areyou ready to talk now?
And they're like yes, and thenthey tell me and you know, and
(26:24):
then we can work through it.
But I'm definitely not a pusher.
Not a pusher.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I I definitely am more like okay, we can go at
your, at your pace, you know, atleast until we can't, you know,
and then, and then we'll, we'llchoose a different path, but
but yeah, in the grand scheme ofthings, like you were saying,
that they're so busy and thattime is not our friends at
school, because there's so muchthat they have to get done and
there's places to be and theyhave to go, go, go.
(26:50):
But really, in the grand schemeof things, if they take an
extra five minutes to gettingdown the hallway and they get
there successfully and safely,that's more important than them
getting there five minutes early, earlier, and so I think what
you're saying is great, you know, give them that time.
And so I think what you'resaying is great, you know, give
them that time.
And one of our favorite sayingsand, in fact, one of our
(27:11):
favorite t-shirts and I believeMr Curtis is actually wearing it
is regulation beforeexpectation.
You know when you're upset andthis goes for us as well as the
students when you're upset andyour mind's racing and you're
crying and you're and you'rebeing irrational, you can't
focus on somebody asking you todo something.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I had a teacher today point out my shirt and she said
she said, mr Curtis, I'm reallyfeeling that shirt deep, I see.
You know, what's funny is thatI think that people think we
wear these shirts for the kidsAbsolutely not Like.
We wear ones that say be kindright.
We wear ones that sayregulation before expectation,
because as adults, if we'rebeing honest with ourselves, we
(27:55):
know, we know these things andso why would we expect these
kids to operate differently?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I know I've said before indifferent settings, you know
like can you go up and demandthat this student do this?
Absolutely Should?
You Probably not.
Like what is your, what is thewhole end goal?
And that's kind of it's like ifthe end goal is, you know, to
get from A to B, well, ifanything you're doing in between
(28:23):
is going to hinder that, doesit have to be done Like?
I know you know just frompersonal experience with my own
kids.
You know people would say, like, can you go up and say that to
them?
Absolutely yes, you can,because you're the teacher.
However, are you going to getthe result you want when you do
it?
Probably not Like, and I getthat it is.
It's hard as the grown up andthe adult you know like that you
(28:43):
have this mindset and I getthat it is.
It's hard as the grown up andthe adult.
You know like that you havethis mindset and I do it too
Sometimes, at least I have it inmy head.
Well, I should be able to dothis.
And it's like yes, and I can doit, but it doesn't mean that
it's going to benefit anyoneonce I've done it.
So I try to you know much moreat home, but at school, you know
I'm really mindful of how, ofhow the kids are and what they
(29:06):
need from me and being verypatient and calm and I'm very
consistent, like I might be.
You know you don't have to dothis right now, but we're going
to do this later, when you'recalm, like, and then I think
most of my kids know, like MsJax is going to make me do this,
because I'm very consistent.
If I tell you I'm going to doit, I'm going to do it Like, and
(29:29):
if I say it it's going tohappen Like.
And I think kids are supersmart, you know they can figure
out real quick what they can getaway with with, who they can
get those things away with, whothey can kind of a little bit
more pushover or, you know, givea lot more.
And kids are smart, like theyknow.
They know.
So it's very important that Ithink we're very consistent and
(29:52):
calm and when we're dealing withyou know behaviors.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, I agree that.
It's that consistency and, likeyou said, saying what you mean
and mean what you say.
And because they they willfigure it out though Well, you
know I'm really not going to sitfive minutes recess They'll
forget about it by the timerecess comes.
So if they know that you'regoing to hold them to that, then
(30:19):
I think they're more likely todo what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And it does go way past the idea of just do what
I'm telling you to do.
There's a growing relationshipthat helps them to realize that
they can trust you, that theycan believe you when you say I
am here to help you be the beststudent that you can be.
Help you learn how to be thebest person you can be.
That allows them thatconsistency, allows them to
(30:48):
build trust right.
They learn to trust you throughthose consistencies.
You can bark orders all daylong, you can scream, you can
yell, but if they don't, ifthose students don't believe
that you care about what it isthat they need to accomplish, if
your goal doesn't align withwhat their goal needs to be,
they're going to know.
(31:08):
Like you said, they're smart,they're going to know and
they're not going to put a wholelot of stock in and what it is
that you have to say, and so itreally is important to go into
it with a like, with a servant'sheart, a how can I help this
child, how can I support thischild, and not how do I make
this child do what I want themto do?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
And so, hey, we're coming to the end of our time.
How quick has that been.
Isn't that fantastic?
Yes, but I do have one morequestion.
If this was the last timeanybody in the world could ever
(31:52):
hear you talk about supportingstudents in school, what would
you want your message to be?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Oh my goodness.
So just if you're not there tohelp them, why are you there?
Like I mean, if your whole goalis not to meet the needs, serve
those students, make sure thatthey are getting what they need
to be successful.
Like, why, what are you showingup for?
(32:30):
It sure can't be the paycheck,like I mean I'm like.
I mean I genuinely, genuinelycare about the students I'm with
.
I will look for things to helpthem.
I will talk to teachers.
I will ask questions, I willget support.
I want them to be successful.
I will talk to teachers, I willask questions, I will get
support.
I want them to be successful.
I want them to get what theyneed.
(32:52):
I want them to grow to be thebest versions of themselves.
I want their teachers to haveme there to support them to be
able to implement all the thingsthat they're supposed to be
getting.
You know, and I just feel likeyou know, if you're not there,
because you love those studentsand you genuinely want them to
(33:13):
get what they need to besuccessful, like, what are you
doing?
Like, why even show up?
I mean, and it's hard, and Iknow it's easy to say that
because it's a hard job and mean, and it's hard on days, you
know, and I'm in a gen edclassroom so I'm sure it's even
harder.
I remember in pre-k special edit was very hard some days, you
(33:34):
know.
But that's what my job is.
I am there for the students.
I am there to support them andto make sure that they are
getting what they need to besuccessful and to leave Matilda
Harris in a few years so muchbetter off than when they came
(33:55):
in because of not because of me,but because of what we as a
school set out to do for themand really refuse to accept
anything less.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, I think that is a great way to wrap this up.
And you know we can say this,we know that that you genuinely
do care about those kids,because we've seen you with them
and we've tried to recruit youto our team numerous times.
So, and if we're trying torecruit you, that means we see,
we see everything that you'vetalked about you, and if we're
trying to recruit you, thatmeans we see, we see everything
that you've talked about you.
(34:28):
You walk it out, it's not justwords, and so we appreciate you
Well, I'm honored to be invited.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yes, ma'am, so we're going to go ahead and wrap up
this episode.
Hey, if anybody listened tothis, you have some ideas.
As far as maybe you knowsomebody who you think could
provide some really greatconversation on one of our
episodes, or maybe you're one ofthose people that believe you
could provide a greatconversation concerning all
those that may sit at the tableof an IEP meeting, please, yeah,
(34:59):
reach out to us and let us know.
And, ms Jax, we'll see youtomorrow.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yep, I'll be there, Bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Bye.
so here we go, right.
We just finished, not tooterribly long ago, number 20 in
our in our podcast, life journey.
Yeah, I'll call it a journey.
So what we're gonna do is we'regoing to continue with the
(00:25):
having great guests and talkingabout different things, and so
we have yet another guest withus this evening who has spent
some time, has spent actually aconsiderable amount of time in
the education field, and we havehad the opportunity to work
(00:47):
with her side by side one yearright, it was one year to one, I
think it was one year and we'vehad a great time getting to
know our guest for this episode.
So, laura, yes, would you liketo go ahead and introduce her?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Sure, so we're going to start sounding like, oh,
everybody's their friend, but Istill feel we are fortunate to
have all these people that wework with and that we forge
these relationships with, andespecially having a common bond
with the drawing towards thechildren with disabilities that
(01:25):
need a little bit of extra help.
And so our guest this episodeis Miss Jenny.
Jax and Jenny, like Jared said,you've had multiple different
settings, that you've workedwith students, but you've worked
with students, and I'm sureyou've worked with students that
(01:45):
have been also unidentified,not just identified.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
They didn't have names.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
No, sorry Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
In the process kids.
Right but will you just give usa little bit of your background.
As far as working with childrenof all abilities, yeah, so I
worked at Bright BeginningsMorning School for about 12
years, so at a little privatepreschool.
(02:20):
But you know, even then, likethere were some kids that came
through that you just kind ofyou know, you know you could,
you just knew they're likethere's something that they're
going to need a little extrahelp, or they need you to sit
with them a little more than theothers, or they need a lot of
redirecting, or, you know, maybethey get a lot upset more than
others.
So, even though you know itwasn't like in the public school
(02:41):
setting, it's still you're ableto sometimes, kind of you know,
identify the kids that maybeneed a little extra, you know, a
little extra one-on-one help,even young, you know.
I mean you can see thingsmoving forward.
And then I've been blessed towork at Matilda Harris for six
years, started out as akindergarten para for two years
(03:04):
and then they moved me to beingan instructional para, then to a
pre-K special education para,back to an instructional para.
So I've got to go and work withall ages Because even then,
like with the instructionalparas, it was like this year
it's second, third, fourth,fifth, fourth, fifth so I've
(03:25):
kind of and then the first yearI did instructional para.
I worked for second, third, soI've kind of really got to work
all ages, all grade levels, umthroughout the school, so so
I've loved it so did you chooseto do go into the special
education um settings that theyare, were you approached to do?
(03:49):
it, or initially they thekindergarten class I was in.
They got rid of a class so theyno longer needed a kindergarten
para, so they kind of I thinkthey made a spot as an
instructional para, helping outwith small group things with a
couple of the teachers, andwhich I actually loved Like I
(04:10):
love doing the small groups withthem and doing things like that
.
And then the next year theyasked if I would be a special
education pre-K para, and so itwasn't something that, like I
was ever not happy to do but Ididn't.
That was not initially what Iwas ever hired to do, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And so I know that, like you said, that you'd had
some experience with the at thepre-K level, and I can't
remember how this went.
Was Miss Robin one of yourparas, or did you work?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
with her.
She was Miss Robin was becauseI was with Shawna Lewis.
She was pregnant and she wasgoing to come back.
As most moms say, I'm going tocome back after the baby's born
and then you have your sweetbabies and you're like I can't
do it.
So Miss Robin was so wonderfulto kind of step in and come and
(05:08):
help me and she's just amazing.
She's such an amazing personand I love being able to work
with her and get to know her.
So she did.
She stepped in.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Try having her as your mom.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It is, it's incredibly awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I'm not seeing any downside.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Nope, nope, not in there a bit, because I know that
she talked about, you know, thebright beginnings and about
seeing, being able to see thesome of the kids that need a
little bit extra help.
And as we, as most people, knowthat a private school tends to
have smaller numbers of students, did you find that more
beneficial, say, for helping toidentify some of these children
(05:57):
in that setting than in a publicgeneral kindergarten class?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
uh, public general, um, kindergarten class I don't
know if it, I don't know if Inoticed that it was easier.
I feel like sometimes somethings jump out as, oh, this
doesn't seem like a typical waya five-year-old is is doing
(06:21):
things, or this doesn't seemtypical for, you know, a
kindergartner or mostkindergartners can do this at
this stage, you know.
So I feel like some things jumpout quickly, but then there are
some things that when you're ina small setting you can notice
things that maybe just could getlost in the mix If it was one
of those things that's not kindof an in your face obvious thing
(06:43):
, Like I know for a lot ofpeople, just like even things
like inattentive things.
With ADHD, some things arewritten off as oh, they're young
or oh, they're this, or, youknow, I mean some things or
sometimes the quiet, reallysubmissive kids that are calm
and mellow.
They're easy to kind ofoverlook because they're not the
(07:03):
ones, you know, I don't want tosay causing problems, because
that's not.
They're not causing problems,but they're not.
They're not the ones that arechallenging you or that you're
constantly having to like calltheir names out, and sometimes
those quiet, calm kids that arestruggling fall through the
cracks because they're notdrawing the attention.
So I do feel like in a smallsetting like that, even the
(07:24):
small one's got the exact amountof attention that the maybe
more energetic ones did, becauseyou had eight of them.
It's a lot easier to give eightchildren at least some amount
of undivided attentionthroughout the day than it is 28
children, you know I mean so.
I do think, depending on whatyou're looking for, yes, it is
(07:44):
easier in a small setting formaybe some of those not so
obvious things to kind of showup.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right, the students that, like you said, they're not
drawing the most attention tothemselves, kind of
inadvertently, kind of slip offto the side and then fast
forward a handful of months.
You're like, oh, my goodness,like, oh, we should have been
working on this, you know,months ago, and but because
they're not, yeah, Lighting theroom on fire or anything.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Hey, hey, look at me, yeah, lighting the room on fire
or anything.
Hey, hey, look at me, well, asum, within these experiences
with the larger um groups and Iknow you say you work with a
small group, setting um or smallgroups now, but in, you know,
working with the students, youhave been in larger groups, so
what are?
(08:43):
And in these larger groups youhave, you know, an array of
needs and so what are some ofthe strategies that you have
seen beneficial to help thosestudents that have these diverse
learning needs?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Um, I think you know it's.
It's so like not not weird but,it's so strange because you
really have to have like such awide array of things.
You do because what one studentneeds the other student could
care less about.
You know, because we have somestudents like something as small
as, like I read, you read,because the students have no
(09:24):
motivation to read or they don'tfeel confident.
So it's like, well, I'll read apage, you read a page, and that
then they're happy to do it.
You know, some students it'sthe first, then type motivations
because they really want to dosomething fun, and it's kind of
like well, first you have to doyour assignment, then we can do
this, and you kind of motivatethem that way.
Or I know some students it'shard for them to copy from the
(09:47):
board, just because that itdoesn't seem like a big deal.
But having to look up and down,especially if they can't spell
well, you know, I mean lookingup and down takes so much time
and even motor skills to be likeup down right.
And it's like when the studentsare writing.
You know, because I am in a youknow, a gen ed class at the
(10:10):
moment with these students, sothey're having to keep up with
the, you know, so they're havingto keep up the students I'm
working with, with everyone else.
So it's like some students I'llget a whiteboard and I write
what's on the board and I justput it in front of them and then
they don't have to look up anddown, they can just look side to
side or you know, wherever Iput the whiteboard and some
(10:32):
students it goes faster,honestly, if I spell it out like
while they're writing.
I'll be like if we're spellinglike, honestly, today I think
one of the words was likemolecule and I was like M O, l
and it was just filling theblanks, but but even like having
to stop and look to write everyletter, it just means me saying
it.
They knew their alphabet, theyknow their letters, so they were
(10:54):
able, they were able to writeat a a more even pace with the
class if I was there tellingthem what to do.
So and then even as small assome notes don't have lines, and
I think a lot of teachers likeI don't know if it, like I don't
think it occurs to them I thinka lot of the kids have spatial
issues.
Writing is really large or theywrite sideways or whatnot, and
(11:18):
buying ledger liners and drawinglines for the students on their
papers so that where there'snot lines, I have one I carry in
my bag and I'll make lines onthe paper, so then it's easier
for them to be able to write andnot use up more space than
needed or, you know, kind ofdrift off.
So it's really just.
You know, it's very.
(11:40):
It really just varies almoststudent by student what works
with them and what differentthings I try to entail.
I mean we even have one studentthat he cannot not tap, roll a
pencil, uh, picket somethingsnaps.
I mean he is constantly movinghis hand.
So if it's in a moment wherethe teacher's talking or reading
(12:01):
or we have to sit quietly, heplays with, with Plato and like
and he is content as long as andhe is quiet and still and not
distracting, and he just sits athis table and quietly does that
.
And I mean that's.
You know the teacher was coolwith him doing that and I.
But that was I mean a quick fix, as soon as we gave him that no
(12:23):
more disruptions, no morenoises, no more distractions.
And you know so, as soon as wegave him that no more
disruptions, no more noises, nomore distractions.
And you know so it really justdepends on the student.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
But there's a huge, I feel like, array of things that
I do depending on the classroomand the kid I'm with.
I'm sure that having, like yousaid, the teacher was OK with
that.
So you know when you're doingthese things and thinking of
these strategies and workingwith the student and you have to
collaborate with the teachers,and if there's other paras or
there's other support personnelin the classroom, how do you,
how do you manage that Likeworking with the student and
(12:59):
collaborating with the teacherand other people?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I always feel like, you know, I don't know
everything and I think sometimes, going into a classroom, I
normally it's like at thebeginning of the year.
If I go into a classroom, ifit's a teacher I don't know, I
normally introduce myself.
You know I ask them what it isthat they need me to do, how I'm
going to be most helpful.
You know, like some teacherswant me to pull kids at the back
(13:24):
table and work more one-on-one.
Some teachers want me to justredirect.
You know I'm obviouslydepending on the needs of the
students, but I feel like we'rea team and when I'm in there
it's my job to make their jobeasier by meeting the students',
needs.
And you know if there'ssomething I'm not doing and I
(13:44):
tell them I'm like I go intoeach teacher's classroom like
you are not going to offend me,like I'm it is so you will have
to work to bother me.
Like if I'm doing something andit's not helpful, please tell
me, cause otherwise I'm justwasting our time.
(14:04):
And if there's something I needto do differently, please tell
me, because my whole point of myjob is to help.
It is to help the student,which therefore helps the
teacher.
So if, if I'm not doing that Ineed her to tell me.
And so I kind of tell teachersfrom the get go.
Like please tell me, like Iwon't be upset, this is my job,
like.
So I think you know I lean onthe teachers and not just the
(14:27):
teacher in the classroom.
Like you said, I've come toy'all and asked you questions
about students if I wasn't sure.
I've gone to other teachers inthe school if I know they taught
them the year before or haveworked with them in the past.
Or I've even messaged Taylor,the OT, and asked her questions.
If she she had suggestions onif I had a student that seemed
to be doing something, would shehave a suggestion on how to
(14:49):
help with this?
And so I feel like you know itreally is, we need each other.
So, and I've never had a teachernot help me, like I've never
asked and had a teacher not giveme ideas or suggestions or blow
me off and honestly, if I did,I would just go to another
teacher.
So but yeah, I mean I think youknow we're, we're a team.
(15:12):
So I feel like I feel like youknow you have to talk to your
teachers and you have to askquestions, like I'm.
I know my personality mightjust help along with this role,
but I'm not afraid to speak topeople or ask questions, or you
know, if I feel like I ask and Idon't get the answer, I will be
(15:32):
the first one to say I'm sorry.
I need you to like explain thata little bit more in depth,
because I don't understand andyou know, I'm going to make sure
that I know what I'm supposedto be doing.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
And that's fantastic, because I know that a lot of
times it's hard to communicatethroughout our day, and so I
think making that time to talkwith the teachers and to make
sure that you understand whatthey want I'm sure is
appreciated, Because I know thatsometimes you know that we'll
(16:04):
have conversations and ifsomebody doesn't quite
understand but they don't wantto say they don't understand,
then it doesn't help anybody.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, as long as they're not Go ahead.
I say.
One of the things that we saypretty often is you don't have
to worry about stepping on ourtoes, we leave them at home.
We are toeless in the building.
Leave them at home, we aretoeless in the building.
Say whatever it is you need tosay, because at the end of the
(16:33):
day, like you said, the wholepurpose of us being there us,
the entire team is to help thesestudents be as successful as
they possibly can be, and so wehave to be able to have
conversations that aren'tnecessarily fun, and we have to
be honest, and we have to beable to have conversations that
aren't necessarily fun.
And we have to be honest and wehave to be willing to answer
those questions, because if wedon't, then there is no progress
.
(16:56):
Right, I think that then ifwe're not doing what the teacher
wants, and then they're gettingfrustrated with us, and then
they're getting frustrated withthe student and it just ends up
(17:16):
being a big, I think, failurefor all of them.
Well, I know too.
Going back to you, know whatstrategies do you use?
And I know, oftentimes, whenpeople ask me, if they say, well
, you know, I have this studentor I have this child or whatever
, and this is what they do, whatcan we do to help them?
I do the same thing.
I'm like well, I don't.
If I don't know the kid, it'shard for me to give you any
direction, because there is noone size fits all.
There is no.
You know, if I use thisstrategy, then all of a sudden
(17:40):
everything gets easy and thekid's behavior is great and
they're making straight A's, andit doesn't work that way.
So we really do have to bepatient and calm and learn the
kid, and it's not going to bethe same for every kid.
It may not be the same for anyof the kids in the classroom,
but we have to stay flexiblewell, what works for one or what
(18:05):
not even that works for one,doesn't work for the other.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Some sometimes is what works one day doesn't work
the next day.
Yes, you think you're like,okay, I got it figured out, and
then you come back the next day.
They're like no, I don't wantthat.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yes, yes, that's all they like to keep us on our toes
, that is for sure absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Uh.
So when you're in the classroomwith the students and the
general education teacher andchallenging behaviors arise, if
what is the?
I guess not picking order, butkind of the, the order of that.
Like, if there are studentsthat you're working with, do you
try to deescalate that or doesthe teacher try it first?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Normally, if it's like a minor type of behavior, I
definitely am, I would say, thefirst to intercede.
Only because normally theteacher is, I mean, is teaching,
you know they're worrying aboutall the other students in the
classroom and if I'm working ina small group or one-on-one then
it's not that like that's.
(19:12):
You know my responsibility,necessarily, but it would just
makes more sense that she wouldnot stop what she's doing to
come intervene when I'm rightthere and I'm already with that
student, especially because morethan likely she may not even
know why the student's upsetbecause she's not over there
with him.
So so I usually am the firstlike to try to handle it if it's
(19:38):
something that I cannot handle.
Or because there are some daysI go in classrooms and the
student is already mad, alreadyfrustrated, came in the class
that way that day, came backfrom resource that way, came
back from recess that way, and Ihave no idea what's going on.
And I'm a big supporter of just.
(20:02):
Life has taught me a lot oftimes.
When kids are upset, that's nota moment you can rationalize
with them.
They're not in a mindset tolisten, they're not probably
going to be receptive toanything you say, so it kind of
depends on just the timing of it.
(20:22):
But if I'm working with astudent and they're getting
frustrated, I try to intervenebefore it becomes an issue that
the teacher has to.
So sometimes the teacher has tostep in and but but I try to, I
try to head it off before iteven gets to that point, if I
can.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Are there any specific strategies that you
find and as I know they all are?
I know they're all different.
I'm asking the question, butpeople ask.
But are there strategies thatyou find and as I know they all
are?
I know they're all different.
I'm asking the question, butJared just said well, people ask
, but you know, are therestrategies that seem to work,
more often than not, with yourstudents?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
You know, I think you know basically kind of
piggybacking on what Jared saida minute ago, was it really?
Just depends on the studentthat I'm working with, because
some students, you know, whenthey're frustrated they need a
distraction, they need somethingto take them from whatever's
making them mad and refocus onsomething different.
(21:18):
So sometimes I'll try to, youknow, give them a different
option.
If we're struggling with a mathpage, I might be like, hey, why
don't we go finish this and wecan come back and do this later.
And sometimes it's something assmall as that.
Other times, you know, it mightbe something just sitting with
them till they're calm, and Iknow that's such like I feel
(21:39):
like there's time is just notyour friend when you're in
school, because there's alwayssomething to do or somewhere to
be or somewhere to go, and butsometimes some of those kids
they just need some moments todecompress.
I have one student that you knowyou could not talk to him when
(22:00):
he was upset.
And if you tried, even if itwas saying things like it's okay
, you're not in trouble, I'm notupset, even if it was saying
things like it's okay, you'renot in trouble, I'm not upset,
even if you were saying positivethings.
The more you spoke, the moreescalated they became, because
they were just so already intheir feels.
I guess that they just couldn'tget away from that.
(22:21):
But if you gave them a minuteor two, you know, and you didn't
say anything or bring anyattention, they were cool.
And then you could do like a.
Can you tell me why you wereupset?
Can you tell me what we couldhave done different next time?
How could we handle thatdifferently?
And then you can have all thediscussions.
You know the teaching moments,but not when they're mad, you
(22:42):
know, but not when they're, butnot when they're mad, you know.
So I think the mainde-escalating for me is just
(23:03):
staying calm, not feeding intoit, you know, not adding fuel to
the fire, or you know, I guess,just aside from distractions,
maybe trying to talk to them andthen just giving them time to
process and then be, maybe evensome things.
Also, some kids, you know theylike to go for walks, they need
to leave the classroom, they'refrustrated and they need to get
out, even if it's just go get adrink of water and walk right
back, or you know, whatever thecase may be.
But so those are probablyreally the main things that I
(23:28):
would do.
You know, and I always kind ofhave this thought in my head of
if it's not disruptive ordestructive, does it need really
to be addressed in the moment?
You know, if a kid's upset andthey're back they're mumbling
underneath their breath butthey're not yelling at the
teacher.
To me I'm kind of like no, it'snot.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I mean, you can mumble.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, and when you're done mumbling and you seem like
you're over it, I'm going to.
We'll talk about why you'reupset, you know, but in the
moment some things don't need tobe addressed.
Right, then you know somethings.
Like I said, if it's notdisruptive or destructive, I can
let it go.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Well then, you're taking the chance of it becoming
more if you bring thatattention to it.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh yes, I think a popular perspective that we have
to fight on the regular and Ijust I mean, I think it's one of
those perspectives that justkind of come along naturally is
when we see a student or a childand they're exhibiting behavior
that we don't necessarily like.
(24:31):
I mean, it may not even beappropriate at the time, but
we're so quick to try to punisha child for that behavior
without taking the time tofigure out why and the why, can
be something as simple as theydon't want to do it, but they're
trying to figure out how toexpress that.
(24:52):
And so if we spend all of ourtime just trying to suppress
their expression, versus workwith them through it to find
better ways to deal with it,well, all we're doing is we're
adding to the anxiety, we'readding to the frustration and,
like you said, you and Lauraboth said, the chance of you
spinning them up even worse is ahigh probability, and then we
(25:15):
want to punish that.
So it's like, if we can learnto listen, if we can learn to
really and I love what you saidif we can just be there and let
them work through it to makesure they stay safe, make sure
nobody's getting hurt.
I think that that's just.
That's huge in the life of astudent who, like I said, hasn't
(25:37):
quite learned how to processand express what's going on
inside of them.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
And a lot of times, depending on who the student is.
And, like you said, I do thinkthere's such a huge advantage to
having a relationship with thestudents, so you know them, so
you can because there are somestudents, when they're upset, I
will say do you want to talkabout what's wrong?
And some of them be like no,and I'm like, OK, well, if you
do, I'll be right here and Ieven just kind of walk away and
(26:04):
go sit at a different table andI give them a few minutes, and I
even just kind of walk away andgo sit at a different table and
I give them a few minutes, andyou can kind of see, like when
the switch flips a little bitand they're not so frustrated
and they don't look so irritated, and I'll go back.
And sometimes then I'm like areyou ready to talk now?
And they're like yes, and thenthey tell me and you know, and
(26:24):
then we can work through it.
But I'm definitely not a pusher.
Not a pusher.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I I definitely am more like okay, we can go at
your, at your pace, you know, atleast until we can't, you know,
and then, and then we'll, we'llchoose a different path, but
but yeah, in the grand scheme ofthings, like you were saying,
that they're so busy and thattime is not our friends at
school, because there's so muchthat they have to get done and
there's places to be and theyhave to go, go, go.
(26:50):
But really, in the grand schemeof things, if they take an
extra five minutes to gettingdown the hallway and they get
there successfully and safely,that's more important than them
getting there five minutes early, earlier, and so I think what
you're saying is great, you know, give them that time.
And so I think what you'resaying is great, you know, give
them that time.
And one of our favorite sayingsand, in fact, one of our
(27:11):
favorite t-shirts and I believeMr Curtis is actually wearing it
is regulation beforeexpectation.
You know when you're upset andthis goes for us as well as the
students when you're upset andyour mind's racing and you're
crying and you're and you'rebeing irrational, you can't
focus on somebody asking you todo something.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I had a teacher today point out my shirt and she said
she said, mr Curtis, I'm reallyfeeling that shirt deep, I see.
You know, what's funny is thatI think that people think we
wear these shirts for the kidsAbsolutely not Like.
We wear ones that say be kindright.
We wear ones that sayregulation before expectation,
because as adults, if we'rebeing honest with ourselves, we
(27:55):
know, we know these things andso why would we expect these
kids to operate differently?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I know I've said before indifferent settings, you know
like can you go up and demandthat this student do this?
Absolutely Should?
You Probably not.
Like what is your, what is thewhole end goal?
And that's kind of it's like ifthe end goal is, you know, to
get from A to B, well, ifanything you're doing in between
(28:23):
is going to hinder that, doesit have to be done Like?
I know you know just frompersonal experience with my own
kids.
You know people would say, like, can you go up and say that to
them?
Absolutely yes, you can,because you're the teacher.
However, are you going to getthe result you want when you do
it?
Probably not Like, and I getthat it is.
It's hard as the grown up andthe adult you know like that you
(28:43):
have this mindset and I getthat it is.
It's hard as the grown up andthe adult.
You know like that you havethis mindset and I do it too
Sometimes, at least I have it inmy head.
Well, I should be able to dothis.
And it's like yes, and I can doit, but it doesn't mean that
it's going to benefit anyoneonce I've done it.
So I try to you know much moreat home, but at school, you know
I'm really mindful of how, ofhow the kids are and what they
(29:06):
need from me and being verypatient and calm and I'm very
consistent, like I might be.
You know you don't have to dothis right now, but we're going
to do this later, when you'recalm, like, and then I think
most of my kids know, like MsJax is going to make me do this,
because I'm very consistent.
If I tell you I'm going to doit, I'm going to do it Like, and
(29:29):
if I say it it's going tohappen Like.
And I think kids are supersmart, you know they can figure
out real quick what they can getaway with with, who they can
get those things away with, whothey can kind of a little bit
more pushover or, you know, givea lot more.
And kids are smart, like theyknow.
They know.
So it's very important that Ithink we're very consistent and
(29:52):
calm and when we're dealing withyou know behaviors.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, I agree that.
It's that consistency and, likeyou said, saying what you mean
and mean what you say.
And because they they willfigure it out though Well, you
know I'm really not going to sitfive minutes recess They'll
forget about it by the timerecess comes.
So if they know that you'regoing to hold them to that, then
(30:19):
I think they're more likely todo what they're supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And it does go way past the idea of just do what
I'm telling you to do.
There's a growing relationshipthat helps them to realize that
they can trust you, that theycan believe you when you say I
am here to help you be the beststudent that you can be.
Help you learn how to be thebest person you can be.
That allows them thatconsistency, allows them to
(30:48):
build trust right.
They learn to trust you throughthose consistencies.
You can bark orders all daylong, you can scream, you can
yell, but if they don't, ifthose students don't believe
that you care about what it isthat they need to accomplish, if
your goal doesn't align withwhat their goal needs to be,
they're going to know.
(31:08):
Like you said, they're smart,they're going to know and
they're not going to put a wholelot of stock in and what it is
that you have to say, and so itreally is important to go into
it with a like, with a servant'sheart, a how can I help this
child, how can I support thischild, and not how do I make
this child do what I want themto do?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
And so, hey, we're coming to the end of our time.
How quick has that been.
Isn't that fantastic?
Yes, but I do have one morequestion.
If this was the last timeanybody in the world could ever
(31:52):
hear you talk about supportingstudents in school, what would
you want your message to be?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Oh my goodness.
So just if you're not there tohelp them, why are you there?
Like I mean, if your whole goalis not to meet the needs, serve
those students, make sure thatthey are getting what they need
to be successful.
Like, why, what are you showingup for?
(32:30):
It sure can't be the paycheck,like I mean I'm like.
I mean I genuinely, genuinelycare about the students I'm with
.
I will look for things to helpthem.
I will talk to teachers.
I will ask questions, I willget support.
I want them to be successful.
I will talk to teachers, I willask questions, I will get
support.
I want them to be successful.
I want them to get what theyneed.
(32:52):
I want them to grow to be thebest versions of themselves.
I want their teachers to haveme there to support them to be
able to implement all the thingsthat they're supposed to be
getting.
You know, and I just feel likeyou know, if you're not there,
because you love those studentsand you genuinely want them to
(33:13):
get what they need to besuccessful, like, what are you
doing?
Like, why even show up?
I mean, and it's hard, and Iknow it's easy to say that
because it's a hard job and mean, and it's hard on days, you
know, and I'm in a gen edclassroom so I'm sure it's even
harder.
I remember in pre-k special edit was very hard some days, you
(33:34):
know.
But that's what my job is.
I am there for the students.
I am there to support them andto make sure that they are
getting what they need to besuccessful and to leave Matilda
Harris in a few years so muchbetter off than when they came
(33:55):
in because of not because of me,but because of what we as a
school set out to do for themand really refuse to accept
anything less.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, I think that is a great way to wrap this up.
And you know we can say this,we know that that you genuinely
do care about those kids,because we've seen you with them
and we've tried to recruit youto our team numerous times.
So, and if we're trying torecruit you, that means we see,
we see everything that you'vetalked about you, and if we're
trying to recruit you, thatmeans we see, we see everything
that you've talked about you.
(34:28):
You walk it out, it's not justwords, and so we appreciate you
Well, I'm honored to be invited.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yes, ma'am, so we're going to go ahead and wrap up
this episode.
Hey, if anybody listened tothis, you have some ideas.
As far as maybe you knowsomebody who you think could
provide some really greatconversation on one of our
episodes, or maybe you're one ofthose people that believe you
could provide a greatconversation concerning all
those that may sit at the tableof an IEP meeting, please, yeah,
(34:59):
reach out to us and let us know.
And, ms Jax, we'll see youtomorrow.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yep, I'll be there, Bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.