Nurturing Growth in Traumatized Students

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
welcome back to the newest episode.
I did it again.
I don't know why I say welcomeback, welcome back to hanging
out, but you haven't been tothis episode yet and you are now
so welcome.
Hello there, all right, maybenot, so we are continuing our

(00:24):
discussions here on theunveiling.
Nope, wrong one.
Life in the IEP tribe Did youdo that on purpose?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
No, I promise I didn't.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
It just like slipped out of my face Trying to plug.
No, no, I don't want to.
I don't want to.
I don't want to put any morestress on our listeners.
All right to put any more stresson our listeners, all right,
but what we are going to dotoday it's funny.
I said we're not going to putany stress on our listeners, but
today's topic of conversationis one that it's a pretty heavy
topic.

(00:54):
The reason it is is because ofthe impact that it has on those
experiencing it, that it has onthose experiencing it and, at
the same time, I think sometimesthat people kind of create or
shape these experiences and noteven realizing what they're

(01:14):
doing.
There's a strong possibilitythat there is an adult whether
it's a parent, a teacher,whatever the case may be an
individual that interacts withothers, and specifically
children in our conversationthat are generating traumatic

(01:35):
experiences and, like I said,they may not even know.
They may not even know whatthey're doing is building on to
this anxiety or fear that achild already possesses, and so
one of the things that we foundout through research is that
there is a direct correlation.
You can see the impact oftraumatic experience on children

(02:01):
with special needs, and now,whenever we talk about special
needs, there's a long list.
Whether it's whether it is alearning disability or a
cognition right, some thingsaren't just acting in the
typical manner, and then we havestudents that are more profound

(02:24):
, and then we have students thatare more profoundly disabled
and things like that, but all ofthese children are open to the
possibility of experiencingtrauma.
So one of the things that I'veread talks about how these
disabilities can kind of playinto that right.
Like if I'm a child that can'tcommunicate clearly, I can't

(02:48):
speak, I can't share my thoughts, my interactions with other
people have a higher possibilityof generating trauma in my life
because, although I cannotexpress it in words, I feel
trapped inside my own head, Ican't let those around me know

(03:10):
how I feel about specificexperiences or things that are
going on.
And so, with all that said, webelieve that it's a great
opportunity to discuss theimpact of trauma on these
children, on special needsstudents, and kind of bring to

(03:31):
the surface an understanding forteachers and parents alike or
anybody that I mean works in thecommunity, because what we're
finding is that our specialeducation, special needs
community is just going tocontinue to grow.
Special education, specialneeds community is just going to
continue to grow.
The numbers are increasing andwe will come across more people

(03:52):
that possess some sort ofspecial needs.
So it's important, as we kindof navigate through life, that
we remember that our actions,our words.
Remember that our actions, ourwords, our deeds impact those
around us.
We may not always see exactlyhow, so, laura.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
What do you got for us?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
What do I got?
Okay, so I know we talked aboutthis in our last episode.
I think we covered the impactof trauma on children, trauma on
behavior, talked a little bitabout what trauma is these
adverse childhood experiences,the gaps in teacher

(04:42):
understanding or other adultunderstanding, whether it be,
like you said, other caregiversor teachers or therapists, or
whatever it may be.
But, as you said, theidentification of children with
special needs is growing and sois these childhood experiences

(05:10):
that are traumatic.
And apparently that notapparently, from what I've read
on it is that it's increasingevery year, every year, and that
by the time a child hits 16,about 66% of children will have

(05:33):
at least one experience thatcould be traumatic, especially
since COVID.
And what I found throughresearch is that more than
150,000 children in the UnitedStates lost a parent during
COVID, and that is one of thosetraumatic experiences.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's a crazy number .

Speaker 2 (05:51):
It is.
It's a lot, and we talked abouthow it's not always possible to
undo the experience, that wecan move on and it doesn't have

(06:29):
as much of an impact.
However, as you stated,sometimes we have these, the
children that can't talk abouttheir experiences, so therapies
may be more difficult Sometimesif they can't let anybody know
they've had these experiencesand so nobody knows that
something has happened to them,unless you know.

(06:51):
It's evident, like the loss ofa parent.
But sometimes these childrenthat face abuse and neglect
can't come to school or can't goto therapies and tell people
hey, this is what's going on inmy life, and so it makes it
harder for them to deal withtheir traumatic experiences.

(07:12):
However, there are ways to helpthem if we know what's going on
and, as with diagnosingchildren with disabilities, that
early intervention is.
Key is that if you can startworking on these experiences and

(07:33):
working on helping them come toterms with it and give them
tools to use early, then that'sthe key to helping them identify
it and intervene and give themtreatments that help them.

(07:54):
And unfortunately, as you talkedabout, our students with
disabilities are more likely tohave these experiences, these
experiences.
However, just because they havea traumatic experience doesn't
always impact them to the pointwhere they receive services.
So sometimes having that IEPallows people to know, okay,

(08:18):
there's more going on.
But sometimes it's not enoughto get them those services and
have people have a document thatthey can read oh wow, this
child lost a parent, or you knowthis, RIPs don't always talk
about like home life, butsometimes they do.
But there's not always adocument that comes with the

(08:39):
students that have experiencedtrauma to tell us how to work
with them, of experienced traumato tell us how to work with
them.
And so, historically, the waythat children with trauma have
been intervened with has beenlike a zero tolerance or blanket
policies and no, we just don'tdo that.
And that causes a lot more harmthan it does Because, like you

(09:02):
said, if we don't know what'sgoing on with the student, if we
just punish the behaviorinstead of trying to figure out
the function of it and whatthey're trying to communicate,
then it does more harm than good.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
One of the kind of slogans that we go by is that
behavior is communication.
So, whether or not a kid cannecessarily tell us what's going
on, there are indicators inbehavior that there is something

(09:42):
going on, and I think that oneof the things that I think our
generation came up thinking isthat we want kids to behave,
just to behave, and so whathappens is we tend to punish the
undesired behavior, but what weneed to do and what we need to

(10:04):
put at the forefront of our mindwhen dealing with not only
children, but adults for thatmatter, is asking the question
what is it that has caused thisindividual to believe that this
is the best way to expressthemselves?
Now, like we've already said, asfar as kids go, I mean, there's

(10:25):
a good chance they don't evenknow what they're expressing,
and so, as parents, as teachers,as members of a community, we
have a responsibility to lookinto the why behind what's going
on, what might be causing thatbehavior, be willing to have

(10:47):
those conversations, like in ourcase, and have those
conversations with people thatwork in the school system with
us, to have those conversationswith principals, assistant
principals, guidance counselors,so on and so forth, and to kind
of get an idea of what can welook for.
What is it that really takesthe time to see, what is it that

(11:12):
presents itself prior to thebehavior?
And so what are some thingsthat we can do, what are some
things that we'd look for, whatare some?
How, how do we, how do we tryto connect with these children,
whether I be a parent again or ateacher, whatever the case may
be?
How, how do I, what do I lookfor in when I'm trying to figure

(11:38):
out how to support the, thestudent?

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Um, are you saying, like, what do we look for as far
as what the children arepresenting or in how to work
with them?

Speaker 1 (11:54):
What would you like to talk about?

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Well, I believe the previous episode we covered what

(12:29):
it can do to children, whatthings that they might present,
the work with students that maybe presenting behaviors due to
these adverse childhoodexperiences, adverse childhood
experiences and some of thethings that in the classroom or

(12:50):
in the therapy session orservices that they can do is
implement some strategies thatare proactive and, instead of
waiting for the behavior tohappen, they can get strategies
to help prevent the behavior.
One key one is build arelationship with these students
and get to know them.

(13:12):
I think we've talked about thatin other aspects.
I mean that relationshipbuilding and getting to know
them, and I know teachers haveso much on their plate that that
is difficult because they havea lot that says okay, you have
to do this, do this, do this, dothis and teach, teach, teach,
test, test, test, assess, assess, assess.

(13:34):
And so it makes it difficultwhen you have 20, 25, sometimes
some places, 30 students to getto know each one, to have that
time to each one, and but thatis one of the best ways that you
can help these students, thatyou can show them you're

(13:55):
interested and when they trustyou, they're more likely to.
When they trust you, they'remore likely to be able to
express their needs or be ableto talk about what they've gone

(14:16):
through.
If they're able to communicatewhen they know that you care,
they're less likely to presentthese behaviors as well.
Another positive tactic orstrategy that they can use peer
groupings.
You take a student that is apositive role model and pair

(14:41):
them up with one or two otherpeers in the classroom and I see
a lot of that peer modelingthat help students, show them
these other students can showthem.
This is what we do.
And then also choices.

(15:05):
We found choices help a lot,especially in our classrooms,
because a lot of times, studentswith disabilities and students
that have these experiences theyfeel like they have no control
over their lives and thateverything is dictated for them,
everything is chosen for themand they're told what to do and

(15:29):
how to do it and when to do it.
So if you offer them somechoices not just whatever you
want to do.
Choices, however, offer choicesthat still gives the outcome
that we want, however, but itgives them some of that control.
Do you want to use the pencilor do you want to use a marker?

(15:49):
Do you want to do this sheetfirst or that sheet first?
You still want them to do thetwo sheets.
However, you give them a choiceof what order they do it in.
Do you want to do this beforeor after recess?
This has to be done.
When is it going to be done?

Speaker 1 (16:32):
That kind of thing.
When there's more positiveteacher relationships to, you
know, teacher-studentrelationships, you end up with
positive outcomes.
Because what we do know is thattraumatic experiences can
happen in a vast amount of ways.
Right, there's, like I saidbefore, there's some that is

(16:54):
inflicted on others, that theydon't even realize what they're
doing to this other person.
And then there's some peoplethat are just evil and they do
evil things.
And so let's consider for amoment being a child whether
it's kindergarten, third grade,seventh grade, whatever and like

(17:20):
most of us, we can'tnecessarily control the things
that are done to us.
Right, we can, we can run fromsituations.
We can fight back, we can.
However, we can't control whatsomebody else does.
All right.
So now, if I'm a smaller person,if I'm a smaller child, and I

(17:41):
am afraid I can't fight back, Ican't, like there's nothing I
can do to stop that.
I, in my mind, I have to endurethis and there's nothing I can
do about it.
Then, on top of that, I'm goingto go out into society, in this
case a school, and on top ofnot being able to control what

(18:02):
people do to me, I don't evenhave a say in what I get to do
so.
I am enslaved to thedecision-making of everybody
else, and now we want you tobehave Like how does that even
make any sense?

(18:23):
When we look at it that way?
I mean, anybody that has half abrain would agree wow, that's
horrible.
I mean, you don't have to be ascholar or a rocket scientist to
realize that that situation hassomebody and that child may not
be able to vocalize it, butthey are stuck.

(18:43):
They have no control.
So by doing the things thatyou're talking about, well, now
I do have some control in thethings I should be able to
control.
Thank you for allowing me to dothis instead of this, and I
have these options and I havethese choices, instead of just
being told to sit down and bequiet or sit down and do your

(19:05):
work, or whatever that may be.
And so I think that's anotherplace that we kind of run into
some difficulty when it comes tobeing parents of special needs
children, being teachers ofspecial needs children, being
administrators in a school thathas special needs children, is

(19:27):
how do we help them develop theskills that we know will be
beneficial for them moving intothe future, without being too
heavy handed or being a pushoverLike where is that line Right?
You have to have a balance.

(19:47):
So, because what we can't haveis we can't have, especially
with children, we can't havechildren that are just, you know
, wheels off all the time andjust leave them alone and be
like, well, just be wheels off,right, because your life's a
little bit harder than others,or you're dealing with these

(20:08):
situations and I'm not makinglight of those.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
But we're not helping when we say, well, just act it
out Equally.
We're not helping when we say,well, just act it out Equally.
We're causing issues when we'retrying to suppress the
expression of the child Right.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Like you said, there has to be a balance because I
mean, we found, even with ourchildren with special needs,
regardless of trauma or not, ifyou know, we feel and of course
we're going to empathize andsympathize with our students.
However, if we don't try towork to correct it because we

(20:44):
feel sorry for them, we're notdoing them any good and say,
well, you know, I feel badbecause they've had this or they
have this, so I'm going to tryto make life easy on them.
They're gonna grow up and noteverybody's gonna have that same
outlook on on them I.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
I was just looking at this.
Uh, there's a a chapter in thepalgrave encyclopedia of
disability and it talks abouthow developmental trauma and
disability, mental health, howthey all kind of you'll see them
run together because thesechildren that have these
disabilities are unfortunatelyat a higher risk of experiencing

(21:30):
trauma and maltreatment becausethey don't always have an
audible voice.
Unfortunately, they end uparound people that are very
do-what-I-say-because-I-say-itand really not helping the child
move towards what is best forthem.

(21:52):
I just had a conversation theother day, as a matter of fact,
with somebody and talking aboutthe importance of the volume of
our voice and how that impactsstudents and how they're going
to receive what we're saying.
Because, naturally, when peopleare mad at us, they yell at us,

(22:13):
right.
Naturally, when people are madat us, they yell at us, right.
And what we don't want to teachour kids is that, well, you're
in trouble because I'm mad atyou, right, we don't Kids.
Here's just a little side noteIf you discipline your kid
because you're mad at them,that's abuse.
Don't do that, don't do that,don't do that.

(22:37):
If you're disciplining yourchild because you want to see
them become a better member ofsociety, well, you don't have to
yell at them, right, becauseyou don't want them to learn
that just because you didsomething I don't like, I can
yell at you.
What you want them to learn iswhat it is that you want them to

(22:58):
learn, right?
I don't.
I'm not going to yell at a kidfor cussing in our classroom.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Right.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Because if I yell at him, what he's going to realize?
Well, Mr Curtis is mad at meand because he's mad at me he
can punish me, or he can notpunish me.
I don't do anything to them.
That sounds horrible.
I had this one student one timeI was talking to and he was
very mad at me.
And we're just talking, I'mtrying to get him to understand
the importance of not losing hismind in the middle of a
classroom, and he just startedsaying don't spank me, I'm like

(23:30):
what?
Like we have never had any typeof relationship even close to
that, but and that was just hisway of expressing himself- yeah,
that's I mean.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
When he's in trouble, that's what happens, and so
that's what he figured.
Well, I'm in trouble, I didsomething wrong.
So, this is what's going tohappen.
Well, and once again, that kindof shows you how kids correlate
people who have authority overthem.
So you know, it makes itdifficult for them to

(24:03):
differentiate what is OK andwhat's not OK, because obviously
that child thought that youhave authority over him.
He's in trouble, that that's OKfor you to do.
Yeah, he made me mad, so thenext step is and not saying that
there's anything wrong with ifthat's how his parent you know,

(24:25):
if that's how they discipline athome, that's up to them.
But he figured you know, didn't, which is one of the reasons
why our kids with disabilitiesdo end up having these traumatic
experiences, people takingadvantage of them because they
can't differentiate that youknow what is okay, what's not

(24:47):
okay, just like I said side notethere yeah, I like that.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
The only problem with side notes is I forget where we
were.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Oh right, yeah, we get to going down the rabbit
holes.
Um, we're talking about that,how to help these children to to
deal with these things, and um,and talking about schools and
how to help them to deal withthem and the behaviors,
communication, and um, insteadof just punishing the behavior,

(25:17):
really need to figure out thethe why of the behavior and try
to determine what works best.
And I think we've also talkedabout before what works for one
child doesn't work for the otherchild.
Um, you know, we have we havestudents that will work hard,
hard, hard so they can get adesired object.

(25:41):
We have students that will workhard, hard, hard so they can
get a sticker or a gummy bear,and so, you know, part of that
relationship building islearning what works with the
student.
And yes, it's difficult because, like we said, teachers are

(26:02):
already overworked and have alot on them and underprepared.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
We talked about that, you said in the opening, is
that we have teachers that don'thave the training that they
need.
So what do we do about that?
So what do we do about that?
Like, what do we do about thatas teachers?
What do you do about that asparents?
What do we do about that asmembers of our society, of

(26:31):
really providing a safe placewhere students that have
experienced trauma can begin toheal?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
teachers, mentors, therapy providers, and helping
us determine what behaviors aredue to trauma responses and what
behaviors are not, and how tosupport those students rather
than punish them.
And so it all starts with thatlearning where districts and
schools you know if yourdistrict or your school offers a
course on that, a public or aprofessional development?

(27:28):
If it's, you know it's one ofthose you get to choose from.
Take it and help to identifysome of these behaviors that are
not just a student that is madand acting out, that there's
more behind it, and learn somestrategies to work with them.

(27:49):
Like we talked about pairingstudents up and options, and
that's really one of the ways.
And also too and this is a hardone, you know that, as the
adult that, for that time, is incharge, so to speak, of this

(28:13):
child, we also have to do someself-reflection.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
And you know like, look at our own social and
emotional skills Mm-hmm, becausewe may be going through things
too.
We may have some, you know,responses that are due to some
of the experiences we've had.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
And so we have to take that look and say, okay, am
I responding in this waybecause of something I've gone
through and okay, why am Iyelling?
Why am I letting this get to meand that need for control in
our life, what is that from?
So that's probably one of themost difficult aspects of all of

(29:08):
this is to figure out what ourresponses are and how to deal
with it that that student do 20multiplication facts when you
know they know theirmultiplication facts.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
If they can show you with 10, does it need to be 20?
If they?
Can show you with 5, does itneed to be 20?

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Right.
So you know, pick, pick, choose, choose your battles, and we've
also had that fair and equalconversation.
We've also had that fair andequal conversation.
If looking at a page of 20multiplication facts spins this
child out of control, is it thatimportant?
But you don't have to leteverybody else in the class not

(29:48):
do their work Right.
You can take that paper and say, okay, fold it in half.
Even if you can do that too,the way you present it, fold it
in half, or fold it in quartersand have them flip it.
So then it's not so overbearing.
So those are some things Ithink, as the adult in these
children's lives, that we needto focus on.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, and the only thing that I would want to add
to that is feel free to contactyour board of education in your
district, ask questions, youknow, give ideas.
One of the things that we'veexperienced in our district is
that we've had the opportunityto sit down with the decision

(30:35):
makers that are at the top ofthat pyramid, and they have not
only listened to us butappreciate what we bring to the
table, because it's all aboutthe kids.
How do we help the kids become?
It's not just how do we getthem to pass tests, but how do

(30:58):
we get them to be, help thembecome members of society that
want to make a difference, thatwant to care about others, that
care about where they are, thatcare about their families.
Right, we want to see the wholechild become somebody that will
support the community that theylive in.

(31:19):
And so, yeah, reach out, reachout to your district, make phone
calls, shoot emails.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
Start with your guidance counselors and your
school social workers.
And hey, I have something goingon in my classroom with this
student.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Maybe could you come observe, Because the counselors
and social workers, they'retrained to identify this, and as
parents I mean parents callRight Like connect with as many
people as you can, because itseems that when we, as human
beings, work together, we getmore things done.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Right as parents.
There's nothing wrong withtaking your child to get some
therapy, and even if they can'texpress what's going on and I
don't know if we've talked aboutit before with Xander going on,
and I don't know if we'vetalked about before with xander

(32:18):
xander was going through anemotional time and he couldn't
express to us what was going on,but he would have these
emotions, flood of emotions,that would change by the second,
and so we took him to playtherapy and through that, his
therapist was able to help usunderstand what was going on,
because that's what he's trainedto do.
We're not right, we're parents,we're not, we weren't, we're

(32:38):
not therapists, and and there'sand there's, I know there's a
stigma behind that there'snothing wrong with getting your
child as much help as you oh,absolutely not, yeah um and so
if your child is presentingthese behaviors and you don't
know why, contact a therapistand see and see if a child
therapist, a play therapist, andhopefully they can give you

(33:02):
some insight there.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Well, I think we're going to wrap this one up All
right.
I feel like this conversationmay continue in the future.
We'll see.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
But hey, if you have any ideas and or subject matter
that you would love to talk tous about or hear us talk about,
or you know, whatever the casemay be, some topics that are
important in your life, pleasecontact us at life, in the IEP
tribe, at gmailcom.

(33:35):
You can find us on theFacebooks, and that's pretty
much where we spend most of ourtime.
But, yeah, contact us, let usknow what's up and we would love
to hear from you and continuethese conversations.
So until next time, take care,bye.