January 11, 2025 • 39 mins
What if our perception of being the main character in our own story blinds us to the struggles of others? Tune in as we promise to unravel the complexities of trauma-informed care, focusing on the transition back to routine post-holidays and the role of empathy in our interactions. We'll discuss how recognizing each person's unique narrative can foster compassion, particularly in sensitive situations like suicide. Whether you're a parent, educator, or engaged in human relationships, this episode offers insights into how understanding diverse life stories can transform our support for one another.
Join us as we explore the profound impact of childhood trauma on behavior through Bandura's social cognitive lens. We'll highlight the challenges faced by children in foster care, those with disabilities, and how adverse experiences shape their worldviews and coping mechanisms. With a critical eye on home and educational environments, we'll spotlight the intricate ties between experience and behavior, making a case for why empathy and kindness should guide our responses to children's actions.
We'll confront the hurdles educators and parents face in supporting students with Individualized Education Programs and trauma backgrounds. It's time to acknowledge the demands on teachers and how lack of special education training impacts their capacity to nurture strong student relationships. By advocating for community involvement and intentional compassion, we'll chart a course for improving outcomes for these children. Equip yourself with the knowledge and tools to support students in navigating the complexities of trauma, education, and human connection.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
well, the holidays have come and gone, we have
passed christmas and new yearsand rolling back into the school
year and working with ourstudents and it was really funny
to me that we were kind of Idon't say excited about getting
to school, but we were pumped upand ready to go.
(00:25):
And that was Tuesday and byWednesday we were like yeah,
we're tired again.
Yes, I don't think we want to,like I'm ready for another
weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Just wade back into this thing, even though we did
have Monday, to kind of get ourbearings back.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Not quite the same though.
Not quite, but that's okay likewe're in it and we're in it to
win it.
We're in no okay so anyway.
Uh, I'm pretty excited aboutwhat we're going to be talking
about this evening.
Well, it's evening while we'rerecording, because I think it's
(01:05):
something that is really easy tooverlook.
And here's something I'velearned about myself and some
things I've I kind of assumeabout others and please
understand when I say assume,that's not from the judging
standpoint, saying, oh, you dothis, but see, I know this is
(01:25):
what I do, and I like to thinkthat other people kind of view
the world the same way.
So each and every one of us, wekind of live as the main
character in our story, right,everything we see is first
person.
Everything happens around us.
We view it with our eyes, wehear it with our ears, we smell
(01:49):
it with our nose.
Right, like that's how weexperience life and the only
life we live in, that firstperson.
Everybody else is a member ofthe story that we're living in.
(02:10):
And while that I do believe isnormal and I don't think there's
anything wrong with it, I don'tknow how you change that.
Like, even if it was wrong, howin the world can you not be in
your head?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Right, I don't know.
This doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, so I think it's safe to assume that, in the same
way, other people approach lifelike that.
I believe that you, laura, areactively the main character in
your life.
Everything else you see happensaround you, but your brain is
the only brain that you see allthe time.
I mean not see all the time,that didn't even make sense, but
(02:46):
it's the one that you use.
Right, you live inside ofyourself and see everything on
the outside, and so when we livethat way, it's very easy for us
to minimize the experiences ofothers.
Right, we allow things to getto us that probably shouldn't of
others.
(03:06):
Right, we allow things to getto us that probably shouldn't
really bother us all that much,but again, the only feelings we
have are ours.
We don't feel other people's.
I mean, I know there's sympathyand empathy and all of that,
but we have no idea what it'slike living in the brain of
somebody else.
And so as we go through life,it's very easy for us to kind of
(03:27):
lack in compassion wheninteracting with others.
You know, we find ourselvesoftentimes saying well, you know
, it's really messed up thatthis person does this or this
person did that, and whilewhatever their activity may have
been and it may well have verywell been a horrible thing.
We don't know why One of thethings that we talk about I
(03:52):
don't want to say on a regularbasis because that just sounds
weird, but I know that we've hada conversation even talking
about suicide, and people havedifferent views and opinions
when it comes to that and howthey view it, and some people
get angry about it.
Others, of course, areheartbroken.
But the one thing that we haveto ask ourselves is you know
(04:14):
what happened to this person,that they came to the conclusion
that taking their own life wasthe best option?
I mean, that's crazy, right?
It's crazy to think and to tryto put ourselves in that
situation where I can look at,you know, a world full of
(04:37):
billions of people, social media, my contacts and my phone
there's so many people that Ican interact with and I come to
the conclusion that ending myown life makes the most sense.
And I think, when we start tolook at the way that people live
(05:01):
and interact and the way thatminds work, that we can learn to
have more compassion and careand look for ways to support
others and not necessarily sitback and judge and okay, well,
you know, I clearly would nevermake that choice.
(05:21):
So I'm a better person thanthem, or that's not an issue I'm
dealing with.
So it's easy for me to dogsomebody because they're in the
middle of that, and so, as I'mrambling on, you may ask the
question what does this have todo with A being a special
education teacher or B?
That's right.
(05:42):
I used A.
I put up one finger instead ofsaying one.
I have to let people know that,because they can't appreciate
it if I don't.
So, yes, I'm saying A and B andthen I'm using one and two on
my fingers.
But, you didn't say A and two,right, because that would just
(06:05):
be ridiculous.
So so what does that have to dowith being a teacher in special
education, being a, being aparent in special education,
being an administrator inspecial education, being a
parent that has a child withspecial needs, being a parent of
a child with special needs,being a parent of a child that
doesn't have special needs butmaybe goes to school with
(06:29):
friends and peers that havespecial needs?
I think, foundationally, what itmeans is that we have to learn
that, while we might be the keyperson of our story, that
there's other people livinglives and they're the key person
of our story, that there'sother people living lives and
they're the key people in theirstory, and so we need to take
(06:50):
the time to consider what mightbe going on in their lives.
And so, leading to the topic, Imean, I feel like I just ramble
and ramble and ramble, becauseI guess I kind of do and I hope,
hope it made some sense butleads us to the topic of
conversation, uh, on thisepisode being trauma-informed
(07:15):
care, or we're going to talkabout the impact of trauma in
the lives of students and andand let's see, let's just see
where that conversation goes,all right.
So, laura, what do you knowabout trauma?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, I happen to have done some studying on
trauma and the trauma-informedcare, trauma-informed practices,
informed care, trauma, informedpractices and, um, if you want
to go about a general definition, it's about the uh, the
response, both emotional andphysical, to whether it be
(07:54):
multiple events or one event oran environment that leads to
harm of an individual, harmthat's emotional, physical,
psychological, and it'stypically long-lasting and it
impacts an individual'swell-being and functionality.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
All right, so let's take that definition and kind of
paint me a picture.
What might that look like?
Like what kind of trauma mightour students experience?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Trauma is known as and we're talking about children
adverse childhood experiences.
It could be in the form ofviolence, either witnessing
violence of a loved one, orhaving physical abuse or neglect
, or caregiver, parent abuse,grandparent may die unexpectedly
(08:59):
, mental health issues of familymembers and all of these things
can impact and be consideredtrauma.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So it's not necessarily.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat it's the impact of horrific
violence, but it really has alot to do with the impact of
actions, the impact of theactions of others, the certain
(09:33):
situations and context.
That is just a little too muchfor this child to process and
understand.
I mean, let's be honest, evenas adults, we don't understand
our emotions very well, right.
There's oftentimes that we actout in ways and we don't even
(09:56):
realize the why behind it.
We don't even realize the whybehind it.
So if we were to do like alittle psychological study and
we read up on some of theinformation recorded by Bandura
Albert Bandura, one of histhings was the whole social
cognitive theory, right.
(10:16):
And the idea being that welearn our behavior based on our
experiences, right.
So if I touch a stove and it'shot, I learn touching hot things
is bad, it hurts, right.
If I decide that I'm going torun out in my drawers and it's,
(10:37):
you know, 26 degrees outside andsnow everywhere and I get cold,
I'm going to learn I need toput some clothes on, absolutely.
So we experience these thingsand they shape the way that we
view the world around us.
Now, those are silly.
I don't even call them extreme,but those impact of
(11:03):
interactions are what create theway that we see the world
around us, and so these childrenare the same way.
What they see feeds the waythat they view and interact with
the world around them.
And so, with that in mind, ifwe think about this trauma, I
mean them.
(11:25):
And so, with that in mind, ifwe think about this trauma, I
mean here's an example that isnot far-fetched and that,
unfortunately, people experiencea lot.
Kids experience a lot is thatyou know they'll have parents
that have substance abuse issuesor addictions, and these
children, under I mean no faultof their own, end up being
removed from where they live.
(11:46):
And the parents they knowwhether they totally understand
what it was that mom and or dadwas doing.
They just know that now I'm nolonger in that house and now I'm
being put into another houseand I don't know these people,
and they're going to try tointeract with each other and
(12:07):
they're going to try to functionin a family-type way.
However, they're not family.
It's like they haven't grown uptogether.
They haven't, you know, thefoster parents didn't raise them
, they didn't, they weren'tthere when they were born in
most cases.
And then you have these childrenwho I understand that mom and
dad are supposed to be the onesthat take care of me, that lead
(12:29):
me, that teach me, and now Idon't have them and I'm in
somebody else's home.
This could be an incrediblytraumatic experience, right?
So then what happens is?
The result could be a childgenuinely feeling alone, even
though they just went from onehouse to another, genuinely
feeling alone, and so, again, Ibring up that example only to
(12:54):
say that trauma isn't just onething, or two things, or three
things.
Trauma isn't just one thing ortwo things or three things.
It really has to do with howthese children are impacted by
whatever experience, right?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
What do you think?
No, I agree that it's what theyexperience and what they come
to know and, like you said,that's how we learn and how we
know how to cope.
And if they're in a situationthat the person supposed to be
(13:38):
taking care of them, the personsupposed to be taking care of
them they, you know dies, orthey abuse them, or they neglect
them or they, then they don'tthese, they don't develop those
coping skills because there'snobody to teach them that the
people that are supposed to bedoing this for you know,
sometimes reasons not of theirown choosing, but are not able
(14:02):
to provide that for these, thesechildren, and then, um, like
you said, some they're removedfrom the home and then they go
to um.
A lot of times it's astranger's house and, um, they
might not be the only childrenthere.
And so, I mean, we know thatthere are some fantastic foster
(14:25):
families out there.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Absolutely Some that we love to death.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Right, but there's also some that are not so good
that these children have dollarsigns and so that, can you know,
bring on even more trauma.
And then it impacts them injust about every part of their
being emotionally and socially,academically, behaviorally,
(14:53):
physically, mentally.
It has an impact all over,Right.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And so what we have also found and we're going to
tie something together here realquick is that research shows
that it is prevalent in studentsthat have been diagnosed with a
disability or an exceptionalityto present problematic behavior
(15:22):
.
I mean they kind of go hand inhand, not saying that every kid
that has an IEP is a problemchild.
But, what we do find is thatalong with that comes
problematic behavior.
And so what does that?
What do we do with that?
What does that look like in theschool setting?
(15:42):
Little Jommy Jommy, littleJohnny or little Jane, she is
coming to school, she has an IEPshe struggles with, I don't
know.
Let's just, let's say that sheis, we'll just use autism.
That seems to be you know a bigone, right?
We'll just use autism.
That seems to be you know a bigone, right?
(16:03):
So she already has differentways of processing and
understanding the world aroundher.
And now, on top of that, thereare things that are happening in
the home that prove to betraumatic for that child.
Again, we can't sit here andsay that it's well, they're
(16:25):
either getting beat or they're,you know, being abused in some
other way, but they'reexperiencing something,
something in the home thatemotionally psychologically,
that emotionally psychologicallyreally kind of unhinges them a
little bit.
So now we're going into theschool setting, an area that I'm
(16:54):
kind of struggling with anyway,because I do have my own
learning disabilities, and thenon top of it, I have this trauma
.
What are some things that wemight see in the school, in the
classroom?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
A lot of time that the students that have
experienced a trauma and alsohave another disability on top
of it, they have a hard timeself-regulating.
They get spun up and then theycan't just turn that off and
then sometimes they don't havethe coping skills to be able to
(17:29):
learn, you know, to calmthemselves down and they're just
typical life events.
It impacts their typical lifeevents or friends, interactions
with friends, interactions withtheir teachers.
They may, depending on what itwas that happened, they may not
trust the grownups, or they maynot trust women, or they may not
(17:51):
trust men.
It impacts their attendance.
A lot of times they're absent.
It impacts their learning,because their academics usually
(18:12):
fall, and their neurodevelopment, because those types of actions
they tend to impact their braindevelopment.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
They kind of put a strain on it.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Right, and so it can.
It just messes them up all theway around, yeah, and so there's
a it makes school hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, way harder than it needs to be needs to be.
So what we have is we have astudent that will, either will
one of two ways express thistrauma and again, not even
necessarily knowing that whatthey are doing or what they are
feeling is a product ofsomething they've experienced.
(18:56):
All they know is one of twothings either A what's going on
inside bubbles up so much to thepoint that I have to
externalize it.
Right, I've got to get this outof me.
I'm angry.
There's this feeling inside ofme that I cannot leave alone.
I remember hearing one time andthis isn't necessarily a direct
(19:16):
correlation, however it kind ofpaints a picture I was reading
an article one time about ayoung lady who was nonverbal and
she learned to communicatethrough a device.
Right, she could type out—theydidn't even know that she could
spell anything but she wouldtype out what she was feeling
(19:39):
and could communicate in thatway.
And they asked the question whyis it that you get flappy Like?
Why do you?
Why do you flap?
What is with that?
And the way that she describedit was that there's this big
ball of energy that builds upand I don't know how to get it
out, and so I flap my handsright.
So if we take that same, thatsame kind of idea, that same
(20:02):
perspective and we kind of wrapit around a child that has
experienced trauma, the samething is going to happen.
There's either A going to bethis hurt, anger.
However, it presents itself intheir body, in their mind.
That has to get out, and we seethat in the form of, you know,
(20:24):
chairs being thrown, desks beingflipped.
You know, there's a number ofthings that that that we've seen
now, and that's not suggestingthat every kid that flips a
table or a chair has some sortof trauma in their life.
However, it is one of thoseindicators, right, like there's
(20:46):
something going on inside thatthey just got to get out, and
oftentimes you won't even knowwhat triggers it.
Or, if it's not beingexternalized, it's being
internalized.
So then you end up with a childthat is either incredibly
anxious or real what's the wordI'm looking for?
(21:06):
Like real withdrawn and tothemselves.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, depressed and antisocial, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I just said, have anxiety?
Yeah, because I can't.
I don't know why I feel the wayI feel, but I'm not willing to
and allow somebody else to addon to that, because I mean
things like anxiety, and they'renot necessarily what's the word
(21:39):
I'm looking for.
They don't always make sense,right?
We have fears, and we havehealthy fears, and we have fears
that just aren't grounded inany kind of fact, right, any
factual concern.
And a child can feel thesethings, and, again, it may have
(22:02):
nothing to do with the physicalpresence.
Them being in the classroom,may not have anything to do with
the classroom whatsoever, butit has everything to do with
what has been shaping their mind, what has been shaping their
perspective.
And so, with that in mind, whatare some?
(22:24):
What are some likeresponsibilities that we, as
we'll just say, adults, whetherit's teaching, being teachers or
parents in the home, orwhatever the case may be, what
are some?
What are some responsibilitiesthat we have and how we should
(22:45):
approach a child that that mayhave experienced trauma in their
life?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I think and I think we've discussed this before the
first thing that we have to dowe have to get to know our kids
and so and then we'll know thisbehavior is typical or not
typical, or especially withsomething new, you can find out
what is going on.
And and you talked aboutempathy and have that have that
(23:15):
empathy, because we don't always, they won't always, tell us
what's happening.
So I think that if we, if weapproach them with kindness and
love and try to find out what'sgoing on before just getting
(23:41):
upset with them for presentingsome undesired behaviors, try to
understand the why behind itand because, yes, there are
behaviors, you know, hand inhand with some of these
exceptionalities.
However, there's typically areason for them.
You know, we have thoseteachers that say behavior is
(24:02):
communication, so they're tryingto tell us something.
So, as adults, it's ourresponsibility to try to figure
out what they're trying to tellus and help them to be able to
tell us what it is that's goingon.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Well, a common approach and perspective
especially if you've grown updown south is there are certain
expectations that often areplaced on children when it comes
to their interactions withadults, and I'm not saying that
(24:37):
that's wrong.
I'm not saying that we don'tteach our kids to respect adults
and respect each other andrespect themselves, but there
are cases to where sometimes, asadults, we just want them to do
what we tell them to do and actthe way that we tell them to
(25:00):
act, simply because we're theadult and they're the child.
Right keep in mind the what likewhat you're saying, the why
behind it is there.
Is there something going on?
Because if we're so quick toshut down a child's behavior
(25:25):
just by, just stop, just stopdoing it, because I'm telling
you to stop doing it, but don'ttake the time to understand the
why behind it.
Not only are we not offeringsupport, we're compounding the
problem.
So, on top of what they'refeeling, that's been formed
(25:47):
outside of the classroom, that'sbeen formed outside of the
school system, now we're goingto add on expectation to the top
of it, and so, in turn, I meanwe're placing incredible weight
upon the shoulders of thechildren, who are again
oftentimes carrying somethingwith them that was not their
(26:08):
fault, right, whatever thatexperience may have been.
And so it's important as adults, it's important as teachers,
it's important as parents this,you know that's something that I
can say that I certainly didnot earn the gold star in with
(26:29):
with the boys, and that is, youknow, I was not always a let's
kind of figure out what's goingon here.
Oftentimes it's just I don'thave time, do what I tell you to
do, right, and let's roll.
No, you know what you're actingout.
You just go sit in your room oryou go, you know whatever, and
(26:50):
just kind of push it to the sidebecause we're so stinking busy
that we just can't take the time.
Now I understand that noteverybody is a psychologist, not
everybody is a therapist.
I mean, either one of us areright.
We're special educationteachers.
Now we've read some stuff right.
(27:10):
And different articles andjournal articles and stuff like
that.
But we don't have to betherapists to understand
genuinely caring for thesestudents and what they
experience.
So we have an idea of whattrauma is and we know that we
(27:36):
need to be trauma-informed.
What do you think it is thatkeeps us from as educators, as
parents, as adults?
What do you think it is thatkeeps us from moving forward in
better understanding trauma inthe lives of these children and
(28:00):
students?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
As you started out with, is that unless we've
experienced it ourself, weprobably don't understand it.
It and so I think that there islack of a better term some
ignorance there, because it'snot natural for these children
(28:26):
to experience some of the thingsthat they experience, and so
that ignorance, you just don'tknow about it also.
So not only can you notunderstand it, there's also it's
becoming more and more talkedabout.
You hear a lot of that, youhear trauma more and more lately
, but there's still not, it'snot widely taught in schools and
(28:51):
it's not widely taught in liketeacher prep programs, and I
think that is is probably at thetop is just a lack of knowledge
and understanding.
And then that, like you weretalking about with parents, and
I'll think also with withparents and also with teachers,
(29:13):
is that that time constraint.
Okay, well, I've, I've got, Igot to teach this lesson where
I've got to do.
I don't.
I don't have time to go sit for30 minutes over here to to
figure this out, so I just needyou to sit there and be quiet.
Um, because there's so much puton responsibility to put on
these, these teachers, that onthese teachers, that they
(29:36):
oftentimes have a hard timefinding the time to build those
relationships that they need tobuild with the students and not
saying that they don't work thatin and that they don't try
their best.
But it's hard and there's somedays that they're overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Well, here's something to consider.
We know that, nationwide, 17%of all of our students that
attend public school have an IEPright, so they have either some
sort of a learning disorder orsome exceptionality that impacts
their ability to learn.
(30:16):
What we also know is that themajority of those students right
that the pool grows as you goup from preschool.
So I had the opportunity towork in an elementary school as
a collaborative specialeducation teacher and the year
(30:40):
my very first year I worked withtwo grade levels out of six and
I had more students.
There were upper grades, fourthand fifth grade, and I had more
students to serve than theteacher that worked with the
(31:02):
kindergarten first, second andthird.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Because there's the whole identifying process.
And so I said all that to bringup this point is that while we
may have one in every fivestudent with an IEP, those
numbers are small in thebeginning but then they, you
(31:29):
know, blow up as you get olderand things are more identified.
They, you know, blow up as youget older and things are more
identified.
So we may have a classroom with, oh, I don't know, let's just
say, 15 students with an IEP,and of those 15 students, some
of them may have behavior issuesbased on trauma.
(31:50):
We don't know, it could bebehaviors, because they just are
struggling to kind of wraptheir head around what's going
on.
I guess this kind of ties inwith trauma too.
But so now we have ready ateacher, a general education
teacher, where, at the veryleast statistically, one in five
(32:15):
of their students has an IEP.
We know that problem behavior isprevalent in students that have
an IEP, and we live in a reallyjacked up world where kids have
to experience things that theydidn't quite experience when we
(32:36):
were kids.
I mean, I can remember living inpennsylvania, uh, like from the
ages of like seven to ten, sixto ten, something like that, and
we could grab our fishing poles, walk a mile down the road to
the creek and nobody caredbecause it was like this really
tight-knit small community.
But it's not like that now.
(32:57):
There's a lot going on.
The internet has allowed accessto so many things that are
unhealthy not only for childrenbut for adults, and so we are
taking think about this.
We're taking a teacher, we'retaking a man or a woman that has
(33:18):
finished a teaching programthat has not had any extensive
special education instruction,has not had any probably minimal
psychology, right, because weall have to take a little bit of
psychology in our bachelor'sprograms.
(33:41):
But then these teachers arebeing put in these rooms with
special education children,children that have experienced
trauma in their life along withthe weight of performance, right
.
So these teachers have to getpassing grades, right?
Not a whole lot is I mean not awhole lot is addressed as far
(34:05):
as mental health.
I think especially at those atthe elementary school age and
it's like good luck, yep, figureit out, teach.
I was reading an article nottoo long ago that talked about
general education teachers andtheir willingness to and desire
(34:28):
to work with kids that havespecial needs work with kids
that have special needs.
And what they found in theirresearch is that not only did
gender or amount of years timethat a teacher was involved,
that if they receive specialtraining, if they receive
(34:52):
training in how to work withspecial education students, the
not only acceptance but desireto work with those students grew
astronomically.
It didn't matter if they were ayoung 20-something right out of
school or if they were aseasoned vet.
If they had the training, theteaching efficacy rose right,
(35:18):
their belief in what they coulddo was elevated and then they
had this desire to work withkids.
What if I'm just going to throwthis out here Us as teachers and
(35:46):
I know we're all busy us asparents, we decided that we're
not going to wait for a schoolsystem or a district to teach us
how to work with these kids.
We're not going to wait forteacher prep programs to teach
us and goodness knows as far asraising children goes you can't
go buy a book that gets it allright.
There's no guide to owner'smanual for children with
(36:06):
disabilities.
There's no owner's manuals forchildren that have experienced
trauma.
But what if, collectively, wedecided that we were going to do
research, that we were going totake the time to do whatever we
could to learn about how tolove and care and listen to
(36:27):
these children?
What do you think would happen?
Like what if we were willing,as a society, again, to not wait
for the government to save usbut, as communities, to invest
in and research and reach out tothose who we know have
(36:50):
experienced that trauma and thenbe compassionate enough to keep
our eyes and ears open To onesthat maybe others haven't seen
or identified as a child that'sexperienced trauma.
I mean, what if?
What if, like, we just startedloving people and caring about
(37:11):
people and really being what'sthe word I'm looking for
Intentional, intentional, aboutcaring about others and not
being the lead role in our ownstory.
(37:32):
Right, what can happen?
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I don't know, change lives.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
That's kind of like why we're in this thing, huh.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
So, unless you have anything else to say, this is
kind of an abrupt ending, but Idon't have anything else left.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
No, I think that there are some topics that maybe
we can cover next week and getin a little bit about the
teachers and different types oftrauma-informed care and what it
means and what the classroomsmean.
(38:09):
But I think we've got to—Ithink we did good.
I think that's enough for right.
I think we did a good.
I think that's enough for rightnow because it's a heavy topic.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, so I think we might be chit-chatting about
this trauma stuff for a while,huh.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, I think we need to revisit this next week.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
So we're going to wrap up this episode of Life in
the IEP Tribe.
If you thought this was superhorrible, I apologize.
Not really.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
We had fun.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
We had a good time and hopefully this conversation
maybe can help you or spark aninterest or at the very least,
maybe you can shoot us someideas or questions.
You can do that atlifeintheeptribe at gmailcom or
check us out on the Facebook.
That's kind of where we are.
The most is the Facebook.
Shoot us a message, askquestions, give us ideas.
(38:59):
We like all that stuff.
So until next time, I'm Jaredwith my super awesome wife,
Laura, and we'll see you later.
Bye.
well, the holidays have come and gone, we have
passed christmas and new yearsand rolling back into the school
year and working with ourstudents and it was really funny
to me that we were kind of Idon't say excited about getting
to school, but we were pumped upand ready to go.
(00:25):
And that was Tuesday and byWednesday we were like yeah,
we're tired again.
Yes, I don't think we want to,like I'm ready for another
weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Just wade back into this thing, even though we did
have Monday, to kind of get ourbearings back.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Not quite the same though.
Not quite, but that's okay likewe're in it and we're in it to
win it.
We're in no okay so anyway.
Uh, I'm pretty excited aboutwhat we're going to be talking
about this evening.
Well, it's evening while we'rerecording, because I think it's
(01:05):
something that is really easy tooverlook.
And here's something I'velearned about myself and some
things I've I kind of assumeabout others and please
understand when I say assume,that's not from the judging
standpoint, saying, oh, you dothis, but see, I know this is
(01:25):
what I do, and I like to thinkthat other people kind of view
the world the same way.
So each and every one of us, wekind of live as the main
character in our story, right,everything we see is first
person.
Everything happens around us.
We view it with our eyes, wehear it with our ears, we smell
(01:49):
it with our nose.
Right, like that's how weexperience life and the only
life we live in, that firstperson.
Everybody else is a member ofthe story that we're living in.
(02:10):
And while that I do believe isnormal and I don't think there's
anything wrong with it, I don'tknow how you change that.
Like, even if it was wrong, howin the world can you not be in
your head?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Right, I don't know.
This doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, so I think it's safe to assume that, in the same
way, other people approach lifelike that.
I believe that you, laura, areactively the main character in
your life.
Everything else you see happensaround you, but your brain is
the only brain that you see allthe time.
I mean not see all the time,that didn't even make sense, but
(02:46):
it's the one that you use.
Right, you live inside ofyourself and see everything on
the outside, and so when we livethat way, it's very easy for us
to minimize the experiences ofothers.
Right, we allow things to getto us that probably shouldn't of
others.
(03:06):
Right, we allow things to getto us that probably shouldn't
really bother us all that much,but again, the only feelings we
have are ours.
We don't feel other people's.
I mean, I know there's sympathyand empathy and all of that,
but we have no idea what it'slike living in the brain of
somebody else.
And so as we go through life,it's very easy for us to kind of
(03:27):
lack in compassion wheninteracting with others.
You know, we find ourselvesoftentimes saying well, you know
, it's really messed up thatthis person does this or this
person did that, and whilewhatever their activity may have
been and it may well have verywell been a horrible thing.
We don't know why One of thethings that we talk about I
(03:52):
don't want to say on a regularbasis because that just sounds
weird, but I know that we've hada conversation even talking
about suicide, and people havedifferent views and opinions
when it comes to that and howthey view it, and some people
get angry about it.
Others, of course, areheartbroken.
But the one thing that we haveto ask ourselves is you know
(04:14):
what happened to this person,that they came to the conclusion
that taking their own life wasthe best option?
I mean, that's crazy, right?
It's crazy to think and to tryto put ourselves in that
situation where I can look at,you know, a world full of
(04:37):
billions of people, social media, my contacts and my phone
there's so many people that Ican interact with and I come to
the conclusion that ending myown life makes the most sense.
And I think, when we start tolook at the way that people live
(05:01):
and interact and the way thatminds work, that we can learn to
have more compassion and careand look for ways to support
others and not necessarily sitback and judge and okay, well,
you know, I clearly would nevermake that choice.
(05:21):
So I'm a better person thanthem, or that's not an issue I'm
dealing with.
So it's easy for me to dogsomebody because they're in the
middle of that, and so, as I'mrambling on, you may ask the
question what does this have todo with A being a special
education teacher or B?
That's right.
(05:42):
I used A.
I put up one finger instead ofsaying one.
I have to let people know that,because they can't appreciate
it if I don't.
So, yes, I'm saying A and B andthen I'm using one and two on
my fingers.
But, you didn't say A and two,right, because that would just
(06:05):
be ridiculous.
So so what does that have to dowith being a teacher in special
education, being a, being aparent in special education,
being an administrator inspecial education, being a
parent that has a child withspecial needs, being a parent of
a child with special needs,being a parent of a child that
doesn't have special needs butmaybe goes to school with
(06:29):
friends and peers that havespecial needs?
I think, foundationally, what itmeans is that we have to learn
that, while we might be the keyperson of our story, that
there's other people livinglives and they're the key person
of our story, that there'sother people living lives and
they're the key people in theirstory, and so we need to take
(06:50):
the time to consider what mightbe going on in their lives.
And so, leading to the topic, Imean, I feel like I just ramble
and ramble and ramble, becauseI guess I kind of do and I hope,
hope it made some sense butleads us to the topic of
conversation, uh, on thisepisode being trauma-informed
(07:15):
care, or we're going to talkabout the impact of trauma in
the lives of students and andand let's see, let's just see
where that conversation goes,all right.
So, laura, what do you knowabout trauma?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, I happen to have done some studying on
trauma and the trauma-informedcare, trauma-informed practices,
informed care, trauma, informedpractices and, um, if you want
to go about a general definition, it's about the uh, the
response, both emotional andphysical, to whether it be
(07:54):
multiple events or one event oran environment that leads to
harm of an individual, harmthat's emotional, physical,
psychological, and it'stypically long-lasting and it
impacts an individual'swell-being and functionality.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
All right, so let's take that definition and kind of
paint me a picture.
What might that look like?
Like what kind of trauma mightour students experience?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Trauma is known as and we're talking about children
adverse childhood experiences.
It could be in the form ofviolence, either witnessing
violence of a loved one, orhaving physical abuse or neglect
, or caregiver, parent abuse,grandparent may die unexpectedly
(08:59):
, mental health issues of familymembers and all of these things
can impact and be consideredtrauma.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So it's not necessarily.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat it's the impact of horrific
violence, but it really has alot to do with the impact of
actions, the impact of theactions of others, the certain
(09:33):
situations and context.
That is just a little too muchfor this child to process and
understand.
I mean, let's be honest, evenas adults, we don't understand
our emotions very well, right.
There's oftentimes that we actout in ways and we don't even
(09:56):
realize the why behind it.
We don't even realize the whybehind it.
So if we were to do like alittle psychological study and
we read up on some of theinformation recorded by Bandura
Albert Bandura, one of histhings was the whole social
cognitive theory, right.
(10:16):
And the idea being that welearn our behavior based on our
experiences, right.
So if I touch a stove and it'shot, I learn touching hot things
is bad, it hurts, right.
If I decide that I'm going torun out in my drawers and it's,
(10:37):
you know, 26 degrees outside andsnow everywhere and I get cold,
I'm going to learn I need toput some clothes on, absolutely.
So we experience these thingsand they shape the way that we
view the world around us.
Now, those are silly.
I don't even call them extreme,but those impact of
(11:03):
interactions are what create theway that we see the world
around us, and so these childrenare the same way.
What they see feeds the waythat they view and interact with
the world around them.
And so, with that in mind, ifwe think about this trauma, I
mean them.
(11:25):
And so, with that in mind, ifwe think about this trauma, I
mean here's an example that isnot far-fetched and that,
unfortunately, people experiencea lot.
Kids experience a lot is thatyou know they'll have parents
that have substance abuse issuesor addictions, and these
children, under I mean no faultof their own, end up being
removed from where they live.
(11:46):
And the parents they knowwhether they totally understand
what it was that mom and or dadwas doing.
They just know that now I'm nolonger in that house and now I'm
being put into another houseand I don't know these people,
and they're going to try tointeract with each other and
(12:07):
they're going to try to functionin a family-type way.
However, they're not family.
It's like they haven't grown uptogether.
They haven't, you know, thefoster parents didn't raise them
, they didn't, they weren'tthere when they were born in
most cases.
And then you have these childrenwho I understand that mom and
dad are supposed to be the onesthat take care of me, that lead
(12:29):
me, that teach me, and now Idon't have them and I'm in
somebody else's home.
This could be an incrediblytraumatic experience, right?
So then what happens is?
The result could be a childgenuinely feeling alone, even
though they just went from onehouse to another, genuinely
feeling alone, and so, again, Ibring up that example only to
(12:54):
say that trauma isn't just onething, or two things, or three
things.
Trauma isn't just one thing ortwo things or three things.
It really has to do with howthese children are impacted by
whatever experience, right?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
What do you think?
No, I agree that it's what theyexperience and what they come
to know and, like you said,that's how we learn and how we
know how to cope.
And if they're in a situationthat the person supposed to be
(13:38):
taking care of them, the personsupposed to be taking care of
them they, you know dies, orthey abuse them, or they neglect
them or they, then they don'tthese, they don't develop those
coping skills because there'snobody to teach them that the
people that are supposed to bedoing this for you know,
sometimes reasons not of theirown choosing, but are not able
(14:02):
to provide that for these, thesechildren, and then, um, like
you said, some they're removedfrom the home and then they go
to um.
A lot of times it's astranger's house and, um, they
might not be the only childrenthere.
And so, I mean, we know thatthere are some fantastic foster
(14:25):
families out there.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Absolutely Some that we love to death.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Right, but there's also some that are not so good
that these children have dollarsigns and so that, can you know,
bring on even more trauma.
And then it impacts them injust about every part of their
being emotionally and socially,academically, behaviorally,
(14:53):
physically, mentally.
It has an impact all over,Right.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And so what we have also found and we're going to
tie something together here realquick is that research shows
that it is prevalent in studentsthat have been diagnosed with a
disability or an exceptionalityto present problematic behavior
(15:22):
.
I mean they kind of go hand inhand, not saying that every kid
that has an IEP is a problemchild.
But, what we do find is thatalong with that comes
problematic behavior.
And so what does that?
What do we do with that?
What does that look like in theschool setting?
(15:42):
Little Jommy Jommy, littleJohnny or little Jane, she is
coming to school, she has an IEPshe struggles with, I don't
know.
Let's just, let's say that sheis, we'll just use autism.
That seems to be you know a bigone, right?
We'll just use autism.
That seems to be you know a bigone, right?
(16:03):
So she already has differentways of processing and
understanding the world aroundher.
And now, on top of that, thereare things that are happening in
the home that prove to betraumatic for that child.
Again, we can't sit here andsay that it's well, they're
(16:25):
either getting beat or they're,you know, being abused in some
other way, but they'reexperiencing something,
something in the home thatemotionally psychologically,
that emotionally psychologicallyreally kind of unhinges them a
little bit.
So now we're going into theschool setting, an area that I'm
(16:54):
kind of struggling with anyway,because I do have my own
learning disabilities, and thenon top of it, I have this trauma
.
What are some things that wemight see in the school, in the
classroom?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
A lot of time that the students that have
experienced a trauma and alsohave another disability on top
of it, they have a hard timeself-regulating.
They get spun up and then theycan't just turn that off and
then sometimes they don't havethe coping skills to be able to
(17:29):
learn, you know, to calmthemselves down and they're just
typical life events.
It impacts their typical lifeevents or friends, interactions
with friends, interactions withtheir teachers.
They may, depending on what itwas that happened, they may not
trust the grownups, or they maynot trust women, or they may not
(17:51):
trust men.
It impacts their attendance.
A lot of times they're absent.
It impacts their learning,because their academics usually
(18:12):
fall, and their neurodevelopment, because those types of actions
they tend to impact their braindevelopment.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
They kind of put a strain on it.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Right, and so it can.
It just messes them up all theway around, yeah, and so there's
a it makes school hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, way harder than it needs to be needs to be.
So what we have is we have astudent that will, either will
one of two ways express thistrauma and again, not even
necessarily knowing that whatthey are doing or what they are
feeling is a product ofsomething they've experienced.
(18:56):
All they know is one of twothings either A what's going on
inside bubbles up so much to thepoint that I have to
externalize it.
Right, I've got to get this outof me.
I'm angry.
There's this feeling inside ofme that I cannot leave alone.
I remember hearing one time andthis isn't necessarily a direct
(19:16):
correlation, however it kind ofpaints a picture I was reading
an article one time about ayoung lady who was nonverbal and
she learned to communicatethrough a device.
Right, she could type out—theydidn't even know that she could
spell anything but she wouldtype out what she was feeling
(19:39):
and could communicate in thatway.
And they asked the question whyis it that you get flappy Like?
Why do you?
Why do you flap?
What is with that?
And the way that she describedit was that there's this big
ball of energy that builds upand I don't know how to get it
out, and so I flap my handsright.
So if we take that same, thatsame kind of idea, that same
(20:02):
perspective and we kind of wrapit around a child that has
experienced trauma, the samething is going to happen.
There's either A going to bethis hurt, anger.
However, it presents itself intheir body, in their mind.
That has to get out, and we seethat in the form of, you know,
(20:24):
chairs being thrown, desks beingflipped.
You know, there's a number ofthings that that that we've seen
now, and that's not suggestingthat every kid that flips a
table or a chair has some sortof trauma in their life.
However, it is one of thoseindicators, right, like there's
(20:46):
something going on inside thatthey just got to get out, and
oftentimes you won't even knowwhat triggers it.
Or, if it's not beingexternalized, it's being
internalized.
So then you end up with a childthat is either incredibly
anxious or real what's the wordI'm looking for?
(21:06):
Like real withdrawn and tothemselves.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, depressed and antisocial, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I just said, have anxiety?
Yeah, because I can't.
I don't know why I feel the wayI feel, but I'm not willing to
and allow somebody else to addon to that, because I mean
things like anxiety, and they'renot necessarily what's the word
(21:39):
I'm looking for.
They don't always make sense,right?
We have fears, and we havehealthy fears, and we have fears
that just aren't grounded inany kind of fact, right, any
factual concern.
And a child can feel thesethings, and, again, it may have
(22:02):
nothing to do with the physicalpresence.
Them being in the classroom,may not have anything to do with
the classroom whatsoever, butit has everything to do with
what has been shaping their mind, what has been shaping their
perspective.
And so, with that in mind, whatare some?
(22:24):
What are some likeresponsibilities that we, as
we'll just say, adults, whetherit's teaching, being teachers or
parents in the home, orwhatever the case may be, what
are some?
What are some responsibilitiesthat we have and how we should
(22:45):
approach a child that that mayhave experienced trauma in their
life?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I think and I think we've discussed this before the
first thing that we have to dowe have to get to know our kids
and so and then we'll know thisbehavior is typical or not
typical, or especially withsomething new, you can find out
what is going on.
And and you talked aboutempathy and have that have that
(23:15):
empathy, because we don't always, they won't always, tell us
what's happening.
So I think that if we, if weapproach them with kindness and
love and try to find out what'sgoing on before just getting
(23:41):
upset with them for presentingsome undesired behaviors, try to
understand the why behind itand because, yes, there are
behaviors, you know, hand inhand with some of these
exceptionalities.
However, there's typically areason for them.
You know, we have thoseteachers that say behavior is
(24:02):
communication, so they're tryingto tell us something.
So, as adults, it's ourresponsibility to try to figure
out what they're trying to tellus and help them to be able to
tell us what it is that's goingon.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Well, a common approach and perspective
especially if you've grown updown south is there are certain
expectations that often areplaced on children when it comes
to their interactions withadults, and I'm not saying that
(24:37):
that's wrong.
I'm not saying that we don'tteach our kids to respect adults
and respect each other andrespect themselves, but there
are cases to where sometimes, asadults, we just want them to do
what we tell them to do and actthe way that we tell them to
(25:00):
act, simply because we're theadult and they're the child.
Right keep in mind the what likewhat you're saying, the why
behind it is there.
Is there something going on?
Because if we're so quick toshut down a child's behavior
(25:25):
just by, just stop, just stopdoing it, because I'm telling
you to stop doing it, but don'ttake the time to understand the
why behind it.
Not only are we not offeringsupport, we're compounding the
problem.
So, on top of what they'refeeling, that's been formed
(25:47):
outside of the classroom, that'sbeen formed outside of the
school system, now we're goingto add on expectation to the top
of it, and so, in turn, I meanwe're placing incredible weight
upon the shoulders of thechildren, who are again
oftentimes carrying somethingwith them that was not their
(26:08):
fault, right, whatever thatexperience may have been.
And so it's important as adults, it's important as teachers,
it's important as parents this,you know that's something that I
can say that I certainly didnot earn the gold star in with
(26:29):
with the boys, and that is, youknow, I was not always a let's
kind of figure out what's goingon here.
Oftentimes it's just I don'thave time, do what I tell you to
do, right, and let's roll.
No, you know what you're actingout.
You just go sit in your room oryou go, you know whatever, and
(26:50):
just kind of push it to the sidebecause we're so stinking busy
that we just can't take the time.
Now I understand that noteverybody is a psychologist, not
everybody is a therapist.
I mean, either one of us areright.
We're special educationteachers.
Now we've read some stuff right.
(27:10):
And different articles andjournal articles and stuff like
that.
But we don't have to betherapists to understand
genuinely caring for thesestudents and what they
experience.
So we have an idea of whattrauma is and we know that we
(27:36):
need to be trauma-informed.
What do you think it is thatkeeps us from as educators, as
parents, as adults?
What do you think it is thatkeeps us from moving forward in
better understanding trauma inthe lives of these children and
(28:00):
students?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
As you started out with, is that unless we've
experienced it ourself, weprobably don't understand it.
It and so I think that there islack of a better term some
ignorance there, because it'snot natural for these children
(28:26):
to experience some of the thingsthat they experience, and so
that ignorance, you just don'tknow about it also.
So not only can you notunderstand it, there's also it's
becoming more and more talkedabout.
You hear a lot of that, youhear trauma more and more lately
, but there's still not, it'snot widely taught in schools and
(28:51):
it's not widely taught in liketeacher prep programs, and I
think that is is probably at thetop is just a lack of knowledge
and understanding.
And then that, like you weretalking about with parents, and
I'll think also with withparents and also with teachers,
(29:13):
is that that time constraint.
Okay, well, I've, I've got, Igot to teach this lesson where
I've got to do.
I don't.
I don't have time to go sit for30 minutes over here to to
figure this out, so I just needyou to sit there and be quiet.
Um, because there's so much puton responsibility to put on
these, these teachers, that onthese teachers, that they
(29:36):
oftentimes have a hard timefinding the time to build those
relationships that they need tobuild with the students and not
saying that they don't work thatin and that they don't try
their best.
But it's hard and there's somedays that they're overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Well, here's something to consider.
We know that, nationwide, 17%of all of our students that
attend public school have an IEPright, so they have either some
sort of a learning disorder orsome exceptionality that impacts
their ability to learn.
(30:16):
What we also know is that themajority of those students right
that the pool grows as you goup from preschool.
So I had the opportunity towork in an elementary school as
a collaborative specialeducation teacher and the year
(30:40):
my very first year I worked withtwo grade levels out of six and
I had more students.
There were upper grades, fourthand fifth grade, and I had more
students to serve than theteacher that worked with the
(31:02):
kindergarten first, second andthird.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Because there's the whole identifying process.
And so I said all that to bringup this point is that while we
may have one in every fivestudent with an IEP, those
numbers are small in thebeginning but then they, you
(31:29):
know, blow up as you get olderand things are more identified.
They, you know, blow up as youget older and things are more
identified.
So we may have a classroom with, oh, I don't know, let's just
say, 15 students with an IEP,and of those 15 students, some
of them may have behavior issuesbased on trauma.
(31:50):
We don't know, it could bebehaviors, because they just are
struggling to kind of wraptheir head around what's going
on.
I guess this kind of ties inwith trauma too.
But so now we have ready ateacher, a general education
teacher, where, at the veryleast statistically, one in five
(32:15):
of their students has an IEP.
We know that problem behavior isprevalent in students that have
an IEP, and we live in a reallyjacked up world where kids have
to experience things that theydidn't quite experience when we
(32:36):
were kids.
I mean, I can remember living inpennsylvania, uh, like from the
ages of like seven to ten, sixto ten, something like that, and
we could grab our fishing poles, walk a mile down the road to
the creek and nobody caredbecause it was like this really
tight-knit small community.
But it's not like that now.
(32:57):
There's a lot going on.
The internet has allowed accessto so many things that are
unhealthy not only for childrenbut for adults, and so we are
taking think about this.
We're taking a teacher, we'retaking a man or a woman that has
(33:18):
finished a teaching programthat has not had any extensive
special education instruction,has not had any probably minimal
psychology, right, because weall have to take a little bit of
psychology in our bachelor'sprograms.
(33:41):
But then these teachers arebeing put in these rooms with
special education children,children that have experienced
trauma in their life along withthe weight of performance, right
.
So these teachers have to getpassing grades, right?
Not a whole lot is I mean not awhole lot is addressed as far
(34:05):
as mental health.
I think especially at those atthe elementary school age and
it's like good luck, yep, figureit out, teach.
I was reading an article nottoo long ago that talked about
general education teachers andtheir willingness to and desire
(34:28):
to work with kids that havespecial needs work with kids
that have special needs.
And what they found in theirresearch is that not only did
gender or amount of years timethat a teacher was involved,
that if they receive specialtraining, if they receive
(34:52):
training in how to work withspecial education students, the
not only acceptance but desireto work with those students grew
astronomically.
It didn't matter if they were ayoung 20-something right out of
school or if they were aseasoned vet.
If they had the training, theteaching efficacy rose right,
(35:18):
their belief in what they coulddo was elevated and then they
had this desire to work withkids.
What if I'm just going to throwthis out here Us as teachers and
(35:46):
I know we're all busy us asparents, we decided that we're
not going to wait for a schoolsystem or a district to teach us
how to work with these kids.
We're not going to wait forteacher prep programs to teach
us and goodness knows as far asraising children goes you can't
go buy a book that gets it allright.
There's no guide to owner'smanual for children with
(36:06):
disabilities.
There's no owner's manuals forchildren that have experienced
trauma.
But what if, collectively, wedecided that we were going to do
research, that we were going totake the time to do whatever we
could to learn about how tolove and care and listen to
(36:27):
these children?
What do you think would happen?
Like what if we were willing,as a society, again, to not wait
for the government to save usbut, as communities, to invest
in and research and reach out tothose who we know have
(36:50):
experienced that trauma and thenbe compassionate enough to keep
our eyes and ears open To onesthat maybe others haven't seen
or identified as a child that'sexperienced trauma.
I mean, what if?
What if, like, we just startedloving people and caring about
(37:11):
people and really being what'sthe word I'm looking for
Intentional, intentional, aboutcaring about others and not
being the lead role in our ownstory.
(37:32):
Right, what can happen?
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I don't know, change lives.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
That's kind of like why we're in this thing, huh.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
So, unless you have anything else to say, this is
kind of an abrupt ending, but Idon't have anything else left.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
No, I think that there are some topics that maybe
we can cover next week and getin a little bit about the
teachers and different types oftrauma-informed care and what it
means and what the classroomsmean.
(38:09):
But I think we've got to—Ithink we did good.
I think that's enough for right.
I think we did a good.
I think that's enough for rightnow because it's a heavy topic.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, so I think we might be chit-chatting about
this trauma stuff for a while,huh.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, I think we need to revisit this next week.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
So we're going to wrap up this episode of Life in
the IEP Tribe.
If you thought this was superhorrible, I apologize.
Not really.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
We had fun.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
We had a good time and hopefully this conversation
maybe can help you or spark aninterest or at the very least,
maybe you can shoot us someideas or questions.
You can do that atlifeintheeptribe at gmailcom or
check us out on the Facebook.
That's kind of where we are.
The most is the Facebook.
Shoot us a message, askquestions, give us ideas.
(38:59):
We like all that stuff.
So until next time, I'm Jaredwith my super awesome wife,
Laura, and we'll see you later.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.