March 29, 2025 • 30 mins
What happens when a grandmother recognizes the signs of autism in her grandchild before anyone else? Robin Curtis, a veteran educator and children's ministry leader, shares her powerful journey of supporting her grandson Xander through his autism diagnosis and development.
The conversation reveals the delicate balance of approaching parents with concerns about their child's development - a moment Robin describes as "one of the hardest conversations I've ever had." Her story illuminates how that difficult conversation sparked a transformative journey for her grandson and entire family.
Robin's professional background working with special needs children gives her unique insight into both sides of the special education equation. She highlights communication breakdowns between parents and teachers as one of the biggest challenges in supporting children effectively. "I don't think you can communicate too much," she emphasizes, noting how collaboration between home and school creates consistency that helps children thrive.
Perhaps most moving is Robin's account of Xander's remarkable progress - from a child who wouldn't eat, make eye contact, or sit still to a young man who now does his own laundry, independently attends youth activities, and engages socially with peers. Her perspective on seeing beyond labels to understand the child's unique viewpoint offers practical wisdom for parents and educators alike.
Throughout the conversation, Robin weaves in her faith perspective, speaking to how understanding God's unconditional love shapes her approach to children with special needs. "Children are so special to Him," she explains, highlighting how this foundation of grace informs her interactions with young people.
Have you noticed concerning behaviors in a child you love? This episode provides compassionate guidance for having those difficult conversations and building the village of support every child needs to reach their full potential.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
laura, yes, we got another episode and I'm super
excited about this episode.
So here's the thing this is our17th episode since we started
doing all of this and we've hada lot of fun.
I mean, you and I have had someconversations by ourselves.
We have invited otherconversations, conversational
(00:33):
lists, into the fold.
Sure, did it communicate?
I think it communicated.
I think it'll work, um, andthey've been really great,
really great guests and somegreat conversations from.
I mean, we've talked toteachers and we've talked to
paras and we've talked toparents, but today we get the
(00:57):
coolest one.
It's my mom.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited to have mymother with us today, because my
mom has a really neat andunique perspective when it comes
to things like conversationsabout IEPs and special needs,
(01:19):
because she has she has servedchildren and families in so many
ways over the years that notonly has she worked with
students that have special needs, not only does she have friends
that have kids that havespecial needs, but she's also
Xander's grandma or Grammy.
Grammy, make sure I say it right, and so she has again an awful
(01:43):
lot to bring to thisconversation, and so I think we
should just go ahead and getstarted, all right, but before
we do, you see what I do rightthere, there's like a fake out.
I just want to say one quickthing, and then we're going to
keep rolling with.
This is that Laura and I havebeen having some conversations
and discussions about setting upsome special events for people
(02:10):
who would want to be members,and we'll explain that more
later on.
But what I can say is belooking out for some really cool
stuff.
Like, we've got some ideas.
Now we're not taking anybody tolike Bermuda or anything like
that, but yes, we have someother ideas.
So now I'm going to stoprunning my mouth and I'm going
(02:33):
to hand over the microphone tolike my other favorite lady in
the whole world, my wife, and goahead, laura.
Introduce my mom.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Introdu mom introduce your mom.
How am I supposed to introduceyour mom?
So, so, as you said, we haveyour mom.
This is robin curtis, and, um,and uh, robin's had, uh, like
you said, just a vast amount ofexperience and uh, working with
the kids with special needs orfamilies with who have children
(03:09):
with special needs, and, otherthan being the best
mother-in-law, she's just a, Imean, she's just, she has a
wealth of information that sheprobably doesn't even know she
has.
So I think we'll just, you know, just jump right in.
And so, robin, we talked aboutyour titles that you've had, and
(03:31):
it makes me think of the hatbook.
I know that's one of your andJared's favorite books, the hat.
So why don't you tell us someof the hats that you have worn,
as when dealing with kids andothers with special needs?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Well, first I want to say thank you for asking me to
do this, and I feel very honoredwhen dealing with kids and
others with special needs.
Well, first I want to say thankyou for asking me to do this
and I feel very honored and kindof scared, but I will just jump
right in and do my best,because I'm old.
I've done quite a few things.
Quite a few things, I think,probably going back to when
(04:12):
Jared and Jonathan and Jessicawere in school.
I was in.
They went to a private schooland so to help pay the tuition,
I worked in a classroom as aclassroom monitor, and then I
also I was the children'sministry director at the church,
which through that I workedwith a lot of families, and then
(04:32):
I was a co-founder of apreschool.
A friend of mine, god gave herthe vision to start a preschool
and asked me to come along forthe ride me to come along for
the ride.
So I was involved in that.
(04:53):
I worked in the Camden Countyschool system for approximately
four years.
I worked in the SPED departmentfor about three and a half
years I think maybe four andthen a half a year in a gen ed
kindergarten class.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And she was one of the best SPED parents that I've
had, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
We've got five fantastic sped pairs.
I'm not taking away fromanything then, but you know
you're fantastic to work with.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Until I ran her off and made her retire.
I was that retirement age.
You were my favorite teacher towork with.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I'm glad that you didn't work with me, mom,
because if so, that would havereally hurt.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Oh well.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Oh well, she says oh well, oh well, so I didn't work
with you.
Oh well, she says oh well, ohwell, I didn't work with you.
Oh okay, so you did work withme and still picked Laura as
your favorite.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I didn't, I didn't work with you.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I saw you in the lunchroom.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yes, that's true, and I was very impressed.
Oh well, thank you.
My mom says I'm great at lunchduty no both of you are.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I'm so proud of both of you.
I see how you work together andy'all are amazing.
I'm so proud of you.
You both are very gifted andyou really love those kids and
it is so evident.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And we didn't have to pay her to say that.
No, and I mean it evident,thank you, and we didn't have to
pay her to say that.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
No, and I mean it with all my heart.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So, mom, I know we've say mascot, but I feel bad
saying that of this wholeconversation because you know,
outside of education and workingin the school system, he's a
huge part of our understandingon how children with special
needs operate and things to lookfor and so on and so forth.
But I remember a time,specifically before Xander was
(07:05):
ever even diagnosed, and Iremember you coming to me and
saying you know, jared, I reallythink there's some concern here
, some help that he may need,and really was instrumental in
that initial push to get Xanderhelp.
(07:27):
Can you talk to us a little bitabout that time and what you
remember seeing?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Sure, that was one of the hardest conversations I've
ever had, especially when I sawhow it affected you to hear that
, that I felt like there was uma need in your child's life.
And but I, he was.
(07:57):
I think he was in preschoolwhen I started.
He wasn't.
I guess he was about three whenI just started noticing things
like he wasn't um, he wasn'thaving eye contact.
He was super, extremely, um,hyper, very hyper, um.
(08:19):
Of course he wouldn't eat.
That was.
I can remember talking to dadabout that and crying, saying
how is he going to survive?
He was licking the spices offof Doritos and drinking
PediaSure, yeah, that was it.
And I was just so concerned.
(08:40):
I can remember his birthday,you know this.
I'm not sure what year it was,but I can remember.
You know how I'm thinking itmust have been his first
birthday, because we put thebirthday cake on his tray and
all the kids you know howusually not all the time, but
(09:00):
most kids will just stick theirhands in it and, you know just
make a mess.
Well, xander was different.
Even then it might not havebeen his first birthday, but I
can remember he didn't wantanything to do it.
He was almost like repulsed bythe thought of putting his hands
(09:21):
in that.
You know I forgot about thatputting his hands in that, you
know, and I forgot about that,yeah, and, and I thought about
that later because that wasearly in his life, but there was
just things it, it just didn't.
Um, that seemed like there wassomething wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, and I and I know that those aren't easy
conversations, um conversationsto have.
So if and I know this is kindof a big one, but if there is a
parent, a grandparent orsomebody that is listening to
this and they recognize somethings in a child, a grandchild,
(10:01):
a friend's child, a familymember, do you have any advice
on how to approach thatconversation with the parent?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well, I can only share how I approached you and I
.
You had come over and I I askedyou to please sit down, um, and
I was, I was upset, I mean itwasn't easy and um, and I just
said to you I, you know, I I'mnot, I'm not a doctor, I don't
(10:37):
but as a grandparent, I havesome concerns and I just want to
share them with you and um, andit is, it's so hard, but, like
you said, that conversation didstart the wheels rolling.
(10:57):
I mean, it's hard for anyparents and I know, in working
with children, I know thatthere's been times when teachers
have expressed concerns about achild and the parent just
doesn't want to hear that.
You know it's so hard.
They don't want to think thatthere might be something wrong.
(11:18):
You know that their child has achallenge.
But I think, coming from agrandparent or you know someone
in the family that sees it andloves that and, you know,
expresses that concern, I thinkthat can really help.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I agree 100% and I and I know it is.
It's nobody.
Nobody wants to hear thatthere's certain things that
their child will not experiencein life, right, and some things
that come with that.
But you know I'm eternallygrateful for you and for Dad,
and you know the support of ourfamily.
(12:00):
This would have been a muchharder trek trying to do it
alone, and for that I can't evencome close to thanking you
enough.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Oh well, it is our pleasure.
We love Xander, you know that.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I know he he loves going to Grammy and pause, and
that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Now, now, more pause.
I think the kids like me whenthey're younger, but when they
get older, then they're pause.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
For a little bit.
Then they'll be back to Grammy,but watching the journey that
he's been on and you guys havecertainly been a huge part of
that and a huge support for usand for Xander so can you talk a
little bit about, like, whatinsights you've gained by
(12:53):
watching the challenges and thetriumphs that, as a family,
we've all faced with Xander?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Oh, my Xander is a success story.
I hope that doesn't sound bad.
It is amazing how far Xanderhas come.
He was a little kid whowouldn't eat there, was hardly.
(13:28):
I mean, he was very hard tocontrol.
Was hardly, I mean, he was veryhard to control.
And the thing is is once he gothis diagnosis, it's like he had
us I'll say us, meaning me andgrandpa wrapped around his
little finger because we thought, oh poor Xander, he doesn't, he
(13:48):
has autism, he doesn't knowwhat he's doing.
Xander, he doesn't, he hasautism, he doesn't know what
he's doing.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
You know, oh, he knew , he knew he had a fracture.
He didn't understand.
He didn't know any better.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
It was something I mean.
Jared has shared how he wouldbring him on family trips and
would have to go home becauseXander was so hard to keep near
us, you know, and so until wewent on a camping trip I think
it was the first camping tripthat we went on when Laura
(14:24):
joined our family.
Would you like me to share that?
Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, xander had us wrapped around his little finger
, we had gone camping and wewere all getting ready to leave
the camper and Xander was toldto put his shoes on.
And Xander didn't want to puthis shoes on and he was refusing
.
And finally Laura just verypolitely and nicely said well,
(14:52):
everyone, please leave thecamper and just leave Xander by
herself.
And so we did and we satoutside on the picnic table for,
I would say, about 20 minutes,laura, maybe, maybe 30.
But we would hear shoes hittingup against the door and you
(15:14):
know, and I could tell byLaura's voice, she had her back
up against the door, so Xandercouldn't get out.
And all of a sudden the dooropened and Xander had his shoes
on and he walked out.
And that's when Paul and I knewthis kid knows.
This kid knows what he, youknow.
And it's been amazing, throughthe two of you raising Xander,
(15:39):
what he is today.
He went from some child thatwas so hard to control to now we
can take him to youth group andhe gets out of the car, he
walks into the youth group, heknows to get his headphones, he
enjoys his friends.
It's his people, you know.
(16:01):
And, and it's just amazing, hedidn't eat.
He didn't eat until he was what?
Five years old.
Now, when he comes to my house,I have have to make sure I have
Dr Pepper Doritos and he doeshis own laundry.
He's the only one of mygrandkids that will put dishes
(16:23):
in the dishwasher.
This kid is amazing and I knowit's because God has gifted
y'all to work with him.
And it's amazing what thisyoung man is.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I've definitely had a lot of help along the way.
And talking about him being allover the place, we were just
telling the story the other dayabout how he had us snowed at
first too, because we didn'tthink that Xander could sit down
and attend to any tasks untilhe went to an award ceremony and
the little booger sat there for30 minutes on crisscross
(16:58):
applesauce in third gradelistening to an award ceremony,
and so you know we've talkedabout needing that tribe.
So either we had the teachersokay, what are you doing?
Same with getting him to eat atworking with the teachers.
What are you doing?
Same with getting him to eatworking with the teachers?
What are you feeding him atschool?
So we can feed him at home andlet's that first christmas break
(17:19):
.
No, we got to keep this going.
And um and just and you know,john and michelle, that michelle
, just so you know, took him onand when he was in elementary
school to be able to be part ofthe church services and that's
gone on to, like you said now,the youth group.
Now he just drop him off and hegoes when.
(17:40):
Before we had to assign ateenager that was quick enough
to chase him around the church.
So yeah, we've definitely been.
You know a bunch of us.
It takes a village, doesn't it?
It does.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
That's for sure.
Well, I'm so grateful thaty'all have had that village.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So we were just having the conversation the
other day of oh man, the storyjust left my head, Uh-oh, what
was I about to say?
It was a good story too.
Oh well, if it comes back to me, I'll bring it back up.
Okay, so let's see, we got someother questions here.
(18:24):
Oh, this one right here.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
The second part.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh, okay.
So with your time again, withyour time in the school system
and, of course, working withfamily members and so on, what
are some things that you thinkschools could possibly do better
to support students andfamilies?
(18:50):
And now there's.
No, don't worry, you're notgoing to make anybody mad
because we're not attackinganyone.
But what ideas?
What are some things that youthink might would be, at the
very least, a good thing toconsider when working with
families of children withspecial needs?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I think what I see some breakdowns sometime is
communication, communicationbetween the parent, the teacher
to the parent, the parent to theteacher, even the teacher to
the counselor.
I think it is so important tohave good communication on
(19:30):
what's going on.
I don't think you cancommunicate too much on that.
I think working what I'vewitnessed and this is sad to say
, but a lot of times, especiallybefore a diagnosis if a child
comes in with special needs butthey haven't gotten a diagnosis,
(19:51):
if a child comes in withspecial needs but they haven't
gotten a diagnosis, they justare considered having behavioral
problems and I've witnessedkids almost being labeled and
that's so sad.
At one time an educator askedme if I would come in and
(20:16):
observe a child and it didn'ttake me too long to see that
this child had been labeled.
I could tell by the way thechildren were talking to this
kid.
It's like they were justrepeating what they heard their
parents say.
You know to this kid and I toldthe educator.
(20:37):
I said I really believe thatthis little guy has been labeled
and I'm afraid that happens alot and it helps so much when
there is a diagnosis becauseit's like people have more
patience with kids when there'sa diagnosis Later on in watching
(21:01):
this child.
That's another thing, especiallynowadays because the classrooms
are so large.
But to really watch the kidsand learn the kids, because the
same little kid I was in aclassroom with him like two
years later and I learned thatthis little kid, he just wanted
(21:24):
to be respected.
If someone would take a toyfrom him he would haul off and
hit him.
But if I would have the otherchild say, why don't you go ask
him if you can play with thattoy?
That little kid would just handthe toy over.
It's just he wanted to berespected.
(21:46):
He didn't want people, you know, taking things from them and
everything.
And I think if we, if theteachers and even the parents,
can really watch the kids andlearn how to help them, does
that make sense.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Absolutely so.
I mean, it really iscounterintuitive.
What you're talking about iscounterintuitive to us as
parents and as adults, where,you know, a lot of times we want
kids to just do what we tellthem to do, instead of let's
(22:21):
learn the child, let's learntheir thought process and their
perspective.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
And sometimes that's hard because it's almost you
almost feel like, well, if theydon't do what I'm saying, I'm
losing control.
And that's not it at all.
You need to learn that child,because they each learn
differently and they, you know,things look different to
different kids.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Absolutely, Because you know all of their, all of
their interactions, all of theirexperiences shape their
perspective on how they view theworld around them and we don't
know all of those experiencesand what has happened in their
lives.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, like you've said, jared, that we live in our
own head, we only know what weknow, we have only experienced
what we've experienced, and sowe don't know what they're
necessarily going through.
I mean, we can try tosympathize, we can try to
empathize, but it's differentand everybody has their own
perspective based on whatthey've been through.
(23:23):
And some of these little guysand gals have been through so
much that, as children, I don'tknow if any of us would have
been able to go through it.
They're dealing with so muchthese days.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And communicating with the parent too, the teacher
communicating with the parent,the parent communicating with
the teacher.
You're learning this childtogether.
You're helping, you know, toshape this child in the way he
should go, you know, or she?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Right, because we know that we've in conversations
we've had with parents, youknow, sometimes we'll say
so-and-so, you know.
So we celebrate some victories,oh, so they're doing this,
they'll sit down in the chairfor you.
Well, absolutely.
But then there's also timesthat we say, well, we're seeing
this like.
Oh well, we don't see this athome.
(24:19):
And so, having theseconversations, we can say so,
what have you tried?
Or we can say, well, we triedthis, and so that definitely is
is is key, is that that constantcommunication, yes and honest
because we don't be honest aboutbecause we don't be honest
about it.
We don't judge, we just want tohelp your kid.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Right, all right, mom , I've got one more question.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
And this is a big one .
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
No, not really it is a big one, but it's one that I
know you will not have anyissues answering whatsoever.
So anybody that knows me evenhalf decently knows that my dad
is a pastor and has been a localpastor here.
For golly, what's it been?
40 years.
Does that sound right?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Close to it.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, and he's been doing the pastor thing and
the preacher thing and you'vebeen by his side.
So what I do know is this Oneof the really great things and I
think also one of the scarythings about being the child of
a preacher is that your childrencan rat you out.
(25:33):
If you are not the real deal,they can burn you down.
What I can say is that myparents are the real deal.
Oh, thank you dear what you hearpreached and shared on Sunday.
They live that life.
It's real to them.
So, mom, tell me, how would youdescribe to anyone listening
(25:57):
the impact that God has had onyour perspective when it comes
to working with children andfamilies?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Oh, my Children are so special to Him, you know so
special to Him and special tohim.
You know so special to him.
And um, well, jared, you saidthat wasn't going to be a hard
question.
I think you know, just knowing,knowing Christ and um, and what
(26:27):
he's done for me, um, the graceand the mercy he has shown me
personally, that has helped meto show grace and mercy to
adults, but also to these littlekids who they're being, they're
(26:50):
, they're growing and they'rebeing molded and shaped and, um,
they are so special to God.
I just want to, I just want tolove them, um, I want to show
them unconditional love, justlike God has shown, shown me
(27:17):
love just like God has shown me.
And there's nothing greaterthan watching, because, being in
the preschool, I have seenchildren grow up and they have
children now themselves, whichis really wild.
And it's so awesome to see thatwhat God has allowed me to pour
into children's lives.
They have grown and they'repouring the love of Christ and
(27:43):
godly principles into theirchildren's lives and there's
just, I don't think there's anygreater reward than that.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I love you Mom.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I love you, mom.
I love you, but I was afraid Iwas going to start crying there.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Don't worry, we already have a couple of times
on this side of the table.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
But it is.
It's such a privilege to beable to work with kids and you
know, I really didn't plan on it.
I really didn't plan on workingwith children and that's been
my heart and really my callthrough my whole life.
Even now I'm still working withchildren and working with
(28:31):
families who have special needschildren and that's just a call
that God's put in my heart andmy life and he's equipped me,
he's equipped my heart for thatand I just, I love watching you
and Laura just pour your heartsinto kids and their families.
(28:53):
Y'all have a ministry.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I know Jared's often told people that you are a
teacher who never had their ownclassroom per se, you know, and
that it's definitely true.
To watch you with the kids isreally you're a natural and you
just it just comes, you come byit and you just you know what
(29:17):
they need.
And um yeah, it's, it's reallycool.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Thanks, all right, mom.
Well, I think we're going towrap this up.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Well, y'all were pretty nice, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
We try our best.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I was a little scared .
Well, we're pretty nice.
Thank you, we try our best.
I was so scared.
Well, we're glad you agreed toit.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Well, thank you, and again, I'm I'm honored that you
would even ask me when they.
When you first asked me, it waslike why do I have to offer?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Well, now, everybody knows Well, thank you.
All right, mom, we'll talk toyou later.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Y'all get some rest.
Bye, bye.
laura, yes, we got another episode and I'm super
excited about this episode.
So here's the thing this is our17th episode since we started
doing all of this and we've hada lot of fun.
I mean, you and I have had someconversations by ourselves.
We have invited otherconversations, conversational
(00:33):
lists, into the fold.
Sure, did it communicate?
I think it communicated.
I think it'll work, um, andthey've been really great,
really great guests and somegreat conversations from.
I mean, we've talked toteachers and we've talked to
paras and we've talked toparents, but today we get the
(00:57):
coolest one.
It's my mom.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited to have mymother with us today, because my
mom has a really neat andunique perspective when it comes
to things like conversationsabout IEPs and special needs,
(01:19):
because she has she has servedchildren and families in so many
ways over the years that notonly has she worked with
students that have special needs, not only does she have friends
that have kids that havespecial needs, but she's also
Xander's grandma or Grammy.
Grammy, make sure I say it right, and so she has again an awful
(01:43):
lot to bring to thisconversation, and so I think we
should just go ahead and getstarted, all right, but before
we do, you see what I do rightthere, there's like a fake out.
I just want to say one quickthing, and then we're going to
keep rolling with.
This is that Laura and I havebeen having some conversations
and discussions about setting upsome special events for people
(02:10):
who would want to be members,and we'll explain that more
later on.
But what I can say is belooking out for some really cool
stuff.
Like, we've got some ideas.
Now we're not taking anybody tolike Bermuda or anything like
that, but yes, we have someother ideas.
So now I'm going to stoprunning my mouth and I'm going
(02:33):
to hand over the microphone tolike my other favorite lady in
the whole world, my wife, and goahead, laura.
Introduce my mom.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Introdu mom introduce your mom.
How am I supposed to introduceyour mom?
So, so, as you said, we haveyour mom.
This is robin curtis, and, um,and uh, robin's had, uh, like
you said, just a vast amount ofexperience and uh, working with
the kids with special needs orfamilies with who have children
(03:09):
with special needs, and, otherthan being the best
mother-in-law, she's just a, Imean, she's just, she has a
wealth of information that sheprobably doesn't even know she
has.
So I think we'll just, you know, just jump right in.
And so, robin, we talked aboutyour titles that you've had, and
(03:31):
it makes me think of the hatbook.
I know that's one of your andJared's favorite books, the hat.
So why don't you tell us someof the hats that you have worn,
as when dealing with kids andothers with special needs?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Well, first I want to say thank you for asking me to
do this, and I feel very honoredwhen dealing with kids and
others with special needs.
Well, first I want to say thankyou for asking me to do this
and I feel very honored and kindof scared, but I will just jump
right in and do my best,because I'm old.
I've done quite a few things.
Quite a few things, I think,probably going back to when
(04:12):
Jared and Jonathan and Jessicawere in school.
I was in.
They went to a private schooland so to help pay the tuition,
I worked in a classroom as aclassroom monitor, and then I
also I was the children'sministry director at the church,
which through that I workedwith a lot of families, and then
(04:32):
I was a co-founder of apreschool.
A friend of mine, god gave herthe vision to start a preschool
and asked me to come along forthe ride me to come along for
the ride.
So I was involved in that.
(04:53):
I worked in the Camden Countyschool system for approximately
four years.
I worked in the SPED departmentfor about three and a half
years I think maybe four andthen a half a year in a gen ed
kindergarten class.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And she was one of the best SPED parents that I've
had, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
We've got five fantastic sped pairs.
I'm not taking away fromanything then, but you know
you're fantastic to work with.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Until I ran her off and made her retire.
I was that retirement age.
You were my favorite teacher towork with.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I'm glad that you didn't work with me, mom,
because if so, that would havereally hurt.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Oh well.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Oh well, she says oh well, oh well, so I didn't work
with you.
Oh well, she says oh well, ohwell, I didn't work with you.
Oh okay, so you did work withme and still picked Laura as
your favorite.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I didn't, I didn't work with you.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I saw you in the lunchroom.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yes, that's true, and I was very impressed.
Oh well, thank you.
My mom says I'm great at lunchduty no both of you are.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I'm so proud of both of you.
I see how you work together andy'all are amazing.
I'm so proud of you.
You both are very gifted andyou really love those kids and
it is so evident.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And we didn't have to pay her to say that.
No, and I mean it evident,thank you, and we didn't have to
pay her to say that.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
No, and I mean it with all my heart.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
So, mom, I know we've say mascot, but I feel bad
saying that of this wholeconversation because you know,
outside of education and workingin the school system, he's a
huge part of our understandingon how children with special
needs operate and things to lookfor and so on and so forth.
But I remember a time,specifically before Xander was
(07:05):
ever even diagnosed, and Iremember you coming to me and
saying you know, jared, I reallythink there's some concern here
, some help that he may need,and really was instrumental in
that initial push to get Xanderhelp.
(07:27):
Can you talk to us a little bitabout that time and what you
remember seeing?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Sure, that was one of the hardest conversations I've
ever had, especially when I sawhow it affected you to hear that
, that I felt like there was uma need in your child's life.
And but I, he was.
(07:57):
I think he was in preschoolwhen I started.
He wasn't.
I guess he was about three whenI just started noticing things
like he wasn't um, he wasn'thaving eye contact.
He was super, extremely, um,hyper, very hyper, um.
(08:19):
Of course he wouldn't eat.
That was.
I can remember talking to dadabout that and crying, saying
how is he going to survive?
He was licking the spices offof Doritos and drinking
PediaSure, yeah, that was it.
And I was just so concerned.
(08:40):
I can remember his birthday,you know this.
I'm not sure what year it was,but I can remember.
You know how I'm thinking itmust have been his first
birthday, because we put thebirthday cake on his tray and
all the kids you know howusually not all the time, but
(09:00):
most kids will just stick theirhands in it and, you know just
make a mess.
Well, xander was different.
Even then it might not havebeen his first birthday, but I
can remember he didn't wantanything to do it.
He was almost like repulsed bythe thought of putting his hands
(09:21):
in that.
You know I forgot about thatputting his hands in that, you
know, and I forgot about that,yeah, and, and I thought about
that later because that wasearly in his life, but there was
just things it, it just didn't.
Um, that seemed like there wassomething wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, and I and I know that those aren't easy
conversations, um conversationsto have.
So if and I know this is kindof a big one, but if there is a
parent, a grandparent orsomebody that is listening to
this and they recognize somethings in a child, a grandchild,
(10:01):
a friend's child, a familymember, do you have any advice
on how to approach thatconversation with the parent?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Well, I can only share how I approached you and I
.
You had come over and I I askedyou to please sit down, um, and
I was, I was upset, I mean itwasn't easy and um, and I just
said to you I, you know, I I'mnot, I'm not a doctor, I don't
(10:37):
but as a grandparent, I havesome concerns and I just want to
share them with you and um, andit is, it's so hard, but, like
you said, that conversation didstart the wheels rolling.
(10:57):
I mean, it's hard for anyparents and I know, in working
with children, I know thatthere's been times when teachers
have expressed concerns about achild and the parent just
doesn't want to hear that.
You know it's so hard.
They don't want to think thatthere might be something wrong.
(11:18):
You know that their child has achallenge.
But I think, coming from agrandparent or you know someone
in the family that sees it andloves that and, you know,
expresses that concern, I thinkthat can really help.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I agree 100% and I and I know it is.
It's nobody.
Nobody wants to hear thatthere's certain things that
their child will not experiencein life, right, and some things
that come with that.
But you know I'm eternallygrateful for you and for Dad,
and you know the support of ourfamily.
(12:00):
This would have been a muchharder trek trying to do it
alone, and for that I can't evencome close to thanking you
enough.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Oh well, it is our pleasure.
We love Xander, you know that.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I know he he loves going to Grammy and pause, and
that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Now, now, more pause.
I think the kids like me whenthey're younger, but when they
get older, then they're pause.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
For a little bit.
Then they'll be back to Grammy,but watching the journey that
he's been on and you guys havecertainly been a huge part of
that and a huge support for usand for Xander so can you talk a
little bit about, like, whatinsights you've gained by
(12:53):
watching the challenges and thetriumphs that, as a family,
we've all faced with Xander?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Oh, my Xander is a success story.
I hope that doesn't sound bad.
It is amazing how far Xanderhas come.
He was a little kid whowouldn't eat there, was hardly.
(13:28):
I mean, he was very hard tocontrol.
Was hardly, I mean, he was veryhard to control.
And the thing is is once he gothis diagnosis, it's like he had
us I'll say us, meaning me andgrandpa wrapped around his
little finger because we thought, oh poor Xander, he doesn't, he
(13:48):
has autism, he doesn't knowwhat he's doing.
Xander, he doesn't, he hasautism, he doesn't know what
he's doing.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
You know, oh, he knew , he knew he had a fracture.
He didn't understand.
He didn't know any better.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
It was something I mean.
Jared has shared how he wouldbring him on family trips and
would have to go home becauseXander was so hard to keep near
us, you know, and so until wewent on a camping trip I think
it was the first camping tripthat we went on when Laura
(14:24):
joined our family.
Would you like me to share that?
Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, xander had us wrapped around his little finger
, we had gone camping and wewere all getting ready to leave
the camper and Xander was toldto put his shoes on.
And Xander didn't want to puthis shoes on and he was refusing
.
And finally Laura just verypolitely and nicely said well,
(14:52):
everyone, please leave thecamper and just leave Xander by
herself.
And so we did and we satoutside on the picnic table for,
I would say, about 20 minutes,laura, maybe, maybe 30.
But we would hear shoes hittingup against the door and you
(15:14):
know, and I could tell byLaura's voice, she had her back
up against the door, so Xandercouldn't get out.
And all of a sudden the dooropened and Xander had his shoes
on and he walked out.
And that's when Paul and I knewthis kid knows.
This kid knows what he, youknow.
And it's been amazing, throughthe two of you raising Xander,
(15:39):
what he is today.
He went from some child thatwas so hard to control to now we
can take him to youth group andhe gets out of the car, he
walks into the youth group, heknows to get his headphones, he
enjoys his friends.
It's his people, you know.
(16:01):
And, and it's just amazing, hedidn't eat.
He didn't eat until he was what?
Five years old.
Now, when he comes to my house,I have have to make sure I have
Dr Pepper Doritos and he doeshis own laundry.
He's the only one of mygrandkids that will put dishes
(16:23):
in the dishwasher.
This kid is amazing and I knowit's because God has gifted
y'all to work with him.
And it's amazing what thisyoung man is.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I've definitely had a lot of help along the way.
And talking about him being allover the place, we were just
telling the story the other dayabout how he had us snowed at
first too, because we didn'tthink that Xander could sit down
and attend to any tasks untilhe went to an award ceremony and
the little booger sat there for30 minutes on crisscross
(16:58):
applesauce in third gradelistening to an award ceremony,
and so you know we've talkedabout needing that tribe.
So either we had the teachersokay, what are you doing?
Same with getting him to eat atworking with the teachers.
What are you doing?
Same with getting him to eatworking with the teachers?
What are you feeding him atschool?
So we can feed him at home andlet's that first christmas break
(17:19):
.
No, we got to keep this going.
And um and just and you know,john and michelle, that michelle
, just so you know, took him onand when he was in elementary
school to be able to be part ofthe church services and that's
gone on to, like you said now,the youth group.
Now he just drop him off and hegoes when.
(17:40):
Before we had to assign ateenager that was quick enough
to chase him around the church.
So yeah, we've definitely been.
You know a bunch of us.
It takes a village, doesn't it?
It does.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
That's for sure.
Well, I'm so grateful thaty'all have had that village.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So we were just having the conversation the
other day of oh man, the storyjust left my head, Uh-oh, what
was I about to say?
It was a good story too.
Oh well, if it comes back to me, I'll bring it back up.
Okay, so let's see, we got someother questions here.
(18:24):
Oh, this one right here.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
The second part.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh, okay.
So with your time again, withyour time in the school system
and, of course, working withfamily members and so on, what
are some things that you thinkschools could possibly do better
to support students andfamilies?
(18:50):
And now there's.
No, don't worry, you're notgoing to make anybody mad
because we're not attackinganyone.
But what ideas?
What are some things that youthink might would be, at the
very least, a good thing toconsider when working with
families of children withspecial needs?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I think what I see some breakdowns sometime is
communication, communicationbetween the parent, the teacher
to the parent, the parent to theteacher, even the teacher to
the counselor.
I think it is so important tohave good communication on
(19:30):
what's going on.
I don't think you cancommunicate too much on that.
I think working what I'vewitnessed and this is sad to say
, but a lot of times, especiallybefore a diagnosis if a child
comes in with special needs butthey haven't gotten a diagnosis,
(19:51):
if a child comes in withspecial needs but they haven't
gotten a diagnosis, they justare considered having behavioral
problems and I've witnessedkids almost being labeled and
that's so sad.
At one time an educator askedme if I would come in and
(20:16):
observe a child and it didn'ttake me too long to see that
this child had been labeled.
I could tell by the way thechildren were talking to this
kid.
It's like they were justrepeating what they heard their
parents say.
You know to this kid and I toldthe educator.
(20:37):
I said I really believe thatthis little guy has been labeled
and I'm afraid that happens alot and it helps so much when
there is a diagnosis becauseit's like people have more
patience with kids when there'sa diagnosis Later on in watching
(21:01):
this child.
That's another thing, especiallynowadays because the classrooms
are so large.
But to really watch the kidsand learn the kids, because the
same little kid I was in aclassroom with him like two
years later and I learned thatthis little kid, he just wanted
(21:24):
to be respected.
If someone would take a toyfrom him he would haul off and
hit him.
But if I would have the otherchild say, why don't you go ask
him if you can play with thattoy?
That little kid would just handthe toy over.
It's just he wanted to berespected.
(21:46):
He didn't want people, you know, taking things from them and
everything.
And I think if we, if theteachers and even the parents,
can really watch the kids andlearn how to help them, does
that make sense.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Absolutely so.
I mean, it really iscounterintuitive.
What you're talking about iscounterintuitive to us as
parents and as adults, where,you know, a lot of times we want
kids to just do what we tellthem to do, instead of let's
(22:21):
learn the child, let's learntheir thought process and their
perspective.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
And sometimes that's hard because it's almost you
almost feel like, well, if theydon't do what I'm saying, I'm
losing control.
And that's not it at all.
You need to learn that child,because they each learn
differently and they, you know,things look different to
different kids.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Absolutely, Because you know all of their, all of
their interactions, all of theirexperiences shape their
perspective on how they view theworld around them and we don't
know all of those experiencesand what has happened in their
lives.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, like you've said, jared, that we live in our
own head, we only know what weknow, we have only experienced
what we've experienced, and sowe don't know what they're
necessarily going through.
I mean, we can try tosympathize, we can try to
empathize, but it's differentand everybody has their own
perspective based on whatthey've been through.
(23:23):
And some of these little guysand gals have been through so
much that, as children, I don'tknow if any of us would have
been able to go through it.
They're dealing with so muchthese days.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And communicating with the parent too, the teacher
communicating with the parent,the parent communicating with
the teacher.
You're learning this childtogether.
You're helping, you know, toshape this child in the way he
should go, you know, or she?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Right, because we know that we've in conversations
we've had with parents, youknow, sometimes we'll say
so-and-so, you know.
So we celebrate some victories,oh, so they're doing this,
they'll sit down in the chairfor you.
Well, absolutely.
But then there's also timesthat we say, well, we're seeing
this like.
Oh well, we don't see this athome.
(24:19):
And so, having theseconversations, we can say so,
what have you tried?
Or we can say, well, we triedthis, and so that definitely is
is is key, is that that constantcommunication, yes and honest
because we don't be honest aboutbecause we don't be honest
about it.
We don't judge, we just want tohelp your kid.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Right, all right, mom , I've got one more question.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
And this is a big one .
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
No, not really it is a big one, but it's one that I
know you will not have anyissues answering whatsoever.
So anybody that knows me evenhalf decently knows that my dad
is a pastor and has been a localpastor here.
For golly, what's it been?
40 years.
Does that sound right?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Close to it.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, and he's been doing the pastor thing and
the preacher thing and you'vebeen by his side.
So what I do know is this Oneof the really great things and I
think also one of the scarythings about being the child of
a preacher is that your childrencan rat you out.
(25:33):
If you are not the real deal,they can burn you down.
What I can say is that myparents are the real deal.
Oh, thank you dear what you hearpreached and shared on Sunday.
They live that life.
It's real to them.
So, mom, tell me, how would youdescribe to anyone listening
(25:57):
the impact that God has had onyour perspective when it comes
to working with children andfamilies?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Oh, my Children are so special to Him, you know so
special to Him and special tohim.
You know so special to him.
And um, well, jared, you saidthat wasn't going to be a hard
question.
I think you know, just knowing,knowing Christ and um, and what
(26:27):
he's done for me, um, the graceand the mercy he has shown me
personally, that has helped meto show grace and mercy to
adults, but also to these littlekids who they're being, they're
(26:50):
, they're growing and they'rebeing molded and shaped and, um,
they are so special to God.
I just want to, I just want tolove them, um, I want to show
them unconditional love, justlike God has shown, shown me
(27:17):
love just like God has shown me.
And there's nothing greaterthan watching, because, being in
the preschool, I have seenchildren grow up and they have
children now themselves, whichis really wild.
And it's so awesome to see thatwhat God has allowed me to pour
into children's lives.
They have grown and they'repouring the love of Christ and
(27:43):
godly principles into theirchildren's lives and there's
just, I don't think there's anygreater reward than that.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I love you Mom.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
I love you, mom.
I love you, but I was afraid Iwas going to start crying there.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Don't worry, we already have a couple of times
on this side of the table.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
But it is.
It's such a privilege to beable to work with kids and you
know, I really didn't plan on it.
I really didn't plan on workingwith children and that's been
my heart and really my callthrough my whole life.
Even now I'm still working withchildren and working with
(28:31):
families who have special needschildren and that's just a call
that God's put in my heart andmy life and he's equipped me,
he's equipped my heart for thatand I just, I love watching you
and Laura just pour your heartsinto kids and their families.
(28:53):
Y'all have a ministry.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I know Jared's often told people that you are a
teacher who never had their ownclassroom per se, you know, and
that it's definitely true.
To watch you with the kids isreally you're a natural and you
just it just comes, you come byit and you just you know what
(29:17):
they need.
And um yeah, it's, it's reallycool.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Thanks, all right, mom.
Well, I think we're going towrap this up.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Well, y'all were pretty nice, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
We try our best.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I was a little scared .
Well, we're pretty nice.
Thank you, we try our best.
I was so scared.
Well, we're glad you agreed toit.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Well, thank you, and again, I'm I'm honored that you
would even ask me when they.
When you first asked me, it waslike why do I have to offer?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Well, now, everybody knows Well, thank you.
All right, mom, we'll talk toyou later.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Y'all get some rest.
Bye, bye.
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