February 5, 2025 • 36 mins
Heather McMillan, a passionate special education teacher, joins us to share her journey from a scholarship recipient to a dedicated advocate for children with disabilities. Discover how Heather's unique approach to teaching emphasizes the balance between academic skills and adaptive life skills, fostering independence in her students. Through heartwarming stories and invaluable insights, Heather reveals how empathy and understanding can transform the educational experience for both students and their families.
We dive deep into Heather's transformative experiences, from serving as a personal care attendant to engaging with diverse families and students. Heather opens up about her evolving teaching philosophy, underscoring the importance of tailored education. Her stories highlight the power of collaboration between educators and parents, as she provides practical advice for navigating the special education system. Heather's heartfelt perspective challenges us to rethink traditional teaching methods and embrace a more inclusive approach.
As we explore the changing landscape of special education, Heather discusses the impact of legislative changes like the No Child Left Behind Act and shares strategies for promoting positive behavior in students with disabilities. By encouraging life skills alongside academics, Heather illustrates the value of framing tasks as practice for adulthood, while emphasizing the necessity of offering choices to empower students. This episode offers a compelling look at how educators can create a cooperative, self-aware learning environment where every student can flourish.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
and we are back with another episode, another one.
We're almost like I don't knowlike veterans at this.
This is like whole episodenumber 12, um, you know, and
it's been really cool.
So our last episode we got tohang out and talk with a teacher
that we got to spend some timewith about about four years I
(00:29):
think.
We worked with her and and itwas really cool to be able to
catch up and talk about herperspective as as a general
education teacher and bringingin students in her classroom and
really pushing for inclusionand talking about the different
benefits that she's seen instudents being able to be a part
(00:50):
of that.
So that's my dog.
So, ah, big deal, it'll be allright, that's Captain.
He's the one that, never mind.
We'll get into Captain's storysome other time, but our guest
this week is really really superspecial.
So one of the things that Lauraand I have been just so pleased
(01:12):
with in our time here in CamdenCounty and having a son that's
been in the special educationsystem is that he's never had a
teacher that we thought, oh well, I guess they're all right,
like we've loved every teacher.
And just so happens that thisevening we get to talk with miss
(01:33):
heather mcmillan who, uh, wasxander's teacher.
I believe it was around likethe kindergarten through second
grade, was that right, missmcmillan?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I.
I think that was right.
The years start to.
You know blur after so long.
But yes, it was earlyelementary for sure, maybe even
into third grade.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, that sounds about right, and I know that.
I can remember sitting in oneof those IEP meetings early on
and just being so nervous andnot understanding anything that
was being talked about, and itwas very beneficial for me to
(02:14):
sit in these meetings that Ididn't understand.
But the teachers are always sogreat and they're willing to
walk along with us and explainthings to us, and so this
evening we're talking, like Isaid, with Miss Heather McMillan
.
I'm so excited.
I'm excited.
Yes, that's right, you get theapplause too.
(02:35):
And I would also add this Lauraand I both had the opportunity
to sit in a workshop that youled.
I believe it was the beginningof this year right, it was the
beginning of this year and itwas fantastic.
I just want you to know that wewalked out of that with a lot
of great ideas, a lot ofdirection, and so, as parents
(02:55):
and as fellow teachers, wereally appreciate everything
that you have done.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, thank you, I appreciate that and you know I
just I don't do everything right.
That's one of the first thingsI tell my parents when I meet
new parents, when new studentsis, I'm not going to do
everything right and we're notalways going to agree, but I
promise you that I have yourchild, my students' best
interest at heart.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Absolutely, and I can again, speaking from the side
of a parent, I can, I can attestto that.
So I also noticed, Ms McMillan,that you wrote a book and I got
to tell you.
So I was reading the book andas I'm going through it, I go
Laura, Laura, listen, listen,listen, listen to what Ms
McMillan said.
(03:41):
We believe that we're moving inthe right, because here's the
thing you can read textbooks,you can write papers, but when
you get in the classroom it'sdifferent.
It is and to be able to see someof the things that you talk
about in that book and us beingable to connect with it and go
(04:02):
okay, cool, we feel like we'reheading in the right direction.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, and I really wrote that book.
It's kind of funny that youstarted this conversation the
way that you did, because Ireally wrote that book out of a
concern for parents who reallywere feeling overwhelmed.
Walking into those IEP meetings, walking into daily life with a
child with a disability, right,no one, especially our teachers
(04:29):
we kind of sign up for this,right.
We don't totally know whatwe're getting into, that's for
sure.
But you know we do it out of adesire to love kids, to help
kids, and we choose to do it.
But as a parent who suddenlyfinds yourself with a child with
a disability, there are a fewwho adopt, but for the most part
(04:53):
, you know, that's just kind of.
You didn't choose it, it wassomething you were handed, and I
often talk about that.
No kid comes with a book, butespecially a kid with a
disability and parents who, youknow, are suddenly having to
figure out not only how to raisea kid but all of the methods
(05:13):
that they were raised with, allof those things that you would
typically use, suddenly aren'tworking.
You know, and I often hadparents say to me well, I don't
understand why they behave inyour class, but at home I'm
really struggling.
And I look at them and I say,because I have a master's degree
, they're doing this.
(05:35):
I don't say that to say thatI'm special or better than you.
I say that to say I've beentaught how to do this.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Right, you've done a ton of research?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And I have the experience right At this point.
I've been doing this over 25years now and so you know I've
been doing this longer than now.
The students that I'm teachinghave been alive, so you know
again, there's so much thatcomes.
You know that schooling's great, but so much comes from
experience.
So really that's kind of wherethe heart of the book came from
(06:08):
is wanting to give some parentsjust some quick and easy things
to be able to jump off with thatdon't cost money, you don't
have to be an expert to do, butthey make a big impact and
that's kind of you know where itcame from.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Well, and one of the things that you said that, one
of the things you said in thebook that that really stood out
was the we typically parent theway that we were raised.
Right, we're a reflection ofour parents and when you add a
student or a child with specialneeds, that kind of flips it
(06:43):
even more.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
With special needs, that kind of flips it even more.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
So it's like the same thing, and I found that in our
own home, the same ways that myparents raised me, those methods
didn't necessarily work forXander, like there had to be a
different approach to that.
So I want to ask you somequestions, ms McMillan, I'm
going to keep calling you that.
Just call me Heather, gerald,just call me Heather, it doesn't
feel right, all right.
(07:08):
So, like you just said, you'vebeen in this game for, you know,
25 years.
I don't know many people thatdo anything for 25 years.
So what was it that inspiredyou to become a special
education teacher and then kindof to tag on onto that?
How has your perspective onteaching evolved over the years?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, you know, it's kind of funny.
I always knew, from the timethat I was young, that I wanted
to be a teacher, not necessarilykids with special needs, but a
teacher.
So that's you know, since I wasprobably eight years old.
But then, as I, you know, kindof thought some more and, to be
honest with you, it's so funnyhow God works Right.
To be honest with you, Idecided to go into special ed
(07:50):
because there were morescholarships for schooling and
that kind of funny.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
OK.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Right, and so that, to be to be perfectly blunt and
honest, that that had an impacton it, right, and I really
thought, ok, I'm going to teachkids with learning disabilities
kind of some mild impairment,maybe some dyslexia and then I
got into my first job and thefirst job that I got was
teaching kids with moderatesevere disabilities, and it took
(08:15):
me about six months to decide Ilove this, right, this is what
I love.
What I love, and I kind of, youknow, when I think back to
doing some of my practicums andsuch, I was always drawn to the
students who needed a little bitmore assistance, right, that
was kind of always just where myheart was, and so that's really
(08:37):
how it started.
Also, when I was in college andthis really plays a lot into
where the book comes from and myunderstanding and empathy for
parents is that I was a personalcare attendant for a friend in
college who had spinal muscularatrophy, which is a degenerative
(08:57):
disease similar to MD, and soshe was basically quadriplegic
but she had, you know,cognitively, she had normal
cognitive ability, she was goingto school but needed full-time,
round-the-clock care, and sothat was my job in school, as
(09:18):
well as going to schoolfull-time and that really gave
me a lot of understanding.
And that really gave me a lotof understanding and from both a
practical side of what I neededto do as a teacher, as well as
some empathy and understandingof what goes into caring for
someone 24 hours a day.
So it's kind of a neat overlap,just something that God brought
(09:43):
into my life to really prepareme for the things that I would
do later and, as far as you know, things that have changed my
perspective.
You know, when I first startedteaching I was young, I was not
married, I didn't have kids.
And you kind of go into itgung-ho and like enthusiastic
and I'm going to save the world.
(10:03):
And you know, I mean likeenthusiastic and I'm going to
save the world.
And you know, I mean I knew Iwasn't going to go and I knew I
wasn't going to go in andsuddenly cure all these kids
with autism and, you know, chairkids with CP.
I knew I wasn't going to dothat but I was going to make a
huge difference.
And I'm not saying I haven't,but it's just kind of a little
bit.
It's a little bit differentwhen you get in there and
(10:24):
suddenly have a lot of kids anda lot of different things
pulling at you right, differentexpectations.
But as I once I had my own kids, really had got to know
families better.
You know that perspective ofdoing what the kids need, what's
meaningful to the kids, despitewhat the standards say.
(10:45):
You know finding ways to makethose align and what's
meaningful for one kid andwhat's meaningful for one family
is not for another family.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And that's kind of.
You know how that changed forme.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, I love hearing stories of how people got into
teaching because some of themare fantastic.
So I've never met anybody thatsaid I knew I wanted to be a
teacher when I was eight.
Now my dad, who is a pastorhere in this county, he knew
when he was was it 13,?
I think he says like he wasgoing to be a pastor.
(11:22):
Before that maybe Listen.
I'm 47 years old and I'm stilltrying to figure out what I want
to be when I grow up, but I amenjoying what we're doing, and
so you know Laura's story.
We've shared it before in mystories.
It's just neat to hear howpeople are drawn into the
education system.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Right, and it is all different and that perspective
that we come in with really doescolor who we are as teachers.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Oh, absolutely, hey, tell me more about that.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
So when we come into it as a coming into it with all
this background kind of things,it makes such a difference as
far as you know, how do weapproach it.
Do we approach it strictly aslet's sit down and let's learn
this academic, or do we thinkmore globally?
(12:16):
For me, having that experienceof being with an individual with
a disability 24-7, I kind oflean more toward the functional
skills that are necessary, right, Because I am a big believer
because of some of thatbackground, and if I don't teach
(12:37):
you to do it for yourself now,I'm still going to be doing it
for you when you're 25 or 30 or35.
Now, she physically couldn't doit, it could not do some of
those things.
It was always going to needthat assistance.
But at the same point, you know, what can I help someone to be
able to do?
Because I had to do a lot forher and so you know, including
(13:02):
getting up in the middle of thenight to turn her over.
So you know I was here, I wasnot having full night's sleep,
those kind of things.
So I understanding thatwhatever I can teach you to do
for yourself, right, thensomeone doesn't have to do it
for you.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, and so, like Laura is over here, she's ready
to be your choir.
She's like, yeah, and so, likeLaura is over here, she's she's
ready to be your choir.
She's like, yes, she says a lotof the same things.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Oh yes, and I tell the parents that we do.
We expect a lot out of theirstudents and we joke around.
I said, well, we let theparents be the nice ones.
And I said I'm the mean one andI make them do for themselves.
But you know, not really beingmean, but talk about how we
can't enable them and because,like you said, if we continue to
(13:51):
do it for them, they're justgoing to let us they're kids.
What kid's not going to let youdo something for them?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Well, and now that I'm in, you know I spent 20
years doing elementary,everything from preschool to
fifth grade, and now I'm inmiddle school doing sixth to
eighth grade, and I talk a lotwith my middle schoolers about,
you know, asking them to dosomething hard and they're like
that's hard.
I don't want to do that.
I get it Right, but we'repracticing being adults and
(14:19):
that's the phrase I use with it.
This is your practice for beingan adult.
They all want to be an adult,right.
They all want to be an adult.
They all want to be in charge,right.
I'm like I want you to be incharge too one day, but right
now, we're going to practicedoing that.
Oh, that's fantastic, and itreally kind of turns them around
(14:40):
, you know, and kind of they'relike huh, okay, and you know all
the phrases out there, all thememes adulting's hard, that's
right.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It is.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Right, yes, and so even with my personal children,
with my school children, youknow practicing things like
budgeting schoolchildren.
You know practicing things likebudgeting.
In middle school and ouradaptive curriculum class, we do
a lot of things like cookingand doing laundry and mopping
floors and all of those thingsas well, and they're like it's
(15:13):
not just about academics,Because the other thing that we
know is that the reason mostkids with disabilities don't
hold down a job is not becausethey don't have the academic
skills, but it's because theydon't have the social skills and
the life skills they need to besuccessful.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
So it's all of those things together and that's where
that finding that balancereally comes in.
And one of the things I'veenjoyed about being in middle
school is we know kids withdisabilities are three to five
years behind, like cognitively,socially, all that.
So what I see being in middleschool is suddenly they're ready
(15:50):
for the academics that maybethey weren't ready for before
because you know.
But and I think that we as asociety, we as a school system
and I don't mean just Camden, Imean, you know, nationally yes,
ma'am, we kind of had thatbackwards right.
We're pushing academics in theearly years and we're pushing
social and adaptive skills inthe later years.
(16:12):
We kind of need to flip thoseright Because I can help you
catch up on some of thoseacademics.
If you had the behavior and theadaptive skills you'd be able
to do it.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, yes, and that's encouraging to us because we
are at the elementary level andare seeing that.
And then we get, you know,concerned because they're not
academically moving where wefeel like they should.
But so that is encouraging toknow that.
You know, once they get up toyour level a lot of times they
(16:45):
have, you know they've maturedand through some hard work
they're ready to attend andready to work and that there is
more of a chance to catch up.
That's encouraging it to us atour level for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Well, you know, and if they're coming to me at, say,
11 years old and they're fiveyears behind, that puts them at
six years old, right, and sowhat is a six year old ready to
do?
Learn to read, learn to do somemath, you know?
Suddenly they're ready.
I mean, if we could go into awhole thing about how I think
the regular ed system is pushingkids too young to do stuff
(17:20):
they're not developmentallyready for as well.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I don't know if we've got enough time for that
because I know that's one.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
We would definitely be a part of that conversation
and it might go till Sunday,definitely Getting back to your
book a little bit and talkingabout this helping the kids do
for themselves and what are someof the key strategies from your
book that are proven to be mosteffective when you're
(17:47):
supporting the parents ofchildren with disabilities?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Right?
Well, one of the things is sosimple, but it's so hard to
train ourselves to do as adults,and that's to give kids choices
.
Right, they really.
You get into this powerstruggle with kids because they
want to be in charge, they wantto be adults, and so when you're
constantly telling a child noor you can't do that, then you
(18:12):
get into this back and forthpower struggle with them,
whereas when you give them achoice, and sometimes the choice
, it's about keeping our end inmind, right?
What do you want?
Well, I want you to be safe,ultimately, as a teacher, right,
I have a student right now who,for whatever reason, has
decided that standing in thechair is fun and I'm like, no, I
(18:34):
mean okay, maybe, but it's notsafe and we're not going to do
it.
So the choices are if I tellthe child to sit down, she's
going to yell and scream at me.
I don't want to, I want tostand.
If I say you have a choice, youcan stand on the floor or sit
in the chair, then she'll sayokay and she'll get down and do
(18:56):
one of those two and I still getwhat I want.
What I want is you not stand inthe chair because it's not safe
, right, you know.
And so, really, it's aboutframing choices the way that
kids want.
And, right, that doesn't costany money, there's no supplies,
but it's a mindset change.
For us and that's one of thethings I talk about in the book
(19:19):
is teachers, is parents.
You can't force a child to dosomething behaviorally.
Right, you can make it worth awhile to do it, but you can't
force anybody to change theirbehavior, right, so the only
person's behavior I can controlis my own.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And I say that a lot to my students In middle school,
you know is that back and forthhe's looking at me.
Okay, I make him stop lookingat me.
I can't like, can't do it.
But you can choose to turnaround, you can choose to close
your eyes, you can choose to doall of these other things
because you're in control of youand, again, that's teaching
(20:04):
them to take responsibility forthemselves.
So that's one of the big things.
Another one is positivereinforcement and I know y'all
use this all the time in yourschool and with your students
and I hear so many times wedon't want to be bribing kids.
We're not bribing kids.
So I mean, I love my job, I'vedone it for 25 years but if I
(20:26):
didn't get a paycheck at the endof every month, Right.
Then I probably wouldn't stillbe doing it Right.
I mean, there are days that theonly reason I show up for work
is because I know at the endthere's going to be a paycheck.
I mean again, that's just beingbrutally honest, right, Right.
But there are things we all getreinforced or rewarded for.
The things that we do there areconsequences, good and bad,
(20:54):
Right, and that's that's a bigthing to teach kids that it's
your actions that haveconsequences.
I didn't give you the grade I,you know I've got a student
today.
You know you, you made me move.
Well, I gave you a warning.
I said you either had to, youknow, leave your hands off that
child or I was going to move youand that was your choice Number
(21:14):
one.
I gave him a choice, right, andnumber two, when you chose to
keep touching the child, then Ifollowed through right, and
there was a consequence, and theconsequence of he had left his
hands off of him would have beenhe got to stay there.
Absolutely and that's a positivereinforcement.
It's not always a candy ortangible or those kind of things
(21:37):
.
Again, doesn't cost any money.
How many of our kids and Ithink that y'all can probably
attest to this as well they wantattention.
Right, as parents, we're busy,right, I know my kids are almost
fully grown now, but they stillwant attention and it's one of
(22:00):
the most costly things that wehave as adults.
Right Is our time and ourattention Right.
And so many times any child,but especially a child with a
disability, is going to doesn'treally care, number one, if that
attention is positive ornegative, and they will do
whatever it takes to get yourattention Right.
(22:21):
And so that attention is sorewarding for kids and, again,
it doesn't cost a thing.
But we have to be intentional.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Well, and you know you talk about you're talking
about this attention, and thatyou know that's across the board
as far as these kids go.
All kids want attention.
Kids go, all kids wantattention.
However, what's even more Ithink plays into it even more
with our students withdisabilities is that there is a
(22:54):
kind of a common slide toputting electronics in front of
our kids, right?
So, like you said earlier, wedon't have a book to tell us how
to raise our child with specialneeds, and so what we do is we
try to do things to just keepthem happy or keep them right,
and so then we start giving themthese things, but then, at the
end of the day, it's not theiPad that they want, it's not,
(23:17):
you know, the computer that theywant, it's not the video game
that they want.
They want to know that theymatter to somebody and they want
that attention.
Like you said, they'll dowhatever they can to get it.
Now let's move on.
I have another question.
Here we go Ready, are younervous?
No, good, no, ma'am, no, ma'am.
(23:42):
That oh yeah, you're good.
So what are, what are some ofthe most significant changes
you've seen in the field ofspecial education over the past
two decades plus and how thesechanges impacted your teaching
methods so one of the biggestthings because, um, so I was
teaching before.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
No Child Left Behind came through, right.
So I was teaching back when wedidn't do any testing with these
kids with more significantdisabilities.
There wasn't a standardizedtesting.
We taught, everything was veryfocused on those functional life
skills, on those functionallife skills, and not saying we
didn't do academics, but we did.
(24:25):
I'd say for most of us it wasprobably 80% life skills and 20%
academics.
But again, at that time I wasteaching K through two.
They weren't ready foracademics, right.
And so then suddenly, this nochild left behind law comes down
and says oh well, they need tobe doing everything that that
(24:46):
typical first grade student does.
And, as teachers who were notso foreign to us, just didn't
make sense.
I'm like we're the ones in herewith these kids.
Every day you can show me howthis is going to work Right.
And so it was very, it wastruly just world changing for us
(25:09):
who were teaching these lowerincidence kids, right.
It just we're like what do wedo with this?
Well, I'll tell you.
Well, there are definitelytimes and students that I'm like
, yeah, we don't need to bedoing this Right and we
definitely don't need to beputting as high a stakes on
(25:30):
these testings as we do.
But there was some good that'scome of that as well, because we
were able to expose kids tothings and some of these kids
were ready man.
They raised up to some of thisstuff.
So one of the biggest thingsthat it did is change the focus
of what I did from dysfunctionalto more academic, and I had to
(25:54):
learn to balance those two.
Again, how do I make all ofthose things meaningful, right?
So, for instance, now, as amiddle school teacher, all of
the middle school standards forELA are about inferencing.
That's a high level skill.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Right, that takes a lot.
But here's the thing.
It's also important to lifeskills.
Why?
Because I don't know how youfeel.
Because I can't read your face.
I can't inference how you feelor what you're thinking or what
even cause an effect.
What's going to happen when Ihit Johnny over there, right?
(26:32):
So all of those are life skills.
So it's made me a betterteacher in some ways, and that I
had to figure out how do I takethat, what seems to be a truly
academic skill, and make it notjust academic but also
meaningful that word again,right.
Make it meaningful for thatchild and that student.
(26:54):
And so you have to get creative, but it can be done.
So that's been a huge change.
And that was many, many yearsago, and I really just feel like
, let's say, that was in 2001.
So that's been 24 years ago,and I really just feel like in
the last couple of years thatI've really kind of gotten the
(27:15):
hang of being able to balancethose two.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Oh, gotcha, yeah, and that's one of the things that
Laura and I talk about on theregular, because you know and I
know that you experienced thisas well is that in that one
classroom there's such a broadspectrum of needs right that the
students have.
And so one of the things thatwe've been trying to figure out
(27:39):
and we would love to hear youaddress this, is how do you do
that, how do you have aclassroom that is full of all
these different individual needsand how do you address those
needs and give that child thebest chance at moving forward
and progressing?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Well, the first thing to know is that you're not
always going to perfectlybalance those needs, right.
That's just not possible.
The second thing is to knowthat those needs for the
individual and for the classroomchange day to day.
You know, and we forget thatsometimes.
You know so-and-so didn't sleeplast night, so now his biggest
(28:19):
need is to take a quick napbefore we get to work.
Or today I was hoping to go inand do some good academics,
right?
Well, I forgot the dental vanwas coming.
So then you're pulling my kidsout and you're pulling the
parent with her.
So, now I'm in the room withnine kids or eight kids, and
(28:40):
she's got the one in the dentalvan.
So we totally flipped andsuddenly we were doing behavior,
life skills, because they werefussing and fighting with each
other.
Right, because they werefussing and fighting with each
(29:00):
other, they were.
And so suddenly we put theacademics away and we were
focused on the need at themoment right, which was the
behavior.
But the other thing is to thinkabout that balance, not in
terms of a particular student orin terms of a day, but a little
bit longer term right, in termsof a particular student, or in
terms of a day, but a little bitlonger term.
Right, in terms of the week.
So this week did I meet theneeds of this child and this
child and this child in some way?
(29:21):
Right, because I think we'llkill ourselves if we try to meet
everybody's needs every day tothe fullest extent possible
Right.
And one more thing about that isthe fact that when you have a
child who is so disruptivebehaviorally, for whatever
reason, that sometimes we feellike I'm spending all the time
(29:44):
with this one student trying toget this behavior under control.
Or a new student walks into theroom right, walks into your
classroom because they justmoved from Texas or wherever and
suddenly it kind of flips yourwhole classroom on its head
right, and so we have to spend alittle bit of time extra time,
(30:06):
with that student, trying to getsome behaviors, trying to get
to know the student.
But we've got to remember thatin case what's best for that
student trying to get somebehaviors, trying to get to know
the student but we got toremember that what's best for
that student ends up beingwhat's best for the classroom
and the students as a whole.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Because when we have that student who walks into me
as a sixth grader, I'm going tohave that student for three
years assumedly right, maybefour.
That student for three yearsassumedly right, maybe four.
And so if I can take the firstsix months and kind of deal with
some of those behaviors and,you know, let that child know
what my expectations in myclassroom are, then the next two
(30:45):
and a half years are a lotbetter and everyone is served a
lot better.
And I'll tell you, what I seeis that I have a lot of eighth
graders this year that aremoving up and I'm getting a lot
of sixth graders to replace them.
And I'm like man, but I gotthese guys trained.
(31:06):
I get to start over fromscratch, but the maturity level
and the independence that theyshow, and that is my reward.
What is rewarding?
And you know what?
Some of them are doing thingslike perfect squares and doing
some high level math stuff andhigh level reading.
(31:27):
They're reading where theyweren't reading before.
They're inferencing, they'redoing some of these things that
they weren't doing before, butguess what?
They're not doing them untileighth grade because it took
some time to get there.
And so looking, I reallystarted looking at my classroom
as that whole three year segmentof time right and not this one
(31:49):
little segment of time, anddoing so has helped my
instruction.
It's helped them to be moresuccessful and it's helped me
not to be so frustrated whenthey don't get it the first time
or the second time or the 20thtime Right, and it's made a big
difference there.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Well, I'm going to call you Miss McMillan, because
that's just what I do.
We are coming towards the endof our time together, so there's
a couple of things that I wantto mention and get you to kind
of answer some questions.
As far as your book, it'scalled Ending the Power Struggle
Five Strategies for Parents ofChildren with Disabilities, and
(32:29):
where could somebody find thatbook?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
So it's on Amazon Just go to Amazon and look that
up, and it's right there.
You can order.
It's available either inpaperback or you can do a
digital download.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Excellent, and what's really cool is a lot of the
things that you talked aboutusing in your classrooms do
transfer into the home and thatthese same practices parents can
use in helping to raise theirkids.
But, Heather, I got onequestion for you that I didn't
(33:06):
actually prepare for you, but Iknow that it's okay.
I know that your faith is avery big part of your life and
your family's life.
I know you and Mark.
I've known Mark for a long timeas well.
Can you tell me and thelistener the difference that the
Lord has made in your life whenit comes to how you do your job
as a special education teacher?
Speaker 3 (33:28):
So I believe for me and for many special ed teachers
that I come across, it's acalling right.
Everybody says to me how canyou do this for 25 years?
Right, it's hard, and I don'tdisagree, it's hard, but it's
made such a difference becausesometimes, honestly, when I
can't figure out that kid andwhat to do with that kid, I
(33:52):
found myself stopping prayingabout it.
What do I need to do?
Right, and that's huge, and itchanges my perspective on why I
do it Right.
It's not just about theacademics and even the making
sure that they get you know someof those life skills.
(34:12):
It's about loving them.
These are kids and familiesthat just need to be loved.
Yes, ma'am, and that's really abig part of what I try to do.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, and, like I said before, I'm here to say
that you do it well.
As fellow teachers, you'recertainly someone that we look
up to and that we learn from.
And then, as parents of astudent with special needs just
the investment that you made inour own son's life we could
never thank you enough for that.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I love Sandron.
I love doing my job.
There are days that it'sexhausting, but it's more than a
job, it's truly a ministry.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
From the way I approach it.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
So yes, ma'am.
Well, I appreciate that we'regoing to go ahead and wrap this
thing up.
Mrs Curtis, you got anythingyou want to say?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I don't think so.
I think y'all covered it, thatwas great, wasn't it?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I felt like I was back in school.
I'm just sitting listening.
I should have been taking notes, but it's okay, I recorded it,
so it's good.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
And you got the book.
There you go, and I got thebook.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
I got the book right here.
I'm fantastic.
I recommend it to anybody thateither A has questions about how
to raise their child with adisability, or even on the other
side, if you know somebody thathas a child with a disability
that could use it, check it outand.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
I think even as a teacher, you know there are some
good things in there.
They apply to the classroom,because it's not that much
different, right?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, it's really not, and
that's why I was getting readyto say even for you know,
teachers, new or veteranteachers, if you're at a point,
you know, new teachers arealways looking for something and
veteran teachers are alwayslooking for different things,
that different ways.
You may not have looked fromperspective and so, yeah, I
think it is.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Our classroom is like a family.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It becomes like a family.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
We keep those kids for so long.
I mean good and bad parts offamily, it's all together.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
And families don't always get along.
That's what I've had to sayListen, we're a family, but
families don't always get along.
You just got to figure out howto get over it.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
That's right.
Well, thank you.
Thank you again, Heather.
Thank you so much for your time.
We are looking forward to moreconversations in the future.
All right, bye.
and we are back with another episode, another one.
We're almost like I don't knowlike veterans at this.
This is like whole episodenumber 12, um, you know, and
it's been really cool.
So our last episode we got tohang out and talk with a teacher
that we got to spend some timewith about about four years I
(00:29):
think.
We worked with her and and itwas really cool to be able to
catch up and talk about herperspective as as a general
education teacher and bringingin students in her classroom and
really pushing for inclusionand talking about the different
benefits that she's seen instudents being able to be a part
(00:50):
of that.
So that's my dog.
So, ah, big deal, it'll be allright, that's Captain.
He's the one that, never mind.
We'll get into Captain's storysome other time, but our guest
this week is really really superspecial.
So one of the things that Lauraand I have been just so pleased
(01:12):
with in our time here in CamdenCounty and having a son that's
been in the special educationsystem is that he's never had a
teacher that we thought, oh well, I guess they're all right,
like we've loved every teacher.
And just so happens that thisevening we get to talk with miss
(01:33):
heather mcmillan who, uh, wasxander's teacher.
I believe it was around likethe kindergarten through second
grade, was that right, missmcmillan?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I.
I think that was right.
The years start to.
You know blur after so long.
But yes, it was earlyelementary for sure, maybe even
into third grade.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, that sounds about right, and I know that.
I can remember sitting in oneof those IEP meetings early on
and just being so nervous andnot understanding anything that
was being talked about, and itwas very beneficial for me to
(02:14):
sit in these meetings that Ididn't understand.
But the teachers are always sogreat and they're willing to
walk along with us and explainthings to us, and so this
evening we're talking, like Isaid, with Miss Heather McMillan
.
I'm so excited.
I'm excited.
Yes, that's right, you get theapplause too.
(02:35):
And I would also add this Lauraand I both had the opportunity
to sit in a workshop that youled.
I believe it was the beginningof this year right, it was the
beginning of this year and itwas fantastic.
I just want you to know that wewalked out of that with a lot
of great ideas, a lot ofdirection, and so, as parents
(02:55):
and as fellow teachers, wereally appreciate everything
that you have done.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, thank you, I appreciate that and you know I
just I don't do everything right.
That's one of the first thingsI tell my parents when I meet
new parents, when new studentsis, I'm not going to do
everything right and we're notalways going to agree, but I
promise you that I have yourchild, my students' best
interest at heart.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Absolutely, and I can again, speaking from the side
of a parent, I can, I can attestto that.
So I also noticed, Ms McMillan,that you wrote a book and I got
to tell you.
So I was reading the book andas I'm going through it, I go
Laura, Laura, listen, listen,listen, listen to what Ms
McMillan said.
(03:41):
We believe that we're moving inthe right, because here's the
thing you can read textbooks,you can write papers, but when
you get in the classroom it'sdifferent.
It is and to be able to see someof the things that you talk
about in that book and us beingable to connect with it and go
(04:02):
okay, cool, we feel like we'reheading in the right direction.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, and I really wrote that book.
It's kind of funny that youstarted this conversation the
way that you did, because Ireally wrote that book out of a
concern for parents who reallywere feeling overwhelmed.
Walking into those IEP meetings, walking into daily life with a
child with a disability, right,no one, especially our teachers
(04:29):
we kind of sign up for this,right.
We don't totally know whatwe're getting into, that's for
sure.
But you know we do it out of adesire to love kids, to help
kids, and we choose to do it.
But as a parent who suddenlyfinds yourself with a child with
a disability, there are a fewwho adopt, but for the most part
(04:53):
, you know, that's just kind of.
You didn't choose it, it wassomething you were handed, and I
often talk about that.
No kid comes with a book, butespecially a kid with a
disability and parents who, youknow, are suddenly having to
figure out not only how to raisea kid but all of the methods
(05:13):
that they were raised with, allof those things that you would
typically use, suddenly aren'tworking.
You know, and I often hadparents say to me well, I don't
understand why they behave inyour class, but at home I'm
really struggling.
And I look at them and I say,because I have a master's degree
, they're doing this.
(05:35):
I don't say that to say thatI'm special or better than you.
I say that to say I've beentaught how to do this.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Right, you've done a ton of research?
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And I have the experience right At this point.
I've been doing this over 25years now and so you know I've
been doing this longer than now.
The students that I'm teachinghave been alive, so you know
again, there's so much thatcomes.
You know that schooling's great, but so much comes from
experience.
So really that's kind of wherethe heart of the book came from
(06:08):
is wanting to give some parentsjust some quick and easy things
to be able to jump off with thatdon't cost money, you don't
have to be an expert to do, butthey make a big impact and
that's kind of you know where itcame from.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Well, and one of the things that you said that, one
of the things you said in thebook that that really stood out
was the we typically parent theway that we were raised.
Right, we're a reflection ofour parents and when you add a
student or a child with specialneeds, that kind of flips it
(06:43):
even more.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
With special needs, that kind of flips it even more.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
So it's like the same thing, and I found that in our
own home, the same ways that myparents raised me, those methods
didn't necessarily work forXander, like there had to be a
different approach to that.
So I want to ask you somequestions, ms McMillan, I'm
going to keep calling you that.
Just call me Heather, gerald,just call me Heather, it doesn't
feel right, all right.
(07:08):
So, like you just said, you'vebeen in this game for, you know,
25 years.
I don't know many people thatdo anything for 25 years.
So what was it that inspiredyou to become a special
education teacher and then kindof to tag on onto that?
How has your perspective onteaching evolved over the years?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, you know, it's kind of funny.
I always knew, from the timethat I was young, that I wanted
to be a teacher, not necessarilykids with special needs, but a
teacher.
So that's you know, since I wasprobably eight years old.
But then, as I, you know, kindof thought some more and, to be
honest with you, it's so funnyhow God works Right.
To be honest with you, Idecided to go into special ed
(07:50):
because there were morescholarships for schooling and
that kind of funny.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
OK.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Right, and so that, to be to be perfectly blunt and
honest, that that had an impacton it, right, and I really
thought, ok, I'm going to teachkids with learning disabilities
kind of some mild impairment,maybe some dyslexia and then I
got into my first job and thefirst job that I got was
teaching kids with moderatesevere disabilities, and it took
(08:15):
me about six months to decide Ilove this, right, this is what
I love.
What I love, and I kind of, youknow, when I think back to
doing some of my practicums andsuch, I was always drawn to the
students who needed a little bitmore assistance, right, that
was kind of always just where myheart was, and so that's really
(08:37):
how it started.
Also, when I was in college andthis really plays a lot into
where the book comes from and myunderstanding and empathy for
parents is that I was a personalcare attendant for a friend in
college who had spinal muscularatrophy, which is a degenerative
(08:57):
disease similar to MD, and soshe was basically quadriplegic
but she had, you know,cognitively, she had normal
cognitive ability, she was goingto school but needed full-time,
round-the-clock care, and sothat was my job in school, as
(09:18):
well as going to schoolfull-time and that really gave
me a lot of understanding.
And that really gave me a lotof understanding and from both a
practical side of what I neededto do as a teacher, as well as
some empathy and understandingof what goes into caring for
someone 24 hours a day.
So it's kind of a neat overlap,just something that God brought
(09:43):
into my life to really prepareme for the things that I would
do later and, as far as you know, things that have changed my
perspective.
You know, when I first startedteaching I was young, I was not
married, I didn't have kids.
And you kind of go into itgung-ho and like enthusiastic
and I'm going to save the world.
(10:03):
And you know, I mean likeenthusiastic and I'm going to
save the world.
And you know, I mean I knew Iwasn't going to go and I knew I
wasn't going to go in andsuddenly cure all these kids
with autism and, you know, chairkids with CP.
I knew I wasn't going to dothat but I was going to make a
huge difference.
And I'm not saying I haven't,but it's just kind of a little
bit.
It's a little bit differentwhen you get in there and
(10:24):
suddenly have a lot of kids anda lot of different things
pulling at you right, differentexpectations.
But as I once I had my own kids, really had got to know
families better.
You know that perspective ofdoing what the kids need, what's
meaningful to the kids, despitewhat the standards say.
(10:45):
You know finding ways to makethose align and what's
meaningful for one kid andwhat's meaningful for one family
is not for another family.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And that's kind of.
You know how that changed forme.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, I love hearing stories of how people got into
teaching because some of themare fantastic.
So I've never met anybody thatsaid I knew I wanted to be a
teacher when I was eight.
Now my dad, who is a pastorhere in this county, he knew
when he was was it 13,?
I think he says like he wasgoing to be a pastor.
(11:22):
Before that maybe Listen.
I'm 47 years old and I'm stilltrying to figure out what I want
to be when I grow up, but I amenjoying what we're doing, and
so you know Laura's story.
We've shared it before in mystories.
It's just neat to hear howpeople are drawn into the
education system.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Right, and it is all different and that perspective
that we come in with really doescolor who we are as teachers.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Oh, absolutely, hey, tell me more about that.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
So when we come into it as a coming into it with all
this background kind of things,it makes such a difference as
far as you know, how do weapproach it.
Do we approach it strictly aslet's sit down and let's learn
this academic, or do we thinkmore globally?
(12:16):
For me, having that experienceof being with an individual with
a disability 24-7, I kind oflean more toward the functional
skills that are necessary, right, Because I am a big believer
because of some of thatbackground, and if I don't teach
(12:37):
you to do it for yourself now,I'm still going to be doing it
for you when you're 25 or 30 or35.
Now, she physically couldn't doit, it could not do some of
those things.
It was always going to needthat assistance.
But at the same point, you know, what can I help someone to be
able to do?
Because I had to do a lot forher and so you know, including
(13:02):
getting up in the middle of thenight to turn her over.
So you know I was here, I wasnot having full night's sleep,
those kind of things.
So I understanding thatwhatever I can teach you to do
for yourself, right, thensomeone doesn't have to do it
for you.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, and so, like Laura is over here, she's ready
to be your choir.
She's like, yeah, and so, likeLaura is over here, she's she's
ready to be your choir.
She's like, yes, she says a lotof the same things.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Oh yes, and I tell the parents that we do.
We expect a lot out of theirstudents and we joke around.
I said, well, we let theparents be the nice ones.
And I said I'm the mean one andI make them do for themselves.
But you know, not really beingmean, but talk about how we
can't enable them and because,like you said, if we continue to
(13:51):
do it for them, they're justgoing to let us they're kids.
What kid's not going to let youdo something for them?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Well, and now that I'm in, you know I spent 20
years doing elementary,everything from preschool to
fifth grade, and now I'm inmiddle school doing sixth to
eighth grade, and I talk a lotwith my middle schoolers about,
you know, asking them to dosomething hard and they're like
that's hard.
I don't want to do that.
I get it Right, but we'repracticing being adults and
(14:19):
that's the phrase I use with it.
This is your practice for beingan adult.
They all want to be an adult,right.
They all want to be an adult.
They all want to be in charge,right.
I'm like I want you to be incharge too one day, but right
now, we're going to practicedoing that.
Oh, that's fantastic, and itreally kind of turns them around
(14:40):
, you know, and kind of they'relike huh, okay, and you know all
the phrases out there, all thememes adulting's hard, that's
right.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It is.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Right, yes, and so even with my personal children,
with my school children, youknow practicing things like
budgeting schoolchildren.
You know practicing things likebudgeting.
In middle school and ouradaptive curriculum class, we do
a lot of things like cookingand doing laundry and mopping
floors and all of those thingsas well, and they're like it's
(15:13):
not just about academics,Because the other thing that we
know is that the reason mostkids with disabilities don't
hold down a job is not becausethey don't have the academic
skills, but it's because theydon't have the social skills and
the life skills they need to besuccessful.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
So it's all of those things together and that's where
that finding that balancereally comes in.
And one of the things I'veenjoyed about being in middle
school is we know kids withdisabilities are three to five
years behind, like cognitively,socially, all that.
So what I see being in middleschool is suddenly they're ready
(15:50):
for the academics that maybethey weren't ready for before
because you know.
But and I think that we as asociety, we as a school system
and I don't mean just Camden, Imean, you know, nationally yes,
ma'am, we kind of had thatbackwards right.
We're pushing academics in theearly years and we're pushing
social and adaptive skills inthe later years.
(16:12):
We kind of need to flip thoseright Because I can help you
catch up on some of thoseacademics.
If you had the behavior and theadaptive skills you'd be able
to do it.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, yes, and that's encouraging to us because we
are at the elementary level andare seeing that.
And then we get, you know,concerned because they're not
academically moving where wefeel like they should.
But so that is encouraging toknow that.
You know, once they get up toyour level a lot of times they
(16:45):
have, you know they've maturedand through some hard work
they're ready to attend andready to work and that there is
more of a chance to catch up.
That's encouraging it to us atour level for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Well, you know, and if they're coming to me at, say,
11 years old and they're fiveyears behind, that puts them at
six years old, right, and sowhat is a six year old ready to
do?
Learn to read, learn to do somemath, you know?
Suddenly they're ready.
I mean, if we could go into awhole thing about how I think
the regular ed system is pushingkids too young to do stuff
(17:20):
they're not developmentallyready for as well.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I don't know if we've got enough time for that
because I know that's one.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
We would definitely be a part of that conversation
and it might go till Sunday,definitely Getting back to your
book a little bit and talkingabout this helping the kids do
for themselves and what are someof the key strategies from your
book that are proven to be mosteffective when you're
(17:47):
supporting the parents ofchildren with disabilities?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Right?
Well, one of the things is sosimple, but it's so hard to
train ourselves to do as adults,and that's to give kids choices
.
Right, they really.
You get into this powerstruggle with kids because they
want to be in charge, they wantto be adults, and so when you're
constantly telling a child noor you can't do that, then you
(18:12):
get into this back and forthpower struggle with them,
whereas when you give them achoice, and sometimes the choice
, it's about keeping our end inmind, right?
What do you want?
Well, I want you to be safe,ultimately, as a teacher, right,
I have a student right now who,for whatever reason, has
decided that standing in thechair is fun and I'm like, no, I
(18:34):
mean okay, maybe, but it's notsafe and we're not going to do
it.
So the choices are if I tellthe child to sit down, she's
going to yell and scream at me.
I don't want to, I want tostand.
If I say you have a choice, youcan stand on the floor or sit
in the chair, then she'll sayokay and she'll get down and do
(18:56):
one of those two and I still getwhat I want.
What I want is you not stand inthe chair because it's not safe
, right, you know.
And so, really, it's aboutframing choices the way that
kids want.
And, right, that doesn't costany money, there's no supplies,
but it's a mindset change.
For us and that's one of thethings I talk about in the book
(19:19):
is teachers, is parents.
You can't force a child to dosomething behaviorally.
Right, you can make it worth awhile to do it, but you can't
force anybody to change theirbehavior, right, so the only
person's behavior I can controlis my own.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And I say that a lot to my students In middle school,
you know is that back and forthhe's looking at me.
Okay, I make him stop lookingat me.
I can't like, can't do it.
But you can choose to turnaround, you can choose to close
your eyes, you can choose to doall of these other things
because you're in control of youand, again, that's teaching
(20:04):
them to take responsibility forthemselves.
So that's one of the big things.
Another one is positivereinforcement and I know y'all
use this all the time in yourschool and with your students
and I hear so many times wedon't want to be bribing kids.
We're not bribing kids.
So I mean, I love my job, I'vedone it for 25 years but if I
(20:26):
didn't get a paycheck at the endof every month, Right.
Then I probably wouldn't stillbe doing it Right.
I mean, there are days that theonly reason I show up for work
is because I know at the endthere's going to be a paycheck.
I mean again, that's just beingbrutally honest, right, Right.
But there are things we all getreinforced or rewarded for.
The things that we do there areconsequences, good and bad,
(20:54):
Right, and that's that's a bigthing to teach kids that it's
your actions that haveconsequences.
I didn't give you the grade I,you know I've got a student
today.
You know you, you made me move.
Well, I gave you a warning.
I said you either had to, youknow, leave your hands off that
child or I was going to move youand that was your choice Number
(21:14):
one.
I gave him a choice, right, andnumber two, when you chose to
keep touching the child, then Ifollowed through right, and
there was a consequence, and theconsequence of he had left his
hands off of him would have beenhe got to stay there.
Absolutely and that's a positivereinforcement.
It's not always a candy ortangible or those kind of things
(21:37):
.
Again, doesn't cost any money.
How many of our kids and Ithink that y'all can probably
attest to this as well they wantattention.
Right, as parents, we're busy,right, I know my kids are almost
fully grown now, but they stillwant attention and it's one of
(22:00):
the most costly things that wehave as adults.
Right Is our time and ourattention Right.
And so many times any child,but especially a child with a
disability, is going to doesn'treally care, number one, if that
attention is positive ornegative, and they will do
whatever it takes to get yourattention Right.
(22:21):
And so that attention is sorewarding for kids and, again,
it doesn't cost a thing.
But we have to be intentional.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Well, and you know you talk about you're talking
about this attention, and thatyou know that's across the board
as far as these kids go.
All kids want attention.
Kids go, all kids wantattention.
However, what's even more Ithink plays into it even more
with our students withdisabilities is that there is a
(22:54):
kind of a common slide toputting electronics in front of
our kids, right?
So, like you said earlier, wedon't have a book to tell us how
to raise our child with specialneeds, and so what we do is we
try to do things to just keepthem happy or keep them right,
and so then we start giving themthese things, but then, at the
end of the day, it's not theiPad that they want, it's not,
(23:17):
you know, the computer that theywant, it's not the video game
that they want.
They want to know that theymatter to somebody and they want
that attention.
Like you said, they'll dowhatever they can to get it.
Now let's move on.
I have another question.
Here we go Ready, are younervous?
No, good, no, ma'am, no, ma'am.
(23:42):
That oh yeah, you're good.
So what are, what are some ofthe most significant changes
you've seen in the field ofspecial education over the past
two decades plus and how thesechanges impacted your teaching
methods so one of the biggestthings because, um, so I was
teaching before.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
No Child Left Behind came through, right.
So I was teaching back when wedidn't do any testing with these
kids with more significantdisabilities.
There wasn't a standardizedtesting.
We taught, everything was veryfocused on those functional life
skills, on those functionallife skills, and not saying we
didn't do academics, but we did.
(24:25):
I'd say for most of us it wasprobably 80% life skills and 20%
academics.
But again, at that time I wasteaching K through two.
They weren't ready foracademics, right.
And so then suddenly, this nochild left behind law comes down
and says oh well, they need tobe doing everything that that
(24:46):
typical first grade student does.
And, as teachers who were notso foreign to us, just didn't
make sense.
I'm like we're the ones in herewith these kids.
Every day you can show me howthis is going to work Right.
And so it was very, it wastruly just world changing for us
(25:09):
who were teaching these lowerincidence kids, right.
It just we're like what do wedo with this?
Well, I'll tell you.
Well, there are definitelytimes and students that I'm like
, yeah, we don't need to bedoing this Right and we
definitely don't need to beputting as high a stakes on
(25:30):
these testings as we do.
But there was some good that'scome of that as well, because we
were able to expose kids tothings and some of these kids
were ready man.
They raised up to some of thisstuff.
So one of the biggest thingsthat it did is change the focus
of what I did from dysfunctionalto more academic, and I had to
(25:54):
learn to balance those two.
Again, how do I make all ofthose things meaningful, right?
So, for instance, now, as amiddle school teacher, all of
the middle school standards forELA are about inferencing.
That's a high level skill.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Right, that takes a lot.
But here's the thing.
It's also important to lifeskills.
Why?
Because I don't know how youfeel.
Because I can't read your face.
I can't inference how you feelor what you're thinking or what
even cause an effect.
What's going to happen when Ihit Johnny over there, right?
(26:32):
So all of those are life skills.
So it's made me a betterteacher in some ways, and that I
had to figure out how do I takethat, what seems to be a truly
academic skill, and make it notjust academic but also
meaningful that word again,right.
Make it meaningful for thatchild and that student.
(26:54):
And so you have to get creative, but it can be done.
So that's been a huge change.
And that was many, many yearsago, and I really just feel like
, let's say, that was in 2001.
So that's been 24 years ago,and I really just feel like in
the last couple of years thatI've really kind of gotten the
(27:15):
hang of being able to balancethose two.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Oh, gotcha, yeah, and that's one of the things that
Laura and I talk about on theregular, because you know and I
know that you experienced thisas well is that in that one
classroom there's such a broadspectrum of needs right that the
students have.
And so one of the things thatwe've been trying to figure out
(27:39):
and we would love to hear youaddress this, is how do you do
that, how do you have aclassroom that is full of all
these different individual needsand how do you address those
needs and give that child thebest chance at moving forward
and progressing?
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Well, the first thing to know is that you're not
always going to perfectlybalance those needs, right.
That's just not possible.
The second thing is to knowthat those needs for the
individual and for the classroomchange day to day.
You know, and we forget thatsometimes.
You know so-and-so didn't sleeplast night, so now his biggest
(28:19):
need is to take a quick napbefore we get to work.
Or today I was hoping to go inand do some good academics,
right?
Well, I forgot the dental vanwas coming.
So then you're pulling my kidsout and you're pulling the
parent with her.
So, now I'm in the room withnine kids or eight kids, and
(28:40):
she's got the one in the dentalvan.
So we totally flipped andsuddenly we were doing behavior,
life skills, because they werefussing and fighting with each
other.
Right, because they werefussing and fighting with each
(29:00):
other, they were.
And so suddenly we put theacademics away and we were
focused on the need at themoment right, which was the
behavior.
But the other thing is to thinkabout that balance, not in
terms of a particular student orin terms of a day, but a little
bit longer term right, in termsof a particular student, or in
terms of a day, but a little bitlonger term.
Right, in terms of the week.
So this week did I meet theneeds of this child and this
child and this child in some way?
(29:21):
Right, because I think we'llkill ourselves if we try to meet
everybody's needs every day tothe fullest extent possible
Right.
And one more thing about that isthe fact that when you have a
child who is so disruptivebehaviorally, for whatever
reason, that sometimes we feellike I'm spending all the time
(29:44):
with this one student trying toget this behavior under control.
Or a new student walks into theroom right, walks into your
classroom because they justmoved from Texas or wherever and
suddenly it kind of flips yourwhole classroom on its head
right, and so we have to spend alittle bit of time extra time,
(30:06):
with that student, trying to getsome behaviors, trying to get
to know the student.
But we've got to remember thatin case what's best for that
student trying to get somebehaviors, trying to get to know
the student but we got toremember that what's best for
that student ends up beingwhat's best for the classroom
and the students as a whole.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Because when we have that student who walks into me
as a sixth grader, I'm going tohave that student for three
years assumedly right, maybefour.
That student for three yearsassumedly right, maybe four.
And so if I can take the firstsix months and kind of deal with
some of those behaviors and,you know, let that child know
what my expectations in myclassroom are, then the next two
(30:45):
and a half years are a lotbetter and everyone is served a
lot better.
And I'll tell you, what I seeis that I have a lot of eighth
graders this year that aremoving up and I'm getting a lot
of sixth graders to replace them.
And I'm like man, but I gotthese guys trained.
(31:06):
I get to start over fromscratch, but the maturity level
and the independence that theyshow, and that is my reward.
What is rewarding?
And you know what?
Some of them are doing thingslike perfect squares and doing
some high level math stuff andhigh level reading.
(31:27):
They're reading where theyweren't reading before.
They're inferencing, they'redoing some of these things that
they weren't doing before, butguess what?
They're not doing them untileighth grade because it took
some time to get there.
And so looking, I reallystarted looking at my classroom
as that whole three year segmentof time right and not this one
(31:49):
little segment of time, anddoing so has helped my
instruction.
It's helped them to be moresuccessful and it's helped me
not to be so frustrated whenthey don't get it the first time
or the second time or the 20thtime Right, and it's made a big
difference there.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Well, I'm going to call you Miss McMillan, because
that's just what I do.
We are coming towards the endof our time together, so there's
a couple of things that I wantto mention and get you to kind
of answer some questions.
As far as your book, it'scalled Ending the Power Struggle
Five Strategies for Parents ofChildren with Disabilities, and
(32:29):
where could somebody find thatbook?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
So it's on Amazon Just go to Amazon and look that
up, and it's right there.
You can order.
It's available either inpaperback or you can do a
digital download.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Excellent, and what's really cool is a lot of the
things that you talked aboutusing in your classrooms do
transfer into the home and thatthese same practices parents can
use in helping to raise theirkids.
But, Heather, I got onequestion for you that I didn't
(33:06):
actually prepare for you, but Iknow that it's okay.
I know that your faith is avery big part of your life and
your family's life.
I know you and Mark.
I've known Mark for a long timeas well.
Can you tell me and thelistener the difference that the
Lord has made in your life whenit comes to how you do your job
as a special education teacher?
Speaker 3 (33:28):
So I believe for me and for many special ed teachers
that I come across, it's acalling right.
Everybody says to me how canyou do this for 25 years?
Right, it's hard, and I don'tdisagree, it's hard, but it's
made such a difference becausesometimes, honestly, when I
can't figure out that kid andwhat to do with that kid, I
(33:52):
found myself stopping prayingabout it.
What do I need to do?
Right, and that's huge, and itchanges my perspective on why I
do it Right.
It's not just about theacademics and even the making
sure that they get you know someof those life skills.
(34:12):
It's about loving them.
These are kids and familiesthat just need to be loved.
Yes, ma'am, and that's really abig part of what I try to do.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, and, like I said before, I'm here to say
that you do it well.
As fellow teachers, you'recertainly someone that we look
up to and that we learn from.
And then, as parents of astudent with special needs just
the investment that you made inour own son's life we could
never thank you enough for that.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I love Sandron.
I love doing my job.
There are days that it'sexhausting, but it's more than a
job, it's truly a ministry.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
From the way I approach it.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
So yes, ma'am.
Well, I appreciate that we'regoing to go ahead and wrap this
thing up.
Mrs Curtis, you got anythingyou want to say?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I don't think so.
I think y'all covered it, thatwas great, wasn't it?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I felt like I was back in school.
I'm just sitting listening.
I should have been taking notes, but it's okay, I recorded it,
so it's good.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
And you got the book.
There you go, and I got thebook.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
I got the book right here.
I'm fantastic.
I recommend it to anybody thateither A has questions about how
to raise their child with adisability, or even on the other
side, if you know somebody thathas a child with a disability
that could use it, check it outand.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
I think even as a teacher, you know there are some
good things in there.
They apply to the classroom,because it's not that much
different, right?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, it's really not, and
that's why I was getting readyto say even for you know,
teachers, new or veteranteachers, if you're at a point,
you know, new teachers arealways looking for something and
veteran teachers are alwayslooking for different things,
that different ways.
You may not have looked fromperspective and so, yeah, I
think it is.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Our classroom is like a family.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It becomes like a family.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
We keep those kids for so long.
I mean good and bad parts offamily, it's all together.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
And families don't always get along.
That's what I've had to sayListen, we're a family, but
families don't always get along.
You just got to figure out howto get over it.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
That's right.
Well, thank you.
Thank you again, Heather.
Thank you so much for your time.
We are looking forward to moreconversations in the future.
All right, bye.
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