May 17, 2025 • 28 mins
Every parent knows the challenge of a child's first haircut—the tears, the squirms, the fear. Now imagine that experience amplified by sensory sensitivities or communication barriers. For countless families of children with disabilities, something as routine as a haircut can become an overwhelming ordeal.
Meet Brianna Wells, a hairstylist who transformed her career path from aspiring kindergarten teacher to specialized children's stylist. Working at Cookie Cutters salon in Yulee, Florida, Brianna has created a safe space where children with sensory sensitivities, autism, and various disabilities can receive haircuts in a supportive environment. With approximately 40% of her clientele having special needs, she's developed innovative approaches through careful observation and communication.
The magic in Brianna's technique lies not in specialized training but in her willingness to listen and adapt. "I focus on acknowledging their comfort in whatever way they express it and leading with that," she explains. Whether using sensory toys for distraction, learning from ABA specialists who accompany clients, or tracking detailed notes about each child's preferences, Brianna tailors each haircut experience to the individual. Her success stories include children who once required 45-minute appointments filled with tears now sitting calmly for 15-minute cuts.
Beyond techniques, Brianna emphasizes the importance of persistence. "Don't give up. Be persistent. The more consistent you are with these experiences, the better results you'll see," she advises parents. This philosophy mirrors what other specialists in the disability field consistently recommend—doing the challenging work now creates independence and confidence later.
Whether you're a parent of a child with sensory sensitivities or a professional working with special needs populations, this episode offers valuable insights into creating inclusive experiences. Subscribe now to hear more conversations with experts who are reimagining how we serve children with disabilities in everyday settings.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
so we are crawling out of the starting blocks of
for this episode.
At the time of the recording,we have seven days of school
left.
Seven yes seven.
It's been a long, hard,treacherous road and I'm ready
(00:30):
for that summer break.
You know how we get off for twomonths, right, all teachers,
they get off for two months.
It's like I think some peopledon't understand that we don't
get paid for those two months,so that doesn't even make a
whole lot of sense.
But, I digress.
It doesn't even make a wholelot of sense, but I digress.
So we've had some fantasticguests with us over our long
(00:52):
20-something episodes ofexperience and it's been really
cool because we've had teachersthat Xander's worked with, we've
had friends of ours that areteachers, and so there's all
these really cool connectionsand different people we get to
talk to.
But for this episode we get totalk to a young lady that we
(01:16):
have known for a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
As a matter of fact, even longer.
Yeah, like, I think, middleschools.
I think you're right, does itsound right?
You're in?
(01:47):
Yeah, I was 12, almost 20 years, yeah, and this, this poor girl
, she's had to deal with notonly me in her life all that
time, her dad in her life allthat time, but her dad and I
becoming fantastically goodfriends as well, and so I'm
excited to talk to her and tosee what she has to say, because
she is well, she overcame thatand is doing some great things.
So I'm going to go ahead andlet Laura introduce our guest
for this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
All right.
So, as you stated, we haveknown her for many, many years
and seen, I think, manydifferent phases of her life and
, as far as being involved withchildren, she was one of
Xander's babysitters during somepoints of his life and at one
(02:17):
point she wanted to be akindergarten teacher.
But she's also extremelycreative, artistic and talented
and she found a way to mesh herwant to serve children and her
artistic abilities by going tocosmetology school and she's
found her niche in niche, nichewhatever.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Well, down here we just call it nichey.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Okay, we in the South the Niche and she and she cuts
children's hair and she hasreally created a name for
herself because she welcomes andencourages the parents of
children with disabilities tocome see her, because she does a
(03:02):
fantastic job in in workingwith those children.
And this is Brianna Wells Ikeep trying to call you Kilner.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
It's okay.
Legally it's Kilner, but I'lltake the Wells, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So, like Jared said, we've known her for a long, long
time and we get so excited thatwe get to refer and recommend
her for some of our students.
And she's done research andreading and experience and
working with students withspecial needs, especially the
(03:39):
ones that sensory sensitivitiesand um, she has found a way to
to put it all together and stillget these young as haircut and
that's huge Cause.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
That was one of those things.
That was Xander.
It just took us forever to findLike.
I used to just shave the kid'shead and it sounds horrible, but
that's all I could do.
I'd take some clippers too,because he hated the sound of
the shears cutting the hair, andthat really bugged him.
But what I do want to say, too,is not only does she do this,
she does it well, becausethere's a lot of people out
(04:14):
there that have jobs in certainfields that they really
shouldn't right.
That's true, and I mean, weknow teachers, we know
politicians I think allpoliticians are horrible, but
anyway, I digress.
But she's good at it as well.
So, yes, go ahead.
We're going to start with thequestions.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, I think I just want to start and lay the
foundation.
So how did this happen, breon?
How did you go from possiblekindergarten teacher to
cosmetology school, to where youare now?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Well, some of my life choices didn't align with the
direction I was going at thetime, admittedly.
So I kind of had a hard yearonce I stopped going to college
and I just worked a lot.
Um and through that I was alsodoing my friend's hair, like in
my bathroom.
(05:12):
So I kind of realized I like todo it.
And I started dating my husbandnow and he was like so why
don't you do it?
And I was like, oh, I wasn'texpecting that challenge.
But you're right, why don't Ido it?
So I decided to move in withhim, move to Jacksonville and
take it on.
And you know, I really didn'tthink I was that good at it at
(05:33):
first, to be completely honestwith you.
So I ended up fast forward, Igraduate, get into my dream
salon, and it was really hard.
I was met with a lot ofpersonal conflicts and so I
walked away from it for a whileand I worked at Starbucks and
well, I had Harper, and then Iwent back to Starbucks because
(05:55):
that's what I did when I was incosmetology school and that's
just what I did for a while.
And then I ended up back inanother hair salon and didn't
like it.
I didn't like the location.
So I quit and went back toStarbucks and had Landon.
So meanwhile all this, whileI'm pregnant with Landon they
(06:16):
open up cookie cutters in Yuleeand I was like, interesting,
I've never heard of a children'ssalon.
I might be able to do that, butI want them to be open for a
year before I consider that.
So I waited and I was pregnant,so I kind of had to wait a
little bit and continued my timeat Starbucks until I was done
(06:37):
and about four months after Ihad him, I saw they were hiring
on Indeed.
So I just kind of went after itand I went in and well, covid
happened.
I got hired, covid happened.
But my first day in there I waslike what am I doing here?
(06:59):
What did I walk into?
Because it was just insane.
I was like I don't know if Icould do this.
This is not what I thought.
I'm sitting here thinking it'sgoing to be all cutesy.
You know, I'm going to get tokind of tinker with some cute
hairstyles and boost kids'confidence, and yes, I get to do
that.
But I didn't take intoconsideration the other side of
the fence.
So you know, there beingchildren with special needs or
(07:23):
just babies in general, likethis, is all new to them.
So the first year was reallyhard and I wanted to quit a lot.
I had a really hard time, butthen I had a shift at one point
and I was like maybe, if I justpay attention a little different
, this, this could work.
And so now I've been there forfive years.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Just like that.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
There it was.
So is there?
You know you talked about thesekids with some disabilities and
the babies, and a lot of thatcomes along with those sensory
issues, and is there anythingthat you found that in
particular, that works for?
We know that there are.
(08:03):
You know, all the students, allchildren, students children,
you know, are different and havedifferent sensitivities, like
you know, there's you know touch, sound and having their hair
wet or washed.
Like Xander did not like thesound of the shears.
He could do the clippers andfor a long time he did not like
the sound of the shears anduntil he was maybe about nine or
(08:26):
ten, like jared said, he alwayshad to just get bushy and he'd
shave it off.
And then it'd get bushy andhe'd shave it off.
So what did, what did you do tohelp overcome that with these
kids?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
well, the first thing I did when I realized something
needed to change in my methodsUm, cause I would just get
overwhelmed prior to I juststarted asking questions, um,
and being a lot more vocal withthe child.
Because if you just come up toa child any child really, but
especially one with sensoryissues if you just walk up with
(08:58):
them with this loud device,they're going to freak out.
You know, it goes hand in handwith children that have had a
lot of hospital visits they alsoor a lot of ear infections.
They also tend to have somesensitivity because of those
experiences.
But really I just I started witha lot of questions and then I
got my first experience with anABA specialist where I could
(09:21):
actually pick her brain and askher what am I supposed to do?
Like I know there's somethingthat I could be doing a little
better or I would just simplywatch and observe, like how this
specialist was communicatingwith the child, what things
worked, whether it be we'regoing to count, and in that
(09:44):
counting time I would have to bereally fast and get through
something.
And once I got comfortableenough to start to exhibit that
in my own way, then I started tosee a lot of more improvements,
but yeah, basically just makingsure that they're aware it's
safe, you know.
If they say I'm scared, okay,what are you scared of?
(10:05):
Let me help reassure you thatthis?
isn't something to be scared of.
Let me help reassure you thatthis isn't something to be
scared of.
It's okay that you're scared,et cetera.
You know just a lot ofcommunication.
And for children that arenonverbal, I focus a lot on how
the parents interact with them.
Sometimes that's not how, it'snot effective, so I do have to
kind of step in, but for themost part I just kind of watch
(10:29):
and observe.
If they cower to me, goingcloser to the touch, well then,
ok, I know that it's thevibration, maybe we should go
with shears.
Or if they're afraid of gettingcut and they fixate on being
cut, ok, well then we should doa buzz cut, just kind of
acknowledging their comforts inwhatever way they express it and
leading with that.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And we have found that that type of approach
really is more successfulwhenever working with these
children, because so we can saythat all kids are different and
there's some some truth to that,but at the same time there's a
lot of similarities when youstart looking at the autism
spectrum.
But the best way to serve anyof these kids and I guess,
(11:14):
pretty much humanity in general,is to listen, is to pay
attention, to see the thingsthat move them, what are the
things that excite them, whatare the things that, like you
said, that scare them.
And then you look at how can Ireplace that, how can I replace
that fear, how can I replacethat discomfort and then, at the
same time, give them a goodhaircut?
(11:35):
And so we see that a lot in,like I said, in the special
education field, all the wayaround, and that's definitely
one of those suggestions thatyou throw out.
There is, hey, step one, watchand listen.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Watch and listen.
So do you have a lot of repeatclients come in?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yes, I would say and you know this is a very wide
variety of sensory or childrenon the spectrum, but I'd say
about 40% of my clientele havesome form of sensory um hardship
, or are nonverbal um or justdisabled, like cannot walk on
(12:25):
their own or in a wheelchair,cannot communicate or really
kind of break down what's beingsaid.
So yeah, there's a wide varietyof children with special needs
that I serve.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I know we talked a bit about you know you being
around Zander for a good portionof his life and that you did
start school, but other thanthat, have you had any specific
trainings or experiences workingwith children with different
disabilities?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
No, I just kind of learned as I went and I have a
pretty decent memory with thesethings when it comes to details
about people, and so I alwaysknow what worked, what didn't
work, and if it's something thatI'm not going to remember, I do
(13:16):
keep track of it.
We have the ability to, like,put notes in our system.
So you know, if I have a childthat fluctuates a lot like one
day I can do a haircut in 15minutes, it was great.
And the next time they come inwell, that one took 30 and they
were angry, they were crying,like.
I keep track of all of that sothat I know what their progress
looks like, cause sometimes itjust isn't there.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So it's important for me to know why you know that's,
that's something that they,they teach us.
So don't just try to figure out.
You're not just trying tofigure out how to calm them down
.
You're trying to figure out whythey're upset.
Yes, and that's huge, Becauseif you can figure that out, then
(14:02):
you can use those replacementbehaviors and teach them how to
adjust and how to be okay withwhat you're getting ready to do.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, yeah, we can keep going.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
But yeah, no, I don't have any certifications, I
don't have any trainings.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I don't have anything like that.
People ask me though, to go tocertain training I'm like no.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
No, I know that you are not afraid to ask questions
and I, you know, you, you knowwe've had conversations and you,
you know, messaged us a fewtimes about okay, so what about
this and what do you think aboutthat.
And I know you've read up on itand and done your research on
your own and I think that's justfantastic and it's pretty cool
to be able to say, hey, I knowsomebody when these parents are
like, oh, his hair's gettinglong.
(14:58):
We have a mini Xander in ourclass.
He has the hair like Xander.
He runs around the room likeXander did.
And she's like, oh yeah, and hehas the curls.
And she's like, oh yeah, and hehas the curls.
And she's like my husband'sgetting ready to cut his hair
and he's going to cut all hiscurls off and he's just going to
have to use the clippers.
And I was like, hey, wait, Iknow someone.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
We got a person.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
And they came to you.
She was so excited that she gotto take our little man down
there to see you, and she was sonervous at first too, and she
told me and but yeah, it's, it'sreally, it's really pretty neat
to do that and be able to sendthese people down and know that
there is there is an option.
(15:45):
And yeah, um, because the moreand more we can include our, our
children with disabilities intoeveryday life and more they can
experience, then I feel thatthey know the more benefits that
they they will have almost kindof like a desensitize
(16:06):
desensitizing them to how thingswork so that it isn't as
impactful, right, you know, likein a negative way it can be
more of a positive impact.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Something else that I've realized is having like
stem toys or like some type ofsensory toy helps a lot too Like
.
In that case, his favorite thingwas this little puzzle that
just you had these little ballsthat had to be pushed up and it
had a rotation to it and that'show I got through that haircut.
You know, it's just kind offiguring out like, okay, this is
(16:40):
just new, well, how can I kindof bring an element that isn't
into this experience right now?
So, yeah, that's another,another tool that has been
important to have.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, you know, haircuts aren't typically
something that people think ofwhen they think of, you know,
having a child that is on thespectrum or has whatever
disability or whatever.
Because you always focus onwhat may be considered and let
me qualify this after I say itsomething that might be
(17:13):
considered more important, right?
Because you think about, oh,the feeding possible and you
want them to be able toexperience life as close to
(17:34):
normal as possible.
And so when you start talkingabout things like that, it does
go way past the typical bigissues.
But the going to a store right,xander going to a store was
hard, taking him to do somethinglike that.
But getting a haircut going tothe store was hard, taking him
to do something like that.
But getting a haircut going tothe dentist, right.
All of these other things thatwe don't think about very often.
(17:58):
And the truth is that the peoplethat work with students and
individuals with disabilities,they have to have a desire to
serve that group.
If they don't, then there is waymore frustration, and I'm sure
there's been plenty of peoplethat took the same route you did
and bailed Because theyprobably entered wanting to just
(18:22):
do hair.
But it takes a special personto really, like you were saying,
pay attention and to love themand want them to have an
experience that is positive andreally reinforces their desire
to try new things.
(18:42):
I know with Xander, one of thethings we did when he started
eating was we would ask him totry stuff, and if he tried it
and didn't like it, it's likecool, you don't have to eat it
because you tried it.
And so what they did is allowedhim to gain a sense of
confidence when trying things,knowing that, even if it's
disgusting, I don't have to doit again, and so it sounds like
(19:05):
the same process that you'retalking about when it comes to
getting a haircut.
I mean, this is somethingthey're going to be doing for
the rest of their lives.
Yeah, they're going to begetting haircuts.
That's right, and so you aresetting them up with coping
mechanisms that will allow themto again function better, in a
general sense, in the worldaround them, and I think that's
(19:26):
fantastic.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Thanks.
Yeah, it's been a journey, andI mean I've got all different
ages too, so I've seen one.
I have one young man that I'venot been doing his hair directly
for the five years, but I havebeen for the last year and a
half and it's just so cool tosee that breakthrough moment.
You know, because, on thespectrum or not, we all have a
brain.
(19:49):
We all have like access pointsand ways to open it up and to
see that in children that have,you know, a harder time
deciphering what that is is,it's incredible.
I really have a lot of joy.
And when I can then get to apoint where I can communicate
and get a yes or a no out of thechild, that's even better.
(20:11):
Like you don't have to say much, if I can.
You know that your yes is a yesand you know your no is a no.
That's enough for me.
We can do this Absolutely Welland you're building those
relationships and you know yourno is a no.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's enough for me.
We can do this absolutely welland you're building those
relationships and you'rebuilding trust with them and
that's the biggest part yes, yepand so they know that, like, so
they're not gonna, you're notgonna hurt them, and these
sounds aren't gonna hurt and, um, even though this thing looks
very sharp and pointy, you know,so there's gonna be in your ear
(20:39):
.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yep, what is?
What is the age group that youguys work with?
Speaker 3 (20:45):
We take as young as six months old.
If the parents think the childneeds a haircut to adults, we
don't really have a restriction.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh, very cool.
See, now I know I would nothave been that six month old kid
because my head looked like acue ball.
Actually, it looked more like abowling ball on a toothpick
because my head is gigantic.
It really is.
It's a very large head and thathas absolutely nothing to do
with what we're talking about.
I do know this, brian.
(21:17):
I know that.
I know your parents are superproud of you and it's funny
because we have theseconversations and I can hear
them both when you're talking,and it's really exciting because
they are great people.
We love them to death.
They're close friends of oursand this has nothing to do with
cutting hair, but I did theirwedding, that's right.
(21:38):
That's right.
I was around from the time thatshe was in middle school.
So she's all grown up and gotmarried.
And have young'uns.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And babies Cute babies too.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Do you have any other questions for Mrs Curtis?
Because I'm going to hit herwith the big one, the big one,
the big one.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
They're gonna big one , big one.
I mean she's she.
I think she was pretty uminformative yes, yes, I.
I don't know if I have anyother questions I did.
I do want to actually go backwhen you're talking about the
ABA therapist.
Was that an incident where theycame in with a client, or were
(22:23):
they a parent?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Yes, with a client I've had two.
The first one, the child, hadher for, I think, about three or
four haircuts.
It was a military situation Dadwas deployed, mom was pregnant,
so she came in to kind of helpand the first haircut took 45
minutes and we are now down toabout 15 and there's no
(22:49):
specialist.
Um, we're having somecommunication changes that we're
working through, but I am doingmy best to understand.
And then I have another one whoI think he's four right now and
his specialist comes every time.
They've been seeing me forabout a year and she's come
every time for that whole time.
(23:09):
This last one she tried toleave the building but they have
pictures of her on the phone tokind of associate that she's
still there.
But I think they're in theprocess of transitioning her out
of that experience.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Right Giving him some independence.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, I've been able to talk with her a lot, though,
you know, pick her brain, askwhy she got into doing this, or
I have mirrored a lot of hercommunication tactics.
Maybe not they don't alwayswork, but they're always worth a
shot to try if I don't knowwhat to do.
Um, so she's the one thattaught me that the short and
(23:48):
direct responses are alwaysaccepted better.
You know, it's like I feel likethat's just child development
in general, but especially likein this situation, like I have
to be very three word, answer,right Short, and it's it's
helped a lot.
So I feel literal and yes, Ifeel blessed to have been able
(24:08):
to learn from these ladies,cause you know, again I'm just
kind of out here doing my best,right Figuring it out as I go.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So we didn't even know that that was an option
until we spoke with Rebecca andDavid.
We had are they RBTs?
No, they're more than thatBCBAs.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I don't know all the letters.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I'm getting it messed up, but they come into the
schools and work, and they alsowork at a private facility too,
and I think that was one of thethings that he talked about,
that going out in the communityand we were like, what do you
mean you go out in the community?
And he said, well, yeah, I'vegone here, I've gone down, even
gone to a haircut, and huh, okay, so that's.
I think that's great that theyprovide that.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It's really awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
All right, here comes the big question you ready?
Okay, what is your dad'sdeepest, darkest?
No, I'm just kidding.
No, let's not go with that.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
We don't want to go there.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I actually don't know , so that would have been fine.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Ooh good.
No, my real question is this,though let's play a fun little
game.
This is the last time that youwill get to make a statement
concerning what you do and thenot only what you do from a
professional standpoint, butwhat you do from a relational
(25:29):
standpoint and nobody will everhear your voice again on this
conversation.
This is your last chance.
What would you say?
Speaker 3 (25:46):
this conversation.
This is your last chance whatwould you say?
In regards to aiding theexperience of a haircut Sounds
good.
Okay, I'm like there's a lot ofavenues of this question here.
That is a big one, man, I don'tknow.
Just don't give up, Bepersistent.
You know, I see a lot ofparents that they they won't
come in often because they'reafraid Plow through that Like
(26:10):
just keep trying, because themore consistent you are with
these experiences whether it's ahaircut or just, you know,
community exposure you have tokeep doing it.
Like, and even when it's hard,you can always walk out.
You know you don't have to stayand create a traumatic
experience.
You can just say, okay, let'stry again next week, but keep
(26:32):
doing it, because thatinconsistency is just not
helpful for the overallexperience.
So I think that's really it,because I could say all these
other things and I could giveall these other insights, but I
do think that just persistenceis the key and to remain
graceful, to have grace.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
That is huge.
That is like my fuel.
I pour that in my coffee, right.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Absolutely.
She's, you know, has goingalong with our conversation with
lindsey about.
You know that, yeah, thesethese lives of parenting
children with disabilities aremessy, but the people that serve
your kids, they're okay withthat mess and and to keep trying
(27:20):
and do the hard work now.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I mean, what you're saying is kind of a common theme
amongst our conversations withdifferent professions, right?
Whether it is an ABA therapistor a hairstylist or an
occupational therapist orwhatever, it is that same.
Do the hard work now.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Stick with it, stick with it, stick with it and it
will pay off and if you're, ifyou are a parent looking for
somebody to serve your child andlove your child while they get
their haircut.
If you're not local, find you abrianna.
If you are local, let me haveone and we can and we can, uh,
hook you up with where, where togo yeah, I'm there every week
(27:59):
and that again.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
That was.
That's Cookie Cutters, right,cookie Cutters in Yulee, in
Yulee, florida, fantastic.
But hey, we have no problempushing that.
Brianna, thank you so much forhanging out with us, yeah thanks
for having me and having thisconversation and we love you.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Oh, I love you guys too.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
There's not a whole lot of guests.
I think we said it to my mom,yeah Right, so see you're in
really good company.
But no, really thank you and assomeone that has had the
opportunity to watch you grow up, I'm super proud of you, as
Laura is too.
Thank you so much and we loveyour heart and keep doing what
(28:36):
you're doing.
You're appreciated.
Thank you, all right, and Ithink that's we're going to wrap
this episode up and we'll getit again next week.
We'll see you later.
so we are crawling out of the starting blocks of
for this episode.
At the time of the recording,we have seven days of school
left.
Seven yes seven.
It's been a long, hard,treacherous road and I'm ready
(00:30):
for that summer break.
You know how we get off for twomonths, right, all teachers,
they get off for two months.
It's like I think some peopledon't understand that we don't
get paid for those two months,so that doesn't even make a
whole lot of sense.
But, I digress.
It doesn't even make a wholelot of sense, but I digress.
So we've had some fantasticguests with us over our long
(00:52):
20-something episodes ofexperience and it's been really
cool because we've had teachersthat Xander's worked with, we've
had friends of ours that areteachers, and so there's all
these really cool connectionsand different people we get to
talk to.
But for this episode we get totalk to a young lady that we
(01:16):
have known for a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
As a matter of fact, even longer.
Yeah, like, I think, middleschools.
I think you're right, does itsound right?
You're in?
(01:47):
Yeah, I was 12, almost 20 years, yeah, and this, this poor girl
, she's had to deal with notonly me in her life all that
time, her dad in her life allthat time, but her dad and I
becoming fantastically goodfriends as well, and so I'm
excited to talk to her and tosee what she has to say, because
she is well, she overcame thatand is doing some great things.
So I'm going to go ahead andlet Laura introduce our guest
for this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
All right.
So, as you stated, we haveknown her for many, many years
and seen, I think, manydifferent phases of her life and
, as far as being involved withchildren, she was one of
Xander's babysitters during somepoints of his life and at one
(02:17):
point she wanted to be akindergarten teacher.
But she's also extremelycreative, artistic and talented
and she found a way to mesh herwant to serve children and her
artistic abilities by going tocosmetology school and she's
found her niche in niche, nichewhatever.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Well, down here we just call it nichey.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Okay, we in the South the Niche and she and she cuts
children's hair and she hasreally created a name for
herself because she welcomes andencourages the parents of
children with disabilities tocome see her, because she does a
(03:02):
fantastic job in in workingwith those children.
And this is Brianna Wells Ikeep trying to call you Kilner.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
It's okay.
Legally it's Kilner, but I'lltake the Wells, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So, like Jared said, we've known her for a long, long
time and we get so excited thatwe get to refer and recommend
her for some of our students.
And she's done research andreading and experience and
working with students withspecial needs, especially the
(03:39):
ones that sensory sensitivitiesand um, she has found a way to
to put it all together and stillget these young as haircut and
that's huge Cause.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
That was one of those things.
That was Xander.
It just took us forever to findLike.
I used to just shave the kid'shead and it sounds horrible, but
that's all I could do.
I'd take some clippers too,because he hated the sound of
the shears cutting the hair, andthat really bugged him.
But what I do want to say, too,is not only does she do this,
she does it well, becausethere's a lot of people out
(04:14):
there that have jobs in certainfields that they really
shouldn't right.
That's true, and I mean, weknow teachers, we know
politicians I think allpoliticians are horrible, but
anyway, I digress.
But she's good at it as well.
So, yes, go ahead.
We're going to start with thequestions.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, I think I just want to start and lay the
foundation.
So how did this happen, breon?
How did you go from possiblekindergarten teacher to
cosmetology school, to where youare now?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Well, some of my life choices didn't align with the
direction I was going at thetime, admittedly.
So I kind of had a hard yearonce I stopped going to college
and I just worked a lot.
Um and through that I was alsodoing my friend's hair, like in
my bathroom.
(05:12):
So I kind of realized I like todo it.
And I started dating my husbandnow and he was like so why
don't you do it?
And I was like, oh, I wasn'texpecting that challenge.
But you're right, why don't Ido it?
So I decided to move in withhim, move to Jacksonville and
take it on.
And you know, I really didn'tthink I was that good at it at
(05:33):
first, to be completely honestwith you.
So I ended up fast forward, Igraduate, get into my dream
salon, and it was really hard.
I was met with a lot ofpersonal conflicts and so I
walked away from it for a whileand I worked at Starbucks and
well, I had Harper, and then Iwent back to Starbucks because
(05:55):
that's what I did when I was incosmetology school and that's
just what I did for a while.
And then I ended up back inanother hair salon and didn't
like it.
I didn't like the location.
So I quit and went back toStarbucks and had Landon.
So meanwhile all this, whileI'm pregnant with Landon they
(06:16):
open up cookie cutters in Yuleeand I was like, interesting,
I've never heard of a children'ssalon.
I might be able to do that, butI want them to be open for a
year before I consider that.
So I waited and I was pregnant,so I kind of had to wait a
little bit and continued my timeat Starbucks until I was done
(06:37):
and about four months after Ihad him, I saw they were hiring
on Indeed.
So I just kind of went after itand I went in and well, covid
happened.
I got hired, covid happened.
But my first day in there I waslike what am I doing here?
(06:59):
What did I walk into?
Because it was just insane.
I was like I don't know if Icould do this.
This is not what I thought.
I'm sitting here thinking it'sgoing to be all cutesy.
You know, I'm going to get tokind of tinker with some cute
hairstyles and boost kids'confidence, and yes, I get to do
that.
But I didn't take intoconsideration the other side of
the fence.
So you know, there beingchildren with special needs or
(07:23):
just babies in general, likethis, is all new to them.
So the first year was reallyhard and I wanted to quit a lot.
I had a really hard time, butthen I had a shift at one point
and I was like maybe, if I justpay attention a little different
, this, this could work.
And so now I've been there forfive years.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Just like that.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
There it was.
So is there?
You know you talked about thesekids with some disabilities and
the babies, and a lot of thatcomes along with those sensory
issues, and is there anythingthat you found that in
particular, that works for?
We know that there are.
(08:03):
You know, all the students, allchildren, students children,
you know, are different and havedifferent sensitivities, like
you know, there's you know touch, sound and having their hair
wet or washed.
Like Xander did not like thesound of the shears.
He could do the clippers andfor a long time he did not like
the sound of the shears anduntil he was maybe about nine or
(08:26):
ten, like jared said, he alwayshad to just get bushy and he'd
shave it off.
And then it'd get bushy andhe'd shave it off.
So what did, what did you do tohelp overcome that with these
kids?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
well, the first thing I did when I realized something
needed to change in my methodsUm, cause I would just get
overwhelmed prior to I juststarted asking questions, um,
and being a lot more vocal withthe child.
Because if you just come up toa child any child really, but
especially one with sensoryissues if you just walk up with
(08:58):
them with this loud device,they're going to freak out.
You know, it goes hand in handwith children that have had a
lot of hospital visits they alsoor a lot of ear infections.
They also tend to have somesensitivity because of those
experiences.
But really I just I started witha lot of questions and then I
got my first experience with anABA specialist where I could
(09:21):
actually pick her brain and askher what am I supposed to do?
Like I know there's somethingthat I could be doing a little
better or I would just simplywatch and observe, like how this
specialist was communicatingwith the child, what things
worked, whether it be we'regoing to count, and in that
(09:44):
counting time I would have to bereally fast and get through
something.
And once I got comfortableenough to start to exhibit that
in my own way, then I started tosee a lot of more improvements,
but yeah, basically just makingsure that they're aware it's
safe, you know.
If they say I'm scared, okay,what are you scared of?
(10:05):
Let me help reassure you thatthis?
isn't something to be scared of.
Let me help reassure you thatthis isn't something to be
scared of.
It's okay that you're scared,et cetera.
You know just a lot ofcommunication.
And for children that arenonverbal, I focus a lot on how
the parents interact with them.
Sometimes that's not how, it'snot effective, so I do have to
kind of step in, but for themost part I just kind of watch
(10:29):
and observe.
If they cower to me, goingcloser to the touch, well then,
ok, I know that it's thevibration, maybe we should go
with shears.
Or if they're afraid of gettingcut and they fixate on being
cut, ok, well then we should doa buzz cut, just kind of
acknowledging their comforts inwhatever way they express it and
leading with that.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And we have found that that type of approach
really is more successfulwhenever working with these
children, because so we can saythat all kids are different and
there's some some truth to that,but at the same time there's a
lot of similarities when youstart looking at the autism
spectrum.
But the best way to serve anyof these kids and I guess,
(11:14):
pretty much humanity in general,is to listen, is to pay
attention, to see the thingsthat move them, what are the
things that excite them, whatare the things that, like you
said, that scare them.
And then you look at how can Ireplace that, how can I replace
that fear, how can I replacethat discomfort and then, at the
same time, give them a goodhaircut?
(11:35):
And so we see that a lot in,like I said, in the special
education field, all the wayaround, and that's definitely
one of those suggestions thatyou throw out.
There is, hey, step one, watchand listen.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Watch and listen.
So do you have a lot of repeatclients come in?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yes, I would say and you know this is a very wide
variety of sensory or childrenon the spectrum, but I'd say
about 40% of my clientele havesome form of sensory um hardship
, or are nonverbal um or justdisabled, like cannot walk on
(12:25):
their own or in a wheelchair,cannot communicate or really
kind of break down what's beingsaid.
So yeah, there's a wide varietyof children with special needs
that I serve.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I know we talked a bit about you know you being
around Zander for a good portionof his life and that you did
start school, but other thanthat, have you had any specific
trainings or experiences workingwith children with different
disabilities?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
No, I just kind of learned as I went and I have a
pretty decent memory with thesethings when it comes to details
about people, and so I alwaysknow what worked, what didn't
work, and if it's something thatI'm not going to remember, I do
(13:16):
keep track of it.
We have the ability to, like,put notes in our system.
So you know, if I have a childthat fluctuates a lot like one
day I can do a haircut in 15minutes, it was great.
And the next time they come inwell, that one took 30 and they
were angry, they were crying,like.
I keep track of all of that sothat I know what their progress
looks like, cause sometimes itjust isn't there.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So it's important for me to know why you know that's,
that's something that they,they teach us.
So don't just try to figure out.
You're not just trying tofigure out how to calm them down
.
You're trying to figure out whythey're upset.
Yes, and that's huge, Becauseif you can figure that out, then
(14:02):
you can use those replacementbehaviors and teach them how to
adjust and how to be okay withwhat you're getting ready to do.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, yeah, we can keep going.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
But yeah, no, I don't have any certifications, I
don't have any trainings.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I don't have anything like that.
People ask me though, to go tocertain training I'm like no.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
No, I know that you are not afraid to ask questions
and I, you know, you, you knowwe've had conversations and you,
you know, messaged us a fewtimes about okay, so what about
this and what do you think aboutthat.
And I know you've read up on itand and done your research on
your own and I think that's justfantastic and it's pretty cool
to be able to say, hey, I knowsomebody when these parents are
like, oh, his hair's gettinglong.
(14:58):
We have a mini Xander in ourclass.
He has the hair like Xander.
He runs around the room likeXander did.
And she's like, oh yeah, and hehas the curls.
And she's like, oh yeah, and hehas the curls.
And she's like my husband'sgetting ready to cut his hair
and he's going to cut all hiscurls off and he's just going to
have to use the clippers.
And I was like, hey, wait, Iknow someone.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
We got a person.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
And they came to you.
She was so excited that she gotto take our little man down
there to see you, and she was sonervous at first too, and she
told me and but yeah, it's, it'sreally, it's really pretty neat
to do that and be able to sendthese people down and know that
there is there is an option.
(15:45):
And yeah, um, because the moreand more we can include our, our
children with disabilities intoeveryday life and more they can
experience, then I feel thatthey know the more benefits that
they they will have almost kindof like a desensitize
(16:06):
desensitizing them to how thingswork so that it isn't as
impactful, right, you know, likein a negative way it can be
more of a positive impact.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Something else that I've realized is having like
stem toys or like some type ofsensory toy helps a lot too Like
.
In that case, his favorite thingwas this little puzzle that
just you had these little ballsthat had to be pushed up and it
had a rotation to it and that'show I got through that haircut.
You know, it's just kind offiguring out like, okay, this is
(16:40):
just new, well, how can I kindof bring an element that isn't
into this experience right now?
So, yeah, that's another,another tool that has been
important to have.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, you know, haircuts aren't typically
something that people think ofwhen they think of, you know,
having a child that is on thespectrum or has whatever
disability or whatever.
Because you always focus onwhat may be considered and let
me qualify this after I say itsomething that might be
(17:13):
considered more important, right?
Because you think about, oh,the feeding possible and you
want them to be able toexperience life as close to
(17:34):
normal as possible.
And so when you start talkingabout things like that, it does
go way past the typical bigissues.
But the going to a store right,xander going to a store was
hard, taking him to do somethinglike that.
But getting a haircut going tothe store was hard, taking him
to do something like that.
But getting a haircut going tothe dentist, right.
All of these other things thatwe don't think about very often.
(17:58):
And the truth is that the peoplethat work with students and
individuals with disabilities,they have to have a desire to
serve that group.
If they don't, then there is waymore frustration, and I'm sure
there's been plenty of peoplethat took the same route you did
and bailed Because theyprobably entered wanting to just
(18:22):
do hair.
But it takes a special personto really, like you were saying,
pay attention and to love themand want them to have an
experience that is positive andreally reinforces their desire
to try new things.
(18:42):
I know with Xander, one of thethings we did when he started
eating was we would ask him totry stuff, and if he tried it
and didn't like it, it's likecool, you don't have to eat it
because you tried it.
And so what they did is allowedhim to gain a sense of
confidence when trying things,knowing that, even if it's
disgusting, I don't have to doit again, and so it sounds like
(19:05):
the same process that you'retalking about when it comes to
getting a haircut.
I mean, this is somethingthey're going to be doing for
the rest of their lives.
Yeah, they're going to begetting haircuts.
That's right, and so you aresetting them up with coping
mechanisms that will allow themto again function better, in a
general sense, in the worldaround them, and I think that's
(19:26):
fantastic.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Thanks.
Yeah, it's been a journey, andI mean I've got all different
ages too, so I've seen one.
I have one young man that I'venot been doing his hair directly
for the five years, but I havebeen for the last year and a
half and it's just so cool tosee that breakthrough moment.
You know, because, on thespectrum or not, we all have a
brain.
(19:49):
We all have like access pointsand ways to open it up and to
see that in children that have,you know, a harder time
deciphering what that is is,it's incredible.
I really have a lot of joy.
And when I can then get to apoint where I can communicate
and get a yes or a no out of thechild, that's even better.
(20:11):
Like you don't have to say much, if I can.
You know that your yes is a yesand you know your no is a no.
That's enough for me.
We can do this Absolutely Welland you're building those
relationships and you know yourno is a no.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's enough for me.
We can do this absolutely welland you're building those
relationships and you'rebuilding trust with them and
that's the biggest part yes, yepand so they know that, like, so
they're not gonna, you're notgonna hurt them, and these
sounds aren't gonna hurt and, um, even though this thing looks
very sharp and pointy, you know,so there's gonna be in your ear
(20:39):
.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yep, what is?
What is the age group that youguys work with?
Speaker 3 (20:45):
We take as young as six months old.
If the parents think the childneeds a haircut to adults, we
don't really have a restriction.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh, very cool.
See, now I know I would nothave been that six month old kid
because my head looked like acue ball.
Actually, it looked more like abowling ball on a toothpick
because my head is gigantic.
It really is.
It's a very large head and thathas absolutely nothing to do
with what we're talking about.
I do know this, brian.
(21:17):
I know that.
I know your parents are superproud of you and it's funny
because we have theseconversations and I can hear
them both when you're talking,and it's really exciting because
they are great people.
We love them to death.
They're close friends of oursand this has nothing to do with
cutting hair, but I did theirwedding, that's right.
(21:38):
That's right.
I was around from the time thatshe was in middle school.
So she's all grown up and gotmarried.
And have young'uns.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And babies Cute babies too.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Do you have any other questions for Mrs Curtis?
Because I'm going to hit herwith the big one, the big one,
the big one.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
They're gonna big one , big one.
I mean she's she.
I think she was pretty uminformative yes, yes, I.
I don't know if I have anyother questions I did.
I do want to actually go backwhen you're talking about the
ABA therapist.
Was that an incident where theycame in with a client, or were
(22:23):
they a parent?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Yes, with a client I've had two.
The first one, the child, hadher for, I think, about three or
four haircuts.
It was a military situation Dadwas deployed, mom was pregnant,
so she came in to kind of helpand the first haircut took 45
minutes and we are now down toabout 15 and there's no
(22:49):
specialist.
Um, we're having somecommunication changes that we're
working through, but I am doingmy best to understand.
And then I have another one whoI think he's four right now and
his specialist comes every time.
They've been seeing me forabout a year and she's come
every time for that whole time.
(23:09):
This last one she tried toleave the building but they have
pictures of her on the phone tokind of associate that she's
still there.
But I think they're in theprocess of transitioning her out
of that experience.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Right Giving him some independence.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, I've been able to talk with her a lot, though,
you know, pick her brain, askwhy she got into doing this, or
I have mirrored a lot of hercommunication tactics.
Maybe not they don't alwayswork, but they're always worth a
shot to try if I don't knowwhat to do.
Um, so she's the one thattaught me that the short and
(23:48):
direct responses are alwaysaccepted better.
You know, it's like I feel likethat's just child development
in general, but especially likein this situation, like I have
to be very three word, answer,right Short, and it's it's
helped a lot.
So I feel literal and yes, Ifeel blessed to have been able
(24:08):
to learn from these ladies,cause you know, again I'm just
kind of out here doing my best,right Figuring it out as I go.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So we didn't even know that that was an option
until we spoke with Rebecca andDavid.
We had are they RBTs?
No, they're more than thatBCBAs.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I don't know all the letters.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I'm getting it messed up, but they come into the
schools and work, and they alsowork at a private facility too,
and I think that was one of thethings that he talked about,
that going out in the communityand we were like, what do you
mean you go out in the community?
And he said, well, yeah, I'vegone here, I've gone down, even
gone to a haircut, and huh, okay, so that's.
I think that's great that theyprovide that.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
It's really awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
All right, here comes the big question you ready?
Okay, what is your dad'sdeepest, darkest?
No, I'm just kidding.
No, let's not go with that.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
We don't want to go there.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I actually don't know , so that would have been fine.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Ooh good.
No, my real question is this,though let's play a fun little
game.
This is the last time that youwill get to make a statement
concerning what you do and thenot only what you do from a
professional standpoint, butwhat you do from a relational
(25:29):
standpoint and nobody will everhear your voice again on this
conversation.
This is your last chance.
What would you say?
Speaker 3 (25:46):
this conversation.
This is your last chance whatwould you say?
In regards to aiding theexperience of a haircut Sounds
good.
Okay, I'm like there's a lot ofavenues of this question here.
That is a big one, man, I don'tknow.
Just don't give up, Bepersistent.
You know, I see a lot ofparents that they they won't
come in often because they'reafraid Plow through that Like
(26:10):
just keep trying, because themore consistent you are with
these experiences whether it's ahaircut or just, you know,
community exposure you have tokeep doing it.
Like, and even when it's hard,you can always walk out.
You know you don't have to stayand create a traumatic
experience.
You can just say, okay, let'stry again next week, but keep
(26:32):
doing it, because thatinconsistency is just not
helpful for the overallexperience.
So I think that's really it,because I could say all these
other things and I could giveall these other insights, but I
do think that just persistenceis the key and to remain
graceful, to have grace.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
That is huge.
That is like my fuel.
I pour that in my coffee, right.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Absolutely.
She's, you know, has goingalong with our conversation with
lindsey about.
You know that, yeah, thesethese lives of parenting
children with disabilities aremessy, but the people that serve
your kids, they're okay withthat mess and and to keep trying
(27:20):
and do the hard work now.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I mean, what you're saying is kind of a common theme
amongst our conversations withdifferent professions, right?
Whether it is an ABA therapistor a hairstylist or an
occupational therapist orwhatever, it is that same.
Do the hard work now.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Stick with it, stick with it, stick with it and it
will pay off and if you're, ifyou are a parent looking for
somebody to serve your child andlove your child while they get
their haircut.
If you're not local, find you abrianna.
If you are local, let me haveone and we can and we can, uh,
hook you up with where, where togo yeah, I'm there every week
(27:59):
and that again.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
That was.
That's Cookie Cutters, right,cookie Cutters in Yulee, in
Yulee, florida, fantastic.
But hey, we have no problempushing that.
Brianna, thank you so much forhanging out with us, yeah thanks
for having me and having thisconversation and we love you.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Oh, I love you guys too.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
There's not a whole lot of guests.
I think we said it to my mom,yeah Right, so see you're in
really good company.
But no, really thank you and assomeone that has had the
opportunity to watch you grow up, I'm super proud of you, as
Laura is too.
Thank you so much and we loveyour heart and keep doing what
(28:36):
you're doing.
You're appreciated.
Thank you, all right, and Ithink that's we're going to wrap
this episode up and we'll getit again next week.
We'll see you later.
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