LLP #125: Do Nice Guys Finish Last?

Ask us a question. We will answer it on the podcast.

Do nice guys really finish last? In this thought-provoking episode, Matt and Eric dive deep into the psychology of masculinity, leadership, and what it truly means to be "nice" versus being effective. Drawing from military experience, relationship dynamics, and business principles, they examine how emotional control and boundary-setting separate respected leaders from forgotten followers.

The hosts explore Coach Corey Wayne's influential "3% Man" philosophy, highlighting how maintaining composure during chaos creates safety for others. They share personal stories about leadership challenges, including Matt's experience setting boundaries in a new relationship that ultimately led to marriage. Through listener comments and their own insights, they establish a crucial distinction: kindness requires courage and boundaries, while "niceness" often masks weakness and people-pleasing behaviors.

The conversation takes fascinating turns through practical examples, from the classic "where should we eat?" question that plagues relationships to the transition many men experience from valuing material possessions to prioritizing meaningful experiences. They examine how leadership positions can be inherently lonely, requiring the emotional fortitude to absorb negativity without passing it along to others.

Whether you're leading a military unit, building a business, or nurturing a relationship, this episode offers valuable perspective on why establishing clear boundaries and maintaining emotional stability matters more than being universally liked. Listen in and discover why the strongest men aren't those who never say "no"—they're those who know exactly when to say it.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back everybody.
This is Eric and Matt, and thisis Life, liberty and the
Pursuit, your beacon of freedomand the American way of life.
Tune in every Monday for a newepisode as we dive into the
world of liberty and what makesour country great.
Welcome back everybody.
This is Matt and Eric, herewith LLP.
I hope you're all having agreat week and thanks so much
for tuning back in.

(00:21):
Llp is your home for all thingsnormal in a world of craziness,
your beacon of hope in a worldgone, completely freaking mad At
least I'd like to think so.
Maybe we're mad too, but hey,you can be mad with us.
So welcome back nonetheless.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yes, everything is normal, nothing out of the
ordinary here.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Everything's normal.
Today's completely normal, notunhinged episode, not at all,
completely not crazy episode.
We're going to talk about whynice guys always finish last.
Now, look, even he and I, wethrew around this idea for a
while.
We're thinking about it like,wow, this can go anywhere and we
knew that this could goanywhere, in such a way that we

(01:04):
actually listed you guys, thelisteners, as some help to
provide some commentary, to letus know what your thought
process is on this whole idea.
We don't have any sponsors intoday's show.
We don't have anything to sell,you guys, all we're doing is
selling hope and we're sellingsome reality, a dose of reality.

(01:25):
And, by the way, if you are acompany that wants to sponsor
the podcast, let us know.
We have some space available onthe show.
If you want to get somesponsorship slots going, we're
happy to shout you out and helpyou sell some stuff and get you
some of those war bucks that'sright which are so elusive these
days, it seems to be.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yep, yep.
Nobody wanted to be associatedwith this show.
He said leave us out, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, we're the misfits here.
Okay, like we're not afraid tokind of take a step back and
point the finger at ourselvesand you.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
That's right, mainly at you.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Now, when we have this Lotus statement now,
obviously it cannot benecessarily just completely true
that that nice guy is alwaysfinished last, but when we look
at that statement as this sortof universal euphemism, what
does it usually entail?
When you think that statement,what do you think when someone
says that you know it's alwaysbeen associated with.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
You know, nice guys finish last because they're not
willing to be as ruthless ortake the risk that is needed in
order to win.
That doesn't mean that they'reincapable of winning.
It just means that they're notaggressive or ruthless enough to
do what's needed to be done inorder to win.

(02:41):
That's the way that I've alwaysinterpreted it growing up.
Whether that's in sports orlife, you're just not willing to
compromise your own morals ordo something that might go
against your initial values inorder to win.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Sure, okay.
I would say that when I hearthat statement, what it's always
meant to me, when we hear, okay, well, nice guys always finish
last, right, I think that it hasto do with the sort of mindset
of a person not being willing tostick to their guns and stand
their ground and stand up forwhat they believe in and to be a

(03:22):
pushover in many, many ways,which, for one, females hate
that.
And look, guys, today we'regoing to talk about the fair
race or fair complexion orwhatever you want to call it.
What do we call the fairer?
The fairer sex?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Okay, we're going to be talking about that in today's
show and I'm going to be givinga shout out to someone who I
respect a lot, and that's coachCorey Wayne.
Giving a shout out to someonewho I respect a lot and that's
Coach Corey Wayne.
If you guys don't follow CoachWayne over on Twitter, make sure
you follow him.
He's got some awesome books andthis is just kind of a shout
out to him.
He's a really great guy and Itell you he opened my mind and
my eyes up to many things inrelation to this sort of subject

(04:00):
matter.
I went down there to his studioand recorded some podcasts with
him and it was real exciting tojust hear some of his takes.
And, of course, I was there tokind of provide commentary,
mainly on 2A stuff.
I know this is a gun channeland I'm not trying to make this
like the relationship advicechannel.
That's not the idea here andthat's not what this video is.

(04:20):
This podcast, rather, thispodcast is more about talking
about general manhood, which canobviously affect every aspect
of your life.
Not just that, but in the caseof Corey Wayne, he really did
open up my eyes to some of thethings that I could do to be
much more effective as a leaderand much more effective as a man
and, ultimately, much moreeffective as a partner to anyone

(04:44):
.
A partnership can be anything.
A partnership can be a businesspartnership between you and a
friend and you agree onsomething and you hold each
other to a standard and you comeup to some mutually beneficial
agreement that works foreveryone, right, but you also
hold each other to the fire inthat agreement.
A relationship can be you know,obviously, husband and wife,
man and woman you're dating.
You're whatever A relationshipcould be.
Husband and wife, man and womanyou're dating.

(05:05):
You're whatever A relationshipcould be.
Hey, maybe someone you deal within the workplace that you don't
like.
Maybe you have to because ofyour vocational situation.
You have to deal with people inyour everyday life that you
actually don't even like.
But you're forced to deal withthem because you work with them.
So you have to try of keep thepeace, to keep your sanity and
go to your day-to-day job.

(05:26):
So a relationship can also be anegative thing, Like, hey,
you're forced to be around acertain person.
Or maybe you work in a type ofenvironment where you have to
deal with the public all thetime.
Maybe you deal in publicrelations in some way, be it
like maybe you're a customerservice representative or you
answer the phone or you work ina call center, or you're working
in some capacity where you haveto deal with the public Right

(05:49):
All of those things equate andrelate essentially to this
overall idea of how to managerelationships in your life and
how to manage being a man, howto be a man in those situations
and be a leader, and I thinkthat's what this, this whole
podcast idea beckons upon OK,and what it what it really calls

(06:10):
to.
And you know, corey, coach Waynereally opened up my eyes to a
lot of things.
He's got some really good bookson the subject that I highly
recommend.
I'm going to put a picture of afew of those.
I think one of them is called3% man, talking about, hey, to
be the 3%, to be the upper 3% ofmasculinity, the upper 3% of

(06:32):
the dating pool, whatever it maybe.
To be that 3% man and I guessI'm not really trying to make
this a giant paraphrasing of hiswork.
I would want people to go andcheck out his published works
because he's great.
But in my mind when I think, hey, nice guys never win, they
always finish last it's like noone wants a pushover.

(06:54):
There's a fine line betweengetting what you want through
you know good leadership, valuesand focus and masculinity and
just letting people walk allover you.
I mean, no one's going torespect a person who just lets
someone always walk all overthem and take advantage of them.
There's a fine line betweenbeing taken advantage of and

(07:16):
going hey, I'm a nice guy, whereI'm going to come up with a
mutually beneficial situationthat works for us, but it's not
going to come at the cost of megiving up my morals, my values.
It's not going to come at thecost of me just being a pushover
in this environment, right?
So when I think of it, that'swhat I think.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
That's a very that's a very good observation, and I
could, I could totally see that.
I think you were looking at itmore from a personal and
relationship aspect, and I waslooking at it more from, like,
the sports aspect.
Sure, because that's just, Iview everything through the lens
of, you know, athletics andsports.
Sure, so well, you think aboutyour students there, the Jiu.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Jitsu Academy, matt, I mean what you teach your
students about winning andlosing, right, we all are going
to lose.
We, right, we all are going tolose.
We all are going to win.
It is, it is.
It is inevitable that youcannot always win.
You can, but you should neveralways have that mindset of
always losing either.
How do you come to terms withaccepting that both of those
things must occur?
Right, your students have tolearn that there's going to be

(08:18):
losses, there's going to bevictories.
And how do you make amends ofthose two things?
How do you get them to focus onbeing better despite all of the
things that could happen?

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Right, I wanted to touch on something that you said
that reminded me of a scenariowhen you said you need to work
with people that you don'tnecessarily like, you have to
get along with them right.
And I think that's somethingthat we learned when we were in
the army, because in the army,you don't necessarily like you
have to get along with themright.
And I I think that's somethingthat we learned when we were in

(08:48):
the army, because in the army,you don't have a choice.
You can't quit like you can't.
You can't be like, oh, I'mgonna quit and find another job.
Like.
It doesn't work that way.
Like you're assigned to yourunit, you, you are who you're
with, you're in your squad,whether you like them or not
they're your family, exactlywhether you like it.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
They're not not just your workforce.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
They're your family, you live with them and you might
not like them.
Honestly, Sometimes they'vebeen in situations where you
don't get along.
You have people from all overthe world and you throw them
together in a hodgepodge of ateam and you have to make it
work and you don't get alongwith everybody.
It's not a kumbaya, homogenousthing.
Oftentimes, yeah and you knowwe had a saying it was like hey,

(09:27):
I have to work with you, but Idon't have to go and hang out
with you and have a beer withyou after we get off or after
hours, but while we're working,like, keep it professional.
Like if they say, hey,so-and-so and so-and-so, you go
do this.
There was no like, I don't wantto do that, Like, you just have
to make it work and you have todo it Damn good Like, because
otherwise you have to do itagain and that is a cornerstone

(09:50):
of masculinity.
It's like learning.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
It's the ability to separate yourself emotionally
from what you're dealing withand go hey, this is the reality
of my moment right here.
This is the reality of what Ihave to go through, this through
, this is a situation that I'mgoing to get through and at the
end of the day, I'm going to bealive and well and I'm not going
to get upset about it.
But I think the nice guy is thetype of person who would take

(10:12):
everything personally, getemotionally responsive about
something, get upset, yell.
All of those are signs ofemotional immaturity.
They're all signs of the lackof emotional control which, yeah
, in a professional sense, noguy wants to be around.
Someone who's emotional all thetime and just gets all uppity
about every little thing andtries to disrupt the overall

(10:33):
energy of the unit, the energyof the workplace, and very much
that same energy can translateto relationships, right?
No woman wants and look, guys,we're getting in this territory.
The truth is, no woman wantsanything to do with a guy who
can't emotionally deal withhimself, who can't compose
himself, who can't lead, whocan't you know, take the moment

(10:54):
and allow her hysteria to existin its own little world of
hysteria and he's just look.
The best relationships, itseems, are like when there's
some unhinged girl or unhingedwoman and a guy who's just calm
as a cucumber and no matter what, it just rolls off his back
like armor like he's wearingarmor, emotional armor, that
does not allow any slightestthing to get him upset or to

(11:16):
break his calm or break his cool.
Nothing drives a lady moreinsane than that and that is in
one of those aspects, that niceguy who is going to try to more
or less allow a little emotionto overcome the moment.
That's not his job to do that.

(11:37):
It's the woman's job to beemotional.
It's the guy's job to just be acold hearted bastard in the
right context, Right.
But it's kind of like knowing,like how to constantly evolve
within the subject matter ofthat context and sort of go, hey
, like when, when do I need tobe Stonehenge and when do I need
to be a wave in the oceans?

(11:58):
Like those two things aredifferent.
They're flexible, they'rethey're pliable, but they're
there and they're constant andthey're still strong.
You know, both are strong, butin a different way, and I think
that it's important, like thenice guy mentality.
You know, we listen a lot oftimes to our grandparents.
My grandma was the kind of womanthat you would tell me, you
know, hold open doors for littleold ladies and help little old

(12:21):
ladies across the street, littleold ladies and help little old
ladies across the street and,you know, do nice things for
people and treat every woman youmeet like she's royalty and
take good care of her and be agood guy and be an upstanding
person.
And when I think a nice guy,that's the kind of things I
think about.
You know, acts of chivalry,acts of selflessness, acts of
protection, right, Like someoneis trying to hurt someone and

(12:43):
you intervene some way thathelps them.
Right.
Like someone is trying to hurtsomeone and you intervene some
way that helps them.
Right.
And it could even be like thetiniest little things.
You're at a grocery store andsome little old lady can't reach
the can on the top aisle.
Are you going to be a guy thatjust walks by and watches her
struggle and doesn't do anything?
Or are you going to be the guythat takes some initiative and
goes let me get that for you whonotices that Other men notice

(13:04):
it right.
Another guy goes let me getthat for you.
Who notices that Other mennotice it right.
Another guy goes well, damn, Ishould have took the initiative.
Well, what did you just do?
You made the world a betterplace, because now that guy,
next time he might take theinitiative where you did, where
he failed and women see it andwomen go well, damn, my man
wouldn't do that, he wouldn'ttake the initiative.
And that affects herrelationship, that she's going
to think differently of her guybased on how that guy reacted to

(13:27):
that that moment doingsomething without being asked to
do it, but because it's theright thing to do.
And that's not being nice guy,that's just being a moral guy.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
There's a two different things this is true,
and there's also like there'salso women that want they.
They want to make sure thatyou're going to react
accordingly, react appropriately, and I'll use, you know, a
personal story, you know as, asan experience of like this

(14:07):
started dating.
I remember this because I trulybelieve this one thing probably
impacted the rest of ourrelationship and it was when we
first met.
What was that moment?
It was?
We had just met, we went outwith a bunch of friends it was
probably like a big group of usand we went to go do karaoke.
I know very stereotypical asianpeople and karaoke it's uh, we
all do like some damn karaoke.

(14:28):
We do like some karaoke.
Um, that's all right, but, um,I'll allow it.
We went, we went to do somekaraoke.
I remember we were like youknow, if you guys have never
been to like a asian karaokeplace, it's.
It's operates a little bitdifferently.
It's not like your typicalamerican dive bar karaoke where
there's a stage and you get upon stage and everybody's in

(14:50):
front of you and you take turnssinging asian karaoke.
You get a room, so you go intolike this big place and they
have like individual rooms andthen they just bring you liquor.
So, like, you order the liquor,they bring you the liquor and
you're singing, you're in yourown little private room.
You have your own group.
Yeah, it's like a private group, yes, and there'll be like 20

(15:10):
rooms.
So it's like you just get oneroom and you'll have like
microphones and you'll have yourown TV.
What, yeah, you're just likepartying, you're drinking that
sounds fun like a jackass, justin private, yes, and then like,
and then you just pay by thehour, so you'll rent the room.
It's like, you know, 25, 30bucks an hour.
You stay.
People usually go there, say,for like three hours.

(15:31):
They drink yeah, I mean, you'repaying for the alcohol, of
course.
Um, so I digress.
Uh, we're, you know, singingkaraoke and then we're finished
up and we're gonna go somewhereelse.
I think we usually pre-game atthe karaoke place and we go
somewhere else.
And we had just met and I forgotwhat it was Like.
Somehow we had, we got, we weretalking and something like we

(15:54):
got into like not an argument,but we just had a disagreement
and, mind you, we this is likewe didn't know each other.
So I was like, oh man, I don't,I don't agree with that.
And she was originally ridingwith me and I left her.
Like I left her there, bro, butshe was with her friends as
well, I see.

(16:15):
So it's not like I left herthere, like I knew she had a
ride.
It was like her best friendthat she rode with.
And I tell you what yeah, thatdid not.
If anything, it probably madeher pursue me more because she
saw that I was willing to likeand you're laughing because my
wife is our editor, so she hasto listen to this story and

(16:39):
she's going to be editing thispodcast that that made her, I
guess, not respect but valuetheir relationship more, because
she realized, like I'm not apushover, I'm not.
You can't just say whatever youwant and I'm going to just go
googly eyed and just like be apiece of like mold in your hands

(17:01):
, like I'm going to stand up formyself.
I'm like, no, I don't agreewith that, I think that's not
true and I just left her.
And then now we're married.
15, 16 years later.
So I mean, when you look at itlike you know, there is a point
in time where you can't just bea pushover and you can't just do
whatever you need to do to,like, make them happy, Like you

(17:22):
got to stand up for yourself andstand up for your morals and
your values and go from there.
Women value strength.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
I truly believe that they value strength and they and
they value a person who doesn'twant, who's not willing to be a
pushover.
And that's what really it allcomes down to.
When they say nice guys finishlast, it doesn't mean that, oh,
because a person is good andnice, that that's why they
finished last.
It's because in our, in thiscontext of this podcast, when we
say nice guys, we mean guysthat maybe are a little too nice

(17:50):
.
Like you know, they don't standup for themselves when the time
comes.
They don't, you know, interjectthemselves into the situation.
You know they're just peoplepleasers and don't get me wrong,
like there are situations inlife where you know you might
want to be a people pleaser.

(18:12):
I mean like, yeah, look, a lotof people have no filter when it
comes to their kids, noboundaries when it comes to
their kids.
I mean if, if your little girlcame up to you, wanted to play
tea and put makeup on you, youwould let her, and that's we
remove all the boundaries forpeople that we love more than
anything in the world, andchildren.
I guess it's like a specialkind of love that you can't

(18:33):
necessarily.
You know there's not going tobe a boundary there.
So, anyway, we're going to lookat some comments, all right.
So I asked the question onTwitter.
We'll kind of get into some ofy'all's responses, which I think
some of these are interesting.
I think they're going to beopening up some conversation for
you and I to have.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
It's always a good thing because you get to see,
you get to pick the brain of somany different people.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah.
So let me refresh this pagebecause when I checked about 20
minutes ago, there were a lot ofcomments oh wow, 91 comments.
So we may not be able to readthrough all of them, but I want
to see what you guys think.
I want to see what our viewersthink.
Okay, let's see.
Now, obviously, some of this isgoing to be in the guise of
relationships, but some of it isnot always necessarily about

(19:11):
relationships, and what's sostrange is when you use the
blanket term of oh well, niceguys always finish last.
Some people are going to takethat as relationship related,
some people are going to take itas business related, so on and
so forth.
So it's interesting to seewhere people's heads are at when
you make a statement like that.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yep, just like we looked at it two different ways.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Renegade says that nice guys are weak men.
There's a difference betweenbeing nice and having manners,
showing kindness when you shouldchoose violence.
A nice guy is a weak frecklesman who is usually internally
very angry at the world.
Okay, interesting Traveler saysthat really depends on what you
mean by nice guy.

(19:53):
If you mean that nice guys thatsay they're nice and yeah, they
finish last, then they shouldfinish last.
If you mean genuinely decentmen who just don't have a lot of
force of will, then they willalso often finish last.
If you mean that all decent menfinish last, then not
necessarily, but it often doeshappen.
So I mean that's kind of ageneralization of what we've

(20:13):
talked about already.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
I mean there are many different camps of that okay
Way to agree and disagree at thesame time.
Traveler.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Robbie says.
Robbie J says I don't thinkit's true at all.
Being a nice person doesn'tmean letting people walk all
over you.
It's true at all.
Being a nice person doesn'tmean letting people walk all
over you, but it does mean goingout of your way to help good
people when they need it.
In my experience, people thatbehave that way are, on average,
doing better than everyone else.
Nobody likes mean people.
We're social creatures and webenefit massively from our

(20:43):
social connections.
Mean people have fewer, and sothey tend to do more poorly in
life.
Okay, I don't know about thatman.
What do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
I don't know man.
I've met some pretty successful, mean people.
I can see where you're comingfrom, I guess on a friendship
level, but in business you dofall into two camps, you fall
into that super no-nonsense,aggressive, almost borderline

(21:24):
it's hard to say like you haveto be ruthless in order to kind
of step up.
You have to be willing to stepon the backs of others but not
necessarily do it.
It's almost like you have to bewilling to do it but maybe not
do it.
I don't know.
There are certain things inbusiness that if you don't have

(21:48):
that attitude you will get takenadvantage of.
So I guess that's what I mean.
When you have to be willing todo certain things, that just
means you have to have your eyesopen enough to where it doesn't
happen to you.
So if you're in business with apartner you always kind of have
to have a set of eyes behindyou.
There's a reason.
This stereotype is you don't gointo business with friends

(22:11):
because bad things always happen.
You can't say, oh, it won'thappen to us, like it most
certainly will, all right.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
That's a very good.
That's a good point, matt, andI think it's just important.
It's like the way that I lookat it, robbie, robbie J.
One way that I look at it isthat have you ever had to
discipline a child?
And you know, maybe, robbie J,one way that I look at it is
that have you ever had todiscipline a child?
And you know, maybe you have to.
They say spare the rod, spoilthe child.
That's right, you've heard thatterm before.
So you had to discipline achild, whether you did it

(22:38):
physically or you had to yell atthem or whatever you had to do
to get the point across.
And the kids may be a littleupset.
And then you come back to himand you go look, don't sweat it,
let's go get some ice cream,it's going to be okay.
Did you learn something?
Yeah, okay, well, then youlearn.
That's kind of how business isLike.
You may have to come in hardand go well, look, this is what
I need, this is what I want inthis particular situation, and
the other person might initiallykind of go whoa, whoa, okay,

(23:00):
that's, that's a big ask, right?
But but then you kind of go butfor you I'll do this.
So it's like establishing yourdominance in the business
situation, like, hey, these arethe things I require in order
for us to engage in thisbusiness transaction.
But for you, because I like you, hey, because we're such good
friends, or because, hey, Ireally value your business, I'll

(23:24):
do it for this, I'll back off alittle bit and maybe give you
you know.
We'll kind of meet in themiddle and then, if the other
person that's their opportunityto go, well, I appreciate you
doing that.
But no need, we'll meet backhere, maybe move the line a
little bit further towardstowards them and take a little
bit more of the responsibilityway, and both parties see the

(23:48):
sort of, let's just say, mentalgymnastics that is occurring to
make the business transactionhappen.
Then they go wow, I respect thisperson because they're not
willing to give up what theywant out of the situation.
They're willing to define inclear terms what they want.

(24:11):
And you know what?
I think they respect me becausethey know that, hey, while they
were willing to give aconcession based on our previous
experiences, I'm like, no, thatwon't be necessary, and you
kind of push the line back intheir direction a little bit,
and that way no one feelsslighted.
But you established what eachparty wanted.
You gave each party what theywanted and you compromised a
little bit for each other amutual compromise, because
really all business really is,at the end of the day, it's a

(24:31):
mutual compromise.
It is compromise of all right.
What will you do for me inexchange for what I will do for
you?
And what you get out of thesituation makes you happy and
what I get out of the situationmakes me happy.
I'm not going to compromise onwhat I want, especially if I do
business with other people andthey know what I come to expect
and they you know whatever payme at the rate that I expect to

(24:53):
be paid at, or they do a certainamount of business that I
expect to do with a long-termclient or something like that.
So it's also about beingwilling to say no.
The most powerful thing aperson can do is say no.
It is the most, is thestrongest form of negotiation
there is is to say no and walkaway and mean it.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
You have to be willing to walk away and you got
to mean it.
But one of the big things is,when it comes to partnerships,
is you just have to one pick andchoose your partner or partners
very wisely.
So they're not, they're of goodcharacter.
So I mean, I'll use my myjiu-jitsu academy as example.
I have a partner and my partneris our head instructor.

(25:37):
We were not friends before westarted this jiu-jitsu academy.
It was someone that was.
It was an advantageousrelationship.
The relationship wasestablished because the business
, because of the business.
It wasn't we, it was someonethat was.
It was an advantageousrelationship.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
The relationship was established because of the
business Because of the business.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
It wasn't we weren't friends and say, hey, we should
do this.
It was, hey, this is a greatopportunity.
Would you like to be a partnerin this business?
He said, yes, he's an amazingpartner.
He's great.
No ill will, no very, you know,just a nice guy.
You know, um, it helps that I'mnot greedy, you know, we, we

(26:14):
definitely make sure everybody'staken care of on both sides as
much as we possibly can.
Um, and I mean it's been, it'sbeen a great experience so far.
I'm I'm not concerned about,you know, some of the things
that we talked about, because wevetted the person.
We're like, hey, this is just agood dude, so I'm happy with

(26:35):
that, he's doing a great job.
But on the other side you guysthat are in this gun tube world
probably noticed there's acompany named after a dinosaur,
had some business issues withthe family and that's exactly
what we talked about.
You know, like one personstarted the company, got

(26:56):
squeezed out and now we're here.
If you guys don't know, then golook it up.
But, um, I would highlyrecommend, you know, making sure
your partners, whoever you'regoing to bring in and give
equity to, are good people.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Sure, let's read some more comments, shall we All?
Right, let's see.
Jeff says nice guys finish.
Last is what people say toexcuse or justify their bad
behavior.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Hmm, define bad behavior Interesting.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Well, I mean, I could see that maybe as being a
mechanism but in the context ofwhat we're discussing, just
because you stand by your you,you stand by your values, you
stand by your morals and youryou stick to your guns, so to
speak.
That doesn't mean you're bad,so to speak, at all.
But I can understand, maybe,how someone would use that as
some sort of a dumping mechanismto just defer.

(27:50):
Yep, maybe nice, let's see.
Did OC the cunt.
Oh, my God what the heck kind ofname is that?
Well, anyway, that person saysmaybe nice guys don't want to
run in the same races as cunts.
Well, interesting way to put it, but hey maybe you're right.

(28:17):
It's a very, very uniqueusername there.
That's a unique way to look atit, I suppose let's see.
Sadie says all right, we have alady here, a lumberjack lady,
sadie.
She says it depends on what'sat hand In blue collar work.
I have found that to be thecase.
Anyone willing to step onothers and cut the lower man, or
even their peer, ends upgetting a better pay and

(28:38):
contracts.
Hard earned money is much morerare than dishonorable men and
women these days.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
See, I mentioned it.
I said you have to be willing.
So I said you have to bewilling to step on the backs of
others.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Maybe not necessarily that you will do it, but you
have to have that killermentality.
So you know what to look for,you know it's crazy that I don't
know about the type of industrythat she would be involved in,
but some of the industries I'vefound, like, for instance,
construction okay.
Where you know you have, you own, a construction company, you do

(29:14):
clearing and grading orsomething like that.
Or you know you ownmultimillion dollar machines.
You know you employ bunches ofpeople and you know you're
relying on those big contractsto come through consistently to
keep everybody busy and, moreimportantly, make you know
payments on those freakingmachines.
It costs a lot of money, right,right, and there's a lot of
cutthroat stuff that goes on inthat industry, right, and a lot

(29:35):
of it is buddy-buddy.
Who knows who.
And, yeah, a given contractmight've been maybe a little
higher than a few of the otherbidders, but it's all in who you
know Like.
Oh, this person kind of rubelbows with you, have a good
relationship with.
So, yeah, even the person whoput in a little bit higher bid
might actually get the contractbecause they know the right
person or they've been inbusiness a long time.

(29:55):
And that does come down torelationships.
That's not necessarily a goodor bad guy, finished first or
last type of scenario.
However, there are a lot ofsituations where someone might
come in and scoop a contract upand just do a little bit of a
tiny bid below.
Maybe they have a little bit ofknowledge of the people that
are giving out the contracts andthey go well, we'll do it for

(30:16):
500 bucks cheaper, or whatever$1,000 cheaper, and they go.
Well, 1,000 bucks is 1,000bucks, here you go and they get
the contract out.
So the people that are willingto play bloody pool when there's
blood in the water and thesharks are circling, believe me,
they're going to get the prey.
So I guess it is in some casesabout being hungry.
There may be a larger companywho they're not concerned over

(30:39):
the volume of jobs they'regetting, because they have a
bunch of revolving door of jobsthey're getting all the time and
maybe they don't need to reallyfight so hard for every little
contract because they put in somany bids in so many places.
Maybe they're a countrywideoperation that can send people
wherever and maybe they don'thave to rely so much on scooping
up every little bid that theycan.

(31:00):
So now I guess it just dependson the context.
That's true, let's see Allright.
Cooper Thowell says, of course,being nice requires no courage
whatsoever.
Being kind does, but being kindinvolves telling the truth and
having standards for yourselfand enforcing those standards
always, regardless of how smallor large they may be.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
I think I would agree with that, but I think that
Cooper, you might be confusingnice with, I guess, not nice,
Because you said you have to bewilling to stand up for yourself
right and do the right thing.
That's not necessarily nice.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
The right thing may not necessarily be in your best
interest.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
You can say, like, the right thing isn't always
what everybody wants.
So sometimes that would put youin a bad position, like, hey, I
have to do what's right, rightby who Is it right for the whole
group of people?
What if you're working with?
What if you're in a group of 10and you said, hey, in order to
save seven jobs, you have to lettwo people go?
Well, the nice guy would say,well, I don't want to let two

(32:22):
people go, I want to make sureeverybody has a job.
But if that's the case, nobodyhas a job, yeah, everyone gets
laid off.
So who's the bad guy?
Now, you know you have to cuttwo people in order to save
seven jobs.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Leadership involves making unpopular decisions,
right, and you don't have tolook any further than what's
going on in our country rightnow.
I mean, we're on the potentialface of this crazy nuclear war,
right, I mean World War III,essentially.
Imagine that you're a personwho's in a room with a bunch of
other folks that are on the samemindset as you are and you're

(32:56):
all trying to decide the way togo about this, how to sort this
out.
What do we do?
We know that if we do that.
Answer A we have an envelopewith solution A.
With solution A, all right.
Solution B, solution C, and eachsolution has its own fallout
and consequences.
And we go.
Solution A is going to piss off75% of our voter base, but it's

(33:18):
going to achieve the fastestresult, you know, geopolitically
right.
Solution B more Goldilocks zone.
We may put more of our servicemembers abroad at risk, but
we're going to have a betterpolitical outcome here locally.
So it's like they have to makethe decision based on the fact
that they know they're going topiss a bunch of people off, no

(33:40):
matter what they do.
So how do you perform a triagein a way that pisses off the
fewest people and stillsimultaneously benefits the most
, and how do you do that in away that doesn't make it look
like all you care about is yourown stock portfolio as well?
Because I mean these people areall tied in with the military

(34:00):
industrial complex.
They're getting some juicyinsider trading and that's a
whole level of drudgery thatwe're not going to go over here.
But I think that's a good wayto look at it.
Gorilla Hayes says that niceyes, kind no.
People who are nice aretypically people pleasers who

(34:21):
don't stand up for themselves orthose they care about versus
kind.
You set boundaries in anassertive way while still being
polite, and you stand up for thepeople when necessary, bro you
nailed it.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
That's fair.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, I think that's a great explanation, for you
know one of the yeah, that's agreat explanation and based on a
lot of my conversations withCoach Wayne, you know, go back
to kind of the relationship sideis, like you know, women, women
.
What he explained to me is thata lot of ladies, most you know,

(34:53):
they really want leadership.
They want, you know, adominance and assertiveness.
And they want leadership.
They want to feel safe, theywant to feel secure, they want
to feel like they can beemotionally unhinged if they
want.
You know, because when a womanis in a position where you know
she's got to, let's just say, beaccountable to a whole bunch of

(35:14):
things, whether it'sresponsibilities in the home or
whether it's, let's just say, Idon't know, making money or
whatever it may be, it could beanything, it could be taking
care of the kids, it could bewhatever.
When a woman feels like she hasto be ultimately, let's just
say, responsible for a greatdeal of ongoings in in the home
front, you know she begins toquestion the leadership of the

(35:37):
male and, you know, think damn Ididn't really think of it in
that way that, like you know,you really want to take as much
off of that person's shouldersas you can.
But it is a two-way street, Imean, obviously, and both roles

(36:04):
in that particular process arethere to essentially round out
each other's energies, right,woman safe and keep her, you
know, clove and fed and a roofoverhead, and to provide every
possible avenue for her to feelsafe and secure.
Right, then there also must bea role that the woman serves in

(36:25):
that environment as well, andthat's, you know, keeping the
world from just completelycollapsing onto that guy's.
You know environment, right,the guy's maybe working two jobs
, or he's working his nine tofive, maybe he's working 10 hour
day, 12 hour day, works hisbutt off, you know, maybe the
lady's a stay at home mom orstay at home, whatever, right,

(36:46):
right, in that situation, yeah,guy's going to come home.
He can be tired, you know he'sgoing to, you know, feel like he
wants to relax for a while andhe wants to know that he's
coming home to a household where, you know, the lady's keeping
up things at the house and, likeyou know, making a home.
I mean, us guys can get by withsome cinder blocks and freaking
, blow up mattress and a bullcrap TV and some weights in the

(37:09):
corner and you know some staleass pizza in a box in the corner
, like we're not that hard toplease.
Like if you look at how a lotof single guys live, like you
know, they just kind of they'repretty basic.
Yeah, they bum it, man.
Yeah, they bum it and they kindof I don't know they indulge in
that to some degree.
They indulge in sort of thebummery of that moment, if you

(37:29):
will.
Yep, but it's like when a guyyou know, if a guy is trying to,
let's say, attract or you knowguys in the dating world, he's
trying to attract partner, thatyou know that idea, maybe they
have an idea of what kind ofpartner they want to attract.
And when you're only going toattract as much as you bring the

(37:50):
situation yourself Right.
And it's like if you wouldn'tdate you, why would somebody
else?
It was like if a person, if aman, doesn't concentrate on
being the best version ofhimself that he possibly can be,
then how can he possibly expecthis partner to value him if he
doesn't?
And I think that in terms ofrelationships per se, that could
also coincide with business,right, would you rather do

(38:14):
business with someone who youknow takes care of themselves
well, business wise, they'revery successful, they have a
proven track record, they havestatus, they have a bit, you
know, to do with society.
They're a person, maybe a power.
Those are all things that notonly a female seeks out.
You know she wants a personwho's important, who has some

(38:34):
status, who has something toshow.
And I think that business isthe same way.
If you had two friends, let'ssay, or two colleagues, or two
contacts within the businessworld that you knew you could do
business with, would you ratherdo business with the person
who's had a proven track recordover the last 20 years, or
someone that's got the startupwhere it's like.

(38:56):
Well, I mean, yeah, the startupinvolves a certain amount of
risk, which you know, hey,nothing ventured, nothing gained
.
And with great risk comes greatreward if it's adhered to
properly.
But generally some people mightwant to take the safe road and
go.
You know what?
This guy has been doing thisfor 25 years.
We're going to trust his firmto handle this area of business
for us and we know we want aproven result, we want a

(39:19):
consistent result and sometimesthat comes with a certain amount
of that person being the bestversion of themselves that they
possibly can be.
They've developed themselvesprofessionally in a way that
they can't fail.
And I think that those thingscan be said about a man even in
his own world.
Let's say he's single and he'sliving in his own world.
Well, are you going to the gymand working out and getting

(39:42):
strong?
Are you eating good, takingcare of your body?
Are you trying to look good?
Are you keeping yourself clean?
Are you keeping up on yourpersonal hygiene?
Are you doing well in thebusiness world?
Are you trying to show the bestversion of yourself that you
could possibly be?
And if that answer is no, wellthen can you really be upset
when things don't go successfulfor you in the business world,

(40:05):
the dating world, just life ingeneral?

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, personally, you have to be willing to put in a
little bit of work.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
People notice that they notice laziness, but they
also notice when you succeed,when you're like wow, this
person's on a glow up.
If you can't look at yourselfand say, wow, this person's on a
glow up, hey, you in the mirror, you're on a glow up.
If you're not, then youshouldn't even try to engage in
certain aspects of a personallife because you're not ready.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
And it happens all the time, even personally.
We run into people at ourJiu-Jitsu Academy.
They're like, hey, I'm just notgetting better.
I've been here, I've beentraining for a long time, I'm
not getting better.
Well, have you been putting ina little bit more time?
You come to class and that'sgreat, we appreciate you coming
to class, but did you startlifting?
Did you start eating healthy?

(40:51):
Did you start putting a littlebit more time on reviewing what
you learn?
That would be the equivalent ofgoing to school.
If you're in college or highschool, going to class but never
doing homework and thencomplaining that you're to make

(41:12):
you smarter, you still have todo stuff outside of that to get
smarter, just like if you'regoing to lift weights.
You can't just lift weights toget stronger.
You have to eat healthy.
You have to change a lot ofstuff in order to get the result
that you want.
I just wanted to kind of go backa little bit, eric, because you
mentioned about leadership andspecific roles, and I think it's

(41:37):
very important.
There's two things that I heardwhen I was younger that made an
impact and helped me understandthe mindset that you have to be
in when you are a leader, andthe first one is and it's a
cliche, but here's like heavylies the crown, like when you're

(41:59):
in a leadership position oryou're the family leader.
Let's just look at it from afamily aspect.
You're the breadwinner oryou're the family leader.
It's a lot of responsibility Tohave that responsibility.
You have to be willing to takeon and absorb a lot of that, a
lot of the problems, a lot ofthe negativity.

(42:21):
You have to let it roll off ofyour back because, eric, you
mentioned something about youknow you have to just let things
go Like people will say things,people will talk.
You just had to let it roll offyour back.
That's part of yourresponsibility and part of your,
like your superpower as thatleader is to just just don't let
it get to you be armored youknow you have to have that

(42:43):
certain level of armor per se um.
And then the second is, you knowit's lonely at the top.
So if you think of, you know,your leadership as a pyramid and
you're at the top, there canonly be one.
And it's so funny because I wastalking to Lisa, because my
wife, she just stepped into aleadership role at an

(43:04):
organization and she wasn't usedto it.
And I used to tell her she'sused to.
You know, when she was at workshe would like hang out with her
, with her coworkers, and shewould, you know, have all kinds
of like.
You know she would come in ontime and you know I said you are

(43:25):
in a leadership role.
Now you can't do that.
I'm not saying not to do it,but you can't do it as much.
And I use an example of when wewere in the army how often did
our platoon leader hang out withus?
Eric Like very rarely.
How often did our platoonsergeant hang out with us?
Like they would stop by andlike, check in, but they're not

(43:46):
eating lunch and dinner with us,they're not out in the field
with us.
There you would see the twoleadership roles.
They would hang out together,like they would constantly be
together, because they're givingeach other like, hey, so-and-so
is doing this and they'rethey're doing what they're
supposed to be doing.
But when you're the leader,it's lonely man, and that's
something that you have to kindof accept, um, that you can't do

(44:08):
certain things, you can't hangout with certain people, you
can't.
This is, this is not somethingthat you do, um, and you have to
get used to it, you know, yeahthat's true.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
And you know, I think , kind of going back to, I had
thought about something when I,when I was, uh, you know,
talking earlier about you know,let's just say, the female
paradigm of you know how theyview leadership roles and things
like that.
There's also, I think, that alot of women particularly also
like it when you know a person'skind of mysterious and a
person's kind of you knowthere's something about them

(44:41):
that's quirky or unique, thatstands out.
That's exciting, you know.
And I think that as much as wekind of view that as a female to
male trait, where like, okay,girls, like a guy who's kind of
mysterious but interesting, andthey always do something, they
can kind of discover about themand it keeps them on their toes
and keeps them guessing andkeeps them wanting to know more,
that's great, I mean, obviouslythat's a good trait.

(45:02):
But even in the leadership roleit can be a very similar thing,
like the best leaders are theones that always kind of keep
let's just say, in the situationof military kind of keeps their
men guessing a little bit, like, keeps them in a point where
it's like all right, well, ltand a platoon sergeant are
keeping their cool.
So I'm going to be cool.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Right, if a person can keep their cool even in the
most stressful situation, itwill make others follow you,
right?
So just like okay, let's justuse something like the Vietnam
War, for instance.
Ok, I wasn't in Vietnam, buttalk about a lot of the
situations in Vietnam where areally hectic situation breaks

(45:44):
out in a very short amount oftime.
Ok, you're on patrol, yourpatrol comes under an ambush.
All of a sudden you're gettinghemmed up and it's just
absolutely crazy.
And you're calling on the radioand there's just utter chaos
breaks out instantly, instantchaos.
If a person in that momentembraces what being a leader
really means is to go hey, Icannot let my men see me get

(46:06):
upset.
I can't let my men see me actemotionally.
My men cannot see me act in away that I wouldn't want them to
act.
Because if we're all men andwe're all in our masculine, well
, guess what If the strongestperson, right?
If someone looked at theirplatoon sergeant and thinks that
they're the dad of the platoon?
Well, if dad's upset, guesswhat?

(46:27):
The kids are going to be upset,right?
So it's even more important fora leader in those moments to
keep his calm and show hiscomposure, because then the men
are going to accept orders andthey're going to be like you
know what, he's got it undercontrol.
I trust him.
You know what I mean.
I may not know everything, butyou know what I feel like that
person knows everything.
I feel like in this moment he'sgot it under control.

(46:48):
We're all going to get out ofhere alive If I just do what he
says.
We're all going to survive andguess what?
That's what it comes down toand I think that, going back to
the relationship side, that'skind of how females are wired
too, like if they seeconsistency and they see that
every time their man makes adecision, it ends up being, you
know, successful and that hekeeps his cool and there's a

(47:08):
composure and maybe, but with alittle bit of like a mysterious
factor about what could happen,like maybe a little bit of
unpredictability.
That's way better.
And it's just interesting to seepsychologically how women react
in that environment ofuncertainty, right when you're
strong and you take theleadership role, versus how men

(47:28):
let's say you're under theleadership of men, whether it's
in a company or in a military,and how they react to the way
you handle the situation, themasculine and the feminine.
Those two are very similarenergies.
I mean, obviously it's like themasculine energy is more of the
logical and strong and bold andassertive type of decision
making process, and the femaleside, the feminine side, is more

(47:51):
of the emotional driven youknow more of the way that they
feel in that moment and theywant to have the safety.
A woman wants to have thesafety of knowing that in that
moment she can be as unhinged asshe wants to be and it's
completely okay that she's in asafe place to do that.
And if she doesn't feel safe,she's never going to completely,

(48:11):
you know, beat your woman.
I mean, let's just face it.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
But that brings up a good point is that if you have
that track record of consistencyand success, then you can be a
little ambiguous and a little,you know, mysterious per se,
because they trust you.
But if you have a track recordof just being unhinged and like
making really bad decisions,then she's probably going to be

(48:36):
a little bit hesitant about anydecision that you make.
And that was the same thing.
I think we were talking aboutthis the other day.
I was like you know what?
We had good leadership when wewere in Iraq because we knew
that they always had our bestinterests.
It was never like, oh man, theygot us doing some wild mission.
It was like, all right, I trust, I trust them enough to where,

(49:00):
whatever they throw you intosomething, exactly yeah, they're
not gonna be like, hey, man,just go and go and die like we.
There was never a point in timewhere I was concerned about any
orders that were given to me orif there were something you
were going to be put into thatmight be sketchy.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
They're going to say, hey, this is sketchy.
Yeah, they're at least going totell you then they've done that
.
They've done that.
They said, hey, this is goingto say, hey, this is catchy.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Yeah, they're at least going to tell you.
Then they've done that.
They said, hey, this one'sgoing to be a little hairy, and
you understand like, all right,well, we should probably pay
attention on this one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I felt like they always hadour best interest, we had great
leadership, and that's what youwant to convey to either in
your company or your family, toyour loved one or family.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
The ever famous question All right, what do you
want to eat?
Let's go, okay.
So how do you handle?
So, all right, you and Lisa aregoing to go out and have some
food or something.
You know you've establishedthat you're going to go out and
eat something.
This is sort of a trickquestion, I want to say.
I kind of want to know wherepeople are at on this.
I mean, maybe you guys let meknow in the comment section

(49:55):
below, but I feel like it's thisgiant trick question.
Oh my God, yeah, it's a totaltrick question.
Why?
Why do you think it's a trickquestion?
All right, where are we eatingtonight?
I want to eat.
Well, where are we eating?

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Where do you want to?

Speaker 1 (50:09):
go, what do?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
This is truly one of those.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
I want to know if you think the way I do on this yeah
, this is one of those universallike gotchas, all right.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
So it's like, if she's like, hey, what do you
want to eat, I'm like I'll eatwhatever you want to eat, like
you pick.
And it's always like, no, justpick something and I'll just
start rattling off stuff.
And they're like, no, no, no,just tell me what you want to

(50:43):
eat then, because I'm not goingto sit here and guess, but it,
for some reason, it feels likethat it's in their dna, that
that is a, a female dna thing.
I don't know what it is, Idon't know why.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Yeah, what it is I'm gonna tell you how I handle it.
All right, I don't want to knowwhat you guys think I mean.
Let me know if I'm wrong here,if I'm out of bounds, if I know
that we're going to go out andmaybe grab some food or
something.
The way I try I may not alwaysdo this, but I try to handle it
this way I try to go.
Okay, before I even ask herwhat she wants to eat or where

(51:10):
she wants to go, or even if shewants to go, I'm already going
to have about three or fourthings planned.
I make a plan.
I say okay.
If she says we're going to goout to eat, I'm going to suggest
all right, we are going here.
I'm not going to say do youwant to go here?
I'm going to say we're goinghere, and then that way it
paints it more as if I actuallymade a decision, not that I just

(51:33):
placed it on her.
I think ultimately, thepsychological part of that, matt
, is that a woman doesn't wantto make a decision.
They want to be led.
They want you to tell themwhere you're going to eat.
And she should have the abilityto say no if she wants.
I mean well, hey, are youhungry?
Yes, Well, I thought we wouldgo have Thai tonight.

(51:54):
Would you like to go have Thai?
Oh well, you didn't give herthe option, you just you told
her where you're going to go.
So now, if she says, well, I'mnot really in the mood for Thai.
What else are you thinking?
Well, we could go to thatreally nice pizza place up there
in the east side of Atlanta.
You know, we go have some nicepizza.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
How about?

Speaker 1 (52:15):
that.
Why don't we go?
Well, I'm not really feelingpizza, Okay.
Well then, what about we go tothat nice burger joint that has
whatever?
So it's like I'm provided.
I've not only planned somethingcool and made that the
assumption or assertion, butI've given multiple options and

(52:36):
given her the right of refusal.
But there's a difference, Ibelieve, psychologically,
between the right of refusal andnot having a plan In their mind
it does something to them.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
I can see that.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
And they want a guy with a plan.
They want a guy who can planand, believe me, it's not always
easy.
It's not always easy to have aplan or to make a plan and,
believe me, it's not always easy.
It's not always easy to have aplan or to make a plan and you
think that you're good at comingup with the logistics of how
you're going to keep all the menin the platoon fed.
I mean, I think about what a PLor a platoon sergeant goes
through.
All right, I got to make sureall my men have got their meals.

(53:09):
I got to make sure I'm handlingthe rotation who's going to be
out and in.
And, ok, yeah, there is a, thereis a managerial logistics to
like managing a platoon, themilitary Right or company size
element.
The logistics just get biggerand more complicated, but the
same basic logistic idea isstill there.
It's still beans and bulletsRight.
An army marches on its stomachRight, and you think that's hard

(53:33):
.
Marches on his stomach Right,and you think that's hard.
Oh God, oh, my God.
I couldn't imagine being incharge of of a company that is,
a co-ed company with women andmen.
Now you have to consider allthese other things.
You have to consider the needsof the female soldier in
addition to the needs of a malesoldier, which those needs can
be similar from a survivalaspect, but also they do require

(53:55):
special consideration.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Oh yeah, they're drastically different from
outside of beans and bullets.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Right, and you think in those moments, oh, that's no
big deal, taking care of acompany of men Like, hey, you
know, we know we got thisfigured out.
You know, hey, all of my Sshops, everyone's got their role
, they know what their role is.
We've got a well oil machine.
Everyone knows when we need toorder stuff, when we need it,
supply's on track, all thelogistical finance side's all on

(54:21):
track.
That's one thing to have awell-oiled machine of people you
can delegate tasks to.
But in your relationship, inyour private life, you become
sort of the leader andeverything's expected to be
decided ultimately by you.
In that moment and I tell youthis all goes back, matt, full
circle, to my conversations withCorey and I really I was

(54:45):
excited about making a podcastabout this and just kind of
going long form off the tilt andjust kind of really going after
this, because he really didopen up my eyes to what it means
to be a leader in your own life, not necessarily even just
relationships or business or anyof those individual things that

(55:06):
we'll sign up kind ofcompartmentalize in our own
lives, right, all of thosethings are related but still
different.
They're still different parts ofour lives, right.
The relationship you have withyour wife is not the same
relationship you have with yourbusiness partners or your
students at your you know,jiu-jitsu academy or something
like that.
And I just think it made merealize that for years I was

(55:29):
really doing it all wrong and itreally put a lot in perspective
for me in a really positive way.
So it goes back to the originalquestion, matt.
Okay.
So after everything we'vetalked about, after all of
everyone's opinions, you'veheard my opinion.
So, as a blanket statement,matt, do nice guys finish last

(55:51):
intrinsically wholly.
Yes, they do.
I think the answer is yes, yes,yes, I think the answer is yes.
Because, you cannot be a peoplepleaser and be a man.
You just can't.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
I think that I think it was Cooper.
I think Cooper, jeff Cooper, no, no, the Cooper, the guy that
left us the comment aboutkindness and the kindness being
different than you know nice ormean different than you know
nice or mean.
I think that was a greatexplanation on the differences,

(56:29):
one you don't want to be apushover and you want to be kind
, and kind is different, allright, you can be nice and you
can have values and morals, andyou can uphold those values and
morals but also be willing touphold them and say no, yeah and

(56:49):
not, not go with the herd andbe willing to walk away from
certain situations based off ofyou know, your, your values and
morals.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
And and and even being willing to walk away from
you know, even the things thatyou cherish the most, if
necessary.
A man has to carve his own path, sometimes in life, and
sometimes that path may take youin a direction that doesn't
involve the people in your life,as much as that hurts, but
again it's.
We're being manly here, we'rebeing assertive, we're being you

(57:22):
know being leaders, and ifyou're going to be a leader in
your own life, sometimes youhave to accept losses.
This is true, and you have toaccept that some people get left
behind in that and that can bea very profound and powerful
thing for a person to realize.
It can also be a lonely anddangerous thing.
Like you said, leadership isloneliness and sometimes, being
a leader in your own life it canbe a lonely place to be.

(57:43):
It can be a place where youfeel, man, nobody understands me
or relates to me or knows thekind of person I really am, and
you can feel quite alone inthose moments.
And I think those are themoments as a man that you know
you have to really dig yourheels in and be like look, we're
not going to screw this, we'renot going to allow this to get
the better of us.
We're going to turn this aroundand be like, look, we're not
going to, you know, screw this.
We're not going to allow thisto get the better of us.

(58:03):
We're going to, you know, turnthis around and be the best
version of ourself we can be andmove on.
And some people just pissexcellence and that's great.
For those that do, it's awonderful trait.
I'm proud of those people.
I'm not jealous of those people.
You know.
I think that's anotherinteresting aspect is like the
kind of men that have jealousy,yeah, like over every little
thing.
That's a sign of weakness tooit really isn't.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
You can't be jealous about every little thing and,
and the more that you you matureemotionally, the more you
notice it and you pick up on it,because everybody will be
around that guy and like they,just it just seems like they
always have something negativeto say or something about
somebody else after everything.
Like, oh, like, so-and-so isdoing.
Oh, he's only doing as wellbecause of this, this and this,

(58:47):
and oh, this person has a nicehouse.
Oh, it's not that nice.
Like that, like they downplayyeah, they're, they're all.
It's always like that, thatnegative nancy guy nobody likes
a coper.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah, nobody likes someone that just consistently
tries to cope about everyoneelse and a person who is always
consumed with someone else'ssuccess.
Yeah, what are they not doing?
They're not achieving their ownsuccess, exactly so they're not
playing the game.
They're losing at the gamebecause they they are so poor at

(59:19):
that part of the game that allthey can think of is why is this
other person doing so muchbetter at the game, when they
should be concerned about howcan I play the game better, how
can I be better?
And that's the difference.
Honestly, I believe that's thedifference between the left and
the right.
Politically, the left goes well.
How can I change the rules ofthe game to make my loser-ness
better?

(59:41):
And a right wing person goeswell, all right.
Here's the game, here's howit's played.
I'm going to observe and learnfrom the people who do really
well and I'm going to replicatetheir results.
And, hey, if I do better, cool,hey, better is good, but I'm
also going to hey.
I'm going to learn fromsuccessful people and I'm going
to follow their lead and bebetter, and not, oh well, how do

(01:00:02):
I change the rules to help medo better but harm you in the
process?

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Those are two different mindsets and I think
that's the left versus rightparadigm in that show that and
not having a victim mentalityand just understanding like time
is a constant.
You can let's just say, forexample, you have 20 years like
whether you sit there andcomplain for 10 years about not
being successful and not beingas successful as somebody else,

(01:00:31):
or just continuing and you know,doing what you're doing to get
ahead.
I mean it.
You can't go through life andand always have to blame
somebody or think that you're avictim, just like life is a
constant, like you're gonna,you're, you're going to die
you're gonna have ups and downs,you know you're gonna live your
life.
There's a it's a finite amountof time, like.

(01:00:53):
Don't spend half of itcomplaining about you know
something not being fair, justdeal with it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I know, and I think it is a cornerstone of
masculinity and manhood for aguy to just be an impenetrable
fortress of not giving a fuck.
I mean, that's really just whatit comes down to.
It's like if you can become sostoic and non-caring that the

(01:01:21):
world just can throw everydisastrous thing at you and it
just doesn't matter.
You've won.
It doesn't matter how muchmoney you have or how rich you
are.
Those things are irrelevant.
What matters is can you weatherthe storm, can you persevere
even in the darkest moments andjust not care?
Can you find the beauty andluxury and simplicity of

(01:01:46):
everyday life in its smallestmoments and enjoy it?
I think that person has a muchgreater grip on reality than the
person who thinks that, oh,whoever has the most money in
their bank account when they diewins.
I fell victim to that mentality.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
I think we all have.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
We all have.
At one point in time, you knowwhat my life has been in the
last 10 years.
Yes, right, you know the kindof person I've been like.
You know what this room used tolook like.
You know what my music studioused to look like like.
You know the kind of thingsthat were ultimately important
to me.
And those things may notnecessarily draw the same level

(01:02:23):
of importance for me anymore,cause it's like I've kind of
passed the point of ofunderstanding that the physical,
you know the, the things, thestuff, the, the, the.
You know, I don't know the, theworshiping objects,
objectifying materialism,materialism, that the

(01:02:44):
materialism is, is not whereit's really all at.
And uh, it took me.
It took me 40 years to learnthat.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Sometimes it's a long road.
You know, and I think we've alllike, once you mature, like and
you know you, we like tobelieve that you know, you reach
the full maturity of your, youryou know, um, you reach the
full maturity of your you knowintelligence and you reach the
full maturity of, like, youremotions when you're, you know,

(01:03:11):
in your mid 20s, right, but youthink that you've experienced
everything and you knoweverything.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Oh God.
No, I was an utter screw up.
Yeah, man.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I mean sometimes like you're going through life and
you'll be 40 years old andyou're like you know what.
This just doesn't do it for meanymore.
These things don't do it for meanymore.
I could be utilizing my time somuch more better.
I could be utilizing my moneyin different places.
You know, like for me.
You know, obviously everybodylikes material things.

(01:03:41):
You know, you have nice watches, nice cars, all this nice stuff
.
But then now it's more like ohwell, maybe we'll fly here and
we'll do this tournament with mydaughter and maybe we'll do a
family vacation over here.
And it turns into more of likehow can I create a better
experience for my family versusokay, so I got nice things.

(01:04:05):
Now you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Yeah, that Rolex watch in the drawer.
Is it really going to do it?

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
It's kind of like not , it's, not, it doesn't do it
for me anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
It doesn't seem to matter anymore, does it?
I mean, and that's kind of,I've been the same way, Like I
used to always like think, allright, I'm going to buy the
crazy expensive gun, I'm goingto buy the crazy expensive
guitar, the motorcycle or thecar.
Like I went through that phaseBelieve me, I really did and I'm
so like happy and proud thatthat.
I've gotten to the point in mylife where I don't really care
about the material anymore, Likeonce you'd let it go and you

(01:04:34):
just realize that that's notwhere the happiness really is.
It's like it does.
It does kind of release youfrom a lot of burden.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
It does, doesn't it Like?
It feels like you're like oh, Ifeel so much better now Dude,
totally, totally.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Well, great show.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
I hope you guys understood where we're going at
on today's show.
I know this wasn't exactlypolitics or guns, but sometimes
we like to kind of go off intothe ethereal a little bit and
sometimes that's fun too.
I was thinking of flights thatwe could do and I want to do a
cigar flight.
I know we had those othercigars that we got in those I
think the J J, h, p, huffman orwhatever those.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
I think that we've got a lot of those to try out
and we may.
I thought about maybe settingup like some sort of a gazebo on
the property or some kind oflike cool outdoor sitting area,
so like maybe we'll do some ofour flights out there, and I do
want to get back to doing someflights.
I know that was one of thesuccessful things that we did on
the show before.
I don't know how I'm going toapproach the alcohol Matt,
because I don't really drinkanymore.
No look just tasting it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
I don't honestly like I don't drink that much either
Like if any I mean we're bothpretty healthy people much
either.
Like if any, I mean we're bothpretty healthy people, we work
out a lot, we train a lot andbefore that I might've, but now
it's like we have to figure outhow we're going to manage.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
I think we, I think we should do some like
retardedly hot peppers.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
We did that, but we can go hotter.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
So like we, we can do some crazy hot peppers.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
I think we should do like maybe, like I think we
should do a beef jerky episodeand test different types of beef
jerky.
Oh, dude, I got this.
Who doesn't love beef jerky?
So there is a meat snack storethat's like right down the
street from my house and it'sowned by a south african guy.
Yeah, and they do like biltong.
They do it's called drawers,like dried sauces.

(01:06:23):
Everything is air cured, sothey basically just mix it and
they hang it, and I brought itwith us to when we went to
Virginia.
We were doing that range day inVirginia and we drove, we drove
up.
I had that with us and I knowChad ate it and Chad fell in
love with it.
Man, he was like oh my God, thisis so good, but I'll bring some

(01:06:44):
of that dude.
That was really good.
That sounds like fun yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Well, guys, thanks so much for tuning in to today's
episode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
We've got a lot more on the way.
Remember we post every Mondayat 9 am Eastern Standard Time on
our RAC Veteran 8888 YouTubepage.
If you want to see this podcastin video form, you can see our
ugly mugs over there.
Otherwise, check us out on allthe normal places you would
expect to find your podcastApple Podcasts, spotify,

(01:07:08):
stitcher.
We're all over the place.
You can download the audio aswell.
So thanks so much for tuning in.
We've got a lot more on the way.
Let us know in the commentsection below.
Do nice guys finish last?
We want to know what you think.
This is such a point of opinionwith so many people and I would
love to know what you think.
So thanks so much.
Anything else, matt, before wehead on?

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Nope Great episode.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
All right, have a good one.
Y'all See you next week.
Bye everybody.
Thanks for listening to Life,liberty and Pursuit.
If you enjoyed the show, besure to subscribe on Apple
Podcasts, spotify and anywhereelse podcasts are found.
Be sure to leave us a five-starreview.
We'd really appreciate that youcan support us over on
Ballistic Inc by pickingyourself up some merch and

(01:07:49):
remember, guys, dangerousfreedom.
Have a good one.