LLP #138: Budget Drills, Real Skills

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Training shouldn’t stop just because the economy hurts. Eric and Matt open the toolkit for building real gun skills on a tight budget—no Gucci classes required. We start with the cornerstone: daily dry-fire done safely and deliberately. From clean draw strokes and confident presentations to one- and two-handed trigger presses, we map out home routines that build true muscle memory while revealing gear problems before they become fight-ending failures. You’ll hear why mirror checks before stepping out the door matter, how to clear heavy winter layers when carrying appendix, and why a few smooth reps can transform your confidence.

We get practical about tools: snap caps that enable realistic manipulations without live ammo, and shotgun dummy shells that teach the feel of cycling under load. Maintenance becomes training as we break down cleaning, inspection, and magazine care, including how to spot bullet setback in carry ammo. Then we stretch live-fire dollars with .22 LR—dedicated trainers and AR conversions that mirror your manual of arms so you can run your actual optics, lights, and controls while drilling sight picture and trigger control. Fundamentals transfer across calibers; we explain where recoil truly changes the game, especially with micro-compacts, and how to validate your grip and timing with some full-power reps.

Value beats hype. We outline how to choose local basics classes to lock in manipulation and safety, then step up to two-day intensives when you’re ready—and how to snag discounted seats and ammo deals by watching timing and inventory. Throughout, the mindset remains the constant: complacency kills. Treat everyday life as a training lab—clear your garment, verify retention, run a few clean draws, and keep your gear honest. You don’t need to be the fastest shooter on the internet to be effective; you need consistent fundamentals and calm under pressure.

If this resonates, subscribe on your favorite app, drop a rating to help more listeners find us, and share this episode with a friend who trains on a budget. What’s your best low-cost drill or gear tip? Tell us—we’re all getting better together.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome back, everybody.
This is Eric and Matt, and thisis Life, Liberty, and the
Pursuit.
Your beacon of freedom and theAmerican way of life.
Tune in every Monday for a newepisode as we dive into the
world of liberty and what makesour country great.
All right, boys and girls,welcome back.
This is Eric and Matt here withLLP.
You're home for all thingsnormal in a world gone

(00:21):
completely mad.
Welcome back, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
Hope everybody is having a great week, and we're
going to dive into today'sepisode.
And uh, you know, a lot of timeswith the show, y'all, we will
recognize certain trends thatare going on, or we'll recognize
things that we're seeing goingon in the world, and uh we'll
factor that into what's going onbecause you know we want to keep
things pertinent.
And what I've noticed, um, youknow, the economy is is really
in tough shape for a lot ofpeople, and this inflation has

(00:48):
been pretty rough, and we aregoing to talk about that more
holistically in a futureepisode.
But I want to talk a little bitabout training on a budget.
Because I've noticed thatthere's a lot of people who are
having more difficulty gettingsome training in these days, and
um, and when I when I saytraining, this is primarily um
going out and shooting yourfirearms and things like that

(01:08):
and getting actual gun training,like maybe you can't afford to
take classes, maybe you can'tafford to buy extra ammo.
What are some things you can doon the cheap to increase your uh
your training regimen?
Or what are some things that youcan do that are nearly free?
Uh we'll talk about those thingsa bit.
And we'll also give some uhreal-world examples of uh
situations where life sort ofthrows these real-world training

(01:32):
scenarios at you.
And we'll we'll talk about howlife can be a giant training
exercise and how to have themindset of treating your
everyday life as if it is thisum training exercise.
And I think if you understandthe concepts we're gonna lay out
in this podcast, I think you'llcome away with maybe a mindset
of like, wow, there are actuallya lot of situations where you

(01:54):
know you're presented with anopportunity to learn something.
And once you become sort of aconduit to that knowledge, uh,
you'll find that wow, life is isfull of plenty of opportunities
to learn things.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's um a lot ofopportunities to train for, you
know, free, essentially, um, orfor a very low cost.
Sure.
And, you know, if and if youbudget, if you have it in your
budget, maybe you save a littlebit of money here and there.
Um, you know, you can probablysave up for a couple of classes.

(02:26):
And classes in general uh aregreat.
It allows you to apply theprinciples that you've been
training, uh say at home in alive situation.
And you know, you don't have togo, like it's great to go, but
you don't have to go to likethese super Gucci like shooting
schools that you see online.
Sure, it looks great onInstagram, but that might be a

(02:46):
little bit more than what youneed.
Sometimes you just need to go toa local, you know, shooting
class with like highly qualifiedprofessionals that that do it
for a living.
And I hate to, you know, I hateto like beat a dead horse, but
there's a lot of you know, uhdefensive firearms instructors
that you know, people like, oh,they're just a uh uh instructor

(03:07):
because they're a policeofficer.
This might be true, but at thesame time, they probably have a
lot more experience instructingand teaching someone that has no
experience than someone that hasexperience.
So I mean, I wouldn't say justbecause they're a police officer
or you know, a SWAT officer orwhatever that they're not

(03:27):
qualified to instruct.
I think they are, um, but you'llonly if you're willing to absorb
the knowledge that they'rethey're providing.

SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
We're gonna get into a few things, a few examples.
Um, before we uh get too farinto today's show, I do want to
thank uh the show's firstsponsor, and that is my Patriot
Supply.
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(04:18):
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(04:40):
That's mypatriot supply.comslash LLP.
That's Lima Lima Papa.
And a big thanks to our friendsat Mypatriot Supply for
supporting today's show.
And a quick reminder, we postthe show every Monday at 9 a.m.
Eastern Standard Time.
Uh actually, this last week, weaccidentally posted the show on
Sunday, and we got a lot ofgreat commentary about posting

(05:02):
the show on Sunday.
So let me know in the commentsection below if you'd like us
to post the show on Sundayinstead, because a lot of you
guys seem to have watched theshow on Sunday.
So if you want us to post onSunday, maybe we'll switch the
day up.
But right now, every Monday, 9o'clock Eastern Standard Time on
the YouTube channel, you can seethis in video form.
And then also you can find itwhere all of your favorite

(05:24):
podcasts are found.
Uh Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, etcetera, et cetera.
Uh we'll see you there.
So you can download the show inaudio form as well.
This is a podcast first andforemost, but obviously we
record video as well.
So you can find it on my YouTubechannel, IRACVeteran8888.
Okay, so as you said, Matt,there are a lot of different

(05:45):
trainers out there.
And so what can a person do whenthey're in a position where
let's say they want to train,they want to further their skill
level as a shooter, but maybethey don't have access to a
range.
And that actually winds up beingone of the most common, um, not
really complaints, but but Iguess it would be a complaint,
you know, if you're in aposition where maybe you can't

(06:07):
necessarily get to a range veryoften, maybe you don't live near
a range, maybe your only optionis an indoor range, or maybe
they have rules against drawing,against time drills.
You know, that can be reallydifficult.
If you don't have access to anoutdoor range, how in the world
can you possibly practice theskill set needed to protect
yourself, such as drawing fromconcealment, um, you know,

(06:29):
working on your shot splits.
Some indoor ranges, in fact,many on indoor ranges, do not
allow you to draw.
Uh, first safety considerations.
Now, let's face it, a lot ofpeople who shoot at indoor
ranges, I'm not saying it's allof them, but a lot of people
that shoot at indoor ranges tendto be less experienced.
And I think the owners of theranges are just trying to kind

(06:49):
of play it safe and go, hey, wedon't want people drawing in
here because we don't wantsomeone accidentally cranking
around into the barrier to theside through the wall or behind
them, or really, we don't wantto have a discharge in here,
period, no matter whatcircumstances it may be.
So part of that is because ofsafety considerations.
You have other people nearby.

(07:10):
So it's a liability for therange to allow someone to
practice their draw or to dotime splits or to draw from
concealment.
So, how in the world do youpractice these things?
Well, I'm gonna tell you alittle quick story, and uh the
story has uh a glory but happyending.
And uh, so a good friend of mineused to work for Atlanta PD.

(07:32):
Uh now, y'all, this has beensome time ago, all right?
Uh, many, many years ago.
This was back in like, I believethe 70s, okay, or the 80s, early
80s, late 70s.
So um, I'm dating this gentlemanby a little bit here, uh, by
mentioning how long ago thishappened.
And this was back when AtlantaPD was issuing Smith and Wesson

(07:52):
Model 19s.
So it may have been the 70s,they were still issuing 19s, uh,
which are the 357 Magnum uhrevolver, okay.
Um, very different time, okay.
Uh they didn't start issuingauto loaders until the 80s.
I think they switched to SmithWesson Model 59s, but anyway,
point in case, um, this thisstory involves, you know, one of

(08:14):
my cop buddies was getting up togo to work.
I have told this story before onsome of my other videos, but I'm
gonna retell it here just sosome of you that haven't heard
it, y'all are gonna be like,holy crap.
Okay.
So he's getting ready to go towork, mining's on business.
Well, every morning, thisgentleman would put his gun belt
on, take his revolver out, makesure it's unloaded, holster the

(08:36):
revolver, and he would do abouta dozen to 15, maybe 20
presentations from his holsterevery morning, right?
He would, you know, stand withhis arms at his side, you know,
picture, I don't know, threat,whatever, some sort of stimulus,
and then draw his revolver andpoint it and do some dry fires,
you know, before he loaded thegun for the day to go about his

(08:58):
business, right?
So he would practice his draw,practice his presentation, and
just kind of, you know, gethimself accustomed to his gun
every single time he would goout uh on patrol that day.
Well, uh, this guy is afantastic pistol marksman, okay?
So obviously the shooting skillsare there, all right.
This is more about, hey, you youyes, you can shoot all day long,

(09:21):
but can you present?
Can you can you pull the gunfrom the holster, present it,
fire it, and do that in onesmooth motion that maybe it's
not the fastest draw in theworld, but it's smooth, right?
They say, they say slow issmooth and smooth is fast.
That type of thing.
Well, anyway, he practice hisdraw.
All right, I'm ready to leavefor the day, loads his revolver,

(09:42):
checks his stuff, calls in onthe radio, hey, I'm on the
coming on the way in, whatever,and proceeds to walk out the
front door.
Well, what would happen, mindyou?
A guy was waiting in the busheswith a shotgun.
All right, it was somebody hearrested sometime before.
Okay, I'm not gonna go into thedetails about what happened or
about what this arrest wasabout, but let's just say the

(10:03):
gentleman was highly disgruntledabout being arrested by this guy
and found out where he lived.
Well, Buddy pops out of thebushes with a shotgun and says,
I'm gonna kill you, and pointsit right at him.
And just as quickly as he couldassess the situation, he grabs
his Model 19 out of the holster,presents it in the same way he

(10:24):
just did in the house before heeven walked out the door, and
double action squeezes one rightin the guy's head, shoots him
right there in the head, rightthere in front of his house.
Killed him right there.
But the guy had a shotgun.
I mean, look, to be fair, he hada shotgun and pointed at him and
said, I'm gonna kill you.
I mean, that's he has a he he hecarry he he uh have it had a
threat and a way to carry itout.
And you must assume that ifsomeone's saying they're gonna

(10:46):
kill you and they point ashotgun at you, that they mean
it.
Okay.
And of course, they did all theresearch and they figured out,
oh man, this is somebodyarrested.
And then they put two and twotogether, like, oh, he must have
been trying to get some revenge.
Point is, it doesn't matter ifit's him, this cop that I'm
talking about, or if it issomebody um else uh that that
goes about things in the realworld.

(11:06):
Complacency is a killer, and youdon't ever want to be in a
position where you're not being,you know, you don't want to be
complacent when it comes tothese sorts of things, okay?
Now, would an average person bepresented with a situation like
that in some sort of regularcircumstance?
Maybe not as not as readilywould someone have to face a
threat like that under thosetypes of circumstances.

(11:29):
But how do you know someone'snot trying to rob you or or
worse?
Or maybe someone's just out forblood, you know, you never know.
But that's an example, okay,that I'm giving you a
long-winded example, but anexample of how um that training
didn't cost him anything.
You know, some dry firepresentations out of the holster

(11:50):
didn't cost him any ammo, didn'thave to fire a single shot, but
developing the muscle memorythat he needed to perform the
deed that he did.
Okay, now had he not gotten intothe habit of practicing his
presentations every day?
What if he was a lazy cop whohad a holster that was all
jacked up and his gun is gonnasnatch on his holster without

(12:11):
him realizing it?
I mean, you got to check yourstuff.
What if some stitches cameloose?
What if a button got tightenedthat wasn't supposed to get
tightened?
Or what if something broke onyour holster and now somehow the
gun won't come out of theholster?
If you're not checking yourequipment on a regular basis,
how do you know you can reallydepend on it?
Right?
How do you know your holster'snot gonna catch up or the gun's

(12:32):
gonna get caught or somethinglike that?
So by practicing hispresentations, he's not only
practicing the muscle memory ofpresenting the firearm, he's
also checking his gear, makingsure the retention on the
holster is good, making surenothing's gonna hang up, making
sure that when he draws thatgun, it's actually gonna come
out when he pulls it.
These are things that somepeople may not think about.
And these are tiny littletraining attributes that you can

(12:55):
add into your everyday life thatdon't cost you zero money.

SPEAKER_00 (12:58):
Yeah, I mean, the the presentation drills are
something that you knoweverybody should be doing.
I'm guilty of it.
Like I go out when I, especiallylike in the wintertime.
So like when it starts gettingfall, like it is right now, when
you're starting to have wear acouple more layers, you're
wearing either like a vest oryou're wearing uh a jacket.
And even in the wintertime, whenI wear my big puffy down jacket,

(13:20):
um, I'm still carrying.
So I'll, you know, like mostpeople in a master bedroom, you
have a full-length mirror.
Um, you're checking yourself,making sure you're like one,
you're not like printing toobad, like you know, nothing's
sticking out that shouldn't besticking out.
Um, and you know, if we're goingout to dinner or we're going to
go meet some friends, yeah,making sure you look right.
But you also have to make surethat you're getting that

(13:42):
presentation because hey, I'mnot, I only wear a jacket here
in Georgia.
Winter seasons, like two orthree months, man.
You're not wearing a big heavyjacket for very long.
So it's not something that we'reaccustomed to here in Georgia.
So you're wearing this bigjacket, like, can I even draw my
firearm?
Because I carry appendix.
So I'm like, all right, can I amI able to yank up?

(14:03):
Can I defeat the garment?
Can I pull my weapon?
So you're doing that a coupletimes before you leave the
house.
And then, like, once you'resatisfied, all right, if I need
to, I can I can draw thisfirearm.
Boom, I'm at the house.
Um, so yeah, I do that at leasttwo or three times just to get
that muscle memory down.

SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
So it's a pristine example.
Yeah.
Everyone's gonna look in themirror before they leave the
house.
Make it part of your protocol.
For the love of God, make sureyour gun's unloaded.
Don't shoot the mirror, please.
Uh, I'm gonna be quiteembarrassed if I hear a story
about one of y'all shooting themirror.
Let's try to avoid that if wecan, okay?
Do some presentations, make sureyou can get the gun in and out.

(14:40):
Those are little things that cango a long way.
And I can't tell you how manytimes I've I've heard of and
seen situations where peoplewill, you know, look, I
understand things are expensiveright now.
And people, you know, all right,they saved up some money, they
bought themselves a nice gun,they got themselves some
ammunition, maybe they boughtsome targets and some ear pro

(15:00):
and some, you know, safetyglasses, maybe they got
themselves some gloves, ashooting bag, et cetera, et
cetera.
You know, they're taking theirundertaking seriously, right?
They they want to make sure theycan show up to the range with
all their safety equipment,their PPE, uh their ammunition,
their targets, uh, all thethings they want to take to the
range, their spare magazines, etcetera, et cetera, their

(15:21):
cleaning kit, whatever it maybe, the things that you might
want to have.
Okay.
Uh, and they undergo this ritualof making sure they have all
their stuff, but then theydon't, you know, they go home
and they and they sort of justset the stuff in the corner in
their closet, and they don'tever touch the equipment again.
They might go to the range andtake a basic class, then it
stops there.

(15:41):
They feel like, oh, well, I knowhow to shoot the gun, I know how
to manipulate it, I can hit thetarget halfway decent.
Now I will never manipulate thisgun again.
And that's the wrong attitude.
It should always be sort of uh,it's like animal husbandry, like
the same way you take care ofyour bees.
Like the beekeeper can't justput a bunch of bees in a box and
just walk away and never, neversee them again.

(16:01):
No, like you've got toconstantly check on the health
of the hive, like you've got toconstantly fill their sugar
water up.
You've got to, you know, makesure that there's no ants
getting in the box.
Like it requires a little careon the part of the beekeeper.
And guns are the same way.
Like, you shouldn't just throwthe gun back in the case and go,
well, I've got it if I need it.
You should always, you know, ifyou're gonna go through the

(16:23):
process of carrying a gun, thenit would absolutely behoove you
to make sure that you practicethose presentation drills.
And those are free.
All right.
What's another way that you canpractice on the cheap?
Dry fire training.
Okay, now we've done some videosbefore on the channel and both
and also on the podcast, we'vetalked about like the cool fire
trainer system.

(16:43):
There's the Mantis X app that'sa dry fire training system.
Um, there's a ton of differentstuff like that out there that
you can utilize.
Snap caps, uh, if you want to golow-tech and you just want to
use action-proving dummies, youcan buy yourself a bunch of snap
caps and practice cycling thegun and dry firing it safely
without causing any sort ofdamage to the firearm.

(17:06):
Uh, if you want to train on thecheap and you don't want to
spend a lot of money, say youdon't want to buy the cool fire
trainer or the mantis app or anyof that other type of stuff, you
can always just get some snapcaps.
And when you're watching TV orsomething, watching a movie,
just sit there and manipulateyour gun.
I know it sounds crazy to bemessing with your gun while
you're watching a movie.
If you're single, you know,maybe if you have your spouse

(17:27):
with you, she's not interestedin hearing a gun clicking
throughout the whole movie.
But if you just want to sitthere while you're watching a
movie or something and justmanipulate the gun and squeeze
the trigger.
If you have a double singleaction, practice double action,
practice single action.
If you have a revolver, samething, right?
If you have a semauto, practicerunning the slide.
And here's a little trick, okay?

(17:49):
You want to really learn yourway around a gun.
Don't look at the gun while youdo it.
Don't look down the sights andpractice side alignment.
Just practice trigger squeeze.
And this is kind of one of thosecrazy things.
Watch the TV.
Don't pay attention to the gun.
Have you five or six magazinessitting there, okay?

(18:09):
And load five or six dummies ineach magazine.
For the love of God, boys andgirls, make sure they're snap
caps.
Don't put live ammunition inyour gun, please.
I'm gonna be real embarrassed ify'all shoot a hole through the
TV or through the living roomwall or wherever you might be,
okay?
Action-proving dummies, snapcaps, look them up, all right.
If you take your snap caps, loadup about five mags, all right,

(18:33):
without looking.
Grab the mag in the gun, cyclethe action, place a nice
squeeze, watch TV while you doit.
Don't even pay attention to thegun.
All right, maybe next to yourTV, put a little dot on the
wall, like one of those littleblack uh round stickers that you
see the stores use sometimes, orlike a little, even a white,

(18:53):
whatever color, a little roundsticker like you see the grocery
stores use.
Stick that on the wall next tothe TV.
And then while you're watchingTV, just divert your attention
to that dot and now practiceyour presentation and your
squeeze, one-handed, two-handed,whatever you want to do or both.
Weak-handed, strong-handed,one-handed, whatever you want to
do, single action, doubleaction.

(19:15):
Then get to the point where youcan drop and change magazines
without looking at the pistol.
This is all free.
You can do this in your livingroom.
You do not have to shoot liveammunition to get in some solid
gun handling skills.
Okay.
So keep that in mind.
Presentation, drawing.
Drawing and presentation are twodifferent things, right?

(19:36):
Drawing is the act of gettingthe gun out of the holster, like
Matt said.
If you have to clear garment,okay, you may have to clear a
garment, etc.
etc., depending on the wayyou're carrying.
Yeah, that's gonna dependdifferently.
Also, depending on your build.
Okay, now I'm talking some ofyou girthy folks out there.
Look, I mean, I used to begirthy myself.

(19:57):
If if you're a lar a littlelarger and you carry a pendants,
it's gonna be a little extra toget around, okay?
I mean, look, you get you, and Iknow it's painful for me to say
it, but you gotta get used toget it, get it out of the way.
Whatever is getting in the wayof you getting that gun out,
even if it's your own body, youknow who you are, and I'm not
causing anybody grief here.

(20:17):
I'm just saying the reality issome of us are a little heavier
than others, and that's okay.
Whatever it is, get it out ofthe way and practice getting the
gun out.
So drawing is the act of gettingthe gun out.
Presenting is the act, uh, guesswhat, of presenting the gun.
So work on presentations, workon drawing, work on side
alignment, trigger squeeze, uh,firearms manipulation, running

(20:38):
the slide, dropping magazines,inserting magazines.
Those are all things you can doin the comfort of your home that
require zero dollars.

SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Absolutely.
And I think that you know, thepresentation and um defeating
the garment, clearing thegarment, drawing the draw
stroke, those are probably themost important part of shooting.
Like pulling the trigger is theeasy part.
It's it's being superconsistent.
And think of this like any othertype of like sport or athletic.

(21:08):
I don't uh and people are like,oh, shooting isn't a sport.
It's a major sport.
There's a lot of high-levelshooters out there that are
representing, you know, eitherweapons companies, gun
companies, or themselves.
Um, there and there's lots oflow-cost opportunities for you
guys to go out and compete ifyou want.
But just remember, half of thepeople that are uh competing,

(21:30):
they're doing the free trainingthemselves.
It costs them nothing.
They're just working ondrawstroke presentation, super
important.
Have to be consistent with thepresentation every single time.
When you're bringing thatweapon, you're presenting it.
When you squeeze the trigger,it's already going where it's
going.
Like you, it's just the way itis.
Um, now, as far as Snapcap goes,barrier to entry, very low.

(21:54):
If you're a fan of Amazon, saywhat you want.
I like Amazon.
You can buy them on Amazon.
Yeah, I bought my Snapcaps onAmazon.

SPEAKER_01 (22:01):
I think you can get like a six-pack for like 15
bucks or something.
Yeah, a couple of dollars orsomething.

SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Yeah, somewhere in the line of nine to fifteen
dollars, depending on like howfancy you want to go.
You have the snap caps that havethe little internal springs that
kind of absorb the shock of thestriker.
Yeah, um, if you have a wheelgun, you don't even need that.
So they just have like theregular snap caps because it's
just gonna start banging themout.

SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
Um you can also make snap caps.

SPEAKER_00 (22:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
That's probably not an option that many of you can
explore, but they can you canmake your own.

SPEAKER_00 (22:33):
You just put a round in a empty.

SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
Yeah, you can you can seed a bullet back into a
fired case.
And what I used to do isactually take the primer cup,
pull the anvil out, and takemyself uh a piece of thick
pencil eraser and put the rubberdown into the cup and then seed
it, and now you have like alittle rubber cup.

SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
Yeah.
Make sure you pull the primer oruse one that's already used.
Like as Eric would say, for thelove of God, don't go and don't
go and pull one out, dump outthe dump out the powder, and
then just reseat the round anduse it because you will get a
snap.
All right, that will definitelybe.

SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
You can make your own, but the reason that I like
the factory snap caps is becausethey are clearly not a live
round.
Yeah, they're orange.
You can't get it confused.
If you if you take a piece ofammunition that used to be a
live ammunition and make yourown dummy-proving cartridge or
snap cap, uh, now you have toworry about keeping up with it.
Now, one way you can do that isjust take yourself a Sharpie and

(23:29):
paint uh the bullet red or paintit green or blue, or you know,
paint it some off-color so youdon't accidentally get it mixed
up with a live cartridge.
I would say for beginners, snapcaps are going to be your most
foolproof way to make sure youhave your action-proving um, you
know, type of stuff in play.

SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
It it also helps you feel confident in carrying with
one in the chamber.
Um, that was really what when Ifirst started carrying years and
years and years ago.
Obviously, you know, carryingappendix has its own challenges
as far as trusting your gear.
Um, you know, no one wants to godown that route of getting shot
down there.

(24:06):
No one wants their dick shotoff.
Yeah, for lack of a better term.
Um, and trust me, man, whenyou're driving in your car and
that thing is like right there,you're like, holy crap, this
thing is this if this goes off,like I'm done for.
So, you know, to kind of getover that, uh, I did some
research and someone had a youknow said something really um,
you know, I would say authentic.

(24:27):
They said, hey, put a snap capin there.
That's the first round, rack it,keep it, because obviously you
want it in the chamber in thepipe, and carry it.
And every day I would wear that,I would come home, and they
said, pull the trigger when youget home.
And every day I would come home,I'd you know, take it off, I'd
pull the trigger, it'd go clickevery time.
Click, click, click.

(24:48):
And that kind of solidified mybelief in the gear and in the
weapon that, like, hey, thisthing is not gonna go off unless
you purposely pull the trigger.

SPEAKER_01 (24:57):
The safety, yeah, the safety works.
The holster is a defectiveholster that's not gonna allow
the gun to accidentallydischarge.
I mean, look, holster designsare a thing, and you know, most
mainstream holster manufacturersdo a really good job of making
obviously an extremely safeholster.
Uh, but there have beensituations, and I'm not gonna

(25:17):
necessarily mention specificsituations, but I'm just gonna
mention that they have happened.
There have been situations wherea person's holster was at fault
for why the gun discharged.
And that's usually because aperson doesn't have the safety
on.
Quite frankly, a lot of timesit's 1911s and things like that,
or single-action pistols with asingle action trigger, and

(25:39):
someone has the hammer back,maybe the safety's not on, and
sometimes the holster cansqueeze the trigger in just the
wrong way and the wrong amountof pressure being put on the
gun, et cetera, et cetera.
There are some circumstanceswhere a gun can discharge in a
holster.
It's rare, but you shouldalways, again, vet your
equipment because of thatreason.

SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Well, the thing you run into a lot, and that's one
of the reasons I don't use alight on my weapon, is because
you see that a more often thannot with weapons that have
weapon-mounted lights on them,because the the light is the
retention device, not the actualweapon.
So they have to create theholster around the light, so
that leaves space for likeforeign objects to get in there

(26:20):
and kind of snag on that.
And you know, I carry a gun thatdoesn't use a uh external
safety.
So that's very important to me.
So I don't use a I don't use aweapon mountain light for that
reason, just because I've seenand experienced a lot of stuff
like that.
Um, not to say it's a bad ideaif hey, if that's your cup of
tea and you trust your gear, gofor it.
Uh, I just don't trust it as aretention, a point of retention

(26:42):
for the weapon.
Um shotguns, guys.
There is no better training toolthan the snap caps for shotguns,
especially if you have a pumpthat really allows you to get
used to cycling the ammunitionand loading the ammunition.
And I mean, get yourself, theysell they sell them big orange
faux 12-gauge shotgun slugs orshells, and it allows you to

(27:06):
feed them in there, boom, boom,boom, you can rack it four or
five times, get the feelingbecause racking an empty shotgun
is different than racking ashotgun that you're having to
force an empty hole out of.
And quite frankly, a lot of itcan get jammed up.
Like if you might have to likesit there and try a couple
times.
So get used to that as well.
Um, you don't necessarily likeagain, shooting the shotgun, the

(27:29):
easiest part is manipulating theshotgun because they're very if
you're not used to it, like itcan be very intimidating.
You're holding a blunder bus,essentially.

SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
That's true.
You know, shotguns do require,you know, a little bit of
finesse.
And you know, they finesse, butalso, you know, you have to know
when to manhandle them.
With a pump shotgun, don't beafraid to, you know, drive
smartly to the rear until itstops, and then push smartly
back up front until everythinglocks up.
And especially in the firingcycle of a shotgun where, you

(28:00):
know, when you are withdrawingan empty shell, but also putting
in another shell.
So that it all feels a littlebit different.
So the more you shoot them, themore you get used to it.
And a lot of pump actions areactually quite um quite
forgiving.
Um, one of the most forgivingones is the Browning BPS.
They are very smooth uh and veryforgiving.
And I would say that theMossbergs are probably a little

(28:22):
more forgiving than theRemingtons.
Um, so anyway, that's a greatpoint on Matt's part.
The other thing that I'llmention too is gun cleaning, gun
maintenance.
So um, let's say you don't havea lot of money to train, but
let's say maybe you went outlast time and and did some
training and uh you still wantto mess around with some of your
gun manipulation, but you don'treally have money to go to the

(28:45):
range and shoot, and maybeyou're tired of dry firing, uh,
engage in some maintenance.
Um learn how to take your gunapart and clean it.
Uh that's part of being a gunowner anyway.
You should absolutely practicemaintaining your firearm, and it
allows you to become moreproficient with your firearm.
The more times you take itapart, the more times you get
used to it, the more proficientyou are.

(29:08):
And it's it's way, way better asa gun owner to know how to
diagnose your own minorproblems, how to take your gun
apart and clean it, learn how totake your magazines apart, clean
the magazine bodies, all ofthat.
And you'll find that in theevent you do have to use your
firearm, you're gonna be in thebest possible situation to be
able to have make sure that yourfirearm is at its absolute best

(29:30):
performance in that moment whenyou need it by keeping it clean.
So if for whatever reason youdon't want to do any training,
but you feel like messing withyour guns, pull them apart and
clean them.
Uh, that's a great way to get ina little time with your guns and
actually mess around withhandling your guns without
actually having to spend anymoney.
Now, um, let's segue a littlebit, Matt, to all right, what

(29:50):
are some low cost trainingthings that we can do?
Maybe a minimal amount of cost.
There's still some costinvolved, but probably the best
thing that we can do fortraining.
That requires the least amountof money but still allows us to
actually fire live ammunition.
You can see where I'm going withthis, is 22s.

SPEAKER_00 (30:08):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
22s are a huge, huge, huge benefit to someone
who wants to train for a veryminimal amount of money.
And even someone who's trainingon a budget generally can afford
to buy a few boxes of 22ammunition.

SPEAKER_00 (30:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
So 22, just make sure you'resticking to like your more
atypical 22, like your 22 LR.
Um, I mean, yeah, all there'smore for those, I know some of
you know there's different 22s.
There's like 22 Magnum, there's22 LR, there's like a few others
that are kind of obscure.

(30:43):
So just stick for the 22 LR.
The ammunition is plentiful forthe most part.
That's where you're gonna getyour cost savings at.
Um, so yeah, if you can get outthere, um, even if you get to a
gun range, you can sit there andplink for quite a while at a gun
range with 22s.
Um, next, I would say uh stickto your more common rounds, like

(31:06):
nine mil.
Obviously, those are gonna beplentiful.
I know everybody wants to uh youknow have like the the coolest
gadget.
They're like, oh, I want 45, Iwant 40, I want this, and like
that.
When you start getting off intothe weeds on the a little the
more obscure rounds, you'regonna pay more.
That's you're pricing yourselfout of of training at that

(31:28):
point.
It's like the guys that havelike 300 blackout, like, all
right, you're not you're notshooting that for training, like
you're gonna shoot that and thenthat's it.

SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
Like so there are some options um for that as
well.
Okay, so say that all right,Matt mentioned that you want the
cool guy gun, but you you know,maybe you don't want to get you
maybe you have your your carrygun.
Let's say you have a Glock orsomething, or or whatever type
of pistol, and your carry gun islet's say a nine millimeter, but
you don't want to always have togo and buy four or five boxes of

(31:57):
nine millimeter to go out andtrain.
You want a 22 instead.
Well, you know, Glock makes adedicated 22 pistol.

SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
So you can always purchase.
Now it does represent anadditional cost to buy a second
gun in 22 to train with, butmany people do that, right?
Some people will just buy adedicated 22 just to have to
train with in lieu of theircenter fire guns as well.
And that's more my route.
Um, I like the Ruger 1022 forjust general training.

(32:26):
Um, I like them because they'reaccurate, they're handy, you
have fast follow-up shots,they're semi-automatic.
Um, the magazines hold a decentamount of ammunition.
So, as a backup semi-auto, let'ssay you have an AR and you
don't, you know, want to haveonly one rifle that's a
semi-auto, you want to have abackup.
The 1022 is a fantastic backupthat I would totally recommend.

(32:48):
You can also get bolt conversiondevices.
Um, CMMG sells a bolt uh carrieruh insert that you can basically
pull the 556 carrier out and usetheir dedicated magazines and
carrier, and you can convert anexisting 556 uh AR over to 22
long rifle.

(33:09):
And you get the benefit of usingthe same magazine, same sights,
same flashlights, same whatevergadgets you have on the gun.
You are training with the actualgadgets that are on your full
rifle that you have in 5.56 asyour home defense option.
So um there are conversiondevices, there are dedicated
22s, uh, many pistol companies.

(33:29):
Uh I can't, I mean, maybeWalther, HK, SIG.
I mean, there's a few pistolcompanies that make their nine
millimeter version, and thenthey have a nearly identical 22
version that you can purchase aswell for training.

SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
Yeah, and that might be an option for some of you.
And they're often marketed astrainers.
So you'll see, like, oh, likethe Walther, like trainer or
youth.
So like it's marketed, you know,obviously for youth slash
training, but it has the samemanual of arms like Eric
mentioned.
That's really why you would wantit.
So like you have the ARs thatare uh 22s, the Glocks that are

(34:03):
22s, you know, the Walthers orwhatever.
It's it's you want the samemanual of arms.
So you're again when you'reworking your presentation, when
you're working your drawstroke,your holsters still work, your
accessories still work.
Like everything is the same.
It's just the ammunition isdifferent.
Um you're of course not going tohave the same recoil or anything
like that, but that is neitherhere nor there.

(34:25):
Like you're getting the sametraining for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
I feel like a 22 is a great option for practicing
your trigger control, yourpresentation, your drawing and
presentation, your triggercontrol, your breathing, your
sight picture, testing youraccuracy, see how accurately you
shoot.
I mean, in the moment of truth,let's say that all you can
afford is to train with a 22 allthe time, and you don't really

(34:50):
have as much opportunity tosling full powered nine
millimeter.
I mean, I would recommend youtry to shoot some full powered
nine or whatever your carry gunis, say it's a 40 or 45 or 5'7
by 28, whatever your carry gunis, I would obviously recommend
trying to spend some timeshooting the full power version
at least here and there, asoften as you can.
But if all you let's say all youdo is train 22 and nothing else,

(35:14):
does that mean that when you goto switch to 9mm and in the
moment of truth, you'vepracticed your presentation,
you've practiced your drawing,you've practiced your trigger
squeeze and your side alignmentand all of these sort of dry
fire, dry run things that buildmuscle memory?
And let's say you go out to theuh the range live and when you
shoot 22, it's super accurate,you're hitting everything you

(35:34):
aim at.
Does that mean that when youswitch to a nine millimeter,
that you're all of a suddenyou're not gonna hit the right
side of a bar and you're gonnabe a terrible shot?
I think that answer is no.
I mean, I think in the moment oftruth, if you know your
adrenaline kicks in, you'reprobably not gonna think about
it.
I mean, nine millimeter doesn'tkick that hard.
So it's not like the recoildifference is gonna be something

(35:56):
that's so extreme that it'sgonna put you at some major
disadvantage.
Now, are there situations whereyou may be at a disadvantage if
you don't train with full powerammunition?
I think the answer is yes.
Maybe in the case of very, verysmall 380s or small revolvers,
okay?
Or even um like your Micro 9,such as the SIG P365.

(36:18):
I mean, the 365 is a fantastichandgun, but it is a snappy
little devil.
And the smaller the gun is, themore the inherit recoil forces
are going to have an effect onyour ability to maintain control
of the gun, to have fastfollow-up shots, and more
importantly, to be accurate andmaintain side alignment.
And quite frankly, the smallerthe gun, the hard it is to

(36:40):
manipulate in terms of grabbingit, getting a good purchase on
it, pulling it, presenting it.
So is that to say that if youjust spend a lot of time
cranking out rounds from a small22, that you're going to be able
to go right over to a Ruger LCPor to a SIG P365 or to some
other type of very small micro 9and be able to shoot it just as

(37:01):
accurately as a 22, I thinkthat's where maybe some more
inexperienced shooters mighthave some problem because the
smaller the gun, the more therecoil forces are apparent.
And if you're not used tofeeling those recoil uh forces
in training, it may surprise youin the moment of truth.
Now, hopefully it wouldn't.
The larger the gun, the lessthat factor of surprise is gonna

(37:23):
be uh relevant.

SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
No, I agree.
I have never seen someone shootbetter with a smaller micro gun
than with a larger full-sizegun.
It just doesn't happen.
It's it's it's like justphysics, all right?
Like physics, inertia, mass.
Right, all of it works in yourfavor with a larger gun.

SPEAKER_01 (37:41):
There is no such thing as a free lunch in
physics, y'all.
Okay, the smaller the gun, themore you recoil forces you're
gonna feel.
Yes, the easier it is to hide,the easier it is to conceal.
Those are all good things,right?
But generally speaking, it'sgonna require a little bit more
time on your part to be familiarwith it.

SPEAKER_00 (37:59):
Yeah.
Uh and uh I'll go back to youyou mentioned something that you
know kind of hit a hit a chordwith me.
In jujitsu, we have a saying,and it's uh the mats don't lie.
So you can go around as a as apractitioner and you can make
yourself believe that you'rebetter than you are, that you
know, you're a higher rank,you're a higher belt, you can

(38:21):
lie about these things.
But the truth is when you go outthere to actually practice and
train, the mats don't lie.
The the truth will reveal itselfwhen you're out there fighting
other people because they willtell, like, you are not that
good, or the truth will revealitself to yourself and you're
gonna say, I'm not as good as Ithought I was.

SPEAKER_01 (38:42):
Right.
Which that's good too, becausethat that makes you improve.

SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
It does, but the same thing can be said about
firearms.
When you were talking about, oh,switching from a 22 to a nine
millimeter, if you're a if youlack the fundamentals, then you
lack the fundamentals, andswitching your caliber isn't
gonna help.
Just because if you're if youare a bad shot with a nine
millimeter, you're also going tobe a bad shot with a 22 because

(39:09):
the fundamentals are why you'renot shooting correctly, not the
caliber.
Once you tighten up on the 22and you have the correct
fundamentals and everything isuh consistent, that's gonna
carry over to the ninemillimeter.
That's gonna carry over to the45, possibly, if your grip can
take it.
Um, but that's what it comes,and that's what it reminded me

(39:31):
of because I was like, a lot ofpeople get in the habit of like,
oh, it's the gun.
Oh, it's the it's the I'm notused to this caliber.
Oh, I shoot better with this.
Like, no.
If you're a good shot, you canpick up anything and be
consistent.
Are you shooting bullseyes oneverything?
No, but you're hitting you'rehitting A zone on whatever you
pick up because the fundamentalsare allowing you to hit the A

(39:53):
zone.

SPEAKER_01 (39:54):
The only thing a 22 really does is just give you
more trigger time and have a lowconsequence trigger time with
less recoil, uh, you know, andall that sort of thing.
You get to shoot more, you getmore trigger time with the 22.
But if your fundamentals stuck,uh suck, you're still not gonna
hit the right side of a barnwith a 22, like Matt said.

(40:14):
So 22 simply give you theability to train more, shoot
more, and ultimately work onyour fundamentals more.

SPEAKER_00 (40:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
So that's an important consideration.
Here's another question we'llask, all right?
Or at least we'll pose this thisquestion here in today's
podcast.
How good of a shot does anaverage person need to be to
protect themselves adequately?
Let's just say against thepublic at large.

(40:41):
Um your average person who isuntrained versus the average
person who has maybe a bit oftraining, how much more
dangerous is a person who haseven the modest amount of
training than just your averageoff-the-street person who likely
has never touched a gun in theirlife?
Well, for one, the person who'snever touched a gun in their
life is probably not the personthat's gonna use a gun to harm

(41:02):
you.
So you have to assume thatwhoever's gonna carry a gun and
try to use it against you, be ita criminal or whatever, let's
just say someone who's intent oncommitting a crime, maybe
they're gonna rob you, maybethey're gonna shoot you, maybe
they're gonna, you know,whatever they're gonna do,
kidnap your kid, steal your car.
I don't know.
They're hell bent on using afirearm to commit a crime.

(41:23):
All right.
That person, I guarantee you,they've they've practiced with
that gun a bit.
I mean, they may not be thebest.
Now, there are a lot of dumbcriminals out there.
You may run into a criminalwho's an absolute idiot and
didn't even have a round in thechamber or a magazine in the
gun.
Or, you know, there are manysituations where um criminals
have gotten uh wiped out.

(41:43):
I mean, I'm talking just shotand killed over stupid crap
because they didn't actuallyeven, you know, have a round in
the gun, or they made someextremely dumb, fatal mistake
because they assume that themere presence of the gun is
enough to rile a person up andget them to comply with their uh
criminal activities.

(42:04):
And of course, someone who's allthe wiser.
I know there was one shootingvideo that I watched one time
where a person had a gun pulledon them and it was a really
expensive gun guy.
I don't remember if it was atrainer, it was or a cop, it was
it was somebody who was veryexperienced with guns.
Well, the guy pulled a gun onhim and the slide was cheated
back, and he he could tell thatthe gun, that the gun was

(42:26):
jammed.
So he knew it wasn't gonna fire.
So he pulled his gun and shotthe guy.

SPEAKER_00 (42:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:31):
Because he knew that that guy didn't know what the
heck he was doing.
And what person who's gonna gointo a shooting situation, a
shooting environment, anenvironment where you're gonna
use your gun and point it atanother person and hate, and
you're gonna walk up knowingyour gun's jacked up that you
don't even have around in thechamber, those are all dumb
mistakes.
And yes, criminals make dumbmistakes.

(42:51):
Again, that provides thequestion, okay?
How trained does an averageperson need to be to be able to
survive against the averagemoron out there who's trying to
hurt someone with a gun?
You ain't gotta be John Wick.
You don't have to be the mosttrained person in the world.
You know, the likelihood you'regonna go up against a John Wick

(43:12):
type person who is extremelygood, or go up against somebody
like Jerry Mitchelick, someonewith that level of training and
speed and proficiency, thelikelihood of you going up
against a shooter who's thatgood, who is not already a good
person that wants to harm you isprobably slim to none.
You really, and I'm not sayingdon't get to that level.
I'm not saying don't trainyourself to the utmost level you

(43:34):
can.
What I'm saying is the averagevillain out there is pretty
dumb.
Okay.
Even the average honest personout there is not probably going
to be your most brightest personin the world.
I mean, look, it's just let'sface it, like there's a lot more
people who are, let's just say,you know, maybe a little, a
little indisposed towards maybenot knowing more than they do,

(43:58):
especially when it comes toguns.
So if you have good proficiency,you make an effort to carry the
gun properly in a correctholster, you practice your um
drawing and presentation, youspend a little bit of time with
trigger squeeze, side alignment,get a little training in, you
are already a million stepsahead of the average person out

(44:19):
there that is untrained.
You are a million steps aheadbecause the average person,
especially, who doesn't wantanything to do with guns,
certainly doesn't know anything.
They know way less than you,even if you have the most modest
amount of training.
Another great example isweightlifting, right?
When you again, I don't want togo far down this rabbit hole,
but I know Matt can can agreewith me on this, is like whether

(44:42):
it's someone who's trainingjujitsu or whether it's somebody
who is doing um, you know,weightlifting, like in my case,
I do powerlifting.
All right, even the lowestperson training jujitsu or
training powerlifting is gonnabe already way more disciplined
than the average person by ahuge margin, simply by showing
up to the gym, putting in thework, and staying consistent.

(45:05):
You may not be the most skilledcompared to the other people
competing jujitsu.
But for the, and I suppose it'sprobably best to let Matt
comment on this, I'll commentmore on the power lifting.
If someone's coming in and doingpower lifting and they're
staying at it on a consistentbasis, they're probably already
stronger than 90% of the normalpeople out there in the world

(45:26):
just by proxy of the fact thatthey show up to the gym and they
work, and they're already goingto be way stronger than your
average person.
You can't compare yourself toother people in the gym.
You can only compare yourself tonormies, right?
Now, if I go in the gym and Ibench 255 and a powerlifting
meet 255 is not a big bench atall.
It's actually quite a quite aweak bench, right?

(45:47):
But to the untrained normalperson out there that's that
probably can't even bench oneplate, much less two, you might
as well be He-Man compared tothose people.
So you can't compare yourself tothe best.
You have to compare yourself tothe worst.
And I know that's a hardmentality.
I'm not saying don't be thebest.
I'm not saying don't strive tobe the best you can be.
I'm saying that the reality is,is the person who's going to

(46:09):
bring you harm in the world witha gun is probably not going to
be your brightest person.
Because for one, they're alreadyusing a gun to commit a crime,
and that already requires acertain amount of stupidity.
Especially in this world,knowing that everybody's
probably got a dang gun, you'rea moron to want to try to hurt
somebody.
But let's just say I feel likethe majority of the people who
engage in that type of conductare probably not going to be

(46:30):
your smartest people anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (46:32):
Yep.
No, I I agree.
And it doesn't take much, likeyou said.
I think there was anotherexample of that uh it was a
Jimmy Johns.
A guy was trying to rob a JimmyJohns, and he pulled a gun on
the cash poor cashier, and thecashier looked at the gun and
saw that uh there the slide waskind of uh jammed.
And the cashier was like, No,I'm not he he didn't like grab

(46:54):
the gun, but he was just like,No, I'm not gonna give you the
money.
It was it was a pretty funny uhvideo, and the guy just like
ended up leaving.
He was like, ah, and he justwalked away.
And they interviewed the guy.
He was like, Yeah, you could seethat the gun was jammed, and I
didn't have to actually do it.

SPEAKER_01 (47:08):
Or someone points a gun at you and it's got an
orange tip, it's a fake.
Oh my god, yeah.
So let's that stuff happens.

SPEAKER_00 (47:14):
So let's uh so we we talked about like basically free
training, right?
We talked about some low-costbudget options, and we're still
gonna stay budget conscious, buteverybody's budget is different,
all right.
Your idea of what cost savingsis is different than what mine
is.
Mine, when I look at training, Ilook at something like what's a

(47:35):
good value, all right.
There's a difference betweenbudget conscious and value.
I am a value shopper.
I look for something that shouldshould be worth more money, but
it's not.
So if I'm talking like, oh,let's do a two-day shooting
class or a three-day shootingclass, all right?

(47:56):
Let's break that down.
When you go to a shooting range,let's say you go to whatever
such and such indoor shootingrange.
They have some really niceshooting ranges here in Georgia.
We are blessed here in the Southwhere we have some nice gun
clubs, all right?
Stoddards.
Yep.
You have like, well, for namingnames, you have like governors,

(48:17):
you have like they have likeindoor uh skeet ranges.
So you can actually go indoorand shoot skiet.

SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
Governors is nice, Stoddard's is nice.

SPEAKER_00 (48:28):
Um, you know, and they're very large.
They have like they're likecountry clubs, man.
They got steakhouses on theinside of them.
Like you're making reservations,they have like cigar lounges,
like it's it's pretty posh, man.
Pretty legit.
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie.
Um, and you can go in there anddrop hundreds of dollars, like
easy, like gun rentals, rangerentals, dinner, ammunition, fun

(48:52):
for the family, like all kindsof stuff.
So now you look at like a youknow, a regular shooting class,
like a purpose-driven two-dayshooting class with
professionals, anywhere betweenfour to six hundred dollars.
All right.
And that's two days of like fullinstruction.
This isn't like, oh, we're gonnago and we're gonna train for two

(49:14):
hours, take a break, come backfor two hours.
It's legit like six or sevenhours of instruction.
You take a short lunch break,you brownbag your lunch because
you're not leaving the range,you brownbag your lunch and
you're back at it for two daysstraight.
Like your hands hurt, guys.
Like you're shooting so much,like 500 rounds of ammunition,
like your hands are sore, yourfingers are sore.

(49:38):
Like 400 bucks, that's a gooddeal, man.
Like, if you break that down,yes, you have to provide your
own ammunition, but thetraining, the hours of training
you get out of those two days isimmeasurable.
You're taking that back to yourreal world.
Like, to me, that is probablythe best deal that you're gonna
get.
Now, here is the escalation offorce, guys.

(50:00):
If you have zero experience,that is not something you do
first.
You don't jump into a two-dayRDS pistol course without having
any experience.
You have to be familiar, likeI'm not saying you have to be an
expert, but go to the shootingrange and familiarize yourself
with the weapon, load themagazines because guess what?

(50:23):
Those instructors are not thereto babysit you, they're there to
say, hey, and matter of fact, ifyou're not competent, they don't
allow you on the line, put itthat way.
If you show up to that class andyou're kind of fumbling around,
it's not that they're trying togatekeep the class, they have to
ensure safety for everybody onthe line.

SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
True.

SPEAKER_00 (50:41):
You're right so it's their responsibility to make
sure that everybody stays safe.
If you're fumbling around, ifyou're kind of not, if you don't
look like you're very likeconfident, they might work with
you to make you confident.
But if you're just kind of like,you know, Mr.
Bean over there, nah, bro.
You're they're they're gonnathey're gonna, hey, you just

(51:02):
watch, or you know what?
It is what it is.
Yeah, but safety first on inthat particular uh aspect.

SPEAKER_01 (51:09):
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(52:34):
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And a big thanks to our friendsat Allegiance Gold for being a
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So one thing that I want tomention, Matt, um, to get back
to your point is that yes, thosetypes of training classes are
great and they do require maybea little bit upper beginner to
intermediate level toparticipate in some of those
more advanced training classes.

(52:55):
Uh, you can go and take basicclasses with an instructor uh
for like maybe like an hour ortwo.
Okay.
So he had mentioned thosetwo-hour classes.
Uh, that is a thing.
Let's say that you're brand newto guns, but you want an
instructor to spend some timewith you and go over some safety
with you for a couple of hours,go over all the basics, loading

(53:15):
and unloading, uh, triggersqueeze, side alignment, you
know, those basic things thatyou need to manipulate the gun.
Let's just call it firearmsmanipulation.
If you need some help in that,there are trainers that
specialize sort of in that basic101 level uh gun handling.
And sometimes those classes, youknow, can be had for you know
$100 to$150 for a single class.

(53:37):
Now, granted, it's only maybetwo or three hours, but that's a
huge uh deal if maybe you have alimited amount of money.
Maybe you already boughtyourself a$500 gun and a whole
bunch of accoutrements and ammoand things.
So what's another$150 at thatrate to take a basic class
teaching you the basics?
Now, there are a lot of greatvideos on YouTube that give you

(53:58):
a very basic overview of some ofthese things.
In fact, I might actually make afew videos on my own just for
the good of the group uh andeverything like that to try to
help people that are new toguns, okay?
Uh when it comes to the actualgun handling and some of the
tenets of safety uh that youneed to consider, which uh there
are some basic rules that onceyou understand them, it's pretty

(54:18):
simple to make sure you don'tget hurt and that nobody around
you gets hurt either.
Uh, but I wanted to add to whatMatt said that that yes, you you
absolutely, you know, can go themore advanced training route.
Sometimes the more advancedtraining classes, um, some of
the instructors, like let's sayit's a slow time of year and
they know they're not booking alot of classes.
Now, a lot of instructorsgenerally are booked out pretty

(54:41):
solid, but let's just say maybethere's a window of opportunity
where a trainer just doesn'thave a lot booked and he wants
to fill his classes up,sometimes offer discounts.
So if you have a trainer you'reinterested in training with,
right, no matter who it may be,and you want to take a class,
follow their social media andlook out for that sort of stuff.
If you're you're morevalue-minded, you're more savvy,

(55:03):
and let's say you're open to youknow when you actually go and
train and you don't mind, youknow, you have a flexible
schedule, yeah, wait for adiscount.
They may say, hey, we've goteight more slots for this class
and I'm doing them for 25% off.
All right, well, there's 25%off.
That saves you some money.
So um, it may not be a ton ofmoney, but hey, saving money, if
the point here is to save money,don't hesitate to wait on some

(55:26):
of those deals to pop through.
Same thing goes for ammo.
Like Matt said, let's say you dowant to shoot nine millimeter
and you don't want to mess witha 22.
Well, by all means, every timeyou go to the store, look at the
nine millimeter and see what theprices are.
You know, if they have it markeddown to$11.99 a box because
somebody in the warehouseaccidentally transposed a number
on the invoice and they orderedtwo pallets instead of one.

(55:49):
Oh, we have way too much ammo.
We have to get rid of it.
We weren't expecting to buy thatmuch ammo.
Well, not that they would.
Most places, they're gonna ordera lot of ammo.
But let's just say it's asmaller shop and they're like,
oh crap, we ordered way too muchand we need to get rid of it
quick.
Then yeah, they may blow it outfor the cool guy price until
they get down to a comfortablelevel that they want to stock.
And you might have anopportunity to buy brass case

(56:11):
nine millimeter for$10.99 a boxor$11.99 a box.
And if that's the case, sure.
Buy a bunch of it, uh, buy cheapand stack deep if you can afford
it at the time.
You know, you're saving yourself20-30% on a box of ammo.
Or you go in and they have carryammo priced out uh on sale or
something.
Yeah, maybe then you youpurchase some carry ammo for a

(56:31):
reduced rate.
So you can always be smart andsavvy as a shopper and and save
yourself money as you go along.

SPEAKER_00 (56:38):
That's always a good feeling.
When you walk in and you seelike carry ammo, you're like, is
that spear gold dot?
Is that critical D?
Oh, and you'd like to be like$25a box and$50?
Oh man, you don't know if youwant to become like a hoarder or
if you want to leave some on theshelf for the next guy.
And you're just like, oh, butlet's be real, guys, no one's
out there shooting up a ton ofcarry ammo.

(57:00):
So leave some on the shelf, getenough for yourself.
Yeah, you know, the the like I'mprobably honestly, I cycle
through my carry ammo maybe oncea year.
Like I'll go and I'll I'll atthe end of the year, shoot it
up, I'll I'll shoot it up andI'll replace it.
Because they they start tostart, they start to uh what is
that called when the roundstarts set back?
Yeah, you get you start gettinga lot of setback, and I rotate

(57:21):
the rounds out, but then theyall start getting setback.
Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 (57:25):
If you chamber the same round over and over, you
will eventually begin to get setback.
It's probably not a problem, youknow, really.
But you know, everyone has thatone jank round on top that's
been chambered like a milliontimes.
And it's like, you know what, Ishould probably just cycle this
out or throw it in the trash andget another one or something.
So um that's that's a very goodpoint to bring up.

SPEAKER_00 (57:44):
So just so you guys know what he's what Eric's
talking about, it's you'll seeit.
Like that that round will startto get pushed farther back into
the actual shell or casing.

SPEAKER_01 (57:55):
If the length of the of the round starts to decrease
and it looks like it's gettingshorter, you put it next to
another one and it's shorter,that's setback.
It means the round that the thechambering of the round
constantly has overcome thecrimp of the round and cause
that uh the the bullet itself toset back into the case a bit.
And excessive amounts can spikepressure on a plus p round.

(58:16):
Is it going to destroy your gun?
No, probably not, because theybuild in a certain degree of
safety, a margin of error intothose things.
But it's just something to lookfor.
It's one of those many thingsthat you should keep your eye
out for.
And I mean, a carry round is 60cents.
Why risk it over 60 cents?
Just cycle the ammo out fromtime to time.
I think that's a very astute wayto do it.

SPEAKER_00 (58:36):
So uh Eric mentioned, I know we're running
short on time.
I was gonna say it.
Um, look at your local, if youwant to do some of those more
intermediate classes, advancedclasses, look at your local
trainers.
Um, you know, here in Georgia,we have quite a few that are
very good.
But you mentioned that like toblow it out the end of the year.
The one that comes to mind umwas uh John Lovell, like Warrior

(58:59):
Poet Society.
He'll he'll could because and Isay that because he's local here
in Georgia.
So you'll see, you'll he'llyou'll see he'll he'll post
like, oh, we got like threespots available for a rifle one
or pistol one here in Georgia.
He's he stays pretty booked upeverywhere else, but in Georgia,
you can only go back to thewealth so many times, right?
Everybody at one at some pointin time, everybody's gonna go

(59:21):
ahead and take that course.
Um, so when he posts that jumpon it, man, he usually blows it
out at like a little bit of adiscount to fill those seats to
fill those slots up.
Yeah, and you're good to go.

SPEAKER_01 (59:30):
But and I will say, Level is a really good
instructor too.
You know, he's he's a mellowguy, you know.
He he's you know, John's apretty hardcore guy overall, but
he is very mellow and he's veryserious.
And you know, he kind of youknow, he has that sort of
mentality about him, but buthe's a very good trainer and
he's very good at articulatinghis points to people.

(59:51):
And he does it in a way it's notgonna make you feel bad or
anything.
I mean, if someone makes amistake now, he's gonna he's
gonna be pissed.
Like, you know, if you dosomething unsafe, he's gonna
call.
It quick, but in in general, aslong as everyone's listening and
doing well, he's a greattrainer, and and he is very good
at what he does.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:07):
John is so it's like a it's like taking a class and
it's nothing but dad jokes, likeeverything is compared to like a
dad joke.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:14):
You're like, ah, never-ending dad jokes with John
for sure.
But but he's a good guy, and uhand that's it's great that you
brought that up because he'she's definitely one of the good
ones out there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:22):
And but I brought it up because that's one of the few
well-known trainers here inGeorgia that actually like try
to blow out spots when they needthem in a popular.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:31):
KD with NOC firearms, you know, he's very
good.
Yep.
Um Kim with Provectus, he's herein Georgia, he's great.
Um, you know, so Ken is great,KD is great.
Uh, since we're trapping, CarrieSloan is great, she does some
training uh with ladies.
Yeah.
Look up Carrie Sloan, yeah.
Stilettos and shotguns, she'sgood.
Um, there's lots of people herethat do really wonderful work.

(01:00:54):
Go check out.
We're lucky to have a reallygood uh you know, group of
people in Georgia for thatpurpose.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:00):
I'll I'll shout out my boy Chris from First Line
Defense.org.
He's a very good trainer.
He works for a major uh company.
Check it out.
That'll be 20%, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:11):
Very we expect we want our checks.
I want to check now.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:15):
No, I dude, but I say that because Chris is a good
dude, man, and he is uh he is anabsolute unit, dude.
Like he he wrestles with us, hedoes jujitsu, he's a firearms,
uh, a professional firearmstrainer in the industry.
Thank you.
Um, but he's just an absoluteunit, dude.
He's like 6'4, just yeah, goodgod, man.
Like he he hit me with a doubleleg one time, a double leg

(01:01:37):
takedown, and he like sent meinto outer space, man.
I was like, holy crap! I waslike crap like sending you
flying, man.
But uh good dude, good dude.
Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:47):
All right.
Well, remind me not to run intoa 6'4 trainer.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:50):
Yeah, man.
And it's like just like a V,dude.
I was like, oh my god, like Idrew him and I was like, God,
why?
People are just like that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:58):
Well, uh, I think this pretty much puts the uh
idea to bet.
I mean, you you can do a lot ofthings to further your training
goals without spending a lot ofmoney or very little money.
So hopefully you took somethingaway from today's podcast.
And I really appreciate you guysum who support us on a regular
basis.
We have a very you knowdedicated group of viewers that

(01:02:18):
that enjoy what we do, and Ireally appreciate all of you who
download the show uh in podcastform.
Make sure you leave us a greatrating.
It helps us uh you know show upfurther in the podcast results.
Also, if you're here on YouTube,make sure you drop a like.
And look, if you're feelinggenerous and you want to buy us
a cup of coffee, you can give usa super thanks up uh above.
If you're signed into YouTubeRed, you can always drop a super

(01:02:40):
thanks and send five bucks ourway or whatever you feel like
giving us.
And that goes towards the goodof the group as well, towards
lighting and cameras and gadgetsand coffee and all the things
that we need to keep moving.
Okay, but um hey, there's lotsof ways you can support us.
Make sure you leave a commentdown below if you're especially
if you're watching here onYouTube.
Um, drop a comment down below.

(01:03:00):
Let us know what you do to trainon the cheap.
Are there some things that weleft out?
Are there some things that youdo that maybe your fellow
viewers need to know?
Please let us know.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Um, so thank you all so verymuch for watching today.
There's many more podcasts onthe way, tons of great YouTube
videos on the way.
And I hope everybody has a greatweek.
Thanks so much for tuning in.

(01:03:21):
And Matt, uh, anything else forus today?

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:23):
No, man.
Train hard.
I'm kidding.
I'm gonna get sued.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:28):
Okay.
Y'all have a good day.
Many more on the way.
We'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:32):
Bye, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:34):
Thanks for listening to Life Liberty and Pursuit.
If you enjoyed the show, be sureto subscribe on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, and anywhere elsepodcasts are found.
Be sure to leave us a five starreview.
We'd really appreciate that.
You can support us over onBallistic Inc.
by picking yourself up somemerch.
And remember, guys, dangerousfreedom.
Have a good one.