October 16, 2025 • 31 mins
The temperature is rising, and not just in the headlines. We’re feeling the squeeze of creeping authoritarian habits—self-censorship, apathy, and the slow erosion of institutions we once took for granted—so we decided to do something about it. Using Timothy Snyder’s “On Tyranny” as our guide, we break down the clearest warning signs and turn them into practical, human-scale actions that anyone can take today.
We start with anticipatory obedience and why “checking out” quietly teaches power what it can get away with. From there, we get concrete about defending institutions: courts, universities, local newspapers, unions. When politics and funding pressures force mission drift, talent leaves and public trust thins. We also talk about the fight over civic symbols, like the American flag, and how reclaiming shared meaning beats surrendering the public square to spectacle. Along the way we confront the danger of paramilitary blurring—when unofficial armed groups, law enforcement, and loyalty to a leader begin to overlap—and why that threatens lawful dissent.
Truth sits at the center of it all. We make the case for slow information: long-form reading, verified sources, and supporting investigative journalism that keeps facts anchored. Then we pivot to the smallest big moves—eye contact with a stranger, a kind question in the produce aisle, simple conversations that remind us we’re neighbors before we’re rivals. A recent moment of raw solidarity, strangers lifting a crashed helicopter to save a life, becomes our proof that community is still our default setting. We close with direct steps: call your representatives to oppose militarization of cities, support local reporting, teach kids to vet claims, and be the second mover who normalizes courage.
If this resonates, follow the show, share this episode with a friend who needs fuel for action, and leave a quick review to help others find it. Your voice keeps this community strong.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to Life on 10.
Hello, friends.
Hello, family.
Hello, world.
It is Angela and Vanessa.
How is everybody doing outthere?
SPEAKER_00 (00:17):
I think we are all doing varying shades of, I don't
know.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Like that.
Yeah.
But we are doing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
We're we're moving around.
We're we're walking.
We're waking up.
We're going to work and schooland we're surviving.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah.
I think survival mode.
Maybe that's what we're we'rein.
I don't want to speak toeverybody because obviously some
people may not be impacted.
Um I like to think.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Everybody is impacted.
Oh, really?
Everybody's impacted.
Okay.
Right?
It's degrees of that impact.
It's degrees and anunderstanding of what they're
what is it has been impacted.
Because some people don't, yourrights have been taken away from
you, whether you're aware of itor not.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
100%.
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
So I think that's one thing that we have to
understand is like there arepeople out there that are just
not aware that they have beenimpacted.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Yeah.
They've been assaulted.
They've exactly.
They don't even know they'vebeen assaulted.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
They don't know it.
And and or they're embracing it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:21):
One of, or they're in denial.
Yeah.
One of the things that um we'rewell, we're wait, let me back
up.
Today we are going to talk aboutthis wonderful book that someone
recommended to me because I'm afighter.
I was born that way.
And I and I realize thateverybody's not like me.
Yeah.
(01:41):
And um that's something thatI've I had to like work to
understand, if that makes anysense.
Because it's like if you're youhave this personality, these
characteristics, and and you,it's like who you are, it's your
very essence.
It's hard when you see otherpeople who put their head down
(02:06):
when other people are suffering.
Yeah.
So like that drives me in.
I allow that to I allow that toreally get to me.
And so I'm working on myself inthis process, in this journey,
on this journey that we're allon to not judge those people.
I try not to judge.
I really do.
(02:27):
I try to be curious versus beingjudgmental.
And that's something I reallyhave to work on because I am a
fighter.
And when I see someone beingmistreated, and this is beyond
mistreatment, that's what'sgoing on right now.
Obviously, you already know whatwe're talking about, audience.
Um, I just like struggle tounderstand that.
(02:49):
And my son is just like me.
He is like, oh, you know, it'sso my husband is like, hmm.
So you just kind of imagineJalen and I are like overboiling
always on beyond 10.
Yeah.
And and then there's this calmkind of thing.
(03:10):
Um, but anyway, so what Idecided to do because I needed
help to um just kind of processall the many different things
that's going on.
And so someone recommended thisbook to me because again, as a
fighter, I want to take action.
I cannot possibly sit down andjust wish something would happen
(03:32):
or people would gain theirsanity and stop um, you know,
doing all the horrible thingsthat are being done.
So the book is called Um OnTyranny, right?
20.
It's um by Timothy Snyder andhis 20 lessons on tyranny.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
And I thought I'm just I'm sorry, this is an audio
check, folks.
I need Angela to talk moredirectly into the microphone
because I'm hearing too muchecho.
Okay, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
I'm so I'm so excited.
It's okay.
Um, so I thought what we woulddo, is that better?
Yes.
I'll calm down.
I was I had a lot of hand ummotion.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
I was very animated.
Um we're we're remember, we arenot professional podcasters, so
you always have to forgive us,even though we've done like a
million episodes, it feels like.
I know, but sometimes it's can'tbe it can't be animated.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Okay.
So what I thought we would do isgo through the 20 steps that
lead a country to tyranny andsee exactly where we are in that
process.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
We're gonna take an inventory on successful moves
towards tyranny.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
So we're we're basically we're taking a
temperature, we're we're we'remeasuring how far are we or how
close are we toward to tyranny?
Okay.
So Mr.
Snyder, Timothy Snyder says thefirst one, first step is do not
(05:03):
obey in advance.
Number one, okay, I love that.
What does he mean by that?
Well, he says most of the powerof authoritarianism is freely
given.
In times like these, individualsthink ahead about what a more
repressive government will wantand then offer themselves
(05:24):
without being asked.
A citizen who adapts in this wayis teaching power what it can
do.
I think though that I need anexample.
Anticipatory obedience is apolitical tragedy.
SPEAKER_00 (05:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Okay, I'll give you an example.
That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
Let's let's get an example of somebody doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
So the last sentence a citizen who adapts in this way
is teaching power what it cando.
I can think of friends um aroundme who are saying things like,
oh, this is too much.
(06:07):
I can't watch it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
So checking out checking out.
Exactly.
And and it's like the wholeostrich head down or turtle in
the shell, whatever you want tosay, just checking out.
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Yeah.
unknown (06:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Totally doing all the things as if none of this is
happening, as if mass men arenot walking the streets of
different states pulling peopleum away from their children.
Um if our cities are not beingmilitarized.
(06:44):
It's like, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
So to and and not just not ever because I can
think of quite a few citiesacross the country that are much
more violent than Oregon.
Right?
Like, so when when when theystart with things like LA,
Chicago, if you're somebody whois trying, is really struggling
(07:08):
with not making this a partisanthing, you could be like, Well,
Chicago and LA, those are reallydangerous cities.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
Well, blue states, though, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
But yeah, but like you, I could see somebody doing
that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:20):
When you go to Portland, Oregon.
I mean, I I I just I can't.
I just it is so comical.
It is, it is, it's I mean, it'snot funny.
But it's like I it literally, Ifeel like I'm watching a
Saturday night live skit.
Uh right, like that's what Ifeel when I watch it.
(07:43):
That's what I feel like.
I'm like, this is so surreal.
Like, this is not real.
Portland, Oregon?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
So that is a perfect example.
Exactly.
Number two, he says, defendinstitutions.
It is institutions that help usto preserve decency.
They need our help as well.
Uh, do not speak of ourinstitutions unless you make
them yours by by acting on theirbehalf.
(08:12):
Institutions do not protectthemselves, they fall one after
the other unless each isdefended from the beginning.
So choose an institution youcare about, a court, a
newspaper, a law firm, a laborunion, a university side.
Yes.
(08:33):
So we've already seen this.
Yeah.
This has already happened.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Harvard.
I mean, there are someuniversities that capitulated,
but also fighting back.
You know, if Harvard has a greatdeal of funds, which why would
they capitulate anyway?
SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
Their endowment is insane.
SPEAKER_00 (08:51):
It's insane.
Um, but there are so manyinstitutions across the country
that are absolutely relying upongovernment funding in order to
do day-to-day operations.
Um, and they are folding orchanging their core values on
what they do, services theyprovide, a variety of things.
(09:13):
And um they have to because onceagain, they're beholden to
government funding.
Um, and while some people cansay, uh, you know, you can you
can have a variety of opinions.
I will say all those people, thetalent that we're losing at all
those institutions, they're notjust sitting in their empty labs
(09:37):
waiting for a new job.
Folks, they're going.
They're going to China, they'regoing to Germany, they're going
to other countries to make themmore prosperous, to make their
scientific discoveries occurfaster, to leave America behind.
All of these amazing minds arenot just sitting waiting for
(09:59):
their funding to come back.
They're going to go where thefunding is, and that is outside
of the United States of America.
How does a country who was oncelauded as just the epitome of
science and growth and discoverylosing some of our best minds
because we don't want to fundthem for political purposes?
(10:20):
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
Yes.
Um, someone was saying to me theother day, what is happening is
going to take years or decadesto recover.
To recover from.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so number four, um, I'm notgoing to read them all.
I'm going to read the ones thatI feel are most important.
I highly recommend the bookthough.
(10:42):
Um, number four is takeresponsibility for the face of
the world.
What does he mean?
The symbols of today enable thereality of tomorrow.
Notice the swastikas and theother signs of hate.
Do not look away and do not getused to them.
Move them yourself and set anexample for others to do so.
SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
You know what's been happening recently that I
actually love.
Um, the American flag, in myopinion, has kind of been
commandeered by, and and you canI've asked people from uh that
are conservatives, and I'veasked people on that are
liberal.
I've asked soldiers, I've askedairmen, I have asked people who
(11:27):
are actively fighting for ourcountry right now.
Um, they do not appreciate thefact that the American flag has
been literally taken and shownas a symbol of hate, not as a
symbol of freedom, which it hadalways been intended, right?
But I will say that some of thistrolling that is occurring by
Governor Newsom, where I sawwhere there was a picture of a
(11:50):
truck that had all the things.
Oh, yeah.
It was a massive four-wheeldrive, dually truck, covered in
massive, huge American flags andGovernor Newsom flags.
Like it, and I'm like, that'show you do it.
Like, that's how you take itback, right?
You take something that someonehas commandeered and said, no,
this is no, it's not.
The American flag is foreverybody.
The American flag should be foreveryone.
(12:12):
So we need to take it back.
It can't just mean hate.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
I'll be very honest.
Um, when I see an American flaghanging um in someone's front
yard, I instantly get like, ugh.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
It doesn't have the same it no, that's what I'm
saying.
Think back to 20 years ago.
When you would see an Americanflag in a yard, you'd you'd I
would I would be filled withpride.
Yes.
Like I said, it has beencommandeered.
SPEAKER_01 (12:44):
So I what for what he's saying is take that back.
Take it back.
Yeah, take that back.
SPEAKER_00 (12:48):
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And and absolutely agree.
Look away from all the not lookaway, but you need to uh uh
address the typical or the knownsymbols of hatred that have been
well recognized through history.
Um we can't allow them topropagate.
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Here is another one I think isimportant.
Be wary of parliamentaries.
When the men with guns who havealways claimed to be against a
system start wearing uniformsand marching with torches and
pictures of a leader, the end isnear.
When the pro-leaderparliamentary and the official
(13:31):
police and military intermingle,the end has come.
I know exactly.
That we're living that.
We are living that.
So for me, that's ice.
I'm gonna read it again.
(13:51):
When the men with guns who havealways claimed to be against the
system start wearing uniformsand marching with torches and
pictures of a leader, the end isnear.
When the pro-leaderparliamentary and the official
police and military intermingle,the end has come.
(14:13):
All of that is going on rightnow in this present moment.
You have ICE, you have theNational Guard.
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
And if and if he is somehow able to invoke the
Insurrection Act, you will havethe military, United States
military able to act on Americansoil.
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (14:35):
Because right now it's just limited to National
Guard.
He cannot use military againstits own citizens.
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
Right.
But the thought, the thought,and you're right, and the
thought is um, some is that allthis is designed to agitate the
people to push them towards aplace where they fight back.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Yeah.
And then he'll, oh now, look atwhat I've he.
Of course, he's not gonna say,look at the shit show I've
created that I now have to goand clean up.
It's like badgering a bully orbadgering a child until they've
lost their mind and then theyfight back, and then saying,
(15:18):
nope, now now you're grounded.
Now you don't get your freedombecause you acted like that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
So he says, to to that to your point, he says most
governments, most of the time,seek to monopolize violence.
If only the government canlegitimately use force, and this
use is constrained by law, thenthe forms of politics that we
take for granted becomepossible.
It is impossible to carry outdemocratic elections, try cases
(15:45):
at court, design and enforcelaws, or indeed manage any of
the other quiet business ofgovernment.
So I feel like that's alreadyhere.
I I feel I'm going through achecklist.
Check.
(16:06):
Okay.
Stand out.
Someone has to.
It is easy to follow along.
It can feel strange to do or saysomething different, but without
that unease, there is nofreedom.
Remember Rosa Parks.
The moment you set an example,the spell of the status quo is
(16:26):
broken and others will follow.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Yeah, I'm I mean, to so I I I was in some classes
today and someone mentioned avideo where, and I think a lot
of people have seen it, wheresomebody goes out in the middle
of like a grassy area and juststarts dancing wild and crazy,
and everyone just stares atthem.
(16:53):
And then the second person goesout there and starts dancing
wild and crazy.
And as soon as that secondperson goes out there, the rest
follow.
Yes.
Right.
And it's like, so the the firstperson isn't necessarily the
leader.
The leader is the one who wasthe second.
The second person out there wasthe one that everybody followed.
(17:14):
So the leader was the secondperson.
So a lot of times we asAmericans, or it's just general,
we watch the people like you,Angela.
I will call you the first personthat's out there, right?
Because you're the one, like yousaid, you've always been a
fighter.
You've always been the one.
You and Jalen, you're, you know,you guys are always the ones
that are out there first.
(17:35):
We need the people who are gonnabe the next out there so that we
can have everybody follow.
So it's kind of like that callof be that second person, be the
person that shows everybodyelse, hey, it's okay to do this.
Right.
And like you said, noteverybody's gonna feel, and
(17:55):
we've mentioned this before inprevious podcasts, not
everybody's gonna feelcomfortable doing protests or
various things for a variety ofreasons.
What can we do?
What can we do?
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah, yeah.
What is yours to do?
I I feel like, you know, at theend of the podcast, that was
going to be my question.
Like, what what can you do?
Like, what is yours to do?
Because this is not this isdifferent from anything I have
ever experienced in my life.
(18:27):
Anything people older than meare saying, I have never in my
life thought so it's differentand it's not going to just go
away.
Uh let me let me do another one.
Yeah, believe in truth.
(18:48):
To abandon facts is to abandonfreedom.
If nothing is true, then no onecan criticize power because
there is no basis upon which todo so.
If nothing is true, then all isspectacle.
The biggest wallet pays for themost blinding lights.
SPEAKER_00 (19:08):
I have one word.
Right?
I mean, I I I can there's beenso much, you know, stuff, and
we've talked about it, guys, onthe show.
We've talked about it and we'vediscussed all the ways in which
various vaccines or other stuff.
But watching that pressconference where they marched
(19:34):
people out there, not people,they marched some of the some of
the so-called leaders of healthout there to absolutely what I'm
going to say, attack and ravagewomen, because that's what that
was.
That was mom, this is anotherway in which you made a mistake.
(19:58):
You are because the men aren'tresponsible for it.
It's the women who were pregnantwho had a headache, who had
joint pain.
Just tough it out.
Just tough it out, who had afever, who had whatever, and
they took Tylenol.
Rightly so.
Because you know what?
A mom super stressed with aheadache can get her blood
(20:18):
pressure up, hurt the baby.
A mom super in in with reallyhigh fevers from getting the flu
can hurt the baby.
There are so many things wherethe mother's health is directly
linked to the human beinggrowing inside of her.
So if you want, if you careabout the baby, you've got to
(20:40):
also care about the mom.
And the mom's health and comfortand stress levels and fevers and
all these things actually play apart.
And yes, would the best thing inthe world be for anybody to
never, ever, ever take anychemical substance in their
whole life?
Of course, yes, all natural,everything is it would be just
the best, but that's not how theworld works.
(21:01):
No, and we have medications thatwe have created out of our
amazing genius, wherever youwant to say it came from, right,
that helps humankind fightcancer.
unknown (21:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
Kill bacteria that have been killing and maiming
people for years.
Right.
Think of all the amazing, youwant to call you want to call
something a miracle.
I'm gonna call medicine the wayin which God, if you believe in
God, is acting through humanhands.
I definitely medicine absolutelyis a perfect example.
I definitely agree.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
Right.
I did not um see when I when Isaw that, um, I did not
immediately go to um what you'resaying.
Like that women that was likefirst thing that I went to.
So interesting.
Another assault.
When I text you and you saidthat, then I was like, wow.
SPEAKER_00 (21:50):
Yeah, I had that aha.
As if women didn't feel badenough about all the things that
they might have done wrong intheir pregnancy, and especially
a woman who has a child withautism.
Yes.
And you know what?
There are plenty of people outthere with autism living amazing
lives, wonderful lives.
And, you know, so this wholeconcept of like, if you have
(22:11):
autism, all is lost.
That is garbage.
Right.
The reason why there's moreautism is because we're doing a
really good job at identifyingpeople so that they can get the
resources that they need to livesuccessful and happy and
productive lives.
Oh my gosh, I just had um aflashback.
Remember we had a guest on?
(22:32):
We did.
My my good friend Dina.
Yes, and she talked about herwonderful son.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Yeah.
We should circle back with her.
It's we totally can.
We totally can't see doing.
Yeah.
Um, this is this one's superimportant to me.
How much we're how are we doing?
We got a another couple minutes.
Okay.
Yeah.
Investigate.
Yes.
Number 11.
Figure things out on your own.
Spend more time with longarticles, subsidize
(22:59):
investigative journalism bysubscribing to print media.
Realize that some of what is onthe internet is there to harm
you.
Learn about sites thatinvestigate propaganda
campaigns, some of which comefrom abroad.
But anyway, take responsibility,is what he's saying.
Take responsibility for what youcommunicate to others as well.
(23:21):
Yeah.
Take responsibility to whatyou're reading.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
And teach your children how to do the same.
Critical thinking.
Critical thinking.
Independent thought.
SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
Yep.
I feel like there are manydifferent things that led us to
where we are right now in thispresent time.
Two of those things is the lackof critical thinking and
independent thought.
SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
Yep.
And group.
And in my opinion, social media.
SPEAKER_01 (23:50):
Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
This is a direct reflection of the rapid fire
spread of information that iswholly insubstantiated,
incorrect, and the the expansivenature of the opinion sphere,
which you know, Angela and I area part of, folks, right?
We are giving you our opinion,right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
We are we are, and you know what?
Our opinion is good and kind andloving and compassionate.
It is.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
It however is still exactly it is still our opinion.
And so there are there becauseof social media and podcasting
and all the various things,there are so many ways for
people to get out there and tellothers what they think and and
what they think is important.
And we are not telling you tolisten to what we say blindly.
No, we just like Angela said,anything that we ever say,
(24:46):
please go and look it up and doa fact check and find credible
resources and and verify what wesay.
There it and and and the reasonwhy we have zero problem saying
that is because we've alreadydone that.
Yes.
So we know what you're gonnafind.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
And so I I love this.
This sums that that um point up.
He says it's your ability todiscern facts that makes you an
individual.
Yep.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
Okay, let's so go ahead.
I we we've gotta we've gottabutton this all up with, you
know, obviously a lot of this isanxiety provoking, saddening,
scary, right?
All the things.
So what can we do about it?
Because that's where we're atnow.
We got we gotta we gotta letpeople know what we can do about
(25:36):
it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:36):
This one is so I feel like this is one mo one
thing that you can do, and Ifeel like this is powerful, and
and it may not sound like itwhen I say it, but it is.
So it's a beginning because wecan do many different things,
but this is a beginning.
Make eye contact and small talk.
Why is that powerful?
(25:57):
Why could that be the beginningof healing this?
SPEAKER_00 (26:05):
Because you see other people as people and not
as others.
Yes, you connect with themone-on-one.
Yes.
If we walked around, if youwalked into a grocery store and
you had absolutely no idea whatanybody's political opinion was,
and you stood and you looked ata banana and you started picking
(26:26):
and you said, Sir, do you thinkthis bunch of bananas is ripe?
And I don't know, what do youthink?
You could talk for a while andhave a very nice conversation
without knowing anybody's apolitical opinion or whatever,
and you could be kind andcordial.
We can do that every day, yes,all day.
SPEAKER_01 (26:41):
Yeah.
So to me, that is that's not asuperpower, but that could be
our greatest um not weapon,because I don't want to call it
a weapon, but our greatestresponse to this is the
beginning of reconnecting witheach other, seeing each other um
(27:03):
as valuable people who deserverespect and deserve a place in
this world.
Yes, yeah, because we all, nomatter who we are, no matter
race, culture, creed, sexualorientation, we're human beings
and human beings.
The number one thing we want isto know that we have value.
(27:26):
So we all seek to be seen,heard, valued.
We've disconnected.
We have we have unplugged fromeach other.
Yeah, and while we've done that,we've created this gigantic gap
that really in truth does notexist.
(27:49):
We are all interconnected, yeah.
We need to be reminded of thatconstantly, especially during
this time.
Again, many reasons why we arein the state that we are in.
One of the contributing reasonsis that we feel that we are
disconnected from each other,that there's this great, great,
(28:11):
big difference between me and myneighbor and the other person.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
One of the most beautiful examples of that, just
recently, local to Angela and Iwas a couple of days ago, there
was a helicopter crash rightonto one of our freeways.
And one of the passengers in theair in the helicopter was pinned
underneath the helicopter.
And watching the videos from thedash cam of cars that were in
(28:38):
the area watched it crash.
People instantly, withouthesitation for life, limb,
jumped out of their cars and ranover to that site, not knowing
if it was going to catch onfire, explode.
No, no concern to the danger,only thinking about helping
(29:03):
those people who they didn'tknow, that could have voted with
them, against them, who couldhave hated them, who could have
loved them.
They didn't know and they didn'tcare.
And they ran and I watched 15people line up against that
helicopter and lift it up intothe air so that the first
responders could pull the personout from underneath it.
(29:25):
And that imagery that's whatmade me go, like, that is what
we are about, people.
Yes, that, and like you said,the divide is not there that
they want us to feel that way.
It's not there.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Yeah, I feel like that was the universe giving us,
not just Californian, becausethey that was shown all over the
the United States, the sign thatthere's still hope, yeah,
reminding us of our true nature.
Exactly.
So, all right, we're gonna wrapit up.
Um Lean hard into that.
(30:01):
Lean hard into beingcompassionate, practicing
empathy, trying to see the otherperson on the other side,
remembering it.
They hurt just like you.
They are in fear just like you.
Let's let's let's do this thingtogether.
That's all I can say.
This is this is the only waywe're going to survive this if
(30:25):
we come together.
SPEAKER_00 (30:27):
And contact your representatives and tell them
that we do not want military inour cities.
They don't belong.
There is no war.
Nothing is going on.
There is civil disobedience,which is what this country was
founded on.
Let freedom ring, let us haveour rights that were given to us
(30:49):
in our U.S.
Constitution.
Ask, not ask, demand that theydo their jobs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
And we will have the name of the book and the author
on the um description of thepodcast.
Okay, everyone, live your lifeon 10, your 10.
Bye bye.
Hello and welcome to Life on 10.
Hello, friends.
Hello, family.
Hello, world.
It is Angela and Vanessa.
How is everybody doing outthere?
SPEAKER_00 (00:17):
I think we are all doing varying shades of, I don't
know.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Like that.
Yeah.
But we are doing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
We're we're moving around.
We're we're walking.
We're waking up.
We're going to work and schooland we're surviving.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah.
I think survival mode.
Maybe that's what we're we'rein.
I don't want to speak toeverybody because obviously some
people may not be impacted.
Um I like to think.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Everybody is impacted.
Oh, really?
Everybody's impacted.
Okay.
Right?
It's degrees of that impact.
It's degrees and anunderstanding of what they're
what is it has been impacted.
Because some people don't, yourrights have been taken away from
you, whether you're aware of itor not.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
100%.
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
So I think that's one thing that we have to
understand is like there arepeople out there that are just
not aware that they have beenimpacted.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Yeah.
They've been assaulted.
They've exactly.
They don't even know they'vebeen assaulted.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
They don't know it.
And and or they're embracing it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:21):
One of, or they're in denial.
Yeah.
One of the things that um we'rewell, we're wait, let me back
up.
Today we are going to talk aboutthis wonderful book that someone
recommended to me because I'm afighter.
I was born that way.
And I and I realize thateverybody's not like me.
Yeah.
(01:41):
And um that's something thatI've I had to like work to
understand, if that makes anysense.
Because it's like if you're youhave this personality, these
characteristics, and and you,it's like who you are, it's your
very essence.
It's hard when you see otherpeople who put their head down
(02:06):
when other people are suffering.
Yeah.
So like that drives me in.
I allow that to I allow that toreally get to me.
And so I'm working on myself inthis process, in this journey,
on this journey that we're allon to not judge those people.
I try not to judge.
I really do.
(02:27):
I try to be curious versus beingjudgmental.
And that's something I reallyhave to work on because I am a
fighter.
And when I see someone beingmistreated, and this is beyond
mistreatment, that's what'sgoing on right now.
Obviously, you already know whatwe're talking about, audience.
Um, I just like struggle tounderstand that.
(02:49):
And my son is just like me.
He is like, oh, you know, it'sso my husband is like, hmm.
So you just kind of imagineJalen and I are like overboiling
always on beyond 10.
Yeah.
And and then there's this calmkind of thing.
(03:10):
Um, but anyway, so what Idecided to do because I needed
help to um just kind of processall the many different things
that's going on.
And so someone recommended thisbook to me because again, as a
fighter, I want to take action.
I cannot possibly sit down andjust wish something would happen
(03:32):
or people would gain theirsanity and stop um, you know,
doing all the horrible thingsthat are being done.
So the book is called Um OnTyranny, right?
20.
It's um by Timothy Snyder andhis 20 lessons on tyranny.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
And I thought I'm just I'm sorry, this is an audio
check, folks.
I need Angela to talk moredirectly into the microphone
because I'm hearing too muchecho.
Okay, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
I'm so I'm so excited.
It's okay.
Um, so I thought what we woulddo, is that better?
Yes.
I'll calm down.
I was I had a lot of hand ummotion.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
I was very animated.
Um we're we're remember, we arenot professional podcasters, so
you always have to forgive us,even though we've done like a
million episodes, it feels like.
I know, but sometimes it's can'tbe it can't be animated.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Okay.
So what I thought we would do isgo through the 20 steps that
lead a country to tyranny andsee exactly where we are in that
process.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
We're gonna take an inventory on successful moves
towards tyranny.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
So we're we're basically we're taking a
temperature, we're we're we'remeasuring how far are we or how
close are we toward to tyranny?
Okay.
So Mr.
Snyder, Timothy Snyder says thefirst one, first step is do not
(05:03):
obey in advance.
Number one, okay, I love that.
What does he mean by that?
Well, he says most of the powerof authoritarianism is freely
given.
In times like these, individualsthink ahead about what a more
repressive government will wantand then offer themselves
(05:24):
without being asked.
A citizen who adapts in this wayis teaching power what it can
do.
I think though that I need anexample.
Anticipatory obedience is apolitical tragedy.
SPEAKER_00 (05:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Okay, I'll give you an example.
That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
Let's let's get an example of somebody doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
So the last sentence a citizen who adapts in this way
is teaching power what it cando.
I can think of friends um aroundme who are saying things like,
oh, this is too much.
(06:07):
I can't watch it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
So checking out checking out.
Exactly.
And and it's like the wholeostrich head down or turtle in
the shell, whatever you want tosay, just checking out.
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Yeah.
unknown (06:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Totally doing all the things as if none of this is
happening, as if mass men arenot walking the streets of
different states pulling peopleum away from their children.
Um if our cities are not beingmilitarized.
(06:44):
It's like, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
So to and and not just not ever because I can
think of quite a few citiesacross the country that are much
more violent than Oregon.
Right?
Like, so when when when theystart with things like LA,
Chicago, if you're somebody whois trying, is really struggling
(07:08):
with not making this a partisanthing, you could be like, Well,
Chicago and LA, those are reallydangerous cities.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
Well, blue states, though, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
But yeah, but like you, I could see somebody doing
that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:20):
When you go to Portland, Oregon.
I mean, I I I just I can't.
I just it is so comical.
It is, it is, it's I mean, it'snot funny.
But it's like I it literally, Ifeel like I'm watching a
Saturday night live skit.
Uh right, like that's what Ifeel when I watch it.
(07:43):
That's what I feel like.
I'm like, this is so surreal.
Like, this is not real.
Portland, Oregon?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
So that is a perfect example.
Exactly.
Number two, he says, defendinstitutions.
It is institutions that help usto preserve decency.
They need our help as well.
Uh, do not speak of ourinstitutions unless you make
them yours by by acting on theirbehalf.
(08:12):
Institutions do not protectthemselves, they fall one after
the other unless each isdefended from the beginning.
So choose an institution youcare about, a court, a
newspaper, a law firm, a laborunion, a university side.
Yes.
(08:33):
So we've already seen this.
Yeah.
This has already happened.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Harvard.
I mean, there are someuniversities that capitulated,
but also fighting back.
You know, if Harvard has a greatdeal of funds, which why would
they capitulate anyway?
SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
Their endowment is insane.
SPEAKER_00 (08:51):
It's insane.
Um, but there are so manyinstitutions across the country
that are absolutely relying upongovernment funding in order to
do day-to-day operations.
Um, and they are folding orchanging their core values on
what they do, services theyprovide, a variety of things.
(09:13):
And um they have to because onceagain, they're beholden to
government funding.
Um, and while some people cansay, uh, you know, you can you
can have a variety of opinions.
I will say all those people, thetalent that we're losing at all
those institutions, they're notjust sitting in their empty labs
(09:37):
waiting for a new job.
Folks, they're going.
They're going to China, they'regoing to Germany, they're going
to other countries to make themmore prosperous, to make their
scientific discoveries occurfaster, to leave America behind.
All of these amazing minds arenot just sitting waiting for
(09:59):
their funding to come back.
They're going to go where thefunding is, and that is outside
of the United States of America.
How does a country who was oncelauded as just the epitome of
science and growth and discoverylosing some of our best minds
because we don't want to fundthem for political purposes?
(10:20):
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
Yes.
Um, someone was saying to me theother day, what is happening is
going to take years or decadesto recover.
To recover from.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so number four, um, I'm notgoing to read them all.
I'm going to read the ones thatI feel are most important.
I highly recommend the bookthough.
(10:42):
Um, number four is takeresponsibility for the face of
the world.
What does he mean?
The symbols of today enable thereality of tomorrow.
Notice the swastikas and theother signs of hate.
Do not look away and do not getused to them.
Move them yourself and set anexample for others to do so.
SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
You know what's been happening recently that I
actually love.
Um, the American flag, in myopinion, has kind of been
commandeered by, and and you canI've asked people from uh that
are conservatives, and I'veasked people on that are
liberal.
I've asked soldiers, I've askedairmen, I have asked people who
(11:27):
are actively fighting for ourcountry right now.
Um, they do not appreciate thefact that the American flag has
been literally taken and shownas a symbol of hate, not as a
symbol of freedom, which it hadalways been intended, right?
But I will say that some of thistrolling that is occurring by
Governor Newsom, where I sawwhere there was a picture of a
(11:50):
truck that had all the things.
Oh, yeah.
It was a massive four-wheeldrive, dually truck, covered in
massive, huge American flags andGovernor Newsom flags.
Like it, and I'm like, that'show you do it.
Like, that's how you take itback, right?
You take something that someonehas commandeered and said, no,
this is no, it's not.
The American flag is foreverybody.
The American flag should be foreveryone.
(12:12):
So we need to take it back.
It can't just mean hate.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
I'll be very honest.
Um, when I see an American flaghanging um in someone's front
yard, I instantly get like, ugh.
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
It doesn't have the same it no, that's what I'm
saying.
Think back to 20 years ago.
When you would see an Americanflag in a yard, you'd you'd I
would I would be filled withpride.
Yes.
Like I said, it has beencommandeered.
SPEAKER_01 (12:44):
So I what for what he's saying is take that back.
Take it back.
Yeah, take that back.
SPEAKER_00 (12:48):
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And and absolutely agree.
Look away from all the not lookaway, but you need to uh uh
address the typical or the knownsymbols of hatred that have been
well recognized through history.
Um we can't allow them topropagate.
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Here is another one I think isimportant.
Be wary of parliamentaries.
When the men with guns who havealways claimed to be against a
system start wearing uniformsand marching with torches and
pictures of a leader, the end isnear.
When the pro-leaderparliamentary and the official
(13:31):
police and military intermingle,the end has come.
I know exactly.
That we're living that.
We are living that.
So for me, that's ice.
I'm gonna read it again.
(13:51):
When the men with guns who havealways claimed to be against the
system start wearing uniformsand marching with torches and
pictures of a leader, the end isnear.
When the pro-leaderparliamentary and the official
police and military intermingle,the end has come.
(14:13):
All of that is going on rightnow in this present moment.
You have ICE, you have theNational Guard.
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
And if and if he is somehow able to invoke the
Insurrection Act, you will havethe military, United States
military able to act on Americansoil.
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (14:35):
Because right now it's just limited to National
Guard.
He cannot use military againstits own citizens.
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
Right.
But the thought, the thought,and you're right, and the
thought is um, some is that allthis is designed to agitate the
people to push them towards aplace where they fight back.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Yeah.
And then he'll, oh now, look atwhat I've he.
Of course, he's not gonna say,look at the shit show I've
created that I now have to goand clean up.
It's like badgering a bully orbadgering a child until they've
lost their mind and then theyfight back, and then saying,
(15:18):
nope, now now you're grounded.
Now you don't get your freedombecause you acted like that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
So he says, to to that to your point, he says most
governments, most of the time,seek to monopolize violence.
If only the government canlegitimately use force, and this
use is constrained by law, thenthe forms of politics that we
take for granted becomepossible.
It is impossible to carry outdemocratic elections, try cases
(15:45):
at court, design and enforcelaws, or indeed manage any of
the other quiet business ofgovernment.
So I feel like that's alreadyhere.
I I feel I'm going through achecklist.
Check.
(16:06):
Okay.
Stand out.
Someone has to.
It is easy to follow along.
It can feel strange to do or saysomething different, but without
that unease, there is nofreedom.
Remember Rosa Parks.
The moment you set an example,the spell of the status quo is
(16:26):
broken and others will follow.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Yeah, I'm I mean, to so I I I was in some classes
today and someone mentioned avideo where, and I think a lot
of people have seen it, wheresomebody goes out in the middle
of like a grassy area and juststarts dancing wild and crazy,
and everyone just stares atthem.
(16:53):
And then the second person goesout there and starts dancing
wild and crazy.
And as soon as that secondperson goes out there, the rest
follow.
Yes.
Right.
And it's like, so the the firstperson isn't necessarily the
leader.
The leader is the one who wasthe second.
The second person out there wasthe one that everybody followed.
(17:14):
So the leader was the secondperson.
So a lot of times we asAmericans, or it's just general,
we watch the people like you,Angela.
I will call you the first personthat's out there, right?
Because you're the one, like yousaid, you've always been a
fighter.
You've always been the one.
You and Jalen, you're, you know,you guys are always the ones
that are out there first.
(17:35):
We need the people who are gonnabe the next out there so that we
can have everybody follow.
So it's kind of like that callof be that second person, be the
person that shows everybodyelse, hey, it's okay to do this.
Right.
And like you said, noteverybody's gonna feel, and
(17:55):
we've mentioned this before inprevious podcasts, not
everybody's gonna feelcomfortable doing protests or
various things for a variety ofreasons.
What can we do?
What can we do?
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah, yeah.
What is yours to do?
I I feel like, you know, at theend of the podcast, that was
going to be my question.
Like, what what can you do?
Like, what is yours to do?
Because this is not this isdifferent from anything I have
ever experienced in my life.
(18:27):
Anything people older than meare saying, I have never in my
life thought so it's differentand it's not going to just go
away.
Uh let me let me do another one.
Yeah, believe in truth.
(18:48):
To abandon facts is to abandonfreedom.
If nothing is true, then no onecan criticize power because
there is no basis upon which todo so.
If nothing is true, then all isspectacle.
The biggest wallet pays for themost blinding lights.
SPEAKER_00 (19:08):
I have one word.
Right?
I mean, I I I can there's beenso much, you know, stuff, and
we've talked about it, guys, onthe show.
We've talked about it and we'vediscussed all the ways in which
various vaccines or other stuff.
But watching that pressconference where they marched
(19:34):
people out there, not people,they marched some of the some of
the so-called leaders of healthout there to absolutely what I'm
going to say, attack and ravagewomen, because that's what that
was.
That was mom, this is anotherway in which you made a mistake.
(19:58):
You are because the men aren'tresponsible for it.
It's the women who were pregnantwho had a headache, who had
joint pain.
Just tough it out.
Just tough it out, who had afever, who had whatever, and
they took Tylenol.
Rightly so.
Because you know what?
A mom super stressed with aheadache can get her blood
(20:18):
pressure up, hurt the baby.
A mom super in in with reallyhigh fevers from getting the flu
can hurt the baby.
There are so many things wherethe mother's health is directly
linked to the human beinggrowing inside of her.
So if you want, if you careabout the baby, you've got to
(20:40):
also care about the mom.
And the mom's health and comfortand stress levels and fevers and
all these things actually play apart.
And yes, would the best thing inthe world be for anybody to
never, ever, ever take anychemical substance in their
whole life?
Of course, yes, all natural,everything is it would be just
the best, but that's not how theworld works.
(21:01):
No, and we have medications thatwe have created out of our
amazing genius, wherever youwant to say it came from, right,
that helps humankind fightcancer.
unknown (21:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
Kill bacteria that have been killing and maiming
people for years.
Right.
Think of all the amazing, youwant to call you want to call
something a miracle.
I'm gonna call medicine the wayin which God, if you believe in
God, is acting through humanhands.
I definitely medicine absolutelyis a perfect example.
I definitely agree.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
Right.
I did not um see when I when Isaw that, um, I did not
immediately go to um what you'resaying.
Like that women that was likefirst thing that I went to.
So interesting.
Another assault.
When I text you and you saidthat, then I was like, wow.
SPEAKER_00 (21:50):
Yeah, I had that aha.
As if women didn't feel badenough about all the things that
they might have done wrong intheir pregnancy, and especially
a woman who has a child withautism.
Yes.
And you know what?
There are plenty of people outthere with autism living amazing
lives, wonderful lives.
And, you know, so this wholeconcept of like, if you have
(22:11):
autism, all is lost.
That is garbage.
Right.
The reason why there's moreautism is because we're doing a
really good job at identifyingpeople so that they can get the
resources that they need to livesuccessful and happy and
productive lives.
Oh my gosh, I just had um aflashback.
Remember we had a guest on?
(22:32):
We did.
My my good friend Dina.
Yes, and she talked about herwonderful son.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Yeah.
We should circle back with her.
It's we totally can.
We totally can't see doing.
Yeah.
Um, this is this one's superimportant to me.
How much we're how are we doing?
We got a another couple minutes.
Okay.
Yeah.
Investigate.
Yes.
Number 11.
Figure things out on your own.
Spend more time with longarticles, subsidize
(22:59):
investigative journalism bysubscribing to print media.
Realize that some of what is onthe internet is there to harm
you.
Learn about sites thatinvestigate propaganda
campaigns, some of which comefrom abroad.
But anyway, take responsibility,is what he's saying.
Take responsibility for what youcommunicate to others as well.
(23:21):
Yeah.
Take responsibility to whatyou're reading.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
And teach your children how to do the same.
Critical thinking.
Critical thinking.
Independent thought.
SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
Yep.
I feel like there are manydifferent things that led us to
where we are right now in thispresent time.
Two of those things is the lackof critical thinking and
independent thought.
SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
Yep.
And group.
And in my opinion, social media.
SPEAKER_01 (23:50):
Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
This is a direct reflection of the rapid fire
spread of information that iswholly insubstantiated,
incorrect, and the the expansivenature of the opinion sphere,
which you know, Angela and I area part of, folks, right?
We are giving you our opinion,right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
We are we are, and you know what?
Our opinion is good and kind andloving and compassionate.
It is.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
It however is still exactly it is still our opinion.
And so there are there becauseof social media and podcasting
and all the various things,there are so many ways for
people to get out there and tellothers what they think and and
what they think is important.
And we are not telling you tolisten to what we say blindly.
No, we just like Angela said,anything that we ever say,
(24:46):
please go and look it up and doa fact check and find credible
resources and and verify what wesay.
There it and and and the reasonwhy we have zero problem saying
that is because we've alreadydone that.
Yes.
So we know what you're gonnafind.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
And so I I love this.
This sums that that um point up.
He says it's your ability todiscern facts that makes you an
individual.
Yep.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
Okay, let's so go ahead.
I we we've gotta we've gottabutton this all up with, you
know, obviously a lot of this isanxiety provoking, saddening,
scary, right?
All the things.
So what can we do about it?
Because that's where we're atnow.
We got we gotta we gotta letpeople know what we can do about
(25:36):
it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:36):
This one is so I feel like this is one mo one
thing that you can do, and Ifeel like this is powerful, and
and it may not sound like itwhen I say it, but it is.
So it's a beginning because wecan do many different things,
but this is a beginning.
Make eye contact and small talk.
Why is that powerful?
(25:57):
Why could that be the beginningof healing this?
SPEAKER_00 (26:05):
Because you see other people as people and not
as others.
Yes, you connect with themone-on-one.
Yes.
If we walked around, if youwalked into a grocery store and
you had absolutely no idea whatanybody's political opinion was,
and you stood and you looked ata banana and you started picking
(26:26):
and you said, Sir, do you thinkthis bunch of bananas is ripe?
And I don't know, what do youthink?
You could talk for a while andhave a very nice conversation
without knowing anybody's apolitical opinion or whatever,
and you could be kind andcordial.
We can do that every day, yes,all day.
SPEAKER_01 (26:41):
Yeah.
So to me, that is that's not asuperpower, but that could be
our greatest um not weapon,because I don't want to call it
a weapon, but our greatestresponse to this is the
beginning of reconnecting witheach other, seeing each other um
(27:03):
as valuable people who deserverespect and deserve a place in
this world.
Yes, yeah, because we all, nomatter who we are, no matter
race, culture, creed, sexualorientation, we're human beings
and human beings.
The number one thing we want isto know that we have value.
(27:26):
So we all seek to be seen,heard, valued.
We've disconnected.
We have we have unplugged fromeach other.
Yeah, and while we've done that,we've created this gigantic gap
that really in truth does notexist.
(27:49):
We are all interconnected, yeah.
We need to be reminded of thatconstantly, especially during
this time.
Again, many reasons why we arein the state that we are in.
One of the contributing reasonsis that we feel that we are
disconnected from each other,that there's this great, great,
(28:11):
big difference between me and myneighbor and the other person.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
One of the most beautiful examples of that, just
recently, local to Angela and Iwas a couple of days ago, there
was a helicopter crash rightonto one of our freeways.
And one of the passengers in theair in the helicopter was pinned
underneath the helicopter.
And watching the videos from thedash cam of cars that were in
(28:38):
the area watched it crash.
People instantly, withouthesitation for life, limb,
jumped out of their cars and ranover to that site, not knowing
if it was going to catch onfire, explode.
No, no concern to the danger,only thinking about helping
(29:03):
those people who they didn'tknow, that could have voted with
them, against them, who couldhave hated them, who could have
loved them.
They didn't know and they didn'tcare.
And they ran and I watched 15people line up against that
helicopter and lift it up intothe air so that the first
responders could pull the personout from underneath it.
(29:25):
And that imagery that's whatmade me go, like, that is what
we are about, people.
Yes, that, and like you said,the divide is not there that
they want us to feel that way.
It's not there.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Yeah, I feel like that was the universe giving us,
not just Californian, becausethey that was shown all over the
the United States, the sign thatthere's still hope, yeah,
reminding us of our true nature.
Exactly.
So, all right, we're gonna wrapit up.
Um Lean hard into that.
(30:01):
Lean hard into beingcompassionate, practicing
empathy, trying to see the otherperson on the other side,
remembering it.
They hurt just like you.
They are in fear just like you.
Let's let's let's do this thingtogether.
That's all I can say.
This is this is the only waywe're going to survive this if
(30:25):
we come together.
SPEAKER_00 (30:27):
And contact your representatives and tell them
that we do not want military inour cities.
They don't belong.
There is no war.
Nothing is going on.
There is civil disobedience,which is what this country was
founded on.
Let freedom ring, let us haveour rights that were given to us
(30:49):
in our U.S.
Constitution.
Ask, not ask, demand that theydo their jobs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
And we will have the name of the book and the author
on the um description of thepodcast.
Okay, everyone, live your lifeon 10, your 10.
Bye bye.
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