The Joy of the Race: Pure Marathon Passion with Filip Latocha

Ever wondered if juggling multiple passions is a blessing or a curse? We sit down with Phillip Latocha to unravel the intertwined paths of running and personal growth. From childhood soccer fields to college tracks, Phillip discovered his enduring love for running, challenging both the mental and physical demands of endurance sports. We reflect on the delicate dance between athletic pursuits and life's existential questions, sharing stories of how fitness and computer science eventually took precedence over music in our lives.

Prepare to be inspired by the electrifying atmosphere of marathon running, where Phillip and I recount the thrill of races like the Chicago Marathon and the therapeutic release they provide. Whether navigating the complex world of running shoe technology or discussing the critical role of nutrition, we offer practical advice for every runner, from novices to veterans. The conversation takes a poignant turn with the remarkable story of Filip Latocha, who, despite living with paralysis, exemplifies the art of resilience and determination, urging listeners to chase their dreams without excuses.

Our discussion also delves into the transformative power of running during challenging times, such as the pandemic. We touch on the evolution of fitness technology, emphasizing the importance of heart rate monitoring in tracking progress. With a blend of personal anecdotes and expert insights, this episode is a celebration of running as a metaphor for life’s journey—embracing the struggles, savoring the triumphs, and finding joy along the way.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I, my dogs, we just trying to get by.
Just a couple of puns alltrying to get by.
Just a couple of teens alltrying to survive.
Live to the max, cause youdon't live it twice.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Couple green thumbs all welcome back to another
episode of life, to the Max.
I'm your host, the Quadfather,aka Max Millie Grose.
Today we're going to dive intothe running world, the people

(00:53):
who are running around and takeit very seriously marathon
runners, whether you're asprinter, that's what we're
going to do and I got PhillipLatosha with me today.
Phillip, it's nice having youhere today yeah, it's a pleasure
to be here.
Thanks for having me come outwell, it's uh, my brother
started talking to you.
How did that happen?

Speaker 3 (01:14):
yeah, we were at.
Uh, we're at the gym, we'rejust talking, um, I mean, we see
each other like all the time.
Uh, there's like a collectionof people who show up kind of at
the same time at the gym.
So so eventually you starttalking to people and you know,
we find out that.
You know, you've got this thing, the podcast.
He was kind of like exploringsome running, some weightlifting
.
So we kind of find our commongrounds there you know, rex

(01:36):
doesn't run, though.
I've seen him run like once ortwice before, or at least try to
, so I figured there wassomething there, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
And I came up in the conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I guess that was uh, yeah, what happened?
He was like hey, you know, uh,my brother, uh was like a big
runner and he wants to likebring you on and talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
So we're here, yeah here, we are right, so bad.
So how long have you beenrunning?

Speaker 3 (02:06):
um, do you want the short answer?
The long answer?
Long answer um, so I think Iknew I was okay at running,
probably as like a kid, maybelike since kindergarten, first
grade, but like I never reallymade anything of it until about
college time.
So, um, I didn't run in school,I played soccer for like a long
time, um, but then in high yeah.

(02:27):
I played like in grade school soI was like always the kid who
if you pass me the ball, I wouldkick the ball like really far
and I'd just run with it.
You know, Um, and then in highschool I kind of took a break
from sports.
I started doing more music.
I played in a band, so runningand like anything of a fitness
level.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
What instrument did you play?

Speaker 3 (02:45):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (02:45):
What instrument?

Speaker 3 (02:47):
did you play?
Oh, I was a guitar player.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Me too, yeah.
So for me, running.
I didn't like it.
I've always wanted to be arunner when I was a kid, but I
was like, fuck, I can't do thisLike in wrestling I would run,
sprint, do all these things, butI was never good at it.
But when I got what were you.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
I was gonna like ask like were you active as a kid at
all?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
um, yeah, I uh.
So we all go through that pudgyphase.
I guess you know when you'regrowing up, but when I, uh was a
freshman, I joined the soccerteam and I was those, uh, a lot
of like, you know, running.
Obviously I didn't think howbad it was gonna be, but it's

(03:30):
like, literally you're allyou're doing is running and then
I enjoyed it.
So I was like fucking I'menjoying wrestling so I joined
wrestling and that's a lot ofrunning.
Dude, I didn't think it was.
It's a lot of sprintingactually.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Because you need endurance for wrestling.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
And yeah, it seems like it's easy on paper and then
you realize it is.
It's the same thing with MMA.
Same thing Just three roundbouts of anything, even UFC 2,
that'll drain you, especiallyupper body cardio man.
It looks easy, but it's not.
That'll drain you, especiallyupper body cardio man.
Like it looks easy but it's notyeah, so what about?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
well, like uh, it's got you, uh like, more focused
on running rather than like youknow what bands and all that
stuff yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
So I guess after high school college kind of happens
um halfway into college.
I guess you go through like ifI talked about like the
self-actualization phase in yourlife, would you know what I'm
kind of talking about no okay.
So that's like the moment whereit like kind of hits you like
there's no like definitivemoment, I think, just reality
snaps and you're just like, okay, what am I doing with my life?

(04:39):
Um, what's my future?
Looking like I'm doing thisthing in college, is this going
to be like a viable future?
Like like it's just realitykind of hitting you and you're
like, oh, okay, I'm like zero,like I'm not invincible at
anything.
So how do we become this thingthat I envisioned I was going to
be 10 years ago, 10 years intothe future?

Speaker 2 (04:59):
so.
So when you were in college youhad this epiphany kind of, and
were you doing any sports at thetime?

Speaker 3 (05:08):
No.
So in college I was doing so Istarted my undergrad in computer
science and just like I guessit's death by a thousand cuts,
right, like some relationshipsin life go bad, you start
realizing that this thing you'restudying might not have a
viable future.
You know, ai coming in, peoplewill work for half price in the

(05:29):
field and, like you know, as Ipredicted, like computer science
is just basically, unlessyou're like the top tier, best
of the best, or in softwareengineering, it's really hard to
find like a computer science.
Ask a job.
Ok, somebody might correct meon that.
But I, I'm pretty sure that'swhat's happening now and, um,
what I was deciding now is like,okay, cool, um, this major I'm

(05:52):
studying might not have a viablefuture.
Um, I feel like physicallyinept cause, you know, I'm not
weightlifting.
I'm like 115, 120 pounds andI'm like 22 years old, so like'm
scrawny, I'm short, you know.
Um, so at what point do westart like breaking out of these
things?
And, uh, I had a friend who wasuh with me in college and he

(06:12):
said, hey, let's just go startweightlifting at the gym at the
college, right?
Uh, I went to a depauluniversity so we were just
working out at depaul, yeah, soI spent a lot of time there.
We were doing like the workoutthat Thor from the Avengers was
doing.
I guess he had like his, orChris Helmsworth had his own
like workout.
So we followed that workoutplan and then, after a while,

(06:33):
like, my friend went on vacationand he didn't come back to the
gym and I was on my own.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
So like, that's your moment of, like you did, chris
Helmsworth's workout plan.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
I did for a while, yeah, and I like distinctly
remember he had a lot of likeforearm workouts, like on arm
day and uh, yeah, those are justfun.
They were like, uh, I guesslike wrist curls and things and
then just everything else waslike kind of standard, like
squats, you know, bench, uh,deadlift, so what was that like?

Speaker 2 (06:57):
was it intense?

Speaker 3 (06:59):
uh, I guess in the beginning it was intense, just
um.
You know your body's like justadapting to everything you're
throwing at it right, especiallystarting at 115, 120 pounds, um
doing deadlifts and then justlike being consistent with um
any sort of workout will kind ofbeat you up.
So at some point I remember Iremember one of these days um,

(07:22):
there was, uh, we did like a legday with one of my other
friends and then we proceeded todo like a three or four mile
run with like intervals, and Idistinctly remember I literally
could not walk for a week, likemy, my, uh quads were so ripped
up that I was like leaningagainst everything wherever I
was because I was like, oh god,I can't walk.
And it was just so funny and,like I remember, my dad looked

(07:42):
at me.
He he's like dude, whatever youdid, like, don't ever do that
again.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
It's all like Jell-O yeah it was like Jell-O.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
He's like whatever you did, like, don't ever do
that again.
And since that day I've beendoing that ever since and I'm
able to still walk, so theadaptations have been good, I
would say.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
That's pretty impressive.
Did your friend keep going?

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Oh yeah, now one of them is like he's a power lifter
.
He tries to like compete inlike any local competitions
around the state.
My other friend works as apersonal trainer, so we all kind
of like start in this littlecluster and we've they're
blossoming.
I don't know if I have, but,like you know, we're trying to
make it, that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, let's get back to you and see if you did
blossom, because you said as akid you were a soccer player and
you were always running around.
What position did you play?

Speaker 3 (08:35):
I was playing forward and left midfield Because I'm a
lefty, so they want me on theleft side.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
So how did you play?

Speaker 3 (08:44):
during high school school.
I played for one year in highschool and I think, um you've
probably maybe noticed this,I've seen this before like
playing in grade school andplaying in high school are two
completely different animals.
Absolutely I can't vouch forwhat happens in college sports.
I also imagine that's different.
But like I played with reallyweird people who were, um, just
not good team players in highschool and it was just.

(09:06):
It was one of those thingswhere, like I wanted to quit
like three weeks into the sportand like my parents told me like
hey, listen, just you stickwith it.
You like you signed up, justfinish the year off or finish
the season and from there youcan do whatever you want.
You know in school.
But it was kind of one of thoseimportant lessons of like hey,
even if it's bad, just finish it, just go through with the

(09:26):
experiment, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Would you say that's what drove you away from playing
soccer.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
I would say so yeah, and that would also be the thing
with other things.
But yeah, soccer especially,that was a big one.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
When you play with a bad team or you just have that
bad personal experience, it'lluh well, there's a lot of
politics and, like high schoolsports, do like who starts, who
doesn't start, like what parent,like donates, like money
towards the team, like who'sclose to the team.
So I totally understand whereyou're coming from yeah, and
that's interesting becausethat's you.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
You bring this up and I've only heard about this the
first time from, like, someoneelse at the gym who, um, his son
plays baseball.
It must be something like outhere in the suburbs, where
that's kind of that thing wherethe politics play in, because,
like when I was living inchicago, like you signed up on
the team, uh, if you played fora private school, there was like
maybe like maximum 15, 20people and like you got to play.

(10:25):
It's not like your parents likeput in some sort of influence
to make sure you were a forwardor some sort of recruiter came
in like it's.
It's weird how I see thatdifference and I understand that
out here would be crazy like ifyou weren't born in this
particular um, like I don't knowif you weren't born in crystal
lake, like I don't want to seeyou on my team, kind of thing,

(10:45):
you know that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, no, that's that's how it is, though it's
insane.
I don't understand it either.
But now we're now you're grownyou kind of understand it, you
know.
So did you like continuerunning like during high school,
like just for fun?

Speaker 3 (11:05):
um, not really.
I was like full-blown into likeplaying in a band, playing in
music.
Like we would, you know, showup to like people's basements
and play like heavy metal music.
It was so fun yeah.
So that was like that was kindof our shtick for like years.
And then, uh, with that kind ofgoing on, and then I eventually
got to a point where I gothired as a music teacher.
So I was like teaching guitar,voice, piano, that was like my

(11:29):
thing for a little while.
It was my gig in college.
So music was like a big dealfor me for a long time.
And then there was just thatshift, when I was
self-actualizing life, of likehey, am I going to do music for
the rest of my life?
Am I doing computer science?
What's grad school going tolook like?
All these things kind of cametogether and what came out of it
was that, hey, this runningthing is cool, I want to start,

(11:52):
you know, getting fit again.
Music started taking kind oflike this back burner for me,
because I was just burnt out forlike doing music for 10 years,
teaching it, you know.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
I mean it seems like you had a lot going on.
Yeah, there's, you have to.
Computer science got the bandthat you want.
You want to like.
Uh, I feel like you're a typeperson where you want to jump in
the deep end and get every liketake go 100, is that correct?

Speaker 3 (12:19):
sure, I guess.
But yeah, like you mentioned it, it's impossible to get that
100%.
Do you want to be an 80% expertat one thing, or 60% to 40% at
10 different things?
That's, I guess, what you'rekind of talking about yeah.
So at that point it was like40% being generous.
It was 40% good at like five orsix different things or things

(12:43):
I was interested in 40 good atlike five or six different
things or things I wasinterested in.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, so for me, like it's me, and you are completely
different when I uh, when I was, like in high school and
growing up I wasn't a runner, Iwasn't good.
Then when I got to the militaryI learned that you have to run
you know I learned I wasactually a pretty good runner.
You know I uh my uh mile, mybest mile was four minutes 19
seconds.
I weighed 185 and, uh, my bestfive miles, because we did five

(13:11):
miles in the military instead oflike five k's or 10 k's, we did
five miles.
My best five mile was aroundlike 31 minutes and I was uh you

(13:31):
one minute and I was uh 175,185 pounds.
So, um, do you like?
Do you?
Do you like?

Speaker 3 (13:35):
uh, try to keep keep track of your prs, your personal
record, your personal recordsyeah, so I mean, I guess first
off you know, thank you for yourservice um, yeah and then, on
the note of like a 419 mile,like fun fact, you would
probably be able to get ontodepaul's track and field team
with a 419, so you should havedone it.
It would have been great, but no, um, uh, in terms of records,

(13:56):
yeah, I keep track of like thebig ones and it's funny because,
like we keep track of theopposite ones right, like I've
never actually tried to do likea full-blown mile to see how
fast I can go.
I kind of know like where my 5kwas at at its best.
But like the big times for meare like the half marathon and
the marathon and I understandthat that's kind of.
Maybe this is kind of whereit's contentious as a runner,

(14:17):
like that could be workingbackwards in terms of trying to
get faster for a marathon,because you want to get the
basics down first before youstart pushing into like 26.2
mile range.
So what?

Speaker 2 (14:28):
what drew you to your first marathon?

Speaker 3 (14:31):
what was that?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
what drew you to your first marathon?
Like how, what, like it'd be?
Yeah, your mind says that I'mgonna run a marathon because
that's like a tough assignment,you know.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
I mean, it doesn't seem tough, your first one ever,
but I mean, after that it kindof you think about it more.
But what got me to the firstmarathon?
I guess there's a couple ofthings.
One I know my dad like alwaysvolunteered for the Chicago
Marathon for like as long as Iremember, since 2009,.
Right, so he was always at mile25.
Since 2009.

(15:08):
Right so he was always at mile25.
Um, so the idea of the marathonwas like always, I guess,
ingrained in my family, but theynever like ran it.
I was like the only seriousrunner in my family.
So what happened there wasthat's always ingrained.
And then, um, in 2015, 2016,.
You know, you talk to yourfriends, you kind of continue
running and you're like, hey,this running thing's kind of
cool.
I can do a 5k, I can do a halfmarathon.
What happens if we do themarathon?

(15:28):
And, like I was young, I waslike naive, so I'm like I can
totally just wake up one day andjust do one.
And that's kind of whathappened.
And I got to remember the nameof the trail, but it's in Niles,
illinois.
You go up to the botanicgardens.
It's like 13 miles up, 13 milesdown.
So I said okay, I've biked onthis many times.
What if I just run the entirething and just we call it a

(15:49):
marathon?
And I remember just one dayafter work, you know, I had
Jimmy John's like for lunch andthen I put on my running shoes
and I went ahead and attemptedit and it was like a really
rainy, grueling, like foggy dayand uh, my like my parents were
freaking out about it too.
They like came out halfway andthey're like okay, like we'll

(16:10):
come out and like support youwhile we're on bikes and stuff
and you can just like finishthis thing, because this is
crazy, what you're attempting.
I'm like no, it's not.
Like this is fun, this is great.
So there was like a mindsetdifference there of like one
half of the house is likefreaking out and I'm just kind
of like yeah, I'm just kind ofhaving a good time and like I
remember it took me like fivehours to finish the marathon,
but that didn't really matter tome.

(16:30):
What mattered was just gettingit done.
And from there, that kind oflike planted the seeds of like
hey, let's like do actualmarathons and like actually
train for this and see what canhappen.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know, yeah, yeah, man, uh, I just miss running.
So, like when you're talkingabout it, I'm just thinking
about it, yeah, because likewhen I was pissed off, I would
just sprint as fast as I can, Iwould go outside, and that
sounds like, that sounds like achildish thing to do, but like
you need to do something whenyou're like pissed, like.

(17:00):
So I would either go to the gymor I would sprint as fast as I
can for like a fucking mile, youknow yeah like so I, I don't
know, I mean my thoughts rightnow, which I shouldn't be, but
yeah, that's.
That's cool, man.
So when did you run your firstmarathon?

Speaker 3 (17:20):
it was probably sometime after the chicago
marathon in 2015 or 14.
I think it was 15.
And it was just like Ivolunteered to just hand out
water during the marathon and Iwas like, okay, cool, I can
totally do this, because you getinspired.
You see people run.
I think they call it therunning bug, where if you see
somebody run, you're just likeI'm going to start doing that

(17:42):
now.
Or you're the opposite andyou're like, oh my god, that
person's crazy, like it's one orthe other.
Um, but I saw people run thechicago marathon.
I'm like I can do that and Ijust did it, like, probably,
exactly what is it now?
Uh, 24, maybe, like exactlyeight, nine years ago now.
So around this time was when Idid it.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
That's why I actually occurred.
So that's kind of crazy.
I just get it.
What's considered a good timefor?

Speaker 3 (18:18):
a marathon.
I know the average, I think, isabout either four and a half or
five and a half hours, so Ithink anything above one of
those two times is consideredgood.

(18:46):
I've always held it to myselfthat running under three hours
is like that's the, that's thebar, you know, because if you
can run under three hours,currently, you would qualify to
run the Boston Marathon, whichis, I think, held under high
prestige, as like the marathonto run yeah, it's the hardest
one, right?
Um, it's the hardest one.
It's just also like you have toqualify for that.
You can't just I mean, you cansign up as a charity runner but
you can't just like sign up forit and just expect them to be
like you're in, you know.
Like chicago, you can do that.
I think with new york you mightbe able to, um, lond, london,
tokyo, like the marathon majorsthis is the ones I'm talking
about Like those, I think youcould just sign up and do, but,

(19:08):
like Boston, they want you tolike, they want you to know that
you're like, they want to knowthat you're the best of the best
before they like let you kindof race.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
So when I so when I used to run, I used to, like you
know, like get in in the zone,you know, and like when I ran,
like after like four miles, likeit literally felt like I was
walking.
You know like it feels normalto walk when you're running, it
feels like normal.
Did you ever get like tired, orwere you ever just like you

(19:38):
know, this is easy, or could yougo for like like what's the
longest you've ever gone?
Have you gone past a marathon?

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, I have on accident.
I think I did about 27, maybe28 miles at some point.
But yeah, what you're talkingabout I guess it's like the idea
of the runner's high.
To an extent, you've gone past.
You know 20, 25 minutes ofrunning and now it's just like I

(20:07):
don't know.
You're in your head now andyou're just like in the zone and
then, like the cannabinoids ofyour uh within your body are now
like kind of in full force, soyou just feel like you're
floating and you're going.
Um, I've hit that point manytimes.
Uh, I think the craziest timeswhen you hit that is like when
you're in the middle of marathontraining.
So when you do 20, like youthink about that 20 mile run and
you think, oh, my God, this isgoing to be grueling Right.

(20:28):
Um, I can think of threedifferent occasions when I would
do that 20 mile run in themarathon training block where I
would hit like mile 15, mile 16.
And I would just start laughinguncontrollably in the middle of
the run and I was like, okay, Ihit the runner's's high.
Like my brain is like in thezone and like you can't control
the emotions.
You're like laughing one momentand then you're like you're
ready to start crying the nextand you're like what is?

Speaker 2 (20:50):
going on.
You're not like slowing downeither, like you're staying at
the same pace.
It's insane, it's like it's.
It's so hard to explain topeople who don't do it, but when
you get there and you see, youunderstand what we're talking
about.
Like people out there likethey'll, they'll be like oh wow,
this.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
This is amazing the feeling yeah, and that's one of
the draws, I think, to like longdistance running and probably
even like 5k, 10k running islike that feeling of you know
your body, just um, you're,you're out of your head but
you're kind of also in it andyou're just like zoned in tunnel
vision on some kind of goalthat you might be trying to get
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
So when you're running, I mean, obviously
there's a grueling phase, youknow like there's for some
people, like I hit it aroundlike five miles.
But when I pass the five milerange and I start getting that
runner's high, like you saidlike, but sometimes pass the
five mile range and I startgetting that runner's high, like
you said like, but sometimesaround the five mile run, I'm

(21:50):
like, okay, I need to slow downa little bit, but when do you
think you uh hit the gruelingphase?

Speaker 3 (21:56):
um, like probably in the daily run or your average
run, I think about the sameright.
So like you hit five miles andyou're like, oh, okay, cool, I
hit five miles and then you getto like the 10k point of like
6.2 miles, seven, eight.
It starts getting like a littlemore grueling, depending on you
know your fitness at the time.
But yeah, like if you, if myaverage run is about six to

(22:17):
seven miles a day or you know,40, 50 miles a week, that's
probably where I expect to kindof hit that wall at like typical
baseline fitness, not like ifI'm in a marathon training block
, but just like day-to-day right.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right, how many marathons have you ran?

Speaker 3 (22:35):
I think I've done eight official marathons, or
it's eight total.
I'll have to double check that,but they were all Chicago
marathons, minus 2020 and 2023,since 2016 what, uh, do you plan
on going throughout the country?

Speaker 2 (22:51):
because I had a teacher.
Uh, miss petrie, shout out,miss petrie.
I can't believe I rememberedher name, dude.
She was a keyboard teacherbecause they were teaching us
how to type and she had all ofher things in the class and she
did every marathon in thecountry.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Isn't that crazy that you remember the teachers that
ran big races and stuff?
I have a teacher like that,earl Dannen.
We're going to shout you out.
Let's go, yeah, in hisaccounting class when I was in
high school he had all of hisbibs on the walls of the
classroom.
You're like, man, this guy runsa lot and stuff.
It's only then you realize howcool running is.

(23:31):
When you see your teachers inhigh school kind of do it All of
a sudden you're like wait aminute, I'm that guy, that's me
now.
It's kind of fun.
In terms of running across thecountry.
I've done like a few runsacross the country.
I've been trying to get into,you know, across the globe as
well.
Um, I'm trying to do all themarathon majors right now and
they just introduced a new one.

(23:52):
So, uh, the marathon majors areChicago, Tokyo, London, Boston
and New York and Berlin, and nowthey've added Sydney, Australia
, to the list.
So I've got six more marathonsto go to get the World Marathon
majors full completion.
So I've got a big itinerary togo.

(24:12):
And, yeah, most people try intheir lifetime to run all six.
You don't have to run them well, or all seven in this case.
But you don't have to run themwell, you just want to get them
done, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
When are you going to run them?
Well, you just want to get themdone.
You know when are you gonna runthe next one?

Speaker 3 (24:28):
good question um, I am officially confirmed for next
chicago, just because I havelike a legacy feature for that.
I did sign up for berlin.
Um, in 2019.
I was accepted for tokyo andjust because you know, the world
kind of changed in 2020.
I kept pushing thatregistration back and I kind of
lost it.
So I have to start registeringfor them sooner than later.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
I wonder what the difference is like the scenery.
You run Berlin, so much historyin Berlin.
In Tokyo you run the TokyoMarathon.
I wonder why they're called themajor like cities for the
marathon.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
You know um, I think that's just the organization,
that's what abbott, I guess theyrun this thing.
Um, they just consider it likethe big six of like.
I don't know, maybe it isbecause they're just big cities
and that's just what they wantto do but it's abit, abit uh
world marathon majors lookingright now it's this fine

(25:27):
authentic world marathon majorspure apparel.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
That I'm fucking wow, just shout it out.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Abit marathon majors is default abit um, I mean I
think I have them on instagram.
But yeah, if abit you'relistening, can you guys get me
registered for all of them nextyear?
I'll run all seven next year.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
I mean, what are your times?

Speaker 3 (25:50):
Well, right now my fitness is not great.
I just ran Chicago in 3.32.
My fastest marathon ever isabout three hours ten minutes
and some seconds, so we got toget that to below three hours.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
What was the fastest?
Remember that.
To below, uh, three hours.
Boy is the fastest.
Remember that guy.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
He broke the record with the shoes, his Nike shoes
there was yeah, there's two, Iguess, prominent records in
marathon running.
There is, uh, elliot Kipchoge,when he ran um the sub two hour
in like it was like anunsanctioned race, but they,
they just closed off all theroads and they did that record
in, I think, 2021 or 2019.

(26:28):
One of those two years.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Last year it was broken.
It says Calvin Kipton from theChicago Marathon broke the
record for the fastest marathon.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Yeah, that's the fastest official one.
Yeah, so rest in peace.
Calvin Kipton, he died.
Yeah, yeah, he was in a caraccident.
Uh, this year jesus yeah himand his coach.
It was crazy like he just ranthe marathon and then, like
three, four months later, hepassed away in kenya.
But no, yeah, he has theofficial fastest marathon.
I think it was two hours and 35seconds.

(27:01):
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (27:02):
yeah, yeah right.
Two hours and 35 seconds.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
You know your shit yeah, it's crazy, like it's
crazy in chicago too fast dude,holy shit.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
And he was wearing the dude shoes, I'm pretty sure
he was wearing.
Let's talk about that so.
So in 2015, like I was wearinglike regular asics, I went to
the store.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
I got some asics you know, I mean yeah, that's uh,
and other shoes.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
I know there are some shoes, but in the military
they're like, hey, go get somerunning shoes.
Okay, got the running shoes.
I, I'm a shoe, I'm a sneakerhead, okay, and I watch, like
you know, like seth fowler andum kais and all these other
people, and they review shoes,right, and they're telling me,

(27:50):
like, how soft it is, like theultra boost when there was ultra
boost phase, and then the, theeasy phase, and now new balance
is huge with the softness and Ilike how it's walking on like
cushions and stuff.
What would you say like theevolution of like the shoe, like
for running, like do you thinkit helps runners or do you think

(28:13):
it's, uh, just facade?

Speaker 3 (28:15):
um, it's definitely got its pros and cons.
So, like most of the technologynow, like kind of what you
described, it's like there'scushions and like hoko was big
on this with like making a shoethat made you feel like you were
running on clouds, right.
Like asics has this thing withlike the Nova Blast, like where
it's running on likemarshmallows and things like
that.
So having the higher stack onthe foam helps with road running

(28:36):
because it just reduces theimpact on your knees.
You know, hips on your back, sothat's the theory behind it.
So we'll see in the next 10years how that kind of goes.
Uh, but what changed racingoverall was when they started
putting carbon plates in between, like foam stacks and shoes.
So you'll have a much stiffershoe, but it feels like a spring

(28:57):
when you bounce off the ground.
So yeah, that's what I heard,yeah, so that's kind of where
some of the technology is.
I know adidas um they wereexperimenting more with like a
claw kind of shape, with likecarbon rods going through a shoe
.
So the big thing now is likeputting this stiff carbon plate
or nylon, whatever material itis between foam stacks so you

(29:18):
run faster.
In terms of pros and cons, Iget pros are like if you have
the right biomechanics I thinkyou'll benefit from those shoes,
but if you don't, you mightrisk more injury because they're
just so stiff.
So like if we want to get realtechnical about like sneaker
stuff, like um, everybody haslike a way where they like stand

(29:39):
and they walk where a certainoffset in the shoe so their
stack height um is paramount totheir running form.
I don't know if that makessense.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
So it's like everybody has different feet,
yeah, so like you might overpronate, you might over supinate
.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
So the difference is like pronations, like, um, your
arches sink in.
Supination is when they sink orwhen they um, when you're like
leaning more on your like pinkytoes.
So if you pronate too much, youneed, like a higher stack
height to overcome that.
So if, if you have a shoe likethe Nike Alpha Fly 1, okay, they
have like a stack height that'smore neutral.

(30:14):
But if you over pronate it mightnot like feel good for you in
the shoe.
So you might need somethingmore like the Vaporfly, which is
like 8 millimeters, 10millimeters kind of going up to
overcome that arch difference.
So it's like these are likeminuscule details.
A lot of people kind of just upto overcome that arch difference
.
So it's like these are likeminuscule details.
A lot of people kind of justoverlook those.
But, um, as somebody who likereviews running shoes fairly
regularly, like these are thingsI think about when it comes to

(30:37):
what we talked about earlierlike the basics, like what kind
of shoe is good for me on aday-to-day basis that would
prevent injury and like be goodfor my running form?

Speaker 2 (30:45):
right, uh, to all the like uh, young runners other
than not the young, thebeginners, you know, people who
are like trying to get intorunning.
What uh do you recommend theydo like when it comes to like
getting the perfect shoe orgetting the shoe that's most
ideal for them?

Speaker 3 (31:05):
yeah, well, I guess for like absolute beginners, um,
as somebody who reviews shoesdon't listen to me I would go to
like a running store.
You know, get fitted by likeprofessionals, let them look at
your running form.
I would hope, fingers crossed,that, like the place you go to,
they know what they're talkingabout.
They could put you in a shoethat's like good for your form.
And, um, as somebody who waslike injured with like shin

(31:27):
splints, you, you probablyremember the days of shin
splints.
Right.
So I was like running in shoesthat made no sense to me.
And then I went to this umrunning store, I think in
Arlington Heights, just like youknow, a few miles East of here,
and, um, basically they put mein I think it was the Brooks
adrenaline 16.
And and since then I've neverhad shin splints, and it was a

(31:48):
shoe that I put over 600 milesin and I was like, wow, this is
crazy.
I never thought there would bea shoe that would not make me
feel injured all the time, andsince then I paid attention to
those things.
What did the Brooks Adrenalinedo that shoes now that I'm
wearing can do?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
I'm just thinking how lucky we are compared like
people in the 1980s and the1990s, like wearing different
shoes, you know.
Compared to like what we're,like you're talking about the
arch and this and that, and likenike's coming up with this
technology just so you can rungood yoga shin splits, like you
know.
Shout out to all those peoplethat ran marathons back then.
Like that, that, that, that's.
That's that's some respect.

(32:29):
Honestly, put some respect onthat.
Yeah, yeah, and they would likerun barefoot, basically, I was
just about to ask you would youever run a barefoot?

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Um, on the roads?
Probably not, unless it waslike for some kind of cause, for
some kind of cause which I'veseen people do, but like, um,
when I was uh spending someconsiderable time in florida,
you would just run barefoot onthe beach, like that was.
It was good for you and I thinkI guess you can correct me,
maybe, um, you can keep me uhhonest about this.
But I know like some people inthe military, especially in the

(33:00):
army, they would like run in thesand but like barefoot yeah, it
depends, like if you'restationed in like hawaii or
something you know yeah yeah,it's more intense and I think
it's better for your feetbecause you're building those
like micro arch muscles um inyour feet, working on, like
those micro tendons in yourankles.
So running on sand, um, it hasits pros and cons.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
I would say and like when you run on the street, you
build callus.
You know which is good, like alot of people like, though, if
they don, you run on the street,you build callus.
You know which is good, like alot of people don't like, though
, if they don't run on thestreet with shoes, you know, you
build callus, and that's whatyou need, rather than running on
a treadmill or a treadmill yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yeah, no, that's true too.
Yeah, I mean treadmill workout.
It has its place, but like forthe most part, like if you can
spend time outside, um, justenjoying yourself I think that's
like I don't know.
Somebody's gonna yell at melike it's better than running on
a treadmill.
But again, they all have theirplace in a training program.
You just gotta you doeverything in moderation.

(34:00):
You shouldn't just likeentirely train on a treadmill
for a marathon and you shouldn'tlike entirely expect to be
injury free running outside.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
That's my thoughts, okay so we let's go back to like
you know, like marathon talking, like not you in particular,
because I guess you're for scumdid, but what like can you like
walk me through?
Like what people have to do totrain for a marathon sure, yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
so I think the science revolving around the
marathon is a little bit more Iguess it's more defined now than
it was, like, you know, 20, 30years ago.
Like people understand thatthere's like, okay, you build
three weeks, you take a weekeasy, three weeks and you like
keep stacking it and eventuallyyou get to a point like two or
three weeks before your marathonyou run like 20 or 20, 20 or 22

(34:50):
miles and then you do likewhat's called the taper right
when you like, um, ease off themiles, you take it easy, you
start eating more, you rest moreand then the day of the race,
bam, you should be theoreticallyready.
So I think, in terms ofmarathon training, like plans
exist and I think they're fairlyaccurate in terms of getting
you to the goals you might belooking for and keeping you, for

(35:12):
the most part, injury free.
Uh, during a marathon, um wheredid you learn?
that.
So I mean that's like researchfrom you.
Know anything online?
I know, um, the hansen's, thehansen running program.
They like wrote books aboutthis, um, and they've kind of
like laid this out Not as fineas like kind of the way I
explained it.
That's like the summary of it,but they like knew these certain

(35:34):
things that would just exist ina training block where, like
some days you're just pushingreally hard, you're doing speed
work, and then I guess the otherthing to mention here is that,
like on a week to week basisbasis, uh, 80 of your running
was like super easy and then 20of it was like that speed work
that was a little bit harder.
You know your sprints and allthat.
So they ran on the theory thatif you just spent a lot of time

(35:56):
running, just time on feet, uh,that would get you to the
marathon better than like youjust going full blast every
single day like like a maniac,you know well, yeah, that
there's that saying.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I can't think of it right now.
You can't.
Uh, it's fuck.
I can't think of the sayingwhere it takes uh, you can't.
It's like a like it's a run,like you have to like run before
you sprint or something likethat.
Or like you're training for amarathon, something I I fucking
boasted I'm thinking of likemaybe a variation of that.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
It's like you're not going to like win a marathon,
like in the first mile, kind ofthing.
Like this is a long-term kindof process yeah, it almost
becomes your side job kind ofwhat about the night before?

Speaker 2 (36:41):
what do you have to do?
Do you have to eat differently?

Speaker 3 (36:44):
um sure, I mean, if the night before a marathon, I
guess it's like you could eatdifferently.
But the rule this is one oflike those weird things I've
heard is like, oh yeah, thenight before you carve up, right
, that's the one where, like,you eat 20 pounds of spaghetti
or something like that.
But what I've learned over timeis like you don't do that the
night before, you do that likethe entire week before because
you got to like teach your bodyto like hold more calories down.

(37:06):
Because when you're running themarathon, you're just you're
cooking calories you know, dude,I would think the opposite.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
That's crazy.
So you have to like carve up,eat a bunch of carbs yeah I.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
I mean, you definitely have to get some
carbs.
You need some like quick fuelsin you.
Um, if you've been liketraining like that, like I would
definitely not do something,that's different.
Uh, the night before yourmarathon that you didn't do your
during your training program,like you don't buy brand new
pairs of shoes like the nightbefore the marathon and you're
like I'm racing in those, likethat's crazy.
Don't do that.
Like you got to break in theshoes, you got to like break in

(37:40):
the socks, like everythingmatters at that point what about
the morning do?

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Do you eat anything?

Speaker 3 (37:47):
No, I like to go empty stomach.
I'll have like maybe a littlebit of coffee, maybe a little
bit of pre if I need to, butyeah, nothing, nothing crazy.
You know you don't want likeanything to upset your stomach.
What do you eat for training?
It depends.
I guess, like the rule I'vefollowed with training is like

(38:07):
whatever I eat 48 hours beforeis like kind of what will fuel
me for the run.
That's kind of coming ahead, andI'm sure that's like
contentious and some people willdisagree, but like if I know
Monday night that on Wednesday Ihave to do a speed workout,
I'll eat like more carbs.
I like spaghetti, maybe likechicken, parmesan or something
like that.
You know something yummy, Iwould say.

(38:28):
And then by the time Wednesdayrolls around, hopefully whatever
I was a carb loading on wouldbe used as my fuel source then.
And then, if I'm runningsomething slower or like I know
it's going to be an easy day,you'd eat something a little bit
more dense, maybe not as carbintensive, maybe like a steak,
some eggs, something along thoselines.
But at the end of the day, Idon't think it truly matters

(38:52):
what you eat.
I think as long as you'refueling, I think that's like
priority number one, because youknow that like if you don't eat
or you don't rest, well, you'rejust going to have a terrible
time running overall.
How many?

Speaker 2 (39:03):
calories.
Do you have to eat like whileyou're training to not lose
weight doing all this?

Speaker 3 (39:07):
cardio.
Yeah, I guess that also dependstoo on, like, your mileage per
week.
The rule I think people havefollowed is that it's a
contentious number two but it'slike 100 calories per mile.
But that varies for everyone,right?
Like, is that the rule forsomebody like me who weighs 140
pounds?
Is that like the same rule forsomebody who weighs 300 pounds,
right?

(39:27):
So, um, if you use like ahundred as a baseline and you
know like, okay, fine, um, I'vegot maintenance calories during
the day you know, I'm thinkingreal hard in front of the
computer.
I got to walk around, I got tolike, do all these things, um,
and you're doing this for likean eight mile run, then you
would probably assume maybe atsome point during the day you're
going to eat like an 800calorie meal plus minus, um,

(39:50):
just to kind of give you maybesome like reserve calories for
repair and things like that.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
There's a lot of mechanics to it.
I wonder what uh, the, the, themarathon runner?
Uh, we were just talking aboutKelvin.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Kelvin Kipton, yeah I wonder what he does.
I really do yeah, I know kenyandiet.
Um, if they're training inkenya, I gotta remember the name
of the food.
Oh my gosh, you guys could lookthis up too.
I think it's called ugali orungali.
It's like a carb, dense likedough and like.
They eat this thing and it's'stheir main fuel source.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
You're right, kenyan Oogali, it's right there.
Yeah, that thing right there.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
That is their power fuel right there, and to us it
looks like dough, it looks likea ball of rice and that's what
they eat to fuel for a marathonor any sort of workout and it's
crazy.
That's kind of the primary oneand obviously they got veggies
and like fruits and things likethat, but that's like the main
one I've heard.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Have you ever tried it?

Speaker 3 (40:50):
I have not.
I want to, though I knowthere's like some really cool
Kenyan restaurants like inChicago, so if I go down there I
might like.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
You can see, like the nutrition facts or the calories
178.
It's 38 carbs for 170 calories.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Yeah, that's a carb bomb, that's a good one, and
then calorie count is not toohigh.
Good sodium too, just to keepeverything there.
Good protein, good sugars.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, so fuck, chicken parm, it's there, golly,
that's what you need.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Why not both?

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Why not both?
Yeah, no, I like that man.
You're a really positive dude,philip.
You really are on the showwhere the we, we tell people to
share their stories and yeah,obviously there's your story's
not done.
You're a young kid, just likeme, and I hope you do all those

(41:44):
major cities for sure.
You know, know, I really, likeyou said, the one you want to do
most is Tokyo.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Yeah, tokyo's the big one.
Everyone wants me to do Tokyobecause they want to go with me
to Tokyo.
So I'm like, okay, fine, I getit.
That's like the.
That's the bit, right?

Speaker 2 (42:01):
So it's fine.
So my question is have you everlike rock bottom in your life?
Oh, totally, all the time.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Like happens on a daily basis.
It's just like you try not tolike dwell in those moments.
You know, it's just like I don'twant to be like defined by my
negative moments in life andlike it's weird that some people
like embrace that They'll belike oh yeah, I don't even want
to like think of the examples orlike put anyone on blast.
I just don't like the idea thatsome people just enjoy dwelling

(42:32):
in misery, I guess and maybethis is just a runner's thing,
or just the fact that we go tothe gym and we take care of our
bodies.
That's not something we thinkabout of like oh man, work is so
hard.
Oh man, I was a formeralcoholic or I had some kind of
big issue in my life.
I don't know, it's hard toexplain because I can't.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Is there negativity, negative people, big issue in my
life?
I don't, I don't know.
It's hard to explain because Ican't like is there like
negativity, like negative peoplelike around you in your life?

Speaker 3 (42:59):
I'm sure there are.
Just like I don't dwell on that.
I guess like have people liketold me weird stuff or like, um,
you know they they tell me likethey're depressing stories in
their life.
I'm sure, yeah, and it's like Ican't really relate with a lot
of those negative stories.
I guess, like I think aboutthose things like I won't put
anyone again on blast, but likepeople will tell me like, uh,

(43:20):
you know their parents passingaway or they're on some kind of
like antidepressants, becausethat's just like what's going on
in their life, and like I don'tknow, I just can't relate to
like those, I guess, moments inlife yet, but I don't know it's
all those endorphins probably.
I don't know.
It's just again like the wholepositivity thing.

(43:40):
Like I don't like try to likepretend like I'm the most
positive person in the world,like your.
Your perception of me is thatlike I'm positive and like yeah,
I hope that's the case.
Like I don't dwell on thenegative stuff too much and if I
do, I use that as like fuel toget better.
You know, like if something'snot going well at work, you know
that's like I'll think about it, I'll take that problem with me

(44:00):
on a run and we'll, like we'llwork it out, you know do you do
you think I'm positive?
I mean from the time that we'vesat here and we've talked, I'd
like you.
You strike me as positive.
I know you've definitely hadlike a positive kind of I don't
know if upbringing is probablythe way I would say it but like
your experience, probably in themilitary, with running, like I

(44:23):
would imagine it was like mostlygood, or you've had like a good
learning experience somewhere Ireally wish I was able to get
into like the mechanics, likeyou did.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
But the military is just running.
They don't care what you eat,they tell you to put salt on
your food.
That's it, because I guesssodium helps you not pass out
electrolytes.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Yeah, it prevents the cramping, it prevents the
cramping.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yes, they tell you to put salt on your food, but I
don't know the scientificmechanics of running and I wish
I was able to do that.
But yeah, no, I'm, for the mostpart, pretty positive.
That's why I started the showBasically, share your story and

(45:12):
what are some of the littlethings you think in life that
you have that, um, could betaken away from you, like, like
at any point?
Like what are some of thelittle things that you kind of
forget about that you know, youappreciate oh, like the, the
little things.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Well, I mean obviously like just being able
to like wake up and just like dothis, whatever this is just
like on a daily basis, is alwaysfun.
You know, just being able tohave the idea of like, hey look,
I've got this job that like Ienjoy.
I've got this thing like I cantalk to cool people, I've got
running, you know what's your?
job.
So I work as a cyber securityanalyst for a major airline.

(45:52):
I don't know if they want me tolike shout them out or not, but
you know it's a, it's it's theairline.
So it's.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
What is that Like?
Is that like for, liketerrorist attacks or anything?

Speaker 3 (46:03):
No, no, no, it's like just a, you know, domestic
commercial airline here in theStates, one of the big four, so
four.
So if I was to say deltaamerican airlines, united and
southwest, it's one of thosefour, we'll put it that way,
don't box yourself.
Yeah, that's right, yeahthey're probably already like
looking at my last name.
They they know everything aboutme already.
But yeah, so from a cybersecurity perspective, um, the

(46:24):
airlines are really cool, sojust um do you have to like go
into work or do you work from?
home.
So, yeah, we're officially 100remote as of like a few months
ago, but I was, um, technicallyconsidered, hybrid but it's like
it's impossible because, likeeveryone is just all over the
globe on my team now.
Right, like we started.
When I started, it was likevery early 2020 and then, like

(46:46):
the first six weeks of my job,um, I got to go into the office
and then, um, once the pandemicstarted, we were like remote
indefinitely.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
We're still supposed to bring that up.
What were airlines like whenthe pandemic was going on?
Because I know the freakingtickets were cheap as fuck.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
So it was definitely pandemonium because, like, they
basically shut down flyinginternationally but domestic
wasn't so bad.
So if you were like a primarilydomestic airline, you might've
been okay, but like people still, you know, stayed home, they
didn't fly or anything like that.
So, um for us.
I think I got lucky under a lotof circumstances.
So when I started on thecybersecurity team, I was just a

(47:28):
contractor.
They had the option to like letme go in 2020.
And 2020 and um, I don't knowif somebody was just watching
out for me at the company, butthey, like they kept me on.
Um, a lot of people left, a lotof people got let go.
Um because, but because theteam I worked on was like
operation critical, they kept me.
So I've been on a team eversince, but I was brought on as a

(47:49):
full-time employee in, uh,christmas of, I think 2021, and
I've been a full-time employeein Christmas of I think 2021.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
And I've been a full-time employee since.
Was it pretty hard during thepandemic?

Speaker 3 (48:00):
for you.
I would say so, especially ifyou've never worked in the field
.
You're just kind of learningeverything remotely you can't
physically sit down withsomebody and they show you how
to use a tool or how to do likesome sort of analysis, right,
like you're learning a lot ofthis stuff either from what you
learned in school, what youlearned from the first six weeks
that you were there, so youkind of learn a lot of it on

(48:21):
your own.
And then it obviously becomestricky from a morale standpoint
because you could get siloed outfrom, like you know you're
sitting in front of yourcomputer all day long, by
yourself in some cases.
So that definitely could take amental toll on some people.
And that's where when I hearcompanies talk about having that
hybrid model and people likelose their minds over it, like I

(48:42):
don't hate the idea but like Iwould only do it if you want to
be that kind of hybrid employee.
So it depends, like if you havea family yeah, yeah, and it's
like for me it's cool because,like, yeah, I a family at home
Sounds like you're flexible,yeah, yeah, and it's like for me
it's cool because like, yeah, Iguess sure I don't have like
kids or like a wife or anythinglike that, so I can go to a
different country if I wanted toand work, just it's.

(49:04):
That's nice, yeah that's.
I think a lot of people do likeembrace that idea and I think
if you have good managers whoare like, hey, listen, you can
work from wherever you want, youcan work whenever you want,
just get the work done, I thinkthat's like positive for a 100
remote work kind of deal.
So speaking of the pandemic,how did your training?
Change, like your.
Your marathon training changedduring the pandemic um, so

(49:27):
obviously, when you don't havelike a race goal within like the
immediate future, that kind ofputs certain things uh on hold.
Uh, for me personally, Ithought so this was happening
like in 2019.
Towards the end of um the year,I was like dead set that I was
going to run tokyo marathon.
So I was running like 90 milesa week.
I was like burnt out.
I was like ready just to likestop all the running all

(49:48):
together.
And then I guess, um, theyannounced first, I guess like
the virus was spreading in likeChina and then like, uh, parts
of Japan got hit and I'm like,okay, I'm definitely not, it's
not gonna happen for sure rightand then they announced that
like just the elites would run,and a long story short, like
knowing that all the races wereput on hold.

(50:09):
Um, I just wanted to keep like agood baseline so I like I I
kept running every single day,but it was like anywhere from
like five to seven miles a day,maybe less.
But I also had like astationary bike trainer at home,
so I just figured like yeah,okay, like just keep everything
consistent, because eventuallythis is all going to be like put
to side and like racing isgoing to resume.
So, like, when that light hits,like are you going to be ready,

(50:33):
you know when, when the gungoes off for that thing?
So, um, fast forward, like youknow that whole year later it's
2021.
Um, I spent like a month inFlorida and, like Florida has
been completely open.
They're like racing justregularly.
They have like five Ks, 10 Ks.
I don't know if they have likemarathons or anything, but I
remember I signed up for like afour mile race out there and I

(50:55):
ended up winning the racebecause, like I don't know, my
fitness was in a good spot.
It is kind of Florida.
So you are racing, maybe someolder people, but despite all of
that.
Like old people are very fastat running, like I will never.
I will never look at some oldguy and go like, oh yeah, this
guy, it's going gonna be just apiece of cake.
Like no, no, they are.
So fast but, um, it was just aunique scenario where, like,

(51:16):
yeah, some kid from chicago goesto florida and is able to like
run.
So, um, the difference there islike you just don't have like a
race goal, you just have tohave that goal on your own.
I think like you have to havethat mental fortitude of like,
okay, three months from now, Iwant to run a certain time and
can you get that goal done?
Right, because a lot of peopleare driven by race goals and if

(51:39):
they don't have like a goal,they won't run, you know I mean,
what happens when you achievethat goal?

Speaker 2 (51:45):
are you like, like just happy as hell, or like what
is like?
What is that feeling?
That's a weird one too, um, Iguess like because I mean it is
just running, but running islike a huge thing, you know I
mean like if I achieve the goal,it's like it doesn't stop right
, like for me it's like what'sthe next?

Speaker 3 (52:05):
like bar we're gonna break right like it's almost as
if, like when you get to themarathon and you know you're
gonna do well, it's like lessabout the destination and more
about the journey.
I know that sounds generic, butlike I think a lot of people
like doing marathon trainingmore than they do like the
actual race, I think, and that'sa hot take.

(52:25):
I know I'm one of those peoplethat, like if I trained for
eight months and then, like theday before the marathon,
somebody said, hey, listen, youdon't have to run this thing,
I'd be like, yeah, you're right,but I want to because, like, I
put in the work so we're gonna.
I'm not going to be like, oh myGod, the marathon.
No, it's hard to explain, likesome people just like the
process more than the main event.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Do you think it's your mind like being competitive
with you, so like you're gonnado this, like you need to run
this marathon, and then when yourun it, then you're like okay,
next, what's next?

Speaker 3 (52:58):
yeah, that's, that's definitely it.
And then, like, the voice isalways fighting in your head of
like, hey, if you don't do thisthing, like you're really bad or
I don't know, uh, wherever yourmind can go into dark places.
But yeah, I mean like, if Iknow I'm gonna achieve the goal,
I'll be like all cool.
We'll give a fun example.
So like, if I can run the 5K inlike 18 minutes, which was like
fairly fast for me at the time,I was like OK, cool, can we get

(53:19):
that down to 1630 now, like,what do I do to start pushing
those smaller and smallermargins?
Because there will beeventually like a cap.
But I want to find it, you know,because I think a lot of people
, um, I think they take forgranted what, like the human
body or their own body istotally capable of, so, like I

(53:40):
would.
It's one of those things thatdrives you every day too, like,
yeah, you like get out of bedand you're like all right if I
don't.
Like you have so many finitedays that you can do things and
you have so many like finiteheartbeats in your body.
Like why would you like wasteany of that time not trying to
get somewhere in your life, forlike whatever goal you may have

(54:01):
it's cliche, I know.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
No, no, that's inspiring as hell, dude, because
your heart is beating.
It's like put that stuff towork, you know.
Put like, give your heart areason of why it's beating and
that's why people run, that'swhy you run.
I mean, there's a group ofpeople but you could say it's a
cult, you know like you knowit's like, um, you probably like

(54:24):
join facebook groups orsomething and like, uh, social
media probably helped a lot with, like you know, running.
Because she said, even ontiktok someone could say, hey,
I'm gonna run in new york, whowants to run with me?
And then 2 000 people show up.
That's just.
This is yeah those.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
That's like the weird recent trend that like
influencers do.
I I'm sure there's a video outthere.
It's like influencers like turnrunning clubs into like dating
events, which is like weird, Iguess.
It's um, if it works, it works.
But like I I was watching avideo somewhere where, like this
influencer was like hey, I'mgonna go run on the lakefront

(55:00):
path in chicago.
Who's coming out?
And like 2 000 people came outlike what you said, right and um
, it's like crazy to think thatthat's like happening.
But I don't like what thatwould do to like the overall
like run club scene, wherethere's people like who
genuinely want to run and thenthere's also people who like are
the influencers who just wantto run to like meet people for
dates.
You know, it's like kind ofweird I suppose, but if it

(55:24):
brings people out to run, cool.
But is that model sustainableversus like the run club of
people who are like, hey, we'rehere every Thursday, we run this
distance, bam.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Like the run club of people who are like, hey, we're
here every thursday, we run thisdistance, bam, you know,
there's probably like some sortof attraction, though, towards
people when they are running.
I I would assume.
I mean, I don't know, I I'venever been in one of these
groups.
I mean I wish I was as able to.
But I follow this guy, uh,brett cont.
Do you know who he is?
He's from New York and healways goes to these running

(55:57):
groups and he puts it on YouTube.
Shout out, brett, he's a reallycool dude.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
There's a lot of them , for sure, it's hard to keep up
with a lot of them.
But yeah, no, I just don't know, in terms of like for running
clubs in particular, if there'slike a poll for some people or
it's just like a good socialevent.
I think it'd be probably thelatter.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
So you brought up like heartbeats and stuff and I
see what you're wearing on yourarm is that watch?
You know that Apple Watch,everybody has an Apple Watch
nowadays.
I didn't get to use an applewatch so I don't know, like,
what it brings, like what, like,uh, the stats, the statistics

(56:44):
for an apple watch.
Can you explain, like, like youknow, the evolution of apple
watch for running compared toback then?

Speaker 3 (56:52):
sure, yeah, I mean I'm obviously not cool enough
for a Garmin yet, but I meanthat's like the big fight in the
running world is like do youhave an Apple Watch or do you
have a Garmin?
And like apparently you're morecool than you know everyone else
if you have one or the other.
But okay, besides that point,the metrics, I guess with the
Apple Watches it's just helpfulin the long term.
So if you're just tracking yourheart rate or you're tracking

(57:13):
your VO2 max, like allegedly thestatistics that like the Apple
Watch holds kind of gives youthose metrics in real time.
So I don't know if Inecessarily trust all like the
VO2 max stuff, but that's likethe number, that kind of like.
It's kind of like you're inlayman's terms, it's like your

(57:33):
bar of fitness, um, for cardioor endurance kind of sport, and
um, I've always aimed for like anumber above 62, like VO two
max, and sometimes it likevaries because, like on the
Apple watch, it'll tell you likewhat is VO two oh man, I can't
even explain it likescientifically right now, but
it's basically um, I'm sure wecan look this up and I'm going
to botch the wording for it.

(57:54):
Let's look it up.
I'm going to see if I cansummarize it before we find it.
It's like your blood and oxygen, or it's your oxygen per blood
liter.
Maybe I hope we can find itthere.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
It measures how much oxygen your body can use during
exercise.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Yeah, there we go, so it's like aerobic it's yeah,
yeah, that's a good way to putit, I would say so.
It's like the idea of, like youcan take a deep breath, how far
is that deep breath gonna takeyou?
I guess it's a good way to putit because a lot of people when
they run, they're like pantingright so like maybe the vo2 max
is a little bit lower or they'resick or something like that.
But like some people will runand they can take like three

(58:33):
steps inhale, three steps exhale, so like oh yeah, I guess
that's like the principle, yeahso it's the um, how much oxygen
do you need to do the thing?
so there's like a whole equationto it and I guess somewhere
down the line scientists or likerunning physiologists have
decided that any number abovelike 60 or 62, is like intensely

(58:57):
good, and I'm like, okay, cool,let's try to get above 62.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Vo2 max kind of like a resting heart rate a little
bit, because my resting heartrate even right now is like 62 I
guess like resting heart ratewill play into it.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
I think that's more of like um.
It's probably a good indicatorif you didn't have like a vo2
max number.
So like um I think you'veprobably heard this before that
like people who train or like docardio frequently, they'll have
a resting heart rate betweenlike 40 and 60.
So if you like know what it iswhen you sleep or like you're
sitting in a chair, that's agood metric to work off of.

(59:31):
And then if it's like anywherefrom like 60 to 80, like hey,
there's a couple of things there.
Maybe you're not active, maybethere's like a health condition
to consider, you know.
So that's like the metric Ialso use and I like to uh play
the game of like how low I canget my heart rate to go when I
go to sleep and then, like inthe middle of the night, like my
watch will freak out.
It'll be like hey, you got yourheart rate to 38 for like how

(59:52):
do you?
change that?
Like, how do you affect that?
Um?
So I think, um, obviously it'slike the level and the amount of
cardio you do will impact that,but it's also, um, how much
recovery is also involved in theprocess.
So, for example, like if youhad a really intense workout the
day before and like yourcortisol levels are high, like

(01:00:13):
you're not going to have anecessarily a low heart rate, um
, that night you might have likeI don't know if your regular
resting heart rate's like 40,you might be sleeping and it's
now like 45 or 47.
So it's like the body justneeds more beats per minute to
kind of heal the body, pushnutrients uh, push oxygen, like.
I have like really dumb ways oflike kind of summarizing this,

(01:00:34):
but that's one of those things,um, I know, if you do like easy
cardio but you do it for a longtime, um, and you're not like
really causing a massivecortisol spike in your body, I
think that can help lower theheart rate.
So, uh, in my personal examples, like, yeah, I can have like a
regular run, keep it consistent,but if I do like a bike workout
, something that's like lessimpact, something that's a

(01:00:56):
little bit easier on the heart,that's lower.
I'll go to bed that night and Ican get a heart rate of like 39
, 38.
And it's like just really funny.
Phillip, are you an addict?
No, I just like read a lot ofstuff on running and it's just
really interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
It is Like I'm literally in a world that, like,
I'm like dumbfounded, like I'mlike it's like what you're
talking about is superinteresting let's be clear, I'm
not like a scientist or a doctor.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
Don't take my advice.
Entertainment purposes only yes, that's right.
This is just like things I readand things I've speculated and
uh conclusions I've come downbut it's worked for you, right
well, yeah, I mean, it's likeagain.
Like you ask the questions, likeyou run, you break a bone and
you're like, okay, what do I doto not do that again?
And then you go down the rabbithole if you're interested in,

(01:01:46):
like, not breaking your footagain, right.
Um.
Same thing with like muscles.
Like I'm sure, like you know,your brother can tell uh,
everyone here, like you're deadlifting and then you like are
sore for the next week.
Okay, what do we do not to besore for the next week?
Like, do I just keep doing thisthing?
Do I like train a differentmuscle group?
Like, if you're passionateabout it, like you'll, you'll
read about it or you'll you'lltry to find a way do you think

(01:02:09):
technology has like changed theculture of running, or at least
helped?
yeah, I think overall it's um,it's definitely changed it.
I know like youtube is a bigone, so, like you'll see, like
running influencers, likerunning vlogs and things like
that, I'm sure that's inspiringfor people.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Um, in terms of even like the watch, you know like
how it, like you have like astreak with friends and stuff.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Uh, that's a thing too, like where apple will, um,
have like a streak with friendsand stuff.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's a thingtoo Like where Apple will have
like the little circles that youhave to close and they're like,
wow, you closed the move ringlike for the last seven days.
Good job, that's a thing too.
It'll kind of help pump you andkind of keep you focused for
sure.
Because you become obsessedwith closing the rings.
I've been there before and then,like every week, apple will be

(01:02:55):
like okay, you closed 900calories per week, let's push it
up to 1100 now and you're likeokay.
so it's like apple's kind ofpushing you to like get faster
positive reinforcement yeah,pretty much, yeah, but it also
has its kind of setbacks andI've been thinking about this
more.
I can't prove any of it rightnow, just something to think
about, maybe for yourself, maybeyour viewers.

(01:03:17):
You wear the Apple Watch on onewrist for a long period of time
and you start running with it.
This thing is like I don't knowhow much it weighs maybe barely
an ounce Over a long period oftime of your arms swinging.
How is that affecting yourbalance?
And like the size of yourshoulders, like left versus
right, because of this microthing you're doing a thousand to

(01:03:40):
like multiple tens of thousandtimes a day.
You know that's just somethingI'm thinking about.
It's like what is this littlething doing to my overall
physique?
Like, is this impacting myspine in any sort of way?
Like weird, like things I thinkabout.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Do you have a heart attack?
Jesus Christ, oh, impacting myspine in any sort of way, like
weird, like things I think aboutyou are an addict jesus christ.
Oh my god, do you wear it whenyou uh go on a marathon?

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
oh yeah, of course it always dies before the
marathon's over, which upsets me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
It just means you got to run faster, just so it
doesn't die all right, man,before we uh get out of here, I
want to ask you a pretty deepquestion what's the biggest goal
you've ever achieved?
Like, literally, in your mind,you're like I can't believe I
did this, whether it's running,whether it's school.

(01:04:27):
What is something that you areso proud of?

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
it's a deep question.
I got to think about this one.
I don't know if it's like arunning goal necessarily, maybe
more in a work space Cause, likewe got to think of the right
way to frame this.
It would be like you know, inthe running world, or I would
know that the certain goals Iset I will like achieve and

(01:04:57):
they'll be achieved over time.
It's not a matter of if, it's amatter of when, but I think the
goals where you're not sure ifthe if is a guarantee, I think
is the ones that hit you themost.
So I the one that I canimmediately think of was
acquiring a certification incybersecurity from a particular

(01:05:17):
organization, and thiscertification I got was just a
display to myself that as acybersecurity analyst, I didn't
have imposter syndrome in thefield.
So getting the certification tome was like okay, I've done
cybersecurity for this manyyears.
Am I actually decent at this?
Do I?
Am I actually like decent atthis?
Do I know what I'm doing?
Like in this place?

(01:05:38):
Am I just like somebody who'sjust here and like just a drone?
But it turns out like, ok, Iknow what I'm doing in
cybersecurity.
This certification kind ofproves it and it's the next
logical steps after that is liketo get those next pieces.
So like I guess, to elaborateon that more.
Like the physical goals, likethose I think are a matter of if

(01:05:59):
rather than when, or those arewhen rather than if, but like
goals that require me, likesitting in front of a computer
or a book to study for a test,like things that I'm not good at
, like taking tests right, likeachieving those in like a work
environment, I think end upfeeling more impactful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Yeah, oh, wow, yeah it's.
You know it's crazy becauseyou're a runner and, like I, I
feel like everyone who'slistening right now would be
like if they finished a marathon, that would be like one of
their greatest achievements.
But yours is still with yourstudies in school and uh
becoming a person in cybersecurity and, like you know,

(01:06:42):
kudos to you, man.
Like I'm happy that uh changedyour life and I would say you're
living life to the max.
Yeah, yeah, I mean shout out tomy parents for, you know,
believing that education, ispriority number one in your life
.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
And uh, yeah, I mean shout out to my parents, for you
know, believing that educationis priority number one in your
life and uh, yeah, I've kind ofbelieved that ever since dude,
it was very nice having you onthe podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Man uh, it was I.
I learned a lot.
To be honest, with you I didnot even did you learn a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
I didn't expect like I said, I don't run unless I'm
being chased so I definitelylearned a lot today about
running.
She's going to start runningnow.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
It's very fascinating with the food and the calories
and just how your body works.
It seems like you got theknowledge now, but you're still
going to keep learning andlearning and learning.
I hope you get those majorcities, man.
It was cool.
If you have anything to say tothe people, go ahead.
What camera is he?

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
He has camera two, camera two.
Go ahead, camera two, cameratwo.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Yeah, you can shout your Instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Yeah, I mean I do have a YouTube channel.
It's just called PhilipLaToccia Running.
On that channel we have somerun vlog stuff.
We talk about running shoes,just kind of some stuff like
that.
You can follow me on Instagram,Strava, all sorts of other
social medias.
I'm pretty not hard to find,you just need to spell my name,
right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
That's F-I-L-I-P.
Philip, and then last nameL-A-T-O-C-H-A.
We will put that in the link inthe description below, for sure
, and it was great talking toyou, uh, yeah, like you came on
yo, if everybody uh enjoyed thepodcast.
We are on youtube now.
Okay, I know for everybodylistening, we're on youtube life
to the max podcast.

(01:08:28):
Go ahead and subscribe, post anotification bell so you know
when the next episode goes on.
And I'm paralyzed from a neckdown breathing through a machine
, but that doesn't stop me fromfollowing my dreams and doing
what I love to do.
I don't got any excuse, andneither should you.

(01:08:49):
We'll see you guys next time.