State Rep. J.D. Prescott - Indiana Tax Reform, Personal Milestones, and is Everyday a Holiday?!

What happens when International Coffee Day, World Vegetarian Day, and National Sausage Day all fall on the same date? Grab a cup of your favorite brew and join us for a laugh as we dissect these quirky celebrations. Ever wondered why we love made-up holidays like Pie Day? We share our thoughts and even compare the complexity of legislation to making sausage – trust us, it’s a deliciously tangled mess. Plus, we're diving into the world of virtual tours, spotlighting projects for non-profits like the Boys and Girls Club of Wayne County, and dreaming up ways to make statehouse visits more engaging for schools.

Switching gears, we tackle a bold proposal to replace property taxes with a 7% sales tax on services. Imagine eliminating property taxes entirely while still generating billions in revenue for local governments. We'll walk you through the plan, discuss its potential impact on communities, and share our thoughts on gaining bipartisan support. We even get personal, celebrating milestones like 551 days of sobriety and sharing the inspiration we gained from Gary Vaynerchuk’s VeeCon.

To wrap things up, we address pressing local governance issues like township corruption and the financial burdens on renters and homeowners. We explain the legislative process behind tax reform and the importance of public feedback. We also touch on important upcoming changes to ambulance billing practices and introduce a new mental health facility with potential for statewide expansion. This jam-packed episode promises a comprehensive look at quirky holidays, groundbreaking tax proposals, and the human stories that tie them all together.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life Inscripted with Kevin Shook.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome back, jd.
Yeah, nice to be back.
First I want to wish you ahappy International Coffee Day.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
International Sausage Day.
World Vegetarian Day.
It is the kickoff of BatAppreciation Month and it's
Lincolnshire Day, cd Player Day,national.
Green City Day.
Appreciation month.
And it's lincolnshire day cdplayer day, national green city

(00:33):
day and national black dog day.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
That is interesting.
I did not know all that and I'mjust curious how do we get
sausage day and vegetarian dayat the same time?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I don't know.
It sounds like something astate representative would do
make up.
Make up this list of holidays.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Well, there are all kinds of interesting pieces of
legislation that come through.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
So you never know that's wild, it is, that's wild.
What's your favorite made-upholiday?
Made-up holiday.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
I don't know that I've got a favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Not like Christmas or nothing, but a made-up holiday.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
I honestly don't follow them too much.
So maybe Pi Day just an excuseto eat some pie.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
I forget when that is .

Speaker 3 (01:13):
I forget when it is too Well of course, because we
eat sugar cream pie.
Exactly Wix.
Yeah, it's right there in thedistrict.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
In Winchester.
You're married, correct.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
I am and um you're married and correct I am, and do
you celebrate national sweetestday?

Speaker 2 (01:30):
oh, she's just sweet every day, dang, that's.
That is a made-up holiday too.
I did not know that.
One sweetest day.
Yeah, I didn't know that one.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Uh-oh, I hope she doesn't listen to this well, I
just said she's sweet every day,so i'm'm covered right.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
It is wild.
I didn't really think aboutthat today, and I really didn't
think about the vegetarian andthe sausage day being in one day
, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, you know, I guess with me being on, they do
say legislations like sausagebeing made, so you just put a
bunch of shit in it to wrap itup.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
That's right Sell it and repackage it and sell it.
Well, welcome back yeah it's.
It's changed a little bit uphere.
Since you've been improved somethings on the set, things look
good in here, yeah um, I feelit's like there's a lot more
comfortable, yeah, a lot betterconversations come out when you

(02:22):
can look at each other.
Because you know, I think wewere yeah I was trying.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I didn't know where to look.
The last time did I look overhere at jeff I look, I look at
the camera where I'm looking Iknow.
So yeah, you don't have the newchairs together yet still in
these other ones they lookcomfortable, but yet we can't
set it.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, I'll.
Uh, it's been a busy morning.
That was on my list, but I Iwas up at five.
I actually did go to the gymgood for you.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
I say it like I've been in months.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
I remembered where it was at.
You know I started sweating soI left.
Then I had to drop the jeep off.
Yeah, it's just been busy dayalready.
Good, oh, finished up, a well,almost finished up.
Um, you remember the virtualtours?
Yeah yeah, so, um, I'm gettinga lot of those for non-profit

(03:13):
organizations and a lot of it.
Uh, it's a great like this oneI present today at one.
Um, well, we go through otheroptions is for our boys and
girls.
Club of Wayne County.
Oh yeah, it's really cool formarketing, right.
But I think a really goodsolution is being able to take

(03:36):
it and send to donors across thestates that can't come visit so
they can see the facilities andsee where their money's going
and everything else.
So it's pretty cool.
So plug that in somewhere atthe statehouse.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Oh yeah, absolutely yeah, I mean those really are
great.
Great tools, though, where youcan go and see everything in and
get a I mean it really is youget to see every aspect of the
building without actually beingthere.
I mean, from a real estateperspective, it's, I mean it's
great for those buyers that arethat are looking at buying a
house and and a community theydon't live in.
I mean they wouldn't have beenable to do that in the past.

(04:07):
They buy inside on scene reallydon't know what they're getting.
At least now they have kind ofan idea, and then, yeah, all
kinds of uses for that we'vewe've done.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
We started with real estate industry but then you
know we have one live atrandolph county tourism for
tourism purposes, which is supercool because you can literally
like thumb your way through,click on a restaurant, order
pizza.
Thumb your way through, clickon the hotel, book a room, you
know.
And then we have some in adulteducation, ivy Tech, out here,

(04:35):
covid came along that bad C wordand you know students couldn't
visit the campus, so then theytook the campus to them through
a virtual tour.
You could get on the Oculus,see the campus, ask questions.
You could ask questions in thevirtual tour like a Zoom
integrated with the tour itself.

(04:56):
So I talked to Jeff about that,about doing a tour of the
Statehouse.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Oh, that'd be great yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Because you could literally use this for field
trip purposes e-field trip.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
You know everything's e nowadays well, and when you
look at for some schools you'relooking at two and a half, three
hours to get all the way to thestate house from a far corner
of the state.
So by the time they get downthere and then drive back, they
don't have hardly any time there.
So, and and we do live streamall of our, all of our days of
session so they can follow thosein the classroom and so, yeah,

(05:30):
they can do the virtual tour andwe can integrate, yeah, stream
inside the tour, yeah, wherethey can go into the room and
pop, yep, absolutely, talk aboutthat.
Yeah, that's crazy and I seenone that was really neat.
Uh, actually, I was staying indc for some meetings meetings
this summer and you may havedone this with some of the
hotels that you work with toowhere there was a little area to

(05:54):
go by the riverfront, wherethey had a bunch of restaurants
and shops and things clear onhow to get down there, though
based on how it was laid out.
So when you turned on the tv inthe hotel room, what it would
do is it would that first screen, the welcome screen, it would
show a virtual tour of how towalk from the basically a map
and it would guide you down towhere all the entertainment was

(06:16):
and there was then the nextthing that flipped through it
would walk you to the uh, to thenational mall and to other
areas as well in dc wow and itand show you like what bus lines
to get on which uh um subwaysto get on, to get to where you
want to go.
So it was kind of neat how theyutilize that that's.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
That's on the super, super small scale right same
theory, yeah um, and that's whyI told cheryl uh, you know, that
kiosk is really nice at thehotel and then people come in
from outside of the county,outside of the state, they stay
at the hotel, they can get onthat kiosk and see where to eat,
see what parks, where theseparks are.

(06:55):
You know you can go to theracetrack, buy tickets all right
there on that Right, exactly,it's all right there on that
right, exactly.
So, um, what's cool is I cantap in and always update all of
that in real time.
Um, as businesses open, closethings, update, um, so it's huge

(07:16):
.
And what's great is, withtechnology all evolving quicker
than we can, even like ourphones, man, do you remember,
like when we had a flip phone?

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
So could you even imagine wearing glasses that
gets your text messages and yourwatch your YouTube and
everything inside glasses?

Speaker 3 (07:38):
when we had those flip phones.
Well, I remember the GoogleGlass that was supposed to be
the first one, which I thinkthey were just out of their time
.
If they had came out a littlebit later, they probably would
have.
I remember the Google Glassthat was supposed to be the
first one, which I think theywere just doing it at the time.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
If they had came out a little bit later they probably
would have been okay, I know.
And now so Meta dropped theRay-Bans and now they have
another pair that they justdropped last week and I think
they're called Orion's, but I'mnot sure they're getting a
little more stylish.
Well, obviously I wear somesilly glasses, but uh, so I
could just it don't matter whatglasses I have on, but um, where

(08:10):
it's augmented reality?
So text messages, phone calls.
So our phone is going to be putin a drawer along with that
pager that we used to carry.
Did you ever have?
One I never had.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
I never had a pager.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
You weren't cool, were you?
Or you weren't selling drugs.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Actually, I think the pagers might have been a little
before my time.
How old are you?
I'm 33.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Dang bro, I'm 39.
You're state representative andI can't spell representative
man, I need to get with it, Ineed to do something productive,
so educate me then.
So you are Indiana Staterepresentative.

(08:55):
I say it like that because youever make them phone calls and
they're automated and you'rejust screaming representative.
You're trying to get to thatcustomer representative but so
your district 33, which israndolph j delaware blackford,
blackford, a little part ofhenry henry or newcastle, or

(09:16):
just just uh, stony creektownship.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
So I've got one township.
It's um, and the only reason Ireally have that township it was
to keep all of Union SchoolCorporation together and just
needed a few extra in thepopulation.
So that was kind of the naturalfit to keep that community of
interest together and keep UnionSchools together.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Are you all a Blackford?

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Blackford Randolph complete.
I've got two-thirds of Jay anda little over a third of
Delaware land area-wise.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Do you know a really fun fact about Blackford?

Speaker 3 (09:45):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (09:47):
They had a uh, probably one of the only drive
in adult movie theaters nottheaters, but drive-ins.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
Really, I had no clue .

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Look it up.
Huh Well, don't look it up.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, you don't want that.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
You don't want that on your search.
Yeah, you don't want that onyour search history.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
I'll look it up for you my stuff's already and then
I'll show you later on.
That had to have been years ago, oh yeah, in our six years
difference it was in that sixyears.
Yeah, it was years ago.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Years ago.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, now that would be shut down real quick.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Oh yeah, absolutely we wouldn't allow that.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
What towns are in Blackford, Hartford City?

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Montpelier, dunkirk's not in Blackford.
Well, I guess.
Actually there's two streets inDunkirk and Blackford, the rest
of it's in Jay and actually alittle bit's in Delaware County,
so it's right on the corner.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Are you serious?

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, it's right on the corner of Jay Blackford and
Delaware.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Three counties.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, jay, blackford and delaware three counties yeah
, so actually go into jay, orthat go into dunkirk they go
into dunkirk, yeah so how so Irepresent all of dunkirk okay,
um so so really, beforeredistricting I technically had
a sliver of blackford county,because I had two, because I had
all of dunkirk so those twostreets, wasn't?
That was in blackford countythe shady.

(11:04):
They call it the shady side ofdunkirk because shady street
north and uh, so.
So yeah, there's there's wholesix voters in blackford county
that I had before redistricting,but then, once we did
redistricting, I picked up allof blackford county.
So, uh, yeah.
So I like to say, my firstelection in 2018, my very first
election, my first primary.

(11:24):
I had 100% of the vote inBlackford County.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
It was six voters, but I had 100% because I
actually went and knocked ontheir doors.
You could actually take all ofthem out to eat.
So how would like governmentservices work, county services,
ambulances, that type of stuffwork?

Speaker 3 (11:46):
One town would see, see, like three different
services or no, I mean becausethey're going to be.
It's both jay and blackford areutilize iu health for their
services.
So it's going to be the same.
Um regardless there anddelaware iu health is heavy too,
so um, but yeah, I, there issome overlap.
I mean a lot of it is whenyou've got those small rural

(12:08):
communities.
You know how it is.
It's EMS personnel.
They're going to assist outwherever is needed, and bounce
back and forth.
So I mean, you know that betterthan anybody.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
I know I can't get out of it.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Like I left my last paramedic job probably five
months ago, just because, youknow, all of this is just taken
off.
I stay sober and business goeslike this so uh there, so let's
go, and uh um, but then, likesaturday I am, I'm at home and I

(12:44):
still have like a littlescanner or whatever and
neighbors and cardiac arrestsacross the street Run over there
and start pumping on his chest.
So I think it's always going tobe with me.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
Well, it's in your blood.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I mean, it's that sense of service it is.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
And I really appreciate all you've done for
the community.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I like it.
And what's fun is I started inRandolph County in 2005.
I remember my very first runbeing released Cardiac arrest on
a moped.
I'm like, all right, this is adumpster fire already.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
It hits you all at once, doesn't it yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:23):
because you're like well, did he code and then wreck
, or did he wreck and then codebecause he wrecked?
Is it trauma?
Is it medical?
It's wild man, I love it, soI'm pretty passionate about that
kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
So you have you said the sober Is that the 500 days
sober, is that what that standsfor?
Yeah, Five.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
I guess I'm 551,.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
I think yeah, because that's 810.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, so it was kind of cool because the 500th day I
was in LA for VCon.
So Gary Vaynerchuk, the majorsocial media influencer,
marketer, serial entrepreneur,all that good stuff um, then my
cat after him, that guy, so, um,last year he had vcon and look

(14:12):
at lucas oil in indianapolis,right, and what he?
What he does is he brings in awhole smorgasbord of businessmen
, businesswomen, athletes, popculture artists, musicians, just
all of these like veryinspirational and influential
people.
Um, I think so.

(14:33):
I last year, uh, drew barrymorewas there and then, uh, a
rapper named young gravy thatwas like really cool and I
butcher her name every timeBazoma St John.
So she was the chief marketingofficer at Netflix.
She was there.
So you meet all these peopleand what they do is they do all
these John Taffer, bar Rescue,have you.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
I'm not sure you never watched that show.
I haven't watched that one ohman, this guy's wild.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
I'm not very cultured .
I'm going to, you're going to,we're going to get this between
this and our next stop on yourway out of town, roscoe's.
We'll get you cultured.
But just real inspirational,influential people that really
put a twist on everything I'mdoing, and I do a lot of my
stuff based on that.
You know, and so, gary, he ownsthe largest independent

(15:26):
marketing agencies VaynerMedia,and some of his clients are like
Starry, which was Sprite or7-Up or something, and he's
about to buy the Jets.
He's always going, man.
And so then I went to L, to la,this year to see it.

(15:49):
Uh, that's just second time Iever flew commercial, never been
to la, never been to california.
It was just like only secondtime flying commercial.
Yeah, yeah, unless you want tocount layovers for my first time
.
But uh, yeah.
So I just hop on a plane, meand my carry-on I didn't take
another thing bag.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah, never take more than a carry-on.
You don't want to lose a bag.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
No, especially with cameras and stuff in it.
So yeah, I just by myself, manjust roll.
But yeah, so the 500 day wasday one of VCon, which I just
lined up.
That was just really.
It's really weird how it startsto learn, you know, um, but
yeah, and then I think Friday,so I have another podcast Friday

(16:33):
with the sterns.
Okay.
And that's a really cool storyYou'll have to listen to because
that was based on.
She sent the wrong number aprayer, um, and then it ended up
being this guy like four statesaway and he just bought that

(16:54):
phone like 30 minutes prior andhe got that on his phone.
He ended up calling her, theytalked, she's like he sounds
cute and all that.
So they've been on the todayshow and all of this stuff
talking about this story andthey have like six kids, I
believe now, and she's a bigtime influencer on instagram and

(17:15):
, um, just a really sweet, kindfamily.
They're all gone.
I told them to bring all thekids and everything like, but,
uh, yeah, so yeah, it'll be afun one I have to listen to that
that'll be interesting, justreally good, inspirational,
positive stories you know um.
But then I think I'm going tosome 555 thing for my 555th day

(17:38):
but okay, so you got papers.
I, I do, I'm excited.
So what I read on this is aproperty tax repeal and
replacement plan by staterepresentative JD Prescott.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yep, yes, sir.
So, as you know, property taxeshave been kind of the number
one topic facing the GeneralAssembly going into the next
session, with assessments goingup, tax bills being higher for
families and before we kind ofget into the details on this,
you know the biggest, I guess,problem that I have with

(18:15):
property tax.
I think it's most unfair taxthat's out there.
Honestly, In DC we're talkingabout the Democrats are talking
about putting a tax onunrealized gains.
Well, if you really think aboutit, we have a tax on unrealized
gains.
It's property taxes.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well, what would you consider unrealized gains?

Speaker 3 (18:31):
So what I mean by that is you buy property 30
years ago.
It's gained in value but youhaven't realized that gain, you
haven't sold it, you haven'tactually collected that gain but
yet you're paying an increase.
You're paying based on yourassessment, which has gone up
every year.
So you're paying taxes based onthe gains that you haven't
realized.
You haven't actually capturedthat gains.

(18:52):
So, when they're talking aboutin DC.
It's different.
They're talking about it withstocks, but it's really the same
thing with property taxes.
You're talking about payingtaxes on the assessment, which
would be the gain.
So that's one reason I don'tlike property taxes.
The other thing, too anytime wechange with property taxes,
anytime we do any type ofassessment or any I'm sorry any

(19:15):
type of deductions or abatements, what we're doing is we're
pulling from the tax base, we'reshrinking that tax base, and
those that remain payingproperty taxes pay a larger
share of the tax base.
We're shrinking that tax baseand those that remain paying
property taxes pay a largershare of the tax burden year
over year.
So we just keep shifting thattax burden from one group of
individuals to another anytimewe try to do a fix.

(19:36):
So a lot of the discussion thatyou're hearing from the
governor's candidates, fromothers around the state, is
relief for homeowners, which Ithink that's important.
We need to have relief forhomeowners, but there's more
than just homeowners that payproperty tax.
Right here in this commercialbuilding, it'd be taxed at a 3%
tax rate versus the 1% tax cap.
Then you've got the 2%s yourrentals, your agriculture around

(19:57):
.
So what happens is, if weprovide relief for homeowners.
Most of that relief, thosedollars in savings for
homeowners get shifted to the 2%and the 3% brackets, which end
up causing them to pay more.
Plus your higher valuehomeowners that may not be
against the cap, they're goingto pick up more of the tax

(20:17):
burden as well.
So we're really not shrinkinggovernment.
There might be some decreases,but it's minimal.
Really, all we're doing isshifting that tax burden and we
just keep putting a Band-Aid onthe problem and kicking it down
the road.
A few more years and then thenext thing you know, people are
going to be complaining aboutproperty taxes again because
they continue to go up.

(20:38):
We'll put another Band-Aid onit.
So I think the system is broken.
So I think it's time toeliminate the system and replace
it with a different fundingmechanism, because we have to
fund local units of government.
We have to pay for roads,bridges, ems, police, obviously.
So what I'm proposing is tocompletely repeal property taxes
, get rid of all TIF districts,get rid of the assessor's office

(21:01):
in all 92 counties, includingtownship assessors for those
counties that still havetownship assessors.
It would eliminate half of DLGFDepartment of Local Government
Financing at the state level.
And then it would get rid ofreferendums as well any school
referendums.
Those would go away too,because they're based on the
property tax structure, and theway I would replace that would

(21:24):
be a 7% sales tax on services.
So think you go and get youroil changed in your car.
Under current law, you'repaying sales tax on the oil and
the filter.
You're not paying any sales taxon the labor.
So, what I'm doing would beadding sales tax on the labor.
So in fiscal year 2026, if wedon't change any laws we're

(21:44):
looking at collecting $10.6billion worth of property tax
revenue statewide.
That'll go to all local unitsof government.
None of that goes to the state,it all goes to local units of
government.
And with the plan that I'mworking on, if we would
implement the 7% sales tax onservices, any industry that's
already sales tax exempt wouldremain sales tax exempt.

(22:07):
And then I would also exemptmedical services, because we're
also trying to get medical costsdown as well.
So you don't want to add the 7%to the medical.
So exempt all medical services,including nursing home,
assisted living and then alsoeducation.
Most education would already besales tax exempt because most
is nonprofit, but so it wouldjust be adding making sure that

(22:30):
private universities are on thesame.
That way they're on a levelplaying field with the nonprofit
universities as well as publicuniversities.
So by doing that we wouldgenerate between $12 and $15
billion worth of revenue, andfiscal year 26 is what would be
projected.
So obviously that's more thanproperty taxes.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
So okay.
So next property taxes.
Add that 7% services withexemptions, and we're on top.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
We are, we'd actually bring in more revenue, which
I'm not wanting to growgovernment either.
So the reason that I want tocollect more in those first
couple of years is we need tobuild up a healthy surplus in
that account.
So we collect property taxes inthe rear.
So right now this year we'repaying the 2024 payable.
It's really your taxes from 23.

(23:24):
You pay property taxes a yearbehind and with this you're
paying it a year in advance oryou're paying it basically as
you go, not necessarily inadvance.
You got, so we're going to startcollecting and if this would
pass in 25, we would startcollecting on july 1st of 26.
So you'd be collect for sixmonths, but then payments would

(23:45):
not start building out of thatfund until January.
So you'd have six monthsbasically runway ahead of time.
You'd still be local units ofgovernment would be operating on
property taxes still in 26.
But then going forward it'd beon the sales tax.
So once you created a healthysurplus in that account, then I
would drop the rate a quarterpercent at a time until you hit

(24:08):
equilibrium of what you need toactually fund local units
government and I also thinkyou're going to see tremendous
economic growth come into ourstate.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
So you drop the rate of that 7%.
Sales on services.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yep a quarter percent at a time once certain economic
thresholds are met and we'dallow government to grow at the
rate of inflation.
So going forward that wayyou're still having more funds
for local units of government,as obviously inflation,
everything else, all thedifferent factors that go in
year over year and thedistribution is key on this.

(24:41):
So that's where a lot of thefocus I think is going to be
during the discussion.
Roughly 40% of your propertytax dollars statewide goes to
schools for their operationfunding for their building
maintenance.
So I take 40% of the revenuegenerated on sales tax on
services, put it into a school'soperation fund.
Those dollars would follow thestudent, just like what we do on

(25:02):
the education fund.
So that's pretty simple.
That's an easy formula to workout On cities and on counties
it'd be two different bucketsbut it'd be a similar formula
for each.
I'm looking at a combination ofmiles of roadway and population.
That way you get into a fairfunding distribution between a
rural county and an urban county.

(25:23):
That way you've got some paritythere.
I'm still working out thedetails on that formula but
legislative services agenciesworking with me on that and I'll
be putting out a county bycounty, a city by city breakdown
on a school run report onexactly how this bill, if it was
to go through, what that wouldlook like from a funding

(25:44):
perspective from each local unitof government.
And one thing that I am alsolooking at too, with generating
that additional revenue, thiswould actually allow local units
government to capture thecircuit breaker losses that
they've had in the past.
So I would be replacing thecircuit breaker losses, but then
after that they could only growat the rate of inflation.
Now explain the circuit breakerlosses, but then after that

(26:04):
they could only grow at the rateof inflation.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Now explain the circuit breaker losses.
Is that tax caps years ago?

Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, from the tax cap.
So on the property taxes, whatthey do is they set the rates.
If the rate is above 1%, that'scapped.
It goes into a circuit breakerloss.
So from a homeowner'sperspective so that is the if
the rates above that 1% localunits, the government are going
to see a circuit breaker loss onanybody that's under that 1%

(26:32):
rate.
If it's over 2%, then theywould see a circuit breaker loss
for anybody that's above the 1%plus the 2%.
Plus there's another circuitbreaker loss at the 2%, same for
the 3%.
So if you have a higher ratethan the tax cap, that's where
that circuit breaker comes intoplay.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Gotcha.
That makes sense.
That's exciting.
I think that would be huge.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
We'd be the first in the nation.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Nobody else is talking about this, no other
state.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
No other state.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Now LG Susan, she's been up here.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Love her to death.
And she was talking about, youknow, along the same kind of
lines, getting rid of income tax, which sounded great, you know.
So it's really cool if,obviously, there's always going
to be taxes, Absolutely, Becausewe need money for roads, we

(27:26):
need money for um government,but, uh, government entities, Um
so, but it is kind of excitingto hear when, when there is a
cut in in, that makes you know,cause that that's going to
spread it out a little bit.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
Absolutely Cause not everyone owns a home but
everyone does go get that oilchange Absolutely so.
So yeah, everyone pays servicesof some sort, right, and?
And so what you're doing isyou're you're broadening your
taxing base across all citizensthroughout the state plus
non-citizens.
You're going to get touristscoming in to the state as well,

(28:03):
that also going to purchaseservice type, uh, goods, and,
and then all and then, as wellas illegal immigrants now, what
about?

Speaker 2 (28:12):
we'll touch on that a little bit.
Um, what about utilities?

Speaker 3 (28:18):
so utilities are already taxed, so so any
industry that's already taxedthat, that would uh, that would
not change there wouldn't be anew tax on top of that If
they're already.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's where I was going with that, because I was
like, well, let's you know,we've got 10 utilities going on,
yeah, yeah, so there there youalready pay a sales tax on
utilities and then on thegenerating of utilities.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
the way that works in the back channels they there's
a specific tax tied to theutilities within that, so this
would not put an additional taxon utilities okay I like it, man
.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
I I just like it because it spreads it out.
It spread, it spreads out theexpenditure.
It'll be a huge incentive foruh home buyers, especially first
time home buyers, I meaneverybody.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
I mean you actually get to own your home after it's
paid off.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
I know because, like now, you know we talked about
this at the picnic Uh, thegovernment owns your home If you
, if you always have to pay onit.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, you're running the ground, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Right, so, um yeah, what's the chances you can pull
this off?

Speaker 3 (29:19):
So I've got an uphill battle, just to be honest, and
just from the fact that I amliterally proposing to upset the
apple cart on how we fund localunits of government.
Now I will say, as I've beenout talking, I've talked to the
Speaker House, I've talked toour Ways and Means, our
Republican caucus on Ways and.
Means.
Everyone seems to be open to it.

(29:39):
They're asking a lot ofquestions and I think the
biggest thing from all thedifferent members and the
general assembly as I've as Italked to there anyone's
hesitant to support a plan thisbig until they see how it's
going to affect their community.
And that's a fair point,because if somebody came to me
and said, okay, we're going tothrow this taxing structure
outside and restart withsomething else, the first

(30:01):
question I'm going to have ishow does this affect my
community?
Right, I want to see how.
I want to see how the numberswork.
So until they see it on paper,I think that is going to be the
turning point when I can startgetting buy-in.
Now I do have some key membersthat I'm working with on this.
Senator Alexander he's.
He's working right alongside mein the on the Senate side.
Senator Gaskell's on board aswell.

(30:22):
I've got some other state repsup in the northeastern part of
the state that's working with meon this.
We've got a small coalition.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Do you have any bipartisanship support?

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Not yet and, to be fair, I haven't approached too
many members on the minorityside.
Yet but I anticipate that wewill get some with this.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
But you never know I mean, and you don't know, you
absolutely do not know inpolitics, um, I think so what
would would this be like?
A light switch comes on, lightswitch goes off on the same day
no it.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
So here's the way it would work.
So starting in uh, so say, I'mjust making the assumption right
old assumption, say this passesin 2025, uh, this next general
assembly session on upon passage, no new tiff districts could be
created.
That's key, because we wouldn'twant communities to go out and
starting a bunch of tiffdistricts as they're getting
ready to go away.
Uh, then calendar year 2025would be the last year of

(31:22):
assessments, property taxassessments, and then those will
be payable in 26.
So 26, calendar year 26 wouldbe the last year of property
taxes payable, so it'd be thelast year you pay property taxes
.
Then in also in 2026, we wouldstart collecting sales tax on
services on july 1.
Okay, so, so there would be sixmonths where you're paying both

(31:45):
property taxes and sales tax onservices, but really you're
paying the previous year'sproperty taxes.
And then on uh 2027, on july,on january 1st.
That's when we would start umsending out the funds from the,
from the sales tax revenue, tolocal units of government.
So, starting January 1st of2027, that's when local units of

(32:06):
government would be relying onsales tax on services to fund
local government operations.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Man, that's wild, so okay, so obviously you know me
very well.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
You know how my brain works.
I'm like ding ding, ding, ding,ding, squirrel hey coffee yeah,
and there's a lot of details tothis, so there's a lot coming
at you I know I love it,especially if we can come out
ahead, because?

Speaker 2 (32:36):
So explain this to me , educate me on this, on a local
city government where doestheir general fund come from?

Speaker 3 (32:46):
so their general fund mainly comes from property
taxes.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
You've also got a local option income tax that it
could go into as well, or theycould fund that as well, but
it's a combination of propertytax and local option income tax
so that would switch over tosales tax on services, and would
that be sales tax on servicesin their city?

Speaker 3 (33:09):
No, so it would not work if you did it.
If you're collecting it locally, it's got to be all go, be
collected statewide and thendistributed back out.
Okay.
And, and the reason being, lookat how many small rural
communities don't havenecessarily the service base in
their community but, like inRandolph County for example,
there's a lot of times whereI'll be coming down and hiring a

(33:30):
service out of Richmond orhiring a service out of Muncie,
but yet I'm still paying in,right.
So that's why it has to becollected statewide and then
distributed back out.
And what this does is now itmakes from an economic
development perspective which isa whole other discussion we're
going to have at the Statehousethe future of IEDC and economic
development.

(33:50):
But what it does is it forcesIndian economic development to
look at everything from astatewide approach versus a
regional approach.
Because now it behooves WayneCounty for Blackford County to
do well.
It's good for Randolph Countyif Marion County does well,
because we're all in this boattogether, right, because it's

(34:10):
all generating revenue statewide.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Okay, so what's the?
So going to EDC, mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
So going to uh edc well, we'd still need 92
counties of them to I thinkthat's a discussion that's worth
having, with or without thisbill, to be honest with you, um,
but but I think that's mainly alocal, local level.
So now it would change theirtools right, because mainly what
local economic developments dois give out tax abatements.

(34:42):
Well, there's no tax abatementsbecause everybody's abated at
this point.
There's no property taxesperiod, if this passes right.
So, and also business personalproperty taxes.
I don't know if I said thatearlier, I'm also repealing
business personal property taxesas well.
So no tax on equipment either.
So that does.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Hold on, I'm going to order some iPads.
I need 20 more iPads.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
But so, yes, that kind of takes away an incentive
that economic development has.
I don't necessarily say that itgoes away, but I think it would
be restructured, There'd bedifferent tools and really
economic development at thatpoint within a county it'd be
funded directly out of thisgeneral fund operations.
There might be differentincentives and things they can

(35:25):
do, but really if you look ateconomic development offices,
especially at the county level,when when they got started there
was a handful of them thatreally went out there and around
the state and really brought inbusinesses, One was right
before you.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah absolutely that man Yep, he really worked it.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yeah, he worked it and he did a great job, yeah.
But now all 92 counties hastheir own economic development
office.
We've got the state economicdevelopment office and it's.
It comes down to thephilosophical question of how
much should the government begetting involved in these
business deals and are webringing in jobs?

(36:07):
Are we just trading from onearea to another and passing them
back and forth?
Are we really doing any goodwith them?
And I think that's a genuinedebate that we can look into and
I honestly don't know theanswer to that completely
without looking in.
I think it's, and I think itdepends on the community you're
in and what they're doing.
So I think the role of economicdevelopment is going to change

(36:30):
over the years.
There might.
If you're, if you continue todo the same thing, you get
behind, you get complacent.
So, you constantly have to beevolving, so I don't want I'm
not saying that we need to getrid of all economic development.
I'm saying I'm saying we needto restructure it and think
differently and think of newways to bring in business and I
think this is a way that bringin business Cause.
Can you imagine from thebusiness community's perspective

(36:51):
to go to a state and not haveany real property or business
personal property tax?

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Well, and that's, that's the, I don't know.
I just see that as the numberone challenge of an entrepreneur
whether it's a solopreneur orit's a CEO with a team of 300,
is taxes.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yep Well, and you pay property taxes, whether you
make money or not.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
It's due every year income taxes it's based on it's
based on the revenue you bringin.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
This one is the one tax that you pay, whether you
make money or not, even with asales tax.
You can only pay sales tax ifyou have money to to pay for the
good, pay for the service,right?
So if you're making less money,you're going to pay for less
services and goods.
So so that's so.
It makes it a more fair tax.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
I think it's pretty exciting and kind of going back
to I know Susan talked about,you know she was talking about
there's a lot of state agenciesthat don't really need to exist.
I agree and I see this.
So you know, I was a cityemployee for Richmond Fire
Department and I've seen this asa catastrophe at the bottom

(38:08):
because it's all of thesegeneral funds, not all of them.
A lot of these general fundsare so underfunded to where a
lot of public safety entitiesare understaffed.
So not only are we providingless than adequate services at
the, you know, at the bottom oncity government, um, we're also

(38:30):
overtaxing these people, thehuman beings in these positions.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
And that's why I'm kind of like when I see this.
I'm like 7%, go 14, and thenincrease these general funds.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Well, there's actually a way to help out with
public safety without increasingthe 7%.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
So there's another aspect to this, yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
So right now there's an option for local units of
government to take 1.25 percentand add it onto their lit tax,
their local option income tax,so you can have an additional
one and a quarter percent thatis supposed to be for property
tax relief, so they can use thatlocal option income tax to
lower their property tax rates,to give them to spread that out,

(39:16):
to basically shift that taxburden from property tax to
income tax.
So if there's no property taxes, there's no reason to have that
extra one and a quarter percentof local option income tax,
right, because it's not going toproperty tax relief, because
there's no property taxes.
So what I am this is not in thebill yet, but it's something I
am Proposed.

(39:36):
I am working on exactly how Iwant to do it.
But what I'm looking at doingis taking that 1.25% and
allowing part of that to be usedfor public safety police, fire,
ems to allow them to keep that1.25% as a local option income

(39:58):
tax.
So I'd probably take 1% of thatand put it towards police, fire
and EMS and have that quarterpercent left over and allow that
as an extra option for schoolsfor additional school funding,
if a county would want to dothat, because the schools are
losing the referendum ability,which I'd make the argument that
the schools have enough marginto operate within budget within

(40:19):
the budgets they have and don'tneed that referendum ability,
which I'd make the argument thatthe schools have enough margin
to operate within budget withinthe budgets they have and don't
need that referendum ability,but that is a something that I
have in my back pocket as a asnegotiating piece.
to be honest, you always have tohave plan.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
A, B, C, A point.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
B Right.
Right.
So that can be broken down alittle, down a little.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
there's different ways you can do it, but that is
one way you could directspecific funds uh to to boost
public safety dollars okay,because, um, I see it, I see it,
uh, you know, on the, on thevery bottom, on the local level,
um, where they're kind offorced to do things for profit,

(41:01):
uh, on one side of the street,yeah, like the fish fries or the
other things.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Well, that yeah, they're like to raise money the,
the ems services.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Oh yeah, I'm sorry, fire has to go out and make a
bunch of money to sustain thefire trucks, not really the
ambulances.
So, um, and they've had to dothat.
Um, I know Union City kind ofdid that first, where then they
started taking salaries out ofthat non-reverting fund because

(41:30):
it wasn't part of their generalfund, it wasn't part of their,
and now I think Winchester'sdoing that?

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, they are.
I have a lot of communitiesthat are starting to do that, I
know.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
So it's kind of like well, how can we like, does
Indiana really need 92courthouses, 92 county Like, is
there some consolidation thatcan be done to kind of alleviate
some of this?

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah, and I think one area that always comes up is
township governments, whetherthat could be combined or not.
And, to be fair, I've alwaysbeen to the aspect.
I always want to keep townshipgovernments, whether that could
be combined or not.
And and, to be fair, I'vealways been to the aspect.
I always want to keep townshipgovernments, um, because they're
, they know the people in thearea, especially when you're
talking about poor relief, whenyou're talking about the, the
fire departments volunteer firedepartments.
it's kind of the identity, um,that there are some areas where,

(42:18):
uh, there's abuse, though inother parts of the state, so
it's.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
What's expenditure?

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Yeah, yeah, some expenditures.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Some fraud taking place.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Oh, whoops, oh yeah, so that is one thing that if
we're going to keep townshipgovernments, we need to make
sure that everybody's operatingthe way they should be.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Bro, did you see that the sheriff that was on 60 Days
In know 60 days in on a and ethat television show?

Speaker 3 (42:45):
yeah, the one down in southern indiana.
Yeah, that's crazy isn't it?
And that was all the townshipmoney yeah, it was township
money, county money, um, and Idon't know all the details of
the case, but I I know enough toknow that he's.
He did a lot of inappropriatething and I I honestly am not
sure how he's the only onethat's gotten wrapped up on.
I don't see how somebody couldpull that much fraud off over

(43:08):
that long a period of time andnobody else caught on.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
It took down his wife , it took down his daughter, him
.
I bet, man, that there's moreconnections.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Well, he was really close friends with our governor.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Our current Mm-hmm, really Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
He was in state party for a while.
I don't know, it's just a weird.
It's wild bro.
Yeah, I don't know, there'sjust a Pull back the curtains on
some people.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
I'm not saying governor has anything to do with
that.
I'm not saying governor hasanything to do with that.
I'm not saying that, but he waswell-connected is what I'm
getting at.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Those are the people you got to watch sometimes, yeah
, so I don't know.
Those are the type of people Itry to steer clear of.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
I know You'll end up on Netflix series.
No, no, no, no.
You know that's going to be aNetflix series.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Oh, I'm sure it will be.
I mean, or some sort of serieslike that, right, whether it be
Netflix or Hulu or one of themright.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, that was crazy.
A lot of crazy things havehappened lately.
It's wild.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
There was a township trustee.
This was a Democrat up in AdamsCounty that just got busted for
embezzling funds as well.
So that's what I'm talkingabout with township governments.
They're great when they workgood and I think in a lot of our
area.
They do work really good, soyou want to protect that.

(44:31):
But at the same point, wecannot allow for a system where
there's been multiple abuse indifferent parts of the state
time and time again.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
So I think that's one of the things that have to be
looked at because the money goesmissing, then these taxes just
have to increase exactly to makeup for it, exactly.
You know, um, that's reallyexciting.
I'm, I'm excited.
What's the next step?

Speaker 3 (44:56):
so this is house bill 33 uh, so there's not a bill
number yet on this.
Oh so, so I'm in the I'm in theearly stages now.
So what I'm doing is I'm stillin the process of drafting the
bill, finalizing the the detailsof it, but since this is such a
big proposal, I'm trying to getout and talk about it early and
build.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
I mean the way you explained it.
Um, I think it'd be hugebecause it spreads it out a
little more, um, and it's notgoing to add an extra tax to
something that's already beingtaxed.
I think it'd be huge because itspreads it out a little more
and it's not going to add anextra tax to something that's
already being taxed.
And I mean, I don't know whatpercent.
Do you know the percentage ofpeople who rent versus

(45:36):
homeowners?

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I don't off the top of my head.
I can pull that number up, butI don't off the top of my head.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
So that's just that's another thing.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
But renters pay as well in property taxes and they
pay at a higher rate thanhomeowners.
So renters oh yeah, I didn'tknow that, yeah because
landlords pay a 2%, they're inthe 2% property tax caps.
So they pay the 2% rate versusthe 1% rate.
You know the landlords aren'teating that out of their own
pocket.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
They're passing that on, I know.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
So the property tax system actually charges renters
more than it does homeowners,and especially when you take and
those homes don't have any ofthe deductions on them either,
like you've got yourstandardized homestead deduction
, if you've got the 65 and olderdeduction, if you've got your
military deductions, yourgeothermal, I mean there's all
kinds of deductions that areavailable for homeowners

(46:25):
property that is not eligiblefor those, those rental
properties man, I'm justthinking about a couple of my
buddies.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Um, I have some really wealthy friends I almost
feel like they write me off ontheir taxes as like their
charity work I've no.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
I know some of those too right like why are you
hanging out with?

Speaker 2 (46:43):
me.
Why are you letting me comearound?
I think I'm like charity worker, um, but you know they have um
gosh.
One of them probably has 50 umproperties, rental properties
throughout richmond, um, wellinto cincinnati and everywhere
else.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
But I'm just thinking like whoa but but you know he's
passing on that that uhincrease to the landlord.
I mean any business person youhave to.
I mean we stay on top.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
That's what we do, I know well, I have a, so I live
and own um or a new res mortgageowns it really.
But a three bedroom on a slab,nice place on the West side, and
that's you know.
I pay like a 400 for mortgageand that's escrow insurance tax,
everything 400.
But if I was to rent it out,everyone's like, oh, eight $900

(47:34):
to rent it out.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
But your taxes are going to go up too, because then
you lose your homestead.
On it it'd be yeah, yeah, it'swild.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
It's wild.
What, what it what that woulddo?
Um?
So I was.
So I looked around.
I was looking at some otherstuff and I found this survey, a
2024 survey.
So were these.
So is this like um?
A survey that you did amongst?

Speaker 3 (48:04):
yeah, so that survey.
So each year, each beforesession, we do legislative
surveys and, uh, the way theprocess works on the surveys, um
, it's each caucus does one.
So the democrats, all themembers do one, are, all of us
republican members do one.
We've get, uh, so our caucus,we, we have a list of I don't

(48:26):
know, 85 to 100 questions thatwe can choose from, and so I go
through the the list of surveyquestions and I pick the ones
that I think are pertinent tothe district or the session
that's coming forward.
On the short session ones, I tryand pick ones that I think may
be both pertinent that year plusthe following year, because by

(48:51):
the time we get in and get this,get the survey data back, we're
kind of late into sessionalready.
So I try and pick somethingthat can kind of give me some
guidance, not not just for thatsession but moving forward as
well, and then in the longsession we get them back a
little bit sooner.
But it's not just the questionsI actually get, I mean the

(49:14):
survey questions itself, thosequestions that are on there.
That data is important to kindof give me a pulse of where the
district is.
It's non-scientific, it's justwhoever turns them back in but,
um, but just as important arethe answers on those questions.
There are all the comments thatcome back, so I get, uh, I
leave a comment all the like,why yeah?

Speaker 2 (49:33):
you know like it's, I love it.
Uh, all of them you know, knowum again, straight ticket voting
, that's, that's always beenhuge Cause.
I think that if you, if you canfully, if you vote straight
ticket every time withoutknowing who you're voting for,
and knowing like man becauseI've seen on a local level.

(49:54):
I've seen someone flip DemocratRepublican to Democrat, like in
three years.
So it's like you need to knowwhat that person is actually,
what their beliefs are, whatthey're wanting to do.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Um well, and then the other thing was straight ticket
voting your County council atlarge seats where you pick two
out of three or pick, I mean,depending on it, doesn't even
pick those, right it doesn'tpick those, so you have to.
so, even if you vote straightticket, you have to go back down
and select those individually.
Or school board races, whichare still technically
nonpartisan, even though we allknow they're partisan.

(50:30):
Everyone has a politicalviewpoint, so but so those seats
as well, you have to go downand individually select those.
There's a lot of voters thatdon't realize they think they
voted.
They voted straight ticket.
They think that's all they needto do.
They don't.
They didn't realize they didn'tvote for the County council
members or the school boardraces.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
So so yeah, breathe your ticket, so they're they're
all under voted.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
So, uh, I mean I pretty much vote straight ticket
Republican, but I go throughand check each box individually.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
I want to see.
Make sure.
Kevin Shook didn't slide in aspresident, that's great, but one
of them, you know firstresponders administering drugs
like Narcan.
Should these patients beinvoluntarily committed to a

(51:22):
certified addiction treatmentprogram?
Absolutely, you know.
I've seen it firsthand manytimes and then I've had family
that many times could have usedit Myself, I could have used it
with alcohol.
But so what were some of thecomments on that?

(51:43):
Did you were they?
Because people you'll havepeople um, talk about them, them
damn druggies and all thatstuff.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
But and not understand, not be empathetic
and understand addictions andstuff but yeah, so I'm not
having any comments that arejumping out to mind on that one
specifically off the top of myhead, except for the fact that
they pointed to relatives andstuff that they knew.
Just similar stories like that,but I mean that was the gist of

(52:13):
the comments on that onespecifically.
We did have a regional mentalhealth facility that we're we're
starting in dullware county.
It's going to be the first oneand it'll cover wayne county.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Now, who's that through or can you talk?

Speaker 3 (52:26):
it's actually with the county and the state is
starting it and it's really um,yes, it's going out at the
dullware county justice center.
It's, it's not.
It's on the same campus, butit's a separate building, so
it's, so it's you're not in jail, yeah, so it's separate from
the Justice Center, but it's onthat same campus, so it's a
county facility.
That state is.
It was.

(52:48):
One of the funds that we had inthis last state budget was for
these regional mental healthfacilities, and the first one
that got awarded is our region.
Wayne County is actuallyincluded in that, so it'll
benefit Wayne County as well,even though it's not here, and
so I did have some comments onthat, specifically because that
was being established, and so Ihad some people thanking us for

(53:09):
getting that through andapproved.
So that was a few of thecomments that we had and that
broke ground about a month ago.
So, yeah, the groundbreakingstarted on that Construction's
underway.
So, I'm looking forward to aribbon cutting coming up soon.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
That'll be exciting.
Let me know when that happens.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Yeah, we'll do.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
I'd love to come up to here.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
And we really hope that this could be modeled
around the state, in differentregions around the state.
So that's the plan and so it'sstarting off with, I think,
20-something beds on each sideand rooms, but then there's
actually the ability for it tobe added on to and expanded as
well, if it's successful.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
So do you know the process yet on intake I do not
yet.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
They're still setting up those.
I know they've got a plan and aprocess but on the day-to-day
details I have not been involvedto that extent.
I mean just the general conceptis I'm working on it at a high
level overview, helping themsecure those state funds and get
that the locals are actuallyrunning it.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
From that standpoint forward, that because we have,
you know, like in Richmond, wehave to stay hospital and then
we have a, which is well they do.
Meridian used to have anaddiction center out there, but

(54:33):
you would have to jump throughlike 13 hoops before you could
become a patient, so somebodycouldn't just be taken there.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
Right.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
By ambulance or just taken there by POV.
So that's always been theproblem and that's where people
usually fall off.
So we would transport from thestreet an overdose and, um, get
them to the hospital and then alot of times they'll sign out

(55:05):
before we even get done with ourreport.
So in the hospital is not goingto do anything yeah they're
going to tell you like, oh,there's a treatment center in
indianapolis or something likethat, but they're not.
They're not going to doanything.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
So with this one it's not part of this facility but
it's in collaboration.
So the city of Muncie is alsodeveloping a one-day it's just a
24-hour treatment facility andfrom the collaboration
standpoint is they can thosethat meet the criteria to get

(55:40):
admitted for that long-termtreatment and care for the
mental health, for the regionalmental health facility.
I think they're working on it.
I know they're working on aprocess as to how to utilize
that quick-term, that short-termtreatment, the 24-hour hold
that muncie has in theirfacility, because it's it's
geared towards just the 24 hours, but how to properly vet and

(56:04):
roll those over into uh, who,who meets the right?
criteria and can fit into that,into that long-term mental
health and it'll be anothershift, like kind of your tax
shift.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
It'll be another shift in a way because you know,
and that in that um survey theytalked about, you know, um,
because it costs so much toprovide that narcan but now, if
it's involuntarily, the staff,the nursing staff, the facility,
all that will have to be fundedabsolutely.

(56:37):
So, um, no, that was prettycool and I know I sent you a
message that kind of ties in tothe mobile integrated health Yep
.
I sent you the 1385 house billthat Brad Barrett just signed
and I tried to make sense of itbecause it didn't make a whole

(56:59):
lot of sense to me and I didn'tknow if.
Now I know, you know, I thinkevery state representative has
their own little niche.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
He's a physician, so healthcare's always going to be
his niche.
Yep, but I wanted to see whatyour take was on it.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Yeah, so I mean the intent of that bill was to stop
surprise billing on ambulanceservices.
It was at least one of theaspects of it.
So it capped the rate thatcould be charged to 400%.
I had to refer back to my notes.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Yeah, that's fine bro , I'm not this topic.
I know enough to be dangerousabout to's.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Fine, bro, I'm not uh this uh topic.
I know enough to be dangerousabout.
It's not my area of expertise,so I trust guys like Brad and
others that are in the industry.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
He was going to join us but, I guess he's.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
It's our time where he's uh, but that, that was the
what was the main part.
Also, there was a provision tomake sure that local EMS or the
EMS services are being paid on atimely manner by Medicaid
Medicare on those governmentpayments coming back, so that is
supposed to get paid within 30days now.
So those are the two primaryfactors that was in that bill

(58:11):
was to try and help with thatsurprise billing perspective.
From the out ofof-networkbilling is what was happening.
When you have a car wreck youdon't have an option to ask is
this an in-network ambulance, isthis an out-of-network
ambulance?
Just get me to the hospitalright.
If you're bleeding out, youdon't care, just get me there.
Well, what was happening?

(58:32):
In some cases, providers werecharging extremely high rates
for out-of-network ambulanceservices.
It was just not fair to people,to be quite frank.
So that was part of trying torein that in a little bit, okay.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
So the ambulance service not charging as much.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Yeah, so so it still allows.
Uh, so the cap the rate at 400%of the published rate for the
ambulance service.
Um, so whatever the in networkrate was it could the outer
network rate could be 400%.
The end network that's stillquite a bit higher.
Right, so they were there weresome charging more than that.

(59:16):
Um, at least that's the way Iunderstand it.
So, so it at least limits itit's wild, because we already
pay tax yeah to have thoseservices provided yeah so, but
but I'd ask, I'd ask doc barretton a little more detail.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
I tried to give him a call on the way in, but I think
he's on vacation, so well, it'swild because I mean, for one,
he mentioned mobile integratedhealth, which has nothing to do
with an ambulance, mobileintegrated health and when he
signed it he had the RichmondFire Department in the
background when he did thesignature, which didn't make
sense because their MIH programjust went poof.

(59:52):
Mih is huge, it needs to beeverywhere, not ran by fire
departments, because they don'tunderstand it.
Um, so, you know, my lastposition was a County service,
putnam County, and they were thefirst County Um, I do believe,
the first County in the statethat actually, if you're a

(01:00:14):
County resident of Putnam County, your insurance, your Medicaid,
your Medicare, all of that'sgoing to be billed.
You're not, so the rest getswritten off and if you don't
have any of that insurance, youstill don't get a bill Because
they've seen it as you pay taxesfor this already.

(01:00:35):
Where we're at, when we come tofire department agencies, we're
trying to make money.
We see ems as extra moneysource, not emergency medical
services.
So that's where this bill, allthis billing issue comes,
because we're trying to makethat money to pay for firemen,
to pay for fire trucks, firestations and and I think I may

(01:00:59):
have misspoke I said 400% of thein-network rate.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
I think it's 400% of the Medicare Medicaid rate.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I got it right here At the 400% of published rate
for ambulance servicesestablished under the Medicare
law.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Yeah, yeah, so.
Yeah, so it was that.
So it would be lower than thanthe than the in-network rate or
it should be.
It wouldn't be lower than thein-network rate, but it'd be
lower than 400 the in-networkrate.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
It'd be 400 the medic medicaid rate and when I was
closer to this I've seen, uh, Ifelt like every year, medicare,
medicaid, try to do stuff to getout of pain, absolutely Like,
okay, here's my Saturday, so I'mnot employed.
I'm still licensed as aparamedic.

(01:01:46):
I'm not employed, but so I'mjust a bystander.
That got this dude's pulse back.
I got more praise right Now ifI was an employee the first
thing, they're going to say isget signatures and that's a
medicate.
That's are you?
That's why there's so wellbetween that.

(01:02:06):
And then emts and paramedicsmake a fraction of what firemen
make when it's not fire based.
You know, right, um, on top of,you just saved a life.
The first thing you hear is didyou get signatures right from
your boss?
You know so.
It's a very poor morale, butmedicare, medicaid has been huge

(01:02:29):
on that, on everything.
Like you got to make sure youreyes are dotted, your T's are
crossed and your signature.
So it's like an ongoing joke inEMS.
Like, dude, you could save 30babies from a house fire.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
But the first thing they're going to ask you is did
you get signatures?

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
Yeah, and that's not what we want either, and with
Medicaid Medicare it's adouble-edged sword, because we
need to make sure that theproviders are getting paid
adequately for their servicesand can take care and make sure
we take care of employees, butwe also have this growing
Medicaid expense that's noweating up 18% of the state

(01:03:13):
budget and growing rapidly.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Because everyone can get on Medicaid.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Well, and that's so.
I have been the lone no votenumerous times on expanding
Medicaid access for differentservices, and what services?

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
are covered, like you've been against it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Yeah, I voted no.
I voted against expanding theeligibility and reason being
twofoldfold.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
one seems like you can get anything right, and yeah
, that's why more people sit athome exactly so.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
So the the government handouts again the entitlement
program.
So I'm against expanding those.
But also I've seen this growingproblem coming with medicaid
funding.
Everybody's just scratchingtheir head wondering how'd we
get here with it eating up 18 ofof the budget.
But yet we keep expanding it, alittle bit at a time, year over
year.
It's like what do you expect ifwe keep expanding it?
You got to expect to have abudget crisis at some point.

(01:04:10):
I mean, if you get, passes itout but yeah, if you're the no
vote on that, well, you votedagainst aunt Sally down the
street because she needed thoseservices.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Well, no, it's not against that individual
situation, I voted against AuntSally's son living in her
basement because he can getMedicaid easy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
But you know how politics are there's always the
negative mailers, right, there'salways the negative attacks and
you could say that with anyvote I mean anybody that has a
voting record you could find anegative mailer to run against
them, because it's all aboutperspective and how you look at
each individual situation.
People take things out ofcontext all the time.

(01:04:54):
But, when you look at bigpicture.
We cannot continue down thepath we're on.
We've got to rein the spendingand and but at the same point,
make it to where those that arepart of the program, those
eligible service that do need tostay part of the program those
reimburse.
Reimbursement rates are arehigh enough to where that
option's available because ifyou don't.
If you're not reimbursing at ahigh enough amount, on one hand,

(01:05:17):
you're not going to have enoughproviders that are willing to
go through the bureaucracy tohave the service.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Why go to nursing school to become?

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
a nurse.
Right, exactly, so it's abalance, right, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
That's wild.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
So yeah.
So my perspective is I want tohelp those that need the help.
That's wild.
So yeah.
So my perspective is I want tohelp those that need the help,
but we have got way too manypeople in our state and in the
country that are part of theentitlement program that need to
get off their butt and get towork.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Yeah, and that's the big thing too.
You see job postings and youhear no one wants to work.
Well, it's almost easier to notwork.
And then some of what theseemployers are paying, you know,

(01:06:08):
like a single mother, sheprefers to stay home and babysit
her own kids versus paying forbabysitting and then going to
work for 14, 15 an hour.
So there's just so manydynamics to this structure, that
pay structure, employmentopportunities, that type of

(01:06:29):
stuff.
But you're right, it's like man, some of these people, you
can't do the Willy Wonka andwait for the golden ticket.
Right, right, right, exactly.
Although chocolate does soundgood sugar-free chocolate latte
at roscoe's iced.
Just keep that in mind allright um anything else you want

(01:06:53):
to add.
I the property tax repealreplacement plan.
When does this go for vote?

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
So I'm planning on introducing it in January for
the legislative session.
So I do plan on, once I get allthe details and the numbers
back from LSA, I plan onreleasing it to the public well
before sessions.
People can have a chance toview it.
So be on the lookout for a billnumber.
Sometime between organizationday, which is November 19th, and
the end of this year, so beforeJanuary 1st, somewhere in that

(01:07:24):
range, there will be a billnumber out where people could
follow it.
See the fiscal analysis on it aswell and have a complete
breakdown and know how that'sgoing to affect your community.
So in the meantime I'm askingfor feedback.
So if you can think of aproblem with what I've thrown,
out there because right now I'mstill working through the bill,

(01:07:45):
so if you think of a problem, Ican tweak and fix things.
It's a lot easier to do thatduring the drafting stages and
once it's filed.
So I'd ask for feedback at h33at igaingov.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Okay, and I'll put that on the screen.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Yep, absolutely.
I'll leave a link in thedescription.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Oh yeah, Link in the bio Like, share, follow.
Yeah, that's, you get thispassed.
You're right up there with the.
You'll be the next presidentialdebate.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
Well, I don't know about that, but this is a big
deal.
If we can get this one acrossthe finish line, it is a big
deal.
We'd be the first state in thenation to completely eliminate
property taxes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
So let me go back.
Tif TIF districts.
Explain the TIF districts yes,absolutely so.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
Tif districts are tax increment finance districts and
there's different areas.
It could be for housingdevelopment.
What that is is you've taken anarea, a certain segment, and
you've bonded the infrastructureand the property tax revenue
coming back that's generated inthat TIF district goes

(01:08:57):
specifically towards paying offthe infrastructure and the debt
to get that that area created.
So that is revenue that doesnot go back into the county's
general operating fund, so ittakes money away from other
units of government within thatwithin that area.
Um, so what I'm doing is uh, um,so what I'm doing is, uh, no

(01:09:30):
new TIF districts can be createdafter, upon passage of the bill
, any existing TIF district.
We would on sales tax until thebonding obligations are all
paid off.
Once that debt is completelypaid off, then that TIF district
is dissolved.
There's no more TIF district,and then that revenue that was

(01:09:50):
going to fund the TIF, to payoff those bond obligations,
would then go back into the potto be split up between the
counties, the cities, localunits, government, so we'd get
that money that was goingtowards those debt obligations
and we'd get it back intogovernment services across the
board.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
I like it.
And down here they're talkingabout moving it into residential
development and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Yeah, there's residential TIFs as well.
Yeah, and the concept is thereason to do a TIF under the
current taxing structure is ifthere's no development there,
it's a tax base.
That's not so the existing.
This is an important point.
So if it's say it's a farmfield, you're going to turn into
a TIF area and bring in housing.

(01:10:34):
The tax base that was alreadythere at the agriculture rate
that would still go towardslocal units of government.
It's the extra, anything extraabove that would go to fund the
infrastructure with TIF.
So you'd have more houses.
So the thought process is let'sbring in development and growth

(01:10:54):
, let's pay for that developmentand growth through this TIF and
then once that TIF is done if aTIF is done properly once that
is dissolved, then you've gotthat extra tax base supporting
the community as a whole.
The problem with TIF districtsis you've got a lot of
communities that'll create aTiff district.

(01:11:15):
They'll get close to payingthat bond off and then they'll
go do another bond or do anotherproject within that to keep
that rate captured, to keep thathigher rate captured.
So they keep revolving it orthey layer them on top of each
other.
So there's too many tiffdistricts out there.
So it is an effective tool ifused properly.

(01:11:35):
The problem is like anythingelse uh, too many people have
tried to figure out how to gamethe system.
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
I love it, man, I love it.
Well, thanks for coming up hereand educating me, and then a
couple people will probablywatch this and they'll get some
education.
So this is really exciting.
I can't wait to tell all mywealthy friends that own a lot
of stuff.
Yeah that's great.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
They should love it.
Most people around the stateshould like this plan.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
It's going to— oh, yeah, and not just wealthy
people.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
Yeah, it's going to help everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Let me back up before we get canceled.
But yeah, no, everyone's goingto benefit from it and we need
it, man, we need it Well thankyou, appreciate it and now
Roscoe's Coffee.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Yeah, sounds good to me.
Life Inscripted with KevinShipp.