March 31, 2024 • 41 mins
When Dr. Matt from the Animal Care Alliance (ACA) stepped into our studio, the passion for her life's work was almost tangible. Our conversation unveiled a tapestry of childhood admiration for nature, a rigorous journey to veterinary specialism, and heartfelt stories of wildlife rehabilitation. As she spoke, it became clear that ACA isn't just a clinic; it's a lifeline for underserved communities and a sanctuary for injured wildlife, where every creature, from the humblest sparrow to the most exotic binturong, receives care rooted in deep compassion.
The world of exotic animal care, often shrouded in mystery, unfolded through Dr. Matt's vivid recounting of encounters with animals as varied as tigers and tarantulas. Imagine diagnosing a bear or sharing a moment with a chimpanzee – this is Dr. Matt's reality. Her anecdotes not only enthralled us but also opened a dialogue on the complexities of exotic pet ownership and its implications within Indiana's surprising wildlife tapestry. These narratives serve as a stark reminder of the specialized care these unique animals require and the profound responsibilities that come with welcoming them into our homes.
Finally, our discussion soared with tales of majestic birds of prey, the art of falconry in conservation, and the undeniable impact of human activity on these creatures' lives. The story of Ozzy, the red-tailed hawk, was a poignant example of the consequences of our carelessness and a testament to the dedication of wildlife rehabilitators. As we wrapped up, the invitation to witness Ozzy, the hawk, captivate our audience in a future session, left us with a sense of hope and a reminder of the essential role each of us plays in supporting organizations like the ACA and the wildlife they champion.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Dr Matt.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, here we are, yes, Welcome to Life Unscripted.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Thank you, ACA style right.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Yeah, we're really excited to be here today this is
great.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So tell everyone what ACA stands for.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
ACA stands for Animal Care Alliance.
We are a nonprofit, low-costveterinary clinic here in
Richmond and the main goal ofthe clinic is to be able to
offer veterinary services tounderserved or underprivileged
communities, especially lowincome families, so that they
still can have that benefit ofthe human animal bond and the
(00:37):
relationship with their pet,while being able to provide
necessary medical care for theseanimals provide necessary
medical care for these animals.
We also do wildliferehabilitation, which is one of
my main focuses, where if ananimal is injured or orphaned,
so hit by a car, or the treegets cut down and the babies
don't have a nest anymore,things like that, we are many of
(01:00):
us at the clinic and we have anetwork community around us of
licensed rehabbers so we cantake those animals in.
My focus is the medical care,so if it's a broken wing I can
pin it back together, or youknow a wound or something, and
babies and such we candistribute out to help raise
them so that they can bereleased back into the wild.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Wow, that's fascinating.
So what got you into all ofthis?
Like there has to be a story,as you were a kid or something
growing up.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah.
So as a kid I was always, youknow, the tomboy out catching
frogs and salamanders, andwhatever I could get my hands on
I'm usually bringing them home,whether or not my parents were
thrilled with that.
Especially my mom wasn't alwaysbig on all the creepy crawlies.
But as that developed, I'vealways been really interested in
(01:56):
biodiversity and wildlifeconservation and just the
genetic or the evolutionarytraits that these animals
develop to be able to thrive intheir set environment.
And when I got into undergradat IU, go Hoosiers.
There is a clinic out therecalled Wild Care Inc.
It's a wildlife rehabilitationcenter and I started
(02:20):
volunteering there my freshmanyear and that just really kind
of set the whole course of myfuture actions.
I fell in love with itimmediately.
I love getting to work withthese animals that at best you
see afar, if ever in your lifeum and then from there went to
vet school at oklahoma state umoklahoma state university, which
(02:40):
is osu, which has a big rivalrywith Oklahoma university which
is OU.
We are the Cowboys at OSU.
Okay and um, I did a lot withexotics there.
Um, obviously we all receivethe same basic training and then
you can kind of branch outwithin vet med of what your
passions are.
Um, so I did some wildliferehab there through the school.
(03:04):
We did some through the exoticsprogram at that school and then
I did externships in exotics aswell.
So I worked in wildlife rehabout in California on things like
sea lions and elephant seals,even in zoos and exotic
companion practice as well.
Bounced around a bit zoos andexotic companion practice as
(03:28):
well.
Bounced around a bit, decided Ireally wanted to pursue exotic
medicine, which is as aveterinarian.
Once you graduate, legally youcan work on any species.
However, most people aren'ttrained on what to do with a
special bird or a special guest.
But yeah, legally you can gowork on a horse or a cow or a
tiger.
What we're tested on are themain domestics, and then they
(03:51):
add things like chickens andsuch on the big national exam.
But to do something like exoticsthere's a lot more hurdles to
pass, especially if you want tobe board certified or become a
specialist, which was my goal topass, especially if you want to
be board certified or become aspecialist, which was my goal.
So after vet school I had to doa small animal rotating
internship so a year longprogram they did at the
(04:12):
University of Wisconsin inMadison.
Then I did a year longspecialty internship working
just with exotics at Tufts inMassachusetts and then I did a
two year residency program herein Indianapolis at the avian
exotic animal clinic ofIndianapolis in Indy.
Um, then I had to submit abunch of stuff and now, if all
goes according to plan, inOctober there's a big exam I get
(04:34):
to take before I can callmyself truly a specialist, Cause
it's actually a trademark term.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Wow, that's impressive so yeah, a lot of a
to jump.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Oh yeah, it's got like a 20 something percent pass
rate.
You usually fail it the firsttime.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I don't know.
You seem pretty sharp.
I got faith in you, that'll beexciting.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I'm going to try.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So how did you land up, end up here at the ACA in
Richmond?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Well, it's kind of a funny story.
Actually, I was working in Indyand I still work there once a
week, but I love wildlife and wedo wildlife rehab there as well
, and I just wanted to get moreinformation.
I'm always a sponge forlearning new things, so I took a
course online through the NWRA,which is the National Wildlife
(05:24):
Rehabilitators Association, justto learn more, get more
certification, and they had todo a group project where they
just paired you up with someoneelse in the class that was going
through it, and I happened toget paired up with Dr Kostik,
who is another veterinarian hereat ACA.
I had never heard of ACA, Iknew nothing about it there, but
she just happened to mention ohyeah, I'm in Indiana too,
(05:45):
because it was people all overthe country and mentioned the
clinic and I was like, oh, theydo wildlife and they're in
Indiana.
I should look more into this.
Someone upon it that way.
Um and it.
It sounded great.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
It sounded like a really great um place to match
my goals which were being ableto serve the community and do
wildlife and see exotic pets andended up here from there.
Well, I know I met Joyce threeor four months ago.
Everybody if you're watching,she's behind the cameras.
We tried to pull her in here.
(06:18):
So I met her and I knew she wasreally excited about you coming
here.
So that's great.
You, you know you really wantedhere.
Um, I think our mission and Iwant to have you on um, you know
quite often, because, for one,I really love animals.
I think you even knew that Ihave a chimpanzee friend, but
(06:41):
you might not like it, but uh,it's just.
You know I connect with animalsmore than humans.
I mean, you can probably relatesometimes like yeah, absolutely
so um, I want you up here a lot.
I want the community to knowthat you're able to take care of
exotics here, because that wasthe big thing and a lot of my
(07:01):
friends locally have snakesbearded dragons.
I forget the name of the biggerlizard.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Monster lizards or tegus.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Tegu.
You know what I was about tosay, Timu.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Not quite.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I know right, but yeah, so I want them to know
that you're here and how manydays a week, what days.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It's Tuesday, wednesday, thursday.
I'm usually there from eight tosix and we are seeing
appointments either in themorning or in the afternoon.
Right now we have a lot ofopenings because we're still
trying to get the exoticsclientele rolling, because it is
new.
A lot of people, you know I'vebeen there for a couple months
now and people are still sayingI didn't even know this was in
Richmond.
I only found you because myferret or whatever was sick.
(07:47):
So from that we've been able toget people to come in, even
just for the routine wellnessexams that we really recommend,
and we're just trying to spreadit from there.
So it's every week so far andI'm happy to see whatever.
The only limitations would beum, size and space.
So we don't really have thefacility for like a tiger or a
(08:09):
chimpanzee, um, but you know I'marachnids.
Give me pause.
Sometimes I'm going to behonest.
Um spiders spiders definitelygive me pause, um, but beyond
that I can't think of any exoticpet that I'm afraid of Like.
I love them all.
I love the giant snakes.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Now, what's the craziest thing that you've taken
care of?
I mean, I want to hear someTiger King stuff here.
Oh yeah, there's a tiger thatwe see every year for our annual
exams.
Where.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, it comes to the clinic in Indianapolis.
Oh okay, but as far as people'spets, oh man, you'd be amazed
at how many people in Indianahave monkeys.
Oh, yeah, like little marmosetsto bigger, scarier things like
chimps.
We see big cats.
We'll see falconry birds, whichis a passion of mine.
(09:03):
They're wild raptors that aretrained to work with a falconer.
I think even more than thespecies, because they get pretty
similar to me.
I guess my favorite one was abinturong, which is also called
a bearcat.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
For anyone listening.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
You should Google what a binturong or a bearcat
looks like.
How do a baby?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
uh b-i-n-t-u-r-o-n-g.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay, it's kind of like a did akumbo make note of
that?
Yeah, um, but we had a baby oneand it was cute as can be.
Um, that was probably myfavorite because I have never
worked with one, since they arein zoos but I didn't even know.
People had them as a pet andthey're most well-known because
their feet smell like popcorn.
What so we all had to pass itaround to sniff its feet?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Wow.
Because you know that's badLike you can't believe it if you
don't.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Exactly, you can't not smell its feet.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
That's wild.
So, like I told you, Iparamedic over in Putnam County,
which is a large county, butwhat I've learned so obviously
Toby's over there, thechimpanzee.
And you're like that's a badidea.
He's privately owned andeverything else.
It's probably a horrible idea.
So his owner is an old farmerand he raised him since he was a
(10:19):
little baby or whatever.
So I go play with him when I'mparamedic and stuff and he does
his little bing, bing, bing,bing, bing and you know could
obviously drop me right then andthere just wanting to give me a
hug.
But he's in a cage andeverything else that he he's got
out of.
Once I told you that story, butwhat I've learned is someone in
(10:43):
Putnam County has two bears aspets.
Really yes, because one of ourother shifts went on a bear
attack.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Wow, yeah, that sounds like a really cool meta
call.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, and in Putnam County.
And at the time I was inTennessee looking for bears
because I was doing somemarketing stuff at Hidden
Mountain Resort and I get athing saying that there's a bear
attack in Putnam County.
I'm like how?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
the hell that's Indiana Right?
I don't think we have.
I mean maybe out in the woods,but you know it would be hard to
be.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, and I blame social media, because people see
this bear at somebody's door,so they're like every bear, will
you know?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Let's see this bear at somebody's door.
So they're like every bear willyou know, let's go hug it.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, and the monkeys .
That's all I get on my phonenow, just because diapers, yeah,
yeah, Just because Toby's on my, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
So, um no, that's really cool experience, and uh.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
so I want you to scold me a little bit about this
chimpanzee I hang out with,like okay, um, I don't know the
owner of a chimpanzee, so Idon't know how he would feel
about the scolding well, uh, hewon't see it he won't see this,
I'm not gonna share it with him.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Um, so the owner is an old man and he's had toby
since he was born.
He grew up in the house untilhe was six in inside the house
with him and then he moved on tohis tiny home outside with the
big cages and stuff.
Okay, um, he had the permit andI think he still has the
permits, but the state that'sgreat yeah, the state like calls
(12:15):
him whenever there's anothercase and for his expertise okay
stuff.
So he's really good with himand stuff, but he doesn't let
people inside Good Except for.
Well inside.
So it's like a big tiny homedeal and then it's a big cage
inside.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So there's a double wall.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really good,that's important, but I get in
between there.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
But not in the cage.
I don't get inside with Chimp,that's fine If he's had this
chimp, since he was a tiny babyyou said he was what?
30-something now.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
He's 29 years old.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Laws were a lot different 30 years ago about
what you could and couldn't get,and for better or worse, you
could get pretty much whateveryou wanted.
So if it's in what we call inthe zoo world, protected contact
, which means you aren't justsitting right next to a fully
grown adult male champ.
We would still definitely notrecommend them as pets.
They are still extremelydangerous.
There was a story that wentaround of the one that quite
(13:15):
literally ripped a woman's faceoff.
They are extremely intelligentcreatures and they are
fascinating to study and theyhave such complex social
dynamics.
But, being so intelligent,people try to equate them as
like a human child for all thegood parts, but what they don't
equate is the human child whenit comes to temper tantrums and
(13:38):
ingenuity.
They are most well known in thezoo world for being able to
make a weapon out of pretty muchanything.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Doesn't matter what they find able to make a weapon
out of pretty much anything,doesn't matter what what they
find.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
He throws tomatoes at me sometimes tomatoes is
honestly the best thing he canthrow at you I know.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So yeah, tomatoes, he'll throw at me through the
cage yeah, like that, but he'll.
He gets real excited when hehears my voice before I even go
inside.
And then, um, I go inside andstand back and he shows off for
a while.
Yeah, and I give him a littlebit and then I just yell at him,
I'm like sit down, and then hejust stops and he'll put his
back against the cage and wantme to scratch it.
(14:13):
He'll stick his tongue out andI'll pull on his tongue and flip
his lips.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And then he'll start to get.
I can tell when he starts tolike he's about to get hyper
again, so I back up and let himding, ding, ding, ding.
But he'll play a water bottlegame with me.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Like a tug of war.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
He wants me to.
He'll go through all the holesin his cage and want me to grab
the water bottle.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Oh, like a whack-a-mole.
Yeah, and he'll make me runback and forth, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Then he's laughing at me, I but no, so yeah, it's
pretty cool.
And then it like resets thewhole day hanging out.
I tell everybody it's mytherapy chimp.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
And people can form really close bonds and they can
form really close bonds with thepeople they work with.
The big concern is safety andthe animal's mental health.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Oh yeah.
Well, yeah, If it's having abad day, if it might have an
infection and it might somethingelse, it might be really
irritable.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
But even from a standpoint of enrichment.
So one of the big troubles,especially back in the day the
laws are a lot more lax and evennow the USDA has changed their
laws based on captive birds orchanged their interpretation of
the law to where now the USDA isin charge of captive birds as
well.
(15:24):
It used to like feds and DNRwould like the US government
being the feds and Indiana DNRkind of split up.
If you have a captive wildanimal, who's in charge?
But I digress.
The USDA, now being in chargeof birds, has implemented a new
program for anyone that has acaptive bird like a captive wild
(15:45):
bird we're not talking aboutparrots here that they must have
an enrichment program writtenout, meaning that it is federal
law if you're going to have oneof these animals that you have
to write out and sit with aveterinarian to plan out a
method to make that animal'slife more enriched, to mentally
stimulate them.
Let them engage in naturalbehaviors like bathing or dust
(16:06):
bathing or playing with toys andtearing apart whole prey items.
And it's really only in thelast few decades that people
have started to recognize andunderstand the importance of
enrichment with animals and thebiggest problem back in the day.
And the reason you know all theresearch centers got so much
push against having primates isthe lack of enrichment that
(16:30):
these animals were asintelligent as a human child.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But not given stuff to do, but given nothing exactly
.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
You can't take a little toddler and put them in a
room with nothing to do all day.
They truly suffer physically aswell as mentally.
So it sounds like this chimpdoes get some really good
enrichment.
He has a big outdoor enclosure.
He has protected contact.
These are all good things inthe positive column.
I'm going to be honest AnytimeI hear privately owned chimp,
(17:01):
it's immediately in the negativecolumn.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Oh, absolutely, a thousand percent.
It's just one of those, likeyou, have to know the whole
situation before you can evenpull it halfway positive.
Right, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
And the fact that he's got him 30 years ago also
influences that.
You know he's not going todecide oh, 10 years in.
Actually this was a terribleidea.
Now I'm just going to dump himon the street somewhere, like
that's also not good.
So if, if you know he's willingto do this research and make
sure he keeps up to date withthe permits and does all of this
enrichment, I'm never going toapprove, but that's kind of the
(17:34):
best way to do it if you'regoing to do it.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So, okay.
So Toby's going to outlive him,okay, mm-hmm.
So I'm afraid Toby's going toend up in a zoo.
He's going to be like what thefuck?
Because he's not going to havehis TV that he watches, he's not
going to be able to pick blueMountain Dew over green Mountain
Dew, he's not going to see meall the time.
(17:58):
Where do I begin an educationIf just to be able?
I know they're not going to letme come in the enclosure and
everything else, but how can Ibe involved beyond just a normal
zoo patron?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So if you were to go to a different facility?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Is there like an educational certificate I could
work towards?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I would probably direct you towards training
programs.
So like you can becomecertified as an animal trainer.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Zookeepers also obviously get direct contact.
Well, you know, you knowprotected.
But like daily contact withthese animals.
Um, but that is a hard field toget into a lot of people don't
realize.
Most of them require at least abachelor's degree.
Many years of you know theintern right, unpaid work.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I figured there'd be like a lot I just wanted to be
able to like as I'm coming home.
Stop by the zoo and make sure,like he knows um, yeah, yeah,
but um, that it would depend onthe individual facility.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Okay, so a lot of facilities will do um, like
special experiences, they callit, where you usually have to
pay extra, and maybe you couldarrange something with that
program if you've known him on apersonal level before he were
to enter a facility, um, butwhere you could go in the back
and it's always protectedcontact, often with a barrier,
so you can't even like get rightup against the fence, um but to
(19:23):
be able to see him and talk tohim and engage with him.
Um, I will say again, with thepush towards mental health and
enrichment, um, there is a lotof negative stigma around zoos
that I think is very undeserved.
There are definitely bad zoos.
There are definitely placesthat make you cringe and cry
yourself to sleep when you seewhat happens there.
(19:44):
But the vast majority of themespecially if they're accredited
and the big name ones thatyou're going to be familiar with
, not like the person who justhappens to have some stuff while
you're driving down a highwayin the middle of nowhere All of
those have those same laws To becertified, to be accredited by
the AZA or the Association ofZoos and Aquariums.
(20:05):
They have to do things likeprove that they're doing
enrichment, different thingsevery single day.
They do actually get TV accesssometimes they do.
They get puzzle toys that haveto be varying every day so they
can get change every day intheir environment and he may
decide that he makes other chimpfriends there and get social
interaction that way, even if hedoesn't have this owner that
(20:27):
he's known for so long.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right now he has dog friends and he has goat friends,
miniature cow friends, BecauseI mean he knows how to make the
goat sounds and everything, andthen he'll throw water bottles
at them.
It's hilarious.
But enough about Toby.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I don't want to leave our friend in here hungry and
everything else Very excited.
So tell everybody who she is,and then let's get her out,
Alright.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, this is Ozzy Osbert she.
I will show you what she lookslike Adad Akumbo.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Your cover is still on there On your camera.
Your cover is still on there Onyour camera.
Your cover is still on there,buddy.
Oh, that's just a little accentcamera, that's just extra,
that's just extra.
So this is Ozzie.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Ozzie Osborne.
She, as you can hopefully tellfrom here, is a red-tailed hawk.
They are a native Indianawildlife species.
I'm going to let her just chillfor a minute, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
She's never been here before.
Let her get her anxiety down.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
And she should settle , get her wings closed.
But yes, this is a nativespecies.
They're very, very commonlyseen here in Indiana, most of
the time when you're driving outon the highway.
Good for you.
When you're driving out on thehighway and you see a big bird
sitting on a power line ortelephone pole, a big tree
branch.
It's usually one of these guys.
(22:34):
They prefer hunting inenvironments, um, where there's
like a, a woods that changes toflat land.
Yeah, so, for example, on theedge of a farm or, more commonly
, woods alongside a highway.
Um, the other thing that theylove about highways is actually
a problem for them.
And one of the reasons we see alot of them come in through
wildlife rehab, which for themand one of the reasons we see a
(22:56):
lot of them come in throughwildlife rehab, which is, um,
one of their main jobs in thisworld is to eat mice.
They love mice, it's theirfavorite thing ever.
And if you think of on thosebig highways, especially the
major ones, with a lot of fastfood joints around, people
unfortunately love to eat theirfast food and just toss either
the wrappers or, you know, it'san apple core, it's natural, I'm
(23:16):
just going to toss it out thewindow.
Extra fries I'm not going toeat, just toss it out the window
.
And the mice and rats and allof those natural scavengers love
it.
And these guys love the miceand rats, so it draws them to
the highways Exactly.
And they have incredible vision.
They have a higher flickerfusion frequency which means
(23:38):
they can literally see fasterthan us.
They can receive images andinterpret them faster because as
they're flying, everything iscoming very quickly at them and
they have to be able to makeminute changes in their flight
pattern to get that prey.
But when they're focusing onsomething, that is all they see.
They don't see the semi truckcoming at 80 miles an hour down
(23:58):
the highway flight pattern toget that prey.
But when they're focusing onsomething, that is all they see.
They don't see the semi truckcoming at 80 miles an hour down
the highway, and that's where wesee a lot of injuries there.
So typically, the message thatwe love to focus on with things
like red-tailed hawks thatyou're going to see around
everywhere is just clean upafter yourselves, even if it is
something like an apple core orsomething natural, take it home,
throw it away, throw it in yourcompost, because you don't want
to track it Exactly.
(24:19):
And these aren't the onlypredators that will come seeking
the mice and such All thecoyotes that you see on the side
of the road.
Usually the same situation.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
So how did Ozzie end up at the ACA?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Ozzie has a silly story.
She actually was found, Ibelieve, on somebody's porch and
just kind of hanging out aroundthere and they were like that's
weird, not normal behavior fora red-tailed hawk.
So she was picked up and broughtto ACA, evaluated and found not
to have any injuries.
But she was a first-year bird.
So we can tell that withred-tails because, as you see,
(24:52):
she has a beautiful red tail.
They don't actually get thatuntil their second year of life.
So when she came in, her tailwas banded, which tells us that
she's a baby or a first year.
You know, she still was thefull size, she had all of the
full feathers but hadn't reachedsexual maturity yet.
And while in the course of ACAshe was found to have no
(25:14):
injuries.
Just, you know, happy, healthy,red tail talk.
Okay, great Tried to releaseher and she wouldn't leave.
She just hung out around theclinic, um, and around the area
that she was.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
you know she was kept outside in flight cages to try
and get the one that I met theother day when I visited.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, that was screaming up a storm.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
He told me, their sound is actually.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yes, I was wondering if she might do it for us.
She might start to do it once.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I get the food out.
Can I feed her?
Will she let me feed her?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Probably not, I'm not sure if she'll take it from me
either, because she's prettyworked up right now.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Does she know we're talking about her?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Probably not, she probably just knows this is
weird.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Right, like this is awkward.
Yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
But she's displaying a lot of signs of comfort.
Is she, yeah.
So right now, it takes trainingto be able to interpret bird
behavior and oftentimes,honestly, many of my parrot
owners do not fully understandthe bird behavior.
But, focusing on what she'sdoing right now, so she's
looking around, which is a goodthing we want her to explore her
(26:21):
environment.
Right now.
She's just mad that I have thisjust shorter than that one.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
She wants to turn around.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Now she wants to spin around.
She just basically wants me togive her her feet back.
But, looking around to explorethe environment, her feathers
are relaxed, kind of open, notslicked tight to her body.
Um, she's kind of wrestling herwings a little bit.
All of that is just hersettling in.
A fearful bird can displayseveral different traits, um,
(26:50):
but most of the time they'regoing to be fixated on something
, something they perceive as athreat or someplace they see as
an escape, and they're going todo everything they can to try
and get there.
She's inquiring at my glove,which is a different one from
what she's used to, so she keepslooking at her feet in my hand.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
She's checking out all the camera systems.
She's never seen anything likethat.
She's just looking around.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
And that's, that's perfectly normal, that's
perfectly what we would expect.
She says oh, this is new.
How old is she Got to doublecheck?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
About five we think.
Yeah, and what's the lifespanon?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
her In captivity.
So it can vary.
Again, most of the time we'regoing to see them hit by car or
lead poisoning or take your pick.
They oftentimes come in shot,which, by the way, is federally
illegal Um and you can face bigfines and even jail time.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Really there she is.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
You want to talk?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Or do you want the food?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Are you hungry?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Um, so we do often see them shot a lot in captivity
.
They can live a lot longer thanthat.
Um, typically we're going tosee at least 15 to 20.
If we start to push 30, that'svery geriatric.
But in the wild, again, theydon't have any natural predators
, but humans, unfortunatelycontribute to their demise very
(28:08):
frequently.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
So you've worked with her a lot.
I actually haven't, you haven't, I haven't worked with her a
ton.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Joyce has worked with her a lot.
I actually haven't, you haven't, I haven't worked with her a
ton.
Joyce has worked with her a lot.
And that behavior is calledbaiting B-A-T-E, and that means
I wonder if I can fly over there.
But I have to remember that Ican't.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Poor girl.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, I know, but you have to stay here.
Gives you an idea of herwingspan.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You put some wings off.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, and she says now I'm hot.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Is she mad?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
No, she's just hot.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
There's a like a spring.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
So that's kind of like a bearded dragon or
whatever.
They'll open their mouth.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
They can't sweat.
They'll open up their feathersand sometimes they'll hold their
wings partly out if they'rereally trying to cool off, but
most of the time they're goingto just pant.
She can't eat my fingers either.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I think she just wants to check the place out.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
She would probably just go sit on one of the
rafters up there.
We let her go.
She can fly Back to her story.
So she was attempted to bereleased and then didn't leave.
And the more we've worked withher and the more I've seen her,
she appears to be what we call amal imprint, which means that
most likely the reason she wassitting on somebody's porch is
(29:27):
that somebody found her when shewas still a baby.
Baby and oftentimes people, ifthey find a baby hawk, it's the
cutest, most dinosaur littlething ever and oh my gosh, how
cool would it be to have my veryown hawk.
And then they realize they getbig and they eat a lot and mice
are very expensive.
We do have education animalsand we have to buy mice for them
(29:49):
and it's a great plug for heywe take donations.
But yes, she was likelymal-imprint, which means that
rather than think that she's ared-tailed hawk, she probably
thinks that she is a person orthat humans are friends, not
scary.
A normal wild red-tailed hawkwould be terrified if we just
(30:13):
took it out of the box and hadit in hand, but again, she
didn't leave.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
She said I got food here.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
She probably won't.
She hasn't taken it from meeither.
It'll take her a bit to calmdown.
What do you think she's like?
I see that that is mouse.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
She's licking her lips.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I mean, I guess they don't have lips.
No, this looks like mouse.
Huh Num Nums Girl.
The look of confusion.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
The look of offense.
I don't even know where I'm atno.
Got her beak wet, she's so cool.
Now is she one you can pet Notpet, no.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So sometimes when they work very closely with a
person, especially owls willpermit some direct touching.
But in bird language it'sactually a problem I run into
very commonly with my parrotowner clients.
Birds don't often touch oneanother.
So they may, especially parrots, you know they live in big
(31:23):
flocks.
They might come and help preenthe other bird's face because
they can't reach that.
But physical touching beyondthat is something that's only
reserved for a mate.
So when people have theirparrots exactly when they have
their parrots and they're likesnuggling them up against their
chest and giving them big, longpets, they are giving very
different messages from whatthey usually want to suggest
right, that's wrong yeah, andthey don't know it.
(31:44):
I think the the worst one I'vehad recently was this poor 17
year old boy who I rocked hisworld when I told him what he
was suggesting to his bird.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I violated my bird he was.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
He was very embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Did my bird violate me?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
But yes, so we don't often touch birds, which they
prefer, right?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
You're cute, though I mean I'd hug you up.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
But oh I would.
I would snuggle her so much ifI knew that.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
She's just cool.
Yeah, I want to hear that loud.
So tell us the fun fact abouther voice.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
So the fun fact is Red Tail Talks are the
unofficial official voice actorsfor Bald Eagles and pretty much
any other impressive lookingbird you will ever see on a
movie or TV show.
Red Tail Talks are responsiblefor that gorgeous, intense,
vicious scream, that just loudportrayal of a scream.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
We can't just tickle her and she'll do it,
unfortunately.
No, wouldn't that be fun.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
We can try playing it and see if she would yell back
at it.
But the bald eagle, ourbeautiful national symbol,
sounds like an irritated gull,like a seagull, and that doesn't
seem American enough.
So instead they'll show apicture of a beautiful bald
eagle flying across the sky andhave a red tail talk
(33:06):
conveniently tell you what theywant it to sound like.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
You already know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
All right, let's see.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So we'll see if we can convince her to talk back at
it.
She might not, because thisisn't her territory, so she has
no reason to attempt to defendit, and usually that's a call to
say hey, I live here, this ismy space.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Oh yeah, I feel bad.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
It got her attention.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I don't want to go crazy though.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
She's looking for it.
Who's that Is that?
Oh, she can poop on your floor.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
She just dropped a deuce.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
She says nope, this is somebody else's territory.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I need to leave.
I'm going to quit playing, thatokay.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
You're all right, they're not going to chase you
off.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
We made you poop and fly.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Well, she says somebody's telling me to get out
of their land.
I can't help you if you'restanding on your own, jess.
So these are called jesses.
It's a tool that originatesfrom falconry, which is over
10,000 years old, and thisleather right here is called an
(34:16):
anklet Self-explanatory therebut it's basically a lesion
collar for a bird of prey.
They have very, very stronglegs which they use to carry
prey that is often heavier thanthemselves, and we kind of take
advantage of that when we havethem in captivity to be able to
secure them in a safe way towhere you know if she does try
and take off, it's not going tohurt her to try and go fly
(34:40):
somewhere, and we take it veryslow, steps at a time to get
them accustomed to havingwearing this equipment, as it's
usually called.
But you'll find the smarterbirds like to unravel them and
pull the Jess out from theanklet, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
But yeah, it's basically a leash and collar for
a bird so a friend of mine, um,I think when I visited uh aca
last time, um, I postedsomething.
I forget what it was, just inmy stories it was.
It might have been her actuallymaking her noises, because you
know, we were trying to get herto make her sound.
Um, but he mentioned something.
(35:19):
He was trying to get intofalconry and I don't know if he
I think he's done some things,but I'm not sure.
What is that all about?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So falconry is different from what she's here
for.
She's very grumpy because shewants her feet and I have to
hold her feet still.
But falconry again, itoriginated at least 10,000 years
ago and was a way of hunting.
People would even hunt withthings like golden eagles, which
(35:47):
are the largest eagle that wehave here.
She's like.
This is annoying me.
I want to take it off now.
Those birds are usually takenfrom the wild as babies or as
first-year birds and to dressesand englets and basically
trained to hunt for the falconerUm.
Oftentimes they use dogs.
In conjunction you can havefalconry dogs that will
(36:08):
essentially flush prey like arabbit, for example, out of
hiding.
And then they send the bird offafter it to go catch it.
Um, and you, they've hunted, umpretty much every species I can
come up with.
If they can catch it, they canhunt it.
That doesn't mean they're allgoing to do a very good job, and
there's a lot of species thatare not good for falconry.
But what we do with them hereis essentially take some of
(36:31):
those original principles, alterthem a bit and apply them to
birds that are non-releasable.
So for her, she was tempted tobe released and said I don't
understand what it means to be ared-tailed hawk and I will
never go find a mate and makemore red-tailed hawks.
So she was deemednon-releasable and kept in
captivity.
For that reason we have totemperament test them all and
make sure that they're going tobe comfortable to stay in
(36:53):
captivity, both physically andmentally.
So her thinking that she's aperson or that people are great
mentally check that box realeasy, um, and physically she has
a bit of a wing droop, um, butis otherwise not compromised.
So she makes a great educationambassador, um, and then she can
do things like come on podcastsand say, hey, look at how cool
(37:15):
red-tailed dogs are um, andoftentimes it's going to be
something that's injured.
We have a short-eared owl whichis an endangered species in
Indiana that we're working withright now.
She's been temperament testedBefore we ever consider keeping
them, we evaluate them and makesure they're going to be okay
with it Because there are somespecies that are definitely not
(37:38):
okay with it and then we usethose principles originating in
falconry to be able to bringthem out and try and spread
awareness about the species thatwe have around us, how to
interact with them, how to workwith them cooperatively so you
know they're not stealing yourchickens or you're not shooting
them out of the sky and how toreally benefit both both sides
(38:01):
from that wow, this is beautifulhow calm she is so I've
Speaker 2 (38:08):
always had a soft spot for red tails and she has
the cage with the tree in themiddle of it yeah, that's pretty
cool.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Um, they all have to have their own outdoor enclosure
.
It's called a muse, like me,like a cat sound, um, that she
lives in, so she lives outdoors.
Um, she gets the sun, she getsthe rain.
She can hide from each of them.
She's got the big tree thatyou've seen.
She gets a variety of preyitems, um, every day, some of
which are small, like a smallmouse, that she might swallow,
(38:38):
and some of which she has to ripapart into tiny pieces so that
she can engage in that naturalbehavior.
She can feel my watch vibratingright now.
She didn't like that.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Do her way off.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
It was weird, huh, she made her first podcast today
.
Good job, you can teach people.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I appreciate you coming.
Is there volunteer opportunityat the ACA?
Is there?
You know they need donationsalways, always need donations.
What's some things we couldplug in at the end.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, so mice are expensive.
There's no getting around it.
Raptors are some of the mostexpensive animals you can keep
in an education program.
We have several which you maybe seeing different weeks, but
we do have volunteeropportunities.
Um, if you want to come, wehave a lot of in clinic.
Uh, it's baby season.
(39:29):
We actually have our firstthree baby squirrels and two
baby raccoons.
Um, and we are gonna get more.
It's just the tip of theiceberg, so there are always
volunteers needed in wildlife.
Uh, rehabilitation iceberg.
So there are always volunteersneeded in wildlife.
Uh, rehabilitation.
Getting to feed tiny babycritters is always cute.
Um, most of the time is going tobe things like cleaning poop
out of cages a lot of poop whenyou work with animals, um, but
(39:50):
yes, the clinic itself also cantake volunteers to do cleaning
and interacting with the animals, um.
And then donations are alwaysalways very gratefully accepted
because, again, beyond thewildlife, we are providing
discounted care for thecommunity.
But because we're offering adiscounted service doesn't mean
that it doesn't still cost whatit costs.
(40:12):
So we strive for grants.
We get some supportive funding,but a lot of it comes through
just the goodness of people'shearts and donating, and when
they bring us a wild animal youalways ask for a donation.
Some people can, some peoplecan't, but we always appreciate
whatever people are able to give.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Right.
So animal care alliance 501 C,three yes.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
That's what I thought .
Speaker 1 (40:32):
And you're located.
What's the address?
Uh, 1393.
One 1393?
1353.
1353.
Abington Pike.
It's on the southern part ofRichmond, Only not even 10
minutes from here.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Nice, well, I appreciate you coming in today
and, ozzy, I appreciate youcoming in today.
Yeah, girl, and I'll have tocome visit her.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Definitely We'll have to convince her to eat mice on
camera next time she gets tocome in.
But yeah, thank you for havingus.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
It was a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
We always love getting animals out and getting
to teach more people about whatgreat species we have right here
in our backyard.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh, this is great.
Alright, that's a wrap.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Alright.
Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Dr Matt.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, here we are, yes, Welcome to Life Unscripted.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Thank you, ACA style right.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Yeah, we're really excited to be here today this is
great.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So tell everyone what ACA stands for.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
ACA stands for Animal Care Alliance.
We are a nonprofit, low-costveterinary clinic here in
Richmond and the main goal ofthe clinic is to be able to
offer veterinary services tounderserved or underprivileged
communities, especially lowincome families, so that they
still can have that benefit ofthe human animal bond and the
(00:37):
relationship with their pet,while being able to provide
necessary medical care for theseanimals provide necessary
medical care for these animals.
We also do wildliferehabilitation, which is one of
my main focuses, where if ananimal is injured or orphaned,
so hit by a car, or the treegets cut down and the babies
don't have a nest anymore,things like that, we are many of
(01:00):
us at the clinic and we have anetwork community around us of
licensed rehabbers so we cantake those animals in.
My focus is the medical care,so if it's a broken wing I can
pin it back together, or youknow a wound or something, and
babies and such we candistribute out to help raise
them so that they can bereleased back into the wild.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Wow, that's fascinating.
So what got you into all ofthis?
Like there has to be a story,as you were a kid or something
growing up.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah.
So as a kid I was always, youknow, the tomboy out catching
frogs and salamanders, andwhatever I could get my hands on
I'm usually bringing them home,whether or not my parents were
thrilled with that.
Especially my mom wasn't alwaysbig on all the creepy crawlies.
But as that developed, I'vealways been really interested in
(01:56):
biodiversity and wildlifeconservation and just the
genetic or the evolutionarytraits that these animals
develop to be able to thrive intheir set environment.
And when I got into undergradat IU, go Hoosiers.
There is a clinic out therecalled Wild Care Inc.
It's a wildlife rehabilitationcenter and I started
(02:20):
volunteering there my freshmanyear and that just really kind
of set the whole course of myfuture actions.
I fell in love with itimmediately.
I love getting to work withthese animals that at best you
see afar, if ever in your lifeum and then from there went to
vet school at oklahoma state umoklahoma state university, which
(02:40):
is osu, which has a big rivalrywith Oklahoma university which
is OU.
We are the Cowboys at OSU.
Okay and um, I did a lot withexotics there.
Um, obviously we all receivethe same basic training and then
you can kind of branch outwithin vet med of what your
passions are.
Um, so I did some wildliferehab there through the school.
(03:04):
We did some through the exoticsprogram at that school and then
I did externships in exotics aswell.
So I worked in wildlife rehabout in California on things like
sea lions and elephant seals,even in zoos and exotic
companion practice as well.
Bounced around a bit zoos andexotic companion practice as
(03:28):
well.
Bounced around a bit, decided Ireally wanted to pursue exotic
medicine, which is as aveterinarian.
Once you graduate, legally youcan work on any species.
However, most people aren'ttrained on what to do with a
special bird or a special guest.
But yeah, legally you can gowork on a horse or a cow or a
tiger.
What we're tested on are themain domestics, and then they
(03:51):
add things like chickens andsuch on the big national exam.
But to do something like exoticsthere's a lot more hurdles to
pass, especially if you want tobe board certified or become a
specialist, which was my goal topass, especially if you want to
be board certified or become aspecialist, which was my goal.
So after vet school I had to doa small animal rotating
internship so a year longprogram they did at the
(04:12):
University of Wisconsin inMadison.
Then I did a year longspecialty internship working
just with exotics at Tufts inMassachusetts and then I did a
two year residency program herein Indianapolis at the avian
exotic animal clinic ofIndianapolis in Indy.
Um, then I had to submit abunch of stuff and now, if all
goes according to plan, inOctober there's a big exam I get
(04:34):
to take before I can callmyself truly a specialist, Cause
it's actually a trademark term.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Wow, that's impressive so yeah, a lot of a
to jump.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Oh yeah, it's got like a 20 something percent pass
rate.
You usually fail it the firsttime.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I don't know.
You seem pretty sharp.
I got faith in you, that'll beexciting.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I'm going to try.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So how did you land up, end up here at the ACA in
Richmond?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Well, it's kind of a funny story.
Actually, I was working in Indyand I still work there once a
week, but I love wildlife and wedo wildlife rehab there as well
, and I just wanted to get moreinformation.
I'm always a sponge forlearning new things, so I took a
course online through the NWRA,which is the National Wildlife
(05:24):
Rehabilitators Association, justto learn more, get more
certification, and they had todo a group project where they
just paired you up with someoneelse in the class that was going
through it, and I happened toget paired up with Dr Kostik,
who is another veterinarian hereat ACA.
I had never heard of ACA, Iknew nothing about it there, but
she just happened to mention ohyeah, I'm in Indiana too,
(05:45):
because it was people all overthe country and mentioned the
clinic and I was like, oh, theydo wildlife and they're in
Indiana.
I should look more into this.
Someone upon it that way.
Um and it.
It sounded great.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
It sounded like a really great um place to match
my goals which were being ableto serve the community and do
wildlife and see exotic pets andended up here from there.
Well, I know I met Joyce threeor four months ago.
Everybody if you're watching,she's behind the cameras.
We tried to pull her in here.
(06:18):
So I met her and I knew she wasreally excited about you coming
here.
So that's great.
You, you know you really wantedhere.
Um, I think our mission and Iwant to have you on um, you know
quite often, because, for one,I really love animals.
I think you even knew that Ihave a chimpanzee friend, but
(06:41):
you might not like it, but uh,it's just.
You know I connect with animalsmore than humans.
I mean, you can probably relatesometimes like yeah, absolutely
so um, I want you up here a lot.
I want the community to knowthat you're able to take care of
exotics here, because that wasthe big thing and a lot of my
(07:01):
friends locally have snakesbearded dragons.
I forget the name of the biggerlizard.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Monster lizards or tegus.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Tegu.
You know what I was about tosay, Timu.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Not quite.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I know right, but yeah, so I want them to know
that you're here and how manydays a week, what days.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It's Tuesday, wednesday, thursday.
I'm usually there from eight tosix and we are seeing
appointments either in themorning or in the afternoon.
Right now we have a lot ofopenings because we're still
trying to get the exoticsclientele rolling, because it is
new.
A lot of people, you know I'vebeen there for a couple months
now and people are still sayingI didn't even know this was in
Richmond.
I only found you because myferret or whatever was sick.
(07:47):
So from that we've been able toget people to come in, even
just for the routine wellnessexams that we really recommend,
and we're just trying to spreadit from there.
So it's every week so far andI'm happy to see whatever.
The only limitations would beum, size and space.
So we don't really have thefacility for like a tiger or a
(08:09):
chimpanzee, um, but you know I'marachnids.
Give me pause.
Sometimes I'm going to behonest.
Um spiders spiders definitelygive me pause, um, but beyond
that I can't think of any exoticpet that I'm afraid of Like.
I love them all.
I love the giant snakes.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Now, what's the craziest thing that you've taken
care of?
I mean, I want to hear someTiger King stuff here.
Oh yeah, there's a tiger thatwe see every year for our annual
exams.
Where.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, it comes to the clinic in Indianapolis.
Oh okay, but as far as people'spets, oh man, you'd be amazed
at how many people in Indianahave monkeys.
Oh, yeah, like little marmosetsto bigger, scarier things like
chimps.
We see big cats.
We'll see falconry birds, whichis a passion of mine.
(09:03):
They're wild raptors that aretrained to work with a falconer.
I think even more than thespecies, because they get pretty
similar to me.
I guess my favorite one was abinturong, which is also called
a bearcat.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
For anyone listening.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
You should Google what a binturong or a bearcat
looks like.
How do a baby?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
uh b-i-n-t-u-r-o-n-g.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay, it's kind of like a did akumbo make note of
that?
Yeah, um, but we had a baby oneand it was cute as can be.
Um, that was probably myfavorite because I have never
worked with one, since they arein zoos but I didn't even know.
People had them as a pet andthey're most well-known because
their feet smell like popcorn.
What so we all had to pass itaround to sniff its feet?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Wow.
Because you know that's badLike you can't believe it if you
don't.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Exactly, you can't not smell its feet.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
That's wild.
So, like I told you, Iparamedic over in Putnam County,
which is a large county, butwhat I've learned so obviously
Toby's over there, thechimpanzee.
And you're like that's a badidea.
He's privately owned andeverything else.
It's probably a horrible idea.
So his owner is an old farmerand he raised him since he was a
(10:19):
little baby or whatever.
So I go play with him when I'mparamedic and stuff and he does
his little bing, bing, bing,bing, bing and you know could
obviously drop me right then andthere just wanting to give me a
hug.
But he's in a cage andeverything else that he he's got
out of.
Once I told you that story, butwhat I've learned is someone in
(10:43):
Putnam County has two bears aspets.
Really yes, because one of ourother shifts went on a bear
attack.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Wow, yeah, that sounds like a really cool meta
call.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, and in Putnam County.
And at the time I was inTennessee looking for bears
because I was doing somemarketing stuff at Hidden
Mountain Resort and I get athing saying that there's a bear
attack in Putnam County.
I'm like how?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
the hell that's Indiana Right?
I don't think we have.
I mean maybe out in the woods,but you know it would be hard to
be.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, and I blame social media, because people see
this bear at somebody's door,so they're like every bear, will
you know?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Let's see this bear at somebody's door.
So they're like every bear willyou know, let's go hug it.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, and the monkeys .
That's all I get on my phonenow, just because diapers, yeah,
yeah, Just because Toby's on my, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
So, um no, that's really cool experience, and uh.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
so I want you to scold me a little bit about this
chimpanzee I hang out with,like okay, um, I don't know the
owner of a chimpanzee, so Idon't know how he would feel
about the scolding well, uh, hewon't see it he won't see this,
I'm not gonna share it with him.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Um, so the owner is an old man and he's had toby
since he was born.
He grew up in the house untilhe was six in inside the house
with him and then he moved on tohis tiny home outside with the
big cages and stuff.
Okay, um, he had the permit andI think he still has the
permits, but the state that'sgreat yeah, the state like calls
(12:15):
him whenever there's anothercase and for his expertise okay
stuff.
So he's really good with himand stuff, but he doesn't let
people inside Good Except for.
Well inside.
So it's like a big tiny homedeal and then it's a big cage
inside.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So there's a double wall.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really good,that's important, but I get in
between there.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
But not in the cage.
I don't get inside with Chimp,that's fine If he's had this
chimp, since he was a tiny babyyou said he was what?
30-something now.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
He's 29 years old.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Laws were a lot different 30 years ago about
what you could and couldn't get,and for better or worse, you
could get pretty much whateveryou wanted.
So if it's in what we call inthe zoo world, protected contact
, which means you aren't justsitting right next to a fully
grown adult male champ.
We would still definitely notrecommend them as pets.
They are still extremelydangerous.
There was a story that wentaround of the one that quite
(13:15):
literally ripped a woman's faceoff.
They are extremely intelligentcreatures and they are
fascinating to study and theyhave such complex social
dynamics.
But, being so intelligent,people try to equate them as
like a human child for all thegood parts, but what they don't
equate is the human child whenit comes to temper tantrums and
(13:38):
ingenuity.
They are most well known in thezoo world for being able to
make a weapon out of pretty muchanything.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Doesn't matter what they find able to make a weapon
out of pretty much anything,doesn't matter what what they
find.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
He throws tomatoes at me sometimes tomatoes is
honestly the best thing he canthrow at you I know.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
So yeah, tomatoes, he'll throw at me through the
cage yeah, like that, but he'll.
He gets real excited when hehears my voice before I even go
inside.
And then, um, I go inside andstand back and he shows off for
a while.
Yeah, and I give him a littlebit and then I just yell at him,
I'm like sit down, and then hejust stops and he'll put his
back against the cage and wantme to scratch it.
(14:13):
He'll stick his tongue out andI'll pull on his tongue and flip
his lips.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And then he'll start to get.
I can tell when he starts tolike he's about to get hyper
again, so I back up and let himding, ding, ding, ding.
But he'll play a water bottlegame with me.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Like a tug of war.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
He wants me to.
He'll go through all the holesin his cage and want me to grab
the water bottle.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Oh, like a whack-a-mole.
Yeah, and he'll make me runback and forth, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Then he's laughing at me, I but no, so yeah, it's
pretty cool.
And then it like resets thewhole day hanging out.
I tell everybody it's mytherapy chimp.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
And people can form really close bonds and they can
form really close bonds with thepeople they work with.
The big concern is safety andthe animal's mental health.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Oh yeah.
Well, yeah, If it's having abad day, if it might have an
infection and it might somethingelse, it might be really
irritable.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
But even from a standpoint of enrichment.
So one of the big troubles,especially back in the day the
laws are a lot more lax and evennow the USDA has changed their
laws based on captive birds orchanged their interpretation of
the law to where now the USDA isin charge of captive birds as
well.
(15:24):
It used to like feds and DNRwould like the US government
being the feds and Indiana DNRkind of split up.
If you have a captive wildanimal, who's in charge?
But I digress.
The USDA, now being in chargeof birds, has implemented a new
program for anyone that has acaptive bird like a captive wild
(15:45):
bird we're not talking aboutparrots here that they must have
an enrichment program writtenout, meaning that it is federal
law if you're going to have oneof these animals that you have
to write out and sit with aveterinarian to plan out a
method to make that animal'slife more enriched, to mentally
stimulate them.
Let them engage in naturalbehaviors like bathing or dust
(16:06):
bathing or playing with toys andtearing apart whole prey items.
And it's really only in thelast few decades that people
have started to recognize andunderstand the importance of
enrichment with animals and thebiggest problem back in the day.
And the reason you know all theresearch centers got so much
push against having primates isthe lack of enrichment that
(16:30):
these animals were asintelligent as a human child.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But not given stuff to do, but given nothing exactly
.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
You can't take a little toddler and put them in a
room with nothing to do all day.
They truly suffer physically aswell as mentally.
So it sounds like this chimpdoes get some really good
enrichment.
He has a big outdoor enclosure.
He has protected contact.
These are all good things inthe positive column.
I'm going to be honest AnytimeI hear privately owned chimp,
(17:01):
it's immediately in the negativecolumn.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Oh, absolutely, a thousand percent.
It's just one of those, likeyou, have to know the whole
situation before you can evenpull it halfway positive.
Right, right, exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
And the fact that he's got him 30 years ago also
influences that.
You know he's not going todecide oh, 10 years in.
Actually this was a terribleidea.
Now I'm just going to dump himon the street somewhere, like
that's also not good.
So if, if you know he's willingto do this research and make
sure he keeps up to date withthe permits and does all of this
enrichment, I'm never going toapprove, but that's kind of the
(17:34):
best way to do it if you'regoing to do it.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So, okay.
So Toby's going to outlive him,okay, mm-hmm.
So I'm afraid Toby's going toend up in a zoo.
He's going to be like what thefuck?
Because he's not going to havehis TV that he watches, he's not
going to be able to pick blueMountain Dew over green Mountain
Dew, he's not going to see meall the time.
(17:58):
Where do I begin an educationIf just to be able?
I know they're not going to letme come in the enclosure and
everything else, but how can Ibe involved beyond just a normal
zoo patron?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So if you were to go to a different facility?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Is there like an educational certificate I could
work towards?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I would probably direct you towards training
programs.
So like you can becomecertified as an animal trainer.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Zookeepers also obviously get direct contact.
Well, you know, you knowprotected.
But like daily contact withthese animals.
Um, but that is a hard field toget into a lot of people don't
realize.
Most of them require at least abachelor's degree.
Many years of you know theintern right, unpaid work.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I figured there'd be like a lot I just wanted to be
able to like as I'm coming home.
Stop by the zoo and make sure,like he knows um, yeah, yeah,
but um, that it would depend onthe individual facility.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Okay, so a lot of facilities will do um, like
special experiences, they callit, where you usually have to
pay extra, and maybe you couldarrange something with that
program if you've known him on apersonal level before he were
to enter a facility, um, butwhere you could go in the back
and it's always protectedcontact, often with a barrier,
so you can't even like get rightup against the fence, um but to
(19:23):
be able to see him and talk tohim and engage with him.
Um, I will say again, with thepush towards mental health and
enrichment, um, there is a lotof negative stigma around zoos
that I think is very undeserved.
There are definitely bad zoos.
There are definitely placesthat make you cringe and cry
yourself to sleep when you seewhat happens there.
(19:44):
But the vast majority of themespecially if they're accredited
and the big name ones thatyou're going to be familiar with
, not like the person who justhappens to have some stuff while
you're driving down a highwayin the middle of nowhere All of
those have those same laws To becertified, to be accredited by
the AZA or the Association ofZoos and Aquariums.
(20:05):
They have to do things likeprove that they're doing
enrichment, different thingsevery single day.
They do actually get TV accesssometimes they do.
They get puzzle toys that haveto be varying every day so they
can get change every day intheir environment and he may
decide that he makes other chimpfriends there and get social
interaction that way, even if hedoesn't have this owner that
(20:27):
he's known for so long.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right now he has dog friends and he has goat friends,
miniature cow friends, BecauseI mean he knows how to make the
goat sounds and everything, andthen he'll throw water bottles
at them.
It's hilarious.
But enough about Toby.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
I don't want to leave our friend in here hungry and
everything else Very excited.
So tell everybody who she is,and then let's get her out,
Alright.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, this is Ozzy Osbert she.
I will show you what she lookslike Adad Akumbo.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Your cover is still on there On your camera.
Your cover is still on there Onyour camera.
Your cover is still on there,buddy.
Oh, that's just a little accentcamera, that's just extra,
that's just extra.
So this is Ozzie.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Ozzie Osborne.
She, as you can hopefully tellfrom here, is a red-tailed hawk.
They are a native Indianawildlife species.
I'm going to let her just chillfor a minute, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
She's never been here before.
Let her get her anxiety down.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
And she should settle , get her wings closed.
But yes, this is a nativespecies.
They're very, very commonlyseen here in Indiana, most of
the time when you're driving outon the highway.
Good for you.
When you're driving out on thehighway and you see a big bird
sitting on a power line ortelephone pole, a big tree
branch.
It's usually one of these guys.
(22:34):
They prefer hunting inenvironments, um, where there's
like a, a woods that changes toflat land.
Yeah, so, for example, on theedge of a farm or, more commonly
, woods alongside a highway.
Um, the other thing that theylove about highways is actually
a problem for them.
And one of the reasons we see alot of them come in through
wildlife rehab, which for themand one of the reasons we see a
(22:56):
lot of them come in throughwildlife rehab, which is, um,
one of their main jobs in thisworld is to eat mice.
They love mice, it's theirfavorite thing ever.
And if you think of on thosebig highways, especially the
major ones, with a lot of fastfood joints around, people
unfortunately love to eat theirfast food and just toss either
the wrappers or, you know, it'san apple core, it's natural, I'm
(23:16):
just going to toss it out thewindow.
Extra fries I'm not going toeat, just toss it out the window
.
And the mice and rats and allof those natural scavengers love
it.
And these guys love the miceand rats, so it draws them to
the highways Exactly.
And they have incredible vision.
They have a higher flickerfusion frequency which means
(23:38):
they can literally see fasterthan us.
They can receive images andinterpret them faster because as
they're flying, everything iscoming very quickly at them and
they have to be able to makeminute changes in their flight
pattern to get that prey.
But when they're focusing onsomething, that is all they see.
They don't see the semi truckcoming at 80 miles an hour down
(23:58):
the highway flight pattern toget that prey.
But when they're focusing onsomething, that is all they see.
They don't see the semi truckcoming at 80 miles an hour down
the highway, and that's where wesee a lot of injuries there.
So typically, the message thatwe love to focus on with things
like red-tailed hawks thatyou're going to see around
everywhere is just clean upafter yourselves, even if it is
something like an apple core orsomething natural, take it home,
throw it away, throw it in yourcompost, because you don't want
to track it Exactly.
(24:19):
And these aren't the onlypredators that will come seeking
the mice and such All thecoyotes that you see on the side
of the road.
Usually the same situation.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
So how did Ozzie end up at the ACA?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Ozzie has a silly story.
She actually was found, Ibelieve, on somebody's porch and
just kind of hanging out aroundthere and they were like that's
weird, not normal behavior fora red-tailed hawk.
So she was picked up and broughtto ACA, evaluated and found not
to have any injuries.
But she was a first-year bird.
So we can tell that withred-tails because, as you see,
(24:52):
she has a beautiful red tail.
They don't actually get thatuntil their second year of life.
So when she came in, her tailwas banded, which tells us that
she's a baby or a first year.
You know, she still was thefull size, she had all of the
full feathers but hadn't reachedsexual maturity yet.
And while in the course of ACAshe was found to have no
(25:14):
injuries.
Just, you know, happy, healthy,red tail talk.
Okay, great Tried to releaseher and she wouldn't leave.
She just hung out around theclinic, um, and around the area
that she was.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
you know she was kept outside in flight cages to try
and get the one that I met theother day when I visited.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Yeah, that was screaming up a storm.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
He told me, their sound is actually.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yes, I was wondering if she might do it for us.
She might start to do it once.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I get the food out.
Can I feed her?
Will she let me feed her?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Probably not, I'm not sure if she'll take it from me
either, because she's prettyworked up right now.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Does she know we're talking about her?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Probably not, she probably just knows this is
weird.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Right, like this is awkward.
Yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
But she's displaying a lot of signs of comfort.
Is she, yeah.
So right now, it takes trainingto be able to interpret bird
behavior and oftentimes,honestly, many of my parrot
owners do not fully understandthe bird behavior.
But, focusing on what she'sdoing right now, so she's
looking around, which is a goodthing we want her to explore her
(26:21):
environment.
Right now.
She's just mad that I have thisjust shorter than that one.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
She wants to turn around.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Now she wants to spin around.
She just basically wants me togive her her feet back.
But, looking around to explorethe environment, her feathers
are relaxed, kind of open, notslicked tight to her body.
Um, she's kind of wrestling herwings a little bit.
All of that is just hersettling in.
A fearful bird can displayseveral different traits, um,
(26:50):
but most of the time they'regoing to be fixated on something
, something they perceive as athreat or someplace they see as
an escape, and they're going todo everything they can to try
and get there.
She's inquiring at my glove,which is a different one from
what she's used to, so she keepslooking at her feet in my hand.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
She's checking out all the camera systems.
She's never seen anything likethat.
She's just looking around.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
And that's, that's perfectly normal, that's
perfectly what we would expect.
She says oh, this is new.
How old is she Got to doublecheck?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
About five we think.
Yeah, and what's the lifespanon?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
her In captivity.
So it can vary.
Again, most of the time we'regoing to see them hit by car or
lead poisoning or take your pick.
They oftentimes come in shot,which, by the way, is federally
illegal Um and you can face bigfines and even jail time.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Really there she is.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
You want to talk?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Or do you want the food?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Are you hungry?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Um, so we do often see them shot a lot in captivity
.
They can live a lot longer thanthat.
Um, typically we're going tosee at least 15 to 20.
If we start to push 30, that'svery geriatric.
But in the wild, again, theydon't have any natural predators
, but humans, unfortunatelycontribute to their demise very
(28:08):
frequently.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
So you've worked with her a lot.
I actually haven't, you haven't, I haven't worked with her a
ton.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Joyce has worked with her a lot.
I actually haven't, you haven't, I haven't worked with her a
ton.
Joyce has worked with her a lot.
And that behavior is calledbaiting B-A-T-E, and that means
I wonder if I can fly over there.
But I have to remember that Ican't.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Poor girl.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, I know, but you have to stay here.
Gives you an idea of herwingspan.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You put some wings off.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, and she says now I'm hot.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Is she mad?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
No, she's just hot.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
There's a like a spring.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
So that's kind of like a bearded dragon or
whatever.
They'll open their mouth.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
They can't sweat.
They'll open up their feathersand sometimes they'll hold their
wings partly out if they'rereally trying to cool off, but
most of the time they're goingto just pant.
She can't eat my fingers either.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I think she just wants to check the place out.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
She would probably just go sit on one of the
rafters up there.
We let her go.
She can fly Back to her story.
So she was attempted to bereleased and then didn't leave.
And the more we've worked withher and the more I've seen her,
she appears to be what we call amal imprint, which means that
most likely the reason she wassitting on somebody's porch is
(29:27):
that somebody found her when shewas still a baby.
Baby and oftentimes people, ifthey find a baby hawk, it's the
cutest, most dinosaur littlething ever and oh my gosh, how
cool would it be to have my veryown hawk.
And then they realize they getbig and they eat a lot and mice
are very expensive.
We do have education animalsand we have to buy mice for them
(29:49):
and it's a great plug for heywe take donations.
But yes, she was likelymal-imprint, which means that
rather than think that she's ared-tailed hawk, she probably
thinks that she is a person orthat humans are friends, not
scary.
A normal wild red-tailed hawkwould be terrified if we just
(30:13):
took it out of the box and hadit in hand, but again, she
didn't leave.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
She said I got food here.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
She probably won't.
She hasn't taken it from meeither.
It'll take her a bit to calmdown.
What do you think she's like?
I see that that is mouse.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
She's licking her lips.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I mean, I guess they don't have lips.
No, this looks like mouse.
Huh Num Nums Girl.
The look of confusion.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
The look of offense.
I don't even know where I'm atno.
Got her beak wet, she's so cool.
Now is she one you can pet Notpet, no.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So sometimes when they work very closely with a
person, especially owls willpermit some direct touching.
But in bird language it'sactually a problem I run into
very commonly with my parrotowner clients.
Birds don't often touch oneanother.
So they may, especially parrots, you know they live in big
(31:23):
flocks.
They might come and help preenthe other bird's face because
they can't reach that.
But physical touching beyondthat is something that's only
reserved for a mate.
So when people have theirparrots exactly when they have
their parrots and they're likesnuggling them up against their
chest and giving them big, longpets, they are giving very
different messages from whatthey usually want to suggest
right, that's wrong yeah, andthey don't know it.
(31:44):
I think the the worst one I'vehad recently was this poor 17
year old boy who I rocked hisworld when I told him what he
was suggesting to his bird.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I violated my bird he was.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
He was very embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Did my bird violate me?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
But yes, so we don't often touch birds, which they
prefer, right?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
You're cute, though I mean I'd hug you up.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
But oh I would.
I would snuggle her so much ifI knew that.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
She's just cool.
Yeah, I want to hear that loud.
So tell us the fun fact abouther voice.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
So the fun fact is Red Tail Talks are the
unofficial official voice actorsfor Bald Eagles and pretty much
any other impressive lookingbird you will ever see on a
movie or TV show.
Red Tail Talks are responsiblefor that gorgeous, intense,
vicious scream, that just loudportrayal of a scream.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
We can't just tickle her and she'll do it,
unfortunately.
No, wouldn't that be fun.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
We can try playing it and see if she would yell back
at it.
But the bald eagle, ourbeautiful national symbol,
sounds like an irritated gull,like a seagull, and that doesn't
seem American enough.
So instead they'll show apicture of a beautiful bald
eagle flying across the sky andhave a red tail talk
(33:06):
conveniently tell you what theywant it to sound like.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
You already know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
All right, let's see.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So we'll see if we can convince her to talk back at
it.
She might not, because thisisn't her territory, so she has
no reason to attempt to defendit, and usually that's a call to
say hey, I live here, this ismy space.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Oh yeah, I feel bad.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
It got her attention.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I don't want to go crazy though.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
She's looking for it.
Who's that Is that?
Oh, she can poop on your floor.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
She just dropped a deuce.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
She says nope, this is somebody else's territory.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I need to leave.
I'm going to quit playing, thatokay.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
You're all right, they're not going to chase you
off.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
We made you poop and fly.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Well, she says somebody's telling me to get out
of their land.
I can't help you if you'restanding on your own, jess.
So these are called jesses.
It's a tool that originatesfrom falconry, which is over
10,000 years old, and thisleather right here is called an
(34:16):
anklet Self-explanatory therebut it's basically a lesion
collar for a bird of prey.
They have very, very stronglegs which they use to carry
prey that is often heavier thanthemselves, and we kind of take
advantage of that when we havethem in captivity to be able to
secure them in a safe way towhere you know if she does try
and take off, it's not going tohurt her to try and go fly
(34:40):
somewhere, and we take it veryslow, steps at a time to get
them accustomed to havingwearing this equipment, as it's
usually called.
But you'll find the smarterbirds like to unravel them and
pull the Jess out from theanklet, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
But yeah, it's basically a leash and collar for
a bird so a friend of mine, um,I think when I visited uh aca
last time, um, I postedsomething.
I forget what it was, just inmy stories it was.
It might have been her actuallymaking her noises, because you
know, we were trying to get herto make her sound.
Um, but he mentioned something.
(35:19):
He was trying to get intofalconry and I don't know if he
I think he's done some things,but I'm not sure.
What is that all about?
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So falconry is different from what she's here
for.
She's very grumpy because shewants her feet and I have to
hold her feet still.
But falconry again, itoriginated at least 10,000 years
ago and was a way of hunting.
People would even hunt withthings like golden eagles, which
(35:47):
are the largest eagle that wehave here.
She's like.
This is annoying me.
I want to take it off now.
Those birds are usually takenfrom the wild as babies or as
first-year birds and to dressesand englets and basically
trained to hunt for the falconerUm.
Oftentimes they use dogs.
In conjunction you can havefalconry dogs that will
(36:08):
essentially flush prey like arabbit, for example, out of
hiding.
And then they send the bird offafter it to go catch it.
Um, and you, they've hunted, umpretty much every species I can
come up with.
If they can catch it, they canhunt it.
That doesn't mean they're allgoing to do a very good job, and
there's a lot of species thatare not good for falconry.
But what we do with them hereis essentially take some of
(36:31):
those original principles, alterthem a bit and apply them to
birds that are non-releasable.
So for her, she was tempted tobe released and said I don't
understand what it means to be ared-tailed hawk and I will
never go find a mate and makemore red-tailed hawks.
So she was deemednon-releasable and kept in
captivity.
For that reason we have totemperament test them all and
make sure that they're going tobe comfortable to stay in
(36:53):
captivity, both physically andmentally.
So her thinking that she's aperson or that people are great
mentally check that box realeasy, um, and physically she has
a bit of a wing droop, um, butis otherwise not compromised.
So she makes a great educationambassador, um, and then she can
do things like come on podcastsand say, hey, look at how cool
(37:15):
red-tailed dogs are um, andoftentimes it's going to be
something that's injured.
We have a short-eared owl whichis an endangered species in
Indiana that we're working withright now.
She's been temperament testedBefore we ever consider keeping
them, we evaluate them and makesure they're going to be okay
with it Because there are somespecies that are definitely not
(37:38):
okay with it and then we usethose principles originating in
falconry to be able to bringthem out and try and spread
awareness about the species thatwe have around us, how to
interact with them, how to workwith them cooperatively so you
know they're not stealing yourchickens or you're not shooting
them out of the sky and how toreally benefit both both sides
(38:01):
from that wow, this is beautifulhow calm she is so I've
Speaker 2 (38:08):
always had a soft spot for red tails and she has
the cage with the tree in themiddle of it yeah, that's pretty
cool.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Um, they all have to have their own outdoor enclosure
.
It's called a muse, like me,like a cat sound, um, that she
lives in, so she lives outdoors.
Um, she gets the sun, she getsthe rain.
She can hide from each of them.
She's got the big tree thatyou've seen.
She gets a variety of preyitems, um, every day, some of
which are small, like a smallmouse, that she might swallow,
(38:38):
and some of which she has to ripapart into tiny pieces so that
she can engage in that naturalbehavior.
She can feel my watch vibratingright now.
She didn't like that.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Do her way off.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
It was weird, huh, she made her first podcast today
.
Good job, you can teach people.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I appreciate you coming.
Is there volunteer opportunityat the ACA?
Is there?
You know they need donationsalways, always need donations.
What's some things we couldplug in at the end.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, so mice are expensive.
There's no getting around it.
Raptors are some of the mostexpensive animals you can keep
in an education program.
We have several which you maybe seeing different weeks, but
we do have volunteeropportunities.
Um, if you want to come, wehave a lot of in clinic.
Uh, it's baby season.
(39:29):
We actually have our firstthree baby squirrels and two
baby raccoons.
Um, and we are gonna get more.
It's just the tip of theiceberg, so there are always
volunteers needed in wildlife.
Uh, rehabilitation iceberg.
So there are always volunteersneeded in wildlife.
Uh, rehabilitation.
Getting to feed tiny babycritters is always cute.
Um, most of the time is going tobe things like cleaning poop
out of cages a lot of poop whenyou work with animals, um, but
(39:50):
yes, the clinic itself also cantake volunteers to do cleaning
and interacting with the animals, um.
And then donations are alwaysalways very gratefully accepted
because, again, beyond thewildlife, we are providing
discounted care for thecommunity.
But because we're offering adiscounted service doesn't mean
that it doesn't still cost whatit costs.
(40:12):
So we strive for grants.
We get some supportive funding,but a lot of it comes through
just the goodness of people'shearts and donating, and when
they bring us a wild animal youalways ask for a donation.
Some people can, some peoplecan't, but we always appreciate
whatever people are able to give.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Right.
So animal care alliance 501 C,three yes.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
That's what I thought .
Speaker 1 (40:32):
And you're located.
What's the address?
Uh, 1393.
One 1393?
1353.
1353.
Abington Pike.
It's on the southern part ofRichmond, Only not even 10
minutes from here.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Nice, well, I appreciate you coming in today
and, ozzy, I appreciate youcoming in today.
Yeah, girl, and I'll have tocome visit her.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Definitely We'll have to convince her to eat mice on
camera next time she gets tocome in.
But yeah, thank you for havingus.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
It was a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
We always love getting animals out and getting
to teach more people about whatgreat species we have right here
in our backyard.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh, this is great.
Alright, that's a wrap.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Alright.
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