Guest: Beauty Executive, Denine Pappalardo

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to LifeGLOSS, a beautypodcast for sassy and seasoned
women who have lived life andhave a drawer full of lip gloss
to prove it.

Susan Gerdeman (00:09):
So technically to be a guest on LifeGLOSS
podcast, you don't actually haveto be blonde.
However, it just so happens thatwe decided today's blonde day on
life.
It's really rare that I get tocome on here and say that it is
a privilege and an honor to havesomeone with so much experience,

(00:34):
but also Someone who was a coworker at one time and someone
that I can call a friend.
So I want to welcome DeninePappalardo to Life GLOSS today.
Denine.
Hi,

Audio Only - All Particip (00:47):
thank you.
Oh,

thank

Denine Pappalardo (00:48):
you so much.

I'm so excited to be here.
It's amazing.
Oh my god, I'm going toembarrass you and I'm going to
talk about you a little bit likeyour mother.
Okay.
So hopefully all your family islistening because you've been
busy.
My little friend, you have heldpositions spanning from makeup
artist to SVP of sales andeducation and everything in
between.

(01:10):
You've been held executive rolesat Revlon, Borghese, Estee
Lauder.
Chanel, Carol's daughter, andLVMH, the big dog.
She has amazing stories toshare.
And this, this, These positions,these jobs have afforded her a
very colorful life and career,and she has clocked over 1.

(01:34):
3 million travel miles.
I think you have me beat,Denine.
She is living proof that whereyou start rarely dictates the
road you travel.
You never know where it maylead.
So I'm glad the road has led youhere.
We are so I'm so happy that youare here with us today on Life

(01:55):
Gloss and welcome as our finalguest of 2024.
WelcomDenineeen

Audio Only - All Pa (02:02):
Pappalardo.
Thank

you.
Thank you so much.
It's so great to meet Hillary,which is so exciting.
And just to see you again,Susan, we worked together at the
big double C's for quite sometime and it was amazing to keep
in touch and to be able to be apart of this incredible year of
this podcast.
To finalize and be that lastguest.
Thank you so much.

(02:23):
I appreciate it.

I know Hillary's really excited to hear all the
stories that you have and someof them I know, some of them I
don't know, and I think ourlisteners will really benefit,
no pun intended from, more onthat in a minute from so many of
your stories, but not just yourstories, Denine.
Thank you so much.
Also you have your finger on thepulse of really what's happening

(02:46):
in the industry as a cosmeticindustry today.
So we want to dive a little bitinto that as well.
First question that I have foryou is, you made the transition,
which most people don't knowunless they really know you from
the theater to a life of beauty.
Similar to Bobby Brown, shestarted in theater theater
makeup as did I, and the theaterin general, and then you went

(03:08):
into the beauty world, and somany of individuals that we
worked with do have a backgroundin the performing arts, and a
lot of us just naturallynavigate to these beauty
companies, these beautypositions, but which role, and
I'm not talking theaternecessarily, but which role
plays In the cosmetic industry,would you say has been your

(03:31):
favorite so far?

Yeah.
So it's interesting with thetheater background, what I think
you learn to navigate throughjust naturally by doing it.
I started when I was 11 yearsold.
So I was in that world for over10 years, just growing up.
And so it was about the people.
Like that literally, and it'sabout reading people.
It's about in order to do acharacter, you have to actually

(03:56):
understand the person thatyou're playing, right?
So I spent a ton of time in mylife, like in my childhood and
my young adulthood, just reallypaying attention to what makes
people tick.
And I was always fascinated bythat.
So then once I, fell into thisindustry, which literally was
positions, working at the mall,doing makeup artistry, like you

(04:19):
all did.
And doing fragrance modeling andjust picking up hours in between
all of my theater, my musicgigs.
And that's literally how I gotinto it.
And it was that excitement.
It was the theater of being in astore that drew me to it.
And it became so natural, butmost importantly, like when I

(04:39):
put a person in that chair, bythe time they got up, they just
felt better.
Like no matter how they feltwhen they sat down, they felt
better.
And I knew that like thatconnection was making a
difference and it was, reallydealing with the consumer, with
that client.
I fell into sales and I've done,like you mentioned, like all of

(05:01):
these different sales andeducation jobs.
But my favorite position isalways anything that leads me to
where I can actually still touchthat consumer, talk to them, see
what like makes them passionateabout using products and, keeps
them excited.
I've always leaned towards thesell through piece of it because

(05:24):
I find that to be the mostenergetic.
Although I do both.
So I, the jobs where you doboth, VP of sales, as VP of
sales is great and it's great tosee how that synergy is between
the two.
But ultimately it's that sellthrough with the people piece
that really just drives me homefor sure.
It's so rare.

Yeah, it's so rare to hear that because
Hillary and I both know, andwe've had experience with this,
where someone comes in to thecosmetic industry and they
started out on the selling floorlike we all did.
And they started out as a makeupartist and then they work up in
the ranks and then you never seethem again.
They go to what we used to callthe ivory tower.

(06:05):
The ivory tower.
Exactly.
The ivory tower.
And they're so far away from theconsumer.
And the pulse of what's going onin the world.
So I think it's wonderful that'ssomething that you still, to
this day, over 30 years later,you still want to interact with
the consumer.
That's so rare, Denine, butthat's so

Audio Only - All Parti (06:26):
Actually get out of touch.

Yeah, you can't, the consumer is what is
going to tell you the bestproduct is

Hillary Clark-Mina (06:32):
every single time.
The consumer is the one.
Yeah.
And they bid with their walletsand the brand wins or not based
on that.
And it's so interesting when youwere talking about.
Theater in the background andthe selling floor is a stage
because when Sephora came to theU S I helped open Sephora for
support.
com, but they literally theirsales floor was called the

(06:54):
stage.
Those people were called thecast.
And even in the beginning, theyhad one glove for presentation
and it's all theater, as someonethat considered psychology and
then stayed in beauty, cause Iwas like, I can do more good.
With men and women in my chairsitting at a counter that I
could with them laying on acouch.

(07:15):
So I'm hearing everything you'resaying and it makes me all warm
and fuzzy inside.

I love that.
And I, it's funny, I rememberjust one specific person, like I
had a cancer patient that wasstarting to lose her eyebrows.
She was, Just looking, her skintone was just so grayed out, she
didn't know what to do.
And I just remember like sittingher in that chair and just
showing her, not just doing it,but showing her like, this is

(07:39):
how you can do it yourself.
It's actually a lot easier thanyou think.
It only takes, I'll give you thejust few steps.
I know you don't have a lot ofenergy to put into this.
So we'll do the least amount ofeffort for the most return.
And we just both cried andhugged each other.
Like when we were done, like itwas the most, uplifting, amazing
experience.
And I, to this day, 35 yearslater, remember that.

(08:02):
And it was very early on andthat, that memory just drive, it
just drives me to do that.
And even when I'm sitting in aboardroom, even when I'm,
talking to a CEO, CFO, itdoesn't matter at the end of the
day, I always bring it back tothe people because they have to
remember if it wasn't for oursales teams, touching those
consumers at point of sale.

(08:24):
We wouldn't have a job.
None of us would have a job.
And that's really what my rolewas.
So anytime I did that side ofit, which always wasn't as fun
as actually being in the stores,but I remind I would remind
myself, okay, this is, I'm theiradvocate.
This is what I'm going in for.
And, we'll help get them whatthey need to be successful.

It's so refreshing.
And that, that's really thebeautiful side of beauty, is the
touching of people.
Like I've had the, thoseexperiences with people
surviving and they're crying andtheir husband's crying.
And it's just.
It's we, it seems a littlelipstick, how could a little
lipstick change a life, but alittle lipstick can really
change someone's life.
And that's what Susan and Ilove.

(09:06):
And that's why we love doingthis podcast and she and I have
grown up together seeing thishappen.
So there is a beautiful side tobeauty, but that brings me to my
question about the ugly side ofbeauty.
There is that as well.

Audio Only - All Participa (09:19):
What a

segue, right?
So sometimes our beautyindustry, it can be downright
ugly, and we know that.
And it's not always the kindestplace to work.
Of course.
Was there a time that youstruggled personally or
professionally with your imageor with aging in beauty?
In this industry, how did younavigate it?

(09:39):
And, we can discuss body, bodyimage, aging.
It's, I remember when I firststarted, I was the youngest
beauty director.
So I had to color my hair reallydark and wear my glasses to look
older.
And now I'm like, Oh, if I'mnot, dressed in a certain way,
people are like, nah, she's theold lady in the room.
What's your take on that?

Yeah.
It's interesting.
I've had since birth, I think, avery difficult road of body
image concepts with myself.
And what I found really toughtoo, is that I always ended up
in industries and surroundedfrom age 11 in, places where how
you look was important.
I, Had these struggles as achild, but then I put myself in

(10:23):
these places that made it evenharder.
So I had dance teachers andtheater teachers and, people
telling me you have to look acertain way.
You have to be a certain way forthis role for this, this
production.
So that really started it and itstarted me just really being
critical of everything aboutmyself, and it's my face my
body, all of it it was reallydifficult.

(10:45):
And by the time I got throughhigh school, I went through some
pretty difficult.
Eating disorders, and I wouldjust pretty much do whatever it
took to look as good as I couldfor that performance to be
whatever that image was in mybrain.
And, back then we didn't havesocial media, thank God but we
did have Vogue magazine.
So there's that and that wasback in the day when, Cindy

(11:08):
Crawford and all of the the aplus models were, literally
being faced with us every day.
And those.
huge billboards in magazines.
And, we all wanted to be thatwhen we were kids.
And then you add that you're inthe theater world and music
world, and it's just a lot ofpressure on a kid.
And then once I transitionedinto this world, the good news

(11:31):
is in between these two stages,I actually fell into
bodybuilding.
Which I know sounds a littlecrazy but I had an injury when I
was dancing and I couldn't danceas as difficulty, proceeded over
time.
And so I started going tophysical therapy and they were
like, wow, you're really strong.

(11:52):
And I'm like, yeah, I'm adancer.
My, my legs are, I could presswhen I first tried to press, I
could press 600 pounds with mylegs, if you can imagine.
And that's just from being adancer.
And so I started going to thegym and, following up and all
these guys who I happen to be ata gym where they were doing a
bodybuilding competitions andthese guys just kept looking at

(12:14):
me and watching me train and I'mpaying no attention to anything.
I'm like, laser focus, just, getmy workout in and finally
they're like, okay, look, allyou got to do is a little change
here, a little change there.
And you can actually do this anddo shows.
So I'm like, Hey, I've done allsorts of other shows.
Let's give this a shot.
And I would get free training inexchange for for doing their

(12:37):
routines and helping tochoreograph their routines.
So we just had a little bartersystem going and it was that
taught me like how to be veryextra healthy with how I look at
my body.
And see that the way my body isbuilt, it's because I have a
different structure and I'm amuch stronger body type versus a

(12:58):
thin, tiny ballerina type.
And I learned to embrace thatand it was great.
That being said, then I was justabout approaching into cosmetics
at the time.
I was doing shows while I wasworking actually at Revlon.
And That's when, again, thepressure really started, right?
And you had to wear your hairlike you were mentioning, Hil
Hillary.
You had to wear your hair acertain way.

(13:19):
My hair was pulled back for somany years.
I have no hairline at thispoint.
It just my hairline starts backhere.
It just Like literally I had aheadache every day.
I was like, what is that?
Like what is happening?
It had to be slicked back and ithad to be like that for a number
of companies.
And by the time, we got to thedouble C's, everybody wanted to

(13:40):
look like Coco, right?
That's, we all wanted to bethat.
I've had really great bosses andI've had some really tough ones.
And, some of them have said,Hey, You want to make sure that
your team looks a certain way.
You want to make sure thatyou're, you're thin and you're
fit, because, that's the imagethat we want to portray here at
this company.
Like I was taken aside multipletimes and there are members of

(14:03):
your team or there's this andlike literally blown away.
Like I remember being completelyblown away by it, but at the
same time going, yeah, that'sthis industry that we're in and
thank, thankfully over time.
Things have changed.
Now, yes, I think those biasesare still there, but they're

(14:25):
quiet, so those opinions arequiet.
You can't say these things topeople anymore.
You could never pull somebodyaside and say they need to
change the way they look thisway or that way.
But but it's still there.
It's an undercurrent, and itjust never goes away.
And there's a part of me thatbecause I've been dealing with
this my whole life I wonder, isit me, right?

(14:45):
Am I just like putting that intoit?
Because that's my experience.
But I don't think so.
Because I still see it outthere.
And, now I'm 58 years old, 58years young.
And it's interesting to see howI perceive myself now.
I, work out like crazy because Ithink that's my sanity in all of

(15:07):
it.
But.
It's still a struggle and itwill always be like, I think
that once you have that itreally never goes away.
It's just something that youlearn to live with and learn to
manage.
And my healthy side that Ilearned is I think what's gotten
me through it, especially atthis age, because at this age, a
lot of people struggle and I'vebeen lucky because I knew what

(15:30):
to do because it's so importantfor

people to be able to hear.
And I think you're sharing yourexperiences is.
Is really going to touch a lotof people because people don't
talk this openly about thesethings.
So thank you.

They don't and they should, because you
know what it's like, and thisis, we all have struggles that
we deal with.
And I was just, I literally justhad dinner the other night with
two of my friends.
We used to work at Barbizonmodeling schools back in Back in
the day in the 80s, late 80s,early 90s.
And, we had that too.
In the conversations we wouldget and we were talking about

(16:05):
that, and how we all lookamazing, like for who we are for
our age at this point, but westill can't get those 19, 20
year old mall models brains,like we can't get that out of
our heads.
And we still look at ourselvesthat way.
And, We make sure we touch baseregularly to say, Hey, stop it.
Don't do that.
You're beautiful.

(16:25):
Brutal.

Barbizon was particularly known for being
brutal.

Yeah.
I think anyone in the industry,I know for myself, I've not met
anyone in our industry that hasnot been somehow affected by our
industry as a whole.
And I think that for women,especially, I know for me, I am

(16:55):
completely damaged from, havingworked in the beauty industry
from doing runway shows and likeyou, Denine, growing up in the
theater and dancing.
You and I have pretty muchalmost identical, We have the
same trauma.
It's great.
We legitimately We legitimatelytrauma bonded at one time.

(17:16):
I'm sure, Denine.
And I know for myself, it's aconstant daily struggle.
I don't think for a second thatit will ever escape me.
It's just how you deal with it.
I think that it's still, yousaid something earlier that
really touched me and it was Youknow, you can't say things
anymore.
And the stuff that we used tosay, or I was told that I had to

(17:39):
say to employees was gutwrenching to me and devastating
to me.
And that undercurrent.
Is 100 percent still there andanyone that says it isn't is not
telling the truth.
There is still an undercurrentin our industry of you have to
look a certain way.
You have to act a certain way.

(18:01):
You have to be a certain way.
We are selling an image.
We are selling a fantasy.
It's what it's all about, butit's still there.
I'd like to think the optimisticside of me would like to think
it's getting better.
And I think maybe to a point itis.
You can't actually say thesethings to people, but that
undercurrent, it's like a littlesimmering pot.

(18:22):
It's the foundation is onsimmer.
It's not boiling, but it's onsimmer and it's still there.
I will

say the thing, the good thing that I've
seen is a change.
And I've been a part of brandsthat are like this is they,
There are brands whosefoundation is on being who you
are and being the best for you.
And I've seen that happen overtime.
Brands I've recently worked withhave been like that as well, and

(18:50):
they really worked hard to givethat message.
And I have to say, everyone camein every shape, size, ethnicity.
It was amazing.
That is the part of, that brandthat I loved so very much is
that they really did practicewhat they preached when it came
to that.
And I'm seeing smaller brandscome up in the ranks that are

(19:12):
being birthed on that platform.
And again, like that to me isprogress, right?
Like I'm seeing that.
And I loved being a part ofthat.
And for anything in future thatis something that I look for
because I've done thoseconversations as well and it's
hard.
For knowing how I felt andknowing what my background, like

(19:32):
I literally, you might as welltake, just pull my heart right
out and throw it on the floor.
Like I, it, it wasn't easy.
No, and I wouldn't do it.
There was times when I just saidno, I'm not doing it.
You want to have thatconversation?

There were a few that, I didn't touch or I would
preface with they want me totell you this.
This is not me saying this.
This has nothing to do with mybeliefs, but this is what
they're thinking.
And I would just hang people outto dry, like I didn't care.
It was like, I'm not taking thebullet for this because I don't
believe you should have tochange your hair.

(20:04):
Or you should have to changeyour size or, any of this type
of stuff.
But it's tough, are, I thinksome of it is the industry and I
think some of it Is the age weare, Denine.
It's any woman over 50 knowsthat even though we didn't grow
up with social media, we grew upwith seeing the pictures in the
magazines.

(20:25):
And I at times say to my teenagedaughter, who's 18 now, and
thank God she has nothing to dowith our industry whatsoever,
There

you go.
God, okay.
She's I remember your babyshower, that's all I'm saying,
but go ahead.
That's crazy.
How is she

18?

Audio Only - All Partic (20:44):
Solange

is going to college next year.
I know.
But thank God she has nothing todo with our industry.
And I say that, please guys,don't, any listeners Don't
strike us down, but yes.
We don't hate what we do.
We obviously love and have apassion for what we do.
But I am grateful my daughternever did.
theater or modeling or and shecould have but she never did any

(21:10):
of that world.
And I kept her away from thebeauty world on purpose because
I needed her to develop as ahuman on her own without those
influences.
And it's funny because I do havefriends who say to me, for your
background, it's amazing yourdaughter is the way that she is.
And I'm grateful for that.
But I also think, she neverreally was on social media.

(21:31):
She's really not on it much nowat all.
So it's interesting.
People say don't you think thisgeneration has it harder because
of social media?
And I say, you know what?
Sometimes yes, but sometimes Ithink, We might have had it
harder because the models weresuch a big thing and the
magazines were so big and thebillboards and I don't know,

(21:53):
it's is one better is one worse.
I don't know, but it's all bad.

Yeah, that's really interesting Susan because
we had so fewer touch points forwhat was acceptable and perfect,
whereas now with social media.
Everybody's in all differentshapes and sizes, and they're
talking about what theirperfection is.
And even though their life maybe a disaster, you're seeing a
tiny little corner of it that'sall prepped and primed, and you
don't know what the rest oftheir, room even looks like,

(22:20):
much less their life.
But for us, it was, we wereserved such small servings of
what was acceptable.
So if you didn't have the color,if you didn't have the skin, if
you didn't have the height.
You just were automaticallyexcluded and you were less than,
whereas maybe now there's more.
So that's interesting, Susan,that you say that because I
think they were both, they'reboth hard, but

yeah.
It's all tough.
And I think it will always, youryouth is always a part of that,
right?
Trying to decide who you are.
What you should look like, whatyou should be like, all of those
things surrounded by yourfriends and wherever you are,
that's going to help, form thator dictate that.
I don't know.
I don't think it'll ever goaway.
But what I love, like I wassaying, is I do love that there

(23:04):
are.
Some like brands out there.
There are places that arefocusing on trying to at least
get that message out.
And I agree, like I think socialmedia at least is showing a
broader range of what'shappening out there.

Because I think so.
I think I think Hillary makes avery good point that it was.
Great.
So tiny.
So we lobbed onto it almost sohard because we were desperate
for, things to look up to oraspirational beauty and things
like that.
But now to Hillary's point, we,they were so inundated that I
think so many girls and womenshut it off and they're like, I

(23:44):
don't even know where to lookanymore.
So I'm just going to not evenlook.
So it almost has that backlashwhere it's just become so broad.
Maybe people aren't caring asmuch.
I don't know, but I do to yourpoint, Dean, I am hopeful that
we've made so many great changesin the industry that are moving
towards more of a positive imageand feeling good.

(24:04):
Like Hillary and I always say inthis podcast, if you want to get
out of bed today and put on somelip gloss, good for you.
If you want to stay on yourcouch and wear nothing or never
wear makeup again, still listento us because we talk about
other stuff than just Thevisual,

right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
It's a, and it's a work inprogress.
We're a work in progress, right?
All of us every single day.
It's not over until it's over.
I always say that.

And Denine, you've had a huge journey, for
the past few years now.
And I think you were kind enoughto, you just shared so much with
us on a personal level which isso wonderful.
And now we want to go.
Even deeper with you and reallytalk about this journey that
you've recently had as as abusinesswoman, as a spouse, as a

(24:52):
daughter, as a sister, as afriend, you've suffered one of
the greatest losses.
And I say this Not just becauseof the passing of Bill and you
lost a spouse, but I don't thinka lot of people know this is
someone you knew your entirelife.
Basically you, we used to jokeat work that you were a child

(25:13):
bride.
You were a child.
Can you share with us what'sbeen going on in your life
journey a little bit?

Absolutely.
Yeah.
To your point is, and I gotmarried when Three months before
my 18th birthday.
I know.
My husband was my legal guardianfor three months and he used to,
believe me, he lorded that overme for as long as he could get
away with it.
And

let me just say, he was.

Yeah, you knew him, yeah.

God rest his soul, Dineen.
Amazing man.
And you really, honestly, inthis lifetime, you lucked out.
He was an outstanding human andhe was a great man.
And you guys, The love there wasjust, it was incredible.
Yeah.

I was very lucky and it's funny because now
looking back, you never know whythings happen to you in your
life when they happen to you.
And I'm one of the things I dothrough various journey
journeys, and I've done thissince the beginning of my life
as I journal.
And I do that because I love toromanticize things.
I'm a romantic.
I'm in theater.

(26:20):
I love, I love to make thingsbeautiful and I put twists on
things all the time.
And that's a good thing, butsometimes it's not a good thing.
I write them down because I wantto go back And if I'm struggling
with something periodically overtime, I like to just go back to
the journey so that I can put itin perspective.
And I find that to be probablyone of my best tools throughout

(26:41):
my life that's helped me throughthe eating disorders and now
through this journey.
So Bill and I got married superyoung.
And now that I look back, Ibasically say, I didn't know at
the time, but I needed to getmarried that young in order for
us to have 36 years together.

Audio Only - All Participan (26:56):
And

which is crazy.
But, and we always thought,literally Bill would say this
all the time.
We'd go to a wedding.
He'd be like, Oh, the dancewhere they're like, you get up
there.
If it's been, 10 years, 20years, 30 years, 40 years, he
goes, we're going to make 50years plus easy.
And that, he always used to saythat.
And little did we know, wedidn't have that much time.

(27:17):
What happened, which was,probably, again, timing in life.
So on February, in February, theweek of Valentine's day, 2020,
he was diagnosed with pancreaticcancer.
And if you remember February of2020, about two weeks later, we
went on lockdown.
Yep.

(27:37):
And it literally, if you canimagine dealing with cancer and
it is not curable and you areabsolutely going to die from it
and lockdown at the same time,it was insane.
Like there, there aren't even,there aren't even words to put
to it.

(27:58):
And what was so crazy is that,we didn't have any help.
We had help, we had emotionalhelp, because people, obviously
had calls, but nobody could comeover.
You couldn't, if you expected tohave him live the year that we
wanted him to live, year and ahalf, because really he only
should have lived about sixmonths at that stage, and he
did, he lived for a year and ahalf and I am telling you, The

(28:21):
pandemic was actually a positivething for us, even though it was
difficult.
It kept me home.
I don't know what I would havedone because it's not like you
can just pick up and stopworking for a year and a half.
We needed the insurance.
We needed, we needed to havethat income.

(28:41):
So I couldn't have stopped, butat the same time, my job was
traveling everywhere.
So if it wasn't for thepandemic, I honestly don't know
how I would have handled it.
That being said, we alsocouldn't have people come in.
So it was unbelievably hard.
I was, doing all the cooking,doing all the cleaning.
taking care of his meds, gettinghim to and from doctor's

(29:02):
appointments, being on thevirtual appointments, making
sure that I literally wasreading up on all of it.
I, we were doing crazy trialsthat didn't exist.
Like literally I'm like, I readabout this.
What do you think?
Should we try it?
And he's Yeah, I don't know.
We don't see the studies.
I'm like, come on guys.
He's dying.
What let's try it.

(29:22):
So that's what it was like.
And meanwhile, I was workingfull time and on zoom full time.
I remember one, at one pointSitting in a hospital room
because at this point theyactually let us go to the, let
me in because most of the time,anytime I had to drop him off, I
couldn't even go in.
It was getting a little bitbetter.
This was towards the end and hehad an operation and I was

(29:43):
literally sitting in his room inthe hospital while he was off at
the operation and I was doing aZoom call with the entire
Salesforce doing like a salesmeeting update.
And I'm just sitting here andliterally I get off the call and
I'm just like, what am I doing?

(30:03):
This is insane.

How was the beauty industry?
Were they supportive

of you?
Yeah, but again, it was thepandemic, right?
So nobody had their footing.
Everybody like didn't know whatto do.
Where it got really hard wasonce things opened up and we all
had to go back, right?
And they, they were on, I can't,my CEO was so supportive of me.
I could never ever thank themenough.

(30:29):
It was amazing.
But what I will tell you about agrief journey like this, and
this is what people don'tunderstand or know.
Unless you go through ityourself, like I said, we were
together since I was 16 is whenwe, we're dating.
So I was 16 years old.
He's all I knew in my life, likefrom that world.
He was my partner in everything.

(30:49):
And when you lose that, like youlose a part of yourself, it's a
part of your own identity.
And then there's the physicalthings I had to sell my house.
I had to downsize.
I, had to do all, figure out allof these things to be on my own,
which luckily.
Because I traveled so much,being alone wasn't as horrible

(31:11):
or shocking because I was alonehalf the time.
So at least I had thatadjustment, but it's now all of
a sudden, who am I?
If I'm not Bill's wife, who amI?
And when I went back, I was justvery lost.
And that first year, it'sinteresting because You're in a

(31:31):
fog and you don't really feel asmuch.
So you're just like just goingthrough the motions.
And like I said, I sold my, Idid all the things you're not
supposed to do the first year.
I sold my house, I moved, I didall these things.
And I just kept going and going,but then when the second year
hit.

(31:52):
Now that fog is gone and thereality just like whacks you in
the head.
And it's interesting because youcan go about your life and
you're fine.
And then all of a sudden youjust cry.
You just are in a place and youjust wail like there, like it
just comes from a place that youdon't even know where it comes
from.
And I still, three and a halfyears later, I still have that,
but it's less like it's less andless as time goes on.

(32:15):
But my message to anyone thathas anyone that's gone through
this.
Don't forget about year two,don't forget about year three
with your friends, with yourfamily members that are going
through this because it's thereand they're hiding it from you
because they don't want you tofeel bad anymore.
Nobody wants the person, thepeople around you to feel

(32:37):
awkward.
And everybody's awkward.
Death is awkward.
Nobody wants to talk about it,right?
And I've always, since thebeginning, I'm very, I'm a very
open person.
Like I'm an open book and Iwill, give you whatever
information in my life I can, ifit's going to help somebody.
And, I've had people six monthsin literally say to me, these
are like coworkers, do you misshim?

(33:01):
And I looked at them and I wasjust like, I have no words.
There's no words to answer thatquestion.
Of course, every day of my life.
And I will every day of my life.
I

think it's tricky.
I think people, my mother alwayssaid that she said, the funeral
is the easy part.
Oh, for sure.
It's the years later.
That it hits you.
It's after, it's down the roadthat you need that support.

Yeah,

and they

say, and people basically want you to I
should be okay now, like in theeyes of the world.
I should be okay.
It's been three and a halfyears.
I'm doing my thing.
I'm doing what I, but I willalways feel it.

You're never going to be the same.
Our society, not only globally,but I feel like America,
especially we do not teachpeople about grief.
We don't, everyone knows thatthere are, the five phases of
grief, the five stages, but.
It's never given like it's spaceand it's time and it's honor.

(34:03):
Even when I lived in Europe, Inoticed that they take the time
and it's built in that, like thegrief is going to be visceral,
it's going to be real and itshould affect every part of your
life.
Like you should be gone fromwork and healing, and you should
be able to do a lot of thedifferent things.
It's different country bycountry and culture by culture.
But as Americans, it's we'rejust tough and we cowboy up and

(34:25):
soldier It's and sometimes evenwith women I feel like We have a
lot more to prove in a way, andI'm not going to go, wave some
big feminist flag, because Idon't, I feel that has been a
disservice to us in some waystoo.
It's a whole different podcast.
Yes.
There is a different set ofstandards for women and we're
expected to be, weak and broken,but also so strong that nobody

(34:49):
knows.
And if we cry, it makes everyoneso uncomfortable that.
We have to hold it together, butI think we need to learn to be
better about grief, and it'sreal and if you don't process it
if you push it down or speed itup or force it through it's
going to come back so much

worse.
The biggest bit misnomer is thatthose stages.
they think people think that yougo through the stages and you're
done.
No, you go through it the cycleand over and over and over and
over again.
So it's just okay, where are youtoday?
Because it vacillates wildly.
Like it's an, it's interesting.
It's an interesting journey.
Like I still, I'm reinventingevery part of myself at this

(35:29):
point.
And it's.
It's new every day.

How has that been?
Has that been fun?
You sold a house, you'redecorating on your own really
for the first time in your adultlife.
So I'm seeing your beautifulbackgrounds, you're choosing
colors.
It looks like bring you joy andyou're infusing that.
So like you're building yourfirst home on your own from 17
to 58.
And Not the adventure you choseor maybe the adventure you'd

(35:55):
want, but it's the adventurethat we're on.
So how is that going?
Are you discovering, wow, I likethat color.
I like that thing.

And yeah, that's exactly what's happened.
And it's, I was lucky, like Isaid prior, because I also had a
place in San Francisco when Iwas working there.
So I was able to do that therealso on my own at that point.
So I've always had some placethat was mine in addition to
being both mine and Bill's.
But it's cool.
Cause now like here, I'veblended all the things that I

(36:22):
love and all of the places thatI've been in my life.
And I've moved over 25 times inmy life, which is crazy.
And I, but I love it.
I love to decorate.
So that's a, a project to loseyourself in.
But I love it.
It's great.
I feel very comfortable here.
It's absolutely mine.
It's, but then there's timeswhen it's very lonely, right.
And It's tough.
Like that part of it's tough.

(36:43):
And I don't like, I still haveall my friends.
My friend group is insane.
They're just always there forme, but that's different too.
Cause it's a lot of couples,right?
It's mostly couples.
And so that's awkward andeverybody, because I have such a
broad range of where I am, likeI have friends in California, I
have friends in Chicago.
I have friends in New York,Miami.

(37:05):
Naples, Florida, Texas, like I'mall over the place.
And that's hard to do alone too.
So it's, it's an adjustment.
It for sure is an adjustment,but at the same time, I look at
everything, I'm lucky to bebreathing today.
So I'm just going to get up and,do the best thing that I can and
experience what I can.
So it's changed my perspectivefor sure.
I'm much more purposeful.

(37:26):
Yeah.

I think the pandemic did that people change
people, some for the good orsome for the bad.
I remember in the very earlydays of it happening, I had just
had a big surgery.
So I was like, I couldn't move.
I couldn't do anything.
And I was watching the worldcome crashing down.
And it seemed like I was in LosAngeles.
And I very quickly at one point,I thought, this is weird.

(37:47):
This is going to go on for along time and I'm either going
to come out of this better orworse.
And which is it going to be?
And I made up my mind reallyearly on.
I'm going to come out of thiswith something to show for it
and not, survive it and justsurvive it.
But you had such a different.
Experience in that you got tohave a very close intimate time

(38:10):
with him during a time that whoknows where you would have been
pulled in and what influencesmay have been able to come in,
but to almost have a privatebubble, even though it was hard
because you didn't get to havethe help you still, I hope there
was a little piece in there.

There was.
And it was interesting becausewe had tried to sell our home a
couple of years prior to that.
And we were going to downsizejust.
Because we, thought we didn'tneed the space anymore and it
fell through and again anotherthing like we little did we know
we were going to be in thatspace 24 seven and it had this
big huge yard and so we wereable at points to have people

(38:49):
come and just spend time withhim but like you know be
distanced.
So if we were in a townhouselike I am now like there's no
way like everybody's on top ofeach other.
Again, it's like the timing ofall of it.
It was divine timing for sure.
For sure.
And it was a blessing.
It was a blessing and a curse,but I think more on the side of

(39:10):
the blessing, I believe.

Audio Only - All Participant (39:13):
Oh boy.
Yeah.

It's a lot.
I know it's a lot.
It's a lot to process.
I'm still processing it all, butit's a lot.
I've, I have friends and thathave been through this as well
and everybody has a differentoutlook and everybody has
different timelines for grievingand, different ways that it
looks.
Again, I can't get the messageout enough, just be patient with
people because it's justdifferent.
It's a very difficult journey.

(39:35):
And it's very different.
It's different than a divorce.
It's different.
You didn't.
This is, there is no choice inany of this.
And if this didn't happen, wewould still be together today.
So it's,

yeah, that's, it's tricky because, especially
in the positions that you'veheld, you've always been,
someone who's very in control oftheir career and very in control
and made very strong choices inyour, beauty career, Denine.
And this is something that youabsolutely Had no control over
that in itself had to be justdebilitating at times, I'm sure.

(40:14):
And at the same time, I love howyou're looking at this as only
someone coming from a theaterand beauty fantasy world would,
there's a beautiful lesson inall of this, and you can look at
this as, you don't want to say,Oh, look at death as a gift,
but.
You really cherished the timethat you had with him and now

(40:36):
you have come out a differentperson and you've been given
that gift of You now get to bewhomever you want to be for the
rest of your life.
So it's just, it's sointeresting.
Your take, you come at it as Iknew you would from such a
beautiful angle.

Yeah.

But

I will say that part of it is a little
daunting.
I'm like, Oh, that's a lot.
What am I going to do?
But it's interesting because, Ihave said that even from the
beginning, that this is almostlike a reset button.
And and because I was so young,when we got married, it's
interesting doing the things nowthat people did in their teen

(41:19):
time.
And like doing it as an adult.
Dating is insanity.
At this age, after being withthe same

person.
Oh my god, and you're oh my god,I don't mean to make a joke, but
you've known me not long enoughthat I'm going to make a joke.
Because that's, I'm the one wholaughs at funerals.
Yes, I do too.
It's I want you to write a book,like the beauty guide and
widow's guide to, the widow'sguide to menopause, and dating.
Yeah.
You're like going through

all of it at once.
Yeah.
It's insanity.
Yeah.
It's insanity with body imageproblems.
Yeah.
It's great.
It's it's fantastic.

I know that I know my mom is standing in her
kitchen listening to this partof the episode.
She's finally you got to thispart.
Cause she's, she just turned 70.
Yesterday.
She's dating.
She's dating.
And she's it's crazy aroundhere.
This is nuts.
And my husband and I met late.

(42:13):
We've only been married almostthree years.
So dating for me, that's part ofthe way that I met him is he was
a friend of a friend and Ithought he'd be safe to test
date.
And here we are.

This is the thing, right?
Okay.
So the biggest challenge Is thewhole like app thing.
I'm like, oh no, hell no,because it's just not real.
Sorry, people believe anythinglike I'm not going to go sit on
a shelf next to other people.
No, I mean on Facebook, I find Iam getting 25 fake widow,

(42:43):
because I did put down that I'ma widow like on my profile.
So little did I know now all ofa sudden I'm getting 25 of these
a day and they're all generalslike in the army somewhere and
they're like stationed in these,and I'm just like, come on guys.
Nothing is real.
Like it's crazy.
And I don't trust it.
So unless it's a friend of afriend or someone I knew in high
school.

(43:03):
I keep dating people that I knewback when I was 15 it's crazy,
but it's, that's the thing,right?
Like I need somebody to bet themout.
Somebody has got to be vetted.
Absolutely.

Yeah, I agree with you.
I, yeah, I think you need to besafe out there.
And for any of our listenersthat are, older women that are
widowed or separate or divorced.
I always say, God, if God forbidI'm out there again in my life
at one time, like you have to beso careful out there.
It's a crazy world.
So I'm with you to stay offthose damn psycho apps and talk

(43:38):
to your friends.
That's how I met my husband on ablind date.
My parents met on a blind dateand they've been married for,
you Oh, 600 years now.
They can send

their resumes here and Susan and I
will screen them for you.
That's fantastic.
And you can send your resume toyou.
And Susan and I will suss itout.

So matchmaking will be your other
side.
Everything

grows organically, right?
I love

it.
Love it.
Yeah, it's tough.
It's, I've got a lot of stories.
All I can say is both in thatand then also people looking for
positions or ghosting.
Ghosting is the thing that Ifind to be the most insane.
thing that's happening in theworld in general.
It's just like all of a suddenone minute you're like in it and

(44:27):
like you're going on and on, thenext minute nothing.
Gone, out of there, never hearfrom them again.
Then all of a sudden you hearfrom them and they're back again
oh yeah, like I just talked toyou yesterday, it's fine.
Hey, so let's pick up where,what?

What?
No.

What?
No.

Audio Only - All Participan (44:41):
Who

does this?

They're out looking at other offices.

Audio Only - All Parti (44:43):
Everyone does this.

I'm sorry.
How is it out there kickingtires?
You turned around and it mustnot have been that great, right?
What is wrong with

people?
It's weird.
It's really weird.
It's we've managed to allow thisthing where we can just not do
the difficult conversationsthat's, I think at the end of
the day, that's what it is.
Nobody wants to just say, I'mnot ready.
Or, this just isn't working outright now, or the timing's
wrong, or whatever, justcommunicate.

Hillary Clark-M (45:11):
Accountability.

Communicate.
Yeah,

the difficult conversations are
where all the good stuff is.
Yeah, for sure,

but it's yeah, it's been an interesting
journey and people come out ofthe woodworks and it's it's been
interesting for sure.
So we were going to ask you whatis the next

10 years like for Denine, but I think
it's a work in progress and whatfun to go back, even five years
from now and read back on yourjournals from now and, it's a
for

documenting.
I do think the book might besomething that'll happen because
I have documented pretty much myentire life.
I think I'm going to definitelypull, I'm just not sure what the
take is going to be yet.
So I've got to work on that.
But, and part of it too, like Ithink the grief journey, I
think, the eating disorderjourney, like a lot of those
things are things that people.
Don't want to talk about night.
I feel very comfortable talkingabout them.

(46:03):
Maybe that is something that Ican, put a twist on it, but make
it fun because everything's fun.
Like it's life.
I always make a joke out ofeverything.

And, we wouldn't be a beauty podcast on
LifeGLOSS.
Yes.
All if we didn't also ask you,what are your three.
favorite makeup products thatyou're using right now?
What are you loving?

Yeah.
That's a tough question for mebecause I'm the girl who has a
bag of a hundred things.
So that's tough to narrow itdown to three, but I will tell
you.
So Right now I have to say thealpha beta daily pads from Dr.
Dennis Gross.
Those are great.
Those are like one of myfavorite skincare items and I'm

(46:44):
religious about it and it'scrazy, but I just went to pick
them up at a spa that I go toand they have a cleanser now, or
not a cleanser, a moisturizerthat I just picked up and
started using that also is inthat family and it's brand new
and I love it.
Like it's got such great.
Just the great viscosity and itjust feels so good.
And and it definitely plumps theskin up.

(47:05):
It looks amazing.
So I'm a huge Dr.
Dennis Gross fan.
Like I, I love it.
All right.

We'll link those two.
Then I'm

going to throw some curve balls.
Everything's eyes, when you'rethis age, the eyes are the tough
ones, right?
The the eye is the center,right?
To the soul of your universe.
So I'm always worried aboutthat.
REM Beauty has a dep puffing gelthat you can use under
concealer, and it is surprising,like it was the most surprising

(47:36):
product I've ever used.
Again, it's, I'm all about telike texture.
Yeah.
It has one of the coolesttextures I've ever used.
Really.
And it just like literally justsmooths everything out.
And you can use it under or ontop of your concealer.
Really cool.
And it like, it's a blurring.
It's very unique and I juststumbled on it one day and I was
like, wow, this is super cool.

(47:57):
And then the Inkey List isanother one that has an under
eye caffeine eye cream that I'mobsessed with.
Great.
So I use those.
I'm going to

send you an eye product.
You can tell me what you think.
I'm like obsessed with it.
I'm picking up what you'reputting down.
I've got something for you totry.
I want to see what you think.

Cool.
Yeah.
So those are my faves.
And then I just have to throwout like any mascara or brow
product by Benefit Cosmetics.
Love them all.
They're amazing.
That's, I was going to ask

you.
I was going to ask you what yourfavorite mascara is.
Cause I think everyone in ourindustry definitely has probably
six in the drawer, but we havethe one that we always go back
to.

Yeah.
It's funny.
Yeah.
Cause obviously I was with thebrand for a number of years and
every one of them werefantastic, but I have to say
like FanFest is the one thatwas, I

knew you were going to say that.
And

I, my, my least favorite like type of
product ever, even as a makeupartist.
Even today, all these years, isany liquid liner.
I have to use it.
I'm obsessed with using it.
And I hate them all.
So if anyone has found one outthere in the world, please tell

(49:06):
me, because I'm telling you,it's every morning it's stress.
I'm like, okay, I'm doing theeyeliner now.
All right, old eyes stay inplace.
Let's make this happen.
It's tough.
Like liquid eyeliner is one ofthe toughest things to do when
your eyes are aging for sure.

Oh yeah.
My, the location of my wings isdifferent.
I used to be flying like, four,seven, seven up here and now
there are some days when I'mpuffy that I'm like, so we're
not doing that today.
Or I'll just do the Sophia Lorenand stop my liner here and then
go left.
Yep.
Didn't just hate it.
What do you mean?
The corner of my eye,

corner of my eyes?
Wherever I say it is Exactly.
Oh yeah.
And sometimes it just, and itjust keeps getting thicker and
thicker.
'cause your hand's not assteady.
And, and I'm a makeup artist.
I'm like, come on

Now, do you like a pen?
Do you like a, do you like apot?
Do you like a.

What do you like?
It's gotta be liquid.
It's gotta be liquid.
But a liquid on a brush or is it

like a felt tip pen or what is it?
pen.
Yeah.
A felt tip pen.
Okay.

So

I choose to try Valentino's.
Have you tried Valentino's pen?
I

have

not.
It's actually, it's like longbut firm.
It's worth it.
Is it felt tip or is it a brush?
It's felt tip.

Okay.
I really like the it's

not as ridiculous for Valentino, but
Connoisseur.
Cause I, it's

tough.
They're tough to do.
It's just tough.
It's a tough one.
I used

on a video.
What was that?
We just recorded that.
What?
Like the other day, Hill, it'sall meshing now, but we did our,
for our holiday makeup andFenty.
believe it or not, makes a pen.
It's a felt tip pen, but withone of the finest points I've
ever seen in a liquid liner.
And I would recommend that it'ssuper tiny and it's also a short

(50:59):
pen, so you can get more controland it's just really easy.
But I'm telling you, The tip onit is like really tiny.
So it can get right.
You could even do the dots inbetween the lashes if you wanted
to.
Like I'm not a liquid linergirl.
That's not my thing.
So I tried it and I have to tellyou, I thought it was fantastic

(51:23):
and it's really affordable.
That's good.
Yeah.
It's good to have one with

a tiny tip, but it's also good to have one
big wide one.
Cause sometimes I'm like, ifI've got it going, I just want
to keep going.
I'm like, it's in the rightspot.
Layer

down thick.
That's where I use a cream.
I like a cream.
I'm old school.
I like a cream with

a brush.
That's so funny.
So sometimes I find if because Ihave problems with my, I have
bad allergies.
So there are days like today,they're really bad.
So there are days when like myeyelids are so swollen.
I'm like, what am I supposed todo with this?
But for some reason, liquidliner seems to cover a lot of
the sins.
So that's why I tend to go withthat.
But, and also,

you must have in your little kit somewhere,
remember the Chanel cake.
Liner.

Yes.
That is spectacular.
That was good.
Yeah.
It's funny if I get reallydesperate, sometimes I will use
a brush, wet it and actuallyjust go to an eyeshadow.
Yeah.
And like darker eyeshadows andand do that.
And that actually does workpretty well.
Yeah.
I just, sometimes I like thethickness texture.
Of the liquid.
I know what you're saying.
There's something again, I'm atexture girl.

(52:30):
So there's something about thetexture of it that I like.
And I also have oily skin still,which is crazy.
But it will run if it's not.
See, that's why the cake is goodfor you because it dries down.
It has to dry.
Otherwise I'm, I can't usepencils.
Pencils just are everywhere onme.

Oh, I just pulled my lay regard out from
Nineties, I had a tester, andagain on TikTok, a whole like
nineties, Chanel I did my wholeeyes with it.

Hillary eyes still intact.
Thank God, Denine,

you have no idea what I deal with on this light.
I spray it

with alcohol.
No, I didn't dunk in the cloth.
It's not that,

it's bacteria.
We don't know what's cooking.
Can

you please intervene?
I was considering that I wouldspit in it to get the mascara
off.
Oh, here we go.
I swear to you.
This was never in my kit.
This was my personal.

No, she does her vintage.
You need to watch her vintagebeauty channel.
She'll sometimes go in there andshe'll do stuff and she doesn't
tell me what she's doing aheadof time.
Yeah.
Which she should, but shedoesn't because she knows that I
would say as her older

sister,

Hilary, you're not doing that.

Hilary, don't put on that lipstick from
the stork club in the 50s.
Oh my god.
She does that look.
I will watch her videos and Iwill literally start to sweat.
This was the first GWP, if youwill.
This was like the first time.
It was a stork

club.

Look how pretty that

is.
That's beautiful.
Okay, just to be clear, thatshould be next to the flowers on
that display behind you.
Yeah, put that there.
Don't put that on your lips.

So this is the next thing that I'm doing.
Do you guys remember 1989Safari?
Yes.
Oh my I

actually remember this bottle.
But

wait.
Yeah.
Wait.
Oh.
Bronzer.
I got the climate responsebronzer.
You have the bronzer.

Wow.
How'd you get that?
I love that bronzer.
That color was so beautiful.
I have my way.
Wow.

But look.
Oh, I have a Hilary, do you havea tetanus shot bottle?
Yeah.
I'm getting dressed in a safarioutfit and I'm doing the whole
thing on TikTok.
Oh my goodness.
Because this was the first Wait,do you Oh my goodness.
Huh.
Hill.
Yeah.
When was your last

tetanus shot?
I have

three brothers.
I've lived through it all.
That's amazing, guys.
This stuff she

does, I swear.
Isn't it amazing?
Look how beautiful that bottleis stunning.

The ad campaign captivated my little 15
year old mod heart so much, thatI like, cleared out my bedroom,
I pulled in my grandmother'salligator suitcases and stacked
them up for my bedside tables.
Of course you did.
I was so influenced.
This was my first Oh my god! AndI was like, I had chopped blonde
hair because I didn't want to beobjectified, but then all of a

(55:28):
sudden I, oh my

god.
I don't want to be objectified,but

I'm still really good.
So that's Safari Bronzer.
So I was at Nordstrom as abeauty director when that hit.
Real

suede bags.

Okay.
That Safari Bronzer.
It was the best shade.
And I'll tell you why there wasliterally no orange in it.
And it was a red based.
Yeah,

that is, you can tell red and brown

on Yeah, it is the best color ever made in a
bronzer.
And I'm telling you someone outthere.
You know what?
No, no one do it because we'regoing to do it.
But seriously, that color islegendary.
That bronzer was everything.
I wore that bronzer every

day.

I

know

yeah.
They literally, every piece ofhow that product was put
together is, that's luxury.
So good.
That's luxury right there.
So good.
Yeah.
That is, that was a good one.

Real suede.

That is real suede

and it is stamped with the rl.

Wow.

Denine, you need to come back on because Hillary,
let's keep doing this.
This will really make your toescurl.
And I'm telling you.
I just

spent the weekend at my mom's house.
I had her pull out some of theold kits that I've left there or
old kits that I made for, I hadan old prescriptives box.
You'll be seeing it.
Oh, wait, I got a few

things.
Hell, you were there for yourmom's birthday, and I just have
to say, Hillary and I have a lotin common, and as many people
know, and we have a big lifetogether, but our moms have the
same birthday, December

16th.
That's crazy! Oh my gosh, that'scrazy! Can you believe

that?
That's amazing! Happy birthday,Lorraine.
Happy birthday, Glenis.
Yes.
Yes.
Happy birthday.
They both just had a birthdayyesterday.
So yeah, my

mom has her 80th on January

3rd.

Yeah.
I can't believe it.
We're very excited.
Should

I say how old Glenis is?
She's 87.
Wow.
At home, running around chasingafter my dad, who's 92.
Oh my goodness.
So there you go.
There you go.
Love that in the same house,still running a mile.
Good.
Don't go into the gym every day.

That's fantastic.

To be said for all this.

Oh, for sure.
I'll tell you the gym.
It's all about weights.
It's all about weights.
It is.
It is the fountain of youth.
I've come to that conclusion.
It's not quite as good as itused to be.
The older you get, but it'sstill better than if you didn't
do it for sure.

Exactly.
I agree.
Could not agree more with you.
Yeah.

you guys have inspired me to start doing
more weights'cause I've beendoing, just outside cardio and
some resistance.
I do a ton

of cardio but

weights, Susan's doing weights too.
So now we

gotta throw 'em around.
Everyone.
You guys have

got me.
I'll start doing it.

It's good.
Thank

you.

Thank you.
You'll love it.
You'll love

it.
This is so much fun.
This is so

much fun.

Much.
This was so much fun.
We cannot thank you enough.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It was great.

Thank you.

So happy holidays.
Happy New Year and to becontinued.

To be continued.
We never say goodbye.
We say goodbye to some of ourguests, but there are others
that we're like, no, I think yourope them all back.
I was going to say, I feel likewe always say, see you next
time.
Everybody just keeps comingback.
All right, everyone.
All right, guys.
Happy holidays.
Happy holidays, Denise.

(59:04):
Happy holidays.
Stay glossy, everyone.

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