The Psychology of Beauty with Guest, Dr. Ann Beatty

Beauty and Brains. 

Have you ever thought about the psychology of beauty? Does the beauty industry think about the psychology of you? 

Enter Dr. Ann Beatty. As a senior advisor to top beauty brands she explores how companies interact with consumers in authentic and ethical ways to help you discover your beauty identity and meet your needs. 

Dr. Ann Beatty is a nationally recognized principal advisor and educator to senior (beauty) executives nationwide. Leveraging more than 30 years of business experience, her expertise is partnering with executive leaders and boards to improve individual and organizational performance through CEO succession planning, assessment, performance evaluation, team building, and developmental coaching. Dr. Beatty’s deep understanding of executive and board-level roles enables her to guide leaders in more effectively navigating the unique challenges of their positions.

Her beauty industry clients include Estee Lauder and Its subsidiaries and Bloomingdales, to name a few. She implemented their vision of a collaborative culture, managed the company’s strategic direction and financial welfare, and oversaw CEO-level initiatives, including CEO succession planning, assessment and performance evaluation, team-building, and coaching.

Dr. Beatty earned her Doctor of Philosophy degree in Psychology from St. Louis University. Her area of research interest is the correlation of personality attributes to effective leadership style and management practices. She is a member of the American Psychological Association, APA — Division 13 Consulting, American Psychological Society, American Management Association, Society for Personality Assessment, Society of Psychologists in Management, and American Society for Training and Development.

https://beattyleadership.com/

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Life Gloss, a beautypodcast for sassy and seasoned
women who have lived life andhave a drawer full of lip gloss
to prove it.

Susan Gerdeman (00:10):
And then Hillary and I met, um, soon after I was
out of college.
So we got a lot of history here.
We've all known each other sincewe were children.
Yeah.

Hillary Clark-Mina (00:22):
It's yesterday, right?

Susan Gerdeman (00:24):
Yesterday.

Hillary Clark-Mina (00:26):
It's so nice to hear you say that.
And because we, Susan and I arereiterating often how, how long
this love affair has gone onbetween us.
And we've seen each otherthrough we've moved, we've had
relationships with business andpersonally, and we've gone
through so much together.
It feels like we're sisters.

(00:47):
And I don't remember the day wemet.
I don't remember not knowingSusan and it's lovely when
someone else can look at ourbios and look at our lives and
say, wow, there are so manycommon threads, but you've taken
such different paths.
And here we are.

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:04):
It's beautiful.
And I love what you're doingwith this podcast series.
I listened to several of themand what is so interesting and
wonderful about them is they'reall unique one from the other
and have, you know, veryspecific, um, information,
style, but mainly it's allfocused around I think what

(01:32):
makes people, what makes womenbeautiful, both inside and out.
And I love that.
I mean, it's just the, it's thecomplete picture of when I think
of beauty, I always think of,you know, beauty outside, beauty
inside.
Right,

Susan Gerdeman (01:49):
right.
Well, I'm glad.
I'm really glad that comesacross because that's something
that Hillary and I wanted tofocus on in this podcast was
really, you know, the, the 40plus woman, the, you know,
really, I mean, you know, 50plus woman, 70, 80 plus, I mean,
we have everybody from my mom,who's, you know, 87 at the end
of this year down, you know,listening to us.

(02:12):
So it's, Yeah, it's really nicethat, um, you pick up on that
message that we're not just, um,talking about one thing, but
we're talking about theinternal, the external.
And that's why this episode isgoing to be so important to us
because it'll be almost a year,actually, next What is it, two
weeks, Hill?
It's a year.

(02:32):
We're coming

Hillary Clark-Mina (02:32):
up on our anniversary.
You're going to be ouranniversary episode.
Oh my god.

Susan Gerdeman (02:37):
Which is so apropos, because we're really
talking.
The whole year has been, ifanybody really listens closely,
like you have, not just theOuter, but inner.
We always try to balance thetwo, you know?

Hillary Clark-Mina (02:53):
And it's been so important to us to
contribute in a meaningful wayto beauty.
Beauty has become something andevery generation and every five
to 10 years, we say this beautyhas become so much bigger.
It's so different.
We saw it with the internet andmagazines are going away.
And what will we do?

(03:13):
And.
You know, self service stores,you've seen all of the
iterations and, but now evenwith the everyday influencer and
so many women that were in ourcategory are now being served,
we'll call it that, are beingserved, you know, silverwashing
is a really big thing.
So we, we didn't want to beanother clamoring voice.

(03:38):
We wanted to really be an anchorwhere people could say, You
know, maybe I have somethingspecific.
I want to know about.
Let me go through their menu andI can pinpoint it and pull it
out.
Maybe I just want to feel goodor I just want to feel like I'm
part of a club and I want tofeel like people are talking to
me.
And that's why Keeping thefinger on the pulse of what's

(04:01):
going on behind the scenes.
The beauty companies are not ourenemies, they are definitely our
friends, but they arebusinesses.
So to keep women and educatewomen and contribute
meaningfully is really what ourgoal and our mission is.

Dr. Ann Beatty (04:18):
Well, Hillary, you just touched on a key word,
educate.
I was just talking to members ofour team, you know, one of, um,
and Susan knows this, thatprobably one of my longest and,
um, most favorite clients isEstee Lauder.
And all the brands in EsteeLauder, I, I looked at them all

(04:40):
last night, and I had workedwith Every brand with an Estee
Lauder except for five.
And so I feel like I just knowthem inside and out, but we were
talking about, um, Clinique.
And I'm saying that I rememberas a young girl, I think in high
school, probably being, youknow, kind of drug through the

(05:02):
department store with my mother.
And I wanted, I wanted somemakeup.
I didn't know what it was, justsomething.
Because I felt like I wasgrowing up.
I was 16.
I just got my driver's license.
And I thought, you know, that'ssomething I need.
And she took me to the Cliniquecounter.
And I will never forget all ofthose women in those white

(05:25):
coats.
And, you know, they wereeducators as much as anything
else.
And for a long time.
A lot of the brands had thateducational component and some
of the, I think, best brands andmost prestigious brands have
that.
But then when you look atTikTok, sometimes you don't know

(05:49):
what's what, you don't know theefficacy, you don't know the
claims, you don't know reallyanything.
And so I really One of thequestions that you asked was,
what do I hope to see in thefuture is continued transparency
and continued education in thisfield.
I think that that's going to bea huge differentiator.

Susan Gerdeman (06:13):
Okay.
All right.
Well, we're gonna, we're gonna.
I want you to remember thatbecause we're going to hit
report soon and and we're goingto get into this.
So would you like to be calledDr.
Anne?
I mean, that's what I call you,but would you like to be called
Dr.
Beatty?
Dr.
Anne Beatty?
Just Anne.
Dr.
Anne is great.
Dr.
Anne is great.
I thought, um, I'm going to do alittle intro for you and we're

(06:35):
just going to start and witheach question we spend about,
you know, 5 to 10 minutes andwe'll, you know, we ad lib, I
think, you know, we like to havefun.
We like to laugh.
Um, I will leave it to you tomention anyone you want to, you
don't have to mention anyone,uh, as far as names go,
obviously confidentiality, etc.

(06:58):
But if you want to say, youknow, you've worked with the
lotter group, etc, you know.
I don't think, you know, I don'tsee that a problem, but that's
up to you.
I leave that up to you.
Um, but we, as you can see inthe questions, we won't get,
we're not going to get into thenitty nitty nitty gritty.
Right.
We're going to keep it flowingwith more about how women think
about beauty and, and theindustry, the psychology of

(07:20):
beauty, and that's what it is.
So, okay, are we

Dr. Ann Beatty (07:23):
ready?
Do you have any questions for usbefore we start?
No, I'm just so glad to meetboth of you, and I'm so glad to
know about this, this series.
I just think it's such a sweet,Service.
Oh, people.
I think sometimes people, youknow, when we look at TikTok,
we're all on Facebook, we're onsocial media.

(07:45):
I think sometimes that I don'twant to say older women, but
more mature women, professionalwomen sometimes feel a little
left in the dust.
And so to, you know, have aseries that talks about serious
things relative to beauty andcosmetics is wonderful.

Hillary Clark-Mina (08:05):
Wonderful.
I love it.
Thank you.
We do and we and I feel likeWe're starting to be pandered to
a little bit because we do havethe buying power, but it's like
they, they want us to open ourwallets, but they don't always
want to hear from us.
So I am on a bit of a mission onTik TOK to turn some of that
around.

(08:25):
So maybe you'll see it there.
All right, we are, we arerolling.
So,

Susan Gerdeman (08:32):
okay.
All right.
Terrific.
Well, they say that brains andbeauty don't always go together.
And on today's episode of thepsychology of beauty, we're
going to dispel that myth.
With over 30 years experience asa top psychologist, Dr.
Anne Beatty is a nationallyrecognized principal advisor and

(08:54):
educator to senior executivesthroughout the United States.
She's the founder and CEO atBeatty, a leadership consulting
firm based in St.
Louis, Missouri.
She's got clients all the wayfrom New York to Dallas.
Dr.
Beatty has helped family ownedas well as Fortune 500
businesses with CEO ledinitiatives, including CEO

(09:18):
succession planning, assessment,performance evaluation, team
building, and coaching.
She has some of the top cosmeticCEOs in the world on speed dial.
We are so excited to have her onLifeGloss today as we discuss
The psychology of beauty.

(09:39):
Welcome, Dr.
Anne.

Dr. Ann Beatty (09:42):
Well, thank you so much, Susan.
Thank you, Hillary It is apleasure for me to be here.
And I, quite honestly, I'm veryhonored to be speaking with both
of you because As I havelistened to some of your
episodes, I am so impressed atthis initiative, which I find so
refreshing and so stimulating.

(10:04):
So thank you for what you do incontributing this wonderful
Podcast

Hillary Clark-Mina (10:10):
Well, my goodness, Susan, did you

Susan Gerdeman (10:12):
hear that?
It's funny, Hill, because wewere talking just a few minutes
before we hit record, and wewere saying that it's almost a
year anniversary of LifeGloss,since you and I started talking
about even doing a podcast forwomen over 40.
And the fact that we were ableto get Dr.

(10:34):
Anne to come on, um, tocelebrate the year is so perfect
because we've always not justtalked about tips and trends and
outer beauty and ways to makeyou look younger and blah, blah,
blah.
We've always tried to tie in thepsychology behind it, the beauty
within the, how do you feelabout yourself?

(10:56):
So.
That message has rung truethrough almost four seasons.
I think we're in our fourthseason now.
Um, almost 40 episodes in aftera year.
So how perfect to have Dr.
Anne here today.

Hillary Clark-Mina (11:10):
It's, it, I'm pinching myself.
I'm pinching myself.
I've, I've been familiar withher work for so many years and
she has really helped shape anumber of industries and helped
them evolve.
Navigate and find their way andkeep the horizon and she's kept

(11:31):
a lot of industries focused onthe, I would say the right
things and on the right path.
So I just, this is a dream cometrue.
So Susan.
Thank you, Dr.
Anne.
It is, it's incredible.
And What a way to kick off ouranniversary.

Susan Gerdeman (11:49):
That's right.
So let's get into a doctor andwe're going to, we're going to
switch the roles here and we'regoing to try to pick your brain.
Um, we are not doctors.
We are doctors of beauty.
Let's put it that way, but wehave a few questions to ask you,
especially for our listeners whodon't really understand or don't
even maybe know that You know,there are people, um, much like

(12:14):
yourself, professionals, um, whoactually help drive the cosmetic
business.
So, you know, I think we talkedin the intro here about all the
companies you've worked with, etcetera, and I'm going to let you
talk in a minute about that.
But, you know, how and why didyou branch out into the world of
cosmetic companies throughpsychology?

Dr. Ann Beatty (12:37):
I'm, I just love that question, Susan, and I'm so
happy to respond to that becauseit was really, um, almost my
serendipity, but, uh, when I wasa much younger consultant, one
of the first assignments that Ihad was, um, oddly enough, was

(12:59):
to help my current boss at thattime with an engagement with
Leonard Lauder, of all people.
Um, And what, um, Leonard waslooking for at the time was not
anything really connected withthe company.
It was the family.
And one of the things that we dois we do a lot of work with

(13:21):
family and family ownedbusinesses.
We help them find their missionstatement, their vision
statement, their purposestatement, uh, rules of
engagement.
And so I had the honor reallyof.
working with Leonard and Williamand Jane and Aaron, um, and

(13:42):
just, and also Ronald.
So it was really through thatconnection that I got to know
Leonard Lauder.
And, um, shortly after thatengagement, which was just,
Wonderful.
Their wonderful, wonderfulfamily and learning about their
history in terms of theirentrepreneurial drive and

(14:03):
particularly Estee Lauder.
Um, Leonard called me one dayand he said, I would like for
you to come and talk to youabout a new acquisition that we
have just made.
And as it turns out, it wasBobby Brown.
And so the, the, the assignmentwas to, um, meet Bobby Brown and

(14:28):
really kind of help her quotes,understand more of the corporate
world as opposed to, um, justbeauty and the production of
beauty and the development ofbeauty.
And that's really the way Istarted is, was just through
that type of connection.
And people will always say, youknow, well, My goodness, did you

(14:52):
ever dream of doing this?
And I, not in a hundred years.
And I think with most people,that's exactly how their life
evolves.
It's one thing leads to another,leads to another, leads to
another.
But I was very happy to, um,make that acquaintance.
And as I've, you know, grown inmy career, um, I've done so much

(15:15):
work with not only Estee Lauderand all of the brands within,
but also within the Prestigebusiness, uh, in retail as well.
So a lot of work withBloomingdale's, um, and, you
know, Neiman Marcus, Sachs, andso.
Also, who serves the retailcommunity and the cosmetic

(15:37):
community.
So it's all been fittingtogether for me, along with all
the other clients that I have,but it's really been a treat
because one of the things that Ialways say about working in
beauty and working inparticularly cosmetics.
You can see it everywhere youlook.
And so the more you know, itjust heightens your awareness

(15:59):
when you're talking to people orwhen they're talking to you, um,
you know, about the reallywonderful contributions that
this industry has made.
I think to, um, the feeling ofconfidence, empowerment, um, to
many, many women.

(16:20):
And certainly I think of latemany, many men.

Susan Gerdeman (16:24):
100 percent 100 percent

Hillary Clark-Mina (16:27):
very forward thinking of lotter to help ease
Bobby's transition in from moreof a pro artist, you know, run
by the seat of your pants,entrepreneur, her evolution as
an indie artist is one thatwe've written books and books
and books about.
And it's such an interestingdynamic to be one of the very

(16:50):
first to make that move fromartist to brand owner.
And how very forward thinking ofLeonard to bring someone in to
help her understand thattransition.
I think people don't appreciatehow jarring that can be.

Dr. Ann Beatty (17:05):
Absolutely.
And then what that did is thatled to them thinking about that
for their other executives.
So over the last 20, 25 years,All kinds of leader development,
leader coaching, leader 360feedback has now become
institutionalized at the higherlevels within Estee Water.

(17:29):
And I would have to say, Ithink, has been instrumental in
preparing for this.
Their executives to not only dowhat they do best relative to
their functional gift, theirfunctional expertise, but also
how do you bring that to life ina corporate setting?
So there's really two thingsthat work there, and it's just,

(17:50):
it's great.
Just great, you know, to meetsome of these very talented
individuals, very creative, veryinnovative, highly emotional,
highly passionate about whatthey do, but also help them
understand some of thefundamentals of business and,
um, The fundamentals ofleadership, the importance of

(18:13):
leadership and interpersonalrelationships so that, um, you
know, they can move teams, largeteams, small teams, um, in the
ways that are most productivefor the brands.

Susan Gerdeman (18:27):
Yeah, because it's interesting, you know, most
people that get into thecosmetic industry or beauty
industry, and let's just say,let's take makeup artists, for
example.

Audio Only - All Particip (18:36):
Yeah.

Susan Gerdeman (18:36):
Most people assume that they are simply a
creative brain, and many, manyare we've seen companies fail.
We've seen small brands fail.
We've seen small brands grow,and it's interesting that a lot
of people don't think thatcreative people can also be very
entrepreneurial.
Very business driven.

(18:57):
You can have sort of both ofthose sides.
So I agree with Hillary thatit's very forward thinking for
the lotters to understand.
The need to bring someone in tomarry both right brain and left
brain.
Yes,

Dr. Ann Beatty (19:12):
it truly is.
And I love, I love the notionthat you just spoke about in
terms of, um, there's a lot ofstereotyping that goes on with
creative people with innovativepeople, particularly those that
are just uber artistic.
And so we would be shortsighted.
for any company, anyorganization, not to, I think,

(19:34):
help them develop, you know, Ialways say, add to their toolbox
of leadership skills, you know,to help them, you know, always
be better, do better, and bringpeople along.
Because in these big companies,you always have to have Um, you
know, it's very important tohave talent developing below you

(19:54):
so that you know, as there isattrition, you always have
somebody ready.
But, um, it is.
It's very, very interesting.
One of the things that, um,Fabrizio Freyda said often when
he came to Estee Lauder as theirnew CEO, he talked about, um,
many of these creativeindividuals as heroes.

(20:19):
And heroes of the company.
And so how do we, you know, howdo we take these heroes and work
with them and develop them in away that their gifts are not
just so specific, but moregeneralized across all of us.
Different brands and the wholecompany for that matter.

(20:41):
And so now, they talk insteadabout people being heroes, they
now talk about hero products.
And those are the ones that are,you know, selling hot trends,
selling the most, um, at themoment.
But it was really interestinghow he moved from the reference
from a person to now toproducts.

Susan Gerdeman (21:02):
Yeah.
And I don't, I personally, Iknow Hillary agrees with me
because we just talked aboutthis the other day.
I don't think you can have ahero product without a hero
person.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Hillary Clark-Mina (21:14):
Oh my goodness.
I am, I am completelyenraptured.
I would like, I, I would likenothing more than to just curl
up on the chair behind you andtalk with you all day long.
It's.
It is so, I am so fascinated.
I think our audience, ourlisteners are going to be so
fascinated too.
And, you know, both Susan and Ihave been in education.

(21:35):
Our passion is education to thisday.
I still work independently withbrands as an educator and.
It has been a standard from themoment my big toe went into the
beauty pool in the mid 90s Thatpeople that were trained and
people that were educated andcame from the estee lauder

(21:55):
organization They were pristineIn the way that they were, that
they would function within theorganization.
Everyone knew what to do.
They had the bravery to becreative, but they also knew
specifically what their jobswere in the organization was
always known to be so tight.

(22:17):
And if you were an educatorwithin Estee Lauder.
You were being poached on theregular.
And I think a lot of that has todo with you, Ann.
So kudos all the

Dr. Ann Beatty (22:28):
way around.
Well, I don't know that it hasto do with me specifically, but
one of the things that, um, Ithink is so interesting about
the, certainly about EsteeLauder and perhaps other
companies as well is, um, youknow, this.
And I think there's a wholenotion of, um, can this talent

(22:50):
be developed?
Do, are people just naturallycreative or are they not?
Or are there, is, are therethings there that can be
developed through, um, actuallydoing the work, watching others,
being taught, being mentored?
And I certainly think, yes,there are those.
You know, creative heroes, butthen there, there are a lot of

(23:13):
things that can be passed on toothers, which I think is very,
very, um, important across theindustry.
One of the, I think, geniusthings that Estee Lauder has
done too, is that they havepurposely kept each of their
brands individually, distinct,specific.

(23:35):
And unique when I tell peoplethat, um, you know, by working
with, whether it's Clinique orMac or Tom Ford, whomever it is,
very few people realize thatthey are in a portfolio of
companies all under the umbrellaof Estee Lauder.
And so when you, speaking ofcreative genius and being

(23:57):
strategic to think of being ableto see the value of that,
because what that does is that.
I think lets people know that weunderstand how important it is
to speak differentially andindividually to our audience.
You know, while some peopleresonate to the Estee Lauder

(24:20):
brand, others like Clinique, orthey like MAC, or they like
Bobby Brown and feel that it'sFor them and feel that the brand
speaks to them.
And that's the other thingthat's interesting as I've
gotten into this isunderstanding this whole notion
of narrative and voice thatthese different brands, um,

(24:43):
really must have in order tocommunicate, um, the emotional
message intended for theirrespective customer.
And they spend a lot of time interms of.
What they call things, how theydescribe things, how they name
things so that it has that voiceso that it can speak to a

(25:05):
potential consumer.

Susan Gerdeman (25:09):
Oh, 100%.
I mean, you, you look throughthe years and it, I remember
back in the day, it was always,They would say, and I don't know
if they still say this or not,but you start at Clinique and
then you graduate up, you know,through the brands until you get
to Lauder.
You know, so you go throughClinique, you go through, you

(25:31):
know, maybe Bobby Brown orOrigins or, you know, and then
you move into Lauder.
And so it's, it's, it'sinteresting to see that, um, you
know, there is, whether peopleknow it or not, there is so much
psychology, Behind the buildingof their folio, and we're just
specifically talking aboutLauder you know, there's

(25:52):
obviously L'Oreal and other bigconglomerates, Garnier etc.
But the psychology of how theyreally put and invest so much
time and money into how peoplethink and the power of purchase.
The psychology of purchase,right?
Absolutely.

Dr. Ann Beatty (26:12):
Well, and also when you think of some of the
brands within this portfolio,they're also very reflective of
societal trends and societalvalues and norms.
I remember when, um, Mac firstcame to fruition, you know, when
it hit the market and it wasvery much of an anti
establishment type of activistbrand.

(26:34):
I'm different.
I'm me.
I'm free to be me.
Look at me.
I'm okay.
And I thought that was soingenious because, you know,
yes, there's a place in theworld for the Estee Lauders and
the Cliniques and the BobbiBrowns, but there's also a place
in the world for the Macs of theworld.

(26:55):
And the same thing within theirhair care brands between, of
course, Aveda spoke to a certainClientele as did Bumble and
Bumble, but I like that notionof thinking about, um, not just
exactly, uh, skin and hair, butthought process, and most of

(27:16):
all, Susan, identity, and how,you know, how do I create a
product that other people canidentify with?
And consume and you and enjoy

Susan Gerdeman (27:29):
and that's where the loyalty comes along.
You know, when you think of ifyou name a company, like if we
played a game right now and Inamed a company, you could name
a hero product in there.
If I named a product.
You could match the company toit.
And I think that's for mostwomen, you know, if I, if I

(27:50):
said, you know, um, three step,everybody would know that's
Clinique.
If I said Finicils, everyonewould know that's Lancôme
mascara.
I mean, we could go on and playthe game for hours, but so it's,
it's just, it's amazing how, youknow, These companies were able
to really tap into thatpsychology and really create

(28:10):
products around the psychologyof beauty.

Dr. Ann Beatty (28:14):
I agree.
It's ingenious.
And the other thing that I likeabout where the industry is
going is I think that they'rebecoming more and more
sensitive.
To that in terms of, um, reallyhelping women and men in some
occasions really understand whothey are and, you know, and

(28:37):
their place in the world.
I think it's, um, it's reallyserving, um, almost kind of a
societal need right now,particularly post COVID where so
many people seem to be lost andpeople are having trouble, you
know, deciding.
Do I work in the office?
Do I not?

(28:58):
If I do work in the office, if Ido go outside of my home, what
do I wear?
I don't know the norm anymore.
I've lost the norm.
And I think the same is truewith cosmetics and beauty.
The norm is now beingrediscovered.
And Chris, obviously, Hillary,you know this, the thing that's
driving that is social media.
And all the social influencers,TikTok for example, you know,

(29:24):
big influencer.
It's very very, I think it's,um, I think it's fascinating
what's happening right now.

Hillary Clark-Mina (29:33):
It is fascinating, Dr.
Ann, and I'd love, I'd love todive in a little bit to get your
opinion on two things.
You mentioned talking aboutfostering, Creativity within the
organizations and teaching andpassing that on.
And, you know, inspiring thegroup to rise as others grow.

(29:55):
And in First, the first part ofthe question I would say is so
many of the brand founders thatwere individual artists, there
was a lot of glory in thatsometimes a lot of narcissism in
that.
How did you work with teachingsomeone to share?
Obviously everybody is a verymultifaceted person.

(30:16):
Many creatives are also verygiving in it, very empathic.
So they're very forthcoming withthose things.
It's not all, but having taughtpeople.
How to foster creativity withoutfeeling threatened within a
group fascinates me how thatmight translate to Social media

(30:37):
where now everyone has madetheir own identity on a tiktok
and instagram.
We are all living in these, youknow self built Narcissistic
bubbles where we can deletecomments that we don't like we
can edit how people see us so weSo many people don't have to
really walk the walk and talkthe talk every single day and

(30:59):
they're less responsible perhapswith what they put out in the
world.
And to the audience that can beso, so hard to receive because
it makes things more confusingfor them.
It feels like a big hairball andI'm not sure how we're going to
entangle it.
And then for those of us, aswe're getting older, I'd love

(31:19):
maybe a little later on to talkabout the psychology of the
older consumer, the way we'rebeing spoken to.
There are a few differentnarratives and I would love your
thoughts around that as well.
But as I said, I would just loveto be on your couch.
I have so many things.

Dr. Ann Beatty (31:39):
Well, it is the question you bring up about the
older consumer, I think isextraordinarily intriguing
because, I mean, you can't pickup.
Any book, any periodical, anynewspaper, or watch any podcast,
or listen to any podcast, thatone of the primary trends that's

(32:02):
running through our societyright now is this phenomenon of
older women feeling unseen.
I can't tell you how manyarticles I've seen, how many
books I've seen, where theyspeak about that, that, you
know, after I've gotten to thisage, I just I just don't feel
seen anymore.

(32:23):
I mean, it's, it's reallyheartbreaking when you think
about it.
And so I think for, um, thisindustry to be able to pick up
on that and to help these women,in particular, with strategies
for thinking about theimportance of being seen by

(32:45):
others, is it important or is itnot?
Or is it really more importanthow I see myself?
One of the things I do a lot ofexecutive coaching Hillary and
one of the things that I alwayssay always always I can really
tell whether an executive hasreally reached what I would call

(33:07):
Executive maturity if they canbegin to what I call Self
defined as opposed to be otherdefined.
So, rather than coming up,coming up, coming up, and being
worried, worried, worried aboutwhat my boss thinks, what my
peers think, what my colleaguesthink, can I ever get to a spot

(33:27):
where I really just care whatothers think?
Not in a selfish way, but that Iunderstand and care about what I
think about me, and I know who Iam, and I have this feeling of
self efficacy is so, soimportant, and I feel I have
agency, because I think once youdevelop that on the inside, Then

(33:51):
I don't think that there wouldbe such this, um, feeling, this
sad feeling of not being seen.

Hillary Clark-Mina (34:00):
You know, Dr.
Anne, I'm going to pause for amoment and ask our audience to
maybe bookmark right here.
Maybe go back a little bit.
I'm going to create a soundbitefor specifically what you just
said, because I think it'sreally important that we all
spend some time reflecting andasking ourselves those

(34:21):
questions.
If you take nothing else fromour time together, that right
there is So I have littleshivers up my spine.
I have absolute goosebumps.
It is a treasure that you'resharing with us.
And please, please to all of ourlife glossers, take a little
moment, go back, listen to thisagain, if you're.

(34:44):
Catching this anywhere.
And that's all you listen to.
That's all you share with yourfriends.
I'm going to make it easy.
We're going to soundbite itbecause it's so important.
And I wonder sometimes too, forsome of the brands that I see
that are giving that message andare saying, you're not seen, we
have a solution.
I'm like, Do we really not feelseen?
Are they just telling us wearen't being seen so they can

(35:07):
then solve the problem for us?
Or are we sometimes not beingseen?
Or is it a combination of both?
Which I think it's most likely acombination of both.
But the brands that declare thatwe're not seen and we need to be
seen and then come in fast andhard with a product to make a
scene or a fix or a lifesolution, but they don't

(35:30):
actually spend time curatingyour.
soul and your perception ofself.
I feel like that's a reallycheap shot and it cheapens our
industry because we're betterthan

Dr. Ann Beatty (35:41):
that.

Hillary Clark-Mina (35:41):
Exactly.
I agree.

Dr. Ann Beatty (35:44):
And I, do you see, um, I see an evolving trend
where more and more Companiesare doing that.
More and more brands areactually urging people to take
that first step that you justspoke about.
And I think that, um, that is sogood because one of the things
that I know that customers areasking for now, just because of

(36:10):
all the talk that I have, um,with all of the people with
whom, um, I'm working is thiswhole notion of.
Individualization, you know,people want, um, they want
treatment for their skin.
They don't want a treatment thatsomebody else has made and just

(36:30):
said, try it.
They don't want that.
They want to know that this isspecific for their skin.
Same thing, by the way, in thehair industry, they want
treatment specific for their,not only hair type, but for
their scalp.
And so this whole.
really quest and desire fromcustomers now to have that type

(36:54):
of focus, but it also causesthem to be knowing themselves in
a way that perhaps they hadn'tthought about before.

Hillary Clark-Mina (37:04):
Fascinating.
And AI and technology istiptoeing into being able to
give us that bespoke experiencefor skin, hair, and color.
So I think 10 to 15 years fromnow, we might think it was
barbaric that everyone waspicking up the same cream and
using the same thing across themasses.

(37:26):
But I think you're right.
I

Dr. Ann Beatty (37:29):
think you're absolutely right.
And I think it may be soonerthan that.
I think it's really I think it'son the horizon.
Um, and the other thing that Ithink, and this, it's
interesting how we've becomesuch a small world.
Thanks.
Thanks.
For the internet for sure, but Ithink people are developing
interest just like people arewant to travel to other

(37:50):
countries.
They want to see the, you know,the topography, the culture of
the food, all of those things.
I think that there is awillingness today to experiment
with beauty from other cultures.
And I think people have anopenness to thinking about that

(38:11):
and want to try it.
So I, I like that as well.
I think that really kind of, uh,represents our feel for the
goodness of diversity.
Yeah.

Susan Gerdeman (38:24):
I was going to say, it seems that, you know,
um, the, the companies thatwe're seeing now really have a
two fold that they've got totake on when we're talking about
the psychology of beauty andit's not just the maturing
customer.

Audio Only - All Particip (38:38):
Yeah.

Susan Gerdeman (38:38):
But it's also the maturing diverse customer,
you know, different genders,different, uh, nationalities,
um, different skin tones, etcetera.
So it's a two fold process thatthey're really, I think, really
taking on.
Is it, is it perfect yet?
No.
So that, that's my next questionto you really is, do you think

(39:01):
personally and professionally,both, you can answer both, um,
Is the cosmetic industry doing agood job for our mature and or
diverse customer base?
Are they doing a good job?

Dr. Ann Beatty (39:18):
Here's what I think, Susan.
I think that there is such acorporate interest.
across every organization, everycompany in sustainability, that
that now is driving exactly, um,this notion of making sure that

(39:39):
whatever products you have, ifyou're in the beauty industry,
certainly the efficacy of those.
But also, are you sharing theknowledge?
Are you making sure that yourintended customer knows exactly
what it is, what it's for, youknow, how to apply it, how it
works, what are the benefits?

(40:00):
What are some of the downsides?
I think that that is, I justfeel that that's coming faster
and faster.
But, you know, cosmeticcompanies a few years ago did a
better job because they all hadeducators.
And you all know about that.
You've been educators.

(40:21):
And it was only, I think, whenYou know, we're starting to look
at our budget and think, well,what could we maybe do with
that?
I think some brands thought,well, maybe we don't need those
educators.
But yet, I think that they'rejust absolutely essential.
I just can't imagine, you know,buying a product and not knowing

(40:44):
how to use it or what it's goingto do for me.

Susan Gerdeman (40:48):
Yeah, I think I agree with you.
I think many companies, you cansee this, you know, uh, first of
all, you know, should everycompany be for everybody, you
know, we're hearing now, youknow, Oh, you've got to, you
know, you have to havediversity.
You have to have a completeshade range.
You have to be mature.
You have to be, I hate to breakit to people, but I think when
you Say that you can meet theneeds of everybody.

(41:11):
You meet the needs of no one.
And I know that's acontroversial thing to say, but
that's why there are specificbrands for specific people.
And I think that we get lost inthis.
Oh, we all need to be welcome.
We all need to, you know, be apart of that particular brand in
a perfect world.

(41:32):
Yes.
But I think that they end updoing a disservice or just
slapping something out, um, thatdoesn't work.
And we've seen so many mistakes.
Hillary and I talk about this alot in products that have
launched recently that theyclaim to be for everyone and
they come out with something andthey're not.
So I think companies really needto do some, you know, some, some

(41:53):
psychology on themselves andsay, Who are we and who is our
customer and how do we meettheir needs?
Um, I, I think that's wherewe've gone a little crazy and
thinking that we just, you know,hurry, scramble, scramble.
We, we need to be a part ofeverybody's world, but I think
it, it works like that and thelack of education has really

(42:18):
hurt brands.

Dr. Ann Beatty (42:20):
I agree.
And you know, it's interestingwhen you think of, you talked
about the open counter concept,when I think about the rise of
Sephora and Ulta, one of thethings that I think they meet
the need that the traditionaldepartment stores really left

(42:41):
undone, so to speak, which ishaving someone on the floor to
tell what this product is, whatis it does, what does it do, you
know, What are the downsides?
Can you suggest something elsefor me, if not this product?
Because certainly, you know, yougo to Sephora, you go to Ult,
not only will they talk to youabout it, you can actually look

(43:03):
at it, try it, touch it, feelit, in a, you know, in a multi,
um, I think, diverseenvironment, which is very, very
healthy.
And so I think in some waysthey're fulfilling some of that
role of helping educate, um,consumers, intended consumers.

Hillary Clark-Mina (43:24):
They are.
And the fact that education hascome up over and over again,
surprises and delights me.
I remember being a beautydirector in Northern California
with Nordstrom.
So we would attend all of theclasses and we'd go to all the
trainings as part of the waythat I became so, um, So exposed

(43:45):
to Estee Lauder's brand of typeand style of training that was
consistent and thorough acrosstheir brands.
And of course I was, you know,had the good fortune of being
trained and educated by all thetop brands in that capacity, but
Nordstrom eliminated the beautydirector position.
I remember the day we all werelaid off and moved around in the

(44:06):
country, in the company andgiven options to do other
things.
And their bottom line,unfortunately, because I do love
Nordstrom, of course, they'renear and dear to my heart.
They felt the impact of losingthat educator.
They have brought it backseveral times, but the Susan
knows the core of the beautyeditor program or the beauty.

(44:26):
Sorry.
I.
I went to become a beauty editorwith Sephora after that, but the
beauty advisor role and thebeauty director role was so
strong.
We were nurturing.
We were teaching.
We were required to be on thefloor at least 10 percent of the
time.
We were required to keep our ownbook of business so that we were
Truly walking the walk, talkingthe talk, and I feel so strongly

(44:51):
about education.
And even if it's workingindependently with a contractor
that understands the DNA of abrand, because that educator is
interfacing with the people thatthey're teaching seasonally, not
only for the new producteducation, but new launches
seasonally, they're getting somuch feedback.
Feedback that they can then takeback to marketing and product

(45:13):
development of what's not onlywhat you're seeing in the
numbers as to how something'sselling, but how is it coming
off?
What is the impression?
What is the emotion?
What do people say when theycome to buy their third or
fourth?
What do they say when theyreturn it?
What do they, what is theoverall tone?
And it creates a loyalty and alove because your educator
becomes almost like the denmother for the brand.

(45:37):
Knows this like her, her ridewith Chanel.
I still to this day will goaround the country.
And when I people know that,that Susan and I are doing this
podcast together, they're like,oh, oh, Susan.
I love Susan.
I met Susan so many years agoand they, they sing her praises
for.
All for good reason she'sphenomenal and truly made people

(46:01):
feel like chanel was pristine Itwas elevated, but it was also
accessible and that is somethingthat Was not in chanel before
And that culture of kindnesswhile still being elevated and
being elite That's really allthat resonated and as we

(46:21):
sprinkled susan through thecountry You saw a little bit of
cool Combined with thatexcellence, the prestige and
kindness.
So educators can really plantthe seeds and change things for
a brand.
Absolutely.
Do you

Susan Gerdeman (46:37):
see, what are companies up to these days with
education, Dr.
Ann?
Are, are there still educatorsout there?
Are they investing in theeducation and training
departments?
Or are you seeing that go thewayside of, Oh, check out this
video when you're hired, or Youknow, are they doing product
launches through Zooms, or How'sit being done now?

Dr. Ann Beatty (47:00):
It's being, and I think that there is a
resurgence of emphasis andfunding to those individuals.
However, I think most prestigebrands have those, certainly
within Estee Lauder, but do theyhave enough of them?
So they're, you know, everybrand can have an educator, vice

(47:22):
president of education, but howmany people do they have in the
field?
That's really the question.

Audio Only - All Particip (47:29):
Yeah.

Dr. Ann Beatty (47:29):
Because, That's where they need to be, whether
it's hair care, you know, howmany people are visiting salons?
Is it once a year?
Is it once a quarter?
When is that?
And same thing, um, with all ofthe, you know, retail, whether
they're kiosks or stores,whatever they are, pop ups, you
know, Are they getting out andabout and really talking, you

(47:52):
know, person to person to theconsumer.
So I think the intention isthere.
They know the importance of it.
And so it's happening, but, um,you know, to what degree, of
course, then they're tryingvery, very hard.
I do know that to, you know,make sure that we can get as
much education in the field aspossible.

Audio Only - All Partici (48:13):
That's great.
It's

Dr. Ann Beatty (48:14):
important to touch people and it makes a
difference.
Well, that was the whole, thatwas the whole genesis of Estee
Lauder.
You remember when she developedher cream in the trunk of her
car and then would go to thesalons and she would sit with
women who were captured underthe hairdryer and rub cream on
their skin?

(48:34):
I mean, that was the genesis ofthe counter beauty advisor.
And I wish they still had a lotof those.

Susan Gerdeman (48:41):
Yeah, you know, you bring up, that just reminded
me of something, you know, it's,as we're talking about this
whole psychology of beauty inthe mind, right, and what's
presented and how we process andwhat not.
It's the human touch.

Audio Only - All Participa (48:56):
Yes.

Susan Gerdeman (48:57):
Right.
Can you talk about that and thepower of the human touch in the
beauty industry and itsimportance?
Yes.

Dr. Ann Beatty (49:05):
Well, as you know, the human touch is
absolutely, it's a basic, basicneed of every human being.
And when you, when there is thelack of that, whether it's the
infants, our, People who arealone, people who, uh, have no

(49:27):
one.
There is even a, a term coined,um, about skin hunger.
That when you're alone and noone touches you, that you have
this phenomenon that you wantpeople to touch you, to caress
you, to feel your hands, to feelyour skin.
And that's I think so importantfor the beauty industry to

(49:51):
understand that basic need thatpeople have is to be touched.
And so, you know, however we cando that, whether um, there are
people in our environment withus or whether there's all kinds
of other ways that you can dothat, you know, just like
anytime you buy products thesedays, beauty products, you

(50:12):
always get samples.
Thank you.
Um, so that you can try them.
But when you think about wherewe're going relative to
technology, face scanning, allof those things, we're still
this far away.
It's different.
It's so different.
It seems like it's a, you know,very progressive and it'll be

(50:35):
just wonderful.
But will it?
I don't know.

Hillary Clark-Mina (50:39):
I'm with you.
I, I'm with you.
I'm, I like to get my hands onpeople that, on my clients and
my people that I love and thatexchange is so important.
I think COVID,

Susan Gerdeman (50:53):
you know, and the pandemic in general really
did such damage to us allpsychologically.
And that's probably a wholeother episode.
Um, but I know in the beautyindustry, that touch was gone.
Even, even, even sprayingfragrance on someone's hand, or
even just, you know, um,touching up a little bit of

(51:13):
their, you know, blush or, youknow, whatever, or shaking their
hand when you bring the packagearound, you know, the counter to
say thank you.
And after someone's purchased,um, I used to always say when I
was in education, sometimes Youwill be the only touch or the
only kindness that that personmight see or feel today.

(51:36):
Don't forget the power of thisindustry.
Our job is to make people feelgood about themselves.
The sale will come, but wealways used to joke, You know,
instead of chairs at thecounters, we would install a
psychologist or a psychiatristcouch.
You know,

Hillary Clark-Mina (51:58):
it's true.
You know, Susan, what you saidis so true.
I recently got back from Canada.
I was there doing a training andI couldn't help, but notice that
there was a significant portionof the room that has trained
with me a few times, and they,you know, embraced me and hugged
me, and Hillary, hello, how areyou?
And there were some people thathave seen me three and four

(52:19):
times, and they're like huggingme with their eyes, but afraid
to touch, touch me, and I couldtell that they were, they gave
me, you know, the, the subtle,you know, The nonverbal
communication that like, I loveyou, but I'm afraid to touch you
still and people.
There's still a lot of fear outthere.
People are a little afraid oftouch, which is makes perfect

(52:40):
sense.
Everyone's wired differently,but you can see some people are
there.
So hungry for it.
Other people are hungry for it,but they're still afraid of it.
And it just breaks my heart tosee.

Dr. Ann Beatty (52:53):
Well, you know, this industry is such a, um,
multi sensual business.
That's one of the things thatmakes it so dramatic and so
emotional and so explosive.
It's all of that sensuousness.
Um, I'm and Susan, I think youand I've talked about this

(53:14):
before, you know, in uh, formerdays, pre COVID, you would go to
Bloomingdale's on the firstfloor where all the cosmetics
were, and it was like, Peoplecould, I mean, the energy was
unbelievable.
There was, you know, peopletrying on makeup, people

(53:35):
spraying fragrance, peopletalking to other people.
Well, what do you think?
How does this look?
And other people saying, well,how does it make you feel?
I mean, it was just such awonderful, wonderful experience,
which I think really is atestament to exactly what we've
been doing.
Talking about that.
It is important as much as wecan to always reach out and we

(53:59):
can do that through thisindustry in a way that people
want us to and certainly is veryacceptable.
But then, you know, we do havethat, that kind of remnant from
COVID that makes some peoplestill, I don't know.

Susan Gerdeman (54:17):
And then they went ahead and did something
really stupid.
Um, in my opinion, to put itvery bluntly, so many of the
retailers, and this was preCOVID, went and put the cosmetic
departments in the basement.
They took them, you know who I'mtalking about.
They took them off the firstfloor and stuck them in the

(54:38):
basement.
And I'll never forget saying toa CEO of a company I was with at
the time.
I said, in passing, I said,well, that's the dumbest thing
I've ever heard of.
And, you know, I mean, right.
It just went against everythinglike we stood for, you know.

(55:04):
Absolutely.
Have they changed?
Are they, are they, I haven'tnoticed.
Is anybody going, is anybodyback?
I feel like Saks in New YorkCity, I was just there recently,
um, they're upstairs.
Right, so is, same

Dr. Ann Beatty (55:17):
thing in Nordstrom, it's upstairs.

Susan Gerdeman (55:21):
Yeah.

Dr. Ann Beatty (55:21):
What

Susan Gerdeman (55:23):
are they thinking, Dr.
Ann?
Are they not calling you andsaying, No, no, no, no, no.
You need to be right on thefirst floor.
The ambassadors of the store wasalways cosmetics.
We welcome you.
It's beauty.
It feels good.
Come on in.
Now they're going up on thesecond floor.
Take an elevator up to get a lipgloss.
Go downstairs.

(55:43):
It makes me crazy.
I

Dr. Ann Beatty (55:47):
think, I think that there is a financial reason
for that, Susan.
I think that the vendor who iswilling to pay for the space,
you

Audio Only - All Particip (55:57):
know,

Dr. Ann Beatty (55:57):
that goes to the highest bidder, but it makes no
sense.
And it's also seems short termto me.

Susan Gerdeman (56:04):
In your words, and as my husband always says,
follow the dollars, you know,there's a reason why you know
him, but there's, there's areason why these decisions are
made.
And it always comes back to thealmighty dollar.
But sometimes I think in ourindustry, we shoot ourselves in
the foot with stuff like that.
So absolutely.

Hillary Clark-Mina (56:25):
Yeah, just the charm of popping in for a
lipstick and smelling a scent onyour way out.
You could literally be walkingback from lunch.
You could have your taxi couldstill be rolling and you could
run in, grab your thing and meetit at the light.
By the time it got there in NewYork City traffic, it was easy
to run in and get a replenish ifyou needed to say hi to your

(56:46):
counter friends and get a sampleof what was new.
And it was.
Joyful to walk into the firstfloor and see beauty.
It's,

Audio Only - All Participant (56:54):
it

Hillary Clark-Mina (56:55):
feels, walking into the shoe
department, and I love my shoes,don't get me wrong, but walking
into the shoe department is sosomber in comparison.

Susan Gerdeman (57:05):
Yeah, me too.
And, you know, we we've talked alot about the brick and mortar
because I think we're all of theage where we, you know, brick
and mortar is was king, butreally quickly before before I
know Hillary has has a personalquestion for you.
Our next question.
But, um, you know, thepsychology behind purchasing

(57:25):
online.
I was part of that.
I remember being part of theteams where product actually
went on the internet for sale.
I remember all this and everyonehad a psychological opinion
about that.
No one's going to buy fragranceonline.
No one's going to buy makeuponline.
You know, why should we even dothis?

(57:46):
This is crazy.
Hillary has a huge history inthis, uh, with Sephora and she
helped facilitate all that too.
So what's your take on thatdoctor?
And do you feel now it's allkind of sorted itself out?
And are people simply You know,replenishing online and still
going into the brick andmortars.
Or are you just seeing becauseof Amazon, I can have it here

(58:08):
and I can have it sent back thesame day.
How is

Dr. Ann Beatty (58:11):
that?
I think for right now, it isabsolutely replenishment because
you know, Estee Lauder is justnow embarking upon launching
their storefronts on Amazon andthey're being very wildly
successful.
And of course there are someproducts that they're promoting,
but it's mainly replenishment.
But at some point.
People, so many people are soused to shopping for everything

(58:35):
online, particularly for Amazon,that I think soon people will
say, Hmm, that looks veryinteresting there.
I think I'm going to try that.
And I think slowly but surely,you know, it will move to
something else.
Right.

Audio Only - All Partici (58:52):
Right.

Susan Gerdeman (58:53):
Yeah.
I often forget about.
About returns, you know, I mean,but that, that's a whole other
episode.
We always, you know, would thinkabout the amount of returns and,
um, but yeah, I agree with you.
I think a lot of it is simplyreplenishment or you're
purchasing products you'vealready used and you know.
Oh yeah.

Hillary Clark-Mina (59:10):
So

Susan Gerdeman (59:11):
yeah.
If

Hillary Clark-Mina (59:11):
anyone can build an Amazon storefront and
do it well with the, um, withthe opportunity to really
inspire people to try somethingnew, it's Estee Lauder.
They, they'll, they'll find away to, you know, give enough
product knowledge, maybe evenvideos, some education,
tutorial, and maybe even somefollow up, you know, post

(59:35):
purchase care, which can be hardwith Amazon because they don't
share the end user information,it's more of a bounce back QR
code you have to use there, butif anybody can do it, I'm, I'm
certain Estee Lauder can find away to connect with that
consumer.

Dr. Ann Beatty (59:49):
Well, you know, the first brand to launch from
Estee Lauder was Clinique andit's been unbelievably
successful.
But one of the things too, thatthey've adapted is what they
call the active derm strategy

Audio Only - All Participan (01:00:02):
and

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:00:02):
really talking about.
the benefits of this active DERMand, you know, how it works for
you and you and you and you.
And it's one of the things thatreally, I think, is helping, um,
create that specificity and thatindividual, uh, personalization
that customers are looking for.

(01:00:24):
So I, but I agree.
I, if anyone can do it, it willcertainly be them.
That's incredible.

Hillary Clark-Mina (01:00:30):
I

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:00:30):
do

Hillary Clark-Mina (01:00:30):
have a personal question for you, Dr.
Anne.
Um, so you obviously we'relooking at you and I've been
admiring your skin, your hair,your brows are perfection.
It's not easy to have, you know,warmth in the hair and to find a
brow that is just the perfecttawny without being too gray

(01:00:51):
without being too orange or toobrassy.
And with all of your years inthe industry, I know we, we know
you have anything at yourfingertips, but what are some of
your favorite products andbrands that you personally use
and relate to?
You obviously love beauty andenjoy a healthy lifestyle.

(01:01:13):
So what beauty tips can youshare with

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:01:15):
us?
Well, you know, one of thethings that I know from talking
to other women, so many peopleget attached and are loyal,
Susan, to your point, um, tobeauty products early on and
they stay with them at least inpart.
And so I, I, And mentioned that,um, I remember when my mother

(01:01:40):
took me to a department storeand she took me to the Clinique
counter.
Well, I still use MoistureSurge.
I love Moisture Surge and someof their other products.
But then as I got older andparticularly when I started
working in the industry, Ilearned, um, and Susan, you may

(01:02:01):
remember, um, this littlecompany called Cradle Holdings.
And Erno Laszlo products thatwere founded and they had this
one product called TimelessSkin.
And I, I, I've used it at thattime.
And this has been like 20,probably 22, 3 years ago.

(01:02:24):
And they, uh, used to have it atBarney's.
And I just feel that I can't goout of the house without time
with skin, uh, to this day.
But then I use, um, a lot ofEstee Lauder products.
I love La Mer.
I love Estee Lauder.
And they're all just greatproducts.

(01:02:46):
And I love, um, I do like BobbiBrown.
makeup.
I like some MAC makeup, but, um,I do, I'm very particular about
the quality and I'm veryreluctant to try just anything
that I see that looks so cuteand tricky and great design,
great little, you know, uh,wonderful color packaging.

(01:03:11):
I'm, I'm very traditional inthat way.
I really kind of like to stickto the tried and true.
Tell us what lipsticks shadeyou're wearing.
You know what this is?
This is Tom Ford.

Susan Gerdeman (01:03:25):
I love Tom Ford lipsticks.
I love

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:03:27):
Tom Ford.
All of the eye shadow.
And the brown makeup is TomFord,

Susan Gerdeman (01:03:33):
beautiful.

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:03:35):
It's

Susan Gerdeman (01:03:35):
great.
Do you know what shade it is foranyone who's watching?
I'm taking notes.
We want to put it in the shownotes because your makeup looks
so beautiful today.
So pretty.
Someone might want to ask whatexact shade you have.
Do you know?
Wild

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:03:48):
ginger, wild ginger, wild ginger lip.
And the reason for it is it's, Ilove red.
I have red fingernails, redtoenails.
red lipstick.
But wild bit of a like an orangem with this hair somehow is of

(01:04:12):
the true reds.
But I l

Susan Gerdeman (01:04:17):
I love it.
I love it on you.
Perfect shade.
Look at you go.

Hillary Clark-Mina (01:04:21):
And you know, we have a little makeup
artist in there because she'stalking about undertones and
true reds and with all of yourtime in beauty and all the
conversations you've had acrossbrands.
I mean, I think that you couldbe educating in color theory and
brand and in, in just outsideof, you know, the psychology and

(01:04:44):
the coaching and the educationshe's got.
She's got more going on withbeauty than me.
She may get credit for thepsychology of color.
Now there's a class I'd like toteach.
Can we come back and maybe do anepisode on the psychology of
color?
If we can steal time in 2025,maybe.

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:05:03):
Yes, there, that, that is a great, great
subject because I think thatmost people.
They don't understand that whenthey see something they like
color wise, may not be the bestfor them.
And so they buy it and thenthey're sad about that and
they're, they regret theirpurchase.

Susan Gerdeman (01:05:22):
Yeah.
Oh, we're going to do that.
I love it.
I'm Dr.
Ann and we're going to do aclass on that.
For sure.
Did you notice my cheap, mycheap trick to get a second date

Hillary Clark-Mina (01:05:32):
worked?
I don't.
Hilary, you're so easy.
Thank you.
Dr.
Anne.
I mean, I don't have an, wehaven't gotten enough of you and
you've been so generous withyour time today.

Susan Gerdeman (01:05:44):
Um.
Our final question, Dr.
Anne, because as you know,Hillary is going to chain you
uh, and keep you here for thenext 10 hours, but we do have to
wrap up because I know you havea busy day.
Um, and it's a million dollarquestion.
It's a crystal ball question,and it's a question that
probably a lot of our listenersknow we're going to ask you now.

(01:06:06):
From a psychologist's point ofview, Where would you like to
see the cosmetic and beautyindustry grow in the next 20
years?
What would you like to seehappen?

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:06:20):
I would like to see it grow in a multi
dimensional way that always paysattention to, you know, the
basics of health, um, andwellness, spirituality, which is
certainly part of that, as wellas, um, the personal aesthetic.

(01:06:43):
And I also think To grow in away that, um, embraces
minimalism in terms of simplebut truthful is very important.
And I, that doesn't alwayshappen in this industry.
We don't sometimes know what istrue and what is not, but
certainly I would like to see itevolve in that way.

(01:07:07):
And I think that technology isgoing to play a part, but I do
not think it will be the be allend all because beauty and
aesthetic Is like poetry.
It's ethereal.
And, um, I think can only becommunicated person to person.

(01:07:27):
Beautiful.

Susan Gerdeman (01:07:28):
It's beautifully said.
And I think, um, I think that'ssomething that many brands, if
any brands are listening to thispodcast should definitely aspire
to making women feel good,making them feel seen and
understanding that Thepsychology of beauty is really
where beauty begins.

(01:07:49):
It is for sure.
Well, thank you.
I mean, you will, you will beback because

Hillary Clark-Mina (01:07:57):
we will forward all We will forward all
of the requests.
I'm certain that people will bebanging on our doors to know how
they can get more of you.
So we will forward them to yourresources and we will also start

(01:08:20):
taking little lists of questionsif people have them as well.

Susan Gerdeman (01:08:24):
And I know that some people may want to be able
to find you, um, and yourbusiness.
So we will be, uh, putting allthat in the show notes that they
can find on our website.
Um, we'll be posting this onInstagram as well as TikTok and
everywhere that you can findLifeGloss, you'll be able to
find

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:08:46):
so much, Susan.
Thank you, Hillary.
Thank

Hillary Clark-Mina (01:08:48):
you.
Such a pleasure.

Dr. Ann Beatty (01:08:51):
It's

Susan Gerdeman (01:08:51):
been my

Hillary Clark-Mina (01:08:52):
pleasure.
Thank you.
Thank you.