November 16, 2025 • 50 mins
A green shirt in the lobby can mean more than a friendly hello—it might be the quiet promise that you can worship in peace. We sit down with Gus and Gary, longtime law enforcement pros turned church servants, to explore how God redeems our work and how practical vigilance can coexist with deep, joyful faith.
Gus traces his journey from a mixed religious upbringing to a Bible-centered church that shifted him from checking boxes to building a living relationship with Christ. Gary’s doorway was unexpected: Friday jiu-jitsu classes with a pastor who rolls on the mat and opens Scripture on Sunday. Together they explain how a safety ministry grew from instinct to intentionality—SOPs, training, and a calm presence—so families can focus on the Word while a thoughtful team watches the room.
The stories go deeper than procedures. Gus recalls a chase and a sudden, unexplainable stop at the woods—later learning the suspect waited with a gun. That pause, he says, was God’s protection. Both men share regrets about missed moments to point people to Jesus and how Scripture, mentors, and community have made them bolder and kinder. We talk about serving without fear, letting God lead our careers, and seeing setbacks as protection or redirection. We also widen the lens beyond Sunday: coaching Special Olympics, volunteering in the city, and living so visibly that people ask, Why are you different?
If you’ve ever wondered how your weekday skills could matter in a church, or how to balance vigilance with worship, this conversation offers hope, clarity, and next steps. Join us to learn how availability becomes ministry, why community shapes courage, and how God uses ordinary work to guard, guide, and grow His people. Enjoyed this conversation? Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help others find it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
What's up, Life Talk family?
Welcome back to the Life TalkPodcast.
We are coming to you today, aswe usually are, with special
today guests.
I got uh plural.
We've got two very specialguests with us today.
First, we have Gus GustavoZeisek.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
Gus, how are you doing today?
Doing fantastic.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
Oh man, doing great sitting down with you guys.
And we have Gary Taylor.
Gary, how's it going today?
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Very good.
Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
Awesome.
Well, so good to have you guys.
You know, one of you guys wentenough.
I think I see you guys togetherall the time.
You're like a you know dynamicduo.
Yeah, we're a package deal now.
That's what I figured.
So I was like when we werescheduling this, I was like, I
don't know if I'm allowed tohave just one of these guys on.
I think they got to come ontogether.
But uh but for the Life Talkfamily, we are journeying
(01:01):
through the month of October ofNovember.
Man, I can see months fly by,but we're in November.
Our theme is we work.
And so, really, how God redeemsour work, how both serving and
what we do in our our day-to-dayand our careers is something
that is for God's glory.
It's something we should docompletely differently as
believers.
(01:22):
So I know Gus and Gary have someamazing stories, some very
interesting perspective that wewill get to, but uh just let's
get to know you guys a littlebit better for the listeners,
for those who don't know, and myunderstanding, Gus pulls ranks,
so uh guess a little bit aboutyourself.
SPEAKER_00 (01:39):
I got one step higher than Gary, so I guess I
get to go for that.
There you go.
So um yeah, moved down toDelaware in uh 1993.
Uh I was a graduate of WestfieldState criminal justice major,
played some football there.
From Massachusetts, right?
Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Okay, so we had Bill on last month, so we've got the
Massachusetts theme going.
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
The New England thing.
Some clam chowder is gonna becoming up here soon.
And um yeah, came here for thejob and uh eventually had a
friend on the same squad whointroduced me to this girl, and
that girl later became my wife,Melissa.
So we got married, had two kids,and um that's where we're at.
(02:18):
So during the course of ourcourtship, um I would say so.
Let's back up a little bit.
I I I kind of grew up with aPuerto Rican mother and a German
father.
So I I was brought up bothMormon and Catholic.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
That explains the Gustavo and the Zeisigan.
The Gustavo, right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Right.
Born in Puerto Rico, uh,eventually moved to Ithaca, and
then eventually Massachusetts.
And we were actually moving allover the place.
My dad was a contractor for thegovernment, so um yeah, the move
part wasn't too difficult forme.
But the point is that uh, youknow, we came together and I I
would say her faith wasdefinitely a little bit stronger
(03:00):
than mine at the time, but wedefinitely agreed that God was
going to be a part of our lives.
And uh we got married in aPresbyterian church.
Of course, I had to go throughpre-canon with a Catholic
priest.
So we did all that, got married,had our kids, and um here we are
today.
I guess that's like the preambleof what we are.
SPEAKER_02 (03:19):
So what would you say kind of the the faith
aspect, like you say, soundslike it wasn't growing up as
much?
Is there kind of that pointwhere really, you know, you say
definitely in your marriage youguys decided, but how did God
kind of work?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
So I I I think through time there's you know, I
was baptized in the Mormonchurch.
So as as a as a teenager, I hadmy faith and belief in God and
Jesus Christ as my savior.
But at a young age, it's adifferent perspective than what
you have now.
Um and there's a whole lifetimeof challenges and perceptions
(03:55):
and ideas that I guess we'regonna talk here about in a
minute that have definitely gonethrough my life to the point
that you know we're talkingabout now.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Um how did that transition from Mormonism?
Just curious.
I know we talked to Oscar, youknow, a few months ago.
He was in Jehovah's Witnesses,we've had some other people,
Chris Daly, who was in theMormon church, kind of like
realizing need to changebeliefs.
You know, I know you kind ofsaid that introduces you to the
Bible, but just curious how thatgoes.
SPEAKER_00 (04:21):
So that that's the key right there.
Uh, you know, when we gotmarried, we went from church to
church, and then nothing kind ofreally fit right until we came
here.
Um, this is back in the youknow, Everett middle school.
Early isn't it.
And and what struck me was thatour pastor was preaching the
word directly from the Bible.
(04:44):
Um and I I just latched on tothat.
Now we'll talk about this alittle bit more, but you know,
it back in those days I was moreof the guy who came in on on
Sunday, check the box, I did mything, I came to church, and now
it's definitely a differentperspective.
Uh huh.
It's more about building thatrelationship with God that you
(05:04):
have to come in, you have toserve, you have to pray and and
build that relationship, thatthat father-son relationship.
SPEAKER_02 (05:14):
We know we get to that relationship through
Christ, he establishes it, butyou can't really build that
relationship if it's just like,yay, thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
And you can't, you know, coming in to say, hey,
hey, look, look, look at me.
I walked into church and checkedthe box and then go watch
football.
That's not how you're gonna getthere.
SPEAKER_02 (05:31):
That's right.
Won't build the relationship.
Correct.
Well, good.
And so I know uh for both youguys, law enforcement.
So you came to Delaware for youknow, career in the Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
So uh work with the county police uh from '93, did
thirty-one years, was luckyenough to get promoted to
sergeant and eventuallylieutenant.
Um during that stint, I did sometime of detectives as a
undercover or you know, drugcop.
Um also did a stint doing childcrime investigations, uh
eventually got promoted,promoted uh to supervised people
(06:05):
on the road, eventually ran thedrug unit for several years, and
then ran the major crimesinvestigations unit and went
back to the road, got promotedagain, and kind of the same
thing, ran detectiveinvestigations and kind of
closed out my career back on theroad.
SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
Okay, very cool.
So for both Gary and Gus, theyhave a law enforcement
background, so we'll get to uhGary's, but just wanted to bring
that out 31 years, and I knowwe'll, like you said, talk more
uh just how God works throughthose experiences and uh various
other things, and so um, youknow, definitely look forward to
hearing you you more.
(06:42):
So well, Gary, I know we gotGus's brief testimony, but
Gary's sitting over herewaiting, you know, on the bench,
you know.
So but tell us more about Garyand you know, kind of your
upbringing, coming to faith andand Life House and just your
your story.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
All right.
Um I was born in Chester,Pennsylvania, um at about one
year old.
Uh my parents moved to uhNewark, Delaware, and uh they
still live in the same housethat I grew up in and been here
ever since.
Um lived and moved to Middletownum back in '97, and still in the
(07:19):
same house there.
Um so that's my Delawarehistory.
Uh my wife and I went to highschool together, met there and
dated and got married, you know,right out of college.
And so we've been together uh 40years almost now.
Okay.
So it's been a long run uh onthat.
Um what brought me to Life Houseis an interesting story.
(07:42):
I grew up unchurched.
Okay.
Um the only time I saw theinside of a church was weddings
and funerals.
That was about extent of mychurch experience.
And um a lot of those were wereCatholic related.
So I it wasn't enjoyable uhattending them.
Um just didn't seem right.
Um so but outside of that, Inever went to church.
(08:04):
It just wasn't a part of myfamily's life.
Um so what brought me toLifehouse though is a little bit
more of a funny story in thesense that um, you know, I train
in jiu-jitsu, as we've talkedabout before.
Um, and I used to train with aguy, Anthony Fulginetti.
Uh you know that guy.
Yeah, Lifehouse Church guy,great guy, great jujitsu guy.
(08:26):
Um, and so we we were trainingtogether, and he had told me
that, hey, I'm you know going tobe teaching on Friday mornings
over here at Lifehouse Church ifyou wanted to give me a hand.
Uh he said, 'cause you know,they get about you know, eight
to ten guys come out there thatyou know don't have much
experience yet, and he could usesome help.
And he was, oh, by the way, thethe pastor also takes jiu-jitsu.
(08:48):
He takes the class too.
Uh and I thought to myself,that's that's pretty wild, you
know, because jujitsu, for thosethat don't know, it's uh ground
fighting.
It's it's a violent combatsport.
You see it on UFC when the fightgoes to the ground, most of the
time they're applying jiu-jitsutechniques.
Um I was that piqued myinterest, the fact that you know
uh the pastor would would dabblein jiu-jitsu.
(09:12):
So so I came in, um, he hadalready been running a couple of
classes, got to meet the theguys on the mat, great guys, and
some of them I had already knownthrough other jujitsu areas.
Um so it was and I got to meetMark, Pastor Mark.
Um, great guy.
You know, I'm like, wow, this isyou know, this is really neat,
you know, to meet such a greatgroup of guys, um, and this is
(09:34):
you know church based and tomeet Mark and talk with Mark.
Um, so I was like, I I need tohear his sermon.
I need to check it out.
So funny story was is that youknow I go home and my wife,
yeah, how was it?
And I said, that was great.
I you know, I got to meet PastorMark, and uh you know, I thought
I'm gonna go to Sunday service.
I want to hear him speak.
And she was like, Do you want meto go with you?
(09:54):
And I was like, that's it's holdoff here.
Let's pump the brakes.
I don't know yet.
I don't know how things are.
I just know that you know, frommeeting him and and the other
guys on the map, these are youknow, these are really great
people.
But I let me check this outfirst.
It's the cop side of alwaysbeing kind of gotta investigate,
not sure yet, and I don't wantto, you know, bring in some
collateral damage here if thisthing doesn't work right.
(10:17):
Uh so went in and and got tolisten to uh first the music was
amazing, listening to uh Rob'steam and and the music just you
know was phenomenal.
And then Mark's sermon was wasphenomenal.
I wish I'd taken notes of whathis first sermon was that I
heard because you know becauseit was really the first true
experience I had with church,but it very impressed.
(10:38):
And uh went home and I told her,I said, yeah, this is we need to
check this out.
Yeah, this place is really,really something.
So that's what brought me toLife House.
And I don't know, I've maybeonly missed maybe one or two
Sundays in the last it'll bethree years in May um that I've
been attending.
And um, but yeah, I it's it's Ilook forward to it every Sunday
(11:01):
and and all.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
So that really kind of what brought you to faith was
really coming to Life House,just seeing a more faithful
church, hearing the truth, youknow, those kind of things
really you wouldn't say you hadit before, and and kind of
coming into Life House.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
And the other neat thing is when I would come in on
on Sunday, all of a sudden I sawa lot of people that I was
already friends with on theoutside.
Just didn't know, you know, theconnection with church.
Um, you know, so it was reallyneat seeing people that I
already had connections to.
SPEAKER_02 (11:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
So that that was the other neat thing.
SPEAKER_02 (11:35):
Having that community as well.
So yeah, changes when youfinally see, you know, again,
we're lifehouse, not a perfectchurch by any stretch, but when
you see a faithful churchversus, you know, we don't beat
up denominations so much, wecould do entire episodes, but
the Catholic, you know, that yougrew up in, where it's all
ritualistic versus truly theword and worship, how it can
make a difference.
(11:55):
And yeah, having a pastor whodoes jujitsu, not a bad thing,
you know, we're seeking to youknow reach and all that.
So that's awesome.
Yeah, Anthony's a good guy, andyeah, how that even jiu-jitsu
that speaking to ways our workand the things we do can reach
people, and you're a big exampleof that.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
What I've said is uh, you know, God found me, you
know, he came to where I was andfound what would bring me to
him.
And that was through jujitsu.
Yeah, and that's 100% becausethis had Anthony not had you
know the connection doing whathe was doing, I don't know that
I would have changed my paththat I was on.
(12:33):
Um just because, you know, uh Iwas already kind of you know
pretty late in life to startfinding, you know, God and and
all of that.
And it just again, it justwasn't a part of my life growing
up.
Um so it wasn't so unfortunatelyon that same side is I didn't
get to um expose my kids.
Um I have three kids, um and uhso I didn't get them into church
(12:57):
early on.
Um but the neat part is now thatmy wife and I have been coming,
uh our daughters, we have three,like I said, we have three, and
I have um two daughters and ason, and my daughters uh will
come to church now with us andand all.
Uh my son lives out of state,but you know, hopefully he'll
find God and find church and andfind his path.
(13:20):
That's right.
All in God's timing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:22):
It's never too late.
I think is the important part.
You know, I was my testimony'sback in there somewhere, but uh
yeah, I was like 28, you know, Ihad run from God for many years,
even though being around church,you know.
But God runs us down and nevertoo late, and then share with
our families.
And so awesome.
Well, good to get to know kindof just how you guys got here.
(13:43):
And for those who don't know,Gary and Gus have been uh very
instrumental.
And I know both of you guys arehumble to where you'd say it's
not all you.
We have a great safety team, butyou guys really help lead that.
So maybe just kind of you know,how through coming to faith, you
guys have come to be greatservants here, uh, really
through the safety team, usinggifts for you know serving the
(14:06):
Lord and working, you know, eachSunday.
So guess maybe kind of talkabout how, as you know, coming
to faith, life house, church,you know, how that's kind of
moved you.
You know, you said over the lastseveral years kind of feeling
that responding.
So how you kind of came tosafety team, serving, working
for the Lord, you know, what'sthat kind of prospect look like?
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Cops think in weird ways that a lot of people don't
learn that just talking to youguys.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's just a perspective thatyou see of life.
There's a complete culture worldout there that a lot of people
don't have, um, I guess for lackof a better term, the privilege
to say.
And one of those things is thatwhen you're sitting in church,
your cop mind is still running,and you're thinking, wow, if I
(14:52):
was going to commit something ordo something evil, this is a
really good place to do it.
Um, and I know I'm not the onlycop to ever think that.
And I'm sure many of them allacross the United States had
that same very thought.
And this was never planned orcoordinated.
It's just kind of like, I don'tknow, if maybe Gary can step in
on this too.
(15:12):
It just Gary's starting to go tochurch.
I'm going to this church, andall of a sudden, you know, ideas
kind of started flowing.
And Gary already had talked toum one of the elders, Mitch,
about it.
And before you knew it, thisthing started to kind of grow.
Um, and with the church'sblessing, we've been allowed to
have a safety team of you knowmade up of a lot of LEOs and
(15:35):
retired LEOs that are willing tocome every single weekend and
listen to a sermon, but alsoserve for a sermon to make sure
that everything's okay, thatthere's nothing going on.
And I'll I'll I'll let Garypiggy piggyback on that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
Yeah, so the interesting story and and uh to
be clear, um Jonathan and Robertare or the blue.
I mean, Robert, what he RobertAcuff, what he does, you know,
as far as keeping the schedulesand keeping all that stuff, is
we couldn't do it without him.
And Jonathan brings all theinstitutional knowledge for
Jonathan Bush.
Jonathan Bush.
SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
If anybody wants to hear from him, we talked
finances with him in inSeptember, so you can go back
and learn more about Jonathan.
SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Yeah, so they they kept they were running the
safety stuff and and doing afantastic job um during that
time and and how it came aboutfor me.
I had honestly wasn't looking todo that.
Like I said, it was the churchto me was new.
Like I was just talking abouthow I, you know, just found
faith and and was going.
So when I was coming on Sundays,um I was coming solely for the
(16:41):
word.
You know, like I I just wantedto absorb everything and um you
know, just listen to that.
And and it's tough when you'recoming from a law enforcement
background to try to play in twodifferent worlds.
Um so you know, if I'm gonnalook at things through a law
(17:02):
enforcement lens, it changes alot of dynamics for me.
Um and like I said, now all of asudden you're looking at exit
points, you're looking at weakspots, you're looking at, you
know, things that you might haveto figure out how to address if
something goes sideways on you.
Um so my role came about when umtalking to Keith Henry was they
(17:24):
wanted to start to develop anSOP.
The church was creating SOPsthroughout different areas of
the church, and he had uh askedme if I had any experience with
SOPs um with law enforcement,because they were wanting to
address some stuff with thesafety team.
And I said, uh, you know, I'mI'm pretty comfortable with
SOPs.
Gus and I have uh created manyof them um back in the day,
(17:46):
probably caused a few SOPs backin the day.
We gotta do something aboutthese guys.
SPEAKER_02 (17:51):
We need to need to present that's what I say.
Uh we're not law enforcement,but I'm like every policy,
there's somebody who screwedsomething up that we gotta
create a policy for.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
Yes.
A hundred percent.
Um so that was the first foraywas all right, yeah, I can help
do that.
And and then was like, hey,well, how's the training on such
and such?
Well, we don't have training.
Um all right, well, we probablyshould, you know, and start and
so at that point, then it was Iwas kind of starting into the
the path of you know the safetyteam with just helping out with
(18:24):
some guidance and that stuff,and then uh that just kind of
opened up, hey, we could, youknow, we've got some gaps and
some things that if we could addmore people, we can help
supplement what Jonathan and andRobert have been doing for so
long.
Um so and that's kind of how westarted to do that.
You know, like like Gus said,you know, there was a lot of us
uh with law enforcementexperience, um which I guess I
(18:45):
forgot to cover on my opening ofmy background.
Um I went on in '91 to countypolice, retired in 2011.
I served in uh pretty much alloperations uh during my time.
It was either patrol anddetectives.
Um that's pretty much my entirecareer.
Um worked in the same units thatGus did, um, as well as uh
(19:06):
burglary squad, uh major crimes.
Um so I was very blessed withthe career that I had in law
enforcement because I got towork in every div every part of
detectives.
Um so you know, uh bringing alot of those skill sets here and
then seeing all the otherofficers that I knew or knew of,
(19:26):
um, and then said, hey, youknow, we could use some more
bodies for here.
And everybody that I would talkto were like, oh yeah, I'm in.
Um so and this church was againvery blessed with the amount of
military, uh retired military,active duty, law enforcement,
and and just people who justwant to serve.
Um, you know, so we were able toreally supplement uh the team.
(19:49):
And and like I said, you know,with Jonathan Robert kind of
helping guide us throughout allof this and giving us the
institutional knowledge and andthings that they felt um needed
to be strengthened, we were ableto do.
Um so so that's kind of wherethe path kind of led to onto the
safety.
It really wasn't you know cominghere and saying, Oh, you need
(20:10):
this, and let me just jump.
It wasn't.
It was it started slow withhelping develop policy.
Policy led to training, trainingled to finding other gaps that
we needed to fill, and then wejust you know filled the gaps.
And like I said, you know, Gusbeing on the team with his uh
experiences helps strengthen us.
And like I said, the entireteam, everybody on the team
(20:31):
brings uh a ton of knowledge andexperience uh to us.
So it's it's really good.
SPEAKER_02 (20:37):
I would say too, kind of hearing you guys talk,
the important thing is youweren't really looking, but God
gave you a skill set, Godequipped you in unique ways and
opened the door for you to usethe skills you had to serve and
to work and uh be part of thechurch.
You probably didn't come in herethinking, you know, oh I'm I'm a
little you know, ELO, you know,I would I'm assuming that's
(20:59):
ex-law enforcement for all thelisteners out there and the SOPs
as standing operatingprocedures.
SPEAKER_00 (21:05):
That's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:05):
But uh seeing that door open.
SPEAKER_00 (21:07):
No, but you're absolutely right.
Like and I'm we when I I wastelling you in my intro, you
know, for the longest time I wasjust coming to church on a
Sunday checking off the box.
I was, you know, kind of lookingbehind my shoulder, making sure
everything was okay, but there'snever any sort of formal
training or SOP, anything likethat done.
And and what's wild about it isI guess Gary and I never talked
about this.
It's just kind of we were bothput in the situation in the same
(21:31):
place at the same time.
And it's like this is notcoincidence.
Um and I would say it grew fromthat.
SPEAKER_02 (21:38):
God really opened the door and seeing like, hey,
we have the skills, there's aneed, like you said, with no
coincidence.
God calls us to bring thoseskill sets.
I even, you know, as we'retalking crazy things, I'm a
former civil engineer, you know,now in ministry, but still, and
I remember coming here and therewas an issue with whether we put
up a stoplight outside thechurch.
And I'm like, who knew I wouldbe using civil engineering to
(22:00):
help my church, you know, familyin terms of like dealing with
stoplights and requirements.
So, like, whatever God'sequipped you to do, there are
ways to serve and do the work ofyou know that in the ministry.
Like, nobody should really comein here and be like, Yeah, I
can't do anything or what mytraining is, you know, it has no
relevance.
So I think you guys are realtestimony to that.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
And what you find, like when you talk about the
body of the church, the morepeople you ask, the more things
you find out.
Oh, well, this guy's you know,he's you know, certified in
first aid, and this guy's acertified nurse, and this is a
combat veteran, and this, youknow, the next thing you know,
you've got this awesome team ofyou know, uh a mix of people
that all have certain skillsthat can be applied here.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
Seeing how God brings the body together is
always an amazing thing.
So so maybe to share, you know,kind of as you guys have been
serving in this capacity, howhas that helped your faith
strengthen, you know, how yousee or are encouraged from it?
You know, is it kind of likedrudgery or is it a joy, you
know, to share maybe yourperspective as you've seen God
use you in these ways and and todo that work?
SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
Well, for me, I would say that I what I the most
enjoyment I get out of servingwith doing what we're doing, uh
especially on the safety team,is knowing that we're doing the
best we can to make sure theflock is protected.
Um, you know, and that whenpeople come here to serve or to,
you know, worship God and hearGod's word, that they can do it,
(23:28):
hopefully they're feeling safeinside there.
Um because uh right now with thethings that have been going on
in the world, you know, whereChristianity's been under attack
and churches have been underattack, uh, you know, I could
understand people having someanxiety, you know, coming in.
Um and I'm I'm prayful that ourpresence, you know, with the you
(23:50):
know, seeing the green churchand seeing the way, you know,
we're kind of spread out, thatwe're here to make sure that
they're able to enjoy their timewith God and and their word and
and and everything that theywant to do.
And that's why we rotate in andout with what we do so we can
also have that time um and doit.
So it's you know for me that'suh that's the thing that brings
(24:13):
me the most pleasure to do.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
Yeah, and the sad part is that the you have to
acknowledge that there is evilin the world.
And you see these thingshappening on a weekly basis now.
And it's not just targetingschools, it's targeting
churches.
Um and not of them unlike ours.
So if it can happen in uh Iforget the last one, uh Lincoln
(24:38):
University, 45 minutes away, itcan certainly happen in
Middletown Delaware.
SPEAKER_02 (24:43):
Oh sure.
Yeah, so so awesome that youguys have come and the work and
the joy of you know, again, Godgiving you, you know, kind of a
ministry and using your skills.
So I would certainly encourage,as we have in in our last
episode with Jelsea, you know,hey, if you're not serving, you
know, talk to somebody, shareyour gifts.
You know, there's tons of waysto plug in.
(25:03):
But uh I do want to talk to youguys, share a little bit of your
law enforcement experience.
You know, again, we were as wewere preparing for the episode,
and there's so much that youguys have been through and
sharing your face stories, youknow, reflecting, you know, on
years of of seeing God's handand and just a lot of that work
(25:23):
and even being in lawenforcement, you know,
biblically we see like we weretalking about, like you are
functioning in something thatrequires justice, that requires,
you know, how you view things,how you encounter evil, you
know, so much we could talkabout, but maybe you know, Gus,
if you want to kind of talkabout reflecting on the work
that you did, how you view thatthrough a faith lens, how it
(25:45):
kind of helped either strengthenyour face or faith, or whatever
you're willing to share.
I know there's a lot ofexperiences, maybe either God's
protection, you know, ways youwere able to witness or deal
with situations in your in yourwork.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
One of the the things that I I well I talk
about had the being in the drugunit was probably the funnest
thing I ever did.
Uh being in child investigationswas the most rewarding thing I
ever did.
Was there joy in it?
Not really.
Uh you're talking aboutinvestigations with abused
children, um, dealing withaccidents with children where
(26:19):
they've passed away.
Um and and I'll be honest, youknow, coming into questioning,
you know, like why wouldsomething like this happen?
Um but trying to keep your faithand build on that becoming
stronger through it.
Um But there's there'sdefinitely one story where I
have this is back before thedetective days where I was with
(26:40):
a partner in a two-man car, andwe're going on a you know, we're
we're stopping cars and beingaggressive, and we run a tag on
a car that comes back, I thinkit was stolen.
So we chase the thing, twopeople bail out.
My partner chases his guy, I goto chase my guy, and he gets his
guy.
And for some reason, I don'tknow why.
I was probably 24, 25 years oldat the time because I was still
(27:04):
in shape, I could run, I reallydidn't miss too many people.
I stopped.
I stopped right at the edge of aof a tree line and kind of let
the guy go.
I don't know why I stopped, it'sjust it's kind of unnatural for
me to do.
A couple days later, they end upidentifying the suspect, they
catch him, and they interviewhim, and they say, Well, the
reason I ran was I had a gun.
(27:25):
If the cop took one more stepforward, I was gonna kill him.
Um and that guy was me.
And I don't really I haven'treally shared that story with a
lot of people, but you talkabout checking your faith.
Um, that was the time that,yeah, I was like, Thank you,
God.
SPEAKER_02 (27:39):
Um no other explanation for that, right?
None whatsoever.
None whatsoever.
SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
Any other time you would have just plowed ahead and
yeah, like like I said, I was,you know, in my youth of 24, 25
years, it was basically acontinuation of college for me.
So for me to just stop was acompletely unnatural event that
I wouldn't have done unlesssomeone intervened on my behalf.
SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
And I know you touched on seeing a lot of
challenging things, and youknow, we could do a whole
episode just on dealing with alot of that, but also, like you
said, what you saw, especiallyworking with the kids, the
opportunity to make adifference.
I'm sure the challenges of youknow working through the drugs
and just seeing what that evilin sin will do, you know, seeing
(28:24):
that firsthand.
And it can be challenging, butyou know, how that work is doing
something to help others todefend the public, but maybe any
other you know, kind of momentsyou would share or anything that
how that work really impactedyour faith?
SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
Uh there is definitely evil in the world.
Um, but conversely, if there'sevil in the world, there has to
be good.
Um, and that comes through youknow, God and Jesus Christ.
As I grew older, and I told youI was a guy on the Sundays who
would check off the box, um, Icame to realize that this is
isn't a one-way street.
(29:01):
I have to work on myrelationship with God through
Jesus.
And the way to do that is cometo church, pick up the Bible,
start studying it, start readingit, and you're gonna start to
find, oh, well, you know, thismakes sense in the Old
Testament, let's go back to theNew Testament and check, oh,
that makes sense, and you startmaking connections and then you
start talking to other people,and they start educating you.
(29:23):
Well, if you think that'sinteresting, read this.
And before you know it, thisbook is is like your guide for
life.
Uh you look and hey, look, thesepeople did this two, three
thousand years ago, and we'restill doing it here today, and
we haven't learned anything fromit.
So we should read it and weshould learn from it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:42):
And like you said, it's a relationship, it's not a
religion.
Uh, I say that frequently,people might get tired of
hearing me say that, but it'slike you said, and that
relationship is something togrow.
So, you know, even kind ofreflecting, you know, you said
kind of over time used to bemore checking boxes, you know,
not in a regretful standpoint,but how.
That would have maybe helped youin earlier to build that
(30:03):
relationship.
And where I'm going isencouraging those, you know, who
may not be there.
SPEAKER_00 (30:08):
There is regret because I wish I had been more
faithful and more into the wordand the Bible 10, 15, 20 years
ago.
Um, you talk about seeing evil.
Maybe I could have directedpeople towards that.
Um, maybe uh one of the things Istruggle with is preaching the
word to someone else.
(30:29):
Um you don't want to take it andtwist it into something that
it's not.
Um but I think as you study moreand you learn more, you become
more confident with it.
Where I in the past I didn'thave that confidence.
SPEAKER_02 (30:41):
And I would say, especially in law enforcement,
you guys worked with a lot ofpeople and the things you see,
if you don't have faith, andthat's really tough.
And I know we hear, you know, Itried to go in the military, my
eyes are too bad.
That's a fun, fun fact.
I was going in the Navy and theydidn't like my eyesight.
So but dealing with, you know,other people, like you see those
things apart from Christ, how doyou deal with those?
(31:04):
So the opportunity to sharethat, you know, you hear a lot
of depression and anddifficulties in in that field.
So I'm sure you could probablycomment on how that would help
and maybe those experiences youhad, like you realized there was
something else going on, newenough, but how your work could
also minister to other people.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
Well, that's just that you have the opportunity to
come into a lot of contact witha lot of people that normally
you won't see.
Um, be it that homeless guy onthe corner, uh the guy who's
going through the drugaddiction, or the girl who's
out, you know, uh on thestreets.
Um you could have the ability togive the word to them and
(31:43):
actually make a huge impact onthem.
I mean, like like I look at itnow, man, if I could just go
back, like how cool would it beto have some of these people uh
six months down the road be achurch getting baptized?
And I missed out on that.
But I'm making it up now, um, ifthat makes any sense.
SPEAKER_02 (32:01):
Yeah, so God has plans and timing, but yeah, we
as Christians, we should have alittle bit of FOMO, not from
doing worldly things, but if wewe want to be part of God's work
in our last episode with uhJelsey, we talked about like
when you live it out in yourwork, you get to see God
working, you get to be a frontfront and center with what God
(32:21):
is doing in lives and be part ofthat.
And so, yeah, if it's when wemiss that opportunity to talk to
someone, you know, God's incontrol, he'll work it out.
But I missed out on the chanceto be used by God.
Not that it would that it would,you know, save me.
I'm already saved, but to sharethat with other people.
So that's good.
But um, so Gary, maybe I knowwe'll we're we're tag teaming,
(32:42):
maybe share kind of yeah, inyour career, you know, ways that
you've seen God work, you know,obviously jujitsu and those
things bringing you here toLifehouse and living out your
faith.
And but maybe just kind of talkabout how you saw you know God
working and and the work thatyou did and in light of your
faith.
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
Yeah, I mean, uh, like Gus was touching on, um,
when we're those of us in lawenforcement, you know, guys and
gals, um, reality is everybodythat we're dealing with, when we
for the most part, we'recrossing paths with them,
they're in the valley.
You know, um, they're notcalling us because they're
sitting on the mountaintopenjoying.
SPEAKER_02 (33:17):
Just come hang out and let's have a picnic or
something.
SPEAKER_01 (33:20):
There's a crisis going on, and and there was uh
because of that, there was a lotof missed opportunity looking
back on my career that we couldhave I could have provided
better guidance other thansaying, you know, here's your
report, we're gonna lock them upand and all that, you know, as
far as keeping everything justyou know by the book, um, and by
(33:42):
the book, the law book, not theBible.
Um, you know, where had I hadGod in my life during my career,
um I a lot of my perspectiveswould have been completely
different.
Um and I fully suspect myinteractions with a lot of
people would have been differentas well.
Um I I would have loved him andbeen able to um share God's
(34:04):
word, you know, when when peoplemaybe needed to hear it.
Um and and you know, so lookingback, you know, I know that and
throughout my career, you know,God was, you know, uh with me um
throughout.
Um I didn't realize it then.
You know, I didn't realize howGod was speaking to me in so
many ways, um, but I was sofocused on the world itself um
(34:28):
that I just didn't wasn'tlistening, you know, and I
wasn't paying attention.
Um that's why, you know, I tryto hit every Wednesday night,
you know, whether it's Biblestudy, whatever it is to help
educate myself on onunderstanding God's word and
then applying it to my life now.
It makes things so much easier.
(34:49):
Uh and and when I put mystruggles in God's hands, I I no
longer have the you know uh thestruggle.
You know, I'm like you know, ifthis is meant to be, you know,
it'll be.
And if it's you know, if this iswhat God wants, God'll make it
happen.
Um so I'm able to kind of justhand that off um and and just do
(35:10):
what I need to do, you know, byjust staying faithful.
Um so you know, I I my careerwould have been different the
way I handled a lot of thingsinternally with work.
Um my personality would havebeen probably more forgiving.
Um in law enforcement there's noroom for mistakes.
There isn't, you know.
Um because if you screw up,someone's gets hurt, um you
(35:35):
know, a victim doesn't get theservices that they should have
got, um, or you know, bad guygets away.
Um and you know, so you don'tgive God enough credit to help
you discern making the rightdecisions and doing the right
things, and and like Gus storyabout just suddenly stopping
before he went into the woods.
(35:57):
I and we were talking aboutbefore this.
We would have given, like if Iwould have rolled up on scene
afterwards and he's yeah, I juststopped, I I'd have given Gus a
hard time.
You know, I I would have bustedhis chops hard on on letting
this guy get away.
I mean, that's just kind of howwe treated each other on the job
is you know, we're rough on eachother um because we demand the
best.
Um and anything less than thatis gonna get uh a ribbing uh to
(36:21):
say that.
Um so uh like I said whenlooking back on on my entire
career, um you know, Goddefinitely was there the whole
time um speaking to me.
Yeah, even when I'm even when Iwas in the valley, not knowing
that what that was, you know,there was a reason I went
through some things um to helpme grow.
(36:42):
And all of that shaped who I wasthat led me here.
And then I think that has mademe so open to learning the word
so much more now because ofrealizing how much God was with
me for so long, um, and stillis, not like it was a part-time
thing.
Um but now that I hear and see,I'm so attuned now to the world
(37:05):
around me, but not looking at itthrough the lens of a worldly
view, but from a godly view.
So now when I hear somebody thatmight be struggling, I'm
realizing, oh, you know what?
God wanted me to hear thatbecause I have the ability to
help that person, you know, or Ican help in that situation, you
know, and and now I'm you knowvery attuned to uh serving
(37:26):
others.
SPEAKER_02 (37:26):
Yeah, and like you say, God has timing and equips
us.
You know, we go through thingsso that we can, you know, warn
others.
Maybe, you know, for me,spending lots of time away from
home and chasing career andthose kind of things.
Now I can tell everybody like,hey, don't do that, don't be who
I was, you know, get this rightearly, and we're able to share
(37:49):
others through the work thatwe've done and the
relationships.
I think, like you said, Gus,reaching so many people, talking
to so many people, especiallyyou know, having that career in
law enforcement, there's a lotof people in the valleys, like
you say.
Like some of us are like, Idon't even know around me is in
the valley.
You guys knew who was in thevalley, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:05):
You know, so but even even to kind of piggyback
on that, it's not even thepeople that you dealt with, it's
your coworkers as well.
You know, he's he's been asupervisor, I've been a
supervisor, and you havesubordinates that probably, like
Gary said, hindsight being 2020,you know, instead of giving him
a tongue lashing, I should havedirected him towards the word.
Or a lot of times, you know,when someone's not ready for a
(38:27):
transfer or promotion, well,maybe it's because God knows
you're not ready for a transferor promotion.
And that's universal, whetheryou're an engineer or a police
officer, firefighter, nurse,whatever.
Um and I wish I had more ofthat, which I'm kind of using
now.
You know, it's like, oh, maybeyou're not getting it because
you're not leading a straightlife, you're not ready for this,
(38:50):
you're not your maturity level'snot there.
There's other factors that God'ssaying maybe you need to, like
you just said, get some reps,get some experience before you
can go to the next level.
SPEAKER_01 (39:00):
Yeah, to jump on that, because I had an
experience um because I'm I'mstill in law enforcement, um,
and so I still uh interact witha lot of people uh in law
enforcement, and I'm fortunatethat even in my Bible study
group, we have you know someguys in there that are
relatively early on still intheir law enforcement career,
and sometimes when we had gettogether for Bible study, we end
(39:22):
up talking about the job, youknow, like there's something
that they're struggling with.
And you know, and I recall onesituation where you know one of
my buddies was strugglingbecause he was there was a
specific assignment he wasreally wanting to get, and uh he
didn't get it, and and he wasstruggling with with
understanding that.
And we talked about wasn't maybeGod could be protecting you too
(39:46):
by not giving you the some ofthe things.
There may be a reason uh thatsomething didn't pan out, you
know.
So, but back in the day, I wouldhave been exactly like he was.
I would have been you know,analyzing everything, where did
I make any mistakes and oh whodid they pick, and you know,
going through all this stuffinstead of looking back and
saying, hey, you know, what'sGod would want me to learn from
(40:08):
here?
Um what you know, God may beprotecting me from something
else, or can opening up a betterdoor.
Uh and down the road, uh, that'swhat turned out.
I mean, it worked out very wellfor the person, but at that
time, it you know, it was thatstruggle.
Um, but like Gus just said, as asupervisor, that would have been
a a much better way to approachsomebody who didn't get the
(40:31):
promotion, who didn't get thetransfer into detectives or
whatever it is that they werelooking at to kind of put it
under that lens versus, youknow, saying, you know,
something else that just wasn'tgodly.
Right.
Um, so so yeah.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (40:46):
So well, I know we could go on for hours.
I know you guys probably got,man, with all the years'
experience, how many stories?
And I'll have to have you backjust for like a war stories.
SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
I'd say we'll have the war story uh podcast.
But definitely editing.
Yeah, yeah, you better put adelay up button on this thing.
SPEAKER_02 (41:06):
Hope to get approval from the AG's office or the
county police, you know, towrite this book, you know, that
you guys need to write with allthe experiences.
But you know, anything thatwould be on your heart to share,
you know, how you approach yourwork.
You guys shared a lot of greatgreat lessons there and how you
view promotions, how you viewdifficulties, how we view you
know the work that we do orserving, just kind of any
(41:28):
closing thoughts from your all'sexperience and and how you might
uh encourage our listenerstoday.
SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
I have a couple.
Um when it comes to serving,yeah, you get to meet other
people with like interests, andyou know, you build
relationships based on that.
But I think for me, especiallylately, like when you when you
when you join a life group,there there are some people here
and we call them prayerwarriors, but they are just when
(41:55):
you have a question that youhave a mentor that you can go to
and ask, hey, I've been feelingthis or I've been thinking about
this, and they can relate you tothe scripture, read the
scripture, pray on it, and thenext thing you know, it's like,
oh, there's my answer.
Uh it it's a it's a fantastic,wonderful thing, and that's one
of the things I love about thischurch.
(42:15):
You know, it it's it's Bibledriven, and if you're looking
for the answers, open the bookand there it'll be.
SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
Absolutely, and getting into community, and
especially like you said, thatcan happen when you serve
because you're gonna find out alot more.
You serve with somebody, youlearn about them, like, hey, we
got to get in here and do thiswork and take care of these
kids, or have the safety team orusher team or whatever your
serving area, you're gonna talkto people, you're gonna meet
people and you'll get to knowthem.
(42:44):
I always said in my officiating,like I didn't really know
somebody until I went and workeda game with them, you know.
So, like you say, being inchurch, you're not really gonna
know people till you serve, getin a group.
And when you do, like itencourages God created us to
walk together.
So I think it's really good, youknow, encouragement to get in,
serve, do work, and you'll meetthe people, you'll strengthen
(43:05):
not only your relationshipvertically with God, but you'll
have those horizontalrelationships that hey, other
people who are willing to workare probably strong believers
who you want to you know betalking to.
Not that, you know, no offense,but Gus from 20 years ago just
sat in a you know chair andyeah, it's true, it's very true.
No offense taken.
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
You know, that's why I say Nate, I I what's this all
about?
And well, start reading this.
Like, ah, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (43:30):
Awesome.
That's really good.
So yeah, uh the only thing Iwould you know like to piggyback
on is that we can use peoplestill on the safety team, you
know, and 18 and older, one out,you know, we we we can
absolutely use more people.
Um one of my favorite verses,and and I'm still learning my
way through the Bible.
(43:50):
I'm still you know, I read itevery day and I'm still trying
to, so I sometimes I butcher,you know, I get or I'll mix a
few up, but Isaiah 6, 8, Ibelieve it's the one that send
me.
Here I am, send me.
Who will go?
Isaiah says here I am.
Yeah, that's probably one of mymost favorite.
Like if I could get that on ashirt, I think I would have it
on a shirt because uh, you know,it it's it's kind of how I feel
(44:12):
in anything.
If if if there's something I cando to make something better or
to help, send me.
Um I'm I'm in, I'm all in.
Um and so, you know, we whetherit is like you just touched
ushers or any of the other areasof the church, we need people to
you know step up and serve.
I mean, you know, we can use it,even if it's once a month or
once every couple of months, youknow, every little bit helps the
(44:36):
church, helps the body, and andultimately helps Christ.
And um, you know, we're we'reall for that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:41):
God wants your availability.
He doesn't necessarily he cangive you the abilities, but he
wants your availability, beingwilling, like you said, to to
work, just to do whateveropportunity.
And you know, we talked Chelsealast month is starting kids'
ministry, start with a somethingsmall, you'll be amazed what God
can do when you just take thatstep of obedience to just do
(45:03):
some work, to be part of thework God is doing.
And so then I guess in closing,too, the work that we do outside
of a church day to day, youknow, any kind of thoughts on.
I think you guys shared a lot ofgood wisdom on how you can speak
to others, you know, looking foropportunities, but any ways to
look at our work redemptively inChrist and and things you might
(45:23):
share, whether you're in lawenforcement or or otherwise.
SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Well, I mean, there's always also other
volunteer opportunities outthere to do some things if even
outside of church, like uh I'minvolved with Special Olympics
and my wife and I coach there,and that is such a a blessing to
do and and just watch all thoseathletes just come and just
enjoy life.
You know, if if you're everfeeling down about things, hang
(45:53):
out with with some SpecialOlympic athletes and and just
see how they can just makeeverything so much better.
Um, you know, just their outlookon everything.
And um I think we miss a lotwith you know, we get so caught
up in in today's world and andthe and the rat race of of
trying to you know earn thedollar and chase the promotion
(46:13):
and all of those things.
We don't look and see what'sreally important.
And and you know, you get backto you know what it is and and
enjoying life and enjoying thesmall things.
Um, we get focused on the bigthings when we probably should
you know tighten things up alittle bit and and look at
what's really important.
SPEAKER_02 (46:31):
Well, and working in our communities, I think that's
a great point, you know, notjust your nine to five career,
but you know, church is a greatplace to serve, but God calls us
to be part of our community,seek the peace of our city.
So whether it's Special Olympicsor anything out there, you know,
serving opportunities, our dailybread, we do some of that, but
there's other areas you canvolunteer and when you're doing
(46:55):
those things.
Well, why are you doing thesethings?
Well, I'm doing it as workingunto the Lord to serve my
community to better.
Those are great opportunities tobe a witness as well.
SPEAKER_01 (47:04):
And by example, outside of, you know, it's you
know, it's not a like you know,Gus was saying, yeah, I'd come
on Sundays check the box typething.
No, I mean that that doesn't cutit.
You know, yeah, you need to liveit, breathe it, and and be it,
um, and and be out in the world.
And and when people are lookingat you and looking at uh the
happiness you have or thesuccess you have and and
(47:25):
attributing everything to yourrelationship with God, um, you
know, you're you can spread theword even by example.
You know, you don't have to beon this, you know, on the corner
preaching things, if just liveby example.
You know, and do that.
Get out there and let people seeyou and know who you are and and
then know what you're about.
Um so at least for me, that'sthat's the way I do it.
SPEAKER_02 (47:45):
Uh we talk when we work that way, it opens those
opportunities to speak.
Like if you speak but you don'tlive by example, like we've
talked about a little bit thismonth, is if you're the laziest
person in your workplace, that'snot a good witness.
You know, most people are like,ah, well, oh, what you believe?
Yeah, I don't want that becauseyou're a you're lazy and don't
contribute.
But if you, like you say, youare living that out, being an
(48:08):
example in the community in yourworkplace, it's going to lead to
those opportunities of, oh, whyare you different?
What is moving and motivatingyou?
SPEAKER_00 (48:17):
But you t you teed me up really nicely because I
was going to talk about tithing.
And and you you mentioned aboutyou know chasing that dollar.
And at the end of the day, we'rethis materialistic world and
you're chasing that dollar forwhat?
Um, you can take that money andgo to charity.
You know, do you do you have abusiness?
Uh, can you convert some ofthat?
You don't have to be, like yousaid, the person preaching on
(48:37):
the corner.
You don't know how you don'thave to be the person, oh,
here's a check for$10,000.
You know, it if you can give,not time, but through financial
assistance, that works as well.
SPEAKER_02 (48:48):
Um taking us back to we invest, you know, laying up
treasure in heaven, our work isreally about having that
treasure that we give back tothe Lord.
I think that's kind of the pointyou're drawing out there that's
really good as well.
So cool.
Well, guys, I know we could,like I say, we could do our set
of record for our longestepisode talking to you guys, but
(49:09):
I do really appreciate the time.
I know on behalf of the church,appreciate all you guys do.
Uh, usually I was kind of sayingthis month is I know it's kind
of like twisting your arm.
You guys, like you say, wantingto give all the credit to the
rest of the team, which is justexhibit A of good servant
leadership, which Christ callsus to.
But I do appreciate you guyssharing your stories, a little
bit about you for the Life Talkfamily.
(49:31):
Hopefully, if you see Gary andGus, they'll probably be wearing
a green shirt, you know, walkingaround the lobby.
Make sure you let these guys,you know, you appreciate them
and and the whole team, anybodywearing a green shirt, that uh
they are here, you know, just inthe world we live in to keep us
safe.
We trust in the Lord, but hecalls us to uh be vigilant, to
you know, be wise as serpents.
(49:53):
So appreciate that you guysserve so well and just sharing
some of your history and all youguys do here.
So thanks again for taking thetime.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, thanks for having us.
All right, and Life Talk Family,we will see you next time.
Thanks for tuning in to the LifeTalk Podcast.
If this episode encouraged you,please be sure to like, comment,
(50:14):
subscribe, and leave a review soothers can find this content as
well.
And we'll look forward to seeingyou next Monday for another
great episode.
What's up, Life Talk family?
Welcome back to the Life TalkPodcast.
We are coming to you today, aswe usually are, with special
today guests.
I got uh plural.
We've got two very specialguests with us today.
First, we have Gus GustavoZeisek.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
Gus, how are you doing today?
Doing fantastic.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (00:33):
Oh man, doing great sitting down with you guys.
And we have Gary Taylor.
Gary, how's it going today?
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Very good.
Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
Awesome.
Well, so good to have you guys.
You know, one of you guys wentenough.
I think I see you guys togetherall the time.
You're like a you know dynamicduo.
Yeah, we're a package deal now.
That's what I figured.
So I was like when we werescheduling this, I was like, I
don't know if I'm allowed tohave just one of these guys on.
I think they got to come ontogether.
But uh but for the Life Talkfamily, we are journeying
(01:01):
through the month of October ofNovember.
Man, I can see months fly by,but we're in November.
Our theme is we work.
And so, really, how God redeemsour work, how both serving and
what we do in our our day-to-dayand our careers is something
that is for God's glory.
It's something we should docompletely differently as
believers.
(01:22):
So I know Gus and Gary have someamazing stories, some very
interesting perspective that wewill get to, but uh just let's
get to know you guys a littlebit better for the listeners,
for those who don't know, and myunderstanding, Gus pulls ranks,
so uh guess a little bit aboutyourself.
SPEAKER_00 (01:39):
I got one step higher than Gary, so I guess I
get to go for that.
There you go.
So um yeah, moved down toDelaware in uh 1993.
Uh I was a graduate of WestfieldState criminal justice major,
played some football there.
From Massachusetts, right?
Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Okay, so we had Bill on last month, so we've got the
Massachusetts theme going.
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
The New England thing.
Some clam chowder is gonna becoming up here soon.
And um yeah, came here for thejob and uh eventually had a
friend on the same squad whointroduced me to this girl, and
that girl later became my wife,Melissa.
So we got married, had two kids,and um that's where we're at.
(02:18):
So during the course of ourcourtship, um I would say so.
Let's back up a little bit.
I I I kind of grew up with aPuerto Rican mother and a German
father.
So I I was brought up bothMormon and Catholic.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
That explains the Gustavo and the Zeisigan.
The Gustavo, right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Right.
Born in Puerto Rico, uh,eventually moved to Ithaca, and
then eventually Massachusetts.
And we were actually moving allover the place.
My dad was a contractor for thegovernment, so um yeah, the move
part wasn't too difficult forme.
But the point is that uh, youknow, we came together and I I
would say her faith wasdefinitely a little bit stronger
(03:00):
than mine at the time, but wedefinitely agreed that God was
going to be a part of our lives.
And uh we got married in aPresbyterian church.
Of course, I had to go throughpre-canon with a Catholic
priest.
So we did all that, got married,had our kids, and um here we are
today.
I guess that's like the preambleof what we are.
SPEAKER_02 (03:19):
So what would you say kind of the the faith
aspect, like you say, soundslike it wasn't growing up as
much?
Is there kind of that pointwhere really, you know, you say
definitely in your marriage youguys decided, but how did God
kind of work?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
So I I I think through time there's you know, I
was baptized in the Mormonchurch.
So as as a as a teenager, I hadmy faith and belief in God and
Jesus Christ as my savior.
But at a young age, it's adifferent perspective than what
you have now.
Um and there's a whole lifetimeof challenges and perceptions
(03:55):
and ideas that I guess we'regonna talk here about in a
minute that have definitely gonethrough my life to the point
that you know we're talkingabout now.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Um how did that transition from Mormonism?
Just curious.
I know we talked to Oscar, youknow, a few months ago.
He was in Jehovah's Witnesses,we've had some other people,
Chris Daly, who was in theMormon church, kind of like
realizing need to changebeliefs.
You know, I know you kind ofsaid that introduces you to the
Bible, but just curious how thatgoes.
SPEAKER_00 (04:21):
So that that's the key right there.
Uh, you know, when we gotmarried, we went from church to
church, and then nothing kind ofreally fit right until we came
here.
Um, this is back in the youknow, Everett middle school.
Early isn't it.
And and what struck me was thatour pastor was preaching the
word directly from the Bible.
(04:44):
Um and I I just latched on tothat.
Now we'll talk about this alittle bit more, but you know,
it back in those days I was moreof the guy who came in on on
Sunday, check the box, I did mything, I came to church, and now
it's definitely a differentperspective.
Uh huh.
It's more about building thatrelationship with God that you
(05:04):
have to come in, you have toserve, you have to pray and and
build that relationship, thatthat father-son relationship.
SPEAKER_02 (05:14):
We know we get to that relationship through
Christ, he establishes it, butyou can't really build that
relationship if it's just like,yay, thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (05:22):
And you can't, you know, coming in to say, hey,
hey, look, look, look at me.
I walked into church and checkedthe box and then go watch
football.
That's not how you're gonna getthere.
SPEAKER_02 (05:31):
That's right.
Won't build the relationship.
Correct.
Well, good.
And so I know uh for both youguys, law enforcement.
So you came to Delaware for youknow, career in the Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
So uh work with the county police uh from '93, did
thirty-one years, was luckyenough to get promoted to
sergeant and eventuallylieutenant.
Um during that stint, I did sometime of detectives as a
undercover or you know, drugcop.
Um also did a stint doing childcrime investigations, uh
eventually got promoted,promoted uh to supervised people
(06:05):
on the road, eventually ran thedrug unit for several years, and
then ran the major crimesinvestigations unit and went
back to the road, got promotedagain, and kind of the same
thing, ran detectiveinvestigations and kind of
closed out my career back on theroad.
SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
Okay, very cool.
So for both Gary and Gus, theyhave a law enforcement
background, so we'll get to uhGary's, but just wanted to bring
that out 31 years, and I knowwe'll, like you said, talk more
uh just how God works throughthose experiences and uh various
other things, and so um, youknow, definitely look forward to
hearing you you more.
(06:42):
So well, Gary, I know we gotGus's brief testimony, but
Gary's sitting over herewaiting, you know, on the bench,
you know.
So but tell us more about Garyand you know, kind of your
upbringing, coming to faith andand Life House and just your
your story.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
All right.
Um I was born in Chester,Pennsylvania, um at about one
year old.
Uh my parents moved to uhNewark, Delaware, and uh they
still live in the same housethat I grew up in and been here
ever since.
Um lived and moved to Middletownum back in '97, and still in the
(07:19):
same house there.
Um so that's my Delawarehistory.
Uh my wife and I went to highschool together, met there and
dated and got married, you know,right out of college.
And so we've been together uh 40years almost now.
Okay.
So it's been a long run uh onthat.
Um what brought me to Life Houseis an interesting story.
(07:42):
I grew up unchurched.
Okay.
Um the only time I saw theinside of a church was weddings
and funerals.
That was about extent of mychurch experience.
And um a lot of those were wereCatholic related.
So I it wasn't enjoyable uhattending them.
Um just didn't seem right.
Um so but outside of that, Inever went to church.
(08:04):
It just wasn't a part of myfamily's life.
Um so what brought me toLifehouse though is a little bit
more of a funny story in thesense that um, you know, I train
in jiu-jitsu, as we've talkedabout before.
Um, and I used to train with aguy, Anthony Fulginetti.
Uh you know that guy.
Yeah, Lifehouse Church guy,great guy, great jujitsu guy.
(08:26):
Um, and so we we were trainingtogether, and he had told me
that, hey, I'm you know going tobe teaching on Friday mornings
over here at Lifehouse Church ifyou wanted to give me a hand.
Uh he said, 'cause you know,they get about you know, eight
to ten guys come out there thatyou know don't have much
experience yet, and he could usesome help.
And he was, oh, by the way, thethe pastor also takes jiu-jitsu.
(08:48):
He takes the class too.
Uh and I thought to myself,that's that's pretty wild, you
know, because jujitsu, for thosethat don't know, it's uh ground
fighting.
It's it's a violent combatsport.
You see it on UFC when the fightgoes to the ground, most of the
time they're applying jiu-jitsutechniques.
Um I was that piqued myinterest, the fact that you know
uh the pastor would would dabblein jiu-jitsu.
(09:12):
So so I came in, um, he hadalready been running a couple of
classes, got to meet the theguys on the mat, great guys, and
some of them I had already knownthrough other jujitsu areas.
Um so it was and I got to meetMark, Pastor Mark.
Um, great guy.
You know, I'm like, wow, this isyou know, this is really neat,
you know, to meet such a greatgroup of guys, um, and this is
(09:34):
you know church based and tomeet Mark and talk with Mark.
Um, so I was like, I I need tohear his sermon.
I need to check it out.
So funny story was is that youknow I go home and my wife,
yeah, how was it?
And I said, that was great.
I you know, I got to meet PastorMark, and uh you know, I thought
I'm gonna go to Sunday service.
I want to hear him speak.
And she was like, Do you want meto go with you?
(09:54):
And I was like, that's it's holdoff here.
Let's pump the brakes.
I don't know yet.
I don't know how things are.
I just know that you know, frommeeting him and and the other
guys on the map, these are youknow, these are really great
people.
But I let me check this outfirst.
It's the cop side of alwaysbeing kind of gotta investigate,
not sure yet, and I don't wantto, you know, bring in some
collateral damage here if thisthing doesn't work right.
(10:17):
Uh so went in and and got tolisten to uh first the music was
amazing, listening to uh Rob'steam and and the music just you
know was phenomenal.
And then Mark's sermon was wasphenomenal.
I wish I'd taken notes of whathis first sermon was that I
heard because you know becauseit was really the first true
experience I had with church,but it very impressed.
(10:38):
And uh went home and I told her,I said, yeah, this is we need to
check this out.
Yeah, this place is really,really something.
So that's what brought me toLife House.
And I don't know, I've maybeonly missed maybe one or two
Sundays in the last it'll bethree years in May um that I've
been attending.
And um, but yeah, I it's it's Ilook forward to it every Sunday
(11:01):
and and all.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
So that really kind of what brought you to faith was
really coming to Life House,just seeing a more faithful
church, hearing the truth, youknow, those kind of things
really you wouldn't say you hadit before, and and kind of
coming into Life House.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
And the other neat thing is when I would come in on
on Sunday, all of a sudden I sawa lot of people that I was
already friends with on theoutside.
Just didn't know, you know, theconnection with church.
Um, you know, so it was reallyneat seeing people that I
already had connections to.
SPEAKER_02 (11:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
So that that was the other neat thing.
SPEAKER_02 (11:35):
Having that community as well.
So yeah, changes when youfinally see, you know, again,
we're lifehouse, not a perfectchurch by any stretch, but when
you see a faithful churchversus, you know, we don't beat
up denominations so much, wecould do entire episodes, but
the Catholic, you know, that yougrew up in, where it's all
ritualistic versus truly theword and worship, how it can
make a difference.
(11:55):
And yeah, having a pastor whodoes jujitsu, not a bad thing,
you know, we're seeking to youknow reach and all that.
So that's awesome.
Yeah, Anthony's a good guy, andyeah, how that even jiu-jitsu
that speaking to ways our workand the things we do can reach
people, and you're a big exampleof that.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
What I've said is uh, you know, God found me, you
know, he came to where I was andfound what would bring me to
him.
And that was through jujitsu.
Yeah, and that's 100% becausethis had Anthony not had you
know the connection doing whathe was doing, I don't know that
I would have changed my paththat I was on.
(12:33):
Um just because, you know, uh Iwas already kind of you know
pretty late in life to startfinding, you know, God and and
all of that.
And it just again, it justwasn't a part of my life growing
up.
Um so it wasn't so unfortunatelyon that same side is I didn't
get to um expose my kids.
Um I have three kids, um and uhso I didn't get them into church
(12:57):
early on.
Um but the neat part is now thatmy wife and I have been coming,
uh our daughters, we have three,like I said, we have three, and
I have um two daughters and ason, and my daughters uh will
come to church now with us andand all.
Uh my son lives out of state,but you know, hopefully he'll
find God and find church and andfind his path.
(13:20):
That's right.
All in God's timing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:22):
It's never too late.
I think is the important part.
You know, I was my testimony'sback in there somewhere, but uh
yeah, I was like 28, you know, Ihad run from God for many years,
even though being around church,you know.
But God runs us down and nevertoo late, and then share with
our families.
And so awesome.
Well, good to get to know kindof just how you guys got here.
(13:43):
And for those who don't know,Gary and Gus have been uh very
instrumental.
And I know both of you guys arehumble to where you'd say it's
not all you.
We have a great safety team, butyou guys really help lead that.
So maybe just kind of you know,how through coming to faith, you
guys have come to be greatservants here, uh, really
through the safety team, usinggifts for you know serving the
(14:06):
Lord and working, you know, eachSunday.
So guess maybe kind of talkabout how, as you know, coming
to faith, life house, church,you know, how that's kind of
moved you.
You know, you said over the lastseveral years kind of feeling
that responding.
So how you kind of came tosafety team, serving, working
for the Lord, you know, what'sthat kind of prospect look like?
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Cops think in weird ways that a lot of people don't
learn that just talking to youguys.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's just a perspective thatyou see of life.
There's a complete culture worldout there that a lot of people
don't have, um, I guess for lackof a better term, the privilege
to say.
And one of those things is thatwhen you're sitting in church,
your cop mind is still running,and you're thinking, wow, if I
(14:52):
was going to commit something ordo something evil, this is a
really good place to do it.
Um, and I know I'm not the onlycop to ever think that.
And I'm sure many of them allacross the United States had
that same very thought.
And this was never planned orcoordinated.
It's just kind of like, I don'tknow, if maybe Gary can step in
on this too.
(15:12):
It just Gary's starting to go tochurch.
I'm going to this church, andall of a sudden, you know, ideas
kind of started flowing.
And Gary already had talked toum one of the elders, Mitch,
about it.
And before you knew it, thisthing started to kind of grow.
Um, and with the church'sblessing, we've been allowed to
have a safety team of you knowmade up of a lot of LEOs and
(15:35):
retired LEOs that are willing tocome every single weekend and
listen to a sermon, but alsoserve for a sermon to make sure
that everything's okay, thatthere's nothing going on.
And I'll I'll I'll let Garypiggy piggyback on that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
Yeah, so the interesting story and and uh to
be clear, um Jonathan and Robertare or the blue.
I mean, Robert, what he RobertAcuff, what he does, you know,
as far as keeping the schedulesand keeping all that stuff, is
we couldn't do it without him.
And Jonathan brings all theinstitutional knowledge for
Jonathan Bush.
Jonathan Bush.
SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
If anybody wants to hear from him, we talked
finances with him in inSeptember, so you can go back
and learn more about Jonathan.
SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Yeah, so they they kept they were running the
safety stuff and and doing afantastic job um during that
time and and how it came aboutfor me.
I had honestly wasn't looking todo that.
Like I said, it was the churchto me was new.
Like I was just talking abouthow I, you know, just found
faith and and was going.
So when I was coming on Sundays,um I was coming solely for the
(16:41):
word.
You know, like I I just wantedto absorb everything and um you
know, just listen to that.
And and it's tough when you'recoming from a law enforcement
background to try to play in twodifferent worlds.
Um so you know, if I'm gonnalook at things through a law
(17:02):
enforcement lens, it changes alot of dynamics for me.
Um and like I said, now all of asudden you're looking at exit
points, you're looking at weakspots, you're looking at, you
know, things that you might haveto figure out how to address if
something goes sideways on you.
Um so my role came about when umtalking to Keith Henry was they
(17:24):
wanted to start to develop anSOP.
The church was creating SOPsthroughout different areas of
the church, and he had uh askedme if I had any experience with
SOPs um with law enforcement,because they were wanting to
address some stuff with thesafety team.
And I said, uh, you know, I'mI'm pretty comfortable with
SOPs.
Gus and I have uh created manyof them um back in the day,
(17:46):
probably caused a few SOPs backin the day.
We gotta do something aboutthese guys.
SPEAKER_02 (17:51):
We need to need to present that's what I say.
Uh we're not law enforcement,but I'm like every policy,
there's somebody who screwedsomething up that we gotta
create a policy for.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
Yes.
A hundred percent.
Um so that was the first foraywas all right, yeah, I can help
do that.
And and then was like, hey,well, how's the training on such
and such?
Well, we don't have training.
Um all right, well, we probablyshould, you know, and start and
so at that point, then it was Iwas kind of starting into the
the path of you know the safetyteam with just helping out with
(18:24):
some guidance and that stuff,and then uh that just kind of
opened up, hey, we could, youknow, we've got some gaps and
some things that if we could addmore people, we can help
supplement what Jonathan and andRobert have been doing for so
long.
Um so and that's kind of how westarted to do that.
You know, like like Gus said,you know, there was a lot of us
uh with law enforcementexperience, um which I guess I
(18:45):
forgot to cover on my opening ofmy background.
Um I went on in '91 to countypolice, retired in 2011.
I served in uh pretty much alloperations uh during my time.
It was either patrol anddetectives.
Um that's pretty much my entirecareer.
Um worked in the same units thatGus did, um, as well as uh
(19:06):
burglary squad, uh major crimes.
Um so I was very blessed withthe career that I had in law
enforcement because I got towork in every div every part of
detectives.
Um so you know, uh bringing alot of those skill sets here and
then seeing all the otherofficers that I knew or knew of,
(19:26):
um, and then said, hey, youknow, we could use some more
bodies for here.
And everybody that I would talkto were like, oh yeah, I'm in.
Um so and this church was againvery blessed with the amount of
military, uh retired military,active duty, law enforcement,
and and just people who justwant to serve.
Um, you know, so we were able toreally supplement uh the team.
(19:49):
And and like I said, you know,with Jonathan Robert kind of
helping guide us throughout allof this and giving us the
institutional knowledge and andthings that they felt um needed
to be strengthened, we were ableto do.
Um so so that's kind of wherethe path kind of led to onto the
safety.
It really wasn't you know cominghere and saying, Oh, you need
(20:10):
this, and let me just jump.
It wasn't.
It was it started slow withhelping develop policy.
Policy led to training, trainingled to finding other gaps that
we needed to fill, and then wejust you know filled the gaps.
And like I said, you know, Gusbeing on the team with his uh
experiences helps strengthen us.
And like I said, the entireteam, everybody on the team
(20:31):
brings uh a ton of knowledge andexperience uh to us.
So it's it's really good.
SPEAKER_02 (20:37):
I would say too, kind of hearing you guys talk,
the important thing is youweren't really looking, but God
gave you a skill set, Godequipped you in unique ways and
opened the door for you to usethe skills you had to serve and
to work and uh be part of thechurch.
You probably didn't come in herethinking, you know, oh I'm I'm a
little you know, ELO, you know,I would I'm assuming that's
(20:59):
ex-law enforcement for all thelisteners out there and the SOPs
as standing operatingprocedures.
SPEAKER_00 (21:05):
That's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:05):
But uh seeing that door open.
SPEAKER_00 (21:07):
No, but you're absolutely right.
Like and I'm we when I I wastelling you in my intro, you
know, for the longest time I wasjust coming to church on a
Sunday checking off the box.
I was, you know, kind of lookingbehind my shoulder, making sure
everything was okay, but there'snever any sort of formal
training or SOP, anything likethat done.
And and what's wild about it isI guess Gary and I never talked
about this.
It's just kind of we were bothput in the situation in the same
(21:31):
place at the same time.
And it's like this is notcoincidence.
Um and I would say it grew fromthat.
SPEAKER_02 (21:38):
God really opened the door and seeing like, hey,
we have the skills, there's aneed, like you said, with no
coincidence.
God calls us to bring thoseskill sets.
I even, you know, as we'retalking crazy things, I'm a
former civil engineer, you know,now in ministry, but still, and
I remember coming here and therewas an issue with whether we put
up a stoplight outside thechurch.
And I'm like, who knew I wouldbe using civil engineering to
(22:00):
help my church, you know, familyin terms of like dealing with
stoplights and requirements.
So, like, whatever God'sequipped you to do, there are
ways to serve and do the work ofyou know that in the ministry.
Like, nobody should really comein here and be like, Yeah, I
can't do anything or what mytraining is, you know, it has no
relevance.
So I think you guys are realtestimony to that.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
And what you find, like when you talk about the
body of the church, the morepeople you ask, the more things
you find out.
Oh, well, this guy's you know,he's you know, certified in
first aid, and this guy's acertified nurse, and this is a
combat veteran, and this, youknow, the next thing you know,
you've got this awesome team ofyou know, uh a mix of people
that all have certain skillsthat can be applied here.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
Seeing how God brings the body together is
always an amazing thing.
So so maybe to share, you know,kind of as you guys have been
serving in this capacity, howhas that helped your faith
strengthen, you know, how yousee or are encouraged from it?
You know, is it kind of likedrudgery or is it a joy, you
know, to share maybe yourperspective as you've seen God
use you in these ways and and todo that work?
SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
Well, for me, I would say that I what I the most
enjoyment I get out of servingwith doing what we're doing, uh
especially on the safety team,is knowing that we're doing the
best we can to make sure theflock is protected.
Um, you know, and that whenpeople come here to serve or to,
you know, worship God and hearGod's word, that they can do it,
(23:28):
hopefully they're feeling safeinside there.
Um because uh right now with thethings that have been going on
in the world, you know, whereChristianity's been under attack
and churches have been underattack, uh, you know, I could
understand people having someanxiety, you know, coming in.
Um and I'm I'm prayful that ourpresence, you know, with the you
(23:50):
know, seeing the green churchand seeing the way, you know,
we're kind of spread out, thatwe're here to make sure that
they're able to enjoy their timewith God and and their word and
and and everything that theywant to do.
And that's why we rotate in andout with what we do so we can
also have that time um and doit.
So it's you know for me that'suh that's the thing that brings
(24:13):
me the most pleasure to do.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
Yeah, and the sad part is that the you have to
acknowledge that there is evilin the world.
And you see these thingshappening on a weekly basis now.
And it's not just targetingschools, it's targeting
churches.
Um and not of them unlike ours.
So if it can happen in uh Iforget the last one, uh Lincoln
(24:38):
University, 45 minutes away, itcan certainly happen in
Middletown Delaware.
SPEAKER_02 (24:43):
Oh sure.
Yeah, so so awesome that youguys have come and the work and
the joy of you know, again, Godgiving you, you know, kind of a
ministry and using your skills.
So I would certainly encourage,as we have in in our last
episode with Jelsea, you know,hey, if you're not serving, you
know, talk to somebody, shareyour gifts.
You know, there's tons of waysto plug in.
(25:03):
But uh I do want to talk to youguys, share a little bit of your
law enforcement experience.
You know, again, we were as wewere preparing for the episode,
and there's so much that youguys have been through and
sharing your face stories, youknow, reflecting, you know, on
years of of seeing God's handand and just a lot of that work
(25:23):
and even being in lawenforcement, you know,
biblically we see like we weretalking about, like you are
functioning in something thatrequires justice, that requires,
you know, how you view things,how you encounter evil, you
know, so much we could talkabout, but maybe you know, Gus,
if you want to kind of talkabout reflecting on the work
that you did, how you view thatthrough a faith lens, how it
(25:45):
kind of helped either strengthenyour face or faith, or whatever
you're willing to share.
I know there's a lot ofexperiences, maybe either God's
protection, you know, ways youwere able to witness or deal
with situations in your in yourwork.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
One of the the things that I I well I talk
about had the being in the drugunit was probably the funnest
thing I ever did.
Uh being in child investigationswas the most rewarding thing I
ever did.
Was there joy in it?
Not really.
Uh you're talking aboutinvestigations with abused
children, um, dealing withaccidents with children where
(26:19):
they've passed away.
Um and and I'll be honest, youknow, coming into questioning,
you know, like why wouldsomething like this happen?
Um but trying to keep your faithand build on that becoming
stronger through it.
Um But there's there'sdefinitely one story where I
have this is back before thedetective days where I was with
(26:40):
a partner in a two-man car, andwe're going on a you know, we're
we're stopping cars and beingaggressive, and we run a tag on
a car that comes back, I thinkit was stolen.
So we chase the thing, twopeople bail out.
My partner chases his guy, I goto chase my guy, and he gets his
guy.
And for some reason, I don'tknow why.
I was probably 24, 25 years oldat the time because I was still
(27:04):
in shape, I could run, I reallydidn't miss too many people.
I stopped.
I stopped right at the edge of aof a tree line and kind of let
the guy go.
I don't know why I stopped, it'sjust it's kind of unnatural for
me to do.
A couple days later, they end upidentifying the suspect, they
catch him, and they interviewhim, and they say, Well, the
reason I ran was I had a gun.
(27:25):
If the cop took one more stepforward, I was gonna kill him.
Um and that guy was me.
And I don't really I haven'treally shared that story with a
lot of people, but you talkabout checking your faith.
Um, that was the time that,yeah, I was like, Thank you,
God.
SPEAKER_02 (27:39):
Um no other explanation for that, right?
None whatsoever.
None whatsoever.
SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
Any other time you would have just plowed ahead and
yeah, like like I said, I was,you know, in my youth of 24, 25
years, it was basically acontinuation of college for me.
So for me to just stop was acompletely unnatural event that
I wouldn't have done unlesssomeone intervened on my behalf.
SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
And I know you touched on seeing a lot of
challenging things, and youknow, we could do a whole
episode just on dealing with alot of that, but also, like you
said, what you saw, especiallyworking with the kids, the
opportunity to make adifference.
I'm sure the challenges of youknow working through the drugs
and just seeing what that evilin sin will do, you know, seeing
(28:24):
that firsthand.
And it can be challenging, butyou know, how that work is doing
something to help others todefend the public, but maybe any
other you know, kind of momentsyou would share or anything that
how that work really impactedyour faith?
SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
Uh there is definitely evil in the world.
Um, but conversely, if there'sevil in the world, there has to
be good.
Um, and that comes through youknow, God and Jesus Christ.
As I grew older, and I told youI was a guy on the Sundays who
would check off the box, um, Icame to realize that this is
isn't a one-way street.
(29:01):
I have to work on myrelationship with God through
Jesus.
And the way to do that is cometo church, pick up the Bible,
start studying it, start readingit, and you're gonna start to
find, oh, well, you know, thismakes sense in the Old
Testament, let's go back to theNew Testament and check, oh,
that makes sense, and you startmaking connections and then you
start talking to other people,and they start educating you.
(29:23):
Well, if you think that'sinteresting, read this.
And before you know it, thisbook is is like your guide for
life.
Uh you look and hey, look, thesepeople did this two, three
thousand years ago, and we'restill doing it here today, and
we haven't learned anything fromit.
So we should read it and weshould learn from it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:42):
And like you said, it's a relationship, it's not a
religion.
Uh, I say that frequently,people might get tired of
hearing me say that, but it'slike you said, and that
relationship is something togrow.
So, you know, even kind ofreflecting, you know, you said
kind of over time used to bemore checking boxes, you know,
not in a regretful standpoint,but how.
That would have maybe helped youin earlier to build that
(30:03):
relationship.
And where I'm going isencouraging those, you know, who
may not be there.
SPEAKER_00 (30:08):
There is regret because I wish I had been more
faithful and more into the wordand the Bible 10, 15, 20 years
ago.
Um, you talk about seeing evil.
Maybe I could have directedpeople towards that.
Um, maybe uh one of the things Istruggle with is preaching the
word to someone else.
(30:29):
Um you don't want to take it andtwist it into something that
it's not.
Um but I think as you study moreand you learn more, you become
more confident with it.
Where I in the past I didn'thave that confidence.
SPEAKER_02 (30:41):
And I would say, especially in law enforcement,
you guys worked with a lot ofpeople and the things you see,
if you don't have faith, andthat's really tough.
And I know we hear, you know, Itried to go in the military, my
eyes are too bad.
That's a fun, fun fact.
I was going in the Navy and theydidn't like my eyesight.
So but dealing with, you know,other people, like you see those
things apart from Christ, how doyou deal with those?
(31:04):
So the opportunity to sharethat, you know, you hear a lot
of depression and anddifficulties in in that field.
So I'm sure you could probablycomment on how that would help
and maybe those experiences youhad, like you realized there was
something else going on, newenough, but how your work could
also minister to other people.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
Well, that's just that you have the opportunity to
come into a lot of contact witha lot of people that normally
you won't see.
Um, be it that homeless guy onthe corner, uh the guy who's
going through the drugaddiction, or the girl who's
out, you know, uh on thestreets.
Um you could have the ability togive the word to them and
(31:43):
actually make a huge impact onthem.
I mean, like like I look at itnow, man, if I could just go
back, like how cool would it beto have some of these people uh
six months down the road be achurch getting baptized?
And I missed out on that.
But I'm making it up now, um, ifthat makes any sense.
SPEAKER_02 (32:01):
Yeah, so God has plans and timing, but yeah, we
as Christians, we should have alittle bit of FOMO, not from
doing worldly things, but if wewe want to be part of God's work
in our last episode with uhJelsey, we talked about like
when you live it out in yourwork, you get to see God
working, you get to be a frontfront and center with what God
(32:21):
is doing in lives and be part ofthat.
And so, yeah, if it's when wemiss that opportunity to talk to
someone, you know, God's incontrol, he'll work it out.
But I missed out on the chanceto be used by God.
Not that it would that it would,you know, save me.
I'm already saved, but to sharethat with other people.
So that's good.
But um, so Gary, maybe I knowwe'll we're we're tag teaming,
(32:42):
maybe share kind of yeah, inyour career, you know, ways that
you've seen God work, you know,obviously jujitsu and those
things bringing you here toLifehouse and living out your
faith.
And but maybe just kind of talkabout how you saw you know God
working and and the work thatyou did and in light of your
faith.
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
Yeah, I mean, uh, like Gus was touching on, um,
when we're those of us in lawenforcement, you know, guys and
gals, um, reality is everybodythat we're dealing with, when we
for the most part, we'recrossing paths with them,
they're in the valley.
You know, um, they're notcalling us because they're
sitting on the mountaintopenjoying.
SPEAKER_02 (33:17):
Just come hang out and let's have a picnic or
something.
SPEAKER_01 (33:20):
There's a crisis going on, and and there was uh
because of that, there was a lotof missed opportunity looking
back on my career that we couldhave I could have provided
better guidance other thansaying, you know, here's your
report, we're gonna lock them upand and all that, you know, as
far as keeping everything justyou know by the book, um, and by
(33:42):
the book, the law book, not theBible.
Um, you know, where had I hadGod in my life during my career,
um I a lot of my perspectiveswould have been completely
different.
Um and I fully suspect myinteractions with a lot of
people would have been differentas well.
Um I I would have loved him andbeen able to um share God's
(34:04):
word, you know, when when peoplemaybe needed to hear it.
Um and and you know, so lookingback, you know, I know that and
throughout my career, you know,God was, you know, uh with me um
throughout.
Um I didn't realize it then.
You know, I didn't realize howGod was speaking to me in so
many ways, um, but I was sofocused on the world itself um
(34:28):
that I just didn't wasn'tlistening, you know, and I
wasn't paying attention.
Um that's why, you know, I tryto hit every Wednesday night,
you know, whether it's Biblestudy, whatever it is to help
educate myself on onunderstanding God's word and
then applying it to my life now.
It makes things so much easier.
(34:49):
Uh and and when I put mystruggles in God's hands, I I no
longer have the you know uh thestruggle.
You know, I'm like you know, ifthis is meant to be, you know,
it'll be.
And if it's you know, if this iswhat God wants, God'll make it
happen.
Um so I'm able to kind of justhand that off um and and just do
(35:10):
what I need to do, you know, byjust staying faithful.
Um so you know, I I my careerwould have been different the
way I handled a lot of thingsinternally with work.
Um my personality would havebeen probably more forgiving.
Um in law enforcement there's noroom for mistakes.
There isn't, you know.
Um because if you screw up,someone's gets hurt, um you
(35:35):
know, a victim doesn't get theservices that they should have
got, um, or you know, bad guygets away.
Um and you know, so you don'tgive God enough credit to help
you discern making the rightdecisions and doing the right
things, and and like Gus storyabout just suddenly stopping
before he went into the woods.
(35:57):
I and we were talking aboutbefore this.
We would have given, like if Iwould have rolled up on scene
afterwards and he's yeah, I juststopped, I I'd have given Gus a
hard time.
You know, I I would have bustedhis chops hard on on letting
this guy get away.
I mean, that's just kind of howwe treated each other on the job
is you know, we're rough on eachother um because we demand the
best.
Um and anything less than thatis gonna get uh a ribbing uh to
(36:21):
say that.
Um so uh like I said whenlooking back on on my entire
career, um you know, Goddefinitely was there the whole
time um speaking to me.
Yeah, even when I'm even when Iwas in the valley, not knowing
that what that was, you know,there was a reason I went
through some things um to helpme grow.
(36:42):
And all of that shaped who I wasthat led me here.
And then I think that has mademe so open to learning the word
so much more now because ofrealizing how much God was with
me for so long, um, and stillis, not like it was a part-time
thing.
Um but now that I hear and see,I'm so attuned now to the world
(37:05):
around me, but not looking at itthrough the lens of a worldly
view, but from a godly view.
So now when I hear somebody thatmight be struggling, I'm
realizing, oh, you know what?
God wanted me to hear thatbecause I have the ability to
help that person, you know, or Ican help in that situation, you
know, and and now I'm you knowvery attuned to uh serving
(37:26):
others.
SPEAKER_02 (37:26):
Yeah, and like you say, God has timing and equips
us.
You know, we go through thingsso that we can, you know, warn
others.
Maybe, you know, for me,spending lots of time away from
home and chasing career andthose kind of things.
Now I can tell everybody like,hey, don't do that, don't be who
I was, you know, get this rightearly, and we're able to share
(37:49):
others through the work thatwe've done and the
relationships.
I think, like you said, Gus,reaching so many people, talking
to so many people, especiallyyou know, having that career in
law enforcement, there's a lotof people in the valleys, like
you say.
Like some of us are like, Idon't even know around me is in
the valley.
You guys knew who was in thevalley, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:05):
You know, so but even even to kind of piggyback
on that, it's not even thepeople that you dealt with, it's
your coworkers as well.
You know, he's he's been asupervisor, I've been a
supervisor, and you havesubordinates that probably, like
Gary said, hindsight being 2020,you know, instead of giving him
a tongue lashing, I should havedirected him towards the word.
Or a lot of times, you know,when someone's not ready for a
(38:27):
transfer or promotion, well,maybe it's because God knows
you're not ready for a transferor promotion.
And that's universal, whetheryou're an engineer or a police
officer, firefighter, nurse,whatever.
Um and I wish I had more ofthat, which I'm kind of using
now.
You know, it's like, oh, maybeyou're not getting it because
you're not leading a straightlife, you're not ready for this,
(38:50):
you're not your maturity level'snot there.
There's other factors that God'ssaying maybe you need to, like
you just said, get some reps,get some experience before you
can go to the next level.
SPEAKER_01 (39:00):
Yeah, to jump on that, because I had an
experience um because I'm I'mstill in law enforcement, um,
and so I still uh interact witha lot of people uh in law
enforcement, and I'm fortunatethat even in my Bible study
group, we have you know someguys in there that are
relatively early on still intheir law enforcement career,
and sometimes when we had gettogether for Bible study, we end
(39:22):
up talking about the job, youknow, like there's something
that they're struggling with.
And you know, and I recall onesituation where you know one of
my buddies was strugglingbecause he was there was a
specific assignment he wasreally wanting to get, and uh he
didn't get it, and and he wasstruggling with with
understanding that.
And we talked about wasn't maybeGod could be protecting you too
(39:46):
by not giving you the some ofthe things.
There may be a reason uh thatsomething didn't pan out, you
know.
So, but back in the day, I wouldhave been exactly like he was.
I would have been you know,analyzing everything, where did
I make any mistakes and oh whodid they pick, and you know,
going through all this stuffinstead of looking back and
saying, hey, you know, what'sGod would want me to learn from
(40:08):
here?
Um what you know, God may beprotecting me from something
else, or can opening up a betterdoor.
Uh and down the road, uh, that'swhat turned out.
I mean, it worked out very wellfor the person, but at that
time, it you know, it was thatstruggle.
Um, but like Gus just said, as asupervisor, that would have been
a a much better way to approachsomebody who didn't get the
(40:31):
promotion, who didn't get thetransfer into detectives or
whatever it is that they werelooking at to kind of put it
under that lens versus, youknow, saying, you know,
something else that just wasn'tgodly.
Right.
Um, so so yeah.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (40:46):
So well, I know we could go on for hours.
I know you guys probably got,man, with all the years'
experience, how many stories?
And I'll have to have you backjust for like a war stories.
SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
I'd say we'll have the war story uh podcast.
But definitely editing.
Yeah, yeah, you better put adelay up button on this thing.
SPEAKER_02 (41:06):
Hope to get approval from the AG's office or the
county police, you know, towrite this book, you know, that
you guys need to write with allthe experiences.
But you know, anything thatwould be on your heart to share,
you know, how you approach yourwork.
You guys shared a lot of greatgreat lessons there and how you
view promotions, how you viewdifficulties, how we view you
know the work that we do orserving, just kind of any
(41:28):
closing thoughts from your all'sexperience and and how you might
uh encourage our listenerstoday.
SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
I have a couple.
Um when it comes to serving,yeah, you get to meet other
people with like interests, andyou know, you build
relationships based on that.
But I think for me, especiallylately, like when you when you
when you join a life group,there there are some people here
and we call them prayerwarriors, but they are just when
(41:55):
you have a question that youhave a mentor that you can go to
and ask, hey, I've been feelingthis or I've been thinking about
this, and they can relate you tothe scripture, read the
scripture, pray on it, and thenext thing you know, it's like,
oh, there's my answer.
Uh it it's a it's a fantastic,wonderful thing, and that's one
of the things I love about thischurch.
(42:15):
You know, it it's it's Bibledriven, and if you're looking
for the answers, open the bookand there it'll be.
SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
Absolutely, and getting into community, and
especially like you said, thatcan happen when you serve
because you're gonna find out alot more.
You serve with somebody, youlearn about them, like, hey, we
got to get in here and do thiswork and take care of these
kids, or have the safety team orusher team or whatever your
serving area, you're gonna talkto people, you're gonna meet
people and you'll get to knowthem.
(42:44):
I always said in my officiating,like I didn't really know
somebody until I went and workeda game with them, you know.
So, like you say, being inchurch, you're not really gonna
know people till you serve, getin a group.
And when you do, like itencourages God created us to
walk together.
So I think it's really good, youknow, encouragement to get in,
serve, do work, and you'll meetthe people, you'll strengthen
(43:05):
not only your relationshipvertically with God, but you'll
have those horizontalrelationships that hey, other
people who are willing to workare probably strong believers
who you want to you know betalking to.
Not that, you know, no offense,but Gus from 20 years ago just
sat in a you know chair andyeah, it's true, it's very true.
No offense taken.
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
You know, that's why I say Nate, I I what's this all
about?
And well, start reading this.
Like, ah, thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (43:30):
Awesome.
That's really good.
So yeah, uh the only thing Iwould you know like to piggyback
on is that we can use peoplestill on the safety team, you
know, and 18 and older, one out,you know, we we we can
absolutely use more people.
Um one of my favorite verses,and and I'm still learning my
way through the Bible.
(43:50):
I'm still you know, I read itevery day and I'm still trying
to, so I sometimes I butcher,you know, I get or I'll mix a
few up, but Isaiah 6, 8, Ibelieve it's the one that send
me.
Here I am, send me.
Who will go?
Isaiah says here I am.
Yeah, that's probably one of mymost favorite.
Like if I could get that on ashirt, I think I would have it
on a shirt because uh, you know,it it's it's kind of how I feel
(44:12):
in anything.
If if if there's something I cando to make something better or
to help, send me.
Um I'm I'm in, I'm all in.
Um and so, you know, we whetherit is like you just touched
ushers or any of the other areasof the church, we need people to
you know step up and serve.
I mean, you know, we can use it,even if it's once a month or
once every couple of months, youknow, every little bit helps the
(44:36):
church, helps the body, and andultimately helps Christ.
And um, you know, we're we'reall for that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:41):
God wants your availability.
He doesn't necessarily he cangive you the abilities, but he
wants your availability, beingwilling, like you said, to to
work, just to do whateveropportunity.
And you know, we talked Chelsealast month is starting kids'
ministry, start with a somethingsmall, you'll be amazed what God
can do when you just take thatstep of obedience to just do
(45:03):
some work, to be part of thework God is doing.
And so then I guess in closing,too, the work that we do outside
of a church day to day, youknow, any kind of thoughts on.
I think you guys shared a lot ofgood wisdom on how you can speak
to others, you know, looking foropportunities, but any ways to
look at our work redemptively inChrist and and things you might
(45:23):
share, whether you're in lawenforcement or or otherwise.
SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Well, I mean, there's always also other
volunteer opportunities outthere to do some things if even
outside of church, like uh I'minvolved with Special Olympics
and my wife and I coach there,and that is such a a blessing to
do and and just watch all thoseathletes just come and just
enjoy life.
You know, if if you're everfeeling down about things, hang
(45:53):
out with with some SpecialOlympic athletes and and just
see how they can just makeeverything so much better.
Um, you know, just their outlookon everything.
And um I think we miss a lotwith you know, we get so caught
up in in today's world and andthe and the rat race of of
trying to you know earn thedollar and chase the promotion
(46:13):
and all of those things.
We don't look and see what'sreally important.
And and you know, you get backto you know what it is and and
enjoying life and enjoying thesmall things.
Um, we get focused on the bigthings when we probably should
you know tighten things up alittle bit and and look at
what's really important.
SPEAKER_02 (46:31):
Well, and working in our communities, I think that's
a great point, you know, notjust your nine to five career,
but you know, church is a greatplace to serve, but God calls us
to be part of our community,seek the peace of our city.
So whether it's Special Olympicsor anything out there, you know,
serving opportunities, our dailybread, we do some of that, but
there's other areas you canvolunteer and when you're doing
(46:55):
those things.
Well, why are you doing thesethings?
Well, I'm doing it as workingunto the Lord to serve my
community to better.
Those are great opportunities tobe a witness as well.
SPEAKER_01 (47:04):
And by example, outside of, you know, it's you
know, it's not a like you know,Gus was saying, yeah, I'd come
on Sundays check the box typething.
No, I mean that that doesn't cutit.
You know, yeah, you need to liveit, breathe it, and and be it,
um, and and be out in the world.
And and when people are lookingat you and looking at uh the
happiness you have or thesuccess you have and and
(47:25):
attributing everything to yourrelationship with God, um, you
know, you're you can spread theword even by example.
You know, you don't have to beon this, you know, on the corner
preaching things, if just liveby example.
You know, and do that.
Get out there and let people seeyou and know who you are and and
then know what you're about.
Um so at least for me, that'sthat's the way I do it.
SPEAKER_02 (47:45):
Uh we talk when we work that way, it opens those
opportunities to speak.
Like if you speak but you don'tlive by example, like we've
talked about a little bit thismonth, is if you're the laziest
person in your workplace, that'snot a good witness.
You know, most people are like,ah, well, oh, what you believe?
Yeah, I don't want that becauseyou're a you're lazy and don't
contribute.
But if you, like you say, youare living that out, being an
(48:08):
example in the community in yourworkplace, it's going to lead to
those opportunities of, oh, whyare you different?
What is moving and motivatingyou?
SPEAKER_00 (48:17):
But you t you teed me up really nicely because I
was going to talk about tithing.
And and you you mentioned aboutyou know chasing that dollar.
And at the end of the day, we'rethis materialistic world and
you're chasing that dollar forwhat?
Um, you can take that money andgo to charity.
You know, do you do you have abusiness?
Uh, can you convert some ofthat?
You don't have to be, like yousaid, the person preaching on
(48:37):
the corner.
You don't know how you don'thave to be the person, oh,
here's a check for$10,000.
You know, it if you can give,not time, but through financial
assistance, that works as well.
SPEAKER_02 (48:48):
Um taking us back to we invest, you know, laying up
treasure in heaven, our work isreally about having that
treasure that we give back tothe Lord.
I think that's kind of the pointyou're drawing out there that's
really good as well.
So cool.
Well, guys, I know we could,like I say, we could do our set
of record for our longestepisode talking to you guys, but
(49:09):
I do really appreciate the time.
I know on behalf of the church,appreciate all you guys do.
Uh, usually I was kind of sayingthis month is I know it's kind
of like twisting your arm.
You guys, like you say, wantingto give all the credit to the
rest of the team, which is justexhibit A of good servant
leadership, which Christ callsus to.
But I do appreciate you guyssharing your stories, a little
bit about you for the Life Talkfamily.
(49:31):
Hopefully, if you see Gary andGus, they'll probably be wearing
a green shirt, you know, walkingaround the lobby.
Make sure you let these guys,you know, you appreciate them
and and the whole team, anybodywearing a green shirt, that uh
they are here, you know, just inthe world we live in to keep us
safe.
We trust in the Lord, but hecalls us to uh be vigilant, to
you know, be wise as serpents.
(49:53):
So appreciate that you guysserve so well and just sharing
some of your history and all youguys do here.
So thanks again for taking thetime.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, thanks for having us.
All right, and Life Talk Family,we will see you next time.
Thanks for tuning in to the LifeTalk Podcast.
If this episode encouraged you,please be sure to like, comment,
(50:14):
subscribe, and leave a review soothers can find this content as
well.
And we'll look forward to seeingyou next Monday for another
great episode.
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