December 8, 2025 • 37 mins
Love that never costs you isn’t love at all. We press into agape—the biblical love that acts, gives, and endures—and connect December’s focus to the whole arc of a faithfully different life. From the birth of Jesus to his determined walk toward the cross, we see how God’s love moves first, tells the truth, and changes how we live with family, friends, and even enemies.
We unpack the difference between eros, phileo, storge, and agape, and explain why that clarity matters for modern relationships. Then we get practical: what does “love in deed and truth” look like in a home, a marriage, a church? We talk about praying on the spot, serving without fanfare, and choosing presence over performance. We also wrestle with boundaries and stewardship—helping real needs quickly and generously while refusing to enable destructive patterns. Love isn’t silent when harm is near, and it isn’t harsh when truth must be said.
Along the way, we keep the focus on the Spirit who empowers what the flesh can’t. The Great Command calls for our whole selves; the Spirit supplies the strength. Unity becomes visible when a church greets the stranger, cares for the vulnerable, and speaks truth with humility. In a divided culture, that kind of love becomes a credible witness. If you’ve wondered how to make love more than a slogan—how to move from sentiment to sacrifice—this conversation gives you handles you can use today.
If this resonated, subscribe, share with a friend who needs courage to love well, and leave a review so more people can find the show. Then tell us: what’s one tangible way you’ll practice agape this week?
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Intro music by Joey Blair
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
What's up, Life Talk family?
Welcome back to the Life TalkPodcast.
We are excited to be coming toget to you today for another
great episode getting into themonth of December.
Wow, how did that happen?
SPEAKER_02 (00:26):
Believe it.
I know.
2025 is coming to a close.
It is.
It is unbelievable.
Time flies.
SPEAKER_01 (00:33):
It is.
But a new month means a new andour final this year, faithfully
different themes.
So I'm joined by our leadpastor, Pastor Mark.
How are you doing today?
What's up, Life House?
Yeah, good to have him.
So I think this is, you know,we're keeping score.
You know, we got Cody, Jason,Mitch.
I think this is two or three.
So we'll have to get you get youback on this.
It really is.
(00:53):
Thank you for having me.
Uh, we appreciate you makingsome time for us today.
And so you'll be bringing us theword, or brought us the word, I
guess, at this point, uh, for welove.
And man, it's just been a yearjourneying through a lot of
topics, but maybe you can justkind of share, you know, your
heart and why this is, you know,our final topic as we're
wrapping up the year within.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
Yeah.
I mean, our theme for this yearhas been faithfully different.
Like our heart, our desire,first and foremost, is to be
faithful to our God, who isalways faithful to us.
His steadfast love enduresforever.
He's faithful even when we'refaithless.
He is faithful.
We want to be faithful to him,to serve him in sincerity and in
(01:34):
faithfulness.
And just by nature, if we aregoing to be faithful to the Lord
our God, we are going to bedifferent than the lost and
dying world that we live in.
And so, yeah, we've had and andfocused on uh several different
themes throughout the year, Iguess 11 thus far.
But this is kind of the summarymonth.
Uh, we love is the theme forthis month.
(01:57):
And really, you could say thatthis kind of speaks to all the
themes, you know.
I mean, the reason we invest inthe next generation is because
we love the next generation.
The reason that we go with thegospel is because we love the
world, you know, that God senthis son to die for.
And we want them to know thetruth of the gospel and thereby
(02:18):
be saved.
We love, so we go.
And we could really say thatthat's kind of the motivation
and inspiration behind everyaspect of us living our lives in
faithfulness to our faithfulGod.
And so I'm excited uh this monthspecifically to focus on that.
I mean, uh December, wecelebrate the birth of Christ.
(02:40):
Again, the motivation behind Godsending his son, the motivation
behind Jesus coming, the birthof Christ was love.
Jesus was born to die.
He was born, he came likemotivated by love to do for us
what we could not do forourselves.
Jesus came to die.
He went to Jerusalem.
(03:01):
And this is what inspires me.
You know, I mean, there's averse in the Bible that says, We
love because he first loved us.
Our love is a response to thelove that we have been
confronted with in salvation.
And I'm telling you, and I sayit often, that one of my
favorite uh just when I pictureand and read through the gospels
(03:24):
and so often come across whereit it speaks of Jesus making his
way to Jerusalem, like startingwith his birth, even at
Christmas, when we focus on thatin particular, but just you
know, his face was set likeflint, like knowing exactly what
would happen to him when he gotto Jerusalem, knowing that he
would suffer.
(03:44):
I mean, Ephesians tells us forthe joy set before him, he
endured the cross.
Why?
Because he knew what it wouldaccomplish for us.
Why?
Because he loves us, right?
He loves his sheep.
We are his sheep.
And so, as someone who hasreceived that love, been made
aware of that love, like, man, Ilove him back.
And because I love him, I lovewhat he loves, and I love who he
(04:08):
loves.
And this, in essence, what theBible communicates, Jesus
communicates, and Paul and inthe epistles, we see it all
throughout scripture.
Like, as the people of God, Imean, God is love.
Yep.
We're his people, like we arehis children.
We're to be marked by love.
Like, we are that that's to beour identity.
(04:28):
Like the lost and dying worldshould not be confused about who
we are.
They should see love expressedin tangible ways, right?
Uh, in first John chapter three,we're told to love not just in
word.
It's not a wrong thing toexpress I love you, to say I
love you, or to sing I love you.
(04:48):
We do that every Sunday when wesing songs.
But but what John the Apostlesays is, no, let's love indeed
and in truth and sincerity.
Like actions speak louder thanwords, and we want to impact the
world.
We want to reach the world thatthat God is sending us out into
for his glory and for theadvance and furtherance of his
(05:10):
kingdom.
And our motivation behind all ofit is not fear or the wrath of
God, right?
There's no condemnation forthose who are in Christ Jesus,
but because we love the worldthat God loves, the people that
God loves, we see them.
God has given us eyes to seethem.
We can't not see them, right?
We see them as Jesus in Matthewchapter 9, as harassed and
(05:32):
helpless, a sheep without ashepherd.
And we can't be indifferent towhat we see with the Spirit of
God in us gives us the eyes tosee.
Like we, we, we should becompelled, right?
That the love of Christ compelsus, the love for Christ, the
love we have for Christ compelsus to go, to do, to be faithful.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
Yeah, I think, and great, great point you make, and
I think that'll segue a littlebit.
You said love indeed.
You know, like when you actuallysay I love you, you're kind of
you got to back that up.
You can't just say it and thendo nothing about it.
You can't say I love God, butthen I don't pray or I don't
love his people or I don't readhis word.
(06:15):
You can't tell your husband orwife I love you, but yet we
never go out to dinner or spendany time or do anything
together.
I don't do anything for ourrelationship.
So I think especially sayingthat I love you then almost kind
of writes a check that you gotto cash through.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
Yeah, and actions speak louder than words.
You know, what's the saying?
Talk is cheap.
That's right.
So show me the money, so tospeak, right?
You know, I mean, like reallyput your money where your mouth
is, uh, and where your treasureis, there your heart will be
also like, and so yeah, I mean,I think it is a good thing to
say and to express verbally.
(06:53):
I love you.
I tell my wife, I'm very free todo that.
I love you.
We're a fan.
I know that there are familiesthat are different, and it's not
really part of their culture ortheir personality to kind of
express or say those things.
I I would say, even beyond myfamily, though, I remember uh
kind of a unique experiencehere.
There is a dear couple who uhsenior couple, Larry and Lou
(07:16):
Brakefield, who have sincemoved.
They they went to Georgia, theywent back and moved to their
roots to be with family, and wemissed them desperately and
significantly.
Like they were such a part ofwhat God has done and was doing
here.
Um, but they were in our lifegroup, our connect group, and
they're from the South, right?
(07:37):
The Bible belt.
And I I Larry used to and usedto make me feel uncomfortable.
Like he would say when he wouldleave, or or just love y'all,
you know, and he meant itthough.
Uh and it was really impactfulto me.
And the thing about it is, as aas a pastor, church planting
pastor, early on in Lifehouse'shistory, like I remember feeling
(08:01):
such deep love for the flock,for my brothers and sisters in
Christ, but so intimidated toactually say what I felt,
especially to my brothers.
You know, it's easy to say it tokids and stuff, but yeah, like
Nate, I do.
I love you, man.
I do.
But and it's so easy for me todo, but I would say Larry, as an
example, really just knowing howit impacted me and how much I
(08:24):
appreciated him saying that,really, I remember one day just
deciding, like, I don't care,you know, if if it's awkward,
you know.
I think it is awkward at first,and now it's just so comfortable
for me.
And I do, I say that I I I wasactually kind of chuckling
because uh I'm a regular at theYMCA here in Middletown, and I
love seeing so many people fromour congregation there.
(08:45):
And I know it's probably soweird for the other people
exercising, but when I see mybrothers and sisters in Christ,
they're often I'll say love you,you know, to them.
And I know these people arethinking, well, that dude's
weird.
But we do, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
But I think that brings in a great point of how
we define love, you know,because it feels awkward because
I definitely think in thistheme, our culture, our society,
the English language in general,for those who've been following
our Monday videos, we've beenkind of telegraphing that this
was coming because if we get thedefinition of love wrong, then
(09:19):
that's what can create a lot of,I think, like the fear of
thinking that it's this romanticlove, like, oh, people are gonna
think the wrong things.
And I think one, the Englishlanguage, so maybe you can talk
to some of like the Greek is somuch deeper when it comes to how
to express love.
So maybe you can talk about acouple of those definitions for
those who haven't heard thoseand the Bible are.
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
And it's fascinating, you know, not to
get too nerdy when it comes tothis, but many different words
in the Greek that are translatedwith the word love in the Bible.
So there's Phileo, which isbrotherly love.
It's where we get the word likePhiladelphia, the city of
brotherly love.
I mean, so that's kind ofinteresting.
There's Eros, which is kind ofwhere we get the word erotic,
(10:05):
you know, and so like uh sensuallove.
We make love, Eros love.
Um, there's storge, which iskind of familiar, familiar love,
but then there's agape love, youknow, and that's what we're
talking about when we love.
We're not talking, you know, wesay love, we love pizza, we love
puppies, we love chocolate chipcookies.
We're not talking about thatkind of love.
(10:26):
We are talking about the thelove that Christ demonstrated,
that that God demonstrated thatwhen we were still sinners,
Christ died, Romans 5.8, right?
Sacrificial love, notself-seeking love, uh,
sacrificial love, love that thatacts, right?
(10:47):
And so that's the type of love.
I don't know if that's you wecould get into and just
specifically talk about thenuances of those different
words, but you're right.
We're talking about a veryspecific type of love, a deep
love that demands demonstration,right?
That that cannot stand by whenmade aware of a need.
(11:08):
Like, like seeing a need becauseof agape love, it it's just like
a response, you know, it's it'sactive.
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
And I would even say reflecting on some of those,
like eros is almost like more ofa self-centered love.
Like it's an erotic, like I'mtrying to experience pleasure,
or you know, the romanticism,which again in our society very
common.
And then I would say phileo ismore of a mutual, like we have a
friendship, like you're notgonna phileo somebody who you
(11:38):
know you're you're gonna expectkind of a a relationship there.
Whereas agape is, like you said,a sacrificial love, expecting
nothing in return, just willingto lay down, willing to it's a
truly stuff by definition gives.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Yep.
A love that by definition gives,and even willing in sacrificial
ways.
SPEAKER_01 (12:01):
Yep.
Yeah.
So that's pretty key, I think,for our listeners, and again,
yeah, in 2025, you know, UnitedStates, American culture, like
love.
Like you said, people willsometimes throw it around too
loosely, you know, just lovingpuppies, ice cream, you know,
like, okay, well, what does thatreally mean that you love that?
You know, is what kind ofrelationship, or that it can
(12:23):
just be about feelings, youknow.
Too often, you know, especiallylater this month, we'll have
some great testimonies as far assome parenting and and marriage
as well, but you know, that lovehas to come with, you know,
something of ourselves that weput into it, I would say.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
At the end of the day, it is a love that is
empowered by the Holy Spirit.
I would say that it's a lovethat is not natural to us in its
fullest sense.
You know, I think that we cancomprehend what agape love is
apart from Christ.
I think non-believers cancomprehend what agape love is,
(13:01):
but to the fullest extent, andwhen it is actually experienced,
it is a work of the Spirit ofGod.
It is a divine love.
And uh Yeah, I mean, it'sinteresting.
We are commanded, so the greatcommandment, right?
Uh, and again, remember Jesus,it's King Jesus, it's the Lord
(13:23):
Jesus Christ, and all authorityin heaven and on earth have been
given to him.
He doesn't make suggestions, hegives commands.
And the great commandment islove the Lord your God with all
your heart, with all your soul,with all your mind, with all
your strength.
And the second is like it, loveyour neighbor as yourself.
(13:46):
You know, I mean, this is thegreat commandment, and the
second is like it, andimpossible for us to do in and
of our own selves, in our own inand of our own strength.
And let's just be honest, like,we're not quite there fully.
Like, if we're honest withourselves as I pray, search my
heart, O Lord, like speak to me.
You know, I don't love God withall my the flesh is still in the
(14:10):
mix, like the battle is there inopposition to the spirit that's
leading me in that love.
And I do love God more todaythan I did yesterday.
I'm growing in my capacity tolove.
And in fact, the more Iunderstand and comprehend how
much God loves me, the more Ilove him back.
And so that's a natural thingresponse.
But it is by the spirit.
(14:31):
We're given commands not just tolove God and our neighbors, but
Jesus says that we're to loveour enemies.
Like, what?
Yeah, like how do we do that?
And again, only by the power ofthe Holy Spirit, but it is
possible.
Like with man, it what'simpossible with man is possible
(14:51):
with God.
And he enables us to do that.
You know, we're in Ephesians 5commanded by the Apostle Paul,
ultimately by God through him,to love our wives, husbands,
right?
As Christ loved the church andgave himself up for the church,
like we're to give ourselves, bewilling to lay down our lives
for our wives, and as first uhJohn chapter 3 says, for our
(15:14):
brothers, right?
Like to put our pride, ourdesires aside and even be
willing to die if necessary.
You know, I think of testimoniesthroughout the ages of believers
willing to die.
And I, you know, I'm alightweight.
Um, I I wonder and I pray, ohLord, if I was ever in that
(15:39):
situation, I would have to trustthat you would give me the
strength, the ability to befaithful to you.
I know that I can only befaithful, faithfully different,
by his power and his strength.
Like Jesus says in John 15, 5,apart from me, you can do
nothing.
Right.
Uh Jesus says in John 5, uhduring the Sermon on the Mount,
(16:02):
Blessed are the poor in spirit.
Like by God's grace, I'm I'mpoor.
I know that like I'm bringingnothing to the table except for
my weakness, my need, myinability.
God doesn't want our inab ourability, he wants our
availability.
And so that's what by grace I'msaying.
Like, here I am, like, use me,but help me be faithful.
Like, I want to be able to lovemy enemies because that's what
(16:24):
you want me to do, Lord.
So help me do that.
I want to be able to love mywife.
And he gives me the ability todo that, and not in a way that's
burdensome.
This isn't like pull up mybootstraps and do what I don't
want to do.
This is like, Lord, help me.
And as we obey, like there'sblessing.
God blesses obedience.
There's joy found in obedience.
(16:45):
Like there's I think about youknow, loving indeed, and I the
the principle of pouringyourself out, like like giving
it all, giving love in tangibleways, being generous, uh,
meeting needs, going the extramile in the strength and power
of the Holy Spirit.
Like, you know, when you pouryourselves out, he fills you up.
(17:07):
Like God gives you the abilityand the capacity to love.
That's that's who we are, that'swhat we do.
We're to be marked by love.
I think the world is so confusedtoday about Christians because
we're not what we should be inthis regard.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
The church don't show that love, and that's what
brings that accusations ofintolerance and that being
unloving in so many ways, whichI know we can talk about the
truth and love aspect, but Ithink you know, some things you
said there, especially marriageparenting, are probably uh it
was a great quote going throughone of our marriage studies
recently.
Like, you learn more about thelove of God through marriage and
(17:48):
parenting than you will in acentury in a monastery.
Like you want to experiencingand having to pour out and
sacrifice to lay yourself downfor your wife, for your kids.
Like you can't be a good parentwithout sacrificing, right?
You know, like you just can't.
So that's where you have toactually act out that love.
And then I think, like you said,the filling up as we act out,
(18:10):
then the spirit fills us up.
The feelings, a lot of times wesay, like, well, I'll do it when
I feel like it.
And I think, like you said, evenin those challenging times, are
we ever gonna feel like, youknow, like those sacrificials?
Like, no, our flesh is gonna belike, I don't want to do this.
This is uncomfortable, this ishard, this is painful.
It's love that will drive us tothose actions to live that out.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
I think the spirit will lead us to do that.
That's why we got to keepcrucifying the flesh with its
passions and its desires.
Like we want to walk with thespirit, by the spirit, bearing
the fruits of the spirit, whichare love.
For one, joy, peace, and thelist goes on.
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
And I think that's was it love, faith, and hope.
I think a good thing I heard onetime is of the three of those,
which will be in heaven?
Love.
Yeah, you know, we won't needfaith or hope because we'll be
sighting.
We will see God, we will be inhis presence right there.
So but love will still be there.
And I think also you might speaka little bit.
This is why the Trinity is verycritical doctrine, because you
(19:13):
know, like, well, how does Godeven, you know, how is God love?
How does God know if God is notthree and one?
You know, I think that wassomething that really
strengthened my belief inrelinity.
Yeah.
That God is a relational God.
So he the love that is withinGod, why he can define himself
that way and express himselfthat way, and where that even
comes from.
I don't know if that kind ofspeaks to that of why sometimes
(19:37):
we don't buy in, you know, Iwant to buy in, but people don't
stand on that doctrine as muchas I could.
That's good.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Uh thanks for mentioning that, because I
agree.
And I think that that does giveinsight into the importance of
love.
I mean, even just because it'stied to unity, you know, as a
church, you know, uh we're notjust to love one another, even
though, like in 100.
Chapter 3, like Jesus says, evenin the Gospels, a new
commandment I give you that youlove one another.
(20:07):
Um, this is how you will know mydisciples by your love for one
another.
But because unity and love,agape love in this way, is is
impactful.
It's a witness.
Um, Jesus prayed in John chapter17, the high priestly prayer in
the Garden of Gethsemane, Lord,make Father, make them one,
(20:27):
referring to the church, thedisciples, and those who would
believe as a result of theirgospel ministry, make them one,
as you and I are one.
You know, you know, and so yeah,love facilitates that type of
divine, glorious unity thattestifies to the lost and dying
world that that is a mark thatis easily recognizable and
(20:52):
identifiable as different fromwhat the world has to offer.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
Yep, definitely so.
So I think hopefully everyone'spicking up.
Like the idea of love is, likewe started, so foundational.
Why it is so critical to all ofthe themes we've had in 2025 is
love is what drives the work,the investment, the going, even
our love for God.
Why we pray, because we love Godand we know He first loved us,
(21:19):
why we love His Word, becauseHe's spoken to us like that all
comes from a love of God, a loveof neighbor, like you said, that
that flows out from that.
And I even say this too, like wewe could do whole episodes on
worldview, but kind of like theChristian worldview of you know,
everybody says, Well, how is youknow everything that's wrong
with the world, how will thingschange?
(21:40):
We're in such a dividingsociety.
The only way it's gonna changeis getting that definition of
love and caring, like you said,for our enemies, for those we
disagree with, all of those kindof things is only gonna come,
you know, it can be cliche thatyou know it's through love, you
know, but let's get thedefinition of love right, and
that's why I think as Christianswe have to model that love in in
(22:03):
a very tangible way if if we'regonna be faithfully different,
like you're absolutely yeah, andand I do think that uh the world
may not int interpret our lovingdeeds as loving.
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
You know, I I think about and I say it all the time
here at Lifehouse Church, thatone of the most loving things
that you can do is to speak thetruth when you know the truth.
Yes.
You know, the world tells us,this is being faithfully
different.
The world tells us sit down andshut up, you know, like don't
make it things uncomfortable,like you know, like coexist and
(22:40):
you know, let everyone believewhat they want to believe.
But no, because we know what weknow, because we know that apart
from Christ, men will becondemned, they're condemned
already because we know thatsalvation is only found in the
Lord Jesus Christ.
Like, and we we we can't likestand by and not speak the truth
when we know the truth.
Like it would be unloving to notspeak the truth when we know the
(23:06):
truth.
And so the world may interpretuh our loving acts in
proclaiming the gospel uh andgoing in Jesus' name to the ends
of the earth as unloving, youknow.
But we know in our hearts beforethe Lord, like that's the
motivation, the inspiration forfor going, for doing all the
things, for preaching,proclaiming the gospel, even
when it makes thingsuncomfortable and it shakes
(23:28):
things up.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
I agree.
And yeah, it's I think it was agood thing I heard one time.
The opposite of love is notanger, but it's actually hate.
And really the ultimate form ofhate is indifference.
Yeah, the unwillingness to tellthe truth, to actually be honest
with somebody.
Like, how much do you have tohate somebody to see them
(23:49):
destroy themselves and donothing?
You know, how much do you haveto hate somebody to know the
truth and not tell them?
You know, so like a lot of timespeople are like, Well, I don't
want to tell them they're asinner, or I don't want to, you
know, tell share my faith.
Well, you know, that would be alack of love.
It just would be in those cases.
So, like you said, telling thetruth is the most loving thing
(24:09):
you can do.
Now, you express the truth in aloving way, where not too many
people come at it like with asledgehammer, you know, just I'm
gonna beat you over the headwith truth.
Well, that's not a love, alltruth.
SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
And I think that there are people that like to
argue and they like to just wantto debate, and so they'll preach
the truth and they'll be like,hey, I'm just being a Christian,
I'm being obedient.
I really do think it's importantfor us to search our hearts when
we speak and and how we speak,like and make sure that the
motivation and inspiration forwhat we're saying and how we're
saying it is love.
(24:42):
You know, even you know, to thedown to disciplining our
children, right?
You know, and I know there's allkinds of ideas and philosophies
and theories about the best wayto parent, you know, whether you
should spank or not spank, youknow, and all those different
things.
Ultimately, like how you speakand when you discipline your
child, love should be themotivation behind the actions,
(25:05):
the words, all of it.
You know, and again, kind oftying back to what we talked
about in sharing the gospel, ouryoung child may not interpret
our discipline as loving.
But as parents, we got to know,like, like that that the reason
we're disciplining is because welove our child.
Like we're we love them too muchto leave them the way they are.
(25:25):
We want to train them, toprepare them, to be adults and
to strengthen them and and equipthem.
And that that comes like nopain, no gain, you know, in
essence.
And so we want to make sure thatthat though the motivation
behind what we're doing isloving, despite how they may or
may not, you know, interpret it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
And that's even biblical.
God disciplines those he loves.
You know, like to not disciplineyour child or to not speak the
truth to somebody who you see islike really headed down the
wrong path, is like really on apath of self-destruction.
You you don't love that personif you're not willing.
Now, again, you're not doing itin such a way that it's like you
(26:02):
said, check your heart.
Like, why am I doing this?
Because too often, like you say,some people want to win an
argument or you know, they wantto sound superior, you know, or
put themselves up rather thanhumbly say, you know, and a lot
of times as Christians, we cansay, I used to be where you are.
So I'm telling you the truth.
Like, hey, I've been there, youknow, so I'm sharing the love of
what God has done for me in mylife, sharing that same love
(26:25):
with you.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
So maybe I'm gonna open a can of worms here.
Uh-oh, but you know what?
Somewhat controversial, how muchtime we got here.
So something that comes to mymind is just the I think
misconception.
I think that as a pastor, one ofmy burdens early on, when
presented with so many, not justspiritual needs, but physical
needs.
I mean, we always say when youput people in the mix, you put
(26:48):
problems in the mix.
I mean, just plethors ofproblems.
It's just just it's a reality.
And so oftentimes people say,Well, you're the church, like,
meet my need, love me, likebring it, you know.
And there's kind of thisexpectation, if you will, and an
entitlement, if you will, toreceive from God's loving
(27:10):
people, right?
You know, like you have, I need.
So, you know, give.
And and so I remember feeling soliberated by what Paul writes to
Timothy, and I think it's 1Timothy chapter 5, when he
writes about widows.
Sure.
And so I can picture Timothy,relate to Timothy as a young
(27:31):
pastor at the time, probably inthe same way, all these widows,
and again, in that in that dayand context, widows were
destitute in a way.
You know, they just didn't,women in general didn't have the
opportunities men had.
And then if widows had nohusband to vouch for them, to
protect them, to provide forthem, like they were really in
dire straits.
(27:52):
And so, you know, true religionis this caring for the orphan
and the widow.
People have probably heard thatcommunicated from James.
And so they're like, I'm awidow, like, pay up, like I'm in
need.
But the apostle Paul toldTimothy, really kind of
categorized these widows.
And he said, Listen, if a widowhas a family that can provide
(28:12):
for that widow, in essence, ifthe widow has sons, you know,
and family that can take thatwidow in and provide and protect
for her in the way that herhusband would have otherwise,
like let the family beresponsible for her.
Don't feel like you, as thechurch, have to be responsible
for her.
And then he speaks of widows whoare were self-indulgent.
I think that's the word that heuses specifically, that had, you
(28:35):
know, they could care less aboutGod.
They didn't fear God, they weregoing to do what they wanted to
do, they just wanted more.
And so they're holding theirhands out to church saying true
religion is this, caring for theorphan and the widow, like pay
up.
Paul says, let them beself-indulgent.
Like, don't feel responsible, orlike you have to enable, in
essence, their sinful actions byproviding for them.
SPEAKER_01 (28:54):
Yeah, I think you bring up a great point that we
want to make sure to clarify iseverything we're saying doesn't
mean you get taken advantage of.
SPEAKER_02 (29:01):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
I think that's where you're going with that.
Is like love doesn't mean wejust gotta like anytime we're
presented with a need, like wedon't want to enable.
SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
And in fact, like even there's another category.
Uh, there were widows that wereyoung enough to get married
again.
Like for whatever reason, maybetheir husband died on the job
and they were young enough.
And Paul said, encourage them toget married, you know, to find a
husband that can protect them sothat the church won't
necessarily feel and and beresponsible for them.
(29:30):
So, in essence, if if someonecan help themselves at the end
of the day, that's how Iinterpret that.
Let them encourage them to helpthemselves, like don't
necessarily enable laziness orapathy, you know, like you know,
you know, help them get on theirfeet and help themselves.
But when they're, and Paul says,when they're truly a widow and
(29:52):
in need, that's when you shouldhelp them and feel the
obligation and responsibility tohelp them.
And we should, as lovingbrothers and sisters, as people
of God who have received thegrace and provisions of God, if
we have the ability to helppeople, we should feel the
responsibility to do so.
Not in a way, though, thatenables sin and sinfulness, I
(30:14):
would say.
So it's not just like thislegalistic statement Christians
should not feel theresponsibility to in every
circumstance you know, give.
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
And I think that's yeah, like spiritual needs
versus physical needs, too.
Like we should always be lovingspiritually.
I think the unity youcommunicated, speaking truth to
people about spiritual needs.
Then when it comes to physicalneeds, that's a tangible way
that we express love, but toyour point, we're not called to
be taken advantage of.
We're not called to, you know,well, we're called to be good
(30:48):
stewards.
SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
Exactly.
I mean, of the resources thatGod has entrusted us with.
And it's not necessarily being agood steward of those resources
if you're enabling sin andsinfulness.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
You know, but that that love maybe look like
helping them find work, helpingthem train, you know, not just
giving them a fish, right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Teaching them to fish, in essence, rather than
giving them a fish.
Absolutely.
But at the end of the day,again, so so guard against the
legalistic thoughts.
Uh whether you feel themyourself or people come at you
with them.
But at the end of the day, like,yeah, be loving.
And when in doubt, do it, Iwould say.
Like, er on the side of love,you know, and pray about it.
(31:27):
Grace.
Like we've been, we've receivedgrace.
So let's show grace to people.
We who have received mercy,let's show mercy.
Like uh Jesus commanded that,expects that, right?
Um, so that's all tied toloving.
If we if we don't have love,right first Corinthians 13.
(31:48):
All we are is a noisy gong and aclanging cymbal.
God forbid that that would beus.
Yep.
You know, we want to be a sweetsound to the Lord's ears as we
sing but as we act, a fragrantaroma to him.
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
And I think as we kind of bring it to a close, we
could talk love.
Oh, we could go on and on, man.
Like you say, we could relate itback to every single month we've
been through, but hopefully forthe Life Talk family, getting
the idea, and I thinkappropriate, you know, wrapping
up both foundationally as wellas heading into the Christmas
season, you know, the gift ofGod's son that love involves
(32:24):
giving, sacrifice that we'vetalked about, you know, just in
so many ways.
But as a church, you know, whenpeople come in on a Sunday
morning or or interact, youknow, what would they say?
Would they say that was a lovingchurch or not?
You know, do they feel that loveand that comes from going out of
your way to greet somebody youdon't know or you know, talk to
(32:44):
somebody or or make effortrather than just come in and you
know, if we're all just kind ofin our own little bubble, that's
not a loving congregation thatpeople are going to experience.
So if we want people toexperience the love of Christ,
that should be something thatmarks us really all the time,
but especially like Sundaymornings in our gatherings as a
church body, there should bethat difference that is tangibly
(33:06):
expressed.
And and you'll feel it, right?
Like you'll kind of feel thatwhenever you go.
You know, if it's a hot churchor a cold church or a lukewarm
church, like it's really gonnacome to that level of how is
that love of God playing outamongst us?
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
Absolutely.
And just I I know we have toclose, and I'm really I'll be
honest, I'm frustrated that wehave to close because there's so
much to be said.
But one more thought that justkind of came to me as you were
speaking is um love does justnot love does not merely
respond.
You know, when we see a need, werespond.
(33:42):
Absolutely we should.
Sure.
But I would say love pursuesproactive.
Proactive.
Like let's be on mission lookingfor needs.
Not just like if I mean there'stimes when because you know I'm
I'm a slow learner, the Lordjust like literally knocks me
upside the head or putssomething right in my face
because I'm like, I didn't seeit, you know.
(34:03):
But we should actually belooking, seeking for
opportunities to give, seekingopportunities to be generous,
seeking opportunities to pray,seeking opportunities to go,
like with our eyes open,looking, you know, being aware
of we live in a you don't haveto look far.
(34:24):
That's true, but actually look,seek, you know, and you will
find.
I I believe it, you know.
But but so just just the idea isdon't just sit merely respond
when given an opportunity, dobut I would charge beyond that
to actually pursueopportunities, be a blessing.
(34:46):
You who have been blessed, be ablessing to someone.
Like pray, Lord, who can I be ablessing to?
That's right.
That's a prayer that God willanswer.
I have no doubt.
He will show you who you can bea blessing to.
And it may not necessarily befinancially, it may be just do
writing a card, it may be justgiving someone a hug, sitting
(35:06):
beside them, speaking to them,sharing truth with them.
I mean, we could go, there'sjust so many different ways you
can do that.
It's not just we're not justtalking about giving
financially, meeting financialneeds, but practical needs.
SPEAKER_01 (35:20):
Uh give time, give attention.
You know, even like you say, wecould go on, but like whether
it's parenting or you know,marriage, like it ain't about
buying them stuff, it's aboutgiving them your time.
Too many families, parents arelike, I just they have
everything they want, but theydon't get my time.
So, like you say, there's somany different expressions that
need to be considered, and youcan show love in a lot of
(35:43):
different ways.
Again, I think like you'resaying, that's we have kind of a
materialistic society, sosometimes that's again, we get
that definition law wrong thatit has to be some kind of
monetary or material thing, butthat's also not true, which
again we could dive way intoeven more.
And and we will in some of ourupcoming episodes this month of
expressions of love that are notjust related to giving uh true
(36:07):
love praise.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (36:08):
You know, I mean you can't, if you love people, not
pray for them, you know, knowingthat prayer is profitable.
That's right.
We're saying I'll pray for youand not pray.
SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
Let's pray right now.
You know, that's true.
Love praise.
Can I get an amen?
Amen to that.
But well, Life Talk family,thanks for joining us.
Pastor Mark always appreciatesyour time, and we look uh
forward to journeying thismonth.
Thanks for your message on WeLove and and just I think this
year's been a blessing.
So we look forward to wrappingit up this month.
Amen.
(36:37):
All right, thanks, uh Life Talkfamily for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
Thanks for tuning in to the LifeTalk Podcast.
If this episode encouraged you,please be sure to like, comment,
subscribe, and leave a review soothers can find this content as
well.
And we'll look forward to seeingyou next Monday for another
great episode.
What's up, Life Talk family?
Welcome back to the Life TalkPodcast.
We are excited to be coming toget to you today for another
great episode getting into themonth of December.
Wow, how did that happen?
SPEAKER_02 (00:26):
Believe it.
I know.
2025 is coming to a close.
It is.
It is unbelievable.
Time flies.
SPEAKER_01 (00:33):
It is.
But a new month means a new andour final this year, faithfully
different themes.
So I'm joined by our leadpastor, Pastor Mark.
How are you doing today?
What's up, Life House?
Yeah, good to have him.
So I think this is, you know,we're keeping score.
You know, we got Cody, Jason,Mitch.
I think this is two or three.
So we'll have to get you get youback on this.
It really is.
(00:53):
Thank you for having me.
Uh, we appreciate you makingsome time for us today.
And so you'll be bringing us theword, or brought us the word, I
guess, at this point, uh, for welove.
And man, it's just been a yearjourneying through a lot of
topics, but maybe you can justkind of share, you know, your
heart and why this is, you know,our final topic as we're
wrapping up the year within.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
Yeah.
I mean, our theme for this yearhas been faithfully different.
Like our heart, our desire,first and foremost, is to be
faithful to our God, who isalways faithful to us.
His steadfast love enduresforever.
He's faithful even when we'refaithless.
He is faithful.
We want to be faithful to him,to serve him in sincerity and in
(01:34):
faithfulness.
And just by nature, if we aregoing to be faithful to the Lord
our God, we are going to bedifferent than the lost and
dying world that we live in.
And so, yeah, we've had and andfocused on uh several different
themes throughout the year, Iguess 11 thus far.
But this is kind of the summarymonth.
Uh, we love is the theme forthis month.
(01:57):
And really, you could say thatthis kind of speaks to all the
themes, you know.
I mean, the reason we invest inthe next generation is because
we love the next generation.
The reason that we go with thegospel is because we love the
world, you know, that God senthis son to die for.
And we want them to know thetruth of the gospel and thereby
(02:18):
be saved.
We love, so we go.
And we could really say thatthat's kind of the motivation
and inspiration behind everyaspect of us living our lives in
faithfulness to our faithfulGod.
And so I'm excited uh this monthspecifically to focus on that.
I mean, uh December, wecelebrate the birth of Christ.
(02:40):
Again, the motivation behind Godsending his son, the motivation
behind Jesus coming, the birthof Christ was love.
Jesus was born to die.
He was born, he came likemotivated by love to do for us
what we could not do forourselves.
Jesus came to die.
He went to Jerusalem.
(03:01):
And this is what inspires me.
You know, I mean, there's averse in the Bible that says, We
love because he first loved us.
Our love is a response to thelove that we have been
confronted with in salvation.
And I'm telling you, and I sayit often, that one of my
favorite uh just when I pictureand and read through the gospels
(03:24):
and so often come across whereit it speaks of Jesus making his
way to Jerusalem, like startingwith his birth, even at
Christmas, when we focus on thatin particular, but just you
know, his face was set likeflint, like knowing exactly what
would happen to him when he gotto Jerusalem, knowing that he
would suffer.
(03:44):
I mean, Ephesians tells us forthe joy set before him, he
endured the cross.
Why?
Because he knew what it wouldaccomplish for us.
Why?
Because he loves us, right?
He loves his sheep.
We are his sheep.
And so, as someone who hasreceived that love, been made
aware of that love, like, man, Ilove him back.
And because I love him, I lovewhat he loves, and I love who he
(04:08):
loves.
And this, in essence, what theBible communicates, Jesus
communicates, and Paul and inthe epistles, we see it all
throughout scripture.
Like, as the people of God, Imean, God is love.
Yep.
We're his people, like we arehis children.
We're to be marked by love.
Like, we are that that's to beour identity.
(04:28):
Like the lost and dying worldshould not be confused about who
we are.
They should see love expressedin tangible ways, right?
Uh, in first John chapter three,we're told to love not just in
word.
It's not a wrong thing toexpress I love you, to say I
love you, or to sing I love you.
(04:48):
We do that every Sunday when wesing songs.
But but what John the Apostlesays is, no, let's love indeed
and in truth and sincerity.
Like actions speak louder thanwords, and we want to impact the
world.
We want to reach the world thatthat God is sending us out into
for his glory and for theadvance and furtherance of his
(05:10):
kingdom.
And our motivation behind all ofit is not fear or the wrath of
God, right?
There's no condemnation forthose who are in Christ Jesus,
but because we love the worldthat God loves, the people that
God loves, we see them.
God has given us eyes to seethem.
We can't not see them, right?
We see them as Jesus in Matthewchapter 9, as harassed and
(05:32):
helpless, a sheep without ashepherd.
And we can't be indifferent towhat we see with the Spirit of
God in us gives us the eyes tosee.
Like we, we, we should becompelled, right?
That the love of Christ compelsus, the love for Christ, the
love we have for Christ compelsus to go, to do, to be faithful.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
Yeah, I think, and great, great point you make, and
I think that'll segue a littlebit.
You said love indeed.
You know, like when you actuallysay I love you, you're kind of
you got to back that up.
You can't just say it and thendo nothing about it.
You can't say I love God, butthen I don't pray or I don't
love his people or I don't readhis word.
(06:15):
You can't tell your husband orwife I love you, but yet we
never go out to dinner or spendany time or do anything
together.
I don't do anything for ourrelationship.
So I think especially sayingthat I love you then almost kind
of writes a check that you gotto cash through.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
Yeah, and actions speak louder than words.
You know, what's the saying?
Talk is cheap.
That's right.
So show me the money, so tospeak, right?
You know, I mean, like reallyput your money where your mouth
is, uh, and where your treasureis, there your heart will be
also like, and so yeah, I mean,I think it is a good thing to
say and to express verbally.
(06:53):
I love you.
I tell my wife, I'm very free todo that.
I love you.
We're a fan.
I know that there are familiesthat are different, and it's not
really part of their culture ortheir personality to kind of
express or say those things.
I I would say, even beyond myfamily, though, I remember uh
kind of a unique experiencehere.
There is a dear couple who uhsenior couple, Larry and Lou
(07:16):
Brakefield, who have sincemoved.
They they went to Georgia, theywent back and moved to their
roots to be with family, and wemissed them desperately and
significantly.
Like they were such a part ofwhat God has done and was doing
here.
Um, but they were in our lifegroup, our connect group, and
they're from the South, right?
(07:37):
The Bible belt.
And I I Larry used to and usedto make me feel uncomfortable.
Like he would say when he wouldleave, or or just love y'all,
you know, and he meant itthough.
Uh and it was really impactfulto me.
And the thing about it is, as aas a pastor, church planting
pastor, early on in Lifehouse'shistory, like I remember feeling
(08:01):
such deep love for the flock,for my brothers and sisters in
Christ, but so intimidated toactually say what I felt,
especially to my brothers.
You know, it's easy to say it tokids and stuff, but yeah, like
Nate, I do.
I love you, man.
I do.
But and it's so easy for me todo, but I would say Larry, as an
example, really just knowing howit impacted me and how much I
(08:24):
appreciated him saying that,really, I remember one day just
deciding, like, I don't care,you know, if if it's awkward,
you know.
I think it is awkward at first,and now it's just so comfortable
for me.
And I do, I say that I I I wasactually kind of chuckling
because uh I'm a regular at theYMCA here in Middletown, and I
love seeing so many people fromour congregation there.
(08:45):
And I know it's probably soweird for the other people
exercising, but when I see mybrothers and sisters in Christ,
they're often I'll say love you,you know, to them.
And I know these people arethinking, well, that dude's
weird.
But we do, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
But I think that brings in a great point of how
we define love, you know,because it feels awkward because
I definitely think in thistheme, our culture, our society,
the English language in general,for those who've been following
our Monday videos, we've beenkind of telegraphing that this
was coming because if we get thedefinition of love wrong, then
(09:19):
that's what can create a lot of,I think, like the fear of
thinking that it's this romanticlove, like, oh, people are gonna
think the wrong things.
And I think one, the Englishlanguage, so maybe you can talk
to some of like the Greek is somuch deeper when it comes to how
to express love.
So maybe you can talk about acouple of those definitions for
those who haven't heard thoseand the Bible are.
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
And it's fascinating, you know, not to
get too nerdy when it comes tothis, but many different words
in the Greek that are translatedwith the word love in the Bible.
So there's Phileo, which isbrotherly love.
It's where we get the word likePhiladelphia, the city of
brotherly love.
I mean, so that's kind ofinteresting.
There's Eros, which is kind ofwhere we get the word erotic,
(10:05):
you know, and so like uh sensuallove.
We make love, Eros love.
Um, there's storge, which iskind of familiar, familiar love,
but then there's agape love, youknow, and that's what we're
talking about when we love.
We're not talking, you know, wesay love, we love pizza, we love
puppies, we love chocolate chipcookies.
We're not talking about thatkind of love.
(10:26):
We are talking about the thelove that Christ demonstrated,
that that God demonstrated thatwhen we were still sinners,
Christ died, Romans 5.8, right?
Sacrificial love, notself-seeking love, uh,
sacrificial love, love that thatacts, right?
(10:47):
And so that's the type of love.
I don't know if that's you wecould get into and just
specifically talk about thenuances of those different
words, but you're right.
We're talking about a veryspecific type of love, a deep
love that demands demonstration,right?
That that cannot stand by whenmade aware of a need.
(11:08):
Like, like seeing a need becauseof agape love, it it's just like
a response, you know, it's it'sactive.
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
And I would even say reflecting on some of those,
like eros is almost like more ofa self-centered love.
Like it's an erotic, like I'mtrying to experience pleasure,
or you know, the romanticism,which again in our society very
common.
And then I would say phileo ismore of a mutual, like we have a
friendship, like you're notgonna phileo somebody who you
(11:38):
know you're you're gonna expectkind of a a relationship there.
Whereas agape is, like you said,a sacrificial love, expecting
nothing in return, just willingto lay down, willing to it's a
truly stuff by definition gives.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Yep.
A love that by definition gives,and even willing in sacrificial
ways.
SPEAKER_01 (12:01):
Yep.
Yeah.
So that's pretty key, I think,for our listeners, and again,
yeah, in 2025, you know, UnitedStates, American culture, like
love.
Like you said, people willsometimes throw it around too
loosely, you know, just lovingpuppies, ice cream, you know,
like, okay, well, what does thatreally mean that you love that?
You know, is what kind ofrelationship, or that it can
(12:23):
just be about feelings, youknow.
Too often, you know, especiallylater this month, we'll have
some great testimonies as far assome parenting and and marriage
as well, but you know, that lovehas to come with, you know,
something of ourselves that weput into it, I would say.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
At the end of the day, it is a love that is
empowered by the Holy Spirit.
I would say that it's a lovethat is not natural to us in its
fullest sense.
You know, I think that we cancomprehend what agape love is
apart from Christ.
I think non-believers cancomprehend what agape love is,
(13:01):
but to the fullest extent, andwhen it is actually experienced,
it is a work of the Spirit ofGod.
It is a divine love.
And uh Yeah, I mean, it'sinteresting.
We are commanded, so the greatcommandment, right?
Uh, and again, remember Jesus,it's King Jesus, it's the Lord
(13:23):
Jesus Christ, and all authorityin heaven and on earth have been
given to him.
He doesn't make suggestions, hegives commands.
And the great commandment islove the Lord your God with all
your heart, with all your soul,with all your mind, with all
your strength.
And the second is like it, loveyour neighbor as yourself.
(13:46):
You know, I mean, this is thegreat commandment, and the
second is like it, andimpossible for us to do in and
of our own selves, in our own inand of our own strength.
And let's just be honest, like,we're not quite there fully.
Like, if we're honest withourselves as I pray, search my
heart, O Lord, like speak to me.
You know, I don't love God withall my the flesh is still in the
(14:10):
mix, like the battle is there inopposition to the spirit that's
leading me in that love.
And I do love God more todaythan I did yesterday.
I'm growing in my capacity tolove.
And in fact, the more Iunderstand and comprehend how
much God loves me, the more Ilove him back.
And so that's a natural thingresponse.
But it is by the spirit.
(14:31):
We're given commands not just tolove God and our neighbors, but
Jesus says that we're to loveour enemies.
Like, what?
Yeah, like how do we do that?
And again, only by the power ofthe Holy Spirit, but it is
possible.
Like with man, it what'simpossible with man is possible
(14:51):
with God.
And he enables us to do that.
You know, we're in Ephesians 5commanded by the Apostle Paul,
ultimately by God through him,to love our wives, husbands,
right?
As Christ loved the church andgave himself up for the church,
like we're to give ourselves, bewilling to lay down our lives
for our wives, and as first uhJohn chapter 3 says, for our
(15:14):
brothers, right?
Like to put our pride, ourdesires aside and even be
willing to die if necessary.
You know, I think of testimoniesthroughout the ages of believers
willing to die.
And I, you know, I'm alightweight.
Um, I I wonder and I pray, ohLord, if I was ever in that
(15:39):
situation, I would have to trustthat you would give me the
strength, the ability to befaithful to you.
I know that I can only befaithful, faithfully different,
by his power and his strength.
Like Jesus says in John 15, 5,apart from me, you can do
nothing.
Right.
Uh Jesus says in John 5, uhduring the Sermon on the Mount,
(16:02):
Blessed are the poor in spirit.
Like by God's grace, I'm I'mpoor.
I know that like I'm bringingnothing to the table except for
my weakness, my need, myinability.
God doesn't want our inab ourability, he wants our
availability.
And so that's what by grace I'msaying.
Like, here I am, like, use me,but help me be faithful.
Like, I want to be able to lovemy enemies because that's what
(16:24):
you want me to do, Lord.
So help me do that.
I want to be able to love mywife.
And he gives me the ability todo that, and not in a way that's
burdensome.
This isn't like pull up mybootstraps and do what I don't
want to do.
This is like, Lord, help me.
And as we obey, like there'sblessing.
God blesses obedience.
There's joy found in obedience.
(16:45):
Like there's I think about youknow, loving indeed, and I the
the principle of pouringyourself out, like like giving
it all, giving love in tangibleways, being generous, uh,
meeting needs, going the extramile in the strength and power
of the Holy Spirit.
Like, you know, when you pouryourselves out, he fills you up.
(17:07):
Like God gives you the abilityand the capacity to love.
That's that's who we are, that'swhat we do.
We're to be marked by love.
I think the world is so confusedtoday about Christians because
we're not what we should be inthis regard.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
The church don't show that love, and that's what
brings that accusations ofintolerance and that being
unloving in so many ways, whichI know we can talk about the
truth and love aspect, but Ithink you know, some things you
said there, especially marriageparenting, are probably uh it
was a great quote going throughone of our marriage studies
recently.
Like, you learn more about thelove of God through marriage and
(17:48):
parenting than you will in acentury in a monastery.
Like you want to experiencingand having to pour out and
sacrifice to lay yourself downfor your wife, for your kids.
Like you can't be a good parentwithout sacrificing, right?
You know, like you just can't.
So that's where you have toactually act out that love.
And then I think, like you said,the filling up as we act out,
(18:10):
then the spirit fills us up.
The feelings, a lot of times wesay, like, well, I'll do it when
I feel like it.
And I think, like you said, evenin those challenging times, are
we ever gonna feel like, youknow, like those sacrificials?
Like, no, our flesh is gonna belike, I don't want to do this.
This is uncomfortable, this ishard, this is painful.
It's love that will drive us tothose actions to live that out.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
I think the spirit will lead us to do that.
That's why we got to keepcrucifying the flesh with its
passions and its desires.
Like we want to walk with thespirit, by the spirit, bearing
the fruits of the spirit, whichare love.
For one, joy, peace, and thelist goes on.
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
And I think that's was it love, faith, and hope.
I think a good thing I heard onetime is of the three of those,
which will be in heaven?
Love.
Yeah, you know, we won't needfaith or hope because we'll be
sighting.
We will see God, we will be inhis presence right there.
So but love will still be there.
And I think also you might speaka little bit.
This is why the Trinity is verycritical doctrine, because you
(19:13):
know, like, well, how does Godeven, you know, how is God love?
How does God know if God is notthree and one?
You know, I think that wassomething that really
strengthened my belief inrelinity.
Yeah.
That God is a relational God.
So he the love that is withinGod, why he can define himself
that way and express himselfthat way, and where that even
comes from.
I don't know if that kind ofspeaks to that of why sometimes
(19:37):
we don't buy in, you know, Iwant to buy in, but people don't
stand on that doctrine as muchas I could.
That's good.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Uh thanks for mentioning that, because I
agree.
And I think that that does giveinsight into the importance of
love.
I mean, even just because it'stied to unity, you know, as a
church, you know, uh we're notjust to love one another, even
though, like in 100.
Chapter 3, like Jesus says, evenin the Gospels, a new
commandment I give you that youlove one another.
(20:07):
Um, this is how you will know mydisciples by your love for one
another.
But because unity and love,agape love in this way, is is
impactful.
It's a witness.
Um, Jesus prayed in John chapter17, the high priestly prayer in
the Garden of Gethsemane, Lord,make Father, make them one,
(20:27):
referring to the church, thedisciples, and those who would
believe as a result of theirgospel ministry, make them one,
as you and I are one.
You know, you know, and so yeah,love facilitates that type of
divine, glorious unity thattestifies to the lost and dying
world that that is a mark thatis easily recognizable and
(20:52):
identifiable as different fromwhat the world has to offer.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
Yep, definitely so.
So I think hopefully everyone'spicking up.
Like the idea of love is, likewe started, so foundational.
Why it is so critical to all ofthe themes we've had in 2025 is
love is what drives the work,the investment, the going, even
our love for God.
Why we pray, because we love Godand we know He first loved us,
(21:19):
why we love His Word, becauseHe's spoken to us like that all
comes from a love of God, a loveof neighbor, like you said, that
that flows out from that.
And I even say this too, like wewe could do whole episodes on
worldview, but kind of like theChristian worldview of you know,
everybody says, Well, how is youknow everything that's wrong
with the world, how will thingschange?
(21:40):
We're in such a dividingsociety.
The only way it's gonna changeis getting that definition of
love and caring, like you said,for our enemies, for those we
disagree with, all of those kindof things is only gonna come,
you know, it can be cliche thatyou know it's through love, you
know, but let's get thedefinition of love right, and
that's why I think as Christianswe have to model that love in in
(22:03):
a very tangible way if if we'regonna be faithfully different,
like you're absolutely yeah, andand I do think that uh the world
may not int interpret our lovingdeeds as loving.
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
You know, I I think about and I say it all the time
here at Lifehouse Church, thatone of the most loving things
that you can do is to speak thetruth when you know the truth.
Yes.
You know, the world tells us,this is being faithfully
different.
The world tells us sit down andshut up, you know, like don't
make it things uncomfortable,like you know, like coexist and
(22:40):
you know, let everyone believewhat they want to believe.
But no, because we know what weknow, because we know that apart
from Christ, men will becondemned, they're condemned
already because we know thatsalvation is only found in the
Lord Jesus Christ.
Like, and we we we can't likestand by and not speak the truth
when we know the truth.
Like it would be unloving to notspeak the truth when we know the
(23:06):
truth.
And so the world may interpretuh our loving acts in
proclaiming the gospel uh andgoing in Jesus' name to the ends
of the earth as unloving, youknow.
But we know in our hearts beforethe Lord, like that's the
motivation, the inspiration forfor going, for doing all the
things, for preaching,proclaiming the gospel, even
when it makes thingsuncomfortable and it shakes
(23:28):
things up.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
I agree.
And yeah, it's I think it was agood thing I heard one time.
The opposite of love is notanger, but it's actually hate.
And really the ultimate form ofhate is indifference.
Yeah, the unwillingness to tellthe truth, to actually be honest
with somebody.
Like, how much do you have tohate somebody to see them
(23:49):
destroy themselves and donothing?
You know, how much do you haveto hate somebody to know the
truth and not tell them?
You know, so like a lot of timespeople are like, Well, I don't
want to tell them they're asinner, or I don't want to, you
know, tell share my faith.
Well, you know, that would be alack of love.
It just would be in those cases.
So, like you said, telling thetruth is the most loving thing
(24:09):
you can do.
Now, you express the truth in aloving way, where not too many
people come at it like with asledgehammer, you know, just I'm
gonna beat you over the headwith truth.
Well, that's not a love, alltruth.
SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
And I think that there are people that like to
argue and they like to just wantto debate, and so they'll preach
the truth and they'll be like,hey, I'm just being a Christian,
I'm being obedient.
I really do think it's importantfor us to search our hearts when
we speak and and how we speak,like and make sure that the
motivation and inspiration forwhat we're saying and how we're
saying it is love.
(24:42):
You know, even you know, to thedown to disciplining our
children, right?
You know, and I know there's allkinds of ideas and philosophies
and theories about the best wayto parent, you know, whether you
should spank or not spank, youknow, and all those different
things.
Ultimately, like how you speakand when you discipline your
child, love should be themotivation behind the actions,
(25:05):
the words, all of it.
You know, and again, kind oftying back to what we talked
about in sharing the gospel, ouryoung child may not interpret
our discipline as loving.
But as parents, we got to know,like, like that that the reason
we're disciplining is because welove our child.
Like we're we love them too muchto leave them the way they are.
(25:25):
We want to train them, toprepare them, to be adults and
to strengthen them and and equipthem.
And that that comes like nopain, no gain, you know, in
essence.
And so we want to make sure thatthat though the motivation
behind what we're doing isloving, despite how they may or
may not, you know, interpret it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
And that's even biblical.
God disciplines those he loves.
You know, like to not disciplineyour child or to not speak the
truth to somebody who you see islike really headed down the
wrong path, is like really on apath of self-destruction.
You you don't love that personif you're not willing.
Now, again, you're not doing itin such a way that it's like you
(26:02):
said, check your heart.
Like, why am I doing this?
Because too often, like you say,some people want to win an
argument or you know, they wantto sound superior, you know, or
put themselves up rather thanhumbly say, you know, and a lot
of times as Christians, we cansay, I used to be where you are.
So I'm telling you the truth.
Like, hey, I've been there, youknow, so I'm sharing the love of
what God has done for me in mylife, sharing that same love
(26:25):
with you.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
So maybe I'm gonna open a can of worms here.
Uh-oh, but you know what?
Somewhat controversial, how muchtime we got here.
So something that comes to mymind is just the I think
misconception.
I think that as a pastor, one ofmy burdens early on, when
presented with so many, not justspiritual needs, but physical
needs.
I mean, we always say when youput people in the mix, you put
(26:48):
problems in the mix.
I mean, just plethors ofproblems.
It's just just it's a reality.
And so oftentimes people say,Well, you're the church, like,
meet my need, love me, likebring it, you know.
And there's kind of thisexpectation, if you will, and an
entitlement, if you will, toreceive from God's loving
(27:10):
people, right?
You know, like you have, I need.
So, you know, give.
And and so I remember feeling soliberated by what Paul writes to
Timothy, and I think it's 1Timothy chapter 5, when he
writes about widows.
Sure.
And so I can picture Timothy,relate to Timothy as a young
(27:31):
pastor at the time, probably inthe same way, all these widows,
and again, in that in that dayand context, widows were
destitute in a way.
You know, they just didn't,women in general didn't have the
opportunities men had.
And then if widows had nohusband to vouch for them, to
protect them, to provide forthem, like they were really in
dire straits.
(27:52):
And so, you know, true religionis this caring for the orphan
and the widow.
People have probably heard thatcommunicated from James.
And so they're like, I'm awidow, like, pay up, like I'm in
need.
But the apostle Paul toldTimothy, really kind of
categorized these widows.
And he said, Listen, if a widowhas a family that can provide
(28:12):
for that widow, in essence, ifthe widow has sons, you know,
and family that can take thatwidow in and provide and protect
for her in the way that herhusband would have otherwise,
like let the family beresponsible for her.
Don't feel like you, as thechurch, have to be responsible
for her.
And then he speaks of widows whoare were self-indulgent.
I think that's the word that heuses specifically, that had, you
(28:35):
know, they could care less aboutGod.
They didn't fear God, they weregoing to do what they wanted to
do, they just wanted more.
And so they're holding theirhands out to church saying true
religion is this, caring for theorphan and the widow, like pay
up.
Paul says, let them beself-indulgent.
Like, don't feel responsible, orlike you have to enable, in
essence, their sinful actions byproviding for them.
SPEAKER_01 (28:54):
Yeah, I think you bring up a great point that we
want to make sure to clarify iseverything we're saying doesn't
mean you get taken advantage of.
SPEAKER_02 (29:01):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
I think that's where you're going with that.
Is like love doesn't mean wejust gotta like anytime we're
presented with a need, like wedon't want to enable.
SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
And in fact, like even there's another category.
Uh, there were widows that wereyoung enough to get married
again.
Like for whatever reason, maybetheir husband died on the job
and they were young enough.
And Paul said, encourage them toget married, you know, to find a
husband that can protect them sothat the church won't
necessarily feel and and beresponsible for them.
(29:30):
So, in essence, if if someonecan help themselves at the end
of the day, that's how Iinterpret that.
Let them encourage them to helpthemselves, like don't
necessarily enable laziness orapathy, you know, like you know,
you know, help them get on theirfeet and help themselves.
But when they're, and Paul says,when they're truly a widow and
(29:52):
in need, that's when you shouldhelp them and feel the
obligation and responsibility tohelp them.
And we should, as lovingbrothers and sisters, as people
of God who have received thegrace and provisions of God, if
we have the ability to helppeople, we should feel the
responsibility to do so.
Not in a way, though, thatenables sin and sinfulness, I
(30:14):
would say.
So it's not just like thislegalistic statement Christians
should not feel theresponsibility to in every
circumstance you know, give.
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
And I think that's yeah, like spiritual needs
versus physical needs, too.
Like we should always be lovingspiritually.
I think the unity youcommunicated, speaking truth to
people about spiritual needs.
Then when it comes to physicalneeds, that's a tangible way
that we express love, but toyour point, we're not called to
be taken advantage of.
We're not called to, you know,well, we're called to be good
(30:48):
stewards.
SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
Exactly.
I mean, of the resources thatGod has entrusted us with.
And it's not necessarily being agood steward of those resources
if you're enabling sin andsinfulness.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
You know, but that that love maybe look like
helping them find work, helpingthem train, you know, not just
giving them a fish, right?
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Teaching them to fish, in essence, rather than
giving them a fish.
Absolutely.
But at the end of the day,again, so so guard against the
legalistic thoughts.
Uh whether you feel themyourself or people come at you
with them.
But at the end of the day, like,yeah, be loving.
And when in doubt, do it, Iwould say.
Like, er on the side of love,you know, and pray about it.
(31:27):
Grace.
Like we've been, we've receivedgrace.
So let's show grace to people.
We who have received mercy,let's show mercy.
Like uh Jesus commanded that,expects that, right?
Um, so that's all tied toloving.
If we if we don't have love,right first Corinthians 13.
(31:48):
All we are is a noisy gong and aclanging cymbal.
God forbid that that would beus.
Yep.
You know, we want to be a sweetsound to the Lord's ears as we
sing but as we act, a fragrantaroma to him.
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
And I think as we kind of bring it to a close, we
could talk love.
Oh, we could go on and on, man.
Like you say, we could relate itback to every single month we've
been through, but hopefully forthe Life Talk family, getting
the idea, and I thinkappropriate, you know, wrapping
up both foundationally as wellas heading into the Christmas
season, you know, the gift ofGod's son that love involves
(32:24):
giving, sacrifice that we'vetalked about, you know, just in
so many ways.
But as a church, you know, whenpeople come in on a Sunday
morning or or interact, youknow, what would they say?
Would they say that was a lovingchurch or not?
You know, do they feel that loveand that comes from going out of
your way to greet somebody youdon't know or you know, talk to
(32:44):
somebody or or make effortrather than just come in and you
know, if we're all just kind ofin our own little bubble, that's
not a loving congregation thatpeople are going to experience.
So if we want people toexperience the love of Christ,
that should be something thatmarks us really all the time,
but especially like Sundaymornings in our gatherings as a
church body, there should bethat difference that is tangibly
(33:06):
expressed.
And and you'll feel it, right?
Like you'll kind of feel thatwhenever you go.
You know, if it's a hot churchor a cold church or a lukewarm
church, like it's really gonnacome to that level of how is
that love of God playing outamongst us?
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
Absolutely.
And just I I know we have toclose, and I'm really I'll be
honest, I'm frustrated that wehave to close because there's so
much to be said.
But one more thought that justkind of came to me as you were
speaking is um love does justnot love does not merely
respond.
You know, when we see a need, werespond.
(33:42):
Absolutely we should.
Sure.
But I would say love pursuesproactive.
Proactive.
Like let's be on mission lookingfor needs.
Not just like if I mean there'stimes when because you know I'm
I'm a slow learner, the Lordjust like literally knocks me
upside the head or putssomething right in my face
because I'm like, I didn't seeit, you know.
(34:03):
But we should actually belooking, seeking for
opportunities to give, seekingopportunities to be generous,
seeking opportunities to pray,seeking opportunities to go,
like with our eyes open,looking, you know, being aware
of we live in a you don't haveto look far.
(34:24):
That's true, but actually look,seek, you know, and you will
find.
I I believe it, you know.
But but so just just the idea isdon't just sit merely respond
when given an opportunity, dobut I would charge beyond that
to actually pursueopportunities, be a blessing.
(34:46):
You who have been blessed, be ablessing to someone.
Like pray, Lord, who can I be ablessing to?
That's right.
That's a prayer that God willanswer.
I have no doubt.
He will show you who you can bea blessing to.
And it may not necessarily befinancially, it may be just do
writing a card, it may be justgiving someone a hug, sitting
(35:06):
beside them, speaking to them,sharing truth with them.
I mean, we could go, there'sjust so many different ways you
can do that.
It's not just we're not justtalking about giving
financially, meeting financialneeds, but practical needs.
SPEAKER_01 (35:20):
Uh give time, give attention.
You know, even like you say, wecould go on, but like whether
it's parenting or you know,marriage, like it ain't about
buying them stuff, it's aboutgiving them your time.
Too many families, parents arelike, I just they have
everything they want, but theydon't get my time.
So, like you say, there's somany different expressions that
need to be considered, and youcan show love in a lot of
(35:43):
different ways.
Again, I think like you'resaying, that's we have kind of a
materialistic society, sosometimes that's again, we get
that definition law wrong thatit has to be some kind of
monetary or material thing, butthat's also not true, which
again we could dive way intoeven more.
And and we will in some of ourupcoming episodes this month of
expressions of love that are notjust related to giving uh true
(36:07):
love praise.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (36:08):
You know, I mean you can't, if you love people, not
pray for them, you know, knowingthat prayer is profitable.
That's right.
We're saying I'll pray for youand not pray.
SPEAKER_01 (36:17):
Let's pray right now.
You know, that's true.
Love praise.
Can I get an amen?
Amen to that.
But well, Life Talk family,thanks for joining us.
Pastor Mark always appreciatesyour time, and we look uh
forward to journeying thismonth.
Thanks for your message on WeLove and and just I think this
year's been a blessing.
So we look forward to wrappingit up this month.
Amen.
(36:37):
All right, thanks, uh Life Talkfamily for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
Thanks for tuning in to the LifeTalk Podcast.
If this episode encouraged you,please be sure to like, comment,
subscribe, and leave a review soothers can find this content as
well.
And we'll look forward to seeingyou next Monday for another
great episode.
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