December 21, 2025 • 46 mins
If love feels slippery or one-sided, this conversation brings it down to earth. We sit with Chris and Kathy Daly, they learned in their marriage to trade performance, guilt, and quiet resentment for something sturdier: a Christ-shaped love that chooses, forgives, and serves even when the feelings lag. Their story doesn’t hide the hard parts—blended family tensions, baggage from previous marriages, and the temptation to keep a perfect mask—but it shows how faith and community can turn pain into purpose.
We walk through the moment their guard dropped at church and what changed when they realized love isn’t a mood but a decision. Kathy shares how freedom from shame unlocked the capacity to give and receive affection again. Chris frames marriage with the “triangle” model: as each spouse looks to Jesus, they naturally draw closer to each other. Together, they unpack the difference between selfish and selfless love, why pride blocks repair, and how practical encouragement fills your partner’s “bucket” so there’s actually something in reserve when conflict hits.
Forgiveness is the hinge in their approach. You’ll hear a simple but unforgettable exercise that makes bitterness feel as heavy as it is, and a freeing reminder to trust God’s justice rather than play judge. We also get into communication that actually works—naming expectations, speaking love languages, and asking questions like “How do you know I love you?” These aren’t big gestures; they’re daily investments that keep you off the “crazy cycle” and build a resilient, affectionate bond.
We also introduce Re:Engage, our 14-week marriage pathway at Lifehouse Church. Each spouse completes a weekly chapter on their own, then talks through it together before group, creating space for deep conversations that busy couples often skip. The result: shared vocabulary, honest testimony, and a safe community where isolation loses its grip. Whether you feel steady or stuck, there’s room to grow—and real people ready to walk with you.
If this resonated, subscribe, share it with a couple who needs hope, and leave a review so more listeners can find these conversations. Then tell us: what one loving action will you choose today?
New episodes every Monday
www.lifehousemot.com
info@lifehousede.com
Join us Sundays at 9 & 11 AM
Intro music by Joey Blair
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_05 (00:21):
What's up, Life Talk family?
Welcome back to the Life TalkPodcast.
Always excited to be coming toyou for another great episode.
And today, continuing thecouples theme that we've had
recently, I'm joined by two veryawesome guests, Chris and Kathy
Daly.
(00:41):
How are you guys today?
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Hey, hey, Nate.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_05 (00:44):
Got Chris, a repeat guest.
Kathy, first time on thepodcast.
Welcome.
Got a got a rookie.
We had Steph last week.
So bringing some new ladies on.
So it's great to have you guysand uh looking forward to our
conversation.
Uh just knowing what I knowabout you all, I know it will be
very impactful.
But for our listeners, you know,we've been going through the
(01:06):
month of December, which is welove and are faithfully
different.
And crazy, we are winding downthe year.
It is December, and man, wheredoes the year go by?
But uh we are finishing with thetheme of we love.
And uh today we're really goingto talk a lot about marriage,
just really how God's designedfor marriage and why love
(01:26):
matters so much.
But before we get to that, uhjust want to hear from our
guests today and uh Chris.
I looked it up in the archives,season four, episode four.
I think it was June of 2023.
We'll try to link that in theshow notes.
But uh any updates since then,Chris?
How's life going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Yeah, life is good.
Life is good.
Been plugged in with a lot ofdifferent things relative to uh
marriage and and justrelationships in general.
So Kathy and I have been doing alot of work with uh premarital
stuff and postmarital stuff.
So it's been really uh great tosee how God's kind of taking
those initial conversations wehad back in season four uh and
(02:04):
expanded on that.
Uh just been teaching me quite abit, teaching us both quite a
bit, actually, on not only umGod's just his magnificent love
for that relationship model, butalso his love for us as
individuals and as a couple.
SPEAKER_05 (02:19):
So absolutely.
So definitely encouragelisteners if you want to hear
more about Chris, uh definitelygo check that out.
He's got a really amazing storyuh just in the military, around
the world, uh coming out of theMormon church.
And I know I think we'll evenmention a little of that today,
but uh very inspiring.
And so thanks for taking thetime back then.
And I know it's some updatesthat we'll get to, but Kathy.
(02:41):
So listeners may not know awhole lot about uh Kathy Daly.
So kind of just tell us aboutKathy growing up, coming to
Christ, a little bit aboutyourself and what you'd like the
listeners to know about Kathy'sstory.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
Yeah.
Um, so I would say I had a greatchildhood.
Um grew up basically in the 70s.
Um I have a brother, actually, Ihad two brothers.
One passed away when I was 13years old.
Um, but I have a brother,mother, father, uh, my father
(03:16):
since passed.
But um we grew up in a typicalmiddle class household.
I didn't really realize until Iwas an adult that I probably
grew up in somewhat of adysfunctional family.
I thought all of our familieswere basically the same.
But I would say that our familywe grew up void of any like
(03:43):
relationship or emotions.
You know, we didn't really likeI never really heard I love you
um much growing up.
I didn't um you know, there wasfighting in the family, like I
would hear arguments in thefamily, but I never really heard
(04:06):
much of approval things,although although I would say
that my mother's my greatestfan.
So she always, even today,provides me with um, she's my
biggest cheerleader.
But other than that, you know,nobody else really ever told me
when I was doing good oranything like that.
(04:28):
We did go to church.
I was born and raised Lutheran.
Um, it was the church my fathergrew up in, that's where we
went.
SPEAKER_05 (04:35):
Um and this was in New Jersey?
No, this is Delaware.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
I'm born and raised in Delaware.
Um and I we went prettyfrequently, definitely holidays,
but on and off we went prettyfrequently.
Um, but you know, and I knew whoJesus was, but I didn't I only
(05:00):
knew of him.
I did not know him.
I didn't know him until I was inmy 30s actually, um, when Chris
and I both were saved at thesame time.
But I got married to uh the boythat I met and dated and
everything in college, um, and Imarried him.
(05:23):
That only lasted about nineyears when I chose to leave the
marriage, um, and I marriedChris.
Um, and when we got married, umwe both had been in previous
marriages when we came together.
(05:44):
And just um I think when we cametogether, it was great at the
very beginning, and then it fellapart pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
Started started a little bit of a decline.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
But we were both kind of seeking something, and
that's when an friend orsomebody who worked with Chris
kept asking us to go to church,and we or I didn't really want
to go to church.
Well, I wanted to go to churchdesperately, actually, but I
(06:23):
didn't want to go to where Ithought this church was.
SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
Yeah, that's a funny story.
She cat Kathy kept hearing theterm house church, and she
didn't have context, so shethought that this person's house
in that general area was thechurch, and she was emphatically
refusing to sit through churchin somebody's house.
I thought that was pretty funny.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Yeah.
Yes, until I found out thischurch was a massive church that
we went to, but we went to itfor the very first time.
Uh I wanted to make sure when wewent to it that nobody knew I
was a visitor.
I I just kind of wanted to rollin underneath.
Um, so nobody knew anythingabout me.
(07:05):
I didn't want anyone knowinganything about my business, my
past behaviors, anything likethat.
So I told Chris, we can't parkin visitors parking.
We have to park all the way inthe back.
We walk in, we sit in the back.
I don't want anybody to knowwe're there.
And it just so happens when wewalked in there, the guy who had
talked us into coming had beentelling people about us for
(07:30):
months and months and months.
They've been praying for us tocome to church, which I didn't
understand that when we firstwent in there.
But all these people greeted usand it was horrific to me.
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
She was mortified.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
I was.
But we proceeded to to sit inthe pew, and the pastor, the
senior pastor of the church,felt like he spoke directly to
us, and we we left there in apuddle, like we both broke down
crying, sitting in the pew,realizing we were sinners that
(08:08):
needed a savior.
And he rarely ever did an altarcall.
I don't even know if I we wentto that church from that day on
for years.
I don't recall him ever doing analtar call, but he did one that
day.
And that's when Chris and Irealized we needed to give our
(08:30):
life to Christ.
SPEAKER_05 (08:31):
Amen.
That's awesome together too.
You know, that's a lot of storyof that.
Being prayed into the kingdom,people praying for you guys.
Yeah, it's that's great.
It's pretty incredible.
Even though you didn't want togo.
So the Holy Spirit clearlyworking.
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
God knew best.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
Well, it's funny.
I mean, we talk about it when weshared our testimony during the
re-engage uh group as well, butuh the sailboat that we got
married on a year before?
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Uh no, no, months, only months before.
Months before.
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
Well, it's September, yeah, that's right.
Um, but the name of the boat wascalled the Soul Diversion.
And we kind of, you know, didn'tthink about that for several,
several years.
All of a sudden we looked at thepicture one day and realized
there's a there's a corollarythere.
SPEAKER_05 (09:12):
Soul was gonna be diverted in a big way.
Yes, indeed.
So very cool.
So you guys, and I know youshared kind of coming up maybe
more in a transactionalhousehold, not really uh kind of
that love that you mentioned,more of achievement, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
Kind of your parents looking for that.
SPEAKER_05 (09:29):
I think I'd heard you previously share, you know,
your dad being very academic andand a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Yes, very smart, but not very relational.
SPEAKER_05 (09:38):
And so we carry a lot of those things, the
definitions that we pick up fromprevious marriages from our
families, you know, it'ssomething we definitely see out
in the world.
So maybe, you know, you guys cankind of share and again turning
towards marriage, married, cometo Christ, you know, what are
the things, you know, especiallyas you started to see changes in
(09:59):
your marriage and understandinghow needing to redefine some
things and and kind of see howGod's love plays out in
marriage.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Yeah.
I mean, well, Kathy mentioned itearlier, right?
That our marriage, even thoughit was great at first, started
to degrade because it was allthe habits of the old, the old
us, right?
The the I'll call it the selfishlove versus the selfless love.
Um and we and that's a learnedattribute.
I mean, it took us a long timeto figure that out, at least it
(10:29):
feels like a long time.
We've been married a long time,so it took a while for us to get
into a pattern of behavior whereit felt like you know it was
less about us as the individual.
What do we get out of therelationship?
What are we expecting from therelationship versus how how
Christ views the marriage, whichis how do you serve the other
person?
How do you selflessly give?
How do you um show grace andshow mercy when sometimes those
(10:54):
are really hard things to show,especially in the relationship
of a marriage, because you know,the you know the other person
and the other person knows youbetter than anybody else on this
planet.
SPEAKER_05 (11:04):
Knows how to push each other's buttons.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
Yeah, I used to joke around, call it the chinks in
the armor, where you could justslip in the the poking stick and
just remind me that uh thatthat's a shortcoming.
And and this is an individualplease chime in, but you know
all those uh areas that arerough, say still still in the
work of sanctification.
And it's very humbling.
(11:29):
I I always say, yeah, they sayGod uses you to talk to me on a
regular basis.
And and he does, and I mean thatin a serious way as well as
joking sometimes, but um I hereveals a lot of things that
need to change through my wife.
SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
I think um the world teaches us that love is a
feeling.
You know, everything we read,everything we see on TV, the
movies that we watch orwhatever, love is a feeling.
So, like for me, I grew up thatlove was a feeling, you know.
And um, it wasn't until I becamea Christian that I totally
(12:07):
understood that love is achoice.
It's not a feeling, it's achoice.
You know, God made a choice, youknow.
John 3 16 tells us that God soloved the world he gave his only
son.
That's uh that for whoeverbelieves in him will have
eternal life.
(12:27):
But he he made the choice togive his son.
And so in marriage, when youunderstand what that true love
is, that God, God's love, thenyou understand that you have to
make a choice every day to loveyour spouse.
SPEAKER_05 (12:49):
And not just a choice, but a choice to give and
sacrificially, right?
Yeah.
Like you're talking about,Kathy, is getting outside of
yourself, getting away fromthose feelings of well, when I
feel it, then I'll give, or thenI'll choose when the feelings
(13:12):
move me rather than choosing inspite of feelings.
And I think something you weresaying too, Chris, like not only
do we know those chinks, but alot of times we see the worst of
we give our spouse the worst ofourselves, right?
Because we go around all day,we're happy at work and doing
our job, and then we get homeand we have like either no
energy or we're annoyed from allthe people, you know, and then a
(13:34):
lot of times our spouseexperiences that, unfortunately.
And so we say the empty bucket,right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Look, I mean, that there's abook that talks about how you
can pour into somebody theirbucket, right?
You take ladles and you'repouring in, pouring in
compliments, positives, youknow, the the accolades of why
you love that individual.
Um, and occasionally you saysomething that requires a ladle
to be pulled out, or maybeyou're speaking some truth in
(14:01):
love that requires a ladle to bepulled out.
Um, the bucket has to have waterin it.
So if you it's a balance, right?
That's where you're going withthat point.
Yep.
You got to be able to put stuffin to make a withdrawal.
SPEAKER_05 (14:13):
We have to fill each other up in marriage.
It's the purpose of marriage anda true love when we see each
other, you know, either emptyand we move towards, even when
it may be hard.
Like you say, it may be I don'twant to make this choice.
I'm tired too, but my spouseneeds me.
I'm going to, I think you usedit earlier, Chris, serve our
(14:33):
spouse in a in a way and interms of getting outside of
ourselves.
So how did that process look foryou guys?
I know, like I say, you getmarried, you know, not
believing, coming to faith, youknow, the sanctification that
we've mentioned, like how toreally redefine were there any
kind of critical moments or orjust kind of ways over time that
God helped you redefine thatlove of you know, kind of lack
(14:55):
of it in your family, Kathy, andyou know, seeing the feelings
aspect that our culture definesit, how or maybe some times or
ways that just within your ownexperience you saw that change.
SPEAKER_00 (15:06):
Yeah.
I think in the beginning, it toKathy's point earlier, it was
bumpy because we had a blendedfamily.
So we had two little childrenunder the age of, well, under
the age of five, three, when wegot to the city.
SPEAKER_01 (15:17):
Well, they met at two.
Yeah, two and a half.
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
And when we got married, they were five.
Um so that was that was a bigchallenge for us because you
know, parenting skills,different.
Uh guilt.
I don't want to speak for you,yeah.
Feelings of guilt, right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Yeah, we came together in an unconventional
way or really a sinful way,because we um, you know, I was
married when I met Chris and hadan affair with Chris and left my
husband for Chris.
And um so once we got married, Ihad guilt and shame terrible.
(15:56):
I mean, I took it out on Chrisafter we got married every day
probably, because I felt soguilty for what I had done.
And it wasn't until I understoodthat Jesus took the guilt with
the sin away that I was free ofthat guilt and shame.
(16:22):
It wasn't really until then,which probably was a year or two
or so after we got married,probably about that, that I
could start seeing ourrelationship as one that we
could please God, we could worktowards to please God.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
Yeah, yeah, and I think over the period of time
that that Kathy's referring to,from that point forward, it's a
continual work in progress.
Um it it becomes easier the morefocused we are on Christ.
I mean, we we always you hear metalk about the triangle all the
time, right?
With with Jesus at the top andthe with us looking at him, we
just naturally draw closer toeach other.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
And that that's been basically the story of our of
our Well, I think at first,first off, we didn't we wore a
mask around everybody we knew.
We didn't want anyone to knowwhat our past was like.
So they just thought we werejust this happy little family,
um, didn't know anything aboutour past, and we wouldn't share
(17:24):
anything about our past.
But God kept revealing to usthat you know what, you need to
rip off the scab in order totell your story.
And your story is what's gonnahelp other people.
So once we started doing that inhelping couples that were going
(17:45):
through difficult challenges intheir marriage and us sharing
what we went through, that'swhen our marriage started to
transform.
SPEAKER_00 (17:56):
Yeah.
And and it wasn't up to us toselect who were that who or when
or where God would ultimatelyput people in front of us and
cause us to share.
Yeah, we didn't want to share.
That was a door we were veryreluctant to walk through for
obvious reasons, what Kathysaid.
It was you know, something to bewe were ashamed of our behavior
(18:16):
prior to that.
And um, yeah, you know, like Isaid, nothing, whatever the
enemy intends for evil, Godturns it to good.
SPEAKER_05 (18:23):
So it's well, and I think something you said, Kathy,
too, that's so important inrelation to love.
Freedom from the guilt, but nowfreedom to love in a different
way.
I mean, we're not when we'reshackled to sin, you know, the
focus is on ourself, the guilt,that inward focus.
It takes Christ to turn usinside out so that we are now
free to.
(18:44):
You know, too many people want,oh, I want freedom from rules
and regs and whatever, but whatare you free to do?
And that's something that's sosignificant in coming to Christ
is now we are free to actuallylove other people in a
self-sacrificial way and notexpect anything in return.
You know, when you don't knowChrist, I'm shackled by like,
oh, if I love you, you betterlove me back, or the feelings.
(19:06):
I better get some feelings outof this, or I better get
something coming back my way,which is really enslaving,
right?
Because you're only going to actin such a way as to get exactly.
But when we're free too, this isfree.
I can just love and pour outthat same love that we've
experienced through Christ.
Like such an important theme inmarriage, you know, that we've
(19:28):
kind of talked about.
Sounds like that really startedto play out.
Like you say, it's not a lightswitch, unfortunately.
I wish it was, right?
You know, I mean salvationweirdness, but sanctification
slowly comes up.
But but yeah, and when we tellour story, I think we talk about
this a lot in marriage.
And when you know you mentionedre-engage, Chris, which I'll
(19:49):
kind of mention that at the endtoo, but so much the lie of
Satan is we're the only ones,right?
Like what you guys were dealingwith.
Like, we can't tell our storybecause everybody else is in.
Good shape, and we're not, so webetter not talk about it.
But we learn, you know, likewe've all been through things in
marriage.
We're all broken people, sobeing able to share our story is
(20:09):
so critical to encouraging andthat freedom to share our story
in a way that hey, I'm I'm notshackled to that guilt, so I'm
free to now share this in anencouraging way, I would say.
SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you'd be surprised howmany people we talk to who other
couples who who just thinkeverybody else isn't having
these problems.
And it's it's kind of a blessingthat we've been down that path.
I mean, it was rough when you'regoing through it, but be able to
take it and and feed intosomeone or pour into an
individual or a couple to remindthem that you're not you're not
(20:42):
alone.
You know, that's the enemy'slie, back to your point, eh,
right?
He just wants to make you thinkyou're on an island.
Don't tell anybody it's all you.
SPEAKER_01 (20:49):
Um but and you're only in the valley for a while.
Yeah.
You get to the mountaintop.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Exactly.
So it's uh yeah, it's a process.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
Yeah, I would say I know you might talk about
engage, re-engage a little bitlater or whatever, but one of
the biggest things I feel is anadvantage of the re-engage are
the testimonies.
Because that's where groups ofpeople get to hear, you know,
you see people and you think,like you said, they have it all
(21:18):
together.
And then you hear their storiesand you see how God's worked in
their life.
It's pretty amazing to sit thereand be a witness to listening to
somebody's testimony.
And then when you share in thegroups, people realize they're
not the only ones in thesituation.
(21:39):
That's that's the beauty of thethe group setting of re-engage.
SPEAKER_05 (21:45):
And I think that's probably why, you know, maybe
you can kind of share where Godmoved you to kind of start
helping other couples.
And I think that's why we neversay counseling is bad, right?
So I don't I want to make sureto be up front.
We're not saying don't docounseling, but a lot of times
if you're just going tocounseling by yourselves as a
couple couple where you don'thave somebody like you all, just
(22:05):
a counselor who's therelistening, you can get stuck in
that too.
Like it's just us and we got tofigure this out.
So exactly like you say, andwe'll talk a little bit more
about you know, re-engage thepurpose.
But when we're together andwe're encouraging each other,
and you know, I've had so manypeople where I'll talk to them
and just share things going onin my marriage, and they're
like, Oh, but you know, Ithought you guys were like this
(22:27):
perfect couple of them.
Not at all.
And if my wife is listening tothis, sometimes she listens and
I say this, I've said itrepeatedly.
Like, if I had a dollar forevery time we would have
struggles or arguments, andshe'd say, We're the only ones
who are dealing with this.
And I'm like, Well, that's alie.
You know, like I haven't been inministry that long, but talking
(22:47):
to enough people, like we're alldealing with things because
we're all sinners and we're allworking through the
sanctification and why Godbrings us into community.
What I love is really expressed,like you say, in groups, in
sharing, in encouraging oneanother, and how that plays out
in marriage.
So, yeah, maybe you guys cantalk a little bit about you know
how God's moved you to reallybe, like you said, premarital,
(23:09):
postmarital, pouring intomarriages, taking your story and
encouraging other people, whichis a I would say a loving thing
to do, right?
It's hard, like you say, it'spulling off the scab, it's not
comfortable.
We don't like necessarily havingto, you know, say all those
things, but how God's kind ofreally worked in you guys that
way.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
I think it started when we actually um became
Christian.
We jumped right in.
We we felt the urge to serveright away, and we jumped in
actually into children'sministry.
We jumped into the ages of ourkids, and we actually worked in
children's ministry all the wayup as our kids went through
(23:48):
children's ministry.
Through college, throughcollege, and we did college
groups, we would have them atour house and stuff, and it
really wasn't until thosecollege kids started getting
married that we then startedthey c they actually came to us
looking for advice.
And so we started gettinginvolved in working with
(24:11):
premarried and ones that havejust yeah, just gotten married,
giving them advice, and we lovedit.
And and we started then sharingwith them a little bit of our
background and kind of what wecan tell you is what not to do.
(24:32):
That's right.
So you know, don't make thesemistakes, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
And and that was like the beginning of the
premarital, early marriagestuff.
But as I started, I was pluggedinto men's ministry, as you
know, it back in the day.
And a lot of opportunities wouldcome up where just guys were
struggling in their marriage fora number of reasons, whether the
whatever the sinful behaviorwas, or the addiction, or just
(24:57):
the misunderstanding, and notbeing able to um love openly the
way that we're talking about.
Um that started to to reallyhighlight that there was a need
for not just the individual, youknow, woman-to-woman, man-to-man
counseling, but a a solidbiblical perspective of marriage
from a couple who has beenthere, done that, and had
(25:20):
victory over it, praise God, forhaving a relationship that is is
honoring him and and andsatisfying, happy relationship.
I mean, you know what?
Obviously, we don't want to comeoff as perfect.
We have our moments as wellwhere you know we can disagree.
But we, as I tell the couplesthat we meet with, you should
always be with somebody who youcan argue well with because
(25:42):
disagreement and conflict isgonna come, it has to for a
healthy dynamic in therelationship.
We're all not like you know,identical to one another.
But being able to resolve thatconflict in a God-honoring way,
is uh that and communication aretwo of the hugest components.
SPEAKER_01 (25:59):
I don't know if you yeah, I agree.
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (26:02):
And how do you see love really play into some of
that conflict resolution, thatunderstanding versus
misunderstanding we kind ofalluded to?
How do you see that play outwhere we have a misconception of
love, either self-centered orfeeling-centered, or uh whatever
the case may be?
How do you kind of end up seeingthat break up marriages when we
(26:23):
get it wrong?
SPEAKER_00 (26:24):
Yeah.
I I mean, I think pride plays alot into some of the challenges
with being able to love somebodythe way you want to be loved.
If you if you give, you know, itmay not come back right away,
but it at some point you shouldstart to see something easing up
in the relationship.
Um and even if it doesn't, thenGod's teaching you something,
(26:46):
teaching the other personsomething.
That's a sanctification process.
But I think uh you know, justbeing able to understand what
your spouse needs and seeking tos to help them first.
That that should be the selflessact of love.
I mean, Christ kind of livedthat out for us as a perfect
example, but that's how we evenknow what love is, right?
SPEAKER_05 (27:08):
I think it's biblically we don't even know
what this looks like if Goddoesn't show it to us because
just in our natural sinfulstate, you know, we just focus
on ourselves, you know, we'rejust trying to and the world
twists it to Kathy's point,right?
SPEAKER_00 (27:20):
The world's got a different definition of what
love is.
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
Yeah, I think in marriage though, there's love
and there's also forgiveness.
And I think um if you know we attimes will work with couples who
are having challenging have achallenging marriage.
And I think one of the thingsthat holds them back is the act
(27:46):
of forgiveness.
Like they can't forgive oneanother for whatever they need
to forgive one another and getpast that enough to then let
that relationship start torepair.
I think that's tough.
(28:09):
Forgiveness.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
We use an exercise with some of the couples where
we give them a 10-pound weightand hold it up in their hand and
just hold on to that anger foryour spouse as long as you can
and see how tiring that becomes.
And and it it's a it's a realphysical representation of the
weight or the burden of back toyour point, unforgiveness.
And if you think about it, it'susually something I I don't want
(28:34):
to underplay anybody'sstruggles, but some most times
it's not it's not reallyimportant enough to hold on to
that.
It's it's really not.
It's more damaging and unhealthythan anything else.
And and we learn when we when wecan offer forgiveness and we
learn to love more effectively.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
Well, when we understand what forgiveness is,
you know, I mean what whatChrist did for us, yes, and how
God forgave us, um how can wenot forgive?
SPEAKER_05 (29:03):
Yeah.
That's exactly where I was gonnago with that is forgiveness and
love are you know, when we lookat God's love for us, involved
his sacrifice so that we couldbe forgiven, you know, had to
have that.
And I know we could play out,you know, the whole, and again,
we'll talk a little bit at theend in kind of the program, but
then forgiveness involves thatkind of change and making
(29:24):
amends.
But it starts with forgiveness.
You know, there can't be thatexpectation or focusing on have
to get something back.
Like, no, we have to forgive inlove.
You know, it's because of thething.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Regardless of whether we get anything from
that person.
I mean, we're just called toforgive regardless.
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
Wasn't there something during the re-engage
program that you kind of drewsome Do you mean the circle?
No, the circle.
It was around forgiveness andand like turning it over to God
to let God's justice system andand sanctification process work
that way.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Yeah, that should be free.
I mean, when we think aboutforgiving for an somebody,
forgiving our spouse for an actof sin that they've done or
yeah, committed, then it's justknowing that God is the one that
um is the judge in all of that.
(30:18):
You don't have to to be thejudge, it's actually freeing to
be able to forgive.
SPEAKER_05 (30:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
Because then you're done.
SPEAKER_05 (30:27):
Just like that weight you were mentioning
holding up.
And I've heard thatunfortunately in a few limited
you guys have more experiencethan I do, but a few situations
where a wife would say somethinglike to the effect of I can't
forgive him for this, and kindof more fully understanding love
and those uh in that situation,I'd be like, Well, if that is
true, like you're your yourmarriage is over, like you're
(30:49):
not gonna survive that kind ofunforgiveness, which is a
withholding of love.
Like if you're not willing toforgive, you're withholding that
self-sacrification.
You're making a choice not tolay that aside, I would say.
Let me know if you disagree withthat.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
And and I lived through it whenI made some very poor choices
and took some very poor actionsthat that almost cost us our
marriage.
Um, but Kathy again demonstratedwell, it it could have, I should
say.
Yeah.
Um and should have, in contextof the the sinful aspect of it.
(31:26):
But again, Kathy showed graceand forgiveness, and uh that
that actually showed me a lotand taught me a lot about the
level of our relationship andthe dynamic that she can show me
through the the act of grace andforgiveness, and that that was
that was pretty impactful.
unknown (31:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:47):
It was really display, those are the times we
have to live it out, right?
You know, I've been through thatin my marriage too, where it
came to a point of like, yeah,you know, we put it on the table
and it's like, but I'm notperfect.
And if if we're really honestabout it, you know, like if I'd
have been a perfect husband,maybe that doesn't happen, or
you know, vice versa, you know.
So a lot of times, you know, andagain, kind of we keep
(32:07):
mentioning it and go into it,but like, you know, and
re-engage, week two, you'reyou're a broken person, you
gotta draw the circle aroundyourself and like focus on what
you can fix because you know,hold up the mirror and see how
that looks sometimes when youreally think about, you know,
have you been loving?
Have you been unconditionallyloving?
And most of the time the answeris no, you know, and I think you
(32:27):
mentioned the triangle earlier,like if your relationship with
God, you're not understandingthat love, yeah.
It's gonna play out in yourmarriage, ultimately, all of
your relationships, butespecially your marriage
marriage, I would say.
SPEAKER_03 (32:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
Yeah, there's um there's a lot of opportunity
there for couples to tounderstand how to speak to their
spouse.
And I'm and I'm not just talkingabout verbal, I mean the whole
picture, right?
What what is it that my myspouse needs to be uplifted?
What are their love languages?
What are um what are the thingsthat they need to feel for me?
(33:00):
And how do they see Christthrough how I'm responding to
them?
And I think that's uh that's oneof the things that lately has
been really evident to me in inrelationships, is how do I, as
the husband, how do I emulateChrist so that Kathy sees Christ
through me and not just againour marriage, but everything
that I do and say, whether it'shelping somebody across the
(33:22):
street shovel their driveway oror something, anything.
I mean, it could be the laundrylist of things, but that she
sees that living out in reallife.
SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (33:34):
So I think maybe kind of bringing it to, you
know, a kind of summary, youknow, what are the biggest
takeaways you would say,especially in your experience,
you know, how really marriageand love have to, we were joking
when we were setting this up,right?
Love and marriage.
They go together like a horse incourage, right?
You know, old song.
Don't ask me to sing that.
Uh no, we're not singing on thepodcast.
I that we leave that to Rob andthe worship team.
(33:56):
No singing here.
I'll talk.
But but yeah, maybe just kind ofshare, you know, how you would
kind of encourage anybody who'slistening, whether married in a
good place, not a good place,uh, how how you guys would
encourage everyone listeningwith that.
Maybe not married yet, but whatthey need to get right going in,
you know, kind of mentionedgoing in with the wrong ideas.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Wanna start?
Go ahead.
Okay.
Um, well, yeah, I think youknow, God is a reminder, God is
bigger than any problem that youmight run into as a married
couple.
I know it doesn't feel like thatat times.
Uh there can be moments during arelationship where, you know,
we've talked to couples wherethey're in some pretty dark
spots.
Um, and we were in one of thosedark spots on a couple of
(34:39):
occasions.
But like I said, God is isbigger than all of that.
And we just have to put ourtrust and faith that He's gonna
put people in our path to helpus out when when we need it.
Um and and just again being opento to receive information, to
receive guidance, to receivethat prayer uh and into their
(35:01):
lives as a as a married couple,so that they're they're getting
wise counsel.
Don't listen to the world,listen to to the Holy Spirit,
listen to the people that Godputs around you to to make those
decisions.
But I mean love love is veryperverted in the world.
It's a very broken over to useyour word, it's an overused
(35:22):
word, um, and nobody reallyknows what it is and outside
that biblical context.
So I my suggestion would beanchor yourself in the word,
anchor yourself with biblicalcounseling if you're in need of
it.
Premarital during the marriage,or even I mean, we have divorce
care and other things,unfortunately, those things
still happen in the world and inthe church.
(35:43):
Um but there's there's a lessonto be learned there.
God, God doesn't let anything goto waste as we've both lived
through.
SPEAKER_01 (35:51):
I think um too, Nate, you brought up community.
Community is so important.
Um I I really think that amarriage, a marriage can be
really good just the two of you,but it can be outstanding when
you have other couples that arepouring into you or you're
(36:14):
pouring into them.
They're holding you accountable,they're helping you see blind
spots that you might have,things, things like that.
I think community is just reallyimportant to help couples just
continue to love each othersacrificially.
(36:36):
I just think community is justreally important.
But forgiveness and love gotogether.
SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
So that's the part I think that's the part that we
enjoy the most about theministry aspect that we
participate in.
Being able to pour into thesecouples and to share our stories
and to help them.
I mean, we genuinely love thesecouples we meet.
I mean it it breaks our heart tosee some of the things that
sometimes some couples strugglewith.
But we we know that like I said,we serve a God who's bigger than
(37:04):
those problems.
We just pray him over it.
SPEAKER_05 (37:08):
The the width, the depth, the height, the length of
God's love can overcome if weallow that to dictate our
marriages.
And no, I love the communityaspect too, because something
we've kind of talked about withyou know, the lies that Satan
will say of it's only you, whichmakes you want to isolate,
right?
Like, well, I can't be aroundthese other couples because we
don't fit in, because theythey're in good and we're not.
(37:29):
And like, no, when we cometogether, we encourage each
other, you know, in those kindof ways of like, well, yeah, we
we dealt with that a while ago,or we're dealing with that too,
and let's talk about it, let'sbe honest about these things.
And that's a loving thing to do,you know.
We've kind of talked about that,what you guys do.
It's a sacrifice to step intoother people's situations, to
(37:50):
care for them, to take time topour into them.
So that's something, you know,when people have done that for
us, how can we not, you know,pay that forward and continue in
community to help each other?
So and I think that's a goodsegue.
Uh, we are excited, man.
We've been dropping hints allepisode.
Uh, you know, we are inDecember, but something we're
excited heading into 2026.
(38:11):
Um, we've been piloting aprogram, so we're excited we're
going to be starting a marriageministry here at Lifehouse
Church.
You know, specifically, whetheryou're a Lifehouse member,
you're in the MOT area, uh, andjust Chris and Kathy out of
heart.
Uh, my wife Ashley and I do,many other couples here as well.
Like you said, being incommunity to uh launch this
ministry.
It's called Reengage.
(38:32):
It's a great program.
Maybe you guys can comment.
You know, I think theadvantages, like you said, the
group aspect of it.
It's a 14-week program thatcovers a lot of ground.
Uh maybe just kind of talk abouthow these programs, you know,
they're not silver bullets, theyrequire work, but how putting
that effort into your marriageis really related to love.
So maybe you guys can kind ofgive your thoughts or
encouragement, something uh forthe Lifehouse family, keep a
(38:55):
lookout.
But if you are in looking toimprove your marriage, like I
say, we're never perfect, soalways something to be working
on.
So I'd love to hear yourthoughts as well.
SPEAKER_01 (39:03):
I think I love the re-engage program.
Um, what I think the audienceneeds to know is well, or they
are already do know if they'rein a marriage, is marriage takes
work.
I mean, we work on our we haveto work on our marriage and
continue to work on ourmarriage.
It's um it's just needs care andfeeding all the time.
(39:26):
What I like about re-engage isevery week there's a chapter,
and the requirement of re-engagewas for the wife to work through
the chapter separately from thehusband, but then they were to
come together and talk abouttheir answers to the questions
(39:49):
and the chapter before we met asa group, which I don't know that
any program you do that whereyou talk.
one another about your stuffbefore you actually come to the
group together.
I thought it was eye-openingthat all these couples that we
(40:11):
were in group with all workedwith one another ahead of time
and then they shared perspectiveabout what that looked like them
working together, talkingthrough the the questions
together.
I thought that was awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Yeah.
I agree.
The material was really good.
And um it was applicable on alot of different levels.
And I like how back to Kathy'spoint how it I wouldn't say it
forced the work to be done aheadof time, but it it did make you
have conversations about thingsthat you know like there were a
(40:50):
couple of topics we got ontowere like I didn't I didn't know
if that upset you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:55):
So hey put that put that down.
SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
I think we joked the first meeting we said oh we
almost got divorced over thatway yeah it was I wasn't that
extreme but it was definitelyeye-opening because it you know
makes you verbalize things thatare like just assumptions or
truths to your marriage and Ithink that questioned a few
things there.
But yeah good material uh goodconversations I think in the
(41:19):
beginning to your point it'salways a little awkward
everybody's kind of like youknow deer in the headlights um
but as we went through thetestimonies that were shared
some of the the couples thatshared that that raw testimony
in some cases um people becametransparent yeah I think that
really get give people anopportunity to say okay I can I
can talk about some of these asafe space right while dealing
(41:41):
with this and some things youguys brought out I would
reiterate too so much inmarriage in our culture and
society we get so busy too likewe don't have these deep
conversations.
SPEAKER_05 (41:51):
What I love about the program is like it forced
you like you say individually tobe in respective and then also
to have a deep conversation.
I mean too often in marriage youknow and guilty gets charged
here like we're just worriedabout oh you know you got to get
stuff at the store what's theschedule you know when we got to
be here when we got to be thererather than let's talk about why
do we have the expectations ofeach other we do.
(42:13):
You know we talk about growingup you know what you saw in your
home and that's what we carryinto marriage and a lot of times
we don't even think about thator why do we communicate have
the communication issues that wedo.
I don't know I'll text you laterwe'll find out so exactly right
so forgiveness like youmentioned like these are things
that we just need to haveconversations about a lot of
couples haven't you know andagain speaking from my
(42:35):
experience didn't really do goodpremarital counseling so a lot
of the stuff we hadn't dug outand so it's beneficial.
SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
I and just like a question how do I or like Chris
how do you know that I love youyou know and and hearing what he
has to say well I know you loveme when you do this kind of oh
okay you know it's just aquestion like that that you
don't even you just assume thatthey know what they need to do
(43:07):
in order for you to feel loved.
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
That goes back to Nate's point around
communication.
SPEAKER_05 (43:11):
Yeah I mean that's love languages, all those kind
of things but if we don'tprovognize and talk about these
things we miss it.
We start to have misplacedexpectations and and then that
lowers our commitment and yeahit's a it's uh it's a cycle.
SPEAKER_00 (43:26):
I mean there's a great book by Eggriches which
I'm sure you know with love andrespect where he talks about the
crazy cycle and just keepgetting back on it.
And yeah that's uh it's it's itcan be avoided with a little bit
of work.
Back to Kathy's point.
Marriage is hard work.
It's like if if your marriagewas let's say you've got a house
that's your biggest physicalasset.
You take care of it you makesure the roof isn't leaking the
(43:47):
walls aren't cracked the doorsthe windows are working your
marriage is much more importantand worth much much more than
your house.
So what are you going to investin that?
SPEAKER_05 (43:56):
Investing right I think it was the the last
chapter right like you need tobe continually investing.
And the day you get kind of lazyabout it is the day the cracks
are going to appear and thingslife's gonna start to get in the
way and Satan will get hislittle toehold because you're
not working towards you knowthat triangle that you're
talking about like towards Godand towards each other.
(44:16):
So but we're super excited to bestarting that next year.
So for our listeners, you knowwe do here at Lifehouse have a
big heart to pour into marriagesso whether you're in a good
place, I think it wasinteresting you know first week
you have to evaluate you knowit's like you know are you a one
to a 10?
And I I would even say it'sinteresting and I think that
through like you're probablybetter off if you're a five and
(44:38):
you're coming and you're workingon it versus you're a nine and
you're apathetic.
Yeah.
You know so I mean you you'reeither trending up or you're
trending down.
And if you're not working on ityou're trending down.
Maybe you don't know it yet butuh just an opportunity like it's
for everybody.
It's not just like you saidadmitting we have struggles.
Hey we all have struggles we canall work on things and I think
(44:59):
you guys alluded to it even forAsh and I we had some weeks
where there's some intenseconversations and things you
hadn't talked about before.
So I definitely encourage ourlisteners if you're interested
reach out to us more informationif you come here to Lifehouse
will be uh coming out we'reexcited it's kind of an ongoing
program so it's not like ifyou're not there week one you
miss the boat but something wetruly have a heart to uh
(45:22):
continue to help people getengaged re-engaged with with
that and improve their marriagebut well Chris and Kathy thank
you guys so much one for all youdo here at Lifehouse taking some
time uh to come on the podcast Iknow it's a sacrifice you guys
Chris is uh all over the placeand Kathy very busy with her own
business and and just so manythings that you guys do.
So appreciate your time uh justeverything you guys do to help
(45:45):
marriages and really just showthe love of Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (45:48):
So thanks for having us thanks Nate it was a
pleasure.
SPEAKER_05 (45:51):
So remember Lifehouse Family we love.
Show that love in your homes inyour communities and your
workplaces continue to uh takethat love forward and thanks for
journeying with us this month.
We will see you all next time tothe Life Talk podcast if this
episode encouraged you please besure to like comment subscribe
(46:14):
and leave a review so others canfind this content as well and
we'll look forward to seeing younext Monday for another great
episode
What's up, Life Talk family?
Welcome back to the Life TalkPodcast.
Always excited to be coming toyou for another great episode.
And today, continuing thecouples theme that we've had
recently, I'm joined by two veryawesome guests, Chris and Kathy
Daly.
(00:41):
How are you guys today?
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
Hey, hey, Nate.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_05 (00:44):
Got Chris, a repeat guest.
Kathy, first time on thepodcast.
Welcome.
Got a got a rookie.
We had Steph last week.
So bringing some new ladies on.
So it's great to have you guysand uh looking forward to our
conversation.
Uh just knowing what I knowabout you all, I know it will be
very impactful.
But for our listeners, you know,we've been going through the
(01:06):
month of December, which is welove and are faithfully
different.
And crazy, we are winding downthe year.
It is December, and man, wheredoes the year go by?
But uh we are finishing with thetheme of we love.
And uh today we're really goingto talk a lot about marriage,
just really how God's designedfor marriage and why love
(01:26):
matters so much.
But before we get to that, uhjust want to hear from our
guests today and uh Chris.
I looked it up in the archives,season four, episode four.
I think it was June of 2023.
We'll try to link that in theshow notes.
But uh any updates since then,Chris?
How's life going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Yeah, life is good.
Life is good.
Been plugged in with a lot ofdifferent things relative to uh
marriage and and justrelationships in general.
So Kathy and I have been doing alot of work with uh premarital
stuff and postmarital stuff.
So it's been really uh great tosee how God's kind of taking
those initial conversations wehad back in season four uh and
(02:04):
expanded on that.
Uh just been teaching me quite abit, teaching us both quite a
bit, actually, on not only umGod's just his magnificent love
for that relationship model, butalso his love for us as
individuals and as a couple.
SPEAKER_05 (02:19):
So absolutely.
So definitely encouragelisteners if you want to hear
more about Chris, uh definitelygo check that out.
He's got a really amazing storyuh just in the military, around
the world, uh coming out of theMormon church.
And I know I think we'll evenmention a little of that today,
but uh very inspiring.
And so thanks for taking thetime back then.
And I know it's some updatesthat we'll get to, but Kathy.
(02:41):
So listeners may not know awhole lot about uh Kathy Daly.
So kind of just tell us aboutKathy growing up, coming to
Christ, a little bit aboutyourself and what you'd like the
listeners to know about Kathy'sstory.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
Yeah.
Um, so I would say I had a greatchildhood.
Um grew up basically in the 70s.
Um I have a brother, actually, Ihad two brothers.
One passed away when I was 13years old.
Um, but I have a brother,mother, father, uh, my father
(03:16):
since passed.
But um we grew up in a typicalmiddle class household.
I didn't really realize until Iwas an adult that I probably
grew up in somewhat of adysfunctional family.
I thought all of our familieswere basically the same.
But I would say that our familywe grew up void of any like
(03:43):
relationship or emotions.
You know, we didn't really likeI never really heard I love you
um much growing up.
I didn't um you know, there wasfighting in the family, like I
would hear arguments in thefamily, but I never really heard
(04:06):
much of approval things,although although I would say
that my mother's my greatestfan.
So she always, even today,provides me with um, she's my
biggest cheerleader.
But other than that, you know,nobody else really ever told me
when I was doing good oranything like that.
(04:28):
We did go to church.
I was born and raised Lutheran.
Um, it was the church my fathergrew up in, that's where we
went.
SPEAKER_05 (04:35):
Um and this was in New Jersey?
No, this is Delaware.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
I'm born and raised in Delaware.
Um and I we went prettyfrequently, definitely holidays,
but on and off we went prettyfrequently.
Um, but you know, and I knew whoJesus was, but I didn't I only
(05:00):
knew of him.
I did not know him.
I didn't know him until I was inmy 30s actually, um, when Chris
and I both were saved at thesame time.
But I got married to uh the boythat I met and dated and
everything in college, um, and Imarried him.
(05:23):
That only lasted about nineyears when I chose to leave the
marriage, um, and I marriedChris.
Um, and when we got married, umwe both had been in previous
marriages when we came together.
(05:44):
And just um I think when we cametogether, it was great at the
very beginning, and then it fellapart pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
Started started a little bit of a decline.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
But we were both kind of seeking something, and
that's when an friend orsomebody who worked with Chris
kept asking us to go to church,and we or I didn't really want
to go to church.
Well, I wanted to go to churchdesperately, actually, but I
(06:23):
didn't want to go to where Ithought this church was.
SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
Yeah, that's a funny story.
She cat Kathy kept hearing theterm house church, and she
didn't have context, so shethought that this person's house
in that general area was thechurch, and she was emphatically
refusing to sit through churchin somebody's house.
I thought that was pretty funny.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Yeah.
Yes, until I found out thischurch was a massive church that
we went to, but we went to itfor the very first time.
Uh I wanted to make sure when wewent to it that nobody knew I
was a visitor.
I I just kind of wanted to rollin underneath.
Um, so nobody knew anythingabout me.
(07:05):
I didn't want anyone knowinganything about my business, my
past behaviors, anything likethat.
So I told Chris, we can't parkin visitors parking.
We have to park all the way inthe back.
We walk in, we sit in the back.
I don't want anybody to knowwe're there.
And it just so happens when wewalked in there, the guy who had
talked us into coming had beentelling people about us for
(07:30):
months and months and months.
They've been praying for us tocome to church, which I didn't
understand that when we firstwent in there.
But all these people greeted usand it was horrific to me.
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
She was mortified.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
I was.
But we proceeded to to sit inthe pew, and the pastor, the
senior pastor of the church,felt like he spoke directly to
us, and we we left there in apuddle, like we both broke down
crying, sitting in the pew,realizing we were sinners that
(08:08):
needed a savior.
And he rarely ever did an altarcall.
I don't even know if I we wentto that church from that day on
for years.
I don't recall him ever doing analtar call, but he did one that
day.
And that's when Chris and Irealized we needed to give our
(08:30):
life to Christ.
SPEAKER_05 (08:31):
Amen.
That's awesome together too.
You know, that's a lot of storyof that.
Being prayed into the kingdom,people praying for you guys.
Yeah, it's that's great.
It's pretty incredible.
Even though you didn't want togo.
So the Holy Spirit clearlyworking.
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
God knew best.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
Well, it's funny.
I mean, we talk about it when weshared our testimony during the
re-engage uh group as well, butuh the sailboat that we got
married on a year before?
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Uh no, no, months, only months before.
Months before.
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
Well, it's September, yeah, that's right.
Um, but the name of the boat wascalled the Soul Diversion.
And we kind of, you know, didn'tthink about that for several,
several years.
All of a sudden we looked at thepicture one day and realized
there's a there's a corollarythere.
SPEAKER_05 (09:12):
Soul was gonna be diverted in a big way.
Yes, indeed.
So very cool.
So you guys, and I know youshared kind of coming up maybe
more in a transactionalhousehold, not really uh kind of
that love that you mentioned,more of achievement, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
Kind of your parents looking for that.
SPEAKER_05 (09:29):
I think I'd heard you previously share, you know,
your dad being very academic andand a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Yes, very smart, but not very relational.
SPEAKER_05 (09:38):
And so we carry a lot of those things, the
definitions that we pick up fromprevious marriages from our
families, you know, it'ssomething we definitely see out
in the world.
So maybe, you know, you guys cankind of share and again turning
towards marriage, married, cometo Christ, you know, what are
the things, you know, especiallyas you started to see changes in
(09:59):
your marriage and understandinghow needing to redefine some
things and and kind of see howGod's love plays out in
marriage.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Yeah.
I mean, well, Kathy mentioned itearlier, right?
That our marriage, even thoughit was great at first, started
to degrade because it was allthe habits of the old, the old
us, right?
The the I'll call it the selfishlove versus the selfless love.
Um and we and that's a learnedattribute.
I mean, it took us a long timeto figure that out, at least it
(10:29):
feels like a long time.
We've been married a long time,so it took a while for us to get
into a pattern of behavior whereit felt like you know it was
less about us as the individual.
What do we get out of therelationship?
What are we expecting from therelationship versus how how
Christ views the marriage, whichis how do you serve the other
person?
How do you selflessly give?
How do you um show grace andshow mercy when sometimes those
(10:54):
are really hard things to show,especially in the relationship
of a marriage, because you know,the you know the other person
and the other person knows youbetter than anybody else on this
planet.
SPEAKER_05 (11:04):
Knows how to push each other's buttons.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
Yeah, I used to joke around, call it the chinks in
the armor, where you could justslip in the the poking stick and
just remind me that uh thatthat's a shortcoming.
And and this is an individualplease chime in, but you know
all those uh areas that arerough, say still still in the
work of sanctification.
And it's very humbling.
(11:29):
I I always say, yeah, they sayGod uses you to talk to me on a
regular basis.
And and he does, and I mean thatin a serious way as well as
joking sometimes, but um I hereveals a lot of things that
need to change through my wife.
SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
I think um the world teaches us that love is a
feeling.
You know, everything we read,everything we see on TV, the
movies that we watch orwhatever, love is a feeling.
So, like for me, I grew up thatlove was a feeling, you know.
And um, it wasn't until I becamea Christian that I totally
(12:07):
understood that love is achoice.
It's not a feeling, it's achoice.
You know, God made a choice, youknow.
John 3 16 tells us that God soloved the world he gave his only
son.
That's uh that for whoeverbelieves in him will have
eternal life.
(12:27):
But he he made the choice togive his son.
And so in marriage, when youunderstand what that true love
is, that God, God's love, thenyou understand that you have to
make a choice every day to loveyour spouse.
SPEAKER_05 (12:49):
And not just a choice, but a choice to give and
sacrificially, right?
Yeah.
Like you're talking about,Kathy, is getting outside of
yourself, getting away fromthose feelings of well, when I
feel it, then I'll give, or thenI'll choose when the feelings
(13:12):
move me rather than choosing inspite of feelings.
And I think something you weresaying too, Chris, like not only
do we know those chinks, but alot of times we see the worst of
we give our spouse the worst ofourselves, right?
Because we go around all day,we're happy at work and doing
our job, and then we get homeand we have like either no
energy or we're annoyed from allthe people, you know, and then a
(13:34):
lot of times our spouseexperiences that, unfortunately.
And so we say the empty bucket,right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Look, I mean, that there's abook that talks about how you
can pour into somebody theirbucket, right?
You take ladles and you'repouring in, pouring in
compliments, positives, youknow, the the accolades of why
you love that individual.
Um, and occasionally you saysomething that requires a ladle
to be pulled out, or maybeyou're speaking some truth in
(14:01):
love that requires a ladle to bepulled out.
Um, the bucket has to have waterin it.
So if you it's a balance, right?
That's where you're going withthat point.
Yep.
You got to be able to put stuffin to make a withdrawal.
SPEAKER_05 (14:13):
We have to fill each other up in marriage.
It's the purpose of marriage anda true love when we see each
other, you know, either emptyand we move towards, even when
it may be hard.
Like you say, it may be I don'twant to make this choice.
I'm tired too, but my spouseneeds me.
I'm going to, I think you usedit earlier, Chris, serve our
(14:33):
spouse in a in a way and interms of getting outside of
ourselves.
So how did that process look foryou guys?
I know, like I say, you getmarried, you know, not
believing, coming to faith, youknow, the sanctification that
we've mentioned, like how toreally redefine were there any
kind of critical moments or orjust kind of ways over time that
God helped you redefine thatlove of you know, kind of lack
(14:55):
of it in your family, Kathy, andyou know, seeing the feelings
aspect that our culture definesit, how or maybe some times or
ways that just within your ownexperience you saw that change.
SPEAKER_00 (15:06):
Yeah.
I think in the beginning, it toKathy's point earlier, it was
bumpy because we had a blendedfamily.
So we had two little childrenunder the age of, well, under
the age of five, three, when wegot to the city.
SPEAKER_01 (15:17):
Well, they met at two.
Yeah, two and a half.
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
And when we got married, they were five.
Um so that was that was a bigchallenge for us because you
know, parenting skills,different.
Uh guilt.
I don't want to speak for you,yeah.
Feelings of guilt, right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Yeah, we came together in an unconventional
way or really a sinful way,because we um, you know, I was
married when I met Chris and hadan affair with Chris and left my
husband for Chris.
And um so once we got married, Ihad guilt and shame terrible.
(15:56):
I mean, I took it out on Chrisafter we got married every day
probably, because I felt soguilty for what I had done.
And it wasn't until I understoodthat Jesus took the guilt with
the sin away that I was free ofthat guilt and shame.
(16:22):
It wasn't really until then,which probably was a year or two
or so after we got married,probably about that, that I
could start seeing ourrelationship as one that we
could please God, we could worktowards to please God.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
Yeah, yeah, and I think over the period of time
that that Kathy's referring to,from that point forward, it's a
continual work in progress.
Um it it becomes easier the morefocused we are on Christ.
I mean, we we always you hear metalk about the triangle all the
time, right?
With with Jesus at the top andthe with us looking at him, we
just naturally draw closer toeach other.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
And that that's been basically the story of our of
our Well, I think at first,first off, we didn't we wore a
mask around everybody we knew.
We didn't want anyone to knowwhat our past was like.
So they just thought we werejust this happy little family,
um, didn't know anything aboutour past, and we wouldn't share
(17:24):
anything about our past.
But God kept revealing to usthat you know what, you need to
rip off the scab in order totell your story.
And your story is what's gonnahelp other people.
So once we started doing that inhelping couples that were going
(17:45):
through difficult challenges intheir marriage and us sharing
what we went through, that'swhen our marriage started to
transform.
SPEAKER_00 (17:56):
Yeah.
And and it wasn't up to us toselect who were that who or when
or where God would ultimatelyput people in front of us and
cause us to share.
Yeah, we didn't want to share.
That was a door we were veryreluctant to walk through for
obvious reasons, what Kathysaid.
It was you know, something to bewe were ashamed of our behavior
(18:16):
prior to that.
And um, yeah, you know, like Isaid, nothing, whatever the
enemy intends for evil, Godturns it to good.
SPEAKER_05 (18:23):
So it's well, and I think something you said, Kathy,
too, that's so important inrelation to love.
Freedom from the guilt, but nowfreedom to love in a different
way.
I mean, we're not when we'reshackled to sin, you know, the
focus is on ourself, the guilt,that inward focus.
It takes Christ to turn usinside out so that we are now
free to.
(18:44):
You know, too many people want,oh, I want freedom from rules
and regs and whatever, but whatare you free to do?
And that's something that's sosignificant in coming to Christ
is now we are free to actuallylove other people in a
self-sacrificial way and notexpect anything in return.
You know, when you don't knowChrist, I'm shackled by like,
oh, if I love you, you betterlove me back, or the feelings.
(19:06):
I better get some feelings outof this, or I better get
something coming back my way,which is really enslaving,
right?
Because you're only going to actin such a way as to get exactly.
But when we're free too, this isfree.
I can just love and pour outthat same love that we've
experienced through Christ.
Like such an important theme inmarriage, you know, that we've
(19:28):
kind of talked about.
Sounds like that really startedto play out.
Like you say, it's not a lightswitch, unfortunately.
I wish it was, right?
You know, I mean salvationweirdness, but sanctification
slowly comes up.
But but yeah, and when we tellour story, I think we talk about
this a lot in marriage.
And when you know you mentionedre-engage, Chris, which I'll
(19:49):
kind of mention that at the endtoo, but so much the lie of
Satan is we're the only ones,right?
Like what you guys were dealingwith.
Like, we can't tell our storybecause everybody else is in.
Good shape, and we're not, so webetter not talk about it.
But we learn, you know, likewe've all been through things in
marriage.
We're all broken people, sobeing able to share our story is
(20:09):
so critical to encouraging andthat freedom to share our story
in a way that hey, I'm I'm notshackled to that guilt, so I'm
free to now share this in anencouraging way, I would say.
SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you'd be surprised howmany people we talk to who other
couples who who just thinkeverybody else isn't having
these problems.
And it's it's kind of a blessingthat we've been down that path.
I mean, it was rough when you'regoing through it, but be able to
take it and and feed intosomeone or pour into an
individual or a couple to remindthem that you're not you're not
(20:42):
alone.
You know, that's the enemy'slie, back to your point, eh,
right?
He just wants to make you thinkyou're on an island.
Don't tell anybody it's all you.
SPEAKER_01 (20:49):
Um but and you're only in the valley for a while.
Yeah.
You get to the mountaintop.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Exactly.
So it's uh yeah, it's a process.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
Yeah, I would say I know you might talk about
engage, re-engage a little bitlater or whatever, but one of
the biggest things I feel is anadvantage of the re-engage are
the testimonies.
Because that's where groups ofpeople get to hear, you know,
you see people and you think,like you said, they have it all
(21:18):
together.
And then you hear their storiesand you see how God's worked in
their life.
It's pretty amazing to sit thereand be a witness to listening to
somebody's testimony.
And then when you share in thegroups, people realize they're
not the only ones in thesituation.
(21:39):
That's that's the beauty of thethe group setting of re-engage.
SPEAKER_05 (21:45):
And I think that's probably why, you know, maybe
you can kind of share where Godmoved you to kind of start
helping other couples.
And I think that's why we neversay counseling is bad, right?
So I don't I want to make sureto be up front.
We're not saying don't docounseling, but a lot of times
if you're just going tocounseling by yourselves as a
couple couple where you don'thave somebody like you all, just
(22:05):
a counselor who's therelistening, you can get stuck in
that too.
Like it's just us and we got tofigure this out.
So exactly like you say, andwe'll talk a little bit more
about you know, re-engage thepurpose.
But when we're together andwe're encouraging each other,
and you know, I've had so manypeople where I'll talk to them
and just share things going onin my marriage, and they're
like, Oh, but you know, Ithought you guys were like this
(22:27):
perfect couple of them.
Not at all.
And if my wife is listening tothis, sometimes she listens and
I say this, I've said itrepeatedly.
Like, if I had a dollar forevery time we would have
struggles or arguments, andshe'd say, We're the only ones
who are dealing with this.
And I'm like, Well, that's alie.
You know, like I haven't been inministry that long, but talking
(22:47):
to enough people, like we're alldealing with things because
we're all sinners and we're allworking through the
sanctification and why Godbrings us into community.
What I love is really expressed,like you say, in groups, in
sharing, in encouraging oneanother, and how that plays out
in marriage.
So, yeah, maybe you guys cantalk a little bit about you know
how God's moved you to reallybe, like you said, premarital,
(23:09):
postmarital, pouring intomarriages, taking your story and
encouraging other people, whichis a I would say a loving thing
to do, right?
It's hard, like you say, it'spulling off the scab, it's not
comfortable.
We don't like necessarily havingto, you know, say all those
things, but how God's kind ofreally worked in you guys that
way.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
I think it started when we actually um became
Christian.
We jumped right in.
We we felt the urge to serveright away, and we jumped in
actually into children'sministry.
We jumped into the ages of ourkids, and we actually worked in
children's ministry all the wayup as our kids went through
(23:48):
children's ministry.
Through college, throughcollege, and we did college
groups, we would have them atour house and stuff, and it
really wasn't until thosecollege kids started getting
married that we then startedthey c they actually came to us
looking for advice.
And so we started gettinginvolved in working with
(24:11):
premarried and ones that havejust yeah, just gotten married,
giving them advice, and we lovedit.
And and we started then sharingwith them a little bit of our
background and kind of what wecan tell you is what not to do.
(24:32):
That's right.
So you know, don't make thesemistakes, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
And and that was like the beginning of the
premarital, early marriagestuff.
But as I started, I was pluggedinto men's ministry, as you
know, it back in the day.
And a lot of opportunities wouldcome up where just guys were
struggling in their marriage fora number of reasons, whether the
whatever the sinful behaviorwas, or the addiction, or just
(24:57):
the misunderstanding, and notbeing able to um love openly the
way that we're talking about.
Um that started to to reallyhighlight that there was a need
for not just the individual, youknow, woman-to-woman, man-to-man
counseling, but a a solidbiblical perspective of marriage
from a couple who has beenthere, done that, and had
(25:20):
victory over it, praise God, forhaving a relationship that is is
honoring him and and andsatisfying, happy relationship.
I mean, you know what?
Obviously, we don't want to comeoff as perfect.
We have our moments as wellwhere you know we can disagree.
But we, as I tell the couplesthat we meet with, you should
always be with somebody who youcan argue well with because
(25:42):
disagreement and conflict isgonna come, it has to for a
healthy dynamic in therelationship.
We're all not like you know,identical to one another.
But being able to resolve thatconflict in a God-honoring way,
is uh that and communication aretwo of the hugest components.
SPEAKER_01 (25:59):
I don't know if you yeah, I agree.
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (26:02):
And how do you see love really play into some of
that conflict resolution, thatunderstanding versus
misunderstanding we kind ofalluded to?
How do you see that play outwhere we have a misconception of
love, either self-centered orfeeling-centered, or uh whatever
the case may be?
How do you kind of end up seeingthat break up marriages when we
(26:23):
get it wrong?
SPEAKER_00 (26:24):
Yeah.
I I mean, I think pride plays alot into some of the challenges
with being able to love somebodythe way you want to be loved.
If you if you give, you know, itmay not come back right away,
but it at some point you shouldstart to see something easing up
in the relationship.
Um and even if it doesn't, thenGod's teaching you something,
(26:46):
teaching the other personsomething.
That's a sanctification process.
But I think uh you know, justbeing able to understand what
your spouse needs and seeking tos to help them first.
That that should be the selflessact of love.
I mean, Christ kind of livedthat out for us as a perfect
example, but that's how we evenknow what love is, right?
SPEAKER_05 (27:08):
I think it's biblically we don't even know
what this looks like if Goddoesn't show it to us because
just in our natural sinfulstate, you know, we just focus
on ourselves, you know, we'rejust trying to and the world
twists it to Kathy's point,right?
SPEAKER_00 (27:20):
The world's got a different definition of what
love is.
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
Yeah, I think in marriage though, there's love
and there's also forgiveness.
And I think um if you know we attimes will work with couples who
are having challenging have achallenging marriage.
And I think one of the thingsthat holds them back is the act
(27:46):
of forgiveness.
Like they can't forgive oneanother for whatever they need
to forgive one another and getpast that enough to then let
that relationship start torepair.
I think that's tough.
(28:09):
Forgiveness.
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
We use an exercise with some of the couples where
we give them a 10-pound weightand hold it up in their hand and
just hold on to that anger foryour spouse as long as you can
and see how tiring that becomes.
And and it it's a it's a realphysical representation of the
weight or the burden of back toyour point, unforgiveness.
And if you think about it, it'susually something I I don't want
(28:34):
to underplay anybody'sstruggles, but some most times
it's not it's not reallyimportant enough to hold on to
that.
It's it's really not.
It's more damaging and unhealthythan anything else.
And and we learn when we when wecan offer forgiveness and we
learn to love more effectively.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
Well, when we understand what forgiveness is,
you know, I mean what whatChrist did for us, yes, and how
God forgave us, um how can wenot forgive?
SPEAKER_05 (29:03):
Yeah.
That's exactly where I was gonnago with that is forgiveness and
love are you know, when we lookat God's love for us, involved
his sacrifice so that we couldbe forgiven, you know, had to
have that.
And I know we could play out,you know, the whole, and again,
we'll talk a little bit at theend in kind of the program, but
then forgiveness involves thatkind of change and making
(29:24):
amends.
But it starts with forgiveness.
You know, there can't be thatexpectation or focusing on have
to get something back.
Like, no, we have to forgive inlove.
You know, it's because of thething.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Regardless of whether we get anything from
that person.
I mean, we're just called toforgive regardless.
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
Wasn't there something during the re-engage
program that you kind of drewsome Do you mean the circle?
No, the circle.
It was around forgiveness andand like turning it over to God
to let God's justice system andand sanctification process work
that way.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Yeah, that should be free.
I mean, when we think aboutforgiving for an somebody,
forgiving our spouse for an actof sin that they've done or
yeah, committed, then it's justknowing that God is the one that
um is the judge in all of that.
(30:18):
You don't have to to be thejudge, it's actually freeing to
be able to forgive.
SPEAKER_05 (30:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
Because then you're done.
SPEAKER_05 (30:27):
Just like that weight you were mentioning
holding up.
And I've heard thatunfortunately in a few limited
you guys have more experiencethan I do, but a few situations
where a wife would say somethinglike to the effect of I can't
forgive him for this, and kindof more fully understanding love
and those uh in that situation,I'd be like, Well, if that is
true, like you're your yourmarriage is over, like you're
(30:49):
not gonna survive that kind ofunforgiveness, which is a
withholding of love.
Like if you're not willing toforgive, you're withholding that
self-sacrification.
You're making a choice not tolay that aside, I would say.
Let me know if you disagree withthat.
SPEAKER_00 (31:03):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
And and I lived through it whenI made some very poor choices
and took some very poor actionsthat that almost cost us our
marriage.
Um, but Kathy again demonstratedwell, it it could have, I should
say.
Yeah.
Um and should have, in contextof the the sinful aspect of it.
(31:26):
But again, Kathy showed graceand forgiveness, and uh that
that actually showed me a lotand taught me a lot about the
level of our relationship andthe dynamic that she can show me
through the the act of grace andforgiveness, and that that was
that was pretty impactful.
unknown (31:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:47):
It was really display, those are the times we
have to live it out, right?
You know, I've been through thatin my marriage too, where it
came to a point of like, yeah,you know, we put it on the table
and it's like, but I'm notperfect.
And if if we're really honestabout it, you know, like if I'd
have been a perfect husband,maybe that doesn't happen, or
you know, vice versa, you know.
So a lot of times, you know, andagain, kind of we keep
(32:07):
mentioning it and go into it,but like, you know, and
re-engage, week two, you'reyou're a broken person, you
gotta draw the circle aroundyourself and like focus on what
you can fix because you know,hold up the mirror and see how
that looks sometimes when youreally think about, you know,
have you been loving?
Have you been unconditionallyloving?
And most of the time the answeris no, you know, and I think you
(32:27):
mentioned the triangle earlier,like if your relationship with
God, you're not understandingthat love, yeah.
It's gonna play out in yourmarriage, ultimately, all of
your relationships, butespecially your marriage
marriage, I would say.
SPEAKER_03 (32:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
Yeah, there's um there's a lot of opportunity
there for couples to tounderstand how to speak to their
spouse.
And I'm and I'm not just talkingabout verbal, I mean the whole
picture, right?
What what is it that my myspouse needs to be uplifted?
What are their love languages?
What are um what are the thingsthat they need to feel for me?
(33:00):
And how do they see Christthrough how I'm responding to
them?
And I think that's uh that's oneof the things that lately has
been really evident to me in inrelationships, is how do I, as
the husband, how do I emulateChrist so that Kathy sees Christ
through me and not just againour marriage, but everything
that I do and say, whether it'shelping somebody across the
(33:22):
street shovel their driveway oror something, anything.
I mean, it could be the laundrylist of things, but that she
sees that living out in reallife.
SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (33:34):
So I think maybe kind of bringing it to, you
know, a kind of summary, youknow, what are the biggest
takeaways you would say,especially in your experience,
you know, how really marriageand love have to, we were joking
when we were setting this up,right?
Love and marriage.
They go together like a horse incourage, right?
You know, old song.
Don't ask me to sing that.
Uh no, we're not singing on thepodcast.
I that we leave that to Rob andthe worship team.
(33:56):
No singing here.
I'll talk.
But but yeah, maybe just kind ofshare, you know, how you would
kind of encourage anybody who'slistening, whether married in a
good place, not a good place,uh, how how you guys would
encourage everyone listeningwith that.
Maybe not married yet, but whatthey need to get right going in,
you know, kind of mentionedgoing in with the wrong ideas.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Wanna start?
Go ahead.
Okay.
Um, well, yeah, I think youknow, God is a reminder, God is
bigger than any problem that youmight run into as a married
couple.
I know it doesn't feel like thatat times.
Uh there can be moments during arelationship where, you know,
we've talked to couples wherethey're in some pretty dark
spots.
Um, and we were in one of thosedark spots on a couple of
(34:39):
occasions.
But like I said, God is isbigger than all of that.
And we just have to put ourtrust and faith that He's gonna
put people in our path to helpus out when when we need it.
Um and and just again being opento to receive information, to
receive guidance, to receivethat prayer uh and into their
(35:01):
lives as a as a married couple,so that they're they're getting
wise counsel.
Don't listen to the world,listen to to the Holy Spirit,
listen to the people that Godputs around you to to make those
decisions.
But I mean love love is veryperverted in the world.
It's a very broken over to useyour word, it's an overused
(35:22):
word, um, and nobody reallyknows what it is and outside
that biblical context.
So I my suggestion would beanchor yourself in the word,
anchor yourself with biblicalcounseling if you're in need of
it.
Premarital during the marriage,or even I mean, we have divorce
care and other things,unfortunately, those things
still happen in the world and inthe church.
(35:43):
Um but there's there's a lessonto be learned there.
God, God doesn't let anything goto waste as we've both lived
through.
SPEAKER_01 (35:51):
I think um too, Nate, you brought up community.
Community is so important.
Um I I really think that amarriage, a marriage can be
really good just the two of you,but it can be outstanding when
you have other couples that arepouring into you or you're
(36:14):
pouring into them.
They're holding you accountable,they're helping you see blind
spots that you might have,things, things like that.
I think community is just reallyimportant to help couples just
continue to love each othersacrificially.
(36:36):
I just think community is justreally important.
But forgiveness and love gotogether.
SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
So that's the part I think that's the part that we
enjoy the most about theministry aspect that we
participate in.
Being able to pour into thesecouples and to share our stories
and to help them.
I mean, we genuinely love thesecouples we meet.
I mean it it breaks our heart tosee some of the things that
sometimes some couples strugglewith.
But we we know that like I said,we serve a God who's bigger than
(37:04):
those problems.
We just pray him over it.
SPEAKER_05 (37:08):
The the width, the depth, the height, the length of
God's love can overcome if weallow that to dictate our
marriages.
And no, I love the communityaspect too, because something
we've kind of talked about withyou know, the lies that Satan
will say of it's only you, whichmakes you want to isolate,
right?
Like, well, I can't be aroundthese other couples because we
don't fit in, because theythey're in good and we're not.
(37:29):
And like, no, when we cometogether, we encourage each
other, you know, in those kindof ways of like, well, yeah, we
we dealt with that a while ago,or we're dealing with that too,
and let's talk about it, let'sbe honest about these things.
And that's a loving thing to do,you know.
We've kind of talked about that,what you guys do.
It's a sacrifice to step intoother people's situations, to
(37:50):
care for them, to take time topour into them.
So that's something, you know,when people have done that for
us, how can we not, you know,pay that forward and continue in
community to help each other?
So and I think that's a goodsegue.
Uh, we are excited, man.
We've been dropping hints allepisode.
Uh, you know, we are inDecember, but something we're
excited heading into 2026.
(38:11):
Um, we've been piloting aprogram, so we're excited we're
going to be starting a marriageministry here at Lifehouse
Church.
You know, specifically, whetheryou're a Lifehouse member,
you're in the MOT area, uh, andjust Chris and Kathy out of
heart.
Uh, my wife Ashley and I do,many other couples here as well.
Like you said, being incommunity to uh launch this
ministry.
It's called Reengage.
(38:32):
It's a great program.
Maybe you guys can comment.
You know, I think theadvantages, like you said, the
group aspect of it.
It's a 14-week program thatcovers a lot of ground.
Uh maybe just kind of talk abouthow these programs, you know,
they're not silver bullets, theyrequire work, but how putting
that effort into your marriageis really related to love.
So maybe you guys can kind ofgive your thoughts or
encouragement, something uh forthe Lifehouse family, keep a
(38:55):
lookout.
But if you are in looking toimprove your marriage, like I
say, we're never perfect, soalways something to be working
on.
So I'd love to hear yourthoughts as well.
SPEAKER_01 (39:03):
I think I love the re-engage program.
Um, what I think the audienceneeds to know is well, or they
are already do know if they'rein a marriage, is marriage takes
work.
I mean, we work on our we haveto work on our marriage and
continue to work on ourmarriage.
It's um it's just needs care andfeeding all the time.
(39:26):
What I like about re-engage isevery week there's a chapter,
and the requirement of re-engagewas for the wife to work through
the chapter separately from thehusband, but then they were to
come together and talk abouttheir answers to the questions
(39:49):
and the chapter before we met asa group, which I don't know that
any program you do that whereyou talk.
one another about your stuffbefore you actually come to the
group together.
I thought it was eye-openingthat all these couples that we
(40:11):
were in group with all workedwith one another ahead of time
and then they shared perspectiveabout what that looked like them
working together, talkingthrough the the questions
together.
I thought that was awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Yeah.
I agree.
The material was really good.
And um it was applicable on alot of different levels.
And I like how back to Kathy'spoint how it I wouldn't say it
forced the work to be done aheadof time, but it it did make you
have conversations about thingsthat you know like there were a
(40:50):
couple of topics we got ontowere like I didn't I didn't know
if that upset you.
SPEAKER_01 (40:55):
So hey put that put that down.
SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
I think we joked the first meeting we said oh we
almost got divorced over thatway yeah it was I wasn't that
extreme but it was definitelyeye-opening because it you know
makes you verbalize things thatare like just assumptions or
truths to your marriage and Ithink that questioned a few
things there.
But yeah good material uh goodconversations I think in the
(41:19):
beginning to your point it'salways a little awkward
everybody's kind of like youknow deer in the headlights um
but as we went through thetestimonies that were shared
some of the the couples thatshared that that raw testimony
in some cases um people becametransparent yeah I think that
really get give people anopportunity to say okay I can I
can talk about some of these asafe space right while dealing
(41:41):
with this and some things youguys brought out I would
reiterate too so much inmarriage in our culture and
society we get so busy too likewe don't have these deep
conversations.
SPEAKER_05 (41:51):
What I love about the program is like it forced
you like you say individually tobe in respective and then also
to have a deep conversation.
I mean too often in marriage youknow and guilty gets charged
here like we're just worriedabout oh you know you got to get
stuff at the store what's theschedule you know when we got to
be here when we got to be thererather than let's talk about why
do we have the expectations ofeach other we do.
(42:13):
You know we talk about growingup you know what you saw in your
home and that's what we carryinto marriage and a lot of times
we don't even think about thator why do we communicate have
the communication issues that wedo.
I don't know I'll text you laterwe'll find out so exactly right
so forgiveness like youmentioned like these are things
that we just need to haveconversations about a lot of
couples haven't you know andagain speaking from my
(42:35):
experience didn't really do goodpremarital counseling so a lot
of the stuff we hadn't dug outand so it's beneficial.
SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
I and just like a question how do I or like Chris
how do you know that I love youyou know and and hearing what he
has to say well I know you loveme when you do this kind of oh
okay you know it's just aquestion like that that you
don't even you just assume thatthey know what they need to do
(43:07):
in order for you to feel loved.
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
That goes back to Nate's point around
communication.
SPEAKER_05 (43:11):
Yeah I mean that's love languages, all those kind
of things but if we don'tprovognize and talk about these
things we miss it.
We start to have misplacedexpectations and and then that
lowers our commitment and yeahit's a it's uh it's a cycle.
SPEAKER_00 (43:26):
I mean there's a great book by Eggriches which
I'm sure you know with love andrespect where he talks about the
crazy cycle and just keepgetting back on it.
And yeah that's uh it's it's itcan be avoided with a little bit
of work.
Back to Kathy's point.
Marriage is hard work.
It's like if if your marriagewas let's say you've got a house
that's your biggest physicalasset.
You take care of it you makesure the roof isn't leaking the
(43:47):
walls aren't cracked the doorsthe windows are working your
marriage is much more importantand worth much much more than
your house.
So what are you going to investin that?
SPEAKER_05 (43:56):
Investing right I think it was the the last
chapter right like you need tobe continually investing.
And the day you get kind of lazyabout it is the day the cracks
are going to appear and thingslife's gonna start to get in the
way and Satan will get hislittle toehold because you're
not working towards you knowthat triangle that you're
talking about like towards Godand towards each other.
(44:16):
So but we're super excited to bestarting that next year.
So for our listeners, you knowwe do here at Lifehouse have a
big heart to pour into marriagesso whether you're in a good
place, I think it wasinteresting you know first week
you have to evaluate you knowit's like you know are you a one
to a 10?
And I I would even say it'sinteresting and I think that
through like you're probablybetter off if you're a five and
(44:38):
you're coming and you're workingon it versus you're a nine and
you're apathetic.
Yeah.
You know so I mean you you'reeither trending up or you're
trending down.
And if you're not working on ityou're trending down.
Maybe you don't know it yet butuh just an opportunity like it's
for everybody.
It's not just like you saidadmitting we have struggles.
Hey we all have struggles we canall work on things and I think
(44:59):
you guys alluded to it even forAsh and I we had some weeks
where there's some intenseconversations and things you
hadn't talked about before.
So I definitely encourage ourlisteners if you're interested
reach out to us more informationif you come here to Lifehouse
will be uh coming out we'reexcited it's kind of an ongoing
program so it's not like ifyou're not there week one you
miss the boat but something wetruly have a heart to uh
(45:22):
continue to help people getengaged re-engaged with with
that and improve their marriagebut well Chris and Kathy thank
you guys so much one for all youdo here at Lifehouse taking some
time uh to come on the podcast Iknow it's a sacrifice you guys
Chris is uh all over the placeand Kathy very busy with her own
business and and just so manythings that you guys do.
So appreciate your time uh justeverything you guys do to help
(45:45):
marriages and really just showthe love of Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (45:48):
So thanks for having us thanks Nate it was a
pleasure.
SPEAKER_05 (45:51):
So remember Lifehouse Family we love.
Show that love in your homes inyour communities and your
workplaces continue to uh takethat love forward and thanks for
journeying with us this month.
We will see you all next time tothe Life Talk podcast if this
episode encouraged you please besure to like comment subscribe
(46:14):
and leave a review so others canfind this content as well and
we'll look forward to seeing younext Monday for another great
episode
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.