June 6, 2024 • 49 mins
In this penultimate episode of Lightbringers, the Guy sisters continue to notice the moments and threads of season 6 that seem to point to a rushed (and self-amusing) writers’ room. From the unprofessional move of Linda’s book (why didn’t they just make it fiction?) to the disappointingly milquetoast Carroll, there are story and character beats that felt forced. At the same time, we deeply appreciate Chloe-as-audience-proxy in the conversation about how some people don’t have the choice to walk away from the fight against racism.
We spend considerable time thinking through the casting and writing choices surrounding Adam. What are the implications about the human species if the first man is guilty of toxic masculinity? Why cast a white dude as the first man? In the end, we realized regardless of our analysis, the choices the show made about Adam will have pissed of the right people (probably the same ones who boycotted Netflix because of Good Omens, even though the latter streams on Amazon Prime).
Regular listeners will be comforted to know that our appreciation for Tom Ellis’ looks has not faded over these many seasons, and in fact, Emily is adamant that Tom in a tuxedo shirt with suspenders is all she needs on her tv screen.
Our theme song is "Feral Angel Waltz" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
To learn more about Tracie and Emily and our other projects, to support us, and join the Guy Girls' family, visit us on Patreon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who
really love Lucifer for the plotyeah, the plot which they
overthink.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm here with my sister, Emily Guy-Burken.
She does not use a hyphen.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
And I am here with my sister Tracy Guy-Deurken.
She does not use a hyphen and Iam here with my sister, tracy
Guy-Decker, who does use ahyphen.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And together this is Lightbringers, where we
illuminate the deeper meaning ofthe crime-solving devil TV show
.
And yeah, we're overthinking it.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
So much.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And today, Em, we're getting so close to the end.
Today we're going to beoverthinking we're getting so
close to the end.
Today we're going to beoverthinking 607 and 608, my
best fiends wedding, and savethe devil, save the world.
So it's the second to lastepisode for us.
So these two episodes we've gotagain, as with so much of
(01:02):
season six, like the writer'sroom is just having a good time
and you know, more power, morepower to them for having so much
fun.
So in um my best fiends wedding, we've got the run up to Eve
and mazes wedding, the sort ofinternal, there's drama on two
(01:23):
fronts.
There's drama between maize andeve, precipitated by the
appearance of adam, and thenthere's also drama with lucifer
and rory.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So and there is um, I believe it's in that episode,
maybe it's in the one there is acoda to 606, the episode that
really took on the racism in theLAPD.
So when Chloe sees Rory's knifewings for the first time and
(02:00):
she's kind of scared that whatthat means that maybe she's
going to grow up feelinginsecure, unsafe and unsafe yeah
.
Yeah, she shouldn't return tothe LAPD, and I just I want to
highlight that moment becauseAmenadiel says to her like you
have a choice, not everybodydoes yes, yes, because I.
(02:22):
That was another thing that Ireally appreciated and feel like
this season is worth the priceof admission for that, for the
entire story arc, with Sonyaplayed by Aaron Dungy and
Amenadiel's response to Chloeand showing what it means to be
(02:45):
a white ally.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, as we said in our lastepisode, chloe serves as a
audience proxy for white viewerswho maybe didn't come to this
show for this kind of definitelydidn't come to this show for
this kind of thinking.
So, you know, bringing,bringing her along, brings us
along as the white viewer.
(03:07):
So, yes, yes, yeah, great,that's a great place to make
sure we get out loud for us.
But let's talk about Adam andthe appearance of Adam and the
appearance of adam.
So he shows up and he's verycondescending to eve, like it's
(03:30):
time to come home, and he keepcalling her babe, um too, yeah,
yeah, and the whole the arcbetween these two episodes.
we in the next, in the secondepisode, we say you know, dr
Linda taught me that I havesomething called toxic
masculinity and it's hurting metoo and like, on the one hand, I
(03:58):
sort of dig it that we'retalking about this out loud and
like calling it what it is aboutthis out loud and like calling
it what it is, and, on the otherhand, by assigning it to Adam,
the very first human being, itbothers me.
(04:25):
I prefer to believe that toxicmasculinity is cultural.
It's a thing that we've taughtand that we've passed down by
teaching.
If we say that Adam is guiltyof it, as in the first man, does
that then imply that it'ssomehow like baked into the DNA,
baked into the dna?
(04:50):
Yeah, I mean to play devil'sadvocate which I loved it, by
the way, when lucifer and Idon't remember which episode
says to play my advocate, but toplay devil's advocate on myself
.
Here, though, adam is clearlyguilty of it.
I mean.
No question that, that that'sunequivocal.
But we're also given to believethat he can change, overcome it
(05:11):
somehow.
I mean he still has work to do,even at the last moment.
We see him.
But there is an implication atleast I believe we're meant to
see, an implication that he cansee it and undo it.
So you know, that is a littlebit of more corroborating like
(05:31):
what, how I would like tobelieve toxic masculinity
operates in in human males.
But it's still I don't know.
Like and I gotta be honest, Ididn't see this in my first
round this is like in savoringit, in overthinking it, for
Lightbringers, I'm seeing it.
I definitely didn't see that asa thing when I watched this the
(05:53):
first time, but watching it nowto prepare for you, I was
definitely left with likeactually I don't want Adam to be
guilty of toxic masculinity,like it's fine that he and Eve
no longer are a good couple, ifthey ever were, but to assign
him toxic masculinity andgaslighting and just the gross
(06:21):
um underestimation of women ingeneral and Eve in particular, I
don't know, I find itdisheartening, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So that actually kind of dovetails nicely with my
reaction both the first time Isaw it and this time was wow,
it's weird, they have a whiteguy playing Adam.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Because I thought that the choice of Inbar Lavi as
Eve felt reasonable.
She's Israeli Life began in theMiddle East and while I think
Good Omens' portrayal of Adamand Eve, where they both like
(07:03):
dark skinned what we call blackfolks, makes more sense to me,
if we're gonna be likeoverthinking this, I could see
in Barlevy making sense, whereasAdam is like pasty, frat, bro,
total frat.
(07:24):
So that got me the first time Iwatched it.
Now, watching it this time, Iwas like, well, he's kind of
like the ur-frat bro.
And so of course, they hired awhite actor to play this toxic
masculinity gaslighting,terrible boyfriend dude, because
(07:44):
that's who they're lampooning,that's who they're like, what
they want to make the commentcommentary about.
And so, like, there's layersupon layers, because, like,
there's the like.
Okay, we don't want to make itseem like well, I'm assuming
that if they had this thought,who knows if they ever thought,
like we do in the writer's room,like, do we want to make it
(08:05):
that Adam, the very first man,had toxic masculinity?
Okay, if we're going to do that, like, let's not make him a
black dude, cause we're alreadylike, got some weird stuff with
race throughout this, so let'smake him a white dude, even
though that doesn't necessarilymake logical sense.
Like and like the.
(08:27):
Thing is they're going to pissoff the right people, no matter
what.
When Good Omens came out, Iremember Neil Gaiman was
responding to some assholes onTwitter who were just like part
of the woke indoctrination youhave Adam and Eve being black,
and that was when they started apetition to boycott Netflix
when it was on Amazon Prime, andI remember Neil Gaiman's
(08:50):
response to that was just likegreat, I don't really want you
watching it anyway.
So by doing all of this, thisstoryline with Adam, they are
pissing off those same people.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, yeah, bravo, yes, absolutely, Let are pissing
off those same people.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, yeah, which I'm bravo.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Let's piss yeah, yeah , yeah, let's talk about the um,
the actual drama of the story,though, like that's kind of meta
on some of the choices.
Let's talk about the drama ofthe story.
So Adam comes in, he's a jerkand then through some you know,
(09:30):
hijinks, shenanigans, weactually learn that Maze herself
was the one who, throughdifferent networks, like tipped
Adam off, that that they weregetting married in some sort of
self-sabotage, kind ofintentionally, because Eve had
(09:52):
had said something in an earlierepisode about how Maze would be
a good mother.
And Maze does not want to be amother and she knows she'll be a
bad one.
And and actually this, thisfits nicely with conversations
that you and I have had aboutthis season because of Lucifer
finding out that he's married,and we've had this conversation
(10:13):
actually in every one of ourlast three episodes apparently
one of my pet peeves, whichEmily doesn't remember from
episode to episode because wehave had so long between them,
but it's actually.
It's almost as if the writerswere retroactively listening to
you, em, in the way that Eve islike you don't have kids, fine,
(10:37):
yeah, you know, like it's just abig deal.
She doesn't try to talk her outof it.
She doesn't try to talk Mazeout of it or like tell her she's
wrong or somehow like think sheknows better.
So I thought that was veryinteresting to me watching it
with our conversations in mind.
But anyway, what I really, whatI really wanted to dig into is
this drama, around the layers ofthis drama.
(11:01):
So there's Maze's self there,there's maze's self-sabotage,
there's also, like that, theweirdness of maze who looks just
like her mother lilith, becauseit's the same actress who was
adam's first wife, about whomeve feels some, some degree of
(11:23):
jealousy or inadequacy.
At least I think that can beinterpreted, interpreted from
the dialogue.
And and then the scene.
You know where they're up inthe penthouse and adam is tied
up because adam has abductedlinda and maize pretends to be
her mom and is like talking toAdam as to torture him, but it's
(11:50):
actually torturing Eve.
It's so, it's so fucked up yes.
The word that was on the tip ofmy tongue, though, was contrived
, which is stupid to say becausethe whole show is contrived,
but I didn't believe that wholestoryline.
Like, not that maze doesn'tseem like a character that would
(12:13):
self-sabotage she totally does,but that particular way that
was actually torturing Eve, Idon't know Something about it
didn't ring true to me, or maybetrue is the wrong word.
It didn't ring believablebecause none of it's true, but
it just something about it.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Just it felt like again the writers having fun,
like oh what if we like have herreprise Lilith, but like as to
pretend, and then Eve gets alljealous, and it didn't actually
feel like the characters weredriving, if that makes sense,
yeah yeah, there were a coupleof times in these two episodes
where I was watching and I knewI was watching a tv show, if you
(12:55):
know what I mean where, insteadof it feeling like this is a
story that I'm invested in, itwas just like, yeah, those are
actors on a soundstage, you know, and I can't remember if we
talked about it so much inLightbringers but definitely in
our other podcast, deep Thoughts, about Stupid Shit.
I've talked about my feelingabout what writers owe to their
(13:16):
characters and one of the thingsis that I hate it when writers
solve their like write somethingthat solves a writer's problem
rather than that solves thecharacter's problem.
And that's what's going on hereis like this is solving the
writer's problem or, you know,tickling the writer, like they,
they, they are having fun withit, but they're actually they're
(13:39):
just moving the charactersaround like little cardboard
cutouts.
the characters are not doingwhat comes from within for these
characters right, right, yeah,yeah, I think that happens a
couple of times in these twoepisodes oh definitely yeah the
other big one that, um, wetalked about right after I saw
the episodes, and this hasbothered me this entire season
(14:02):
is there is no way that Lindawould write a book.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
At least not using his real name and stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And the real names of all of his friends.
And then refer to it aspossibly her most important
career, something or otherachievement I could maybe see
her doing that for herself, butthe idea of like, and then I'm
gonna publish it like, no, oreven like claim that it's
fiction.
Yeah, and try and publish it asfiction, and we've seen that,
(14:34):
linda has somewhat dicey ethics,um yeah, but like that is so
far a field of what isappropriate or realistic for a
dedicated and talented therapistespecially given that she named
it as, like her, like a careerachievement, the, those two
(14:57):
things I I agree, those are likethe thing with the
self-sabotage.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I my speculation is that the writers were like, oh,
zombies, we have to have somedemons, like in recently
deceased bodies, at the weddingfor ella to be like zombies are
real and and that, and so theyneeded there to be this, like
self-sabotage and this gesture,you know, like that, that was
(15:26):
kind of the, the joke or thestory beat that they were trying
to get to.
And then it was like this oh,and then, adam, can you know so
to me that that was like.
That's my speculation about theto your point about, about they
were solving their own problem.
The problem was how do we getto this grand gesture of some
demons coming up into the bodiesof the recently deceased?
(15:47):
But well, I guess they can'tget up.
I was just thinking like Mazeisn't in the body of a deceased
person.
Maze is not possessing someone,she's just there.
Why couldn't I mean?
It wasn't that many isn't inthe body of a deceased person,
maze is not possessing someone,she's just there.
Why couldn't I mean?
it wasn't that many Like ifLucifer was going to do it
anyway, why couldn't he just liehim up?
Lie him up one at a time?
(16:08):
Yeah, and the answer is becausethey wanted to have the moment
when Ella was like oh, and, bythe way, zombies are real, so,
yeah, anyway, so, yeah, anyway,okay.
(16:45):
So let's talk about I want, Iwant to make sure we talk about
the relationship with Rory andElla's having pieced it together
and the book, like the sort ofacted out scenes from the book.
Those are, those are threethings that I want to make sure
that we talk about before webreak.
What do you want to talk aboutfirst or next?
Uh, let's talk about rory.
Okay, let's talk about rory.
So in the last episode beforethese two, we had that lovely
moment where they connected overmusic and then this pair opens
with them on the facade outsidewith the most beautiful view of
(17:09):
Los Angeles it's available onlyto angels and pigeons and Rory's
still kind of like snarly, butit seems like maybe she's
softening.
And then later we see her atthe tailor where she really she
really was softening.
I think that was really.
I actually think that was welldone.
So much of this season is feelsrushed and, as we just said,
(17:34):
not driven by the characters,but driven by sort of the, the
desires of the writers.
That felt character driven tome.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Well, did you notice that what she is having altered
is the same outfit.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I did notice that she does not end up wearing, yeah,
but the red, the red velvettuxedo jacket.
I did notice because,especially because she had
scoffed at him saying that theycould get magic comer buns, yeah
, and then she did.
Yeah, I did notice.
So that actually felt sweet andbelievable to me and also the
(18:17):
fact, those facts, like the factthat she was kind of
coordinating and then he didn'tshow and that made her feel all
the more betrayed and andabandoned, that all really like
just gelled for me Mm.
Hmm, I'm not sure it did tellfor me that then the kind of
(18:39):
Resolution of that is the hershooting him.
I guess the callback was niceand it and it did serve a
purpose, sort of narratively,for him to kind of realize that
he, his subconscious and hisconscious could be synced.
(18:59):
But also, like I don't know it,just I felt like I was watching
a show.
I wasn't like in it.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
For that, yeah, that didn't bother me, didn't bother
you, much like it.
It did feel contrived, but italso was like after six seasons
I can kind of like I'll acceptthis contrivance and it was one
(19:35):
of those, as it happened, I okay, if you're looking for a grand
gesture like you, can't getgrander than that, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
And I have to say, when I watched it the first time
, I liked it.
It's only in this rewatch thatI was like I'm kind of with
Chloe on this.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, Well, it is.
I mean it's ridiculous, butthey are.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
They totally are.
They totally are ridiculousyeah.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I was a little more frustrated with Rory this time
around.
Like the first time watching it.
I know a lot of the fans justcan't stand her.
Like the first time watching it, I know a lot of the fans just
can't stand her.
And, like you know, some ofthat is like you are fighting an
uphill battle when you bring anew character in the sixth
season.
Some of it, I think, ismisogyny.
(20:32):
If she had been a son insteadof a daughter, I think that
people would have reacteddifferently.
I think that people would havereacted differently.
But I, I will say, like thistime around I have been a little
bit more frustrated.
Like I definitely understandher feeling betrayed with the
(20:53):
not him not being there thetailoring, but she had said no,
I'm not going to be there.
Yeah, yeah.
I think she's also supposed tobe.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I mean, she's older than she looks, she's older than
20, but you know longeradolescence I'm guessing for uh
celeste jolts and and in hertime, her mom's dying and she
doesn't know how to get back toher time and like, yeah, I mean
there are reasons that her sortof her mom's dying and she
doesn't know how to get back toher time.
I mean there are reasons thather threshold would be higher,
lower, whatever the rightmetaphor is Lower.
(21:26):
The thing, actually, now thatwe're talking about Rory and
frustrating things, when sheapproaches Trixie and says, did
you spike the punch?
I'm too early, and then issurprised by Trixie saying she
loves Lucifer and that he doesgame night, that didn't jibe for
me, although I mean I supposeit's possible that Trixie is
(21:49):
angry in the future too, becauseChloe can't tell Trixie either
about what's actually happenedand so she has to keep both
girls in the dark, and so oneimagines that Txie also is angry
with lucifer in rory's lifetime, and it just seemed unlikely
(22:09):
that there would be things thatwould surprise her in that way,
at least about trixie'saffection for him.
Yeah, I don't know.
It they don't feel like sisters.
They do not feel like sistersat all.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
And you know some of that is they're going to have.
What a 12 year age difference.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
At least I was just thinking about that this morning
.
Trixie's, she was nine, she was.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Oh, she was seven in 2016 first yeah, first season,
so yeah, 12 or 13 yeah, sothat's a that's a pretty huge
age difference and I get thatthat is going to affect, like
that's just a very differentsibling relationship yeah but I
(23:07):
don't know, I just no, granted.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I mean like trixie's meeting this adult who she's
never met before, who's hersister, but it still didn't well
that I feel like that wouldactually would be a very
difficult relationship to convey, where the adult who has
idolized her older sisterbecause she's 13, 12, 13 years
(23:30):
older than she is her whole life, is now meeting her as a 13
year old and trixie doesn't knowwho Rory is.
Rory knows who she is, butshe's younger.
But I can see where that wouldbe very difficult to convey in a
believable way and not likewriting, acting, directing.
All of it would be hard becauseit's it's not a thing that ever
(23:54):
actually happens.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, you can't really draw on that.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, there's no.
There's no life experience todraw on.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
At the same time, back to the Future, does a great
job of what it's like for thekid.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
True, I still think that's a slightly different.
It is, it is but yeah, you'reright, you're right, You're
right.
Okay, I'm right, okay, I'mwatching the time.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
So you wanted to talk about the little vignettes in
the second episode.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, where we see them acting out the book, which
really felt like the writershaving fun at their own expense,
frankly, and I enjoyed thatthoroughly.
Oh yeah, I mean I was it's thefirst person we talked to yeah.
Imagine that and like Ella'sshirt just says like cheerful
(24:50):
t-shirt or something like thatHappy t-shirt.
Like there were moments that Imean I wasn't immersed in the
story.
It wasn't like I wastransported by the story, but
rather it was total fan servicein a delightful and
winking-at-me-I'm-in-on-the-jokekind of a way that I really,
(25:14):
really loved.
I mean all of it Maze withCucuzzo under the desk like way
to go kakuzo and um button.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Dan's shriek when she throws the head at him.
Well, and then the.
Uh, like the fact that theyrefer back to what happened at
the was.
Was it the Mayan where the,with all the zombie demons like
it, looks like they died twice?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, yeah, cause we, even when we did our
Lightbringers, we were likethere would have been
consequences, what, what youknow.
So we weren't the only fans whowere like wait a minute now,
and so they gave us.
They like, yeah, they gave uslike a little wink, we know.
So that was really fun.
That was really fun, and evenlike the throne room in the
(26:12):
Silver City and Alice's hairlike plastered down with grease
or whatever, and the socks andsandals.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
And the socks and sandals and a white tuxedo.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Because that's what the socks and sandals is, what
Dennis Haysbert has worn.
Yeah, that was really fun andit was interesting too.
I actually thought this, thoughLinda having written it was out
of character.
There was something delightfulabout the back and forth where
(26:48):
Lucifer is like even my owntherapist doesn't think I'm
going to succeed was such aninteresting reminder that we're
all the protagonists of our ownstory and, like each, like the
imposter syndrome is just likelike a whole ring of people
thinking that they're imposters.
I found that really sort ofcharming, honestly, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I, in that second episode there are two
like.
So there's Ella and Dan areboth having like crises.
I don't know how I feel aboutElla's crisis.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, agreed, like why didn't you tell me like um
in?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
it obvious hon, yeah, yeah, and like I get the like
like you couldn't trust me withthis and like a little bit, but
except that, no, we can't trustyou with this.
It's not you, it's human beingsyeah, the fewer people the
(27:57):
better.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Too many people already know yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
So like it just felt odd and uh, I still like I get
why they have carol.
I I appreciate the intentionbehind the, the romance between
carol and ella, and the momentat the end where she's like it's
not my secret to tell and he'slike, okay was lovely.
(28:21):
I actually really liked that.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well, it was a beautiful model, but I still
don't believe there's zerochemistry between those two
people, like nothing, like onewonders if Amy Garcia and
whatever that man's name isactually even like each other.
There's so little chemistry.
I mean, it really was like, andnow I lean in and kiss you yeah
, it was just so.
Not, it wasn't even wooden.
(28:44):
They, they both like, I think.
I don't think they were badactors.
There just was no, there was noenergy between them.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
He's so milquetoast yeah, and like ella deserves
better than milquetoast, and Iknow that like the poor ella,
like they put so much on her aslike she ends up being the
expository vehicle foreverything, and like she's the
(29:20):
audience stand in and she, likeshe has a lot of heavy lifting
to do For one reason or another.
They just let her do that.
And I feel like that, like thewhole story arc of like oh, I
like bad boys.
And like, oh, it's so tough,just doesn't it never fit?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Never did it, never did, no agreed.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
It very much, whereas other aspects of her story I
think are great, like her beingso sunny and charming, but also
having this, like you know,these intrusive thoughts, this
darkness that she doesn't knowhow to deal with, and feeling
like she's like bifurcatedbecause she has, like she is,
both sunshiny and also dark, andnot knowing what, that felt
(30:07):
realistic and real to me, butthe romantic life doesn't make a
lot of sense to me.
I mean, well and like the thingis, even the Pete storyline made
sense, because it made sensethat he was attractive to her.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Pete made sense as a partner before we knew he was a
serial killer.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, and then even the serial killer reveal, and
part of it was how good thatactor was.
That also made sense.
And then the fact that it'slike it's center spiraling
because of her, what she thinksof as her darkness, like all of
that Great yeah.
And so like I get the writerswanting to kind of like give her
a happy ending, but she, Idon't feel like she'd end up
(30:56):
with a Carol.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
No, I don't think she'd end up with a white dude,
unless he was like big, likegeeky guy into into some of the
shit that she likes.
Otherwise he would be Latino orblack or like I.
Just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Well, and I just I think I see her with someone
who's a little morally ambiguous, you know, like not a bad
person.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, yeah, and the former addict.
The former addict is not enough.
Well, he is a former addict,he's a former alcoholic.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah, yes, he has.
He is a former addict.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
It's just there's, that's, but there was very
little about that storyline.
Like we we actually didn't getanything about that, we were
just told we weren't shown hismoral ambiguity.
We've never actually seen himbehave in morally ambiguous ways
(31:51):
, we only know that thathappened in backstory.
And even in backstory it's justsort of like yeah, he was
undercover for a year and he wasaddicted and then he went into
rehab.
That's the extent of the story.
Yeah, yeah, well, and I wasthinking like there's went to
rehab.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
That's the extent of the story.
Yeah, yeah, well.
And I was thinking like there'sa point where she he startles
her and she throws her champagneon him.
Yeah, and like, depending onwhere he is in his recovery,
that could be really difficultfor him.
And there's no like oh, I gotit all cleaned up, no problem.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, well, I mean, I mean again, like for our
writers, they just needed himout of the room while the whole,
and you and you're, and I knowthat you, yeah, he couldn't be
there for that, so he wascleaning up his shirt.
Yeah, oh, ella, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Amy Garcia, you deserve better and Ella, you
deserve better.
So the other crisis that I wantto talk about is Dan.
Watching this through the firsttime, the entire time I was
like, clearly, this is aboutTrixie, you know.
(33:01):
Like, dude, it's about yourdaughter.
And I mean maybe that's obviousto me because I am a parent and
the idea of leaving my kids atthis age it like would torture
me.
But even like at the wedding,he's like it's awful, I, I can
see my daughter, but I can'tinteract with her.
(33:22):
I'm like, yeah, it's torture,isn't it, you know?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
like well, he even says that at one point.
He says in a previous episode,he says take me back to hell.
I can't, I can't do this.
When, when lucifer tells himthat once you reach the mortal
plane, you became uh, whateverand immaterial.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
The idea that this is a big mystery to him, yeah, for
thousands of years.
Okay, maybe it's a big mysteryto him, maybe he's not very
self-aware, but it's a mysteryto Maze, whose job it is, yeah,
and who is close with Trixie.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that's one of those, like
we just have to suspend ourdisbelief that people don't
recognize Superman when he putsthe glasses on.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, yeah, I just I, I found that just kind of
frustrating in part because Danis portrayed as a good father.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So part of that would have to be some emotional
intelligence about parenthoodand and his relationship with
his daughter.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Or even if it's not, the emotional intelligence is
that you know, like like in deadboy detectives, like the truly
bad guys.
Don't worry if they're bad guys.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Uh, I mean we'll get there where we find out that you
know it's.
He is afraid that he was a badfather.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
No, I I know, but I think that he would be.
That would be the he would beaware of that.
That would be that's what Imean.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
That would be like oh God, I left my daughter and I
was a bad father and blah, blah,blah.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, and that's what I feel guilty about.
I think he would know yeah.
Yeah, I think he would knowyeah.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
So and like, okay, maybe he's just it's too painful
so he doesn't look at it.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, I mean that is that actually makes sense.
You know the way that Leedidn't want to go in the room in
the door, but Lucifer wouldknow.
Yes, Maze would know.
Yeah, yeah, because we are verypredictable human beings.
(35:37):
We think that we're so unique.
No one in the world has everfelt like we do, but it's just
not true.
It's just not true.
And Maze and Lucifer would know.
They know.
They know humans.
Yeah, yeah, they don't knowthemselves, but they know humans
(36:03):
, yeah, all right, was there athird thing that I said that I
wanted to talk about?
Linda's book and therelationship with Rory and Ella.
Figuring it out, maybe?
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Oh, ella figuring it out, yeah.
Yeah yeah, I feel like she wasbest placed to be able to figure
it out, in that she's supersmart, has an up-close personal
view of all of it and is aperson of faith, and so is more
(36:36):
inclined to believe that thisstuff is real.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Anyway, yeah, I think that I mean, we've talked about
it a little bit already, bothtoday and in previous episodes
like even some of the ways that,like in the last episode, or
maybe it was two episodes ago,where she talks to a meta deal
and she's trying to hint thatshe knows and he like acts like
he doesn't know what she'stalking about, and I don't think
(37:00):
that it would have gotten pasthim.
And then we said, but she ledwith her sock as, like the
reason that she knew that theworld was ending, and today we
talked about the fact that, likethere were things that just her
actual crisis like just didn'tmake total sense.
And also and also I want toqualify that like the specific
(37:22):
moments that she called out likeI held an angel feather in my
hand and you let me believe itwas an emu feather, and also Ray
Ray is the angel of death.
Like those two moments calledout, specifically, those I
believed those didn't frustrateme as like like the way that you
(37:42):
described I hear what you saidthat when she's like you
couldn't trust me, like yeah, ofcourse we couldn't trust
anybody, don't take itpersonally.
Yeah, like Chloe shouldn't evenknow.
But those two things, that thosetwo things specifically.
She was like what, the actual,like how, what, and like a
(38:05):
feeling of betrayal at havinghad this, those things kept from
her.
Those two things.
I was like yeah, that's notcool.
Especially ray ray, oh gosh,yeah.
So I just like those things I Ikind of wanted to name I think
I don't know I'm not sure whatpurpose it served narratively to
have her get wasted, like Iguess she needed the courage to
(38:28):
actually sort of confront themall publicly at once.
But I why?
I mean, she's, we've seen herbe very brave and she was
already kind of working towardit with a mena deal, like I'm
not unless she was frightened, Idon't know.
(38:49):
There was something about likethat, that her getting just
totally wasted.
That again I was kind of likewhat, why, what, why?
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Well, especially since she's dating a recovering
alcoholic.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, that's true, and he's there with her,
although I will say we have seenher.
When, having a crisis, she kindof turns to substances.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
True, that is true.
We have seen that before.
Yeah, though the one I'mthinking of with the bomb, like
her, life was in danger,although I guess she thinks the
whole world is in danger.
Yeah, okay, all right, thanksfor reminding me of that so I
mean not completely out ofcharacter yeah, okay.
(39:44):
Well, I guess those were thethings that I wanted to make
sure that I said did you?
Did you articulate what youwanted to make sure you wanted
to share with our listeners?
Speaker 3 (39:55):
uh, yeah, yeah, I think.
So.
You've said before that thisseason feels rushed, and I agree
.
You've said before that thisseason feels rushed, and I agree
, and I was trying to think ofwhat Linda could have that
wasn't a book, because I waslike you know, if she was like
you know what?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I've got all of my notes from the past five years
that could have had the sameeffect, but it wouldn't have
given her, like, an opportunityfor her to have a crisis.
I honestly, would have beenokay with it as a book If she
had said I'm like writing anovel based on you it's called
sympathy for the devil and youknow, like it's about the
fictional therapist to the deviland like, even like, gave them
(40:42):
different names chloe is zoe andyeah, you know, like dan stan,
yeah, something like that.
Like that, actually, I thinkcould have worked.
It would have not made me thinkless of linda barton, yes, and
it would have.
There could have beenadditional funny jokes in the
(41:03):
telling right, like to haveKevin Alejandro come out and
then I'll be like Stan.
I think that could have beenreally fun, and so I think they
could have even kept it as abook, but allowed her to keep
her integrity yeah, which I feellike they stole from her in
(41:25):
this, which is unfortunate.
Yeah, which is unfortunate.
So, all right, fluff.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
I have two.
The first is that when Lucifergoes to get Linda and-.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
The bra and the sommelier yeah, Excellent taste
in men.
It's like Linda, I love you.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Although I did find myself wondering, like who's
looking after Charlie?
Oh my gosh, where is Charlie?
Yeah, must have had anovernight babysitter.
Maybe Adriana was looking afterCharlie so that she could, you
know, really enjoy herself atthe wedding.
I hope so.
So that's, that was my firstpiece of fluff.
The second one did you noticewho the director was for the
(42:14):
second episode?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
No, I didn't.
Who was it?
Speaker 3 (42:17):
DB, woodside, oh cool .
Woodside, oh cool.
And which I think is part ofthe reason why he was absent for
most of the episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he gave himself the coolestflying away moment when he
jumps and twists in the air, thetwists.
I remember that, like from thefirst watch through I was being
(42:37):
like oh, that is freaking cool.
And, uh, ella's response toseeing the wing.
That's what it should look like.
Yeah, that's what it's supposedto look like.
I remembered seeing that andit's before.
I think that's part of the coldopen, and so it was immediately
after that as I'm watching, andI was directed by DB Woodside.
I was just like you go, makeyourself look cool, db, I am
(42:59):
down for that.
Make yourself look cool.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
DB.
I am down for that.
That is so funny, that's great.
So so those are my, my, my twopieces of fluff.
That's really great.
Yeah, well, I, I also waswondering where the heck Charlie
was, and and I and I also tooknote of the Somalia at Linda's
place.
So those, so we noticed similarthings on that score.
(43:25):
The other thing that I kind ofnoted that I think is both a
shortcut and also fan service,is the montage from previous
where Chloe's remembering allthe times that he abandoned her
or that.
You know things, things got gotintense emotionally and then he
(43:48):
left.
And then we see it again whenrory's reading it, and then we
see the montage of all the sweetmoments between them and all
the kind of the moments of trueconnection between them, which,
um, like, on the one hand it's atotal shortcut because we're
just editing together shitthat's already happened, and on
(44:10):
the other, in this final seasonof this beloved show, it like
feels like a warm hug.
So it was a both and for me onthose two montages.
So it was a both and for me onthose two montages Also, fluffy,
fluffy, fluffy did this, likethe changes in Lauren German's
looks.
I mean Ellis too, ellis too,clearly aged over the five years
(44:33):
I mean, but I don't know, Idon't Germans looks as her
character really softened fromthat season one where she was
all angles and severe, to thisfinal where she was much more
(44:54):
sort of soft and flowy, which Ithought was was really I hadn't
noticed until they put ittogether in that montage, you
know.
Yeah yeah, so that was somethingthat I noted.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
It's funny, like this isn't exactly a clip show, but
uh, you know, I remember in the80s every season of like
long-running shows would havemaybe not every season, but
every long running show wouldhave a clips episode.
And like they, they would, uh,the one that I remember being
(45:27):
the most like as a kid, goinglike they're really reaching
here and like, did the writersneed a week off?
Where the story, like the framestory for that it was Star Trek
, the next generation Riker getsbitten by something that causes
him to relive memories, and so,and I, I just remember being
(45:51):
like, uh-uh, like, I'll take theclip show.
I'm, I'm a fan, I like these,it's like the best stuff.
William reicher, I'm down withit, but seriously.
And so, like I find itinteresting, uh, like you don't
see them as often anymorebecause you don't have the 24
episode seasons anymore, where,like that's just brutal on the
(46:15):
writer, writers and the actorsand the rest of the, the staff
well, also the way that so muchis dropped all at once.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
It like it's harder.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah, it's harder for the fans as well, Like when
you're watching 24 episodes over24 weeks, you know, and you
can't go back and rewatch yourfavorites whenever you want to.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yeah, you know, but I also.
What gets me about this?
This one it's not exactly aclip episode, but it is like
very much the um, like in thespirit of that, and I feel like
they also watch the communityclips episode, where it was
flashbacks to things that we'dnever actually seen um, because
(47:00):
they kind of do that too.
So like we've got these scenesthat are not canon, that.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
So like, like what the?
Speaker 3 (47:09):
the scene between maze and dan in the car, where
they actually did have aconversation, but we're, oh,
canon version of it, got it,yeah.
And then the scene in theprecinct where Lucifer has that
giant desk and Cacusa is goingdown on Mays.
So they're kind of like takinga page out of community with
(47:30):
that as well.
Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
You know, I think those aspects are part of why I
say if Linda had said that itwas fiction, it would have been
more, given her more integrity,because it was already sort of
there, it was already sort offictionalized.
Absolutely yeah, interestingyeah.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
So one other piece of fluff.
I mentioned this to you rightafter I watched them.
I was like Tom Ellis wearing atuxedo shirt and suspenders for
an entire episode is something Ican get behind.
I mean, talk about big nose andbroad shoulders.
(48:09):
It's just like just stay on thescreen.
Just yeah, just there.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Oh man, it's just gorgeous.
Too funny, too funny.
Alright, well, we're almostdone, so I will see you next
time for the final two episodes.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
See you next time our theme song is Feral Angel Waltz
by Kevin Mccleod fromincompetechcom, licensed under
creative commons by attribution4.0 license.
Visit the show notes for theurl.
I am an artificially generatedvoice powered by narrakeepcom.
(48:58):
Luc Lucifer is a WarnerBrothers production that first
aired on Fox and then Netflix.
Tracy and Emily are notaffiliated with Fox, netflix nor
WB.
If you liked this episode,subscribe to keep overthinking
with them and visit the shownotes for other ways to connect.
Tracy and Emily are smart, lovable sisters who
really love Lucifer for the plotyeah, the plot which they
overthink.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm here with my sister, Emily Guy-Burken.
She does not use a hyphen.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
And I am here with my sister Tracy Guy-Deurken.
She does not use a hyphen and Iam here with my sister, tracy
Guy-Decker, who does use ahyphen.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And together this is Lightbringers, where we
illuminate the deeper meaning ofthe crime-solving devil TV show
.
And yeah, we're overthinking it.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
So much.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And today, Em, we're getting so close to the end.
Today we're going to beoverthinking we're getting so
close to the end.
Today we're going to beoverthinking 607 and 608, my
best fiends wedding, and savethe devil, save the world.
So it's the second to lastepisode for us.
So these two episodes we've gotagain, as with so much of
(01:02):
season six, like the writer'sroom is just having a good time
and you know, more power, morepower to them for having so much
fun.
So in um my best fiends wedding, we've got the run up to Eve
and mazes wedding, the sort ofinternal, there's drama on two
(01:23):
fronts.
There's drama between maize andeve, precipitated by the
appearance of adam, and thenthere's also drama with lucifer
and rory.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So and there is um, I believe it's in that episode,
maybe it's in the one there is acoda to 606, the episode that
really took on the racism in theLAPD.
So when Chloe sees Rory's knifewings for the first time and
(02:00):
she's kind of scared that whatthat means that maybe she's
going to grow up feelinginsecure, unsafe and unsafe yeah
.
Yeah, she shouldn't return tothe LAPD, and I just I want to
highlight that moment becauseAmenadiel says to her like you
have a choice, not everybodydoes yes, yes, because I.
(02:22):
That was another thing that Ireally appreciated and feel like
this season is worth the priceof admission for that, for the
entire story arc, with Sonyaplayed by Aaron Dungy and
Amenadiel's response to Chloeand showing what it means to be
(02:45):
a white ally.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, as we said in our lastepisode, chloe serves as a
audience proxy for white viewerswho maybe didn't come to this
show for this kind of definitelydidn't come to this show for
this kind of thinking.
So, you know, bringing,bringing her along, brings us
along as the white viewer.
(03:07):
So, yes, yes, yeah, great,that's a great place to make
sure we get out loud for us.
But let's talk about Adam andthe appearance of Adam and the
appearance of adam.
So he shows up and he's verycondescending to eve, like it's
(03:30):
time to come home, and he keepcalling her babe, um too, yeah,
yeah, and the whole the arcbetween these two episodes.
we in the next, in the secondepisode, we say you know, dr
Linda taught me that I havesomething called toxic
masculinity and it's hurting metoo and like, on the one hand, I
(03:58):
sort of dig it that we'retalking about this out loud and
like calling it what it is aboutthis out loud and like calling
it what it is, and, on the otherhand, by assigning it to Adam,
the very first human being, itbothers me.
(04:25):
I prefer to believe that toxicmasculinity is cultural.
It's a thing that we've taughtand that we've passed down by
teaching.
If we say that Adam is guiltyof it, as in the first man, does
that then imply that it'ssomehow like baked into the DNA,
baked into the dna?
(04:50):
Yeah, I mean to play devil'sadvocate which I loved it, by
the way, when lucifer and Idon't remember which episode
says to play my advocate, but toplay devil's advocate on myself
.
Here, though, adam is clearlyguilty of it.
I mean.
No question that, that that'sunequivocal.
But we're also given to believethat he can change, overcome it
(05:11):
somehow.
I mean he still has work to do,even at the last moment.
We see him.
But there is an implication atleast I believe we're meant to
see, an implication that he cansee it and undo it.
So you know, that is a littlebit of more corroborating like
(05:31):
what, how I would like tobelieve toxic masculinity
operates in in human males.
But it's still I don't know.
Like and I gotta be honest, Ididn't see this in my first
round this is like in savoringit, in overthinking it, for
Lightbringers, I'm seeing it.
I definitely didn't see that asa thing when I watched this the
(05:53):
first time, but watching it nowto prepare for you, I was
definitely left with likeactually I don't want Adam to be
guilty of toxic masculinity,like it's fine that he and Eve
no longer are a good couple, ifthey ever were, but to assign
him toxic masculinity andgaslighting and just the gross
(06:21):
um underestimation of women ingeneral and Eve in particular, I
don't know, I find itdisheartening, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So that actually kind of dovetails nicely with my
reaction both the first time Isaw it and this time was wow,
it's weird, they have a whiteguy playing Adam.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Because I thought that the choice of Inbar Lavi as
Eve felt reasonable.
She's Israeli Life began in theMiddle East and while I think
Good Omens' portrayal of Adamand Eve, where they both like
(07:03):
dark skinned what we call blackfolks, makes more sense to me,
if we're gonna be likeoverthinking this, I could see
in Barlevy making sense, whereasAdam is like pasty, frat, bro,
total frat.
(07:24):
So that got me the first time Iwatched it.
Now, watching it this time, Iwas like, well, he's kind of
like the ur-frat bro.
And so of course, they hired awhite actor to play this toxic
masculinity gaslighting,terrible boyfriend dude, because
(07:44):
that's who they're lampooning,that's who they're like, what
they want to make the commentcommentary about.
And so, like, there's layersupon layers, because, like,
there's the like.
Okay, we don't want to make itseem like well, I'm assuming
that if they had this thought,who knows if they ever thought,
like we do in the writer's room,like, do we want to make it
(08:05):
that Adam, the very first man,had toxic masculinity?
Okay, if we're going to do that, like, let's not make him a
black dude, cause we're alreadylike, got some weird stuff with
race throughout this, so let'smake him a white dude, even
though that doesn't necessarilymake logical sense.
Like and like the.
(08:27):
Thing is they're going to pissoff the right people, no matter
what.
When Good Omens came out, Iremember Neil Gaiman was
responding to some assholes onTwitter who were just like part
of the woke indoctrination youhave Adam and Eve being black,
and that was when they started apetition to boycott Netflix
when it was on Amazon Prime, andI remember Neil Gaiman's
(08:50):
response to that was just likegreat, I don't really want you
watching it anyway.
So by doing all of this, thisstoryline with Adam, they are
pissing off those same people.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, yeah, bravo, yes, absolutely, Let are pissing
off those same people.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, yeah, which I'm bravo.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Let's piss yeah, yeah , yeah, let's talk about the um,
the actual drama of the story,though, like that's kind of meta
on some of the choices.
Let's talk about the drama ofthe story.
So Adam comes in, he's a jerkand then through some you know,
(09:30):
hijinks, shenanigans, weactually learn that Maze herself
was the one who, throughdifferent networks, like tipped
Adam off, that that they weregetting married in some sort of
self-sabotage, kind ofintentionally, because Eve had
(09:52):
had said something in an earlierepisode about how Maze would be
a good mother.
And Maze does not want to be amother and she knows she'll be a
bad one.
And and actually this, thisfits nicely with conversations
that you and I have had aboutthis season because of Lucifer
finding out that he's married,and we've had this conversation
(10:13):
actually in every one of ourlast three episodes apparently
one of my pet peeves, whichEmily doesn't remember from
episode to episode because wehave had so long between them,
but it's actually.
It's almost as if the writerswere retroactively listening to
you, em, in the way that Eve islike you don't have kids, fine,
(10:37):
yeah, you know, like it's just abig deal.
She doesn't try to talk her outof it.
She doesn't try to talk Mazeout of it or like tell her she's
wrong or somehow like think sheknows better.
So I thought that was veryinteresting to me watching it
with our conversations in mind.
But anyway, what I really, whatI really wanted to dig into is
this drama, around the layers ofthis drama.
(11:01):
So there's Maze's self there,there's maze's self-sabotage,
there's also, like that, theweirdness of maze who looks just
like her mother lilith, becauseit's the same actress who was
adam's first wife, about whomeve feels some, some degree of
(11:23):
jealousy or inadequacy.
At least I think that can beinterpreted, interpreted from
the dialogue.
And and then the scene.
You know where they're up inthe penthouse and adam is tied
up because adam has abductedlinda and maize pretends to be
her mom and is like talking toAdam as to torture him, but it's
(11:50):
actually torturing Eve.
It's so, it's so fucked up yes.
The word that was on the tip ofmy tongue, though, was contrived
, which is stupid to say becausethe whole show is contrived,
but I didn't believe that wholestoryline.
Like, not that maze doesn'tseem like a character that would
(12:13):
self-sabotage she totally does,but that particular way that
was actually torturing Eve, Idon't know Something about it
didn't ring true to me, or maybetrue is the wrong word.
It didn't ring believablebecause none of it's true, but
it just something about it.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Just it felt like again the writers having fun,
like oh what if we like have herreprise Lilith, but like as to
pretend, and then Eve gets alljealous, and it didn't actually
feel like the characters weredriving, if that makes sense,
yeah yeah, there were a coupleof times in these two episodes
where I was watching and I knewI was watching a tv show, if you
(12:55):
know what I mean where, insteadof it feeling like this is a
story that I'm invested in, itwas just like, yeah, those are
actors on a soundstage, you know, and I can't remember if we
talked about it so much inLightbringers but definitely in
our other podcast, deep Thoughts, about Stupid Shit.
I've talked about my feelingabout what writers owe to their
(13:16):
characters and one of the thingsis that I hate it when writers
solve their like write somethingthat solves a writer's problem
rather than that solves thecharacter's problem.
And that's what's going on hereis like this is solving the
writer's problem or, you know,tickling the writer, like they,
they, they are having fun withit, but they're actually they're
(13:39):
just moving the charactersaround like little cardboard
cutouts.
the characters are not doingwhat comes from within for these
characters right, right, yeah,yeah, I think that happens a
couple of times in these twoepisodes oh definitely yeah the
other big one that, um, wetalked about right after I saw
the episodes, and this hasbothered me this entire season
(14:02):
is there is no way that Lindawould write a book.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
At least not using his real name and stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And the real names of all of his friends.
And then refer to it aspossibly her most important
career, something or otherachievement I could maybe see
her doing that for herself, butthe idea of like, and then I'm
gonna publish it like, no, oreven like claim that it's
fiction.
Yeah, and try and publish it asfiction, and we've seen that,
(14:34):
linda has somewhat dicey ethics,um yeah, but like that is so
far a field of what isappropriate or realistic for a
dedicated and talented therapistespecially given that she named
it as, like her, like a careerachievement, the, those two
(14:57):
things I I agree, those are likethe thing with the
self-sabotage.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I my speculation is that the writers were like, oh,
zombies, we have to have somedemons, like in recently
deceased bodies, at the weddingfor ella to be like zombies are
real and and that, and so theyneeded there to be this, like
self-sabotage and this gesture,you know, like that, that was
(15:26):
kind of the, the joke or thestory beat that they were trying
to get to.
And then it was like this oh,and then, adam, can you know so
to me that that was like.
That's my speculation about theto your point about, about they
were solving their own problem.
The problem was how do we getto this grand gesture of some
demons coming up into the bodiesof the recently deceased?
(15:47):
But well, I guess they can'tget up.
I was just thinking like Mazeisn't in the body of a deceased
person.
Maze is not possessing someone,she's just there.
Why couldn't I mean?
It wasn't that many isn't inthe body of a deceased person,
maze is not possessing someone,she's just there.
Why couldn't I mean?
it wasn't that many Like ifLucifer was going to do it
anyway, why couldn't he just liehim up?
Lie him up one at a time?
(16:08):
Yeah, and the answer is becausethey wanted to have the moment
when Ella was like oh, and, bythe way, zombies are real, so,
yeah, anyway, so, yeah, anyway,okay.
(16:45):
So let's talk about I want, Iwant to make sure we talk about
the relationship with Rory andElla's having pieced it together
and the book, like the sort ofacted out scenes from the book.
Those are, those are threethings that I want to make sure
that we talk about before webreak.
What do you want to talk aboutfirst or next?
Uh, let's talk about rory.
Okay, let's talk about rory.
So in the last episode beforethese two, we had that lovely
moment where they connected overmusic and then this pair opens
with them on the facade outsidewith the most beautiful view of
(17:09):
Los Angeles it's available onlyto angels and pigeons and Rory's
still kind of like snarly, butit seems like maybe she's
softening.
And then later we see her atthe tailor where she really she
really was softening.
I think that was really.
I actually think that was welldone.
So much of this season is feelsrushed and, as we just said,
(17:34):
not driven by the characters,but driven by sort of the, the
desires of the writers.
That felt character driven tome.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Well, did you notice that what she is having altered
is the same outfit.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I did notice that she does not end up wearing, yeah,
but the red, the red velvettuxedo jacket.
I did notice because,especially because she had
scoffed at him saying that theycould get magic comer buns, yeah
, and then she did.
Yeah, I did notice.
So that actually felt sweet andbelievable to me and also the
(18:17):
fact, those facts, like the factthat she was kind of
coordinating and then he didn'tshow and that made her feel all
the more betrayed and andabandoned, that all really like
just gelled for me Mm.
Hmm, I'm not sure it did tellfor me that then the kind of
(18:39):
Resolution of that is the hershooting him.
I guess the callback was niceand it and it did serve a
purpose, sort of narratively,for him to kind of realize that
he, his subconscious and hisconscious could be synced.
(18:59):
But also, like I don't know it,just I felt like I was watching
a show.
I wasn't like in it.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
For that, yeah, that didn't bother me, didn't bother
you, much like it.
It did feel contrived, but italso was like after six seasons
I can kind of like I'll acceptthis contrivance and it was one
(19:35):
of those, as it happened, I okay, if you're looking for a grand
gesture like you, can't getgrander than that, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
And I have to say, when I watched it the first time
, I liked it.
It's only in this rewatch thatI was like I'm kind of with
Chloe on this.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, Well, it is.
I mean it's ridiculous, butthey are.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
They totally are.
They totally are ridiculousyeah.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I was a little more frustrated with Rory this time
around.
Like the first time watching it.
I know a lot of the fans justcan't stand her.
Like the first time watching it, I know a lot of the fans just
can't stand her.
And, like you know, some ofthat is like you are fighting an
uphill battle when you bring anew character in the sixth
season.
Some of it, I think, ismisogyny.
(20:32):
If she had been a son insteadof a daughter, I think that
people would have reacteddifferently.
I think that people would havereacted differently.
But I, I will say, like thistime around I have been a little
bit more frustrated.
Like I definitely understandher feeling betrayed with the
(20:53):
not him not being there thetailoring, but she had said no,
I'm not going to be there.
Yeah, yeah.
I think she's also supposed tobe.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I mean, she's older than she looks, she's older than
20, but you know longeradolescence I'm guessing for uh
celeste jolts and and in hertime, her mom's dying and she
doesn't know how to get back toher time and like, yeah, I mean
there are reasons that her sortof her mom's dying and she
doesn't know how to get back toher time.
I mean there are reasons thather threshold would be higher,
lower, whatever the rightmetaphor is Lower.
(21:26):
The thing, actually, now thatwe're talking about Rory and
frustrating things, when sheapproaches Trixie and says, did
you spike the punch?
I'm too early, and then issurprised by Trixie saying she
loves Lucifer and that he doesgame night, that didn't jibe for
me, although I mean I supposeit's possible that Trixie is
(21:49):
angry in the future too, becauseChloe can't tell Trixie either
about what's actually happenedand so she has to keep both
girls in the dark, and so oneimagines that Txie also is angry
with lucifer in rory's lifetime, and it just seemed unlikely
(22:09):
that there would be things thatwould surprise her in that way,
at least about trixie'saffection for him.
Yeah, I don't know.
It they don't feel like sisters.
They do not feel like sistersat all.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
And you know some of that is they're going to have.
What a 12 year age difference.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
At least I was just thinking about that this morning
.
Trixie's, she was nine, she was.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Oh, she was seven in 2016 first yeah, first season,
so yeah, 12 or 13 yeah, sothat's a that's a pretty huge
age difference and I get thatthat is going to affect, like
that's just a very differentsibling relationship yeah but I
(23:07):
don't know, I just no, granted.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I mean like trixie's meeting this adult who she's
never met before, who's hersister, but it still didn't well
that I feel like that wouldactually would be a very
difficult relationship to convey, where the adult who has
idolized her older sisterbecause she's 13, 12, 13 years
(23:30):
older than she is her whole life, is now meeting her as a 13
year old and trixie doesn't knowwho Rory is.
Rory knows who she is, butshe's younger.
But I can see where that wouldbe very difficult to convey in a
believable way and not likewriting, acting, directing.
All of it would be hard becauseit's it's not a thing that ever
(23:54):
actually happens.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, you can't really draw on that.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, there's no.
There's no life experience todraw on.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
At the same time, back to the Future, does a great
job of what it's like for thekid.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
True, I still think that's a slightly different.
It is, it is but yeah, you'reright, you're right, You're
right.
Okay, I'm right, okay, I'mwatching the time.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
So you wanted to talk about the little vignettes in
the second episode.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, where we see them acting out the book, which
really felt like the writershaving fun at their own expense,
frankly, and I enjoyed thatthoroughly.
Oh yeah, I mean I was it's thefirst person we talked to yeah.
Imagine that and like Ella'sshirt just says like cheerful
(24:50):
t-shirt or something like thatHappy t-shirt.
Like there were moments that Imean I wasn't immersed in the
story.
It wasn't like I wastransported by the story, but
rather it was total fan servicein a delightful and
winking-at-me-I'm-in-on-the-jokekind of a way that I really,
(25:14):
really loved.
I mean all of it Maze withCucuzzo under the desk like way
to go kakuzo and um button.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Dan's shriek when she throws the head at him.
Well, and then the.
Uh, like the fact that theyrefer back to what happened at
the was.
Was it the Mayan where the,with all the zombie demons like
it, looks like they died twice?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, yeah, cause we, even when we did our
Lightbringers, we were likethere would have been
consequences, what, what youknow.
So we weren't the only fans whowere like wait a minute now,
and so they gave us.
They like, yeah, they gave uslike a little wink, we know.
So that was really fun.
That was really fun, and evenlike the throne room in the
(26:12):
Silver City and Alice's hairlike plastered down with grease
or whatever, and the socks andsandals.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
And the socks and sandals and a white tuxedo.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Because that's what the socks and sandals is, what
Dennis Haysbert has worn.
Yeah, that was really fun andit was interesting too.
I actually thought this, thoughLinda having written it was out
of character.
There was something delightfulabout the back and forth where
(26:48):
Lucifer is like even my owntherapist doesn't think I'm
going to succeed was such aninteresting reminder that we're
all the protagonists of our ownstory and, like each, like the
imposter syndrome is just likelike a whole ring of people
thinking that they're imposters.
I found that really sort ofcharming, honestly, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I, in that second episode there are two
like.
So there's Ella and Dan areboth having like crises.
I don't know how I feel aboutElla's crisis.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, agreed, like why didn't you tell me like um
in?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
it obvious hon, yeah, yeah, and like I get the like
like you couldn't trust me withthis and like a little bit, but
except that, no, we can't trustyou with this.
It's not you, it's human beingsyeah, the fewer people the
(27:57):
better.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Too many people already know yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
So like it just felt odd and uh, I still like I get
why they have carol.
I I appreciate the intentionbehind the, the romance between
carol and ella, and the momentat the end where she's like it's
not my secret to tell and he'slike, okay was lovely.
(28:21):
I actually really liked that.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well, it was a beautiful model, but I still
don't believe there's zerochemistry between those two
people, like nothing, like onewonders if Amy Garcia and
whatever that man's name isactually even like each other.
There's so little chemistry.
I mean, it really was like, andnow I lean in and kiss you yeah
, it was just so.
Not, it wasn't even wooden.
(28:44):
They, they both like, I think.
I don't think they were badactors.
There just was no, there was noenergy between them.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
He's so milquetoast yeah, and like ella deserves
better than milquetoast, and Iknow that like the poor ella,
like they put so much on her aslike she ends up being the
expository vehicle foreverything, and like she's the
(29:20):
audience stand in and she, likeshe has a lot of heavy lifting
to do For one reason or another.
They just let her do that.
And I feel like that, like thewhole story arc of like oh, I
like bad boys.
And like, oh, it's so tough,just doesn't it never fit?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Never did it, never did, no agreed.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
It very much, whereas other aspects of her story I
think are great, like her beingso sunny and charming, but also
having this, like you know,these intrusive thoughts, this
darkness that she doesn't knowhow to deal with, and feeling
like she's like bifurcatedbecause she has, like she is,
both sunshiny and also dark, andnot knowing what, that felt
(30:07):
realistic and real to me, butthe romantic life doesn't make a
lot of sense to me.
I mean, well and like the thingis, even the Pete storyline made
sense, because it made sensethat he was attractive to her.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Pete made sense as a partner before we knew he was a
serial killer.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, and then even the serial killer reveal, and
part of it was how good thatactor was.
That also made sense.
And then the fact that it'slike it's center spiraling
because of her, what she thinksof as her darkness, like all of
that Great yeah.
And so like I get the writerswanting to kind of like give her
a happy ending, but she, Idon't feel like she'd end up
(30:56):
with a Carol.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
No, I don't think she'd end up with a white dude,
unless he was like big, likegeeky guy into into some of the
shit that she likes.
Otherwise he would be Latino orblack or like I.
Just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Well, and I just I think I see her with someone
who's a little morally ambiguous, you know, like not a bad
person.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, yeah, and the former addict.
The former addict is not enough.
Well, he is a former addict,he's a former alcoholic.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah, yes, he has.
He is a former addict.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
It's just there's, that's, but there was very
little about that storyline.
Like we we actually didn't getanything about that, we were
just told we weren't shown hismoral ambiguity.
We've never actually seen himbehave in morally ambiguous ways
(31:51):
, we only know that thathappened in backstory.
And even in backstory it's justsort of like yeah, he was
undercover for a year and he wasaddicted and then he went into
rehab.
That's the extent of the story.
Yeah, yeah, well, and I wasthinking like there's went to
rehab.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
That's the extent of the story.
Yeah, yeah, well.
And I was thinking like there'sa point where she he startles
her and she throws her champagneon him.
Yeah, and like, depending onwhere he is in his recovery,
that could be really difficultfor him.
And there's no like oh, I gotit all cleaned up, no problem.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, well, I mean, I mean again, like for our
writers, they just needed himout of the room while the whole,
and you and you're, and I knowthat you, yeah, he couldn't be
there for that, so he wascleaning up his shirt.
Yeah, oh, ella, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Amy Garcia, you deserve better and Ella, you
deserve better.
So the other crisis that I wantto talk about is Dan.
Watching this through the firsttime, the entire time I was
like, clearly, this is aboutTrixie, you know.
(33:01):
Like, dude, it's about yourdaughter.
And I mean maybe that's obviousto me because I am a parent and
the idea of leaving my kids atthis age it like would torture
me.
But even like at the wedding,he's like it's awful, I, I can
see my daughter, but I can'tinteract with her.
(33:22):
I'm like, yeah, it's torture,isn't it, you know?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
like well, he even says that at one point.
He says in a previous episode,he says take me back to hell.
I can't, I can't do this.
When, when lucifer tells himthat once you reach the mortal
plane, you became uh, whateverand immaterial.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
The idea that this is a big mystery to him, yeah, for
thousands of years.
Okay, maybe it's a big mysteryto him, maybe he's not very
self-aware, but it's a mysteryto Maze, whose job it is, yeah,
and who is close with Trixie.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that's one of those, like
we just have to suspend ourdisbelief that people don't
recognize Superman when he putsthe glasses on.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, yeah, I just I, I found that just kind of
frustrating in part because Danis portrayed as a good father.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So part of that would have to be some emotional
intelligence about parenthoodand and his relationship with
his daughter.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Or even if it's not, the emotional intelligence is
that you know, like like in deadboy detectives, like the truly
bad guys.
Don't worry if they're bad guys.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Uh, I mean we'll get there where we find out that you
know it's.
He is afraid that he was a badfather.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
No, I I know, but I think that he would be.
That would be the he would beaware of that.
That would be that's what Imean.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
That would be like oh God, I left my daughter and I
was a bad father and blah, blah,blah.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, and that's what I feel guilty about.
I think he would know yeah.
Yeah, I think he would knowyeah.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
So and like, okay, maybe he's just it's too painful
so he doesn't look at it.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, I mean that is that actually makes sense.
You know the way that Leedidn't want to go in the room in
the door, but Lucifer wouldknow.
Yes, Maze would know.
Yeah, yeah, because we are verypredictable human beings.
(35:37):
We think that we're so unique.
No one in the world has everfelt like we do, but it's just
not true.
It's just not true.
And Maze and Lucifer would know.
They know.
They know humans.
Yeah, yeah, they don't knowthemselves, but they know humans
(36:03):
, yeah, all right, was there athird thing that I said that I
wanted to talk about?
Linda's book and therelationship with Rory and Ella.
Figuring it out, maybe?
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Oh, ella figuring it out, yeah.
Yeah yeah, I feel like she wasbest placed to be able to figure
it out, in that she's supersmart, has an up-close personal
view of all of it and is aperson of faith, and so is more
(36:36):
inclined to believe that thisstuff is real.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Anyway, yeah, I think that I mean, we've talked about
it a little bit already, bothtoday and in previous episodes
like even some of the ways that,like in the last episode, or
maybe it was two episodes ago,where she talks to a meta deal
and she's trying to hint thatshe knows and he like acts like
he doesn't know what she'stalking about, and I don't think
(37:00):
that it would have gotten pasthim.
And then we said, but she ledwith her sock as, like the
reason that she knew that theworld was ending, and today we
talked about the fact that, likethere were things that just her
actual crisis like just didn'tmake total sense.
And also and also I want toqualify that like the specific
(37:22):
moments that she called out likeI held an angel feather in my
hand and you let me believe itwas an emu feather, and also Ray
Ray is the angel of death.
Like those two moments calledout, specifically, those I
believed those didn't frustrateme as like like the way that you
(37:42):
described I hear what you saidthat when she's like you
couldn't trust me, like yeah, ofcourse we couldn't trust
anybody, don't take itpersonally.
Yeah, like Chloe shouldn't evenknow.
But those two things, that thosetwo things specifically.
She was like what, the actual,like how, what, and like a
(38:05):
feeling of betrayal at havinghad this, those things kept from
her.
Those two things.
I was like yeah, that's notcool.
Especially ray ray, oh gosh,yeah.
So I just like those things I Ikind of wanted to name I think
I don't know I'm not sure whatpurpose it served narratively to
have her get wasted, like Iguess she needed the courage to
(38:28):
actually sort of confront themall publicly at once.
But I why?
I mean, she's, we've seen herbe very brave and she was
already kind of working towardit with a mena deal, like I'm
not unless she was frightened, Idon't know.
(38:49):
There was something about likethat, that her getting just
totally wasted.
That again I was kind of likewhat, why, what, why?
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Well, especially since she's dating a recovering
alcoholic.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, that's true, and he's there with her,
although I will say we have seenher.
When, having a crisis, she kindof turns to substances.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
True, that is true.
We have seen that before.
Yeah, though the one I'mthinking of with the bomb, like
her, life was in danger,although I guess she thinks the
whole world is in danger.
Yeah, okay, all right, thanksfor reminding me of that so I
mean not completely out ofcharacter yeah, okay.
(39:44):
Well, I guess those were thethings that I wanted to make
sure that I said did you?
Did you articulate what youwanted to make sure you wanted
to share with our listeners?
Speaker 3 (39:55):
uh, yeah, yeah, I think.
So.
You've said before that thisseason feels rushed, and I agree
.
You've said before that thisseason feels rushed, and I agree
, and I was trying to think ofwhat Linda could have that
wasn't a book, because I waslike you know, if she was like
you know what?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I've got all of my notes from the past five years
that could have had the sameeffect, but it wouldn't have
given her, like, an opportunityfor her to have a crisis.
I honestly, would have beenokay with it as a book If she
had said I'm like writing anovel based on you it's called
sympathy for the devil and youknow, like it's about the
fictional therapist to the deviland like, even like, gave them
(40:42):
different names chloe is zoe andyeah, you know, like dan stan,
yeah, something like that.
Like that, actually, I thinkcould have worked.
It would have not made me thinkless of linda barton, yes, and
it would have.
There could have beenadditional funny jokes in the
(41:03):
telling right, like to haveKevin Alejandro come out and
then I'll be like Stan.
I think that could have beenreally fun, and so I think they
could have even kept it as abook, but allowed her to keep
her integrity yeah, which I feellike they stole from her in
(41:25):
this, which is unfortunate.
Yeah, which is unfortunate.
So, all right, fluff.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
I have two.
The first is that when Lucifergoes to get Linda and-.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
The bra and the sommelier yeah, Excellent taste
in men.
It's like Linda, I love you.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Although I did find myself wondering, like who's
looking after Charlie?
Oh my gosh, where is Charlie?
Yeah, must have had anovernight babysitter.
Maybe Adriana was looking afterCharlie so that she could, you
know, really enjoy herself atthe wedding.
I hope so.
So that's, that was my firstpiece of fluff.
The second one did you noticewho the director was for the
(42:14):
second episode?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
No, I didn't.
Who was it?
Speaker 3 (42:17):
DB, woodside, oh cool .
Woodside, oh cool.
And which I think is part ofthe reason why he was absent for
most of the episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he gave himself the coolestflying away moment when he
jumps and twists in the air, thetwists.
I remember that, like from thefirst watch through I was being
(42:37):
like oh, that is freaking cool.
And, uh, ella's response toseeing the wing.
That's what it should look like.
Yeah, that's what it's supposedto look like.
I remembered seeing that andit's before.
I think that's part of the coldopen, and so it was immediately
after that as I'm watching, andI was directed by DB Woodside.
I was just like you go, makeyourself look cool, db, I am
(42:59):
down for that.
Make yourself look cool.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
DB.
I am down for that.
That is so funny, that's great.
So so those are my, my, my twopieces of fluff.
That's really great.
Yeah, well, I, I also waswondering where the heck Charlie
was, and and I and I also tooknote of the Somalia at Linda's
place.
So those, so we noticed similarthings on that score.
(43:25):
The other thing that I kind ofnoted that I think is both a
shortcut and also fan service,is the montage from previous
where Chloe's remembering allthe times that he abandoned her
or that.
You know things, things got gotintense emotionally and then he
(43:48):
left.
And then we see it again whenrory's reading it, and then we
see the montage of all the sweetmoments between them and all
the kind of the moments of trueconnection between them, which,
um, like, on the one hand it's atotal shortcut because we're
just editing together shitthat's already happened, and on
(44:10):
the other, in this final seasonof this beloved show, it like
feels like a warm hug.
So it was a both and for me onthose two montages.
So it was a both and for me onthose two montages Also, fluffy,
fluffy, fluffy did this, likethe changes in Lauren German's
looks.
I mean Ellis too, ellis too,clearly aged over the five years
(44:33):
I mean, but I don't know, Idon't Germans looks as her
character really softened fromthat season one where she was
all angles and severe, to thisfinal where she was much more
(44:54):
sort of soft and flowy, which Ithought was was really I hadn't
noticed until they put ittogether in that montage, you
know.
Yeah yeah, so that was somethingthat I noted.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
It's funny, like this isn't exactly a clip show, but
uh, you know, I remember in the80s every season of like
long-running shows would havemaybe not every season, but
every long running show wouldhave a clips episode.
And like they, they would, uh,the one that I remember being
(45:27):
the most like as a kid, goinglike they're really reaching
here and like, did the writersneed a week off?
Where the story, like the framestory for that it was Star Trek
, the next generation Riker getsbitten by something that causes
him to relive memories, and so,and I, I just remember being
(45:51):
like, uh-uh, like, I'll take theclip show.
I'm, I'm a fan, I like these,it's like the best stuff.
William reicher, I'm down withit, but seriously.
And so, like I find itinteresting, uh, like you don't
see them as often anymorebecause you don't have the 24
episode seasons anymore, where,like that's just brutal on the
(46:15):
writer, writers and the actorsand the rest of the, the staff
well, also the way that so muchis dropped all at once.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
It like it's harder.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah, it's harder for the fans as well, Like when
you're watching 24 episodes over24 weeks, you know, and you
can't go back and rewatch yourfavorites whenever you want to.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yeah, you know, but I also.
What gets me about this?
This one it's not exactly aclip episode, but it is like
very much the um, like in thespirit of that, and I feel like
they also watch the communityclips episode, where it was
flashbacks to things that we'dnever actually seen um, because
(47:00):
they kind of do that too.
So like we've got these scenesthat are not canon, that.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
So like, like what the?
Speaker 3 (47:09):
the scene between maze and dan in the car, where
they actually did have aconversation, but we're, oh,
canon version of it, got it,yeah.
And then the scene in theprecinct where Lucifer has that
giant desk and Cacusa is goingdown on Mays.
So they're kind of like takinga page out of community with
(47:30):
that as well.
Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
You know, I think those aspects are part of why I
say if Linda had said that itwas fiction, it would have been
more, given her more integrity,because it was already sort of
there, it was already sort offictionalized.
Absolutely yeah, interestingyeah.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
So one other piece of fluff.
I mentioned this to you rightafter I watched them.
I was like Tom Ellis wearing atuxedo shirt and suspenders for
an entire episode is something Ican get behind.
I mean, talk about big nose andbroad shoulders.
(48:09):
It's just like just stay on thescreen.
Just yeah, just there.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Oh man, it's just gorgeous.
Too funny, too funny.
Alright, well, we're almostdone, so I will see you next
time for the final two episodes.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
See you next time our theme song is Feral Angel Waltz
by Kevin Mccleod fromincompetechcom, licensed under
creative commons by attribution4.0 license.
Visit the show notes for theurl.
I am an artificially generatedvoice powered by narrakeepcom.
(48:58):
Luc Lucifer is a WarnerBrothers production that first
aired on Fox and then Netflix.
Tracy and Emily are notaffiliated with Fox, netflix nor
WB.
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with them and visit the shownotes for other ways to connect.
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