July 9, 2020 • 63 mins
#012 In this episode, I have a conversation with author and real estate investor Rachael Hernandez, about how to invest in mobile homes. We discuss why she believes mobile homes are better than single-family, how to find deals, how to manage your mobile properties, and more.
Guest: Rachael Hernandez
Host: Candle Lockett
This show is sponsored by: Candle Real Estate Academy.com. Education for real estate professionals.
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Episode Transcript
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Candle (00:27):
Episode 12 as always.
The goal of this show is toshine a light on people's
strategies, systems, and ideasto help grow your real estate
investing business.
Today, we're lighting up,investing in mobile homes.
My guest today, Rachel Hernandezjoins the show and she shares
why she sold her entire singlefamily real estate portfolio to
(00:51):
purchase to invest in mobilehomes, and why you should too.
At the end of the show, Rachelleaves something for the
listeners.
This is a great, show so let'sget started.
Hi, Rachel.
Welcome to lighting up realestate.
Rachael (01:08):
Thanks so much for having me candle.
I really appreciate you askingme to come on the show.
Candle (01:13):
Oh, well, thank you for accepting the invitation.
I am so excited about this.
We are talking about mobilehome, real estate investing.
Great.
I'm ready.
Okay.
Because you know, I have so manyquestions to ask.
I am currently living in arural, small rural town in
Georgia, and I see a lot ofmobile home parks and community.
(01:36):
So of course I have a lot ofquestions cause I would love to,
uh, to just even find out howyou own or you can own a
community and this is where youcome in.
So you're here.
Okay.
So Rachel, okay.
How did we even get started inmobile home real estate
investing?
Rachael (01:53):
Okay.
Sure.
No problem.
I get this question all thetime.
Actually mobile home nvestingfound me.
So I'll tell you about thestory.
I first got into real estateinvesting by reading the book,
rich dad, poor dad by RobertKiyosaki.
And that's where I learned theconcept of passive income, which
(02:13):
is income.
That doesn't really depend on meto make it so listening to this,
this was a very new concept, aneyeopener for me because before
the only income candle I knewwas earned income through a job.
So my background is really insales and marketing.
Um, I've been a sales executivefor various fortune 500
(02:36):
corporations, and I've also hadmarketing positions in the
entertainment industry as well.
So after I read that book andhearing the concept of passing
income, it really excited me.
So I decided to do it throughreal estate investing.
So the way I started out was insingle family homes, like a lot
(02:57):
of real estate investors.
I started out looking for dealsfor other investors by first
becoming a bird dog and then awholesaler.
And this is the way I just builtup cash.
They would just pay me to finddeals.
Candle (03:11):
So explain to the audience what a bird dog is as
compared to the wholesaler.
Rachael (03:16):
Sure.
Well, there's a differencebetween a bird dog and a
wholesaler.
So bird dog is think of it as aninformation gatherer.
So you've got an investor thatyou work with and that specific
investor tells you, well, I wantto look for either a home or
mobile home or an apartmentbuilding some type of, u m,
(03:37):
asset and they know exactly whattype of asset they're looking
for.
And then they'll go into, I justwant to spend this much.
I don't want to rehab this muchor I'm willing to do this much,
fix up work.
They'll be very specific.
So that's one of the thingslooking for an investor who
knows what they're doing.
They're very specific on whatthey're looking for.
(04:00):
So as a bird dog, you kind oflook in those neighborhoods.
They're giving you the blueprintof what they're looking for.
And then based on theircriteria, try to find motivated
sellers too, who are interestedin selling, uh, their
properties.
And once you've got a list ofpeople that you're working with
on a regular basis, thesemotivated sellers, you just got
(04:22):
to kind of get the information.
When do they need to sell, buy?
How much do they want?
Why are they selling?
When do they need to move?
[inaudible] get all thatinformation together for the
investor.
Take it to the investor.
And the investor will either sayyes or no.
And if they say yes, I want topursue it.
(04:43):
You hand it off to them.
You don't put anything undercontract.
You just give them theinformation.
And basically if that investor,as a bird, dog ends up buying
that property, then they'll justpay you a fee for, for your, for
your work that you've done.
So that's something that you gotto set up with the investor
beforehand.
(05:04):
And I tell a lot of people, youknow, if you're looking for
someone who's actually doingdeals, you know, in your market,
you need to, you know, checkyour local real estate
investment club, get out intothese communities.
See who's actually doing doingdeals because I'll tell you,
there are people who do dealsand then people who don't do
deals, who are looking for dealsand you really wanna, um, you
(05:26):
know, connect with people whoknow what they're doing and then
they can perform so you can getpaid.
So yeah, so that's what a birddog is a wholesaler on the other
hand is someone who goes out anddoes his exact same thing.
The only difference between abird dog and a wholesaler is
that the wholesaler gets all theinformation negotiates with the
(05:48):
seller and puts it undercontract.
So they're actually making anagreement with the seller to buy
the home.
Then either assign theirinterest in the contract to
their end buyer, AKA theinvestor, the end investor,
which is what I did, or theytake title to the home or
(06:10):
apartment building, um, in theirname.
And then they resell it, youknow, with whatever their
arrangement is with the newbuyer, who's the investor.
And then the new investor takesit into their name.
So there's different ways ofdoing it, but that's basically
the difference between a bird,dog and a wholesaler.
Okay.
So you started out as a birddog, then a wholesaler and then
(06:34):
advanced into being a buy andhold investor.
Or did you buy and flip?
Yes.
Yes.
So once I built up enough cashas a bird dog, and then a
wholesaler, then I startedbuying and holding single
families homes for cashflow.
But soon I had a nice sizedportfolio of single family
(06:56):
homes.
I became a burnout lamb ormyself.
So it was only years afterreading, you know, Lonnie
Scruggs course.
Now it's a book it's calleddeals on wheels.
He's considered the godfather ofmobile home investing that I
decided, you know what, I'mgoing to sell my entire real
estate portfolio and just getinto mobile home investing.
(07:19):
Whoa.
And that's what I did.
It sounds crazy, but I did itand here I am.
Whoa.
Okay.
That was huge.
Yeah.
That's a big feat.
So what was it that you read it?
That book that just said I'm outor were you already like
teetering on going in andfilling this portfolio anyway,
or just, you were perfectly finewith your single families and
(07:42):
this is what the transformationafter reading the book and you
just said I'm in the wrong fieldof investing pretty much.
Well, so what I've really likedabout mobile home investing
after I read the book or thecourse is one, there's less
competition because I don't knowmany people get up out of bed
(08:03):
and say, I want to be a mobilehome investor because it's got
that negative stigma.
Right?
Second, what I like about itbesides less competition, less,
less people who are into it.
Second is I'm really good atnetworking and working with
people.
I don't know if you noticed, butthat's what I do.
(08:24):
So like when I was doingwholesaling and bird-dogging,
you know, there's all thesedifferent ways to find motivated
sellers.
And you know, you take all thesecourses and you read all these
books and everyone's tellingwhat worked for them.
So I was doing direct mail.
I was sending postcards toattorneys.
I mean, I was doing all thisstuff in the office and I hated
(08:46):
it.
I was sending offers to banks,like send 50 offers and get one
accepted, you know?
And I was like, this is way toomuch administration.
I cannot do this.
This is not who I am.
So what I liked about mobilehome investing, it really
requires you to get out in thefield and meet people because
(09:07):
like Lonnie said, and a lot ofhis books, it's a people
business.
And I think you agree with me.
I mean, real estate investing isa people business.
Um, you can do it, you know, uh,cold calling and sending out
direct mail.
It works, but it's, it's a lotof calling.
It's a lot of direct mail, youknow?
(09:28):
So you hear me, I know I'm, I'magreeing to everything you're
saying.
So mobile home investing itreally, really matched my
personality and that's how hedid things.
So that's kind of how I made thedecision.
The other thing I liked is thatI just loved buying these homes
with no debt.
So since I cashed out on myentire real estate portfolio,
(09:51):
this was when the market washigh.
I had the cash to buy thesehomes.
So instead of buying a home forlike a hundred thousand dollars,
I kept buy it for less thanthat.
Like$5,000 or less, you knowwhat I mean?
It was a big difference.
Yeah.
So that's kinda what sold me onit, but it did take me a while
(10:15):
to kind of, you know, just learnthe market build report.
He was just starting, you know,candle at the ground up like any
business.
This is amazing.
So Rachel, did you, okay, so youread the book and you decided,
okay, I'm going to sell myportfolio.
How long did it take from youselling your portfolio to you
purchasing your first mobilehome park?
(10:36):
Okay.
So basically it took me a while.
Um, now it was actually my, thisis what I specialize in mobile
homes in the parks, the specificmodel.
Okay.
Yes.
I've been asked to buy parks andI'm just not there.
Um, mentally I will, I will do aside note.
There's a lot of hype right nowabout buying mobile home parks.
(11:00):
And it's really not what it'scracked up to be best that I
wanted to ask you.
Like, we've got to talk aboutwhy, you know, the difference
between a dif having the singlefamily mobile home and then the
entire community.
I'm so glad you brought that up.
No, I actually, I had thisconversation with Juan, correct.
He was kind of a mentor to me.
(11:21):
I took him aside.
Um, you know, when he was alive,he passed away a few years ago,
but um, I said, Lonnie, youknow, I've been doing these
mobile.
This is when I was kind ofestablished already for a while
now.
And what do you think aboutbuying mobile home parks?
Because I'm getting a lot ofpeople, um, cause I'm a blogger
and a writer who are asking meto go in on these deals and
(11:43):
other investors.
And they're really pushing meto, you know, partner with them
and let it out.
And Lonnie said, you know what?
You know, that was somethingthat I was thinking about too
with my wife, but we reallywanted to see what was the end
goal, you know, did we want toget stuck with an asset with all
(12:05):
this liability?
You know, because if someonetrips and falls in a mobile home
park or fun training branch,right.
And, and expenses, and I willtell you, I've known people to
have mobile home parks fromsingle family homes they got in.
Then they got out because theygot up one, one person.
He was out of California.
(12:25):
He had a main water pipe, buscost him$60,000.
Thank goodness.
He actually had the funds.
He was able to refinance one ofhis single family homes in
California.
But he's like, Rachel, if I hadnot had that property, I don't
know what I would have done.
So he actually fixed it, got outresoled the park.
(12:48):
So that's one of the thingsthat's kind of stopping, like
talk to Lonnie.
And he said, buy a mobile homepark is really not going to let
me and my wife do what we want,which is travel across country
in an RV.
That was their dream.
And he's like, that's why westarted with the homes.
And then they bought the lot andthen put the homes on them or
(13:09):
that the homes were already onthe lot individual lot, or even
a small piece of land, you know,but our entire mobile home park,
he's like, what if you're in itwith other people, it's kind of
like a marriage, you know, youguys are in it together.
And that's when I realized, youknow what?
I don't even know if I want todo this.
So because the people I'veknown, who've bought large
(13:32):
mobile home parks, they're in itwith other people and they've
had to move their families tothe location.
And then they got out and theywent into something else.
Rachel, you know what just gavewith the Lonnie deals with the
homes or the lot, if you want togo up, but not an entire mobile
home park.
Yeah.
There's a lot of informationabout it right now.
(13:54):
So there's a lot of fun.
There's a lot of people raisingmoney for their funds because
they need people's money to buythese mobile home parks.
So what the strategy is is whatyou, what you love to your
passion or in teaching.
And this is pretty much get ourindividual mobile homes
(14:15):
individually and not the park,not the park.
This is a great lesson.
See you you're teaching mealready.
That is a strategy I need the,just the home, not the part.
Well, for me, I mean, it reallydepends.
I mean, some people want thatkind of life for they're busy
all the time and they don'thave, you know, they just want
(14:35):
to dedicate their lives to workand maybe they don't have a
family or family's notimportant, which is fine, you
know, but that's not the kind oflife that I want to lead.
Right.
And I really flip fall in thefootsteps of Lonnie where I'm
doing this so that I can havethat time to do the things I
want to do not have to do.
(14:58):
Right.
You know, so I don't want to behaving these calls from other
investors I'm in this big mobilehome park with this deal.
And then, you know, some mainline breaks or the tree falls on
these homes, or we have a fire.
I mean, I don't want to dealwith it.
So fulfill us about your firstdeal, buying your first mobile
(15:20):
home.
Sure.
How did you structure this?
Sure.
Well, my first deal, it was atwo bedroom, one bath and it
wasn't a nice mobile home park.
And I will tell you the strategyis if you're going to do this,
don't look for the deal first.
Cause that's what I did in thebeginning.
And it really backfired becausewhat you want to do is create a
(15:40):
relationship with the park.
So whether that be the parkmanager or the park owner create
a relationship and it will, itwon't happen overnight.
It takes time to go in there andintroduce yourself, get to know
the park, have them get to knowyou a little chit chat and you
have to keep going and going andgoing.
(16:02):
So basically for my first deal,it took me about eight months to
do and find my first deal.
And I had already built therelationship with a manager.
So it, it didn't happenovernight.
Okay.
So did you already scout outthat location, that target park
that you were, you wanted to buyyour first mobile home in?
(16:24):
Or did you just like chooseseveral different mobile home
parks and just said build arelationship with all of them?
Yeah.
So in the beginning I had noidea what I was doing.
I went to over 200 mobile in myarea.
So you say there's a lot in yourarea.
There's a lot in mind to wow.
And I'm like, it was hours fromwhere I lived.
(16:46):
Um, some of them, and then fromthere I just built the
relationships.
I mean, I really, at that pointI was like, okay, I'm just going
to build the relationship andwhatever leads come, I'm going
to start looking, you know,meeting with sellers.
So I built the relationship andthen so eight months into it,
you know, it was a two bedroom,one bath in a nice mobile home
park and the sellers, theycalled me.
(17:07):
Um, they wanted to sell theirhome, um, because they needed
something bigger.
Um, they had lived there for 10years.
Um, so they called me and I madean appointment to go see the
home.
So as usual, and now I've got,you know, my background in
single family homes.
So I know what to do in terms ofinspections.
If I did my usual inspection asif I were going to live in the
(17:28):
home myself.
So, you know, I checked thelight, I checked the air
conditioning, the heater.
Um, I checked to make sure thetub was working.
Um, anything that you wouldcheck as a homeowner?
I did the same.
So I checked the insight.
And then when we went out to theoutside, we started going around
the home and I, I saw that therewas an issue, uh, with some of
(17:52):
the siting in one area of thehome, like the wood was rotting
and it was a Hardy board, um,wood, but there was no, um,
there was no, uh, water comingthrough the house.
The sun was hitting it so wouldactually dry out, but it looked
like it needed to be repaired.
(18:12):
It wasn't obvious repair fix.
So, um, after that, you know, Ijust kind of got my, um,
handyman to look at it.
At this point, I had alreadybuilt up a network and he said,
yeah, it'll cost a couplehundred dollars.
So any case to make a long storyshort, um, the sellers wanted to
know if I wanted to buy the homeand I did my due diligence and
(18:34):
my research.
And I said, yes, I do want tobuy the home.
But we know negotiated back andforth, you know, we with the
numbers.
But finally we just came up toan agreement.
Um, I finally bought the homefor$3,600 cash and they even
cleaned it for me, which wasgreat.
(18:55):
Um, that was me actually,because I wanted them to clean
it.
That is crazy.
Like you own the house for$3,600.
Yes.
And then it took me two weeks tofill it and find another family.
And this new family, they gaveme a thousand dollars to move in
and$250 per month for the nextfour and a half years, they were
(19:17):
never late.
And that was my first day.
It was the most memorable onefor me.
And I mean, it wasn't, it didn'tgo smoothly, but you know, you'd
have to learn things, but I wasable to, you know, get it done.
Wow.
So when you, when you buy themobile, when you bought this
mobile home, do you, you do ownthe mobile home and also the
(19:37):
land that it fits on.
Like, is there a survey aroundwhat you own as a, just the
mobile home itself and yourenting the land?
Right, right.
Now, what I do is I justspecifically focus on parks,
parks own the land underneath.
So there's some block grant.
So basically either the personyou put in there pays a lot rent
(20:00):
or you pay the lot rent and youcollect it from the person
paying.
I really don't want to, I'vedone it before that way.
Um, I'd rather have the peoplein the home pay their own lot
rent and then they just pay me.
Whoa, that's smart.
Yeah.
So basically I don't own theland.
It's the part that owns theland.
(20:23):
It's just for the home rightnow.
Now one of the things I amthinking about doing is going
into just buying lots or a smallpiece of land and putting homes
on them.
That's been in the back of myman, my mind for a very long
time.
Yeah.
Kind of like McDonald's have youever seen MacPhail?
Is it the mic founder?
Oh yeah.
(20:44):
Are you a movie buff when itcomes to business movies, you
have my attention.
Anything else I can't getthrough?
If it has to do with money andreal estate, I'm there for it.
You know what I just saw again,this is one of my favorite
movies.
I hope it's okay.
If I say it, the money pit withTom Hanks is on my brain right
(21:04):
now.
I love that I can put it onreplay and it's just anyone
listening to this podcast.
If you haven't seen it, pleasego, Hey, red movie.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
But to answer your question yes.
(21:24):
Kind of like McDonald's yes.
The park owns the land and thenI just own the home.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So how do you determine how muchyour rent is going to be?
Do you have to compare, um, likeI guess the quality of that or
the square footage of the mobilehome or the other rates in that
(21:45):
community park?
How did you know, like thenumbers could work for you
pretty much?
And the answer is really easybecause I have a lot of people
who, you know, they go to myblogs, like, Rachel, how do I
determine, you know, how much Ican get for this home or what
someone can put down for thishome.
I was like, it's really easy.
Just park manager or the owner,another peop person you can ask
(22:08):
as the mobile home dealershipsin the area, because they have
to deal with this all the time.
Oh, the park manager, onceyou've built a rapport with the
park manager or the owner,because it could be the owner in
there.
Um, and, uh, and I will tellyou, you won't know between the
owner and the park manager.
Cause sometimes you know, thatjust the way that, you know,
(22:28):
it's really a people business,they don't, they don't carry
themselves that way.
So, um, you would just ask themand they would tell you another
thing is just go out in theresidence, start talking to
people.
There's a lot of people walktheir dogs in these parks and
it's really like a slower paceof life.
So you can do those things.
(22:49):
It is versus, um, some otherniches and you know, being in a
big city.
And then, then we're like, Oh, Idon't have time for you.
You know, like in these mobilehome parks, I mean, they, people
really do take the time to talkwith you and you know, as long
as you're approachable and yourespect them and you can show
that you respect them, they'rewilling to talk with you in
(23:12):
general.
So just ask people who livethere and maintenance people,
they're like circulating,they're doing things, just ask
them, Hey, you know, um, anddon't say you're an investor.
That's another, that's anotherpet peeve.
I don't say I'm just like aregular person.
Okay.
Now there's people who say, Oh,I'm going to introduce myself as
the investor and be important.
And here's my business card.
(23:32):
And I'm like, I don't even havebusiness card.
So, um, it's all in theapproach.
So people like those who arelike them, and if you can kind
of, you know, just treat peoplelike people, then you're not
going to have a problem in thisbusiness.
(23:53):
Okay.
So because I'm a novice tomobile home parks, I'm still,
comparising comparing that,making a comparison between, I
guess, a mobile home and asingle family.
So here in Georgia, We have[inaudible] our HOA is, do they
(24:14):
exist in mobile home parks, somemobile home parks they do.
And a lot of those ones aregoing to be on the coast.
It's possible in California,anything where it's kind of in a
very, um, uh, high end area.
So with the HOA, you're probablygoing to have even more in lot
(24:37):
rent.
Um, I've heard in California,the lot rent is sometimes as
high as a thousand dollars amonth.
Yeah.
And I've had students who dobusiness in California.
I mean, they can buy the homeless, but it's just having that
lot rent when they havevacancies.
I was like, you know, you justneed to account for that.
And there's people doing dealsin those areas right now, but
(25:01):
yeah, it would depend on thepark.
Um, that's one of the questionsyou want to ask when you talk to
the park manager, you know, whatare the fees associated with the
park?
And they will tell you they havenothing to hide.
Right, right.
So does it typically do, do youcome across, like it's very
common also with these hos hereis you can only have so many
(25:23):
people that can rent in acommunity.
Do they encourage people toactually own the mobile homes or
is there no rent restrictionsand when it comes to mobile home
parks?
Sure.
It depends on the park.
Some parks only want people whoown the homes.
And that was the first, um, thatwas one of my first experiences.
(25:45):
Like, and it, it really turnedme off.
I, I wrote it, um, in my book,um, you can link it in the show
notes, but I wrote about it andthat's something that really
turned me off because I actuallywent and looked for the deal
first, which was my mainmistake.
And then I went to the parkmanager and she was like, no,
(26:07):
you gotta live in the home.
Now you got to live in the home.
And I did it multiple times, notjust once, multiple times.
And it was like, you got to livein the home.
So that's why it's so importantif you're going to do this to
actually go in there and try tobuild rapport with the park
manager or owner, because you'renot going to get along with
(26:27):
everyone.
Right.
And I think that's importantbecause, you know, in an ideal
world it would be great, but weall don't have the same
personalities.
So for me, some people like me,some people don't like me and
it's, it's the same for anyother.
We're all people, you know, andwe all have different
personalities.
(26:48):
We all have different ways ofdoing things.
So the key is to find parks thatyou want to do business in that
you like, um, you feel that itworks with your pals
personality, but at the sametime, you want to make sure the
park manager or owner is someonethat you think can work with
your personality and you canwork with their personal ad
(27:08):
personality because if not, it'snot going to work.
Okay.
So what utilities are ourlandlord's responsible for?
Or does the tenant pretty muchpay all the utilities?
They pretty much, yes.
They pretty much pay off the wayI do it.
I mean, some landlords can do itdifferent, but, um, a lot of
(27:29):
times it's a gas, electric,trash, and uh, um, what am I,
water?
Water.
Water is a big, yeah.
So they're usually responsiblefor all those utilities.
I do some, no, some parks whoactually just included in the
lot rent.
Um, you know, they included itin the lot, rent the utilities.
(27:52):
But, um, as for me, I actually,when I work with people, I tell
them, you know, you do need to,um, pay for utilities and that's
kind of a red flag to whenyou're going out and filling
these homes.
If people call you, I'minterested in your homes and
they ask, well, can you provideall the utilities?
(28:12):
Can you pay for one?
Right.
That's a major red flag for me,unless you're going that route.
But I'm right.
So absolutely.
Cause I was wondering how thatworked.
Like if, cause I'm like, okay, Ican see them just using
unlimited water, taking showers,electricity, wifi, all of that.
(28:33):
And then of course, and they'renot paying for any of that.
Well, one park manager because,okay, so I mean one park owner,
I'm sorry.
Um, he owned the park and hedidn't have it sub-metered so
he, he was kinda like, you payme a lot.
Right?
Your water's included.
And I had people in there, um,it was a small home.
(28:54):
It was a two bedroom, two bath,I believe.
And they would call me, youknow, this owner, he's
ridiculous.
He's knocking on our door.
He wants us to pull theskirting, look for leaks
underneath the house.
He would go to every sink.
This is the owner, not the,every single house.
Hey, you're, you're using up waytoo much water.
(29:15):
Let's look underneath yourhouse.
Wow.
I don't have time for that.
No meter the darn thing.
Right, right.
But he didn't want to deal withit because it was costly and he
didn't want to do improvements.
And that's my other gripe aboutsome of these mobile home parks,
they raised a lot rent, but thenthey don't do the improvements
until the city comes and say,Hey, you need to do this.
(29:38):
And that was my next question.
Like who monitors, like to makesure that, you know, some of
these mobile home parks are inits best shape.
Cause I've seen some parks whereyou have those that are, you
know, it's kind of like HOA.
We have those that are justreally nice.
And you have those where it'slike, okay, is anybody even
living in there?
But someone is, but you couldtell that that landlord or that
(30:00):
owner just has not kept up that,that home.
Right.
And that's my other gripe withsome mobile home park owners who
don't keep up with it.
It really is the community.
Because if you have a strongsense of community, they're
going to go to code codeenforcement through the STEMI
and code enforcement.
They don't go around to theparks and Oh, your skirtings
(30:21):
like that, or, Oh, you need topave the road.
No, they respond to calls.
So the more it gets done, ifthere's a sense of community and
residents, you know, they'rehomeowners.
And there were like, you know,you're raising the lot rent yet.
You're not doing anything toimprove this community.
Then they have a problem.
So they bring it to their city.
(30:42):
They bring it to codeenforcement.
And there's a lot of pushback.
I mean, you hear a lot.
Um, right now the, the hot thingis he is mobile home park owners
raising the rent, the lot renton these parks.
And um, some of these residentsare saying they're raising the
lot rent and the mobile homeparks are.
Yeah, we are because it's not inline, but what are you doing to
(31:04):
improve the community?
And a lot of resonance, mostresidents, they are reasonable.
If you can justify why you'reraising the lot rent and not
just to say, well, it's becauseof the market, but you're
actually taking steps to improvethe community.
If you're improving roads, ifyou're trimming trees, but if
(31:24):
you're not doing anything, whyare you raising the lot rent?
Right.
So, I mean, so that's true.
That's very true because in asense it does affect cause that
not only can affect, I guessthe, the owner of that mobile
home parks value, but it, doesit also have an impact on the
value of your own mobile homethat you own, right?
(31:44):
Yes, exactly.
Well also that, and if there'sresidents in the park and
they're homeowners, they justdon't want to attract like riff
Raff, not all, not all parks aregated.
So if it's not gated and somethings are not kept up, it could
attract a certain type ofexactly.
(32:05):
Hell and they don't want that asa whole.
I wouldn't as a homeownereither.
So yeah.
Yeah.
So Rachel, okay, let's go backto your, your first deal.
How did you finance this?
Well, you had your portfolio,but how would one finance this?
Yes.
At this point, I mean, there's alot of different, um,
philosophies on financing.
(32:26):
And one of my big gripes islike, if you don't have your
personal finances in order, youshould not invest at all.
And that's one of the, I mean,if you know how much money is
coming in, how much money iscoming out and then you're
saving every month, or if youhave a side business where
(32:47):
you're saving enough money to doyour first deal, but in terms of
financing, I D you know, um, the, you can, if you want, I mean,
there's people who've actuallyborrowed against their homes.
I don't recommend it getting ahome equity loan to buy five
mobile homes and I've knowpeople who do that, but I don't
recommend that because thenyou're putting your own personal
(33:11):
assets at risk, um, in terms offinancing.
So my thing is, um, I think it'sbest if you do want to get
started, maybe if you need tobuild up cash, either build it
up through your job and insidebusiness, going out, like what I
did, bird dogging orwholesaling, looking for deals
(33:31):
for other investors withouttaking the risk of buying,
holding.
If you don't have the funds tohold, if something goes wrong in
terms of taking a loan, I don'trecommend it.
You can, but I just really don'trecommend it.
Um, owner financing, Oh, you cango that route if you'd like, but
(33:55):
most times the owner, they wanttheir cash as well, too.
So I mean, the other route isgoing on and taking a partner,
but, you know, candle that hasits own problem.
We're never going to have thatconversation.
So is your strategy looking forturn key mobile homes or are you
(34:16):
looking to possibly, you know,rehab some of them to make some
money going in?
Or can you do that with mobilehomes?
Yes, yes.
Yes.
So for me, I really look forsomething that is not gonna have
that much work.
It's going to have cosmeticissues.
Um, the most I will do is removeand replace.
So basically if the airconditioning is like really old
(34:41):
and it shot, I've replaced anair conditioner, roofs I've
replaced roofs, but in terms oflike gutting the whole place and
just putting, like I knewsomeone, um, he had to put new
flooring all through the housebecause I had the particle
board, you know, they got wetand there were holes and every
(35:03):
single room now I don't go thatroute.
I pass those leads to otherinvestors who are willing to
think, okay, you wholesalemobile homes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Now I've done that up.
Oh, wow.
That is so cool.
So yeah, it's just a matter ofagain, networking.
(35:23):
So, you know, the people wereactually doing deals in the
area, you know, it's just kindof just staying in touch with
them and saying, you know, whatare you looking for and how much
work are you willing to do?
And a lot of this is in my book,like what to ask and I'm sure
you can just link it here in theshow notes, but, um, it's
(35:45):
really, I mean, it's justknowing who to go to with these
deals and then just trying tofind something that fit their
criteria.
It's really basic.
Wow.
This is just so cool.
So how do you ever have anymaintenance calls or do you have
a certain, uh, do you manageyour own properties or do you
(36:05):
have a team that does this foryou?
No, I do it myself and mostpeople because they go in it,
um, knowing that, you know, theyhave that homeowner mentality,
um, that they'll eventually ownit one day.
You know, that was my nextquestion.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Keep going.
So basically it's very minimal.
(36:27):
Now, if there is somethingthat's really like a big expense
and was out of the control, likewe had hail damage to a roof and
I have had a tree fall on a homeand I've had to file a claim on
insurance, but thank goodness noone got hurt.
And then second it was a metalroof.
(36:48):
So really it did minimal damage.
There was a little bit of damageand I got paid, uh, from the
insurance to go ahead and do therepairs on, on everything, what
happened, but it's reallyimportant just to kind of
choose.
And you know, this being in realestate candle, you just need to
go be, um, you know, choosing onwho exactly you put in the homes
(37:11):
in the first place.
You don't want to rush.
It's better to have a vacanthome than to put someone in
there and they're not gonna takecare of it.
And they cut off communication.
You don't want that.
Right.
And I've been there, I've donethat.
And those are big mistakes, butknock on wood, I'm learning from
Lowell.
So, um, but yeah, in terms ofmaintenance calls, it's very
(37:37):
minimal.
It's kind of like 20 rule.
You do have, you know, the, the,the, those 20% that you try to
minimize and they take up 80% ofyour time, but the majority of
people just, they just pay.
And then if there's an issue,they just deal with it.
But they will let me know ifthere is an issue.
And also the park manager playsan important role as well, too.
(38:00):
Okay.
Okay.
So let me ask you this.
When you're looking for yourtenant, does that part manager,
do they already have a list of awaiting list or how do they help
you find those tenants?
A waiting list?
And I actually, you're readingmy mind before when I first
(38:22):
started, but see the managerthere, they're an employee and
they've got things to do.
So they'll take a list.
Yeah.
You know, you, you're lookingfor this three bedrooms or two
bedrooms, but they don't havetime to screen people.
No.
Actually end up being more workthan if you just kind of built
(38:44):
your own list and found your ownpeople.
And that's, what's happenedpretty much, you know, I'm like,
Oh, there's a list of 50 people.
I'm like, do I want to callthese people?
Because they're not, theyhaven't been screened because
the manager doesn't have timefor that.
Or do I just kind of want to seewho calls me?
Cause I just put the sign in thewindow, you know?
(39:06):
Yeah.
That's a great point.
Great point.
Right.
So all depends how much work youwant to do.
So have you set everything up ona system to where I guess if
they have an issue and how theypay rent or communicate, is it
all set up on a website or areyou still old school and you
just have a phone number andthey contact you and pay rent.
(39:26):
How do you, what is your systemfor is, um, I guess just getting
the rent and, uh, dealing with,you know, any maintenance issues
that you might have.
Yeah.
I'm old school like Lonnie, Idon't know.
I still use a fax machine, useemails with the park managers
and the owners.
(39:47):
And I, I really do not use emailwith residents because that is a
night.
That would be a nightmare.
And that's what I was thinkingtoo.
Cause I was thinking like, Idon't see actually, you know, a
lot of email communicationsgoing on, like, Hey, you know,
this isn't working, I see moreof it being a contact, the
contact person.
Exactly.
(40:07):
Exactly.
And if they have an issue,texting does not, they've got to
send a whole statement inwriting to hail to the address,
put their name and they got tojump through the hoops.
If there, if, if it's that bigof an issue for them going to be
(40:29):
like, Oh, I sent you a textmessage now, unless it's like a
major emergency where like thewater spouting out, we've had a
big, yeah.
So, um, that's kinda how Ihandle it again.
It goes back to trying to findthe right people who work with
(40:51):
your personality.
So like if you're in real estatefor as long as you'll learn,
they're high maintenance peopleand low maintenance.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Who you want to work with andthat will affect your career as
a real estate investor goingforward.
So I hope that helps.
(41:11):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
So in Phil, let me ask you this.
And even in mobile homeinvesting, what are the, or do
you still have the same taxadvantages as any other real
estate investor with a singlefamily detached?
I mean, you can, if you want.
(41:31):
And I did talk about that withmy first mentor.
I mean, she taught me prettymuch the ropes on what she does.
I've had several mentors, um, ifyou want, but she didn't go that
route.
She basically told me, well, ifI do it that way, and then I
depreciate everything, then yougotta pay back with the
depreciation capture.
(41:52):
And I know this is not like taxpodcasts, so I'm not going to go
into that.
But, um, it can open up a can ofworms.
So basically what she did wasjust kind of reported it's this
is income in me.
I mean, as long as you'rereporting the income, you know,
I mean, unless you want thosetax breaks, but at this point
(42:13):
you really don't need it as,okay.
That's a, that's a, that's somegreat advice.
Rachel, you love mobile homeinvesting so much that you
created a course around this.
Yes.
Tell us about this course.
Cause I cannot wait to take it.
I'm going to be honest.
I'm taking this course.
(42:34):
Well, yes.
Well basically.
Okay.
So I've been blogging since 2007and um, so I've been writing for
a very long time and throughoutthe years people have asked me,
Rachel, when are you going tohave a course?
Um, I need some training.
Do you have any consulting?
(42:54):
And every year it'd be like, no,I'm just going to continue what
I'm doing.
And every year I kept doingthat, but then it got to a point
where people kept asking me thesame darn questions.
And it was like, okay, well I'lljust write a blog post about it.
But even when I wrote the blogposts, I still pointed people in
(43:14):
those directions, but they hadeven more questions.
So it got to the point wherelike, okay, I need to create a
course.
So my course is basically, um, acourse on mobile home investing,
um, and where it takes someonefrom point a to point B.
(43:35):
And that really is, um, onewhere you create a plan on how
you want to go and pursue, uh,mobile home investing.
And because I, I see a lot ofpeople, you know, they're like,
okay, I'm going to read thesebooks and then should I go talk
to the park manager?
But then they don't even get the, have their finances in order.
(44:00):
So the course, it includespretty much from point a to
point B, how do you even getstarted doing this?
You'll have a plan at the end.
And then it also includes aprivate forum where I go on
there and I answer yourquestions.
(44:21):
So you've got the support andit's very affordable.
And for anyone listening candle,we'll probably put the link in
the show notes.
It's pretty affordable.
Um, you know, as just a gettingstarted
Candle (44:32):
Basic course, it also comes with a 50 page workbook.
And, um,
Rachael (44:39):
And it's a really good resource because if you're also
looking to network with othersor maybe you want a partner or
you want opinions on the dealsthat you're doing, we have that
private forum and vision of thecourse.
So candle will link it up in theshow notes for anyone who wants
to check it out, but it'sreally, it's affordable.
(45:00):
And it's something that I thinkis needed, um, among, you know,
um, the real estate investingspace.
Because if you think about, Imean, a lot of these course, I
mean, like I'm going to pay thatfor that course.
And I've got to spend like anarm and a leg, like a, like a
(45:22):
car, you know, a used car forthis, or, you know what they
want me to, you know, refinancemy house to get money, to pay
for this course.
I mean, it's ridiculous.
I don't think the benefit ofthis,
Candle (45:34):
Not too many people are in this lane.
So it's less pressure, less, um,to make mistakes or, um, because
you're not having to hurry upbecause someone else may put an
offer on that property that youwant to flip, especially in the
Atlanta area.
Cause it's kinda like, okay, yougotta think you gotta be ready.
You gotta go, you gotta go.
You gotta go.
And it's like, no, not for everyinvestor.
(45:56):
Like, um, I think for somepeople they may want to just
take their time and findsomething more, uh, more relaxed
in investing and not as, um, asa, I would say pressured, I
think that's the word as it isin Atlanta with flipping.
And I know it's like this amajor other major cities is
(46:17):
like, you just have to, andsometimes you get into these
deals because of the pressure,the multiple offer situations
that you have and um, justwanting to get your feet wet,
but you make a mistake.
And I think with a mobile home,I mean, if you're not starting
out with a lot of money by$3,200, Oh my God.
Right, right.
(46:37):
I mean, like you said, it's justso laid back.
It's chill is just, yeah.
Is this totally different?
I would love that.
I mean, I really am taking thiscourse.
Rachael (46:45):
I say, I can't wait to get my first mobile home.
Cause I was like, okay, I canjust go out there with flip
flops and say, Hey, try to fillit out.
Mobile home.
Candle (46:54):
Instead of me having to, you know, be on top of
everything and looking at textmessages from wholesalers every
morning to be the first one todo it, no way,
Rachael (47:02):
This is just so much easier.
Exactly, exactly.
And it's one of those thingslike you're kind of in your own
different world, but yeah,you're up out there at the real
estate investment cloud.
People are doing single family.
They're doing multifamily.
They're in these commercialdeals.
I went that route too.
And I'm like, no, I'm not havingthis the road
Candle (47:24):
Less traveled for sure.
No one is on this road, you'rein your own lane.
And think even with your course,I think it's pretty cool that
you have that community becauseI'm pretty sure that you guys
can, you know, be friends reallyquick and say, Hey, what do you
think about that?
And you're not having to worryabout competing.
Rachael (47:42):
Exactly, exactly.
And I will tell you, there'sgoing to be a lot of, like for
anyone who does do look intothis course or mobile home
investing, there's going to be alot of investors out there cause
they're out there and they couldhave their own agenda, but they
say, no, no, no, the money's inowning their dirt, not the home.
There's less than, um, and myquestion would be like, so do
(48:05):
you have an interest?
Do you have a fund for mobilehome parks that you're trying
because it's selling to someoneto someone's it's called, you
know, it's like a long list,man.
This Park's been sold like 10times it's been flipped, you
(48:26):
know?
So I would caution anyone, youknow, who do their due diligence
and research what others sayregarding just getting into the
homes and such, because there'smore to it than meets the eye
with some of these mobile homeparks.
So it's up to the individual.
That's right.
Cause you also wrote a bookabout this as well.
(48:47):
Not even just of course you havea book on Amazon.
Yes.
Yes.
And you'll link it to the shitshow.
Right.
Will be linked.
I do have a book and it'sbasically also just a getting
started, you know, with mobilehomes and um, just kind of, I
mean, if you're just gettinginto the space and you're,
you're interested in learningabout it, um, there's not many
(49:09):
mobile home books out there.
I looked at that last, I heardLonnie Scruggs.
I mean his book was somethingcrazy.
I had a student like, did youknow that Lonnie's book was
like, I mean, it was almost athousand dollars.
I'm like, Oh wow.
I guess information is veryvaluable, but my goodness, you
(49:32):
know, so, but uh, yeah.
If anyone wants to check it out,definitely candle we'll link it
up in the show notes.
It will be available.
Candle (49:43):
So Rachel, I've got to put you in the seat.
You're the teacher, it is awe're fixing to do financially
lit one Oh one where you weregoing to school us on money.
Okay.
I love to get into the minds ofreal estate investors because we
think so differently thanordinary people.
And I think it's so cool.
(50:04):
So, um, my, one of my mentorstold me this and I share it all
the time and just, it changedeverything for me.
Um, she said, if you put sevenreal estate investors in front
of a house, they will give youseven different strategies,
seven different ways to spendthe money 75 ways to make the
money.
And they'll have seven differentgoals with it.
Rachael (50:24):
Oh, that is so true.
And so I'm just, I love talking
Candle (50:28):
To real estate investors because we do, we always have
our own, our own thing going,but it all meets our common
goal.
It helps us meet our financialgoals.
So I have some questions I'mgoing to ask you and it's all
related to finance.
Okay.
You ready?
Okay.
And you can be quick with it oryou could explain it as it's,
Hey, it's your classroom.
However you want to run it.
Okay.
(50:48):
What was the first financialbook?
And you've already mentionedrich dad, poor dad.
I want another book, but afinancial book that changed the
game for you, like change yourmindset and how you operate with
money.
Rachael (51:00):
That one had to be, I mean, it was money and also
business.
The richest man in Babylon.
Yes.
It's really downplayed thatbook, but it really took.
Now if you're in going to be inreal estate for the long haul,
you need to know how to hirepeople.
And that book really, really putthings in perspective.
(51:20):
You don't hire.
I forgot exactly.
But you don't hire a brick layerto make baskets or those
stories, those parables, andI've made so many mistakes in
terms of hiring.
You really need to know whoyou're working with and hire the
right people.
So richest man in Babylondefinitely made an impact on me
(51:41):
as another financial book, uh,for my real estate investing
business.
Candle (51:46):
Nice.
What is one money lesson orprinciple that you learned, but
you did not learn it in school.
One money principle that Ilearned when I did not learn it
in school.
It's not what you make thatcount it's way.
Keep, Ooh, that is so true.
Rachael (52:10):
That is a good one.
That is a very good lesson.
Oh my gosh.
I hope my college students isheard that.
I hope so too.
Candle (52:19):
That is so true.
Okay.
If you had 20,000 right now, uh,I guess the extra stimulus
package deposited into your bankaccount, what would you do with
it?
I would just leave it there forat least six months and just
think about what I want to dowith it.
I would not spend a dime of thatuntil I gave it some thought
(52:41):
smart.
Rachael (52:42):
No, I'm not going to buy a new car.
That is smart.
That is smart because manypeople think once they have it,
they got to do something withit.
I'm going to buy a Tesla.
Yeah.
You are one of the few.
I think you're the first thathas said that they would just
wait.
Yeah.
I would just wait on it and giveit some time, at least six
(53:03):
months, if not a year.
Wow.
Because I'm at the point in mycareer, um, that I don't need
the money and I can pick andchoose what deals I want to do.
I have the time to do the thingsI really want to do.
And that's one thing I wanted totalk to you too.
Um, you know, apart from doinginterviews and writing, you
(53:24):
know, I, I think I, to youbefore about having that
podcast, that's another thingI've been wanting to do for a
very long time.
And here I am, it should belaunching sometime very soon.
So you will love it.
You will love it.
Thank you.
So, Rachel, what is yourultimate goal?
(53:47):
My ultimate goal it's really,this is, and this is, I know
it's repetitive because I keepsaying it and saying it and
saying it, but it's really why Idecided to do mobile home
investing and even real estateinvesting in the first place.
It's not about the money.
It's not how much I make.
It's not even having same frombeing a real estate investor.
(54:10):
It's really about time and thefreedom from money and what
having passive income can do foryou.
And this is what Lani scrubstaught me.
You know, the real, the realreason he went into mobile home
investing was that so him andhis wife could travel the
country, go in the RV.
They weren't thinking about, Oh,I want to buy a Tesla.
(54:30):
I want to buy a mansion.
You know, we want to go, youknow, we want to travel the
world.
They just wanted to go in theirRV and have the time to just
enjoy the little towns acrossAmerica.
And they did that with mobilehome investing.
I don't want to, I don't want tobe that type of investor where
I'm getting cold because I haveall these partners or I have all
(54:51):
these, you know, people thatwork underneath me.
And some people do like thatbecause it does make them feel
important that that's theirgoals, but it's not me.
I want to be able to just havethe time that I wanted to do,
like if I'm writing or if I havethe podcast or say, I just kind
of want to go somewhere on theweekend and read a book versus,
(55:13):
Oh my gosh, I'm on vacation, butI have all these people calling
me.
Right.
Right.
So really it really is about notjust about the money.
It's about time and the freedomfrom money.
That's really, that is anexcellent lesson.
Thank you.
Right.
So that was, you're a greatteacher.
That was good.
(55:33):
That was really good.
I hope so.
I've never heard of it in that,that perspective.
I like that.
It's about the time.
It's not about the money.
No, because I mean, we're allgetting old, you know, we're not
as young as we were, you know,before, and I made sure there's
people listening to this who,you know, the different age
(55:56):
groups, but why it happened sofast, fast, it happened so fast.
It happened so fast and youreally need to just enjoy the
time that you have with thepeople you love and your
friends, because you know, itcould be gone, you know, in a
snap.
You never know.
Right.
(56:17):
But no, you're right.
You're right, right.
It is about the time that's,that's so true.
Candle (56:26):
Yeah.
This passive income and givesyou the time.
Exactly.
And I will tell people, um, youknow, cause I get a lot of this
about to, do you really havepassive income?
Do you just sit back and notanswer phone calls and do
nothing?
No, it's not that I still haveto oversee contractors doing fix
(56:47):
up work.
I still have to move homes.
I still have to screen people,but I'm not working 40, 50, 60
hours a week.
I'm working more if I just havelike a couple properties that
we're working only like 10 to 15hours a week doing this, you
know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
I'm doing this all day.
(57:07):
I, I, the best time for me towork is really in the morning.
So I try to get all my workdone.
Wow.
You know, Rachel, I don't thinkI've even shared this on my
podcast with any guests before,but I think what the light bulb
that came on from me and passiveincome and time was my parents
were real estate investors and Inever, they never pushed it, you
(57:31):
know, on me or my brother.
They just said, okay, dowhatever you want to do.
Um, but we, we grew up in it.
We knew how to evict.
We do how to paint all thatother stuff, but it didn't look
like you're going to have theseproperties.
You've got to buy so manyproperties.
So it was never that, but I wasteaching overseas and my father
was diagnosed with cancer whileI was over there.
And when I came back home, itwas a terminal cancer.
(57:52):
And I remember my dad, we werejust, you know, trying to get,
you know, financial things inorder.
And I currently had a propertythat I had put a tenant in, in
Georgia.
And my parents lived inTennessee and my tenant, we fell
out and I decided to leave theproperty cause she wasn't paying
the rent.
And I was tired of dealing withher it's cause you know, I
(58:13):
didn't wanna deal with thatstress.
I had my father, I wanted tofocus on.
So the house sat vacant and Iremember I was filling my dad.
Well I think I have to go backto Georgia and probably teach
and cause I gotta pay the rent.
All of those things.
My dad said no candle.
That's what we have theseproperties for.
Go collect the rent, pay yourbills and you can stay with me.
(58:33):
And I'm like, this is why wehave investment properties.
I mean the light bulb just cameon because it gave me time with
my father.
And I tell people all the time,this is what real estate
investing can do for you.
It can bring you that money whenyou need it.
So you don't have to give yourtime to other places.
And that right there, that wholeexperience for me, being able to
(58:55):
be my father for an entire yearand not work because we had real
estate properties.
It was like, I'm tellingeverybody about this.
I feel everybody.
This is why you need to have aproperty.
This is why you need passiveincome for this.
So you can make money in yoursleep and you can have time for
more, uh, just opportunities formore moments, for more memories
where otherwise you would beworking and that's not making
(59:17):
you really any memories or, ortime.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Rachael (59:22):
I mean, it's not what you think it is.
I mean, yes, you see thesecourses and these people selling
these courses in front of maybea Ferrari or Lamborghini, like
this is what real estateinvesting could do for you or at
the pool on an Island.
But honestly it's not aboutthat.
(59:42):
It's really not about that.
It's about, and you got it.
It's about yeah.
The time to, to do the thingsthat matter in your life because
we're not, you know, we onlyhave so much time on this earth
to live and the older I get,honestly, candles, I'm like, you
(01:00:03):
know what?
It's true.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And even in these hard timeswith coronavirus and you never
know, Oh yeah.
You know, absolutely.
That's really what it is aboutfor me personally.
And I, I'm glad that you sharethe same vision.
(01:00:23):
It really is to have the timeand I got to get props to want
they scrubbed because that'sreally what he taught me as his
student.
I am doing this and I hopeyou're doing it the same way
because to give you time to dothose things that matter in your
life, not things that don'tmatter in your life.
Absolutely.
You have to do it.
(01:00:45):
It is for the time.
Absolutely.
Well, I thank you for being sucha light on the show today.
Well thank you for having me.
I've really appreciate it.
And um, I know you get this allthe time, but um, I've never met
a person whose name was Kandel.
So very memorable in my mind.
(01:01:06):
Thank you.
Thank you.
So how can people reach out toyou?
Sure they can get ahold of me.
I do have a website it's um,adventures and mobile homes.com
and my handle, if anyone is onsocial media, um, I'm on Twitter
(01:01:29):
and Instagram and my handles thesame.
It's mobile home girl.
Uh, G U R L mobile home girl,all one word word.
Um, and they can follow me thereif you kind of want to get a
play by play on what'shappening.
Nice.
Nice.
And I will make sure that wehave all of your information on
our website too, so they canalso get in touch with you.
(01:01:51):
Okay, great.
Thank you so much for having mecan do I really thank you for
teaching me today so much.
You're welcome to ask me anyquestions.
Anytime about mobile homeinvesting, I will because I'll
be taking your course and thatgroup will tell you all how, how
what'd you thought of it?
(01:02:12):
Oh yeah.
Almost definitely.
Definitely.
Rachel has created a course whatyou need to do
Candle (01:02:20):
To get started in mobile home investing and she is giving
our listeners 50% off the priceto purchase.
This is an amazing deal to takeadvantage of this opportunity.
Just go to candle, locket.comforward slash podcast.
There you will find the linkwith the promo code show notes,
(01:02:40):
and you can also learn moreabout Rachel.
Once you get more tips on how tomake extra streams of income,
create assets, learn how to makemoney work for you.
And when giveaways does sign upfor my newsletter, five things
Friday, just go tocandelabra.com/newsletter.
That's all for now.
Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
They fail.
They fail.
Episode 12 as always.
The goal of this show is toshine a light on people's
strategies, systems, and ideasto help grow your real estate
investing business.
Today, we're lighting up,investing in mobile homes.
My guest today, Rachel Hernandezjoins the show and she shares
why she sold her entire singlefamily real estate portfolio to
(00:51):
purchase to invest in mobilehomes, and why you should too.
At the end of the show, Rachelleaves something for the
listeners.
This is a great, show so let'sget started.
Hi, Rachel.
Welcome to lighting up realestate.
Rachael (01:08):
Thanks so much for having me candle.
I really appreciate you askingme to come on the show.
Candle (01:13):
Oh, well, thank you for accepting the invitation.
I am so excited about this.
We are talking about mobilehome, real estate investing.
Great.
I'm ready.
Okay.
Because you know, I have so manyquestions to ask.
I am currently living in arural, small rural town in
Georgia, and I see a lot ofmobile home parks and community.
(01:36):
So of course I have a lot ofquestions cause I would love to,
uh, to just even find out howyou own or you can own a
community and this is where youcome in.
So you're here.
Okay.
So Rachel, okay.
How did we even get started inmobile home real estate
investing?
Rachael (01:53):
Okay.
Sure.
No problem.
I get this question all thetime.
Actually mobile home nvestingfound me.
So I'll tell you about thestory.
I first got into real estateinvesting by reading the book,
rich dad, poor dad by RobertKiyosaki.
And that's where I learned theconcept of passive income, which
(02:13):
is income.
That doesn't really depend on meto make it so listening to this,
this was a very new concept, aneyeopener for me because before
the only income candle I knewwas earned income through a job.
So my background is really insales and marketing.
Um, I've been a sales executivefor various fortune 500
(02:36):
corporations, and I've also hadmarketing positions in the
entertainment industry as well.
So after I read that book andhearing the concept of passing
income, it really excited me.
So I decided to do it throughreal estate investing.
So the way I started out was insingle family homes, like a lot
(02:57):
of real estate investors.
I started out looking for dealsfor other investors by first
becoming a bird dog and then awholesaler.
And this is the way I just builtup cash.
They would just pay me to finddeals.
Candle (03:11):
So explain to the audience what a bird dog is as
compared to the wholesaler.
Rachael (03:16):
Sure.
Well, there's a differencebetween a bird dog and a
wholesaler.
So bird dog is think of it as aninformation gatherer.
So you've got an investor thatyou work with and that specific
investor tells you, well, I wantto look for either a home or
mobile home or an apartmentbuilding some type of, u m,
(03:37):
asset and they know exactly whattype of asset they're looking
for.
And then they'll go into, I justwant to spend this much.
I don't want to rehab this muchor I'm willing to do this much,
fix up work.
They'll be very specific.
So that's one of the thingslooking for an investor who
knows what they're doing.
They're very specific on whatthey're looking for.
(04:00):
So as a bird dog, you kind oflook in those neighborhoods.
They're giving you the blueprintof what they're looking for.
And then based on theircriteria, try to find motivated
sellers too, who are interestedin selling, uh, their
properties.
And once you've got a list ofpeople that you're working with
on a regular basis, thesemotivated sellers, you just got
(04:22):
to kind of get the information.
When do they need to sell, buy?
How much do they want?
Why are they selling?
When do they need to move?
[inaudible] get all thatinformation together for the
investor.
Take it to the investor.
And the investor will either sayyes or no.
And if they say yes, I want topursue it.
(04:43):
You hand it off to them.
You don't put anything undercontract.
You just give them theinformation.
And basically if that investor,as a bird, dog ends up buying
that property, then they'll justpay you a fee for, for your, for
your work that you've done.
So that's something that you gotto set up with the investor
beforehand.
(05:04):
And I tell a lot of people, youknow, if you're looking for
someone who's actually doingdeals, you know, in your market,
you need to, you know, checkyour local real estate
investment club, get out intothese communities.
See who's actually doing doingdeals because I'll tell you,
there are people who do dealsand then people who don't do
deals, who are looking for dealsand you really wanna, um, you
(05:26):
know, connect with people whoknow what they're doing and then
they can perform so you can getpaid.
So yeah, so that's what a birddog is a wholesaler on the other
hand is someone who goes out anddoes his exact same thing.
The only difference between abird dog and a wholesaler is
that the wholesaler gets all theinformation negotiates with the
(05:48):
seller and puts it undercontract.
So they're actually making anagreement with the seller to buy
the home.
Then either assign theirinterest in the contract to
their end buyer, AKA theinvestor, the end investor,
which is what I did, or theytake title to the home or
(06:10):
apartment building, um, in theirname.
And then they resell it, youknow, with whatever their
arrangement is with the newbuyer, who's the investor.
And then the new investor takesit into their name.
So there's different ways ofdoing it, but that's basically
the difference between a bird,dog and a wholesaler.
Okay.
So you started out as a birddog, then a wholesaler and then
(06:34):
advanced into being a buy andhold investor.
Or did you buy and flip?
Yes.
Yes.
So once I built up enough cashas a bird dog, and then a
wholesaler, then I startedbuying and holding single
families homes for cashflow.
But soon I had a nice sizedportfolio of single family
(06:56):
homes.
I became a burnout lamb ormyself.
So it was only years afterreading, you know, Lonnie
Scruggs course.
Now it's a book it's calleddeals on wheels.
He's considered the godfather ofmobile home investing that I
decided, you know what, I'mgoing to sell my entire real
estate portfolio and just getinto mobile home investing.
(07:19):
Whoa.
And that's what I did.
It sounds crazy, but I did itand here I am.
Whoa.
Okay.
That was huge.
Yeah.
That's a big feat.
So what was it that you read it?
That book that just said I'm outor were you already like
teetering on going in andfilling this portfolio anyway,
or just, you were perfectly finewith your single families and
(07:42):
this is what the transformationafter reading the book and you
just said I'm in the wrong fieldof investing pretty much.
Well, so what I've really likedabout mobile home investing
after I read the book or thecourse is one, there's less
competition because I don't knowmany people get up out of bed
(08:03):
and say, I want to be a mobilehome investor because it's got
that negative stigma.
Right?
Second, what I like about itbesides less competition, less,
less people who are into it.
Second is I'm really good atnetworking and working with
people.
I don't know if you noticed, butthat's what I do.
(08:24):
So like when I was doingwholesaling and bird-dogging,
you know, there's all thesedifferent ways to find motivated
sellers.
And you know, you take all thesecourses and you read all these
books and everyone's tellingwhat worked for them.
So I was doing direct mail.
I was sending postcards toattorneys.
I mean, I was doing all thisstuff in the office and I hated
(08:46):
it.
I was sending offers to banks,like send 50 offers and get one
accepted, you know?
And I was like, this is way toomuch administration.
I cannot do this.
This is not who I am.
So what I liked about mobilehome investing, it really
requires you to get out in thefield and meet people because
(09:07):
like Lonnie said, and a lot ofhis books, it's a people
business.
And I think you agree with me.
I mean, real estate investing isa people business.
Um, you can do it, you know, uh,cold calling and sending out
direct mail.
It works, but it's, it's a lotof calling.
It's a lot of direct mail, youknow?
(09:28):
So you hear me, I know I'm, I'magreeing to everything you're
saying.
So mobile home investing itreally, really matched my
personality and that's how hedid things.
So that's kind of how I made thedecision.
The other thing I liked is thatI just loved buying these homes
with no debt.
So since I cashed out on myentire real estate portfolio,
(09:51):
this was when the market washigh.
I had the cash to buy thesehomes.
So instead of buying a home forlike a hundred thousand dollars,
I kept buy it for less thanthat.
Like$5,000 or less, you knowwhat I mean?
It was a big difference.
Yeah.
So that's kinda what sold me onit, but it did take me a while
(10:15):
to kind of, you know, just learnthe market build report.
He was just starting, you know,candle at the ground up like any
business.
This is amazing.
So Rachel, did you, okay, so youread the book and you decided,
okay, I'm going to sell myportfolio.
How long did it take from youselling your portfolio to you
purchasing your first mobilehome park?
(10:36):
Okay.
So basically it took me a while.
Um, now it was actually my, thisis what I specialize in mobile
homes in the parks, the specificmodel.
Okay.
Yes.
I've been asked to buy parks andI'm just not there.
Um, mentally I will, I will do aside note.
There's a lot of hype right nowabout buying mobile home parks.
(11:00):
And it's really not what it'scracked up to be best that I
wanted to ask you.
Like, we've got to talk aboutwhy, you know, the difference
between a dif having the singlefamily mobile home and then the
entire community.
I'm so glad you brought that up.
No, I actually, I had thisconversation with Juan, correct.
He was kind of a mentor to me.
(11:21):
I took him aside.
Um, you know, when he was alive,he passed away a few years ago,
but um, I said, Lonnie, youknow, I've been doing these
mobile.
This is when I was kind ofestablished already for a while
now.
And what do you think aboutbuying mobile home parks?
Because I'm getting a lot ofpeople, um, cause I'm a blogger
and a writer who are asking meto go in on these deals and
(11:43):
other investors.
And they're really pushing meto, you know, partner with them
and let it out.
And Lonnie said, you know what?
You know, that was somethingthat I was thinking about too
with my wife, but we reallywanted to see what was the end
goal, you know, did we want toget stuck with an asset with all
(12:05):
this liability?
You know, because if someonetrips and falls in a mobile home
park or fun training branch,right.
And, and expenses, and I willtell you, I've known people to
have mobile home parks fromsingle family homes they got in.
Then they got out because theygot up one, one person.
He was out of California.
(12:25):
He had a main water pipe, buscost him$60,000.
Thank goodness.
He actually had the funds.
He was able to refinance one ofhis single family homes in
California.
But he's like, Rachel, if I hadnot had that property, I don't
know what I would have done.
So he actually fixed it, got outresoled the park.
(12:48):
So that's one of the thingsthat's kind of stopping, like
talk to Lonnie.
And he said, buy a mobile homepark is really not going to let
me and my wife do what we want,which is travel across country
in an RV.
That was their dream.
And he's like, that's why westarted with the homes.
And then they bought the lot andthen put the homes on them or
(13:09):
that the homes were already onthe lot individual lot, or even
a small piece of land, you know,but our entire mobile home park,
he's like, what if you're in itwith other people, it's kind of
like a marriage, you know, youguys are in it together.
And that's when I realized, youknow what?
I don't even know if I want todo this.
So because the people I'veknown, who've bought large
(13:32):
mobile home parks, they're in itwith other people and they've
had to move their families tothe location.
And then they got out and theywent into something else.
Rachel, you know what just gavewith the Lonnie deals with the
homes or the lot, if you want togo up, but not an entire mobile
home park.
Yeah.
There's a lot of informationabout it right now.
(13:54):
So there's a lot of fun.
There's a lot of people raisingmoney for their funds because
they need people's money to buythese mobile home parks.
So what the strategy is is whatyou, what you love to your
passion or in teaching.
And this is pretty much get ourindividual mobile homes
(14:15):
individually and not the park,not the park.
This is a great lesson.
See you you're teaching mealready.
That is a strategy I need the,just the home, not the part.
Well, for me, I mean, it reallydepends.
I mean, some people want thatkind of life for they're busy
all the time and they don'thave, you know, they just want
(14:35):
to dedicate their lives to workand maybe they don't have a
family or family's notimportant, which is fine, you
know, but that's not the kind oflife that I want to lead.
Right.
And I really flip fall in thefootsteps of Lonnie where I'm
doing this so that I can havethat time to do the things I
want to do not have to do.
(14:58):
Right.
You know, so I don't want to behaving these calls from other
investors I'm in this big mobilehome park with this deal.
And then, you know, some mainline breaks or the tree falls on
these homes, or we have a fire.
I mean, I don't want to dealwith it.
So fulfill us about your firstdeal, buying your first mobile
(15:20):
home.
Sure.
How did you structure this?
Sure.
Well, my first deal, it was atwo bedroom, one bath and it
wasn't a nice mobile home park.
And I will tell you the strategyis if you're going to do this,
don't look for the deal first.
Cause that's what I did in thebeginning.
And it really backfired becausewhat you want to do is create a
(15:40):
relationship with the park.
So whether that be the parkmanager or the park owner create
a relationship and it will, itwon't happen overnight.
It takes time to go in there andintroduce yourself, get to know
the park, have them get to knowyou a little chit chat and you
have to keep going and going andgoing.
(16:02):
So basically for my first deal,it took me about eight months to
do and find my first deal.
And I had already built therelationship with a manager.
So it, it didn't happenovernight.
Okay.
So did you already scout outthat location, that target park
that you were, you wanted to buyyour first mobile home in?
(16:24):
Or did you just like chooseseveral different mobile home
parks and just said build arelationship with all of them?
Yeah.
So in the beginning I had noidea what I was doing.
I went to over 200 mobile in myarea.
So you say there's a lot in yourarea.
There's a lot in mind to wow.
And I'm like, it was hours fromwhere I lived.
(16:46):
Um, some of them, and then fromthere I just built the
relationships.
I mean, I really, at that pointI was like, okay, I'm just going
to build the relationship andwhatever leads come, I'm going
to start looking, you know,meeting with sellers.
So I built the relationship andthen so eight months into it,
you know, it was a two bedroom,one bath in a nice mobile home
park and the sellers, theycalled me.
(17:07):
Um, they wanted to sell theirhome, um, because they needed
something bigger.
Um, they had lived there for 10years.
Um, so they called me and I madean appointment to go see the
home.
So as usual, and now I've got,you know, my background in
single family homes.
So I know what to do in terms ofinspections.
If I did my usual inspection asif I were going to live in the
(17:28):
home myself.
So, you know, I checked thelight, I checked the air
conditioning, the heater.
Um, I checked to make sure thetub was working.
Um, anything that you wouldcheck as a homeowner?
I did the same.
So I checked the insight.
And then when we went out to theoutside, we started going around
the home and I, I saw that therewas an issue, uh, with some of
(17:52):
the siting in one area of thehome, like the wood was rotting
and it was a Hardy board, um,wood, but there was no, um,
there was no, uh, water comingthrough the house.
The sun was hitting it so wouldactually dry out, but it looked
like it needed to be repaired.
(18:12):
It wasn't obvious repair fix.
So, um, after that, you know, Ijust kind of got my, um,
handyman to look at it.
At this point, I had alreadybuilt up a network and he said,
yeah, it'll cost a couplehundred dollars.
So any case to make a long storyshort, um, the sellers wanted to
know if I wanted to buy the homeand I did my due diligence and
(18:34):
my research.
And I said, yes, I do want tobuy the home.
But we know negotiated back andforth, you know, we with the
numbers.
But finally we just came up toan agreement.
Um, I finally bought the homefor$3,600 cash and they even
cleaned it for me, which wasgreat.
(18:55):
Um, that was me actually,because I wanted them to clean
it.
That is crazy.
Like you own the house for$3,600.
Yes.
And then it took me two weeks tofill it and find another family.
And this new family, they gaveme a thousand dollars to move in
and$250 per month for the nextfour and a half years, they were
(19:17):
never late.
And that was my first day.
It was the most memorable onefor me.
And I mean, it wasn't, it didn'tgo smoothly, but you know, you'd
have to learn things, but I wasable to, you know, get it done.
Wow.
So when you, when you buy themobile, when you bought this
mobile home, do you, you do ownthe mobile home and also the
(19:37):
land that it fits on.
Like, is there a survey aroundwhat you own as a, just the
mobile home itself and yourenting the land?
Right, right.
Now, what I do is I justspecifically focus on parks,
parks own the land underneath.
So there's some block grant.
So basically either the personyou put in there pays a lot rent
(20:00):
or you pay the lot rent and youcollect it from the person
paying.
I really don't want to, I'vedone it before that way.
Um, I'd rather have the peoplein the home pay their own lot
rent and then they just pay me.
Whoa, that's smart.
Yeah.
So basically I don't own theland.
It's the part that owns theland.
(20:23):
It's just for the home rightnow.
Now one of the things I amthinking about doing is going
into just buying lots or a smallpiece of land and putting homes
on them.
That's been in the back of myman, my mind for a very long
time.
Yeah.
Kind of like McDonald's have youever seen MacPhail?
Is it the mic founder?
Oh yeah.
(20:44):
Are you a movie buff when itcomes to business movies, you
have my attention.
Anything else I can't getthrough?
If it has to do with money andreal estate, I'm there for it.
You know what I just saw again,this is one of my favorite
movies.
I hope it's okay.
If I say it, the money pit withTom Hanks is on my brain right
(21:04):
now.
I love that I can put it onreplay and it's just anyone
listening to this podcast.
If you haven't seen it, pleasego, Hey, red movie.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
But to answer your question yes.
(21:24):
Kind of like McDonald's yes.
The park owns the land and thenI just own the home.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So how do you determine how muchyour rent is going to be?
Do you have to compare, um, likeI guess the quality of that or
the square footage of the mobilehome or the other rates in that
(21:45):
community park?
How did you know, like thenumbers could work for you
pretty much?
And the answer is really easybecause I have a lot of people
who, you know, they go to myblogs, like, Rachel, how do I
determine, you know, how much Ican get for this home or what
someone can put down for thishome.
I was like, it's really easy.
Just park manager or the owner,another peop person you can ask
(22:08):
as the mobile home dealershipsin the area, because they have
to deal with this all the time.
Oh, the park manager, onceyou've built a rapport with the
park manager or the owner,because it could be the owner in
there.
Um, and, uh, and I will tellyou, you won't know between the
owner and the park manager.
Cause sometimes you know, thatjust the way that, you know,
(22:28):
it's really a people business,they don't, they don't carry
themselves that way.
So, um, you would just ask themand they would tell you another
thing is just go out in theresidence, start talking to
people.
There's a lot of people walktheir dogs in these parks and
it's really like a slower paceof life.
So you can do those things.
(22:49):
It is versus, um, some otherniches and you know, being in a
big city.
And then, then we're like, Oh, Idon't have time for you.
You know, like in these mobilehome parks, I mean, they, people
really do take the time to talkwith you and you know, as long
as you're approachable and yourespect them and you can show
that you respect them, they'rewilling to talk with you in
(23:12):
general.
So just ask people who livethere and maintenance people,
they're like circulating,they're doing things, just ask
them, Hey, you know, um, anddon't say you're an investor.
That's another, that's anotherpet peeve.
I don't say I'm just like aregular person.
Okay.
Now there's people who say, Oh,I'm going to introduce myself as
the investor and be important.
And here's my business card.
(23:32):
And I'm like, I don't even havebusiness card.
So, um, it's all in theapproach.
So people like those who arelike them, and if you can kind
of, you know, just treat peoplelike people, then you're not
going to have a problem in thisbusiness.
(23:53):
Okay.
So because I'm a novice tomobile home parks, I'm still,
comparising comparing that,making a comparison between, I
guess, a mobile home and asingle family.
So here in Georgia, We have[inaudible] our HOA is, do they
(24:14):
exist in mobile home parks, somemobile home parks they do.
And a lot of those ones aregoing to be on the coast.
It's possible in California,anything where it's kind of in a
very, um, uh, high end area.
So with the HOA, you're probablygoing to have even more in lot
(24:37):
rent.
Um, I've heard in California,the lot rent is sometimes as
high as a thousand dollars amonth.
Yeah.
And I've had students who dobusiness in California.
I mean, they can buy the homeless, but it's just having that
lot rent when they havevacancies.
I was like, you know, you justneed to account for that.
And there's people doing dealsin those areas right now, but
(25:01):
yeah, it would depend on thepark.
Um, that's one of the questionsyou want to ask when you talk to
the park manager, you know, whatare the fees associated with the
park?
And they will tell you they havenothing to hide.
Right, right.
So does it typically do, do youcome across, like it's very
common also with these hos hereis you can only have so many
(25:23):
people that can rent in acommunity.
Do they encourage people toactually own the mobile homes or
is there no rent restrictionsand when it comes to mobile home
parks?
Sure.
It depends on the park.
Some parks only want people whoown the homes.
And that was the first, um, thatwas one of my first experiences.
(25:45):
Like, and it, it really turnedme off.
I, I wrote it, um, in my book,um, you can link it in the show
notes, but I wrote about it andthat's something that really
turned me off because I actuallywent and looked for the deal
first, which was my mainmistake.
And then I went to the parkmanager and she was like, no,
(26:07):
you gotta live in the home.
Now you got to live in the home.
And I did it multiple times, notjust once, multiple times.
And it was like, you got to livein the home.
So that's why it's so importantif you're going to do this to
actually go in there and try tobuild rapport with the park
manager or owner, because you'renot going to get along with
(26:27):
everyone.
Right.
And I think that's importantbecause, you know, in an ideal
world it would be great, but weall don't have the same
personalities.
So for me, some people like me,some people don't like me and
it's, it's the same for anyother.
We're all people, you know, andwe all have different
personalities.
(26:48):
We all have different ways ofdoing things.
So the key is to find parks thatyou want to do business in that
you like, um, you feel that itworks with your pals
personality, but at the sametime, you want to make sure the
park manager or owner is someonethat you think can work with
your personality and you canwork with their personal ad
(27:08):
personality because if not, it'snot going to work.
Okay.
So what utilities are ourlandlord's responsible for?
Or does the tenant pretty muchpay all the utilities?
They pretty much, yes.
They pretty much pay off the wayI do it.
I mean, some landlords can do itdifferent, but, um, a lot of
(27:29):
times it's a gas, electric,trash, and uh, um, what am I,
water?
Water.
Water is a big, yeah.
So they're usually responsiblefor all those utilities.
I do some, no, some parks whoactually just included in the
lot rent.
Um, you know, they included itin the lot, rent the utilities.
(27:52):
But, um, as for me, I actually,when I work with people, I tell
them, you know, you do need to,um, pay for utilities and that's
kind of a red flag to whenyou're going out and filling
these homes.
If people call you, I'minterested in your homes and
they ask, well, can you provideall the utilities?
(28:12):
Can you pay for one?
Right.
That's a major red flag for me,unless you're going that route.
But I'm right.
So absolutely.
Cause I was wondering how thatworked.
Like if, cause I'm like, okay, Ican see them just using
unlimited water, taking showers,electricity, wifi, all of that.
(28:33):
And then of course, and they'renot paying for any of that.
Well, one park manager because,okay, so I mean one park owner,
I'm sorry.
Um, he owned the park and hedidn't have it sub-metered so
he, he was kinda like, you payme a lot.
Right?
Your water's included.
And I had people in there, um,it was a small home.
(28:54):
It was a two bedroom, two bath,I believe.
And they would call me, youknow, this owner, he's
ridiculous.
He's knocking on our door.
He wants us to pull theskirting, look for leaks
underneath the house.
He would go to every sink.
This is the owner, not the,every single house.
Hey, you're, you're using up waytoo much water.
(29:15):
Let's look underneath yourhouse.
Wow.
I don't have time for that.
No meter the darn thing.
Right, right.
But he didn't want to deal withit because it was costly and he
didn't want to do improvements.
And that's my other gripe aboutsome of these mobile home parks,
they raised a lot rent, but thenthey don't do the improvements
until the city comes and say,Hey, you need to do this.
(29:38):
And that was my next question.
Like who monitors, like to makesure that, you know, some of
these mobile home parks are inits best shape.
Cause I've seen some parks whereyou have those that are, you
know, it's kind of like HOA.
We have those that are justreally nice.
And you have those where it'slike, okay, is anybody even
living in there?
But someone is, but you couldtell that that landlord or that
(30:00):
owner just has not kept up that,that home.
Right.
And that's my other gripe withsome mobile home park owners who
don't keep up with it.
It really is the community.
Because if you have a strongsense of community, they're
going to go to code codeenforcement through the STEMI
and code enforcement.
They don't go around to theparks and Oh, your skirtings
(30:21):
like that, or, Oh, you need topave the road.
No, they respond to calls.
So the more it gets done, ifthere's a sense of community and
residents, you know, they'rehomeowners.
And there were like, you know,you're raising the lot rent yet.
You're not doing anything toimprove this community.
Then they have a problem.
So they bring it to their city.
(30:42):
They bring it to codeenforcement.
And there's a lot of pushback.
I mean, you hear a lot.
Um, right now the, the hot thingis he is mobile home park owners
raising the rent, the lot renton these parks.
And um, some of these residentsare saying they're raising the
lot rent and the mobile homeparks are.
Yeah, we are because it's not inline, but what are you doing to
(31:04):
improve the community?
And a lot of resonance, mostresidents, they are reasonable.
If you can justify why you'reraising the lot rent and not
just to say, well, it's becauseof the market, but you're
actually taking steps to improvethe community.
If you're improving roads, ifyou're trimming trees, but if
(31:24):
you're not doing anything, whyare you raising the lot rent?
Right.
So, I mean, so that's true.
That's very true because in asense it does affect cause that
not only can affect, I guessthe, the owner of that mobile
home parks value, but it, doesit also have an impact on the
value of your own mobile homethat you own, right?
(31:44):
Yes, exactly.
Well also that, and if there'sresidents in the park and
they're homeowners, they justdon't want to attract like riff
Raff, not all, not all parks aregated.
So if it's not gated and somethings are not kept up, it could
attract a certain type ofexactly.
(32:05):
Hell and they don't want that asa whole.
I wouldn't as a homeownereither.
So yeah.
Yeah.
So Rachel, okay, let's go backto your, your first deal.
How did you finance this?
Well, you had your portfolio,but how would one finance this?
Yes.
At this point, I mean, there's alot of different, um,
philosophies on financing.
(32:26):
And one of my big gripes islike, if you don't have your
personal finances in order, youshould not invest at all.
And that's one of the, I mean,if you know how much money is
coming in, how much money iscoming out and then you're
saving every month, or if youhave a side business where
(32:47):
you're saving enough money to doyour first deal, but in terms of
financing, I D you know, um, the, you can, if you want, I mean,
there's people who've actuallyborrowed against their homes.
I don't recommend it getting ahome equity loan to buy five
mobile homes and I've knowpeople who do that, but I don't
recommend that because thenyou're putting your own personal
(33:11):
assets at risk, um, in terms offinancing.
So my thing is, um, I think it'sbest if you do want to get
started, maybe if you need tobuild up cash, either build it
up through your job and insidebusiness, going out, like what I
did, bird dogging orwholesaling, looking for deals
(33:31):
for other investors withouttaking the risk of buying,
holding.
If you don't have the funds tohold, if something goes wrong in
terms of taking a loan, I don'trecommend it.
You can, but I just really don'trecommend it.
Um, owner financing, Oh, you cango that route if you'd like, but
(33:55):
most times the owner, they wanttheir cash as well, too.
So I mean, the other route isgoing on and taking a partner,
but, you know, candle that hasits own problem.
We're never going to have thatconversation.
So is your strategy looking forturn key mobile homes or are you
(34:16):
looking to possibly, you know,rehab some of them to make some
money going in?
Or can you do that with mobilehomes?
Yes, yes.
Yes.
So for me, I really look forsomething that is not gonna have
that much work.
It's going to have cosmeticissues.
Um, the most I will do is removeand replace.
So basically if the airconditioning is like really old
(34:41):
and it shot, I've replaced anair conditioner, roofs I've
replaced roofs, but in terms oflike gutting the whole place and
just putting, like I knewsomeone, um, he had to put new
flooring all through the housebecause I had the particle
board, you know, they got wetand there were holes and every
(35:03):
single room now I don't go thatroute.
I pass those leads to otherinvestors who are willing to
think, okay, you wholesalemobile homes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Now I've done that up.
Oh, wow.
That is so cool.
So yeah, it's just a matter ofagain, networking.
(35:23):
So, you know, the people wereactually doing deals in the
area, you know, it's just kindof just staying in touch with
them and saying, you know, whatare you looking for and how much
work are you willing to do?
And a lot of this is in my book,like what to ask and I'm sure
you can just link it here in theshow notes, but, um, it's
(35:45):
really, I mean, it's justknowing who to go to with these
deals and then just trying tofind something that fit their
criteria.
It's really basic.
Wow.
This is just so cool.
So how do you ever have anymaintenance calls or do you have
a certain, uh, do you manageyour own properties or do you
(36:05):
have a team that does this foryou?
No, I do it myself and mostpeople because they go in it,
um, knowing that, you know, theyhave that homeowner mentality,
um, that they'll eventually ownit one day.
You know, that was my nextquestion.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Keep going.
So basically it's very minimal.
(36:27):
Now, if there is somethingthat's really like a big expense
and was out of the control, likewe had hail damage to a roof and
I have had a tree fall on a homeand I've had to file a claim on
insurance, but thank goodness noone got hurt.
And then second it was a metalroof.
(36:48):
So really it did minimal damage.
There was a little bit of damageand I got paid, uh, from the
insurance to go ahead and do therepairs on, on everything, what
happened, but it's reallyimportant just to kind of
choose.
And you know, this being in realestate candle, you just need to
go be, um, you know, choosing onwho exactly you put in the homes
(37:11):
in the first place.
You don't want to rush.
It's better to have a vacanthome than to put someone in
there and they're not gonna takecare of it.
And they cut off communication.
You don't want that.
Right.
And I've been there, I've donethat.
And those are big mistakes, butknock on wood, I'm learning from
Lowell.
So, um, but yeah, in terms ofmaintenance calls, it's very
(37:37):
minimal.
It's kind of like 20 rule.
You do have, you know, the, the,the, those 20% that you try to
minimize and they take up 80% ofyour time, but the majority of
people just, they just pay.
And then if there's an issue,they just deal with it.
But they will let me know ifthere is an issue.
And also the park manager playsan important role as well, too.
(38:00):
Okay.
Okay.
So let me ask you this.
When you're looking for yourtenant, does that part manager,
do they already have a list of awaiting list or how do they help
you find those tenants?
A waiting list?
And I actually, you're readingmy mind before when I first
(38:22):
started, but see the managerthere, they're an employee and
they've got things to do.
So they'll take a list.
Yeah.
You know, you, you're lookingfor this three bedrooms or two
bedrooms, but they don't havetime to screen people.
No.
Actually end up being more workthan if you just kind of built
(38:44):
your own list and found your ownpeople.
And that's, what's happenedpretty much, you know, I'm like,
Oh, there's a list of 50 people.
I'm like, do I want to callthese people?
Because they're not, theyhaven't been screened because
the manager doesn't have timefor that.
Or do I just kind of want to seewho calls me?
Cause I just put the sign in thewindow, you know?
(39:06):
Yeah.
That's a great point.
Great point.
Right.
So all depends how much work youwant to do.
So have you set everything up ona system to where I guess if
they have an issue and how theypay rent or communicate, is it
all set up on a website or areyou still old school and you
just have a phone number andthey contact you and pay rent.
(39:26):
How do you, what is your systemfor is, um, I guess just getting
the rent and, uh, dealing with,you know, any maintenance issues
that you might have.
Yeah.
I'm old school like Lonnie, Idon't know.
I still use a fax machine, useemails with the park managers
and the owners.
(39:47):
And I, I really do not use emailwith residents because that is a
night.
That would be a nightmare.
And that's what I was thinkingtoo.
Cause I was thinking like, Idon't see actually, you know, a
lot of email communicationsgoing on, like, Hey, you know,
this isn't working, I see moreof it being a contact, the
contact person.
Exactly.
(40:07):
Exactly.
And if they have an issue,texting does not, they've got to
send a whole statement inwriting to hail to the address,
put their name and they got tojump through the hoops.
If there, if, if it's that bigof an issue for them going to be
(40:29):
like, Oh, I sent you a textmessage now, unless it's like a
major emergency where like thewater spouting out, we've had a
big, yeah.
So, um, that's kinda how Ihandle it again.
It goes back to trying to findthe right people who work with
(40:51):
your personality.
So like if you're in real estatefor as long as you'll learn,
they're high maintenance peopleand low maintenance.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Who you want to work with andthat will affect your career as
a real estate investor goingforward.
So I hope that helps.
(41:11):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
So in Phil, let me ask you this.
And even in mobile homeinvesting, what are the, or do
you still have the same taxadvantages as any other real
estate investor with a singlefamily detached?
I mean, you can, if you want.
(41:31):
And I did talk about that withmy first mentor.
I mean, she taught me prettymuch the ropes on what she does.
I've had several mentors, um, ifyou want, but she didn't go that
route.
She basically told me, well, ifI do it that way, and then I
depreciate everything, then yougotta pay back with the
depreciation capture.
(41:52):
And I know this is not like taxpodcasts, so I'm not going to go
into that.
But, um, it can open up a can ofworms.
So basically what she did wasjust kind of reported it's this
is income in me.
I mean, as long as you'rereporting the income, you know,
I mean, unless you want thosetax breaks, but at this point
(42:13):
you really don't need it as,okay.
That's a, that's a, that's somegreat advice.
Rachel, you love mobile homeinvesting so much that you
created a course around this.
Yes.
Tell us about this course.
Cause I cannot wait to take it.
I'm going to be honest.
I'm taking this course.
(42:34):
Well, yes.
Well basically.
Okay.
So I've been blogging since 2007and um, so I've been writing for
a very long time and throughoutthe years people have asked me,
Rachel, when are you going tohave a course?
Um, I need some training.
Do you have any consulting?
(42:54):
And every year it'd be like, no,I'm just going to continue what
I'm doing.
And every year I kept doingthat, but then it got to a point
where people kept asking me thesame darn questions.
And it was like, okay, well I'lljust write a blog post about it.
But even when I wrote the blogposts, I still pointed people in
(43:14):
those directions, but they hadeven more questions.
So it got to the point wherelike, okay, I need to create a
course.
So my course is basically, um, acourse on mobile home investing,
um, and where it takes someonefrom point a to point B.
(43:35):
And that really is, um, onewhere you create a plan on how
you want to go and pursue, uh,mobile home investing.
And because I, I see a lot ofpeople, you know, they're like,
okay, I'm going to read thesebooks and then should I go talk
to the park manager?
But then they don't even get the, have their finances in order.
(44:00):
So the course, it includespretty much from point a to
point B, how do you even getstarted doing this?
You'll have a plan at the end.
And then it also includes aprivate forum where I go on
there and I answer yourquestions.
(44:21):
So you've got the support andit's very affordable.
And for anyone listening candle,we'll probably put the link in
the show notes.
It's pretty affordable.
Um, you know, as just a gettingstarted
Candle (44:32):
Basic course, it also comes with a 50 page workbook.
And, um,
Rachael (44:39):
And it's a really good resource because if you're also
looking to network with othersor maybe you want a partner or
you want opinions on the dealsthat you're doing, we have that
private forum and vision of thecourse.
So candle will link it up in theshow notes for anyone who wants
to check it out, but it'sreally, it's affordable.
(45:00):
And it's something that I thinkis needed, um, among, you know,
um, the real estate investingspace.
Because if you think about, Imean, a lot of these course, I
mean, like I'm going to pay thatfor that course.
And I've got to spend like anarm and a leg, like a, like a
(45:22):
car, you know, a used car forthis, or, you know what they
want me to, you know, refinancemy house to get money, to pay
for this course.
I mean, it's ridiculous.
I don't think the benefit ofthis,
Candle (45:34):
Not too many people are in this lane.
So it's less pressure, less, um,to make mistakes or, um, because
you're not having to hurry upbecause someone else may put an
offer on that property that youwant to flip, especially in the
Atlanta area.
Cause it's kinda like, okay, yougotta think you gotta be ready.
You gotta go, you gotta go.
You gotta go.
And it's like, no, not for everyinvestor.
(45:56):
Like, um, I think for somepeople they may want to just
take their time and findsomething more, uh, more relaxed
in investing and not as, um, asa, I would say pressured, I
think that's the word as it isin Atlanta with flipping.
And I know it's like this amajor other major cities is
(46:17):
like, you just have to, andsometimes you get into these
deals because of the pressure,the multiple offer situations
that you have and um, justwanting to get your feet wet,
but you make a mistake.
And I think with a mobile home,I mean, if you're not starting
out with a lot of money by$3,200, Oh my God.
Right, right.
(46:37):
I mean, like you said, it's justso laid back.
It's chill is just, yeah.
Is this totally different?
I would love that.
I mean, I really am taking thiscourse.
Rachael (46:45):
I say, I can't wait to get my first mobile home.
Cause I was like, okay, I canjust go out there with flip
flops and say, Hey, try to fillit out.
Mobile home.
Candle (46:54):
Instead of me having to, you know, be on top of
everything and looking at textmessages from wholesalers every
morning to be the first one todo it, no way,
Rachael (47:02):
This is just so much easier.
Exactly, exactly.
And it's one of those thingslike you're kind of in your own
different world, but yeah,you're up out there at the real
estate investment cloud.
People are doing single family.
They're doing multifamily.
They're in these commercialdeals.
I went that route too.
And I'm like, no, I'm not havingthis the road
Candle (47:24):
Less traveled for sure.
No one is on this road, you'rein your own lane.
And think even with your course,I think it's pretty cool that
you have that community becauseI'm pretty sure that you guys
can, you know, be friends reallyquick and say, Hey, what do you
think about that?
And you're not having to worryabout competing.
Rachael (47:42):
Exactly, exactly.
And I will tell you, there'sgoing to be a lot of, like for
anyone who does do look intothis course or mobile home
investing, there's going to be alot of investors out there cause
they're out there and they couldhave their own agenda, but they
say, no, no, no, the money's inowning their dirt, not the home.
There's less than, um, and myquestion would be like, so do
(48:05):
you have an interest?
Do you have a fund for mobilehome parks that you're trying
because it's selling to someoneto someone's it's called, you
know, it's like a long list,man.
This Park's been sold like 10times it's been flipped, you
(48:26):
know?
So I would caution anyone, youknow, who do their due diligence
and research what others sayregarding just getting into the
homes and such, because there'smore to it than meets the eye
with some of these mobile homeparks.
So it's up to the individual.
That's right.
Cause you also wrote a bookabout this as well.
(48:47):
Not even just of course you havea book on Amazon.
Yes.
Yes.
And you'll link it to the shitshow.
Right.
Will be linked.
I do have a book and it'sbasically also just a getting
started, you know, with mobilehomes and um, just kind of, I
mean, if you're just gettinginto the space and you're,
you're interested in learningabout it, um, there's not many
(49:09):
mobile home books out there.
I looked at that last, I heardLonnie Scruggs.
I mean his book was somethingcrazy.
I had a student like, did youknow that Lonnie's book was
like, I mean, it was almost athousand dollars.
I'm like, Oh wow.
I guess information is veryvaluable, but my goodness, you
(49:32):
know, so, but uh, yeah.
If anyone wants to check it out,definitely candle we'll link it
up in the show notes.
It will be available.
Candle (49:43):
So Rachel, I've got to put you in the seat.
You're the teacher, it is awe're fixing to do financially
lit one Oh one where you weregoing to school us on money.
Okay.
I love to get into the minds ofreal estate investors because we
think so differently thanordinary people.
And I think it's so cool.
(50:04):
So, um, my, one of my mentorstold me this and I share it all
the time and just, it changedeverything for me.
Um, she said, if you put sevenreal estate investors in front
of a house, they will give youseven different strategies,
seven different ways to spendthe money 75 ways to make the
money.
And they'll have seven differentgoals with it.
Rachael (50:24):
Oh, that is so true.
And so I'm just, I love talking
Candle (50:28):
To real estate investors because we do, we always have
our own, our own thing going,but it all meets our common
goal.
It helps us meet our financialgoals.
So I have some questions I'mgoing to ask you and it's all
related to finance.
Okay.
You ready?
Okay.
And you can be quick with it oryou could explain it as it's,
Hey, it's your classroom.
However you want to run it.
Okay.
(50:48):
What was the first financialbook?
And you've already mentionedrich dad, poor dad.
I want another book, but afinancial book that changed the
game for you, like change yourmindset and how you operate with
money.
Rachael (51:00):
That one had to be, I mean, it was money and also
business.
The richest man in Babylon.
Yes.
It's really downplayed thatbook, but it really took.
Now if you're in going to be inreal estate for the long haul,
you need to know how to hirepeople.
And that book really, really putthings in perspective.
(51:20):
You don't hire.
I forgot exactly.
But you don't hire a brick layerto make baskets or those
stories, those parables, andI've made so many mistakes in
terms of hiring.
You really need to know whoyou're working with and hire the
right people.
So richest man in Babylondefinitely made an impact on me
(51:41):
as another financial book, uh,for my real estate investing
business.
Candle (51:46):
Nice.
What is one money lesson orprinciple that you learned, but
you did not learn it in school.
One money principle that Ilearned when I did not learn it
in school.
It's not what you make thatcount it's way.
Keep, Ooh, that is so true.
Rachael (52:10):
That is a good one.
That is a very good lesson.
Oh my gosh.
I hope my college students isheard that.
I hope so too.
Candle (52:19):
That is so true.
Okay.
If you had 20,000 right now, uh,I guess the extra stimulus
package deposited into your bankaccount, what would you do with
it?
I would just leave it there forat least six months and just
think about what I want to dowith it.
I would not spend a dime of thatuntil I gave it some thought
(52:41):
smart.
Rachael (52:42):
No, I'm not going to buy a new car.
That is smart.
That is smart because manypeople think once they have it,
they got to do something withit.
I'm going to buy a Tesla.
Yeah.
You are one of the few.
I think you're the first thathas said that they would just
wait.
Yeah.
I would just wait on it and giveit some time, at least six
(53:03):
months, if not a year.
Wow.
Because I'm at the point in mycareer, um, that I don't need
the money and I can pick andchoose what deals I want to do.
I have the time to do the thingsI really want to do.
And that's one thing I wanted totalk to you too.
Um, you know, apart from doinginterviews and writing, you
(53:24):
know, I, I think I, to youbefore about having that
podcast, that's another thingI've been wanting to do for a
very long time.
And here I am, it should belaunching sometime very soon.
So you will love it.
You will love it.
Thank you.
So, Rachel, what is yourultimate goal?
(53:47):
My ultimate goal it's really,this is, and this is, I know
it's repetitive because I keepsaying it and saying it and
saying it, but it's really why Idecided to do mobile home
investing and even real estateinvesting in the first place.
It's not about the money.
It's not how much I make.
It's not even having same frombeing a real estate investor.
(54:10):
It's really about time and thefreedom from money and what
having passive income can do foryou.
And this is what Lani scrubstaught me.
You know, the real, the realreason he went into mobile home
investing was that so him andhis wife could travel the
country, go in the RV.
They weren't thinking about, Oh,I want to buy a Tesla.
(54:30):
I want to buy a mansion.
You know, we want to go, youknow, we want to travel the
world.
They just wanted to go in theirRV and have the time to just
enjoy the little towns acrossAmerica.
And they did that with mobilehome investing.
I don't want to, I don't want tobe that type of investor where
I'm getting cold because I haveall these partners or I have all
(54:51):
these, you know, people thatwork underneath me.
And some people do like thatbecause it does make them feel
important that that's theirgoals, but it's not me.
I want to be able to just havethe time that I wanted to do,
like if I'm writing or if I havethe podcast or say, I just kind
of want to go somewhere on theweekend and read a book versus,
(55:13):
Oh my gosh, I'm on vacation, butI have all these people calling
me.
Right.
Right.
So really it really is about notjust about the money.
It's about time and the freedomfrom money.
That's really, that is anexcellent lesson.
Thank you.
Right.
So that was, you're a greatteacher.
That was good.
(55:33):
That was really good.
I hope so.
I've never heard of it in that,that perspective.
I like that.
It's about the time.
It's not about the money.
No, because I mean, we're allgetting old, you know, we're not
as young as we were, you know,before, and I made sure there's
people listening to this who,you know, the different age
(55:56):
groups, but why it happened sofast, fast, it happened so fast.
It happened so fast and youreally need to just enjoy the
time that you have with thepeople you love and your
friends, because you know, itcould be gone, you know, in a
snap.
You never know.
Right.
(56:17):
But no, you're right.
You're right, right.
It is about the time that's,that's so true.
Candle (56:26):
Yeah.
This passive income and givesyou the time.
Exactly.
And I will tell people, um, youknow, cause I get a lot of this
about to, do you really havepassive income?
Do you just sit back and notanswer phone calls and do
nothing?
No, it's not that I still haveto oversee contractors doing fix
(56:47):
up work.
I still have to move homes.
I still have to screen people,but I'm not working 40, 50, 60
hours a week.
I'm working more if I just havelike a couple properties that
we're working only like 10 to 15hours a week doing this, you
know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
I'm doing this all day.
(57:07):
I, I, the best time for me towork is really in the morning.
So I try to get all my workdone.
Wow.
You know, Rachel, I don't thinkI've even shared this on my
podcast with any guests before,but I think what the light bulb
that came on from me and passiveincome and time was my parents
were real estate investors and Inever, they never pushed it, you
(57:31):
know, on me or my brother.
They just said, okay, dowhatever you want to do.
Um, but we, we grew up in it.
We knew how to evict.
We do how to paint all thatother stuff, but it didn't look
like you're going to have theseproperties.
You've got to buy so manyproperties.
So it was never that, but I wasteaching overseas and my father
was diagnosed with cancer whileI was over there.
And when I came back home, itwas a terminal cancer.
(57:52):
And I remember my dad, we werejust, you know, trying to get,
you know, financial things inorder.
And I currently had a propertythat I had put a tenant in, in
Georgia.
And my parents lived inTennessee and my tenant, we fell
out and I decided to leave theproperty cause she wasn't paying
the rent.
And I was tired of dealing withher it's cause you know, I
(58:13):
didn't wanna deal with thatstress.
I had my father, I wanted tofocus on.
So the house sat vacant and Iremember I was filling my dad.
Well I think I have to go backto Georgia and probably teach
and cause I gotta pay the rent.
All of those things.
My dad said no candle.
That's what we have theseproperties for.
Go collect the rent, pay yourbills and you can stay with me.
(58:33):
And I'm like, this is why wehave investment properties.
I mean the light bulb just cameon because it gave me time with
my father.
And I tell people all the time,this is what real estate
investing can do for you.
It can bring you that money whenyou need it.
So you don't have to give yourtime to other places.
And that right there, that wholeexperience for me, being able to
(58:55):
be my father for an entire yearand not work because we had real
estate properties.
It was like, I'm tellingeverybody about this.
I feel everybody.
This is why you need to have aproperty.
This is why you need passiveincome for this.
So you can make money in yoursleep and you can have time for
more, uh, just opportunities formore moments, for more memories
where otherwise you would beworking and that's not making
(59:17):
you really any memories or, ortime.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Rachael (59:22):
I mean, it's not what you think it is.
I mean, yes, you see thesecourses and these people selling
these courses in front of maybea Ferrari or Lamborghini, like
this is what real estateinvesting could do for you or at
the pool on an Island.
But honestly it's not aboutthat.
(59:42):
It's really not about that.
It's about, and you got it.
It's about yeah.
The time to, to do the thingsthat matter in your life because
we're not, you know, we onlyhave so much time on this earth
to live and the older I get,honestly, candles, I'm like, you
(01:00:03):
know what?
It's true.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And even in these hard timeswith coronavirus and you never
know, Oh yeah.
You know, absolutely.
That's really what it is aboutfor me personally.
And I, I'm glad that you sharethe same vision.
(01:00:23):
It really is to have the timeand I got to get props to want
they scrubbed because that'sreally what he taught me as his
student.
I am doing this and I hopeyou're doing it the same way
because to give you time to dothose things that matter in your
life, not things that don'tmatter in your life.
Absolutely.
You have to do it.
(01:00:45):
It is for the time.
Absolutely.
Well, I thank you for being sucha light on the show today.
Well thank you for having me.
I've really appreciate it.
And um, I know you get this allthe time, but um, I've never met
a person whose name was Kandel.
So very memorable in my mind.
(01:01:06):
Thank you.
Thank you.
So how can people reach out toyou?
Sure they can get ahold of me.
I do have a website it's um,adventures and mobile homes.com
and my handle, if anyone is onsocial media, um, I'm on Twitter
(01:01:29):
and Instagram and my handles thesame.
It's mobile home girl.
Uh, G U R L mobile home girl,all one word word.
Um, and they can follow me thereif you kind of want to get a
play by play on what'shappening.
Nice.
Nice.
And I will make sure that wehave all of your information on
our website too, so they canalso get in touch with you.
(01:01:51):
Okay, great.
Thank you so much for having mecan do I really thank you for
teaching me today so much.
You're welcome to ask me anyquestions.
Anytime about mobile homeinvesting, I will because I'll
be taking your course and thatgroup will tell you all how, how
what'd you thought of it?
(01:02:12):
Oh yeah.
Almost definitely.
Definitely.
Rachel has created a course whatyou need to do
Candle (01:02:20):
To get started in mobile home investing and she is giving
our listeners 50% off the priceto purchase.
This is an amazing deal to takeadvantage of this opportunity.
Just go to candle, locket.comforward slash podcast.
There you will find the linkwith the promo code show notes,
(01:02:40):
and you can also learn moreabout Rachel.
Once you get more tips on how tomake extra streams of income,
create assets, learn how to makemoney work for you.
And when giveaways does sign upfor my newsletter, five things
Friday, just go tocandelabra.com/newsletter.
That's all for now.
Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
They fail.
They fail.
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