Sleigh Bells Or Hells Bells

What happens when one of us is pure Christmas sparkle and the other wants to lock the door, draw the shades, and marathon movies on December 25? The sparks actually make the season make sense. We trace how a postcard-perfect Gen X holiday can coexist with a childhood shaped by hostile relatives, passive-aggressive gifts, and the relief of escape. That honesty opens the door to an unvarnished tour of our favorite winter myths, foods, and rituals—where joy and discomfort sit side by side.

We unpack how the American Santa took shape—from Dutch Sinterklaas to Thomas Nast to the Coca-Cola red suit—and why that icon feels so embedded in U.S. Christmas culture. Then we pivot to Krampus, the horned counterpart who reminds us winter once embraced fear and discipline as part of survival. From Alpine folktales and church plays to today’s Krampus runs and horror films, his comeback hits a Gen X nerve: pushing back against commercial gloss with a wink and a growl.

On the home front, we talk real trees versus fake, ornaments, and the logistics people rarely admit: sap, needles, and who actually takes the tree down. We explore the Great Depression roots of milk-and-cookies for Santa, the colonial evolution of eggnog, turkey’s American lineage, why goose disappointed us, and how pumpkin pie straddles Thanksgiving and Christmas with a spice debate that never ends. Pop culture threads it all together—Little Golden Books, Rudolph, and Frosty—reminding us why holiday stories endure even when adult life complicates them.

If you love Christmas, you’ll find fresh history and cozy nostalgia. If you side-eye it, you’ll hear solidarity, folklore with teeth, and permission to design a holiday that fits your life now. Subscribe, share with the friend who decorates on December 1, and leave a review telling us: are you Team Santa or Team Krampus?

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Two best friends, we're talking fast, we're mixing
to our case, we're having ablast.
Seeing these dreams, be onscreens, it was all bad, but
like you know, it's likewhatever.
Never never never laughing,sharing, our story, whatever.

(00:24):
We'll take you back likewhatever.

SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
Welcome to Like Whatever, a podcast for, by, and
about Gen X.
I'm Nicole, and this is my BFFFHeather.

SPEAKER_06 (00:40):
Hola.

SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
So welcome to our um Christmas uh episode.

SPEAKER_05 (00:48):
Stupid Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
Yes, we will not have any current event chat
beforehand because pre-recordedthis is because pre-recorded
Christmas week is a lot.
Yeah.
As a postal employee, Heather iswill be exhausted, and this is
one less thing she needs on herplate.
So we went ahead and recorded itearly.
So I know you're missing out onwhat we've been up to or what

(01:10):
I've heard on NPR, but you know,you're not gonna get to hear it
this week.
You just have to learn how tolive with it.
So Heather and I have verypolarized um opinions of
Christmas.
Literally the only thing wedisagree on.
It really is.
It's funny because we wanted todo a joint episode um and we
were trying to think of thingswe didn't agree on because we

(01:31):
wanted to do some sort of backand forth thing, and we couldn't
think of anything that we don'tagree on.
Then we found it.
We did.

SPEAKER_06 (01:38):
And you know it's funny because when I describe to
people who we are, I really dosay you are Christmas and I am
Halloween.

SPEAKER_02 (01:46):
And that pretty much sums up who we are.
I know.
I was telling my roommate whatabout this episode, and uh she's
like, Oh, that's such a greatidea.
And uh she said something aboutyour husband probably doesn't
like Christmas.
I said, Oh no, he does.

SPEAKER_06 (02:03):
Everybody I know ever.

SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
Yeah.
I and I was like, How Halloweenis Heather's Christmas.
Yes.
That is her biggest Halloween uhholiday of the year.

SPEAKER_06 (02:11):
I decorate.
Yes, I love all of it.

SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
And I'm a big Christmas geek.
I always have loved it.
Um, and it's not quite as muchfun now that my kids are grown.
Um, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_06 (02:24):
She used to force me to come over and rent presents
with her.
I hated it.
Because I don't know why people,all of them people.
I here's my idea of the mostfantastic Christmas, which I did
have last year, by the way.
My most favorite fantasticalidea of Christmas is that I

(02:44):
spend the day by myself in myapartment with the shades drawn,
locking the whole world out.

SPEAKER_02 (02:52):
You used to go to the movies by yourself, right?

SPEAKER_06 (02:55):
So yes.
I did want to tell you why,because a lot of people are
like, How can you hateChristmas?
And it's not just because I'm aI'm contrary.
Right.
It did have origins.
Um typically we would spendThanksgiving with my mom's
family, and then thusly and thewhole sharing of family

(03:18):
nonsense, we would spendChristmas with my dad's family.
Correct.
Who hated my mother a hundredmillion percent hated her
because in the time the 50s mymom and dad have been together
since they were in middleschool, so like the mid-sixties.
So at the time prior to thatwhen their parents were growing

(03:39):
up, the what are they, thesilent generation?
They should have stayed thatway.
Um there were doling immigrants,one of which being the Irish,
one of which being the Italian.
They did not like each other.
No, especially in theWilmington, Philadelphia area,

(04:01):
which is where they are from.
My father is Irish and English,and my mother is Italian, and
they used to call my mother agreasy dago to her face.
Whatever.
Classy.
Yeah.
So they did not like my mother.

(04:23):
I am the spitting image of mymother.
There are photos of her younger,and you I sometimes I'm like, I
don't even know if that's me oryou.
Yeah.
So I have the same personalityas my mother mostly.
Well, my mother's nicer.
And my dad's temper.

(04:44):
And my mom's smart mouth.
So anyway, they don't like me.
They never liked me.
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (04:50):
They never liked me.

SPEAKER_06 (04:53):
Um, so going to their house for Christmas was
just the most passive-aggressivehorror shit show of all time,
and I dreaded it.
One year for Christmas, theygave a child luggage.
They gave me luggage.

(05:13):
They also one time.

SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
No doubt.

SPEAKER_06 (05:17):
They one time gave me, you know, in the 80s, those
boxes full of makeup.
Oh, I had them.

unknown (05:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (05:24):
They gave me that.
Caboodle.
Yeah.
Oh, the like the things that hadthings that came out, and it was
like every shade of everything.
I don't wear makeup.
Never have.
I did in my goth time, but itwas white and black, and that
was it.
It was a hint.
Yeah, it really was.
One time she asked me if Iwanted to be a boy, and she
would pay for it, which is veryprogressive for her.

(05:47):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
Yes.
Although she probably didn'tmean it that way.

SPEAKER_06 (05:49):
She did not.
She did it in a room full ofpeople in like the early late
80s.

SPEAKER_02 (05:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (05:55):
Yeah.
To embarrass you.
She was a horrible human being.
I hated going there.
My mom finally got fed up withit and said, we're not going
there anymore.
So we had dinner with just thefour of us, but then my dad
would make us go after dinner.
Because my mom, they were notallowed in my mom's house.

(06:15):
Period.
End of story.
Uh so then we would go to theirhouse after after we had dinner.
Then I realized that if I hadsomething to do because I was
driving, I could get out faster.
So I started a tradition where Iwould go to the movies because
the movies is literally the onlything open on Christmas.

(06:39):
So I would go watch whatever.
I think I watched Halloweenonce.
I think I went nightmare beforeChristmas.
I saw I I mean I have I wouldgo.
That I didn't even give a shitwhat was playing.
I just went and sat in a movietheater.
Then uh we got older and we justthen we well for a while we just

(07:01):
decided we weren't goinganymore.
My sister and my dad would go,but my mom and I wouldn't.
That was when I got more vocalabout the my father and I have
had many a fight over hisfamily.
Yeah.
So that is absolutely why I hateit.
I hate the fakeness.
I hate how you hate each otherfor 11 months of the year.

(07:24):
And then for three weeks, youhave to pretend like you give a
flying fuck about anyone else.
Then you say, Oh, happy holiday.
I don't mean happy holidays.
I don't want you to have a happyholiday.
I don't care about your life.
So I also don't like it becauseeverybody wants to put the
Christmas tree up, but nobodywants to take the Christmas tree

(07:46):
down.
And then it becomes a gianthassle.

SPEAKER_02 (07:51):
Yeah.
So I grew up on the oppositeside of that spectrum with the
traditional looking uh Gen X kidChristmas where the house was
all decorated, lights outside,beautiful tree.
Remember Tinsel?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (08:10):
My mom decorated December 1st.

SPEAKER_02 (08:12):
Uh-huh.
She ours was always Thanksgivingweekend.

SPEAKER_06 (08:15):
My mom did wait till December.
It was always the December 1st,you would go to school, and when
you come home, it was like awhole new world.

SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Yeah, but when you were real little, didn't they
wait and put the tree upChristmas Eve?

SPEAKER_06 (08:25):
Christmas, we always put the even when I was well,
when I got older, they it wasthey we would get a real tree.

SPEAKER_03 (08:31):
Okay.

SPEAKER_06 (08:32):
And we would go buy it a couple days before
Christmas Eve, and then it wouldsit in the garage and open, and
then we would put it upChristmas Eve.
Okay.
Um my mom's growing up, Santabrought the tree.
Okay.
I think that's just because Idon't know why.
They just maybe didn't want itup all year.
Who knows?
Who knows where that came from.

SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
But we lived in Delaware, so we would all hop in
the car and take the JerseyTurnpike up to family's house,
and all the cousins and auntsand uncles, and whoever didn't
have a place to stay orcelebrate, everybody was there,
and all the cousins slept in onebedroom all over the floors, and
all everybody was drunk, andeverybody exchanged gifts.

(09:11):
You bought b gifts foreverybody.
So I have a lot of very fondmemories of Christmas.
And then I also had children,which as a mom was a very
magical, magical time to get todo all that stuff and have them
keep on believing for a while.
Yeah.
But yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (09:33):
So we're we're gonna Well, also when I got older, um,
and I found out there was noSanta, my mom was like,
Literally, I will kill you ifyou tell your sister.
And I was like, Cool, I'm not.
And then then it became, well,now that you're old enough, you
can help us wrap your sister'sshit and put it together.
So at like 11, I was putting mysister's shit together.

(09:56):
You really didn't have any goodstuff happen to you at
Christmas.
No.
Um, but here's a funny Christmasstory that is my one of my
favorite Christmas stories.
It didn't happen to me.

SPEAKER_04 (10:04):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 (10:05):
Well, my sister had children.
Um, she loves Christmas too.
She's a Christmas.
I don't, I am the odd one out.
Um, they bought their new house,and they were so excited because
they were gonna buy, they havethis big foyer and it's really
tall, and they were gonna getthis really tall tree, and they
were gonna get before theydidn't have a real tree, this

(10:25):
was gonna be their first realtree.
Super excited.
So they brought it into thehouse to let it open up.
Well, apparently, my poorsister, if you have listened to
any of these, the my sister'sstories are great.
Um, this is her luck.
So the the tree opened, andapparently a praying mantis had

(10:49):
laid eggs in the entirety of thetree.
So when it got warm, they allhatched.
And every time you moved thetree, puffs of praying mantis
would fly out in everydirection, and she is creeped
out by bugs, and they were teenytiny, they are tiny, wee

(11:13):
beautiful, right?
Like the size of your fingernailpraying mantises.
So as they're trying to get thetree outside, they are puffing
praying mantises everywhere, andit literally, I think, sh I
think this has probably been, ohmy god, maybe I don't know how
long they've lived in the house,but the boy is 21, so 18, 17

(11:37):
years.
I think they still find prayingmantises.
It was a very long time, she wassucking up praying mantises, and
you know, I don't know aboutwhere you people live, but we
were always told it was illegalto kill praying mantises, which
seems to be like the thing, GenX, which how we all knew this,
it's not true, right?
Why all our parents decided theywere gonna tell all of us?

(12:00):
Well, so she was like upsetbecause she was killing all
these praying mantis.
Ugh.
Teeny, tiny, wee little prayingmantises covering the wall.
There were millions of them.
She single-handedly had justquadrupled the population of
praying mantises.

(12:20):
Praying mantai.
I don't know.
Anyway, that's that's myfavorite story.
That is a great story.

SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
And did she not realize why your parents opened
it in the garage?
So that is give a few days forthose to get out.
You've met her.
I know.
She's adorable though.

SPEAKER_06 (12:39):
So that's that one is my favorite.
My other thing is um, my mom orSanta would bring my sister and
I the same, like one thing wasexactly the same.
Like one time we had these theyou remember when you would talk
to the flowers and they danced?
We both got them.
Mine worked, hers didn't.
Every time my mom would get us,she got us a clock one year,

(13:01):
mine worked, hers didn't.
Always.
Mine worked, hers didn't.
So she won't she started to dothe same thing with her kids.
She would buy them the exactsame thing, one in different
colors, and her sons neverworked.
Daughters did, sons did not.
And she was like, I know, Idon't know, you're cursed just

(13:22):
like me.
What to tell you?
And she was like, and I wouldbuy one specifically.
Like I would buy it saying,Well, this one will be for the
girl, and this one will be forthe boy.
And she was like, and thenChristmas Eve, I'd switch them
every time.
That's who we are as people.
Superstitious.
The jinx is always gonna findyou.
Yeah, anyway.

(13:43):
That's the short and longversion of why I dislike
Christmas.
And then uh working for the postoffice, and I worked at FedEx
prior to that, and that reallyjust drives it home how much
yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I hate Christmas music.

SPEAKER_02 (13:57):
I listen to Christmas music on the way down
here today.

SPEAKER_06 (14:01):
It just it's too much, it takes over too much.
No, it does.
Why does it have to start inSeptember?

SPEAKER_02 (14:11):
Well, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_06 (14:12):
But get through holidays.

SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah.
I don't like it.
Yeah, I know.
Well, you have good reason.
So the way this is gonna gotoday is I have um went through
some good holiday traditions,kind of seeing where they
started, and I'm gonna get goingfirst.
And then Heather and I are goingto take turns.
I'm gonna talk about funChristmas stuff, and she's gonna

(14:37):
talk about spooky Christmasstuff.

SPEAKER_06 (14:39):
So we should do the let's fuck around and find out
about Christmas?
December 25th.
Yeah, fuck around and find outabout the stupid.

SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
I also think we should drop this one on
Christmas Day.
Is that possible?

SPEAKER_06 (14:52):
Uh, what is it?
It's a Thursday.
Yeah, I can.
Yeah.
I'd like that.

SPEAKER_02 (14:56):
Merry Christmas.
Happy holidays.
She doesn't mean it.
No.
She doesn't hope you have ahappy holiday.
I don't.
I do.
No, she does.
I don't.

SPEAKER_06 (15:07):
I don't care whether your holiday is happy or not.

SPEAKER_02 (15:10):
All right, so really all my information for this one
came fromworldwildschooling.com.
Um so Christmas traditions.
The U.S.
is full of unique Christmastraditions.
From quirky stocking stuffers tofun holiday meals, there's
plenty of exciting historybehind them.
The U.S.
is a melting pot of culturesfrom around the world.

(15:32):
This has created uniquetraditions found nowhere else on
earth.
The stories behind thesetraditions are as exciting as
the traditions themselves.
Uh all right, so the firsttradition I'm going to start
with is the American SantaClaus.

SPEAKER_06 (15:46):
Santa Sandy Claus.

SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
Santa Claus.
Alright, countries around theworld have their Santa-like
character, but in the US hetakes a whole new meaning.
In the U.S., it's hard to findanything Christmas related that
doesn't feature a Santa image.
The American Santa originated inthe 18th century when Dutch
immigrants brought theirSinterklaas or Saint Nicholas

(16:10):
traditions to New York City.
The New York Historical Societycommissioned the artist
Alexander Anderson to depictSanta Claus for an event flyer.
Although the event flopped,Anderson's image stayed in our
popular imagination.
Fast forward to the AmericanCivil War, cartoonist Thomas
Nass drew cartoons depictingSanta as a plump bearded man in

(16:36):
a red suit handing out presents.
The final representation ofSaint Nick was Hadan
Sonderbloom's drawings for theCoca-Cola Company.
These 1930s characters depictedall of the qualities we know and
expect from the American SantaClaus.
Bowl fill of jelly.

(16:57):
Yep, yep, yep.
And Santa Claus Coming to Townis one of my favorite Christmas
cartoons.
And he comes in as Saint Nickand the um It's creepy.
What's his name?
The somethingmeister.
Oh.
But the mayor of the town won'tlet the kids have toys.
And he falls in love with theschool teacher, and she becomes
Mrs.
Claus.
It's so cute.

(17:17):
If you want to hear about ourlast year's Christmas, where she
talks about all those shows.
Yes.
I'm gonna keep talking aboutthem.

SPEAKER_06 (17:25):
I don't remember what the name of that episode
is.
It was Oh, though I the podcastof Miss Fitz Toys.
Yes, yes.
And then I did one, HolyGremlin's Batman, which is an
anti-Christmas episode.

SPEAKER_02 (17:37):
Yep.
Yep.
And this year we combinedanti-Christmas and Christmas.
See how we did that?
See, look at us.
Is it my turn?
Yep.

SPEAKER_06 (17:45):
Imagine the snowbound village of Austria and
Bavaria centuries ago.
Um winter nights stretchedendlessly.
Families gathered aroundflickering hearths, telling
stories to keep the cold at bay.
Among these tales was one ofKrampus, a creature both feared

(18:07):
and respected.
He was no jolly figure.
He was horned like a goat,covered in thick fur, with
cloven hooves and a tongue thatlolled grotesquely from his
mouth.
Chains clattered as he moved,sometimes dragging bells or
carrying a blanket on his back.
No, a basket.
That's not blanket.

SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
He didn't have a blanket.

SPEAKER_06 (18:27):
He did not.
He had a basket.
His purpose was clear.
While Saint Nicholas rewardedthe virtuous Krampus pumblish
publ Krampus punished thewicked.
Naughty children must be whippedwith birch rods, stuffed into
his basket, or carried off intothe snowy night.

(18:49):
He was not simply a Christianinvention.
His roots stretched back intopre-Christian alpine traditions.
Scholars connect him to the wildhunt, a spectral procession of
deities and restless souls saidto sweep through the mountains
during the solstice.
In this way, Krampus embodiedthe raw, untamed force of
nature, chaos, fear, and theremainder that survival in

(19:11):
reminder that survival in thewinter requires discipline.
Krampus originates from centraland eastern alpine traditions,
particularly Austria andGermany, and surrounding
regions.
He is depicted as the hornedhairy creature with fangs,
hooves, and a long tongue.
Comes from the German Krampen,meaning claws, the hints at his

(19:32):
primal bestial nature.
Folklorists argue Krampus maydescend from Alpine pagan
rituals celebrating the Windsorsolstice.

SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
And to be honest, all Christmas traditions come
from pagan.

SPEAKER_05 (19:52):
I was gonna say that.

SPEAKER_06 (19:55):
No, you're right.
I don't know why I don't likeChristmas.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
Because you just it's funny though, because um
here, you know, parents threatentheir kids with the American
Santa Claus.
Santa's not gonna come see youif you don't behave.
But over there, Santa's gonnacome whip you ass, throw you in
a basket, and go toss you in thewoods somewhere.
So that's that's a little moreincentive to behave.

(20:23):
I think so.

SPEAKER_06 (20:27):
Um, when Christianity spread through
Europe, the church didn't eraseKrampus.
Instead, he was absorbed intothe Saint Nicholas tradition,
becoming the saint's darkcounterpart.
Together, they represented thebalance of reward and
punishment, light and shadow,joy and fear.
By the 16th century, Krampus wasfirmly woven into Christian
traditions, symbolizing thedarker counterpart to Saint

(20:48):
Nicholas and embodying thetension between order and chaos.

SPEAKER_02 (20:52):
Interesting.

unknown (20:54):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (20:54):
I wonder when that ended.
Be well, you might get to that,but I definitely didn't learn
anything about Krampus growingup in the church.
I no.
I didn't know about him until Iwas an adult.

SPEAKER_06 (21:06):
Yeah.
The next part I have is justabout the new like what happens
now.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (21:12):
So my turn?
Yeah.

unknown (21:14):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (21:14):
Hit it.
So the next thing I'm going totalk about is uh Christmas tree
decorations.
The most fun part about all ofthis is getting to annoy
Heather.
Um setting up a Christmas treeand covering it with lights and
ornaments is an as American asapple pie.

(21:36):
Although its origins are vague,German immigrants in Bethlehem,
Pennsylvania may have been thefirst community to raise a
Christmas tree in 1747.
Soon tree lighting traditionsswept through the country.
In the 19th century, the firstglass ornaments arrived from
Germany, and Sears and Roebuckstarted making the first fake

(21:59):
Christmas trees for people intough cities in tight city
spaces.
After over harvesting the trees,no get out! Oh, that's what we
humans do.
Um, the nation entered a shortsupply of evergreens, which led
to the first Christmas treefarms.

(22:19):
Today, millions of people in theU.S.
unpack their ornaments andlights, pick a tree from a farm,
and set it up in their livingroom to enjoy.
So I had growing up, we alwayshad a live tree because we had a
wood stove.
So, and then my stepdad at thetime had um the big fancy
gas-powered log splitter, andwe'd all go out into the woods,

(22:41):
and I hated it because he wouldcut up all the wood and we'd
have to pick it up and load upthe thing.
Uh, the trailer.
Um we also had a wood stove.

SPEAKER_06 (22:51):
And then we had wood we didn't have wood, so we had
to have it delivered, and theywould dump it in the yard.
And then you had to stack it.
We had to well, we had to splitit too.

SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
Yeah.
Well, he would just make the cutthem into big logs.
So we're picking up these biglogs, loading them, and then we
come home and he log split them,and then we had to stack them.
Uh, I did love having a woodstove, and at a very young age I
was taught how to get that badboy going.
If you were the first one up inthe morning, you had to get it.
Yeah, because it was cold ashell in that house.
It was.
But uh, we would just go out inthe woods, you know, wherever we

(23:21):
were cutting our wood and cutdown a pine tree.

SPEAKER_06 (23:25):
I had an incident with the um with the wood stove.
I was stoking it and I guess anember came out, and we had just
moved into the house and itburnt a hole in the floor.
So um I went to the closet andcut a hole in the closet under
all the crap and glued it.
Do you know they didn't find ituntil they moved?
Really?

unknown (23:46):
Wow.

SPEAKER_06 (23:48):
It popped up, and my dad was like, What the hell is
this?

SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
And I was like, I was 46 years old, and I was
like, Yeah, but thanks to havinglive trees as a kid, I have no
desire to have a live tree as anadult.
They I also have they shed sobad.
And when you have a wood stove,you have very dry air in your
house.
It's very dry.

(24:11):
So those things die quick.

SPEAKER_06 (24:13):
I am also allergic to pine.
Oh.
So they wreak havoc for like thefirst three days they're there.
My mom also is allergic, sothat's you know, fun.

SPEAKER_02 (24:23):
Well, I don't like my fingers being sticky, so
decorating it was alwaysannoying too, because you get
saple and you that's gross.

SPEAKER_06 (24:30):
Yeah.
I was gonna say something elseabout Christmas trees, but like
them.
Oh, I know what it was.
Okay, our ex-mother-in-law.
Oh I didn't want a Christmastree.
A real Christmas tree.
And when I was with Nicole'sbrother-in-law, um, we had

(24:51):
agreed, because he was a bigChristmas fan, that he could get
a tree because we were livingtogether, but it could not be a
real tree because they havestink and I am allergic to, and
it will take me four days.
And then his mother bought him areal tree.

SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
Yeah, well, I never wanted a Jack Russell and she
brought home a puppy for my son,so you know she didn't she had a
knack for doing things to pissyou off.
Yeah, she did.
Just because the fun of it.
Oh, you never told us that youdidn't.

SPEAKER_05 (25:23):
Sure shit did.

SPEAKER_02 (25:25):
Yeah.
All right, I'm on to the nextone, unless you want to go next.
Go ahead.
All right, so the next one is uhthe tradition of milk and
cookies for Santa, which wasalways so magical to me as a
kid.
Yeah.
And it was really magical to dowith my kids too.
I loved it.
I'd always eat the cookies, ofcourse, and drink the milk.

(25:46):
Make sure to leave extra crumbson the plate and a little milk
in the bottom of the cup.
Um, anyway, the tradition offeeding Santa Claus goes back to
the Dutch feast of SaintNicholas celebrations.
The original treats were likelyfruits and candies, but the
practice made it across theAtlantic by waves of Dutch
immigrants in the 18th and 19thcenturies.

(26:08):
During the Great Depression,children were encouraged to
leave a glass of milk andcookies out for Santa.
What those kids got ate up milkand cookies in the depression.
Uh, this wasn't meant toencourage the practice of giving
to others even during troubledwait, this was meant to
encourage the practice of givingto others even during troubling

(26:30):
times.
I always thought it was becauseSanta was hungry from doing all
those deliveries.
Um the milk but that's a lot ofcookies and milk.
Well, he has a lot of ground tocover.

SPEAKER_06 (26:40):
I know, I'm just saying, like he had to eat a lot
of cookies.

SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
Uh the milk and cookies became symbols of being
grateful for anything theyreceived in return, especially
presents.
Their tradition took hold in theAmerican psyche through popular
films and TV shows.
Today, serving milk and cookiesto Santa is as common for
children in the U.S.
as playing baseball afterschool.
Uh, if you haven't okay.

SPEAKER_06 (27:08):
Well, see, the problem with Krampus is that the
reason we didn't really hearabout it that much is because it
kind of died out becausewhipping children and putting
them in baskets and taking themto the woods was kind of frowned
upon for a while.
So Krampus took a backseat untilrecently.
Okay.
Hit me.
Um today Krampus is celebratedin Krampuslov, Krampus Runs,

(27:34):
where costume participatesparade through towns, scaring
onlookers with elaborate masksand antics.
Uh, greeting cards and popculture since the 19th century,
Krampus has appeared on KrampusCarton, cards, the holiday
cards.
Um, they often humorously depicthim chasing children.

(27:56):
And he in recent decades, he'sfeatured in film, TV shows, and
video games cementing his roleas a pop culture figure.
And I don't remember, it didn'tsay, but I remember like when
Krampus kind of came back.
And it was like, whoa, what wasbut I don't know, it didn't
really say why.

SPEAKER_02 (28:16):
I couldn't really find a definitive the horror
movie industry.
You started falling in love withscary Christmas movies.

SPEAKER_06 (28:23):
That you're not wrong, and I think that that
might be what happened.
Like they were like, Where canwe this is a gold mine right
here?
But it it was it's notdifficult.
Like basically, you find theorigins of Krampus and then
nothing else until we took itback.
Of course, we took it out of it.
Yeah, of course.

(28:44):
Um once confined, at leastthey're not dead.
Once confined to Alpine Europe,Krampus has become an
international phenomenon,embraced in North America and
beyond.
Um cities like Los Angeles andNew York now host Krampus
parades.

(29:05):
Uh Krampus represents more thanjust fear.
He embodies the shadow side ofChristmas, reminding us of
winter traditions, historicallybalanced joy with danger, light
with darkness.
His resurgence reflects afascination with folklore,
eerie, chaotic elements.
I also feel like that's maybewhy because I feel like maybe we
had been pushed so theChristian, Christian, Christian,

(29:30):
or I mean, let's just face it,it's all Christian.
I mean, it's all Christmas.
The whole nobody, the poorJewish people, they have a
holiday too.

SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
Yeah, well, it's supposed to be about
Christianity, but really thatjust means going to church on
Christmas.

SPEAKER_06 (29:45):
Well, and that's just it.
And I think that's just what'sbeen pushed at us.
And then maybe the the cramp ofthings started coming when
probably Gen X was like, youknow what, this is fucking this
is not where this shit camefrom.
This is stupid.
This is the winter solstice.

SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
Yep, yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 (30:04):
And I learned from um HildaGrasse Tyson the other
day that it was um the sun sets.
It's the what 20th?
Yes.
20th or 21st.
22nd.
21st is the shortest day of theyear.
Right.
And it sets.
And then the 25th is when itstarts getting the days start

(30:28):
getting longer.
So that's when it's born a newyear.

SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
Oh that's it.

SPEAKER_06 (30:43):
So on December 21st, the indigenous network, the
indigenous peoples, or whoeveruh anywhere, thought, oh shit,
that's the fucking end.
Yeah.
And then no, here it is on thetwenty-fifth.
It's getting late earlier andlonger, and that's that's why

(31:07):
they stole it.

unknown (31:12):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 (31:13):
Uh probably has a lot to do with the um stress on
um he's the son of God.
I know we can spend days talkingabout this.
I just it's just aninappropriation.

SPEAKER_06 (31:34):
It really is.
I mean, it was just to colonize,so they just picked a day in the
middle of the winter solsticeand then stole it and said, Oh,
this is when our guy was born,huh?
Yay.
Three wise men and a donkey.
And that's not even get startedon how Mary got pregnant.

(31:55):
I mean For real.
Awesome.
If her parents fell for that.
How old was she?
I'm sure it's it's statutoryrape.
Yes, she was either way.
Probably just old enough to gether various, so it's
problematic.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
But what Joseph was like, hey,cool, no problem.
Let's just go into this barn.
And why is she having a baby ina fucking barn?
Because the inn was full.

(32:16):
For a pregnant woman, like theycouldn't be like, well, I guess.
And then she had to have a babyin the hay.

SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
They were assholes back then, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 (32:24):
Stupid.
Sorry to all the Christians.
Not sorry, but it's a weirdthing.

SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
It really is.
It's all very folklorish andfairy talish, and it's hilarious
that people take it as real.

SPEAKER_06 (32:36):
See that that's what it is.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, lighting candles and ohhello.
Yeah.
You're worshiping a giant tree.
Yeah.
Exactly.
You decorated it and killed it.
That's my other issue.
Like this poor tree lived forhow long?
And then you just chopped itdown and stuck it in your living
room and then tossed it outsidefor goats to eat.

SPEAKER_02 (32:58):
Yep, yep.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 (32:59):
I feel bad for the tree.

SPEAKER_02 (33:01):
I know.

SPEAKER_06 (33:01):
I have a issue with inanimate objects, though.
So go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
All right.
So next I'm gonna talk next I'lltalk about the turkey dinner.
Turkey.
We don't have turkey onChristmas.
You have ham.
Ew.
We have there's no protein moreAmerican than turkey.
Their tradition of roast turkeydinners during the holidays
dates back to the Europeancolonies on the East Coast.

(33:27):
It became so popular that itspread to England, replacing the
traditional and extremelydelicious, well, maybe not so
tasty, pickled boar's head.

SPEAKER_06 (33:38):
Maybe that's why we eat hanging.

SPEAKER_02 (33:40):
They were like, whoa, this turkey is way better
than this.

SPEAKER_06 (33:43):
Do we only have turkeys?
Do there's not turkeys overthere?
Is turkeys just here?
I don't know.
I had one run in front of thecar the other day on my way to
work.
I was like, God damn it, turkey,get out of the way.
Yeah, they're all over theplace.
And and remember at therestaurant, we had the whole
group of them that lived outback.

SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
Yep, yep.
Um, along with turkey, many newdishes were introduced.
Favorites like tamales fromMexico, roast goose, and mashed
potatoes became synonymous withChristmas dinner in many places
in the U.S.
So one year my first husband andI decided that we were gonna get
a goose, a Christmas goose.

(34:21):
Because he thought that we livedback in the Middle Ages.
Um, so we went to the localbutcher and ordered it way ahead
of time, and we got it.
And I'm I I'm a pretty goodcook.
I cooked it up all nice, it wasreally pretty, and it was gross.
It was the biggest waste, and itwas like 75 bucks or something.

(34:42):
Like it was really greasy,right?
Yeah, it's not as greasy asduck, but it it just and there
wasn't like a whole lot of meat,and I was like, well.
Um turkey dinners evolved into ahodgepodge of recipes as diverse
as the US today.

SPEAKER_06 (34:59):
Turkeys are only native to the Americas.
Are they really?
They actually were in CentralAmerica and they were brought
up.

unknown (35:06):
Yep.

SPEAKER_06 (35:07):
Oh, that see, thanks for looking that up.

SPEAKER_02 (35:10):
Um, today you can find Christmas turkey dinner at
households and restaurantsthroughout the season from
special turkey sandwiches.
I love a cold turkey sandwich onwhite bread with mayonnaise.
I do like a cold, I like it withketchup.
Oh, okay.
You like ketchup on everything.
I like ketchup.

unknown (35:25):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (35:26):
Uh to turkey flavored chips.
As soon as Christmas comes,you'll find the big bird in
almost everything.
And piggybacking off of that,I'm gonna talk about something I
know you like.
Okay.
Pumpkin pie.
I do like pumpkin pie.
Like turkey pumpkin.
Pumpkins are native to theAmericas.

(35:46):
Uh, the colonizing Europeanslearned about them from the
indigenous Americans uh whoalready had several delicious
uses.
Delicious uses.
Uh it wasn't long before theEuropeans decided to sweeten
them up a bit.
Pumpkin pie likely or originatedin the colonies.
The first mention of the dish isin the 1996 Classic American

(36:13):
Cookery by Amelia Simmons.
The recipe is closely related tothe modern one we use today.
Although the pie becamesynonymous with Thanksgiving, it
was hugely popular on Christmasand even spiced up more by some
home cooks.
Today, pumpkin pie is enjoyed atChristmas celebrations and
holiday menus across the countryfrom Thanksgiving to Christmas.

(36:36):
And it's funny because I justhad a um conversation about the
spiciness of pumpkin pies withmy stepmom while I was down in
Florida.
Uh-huh.
And we both agree we don't likeit too spicy.

SPEAKER_05 (36:47):
I like it spicy.

SPEAKER_02 (36:48):
Do you?
Uh-huh.
Yeah, we both like it.
We want to taste the pumpkin.

SPEAKER_06 (36:52):
I do not.

SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
With just a hint of flavor.
But yeah.
I like it spicy.
I think I'm gonna make ahomemade pumpkin pie soon.
I haven't made one in years.
I like pumpkin pie.

SPEAKER_06 (37:05):
I like the food that's with Christmas, except
cranberries.
I don't like cranberries.

SPEAKER_02 (37:10):
I'm not a big fan of cranberries, they're too tart.

SPEAKER_06 (37:13):
In growing up, though, the Italian tradition is
the Feast of the Seven Fishes onChristmas Eve.
Are you talking about that?

SPEAKER_02 (37:21):
No.

SPEAKER_06 (37:22):
Okay, that is um the Feast of Seven Fishes.
Seven different fish.
And you serve throughout theevening.
I would enjoy that.
Uh my cousin does it.
We don't, because obviously me.
Um I can't eat them.
So there is no seven fishes.
But that is traditional umChristmas Eve in the Italian

(37:45):
household.
But we always did lasagna.

SPEAKER_02 (37:48):
Yeah.
I think that's what uh me and mykids talked about doing this
year is lasagna.
Lasagna is just so much easier.

unknown (37:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (37:59):
Right now we should probably take a moment to listen
to what's going on in the Cole'suniverse.

SPEAKER_05 (38:06):
Let's hear that song.

SPEAKER_02 (38:25):
All right, so today we are at April 9th, 1984, which
was a Monday.
Monday.
All right.
Today we had to go back tocrummy old school again.

SPEAKER_05 (38:35):
Son of a bitch.

SPEAKER_02 (38:37):
And crummy old Miss Foxes.
Oh.
Somebody woke up on the wrongside of the bed this day.
Miss Bailey was finally there.

unknown (38:46):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (38:47):
Great.
So she lived a while.
We find out now she lives.
She lives.

SPEAKER_04 (38:52):
She's alive.

SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
Today we had band.
In science, we made our oceanfolders.
In math, we told jokes, and itwas me, Tony, and Tanya.
Uh today when mom picked me up,we went to the grocery store.
When we got home, we went outand planted our plants in the
front yard.
For dinner, we had a picnic atthe kitchen table.

SPEAKER_06 (39:15):
Oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 (39:17):
Isn't that just dinner?
Yeah, I guess.
Uh, and before we went to bed,we had some lifesavers.
Oh, yeah.
Nice.
Yeah, yeah.
Exciting day on April 9th.

SPEAKER_06 (39:28):
Here's the funniest part.
Because we're recording thisearly, she had to go through and
count out how many.
So we don't actually know whathas happened.
What's let yeah.
You know.

SPEAKER_02 (39:35):
The suspense is killing us.
But we don't know what happenedprior to April 9th.
Yeah.
Hopefully something crazy inthere happened.

SPEAKER_06 (39:43):
What we just know the last time we looked at her
book, her teacher was still outand we didn't know if she was
alive or not.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So yeah.
The suspense is now over.
Yeah.
Thank goodness.
Live.

SPEAKER_02 (39:57):
So that's it for this week's edition of

SPEAKER_06 (40:00):
Nicole's diehard.
I loved going to the grocerystore.
It's my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (40:03):
Yeah, me too.
Because you got to pick whatcereal.

SPEAKER_02 (40:07):
I don't know if you did, but I did.
Well, you got name brandcereals.
I got the cheap knockoffs.

SPEAKER_06 (40:11):
And I still won't eat the goddamn cheap knockoff.
They're gross.
I don't thank you.
Thank you for saying it.
Because the cheap frosted flakesdo not have enough sugar on
them.
The cheap fruit loops just tastefucking weird.
Gross.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
Yeah, super gross.

SPEAKER_06 (40:25):
The tricks?
No.
No.
Just no.

SPEAKER_02 (40:28):
Even like the race krispies and stuff.
It's all weird.
Yeah, it's not good.
It's not good.
Yep, I'm with you.

unknown (40:35):
Okay.
All right.

SPEAKER_06 (40:35):
Tell us a little more about Krampus Flow.
Um on December 5th, Alpine Townstill erupt in Crown
Krampusflow.
A wild, wild parade wherecostume revelers stomp through
the streets in elaborate masksand shaggy suits.
That sounds super fun.
They chase onlookers, clangcowbells, and keep alive the

(40:56):
thrill of fear.
But now with laughter mixed in.
And I think that if also if weget famous, then we absolutely
have to go and have a Krampusparade.
Yes, that sounds amazing.
Um, in the 19th century, Krampusappeared on Krampus Carton.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, that's what Oh, CheekyHoliday postcards that often

(41:18):
depicted him dragging childrenor playfully flirting with
women.
Ooh, perf.
They these cards softened hisimage, turning him into a
mischievous character ratherthan a purely terrifying one.
With hooves and and horns and along tongue.
Well, if you I did look at someof the stuff, and yes, back in
the way back, he was horrific.

(41:40):
Like it was like, whoa.
Um, there's a grate on Amazonhas a grate, and I hope at this
point, if you're hearing this, Ihave already bought it because I
need to have it.
It is Krampus and Santa Clausstanding like portrait style
together with the Christmas treein the back.
And I need it and need to ownit.

(42:02):
Because you can't say, no, youcan't put that up because
there's fucking Santa Claus init.
So there you go.
I love it.
Hopefully, I have that.
Um in the recent decades, he hasstarred in horror films, TV
episodes, comic books, and evenvideo games.
He's become a symbol for thosewho prefer their holidays with a
dash of darkness, acounterbalance to the sugary

(42:23):
sweetness of Santa Claus.
Um, winter festivals have alwaysbeen about more than joy.
They're about survival,community, and facing the
darkness together.
Krampus embodies the idea thateven in times of celebration, we
must acknowledge the shadow sideof life.
Um for Gen Xers, Krampusresonates because he represents

(42:46):
the counterculture of Christmas.
He's the punk rock to Santa'spop ballad.
And that's why I love him.
Um he can be both comforting andunsettling.
Um his horns and chains echo therebellious streak that thrives
in every generation, especiallywhen holidays risk becoming too
commercial or sanitized.

(43:10):
But so he is now globallycelebrated.
And I guess that's why he like Isaid, there is not a lot between
the 16th century becauseChristians came in and took it
all.

SPEAKER_02 (43:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (43:24):
So it wasn't.
And then, like I said before,Gen X decided that hey, we
fucking hate this nonsense.
Well, let's bring him back.
So I think that's that's he isrisen.
It is very difficult to findanything in between.
Poor Krampus.
I know.
I'm bringing him back.

(43:44):
Fuck that.
Bringing Krampus back.
There was some great shirts.
Christmas I I if I have moremoney, I would be buying some
Krampus shit and wearing it tofucking work.
I mean my whole Decemberwardrobe.
I did put some shit in my cartthough.
There was a um an ornament.
Mm-hmm.

(44:05):
Yeah.
That's going on the tree I haveto have in my house.

SPEAKER_02 (44:08):
Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_06 (44:09):
It's gonna sneak in there.
That drew in little touch.

SPEAKER_02 (44:11):
Yeah.
All right, so next we're gonnatalk about eggnog.
I know you don't like eggnog.
I do not like eggnog.
I knew that.
And I actually don't care for iteither.
It has nothing to do with thetaste, it has to do with that.
It feels like you're swallowinglogies while you're thick.
Too thick.
Um, it smells good.

(44:31):
Um, a version of eggnogoriginated in medieval England
during banquets and festivities.
Um then in the 18th century,ships set sail for the American
colonies, bringing their strangerecipes with them.
I thought they were gonna saybringing um eggnog with them.
I was like, oh, I bet thattasted good by the time they got
there.

(44:57):
Probably.
Yeah.
If you make it like from screwwheels.

SPEAKER_06 (45:01):
Ah, you know what I made the other day?
I made butter.
I did.
You're so cool.
I know I'm did it taste good.
It was really fucking good.
I know.
I was actually very impressedwith it.
It took me four fucking ever,but that was because I did not
realize I did not make the bowlas cold as the bowl needed to
be.
So it didn't emulsify.
Anyway, yes, it was very good.

SPEAKER_02 (45:22):
Yeah, I'm not a patient cook.
Like I've tried to make candies,but you have to get it to just
the right temp and at the righttime, and I'm not patient
enough.

SPEAKER_06 (45:29):
I do think though, next time I'm not gonna take it
to the solid butter because thatdid take, and now what am I
gonna do with the buttermilk?
Um so I think I'm gonna stop atthe whipped butter stage.
Because A, it makes a lot more,and B, it spreads easier.
Whipped butter's delicious.
Man, we had mashed potatoes withit the other day.

(45:49):
Oh my god, it was really good.
So it's stupid easy to make.
You just keep whipping the creamforever.
Yeah.
Until it's a little spies.
It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 (46:00):
You didn't use a churn.
I did not.

SPEAKER_06 (46:03):
Oh, okay.
All right.
I started using a hand mixer.
The the one with the oneemulsion.
Right.
But I have a beater on it.
Uh-huh.
Um, because I don't know why mystand mixer doesn't work.
Um, you know, I know why.
Because the I can't find thebeat.
I had the beater.
No, I didn't have the beater,and I try to find a beater, but

(46:24):
because my stand mixer is like30 years old, they don't make
that beater anymore.
I need to just get rid of it.
I don't know why it's stillsitting there.
But anyway, okay.
I used then I had to use aregular.
It takes a really long time.

SPEAKER_02 (46:36):
Yeah.
Uh almost every community had adairy farm, and rum was easy to
come by.
Uh, the English colonizers couldmix cream, egg yolks, and rum to
create a warming cocktail thathad to help the brutal New
England winners.
My face was like cringing as Iwas reading that.

SPEAKER_06 (46:55):
I just I I I don't I guess I shouldn't back that up
because I was gonna say I findit gross to have cream with any
alcohol, but then I rememberthat I like Bailey's and I like
espresso teen.

SPEAKER_02 (47:08):
You like white Russians too, don't you?

SPEAKER_06 (47:10):
I do not like white Russians.
What is in it?
Is it vodka?

SPEAKER_02 (47:13):
It's vodka.
Yeah, I don't like that.
Um what's the black stuff?

SPEAKER_06 (47:19):
Espresso uh Kahlua Kahlua and cream.
So I my mom drinks Klua andcream.
Um I like an espresso tini withsome baileys, and I like the um
the Godiva chocolate liqueur.
I like chocolatinis.
Chocolatinis.
And then you throw a littleespresso martini, a little um

(47:41):
espresso vodka in there, and youcan't.

SPEAKER_02 (47:43):
Yeah, my daughter loves espresso martinis.
Um, anyway, as spices becameeasier to find, people started
adding nutmeg and cinnamon tothe mixture.
Ooh, before that was just thecream, egg, and rum.
Disgusting.
Um eggnog recipes becamehousehold traditions, and stores
started carrying their ownpasteurized versions.
Today it's hard to find an auntor uncle at a U.S.

(48:06):
holiday gathering who hasn't hada too few many cups of the
creamy beverage.
My favorite thing I think ofwhen I think of eggnog is um the
movie Christmas Vacation.
And uh when uh Cliff not Cliff.
What was his name?
Anyway, he's over there with themoose thing just scooping up

(48:29):
eggnog and sucking it down.

SPEAKER_06 (48:32):
My I don't come from a family of well, my mom and dad
don't drink.
Um Right.
My my uncle and my aunt alittle, but I don't think they
ever had they're never here forChristmas anyway, so they go
away for Christmas.

SPEAKER_05 (48:45):
They usually cruise.
Since my uncle died, they wentcruising.

SPEAKER_06 (48:50):
Nice.
But we don't have we don't havedrinkers, so they never had I
never had eggnog in the house.

SPEAKER_02 (48:55):
Even non-alco they have non-alcoholic, they sell it
in the grocery store now, sowell I I grew up around a bunch
of alcoholics, so I'm prettysure there was probably eggnog
around.
But yeah, I've never been a fan.
It just looks gross, it smellsgross.
All right, give us some moreKrampus.
I don't have any more Krampus.
Oh, okay.
That was it.
All right, well, I had to tellyou.

(49:16):
Well, good, that workedliterally.

SPEAKER_06 (49:19):
Then and now nothing in return.

SPEAKER_02 (49:21):
All right, I have one more thing, I one more
memory I want to share because Ilove it.
All right, so did you ever havethe little um little golden
books?
Yeah.
Christmas books under your didyou keep them under the
Christmas tree?
No.
Okay.
So we had the Christmas ones,and they always got packed up
every Christmas, and I was justgiddy to read them all when
Christmas came, and they alwaysstayed under the tree, and I did

(49:43):
the same thing with my kids, andI still have them.
Um, but long before theseChristmas time favorites starred
on television, Rudolph andFrosty each told their story in
little golden books.
Since 1942, little golden bookshave been a staple on a
childhood bookshelf.
First priced at 25 cents, theseries also introduced longtime

favorites (50:05):
the Pokey Little Puppy, Scuffy the Tugboat,
Toodle, and The Saggy BaggyElephant.
Uh, written as a 32-page poem byRobert L.
May and illustrated by DenverGillen, Rudolph the Red-Nosed
Reindeer was first published in1939 as a promotional giveaway
to children visiting Santa atMontgomery Ward's department

(50:27):
stores.

SPEAKER_06 (50:27):
Remember Montgomery Wards.

SPEAKER_02 (50:29):
I do too.
Um May worked as a copyright inWard's catalog division in
Chicago.
He had a four-year-old daughterand a wife ill with cancer when
he created Rudolph.
The book was an instant hit withnearly 2.5 million distributed
nationwide the first year.
The book was distributed againthe following year before

(50:50):
Montgomery Wards moved on to anew campaign, leaving May with
the sole rights to thecharacter.
Lucky him.
A decade later, Rudolph regainedits popularity when May's
brother-in-law, Johnny Marks,composed the same titled song
that was recorded by singingcowboy Gene Autry.
The song topped the charts in1949, selling 25 million copies.

(51:14):
Heather looks so bored rightnow.

SPEAKER_06 (51:16):
I just think I can sing it in French.

SPEAKER_02 (51:18):
Oh, okay.
The following year, Autry waslooking for another holiday song
when songwriters Walter JackRollins and Steve Nelson
approached him with their newtune, Frosty the Snowman.
Joined by Autry's Cass CountyBoys, the song was a hit with
Autry's version outsellingadditional versions by Jimmy

(51:41):
Durante.
It's Durant, isn't it?
No, it's Durante.
Oh, okay.
I usually get them wrong.
Natkin Cole and Guy Lombardo.
Little Golden Books publishedFrosty the Snowman in 1951,
written by Anne Bedford withillustrations by Corinne
Malvern.
The story expands on the song asBilly, Sally, Tommy, and Joe

(52:02):
build Frosty, then take himaround town after he comes to
life.
Frosty's story was expandedagain in 1969 in a 30-minute
cartoon special produced byRankin Bass Productions.

(52:23):
They all mess together.

SPEAKER_06 (52:24):
Snowman or Snowman or Snowman.

SPEAKER_02 (52:27):
And I like the Frosty the Snowman cartoon, but
I think Frosty is super annoyingin that one.
Like I don't know why they madehim like that.
But anyway.
Published in 1958, Rudolph theRed Nosed Reindeer, Little
Golden Books version, waswritten by Barbara Shook Hazen
and illustrated by RichardScary, who would go on to

(52:48):
illustrate numerous book titlesfor children.
In 1964, Rudolph appeared inVideocraft International's stop
motion Christmas televisionspecial featuring new
characters, Herm the Elf andYukon Cornelius.

SPEAKER_05 (53:02):
The Island of Misfit Toys.
Yep.
Or you can listen to the podcastof Misfit Toys from one year
ago.

SPEAKER_02 (53:09):
I was just talking about Hermie with my dad because
we saw somebody and he's like,he looks like Hermy the Elf.
My dad thinks everybody lookslike somebody funny looking.
Um Little Golden Books stillpublishes both Frosty and
Rudolph titled books using themore familiar character versions
introduced in the televisionprograms.

SPEAKER_06 (53:28):
I did I did skip over some Krampus.
Oh, yay, more Krampus.
Because here's my excuse, guys.
Because half of this, for somereason, is in white, and the
other half is in green.
And I got distracted by thegreen.
Um Krampus is in Norsemythology.

(53:49):
Uh Krampus is said to be the sonof hell, the North Norse got
Norse goddess of the underworld,which ties him to death and
punishment.
Nice.
Uh, medieval times, church playsand mass devils.
By the Middle Ages, mass devilswere common in church plays
across Germany.
They combined comic antics withfrightening imagery, paving the

(54:09):
way for Krampus's role as afolklore punisher.
He's a companion of SaintNicholas on uh Krampus Night,
December 5th.
Uh Krampus accompanies SaintNicholas.
While Nicholas rewards goodchildren with gifts, Krampus
punishes the naughty.
We talked about that withBirchrods and being carried
away.
Um around the 11th century,Saint Nicholas became popular in

(54:33):
Germany.
By the 16th century, Krampus wasfirmly attached to Nicholas's
feast day, appearing on Krampusnight, December 5th, to punish
misbehaving children.
Uh blending trad Australians andBavarians recognized heathen
elements in Krampus,acknowledging that pagan spirits
had been assimilated intoChristian costumes.

SPEAKER_02 (54:56):
So what other?
I'm trying to think of whatother you have train sets.
What's that about?

SPEAKER_06 (55:01):
We had a train.
My dad loves a fucking train.

SPEAKER_02 (55:03):
My dad loves trains too.

SPEAKER_06 (55:04):
It's like a but it was a boomer thing, I think.

SPEAKER_02 (55:07):
Yeah, and he had just the best train.
I still remember the big whiteboard it was on my little track,
and my dad would lay right thereon the floor, and he And the
thing always went off the rails.

SPEAKER_06 (55:17):
Always.

SPEAKER_02 (55:18):
Always if you got it going too fast.

SPEAKER_06 (55:21):
Anytime.
Yeah.
Just went off the rails.
We had the little one.
Because there's different sizes.
Uh-huh.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't even know where theirtrains are.
They're probably worth a wholefuck ton of money.
Oh yeah.
Because they're old.
They were like his trains as akid.

SPEAKER_02 (55:37):
And people take train collecting very seriously.
Very seriously.
I don't get it, but I don'tknow.
Yeah, if you have a certaincaboose or engine, I'll bet.
I know.
They don't even do caboosesanymore.
Like in real life.
Really?
No.
Huh.
Those trains you see going by,there's never a caboose on them.

SPEAKER_06 (55:53):
It's always an engine, right?
Because they go a lot of times.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I don't really see trains thatmuch.

SPEAKER_02 (55:59):
I when I growing up, my dad's house was literally
there were railroad tracks, alittle ditch, a one-lane road,
and then our front yard.
So I mean the whole house shookwhen the train went by.
But I used to love to run outand wave to the guy.
He was always hanging off theback of the caboose and just
waving.
It's just like a movie.

SPEAKER_06 (56:19):
We don't have trains.
Oh, we do, but they're inlandand they're all chicken trains.
So they just load it withgrains.
We didn't have any real trains.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
You missed out.
Trying to think of what elseChristmas crap.
We did.
I know December 1st was thebeginning of the end for me.

SPEAKER_02 (56:41):
Tinsel got everywhere.
And the cats ate it and thenpooped it out.
I didn't have cats.
Had a dog.
We had cats.
Did your dog eat it?
No.
Okay.

unknown (56:51):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (56:52):
What did you do after like opening presents in
the morning?
Um, mom and dad would go back tosleep.

SPEAKER_06 (57:01):
And and my sister and I would just sit up and play
with whatever because youusually we had to go we had a
rule.
What was what was your time?
Because we had we were notallowed to wake anybody up
before 6 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 (57:12):
Yes.
And I was always the first oneawake.
And then my parents would wakeup and my sister would still be
asleep.
And my mom would be like, Wecan't do anything until she
wakes up.
And I'd be in there like, wakeup.

SPEAKER_06 (57:26):
Well, my dad back then did not like if you could
you there was no sneaking out ofmy house.
My dad can hear literallyanything.
And one year he got my mom apiano for Christmas.
How they got the thing in thehouse, up the front step.
I have no idea.
Without the dog barking, I donot know.
Wow.
But he did.

(57:47):
And my sister and I came aroundthe corner and it had a big bow
on it.
And I was just like, I didn'teven get like out of my mouth.
And he appears at the top of thesteps and said, do not touch it.

SPEAKER_03 (58:01):
It was like, I wasn't going.

SPEAKER_06 (58:04):
But I had my greasy little hands like right over top
of it, like I'm about to hitthat thing.
Um, I don't know how we got itin the house.
It's heavy it took it took likefive of us to get it out of the
house when they moved.
And she never plays it anymore.
She used to play it, it was nicebecause she used to play it.

(58:24):
Um, of course, my parents areweird.
So instead of regular sheetmusic, she has like the eagles,
um, she plays like actual stuff.
So anyway, I like because it wasso warm with the wood stove, she
would play and I would just fallasleep on the every time she

(58:45):
would start playing, it wouldjust like boom, knock me out.
I would come over to visit, andI'd be like, Hey mom, why don't
you play the piano?
I'm tired.
Yeah, I need I could use it.
That house, I don't know if itwas like carbon monoxide fumes
or what.
It was impossible to get out ofthere without taking a nap.
It's like the greatest nap,please.

SPEAKER_02 (59:05):
I know I'm not a napper, but when I was down with
my folks this week, well, forone thing, they keep their
thermostat on 77.
I'm not joking.
It's 77.
On the last night, my stepmomwas kind enough to turn it down
to 76 for me before I went tobed.
But yeah, me, Janet has picturesof me and my dad just passed

(59:25):
out.
We'd come home in the middle ofthe day and take a little snooze
on the couch.
What would you do after youunwrap presents?
Do you have to go to church?
We went to church at midnightmass for the candlelight,
candlelight service.
Um I don't really remember.
I think we just I don't nothinglike sticks out specific in my

(59:48):
mind.
I would guess we probably havebreakfast, but I mean we didn't.

SPEAKER_06 (59:53):
Well they went to they just went back to sleep.
Um my dad is an early riser, mymom is an

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:01):
I always went to see my dad on Christmas Eve.
So I wouldn't have been goingthere.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:09):
We were allowed to open one present on Christmas
Eve, also.
But not a big one.
Or the stocking.
Like we could open our stockinggarbage.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:18):
That's what I did with my kids when they'd get up
while I was like brushing myteeth and making coffee.
They were allowed to get intotheir stockings.

SPEAKER_06 (01:00:26):
So well, that was one thing also we were allowed
to do.
Like when we got up.
And if it was before six,because it was always before
six.
Because uh I always get upbefore six, period.
Yeah.
So I in order to because you'dhave to watch that clock, like I
cannot go up there until but sothey would leave like a couple
things unwrapped, and you couldyou could mess with that.

(01:00:49):
Okay.
Yeah, we were allowed to touchthe things that were not
wrapped.
And of course, my dad would makelike the biggest, hugest
spectacle out of you had to goget a trash bag, and you had to
get this and you had to do that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:03):
I know, and you had to pick out like give every
piece of wrapping paper as youripped it off.
I always just let my kids gonuts, and then I went around and
cleaned it up afterward.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then when we got older, um,after I moved out, my sister
would call.
We lived two minutes away, andshe would call and she'd be
like, Are you are you up?
And I'd be like, Yeah, yeah.
Well, why aren't you here?
I was like, Why are you up?
Because she did not, she was nota morning person.

(01:01:34):
She'd be like, 'cause it'sChristmas.
Or she'd call and she'd just belike, It's Christmas.
And my roommate, Christine,would just be like, your fucking
sister called.
She'd be like, it's Christmas.
She was all Christine was also abig fan of Christmas.
Yeah.

(01:01:54):
I'm surrounded.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's what we did.
We'd he would buy um when we gotolder, like teenage and up, um,
obviously you weren't getting asmany gifts, but it would be uh
we got gifts until she had kidsand then that stopped.
Um he would buy like somethingthat you needed.

(01:02:17):
Like one year he wrapped atoilet seat for her for the
bathroom.
I got a jack for my car.
So it was like shit you actuallyneeded.
And then it would just bewrapped on the tree.
Or he'd already given it to you,and he just wrapped wrapped it.
I've been using this already,though.
He'd be like, Yeah, I bought itfor you.

(01:02:39):
It's your Christmas present.
And then we would spend NewYear's, we would go to
Pennsylvania and go to like myaunt and uncle's, and then we
would do the rounds up there forNew Year's.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:54):
Yeah.
Yep.
They went to we would go aftermy mom's parents died.
We would travel forThanksgiving.
We went to Florida every year.
Um, my aunt, uncle, and cousinwould meet us down there.
Cause they flew.
They didn't have a cool van likewe did.

(01:03:15):
Anyway.
I'm trying to think of whatelse.
Did you have what how did youdecorate your tree?
Did you have like a specificlike we had to eat we had
specific ornaments that wereonly ours?
Like I had like I'm sure it wasnot this was when I was older
too.
Nightmare before Christmas orWinnie the Pooh.
I'm a big Winnie the Pooh fan.

(01:03:36):
So those were my ornaments toput up.
And after I stopped giving ashit about Christmas, which was
like 10, 11, I would just put myornaments up and then be done
with the whole situation.
Or it was like shit we had madewhen we were kids that she still
had.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't I don't remember havingany special ones.
But I did when my kids werelittle, I would let them
decorate the tree, and then oncethey went to bed, I'd fix it.

unknown (01:04:01):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:02):
Because there would be like 10 ornaments on one
branch.

SPEAKER_06 (01:04:06):
Zero on the back.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:04:09):
Because you get tired of it after a while and
you're like, you know what?
There's 15 more in here.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:13):
I know.
I I do get like that.
And you start running, like youreyes can't see spaces anymore.
You're backing up and looking,like, where can I even put this
thing?
And you go to put it and yourealize there's a ball right
there, and you're like, damn it.
That's not the spot.

SPEAKER_06 (01:04:27):
I I've been trying to get a white tree to do white
and black, but I keep gettingoutvoted.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:32):
Do you remember um in our past life, the tree
wrapped in cotton?

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:37):
Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:39):
I wonder where that tradition came from.
I don't know.
It was pretty.
Yeah.
They spent a lot of timewrapping.
I can't even imagine.
And it was really beautiful.
It was always like about, Iwould say a five foot, six foot,
maybe five feet tree.
It wasn't real tall, but it wasreally branchy.
Yeah.
And then they would take justlong lengths of cotton and just

(01:04:59):
wrap, literally wrap everysingle branch and then decorate
it.
It was really pretty.

SPEAKER_06 (01:05:03):
It was pretty.
I like the white trees that theyhave now with like if I could do
it white and black, I would, butthat would be pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:12):
Get a white tree and put black lights on it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:14):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:16):
You're not allowed.

SPEAKER_06 (01:05:17):
No.
Okay.
I'm gonna buy one and then nowwhat?
Yeah.
Um now what?
So maybe when you're hearingthis, I already have a white and
black Christmas tree.
I don't know.
Who knows what's gonna happen.
We'll let you know after the newyear.
Um, so that's Christmas Krampus.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:34):
Yeah, that was really fun.
I'm glad we did that.
Just a little lighthearted.

SPEAKER_06 (01:05:37):
I just wish there was more on Krampus in between,
but there's just not.
So whatever.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:41):
Yeah, well, that's part of the story, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 (01:05:43):
Yeah.
So thank you for listening.
Happy holidays.
She doesn't mean it.
I do.
Happy holidays.
Thank you for listening.
Find us on all the socials atLike Whatever Pod.
Mm-hmm.
Please.
Uh, like, share, rate, reviewwhile you're there.
Please, please, please.
Uh find us where you are lookingfor a podcast.

(01:06:05):
You can find us on that.
Um, the websitewww.likewhateverpod.com.
Or you can send us a messageabout what your favorite
Christmas tradition is.
Oh, yes.
At Like Whatever Pod.

unknown (01:06:20):
No.

SPEAKER_06 (01:06:20):
Likewhateverpod at gmail.com or don't like
whatever.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:25):
Whatever.
Bye.
Happy holidays.
Happy holidays, grandpas.