Hearts of Glass, Malls and Memories, A Chat with Pat Green

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
We're never done as ever laughing and sharing our
stories.
Clever, we'll take you backit's like whatever.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Welcome to Like Whatever a podcast for.
By and about Gen X, I'm Nicoleand this is my BFF, heather.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
We're back and we brought a friend Back and we
brought a friend.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yes, so today we are doing our first guest host.
We are very excited we have MrPat Green here with us, the
author of Hearts of Glass,living in the Real World.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
We're just going to get to know Pat talk about his
amazing book and y'all need tolisten to it and share some gen
x memories.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
So hi pat, hello, how are you two we're here, we're
here just on.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
You two said yes, I'm sorry, in advance no, nope,
nope, nope.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
If this goes wrong, we're blaming it all on you, so
don't worry about it I'm goodwith that um.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
So we know, as you know, because you are our number
one fan um we do a littlecurrent eventiness before, but I
think we all know what the big.
We had plans for other currentevents and then, you know,
something happened today.
So my current event I'm goingfirst is ozzy.

(01:49):
Yeah, very, it's, it's.
Well, let me take it backreally quick because I do think
it's important.
Um, the trump administrationhas dropped the lgbtqIA option
off of the National SuicideHelpline and that's bullshit.

(02:12):
So the Trevor Project is tryingto pick up the slack.
So if anybody would like todonate to the Trevor Project,
you can look that up.
I don't have the website handy,but but yeah, that's, I don't,
I can't even talk about it.
So, yeah, upsetting.
So, yep, the trevor project ispicking up where where that

(02:37):
looked off and I'll share thetrevor project on the socials.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
So if anyone listening needs the information,
you can look it up on there.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
I went through Trevor Project's training a couple of
years back during Shelter inPlace to be a hotline volunteer
with my kid and with my kid'sfriends so many of them are
LGBTQIA+.
I did it for as long as I couldand there came a point where
mental and emotional exhaustionnot to get too dark, but
sometimes you wondered if youwere the last call and with shit

(03:14):
like this going down, it's justmaking it worse.
So, yeah, I really appreciateyou bringing up the Trevor
Project.
What they do is amazing work.
They have an amazing team ofvolunteers.
Their training is comprehensive, it's sensitive and it
addresses a need that we needespecially now.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
It's just the school.
I know we've in the beginningjust said we were not going to
get political, but I mean atthis point it's decided.
Fuck them if they don't like it.
Yeah, if you don't like it, toobad.
This is who we are.
I mean, that's just it.
Um, I lost so many friends inthe 90s to suicide.

(03:55):
Um, I lost many friends whowere um gay that ended their
lives because they were notaccepted, and it's just.
It's just, it's sad and there'sno reason why you can't have

(04:15):
tab to take you there.
It's not hard to have somebodytrained in that, it's not.
It's not hard to have somebodythere specifically for that.
It's not like they're taking acall from somebody else just
because it's just, I don't know.
Yeah, I get angry.
I mean, stop with my anger.
So that was mine.

(04:36):
And I'm sad about ozzy.
Uh, I knew it was coming,obviously, but but you know
that's that All right.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
the next great news for Gen X this week we lost
Malcolm Jamal Warner.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Who's number three?
I wonder Very tragically.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Out on vacation in Costa Rica with his family.
I follow I'm on no, no, likewhatever is on um blue sky as
well and there is a black bluesky on there and I hadn't really
thought about it, but this waslike a big hit for them because
Theo was one of the first youknow teenage black kids on TV

(05:22):
that they could look up to andsee themselves in.
So it's really been very tragicJust all the way around sending
out some love to his family.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, it's just great .
Yeah, you know, it's just sad,it's sad.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
It's it's.
It's funny because you know,being Gen X, thursday nights on
NBC we got into his life andthat's where we also discovered
Lisa Bonet and so many otherpeople that just became
household names and I wish westill had network television to

(06:02):
expose us, broaden us and createthat common bond yes, I agree,
I know it, it's nowadays it'sfirst of all, it's so much more
expensive than just to havecable, because you have to have
cable and you have to have 27streaming, and then it's.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
You know, oh, are you watching this?
Well, what is it on?
And you have to go looking forit and that you're.
it's not.
There's not really anythinganymore that is water cooler
talk.
Yeah, yep, yep, that is so true.
And I know, when, um, when theycame out with theo being

(06:41):
dyslexic on the show, the waythat my sister is just horribly
ADD, just terrible ADD, andeverything that Theo had, my
sister had, she can't take testsUnless you're asking her the
questions.
Specifically, if we would playTrivia Pursuit, I'd have to be

(07:03):
the one asking the questionsbecause I can make her sometimes
, I can make her focus and uh,and nicole knows my sister and
she knows that I have to, like,hold her face and make her look
at me to tell her anything, andif you do, she listens.
So it was like an eye openerthat, and I would tell my mom I

(07:24):
think that's what's wrong.
I think that's what's wrongwith her.
Like, I think she's got, Ithink she has, the dyslexia that
Theo has.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
I don't know, they never took her anywhere, but
Well, as long as we weren'tdoing special episodes involving
Nancy Reagan telling us to sayno to drugs which what fun is
that?
I think a lot of those.
Oh, and also Punky Brewstertelling us not to go into
refrigerators.
But a lot of those specialepisodes.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yes, he was talking about dyslexia.
And in the meanwhile, you know,punky Brewster is like don't,
don't go into refrigerators andjunkyards.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
that was, that was the safety takeaway and that I
totally forgot that we were alldying in refrigerators yeah,
that's why we're all so fuckedup everything, everything.
Sand was gonna kill you.
Sand was going to kill you.
Refrigerators were going tokill you.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yes, well add in a little bit of satanic panic and
we were all doomed from the getgo.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
I lived the satanic.
I mean you don't look like meand get away with you, don't
look like me, without taking ading on satanic panic.
So the 90s were not good forthe goths.
I don't think me in particularanyway, especially because I
mean so I had that you know,just added right on top, and now
I have a.

(08:54):
I am a card carrying member ofthe satanic temple and I have
the lovely little uh uhcertificate that my
mother-in-law found.
So I am now the devil as anex-evangelical, I'm mildly
jealous and I will see you inhell when we party and see ozzy

(09:16):
live again that's what I said toa friend of mine the other day,
because he was like I'm goingstraight to hell and I was like
I'll see you there.
I don't even want to go toheaven.
It sounds awful.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
I saw the other day that said somebody told me there
would be a special place for mehere.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Do you get your own house?

Speaker 3 (09:39):
or what, or even just your own bedroom, would be nice
.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
I'll even take a little chair in the smoking
section.
That would be great for me.
That would be there we go.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Just let people watch .

Speaker 2 (09:51):
I bet there is a smoking section in hell.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
It's probably all the smoking section.
I mean, it is on fire after all, and it's a casino.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's a giant casino.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yes, but I want them to be unfiltered.
I miss unfiltered cigarettes.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
You know what I miss cloves.
The other day somebody told meyou could get cloves still in
Rehoboth, where we're from,where you could always get them.
Somebody said but they're likestupid, expensive and apparently
they're not as good as theyused to be.
But sometimes I can still tastethem.
Taste it on your lips.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Yep, yep, they were the best.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Every once in a while I'll pick up a pack, and
whenever I do, if I'm walking inthe city, people are like, oh
my God, is that a clove?
And they're not offended,they're excited and intrigued,
as if I uncovered a mystery.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Did you roll your own cigarettes?

Speaker 1 (10:47):
covered a mystery.
Did you roll your owncigarettes?
Did you roll your own?
No, uh, the things that Irolled was not tobacco, but, um,
I wasn't.
You know, I did try to roll myown once and it just looked like
a tobacco joint, it just itdidn't work out well and it
didn't taste good yeah, we had afriend that rolled his own, but
I never.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I was like you know what?
I'm just gonna buy him.
It's a lot easier it was only abuck 86, so come on I was so
sad because I used to smoke umcamel special lights and then
they got rid of my camel speciallights and I was very sad about
that.
But I think they have nowbrought them back, but they

(11:25):
don't call them lights anymorebecause that's against, like the
law or something yeah, I well.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I remember I think it was 89 or 90 they were pushing
two bucks a pack and I said whenthey're two bucks a pack, I'm
done.
And then I said when they'refive bucks a pack, I'm done.
And now here I am forking out12 and saying if it hits, hits
15, ah, fuck it.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah.
I remember when I was youngerand they were seven bucks a pack
in New York city, I was like ohmy God, people afford to smoke.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Luckily there are only eight here, so.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
I'm.
I'm just going to supplement myretirement plan.
I've been working on it.
I practice it.
Welcome to Walmart.
Welcome to Walmart.
Can I see your receipt?
I got this.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
I don't think I'm going to live that long.
The more I smoke, the less longI live.
I don't have to worry aboutretirement.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
There are actually 10-something to pack up here.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Really You've got to go to Wawa with the card At Wawa
.
Oh, really you gotta go to Wawawith the card At Wawa, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
You have the card.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, you're right.
If you buy two packs, you getlike so many cents off or
something Mm-hmm, because it'slike I want to say it's like $18
with my two packs of cigarettesand my coffee drink, and my
coffee drink's expensive, soit's like $5 or something,

(12:49):
stephen Colbert, and thesilencing attempt that you know.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
I think back to being a kid.
Letterman and Carson bothpushed lines.
We weren't aware of it, buteven Reagan and Bush put up with
it and didn't try to doanything.
This dystopian you can't callit.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist,but it's not a coincidence.
It's a load of bullshit and Ilove watching all of the other

(13:14):
late night troops rally aroundthem.
Earlier today I saw aninterview with David Letterman
where he said you can't spellCBS without BS.
Where he said you can't spellcbs without bs.
Um, this is just nuts and it'sa little bit chilling, um, to
see the potential silencing ofvoices.
It's it's it feels, verycommunistic yeah, and, and

(13:39):
fucking george carlin.
He told us, if you don't likeit, there's this thing called
the dial Change the channel.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yep, yep.
I watched Jon Stewart his thingon it this morning.
I saw, and you know, whatevertheir reason is as to if it's
this merger, you know who gotyou to that $8 million number or
billion dollar.
Who got you that number, you tothat eight million dollar
number or billion dollar, or how?

(14:06):
Who got you that number?
Well, steven colbert is one ofthe is one of the reasons you
got that way, and john stewartis.
You know it's just, I don'tknow.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
It's a little scary right now it is, yeah, and under
his eye.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Welcome to gilead yeah, a hundred percent, a
hundred percent yeah, and wehave three and a half years of
this life, so look at all thedamage he's caused already are
you wishful thinking again?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I'm just saying there's a whole tiktok movement
that when it happens.
So I don't know um I just Ithink it's just I, I don't even
have I every day.
You think it's just I don'teven have every day.
You think it's that, that's theworst, that it's going to get
right, that's just as bad as andthen, and then the next day

(14:53):
just tops it.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
So it's just, it's been this way since he was
running for his first presidency.
I remember every day being like, okay, this will be the thing
that will finally get him out ofpolitics.
And nope, everybody just turnedthe other cheek and kept on
rolling.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
No, the goalposts have moved outside the stadium
and they're still moving them.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
You would think that I mean, even though some of them
are getting a little miffedover the Epstein thing, and then
he, just he's just telling themagain.
I don't know why you're soupset about it.
A few people don't realize thathe, if you didn't know he was
on the list to begin with likewhere or have you been living?

Speaker 3 (15:31):
I don't even know why we need the list, because there
are pictures of him wrappedaround girls who are clearly 15,
16 years old, like with Epsteinstanding there.
I mean, what do you think hewas doing?
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm so sorry.
No, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
This is a shitty week in the news, which is kind of
why I you know watch this for asegue, kind of why I think books
and stories are important forus to distract and enrich our
lives.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
You're a professional at that, come on.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
See, I told you we'd know how to do this.
Heather and bookstores are evenmaking a comeback, by the way.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
They are, and independent bookstores have
really become my friend in mykickoff launch tour it's all
been indie bookstores, smallbookstores, used bookstores have
really become my friend in mykickoff launch tour.
It's all been indie bookstores,small bookstores, used
bookstores, and they are theseamazing, beautiful spaces.
There was one where I was thereand a lot of my friends and
family they had already been tothe one at the library and the

(16:40):
one at the last bookstore.
So there were like maybe fourpeople, five people that I knew,
and I'm like, oh shit, this isgoing to be a dud.
But as I was talking about thebook and I had my ASL
interpreter with me, um, everyso often somebody would just
walk by and sit down.
Another person would walk byand sit down and next thing, I

(17:01):
know, uh, you know, I mean mostof the people who are reading
and reviewing the book, eventhough it's a YA book, it's
mostly Gen X and millennialwomen.
But my audience turned into, youknow, I remember there was this
guy who was really large dudesitting there in his flannel
shirt and he had to have been 65years old and he's like, so

(17:24):
you'll autograph my copy today,right?
I'm like, yeah, sure, and uh,can I take one of those balloons
home for my grandson?
I'm like, yeah, but you know,it was fun having that
engagement and that can onlyhappen in those types of
bookstores.
You're not going to get it in abarnes and noble and you're
definitely not going to get itshopping on amazon.

(17:44):
But you know, in barnes andnoble you're going to get it in
a Barnes and Noble and you'redefinitely not going to get it
shopping on Amazon.
But you know, in Barnes andNoble you're going to have
everybody that's wearingsnapback hats and yoga pants and
drinking lattes.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
But in the organic, small, independent bookstores
it's like this gigantic familythat you walk into and they're
amazing you walk into andthey're amazing right and even
though I've never been a reader,I loved because back in like
the 90s and the early 2000s,like even barnes and noble
border books, the what waswalden walden books well, I

(18:17):
could go into those places andspend hours and just sit on the
floor and look through books andand I'm not even that big of a
reader, but it was still like acool, fun thing to do and a way
to spend time, you know, withoutwe have a great, uh,
independent bookstore um here,um browser, it's called browse

(18:38):
about um and they have.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
they have all the time always something going on
and book clubs and all of that.
And you know independent storesare really we don't have a
chain.
Well, we just got a chain.
We just got a Barnes Nobleliterally like two months ago.
So it's always been independenthere, which has always been

(19:02):
nice, and Browseabout's beenthere since we were kids.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, it's always been independent here, which has
always been nice, andBrowseabout's been there since
we were kids.
Yeah, it's always been there.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's nice to have a little cafe like a cafe area and
stuff.
They got big.
It's really nice in there.
Independent is definitely theway to go.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Oh, absolutely yes.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
So tell us about the lot.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
I started last year a blog-type news thing called Gen
X Watch and I did all of theselittle stories on Fridays called
Femme Fridays.
I would talk about Joan Jett orwell, actually not Joan Jett,
yet I would talk about CyndiLauper and this person and this
person, somebody from our era,who was a woman that made a

(20:11):
difference, and the effect thatshe did emanates today.
And I wrote about Tina Turnerand I got very few clicks to
that one and I got some passive,aggressive messages from people
of my generation, where it.
You know, anytime you start offwith your sentence, I'm not a

(20:32):
racist, but some racist shit isabout to come out of your mouth.
So that infuriated me.
I was going to cancel theseries at this point If my, if
my readers aren't ready forblack people, fuck this.
So I decided to write a giantmiddle finger to my audience.
I was pissed.
So I, angry, wrote an articleabout Joan Jett because I can't

(20:52):
think of anybody else who's morein your face, full on feminist,
strong, screw you energy.
But then I was like you knowwhat, if you didn't like, if you
didn't like me writing about ablack woman, I'm going to tell
you about this woman I met at aJoan Jett concert.
We went to her apartment, diddrugs and horrible things to
each other's body for four days,and so I wrote about this girl

(21:15):
that I met at this concert in 91.
And everybody loved the article.
But it wasn't Joan Jett.
They loved the story about thiswoman named Sarah.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
And.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
I'm like wow.
So I decided you know what,let's try it again.
I'm going to tell them aboutthis friend of mine named
Heather that I had met, and so Itold this story.
She was a Madonna fan and Iwrote that story and people
responded they loved Heather,they thought Madonna was nice,
but they fell in love withHeather because Heather was them

(21:47):
or their friend or whatever.
So then I wrote another one,and I didn't expect to go this
deep, but I wrote about my firstlove.
Her name was Kathy and itturned into a three-parter and
what I found out was I foundmyself writing about this story

(22:09):
with her and these friends thatI had met when I life of abuse
and sexual molestation and allthese other horrible, traumatic
things to this space of beauty.

(22:32):
And then some things happen inmy life and I got sucked back
into the world of evangelicalChristianity and abuse.
So there was this moment ofbeauty, there was this moment of
light that I never wanted totalk about because it was
painful, but in writing it Ifound out it was cathartic and
people fell in love with her andI, you know, wrote about a

(22:54):
friend of mine who's profoundlydeaf and um, her and some people
that I wrote about on the um,who were on the outskirts of our
friendships.
Uh, they reached out to me andthey were just like you gotta
write this, but give Kathy abetter ending.
Um, because in real life shedidn't have a good life and she,

(23:17):
ironically uh or unironically,I don't know um uh killed
herself the same year I tried tomake an attempt on my life in
2019.
Um and um uh killed herself thesame year I tried to make an
attempt on my life in 2019.
Um and um, so I decided towrite it.
Now, book one, the book thateverybody has in front of them
that one is so close toautobiographical that I had to

(23:38):
consult a lawyer to make surethat the villains in the story
couldn't turn around and sue me.
Um, so know we, we, we, we, we.
You know we had to figure outwhere the line was.
But, yeah, I wrote this sublimestory and, though it's based on
all of us, Ford is completelydifferent from me.

(23:58):
He's a little bit smarter thanI am.
He's a little bit moreself-aware, but he's also
delightfully clueless in someareas.
I am.
He's a little bit moreself-aware, but he's also
delightfully clueless in someareas.
Cassie is able to expressherself more than the woman she
was based off of.
About the only character thatdidn't really change was Jenny,
the profoundly deaf girl.
She was always the most assuredin the room and she would push

(24:21):
back on you in a heartbeat, butwhen you knew you were wrong she
would turn around and give youa hug.
So, anyway, we have this storyabout these three misfits that
meet in the mall.
You've got the traumatizedformer child model, Ford, who is
working at Silverman's clothingstore in the mall.

(24:44):
Um is working at Silverman'sclothing store in the mall and
he meets Cassie, this girl who'sgot this punk rock DIY ethos,
that is a huge blondie fan andalso into polystyrene uh of the
x-ray specs and you know the thewhole punk and goth, Susie Sue,
the whole nine yards.
And um, she's there working atjulius and she's got this shitty

(25:08):
stalkery, abusive ex-boyfriendand some other dark things in
her past.
And then you've got jenny, whois this um, uh, profoundly deaf,
very, very attractive redheadwho's a super prep, has the
latest fashions and has an itfactor, but can't be taken
seriously as a model becausethis is two years before ADA

(25:31):
existed, so she couldn't get theaccommodation she needed to get
a proper photo shoot.
So the three of them meet eachother and they're in over their
head with all of these entitiesthat are out to destroy youth.
I think people forget that it'snot out of the ballpark for us.

(25:53):
In those days, you know, whilewe were living feral, we were
also dealing with abuse.
We were also dealing with adultpredators.
We were dealing with all ofthese things.
So I wrote this story that, um,maybe we don't defeat all the
dragons, but we find that hopeand that beauty and the found
friendship.
That's where we survive, that'show you two are together all

(26:14):
these fucking decades later.
Um, that you know, we, we don'tnecessarily win or have a happy
ending, but there is an endingand that hope exists in each
other.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
That was really beautiful, pat, thank you.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
I think for me, cassie reminds me, as I see her
in in my head, um, is our friend, that we our mutual friend that
introduced us, um, the curlyhair and the, the attitude, and

(26:51):
I mean the if you throw a littlegrateful dead in there that was
christine, I, she, just thatwas her.
And honestly, ford I knowNicole knows him I saw Matt, I
saw Matt in her, I mean in him,that's Yep.

(27:11):
So yeah, I feel like at thatpoint in all of our life, like
it just brings home the, the,that line of being a kid and
being a grown-up, when we'vealways had to be a grown-up and
now we're having to deal withalso.

(27:32):
I mean, we've always had todeal with grown-up issues, but
at that point it was such a aconfusing time because we did
have to deal with such heavytopics.
Um, it was hard to navigate.
I feel like so it was, it was,it was.
It was good to remember thattime and and in my life as well,

(27:54):
dealing with you know, similar,similar stuff.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
So, um, that's why I really enjoyed it, because it
brought me back to to that timeand season one of stranger
things was a moment that helpedme with that, because so much of
our nostalgia.
We we make it so kitsch.
We we focus on uh, like thewedding singer, which I love, we
focus on the outfits and themusic.
But there's a scene in seasonone of Stranger Things where

(28:23):
Will and Jonathan Byers arediscovering the clash together
and Will is being told byJonathan you know the clash, Joy
Division, all these other bandsthis is what's going to save
your life.
And while they're having thismoment together, what's going on
in the background?
Mom and dad are having anargument in this flashback scene

(28:44):
about what a fucked up, weirdkid Will is and Jonathan is just
trying to get him to turn offthat noise.
So that nostalgia that wediscovered, that music, that
entertainment, that beauty, thestores these were things we
discovered while we were in themiddle of hell.
They were distractions that weneeded when we didn't have term

(29:06):
therapeutic terms like copingskills and coping mechanisms.
This was just survival and inthat survival we discovered art,
beauty, friendship.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
That's the word right .
There is survival.
I grew up in a tumultuous.
My mom left my dad when I wasseven and she married somebody
and they fought constantly.
And I remember going into mybedroom and I just closed the
door and sit there and justthink, if one of you would just
stop, this would be over.

(29:36):
But nobody would ever stop, youknow.
And so and it had an effect onme as an adult I wouldn't fight
with my significant otherbecause in my head, let me just
sit here and be quiet so that wedon't have this big argument
all the time.
But that's what a lot of usgrew up in and it really was
important.
Like getting that driver'slicense at 16 was everything,

(29:57):
because then you could go to themall or to your friend's work
or to the beach or whatever youwanted to do, and just get away
and forget everything and justhave fun.
And then you had to go backhome.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Well, the one thing for Ford and I um, I was a child
model and when I was nine, Iwas doing a runway show for
Vidal Sassoon.
They I ended up in theircatalogs for the pictures of the
haircuts and all that stuff.
Um, but in this runway showthat I was doing, there was a
man who eventually became theperson that hurt me for the

(30:30):
first time and, um, my mom wentahead and married him because
cocaine.
Um, and I escaped that lifewhen I was 13,.
I just called up mygrandparents.
I was dead inside from thefirst time.
I was hurt that way andeverything after that was just

(30:51):
trying to exist and the ability,and that was what made me so
susceptible to the message ofevangelical Christianity, what
made me so susceptible to themessage of evangelical
Christianity.
But then, when I got this jobat the mall, I wasn't around my
school friends, so nobody knewthat I was this fuck up dweeb
that didn't talk and I wasn't inthe church where I had to live

(31:12):
up to this Jesus expectation.
I was just in this third placeand nobody here knew me.
They didn't know my history andI didn't understand how amazing
it was to my history and Ididn't understand how amazing it
was to be myself, and I didn'teven know that's what I was
doing.
But I was myself and all theseother people were themselves,
and all of us had messed upbackstories, but it didn't

(31:33):
matter because we had each other.
So, yeah, it was absolutelysurvival, but at the same time,
it was survival with a kick-asssoundtrack and Galaga.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right.
And I also grew up in thechurch Methodist.
Every single Sunday and I sawso much hypocrisy.
And I remember when I was 16, Istarted doubting my faith and I
had to go talk to the pastorand every question I had for him
was just, I don't know, orfaith, or because I actually I'd

(32:04):
met Christine so, and shebrought in all kinds of things
for me I just didn't know about.
And she, she taught me aboutBuddhism, and so one of the
things I asked the pastor waswell, how come Buddhists are
wrong but we're right, butBuddhists were here first and he

(32:26):
didn't have an answer to any ofit and that basically was was
the end of it for me.
And as soon as I turned 18, Iwas like I'm out, done with this
, and I did the whole thing thecommunion, the confirmation,
teaching, bible school, like allthat that stuff.
Like I was in deep and, yeah, I, that's why I'm an atheist
today.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Same.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, how much do you think the um, the current swell
of nostalgia for um Gen X, howmuch of that do you think is um
self-soothing us now?
Or is it an attempt to go backin time some way to tell

(33:11):
ourselves it's, it's gonna beokay, like do you?
Do you think the nostalgia thatwe're living now is an attempt
to go back, or do you think it'sjust a self-soother now?

Speaker 1 (33:22):
the answer to the question is yes, but let me
unpack that just a little bitbecause I think about this a lot
.
Um, there's healthy nostalgiaand there's unhealthy nostalgia.
Healthy nostalgia is havingthat soothing coping mechanism,
and there's a youtube video thatI saw some years back where
they went into an old folks homewith an iPod to people that

(33:45):
were suffering from Alzheimer'sand dementia and when they were
listening to the music of theirday, they calmed down, they were
less agitated and theirmemories came back.
So when you're engaging in that, in a healthy, nostalgic thing,
it is soothing, it is a copingskill, it is something that
helps center us Because itworked then.
It centered us then while momand dad were arguing in the

(34:07):
background.
It centered us then when we gothome from a shitty day at
school, and now that everythingis on fire, we can go home and
embrace that nostalgia.
I'm right now currently inseason three of Miami Vice.
We can embrace that, relivethat and relax.
Now the unhealthy nostalgia iswhen you get fixated on the lie

(34:32):
that things were better then,that things were more civil then
, that we were smarter then,that the music was better then.
The music was better thenbecause that's when we
discovered it If we were born in2000,.
If we were born in 1950, ourmusical taste would be
completely different.
That's just a fact.
But when we start thinking thatwe're better, we become just
like the scene in the breakfastclub.

(34:53):
We become just like our parentsand Bender is a fucking profit,
bender is a fucking prophet.
Um, and we don't want to becomethat, because if we start
shaming zoomers that have theirearbuds on watching tiktoks,
instead of shaming them we needto be saying what are you trying
to drown out what's going on?
And you better hope the fuckit's not you right?

(35:15):
yeah yeah, so that's?
That's my answer to thequestion.
There's healthy, and thenthere's this lie that we tell
ourselves.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
I agree with that.
I think also, some of thisnostalgia is, you know, again,
going back to the loss of Ozzytoday, I know for myself it's.
You know, we lost people in the90s, in the 80s, the 90s, the
2000s, and those were alltragedies and tragedies and

(35:43):
tragedies.
And now we're losing people andit's because of their old age
or because of a sickness, orit's not a tragedy anymore and
it's almost like I know formyself.
I hear the ticking of the clockat this point.
Um, and it's a weird place tobe, especially for me.

(36:08):
Um, I never thought I'd get tothis point in life to begin with
.
I never, never, expected tomake it this long.
Um, it's a shock and surpriseto everyone.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
None of us did.
I think that's the mark of aCold War Gen Xer.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, I just I think I don't, you know, and I'm
certainly I'm having to pay thepiper now for past mistakes and
misuse of ibuprofen.
I have stomach issues and myteeth are falling out.
I never thought I'd live thislong, so now it's almost like a

(36:51):
oh shit, we're getting to theend.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
I hope I have a good 30 years left in me.
I would really like to havesome good time because I'm going
through a big transition yearsleft in me Like I really like to
have some good time Cause I'mgoing through a big transition
in my life right now and I thinkit's going to be good and I
want to get to enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
So I am painfully aware of my mortality and some
days it does haunt me.
It's it.
It feels like this backgroundnoise that's always there and it
scares the shit out of me.
And when you were talking aboutartists, um, these last couple
of years, I've beenintentionally seeing acts, some
that I've never seen beforesomeone last round, because I

(37:31):
don't know if this is going tobe the last time that I'm going
to get to see them.
Uh, just a couple of weeks agoI saw or what.
Month and a half ago I sawministry, because who knows,

(37:55):
month and a half ago I sawMinistry and that was Uncle Al's
last round, anyway.
I saw Cyndi Lauper on herfarewell tour In 2022,.
I saw Blondie not knowing thatClem was and Chris not being as
healthy as he used to be.
I think Blondie is done.
We've got an album coming up,but there's going to be no more
tours, so shit.
I saw the last tour and, jesusChrist, I saw Rick Springfield's

(38:15):
Summer Before Last.
Never thought that would happen.
It turned out to be a reallycool show.
The guy is amazing and I have anew respect for him.
But it's like I'm doing thislast round knowing that it's
their last round and wonderingwhen it's going to be my last
round.
So I don't have money to go toParis and France and do all

(38:36):
these things, but I can stillafford concert tickets, not as
easily as I did back then.
So, yeah, it sucks.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
And I never got to see Bowie live and that fucking
blows Every day at least once aday.
Think about how angry I am atmyself because I was in Las
Vegas when Prince had hisresidency and I was going to go
and I was gonna go and I just Iwas like oh, the tickets are
just too expensive and and Icould kick myself every day for
not not going to see Prince.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
I mean, I, I just yeah, I got to see Huey Lewis um
a couple years back, which wasmy childhood heartthrob.
Like I loved.
I used to put my hand on theradio when that song came on,
like when he would tell you toput your hand on the radio.
But shortly after I saw him hisvoice went and he was done and

(39:32):
his hearing.
Yeah, so I got.
You know he didn't pass away,but I got to see him on his last
round, so, and I had never seenhim before, so that was really
awesome.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, in August I'm going to see Billy Idol and Joan
Jett are headlining together.
This will be my third time forJoan Jett, first time for Billy,
and then in a couple of monthsI'm seeing Psychedelic Furs.
And uh, oh, my god, uh, garynewman, gary newman, and looking
forward to that one, becauseI've never seen either of those

(40:06):
two fuckers in concert yeah,joan jett is still amazing.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
She was my first concert at the state fair.
I was 16 and I begged and criedmy mom for my mom to let me go,
and she did, thank god.
And then I saw her a few yearsback at a rock fest in philly
and I kept getting in troublebecause I was on the lawn.
But when she came on I ran downto the front and security would

(40:30):
make me come back and then I'dgo find a different spot and run
down to the front so I'd beclose to her the joan jet.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
The joan jet concert that I saw her in was a small
teaser concert at a mall in Ohiooh wow, and that was so weird
she was doing Tiffany provedthat there was a business model
for doing those free shows toget people to go to your big
stadium show.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Yeah, definitely definitely.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
You know the um.
The other day, the new kids onthe block at the fair, they came
to the fair and here and uh,they were there with tiffany and
, um, jimmy pick not what washis name?
Tommy page, tommy, okay.
Um, the the fair puts afacebook page up and they're
like, oh, remember when and itwas like they they put that one
up and I think I sent it to you,nicole, because we were both
there.
We didn't know each other then,but we were both there and I

(41:26):
remember being so excited aboutgoing to see New Kids on the
Block and I can tell youhonestly that I will go tomorrow
to see New Kids on the Block,yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
I hate the fact that when they come on the radio I no
longer turn off the station.
I find myself sticking and I'mlike because of that nostalgic
factor and because of the factthat one time I drew the short
straw amongst me and myrelatives and had to take my
younger cousin to that concert.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah, but they were such a sensation.
I felt well, I didn't feel badfor Tiffany at the time because
I was one of them doing it, butwe were do you remember, heather
?
Everybody booing Tiffany offthe stage because we wanted new
kids to come out, yeah.
So yeah, in hindsight I feelbad about that, but everybody
was like come on, let's just getthem out here.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
It was.
It was shortly after that thatI met Christine and my my music
taste had to change um rightaround that time.
Anyway, um, I don't really know.
I do know, I do know there wasa boy.
There's always a boy.

(42:33):
Um, will you speak of?
Yeah, yeah, um, he was abeautiful specimen of a human
being.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
And he wore his hair like Robert Smith.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
I mean, he had the Robert Smith hair.
He wore the lipstick.
I'm a sucker.
If you put eyeliner on, forgetit.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Except for JD Vance.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Back in the day, the eyeliner in a club.
That shit worked.
That's all I'm going to sayabout that.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
I love men in makeup.
I think men should wear makeupnow.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
I never understood the whole cougar thing with
women being interested in theseyoung men, and I was like I
don't know how you can be likeno, thank you, I'm not
interested in hearing anythingthat a 25 year old has to say.
And then that Aussie concert Isaw youngblood and I was like,
oh okay, I get it, I understandnow.
Okay, all right, would havebeen all over that.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
My first experience with Cougars was I was a young,
impressionable 20-year-oldworking at Glamour Shour shots
in the mall this is the story wewant, pat.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
We are dying for the glamour shot story okay.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
So I start working at glamour shots, and here's the
thing people do not understandhow innovative it was.
Stuff that happens today didn'thappen back then.
First, I'm going to get intothat as if I have show notes in
front of me.
The first thing is contouringmakeup.
The guys who invented glamourshots they didn't invent it, but
they were one of the firstpeople to use had this whole

(44:11):
experience of having your hairdone and your makeup done and it
killed Olin Mills, searsPortrait Studio, jc Penney
Portrait Studio.
They couldn't keep up and theylost so much market share that
Olin Mills became a memory.

(44:32):
But the thing about it was theother neat thing that we had is
we gave you proofs that day, butit wasn't through the camera.
The camera had a special filterthat softens.
You already had the contouringmakeup.
I had a soft focus lens, so yougot those pictures and we
didn't have filters back then.
So this was the filter, so yougot to see your face without

(44:55):
blemishes and you got this rockstar experience.
But the cool part was you gotto see your proofs right away.
We didn't develop the filmright away, we didn't have that
technology, but what happenedwas we had a video camera,
tracking the camera, and everytime you hit that shutter button
the video camera would take afreeze frame.

(45:16):
So that's what you were lookingat when you saw your proofs and
made the decision.
So the business model was itwas only $30 for the session.
You got up to four outfits.
You got your hair done, you gotyour makeup done, you got to
feel like a rock star and thenwe made the money on the backend
.
Average person that went inthere spent like 200 to $300 in
1989, 1990 money.

(45:38):
89, 1990 money.
Um, so anyway, um, I don't knowif this worked at all of them,
but I was paired up with a hairand makeup girl.
Uh, the franchise owner for my,for the location I worked at in
the mall.
Um, I was paired up with thisgirl.
Her name was Alice and Alicewas the short Hispanic girl who

(45:58):
had great hustle.
So if we were working on a 30something or 40 something and we
got a lot of those because itwas big for real estate agents
Real estate agents wanted it fortheir cover pictures and other
sales reps.
So, anyway, if she saw one ofthem looking at me, she would

(46:20):
sit there, sit there and lie tohim.
Lie to her and say you know, helikes older women.
Um you, uh, you give me a tipand uh, maybe I'll hook you up
with this phone number or put ina good word for you.
I've tried with him, but I'mway too young for him and she
would just did you know this wasgoing on?
No, I at first.

(46:40):
No.
When I found out, I was atfirst mortified and then I was
disappointed because I thought Iwas getting all this attention
for free.
I didn't know there was a costand I wasn't getting a cut.
And then we made a deal and Istarted getting a cut and we
started milking it a little bit,to the point where I had these
fricking 38 year old boomers, uh, sliding tips down my jeans, um

(47:04):
, and I felt like a stripper.
But it was money and I was incollege.
So you know, my God, I am astripper, um but more like a
pimpo situation to me but no,that job was so much fun because
, on a serious note, you got tomake people feel good.
I've had other photography jobsin my early days as an aspiring

(47:27):
photographer and the big thingthat I learned from that is you
make people feel like asuperstar and you encourage them
into poses.
You get them to lean into itand feel like a rock star.
And every day we got to do that, we were underpaid, we were
overworked, it was a bitch of ajob, but at the end of the day

(47:48):
you walked away knowing you madepeople feel good, except for
prom kids.
Okay, here's the scam.
Prom kids would come in becausethere came a point where they
got away from.
Every so often they hadspecials where, instead of
having to pay $30 for the hairand the makeup and everything,

(48:09):
you got the photo session forfree.
You know there were coupons andthis thing and this thing.
So a gaggle of prom girls wouldcome in with their dresses on,
thinking that they were going togame the system.
They would come in, you woulddo their hair and makeup and
then they would just leavewithout doing the photo shoot.
And that became a problem whereGlamour Shots was sending out
corporate memos.
So what Alice did was thatcontour makeup was already thick

(48:35):
and if you were under the heatyou were going to melt like a
wildebeest.
If you were under the heat, youwere going to melt like a
wildebeest.
So she created her own techniquewhere she made it even extra
thick, knowing what they weredoing and giving it to them.
So that way, by the time thatthey got to the dance floor and
they started having their fun,their faces were going to melt

(48:56):
and their prom was going to beruined.
And by the time it came timefor their photos or even if they
did the photos later on,outside in the summer sun in the
Midwest, in the front yard nextto the Trans Am, they were
going to look like shit.
So we had so much fun ruiningtheir days.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Alice is my hero.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Alice is my hero.
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
I have no idea what she's doing in her life.
I hope I sell mod off the wall.
Chance she's listening to this.
But oh my God, she was great.
Um, she was bold.
I mean, I was.
I was shy and withdrawn.
I knew how to play the game and, you know, whenever I was
talking to the people andencouraging them, I was playing
a role.
I wasn't me, but, oh my God,she knew how to hustle and she

(49:47):
made the job fun and and I thinkthat's something that exists to
me in this day If your jobsucks ass but you've got one fun
person in there, you stay,because they make hell tolerable
yeah yeah, that is so true, sothat your time I am, I'm
assuming, your time at glamourshots is, uh, what inspired the,

(50:08):
the jenny photo shoot in the inthe book uh, no, no, actually.
Um, I, you know I thought abouthaving ford make that job
transition, but I didn't.
My father isn't a isn't aPulitzer Prize winning
photographer, but he was ajournalistic photographer for

(50:29):
the Chicago Tribune and a coupleof other places and I grew up
with that.
And then also child modeling.
When my dad, when I was 13, mydad bought me a Pentax K1000 for
Christmas and I became addicted.
I got it.
I understood the passion thatyou could point and shoot, and
so I just really took iteverywhere and in real life.

(50:53):
There was a Jenny in my worldand the only way to get her a
portfolio was for me to do it.
And, um, there was a real Noraand uh, so the inspiration was.
That's how it played out.
I was a kid who wanted to be aphotographer and because I was
so down on myself all the time,I didn't know how good I was

(51:17):
until I actually did it and hadpeople saying, oh my God, this
is great, can you do me?
Can you do me?
You know all of these othermodels that I knew.
I'm just like, oh, you reallydon't think it sucks.
You know, I could never believethat anybody thought my shit
was good, um, so yeah, that was.
That was the inspiration was umyou know, my father being a

(51:39):
photographer who divorced my momand never paid child support,
but he did teach me photography,so I got something out of the
deal that's, that's what mattersright I would.
I would prefer being able toafford braces, but you know
forget eating.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I mean it's, it's just over.
Yeah, Grilled cheese is just asgood.
Wow, I do want to know the ASL.
Do you have a background withASL or with Jenny?
That whole line there that you?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yes, yes, I had a sister that was born over 60%
deaf and she was three yearsyounger than me and
unfortunately she's no longerwith us.
That's all I have to say aboutthat.
But as a child, I learned ASL,and because we were living in an

(52:39):
abusive situation and he didn'tspeak it, it was our ability to
have a secret language on topof it being her language.
So when I met the real personthat Jenny is based off of, I
hadn't used ASL in five years,so I was rusty.
Nowadays I can get a fewphrases out, because if you

(53:02):
don't use it, you lose it.
That's the way it works withany second language.
But at that point I still hadenough of connection that I was
able to start communicating withthe real person that Jenny is
based off of.
So, yeah, I do have experiencewith ASL.
I never learned it formally,it's just something that just
happened in the environment.
No, I did take classes, nevermind.

(53:22):
But uh, most of it took placeon the field of life, of just
being a big brother that gotinto fights a lot because people
would make fun of her.
I was gonna beat your ass.
Ford wasn't violent, I was samesame.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Actually, my sister is way more violent than I am.
Um, I was taught speak,speaking of bullies.
I wasn't the bully she had,like you know.
Uh, we fought a lot.
My sister and I are five yearsapart and, um, we, we would, we
would duke it out.
There was some nasty, nastyfights happening.

(54:00):
But if you came at me for anyreason, I mean I've always been
a little weird, I've alwaysdressed weird, I've always been
weird.
There was these kids that livedacross the street and they
would yell things that I atesnake heads.
I don't know why she cared somuch that I ate snake heads.
I don't know what her deal was,but she would go over there and

(54:30):
she was like two foot, nothing.
I mean, she's a very smallperson.
She would just walk her assover there and she did not take
kindly.
So, yeah, bullying is.
I did have to deal withbullying and I was glad to have
a younger sister to handle thatfor me.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Just as a quick as wow.
I've never gone violent oversnakehead, but now I'm going to
have to rethink that.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Anyway, it's great.
It's a great thing to say, likeif next time you're pissed off
at somebody, just say you knowwhat you eat snakeheads.
You just say you know what youeat, snake heads you eat snake
heads, you bastard.
What do you say to that?

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Anyway, writing Jenny .
That was a tough decisionBecause I'm not deaf, I don't.
I have seen bad attempts.
I've got a lot of friends thatare writers and I've seen bad
attempts at bad representation,where somebody tries to write
about a trans character but theydid zero research and they

(55:29):
still want to be patted on theback for doing a shitty job and
hurting people.
So I reached out to a woman thatI found on Instagram who's a
deaf writer who writes spicyromance novels on Instagram.
Who's a deaf writer who writesspicy romance novels.
So she and I talked about howto write a deaf character, how
to write ASL, bad tropes thatare commonly used and things you

(55:51):
might want to lean into,because people will sometimes
get excited about seeing areflection of themselves, but if
the mirror is cracked it'sgoing to hurt.
Um, and between the seconddraft and the third draft, I had
, uh, a couple of women forwomen, to be exact, from the
deaf community that gave itwhat's called a sensitivity
reading to make sure that Jennywasn't falling into that.

(56:15):
But I was left with a choice Ican either make her as she was
or eliminate the deaf part, andthen we just have this hot
redhead that can't get amodeling gig and that makes no
sense.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Right.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
So how did your sensitivity reads go?
How'd you get go?

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Actually, because I had a great Obi-Wan to help me
in creating the character.
I hit it out of the park and Iwasn't expecting that.
I was fully prepared for notesand I wasn't going to be
butthurt or sensitive about itbecause I'm not going to reflect
you poorly.
I got a few notes, but most ofthem were gentle tweaks, not a

(56:54):
oh you fucked it up and with lowself-esteem you assume oh, I
fucked everything up.
Imposter syndrome is a thing,especially when you're creative.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you did a great job.
I work with high schoolers withdisabilities and part of some
of them are in the deafcommunity.
We're fortunate that we havesomeone in management in our
division that is fully deaf andhe is very receptive.

(57:23):
So anytime I have a deaf casecome my way, I refer to him like
this is what I have.
Tell me how I should handlethis, because I don't want to be
offensive or insensitive to it,because I don't have any
personal life experience withthat.
I never had anyone deaf in mylife, but I really liked Jenny's

(57:45):
character.
I thought that was really cooland I loved how you guys like
talked and stuck up for eachother and just kind of were
there for each other.
It was very sweet.
It's a very sweet relationshipand I really enjoyed that one.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
That means a lot.
Thank you, um, jenny was fun towrite because, um, you know, if
you can make characters withdisabilities sympathetic, or you
can go into what's calleddisability trauma porn, where
you over amplify normal things.
Oh my god, look, they got outof bed this morning and they're

(58:23):
doing this.
What's your excuse?
That that's that's notcelebrating someone for them.
Um, and there's one particularscene that I'm in love with, um,
where jenny shows ford how sheenjoys music and that's actually
a very real thing through themembrane of a balloon.

(58:45):
Nowadays, people in the deafcommunity, they have these
things called haptic vests thatwill interpret all of the
different music around them.
So, just like when we've gotgood Bose speakers where we can
hear the mid tones, the bass andall of the different things,
they can feel that at differentpoints on the vest.
So the music is this immersiveexperience.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
Yeah, and that it's.
I just can't say enough abouthow well you portrayed it,
because people who are trying tobe it's kind of like the I'm
not racist, but and they don'teven realize it but I used to
have someone in my life and youknow, you'd hear a news story or
something of someone with adisability doing something,

(59:29):
anything you know, and thisperson would be like oh, good
for them.
And I'm like don't ever saythat to a disabled person, like,
and they're like why I saidthat's so offensive, like, oh,
look at you, yay.
You did so good and I couldnever get them to understand
that.
But because and I don't, Idon't necessarily I mean you

(59:54):
don't know what you don't know,and if you aren't around
something it is harder tounderstand it, and if you aren't
around something it is harderto understand it, although you
can overcome because I grew upwith a very racist stepfather
and that never, ever appealed tome like that no-transcript

(01:00:33):
invite him, so I didn't have mybirthday party.
I was like I'm not this person.
So I mean it was bad, it wasvery, very racist.
We yeah, it was, and the funnything is neither of my parents
are that way.
So it was a culture shock.
But I think it almost made mebetter in a way, because I got

(01:00:54):
to really see it firsthand ofhow hateful and awful it is.
So I never wanted to be likethat.
So, yeah, I don't even knowwhere that came from, but it was
something you said thattriggered that memory.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
So, pat, I want to hear about the Oscar Mayer kid
oh, boy, um, I'll give you theshort version but um, the oscar
meyer kid, his name is rich.
I don't remember his last namebut, um, rich was the original

(01:01:32):
oscar meyer kid.
And then in later years, youremember the got milk ads, yes,
and there's a little boy who'ssaying I'm drinking milk, I'm
small and little and frail.
And then there was a moreathletic kid's saying I'm
drinking milk, I'm small andlittle and frail.
And then there was a moreathletic kid, but now that I'm
drinking milk, I have grown intomacho and you want me.
And that was him.
He was the, he was the grown upkid.

(01:01:53):
So that's those you know.
He had these two iconic momentsin his history and I was part of
community theater at the timeand he was the manager of the
facility and at the time that Iwas doing that, there was me.
There was John Barrowman fromDr who fame, captain Jack

(01:02:15):
Harkness.
He was my first experience ofhaving a fully out gay person
that I knew.
Uh, we weren't friends, but wewere friendly and he totally all
the shit that evangelicals weretelling me completely melted
away because I'm like oh my god,this guy is amazingly sweet,
nice and fucking talented,unlike me.
I'm just doing this for fun.
He's got something going onhere.

(01:02:37):
Um, um, andy Dick was a part ofthat group and he was, he was,
he was not surprisingly ahorrible, horrible asshole.
Um, but um, we don't reallytalk about him that much.
But no, I mean rich.
Um, you know, in my world Idon't keep memorabilia, I don't

(01:02:58):
celebrate that time in my life.
But also I wasn't doingcommercials.
I did one commercial, but itwas.
It was it was photo shoots andthen when I shorted out of the
industry because you know, I,you know, whenever I hit full
puberty I was five, nine and ahalf minimum was five, 11, and
it was very firm, stop there.
So I just did runway shows forproms and homecomings.

(01:03:18):
Um, but um, you know, he had amore full, rich career that was
involved in televisioncommercials.
So when you went into hisoffice it had all of the Oscar
Meyer stuff and you know, we'dhad a few encounters before
community theater in our youth.
So it was really kind of nicebumping into him.
I remembered him.
He didn't remember me, but wewere able to put together the

(01:03:39):
pieces and, yeah, he had hismoment in the sun and he had
mementos of it.
For me it's too connected withthe trauma to celebrate.
So I'm glad that he had thatexperience.
But mine was a completelydifferent experience.
But yeah, he was just, he was areally cool guy, he was nice.

(01:04:01):
But mine was completelydifferent experience.
But yeah, he was, he was just,he was a really cool guy, he was
nice.
But that was also his domain inhis space, that theater that we
were renting.
You did not fuck around andwant to find out.
If you, if you, if you coloredoutside of the lines, if you did
something you weren't supposedto, he'd be all over your ass.
But he really cared about thetheater, he cared about the

(01:04:22):
community, just, really, reallyan amazing person.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
Very cool.
Thanks for sharing that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Where can we get the book?
Let's talk about where we canget the book, how we can get the
book.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Okay, the book.
Well, first off, on Friday, theday that this episode airs
allegedly allegedly friday, the25th of july, the audiobook
comes out, which I know the twoof you had a chance to listen to
.
Uh, the voice actor.
Her name is jen lantham.
She is a veteran in theindustry.
Uh, if you've ever been forcedto watch a Salesforce video

(01:05:00):
about how to use Salesforce andyou hear the narration or things
about don't sexually assaultpeople in HR videos, you've
probably heard her voice.
There was no way I could affordher.
She fell in love with theproject.
We were able to make anegotiation for the royalties
and she is all in and she can'twait for book two to hit.

(01:05:21):
I love her.
What she delivered to the tablewas amazing.
The audio book is coming up.
Uh, before this goes live, I'llsend you a link to where people
can see the countdown and getit directly from um, uh, spotify
, main source, but they'll alsobe able to get it from auto
audible, itunes, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

(01:05:43):
all of those places.
But honestly, I can't sing thepraises of the audio book enough
.
When I heard her read it, itmade me proud of my own work and
I saw the charactersdifferently.
Uh, one quick thing before Icontinue to answer your question
.
She does something fascinatingwith Jenny.
Pay attention to Jenny.
When Jenny is speaking verbally, it's a slight monotone.

(01:06:06):
When Jenny is speaking ASL,it's full vocal inflection
because that's her native tongue.
So you know there's littledifferences.
And God, I love what she didwith Doug.
Doug is such a badass.
For people who have not readthe book yet, you will fall in
love with Doug.
He is cool.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
I love.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Doug.
But anyway, as far as the bookitself, amazon, barnes, noble,
thrift not in the stores, butonline Barnes, noble, amazon,
thrift Books, bookshoporg, allof the places that you buy books
online, bookshoporg, all of theplaces that you buy books
online.
And if you do go to bookshoporg, what's amazing about them is

(01:06:49):
you can choose your favoritelocal bookstore as if the
purchase came from them and theyget their cut as if you picked
it up from their shelf.
So this is a way to supportyour local bookstore without and
still, buy online, or you canfeel free to ask them for it.
And the audio, audiobook or not, the audiobook, the e-book, is
available in all of those spaces.
But, um, affordability in thisdystopian age is, um, really

(01:07:13):
something that matters to me,because not everybody can afford
books and I think everybodyneeds an escape.
And it's not like my book is inevery library, it's only two
and they're here in the Chicagosuburbs.
But, um, if you go to mypublisher's site, barnstormerorg
that's my publisher Uh, theyhave the audio book available
for a dollar 99.

(01:07:34):
And you know, I mean that thatis there specifically to make it
approachable for everyone,because the book itself is
$16.99.
That's not in reach ofeverybody.
The normal price for the e-bookis $4.99.
But even that is a stretch forsome people.

(01:07:55):
So two bucks and you're in.
You get to at least enjoy thee-book.
So those are the spaces thatyou can get it.
And my next public appearance ifyou go to my website at
patgreenauthorcom, my nextpublic appearance is actually
going to be in a mall in Jolietin August.
I decided to hook up with thecraft fair vendors that hang out

(01:08:18):
in the middle of malls and I'mgoing to have a table and pitch
the book there and present andI'm going to test it If it sells
there.
The fee to get into Fox ValleyMall, where the book is set, is
actually more than double.
So if I can make a case andhave it sell in a mall, you bet
your ass I'm going to go thereand hustle it on the side.

(01:08:41):
But yeah, the places you can getit all the places you normally
buy bookstores buy online.
But because I'm not a big fanof people that like writing
dick-shaped rockets into spaceand sending pop stars up there,
honestly, if you go tobookshoporg, you can choose a
local bookstore and support yourfavorite bookstore and help

(01:09:04):
them out while going to me, andobviously you can go to
barnstormercom.
I get a bigger cut that way andwe're soon going to be
launching for people that wantan autographed copy.
People could go to that website, spend 20 bucks.
I'll sign it.
I'll mail it to you personally.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Oh, excellent.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
I can make arrangements after the show, we
can talk and we can get you one.
You gave me an opportunity tobe on one of my favorite
podcasts.
Well, I am your number one fan,which I don't want that
pressure, because all I canthink of when you told me that
was misery.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
You are the best kind of number one fan.
I mean you stroke our egos andyou we.
We will text each other onFridays and be like I can't wait
for Pat to listen.
Why hasn't Pat listened yet?
I want to know what Pat thinksof this episode.
Pat to listen.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Why hasn't Pat listened, yet I want to know
what Pat thinks of this episode.
I get to have fun and dig deepinto my weird little cultural
references because the beginningspots when you two are in
better moods and the world isn'tabout to end and we haven't
lost two cultural icons in aweek.
You guys go into these amazingtangents and I'm just like, yep,

(01:10:22):
yep, I wish I could be there inthat room, light up a joint and
say, yeah, but what about?
And just have this free flow.
Adhd hour.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Yeah, and, and I'd love to hear that because that's
what we wanted to do Like wepick a topic but we don't want
to be typical and just runthrough like blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
Like we want to relate ourlives and our memories based on
this topic and then we hope tospark that in other people and
and we do for you.
So that's awesome.
And I want to pay 20 bucks foryour book.

(01:10:51):
I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
We'll talk afterwards .
It'll be easier to make.
It'll be easier to make thetransaction to me saying all
right, here's my phone numberfor this.
Now your address it.
We'll take that order.
But if you do have any fans,let's put this out there If
you're, because I've got copieson stock.
If your fans reach out and theygive you guys the 20, we can

(01:11:15):
make the arrangements and I'lllet you guys have a portion of
that as a tip.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
We'll fund the show.
Okay, well, well, well, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
And if and if you edit that part out, that's fine,
but let's do something and tieit into the show.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Do you know how little editing I actually do?
It is just we run it and then Itake out like the pauses and
the arms and the.
Sometimes Nicole likes to getright up on the mic and that's
all I edit out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
OK, because I have zero editing skills.
Every time I do a 30 or 45second reel on Instagram, that
is two hours of work, because Ido take after take, after take
after take, until there's no ums, ahs, awkward pauses, or I
don't fumble on a reward and bythe time I'm done, I'm like I
hate this.
I don't know how anybody doesTikTok and is not a drug addict

(01:12:09):
and I need to stay sober, so I'mnot going to do another one of
these for a month.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Yeah, I mean, our conversations are real.
It's one take Once in a while,really.
If we stop and rewind, it's onetake once in a while, it really
.
If we stop and rewind, it'sbecause our tongues are like and
we can't get it out and we haveto stop and be like okay, let
me try this again, but otherthan that it's it's.
It's one take and one and done,like that's it.
But that's how we talk to eachother and that's why heather was
right when she sent me thattext.

(01:12:35):
We should do a podcast, becausewe're brilliant and we're smart
and we have really awesome,amazing opinions and we knew we
wanted to share it with theworld so what I'm hearing is
you're smart enough, you're goodenough and doggone it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
People like you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
We're definitely gonna have to have you on again,
because this was so much funthat would be a blast.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
um, yeah, the the only thing that I will say in
shameless plug land is um, ifyou want to appreciate a walk
down memory road in the 80s,embrace the nostalgia but also
remember the beauty of foundfamily.
Um, it's a phenomenal book.
The reviews that I'm startingto get online from mostly the

(01:13:24):
women makes me realize that I'vestruck the chord that I wanted
to, and there's two reviews from, there's a couple, there's more
reviews from men now, but myfirst review from a male was
hilarious.
It was.
It was a guy in the UK on AmazonUK, and he wrote this book is
about crimes committed againstwomen and they think it's their
fault and this is wrong.

(01:13:44):
And you could tell that thislittle light just came on in
this guy's eyes and then heclosed it with if you have a
daughter, you need to buy themthis book, you know, for this
was the first time realizingthat some of the things that
Cassie's going through is on adaily for too many women, most
of them.
If I were in a room, if I go toa high school reunion, I can

(01:14:08):
probably count on one hand howmany women haven't been through
something, and they're probablylying.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Yeah, you're exactly right.
I mean it's so, especiallybefore.
It was just prevalent.
I mean, that was just how itwas and nowadays men are so
offended like can't say anythinganymore, blah, blah, blah, blah
.
Like I was in a casino a fewyears back and a young girl was
a floor attendant and this nastyold man in his seventies she's

(01:14:39):
paying out his thing and hishands on her ass.
And I'm I was a cocktailwaitress for 14 years, so I put
up with a lot of in a casino and, uh, I can't keep my mouth shut
.
So he says to her what's yourname, sweetheart?
And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa.
You don't even know this girl'sname and you have your hand on
her ass and and he of course,starts cussing me out and and

(01:15:01):
his, he actually said you can'teven, you can't have any fun
anymore.
You're not allowed to doanything anymore.
I'm like, yeah, you're notallowed to grope young women,
right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
For whatever it's worth, I do not let the locker
room go unchallenged.
If you say it in front of me,I'm going to speak up and, um
say something directly to theirface, because it's not okay.
When the Me Too movement firstcame out, a friend of mine, who
I respect greatly, he postedguys, you need to shut up and
pay attention.

(01:15:30):
And I'm like, okay, so I did.
And then I started askingmyself some really uncomfortable
questions.
Have I ever used guilt to getwhat I want out of somebody?
Has I?
Have I ever used alcohol as alubricant?
Have I ever, um lied?
Have I ever?
And some of those answers wereuncomfortable, yeses, and I

(01:15:51):
think that in you know, I mean,we have a lot of progressive men
that are falling by the waysideand being exposed, and I think
that's because they patthemselves on the back for not
having raped somebody in analley, but they've never asked
themselves the hard questions,because that toxic masculinity
that is ingrained in us, that ispart of our culture, that is
what we grew up in.
We were raised in the lockerroom and we were seeking

(01:16:13):
acceptance but the okay.
So, yeah, we, we wereprogrammed, but we are full ass
grown adults who are responsiblefor our behaviors and if we
analyze it, we can stop it.
And if we see it, we shouldn'tbe silent, not just because
that's somebody's daughter, notbecause that's somebody's mom,
not because of any of that shit,but because it's just wrong and

(01:16:35):
it's inhumane.
And I am sorry, but consent issexy.
I'm going to close this rantwith a fun little story.
I was in a relationship with agirl uh dated her 2016 through
2018.
And one day I was pouty becauseshe got dirty flirty while we

(01:16:58):
were out to dinner.
When we got back to my place,her mood changed and I got pouty
about it.
So she took me outside andshe's like, let's go have a
cigarette.
I'm like, oh shit.
So we go outside and she goes.
I know what you're pouting aboutand it's really fucking
childish.
And if you think that's goingto win your case, it's not.
One of the great things aboutthis relationship is you taught

(01:17:19):
me not to let men talk to me insuch a manner, and I'll be
goddamned if it's you who doesthat.
And then, from there, we hadthis conversation about how that
was a pattern that I did that Iwas unaware of.
I got pouty if I didn't get mycandy after dinner.
And so what happened was ourconversations.

(01:17:39):
There was no impromptu sexytime.
We had full on conversations tomake sure both people were on
the same page, and I got to tellyou that it sounds weird and
guys saying, oh, you can't talkabout anything.
I promise you, if you have afull line consensual
conversation and everybody'sfeeling it, it's fucking amazing
.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
Yeah, yep, yep, it it's fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah and it's that simple.
You don't have to read the room, you don't have to take a guess
, you don't have to stretch yourarm at the movie theater and do
that.
You just hey, you wanna no.
And then your response is likeoh okay, cool yeah, and you want
to play some uno right, andit's those little learning
moments that are so important.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
One of my favorite quotes is by maya angelo, and
it's those little learningmoments that are so important.
One of my favorite quotes is byMaya Angelou, and it's do the
best you can until you knowbetter and then do better.
So you really it's not.
You know you weren't trying tomake her feel that way or feel
that some sort of way, butluckily you two had the
communication where she couldtell you hey, stop.
And you were like you know what, you're right and you've
learned from that and you'llnever do it again.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
And a little bit of that spilled into Ford.
A little bit of conversationslike that spilled into Ford.
Because what Ford does well isI wanted Ford to be one of the
best book boyfriends thatanybody's ever had, but I didn't
want him to be the white knightin shining armor, like in the

(01:19:07):
Lifetime videos.
It's always the sensitive,handsome guy who, when he takes
off his shirt and dockers, healso happens to be cut.
Ford's Ford is not heroic.
What Ford does is Ford listens,give space and believes and
he's a supporting character.
Doing that, uh, he might be theprotagonist, but he is that
hero because he's able tosupport and that's what makes

(01:19:29):
him awesome.
And you get to see cassie standup and she even calls him out
when he crosses a line too fartrying to stick up for her and
she's like that's not what Iwant.
I want you here, not out thereplaying fucking Rambo.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
Right, I really did feel like Ford Was a More of a I
don't want to say modern man,but a much more Sympathetic To
the situation, to Cassie, thanthan most men.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Well, the Easter egg for Ford is, um, the Easter egg
for Ford is part of my creationof him was saying what happens
if a little boy grew up andactually listened to Mr Rogers.
What kind of man does he become?
I love that.
And how does he overcome all ofthose other voices, um, the

(01:20:29):
Jeffs, the dogs, this that youknow?
And he does look up to Doug,but Doug also isn't an asshole,
um, you know, I mean, doug hashis own characteristics, he's
this big brother figure, um, and, and I love him because he's
more of what we think of in themodern man that you brought up,
heather, he really, you know, hecan be strong and tough.

(01:20:49):
I mean, oh my God, if, if therewas an 80s version of what's
his name?
The, the actor who plays theMandalorian.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Oh, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Pedro Pascal, yes, pedro Pascal.
If there was an 80s version ofPedro Pascal, doug would be
Pedro Pascal in the womb, stillmeticulating.
But I don't know ifmeticulating is a word, we'll
fucking go with it.
I love it.
But yeah, is is like whathappens if you actually listen,
what happens if you payattention.
And the key question is isthere strength in that?

(01:21:27):
And the answer, in my opinion,is yes, and that's for every
sensitive guy out there who istold that they're not enough,
who is told that they're beta.
It's like no, this is yourfucking superpower, this is your
strength.
And any guy that's going to getup in your face wearing a
snapback and thinking thatthey're the shit and they can't
step up and elevate theirclothing game and can't listen

(01:21:50):
to good music, fuck them, you'rebetter yep, you know who ford
is.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Nicole, I'll tell you who matt, my brother-in-law
matt yes, I like him already theoh he is.
I've had a crush on him sinceher sister met him he's the most
amazing, he is the most amazinghuman being to if, like, if you
can't get along with him,there's something very wrong
with you.
Like it's, he's just one ofthose people that, um, no, no,

(01:22:21):
two people are more suited foreach other than my sister and
her husband.
It's just impossible.
It's just they've been together.
It's like 20, 20, some odd.
Well, the boy will be justturned 20.
So 24 years now I think they'vebeen together and, um, uh, he's
.
He's petrified of my sister, ashe should be.
Um she he and he's petrified ofmy sister, as he should be.

(01:22:46):
Nobody treats their wife like aqueen like he does.
I mean she is.

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
He will act up if he needs to.
If you come for his family,forget it.
We'll keep that one too.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but it'shappened multiple times, yes I,
it's just but.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
But who I was actually?
And it just dawned on me nowthat I was thinking it was, um,
my brother-in-law, matt, but whoI actually pictured when I was
reading, it was christine's mattyep, I knew that's who you
meant when you said that.
Yeah, but then it don't know me, maybe.
Maybe all mats are like that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
The best thing about Christine's mat was that we were
in the same chemistry class andwe were a year younger than her
, and she would come to the doorto get him Cause back then you
could just walk out of class.
What were the?
Oh yeah, and I would go withthem.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
So Christine would come around me and matt up and
we'd go skip class together andit was awesome.
I was the photographer for theschool paper and they gave me a
laminated hall pass and I wouldjust say, yeah, I gotta take a
picture.
And I I senior year.
I don't think I was hardly inany of my classes.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
I showed up on finals , took the test, graduated
because that's how it worked youwere so lucky you could not get
away with that shit at privateschool.
To save first, there was only20 of us in the whole class, so
if one of us is missing it'spretty obvious right, wait a
minute where's the one thatlooks weird?

(01:24:24):
she's called out.
Yeah, there was no skippingschool in my, in my world plus,
everybody knows me so and Idrove like the most obvious car
on the planet earth.
So if I were to leave schooland drive through the small
towns that we live in, everyoneknows my mom and everyone knows

(01:24:45):
my dad.
Everybody knows my unclebecause they have had businesses
here, I still to this day.
Just the other day I got oh,are you Dave's daughter?
I still can't get away with it.
So I could never have neverskipped school.
I could never have get awaywith it.
So I couldn't.
I could never, have neverskipped school.
I could never have gotten awaywith it.

(01:25:05):
You missed out.
I know I'm so sad.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
Invisibility had its advantages.

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
You know what, though ?
I'll tell you what happened,though.
Once I went to the Universityof Delaware where you are, anana
like nobody could give twoshits about where you are.
That's when it all wenthorribly wrong.
That's where it went.
That's where it went Well, she,she did it to me.
I'm a good student and I was agood girl until I met her.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Ok, that's when I would call you and say, hey, you
want to go to the mall and youcouldn't because you were had
had too much vodka, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
I went to a very repressive Christian college.
Long story I was studying to bea minister.
They manipulated me into thatpath but when I was there I
still had my dark side, whichwas actually a good side.
I went to Rocky horror.
I still smoked weed on the side, but anyway I was an RA
sophomore year big mistake.

(01:26:09):
So basically I would catch kidswith weed and I'd be like, hey,
I'm confiscating that, but I'mnot going to report you.
You'd be expelled for this.
And then I'd go sell it behindthe bowling alley and make money
.
I was God, but there was a huge.
My point was public school andthen going to a private

(01:26:29):
Christian college.
They had so many weird rulesthat made Footloose look like a
free-for-all.
We couldn't watch R-ratedmovies.
We couldn't go to dances.
There's an old joke about thedenomination I was with.
How come?
How come hold on?
How come Assemblies of God isso against premarital sex?

(01:26:52):
The answer is because it willlead to dancing.
Dancing was the ultimate,ultimate sin for the
denomination.
I was part of my senior promdate, christy, and I hope she's
listening.
She was threatened to loseleadership at her church for

(01:27:13):
going to prom with me becausethere would be dancing.
And also was Kat Green and shewent anyway and we weren't even
dating.
We went as friends, but I was.
I was that evil and the dancingwould be there and god only
knows what could happen.
What happened was we had agreat time.
Then we went to the city, thenwe almost got shot by a guy

(01:27:35):
driving a newspaper truck, thenwe went to the dunes yeah,
sounds like a good night thatwas a normal.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
That was a normal, ladies prom that's why we have
to have you on again, because weI wanted to get into discussing
how the 80s and 90s and gen xthe gen x experience is
different from the east coast,where we are, to the midwest and
oh my god, that was on the shownotes.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
I completely, yeah, we got trailed off.
That will be a fun conversation.
Yes, I'm down for whenever I'moff on Tuesdays, yeah perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:28:11):
So when does the next book come out?
Have you started it?

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Yes, I'm actually done with the first draft and my
editor has started giving I her.
I'm gonna feed these to you.
You cannot give me notes untilI'm done with the first draft.
I can't think back, that'sgonna fuck me up, right?
So I have just finishingediting.
I've just finished these editsof chapters one and two for the
second draft, and the releasedate is black friday because
that's where the book starts, sowe're gonna have black friday

(01:28:47):
at the mall excellent.

Speaker 3 (01:28:49):
Oh my gosh, I love it I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
Yes, yeah, and that one will take us um into winter
of 88 and ends in 89.
And then book three will takeus into the 90s.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Oh, the 90s.

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
Oh, the 90s.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
Yeah, the hair and clothes are going to be less
awesome.
So is the music, but you know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
You know you can't walk into a Target now and think
that you're not in the 90sanymore.
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
I can't promise when we get to that third book that
I'm not going to talk aboutMolly.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
Oh, alright, now we're getting somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
I was just talking about Molly the other day.
Anyway, we definitely have tohave you on again, because this
was a blast.
See, heather I told you not tobe nervous.
Look bro, I'm nervous all thetime.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
Anyway, I was nervous when I woke up this morning oh,
I stress, ate macadamia nutsand chain smoked while I was
waiting for the call.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
I didn't get the chain smoke because I'm at my
mom's house and I'm now out ofmacadamia nuts and those fuckers
are expensive.

Speaker 3 (01:30:02):
Yeah, they are.
I took a nap before this.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
I'm jealous.

Speaker 3 (01:30:08):
Well, I had a sinus headache, so it wasn't a fun nap
, but it was a nap.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
All naps are fun, no matter what If Comet's coming
take a nap.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
Yeah, as well.
Yeah, yeah as well yeah, soyeah, we got.
We're gonna wrap it up because,hey, it's 1500 million degrees
in this room now.
Well, thank you, pat, for beinghere.

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
We appreciate it yeah , thank you for having me we're
gonna do it again.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
Uh, yeah, you can follow us on all the socials.
At likewhateverpod, you can.
Nicole's going to post all ofPat's socials on there.
You can send us an email abouthow you would like to read Pat's
book at likewhatever, atgmailcom, or don't like whatever
.

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
Whatever, whatever, bye, bye, see you.

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