I Do Not Like This Grown-Up Scam, I Do Not Like It Sam-I-Am

On the 65th anniversary of "Green Eggs and Ham," we unpack the complicated legacy of Dr. Seuss with both nostalgia and critical awareness. Did you know this beloved classic was written on a $50 bet using only 50 unique words? Or that Dr. Seuss invented the term "nerd"? 

Our conversation explores why six Dr. Seuss books were removed from publication in 2021, sparking passionate debate about how we should handle problematic content from our cultural past. Is erasing history the answer, or should we use these moments as teaching opportunities? We don't hold back on our opinions about whitewashing history versus acknowledging mistakes and growth.

The episode takes unexpected turns through childhood memories, cultural reflection, and surprising revelations about Dr. Seuss's political messaging - like Yertle the Turtle being an allegory for Hitler! We also examine what made his work so enduring, from his creative wordplay to his distinct artistic style.

For Gen X listeners who grew up with these books, this episode offers a thought-provoking blend of nostalgia and modern perspective. For younger listeners, it's a window into understanding how cultural standards evolve while appreciating the creativity that made Dr. Seuss a household name for generations.

Whether you're Team "Ban the Books" or Team "Teach the Context," this conversation will make you think differently about childhood classics and how we navigate problematic elements of our shared cultural heritage.

Send us an email

Support the show

#genx #80s #90s https://youtube.com/@likewhateverpod?si=ChGIAEDqb7H2AN0J

https://www.tiktok.com/@likewhateverpod?_t=ZT-8v3hQFb73Wg&_r=1

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Two best friends.
We're talking the past, fromMystic to Arcades.
We're having a blast Teenagedreams, neon screens, it was all
rad and no one knew me Like youknow.
It's like whatever.
Together forever, we're neverthe best ever Laughing and
sharing our stories.
Clever, we'll take you back.

(00:25):
It's like whatever.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to Like Whatever, a podcast for, by and
about Gen X.
I'm Nicole and this is my BFF,heather.
Hello, so we were talkingbefore this trying to figure out
what interesting things wecould talk about from this week,
and we're boring.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
This week we are very boring this week the only fun
stuff I had was the end of theWhite Marlin Open, which I think
it did make national headlinesbecause Michael Jordan's boat
came in on Saturday and he camein second place.
He won $400,000.
It was actually really cool.
So the way they do it is thethe harbor.

(01:09):
It's real small.
It's kind of small, andnormally he trucks his fish over
.
Anything that comes off of hisboat comes in a truck like a.
I think it's too small.
It's hard for his people to getin there.
His boats get in there becauseit's like 822 feet and I think
it's also to avoid the wholeMichael Jordan nonsense.

(01:32):
Yes, but because they had await and there wasn't many waits
, come in this week Saturday allday they were getting rumors
that the catch 23 was going tobe at the scales and so there
was all kinds of build up for it.
And the fun part is when theyum because you watch a live
stream when they have they tryand pick music that goes along

(01:55):
with whatever boat like.
There was one that was ashooting star and they played
the.
I know you're a shooting starand then um one was called the
sea hab and they played um.
They tried to make me go torehab by anyone so they try and
do fun stuff like that.
Well, the whole time his boatwas coming in, because it took
it a while, because it's been,then man, that guy pro fact not

(02:19):
that I wouldn't think that hewould pay a profession like that
guy was probably.
You know how many people arewatching you parallel park an
800 foot boat, yes, and he, henailed it right away, they
backed it in, it got.
It was like inches away fromthe other boats.
It was pretty cool, but thewhole time they were playing um.
Michael jordan highlights overthe loudspeaker yeah it was

(02:40):
pretty and he was on the boatand he's in all the pictures and
they won second place.
So the winner was a local boat,a local angler, Ocean City 3.9
million Awesome, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I can't wait to make my daughter and her
boyfriend feel bad because Itried to get them to take me to
the white marauder open on.
Saturday and they were oh well,we can't.
And I think they don't realizehow awesome it is and that it
would be something they'd reallyenjoy.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
But no, I'm gonna tell them, michael Jordan was
there yeah, and they missed itand he was giving out autographs
in the crowd and and waswalking around and stuff, so
that that's.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Um, and because what days wasit?
It was thursday and friday werenot good fishing days, so only
a few boats went out.
So, um, that the scales open atfour and they go four to nine

(03:37):
with the um, whatever right.
So they were interviewing.
They had people that are likebehind the scenes people.
So that was really fascinatingbecause they had the poor guy.
This has got to be the moststressful job for one week of
the entire year that anyonecould ever have.
He is the guy that lines up theboats to weigh Wow, and so on

(03:58):
busy days they're calling himall day with what they have and
what time they'll think they'llbe in and what bridge they can
make, because it's a drawbridgeand it opens at the 25 after and
55 of no, 55 after, 25 afterand 55 after.
So he has to coordinate whatthey have on their boat to when

(04:21):
they can get in, to when theycan line up to get into the
scales.
And all of this is becauseevery minute that they have that
boat on board it loses weight.
So if they have to wait a longtime, a pound, even an ounce,
two ounces, three ounces is thedifference between $3.9 million

(04:44):
and $400,000.
Yeah, like that is intense.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
That's a stressful job.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Really is because you have to coordinate, and you
have to coordinate the fact thatthe Catch-23 is 822 feet and
how are you going to get that inthere?
Because no other boats can waitin line Right, because it can't
get around anything else, soyou have to.
That guy has the most stressfuljob for one week a year.

(05:10):
That like anybody could ever.
I mean that's the differencebetween millions of dollars, if
you even are wrong, and thatfish loses a half a pound.
That's a half a pound is thedifference between winning and
losing.
It's crazy.
That is crazy a pound is thedifference between winning and
losing.
Yep, it's crazy.
That is crazy, but it waspretty cool.
It was cool to see and good forOcean City and he was really

(05:31):
cool and walked around the crowdand signed autographs and was
in all the pictures, nice.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, it was cool.
It was cool, it's good.
The only thing I could think ofthis week and it is kind of Gen
X related thing I could thinkof this week and it is kind of
Gen X related um, have you seenthat there's a new Billy Joel
documentary on HBO?
Yes, I don't even know how longit is, because I've watched
segments like hour-long times.
I've sat down and I've not seenthe same parts yet yeah, I've

(05:59):
seen pieces of it.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
I haven't seen the whole thing it's's very, very
interesting.
It is.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
I've never been a huge Billy Joel fan, but
listening to that I went in andput his old-time music on my
playlist.
I was like, oh, I forgot aboutall these songs.
He's appealing to me becausehe's an old New York Jersey kind
of guy and that's my dad'sthing and Billy Joel in his

(06:28):
early days wanted to mimicFrankie Valli, which is my dad's
absolute favorite.
I could sing one of his albumsword for word.
I don't remember which one, butmy dad always had it on the
record player.
But it's really neat.
When he was very young he wasmarried.
Yes, and they're still yeah,friends right right, um, and she

(06:51):
had a daughter and so he helpedto raise her and they had a
great time and she became hismanager the wife and then he got
on drugs and drinking and whathappens to a lot of people.
No, she didn't come till later,but yeah, so yeah, and then
Christy Brinkley's on therethrough part of it.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
I haven't seen the Christy Brinkley part.
Yep, I've gotten up to ChristyBrinkley.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, it's kind of neat that part, because they
just partied, but it was notcrazy partying.
It didn't look like, of course,the documentary is going to say
what it wants to say, but shewas just, of course, this
stunningly beautiful supermodel,and she comes into his little
group of like hoodlums and justfit right in, you know, though,

(07:36):
and just had the best time, andI think what happened with them
was, she said, the fun just kindof stopped.
Yeah.
He became.
I don't't know.
I can't remember exactly whatthat part was, but yeah, it's
it's.
It's a really good documentaryI've seen parts of it.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
I don't think I've seen the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
I did what I can't remember what I was watching
these stupid ass poker fuckingtournaments on this stupid ass
app I love it that when you tellme about it, you say it with
hatred, basically because I'mlike I just can't start.
I know as soon as I start,exactly, don't do it, it's gonna

(08:16):
be candy crush all over it is Ibroke level 14 000 on candy
crush last night by the way Iknow, I know it's just that.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh, because they send you the freaking tickets and
then you can get in thetournaments and then, like, some
of the tournaments are 25 centsand then if you get booted
early, you were settling down toplay poker, so you're gonna go.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yes, sounds like it's all I have even if it's cheap,
it's such a time killer.
It is because I've been doing.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
there's one every night that's called the free
roll, so it's free and you canwin tickets and the tickets go
towards you can.
There's some that are a dollar,all the way up to like $100,
and you can win tickets.
So it's like a dollar ticketthat enters you into the dollar
one, and I did use a dollarticket and I did win $4.94 off

(09:07):
of my dollar ticket that I didnot pay for so.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Do you find that when you enter, like the free ones
or the quarter ones, that youdon't do?

Speaker 3 (09:17):
well, the free one is hard because everybody goes all
in, and I hate that, like it'snot fun.
It's because you're playing forfree, so they're just going all
in.
And I hate that like it's notfun.
It's because you're playing forfree, so they're just going all
in on everything I didn't thinkabout that.
Yeah, I hate that like I get ityou're not playing for and you
can re-enter like four or fivetimes but still like, don't you
want to?
At least because you do win thefree roll you win.

(09:37):
Um, last night's free roll was54, up to number.
54 was in tickets and it waslike a dollar ticket up to like
the 30s and then it was twodollars and then the closer you
got to the, the number one wontwo hundred dollars money.
Everybody else won tickets, butI went out last night at a 500,

(10:03):
no 600, 600 and some.
I ended up going out 109.
So not bad.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Not bad.
I asked that question because Ilearned years ago with
DraftKings that a lot of timespeople that are really good will
go in.
And now I know this isdifferent because it's lineups
yeah, in.
And now I know this isdifferent because it's lineups
and yeah, but.
And they'll enter like a ton ofthe same lineup because they
have all the data and they knowall these people are going to be

(10:30):
entering and then they caneasily take first place right.
So I didn't know if it wassomething like that too with the
um, no, it's it also.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
It's good because, um , I noticed last night
especially, it moves you tablessuddenly.
I couldn't figure out why.
For a little while I couldn'tfigure out why I would be
betting, and then suddenly itwould hold me out and wouldn't
let me bet.
Everybody else at the table wasplaying and I was like what's
happening?

(11:00):
It's because it's moving you totables with people with the
same chip level as you.
So it keeps moving you totables.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
I don't like that.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Well, I did, because then you can build your chips
back up if you need to.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
And then you're playing in league with people
with the same amount.
So when somebody who has 58,000chips is going all in because
they can, because it's going toforce everybody else out, then
you get put in with the peoplewho have a similar chip count as
you.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
And then you get pared down.
I get that, but I feel like youneed to know the table and work
from there.
I would want to try to build upon the table I was at, if
you're a person.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
I agree with you if you're in person, but because
it's all online, you're notgetting a good read on anybody.
Anyway, I like it because itdoes take you into a.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
That makes sense.
I'm just never going todownload it, don't do it.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
They have Let it Ride , don't do it.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
How can you tell me not to do it and then tell me
they have Let it Ride, they haveLet it.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Ride and you can bet 10 cents the casinos around here
, don't even have let it ride.
I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Even Atlantic City the last time.
I was there, which was like sixyears ago, I couldn't find any.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
When we went to Vegas I found it.
The New York.
New York had it, but it wasonly like a $10, $15 table and I
can't do I don't understand,it's so fun $30 all at once.
I can't.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, oh my God, that game is so fun.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
I know and you can bet 10 cents.
Stop, I'm going to send you alink.
Are you trying to get back atme for all the bad influence?
I'm gonna send you a referral.
No, yeah, because I think I getfive dollars and you get five
dollars, no.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
so if you're out there listening, bet rivers you
or if you're out there listening, you're considered doing bet
rivers email heather so she cansend you the code, and then she
can collect five dollars fromall of you, and it's multi-state
too.
Yeah, poker, it's all thecasino games.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
You're a junkie.
Last night I was playingBlackjack.
I'm not a fan of Blackjack.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
I don't like Blackjack.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
I know that's always been your thing, which is weird
because I hate math.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's boring to me.
Maybe I've just never gotten itLike I get it.
I know the concept of it and Iknow the rules, but maybe I've
just never like felt it One timeI sat at a blackjack table in
Vegas for six hours with 20bucks.
I sat at a Let it Ride table inVegas for like 13 hours.
Yeah.
You remember that I love LetterRide.

(13:44):
We went down it was when I gotmarried in Vegas, yeah and we
went to Circus Circus and I satdown at a I want to say it was
like a quarter or 50 cent LetterRide table and literally sat
there.
All I ate that day was BloodyMarys with olives because they
filled me up.
And I sat next to I'll neverforget I sat next to a prison

(14:08):
guard from a Mexican prison andhe would tell stories and it was
like whoa I was at theblackjack table with two cops
from LA and now that I thinkabout it, it was like the early
2000s.
Oh, yeah, thousands, oh yeah,yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
but when it's that cheap you can literally play
that long, forever, yeah yeahall right, that's enough
gambling I now I want to putokay, we're gonna shut this down
now sorry, see you next week.
Welcome to the poker podcast.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
All right, before we get started, I would like to
remind you all to like sharerate review, please, whether
it's on the platform that you'relistening to this podcast or on
the socials.
Either way, we are slowly butsurely.
Did you see?
We're up over 900 followers.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
I did.
We're getting there A hundredmore and we can make that money.
So if you know a hundred peopleor you would like to have a
code, you could just reshare ourposts and maybe it'll reach
some people.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Comment Anything.
Yeah, you can find us whereveryou listen to podcasts.
Uh, follow us on all thesocials, at like whatever pod,
and we are on youtube as well.
Uh, although we're not veryactive on there yet, we'll get
there one day give us time.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah, mostly we have a fun thing coming up on sunday
and I think we're gonna do somefun stuff.
I was thinking maybe some liveon the Tickety Talk.
And on Facebook.
So, you can see it's going tobe fun because I don't have to
wear my work clothes.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
She can wear her, nicest weirdo clothes.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
I can wear my weirdo clothes.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
And me on the other end is like I texted her
actually last week and I waslike I'm gonna stick out like a
sore thumb and she was likewelcome to my world.
And I was like I do have anoutfit planned.
It is still not, but it's gonnabe cute I mean, you have that
witchy vibe thing going I do,and I have a really cute outfit
that I wore in austin can't waitfor my outfit.
I can't wait for your outfiteither.

(16:22):
I'm'm so excited.
I'm excited to just go dosomething with you too.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
I got my fishnets ready, oh lord.
And my socks and my boots.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
I know.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
And I went thrift shopping and I found the perfect
dress.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh, lucky you so excited.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
So look out for that, because then you'll get to see
my OOTD, maybe I'll get to seemy OOT day D.
Maybe I'll get a get ready withme.
I won't because it's to be tooearly in the morning.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah yeah, we have to drive to Philly.
It's a whole thing.
Yeah, it's a whole thing.
So, alright, or send us anemail to likewhateverpod at
gmailcom if you want thatreferral code for Bet Rivers
from Heather.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Or if you are Bet Rivers and you want to just give
me tickets.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
We'll tag you on everything.
Everything, we ever post, Iwill talk about you every week.
And we'll stop talking abouthow awful it is.
Maybe I'll join, maybe not.
Anyway, all right, so let'sfuck around and find out about
Dr Seuss, yay, yay.

(17:34):
So this was prompted by.
I mean, a lot of the content isabout specifically Dr Seuss.
But today, the day we arerecording, august 12th, is the
65th anniversary of the releaseof Green Eggs and Ham Sam I am.
So Green Eggs and Ham getstheir part in this.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
That's my theme.
I will not eat them in a house.
I will not eat them with amouth.
That really is the book aboutyou.
I know.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, I did learn really cool stuff about it,
though, like one really bigthing I never knew.
Anyway, my sources this weekwere Britannicacom,
everythingexplainedtodaycom,paradecom and MarianWebstercom.
And no, this week I did not useany wiki.
All right, so yeah, it turnsout that there is a lot of

(18:19):
information about Dr.
Seuss online.
Yeah, it was much easier to findthan other things that I have
tried to look up before.
All right, so Dr Seuss, bornTheodore Seuss Geisel, was born
March 2nd 1904 in Springfield,massachusetts, and he died
September 24th 1991 in La Jolla,california.

(18:41):
That might be La Jolla.
I think it's La Jolla,california.
That might be La Jolla.
I think it's La Jolla, probably, because, yeah, but Los Angeles
is Los Angeles and not LosAngeles.
So let's not get crazy, I willbe crazy.
Okay, I tried to look up thingsthat I would have to pronounce
this time, but we'll see howthat goes.
That didn't work out real wellfor me.

(19:03):
All right, so early in hiscareer he graduated from
Dartmouth College with abachelor's in 1925.
Geisel, which I did not look up, but that sounds like the right
pronunciation for a Germanlesson Seems like it.
It's spelled G-E-I-S-E-L, whichit could be Giesel, which is

(19:24):
like it.
It's spelled G-E-I-S-E-L, whichit could be Giesel, which is
like diesel, although diesel hasthe I before E.
I don't know.
Anyway, we're going with Geisel.
I love it.
Okay.
He did postgraduate studies atLincoln College at Oxford and at
the Sorbonne Sorbonne.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
That one, I know it's French, I'll swap.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
He subsequently began working for Life, vanity Fair
and other publications as anillustrator and humorist.
In addition, he found successin advertising, providing
illustrations for a number ofcampaigns Geisel geisel Now, I

(20:03):
can't remember which way I wantto pronounce it.
Anyway.
Dr Seuss was especially notedfor his work on ads for flit
insect repellent, and some ofthe characters from that ad
later appeared in his children'sworks.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
There's a locket in my pocket.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
After illustrating a series of humor books, geisel
decided to write a children'sbook, which was reportedly
rejected by nearly 30 publishers.
That's some persistence, man.
Yeah, I would have got like tworejections.
I'm like, okay, I suck, I'mgoing to find something else to
do with my life.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
One rejection two.
Rejection Three.
Rejection four.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Red fish, blue fish, I don't know.
Anyway, after a chance meetingwith a friend who was an editor
at Vanguard Press and to thinkthat I saw it on Mulberry Street
, was finally released in 1937.
Now, when I first read thattitle and to think that I saw it
on Mulberry Street, I was likeI don't remember that.
But then I saw the cover I waslike, oh yeah, I remember that

(21:04):
one.
It's one of the ones that's nolonger published, by the way.
The work centers on a young boywho transforms his ordinary
walk home from school into afantastical story.
Later, however, he describesonly the facts of his walk to
his father, who frowns on theboy's imaginative nature.
Geisel used the pen name DrSeuss, planning to publish

(21:27):
novels under his surname.
The doctor was atongue-in-cheek reference to his
uncompleted doctorate degreeand for his father, who had
hoped he would become a medicaldoctor.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
Oh, burn, burn.
That sounds like something Iwould do.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Who's a doctor now?
Bitch, that's exactly what Iwould do to my dad, dr Jop.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
So when we become famous, I'm going to change my
name to Dr Heather.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, I always wanted to become a doctor in my field
of study, but I'm good.
It seems like a lot of work.
Yeah, exactly, I'm done withschool, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
It seems like a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, exactly, I'm done with school.
However, his first book foradults, the Seven Lady Godivas,
in 1939, fared poorly, andthereafter he focused on
children's books, which hepreferred.
In many profiles and articleshe is often quoted as having
said adults are obsoletechildren and the hell with them.

(22:23):
He's not wrong, he's really not.
In 1986, he published a humorbook on aging for readers of all
ages your Only Old Ones.
A book for obsolete children.
Yeah, I think I kind of want tolook that one up Right.
I was thinking that I feel likeI could connect with that.
After publishing several morechildren's works, geisel

(22:47):
released Horton Hatches the Eggin 1940.
With it he introduced thefeatures that would come to
define his books a unique brandof humor, playful use on words
and outlandish characters.
It centers on an elephant whois duped into sitting on the egg

(23:07):
of a bird who goes on vacation.
Despite various hardships,horton refuses to leave.
I meant what I said and I saidwhat I meant An elephant's
faithful, 100%.
In the end he is rewarded whenthe egg hatches and a creature
with bird wings and an elephanthead emerges.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Now, who gets custody of that?
I don't know it, says he wasrewarded when it hatched, but
did the mom come back, birdelephant.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Did he get stuck with a kid that he didn't want?
I don't know.
Anyway, they didn't have theright to choose.
I dug way too deep into drseuss.
I'm way overthinking everything.
Uh so during world war ii,geisel's focus shifted to
politics.
In the early 1940s he was aneditorial cartoonist at pm

(23:58):
magazine in new york city.
Although his political cartoonspointedly critiqued American
isolationism and America firstattitudes Hmm, way back then
Some of them also containedxenophobic and sexist tropes and

(24:18):
racist depictions of Asians, inparticular Japanese people,
arabs and Africans, of Asians,in particular Japanese people,
arabs and Africans.
Now I want to stop here and ask, because I should have Googled
it, but is Arab still anappropriate term, I think so.
I just feel like nobody says itanymore.
Maybe Middle Eastern.
I know, yeah, that.

(24:39):
So I'm going to say it's goingto come up a few more times and
I hate to, but that's what wasin the ratings.
Not that that's an excuse, butif it is of any one, I'm sorry
and I really should have lookedit up.
Anyway, geisel then served from1943 to 1946 in the US Army,
where he was assigned to thedocumentary division.
Sounds like a pretty sweet gig.

(24:59):
Right In 1945, he wrote yourJob in Germany, which was
directed by Frank Capra.
It was later remade as theAcademy Award winning Hitler
Lives in 1945, though Geisel wasnot credited.
After his service ended, hecontinued to make films with his

(25:20):
first wife, helen Palmer Geisel, who wrote the Oscar winning
documentary feature Design forDeath in 1947.
Heather enlightened me beforethis that there may be things
that I don't know about him.
There are some controversies.
Of course, this stuff waswritten at a time where it was

(25:42):
okay to be racist.
Not that it's not still okay tobe racist to a lot of people
Depends on where you're living.
I think yeah, so I did put insome of the controversial stuff
here.
So anyway, despite themessaging of tolerance and
diversity in some of Geisel'schildren books, a number of them
have been challenged in the21st century for their racist

(26:06):
stereotypes of Asian, arab andBlack people.
These include books publishedbefore his career as a political
cartoonist and after his visitto Japan in 1953, which had
inspired his Sneetches andHorton Hears a who.
His first children's book andto think that I saw it on

(26:29):
Mulberry Street featuresillustrations with anti-Asian
stereotypes and depicts a circusringmaster holding a whip over
both an elephant and its Africandriver.
Some modern readers have alsoargued that there are racial
elements in the cat in the hat,viewing the cat's white gloves
and appearance as arepresentation of blackface

(26:50):
minstrelsy Um.
This argument also claims thatthe depiction was inspired by
Annie Williams, a black elevatoroperator at Geisel's publisher
Houghton Mifflin, who wore whitegloves.
These problematic elements leda number of organizations,
including the NEA and itsinitiative Read Across America,

(27:16):
to distance themselves fromhighlighting Geisel's work.
However, read Across AmericaDay is still held on March 2nd,
and schools around here at leastcall it Dr Seuss Day, because
my kids had that day.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
I think again, it's one of those separating the
person from the art, and I knowthat Walt Disney has also done
where they have tried to go back.
And here's my thing about ityes, racism is wrong.

(27:49):
All the way around.
These things should not stillbe at these things that are, you
know, specifically with Disney,because I'm way more familiar
with the Disney catalog thanreally all of Dr Seuss.
But a lot of the Disney raciststuff should have been erased.

(28:10):
It should have been.
It's not an excuse that it waswhat was going on at the time.
But I think more importantly iswhen a company recognizes that
it is a problem, right, and thenremoves it.
Correct, because they removedan entire ride at dis World
because of it.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, and I'm going to get to what they've removed.
I think it's all been donesince Dr Seuss's death, so that
doesn't clear him from anything.
So yeah, but I also tend towonder if we are still so
sensitive to what washistorically quote unquote okay,
because there is.

(28:48):
It's still so rampant thatracism is out there.
Maybe if we could look back inhindsight and be like, oh my God
, that was crazy.
People used to think and talkthat way.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
And here's the thing like I go back and forth.
I don't know if this is goingto be politically correct, but
I've never been politicallycorrect.
So my thing about it is okay yes, it's wrong and all that but
when we erase it completely,like that, it's kind of doing
the same thing that the otherside of the coin wants to do

(29:19):
about critical race theory.
Like, if we ban all this stuff,isn't it the same thing as what
they're trying to do, banningthe history, the dark history of
our country?
Because that is what it was?
Yes, that's what it was.
In the 50s, black people werenot allowed to eat at the same
places as white people it's justblows my, it's not been that

(29:43):
long it blows my mind.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
I mean Well, and it's not just, it was sexism too.
I mean yes.
I read something the other dayand I've seen this before on
like memes and stuff and they'relike everybody says, you know,
like divorce is so high now andit wasn't like that for my
grandparents Just because womencouldn't get bank accounts or
credit cards or rent or own ahome.

(30:05):
They had to depend on the manthey were with, so they had to
stay yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
So and so that's what I think, like a lot of times
when.
That's why I'm so torn aboutthis specific thing, because by
erasing it all, we're notacknowledging that it happened
and that it was horrible, yes,and that it shouldn't have
happened yes and it isacknowledged as wrong and

(30:31):
changed correct you know what Imean.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
So, like disney is not going to do those things
again, they still exist becausethat's what happened at the time
and it was wrong and weacknowledge it and yeah, I think
it would be better to likeembrace the change, like when
you see and I I'm assumingyou're talking about like some
statues being taken down ornames being changed, which in
some cases that doesn't knowthat I that I agree with.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
But why would you?
First of all, yeah, you lost,he lost.
Robert e lee lost.
The guy's a loser, he lost thatis true why would you want a
statue of a loser?
Exactly that side lost theconfederate flag that you're
waving.
They lost, they're losers.
They lost, true losers.

(31:17):
Good point.
Why would you want to fly theflag of losers?

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Whatever, maybe you're a loser yourself.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
They seceded from the country that you're supposed to
be so fucking proud of, exactly.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
They left it.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Now what You're?

Speaker 2 (31:38):
you're Okay, We've, we've got.
We need to get back on track.
Somebody's raging again.
Yes, all right, so Read AcrossAmerica Day, march 2nd.
In addition, in 2021, dr SeussEnterprises announced that it
would no longer publish orlicense six of his books,

(31:59):
including and to Think that?
I Saw it on Mulberry Streetciting its hurtful and wrong
portrayals of people.
Now, I do agree with that.
Like you, don't want to keepprinting books and having kids
read them.
If there's blackface in it,agreed, or there's making fun of
Asian people.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Agreed and I agree Right, but my issue is is that
if we continue to shun it, putit in a box and say it never
even happened?

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, because you can find tooth, comb, everything.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
You can find something in everything,
depending on what you believeLike the whole trying to scrub,
like I don't know whatgeneration it is that's trying
to go back and say that the johnhughes movies should all be
canceled.
Probably they were verypersuasive, molly ringwald kind
of got.

(32:50):
Yeah, there's a lot of daterape happening.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
We should show these people um blazing saddles and
then talk to them and like yes,these movies are now problematic
.
Yes, but they're also ourhistory.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Exactly so if you shove everything into a box and
say, well, this is allproblematic, so we can't ever
see it again.
That's what happens now, whereit's just repeating itself
because we forgot.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yeah, it is a very fine line and the problem is
that people are very passionateon either side of issues and
those are the ones who arefighting for things and those
are the ones who are never goingto come together Like people
who can just look at it with a Idon't want to say an open mind.
Try to see both sides.

(33:44):
That's kind of fallen away too.
I used to try to see both sides, but that's not really a thing
anymore.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
I'll use the Confederacy as my point in this
Okay, we should not celebratethe Confederacy because they
were losers, but we should notcelebrate the Confederacy, but
we should acknowledge that itwas part of this country, that
it was a horrible part of thiscountry, that it was a horrible
part of this country and weshould have to learn about it
because it happened yes so whenyou're talking about

(34:13):
specifically disney and the songof the south, we should not
celebrate it because it's aterrible thing.
But by erasing it from the wholeuniverse, then you're not
learning about why it's wrongand why it's a problem.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
That was a point I was trying to make and I just
got tongue-tied.
Was that we need to?
I'm going to celebrate thesethings and look at how far we've
come since that, look at whatwe learned from it and we know
not to do it anymore.
So yeah, I agree with you onthat.
So now we're going to get intoand to think that I saw it all
by your street and what waswrong with that book?

(34:47):
Now, most of these aredepictions of different races,
nationalities, but I think therewas maybe anyway.
All right, and to think that ISaw it on Mulberry Street was
published in 1937.
Dr Seuss was inspired to writehis story based on his

(35:09):
experiences growing up inSpringfield, massachusetts.
Mulberry Street is a real streetin his hometown and the young
boy named Marco was inspired byDr Seuss' childhood habit of
daydreaming and letting hisimagination run wild during his
daily walks to and from school.
The story revolves around Marco, a young boy with a vivid
imagination.
As he walks down MulberryStreet, he witnesses ordinary

(35:30):
events and uses his creativityto transform them into
extraordinary scenarios.
Events and uses his creativityto transform them into
extraordinary scenarios.
For example, he sees a horsepulling a wagon and imagines it
as a grand procession led by anelephant, complete with a brass
band and confetti.
Throughout the book, marcoencounters various characters,
both real and imagined, that addexcitement and color to his

(35:51):
otherwise mundane walk.
Despite his imaginative appeal,and to think that I saw it on
Mulberry Street was banned inMarch 2021 due to concerns about
the portrayal of certaincharacters by Dr Seuss
Enterprises.
It's an organization founded in1993 by Audrey Geis, the widow

(36:12):
of Dr Seuss, with a primarypurpose to protect, preserve and
promote Dr Seuss's legacy.
For instance, the character ofan Asian man is depicted with
exaggerated features, wearing aconical hat and carrying
chopsticks.
This portrayal perpetuatesharmful stereotypes and
reinforces culturalinsensitivity.

(36:32):
In the original publication,the character was referred to as
a Chinaman, which I rememberthat term as a kid, which is now
considered derogatory.
Another issue involves a scenein which two men of African
descent appear with exaggeratedfeatures and bare feet,
reinforcing negative racialstereotypes.

(36:54):
All right, the next one.
So I'm going to go through thesix books, not long for each of
them, but just explain why andto help you remember books from
then.
If I Ran the Zoo is anotherimaginative story of Dr Seuss
that follows Gerald McGrew, ayoung boy with a grand vision
for transforming his local zoointo a spectacle featuring never

(37:17):
before seen creatures.
These fantastical animalsinclude the likes of the
Fizamawizamadil, a beast with aunique song, and the Tufted
Marsuka, a bird that can playvarious musical instruments.
As Gerald imagines travelingthe world to collect these

(37:37):
extraordinary creatures.
He envisions encounters withvarious human characters from
different ethnic backgrounds,such as Africans and Asians.
Unfortunately, some of thecharacters are portrayed
problematic, leading to thebook's ban, so it sounds like he
should have just stuck with yes, white folks, horton hearing a

(37:59):
who, and cats and hats Anothercat and a hat was racist.
How about green eggs and ham?
Green eggs and ham, I thinkmade it through.
Okay, same way.
It through okay, same line.

(38:21):
On march 2nd 2021, dr seussenterprises decided to cease
publication of if I ran the zoo,citing concerns over the
portrayal of characters fromdiverse ethnic backgrounds.
The images depict thesecharacters with exaggerated
features and clothing.
One example is the portrayal oftwo african men wearing grass
skirts and carrying an exoticanimal.
This depiction reinforcesnegative stereotypes about
Africans and their clothing.

(38:42):
Similarly, an Asian characteris shown wearing a conical hat,
with slanted eyes and a thinmustache.
This image perpetuates outdatedand harmful stereotypes about
Asian people, which has no placein modern children's literature
.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
I agree, I agree, I do.
But again, I don't know why youcan't have a foreword that says
hey kids, this is not okayanymore.
And here's why.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
And I also wonder about his intentions and I hope
I say this the way it sounds inmy head, but I wonder if he was
trying to bring more diversityinto his stories.
He just didn't do it in theright way I think we also have
to to remember this.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
See, it's such a fine line we walk with this, because
I think we have to alsoremember that these people, like
Dr Seuss, then, even though hewas in World War II, he was in
Germany, so it's not like he hada whole lot of contact.
And he was a documentary InGermany whole lot of contact and

(40:01):
he was a documentarist,documentary in germany, um in
europe, with a lot of europeans,and so I think, up until geez,
I don't know the 60s, the 70s,maybe even the 80s, later, even
the americans didn't leave theircountry and didn't get exposed
to cultures outside exactly oftheir own, so I think a lot of

(40:27):
it is just stereotypes, becausethey didn't know any different
right, I mean, I can rememberwatching bugs Bunny cartoons
with black problematic.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yes, um, and the same that they describe here with
Asian people.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
That that was all and if you, you know, if you grew
up in the 30s in Massachusetts,I mean, if you think about what
your it's not right, but whatyour idea of, because there's
probably not a lot of blackpeople in massachusetts in?

(41:00):
Definitely not any japanesepeople, no, so what you're
getting is what the minstrelshows, and media and media
exactly always been the problem.
I'm not saying it's okay, it'snot acceptable.
I'm not saying any of that, no,I'm just saying is.
I'm not saying it's okay, it'snot acceptable.
I'm not saying any of that, no,I'm just saying is.
I think.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
It's so funny because I think we're on the exact same
page with this and we're bothtrying so delicately to explain
it because we don't want tooffend anyone and we don't mean
anything offensive by it and weare not condoning it and we are
not saying you know, you know,well, that's the way it was,
because then you void out the metoo movement.
Well, that's always how it was.
Men just grab girls by thepussy and then they moved on and

(41:42):
that's the way it goes.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
And that's the other, that's see, that's what I'm
trying to say.
It's like it's so by becauseyou shut all this shit down and
say we cannot, we cannot havesong of the south anymore, we
cannot have these dr seuss books, we cannot have all this.
Then you?
Then you're whitewashinghistory.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Right.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
You're saying well, this stuff, well, because we
didn't.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
It's a little embarrassing.
It's the same family secret.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
It's the same thing as banning Huckleberry Finn
Right, and that's how they spokethen.
Right, it's not okay, and youshould.
When kids are learning about it, this is a learning opportunity
for you to say this shithappened and here's why it
doesn't happen anymore, andhere's why it should never

(42:26):
happen again.
Yes, but without teachingpeople what happened.
Then nobody's I know, I justfeel like it should be taught.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
I am just so excited because I had no idea this was
going to anger you so much, andyou know I love it when you rage
.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
I just hate things being banned because of.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
I do too.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
I understand the stereotype and I understand the
issues with it, but I think,instead of banning all this shit
and acting like it neverexisted, you should be using it
as a learning opportunity to saythis is the shit that used to
happen, here's why it shouldn'thappen anymore.
And here's why Because look atthis shit, it's awful.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
I agree a million percent and once again, like we
have said tons of times on thisshow, tell kids that they can't
have something and see how thatgoes.
They're going to go seek thisstuff out and then learn on
their own with their littlebrains and no one there to guide
them and explain to them what'shappening there and why it's
not okay anymore.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Yes, the same thing goes to me.
I know that they have bannedand this is completely unrelated
, but it just popped into myhead because I just watched the
thing about this Dying to hearit.
Yes, like how they stoppedshowing the falling man in 9-11.
They should be fucking showingthat, because that's what
fucking happened.
Yes, people jumped out of thebuilding because the hell that

(43:55):
was inside was way worse thanthem jumping 90 some stories off
the ground right, they made thechoice.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Do I want to spot her on the sidewalk or burn?

Speaker 3 (44:04):
alive.
Do I want to burn alive,exactly and again by decent, by
putting all this because we'retoo sensitive, we should?

Speaker 2 (44:13):
I don't think they show the planes crashing into
the building.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
No, they don't anymore, and that happened
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
It happened and you should feel that.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Exactly, and that is why I'm saying that you should
put these people in blackface onand say that is wrong.
And here is why.
And you should feel why it'swrong and you should feel the
embarrassment of it and youshould feel it Yep, it's wrong
and you should feel theembarrassment of it and you
should feel it yep.
And that is how you moveforward by knowing what happened
and what went wrong.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
I agree, another reason that gen x is amazing
because we lived through a lotof this shit and it was all
totally okay when we were kidsand I get it, and we're making
it not okay now.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
But I think the problem is we went so far the
other direction of shutting itall out and saying, oh, it's all
canceled.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
No one can agree on anything anymore and no one can
have a discussion about anythinganymore.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
It's also that you can't have a discussion about it
.
You need to be able to have adiscussion because that's the
way people learn.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Like as much as there are things out there right now
that I don't like, I wouldgenuinely love to sit down with
someone who feels the way theyfeel and can explain to me why
they feel that way and whattheir point of view is and why
they think whatever is good orwhatever.
But that's impossible.
It is because the second youknow they might start out good,

(45:33):
but the second you ask aquestion somebody's gonna get
defensive and then it going toturn into an argument.
Yep.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
I went way far off the rails.
That is quite all right, I loveit Yay.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
It's passion.
That's what I'm talking about.
I'm very passionate about it.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
I just don't think things should be banned.
I like it.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
All right.
So help me out with this oneMcGilligot's, mcgilligot's Pool,
mcgilligot's Pool All right, Iwas afraid it was French or
something.
I don't think so.
It looks French, french andGerman or Irish anyway, with the
MC.
Imagine yourself diving into theworld of McGilligot's Pool, a

(46:14):
delightful and whimsical tale bythe beloved Dr Seuss.
This story takes you on anadventure with young Marco Again
, what's with the Marco right?
A daydreamer who discovers theextraordinary possibilities that
could lie beneath the surfaceof an ordinary pool.
As you flip through the pages,you'll be captivated by the

(46:35):
vivid illustrations and rhymesthat have made Dr Seuss a
household name for generations.
Envision yourself standing byMcGilligat's pool with Marco, a
seemingly insignificant body ofwater where he decides to cast
his fishing line.
You'll feel the excitementbuild as you join Marco in
wondering what fantasticcreatures could be lurking below

(46:55):
With every tug of the line.
Your imagination will soar asyou explore the depths of the
sea alongside Marco,encountering rare and
fantastical marine life.
You'll marvel at the incredibleassortment of imaginative fish
that Marco envisions, from thosewith intricate patterns and
multiple tails to others thatresemble underwater plants and

(47:16):
animals.
As you journey further into themagical underwater world,
you'll be inspired to embracethe power of imagination and to
believe in the potential of eventhe most extraordinary things.
However, it's important to notethat McGilligot's pool has
faced some challenges due to itsportrayal of certain characters

(47:37):
.
While the story is acelebration of creativity and
wonder, the book's illustrationsof Inuit, aka Eskimo
individuals, perpetuate harmfulstereotypes and cultural
insensitivity.
One such instance is theillustration of a fish described
as an Eskimo fish.
This fish is depicted wearingtraditional clothing associated

(48:01):
with indigenous people from theArctic, such as the Inuit or
Yupik communities.
I'll admit for the longest time.
I did not know Eskimo was a bad.
I didn't know it was bad and Ijust assumed that's what they
all look like, with the bigfurry hoods and, and they talked
very quietly.

(48:21):
That's how they were alwaysdepicted.
Yeah, but I learned, you know,I know better.
The term Eskimo is consideredoutdated and offensive by many
indigenous people, as it hasbeen historically used in a
derogatory manner.
Additionally, the illustrationreduces the diverse cultures of
these indigenous groups to amere costume for fictional

(48:44):
character.
In response, dr SeussEnterprises decided to halt the
book publications on March 2nd2021.
All right, this was one I don'tremember.
On Beyond Zebra, I feel like Iwould remember that, because On
beyond doesn't make any sense tome.

(49:05):
Embark on an extraordinarylinguistic adventure with On
Beyond Zebra.
This captivating story invitesyou to explore the world beyond
the traditional alphabet,introducing you to the world of
new letters and creatures thatwill spark your imagination and
expand your understanding oflanguage.
Conrad Cornelius, a youngprotagonist not named Marco,

(49:26):
believes that the conventionalalphabet is only the beginning
of a much larger linguisticlandscape.
As you turn each page, you'lldiscover an array of whimsical
new letters, each accompanied byan imaginative creature that
perfectly embodies its uniquequalities.
Dr Seuss's signature rhymes andillustrations will transport

(49:46):
you into his fantastical world,where language is limited only
by your imagination.
As you journey through OnBeyond Zebra, you'll encounter a
delightful assortment ofinventive characters, from the
Ombus, which looks like a cowwith a peculiar horn, to the
Zatzit, a mysterious bird with apenchant for disappearing.

(50:11):
I like how his names he wasvery good at naming things,
because the names of birds soundlike birds yes, like.
I don't know how to explain it.
Not only does each characterintroduce a new letter, but it
also ignites a spark within youto think beyond the boundaries
of the traditional alphabet.
It encourages embracing theunlimited potential of language.

(50:34):
In this tale, dr Seuss inspiresreaders of all ages to push the
boundaries of their creativityand broaden their understanding
of communication.
The On Beyond Zebra tells usthat language is a living,
evolving entity that can bemolded and expanded to suit our
needs and imaginations.
However, on Beyond Zebra isamong the six books no longer in

(50:57):
print by Dr Seuss Enterprisesciting potentially insensitive
imagery and content.
While it does not containovertly racist caricatures, like
some of the other discontinuedbooks, it has been criticized
for perpetuating stereotypes andpresenting potentially
offensive content.
Some illustrations in the bookhave raised concerns.

(51:17):
For instance, one creaturecalled the Nazim of Basim is
depicted riding a camel-leggedcreature and wearing an
exaggerated turban.
This portrayal can be seen asstereotypes about people from
the Middle East or South Asia.
Dr Seuss books have often beenportrayed as inspirational
stories that encouragecreativity and free thinking,

(51:40):
and there is no denying that OnBeyond Zebra is no exception.
But in acknowledging outdatedstereotypes, the publisher of
this book has decided to haltits publications, emphasizing
the need for inclusive andrespectful literature.
Next, one Scrambled Egg superwith an exclamation point.
I don't remember this oneeither.

(52:01):
This sounds like your jam,though.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
I don't know if I think that's good or not.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
I do like scrambled eggs.
Yeah Well, it's a story aboutsomebody who travels the world
looking for the best scrambledeggs.
I don't know if you'd bewilling to try other scrambled
eggs though.
Yeah, okay, never mind.
Another charming tale takes youon a delightful culinary
adventure as young Peter THooper engages in a quest to

(52:29):
create the most extraordinaryscrambled eggs ever made.
Peter travels far and widecollecting exotic eggs from a
variety of unusual birds tocreate his one-of-a-kind
scrambled eggs dish.
From the tree-dwelling ziffsand their blue eggs to the rare
whippoorwill, each bird and itsunique egg contribute to a

(52:49):
flavorful masterpiece that Peteraspires to create.
As you journey alongside Peter,you'll be inspired by his
determination andresourcefulness in pursuing his
culinary goal.
The primary concern withScrambled Egg Super lies in its
portrayal of certain characters,which perpetuates cultural

(53:09):
stereotypes.
One such character is theruffled-necked Salamagooks, a
bird from the fictional MountSukukuk.
This bird is depicted wearing afur hat and boots which
resemble traditional clothingworn by indigenous people from
the Arctic region, such as Inuitand Yupik communities.

(53:29):
The book also containsillustrations of a bird named
Ali, hailing from the fictitiousIsle of Nantasket.
However, the illustrationdepicts Ali wearing a turban and
holding a parasol, which raisessome concerns.
This portrayal oversimplifiesthe rich and diverse cultures of

(53:52):
the Middle East and South Asiaas mere caricatures.
Another one I've never heard ofthe Cat's Quizzer.
And these books were justbanned, like four years ago,
like I feel like I should knowthem.
The book invites you to join themischievous cat in the hat as
he tests your knowledge on awide range of subjects.

(54:13):
Packed with amusingillustrations and clever
questions, this book willchallenge and entertain readers
of all ages.
And real quick, I just had athought.
And before I lose it, if thecat in the hat, so they want to
say they're being self-righteousand upstanding and doing the
right thing.
But they didn't ban the cat inthe hat because he's basically

(54:37):
the face of Dr Seuss, right?
But he was also problematicbecause it said in the beginning
that I feel like it said in thebeginning of the podcast I
prepared.
It did say that in thebeginning.
It did say it.
I also said in the beginningthat the cat in the hat may have

(54:59):
been based on the lady thatworked the elevator in his
publisher's building, who wasblack and wore white gloves.
Ah, mm-hmm, and if you think ofthe cat in the hat as a black
stereotype, you can kind of seeit.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
Yeah, I don't really remember the cat.
It's not my favorite.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
It's not my favorite either, but it's the one
everybody knows.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
I don't care for the shenanigans?
Oh, I'm not care for theshenanigans.
Oh, I'm not a fan ofshenanigans.
Oh, I'm not a fan of that.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Gotcha, I understand, I don't like pranks.
I mean, green Eggs and Ham isyour jam.
Until he agrees at the end,yeah, yeah, then he ruins it.
He does, all right.
Packed with amusingillustrations and clever
questions, this book willchallenge and entertain readers
of all ages.
Picture yourself in a quiz withthe cat in the hat.
Answer a series of thoughtprovoking questions that make

(55:50):
you think and have fun whilelearning.
Covering topics such asgeography, history, animals and
more, the Cat's Quizzer offers afun and interactive way to
expand your knowledge whileenjoying the whimsical world of
Dr Seuss.
And interactive way to expandyour knowledge while enjoying
the whimsical world of Dr Seuss.
As you journey through the book, you'll encounter quirky

(56:10):
questions that spark curiosityand creativity, encouraging you
to think outside the box andembrace the joy of learning.
With its playful rhymes andimaginative illustrations, the
Cat's Quizzer serves as areminder of the power of
curiosity and the importance oflifelong learning.
One example of not goodness.
That's an official title.

(56:32):
Exactly.
I just love it.
I'm submitting it toMerriam-Webster.
I love it.
Is the depiction of a Japanesecharacter referred to as a
Japanese, of a Japanesecharacter referred to as a
Japanese.
The character is shown wearinga traditional Japanese kimono
and sandals, carrying anumbrella, and has exaggerated

(56:53):
facial features.
Now, that is problematic.
I've never heard the wordJapanese as a racial slur, but I
guess it's all in context.
The portrayal could be deemedoffensive as it reduces the
diverse and rich Japaneseculture to a mere caricature,
thus diminishing itssignificance and value.
Another issue is the use ofinsensitive language when

(57:15):
referring to different groups ofpeople.
For instance, one question inthe quiz asks how old do you
have to be to be a Japanese?
Again, it's kind of a weirdquestion.
Yeah, that one's just goingover my head.
This phrasing reinforcesstereotypes and fails to treat
the subject with respect andsensitivity it deserves, which I
get that, and I always say thatI can have any opinion that I

(57:38):
want on other races, cultures,whatever, but I'm not those
people, so it's not up to me todecide whether it's offensive or
not.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
And that's exactly how I feel and why I feel like I
can't.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Right.
But I also wonder when they'remaking these decisions.
Like did the Dr Seuss, whateverthat organization is did they
bring in Japanese people, inuitpeople, african people and ask
them what their opinions were?
Or did a bunch of white peoplesit around and decide this is
offensive.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
That's my other issue with things.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
Yeah, it's a big issue that they don't bring the
people into the room, and that'sacross the board on basically
everything.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Well, and it's also a problem, because I know, with
the renaming of certain sportsteams there is a local high
school.
The name of this area is IndianRiver.
Yes, and the name of the highschool is Indian River High
School, indian River SchoolDistrict.
Their mascot is an Indian.

(58:41):
There is a movement to havethat changed.
However, from what I understand, the local Nanticoke tribe is
not the one pushing for thechange.
It's white people, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
There is also a big push because there's a lot of
people that moved here fromelsewhere.
They want to change the name ofa lot of the area here, such as
Slaughter Beach.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
I knew that was going to be the first one you said,
but that's what happened there.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
There's another one.
No, it's not a prime.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
It's kill.
Broadkill, broadkill, um, theywant those names changed but are
they bringing the people to thetable?

Speaker 3 (59:32):
and that's just it like when they want to change
the whole name of the area, butthen you, when they have talked
to the native tribe and is thatpart of their history like, are
they proud that it's?
from what I understand, themascot that features on all of

(59:53):
their stuff is a chief or as ahigher up, and it is not as
problematic as white people aremaking it, and I think that part
of the problem is that theywant to again.
They want to whitewasheverything Instead of taking
into consideration that thesethings have been named these

(01:00:13):
things forever because of someof the probably not the Indian
River, but I wonder if thisfalls into two people trying to
make themselves feel betterabout how they feel and that is
what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Like they are actually racist and they feel
better doing Just like.
A lot of white men have maybebeen attracted to a man before
or been turned on on bysomething and now they hate all
gays.
Back to Dr Sue.
She's done raging again for aminute.

(01:00:50):
Oh, the places will go.
Oh, the places will go All right.
So now we're going to get toGreen Eggs and Ham, the
inspiration for this week'spodcast.
Because today, the day we'rerecording, tuesday, august 12th,
is the 65th anniversary ofGreen Eggs and Ham.
Green Eggs and Ham is a child'sbook by Dr Seuss.
It was published by theBeginner Books in print of

(01:01:13):
Random House on August 12th 1960.
The book follows Sam IM as hefollows an unnamed man,
repeatedly asking him if hewould like to try some green
eggs and ham before the maneventually tries it and likes it
.
Seuss began writing Green Eggsand Ham after his editor,
bennett Cerf, bet him $50 thathe could not write an engaging

(01:01:36):
children's book with avocabulary of 50 words.
That's the thing I didn'trealize.
I mean, I know it's veryrepetitive, but he only uses 50
words in that book.
Finding the challenge difficult, seuss used notes, charts and
checklists to keep track of hisprogress.
The book covers themes ofconflict between individuals,

(01:01:58):
though Seuss has said that itlacks any deeper meaning.
The Green Eggs and Ham waswidely praised by critics for
its writing and illustration,and the challenge of writing a
book in 50 words is regarded asa success.
The book has been the subjectof multiple adaptations,
including a television series ofthe same name in 2019.

(01:02:21):
So the plot is Sam IM offers anunnamed man a plate of green
eggs and ham, but the man tellshim that he hates the food.
Heather just keeps shaking herhead.
No, for those of you that don'tremember or haven't listened,
she is a very picky eater.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
We recently found out that there is an actual eating
disorder for what I have.
Okay, and I feel I've beenvindicated at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
She doesn't eat anything green anyway, but she
does eat eggs I'll eat greenpurple.
I won't eat anything purplewhat green stuff do you eat?
I guess you'll eat a salad oncein a while.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
I did I actually have been on a salad kick here
recently.
I've had a lot of salads in thelast week you don't eat like
avocados.
I do actually eat avocados.
I've been on an avocado kick aswell, I'm so proud of you.
I eat sourdough bread withavocado Avocado too.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I don't like sourdough bread.
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Been on a guacamole kick.
I've been on a hummus kick.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
I won't eat hummus because it's called hummus and
it's made out of chickpeas, andI don't want to eat anything
called chickpea or a garbanzobean Either way you want to talk
about it.
And I won't eat beets becausethey smell like dirt.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Beets are nasty.
Nobody likes beets.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
They just say they don't like beets.
It's funny that you should saythat, because my co-worker just
told me how he drinks beet juiceevery day and then he said, no,
it's flavored.
And I'm like that makes it evenworse.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
It's like I always said about Lysol, because our
ex-family, if you'll remember,in the bathroom they had Lysol
and I'm like I hate the smell ofLysol anyway and then when you
spray it in the bathroom afteryou've used the restroom now it
just smells like shit and LysolLike it smells so much worse.
But anyway, I digress.

(01:04:13):
Sam continues to follow the man, asking him to eat the food in
some locations house box, car,tree train, dark rain boat
locations house box, car, treetrain, dark rain boat and with
some animals mouse, fox, goatfor dining partners.
Finally, when the man agrees totry the dish sam I am has
offered, he realizes that hedoes like green eggs and ham, he

(01:04:36):
announces that he will eat themanywhere and he thanks sam I am
so I would probably try greeneggs, but I don't like ham.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
I have had green eggs .
Ew, I mean, it's just foodcoloring.
I know we used to make greeneggs and ham at the restaurant
for St Patrick's Day.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Adorable Green Eggs and Ham was written by Theodore
Seuss Geisel under his pen name,dr Seuss.
He wrote the book after hiseditor at Random House, bennett
Scherf, bet him $50 that hecould not write an engaging
children's book using avocabulary of only 50 distinct
words.
The bet was a response toSeuss's previous success, the

(01:05:18):
Cat in the Hat, which waswritten using 236 distinct words
.
Cat in the Hat, which waswritten using 236 distinct words
.
Seuss took extensive notes towork out how to best use 50
words, creating different chartsand checklists.
By the time he finishedarranging the words, he had
memorized many of the statisticsof how he used them.
Seuss found the restrictionsespecially challenging and he

(01:05:40):
rewrote many pages before he wassatisfied with the rhymes.
The drafts were typed on ricepaper which Zeus attached to his
illustrations.
His wife, helen Palmer,sometimes placed his discarded
drafts back on his desk in thehope that he would approve of
them after looking at them asecond time, though he rarely
did.

(01:06:03):
Early drafts had the unnamed manspeak more aggressively to
Sam-I-Am when the two characterswere in a car atop a tree.
He was originally written assaying Sam-I-Am, you let me be,
not in a car, you, let me be.
I hear you.
That's the Heather version ofthe unnamed man.
Suze changed this to.

(01:06:24):
I would not, could not in atree, not in a car.
You let me be.
I would say I would not with aduck.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
I do not give a fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
I wonder how many rhymes he wrote with cuss words,
Like he had to have done thatunless he had no sense of humor.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
I mean duck and fuck is right there.
You have to.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
I would, making the outburst less direct and moving
the exclamation point away fromthe command.
In another example he iswritten as saying I do not like
you, sam, I am.
The drafts also describe thesubject as green ham and eggs,
instead of the final wordinggreen eggs and ham.
Dr Seuss finished writing GreenEggs and Ham in the early
spring of 1960.

(01:07:05):
A reading was scheduled forApril 19th in the office of Luis
Bonino at Random House.
These readings were oftenattended by the entire staff,
but Cerf was out of the officethat day, so a dinner party was
arranged for the reading.
The reading ended with applause, but Seuss remained
self-critical and scrutinizedpages that he felt did not get

(01:07:26):
the reactions he had hoped.
That's what happens when youtry to write with only 50 words.
Phyllis Cerf had intended toannounce Green Eggs and Ham with
two other children's books Areyou my Mother and Put Me in the
Zoo?
And a publicist was sent torequest that reviewers postpone
reviews after advance sheets hadbeen distributed early.

(01:07:48):
Distributed early All thesewords keep tripping me up.
Green Eggs and Ham waspublished on August 12, 1960.
At the time, approximately 3million Dr Seuss books had
already been sold.
Dr Seuss believed thatchildren's books had more power
to do good or evil for societythan any other medium, and Green

(01:08:09):
Eggs and Ham was the first ofSeuss's beginner books to carry
a lesson for children.
Despite this, dr Seuss has saidthat there is no deeper meaning
in the book, insisting that theonly meaning was that Bennett
Cerf, my publisher, bet me 50bucks.
I couldn't write a book usingonly 50 words.
Green Eggs and Ham reverses thetraditional structure of an

(01:08:31):
adult trying to convince a childto try new foods.
It is one of many Dr Seussbooks about a defiance of norms,
in this case the persistence ofSam-I-Am after his offer of
green eggs and ham is rejected.
It explores the underlyingsocial connections between
individuals set in opposition toeach other, but it does so in a

(01:08:53):
way that appeals to theinterests of children.
Both characters refuse to movefrom their decision throughout
the book until the adult finallygives in at the end.
Now, what cracks me up aboutthat paragraph is the paragraph
before.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Seuss said himself it had no meaning.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
It had no meaning.
I was simply trying to win the50 bucks, like that's it, but of
course everybody has to.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
Oh, speaking of which , oh, my God did you see Taylor
Swift announced her new album.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
Oh my God, I can't believe.

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
I didn't talk about that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Oh I know it's.
Oh my God, did you see?
Taylor Swift announced her newalbum?
Oh my God.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
I can't believe I didn't talk about that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Oh, I know it's not been released yet and I have not
listened to their podcast yet,but I will be listening to that
one.
Green Eggs and Ham.
Only uses 50 words and herethey are.
Oh, boy, am and anywhere are be, boat, box, car, could dark do

(01:09:49):
eat eggs, fox, goat, good greenham here house.
I, if in let like, may me mousenot on or rain sam say, see so,
thank that the them there.
They train tree try will withwood would and you, and yes, I
did practice that earlier.
That's a lot of pronouns itseems like 50 words sounds like

(01:10:13):
a lot, but that's not a lot ofwords.
It's really not.
Of these words anywhere is theonly one to have more than one
syllable.
The different words arecombined for a total length of
681 words, and the most commonwords are not and I, which are
used 82 and 81 timesrespectively.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Coincidentally, those are my most common words also.
Not, I Not.
I.
I will not.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
In a boat on a goat fuck fuck a duck, I don't give a
fuck, fuck the duck, fuck, duck.
Um.
The narrative of green eggs andham is told in a question and
answer structure.
Consistent use of the name samI am, instead of simply sam,
allowed Seuss to maintain meterwhile rhyming it with the

(01:11:03):
eponymous green eggs and ham,sam I am.
The title of Green Eggs and Hamis a play on the common phrase
ham and eggs, inverting it todraw the reader's attention.
It has been reported that thebook was banned in China from
1965 to 1991 because itsupposedly contained themes of

(01:11:24):
early Marxism.
This 50 word thing where hejust wanted to win 50 bucks.
I mean seriously people get ittogether.
That is to say Soviet stylesocialism, which was at odds
with Chinese socialism.
With Chinese socialism,allegedly, the breakfast was
interpreted as a metaphor forSoviet socialism, with many

(01:11:46):
initially rejecting it buteventually coming to enjoy it
after quote unquote trying it.
So did the Soviets eat greeneggs and ham?
Like I'm not seeing theconnection here.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
Green eggs and ham was widely praised upon its
release and reviewersoverwhelmingly celebrated that
the book was written using only50 distinct words.
Emily maxwell of the new yorkercommented on seuss's use of the
vocabulary, saying that readinghim, one is hardly aware that
there are more than 50 words.

(01:12:22):
It was praised for its rhythmand illustrations, as well as
its use of rhymes.
The humorous nature of the bookalso received positivity and no
racist caricatures.
Apparently that's what Score.
In 1967, green Eggs and Hamranked as the best-selling

(01:12:43):
children's book.
At the end of 2000, it had sold8,143,088 copies, making it the
most popular book by Dr Seussand the all-time fourth
best-selling hardcoverchildren's book in the United
States.
At Dr Seuss's alma mater,dartmouth College, it became an
inside joke that the book'stitle was a reference to the

(01:13:06):
breakfast food served in the offon campus cafeteria when Dr
Seuss received an honorarydoctorate from Princeton
University in 19.
University you know what I mean.
In 1985, the graduating classrose and recited Green Eggs and
Ham in its entirety for him,which I think sounds amazing.

(01:13:29):
I would have loved to have seenthat.
Seems, long though it would havebeen pretty cool though, Sam.
I am.
Dr Seuss reportedly spent therest of his life enduring gifts
of Green eggs and ham, which hedescribed as deplorable stuff.
Dude, this was his one.
You know how every band has.
Oh my god, I have to sing thissong in every concert now, like

(01:13:51):
this was his that song, um.
Later in life he said thatgreen eggs and ham was the only
book of his that still made himlaugh, probably because of the
absurdity that followed it.
The Green Eggs and Ham Cafeopened in the Seuss Landing
Island at the Universal Islandsof Adventure theme park in 1999.

(01:14:12):
It closed in 2015 beforereopening in 2019.
The cafe serves the titularGreen Eggs and Ham, as well as
other foods featured in dr seussbooks.
No, thank you, um.
Us district court judge jamesmurad reference green eggs and

(01:14:32):
ham in his september 21st 2007court ruling after receiving an
egg in the mail from prisonercharles j wolf, who was
protesting against the prisondiet.
That would be you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
I think probably I would actually like a prison
diet, probably Bread.
I love cafeteria food.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Yeah, I'm a fan of cafeteria food too.
Muirhead ordered the eggdestroyed and rendered his
judgment in the style of Seuss.
Senator Ted Cruz read the bookon the floor of the United
States Senate during hisfilibuster over the funding of
the Affordable Care Act.
Do you want to make the samejoke?
I thought of it was probablythe only book that he could read

(01:15:12):
.
Could read, yeah, so that's whyhe read it.
684 words does not fill a lotof time in a filibuster, but
it's not very long.
Yeah, and it's very wrong.
Look at you sucing it up overthere.
Rhyme, I got rhyme bro musicianwill I am has stated that his

(01:15:33):
moniker is inspired by the story.
Many parodies of green eggs andham have been created,
including a rap song by moxiefruvos there's two dots over the
?
U, so I don't know if I saidthat right and a sketch on
Saturday Night Live featured theminister, jesse Jackson,
reading the book during a sermon.
I do remember that I know me too.

(01:15:53):
Green Eggs and Ham has beenadapted into stage and
television versions.
In 1973, the year I was born,it was adapted as an animated
television special alongside theSneetches and the Zacks.
Originally titled Dr Seuss onthe Loose, the special was later
renamed Green Eggs and Ham andOther Stories.

(01:16:13):
The book was adapted as a videogame for the Game Boy Advance
Dr Seuss, green Eggs and Ham,published by New Kid Company and
released on November 17, 2003.
A television adaptation wasreleased by Netflix in 2019,
also titled Green Eggs and Ham.
It stars Adam Devine asSam-I-Am, a wildlife protector,

(01:16:37):
and Michael Douglas as theunnamed man, a failed inventor
who is given the name Guy MI.
For the series.
The show introduces newcharacter settings and plots
independently from the book.
A graphic novel, green Eggs andHam Takes a Hike, released on
January 7, 2025, is written andillustrated by James Kachulka.

(01:17:00):
In the graphic novel, theunnamed man's name is Walter.
And now I hope you learned alot about Dr Seuss.
I have some fun facts Not thatthat whole thing wasn't fun
facts, fun facts, fun facts.
Dr Seuss was voted least likelyto succeed by his classmates at
Dartmouth College.

(01:17:21):
Oops, mm-hmm seed by hisclassmates at Dartmouth College
Oops.
Dr Seuss is credited withinventing the word nerd, which
first appeared in If I Ran a Zooin 1950.
In Dr Seuss's 1950 compositionof Whimsy If I Ran the Zoo, we
have what seems to be the firstoccurrence of nerd in print.

(01:17:42):
The zoo we have what seems tobe the first occurrence of nerd
in print.
And then, just to show them,I'll sail to Katru and bring
back an itkuch, a preep and apru, a nurkle, a nerd and a seer
seeker too.
In October of the followingyear, newsweek carried an
article about the latest slangthat includes the word nerd In

(01:18:04):
Detroit.
It notes someone who once wouldhave been called a drip or a
square.
Remember when people werecalled squares?
Yep, that's hilarious it now?

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
regret is now regrettably, a nerd or, in less
severe cases, a scurf.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
I don't know what my mother is cooking down there,
but it smells delicious.
Guys like you.
Guys might be able to hear mystomach growling throughout this
podcast because I'm so sorrywhat she's making down there,
but it seriously smells likefried chicken right now.
It's not until the 1960s,however, that nerd uh takes off
and starts appearing morefrequently in running text.
Over the decade and into the70s, print usage of nerd became

(01:18:49):
truly abundant.
It could be said then that nerdestablished colloquial usage
around that time.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
I am a nerd, I am self-identifying as a nerd.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Yeah, I think nerds are proud of themselves now as
well.
They should be.
They're far better than themorons.
Dr Seuss liked that Seussrhymed with Mother Goose, so he
adopted that pronunciationrather than Saus, which is the
correct German pronunciation,and I'm going to call him Dr

(01:19:20):
Saus for the rest of my life.
And I am going to call him DrSouse for the rest of my life.
Yeah, that Seuss is much better.
Finally, and this was myfavorite fun fact, the title
character of Yertle the Turtlewas based on Adolf Hitler.
The story follows Yertle, theambitious and power-hungry king

(01:19:43):
who harbors grand aspirations ofdominance over his pond.
Dr Seuss, known for his cleverand imaginative storytelling,
revealed that Yertle the turtleis meant to serve as a symbolic
representation of Adolf Hitler,giles Yertle's oppressive reign
over his pond and his insatiablepursuit of power to the

(01:20:05):
authoritarian regime of AdolfHitler in Nazi Germany.
So yeah, Next time you readYertle the Turtle, you're going
to see it very differently.
Sounds like somebody else, weknow, not named Adolf Hitler,
but anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Yeah, we've been controversial enough in this
episode that we should probablystay away from it, we might
actually get arrested.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
The orange menace yeah, we engaged in that
conversation prior to recordingand that really fueled a lot of
the rage.
That was in this podcast andprobably will be for the next
three and a half years Hopefullynot more, but yeah, that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
Obviously my favorite Dr Seuss is the Grinch,
although I don't agree with himbeing okay with Christmas at the
end.
I think it goes off a littlebit there.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
Yeah, it's like the unnamed man in Green Eggs and
Ham.
Yeah, stick to your ground.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
But that was very good.
Thank you, I did want tointerject my 57 cents.
Do it I did want to give someof my favorite Dr Seuss quotes,
because I have a few that I havepretty much modeled my whole
self Today.
You are you.
That is truer than true.

(01:21:31):
There is no one alive who isyou-er than you.
I love that.
Unless someone like you cares awhole awful lot, nothing is
going to get better, it's not.
Specifically the it's not partthat's from the Lorax, because

(01:21:51):
they cut down all his trees.
And my all-time favorite DrSeuss quote and the one that I
live by nearly every day why fitin when you were born to stand
out?

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
That's that about that, exactly so.
Like share rate review.
Thank you for listening.
We have given you back to backhour and a half.
Sorry If you had three hours tokill.
Thanks, thank you for listening.
Like share rate review.

(01:22:28):
Find us where you listen to allpodcasts.
Follow us on all the socials.
At like whatever pod, send usan email about your favorite Dr
Seuss quote, or if you want thatcode, or if you are bet rivers,
or if you are Bet Rivers, oryou want to give us money, or
any of the above.
At like whatever pod.

(01:22:48):
At gmailcom.
Or don't like whatever,whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Bye.