Killer Karaoke, Rhyme and Punishment

Join us in our latest episode as we uncover the chilling stories behind some of your favorite songs. Music has always served as a rich narrative vessel, and in this episode, we dive deep into a thematic exploration of how artists use their platforms to reflect harrowing true crime events. 

We'll discuss gripping songs like "The Way" by Fastball, inspired by the disappearance of an elderly couple, and analyze how this tragedy is transformed into an uplifting melody infused with darker undertones. As we unpack each song’s inspirations, listeners will learn how music not only entertains but also illuminates complex societal issues, inviting reflection and dialogue.

We also delve into the haunting lyrics of “Suffer Little Children” by The Smiths, shedding light on the notorious Moores murders and the societal implications intertwined with it. This song unfolds like a cautionary tale, provoking thought on how narratives are constructed and whom we choose to remember. The emotional resonance of “Polly” by Nirvana brings forth a discussion on survival and the grim realities faced by victims, highlighting the need for societal awareness regarding these serious subjects.

Listeners will hear about various other songs and their real-life inspirations, from U2's commentary on political turmoil with “Sunday Bloody Sunday” to reflecting on the unjust societal neglect faced by Georgia Lee Moses in Tom Waits' “Georgia Lee.” Each selection serves as a powerful reminder of music’s ability to capture both the beauty and horror of the human experience.

We encourage our audience to engage with us, sharing their thoughts on the songs discussed and any that have touched them personally. Subscribe for more deep dives into the intersecting worlds of art, culture, and true crime, and let’s continue this conversation together! #truecrime #90s #music #80s #genx

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Two best friends.
We're talking the past, frommistakes to arcades.
We're having a blast.
Teenage dreams, neon screens,it was all rad and no one knew
me Like you know.
It's like whatever.
Together forever, we're neverthe best ever Laughing and
sharing our stories.
Clever, we'll take you back.

(00:25):
It's like whatever.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello and welcome to Like Whatever a podcast for by
and about Gen X.
I'm Nicole and this is my BFFF,heather, hello, so um, we are
recording and not in our normalwe are, and it does feel funky,
it does it does feel weird.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Um we are, because nicole was in my neck of the
woods this week, so I didn'thave to.
She has to drive the hour and Idon't now.
So, yes, we are recording at myuh, my mom's house, because she
has this giant room that shedoes not use.
Yes, because they bought ahouse that's too big for them.
Yes, so if it sounds weird,that's why you're gonna hear

(01:14):
traffic, because I don't haveany way to block that window off
.
So, yeah, yeah and we couldn'tdo it at my house because my
bird would scream the entiretime and you would have heard it
.
Nobody wants to hear my birdscream.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Not during the podcast.
No.
So, how was your week?
It was good.
I'm having a hectic week thisweek and it's stressing me out
because I'm used to doing a lotof sitting.
I'm a big fan of doing nothing.
Me too.
I'm a big fan of doing nothing,me too, and you know, yesterday

(01:45):
was busy, today I was judging astatewide competition all day,
and now I'm here.
Tomorrow's work, thursday'slong, friday's long, but
Saturday's my birthday?
Yes, it is, it is birthday week.
It is birthday week that keepsme going, because I love

(02:05):
birthday week.
It is birthday week that keepsme keeps me going, because I
love birthday week.
What are you gonna do for yourbirthday?
Um, I think I haven't totallydecided, but I think I want to
go to the brandywine zoo,because I haven't been there in
a very long time and myhusband's never been there, and
I want to go into old newcastleand walk around because again.
haven't done it in a long time.
Maybe get lunch at the oldtavern there and all that.

(02:29):
So yeah, that's where I'm atright now, Unless I think of
something better.
That's fine.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
That sounds nice.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, yeah, it should be what about you?
Anything good this week?

Speaker 3 (02:41):
I am home alone for I don't know how long Possibly
ever, I don't know.
My husband went to pick up mystepdaughter's car in Florida,
and so maybe he'll just staythere.
I don't know.
Yeah, he loves it there.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, maybe he loves it there more than he loves you.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
That I know 100%.
That is 100% true there morethan he loves you.
That I know a hundred percent.
That is a hundred percent true.
Right, there's no doubt in mymind that he loves the state of
florida more than he loves me,and that's fine yeah, you know
it's fine so yeah, I'm trying tothink um.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I watched the oscars I did not, it was all right.
I mean, zoe zeldana's speechwas awesome.
I didn't see any of it, butyeah, yeah, it was all right.
I mean, I'm not a big fan ofthe Oscars.
It's too uptight for me.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
I usually like watching what they wear, but I
do like to see what they wear.
I actually totally forgot itwas on Sunday and then it got
too late and I was like, oh well, and I had to take him to the
airport Monday morning.
So before work, yeah, I droveto Newcastle and then went to
work.
Ew, yeah, and here's the crazypart.
So not some of you know this,because you know us but so he

(04:00):
left at a Newcastle which islike two hours from our house.
I drove him up in the morninghe had to be there at five
dropped him off and then I drovedown to rehoboth where I work
and when I pulled into lewis Idid the flight tracker thing so
I could see his plane was takingoff at 6 15.
So he was there for an hour.
When I pulled into lewis hisplane had taken off and was in

(04:21):
georgetown.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Was flying over georgia the time it took me to
drive the entire state.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
I was like how's that even fair?
I do love that airport, though.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
It's so easy it's stupid easy to get in and out of
.
Yeah, yeah, I wish I had moreflights out of there.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, I took it when I went to Fort Myers in November
and it just, it's like youalmost feel like you're doing
something wrong.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, those little airports like that.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
That's how Salisbury is too.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Well, because he said Sunday, maybe I should just go
up Sunday and just stay in theairport.
And I was like, I'm pretty sureyou can't stay in the airport.
It's like Salisbury where theyclose, right.
And he was like, oh, I didn'tthink of that.
And he was like, well, maybeI'll just get a hotel room.
And I was like, whatever youwant to do.
And then he didn't get homefrom whatever it was he was

(05:16):
doing until 8.45 at night and Isaid if you, think I'm driving
to Newcastle right now you'renuts.
So I took him out before workand then I went to work and then
I was very tired.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, that was the right choice, though I think so
I definitely would have done itin the morning, before 8.45.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, Because I wouldn't have gotten home till 2
.
And then I would have had totry and go to sleep and then I
had to get up at 6.
And so I was like I mean that's?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
crazy talk.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
That's bedtime, so I ended up getting up at 2.30 and
made yesterday very long, but Iwent to bed early last night, so
yeah, and you had the whole bedand I slept like a log, so I
did have the whole bed to myself.
everybody in the house was happy, except with cats.
I forgot to buy cat food, andthat's another thing.

(05:55):
I said, oh shit, I forgot tobuy cat food, so they're gonna
freak out.
So I gave him dog food and andhe was like you know, you really
shouldn't give cats dog food.
It has too much carbs in it,like they get grains and stuff.
It was one meal Cats aren'tsupposed to have that.
They're supposed to have allprotein.
And I was like you do know,cats eat out of garbage

(06:18):
dumpsters, right?
So I feel like one day of dogfood will be fine for them,
although they did throw up thismorning, so I guess they're.
Yeah, well they'll be all right,Like I was, like yo, picky.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
And one of them.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
I got off the street out of a dumpster, so like, what
are you doing?

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, yeah, they're fine.
Yeah, that's been my adventurethis week.
And then who knows when he'scoming back because he's
bringing that car up.
So if that car even makes it up, maybe he'll get stranded and
you'll get like another week outof this.
I can't even man, that would begreat.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
I love my alone time and my doing nothing.
I didn't turn the TV on.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
That's why I didn't watch I had been home.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, I just sit in the quietyeah, with my bird.
I love the quiet and the dogyes, yeah so, anyway, that's
that about that, yeah, yeah.
So I'm excited about this thisweek.
So this week I got to combinemy love of true crime with the

(07:22):
topic.
I finally got what I want to do, so we're going to trigger
warning this, because there'strue crime, there's talk of true
crime on this one.
There's murder and all kinds ofcool stuff.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
My favorite.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, so let's fuck around and find out about songs
that involve a true crime.
Woo-hoo.
A true crime, woohoo.
My sources werePasteMagazinecom,
thoughtcatalogcom,americansongwritercom and
Grungecom.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
So my whole inspiration for this was the
first one, and they're allmostly Gen X, like I may have
stretched a little bit, butthey're all you know.
Either the song was done,they're all songs we know yeah.
Right, and you know they'reeither done in our time or the

(08:15):
crime happened in our time.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
But look, you get it, the first one, and the
inspiration was fastball the waygosh, I love that song and I've
known, I think, pretty muchsince it came out what it was
about, which just makes me loveit even more I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
I did know it was about a true crime story, but I
didn't know the story and Iheard it on last podcast on the
left and another one and I waslike oh that makes a lot of
sense yep.
So in 1997, which the fastballsthe way, was released january
7th 1998.

(08:56):
Okay, c, squarely in the gen xzone.
Yeah, in 1997, um, an elderlycouple named the howards lived
in Salado Texas and they plannedto go to a fiddling festival 15
miles from their home.
Lila Howard was 83 years oldand was showing signs that she

(09:18):
was suffering from Alzheimer's.
Raymond Howard was 88 and hadrecently suffered a stroke and
head injury which requiredsurgery.
So, first of all, who in helllet these people on their own?

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, who didn't take their car keys away, at least?
I mean, my grandma fought mydad when the time came, but he
said no, I'm taking the keys.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
I'm not blaming anybody, but you know this
probably right.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
This whole situation could have been maybe their I'm
not blaming anybody, but thiswhole situation could have been.
Maybe their kids live far awayand they didn't realize.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Anyway, I digress.
So the Howard's son had calledthat morning, concerned about
his parents' cognitive healthand begging them to let him
drive them to the festival.
Okay, so he's off the hook,although he did still let them
do it.
A couple said that they wouldbe fine, since they attended the
festival every year, so theywould be fine.
Right A 500 miles away, apolice officer pulled a couple

(10:14):
over for driving at night withtheir headlights off.
Lila, who was driving the onewith Alzheimer's perfect was
driving Couldn't tell theofficer where they lived.
The officer gave her a warningto turn her lights on and sent
them on their way Again.
Come on now, like she didn'tknow where she lived.

(10:34):
She's driving.
She's 80 years old, I think.
Maybe that cop.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, how about?
Is there someone we can callfor you.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
And you're 500 miles away from where you started.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, I mean yes, oh, my God, if I got 500 miles from
where I started, I wouldn'tknow how to get back to where I
was supposed to be going,especially if I was only
supposed to go 15 miles to afiddler.
So I feel like she was likewe're never going to get there.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Where were they going without ever knowing the way?
Get there.
Where were they going withoutever knowing the way?
Three days after the couple wasreported missing by their
children, they attended afarmer's market in arkansas.
A search of the couple's homerevealed that they left their
cat toiletries and clothingbehind.
The calendar in the howard homewas displaying february, though
it was June when they left.

(11:23):
14 days after the couple leftfor their 15-mile trip, they
were found with their car at thebottom of a cliff near Hot
Springs, arkansas.
There was no skid marks on theroad on the top of the cliff
indicating that they had notslowed down before flying off of
it?

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, because she decided we're just never going
to get there, fuck it, I'm justgoing to drive off this cliff
here.
I am sick of driving.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
I have had it.
I'm getting out of this car.
They did not slow down beforeflying off either, because they
could not see or understand thatthey were driving off a cliff.
I mean, first of all, they werefrom Texas.
I don't think they have cliffsin Texas, like probably I've

(12:06):
never been to.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Texas.
She was like oh, what's downthere?
Check it out really quickly Ourdark side of sense of humor is
shining through.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Or because at least one of them was suicidal.
I don't believe that one either.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
I don't believe that, no, no, I.
I don't believe that one either.
I don't believe that.
No, no, I definitely don'tthink that was the case.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
No, they weren't going to Thelma and Louise it.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
And you're not going to drive hundreds of miles.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
To drive off a cliff, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Just turn the gas on the stove and close the windows
yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Or sit down with crab legs and popcorn shrimp.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Well, that's your dream.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
That is my dream, that's your dream.
I told somebody at work thattoday she came over and was like
you know, Acme's having theirseafood sale tomorrow?
And I was like really, I can'teat crab meat.
And she was like, oh.
I was like not until it's mytime, Not until I'm ready to
leave the earth.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yes, and I swear to God, if you do it without me,
I'm not calling 911.
I just want to watch.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
You want to watch me die?
I hear it's a horrible death.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
We'll find out.
See, you need somebody to watchto see if it was horrible.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
You better bring a gun.
I got a report back and abullet.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
In case it goes bad, I'm not shooting you, okay,
that's fair.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, how about a hose?
And then you just stick thehose in the door.
Maybe I'll hook the hose upjust in case.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Okay, you can be like dr kevorkian it oh yeah, yeah,
I'd assist, okay, yeah, soundsgood I love it, although this
house has a garage, so I just doit here.
There you go you know, untilyou inherit it, that won't be
long she's decided she's dyingnext year.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
So, yeah, I, I don't know why she, they made us
because, okay, here's the thingmy parents, my mom is a little
italian lady.
First of all, I have to lectureher because she's got like I
don't know, the half the cabinetin there is Ziploc bags of all
sizes, shape sizes.
She's got three things of waxpaper.

(14:09):
Who in the hell uses wax paper?

Speaker 2 (14:11):
to begin with.
I mean I do, but I've had thesame box probably for 10 years.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Okay, so she has also , but she also has two new ones
too.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
And they're all open oh.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Yeah, and then she's got like Ziploc bags in every
shape size there's generic,there's Ziploc, there's the
whole gamut, there's gallon,there's freezer sandwich,
they're all open.
And I just cleaned this shitout.
Like two months ago I got inthere and I said do not buy any

(14:41):
more sandwich bags.
And I took her down and nowshe's back up because she's been
buying sandwich bags, becauseshe says her down and now she's
back up because she's beenbuying sandwich bags Because she
says I never know when I'mgoing to need them.
You don't need that many.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
There are two of them here.
How many things do they need tobag up she?

Speaker 3 (14:55):
told me today a lot, oh, okay, and then she tried to
give me used tinfoil.
Anyway, they made Nicole dinnerBecause Nicole's here, they
made her dinner.
They do love me, they do theyhate me.
I don't know.
Nicole might be in the will andnot me.
You might have to let me livein this house.
I would Thanks.
Yeah, anyway, back to our story.

(15:20):
Yeah yeah, um.
Tony scalzo, who is the leadsinger, the front man for um
fastball, read about the caseright after the couple was
reported missing, but beforetheir bodies were found, his
fascination turned into thelyrics.
For the way he said it's aromanticized take on what

(15:42):
happened.
The howards children that's aromanticized take on what
happened.
The Howard's children that's aromanticized take on what
happened.
The Howard's children reportedthat they were happy the couple
was together when they died.
He explained the meaning bysaying these people are gone and
their kids are all adults.
It's their lives.
They're probably just trying toget back that flavor of young
love and adventure.
Let's go.

(16:03):
We don't have to tell anybodywhere we're going.
What business is that of theirs?
So the Way peaked at number oneon the US Billboard Modern Rock
Tracks chart in April of 98 andremained there for seven weeks.
It also reached number one inCanada on the week of June 15,
1998, and topped the RPMAlternative 30 chart for four

(16:27):
weeks.
Worldwide the song peaked atnumber seven in Sweden and
entered the top 20 in Australia,iceland and Norway.
The song was voted by VH1 asone of the 100 greatest songs of
the 90s, ranking it as number94.
I do love that song.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
I do too, and I like that it's in the top 100.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah, it's a cool song, it's a good.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Great music, yeah, great lyrics.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
It's a little catchy.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
And then, when you know the story, it's even better
.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, I mean, it is a crazy story.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
But, you know, yeah, and I remember thinking years
ago maybe they, you know, droveoff the cliff together, suicide.
But once you hear the wholestory you're like no, that's not
what was happening.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
I think they just got lost and confused.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
It might have been nighttime, I mean, nobody knows
when they drove off.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
We could have driven off the side of a mountain.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
We could have, we would have never known we might
have driven off a cliff, and wedon't know we're dead.
Yeah, maybe.
And we don't know we're dead.
Yeah, maybe we're bringing youthis podcast from the other side
.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
From hell.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
This podcast is from the depths of hell, because we
are not going to heaven.
I don't even want to go toheaven.
Hell, no.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
All the fun people are in hell.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Exactly, there's no gambling, there's nothing good,
yeah, no drugs, no drinking.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
No gambling.
You can't be gay, you can'thave tattoos.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Sounds stupid.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, I want to be where the gay people are.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Right, I want to be where the gay people are.
So the next one this story Ihate.
So the podcast I listen toright now currently I'm binging
is called my Favorite MurderOkay.
And it's a comedy about truecrime and you know, basically

(18:12):
it's what got you in thebeginning of it.
It was what got you into truecrime, like what was the crime
that?

Speaker 2 (18:18):
did it for you.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
And they do a comedy podcast on murders.
They just do murders of allsorts and I had heard about this
one actually on the lastpodcast, and the left too, but
my favorite murder did it and Ithink more of it Everybody has
done that, anyway.
Okay, the song is Suffer LittleChildren.
The Smiths, oh, yeah.

(18:42):
So it was included on the smithsalbum in february of 84 and
it's a b-side to the may 84single.
Heaven knows, I'm miserable now.
I hate morrissey.
Fyi, she really does.
I love the smiths and I hatemorrissey.
It's the weirdest thing.
I can't stand him.

(19:03):
I just want to punch him in theface.
He's such an arrogant prick.
I love him.
I like the Smiths, I don't likeMorrissey on his own.
I just think he's a jackassAnyway.
So the song is about the Mooresmurders that took place on the
Saddleworth Moor, whichoverlooks Manchester, between

(19:25):
1963 and 1965, committed by IanBrady and Myra Henley.
This story is nuts.
These two are nuts, I don'tthink I know this story, oh boy
so.
I'm just going to brieflybecause this is not a murder
podcast.
It is one of the morefascinating, I think, couple

(19:45):
murderers like how do you findthat out about your significant
other?
Like are you out on a date?
And you're like you know what Ilike to do?
murder children how do you feelabout that?
Like, how do these people findeach other?
It's scary, yeah.
So.
So Myra claims that she wasLike how do these people find
each other?
It's scary, yeah.
So Myra claims that she wascoerced into it.

(20:12):
Of course, but there's a littlebit of evidence that says
that's probably not 100% true.
Maybe, but I don't think so.
Anyway, the bodies of two ofthe victims were discovered in
1965 in graves dug onSaddleworth Moor.
A third grave was discoveredthere in 1987, more than 20

(20:33):
years after Brady and Henley'strial.
They killed five kids.
They took this is the okay, sothey I'm going to do this from
memory, because I didn't reallyactually look up the so they
would.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Oh, I did actually do that you sound like me, I did.
I remember now writing that wassuch a me thing to do so.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
It's because you have my microphone, I think so it's
not me, it's the microphone.
I thought I put it in there.
Okay, no, that's not me, it'sthe microphone.
I thought I put it in there.
Okay, no, that's probably Okay,anyway, anywho.
So what they did was they wouldpull up on their first victim

(21:18):
was Myra's sister's friend.
They're all school age kids.
She was like 12, 13 or 16,something like that.
So they pull up on her and theysay, hey, get in, I lost my
glove.
It's a very expensive glove,can you come help us find it?
And because the girl knew her,she said, cool, yeah.

(21:39):
So then they drove her out tothe moor and Myra sat in the car
and then he took out and rapedand killed her.
And then they did this fourmore times with four more
children Boys, girls, it was alittle bit of both.
There was no Right.
So they took them out and thenthey buried them in the moor.

(22:00):
So the fucked up part and youcan see these pictures they go
and picnic on the graves ofthese children with their little
picnic basket and their dog andthere's pictures of like they
take photos and all kinds ofstuff of them sitting on the
graves of these children.
That they murdered, oh my gosh,yeah, and that's why I say like

(22:23):
, okay, you know, was she real,because she's smiling in all the
pictures.
Right, she didn't kill any ofthem, but she helped Laura.
He did all the killing.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Well, that's how the Ken and Barbie murders were.
I don't think she murdered any,although the first victim was
her sister.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
That is one fucked up story.
They are nuts and she got awaywith it.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
yes, and she was just as guilty, like she was just as
bad, she was not influencedwell, see.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
So what they call it is um, it's called queen for the
day.
So if you're involved, ifthere's two of you involved, in
a murder plot.
They give one immunity, ofcourse, and they call it queen
for a day.
So, whatever you can say andtell them every little solitary
thing under the planet, and youare not held responsible for it

(23:15):
until they get, you'll getimmunity, right, queen for the
day, unless this has changedbecause of them.
Well, they were in Canada also,so you get queen for the day,
so she could tell everythingthat happened, but she failed to
mention that they recorded itall and then, after they gave
her her immunity, they found thetapes and found she was much

(23:41):
more involved than they thought.
Carla Homoka yeah, she has beenreleased, she's out.
Yeah, I don't understand that.
Yeah, she has been released,she's out.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, I don't understand that.
Yeah, but what do I know?

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, oh, I did see, it's right there.
Good, they lured the childrenout with the guys finding Myra's
glove At the time of theirdeaths.
Many of the victims were only afew years older than Morrissey
at the time.
He was born in 59.
And he wrote the lyrics of thesong after reading a book about
the murders.

(24:11):
Although five children weremurdered in the Morris case,
only three are named in the songJohn Kilbride oh John, you'll
Never Be a man.
Leslie Ann Downey.
Leslie Ann with your PrettyWhite Beads.
And Edward Evans Edward, seethose alluring lights.
The murders of Keith Bennett andPauline Reed were not

(24:31):
attributed to Myra Henley andIan Brady until 1985, after
Suffer Little Children hadalready been released.
The Manchester Evening Newsreported that relatives of the
Moore's murder victims had takenexception to the lyrics in
which three of the victims arementioned.
Some newspapers also claim thatthe single sleeve photo of Viv
Nicholson was intended toresemble Myra Hindley.

(24:52):
Subsequently, boots andWoolworth which Boots apparently
is a store like Woolworth'swithdrew both the album and the
single from sales.
Morrissey later established afriendship with Ann West, the
mother of Moore's victim, leslieAnn Downing.
After that she accepted theband's intentions were honorable

(25:14):
.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, I was thinking it is a flattering thing that,
like your children areimmortalized in a song.
That's probably because nobodyfucking likes Morrissey.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Literally anybody else they'd be like oh that's
very nice of you, but you'refucking Morrissey and a total
fucking dick, so there.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
My next one is Nirvana's Polly.
The song was written about thetrigger warning.
No-transcript, no-transcript.

(26:09):
So how do you get?

Speaker 2 (26:11):
good behavior.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
But he escaped twice, right?
Shouldn't you get more time forescaping?
Yeah, he didn't.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
I don't agree with shortening.
I watch.
Sorry to intervene, but Signsof a Psychopath has been our new
obsession.
We like to watch that atbedtime, except you have to read
, because a lot of it's they'reshort, they're only like 22
minutes but it's stories thatyou know, but it's just actually

(26:38):
like the interview with theperson who committed it and I
forgot where I was going withthis.
So, oh, you don't like it.
Like these people should neverbe set free.
Like they should get lifetimesentences because they're crazy
and they're smart and they'remanipulative.
So of course they're doing wellin prison and of course they

(27:01):
found God and of course theyhave done all the things they're
supposed to do because theywant to get back out so they can
murder more people.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yes, so I think they do have a rule that if you're
under a certain age it dependstoo if you're tried as an adult.
What they're trying to do is,if you are convicted of a life
sentence and you were under like21, then that is considered

(27:32):
like a special circumstance andthey're trying to pass it so
that you can get out at somepoint.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
And see, I don't agree with that either.
If a 14-year-old boy kills his10-year-old neighbor, that kid
is Well and in that case I agreewith you.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
but, like sometimes I think, if it's like a one-off
or, oh or you killed yourparents or something you know,
because they were abusing youlike I think it's for special
circumstances.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
You did a heinous thing, you killed your parents,
but yeah, but I still think ifthey're under age, particularly
quite young 12, 13, 14 they letthem out.
Um, they've been showing signssince they were like three when
they started killing animals, soyeah, there's also the head

(28:24):
injury.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Actually, I heard this is crazy today.
So there's three thingsBedwetting for serial killers,
bedwetting head injury as achild and torturing animals.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yes, those are three signs that you're probably going
to see.
Well, bedwetting is a big signof sexual abuse.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
So a lot of times that can be what triggers.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Most of these serial killers have had a shitty lot in
life.
And it's not a surprise thatthey became serial killers, and
so the head injury part of itmakes a lot of sense, because
you become a different personafter a head injury.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yes, and especially in a developing brain.
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
So I heard actually today, you know, because there's
been speculation of why arethere not as many serial killers
as there were in the 70s and80s?

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Because it seems like there was a Because it was
super easy to get away with itback then.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yes, Well one theory is that there was leaded gas and
now there's not leaded gasanymore.
Then the theory I heard todaywhich makes a lot of sense is
with the helicopter, parentingand stuff like that, everybody
was forced to wear helmets.
Every generation after us wasforced to wear helmets all the

(29:45):
time, so maybe head injuriesweren't as extensive as they
were prior to that, creatingserial killers.
Yeah, it's a good theory, so Ithought that was interesting
today.
I was like oh, that makes a lotof sense.
Obviously, there's still serialkillers happening, but there's
one in Canada, I think, rightnow.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, but in the 70s there was no DNA, there were no
cell phones, there weren'tcameras, I mean you could.
Literally there werehitchhikers, there were girls
standing on the side of the roadwith their thumbs out saying
let me get in your car.
I know.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
So that's another thing that they always talk
about.
On all those, you know it'salways hitchhikers and da, da,
da, and I was thinking about it,and when I was little my dad
would pick up hitchhikers allthe time in the 70s, um, we also
lived in a van, so you knowthere's that and he's they were
hippies, but we also like had tohitchhike quite a few times, um

(30:42):
, because my dad likes to takethe gas tank down to no gas,
which is where I get it from andwe would run out of gas all the
time, and then we would have tohitchhike.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, there wasn't a gas station every quarter mile.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
And there's no cell phones.
So if you couldn't, you'd haveto walk to somebody's you know
house and if they didn't let youin?
to use their phone then, and ifnobody answered the phone
because they didn't let you into use their phone, then, and if
nobody answered the phonebecause they weren't home or
whatever.
So we had to hitchhike a fewtimes and, um, but yeah, you
shouldn't, it's, it's not a goodidea, it's a very bad idea,
terrible idea, yeah, soopportunity isn't there anymore,

(31:18):
but there is a big project, um,going on right now because
Canada has a real problem withmissing indigenous women.
So it's bad.
So, yeah, I forget what it'scalled the project for missing

(31:39):
indigenous women.
I'll get into that later,because there is a song later
that I have a soapbox about.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
I can't wait, okay, nirvana.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Polly.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
And Gerald Friend.
He was not in prison longenough.
He was paroled in 1980.
After his 1987 offense he wassentenced to another two 75-year
terms at the Airway HeightsCorrection Center in Washington
State.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
That sounds like a lovely prison.
The.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
Airway Heights.
Well, it was as cool as WallaWalla.
They got some cool names herein Washington, so he got two
75-year terms for this.
For June 1987, he abducted the14-year-old girl at Knife Point
when she accepted a ride after arock concert.
He repeatedly raped andtortured her while she was tied
to a pulley suspended from theceiling of his mobile home.

(32:36):
Ugh, if you want to see here asick, sick, just the one that
has bothered me.
Like I don't get bothered by awhole lot, and this one, like
bothered me, it's called the toybox killer holy shit, he
recorded this what he says tothat he had them in like a um

(32:56):
tractor trailer bed or tractortrailer thing and he had it was
his torture room, he called itthe toy box and he would play
this, his recording over it.
Uh, and, and they played it onlast podcast online it is you
can hear it, it's disturbing.
So if you're into that kind ofthing, the toy box killer will
bother you.

(33:16):
It's very upsetting.
Um.
So at night point the girlescaped by jumping from his
truck at a gas station.
Friend was stopped a day laterfor a traffic violation and
arrested.
When the deputies recognizedhim he was convicted of first
degree kidnapping and rape.

(33:37):
That august he was ordered toserve the remainder of his 1960
sentence in addition to a second75-year sentence.
The following year his secondvictim sued the state and the
Department of Corrections forprematurely paroling Friend in
1980.
Police in King County suspectedFriend in the Green River
Killer case oh, Mm-hmm, itwasn't him though.

(33:59):
Oh okay and considered him asuspect in the murder of two
girls in Tacoma in 1987.
Also, what was up with thePacific Northwest?
Because, they had some many.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
That whole side of the country had a real serial
killer problem.
Oh yeah, the whole West.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Coast.
Yeah, they were thick withserial killers Ted Bundy and all
.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, they were thick , wasn't the Zodiac?
Killer?

Speaker 3 (34:23):
No, yeah, zodiaciac, who's?
The zodiac was california wascalifornia.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, who's the guy who broke into couples houses
and would tie the richardramirez right yeah yeah, he was
the um, not the golden statekiller.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Oh shit, maybe it was the golden state killer.
It might have been the goalthat's.
I think he is they just theyjust caught the golden state
killer a couple years ago.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, that's the old guy.
Yeah, I think it's richard.
It's not richard.
No, because they caught richardramirez back then.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Paul holes is the one , yeah and the one that they
just the golden state killerthey just caught is an old white
guy.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
D'Angelo is his name.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Isn't he a white guy?
Yeah, but the other one wasHispanic, richard.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Ramirez was a Hispanic.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
yes, Right right.
Anyway, back to Polly, we'renever going to get through this.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
We should just start a true crime because there's not
enough true crime podcasts onthe planet.
So the song Polly it's a truestory, said bassist Chris
Novosleck in a 1991 interview.
It's about a young girl who wasabducted.
The guy drove her around in hisvan, tortured her, raped her

(35:45):
and the only chance she had ofgetting away was to come on to
him and persuade him to untieher.
That's what she did and she gotaway.
Can you imagine how muchstrength that took?
On its surface, polly may comeacross as insensitive and an
exploitation of the victim, butthat was never Cobain's
intention.
Instead, polly is trying toconvey something deeper.

(36:05):
It's exposed the harsh anddisturbing reality of a rapist's
thought pattern and the need toeducate more men that rape is
not acceptable.
Polly was ranked number 18 in2004.
Polly was ranked number 18 in2004's Top 20 Nirvana Songs list

(36:26):
.
In 2015, rolling Stone rankedit number 29 in their ranking of
102 Nirvana songs.
In 2019, it was ranked atnumber 14 in the Guardians list
of Nirvana's 20 Greatest Songs.
In 2023, the AV Club ranked itat number 22 on their list of
Nirvana's 30 best songs.

(36:47):
According to Charles, our crossbiography, heavier Than Heaven,
american singer-songwriter BobDylan was impressed with Polly
upon hearing the song while at aNirvana concert, remarking of
Cobain that that kid has heart.
If you were some, oh, so thatkid had heart.
So here's my two cents.
Not two cents, but so if you orsomeone you know is a survivor

(37:12):
of rape, the RAINN NationalSexual Assault Hotline is
1-800-656-HOPE, that's 656-4673.
Or you can go to wwwrainorg.
They also have a crisis textline where you can text hello or

(37:34):
Ola to 741-741.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
So that's my PSA.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Nice, yeah, it's a good organization.
The next one, another of myleast favorites sunday bloody
sunday from youtube.
Bloody sunday, or the bog sidemassacre, was a massacre on
january 30th 1972 when britishsoldiers shot 26 unarmed

(38:01):
civilians during a protest marchin the Bogside area of Derry,
northern Ireland.
13 men were killed outright andthe death of another man four
months later was attributed togunshot injuries from the
incident.
Many of the victims were shotwhile fleeing from the soldiers
and some were shot while tryingto help the wounded.
Other protesters were injuredby shrapnel, rubber bullets or

(38:24):
batons.
Two were run down by BritishArmy vehicles and some were
beaten.
All of those shot were Catholic.
The march had been organized bythe Northern Ireland Civil
Rights Association to protestagainst internment without trial
.
The soldiers were from the 1stBattalion of the Parachute
Regiment, the same battalionimplicated in the Bally Murphy

(38:46):
Massacre several months before.
So clearly not good people.
Bloody Sunday came to beregarded as one of the most
significant events of theTroubles, which were an
ethno-nationalist conflict inNorthern Ireland that lasted for
about 30 years, from the late60s to 1998, also known
internationally as the NorthernIreland.
That lasted for about 30 years,from the late 60s to 1998.

(39:07):
Also known internationally asthe Northern Ireland conflict
and they say it ended GoodFriday with the Good Friday
Agreement in 98.
Although the troubles mostlytook place in Northern Ireland,
at times violence spilled overinto parts of the Republic of
Ireland, england and mainlandEurope.
So many civilians were killedby forces of the state in view
of the public and the press.
Wow, I know.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
We have one of those a week yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Well, you know, everybody should have a Second
Amendment, right, mm-hmm?
It says that in theConstitution, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
It says other stuff in the Constitution too that
we're just choosing to ignore.
I mean, we just disregard that.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
First Amendment to get to that second one.
So what do I know?
Bloody Sunday fueled Catholicand Irish nationalist
hostilities to the British Armyand worsened the conflict.
Support for the provisionalIrish Republican Army rose and
there was a surge of recruitmentinto the organization,
especially locally.
So U2's Sunday, bloody Sunday,was actually not the first.

(40:20):
There is another version of itby John Lennon.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Oh, I didn't know that I didn't either.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Um, sunday, bunday sunday version of the song.
Well, he had.
John lennon had a song.
I didn't look it up because Ididn't care that much.
Um, he has a song about bloodysunday called sunday, bloody
sunday.
I don't know if it's the sameas theirs, or I would imagine
it's not because U2 is Irish.
Yeah, look it up on your owntime.

(40:48):
That's your homework for nextweek.
Sunday, bloody Sunday.
U2's version of the song isdesigned to transport the
listener into 70s war-tornIreland, where you're present
watching the horror unfold as anobserver.
Their version of accounts areinstead inspired by their
passive-aggressive approach tothe situation, with verses like
how long must we sing this song,which signifies their anger

(41:10):
towards the authorities'approach to the situation.
However, that verse isimmediately followed by because
tonight we can be as one tonight, which signifies that the door
is still open for a peace treaty.
They also draw inspiration fromthe world-famous picture of
Edward Daly being spottedprotecting a group of survivors
attending to an injured boy bywaving a bloodstained

(41:33):
handkerchief.
In 2004, rolling Stone placedthe song at number 268 on the
list of the 500 greatest songsof all time.
The song was re-ranked 272 onthe magazine's 2010 version of
the list In 2006,.
Sunday Bloody Sunday was namedthe 18th greatest song of the

(41:54):
1980s.
I don't know about that.
The staff of the Rock and RollHall of Fame selected Sunday
Bloody Sunday as one of the 500songs that shaped rock and roll.
I don't know about that.
I mean 500, I guess maybebecause it's a lot of songs.
The New Statesman listed it asone of the top 20 political

(42:16):
songs and similarly, time namedit one of the top 10 protest
songs In 2019, I said, well,there's only 10.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
I was going to say how many protest songs are there
.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
I guess 10.
Rolling Stone ranked the songnumber 4 on their list of the 50
greatest U2 songs and in 2020,the Guardian ranked the song
number 5 on their list of the 40greatest U2 songs.
I mean, it's an okay song.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, I just think we've heard it so many times.
So many times, so very manytimes and again.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
I'm not a fan of U2.
No, you're not.
I don't like Bono.
I feel the same way about Bonoas I feel about Morrissey.
Really, yes, I do not.
So my next one, guys, I triedto talk my mom earlier into
coming on because we're here,and she said no.
So I'm sorry, guys, you don'tget that, although you probably

(43:13):
wouldn't have been able to tellthe difference between me and
her voices, because that's howmy sister got away with a lot of
shit, because I sound just likeher on the phone and we are
five years apart.
Like her on the phone and weare five years apart.
So when I came home fromdelaware and was living at home
again, yeah, she would get phonecalls home and I answered them

(43:35):
and pretended I was my momyou're such a good big sister
and they never have.
I've never, ever, ever told themever the shit she did.
So I'll tell you, because theydon't listen and she doesn't
either, so she doesn't care.
So one time she was like Idon't even know.

(43:55):
So I was 18, 19.
She would have been 14.
So I get a phone call and Ianswer it.
She had been in a slumber partyin Ocean City and the mother
calls and she says I, mrs Mickeyda-da-da, and she never let me
get in there.

(44:15):
I was not my mom, well, yeah,that's her fault.
Yeah, it is her fault.
So she goes on.
And how she caught the girlsall smoking and da-da-da-da-da
and I was just like that isterrible.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
And this is going on.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
I mean, that's all I could get in was oh no.
So finally she was like, so Ineed everyone to come get their
their daughters and I was likeokay, so I hung the phone up and
I get in the car now.
At the time I was driving mylincoln, my 1982 lincoln

(44:52):
continental.
No, I don't think I had thelincoln then.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I think I had the cavalier.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
I had the cavalier so I pull up and they're all all
the girls are standing outsidewith their stuff on the sidewalk
and I pull up and you can justsee the relief wash over her
face.
So she gets in the car and Ijust looked at her and she's

(45:16):
like, well, why are you here?
And I was like because I tookthe phone call.
And she was like mom doesn'tknow.
And I was like no, and I waslike here's what's going to
happen you are going to do allmy chores from now until I
decide that you're not going tohave to do them anymore, from

(45:36):
now until I decide that you'renot going to have to do them
anymore.
And I don't know what my momwas ever thinking when she'd be
like Heather do the dishes, andmy sister would pop up out of
nowhere and be like, oh, I'll dothem.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Very enthusiastically .

Speaker 3 (45:49):
So I don't know if my mom was like I don't know what
the fuck she did, but clearlyit's been taken care of and
she's being punished for it.
So I'm not gonna, she never,and I've never told her don't
ask, don't tell nope.
I guess she figured that she'sgot it handled so I'm not gonna
worry about what the problem isthere was many times that that

(46:12):
happened and the relief on mysister's face that happen and
the relief on my sister's facewas the best.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Anyway, I should tell her kids that story.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Yes, they would love that.
Yes, maybe, well, so don'tanybody tell my mom.
Anyway, I was going to bringher up here because she's like
Bruce Springsteen's number onefan.
This is Bruce Springsteen'sNebraska, but she hates this
album.
She told me 12 times.
In January of 1958, charlesStarkweather, a 19-year-old from

(46:47):
Lincoln, nebraska, met13-year-old Carly Ann Fugate.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Wait, how old was he?

Speaker 3 (46:52):
18.
Okay, 19.
She was 13.
18.
Okay 19.
She was 13.
And soon the young couple wenton a murderous spree across
Nebraska and Wyoming betweenNovember of 57 and January of 58
.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
All right, she was probably influenced by him.
I'm just going to go out on ashot, a long shot, here at 13.
All right, complete, continueyour story.
That look is saying otherwise.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Okay.
On January 21st 1958,starkweather went to Fugate's
home.
Fugate's mother and stepfather,velda and Marian Bartlett, told
him to stay away.
He fatally shot them.
Then clubbed them to death ohno.
Then clubbed to death theirtwo-year-old daughter, betty

(47:35):
Jean oh yeah.
He hid the bodies in anouthouse and chicken coop behind
the house.
Starkweather later said thatFugate was there the entire time
, but she said that when shearrived home Starkweather met
her with a gun and said that herfamily was being held hostage.
She said Starkweather told herthat if she cooperated with him
her family would be safe.
Otherwise they would be killed.

(47:58):
A note reading everybody issick with the flu.
The pair was stuck to thewindow and the pair remained in
the house until shortly beforethe police, who were alerted by
Fugate's suspicious grandmother,arrived.
On January 27th, starkweatherand Fugate drove to the
farmhouse of 78-year-old AugustMayer, one of the family's
friends, who lived in Bennett,nebraska.

(48:19):
Starkweather killed him with ashotgun blast to the head.
The pair drove their car intothe mud and then abandoned it
because they got stuck.
When Robert Jensen and CarolKing not the same Carol King two
local teenagers stopped to givethem a ride, starkweather
forced them to drive back to anabandoned storm cellar in
Bennett.
He shot Jensen in the back ofthe head.

(48:41):
He attempted to rape King, butKing put up too much resistance
for him to do so.
He became angry with her andfatally shot her as well.
Good for her, though.
Yes, well, they tell you fight.
Yeah, because you're going todie anyway.
Exactly Might as well go downfighting yeah, never, never go
to the second location.
No, never no fight to the deaththere, because if you, if they

(49:03):
get you in the car and you go toa second, it's way worse yeah,
and I never understand whypeople don't just jump out of
cars.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Once they have passed your turn and you're heading to
a desolate area, jump out.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
So you know how much I want to be carjacked.
Yes, because I have a plan,first of all kids, if you get
carjacked, which probably is nota thing anymore, but it was the
carjacker never puts theirseatbelt on, so wreck your car,
like, take a turn and send themthrough the windshield because

(49:36):
they do not put their seatbeltson.
Yep, wreck your car, yep.
Second of all, that would beplan b for me, but we're going
to a second location.
If you carjack me, we're goingto a second location and you
should know the rule of don'tlet anyone take you to a second
location, because it's not goingto go well for you.

(49:57):
And if you're carjacking,probably no one's going to miss
you and no one's going to reportyou missing, yeah.
So Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, anywho, mm-hmm.
So he killed her.
So Fugate Starkweather lateradmitted shooting Jansen but

(50:20):
claimed that Fugate.
Starkweather later admittedshooting Jensen but claimed that
Fugate shot King.
Fugate said she stayed in thecar the whole time.
The two fled Bennett andJensen's car.
Starkweather and Fugate droveto a wealthy section of Lincoln
where they entered the home ofindustrialist Chester Larrard
Ward and his wife ClaraStarkweather stabbed their maid
Lumilla to death.
Clara arrived first alone andwas also stabbed to death.

(50:44):
Starkweather later admitted tohaving thrown a knife at Clara
but insisted that Fugate hadstabbed her numerous times,
killing her.
When Laura Ward returned homethat evening, starkweather shot
and killed him.
While Starkweather shot andkilled him, while Starkweather

(51:05):
and Fugate were in the house,the Ward's newspaper arrived and
they cut out the front pagewhich was pictures of themselves
, oh and Fugate's dead family.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Well, I mean, it is pretty exciting when you make
the newspaper.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
I always cut it out when I was in the newspaper too
and you put it in your scrapbook.
Yes, this is what scrapbook.
Yes, this is what we did.
Yes, these pictures were foundon them later, casting doubt on
Fugate's claim that she didn'tknow her family was dead.
You can't really say you didn'tknow your family was dead when
you're carrying around thearticle that says, hey, your
family's dead, yeah, and yourpicture's there?

(51:34):
Yeah, and your picture's there,yeah.
After several sightings,starkweather and Fugate were
reported.
The Lincoln Police Departmentwas accused of incompetence for
being unable to capture the pair.
Vigilante gangs were formed andlocal sheriff Merle Kampoff
started forming a posse byarming men he found in bars
which is always a good idea,yeah, to start your own posse

(51:56):
and armed people in bars, yes.
Needing a new car because ofWard's Packard having been
identified.
The couple came upon travelingsalesman Merrill Collision
sleeping in his Buick along thehighway outside Douglas Wyoming,
which also is a terrible idea.
After Collision was awakened,he was fatally shot.

(52:16):
Starkweather later accusedFugate of performing a coup de
grace.
After his shotgun jam,starkweather claimed Fugate was
the most trigger-happy person hehad ever met.
Fugate denied ever havingkilled anyone and has always
maintained that Starkweather washolding her hostage by
threatening to kill her family,claiming she was unaware they

(52:37):
were already dead.
Judge Harry A Spencer did notbelieve her and determined that
she had numerous opportunitiesto escape.
I mean, on that, there is sucha thing as Stockholm.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Syndrome.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
So you know it's hard for them to escape.
If, if he had, you know yeah,and she was 13.
Yes, starkweather was convictedafter the jury deliberated for
only 22 hours for the murder ofjensen, which 22 hours seemed
like a really freaking long time, like most of these time you're

(53:15):
here.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Like the jury deliberated for 37 minutes and
then they came back and werelike hanging, Probably because
she was 13 and some people hadissue.
Oh that's true.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Well, that was just his trial, oh, the only.
For the murder of Jensen, theonly murder for which he was
tried.
On May 23rd 1958, he wassentenced to death and he was
executed in the electric chairat the Nebraska State
Penitentiary in Lincoln,nebraska, at 12.04 am on June 25

(53:45):
, 1959.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
Damn they didn't waste any time back then.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
No, they did not Fugate was convicted as an
accomplice and received a lifesentence on November 21, 1958.
She was paroled in June of 1976after serving 17 and a half
years at the NebraskaCorrectional Center for Women in
York, Nebraska.
She settled in Hillsdale,Michigan, where, oh and so she

(54:12):
End of sentence.
The next sentence is they arethe inspiration for the movie
Natural Born Killers.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Oh, yes, okay, I love that movie.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
So Nebraska.
The song is about them and hasappeared on several Springsteen
releases since its initialappearance.
A live version with fullinstrumentation appeared on live
1975 to 1985.
In 2003, the song was includedon the compilation album the
Essential Bruce Springsteen.

(54:46):
The song also appears in asegment of the video VH1
Storytellers.
It's also my mom's leastfavorite album of Bruce.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Springsteen.
The only song she likes on itis Atlantic City.
Yes, she told us that at shedid.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
It is um, so nebraska is a big departure from bruce
springsteen okay, his normalstuff.
It's very like um almostalternative.
Yeah, it's, it's very um notbruce britt scene, right it's.

(55:19):
It's a good I I actually like.
That's probably why she doesn'tlike it, because I like it
right yeah, so you should it's,but natural born killers is
based on those two.
Okay, and that is one of myfavorite movies of all time and
I meant to watch it before werecorded, but then I forgot
Because I love that movie somuch, even though I don't like

(55:40):
Woody Harrelson.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
What is wrong with you?
I don't know.
There's something very wrong.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
So the next couple I'm oh wait, there is one more
that I want to talk about, butwe'll get to this one first.
So judas priest has a songcalled the ripper, and you'll
never guess who that's about.
Um, an early judas priest trackfrom their second album, the
ripper, is a brief recounting ofthe crimes of uh jack the

(56:10):
ripper and they think that theyjust they did, they did figure
it out okay dna yeah yeah, okay,I wasn't sure if it had been
for sure it's not a hundredpercent, but the dna came back
okay it's, yeah, all but a donedeal and it was who they thought
it was yeah, yeah, um.

(56:30):
So jack the ripper did hisdirty work in the 1800s and was
never caught until well,obviously he's not caught
because he's dead.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
But yeah, they do think it was descendants get to
live with that.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
I mean they had to because he was one of their main
suspects.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
So they had to know it was him.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Anyway, there is some debate on whether or not Judas
Priest meant it as Jack theRipper, because it's just called
the Ripper If it was Jack theRipper or the Yorkshire Ripper.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Because the Yorkshire .

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Ripper, I believe was after Jack the Ripper.
Then we have this.
One's going to be my soapbox.
Okay, tom Waits, georgia Lee.
On August 13th 1997, a younggirl named Georgia Lee Moses
went missing from California.
A few days later, on August22nd, she was found in South
Pataloma dead in a grove oftrees.
Her killer was never found,just 12 years old when she

(57:22):
passed away.
The story touched Tom Waits somuch that he penned the song.
Georgia Lee.
Waits does well to reflect thestory's crucial elements of
neglect, poverty and the failureof society to protect its most
vulnerable members.
On top of that, his raw andemotive delivery forces you to
confront the uncomfortabletruths of social indifference
and the need for compassiontowards those in dire

(57:44):
circumstances.
It happened a few years, sothis is the part that's.
It's really fucking annoying.
It happened a few years afterthe death of poly class okay and
so poly class, like the wholestate of california, shut down
to try and find her because shewas a little white girl.
No disrespect to poly class andher family, but georgia lee

(58:08):
moses was a little black girland, um, she did not get the
same media coverage because theysaid she was probably just a
runaway.
Yeah, so this is soapbox time.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
So when Gabby Patino went missing, that's exactly the
first person I thought of whenyou said that.
Yes.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
There was another girl that went missing around
the same time who has not everbeen found.
They have not found that girl,and I should have.
I meant to check to see whather name was too, and that's
even the problem.
So you know Gabby Patino, butyou don't know this girl's name,
and that is the problem,because they're just cast aside.

(58:49):
And a lot of these serialkillers can get away with this
shit because they'remarginalized people that they
call them in the true crimecircles.
They call these people the lessdead because police don't put
the time and effort into it.
Nobody gives a shit about sexworkers going missing and drug

(59:13):
addicts going missing andeverything.
So they're called the less deadand that's why I say that there
is the missing and indigenouswomen in Canada and that's a.
You know, it's just.
It's just.
If you're a little white girl,yeah, you get a lot more
attention especially if you're ablonde, yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Yeah, it's unfortunate because there's a
lot of there's a lot of casesthat probably could be solved
it's awful with a little andsomething else that you said in
there.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
That also annoys me is so many times people reach
out and say their kid is missing, or even an adult.
But if it's a kid, oh, theyprobably ran away.
If you don't hear from her inlike 48 hours, call me.
This is my child.
Okay, I know they didn't runaway.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Luckily they have gotten better about that.
But in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90syeah, you were just a runaway
and call me back in three daysif they don't show up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Or an adult doesn't show up to work and leaves their
dog at home and doesn't answercalls from so and so and they're
like, well, they're adults.
Maybe they just took a vacationand didn't tell anybody who the
fuck does that Like?
That's your go-to.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Well, because, as an adult, you're allowed to just
disappear.
You are, so you can walk awayfrom your life.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
You, absolutely 1 million percent, can, but how?
What's the percentage of peoplethat do that versus?

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
And you're not going to walk away from your dog.
That to me is the big red flag.
If you just walked away fromyour dog or your pets or
whatever, very few people dothat.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Or oh, her purse is here and oh well, she probably
doesn't run away away.
You don't leave without yourpurse, right even if you don't
want to be found.
Your id, your wallet, yourphone, like yeah yeah, I mean, I
would leave my phone if I waswalking away from my life, so
nobody could track me.
True, but you're gonna take,but again, how many?

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
people just walk away from their life.
That's what I'm saying, though,is it?
It's probably more likely.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
When I do it, I move, I'm not going to walk away from
it all.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Just tell me where you are, that's all no.
I'm going to be a runaway.
Stop it, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
So I have two more that are just quick Because
they're pretty obvious.
Ted, just admit it by Jane'sAddiction, it's about Ted Bundy,
my favorite serial killer.
See, I'm not a fan.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
I'm a huge Ted Bundy fan.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
I'm a huge Ted Bundy fan.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Ted Bundy is one of those that's pretty crazy,
because he was typicallyhandsome.
I was going to say I think I dohave a small weird crush on him
.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
A lot of people do yeah, and that's how he got away
with it, because he was, I meanand Rule for one thing.
And Rule sat beside the manevery day, forever.
And Rule sat beside the manevery day, forever.
They released the fact thatthey knew the serial killer's
name was Ted and that he drove agold bug.
And she sat next to him andknew he drove a gold bug and did

(01:02:29):
not believe it was him.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Yeah, exactly, I love Ann Rule.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Yeah, she's great.
Her books are great, mm-hmm.
So yeah, that's about Ted Bundy.
Okay, jenny Was a Friend ofMine by the Killers is a song
written like an interrogationfor the murder of Jennifer Levin
by her boyfriend.
Hmm, this one, this one'sfucking crazy.

(01:02:58):
This song is about who isconsidered to be the grandmother
of school shootings.
I Don't Like Mondays by theBoomtown Rats was inspired by
the crimes of Brenda Ann Spencer.
On January 29th 1979, brenda AnnSpencer opened fire on an
elementary school across thestreet from her house.

(01:03:20):
She injured nine students andkilled two administrators.
When asked for her reasoningand motive for the crime, she
responded I don't like mondays.
So a cop ended up saving a lotmore kids because he commentated
a garbage truck and put it infront of her house so she
couldn't shoot, and then it wasreally bad.

(01:03:41):
The whole thing is very kind ofsad.
She had mental problems and herfather was an alcoholic and
there's some speculation thatthey lived in a house that was

(01:04:01):
littered with liquor bottles andpills and the only bed in the
place was a twin bed on thefloor in the living.
So take from that what you will.
And someone said she needed togo to a mental institution they
that they really thought she wasgoing to become a problem and

(01:04:23):
instead he bought her a 22caliber rifle oh okay which she
ended up shooting out the windowof her house because she didn't
like mondays.
Yeah, so it's fair yeah, um, anexecution by suzy and the
banshees was likely inspired bythe crimes of countess elizabeth
bathery I fucking love her.

(01:04:49):
Between 1595 and 1609, hungariancountess elizabeth bathery
tortured and killed anywherebetween 65 and 650 young girls
and women.
She is considered to be theworld's most prolific female
murderer, and even though hertrue number of her victim is
undetermined so she lived inthis castle they banished her to

(01:05:19):
this castle, okay, and she wascrazy.
She was batshit crazy, like ifshe were to be tried today she
would go into mental institutionbecause, she did not know she
was doing wrong, I don't think.
Oh, so what she did was shewould hire all of these servants

(01:05:39):
and she thought that she had tobathe in blood to either keep
her youth or something.
So she would kill them anddrain their blood into the
bathtub Her and this other maidshe had a.
I guess the maid was likeyou're not going to kill me.
She drained their blood into abathtub and she'd bathe in their

(01:06:00):
blood and then she just tossedthem out.
So the whole town went missing,like all the girls in the town
went missing, because they wouldsend them there to work and
then they just never came backand they found all this shit in
her yeah, she's fascinating.
And then they just never cameback and they found all this
shit in her.
Yeah, she's fascinating and sheis considered to be like one of

(01:06:21):
the first on record serialkillers.
She's batshit crazy and theywalled her up and it didn't help
.
So that's that about that.
My favorite serial killer isn'treally a serial killer, because
serial it's a very specificdefinition of serial killer.

(01:06:43):
You have to kill more than three.
There has to be a cooling offperiod.
Yes, blah, blah, blah.
Ed Gein hands down.
The man was batshit crazy.
He only killed, I think, Ithink, three, two or three, and
he's the one that that buffalobill from silence of the lambs

(01:07:07):
is based on right, alsoleatherface right um, because he
, you know he went grave robbingand skinned people and made
belts and cool stuff that youcan see online.
But he was put in the mentalbecause he didn't know what he
was doing was wrong and you know, I mean, they were already okay

(01:07:30):
.
You shouldn't kill two people,three people, that was probably
not right.
But what are them other deadpeople doing?
But just laying there?
Yeah, exactly why not become alamp, yeah, or a belt, a lovely
belt for real what do I know?

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
I'm sure human flesh makes fine leather.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
They used to make um, they used to make human flesh
books.
Yeah, doctors used to to makethe books out of human flesh,
and but that's not creepy it'svery hard to get one not that I
tried to find one, but it is.
They're not legal I wouldimagine yes, so you have to go

(01:08:11):
on the dark web for that.
Okay, so that was um, that wasmy fun that was fascinating.
I love that I liked, I like totell I I heard the fastballs the
way and I was like oh, I wonderhow many other songs, because I
never really thought about it.
And then, when I googled it,there are.

(01:08:32):
There are so much more thanjust the ones I picked.
I had, but this has alreadygone on for so long and I was
like we'll be here all day if Italk about them all, so I just
thought they were.
It was a good topic and I lovetrue crime.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Yeah, me too, and music, yes, it's a good
combination.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
It is Now if you all want to know what you're
listening to actually listen to.
You know a lot of these songsbecause on tiktok they do where
it's like have you ever actuallylistened to the words to this
song?

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
oh yeah, and most of the time you're like I did not
know that yeah, I'll even knowall the words to the song, but I
never put them together I justsang them yeah right, yeah, it's
crazy yeah uh, so that's thatabout that, all right, okay, um,
thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
You can like share rate review.
Find us where you listen topodcasts.
Follow us on all the socials,um, or you can send us an email
at likewhateverpodgmail.
Wait, at gmail.
I didn't see that.
It's okay, I got backed up.

(01:09:43):
Anyway send an emaillikewhateverpod at gmailcom.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Or don't.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
Like whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Whatever, bye, bye, bye.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Bye.