Rodney King and The L.A. Riot

Join us as we embark on a nostalgic adventure, revisiting the tumultuous yet humorous moments of our teenage years. Heather kicks things off with a hilarious and painful story of breaking her leg right before high school, setting the stage for a conversation full of laughter and resilience. We'll reminisce about the carefree days of youth, contrasting them with the cautiousness that seems to accompany adulthood, all while sharing a laugh over Heather's newfound chocolate milk obsession during Dry January.

As our conversation shifts gears, we delve into the complexities of Rodney King's life and the systemic racial issues that marked his experiences. From King's challenging upbringing to the infamous 1991 police brutality incident, we'll explore the myths and stereotypes that fueled racial prejudices, shedding light on the broader societal implications that still resonate today. The role of media and public outcry in sparking change is discussed, alongside the resilience required to confront these deeply ingrained issues.

Finally, we'll take you through the chaos of the LA riots and their ripple effects across the country. Personal stories of navigating the city without the comforts of modern technology blend with reflections on police accountability and community relations. We round off this eventful episode with insights into the devastating impact of natural disasters on communities, the emotional toll they take, and a lighthearted farewell encouraging listeners to stay engaged. Don't miss our musings on social media's future and an invitation to share your own stories with us. #genx #90s

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Two best friends.
We're talking the past, frommistakes to arcades.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
We're having a blast Teenage dreams, neon screens, it
was all rad and no one knew meLike you know.
It's like whatever.
Together forever, we're nevergonna sever Laughing and sharing
our stories.
Clever, we'll take you back.
It's like whatever.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Welcome to Like Whatever a podcast for, by and
about Gen X, I'm Nicole and thisis my BFFF, heather.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hello.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
So how was your week?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
My week has been less eventful than last week,
although I did fall taking thedog out.
That's always fun, Tweaked mylittle back a little bit, but
other than that it's been, youknow.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
You can't fall when you get over 50 anyway, no,
that's what I said.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
I was like great, I probably broke my hip and I'll
be in the hospital foreverRemember we could bounce up and
act like we were okay.
I don't think I ever couldbounce back up.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
You'd get embarrassed and be like oh no, I'm fine,
Jump back up, it's totally cool,I didn't just break my leg
Didn't even hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
No, actually, I did break my leg once at work and I
didn't know it.
Um, I was, oh, it was thesummer, august, right before my
freshman year of high school.
Yeah, um, I fell, uh, carryinga can of applesauce over to the

(01:40):
can opener, as I was doing thesalad bar, and I slipped and
fell and I went to try and getup and I felt like I could not
stand up.
So I was like, oh, I don't knowwhat's going on.
And I was yelling for help andno one could cared because there
was nobody in the kitchen.
We weren't busy at the time,everybody else was in the dining

(02:03):
room.
So I was like so I crawled outand I finally got them to to
help and they were like, oh,they helped me into the booth
and they were like oh, I'm sureyou're fine.
And I'm like I don't think I'mfine.
So there's a, um, not anemergency room, but like a.
This was, you know, way back inthe day.
So they weren't, they were itwas a, it was an emergency room,

(02:27):
like temporary, like for beach,you know anyway.
So they walked me, my mom andone of the hostesses, and my mom
is 5'5 and this hostess was sixfoot, she was very tall.
So they they walked me twoblocks down to the emergency

(02:47):
room and they did an x-ray andthen they said it's probably
just sprained and we have aheart attack coming in.
So you know, we're not going tobe able to get to you at any
point in the real new future, soyou might want to just go ahead
and go home.
So my mom was like all right.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I don't want to be here anyway.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
So they did put a splint on my leg and handed me
crutches and then left and theydidn't tell me how to use
crutches.
So I fell because I didn't knowhow to use crutches.
And then I got home and my mom,you know, put just put ice on
it, you'll be fine.
And I got home and the nextmorning I woke up and it hurt

(03:33):
like a lot and then the hospitalcalled and said oh shit.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Oops yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Hey, we finally looked at your x-rays and it's
not good, so we're going to needyou to come back.
So my dad had to drive me toLewis, to actual BB, because
they actually drove, I guess,the x-rays up too, because there
was no computers at the time.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Right.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I guess an actual doctor looked at them and was
like, yeah, you did it.
So I had to start my freshmanyear of high school with a cast
on my leg and crutches.
Good times.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Is that the only bone you've ever broken?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
That's the only bone I've ever broken.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
I've never broken a bone.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I broke a toe too, but I don't think that counts.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
I think I broke a toe .

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, I feel like everybody breaks a toe Pretty
much yeah.
So, yeah, fun fact aboutHeather, I have a broken, a
fractured ankle, whatever it is.
It was, and then it grew backreally, really well when they
honest, for reals, they x-rayedit again when they took the cast

(04:43):
off and they were like, oh, itreally healed.
Well, we can't even see whereit was, so maybe I didn't break
it.
It's hard to say.
Maybe it was like a hairlinefracture, I think it was a
hairline fracture, and I drink alot of milk.
So, I don't know.
If I just rebuilt my, I mightbe bionic.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I just see these little milkmen down there with,
like, their little hammers andstuff fixing up the bone.
I do as you're drinking milk.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
I have milk currently , it's not straight up.
I like sometimes to just put alittle bit of coffee in my milk
and that's basically what Idrink.
I pretend it's coffee when it'smostly just coffee flavored
milk.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
I've been on a big chocolate milk kick because I am
still doing dry January and Ihave to share that it sucks this
time around.
So I did it for the first timelast year but at that point I
was drinking more than I wantedto be drinking and I had some
bad habits that I wanted tobreak.

(05:42):
So it was great, like I feltbetter, I was sleeping better, I
was losing weight, like it wasall great.
But since then I only do like aglass of wine in the evening
and it's very relaxing and Ilike to have it.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
They say it's good for you too.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
I know, and it takes me a couple hours to even sip
through the wine Like I'm notdrinking it, but that fast.
But sip through the wine likeI'm not drinking it, but that
fast, but so that sucks becauseI miss it.
But then I tell myself well, ifyou're feeling like this, this
is why you need to be doing dryjanuary, because it's called
withdrawal yeah, it's alwaysgood to make sure that you can

(06:23):
do it, but yeah, so I haveneeded something to like replace
the wine Chocolate milk, it isyeah, whole milk, nesquik powder
, chocolate.
I mean, I make the real deal Now.
You're talking my language.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yep, I bring the spoon with it so I can
continually stir it as itsettles to the bottom see when I
make this is duncan, but when Imake my own coffee which is out
in the car.
Still, um, I feel it like I putmassive amounts of sugar in the
bottom.
Then I put my coffee I'm, I mixup instant coffee in a big two

(07:04):
quart.
Oh, I love instant.
Because you can make it sostrong yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, we have Nescafes on the weekend.
I'll look at Jay and say, gomake us Nescafes.
And he put cinnamon andeverything in it.
They were so good I have.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Starbucks as an instant coffee, and so I make
like two quarts of it at a timeand then I pour my coffee in,
and then about half coffee, halfand half I sometimes cream, but
mostly it's half and half.
And then I dump a lot ofHershey's syrup because the

(07:40):
sugar just wasn't enough.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's been great.
But I also have to say thatthis podcast is helping me to
get through dry January, becauseI am big on accountability and
integrity.
So I would either have to tellyou I broke it, which would suck
, or lie about it, or just notbring it up.
So now I have to just do it.

(08:02):
So, which is fine I can, I'mjust whining.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
I'm sure you can.
I just want to have like 15more days.
It's like two weeks.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
No, I'm just kidding.
I mean it's, it's not.
It's not like I'm freaking outor anything, but I'm just saying
it's funny that this time itwas so much harder when I was
drinking, so much less so well,it's the habit yeah, yeah, that
is it I think that's what any ofthe, any of the vices really
are.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's mostly the habits around it, and it's not
so much the, the substance, asit is the yeah, the fun of it
yeah, exactly, you, exactly, youknow heroin and so many rituals
around it.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
And another thing I had to do this week which my Gen
Xers will be able to relatebecause we're at a certain age.
I'm really good about taking mynighttime prescriptions.
I have high cholesterol and Ihave allergies and I have

(09:10):
arthritis, so I have a littlemuscle relaxer to help me go to
sleep at night.
But anyway, it's easy toremember to take those.
You know like you're going tobed, but I like to take vitamins
and supplements during the daybecause I think they keep me
awake at night if I take themtoo late.
I've just always kind of feltthat way like what vitamins?

Speaker 2 (09:33):
yeah, I don't know if they've been food yeah, yeah,
well, I have to take vitaminsbecause I have macular
degeneration yeah, so there'slike a special vitamin I have to
, I know, but like that's whatI'm saying Like vitamins come in
, are in food and that doesn'tmake you sleepy.
Oh yeah, that's true, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Good point.
I don't know, it's probablyjust in my head, but it's my
thing that, like I want to takethem during the day but you
can't take them until you'veeaten because then they hurt my
stomach.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
And so I just never would take them because I have a
very inconsistent breakfastschedule and every day looks,
every morning looks differentfor me.
You know my work I'm virtualand I'm in high schools and I'm
in the office.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
So like there's not a lot of structure in my mornings
, so I took out a pill plannerand I put my vitamins.
I started taking biotinrecently because I feel like my
hair is thinning, so you knowjust.
But I did, I did break that.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
I'm thinking about jumping on the magnesium train.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
I have magnesium too.
I might've put that in theretoo.
I think I did.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
I don't know anything about it, but it's supposed to
help your happy pills, right?

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, and it's just all around kind of good for
everything.
It's good for your immunesystem, it's good for your hair
bones.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well, so, speaking of hair, like you know, I've
always had like the thickesthair on the planet.
So, not fair, thickest hair onthe planet.
So not fair, like I have toshave three quarters of my head
just to have a hair that lookslike a normal people hair, and
she doesn't even care about herhair, not even a little bit, I
just cut it myself.
I thought one side of it I justtook scissors and went like and

(11:18):
just went in at it and I haven'tdone the other side yet, um, I
just so, but I have noticed thatI feel like it is actually
getting thinner.
It's weird, and I used to havea lot of hair.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, I never had a lot of hair.
I've always I've not had thinhair, but I do not make a thick
ponytail like ever.
So, yeah, I can't afford tolose any not make a thick
ponytail like ever.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
So, yeah, I can't afford to lose any.
So my uh, my hairstylist.
Every time I go to a newhairstylist, I'm like I have a
lot of hair, especially if I getit dyed.
I'm like I'm gonna warn youright now I have a lot.
You're gonna need to make uplike four more bowls of that and
they're like you have yourhairs to your shoulder, I'm like
, and it's gonna take every bitof four bowls.
There's a lot up here andthey're like oh, I, I figure.
And then they get into it andthey're like wow, you really do
have a lot.
I've been living with it for 50years.

(12:10):
But I have a.
I have a pill plan or two, I'mnot gonna lie do you?
For my happy pills.
But mine says poison on it, somine's cool yeah, no, mine's.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Mine's one that my father-in-law left here when he
passed.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
I didn't get the old people one.
I got the cool.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
I'm full-blown old people.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Mine's got a skeleton on it and it says poison.
You can get it on Amazon.
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, we'll see if I keep the habit going and then,
if I do, maybe I'll get myself acooler one.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
I'm going to look into the magnesium.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, yeah, definitely because my happy
pills probably could use a boost.
Yeah, mine too.
So, uh, a little bit of a heavytopic this week yeah but, um, I
, uh, I want to talk about itand I wanted to research it and
kind of remember all of it.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Um, I gotta admit I don't have a really big
recollection of a lot.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
That's all right.
That's all right.
So you're going to learn a lot.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
I am going to learn a lot Yep.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
So but we're going to fuck around and find out today
about Rodney King the RodneyKing beatings, the riots and
then I'll go over a little oflittle bit of reform.
Yeah, I say that lightly,anyway.

(13:33):
Anyway, I do love cops and I doappreciate the work that they
do.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
I like to show cops.
It's good.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
It's gonna do so.
This week's content came fromHistorycom, grungecom,
biographycom, the New York Timesand ThinkProgressorg.
So Rodney Glenn King was bornApril 2nd 1965, in Sacramento,

(14:04):
california.
He was the son of Ronald andOdessa King.
Rodney King grew up mostly inPasadena, where his family moved
soon after his birth.
In his memoir, the Riot Within,king recounts growing up with an
alcoholic and abusive fatherand the struggles that produced.
At a young age, his fatherworked two jobs and when King

(14:26):
was eight years old, his daddecided that he would take his
children along to his nightcustodial job.
While his father would drinkand listen to country music.
King and his brother wouldbuffer the floors until 2 am,
barely having a chance to getsome sleep before having to wake
up for the school in themorning.
As a result, king wasfrequently tired and
unresponsive in class, which ledto the school to place him in a

(14:49):
disabled learning class.
That's unfortunate.
It is, and I can really.
This hits me because I workwith high schoolers and I work
with students with disabilities,and some of those students have
learning disabilities,emotional disabilities any

(15:10):
disability.
So some of what these kids aregoing through, man like it's
crazy, Like this.
I mean it's a wonder they arewhere they are, that they are as
successful as they have been upto this point, because they're

(15:30):
not getting support from whoo,and there's a lot of bad things
going on in their livessometimes.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, that's why I had that issue with big brothers
, big sisters.
You know you, you see whatthese kids are going through and
you think I thought I had andyou think I thought I had it.
You know, right, I thought Iwas just because you know, I got
yelled at all the time.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
It's a very humbling experience.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
It definitely is.
A lot of these kids don't knowwhat love is.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
No.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
It's awful, anyway.
So King attended John Muir HighSchool and often talked about
being inspired by his socialstudies teacher, robert E Jones.
King's father died in 1984 atthe age of 42.
King had a daughter with hisgirlfriend, carmen Simpson.

(16:19):
He later married Danetta Lyles,which was the cousin of hate
crime victim James Byrd Jr andalso cousin of rapper Mac 10.
Oh, mm-hmm, and he had adaughter with her as well.
King and Lyles eventuallydivorced.
He later remarried and had adaughter with Crystal Waters.

(16:40):
This marriage also ended indivorce.
King was found dead in hisswimming pool on June 17th 2012,
in Rio Lato, california, at theage of 47.
Oh, wow, yeah.
So that's a little briefbiography of Mr King.

(17:01):
I'm getting thrown off becauseit's Martin Luther King's
birthday too and it literallyjust hit me that Rodney King
nevermind, don't mind me, I'm alittle slow sometimes.
So when I was saying King, Iwas like wait, no, oh, yeah,
okay, don't mind me, she gotherself confused.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
It happens a lot, A lot.
You don't even know how muchI'd have to edit out Like I
don't even know, Just run onLike what Huh?

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Anyway, king started drinking at an early age and had
various encounters with lawenforcement before the notorious
1991 assault and it's no wonderI mean this kid.
So in November 1989, he wasarrested for assault and robbery
and sentenced to two years inprison.
After one year King wasreleased on parole and found a

(17:56):
part-time job as a constructionworker at the LA Dodgers
baseball stadium.
That's a good job.
Yeah, king was anAfrican-American man who was a
victim of police brutality.
In the early hours of March 3rd1991, king and two friends,
pooh Allen and Freddie Helms,decided to go out after watching

(18:17):
a basketball game.
They'd all been drinking andKing was behind the wheel when
two California Highway Patrolofficers, tim and Melanie Singer
, spotted them speeding down the210 freeway.
Wait, are they?
I don't know.
I missed that when I wasreading through this.

(18:40):
Anyway, king reportedly led themon a high speed chase, running
a red light and nearly causingan accident, before finally
stopping near Hanson Dam Park.
By the time King stoppedofficers Lawrence Powell,
timothy Wind, theodore Brissino,rolando Solano and I don't even

(19:05):
care that I'm pronouncing thesepeople wrong because they're
awful and sergeant stacy coonhad all arrived at the scene.
The police ordered everyone outof the car, but only alan and
helms complied.
King stayed in the vehicleuntil police yelled at him a
second time to get out.
According to Melanie Singer'stestimony, when King did get out

(19:26):
of the car, he displayederratic behavior such as waving
at the police helicopter andwaving his butt at the officers
yeah, real threatening.
The officers would write intheir report that, due to his
behavior, they suspected King ofbeing under the influence of
PCP.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
That was one of those that they just literally said
everyone was on PCP To justifyyeah.
Everybody was on PCP.
It was like the most Yep.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
And I'll bet there was nary a drug test?
No, don't carry a drug test, no.
So PCP was believed wait, whichwas believed by the police to
give people under its influencesuperhuman strength.
Right, yeah, because pointingat a helicopter and shaking your
butt is exceptional strength.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, yes, it is.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
You have to really be doing PCP to do that?
Yeah, exactly.
This belief is actually a cruderegurgitation of a myth started
by Dr Hamilton Wright in 1910,which claimed that black people
experienced superhuman strengthunder the influence of cocaine
In the day King's toxologyreport was negative for PCP.

(20:46):
Imagine that After finallycatching Hold up.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Okay, Sorry, Um so cocaine.
But just black people gotsuperhuman strength, not white
people.
Correct?
Is that because it's a whitedrug?

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Oh, you know what I bet if cocaine was black powder
yeah, Then like yeah.
Yeah, because, oh yeah, I seewhat you're saying.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Hmm, that's just.
I mean of all of the drugs tomake you superhuman strength, I
can't imagine cocaine would be.
I mean it makes you talk a lot,but Well, that was 1910.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Oh 1910.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
But they literally put cocaine in everything in
1910.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Exactly, everybody has superhuman strength in 1910.
Maybe you know what.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Everybody has a superhuman strength in 1910.
Maybe you know what?
Maybe it did make theappearance of black people
having superhuman strength oncocaine because white people had
built up a tolerance forcocaine because it was literally
in the soda and in yourmedicine and you carried it in a
little vial.
Yes, yes.
Someday I am going to go into athrift store and look in the

(22:05):
jewelry thing and it is going tobe one of those little snifter
things with the tiny littlespoon and I'm going to be so
happy yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
That would be a really cool thing to find.
Sorry, I diverted.
After finally catching King'svehicle, police proceeded with
the arrest.
As King exited the vehicle,officer Kuhn claimed that he had
felt threatened but felt enoughconfidence in his officers to

(22:32):
take care of the situation.
Police alleged that Kingresisted, lying on the ground,
and after Kuhn yelled forofficers to stand, stand back,
he fired his taser twice at king.
Coon claimed that king wasunfazed by either taser strike
and officer solano, furthercollaborating, that king

(22:53):
proceeded to lunge at coon.
In his report, officer powellwrote that king was only
temporarily halted by the taserbefore appearing to attack again
.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
I didn't realize they were using tasers then.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Well, it was LA, so they probably had the fancy
stuff.
The police then proceeded tobeat King with their batons,
claiming that King continued toresist and struggle as the
officers used swarm techniquesto subdue him.
The officers noted the use offorce and batons in their
reports, concluding that it hadbeen justified given king's

(23:33):
aggressive nature.
Coon also wrote in hissergeant's log that king was
oblivious to pain.
Is that?
Also I mean that probably isthat comes from slavery.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Well, well, that, and I mean cocaine probably helps
that I know I didn't have anycocaine in there.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
But right, you know if you right, but that black
people being oblivious to pain.
I remember reading that thatwas something that they're not
real yeah rumored.
Yeah, uh, anyway, this notationalso bears racist undertones,
echoing the work of dr samuelcartwright, who in 1851 wrote of

(24:10):
enslaved people being invisibleto pain when subjected to
punishment.
Sorry, I didn't mean to laughthrough that.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
I just again did an idiot move and I just the whole
concept is just so difficult towrap your mind around that
simply because the outside ofyour skin is a different color,
that you would be somehowdifferent.

(24:37):
Yes, it's just.
But that is a lot of peoplebelieve that, oh, and still do,
and it's unreal to me, like Ijust Well, you just showed me
that video of the girl thatdidn't believe in dinosaurs.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
I mean I just, and if you're thinking that one skin
color over another would beinferior, I mean, technically,
white people would be theinferior, because we're not, and
how we populated the globe isawesome, because we're
colonizers, but we lack melanin.
Yes, and that's what you know.

(25:14):
That's why we have skin cancer,exactly, and we're you know,
white people were built to stayin the north.
Yeah, and we don't.
No, white people were built tostay in the.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
North yeah, and we don't no, and that's unfortunate
.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
We should go back to that, but it's just.
We are obviously the lesser ofthe two.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Right.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Because we lack melanin.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah.
After the beating, the policecalled an ambulance and King was
taken to Pacifica Hospital,with officers riding along.
Doctors gave King severalstitches, noting in his medical
records that he suffered abroken cheekbone and a broken
right ankle.
Afterward, king was moved to ajail ward at County USC Medical

(25:56):
Center where he was booked forevading and resisting arrest.
Now, mind you, when they pulledhim over I don't even think
there was a probable cause.
Was he speeding?
I don't know, I can't rememberif I said that he was speeding,
but I feel like I mean they canmake up any, yeah, yeah.

(26:17):
An uninvolved resident, georgeHoliday, saw and filmed the
incident from his nearby balconyand sent the footage, which
showed King on the ground beingbeaten after initially evading
arrest, to local news stationKTLA.
The incident was covered bynews media around the world and
caused a public uproar.
At a press conference, losAngeles Police Chief Daryl Gates

(26:39):
announced that the fourofficers involved would be
disciplined for use of excessiveforce and that three would face
criminal charges.
The LAPD initially charged Kingwith felony evading but later
dropped the charge, with hisinjuries evident a broken right

(27:00):
leg in a cast, his face badlycut and swollen bruises on his
body and a burn area to hischest where he had been jolted
with a stun gun.
King described how he had knelt, spread his hands out, then

(27:23):
slowly tried to move so as notto make any stupid moves, before
being hit across the face witha billy club and shocked with a
stun gun.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
See, and this is my issue with people who say
there's no such thing as whiteprivilege, because you do not
have to teach your son anddaughters what you can, what you
should and should not do whenpulled over.
All you have to tell them isdon't argue too much and give

(27:50):
them your license andregistration.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
You know what's been driving me crazy?
We've been watching.
The ID channel has a showcalled Very Evil People and it's
hosted by Donnie Wahlberg.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Keep forgetting to watch.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yes, and it's cool because of course we have
listened to all the serialkiller stuff.
We know all the stories, weknow all the players.
But this one actually, it doeskind of give more information.
It's got some bad reenacting init a little bit they all do.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
That's the best part of it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
But some of the survivors are on there, families
of survivors, and I am gettingmore detailed information, some
things like I didn't know fromit.
So it's pretty neat.
But in so many of these casesthese men are driving around
with bodies in their trunk,blood all over them, guns laying

(28:50):
on their front seat, cops arepulling them over and they're
like, oh yeah, I just shot abird.
And they're like, oh okay, goahead, and they just leave.
And I look at Jay and I'm likeit's so good to be a white male
and I don't hate men and I don'twant to do the whole man hater
thing.
It's not that, but just being awhite male, yes makes life

(29:11):
easier for you.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
The number one, the way you see it in in serial
killer jeffrey dalmer.
Yeah, they ran up to police andsaid he is with handcuffs on
now.
There was the added that theywere all gay and you know that
was a whole another.
You know, oh, we can't now wereally can't deal with the brown
people, because he's brown andgay and that's two strikes yeah

(29:34):
but they handed these kids,underage kids, back to jeffrey
dahmer.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yep, yep, and just go on about your way you know, the
one I was watching the othernight was, um, let me see who
was it.
It was the guy who went on thedating game.
Oh, rodney ocala.
Yeah, um, his first victim waslike an eight-year-old girl.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
And she didn't die because some guy saw her getting
picked up on the street.
Now why this guy didn't stop itwhen he saw it?
Because he could have savedthis girl a lot of trauma.
It was the 70s or 60s or 70s.
Yeah, but he did at least, and Iwill give him he did.
He followed him home and thenhe went and called the cops and
said hey, I just saw this, gocheck it out.

(30:29):
So they show up at his houseand you know, the little girl
was almost dead.
He had already raped heralready.
He was strangling her.
She lived.
She's on the show.
Yeah, she doesn't remember anyof it.
She's completely blacked out.
Every she remembers getting tohis house and that's the last
thing that she good, yeah,that's what I said but um, so
they have him for this.
And then I think she moved backto Mexico with family or
something.
They, the cops, went there, sawhis face through the door.

(30:50):
He ran and got away.
They came in and made thedecision to save the girl
instead of chase him yeah, ThankGod.
And so they did.
And so he just he runs off.
So, but the girl can identifyhim.
They walked in on it.
But they went to the college heworked for and they were like

(31:12):
no way, there's no way.
And they were all like allright, and they just didn't do
anything Like they saw him do it.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
He was naked when he answered the door if you listen
to any of these, I mean they andthey call them the less dead.
That's exactly it's.
It's it's sex workers and it'sright.
Um, especially is that there isa huge problem with indigenous
women going missing yes, and noone seems to give a shit, and
it's so unfortunate that it'sbig in the trans community as

(31:44):
well.
Yes, because they are, the lessthat's what it's they.
They call them, the less deadbecause it's these people prey
on people who are down on theirluck or, you know, in tough
circumstances or addiction andand so many things, and then no
one comes looking for them.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Oh, I remember what it was.
Sorry, real quick before Iforget.
The family didn't want to putthe little girl through the
trauma of going to court andhaving to face him and say what
happened and that's why they letthe case go.
Yeah, With all that evidence.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
It's just.
I mean, if you don't think thatwhite privilege is a thing, yes
, you should maybe.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah, read some more yeah, I mean, we're not.
We don't.
We're not blaming anybody, wecan't help how we were born, but
but acknowledge acknowledge itexists, yes, and and.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
And I think what bugs me is when these people are
like oh, I've had, you know,I've been down on my luck and I
don't have any money and I livein a.
Okay, but take that and add toit that you can't drive anywhere
without the thought of youpossibly getting killed by the
police, like it's just yes, youare down on your luck and that's

(33:02):
unfortunate, but you don't havethe added yes.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
And then if you have children, you have to worry
about them as well.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Especially a young black male.
I mean you have to just it's,just it's, it's horrible yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, it is.
So this all led to the LA riots.
At about 3.15 PM on Wednesday,April 29th, the jury released
their verdict.
All four officers wereacquitted of charges in the King
case, save for a mistrial onone charge against Powell of
excessive force.
The response was immediate asprotesters took to the street.

(33:37):
Hundreds of people gathered atthe Los Angeles County
Courthouse to protest theverdict.
Hundreds of people gathered atthe Los Angeles County
Courthouse to protest theverdict by 530,.
The unrest had grown violentnear the intersection of
Florence and Normandy Avenues inSouth LA, where locals attacked
passing motorists and forcedoverwhelmed LAPD officers to
retreat.

(33:57):
A news helicopter capturedfootage of white truck driver
Reginald Denny being pulled fromhis rig and beaten nearly to
death, with no signs of policeassistance.
Do you remember that?

Speaker 2 (34:09):
video.
I do remember that one.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Minutes later, a Latino driver named Fidel Lopez
endured a similar attack.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
And you know, and here's another issue with white
privilege, because I feel likewhen you see anything about the
LA riots, that's what you see.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
That is the video you see.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
That is the video that you see.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
You know what?
There was a period of timewhere, you know, I just hadn't
thought about it for a while,and when I did think about it, I
was picturing Rodney Kinggetting pulled out of a tractor
trailer.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
But the video is the white man being pulled out of
the tractor trailer, but that isthe memory engraved in my brain
when, any of it, it's exactly,and that is exactly the way it
was done, because when you thinkof Rodney King, you think of
Reginald Denning being pulledout of that tractor trailer and
being beat, and that's Yep, it's.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yep, when that really had nothing to do.
No.

(35:24):
Yep, when that really hadnothing to do with it, the
street where you can just videoeverything.
All the time you were soldgoods and that's what you
remember.
In a matter of hours,neighborhoods across South and
Central Los Angeles were inflames as rioters firebombed
thousands of buildings, smashedwindows, looted stores and
attacked the Parker CenterPolice Headquarters in downtown
LA.
By the end of the day,california Governor Pete Wilson
had declared state of emergencyand ordered the activation of

(35:48):
Reserve National Guard soldiers.
The citywide unrest showedlittle signs of abating on April
30th, prompting the suspicionof rapid transit mail service
schools and professional sportsgames.
Of rapid transit mail serviceschools and professional sports
games.
Suspension is the word I woulduse.

(36:09):
Many businesses closed, leavingresidents to wait in long lines
for food and gas, while otherstore owners, like bands of
armed Korean merchants, chose toengage the looters.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
And okay, look, it is unfortunate that they went
after these neighborhoods.
That should not have gone outand most of the neighborhoods
were black-owned, korean-owned,minority-owned, and that is
unfortunate.
I mean, violent looting andviolent rioting is never really
the answer, but you have tounderstand the frustration that
is built behind it.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Can you imagine that for decades you have been living
this life and finally you haveproof and evidence and, yes,
things are going to change,things are going to get better.
People are going to believe usand nothing happened.
What did you expect them to do?
Yeah, go home and just go abouttheir day.
Yeah, I mean.
But yes, violence is not theanswer and it is not fair to the

(37:07):
other people involved, but thatwas just a volcano ready to
erupt.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
It really was.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Although some 2,000 National Guardsmen had reached
the city by 8 o'clock thatmorning, a lack of proper
communication and equipmentprevented effective deployment
until later in the afternoon.
May 1st, the third day ofcontinued riots, was marked by
the televised appearance of King, who asked for the mayhem to
stop quietly pleading.
Can we all just get along?

(37:35):
Can we all get along?

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I think we all remember it.
As Can we all just get along?
Yeah, I thought so, that's oneof those Mandela effects they
talk about all the time.
Like Sinbad was in a movie.
Yes, apparently he wasn't Abouta genie.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
That evening, President George HW Bush also
took to the airwaves to denounceboth the senseless deaths of
the riots and the policebrutality that inspired them,
and to announce the dispatch ofthousands of federal officers to
Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's a great idea to put places under martial law.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, it's always a great idea.
By May 2nd, with 6,000 NationalGuardsmen, bolstered by the
addition of another 4,000federal troops and Marines, the
disorder had largely quelled.
An estimated 30,000 peoplemarched at a peaceful rally for
Korean merchants, and volunteersbegan cleaning up the streets.

(38:33):
Meanwhile, arraignments beganfor some 6,000 alleged looters
and arsonists.
I'll bet they got charged orconvicted.
I'm sure they did.
Highway exits reopened andpolice began recovering stolen
merchandise the following day,the only significant trouble

(38:55):
coming when National Guardsmenshot a driver who attempted to
run them over.
On May 4th, mayor Bradleylifted the citywide curfew and
residents attempted to resumeday-to-day activities, with
schools, businesses and rapidtransit resuming operations.
Federal troops stood down onMay 9th and the National Guard

(39:17):
soon followed, though somesoldiers remained until the end
of the month.
The final tally for the LAriots included 2,000 injuries,
12,000 arrests and 63 deathsattributed to the uprising.
Upwards of 3,000 buildings wereburned or destroyed and 3,000
businesses were affected as partof the $1 billion in damage

(39:40):
sustained by the city, leavingan estimated 20,000 to 40,000
people out of work.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
And that's unfortunate because it's 20,000
to 40,000 people who really wereprobably living paycheck to
paycheck.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Right, exactly, and they couldn't really afford.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
The whole thing is unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
So I also wanted to add to this story because I have
personal stories to go alongwith this was the effects that
this had in New York City.
So new nonviolent protestsagainst the Rodney King verdict
unfolded in New York City andNew Jersey Authorities in a half

(40:18):
dozen communities across themetropolitan area, toted up a
night of disorder by ugly crowdsthat smashed windows, hurled
rocks and bottles and engaged inminor looting.
But officials in New York andNew Rochelle, where most of the
trouble had occurred, noted thatthe level of violence was far

(40:41):
lower than in other cities hitby tremors from riot-torn Los
Angeles.
And while police said there hadbeen no deliberate policy of
restraint, some witnesses saidofficers avoided confrontations
where possible and that this mayhave eased tensions.
Now see, that's some smartpolice work.

(41:02):
Now see that's some smartpolice work, because that's one
thing I learned in mental healththat you have to diffuse the
situation Right.
If you both get angry, it's notgoing to go anywhere.
No Good, right, exactly.
And it's surprisingly easy tobring down the temperature with
people really.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, I would think so.
I plus, you know they probablywere on there binding their p's
and q's, knowing that theanybody was watching.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yes, and they were also probably pretty terrified
that they didn't want that tohappen they didn't want to get
killed.
Yeah, either, yeah, um.
So merchants swept up glass andboarded up the gaping holes of
broken windows in dozens ofshops in Greenwich Village and
New Rochelle, and there was noreoccurrence of the Friday night

(41:52):
violence that led to 121arrests and 41 minor injuries in
New York, the vandalization andlooting of 25 stores in New
Rochelle, and disturbances inNewark, jersey City and
Bridgeport, connecticut.
On a summer-like day of azureskies and drifting vanilla
clouds, it seemed more suited topicnics than protests.

(42:15):
500 to 1,000 demonstrators, ledby the Reverend Al Sharpton,
marched from police headquartersto Folly Square and City Hall
Park for a noisy but peacefulrally.
Violence is not the answer.
Amid chance of no justice, nopeace.
And stop the violence, stop thehate.
Mr Sharpton, who had broughtbusloads of people, told the

(42:38):
crowd outside the federalcourthouse of Foley Square that
change, not violence, was theanswer for those outraged by
Rodney King's verdict.
We are here to protest theviolence.
We are not the violent ones, hesaid.
Don't color us the bad guys.
We didn't get angry last night.
We've been angry all along.

(42:59):
I'm angry but I'm not mad.
I'm angry enough to changethings.
Clad in black sweatshirts andembellished, I'm going to.
I'm emblazoned Okay, I thinkthat's the first word I haven't
been able to say yet With yellowlettering.

(43:21):
Senator Sharpton, the candidatefor the Democratic Senate
nomination, had repeatedlywarned the marchers earlier that
anyone who became violent wouldbe turned into authorities.
But he sounded familiar tothank you themes against the
criminal justice system.

(43:44):
I've been reading too long, mybrain's getting tired.
I am not a reader, by the way,like it's not my forte.
I'm pretty sure I have alearning disability, but that
was undiagnosed.
But anyway, there has been theadministration of injustice in
New York City.
He said Rodney King is not anisolated case.
We know Rodney King is not anisolated case.
We know Rodney King's story alltoo well.
He named some blacks slain bythe police in recent years,

(44:08):
adding it is time for time thatmurderers pay the price, no
matter who the murderers are.
Amen to that.
Yeah, so I wanted to tell thatbecause so when those riots were
happening, so the verdict hadcome out, I think Friday, that
Saturday, friends of mine weregoing to the local community

(44:33):
college and this was 1991.
And or was it 92?

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Anyway, it was 91.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
91.
That's what I thought.
Oh yeah, it's right here.
Um, anyway, so, uh, they werein an art, my two for three.
No, it was three friends.
Um, they were in an art classand we did everything together,
but I was not in this classright and they were going on a
bus trip to New York City.

(45:01):
So we were going up to go to anart museum in New York City.
The bus got us up there andthen we were pretty much just
set free in the city.
Four 18 year olds just droppedin the middle of New York City.
So the good old days From.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Delaware From.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Delaware, exactly so you can only get two people in a
cab.
So two of my friends went aheadin one cab and me and one of my
friends were in the other caband our cab driver, like
literally did not speak anyEnglish and we weren't very
worldly, so we had no skillsAgain from Delaware.
We had absolutely no skills totry to figure out how to

(45:40):
communicate with this man.
So our friend's taxi takes offand we were heading for where we
were supposed to meet the buses.
I think we all had to meet upthere like midday and then meet
again at the end of the day,like kind of a check-in thing.
So we were heading, so we wereheading.
So we now are alone in this cabwith this guy and he doesn't

(46:04):
know what we're saying, where weneed to go.
And we eventually just have toget out of the cab, like we
don't know.
So and I think our maybe wedidn't know, I don't know what
happened, but anyway, we'retrying to find this place and we
just are lost.
We can't find it.
So we spent the whole afternoonbasically running through the

(46:25):
streets of new york city like wewere in chinatown.
We were everywhere just justrunning, just I guess we thought
eventually we would see our bus.
I don't know what we were doing, but you know, eventually it'll
turn up.
So then night came, startedcoming on and, mind you, now

(46:47):
it's still pay phones, there areno cell phones.
But we don't want to call ourparents because we both had very
strict parents, Right, and weknew we were going to get
murdered when we got home.
So we really wanted to figureit out on our own before we had
to involve anyone else, Because,you know, nobody's noticed.
It's dark and we haven't comeback yet.
So we don't even realize what'sgoing on in LA, because we're

(47:14):
18.
And it's nighttime.
We get down in the subway andthere's one person on the subway
and we were like wow, it'sreally not busy here.
And the one person there saysthat's because of the riots in
LA.
And here we're like, oh, Againwe're on the subway, but we

(47:37):
don't even know where we'regoing.
We're just literally.
So we pop up in Central Park.
And we come up out of theground at Central Park and
literal crackheads I mean skinny, scrawny white girls, just like
zombies are coming up to uslike asking for money and we're
like screaming and running offLike it was insane.

(48:03):
But, like the streets, there wasnobody out.
There weren't people out on thestreets?
There was nobody in the subway,like we didn't see any riots,
but we were definitely not in asafe situation.
So we decided the gig was up.
It's probably like eighto'clock at night by now.
So I remember when I called mymom she answered and I said hi,

(48:27):
mom, and she screamed shut up,when are you what?
And when I would go to answer,she was shut up.
I feel awful.
So I mean the bus had left us.
Our friends were home, like yeah, like everybody was home,
nobody knew.
And he calls and he's just asdead as me, so somehow I don't

(48:54):
even know how they got paid for,but we got train tickets out of
the city into Wilmington and wetook that and each my mom
picked me up and his dad pickedhim up and yeah, Bet, that went
well.
Yeah, we're not going to talkabout what happened after that,

(49:15):
but yeah, I actually was rightthere, that's scary.
Yeah, it is scary.
And it's crazy just how it'sjust nuts.
And it's funny because I lookat my kids.
You know they're adults now butyou still worry about them.
But as teenagers I'm like, ohmy gosh, I hope they're not in
this situation and this and that, and I'm like I survived New

(49:36):
York City In the 90s.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
And it's not like.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
New York City in the 90s was what New York City now
is.
It was converting because, likein the 50s it was the gangsters
, In the 70s it was the tittybars and the triple X things
everywhere and it was just likeit had not been dignified yet.
Yes, yeah, and yeah, it hadgotten away from that stuff,
kind of.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
And it had.
I mean I, because I went to NewYork City the first time and
only time I've ever been, in the90s, and I was like I was 18.
My friend, from Oregon.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
We should go sometime .
I love New York City Never mind.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, I'm not a fan, but it had such a reputation and
I know I mean just coming from.
First of all, we're coming fromdelaware slower delaware at
that, so it's like no crimehappens here at all, ever for
any reason I mean if somethinghappens, it's like shakes the
world.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, and new york had such the reputation of you
were going to get mugged all thetime and you were going to get
killed all the time and I thinkprobably part of what made me
think I'd be okay and I'd beable to figure this out is my
dad grew up in North Jersey andStaten Island and New York City

(51:00):
were his stomping ground Likethat's where he went to play.
So every summer we would go upto my grandma's in Jersey and
we'd stay for like a week, butone of the days would always be
a day trip up to New York City.
So every summer of my life Ihad been there and he liked you
know, some of the lesserdesirable places.
You know we had to go to hisfavorite pizza shop and that was

(51:22):
cool, like we went in there.
He was I don't know, I wasmaybe like 15 or 16.
So he would have been in hisforties and we walk in.
He hasn't been in this placesince he was a kid, right, and
he was a greaser.
He wore the white t-shirts anddrove the fancy convertibles.
I love your dad, I know.
And running over Georgie justthrows her arms around him like

(51:51):
she was so excited she hadn'tseen him in like 30 years.
Yeah, but I think that's.
I don't know, maybe that's whyI thought I'd be able to make my
way around philadelphia and thefew the times that I've gotten
so-called lost.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
I mean, philadelphia is not real hard to get unlost
from, but I just from hearingyou know my dad talking because
my dad worked at domino sugarand which we need to go to that
casino.
Really bad, okay, just becausethat's where my dad worked, okay
, um, doesn't anyway a terribleidea to let him work in a sugar

(52:36):
factory yeah, but notice, yousay we should go somewhere and
I'm like okay, okay um, so yeah,I'm much more familiar with,
with the ins and outs ofphiladelphia and that's why I
feel like maybe I feeluncomfortable in New York
because I feel like I knowPhiladelphia.

(52:57):
I drive through Philadelphia allthe time and especially after I
graduated we would go to Phillyfor freaking lunch.
I mean, be like you wantcheesesteaks today.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah, where do you want to go?

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Gyms on South Street.
Okay, so I think that's why Ibut it had such a reputation,
and I don't think many othercities really had that
reputation.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Yeah, I think it started with the gangsters it
started all that, and then thedrugs.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah the drugs.
It's much safer, I hear, nowthan it is.
Yes, I haven the drugs.
It's much safer, I hear, nowthan it is.
Yes, I haven't been, it'slovely.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
So critics of the LAPD earned some vindication in
1993 when officers Kuhn andPowell were sentenced to 30
months of peace for violatingKing's civil rights.
In April 1994, king was awarded$3.8 million in a civil lawsuit
against the city.
Although the LAPD demonstratedimprovements with

(53:55):
community-based programs, itresisted implementing most of
the recommendations of the 1991Christopher Commission.
It wasn't until the Rampartscandal of the late 1990s, which
exposed widespread corruptionwithin the LAPD anti-gang unit,
that serious change was enacted.

(54:15):
Through it all.
Rodney King was just a mantrying to find his way in the
world.
Some would see him as a hero ora martyr, while others would
maintain that he was a criminaland a villain.
But the police's infringementon King's rights and dignity
would become a lasting symbol ofthe reality of police brutality
.
King's assault and thesubsequent trials of the

(54:37):
officers would lay bare theracism and injustice that ran
through Los Angeles and itspolice department, becoming a
catalyst for demands of policeaccountability.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
I mean when you watch .
I know that it was fresh on theminds of people in Los Angeles
during the OJ trial.
I know that a lot of thingswere swayed or influenced during

(55:08):
that trial because really itwas the LAPD versus OJ Simpson.
I mean that's what it was,because it was Mark Furman and
you know.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
And he was the lesser evil in the jurors' eyes.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
It's there was.
I remember them when theybrought the verdict down.
I mean LA was bracing foranother riot.
I mean I remember that.
And you know, I think, lookingback on it now, some of the
documentaries and stuff I'veseen on, I mean I won't get into

(55:46):
whether or not OJ did it.
But, you don't write a bookthat says, if I did it, if you
didn't do it, but I think thatwas a big part of everyone's
minds at the time.
And it really was an indictmenton the LAPD versus OJ.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So not a lot has changed, but Idid put in here a little bit
about reform that has happenedsince then.
It can feel like nothing haschanged in the way we police the
police.
Many things haven't.
Juries acquit police, cops gettheir jobs back and brutality

(56:26):
happens again.
Some things have gotten worse,like police militarization, but
some things have gotten betteror are still moving towards
reform in the wake of aprominent brutality incident.
A history of these incidentsreveals that some major recent

(56:47):
police reforms got their startafter highly publicized episodes
of police violence.
But it was only after years ordecades and dogged, persistent
community building that someprogress started to manifest.
A videotape by a bystandercaptured five officers pummeling
Rodney King with batons morethan 50 times as he struggled on

(57:08):
the ground outside his car.
The recording immediatelysparked outrage, but anger
magnified when the officers whobeat King were acquitted by a
jury the following year.
The acquittal triggered threedays of violent riots during
which at least 53 people diedand created immense momentum for
reform.
The cops in that case wereultimately held accountable when

(57:29):
federal prosecutors took up thecase and secured convictions of
four officers, and by somemeasures, the LAPD was
transformed in the two decadesthat followed.
Los Angeles was the originalmilitarizer of police, even
before the federal governmentstarted handing out leftover or
used weapons and before theheight of the war on drugs.

(57:51):
The LAPD was the godfather ofthat kind of militaristic
response.
It is a very systematic problemin just about every community
throughout the United States.
Los Angeles was forced to scaleback in some ways after the
riots, partially as a result ofthe Christopher Commission

(58:11):
created in response to the Kingbeating to develop
recommendations for reform, butinitially few of the
commissioner's recommendationswere adopted by the city.
Christopher Commissionrecommendations lay a foundation
but weren't successful inbringing about reform.
One of the most significantreforms that did come out of the
commission was ending thepolicy of lifetime terms for

(58:32):
police chiefs.
The police chief who presidedduring that period and had
overseen an error of increasedmilitarization at the Los
Angeles Police Department, darylGates, was forced to resign and
therefore lifetime terms wereover.
That's good.
Yeah, lifetime terms are nevergood.

(58:53):
Never, I mean, I guess, for thepope.
But yeah, he doesn't count.
Yeah, exactly, um.
In the intervening years, thecity took advantage of its
prerogative.
It's my prerogative.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Bobby Brown, it's my prerogative.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
The city took advantage of its prerogative to
hire chiefs for five-year termsand then bring in some new in a
series of chiefs who institutedsome change but failed to alter
the culture.
That changed when Bill Brattonbecame chief more than 10 years
later, in 2002, and institutedwhat is known as community

(59:39):
policing.
Underlying this approach is theidea that police can rarely
solve public safety problemsalone and require the input of
various stakeholders to come upwith solutions that might be
resolved by social services orother measures.
Instead of heavy police hand,bratton was hired as a reformer

(01:00:00):
chief after a series ofincidents of corruption emerged,
known as the Rampart scandal.
When Bratton arrived, the stagewas set for real change because
of a few other interveningdevelopments.
Five years after King's death,the city finally instituted a
recommendation to create anindependent inspector general to

(01:00:22):
review the department.
In 1994, congress passedprovisions in the Crime Control
Act meant to address policemisconduct in a more systematic
way.
One provision gave theDepartment of Justice the power
to bring civil suits againstlocal police departments that
exhibited a pattern and practiceof excessive force and other

(01:00:44):
constitutional violations, andthe department used that power
to enter into a settlement knownas a consent decree with Los
Angeles.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
As I'm listening, I am listening, I have to wonder
why is LA like the worst, hmm,Hmm, that it happens?

(01:01:33):
I understand that you know newyork cops are probably not
innocent of anything, um, butyou have to wonder, like why is
was the lapd allowed to runrampant like that and get away
with it?
And and you hear, and then youhear about all the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
You know all of this and but you don't really hear
that I wonder if it had to dowith politics, because LA is a
very rich and a very poor.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
I imagine that too.
I also imagine, I think thatthey have a bigger gang problem.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
I mean New York was run by the mafia.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
But down there they have Mexican gangs that are
coming up.
There's a lot of different.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
yeah, a lot of different gangs and maybe that I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I think a lot of drugs come through that way too,
because it is close to theborder.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Oh yeah, that makes sense.
Hmm, it'd be worth researchingWell, and drugs probably has a
lot to do with it, because Idon't think the mafia really.
They played a little in drugsbut I don't think they were
really.
That wasn't their thing.
Dealing drugs wasn't reallytheir thing, and I think I'm
pretty sure gangs eradicated themafia in New York.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Yeah, drive-bys.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
So I guess that's yeah.
I guess that's why it justalways seems that Los Angeles
was so much worse with that.
They just got away witheverything and I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
I don't know if that's just my own thinking or
yeah, and it's unfortunatebecause the corruption just runs
deep anywhere.
Yes, and it's hard because agood cop coming in isn't going
to want to be in thatenvironment and you know the one
person versus everybody else.

(01:03:14):
So they move on to somethingelse.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
And it's kind of like you know they can say they're
diversifying and they're hiringin more you know ethnicities and
stuff.
But I mean also just it takesyou to nazi germany, where
they're they were using somejews to out other jews and it
was a survival situation, likethey had to do it.
So you know, if you're a blackcop in la, are you really gonna.

(01:03:45):
What are your choices?

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
there.
You know exactly, you can'tnobody is gonna care.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
First of all, if you're saying, hey, you know
there's, this is happening andyou're going to get just brushed
off and right, I mean it's justyeah for sure um, so this
provision is perhaps among themost far reaching remedies for
holding entire police managementstructures accountable.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Typically, justice Department investigations that
find constitutional violationsresult in agreements, known as
consent decrees, that avertlitigation by agreeing to
federal monitoring and reforms.
Common reforms include changesto police training, stronger
mechanisms for complaintsagainst officers and improved
supervision.
A Vera Institute study of thefirst consent decree in

(01:04:40):
Pittsburgh, pennsylvania, foundthat use of force incidents
declined after the consentdecree ended and that the city
largely succeeded in meeting DOJgoals, but that citizens still
perceive police as sometimesusing excessive force,
particularly against minority.
It was in executing his city'sconsent decree that Bratton

(01:05:01):
transformed the LAPD.
It is like night and day.
Jeff Schlanger, who was hiredto monitor the LAPD in 2001,
told NBC News, as in Ferguson,which was another incident, what
was most lost after the LosAngeles riots is what is known

(01:05:26):
as police legitimacy communitytrust in the police.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
That underlies all of their work, brett and I mean
know that there was a lot ofcommunity trust at any point in
the police.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Yeah, honestly Not, even now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Yeah exactly, but the difference is is that I can
have words with the policeofficer that pulls me over and
for no fucking reason, at sixo'clock in the morning on my way
to work, or when I'm in my jeepand he wants to give me a hard
time about the tires stickingover.
I can sass him and did so, Ijust.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
I think well, that's another thing.
Going back to um, when we weretalking about um Can sass him
and did so.
I just I think Well that'sanother thing, going back to
when we were talking aboutserial killers and prostitutes.
I mean, these women are gettingraped, yes, and they're going
to the police.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
And the police are just like yeah, yeah, so like
yeah, yeah, so like it's it justgoes back to you know, your
perspective on things and whatyou know and what you've been
treated, how you've been, howyour life has unfolded and what

(01:06:46):
you've been treated to.
And the whole system is reallybuilt to keep poor people poor.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
And the problem just continues to snowball.
Because that's the whole pointof this.
I mean why other countriesdon't use credit reports and why
is that?
You can't find a place to liveif you don't have a good credit
report and you can't.
And then if you have bad credit, then your car insurance is

(01:07:14):
higher and you have to pay morein rent.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
And you're the ones who can't afford it, exactly
Because you know car loans andeverything.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
everything is way more expensive and you're never
going to get out of the hole.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
No, let's see when was I.
Bratton instituted an error ofcommunity era.
I feel like I'm saying error andit's I think that's just sussex
county I know of communicationand respect, interaction between
individuals and police,creating an apartment that

(01:07:47):
reflected the community andbuilding relationships with
community leaders.
He even demonstrated someinclination for holding officers
accountable.
After a violent police responsein 2007, immigration rallies in
MacArthur Park, brattonannounced immediate
investigations and severalofficers were eventually demoted

(01:08:08):
or fired, but many thingsremained unresolved.
For one thing, the mechanismsfor policing the police didn't
improve much.
A Human Rights Watch reportnoted that at-risk LAPD officers
, who frequently use significantforce, continue to act with
impunity, and officers were notfrequently punished for

(01:08:30):
misbehavior, either internallyor by the courts.
For another, some tacticsembraced by Bratton have created
their own set of hostilitieswith minority communities as a
result of policies that seetargeting low-level offenses in
high-crime areas as key tothwarting larger crime.

(01:08:52):
When this policy is notimplemented with consistent
rigor, these police stops canalso lead to unnecessary police
violence and even death.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
And that just goes to show you the ridiculousness of
To target lower crimes.
Yeah, that seems smart, thatjust seems like that's the
answer to go after shoplifters,you know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Yeah, or somebody smoking a joint yeah, people
spending their life in jail Oversomething that is now legal in
the majority of the states.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
They first of all should let all of those people
out, because this is justridiculous.
It is.
And anybody who says that weed,I'm going to, where is my
soapbox?
So here it's coming.
Anybody that says weed is agateway drug is extremely not
misinformed.
But I don't care.
Ignorant, ignorant, ignorant,because we all know that, first

(01:09:50):
of of all, alcohol is yourgateway drug, because, I'm sorry
, but if you're a gen x, you hadbeer or whiskey or something
before, before the age of 10.
You had yeah you had some formof alcohol, oh yeah, and then it
was.
Then you were told you can'thave it, and then it builds up,

(01:10:11):
and it builds up.
So every single person drinksbefore weed or any of that.
So the whole weed thing is justbullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Yeah, yeah.
That and the fact that alcoholis legal and weed is not is
insane.
Like nobody ever got in a barfight because they smoked too
much weed.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
I'm not trying to tattletale on my parents again,
but I was raised by you, know,and it's just.
It's my dad.
Nobody, nobody works harderthan my dad.
That is a fact.
Nobody is more active than theman is pushing 75 years old and

(01:10:56):
is going skiing this weekend Idon't know where I think Vermont
he is.
No one is more active than myfather, literally there is no
one more active than my dad andI just is more active than my
father.
Like literally, there is no onemore active than my dad and I
don't, I just well.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
The only thing that was ever in any danger when your
dad was high was m&ms andpotato chips.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
He likes his potato chips and m&ms.
Yep, yeah, I just it's justthat whole thing.
Just yeah, the weed thing justbugs the shit out of me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
I hate it when people say it's a gateway drug.
It's not, it's not, no.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
So yeah, so sorry for the heavy topic, but I thought
it was something that wasimportant.
Plus, today is Dr Martin LutherKing's birthday.
We are recording on Wednesdaythis week Heather's messing up
the schedule again, I know, butum, but it's all good.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
So I'm gonna mess it up next week too, because I'm
off monday oh, you're comingmonday.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
I was hoping you were oh, I can.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
I wasn't going to, but I can't come tuesday.
Oh, I'm off monday.
Maybe I will come monday.
Yeah, I don't know why we'rehaving this discussion.
We can do that later.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
We digress so yeah, sorry for the heavy topic, but I
hope that you got something outof the information.
It was very good, good job.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
I learned some stuff, yeah, and he deserves to still
be talked about, so yes, Don'twant us to forget about it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
I do want to take a second Also In in the LA fires
right now.
It's very sad.
It is very sad, and not to do acomplete one, 80.
Cause, you know, I think a lotof people are seeing it being
handled wrong and are blaming alot of people for the fact that

(01:12:55):
planes didn't go up in 100 milean hour winds um, it wasn't to
save a fish and uh, also, saltwater is very corrosive to the
things that they use to dumpwater and that's why they don't
like to use it, but they areusing it.
Anyway, also, you know, I knowit's pretty popular and not feel

(01:13:17):
bad for celebrities, becausethey are celebrities and have a
lot of money and can replace allthe things.
But I think we all know thatthere are things in these homes
that you cannot replace.
Even if you're a celebrity,there are photos of when you
were a child or you knowanything in your own home that
is sentimental to you that youcannot replace.

(01:13:38):
They also they're people too,and just because they have the
money to be able to rebuild, youknow, doesn't mean that it's
not devastating and emotionalfor them.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
Yeah, the trauma for this is just unimaginable.
I mean, it's not just that youlost your house, you lost your
whole entire community, exactly.
The stores, you shop at therestaurants, you eat at the
schools, your kids go to thechurch, you attend your
neighbors everything, you'velost everything.
And there are children there,there are teenagers there,

(01:14:14):
there's, you know your pets.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Everything like everything.
It's just gone.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Yeah, it's, it's absolutely horrifying and I
can't even imagine and you'reright, yes, they can afford to
replace it, but the mental tollthat this is taking on anybody
anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
I mean anybody, mean anybody.
Yeah, you can.
They can put themselves up inhotels and and or they have you
know four other houses elsewhereokay, but you know, think about
if you have any of anythingelse like it.
It's, it's your stuff, it'syour, it's your home exactly you
know, I think probably a lot ofthese people, people that are

(01:14:49):
losing their stuff are based inLA, so that is it's not just a
condo somewhere where they have.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Right, the top tier celebrities have multiple homes,
right, but most of these peoplethat are.
They just live there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
It's just very and it's very sad to see it.
And I know that living anywherehas its.
You know, living here we couldget hit by a hurricane at any
point.
It's, I mean, it's a fact oflife.
I know California has to dealwith fires all the time and then
they, you know earthquakes andall that.

(01:15:24):
It's just.
It's just very, it's.
It's very sad to see it, is I?

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
heard on NPR yesterday that one third of
malibu is gone, gone, just gone,and there's iconic hotels and
the history, and that's anotherthing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
It's the history you don't, you know.
Normally you just don't give ashit about la.
I mean, I'm sure some peoplethat live in california give a
shit about la, but I think astypically as East coasters.
we just don't really think aboutour like it's New York city I
mean, like you, when you thinkabout LA probably doesn't come
into mind that much, you thinkmore of New York.
But if you think about like thehistory of film, I mean how

(01:16:05):
much of that history is now gonethat these celebrities did have
in their homes that they boughtor that they took with them off
of sets or or there was aactual in use elementary school,
but there were so many tv showsand movies that were filmed at
that school you know, and youhave to think it's okay.

(01:16:25):
Sure, it's probably frivolous toto be worried about movie sets
and stuff, but this is all partof our history.
You know american history.
We don't have a whole lot tocling on to exactly, you know,
because it comes from everywhereelse, but la was, you know.
It's just, it's unfortunate andit's gut-wrenching to watch

(01:16:45):
it's so hard to watch, so yeah,yeah, Sorry LA.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
Sorry, we're thinking of you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so we hopethat you all are really good and
depressed now.
Yeah, let's really bring itdown we just really, really
wanted to nail this one with agood ending.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
So now we're going to go.
She's going to break dryJanuary Because I'm so depressed
now Anyway thanks for listening, thanks for being brought down.
Go listen to something moreupbeat after this.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
Morrissey or something, if you liked, being
depressed like share rate reviewthat helps us out and moves us
up.
You can find us everywhere youlisten to podcasts, you can
follow us on all the socials atlike whatever pod we were on

(01:17:45):
TikTok and the TikTok ban, Ithink, is going to happen.
So we got to figure somethingelse out.
And what the hell am I going todo with my life?
Because that's all I do iswatch the tickety-tock.
I'm so lost Anyway.
So you can send us an email andtell us all about how sad you
are now at like whatever pod atGmail, or don't Like whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
Whatever, bye.
Bye gmail, or don't likewhatever, whatever bye.