Sounds Gay, We're In

The long, hard-fought road to LGBTQ+ equality stretches back centuries, but few generations have witnessed the seismic shifts that Gen X has. From criminalizing same-sex relationships to nationwide marriage equality, our generation watched society's attitudes transform dramatically during our lifetime.

Many argue that gayness is some new "trend," but the facts tell a different story. With over 1,500 animal species exhibiting same-sex behavior in nature, from penguin pair-bonding to elephant male-to-male relationships, the evidence is overwhelming - this is natural and has always existed. Ancient human civilizations openly celebrated same-sex relationships, with early forms of same-sex marriage ceremonies documented as far back as the 3rd century.

We walk through the painful timeline of LGBTQ+ persecution in America - from the "Lavender Scare" that purged thousands from government positions to the designation of homosexuality as a mental illness. The courage of early activists who formed organizations when being openly gay meant risking everything paved the way for watershed moments like Stonewall in 1969 and the first Pride parades that followed.

For Gen X, the AIDS crisis became a defining moment. Watching a deadly disease ravage a community while society either ignored or stigmatized the victims changed many of us forever. When beloved public figures like Rock Hudson and Magic Johnson faced their diagnoses, AIDS couldn't be ignored anymore. Through grassroots activism and sheer determination, the LGBTQ+ community demanded recognition, respect, and rights.

The victories have been hard-won and surprisingly recent. It wasn't until 2003 that sodomy laws were struck down, and only in 2015 did the Supreme Court make marriage equality the law of the land - by a narrow 5-4 margin. These rights that many now take for granted hang by threads that some are actively trying to cut.

As longtime allies who saw our LGBTQ+ friends struggle and triumph, we ask the fundamental question: How does someone else's identity affect your life? The simplest truth is that it doesn't. So why do we care who others love?

Join us for a heartfelt, sometimes funny, sometimes angry reflection on how far we've come and the work still ahead. Check us out on social media @likewhateverpod and share your thoughts with us at [e-mail].

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Two best friends.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
We're talking the past, from mistakes to arcades.
We're having a blast Teenagedreams, neon screens, it was all
rad and no one knew me.
Like you know, it's likewhatever.
Together forever, we're neverthe best ever Laughing and
sharing our stories.
Clever, we'll take you back.

(00:25):
It's like whatever.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Welcome to Like Whatever, a podcast for, by and
about Gen X.
I'm Nicole and this is my BFF,Heather.
Hey, so how was your week?
It was good.
Yeah, it's hot.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Mine wasn't bad, it is it's hot.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
mine wasn't bad, it is it's hot yeah, but my pool is
clear, yeah, and I can't wait.
Oh, I forgot to look, yeah it'sprobably cold, though I don't
think so I think it probably is.
Maybe I'm getting in ittomorrow night, my daughter and
son-in-law are coming over andit's going to get christened
tomorrow night.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh, nice, Nice, nice nice.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
But it was hot today and it's going to be like 90
tomorrow.
That's true, so it should bewarmed up by then.
That's true, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
This is a big week in Gen X-ness.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Jaws Ah.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
It's the anniversary of Jaws.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm 50 years, 50 years.
I heard on NPR this week thatthey are doing a big long
weekend celebration up in Amityfor it and it sounded so cool.
But they're going to have it'sat Martha's Vineyard where they
filmed it, and they're going tohave uh, it's at martha's
vineyard where they um filmed it, and they're going to have

(01:47):
special events and guestspeakers and just activities for
everybody, which you know,they've got to be doing a
showing of it in the water Ihave no doubt they do one in
dewey and I want to go.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
So fucking bad.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, come on and that's in the ocean.
Yeah, like I thought aboutdoing it out here in my pool and
that would be scary enough inthe ocean oh my god, seaweed
would hit my leg and I wouldjust die I do that anyway I know
I haven't been in the ocean ina very long time, since I was a
kid probably since my kids werekids, would have been for me.

(02:24):
But yeah I, I just go out thereto cool off now.
Yeah, I step to get to like myknees and splash off sandy.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
There's sand everywhere and you get sand and
it's salty and you get salt allover you and you get too tan at
work.
I know, do you notice how tan Iam already?
It still freaks me out.
I'm never gonna get used to it,I know I hate it.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Your porcelain skin is rude.
I know you should see the post.
I should see the post I.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
I went so long with my lovely porcelain skin oh, you
know what else I?
Got this week I got new umlotion to put on my tattoos.
It's supposed to revitalizethem, them.
I just started using ityesterday, so you won't notice
the difference.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, and you've been wearing long sleeves up until
now too, so I haven't reallyseen them, that's true.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know, when I put this shirt on, I'm sporting a
new situation here Mesh and croptop.
There's crop top underneath Inyour skulls.
Yes, um, anyway, I forgot that.
I totally have the horrible 90scliche tattoo the tribal, the

(03:35):
tribal son I have, well, I have,the the um celtic uh tree of
life yes, do, and it's in thesame spot when you watch all
those like well, I watch TikToksyou know but all that stuff and
they're like, oh, what's themost 90s thing?
And they're like tribal and I'mlike, yeah, I have.

(03:58):
But you know how everybodyalways says oh, you'll regret
all your tattoos, blah, blah,blah.
First of all, I don't evennotice them anymore me neither I
forget, I have I know all thetime.
So I don't know who ever came upwith that idea.
It's obviously somebody withouttattoos, yeah, um, but also
everybody's like I don't knowhow you could just go get a
tattoo without it meaninganything.

(04:19):
Okay, well, that that means Iwas alive in the 90s and I'm
sure I went with.
You know this whole sleeve here, this part is all like very
good, I used to hang out in thattattoo shop.
That's why I have so manybecause, they were like hey, let
me.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
You lured me in there .
Yeah, I got a couple done there.
Yeah, I love that place.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
She comes up up.
She just did.
Oh, my delaware tattoo was Ithink the last one she gave me
when she was up here okay, likemaybe two years ago, yeah, yeah,
she comes back every now andthen tattoo shops have come a
long way yeah the first one Iwent to was a little shack.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, that was run by a neo-nazi nice I mean he
literally the walls.
It was a tiny, tiny place andthe walls and ceiling and floor
and everything was decorated innazi swastikas, like, but I was
like 19 you know, I'm like, butand it was the only place around

(05:23):
here to get tattoos.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
There wasn't anywhere else to go um I went to a place
called dirty larry's yeah, Iremember dirty larry.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
I think dirty larry worked at um, this place that I
went to um, but he uh, I garylittle gary, that was who did
mine and um, I don't, I can'tremember if he did one of mine
or if it was george or um, youhad a crush on george.

(05:51):
I had a crush on the other onewith the long hair.
What was his name?
I don't remember.
I don't either, but he when hetattooed the top of my foot, as
painful as it was, I'm justlooking, I'm like you're so cute
george is in ohio now.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, I think he, and I think he works for.
I think peggy told me he worksfor um, uh, I don't, I don't
know that he tattoos anymore,but he works for like they sell
ink maybe oh, okay, yeah I thinkhe works for a company that
makes tattoo equipment oh Ithink that's what she said.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
I could be totally wrong.
I'd imagine tattooing would behard on your hands and your back
and all that yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
She was on a podcast recently.
Yeah, I'll have to look it up.
Yeah, I'll get back to youbecause it was good.
I listened to it.
It's about female tattooers.
She's one of the first.
Yeah, it's about femaletattooers.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
She's one of the first.
Yeah, so if we ever figure outhow to do guests, maybe we can.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
And she can help us reminisce about that.
I don't even know if I want herto reminisce about me in the
90s.
I was there a lot I spent a lotof time in that tattoo shop,
but I got a lot of nice tattoosfor it Very cheap.
Also, today is a sad day.
Brian Wilson.

(07:11):
Just like Brian Wilson did, Iwas a big Beach Boys fan.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
I was too.
I had their albums and I couldstill sing every word to every
song.
I loved them and I could stillsing every word to every song.
I loved them.
It's funny because they this ispart of the weirdness about
growing old You're like BrianWilson is still alive, not that
I didn't know that he hadn'tdied, but it just he was an

(07:36):
adult and we were kids.
And so now you're like, oh well, we're not that much younger
than him.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, I saw them.
I saw the Beach Boys a coupleof times in Ocean City.
They used to play 4th of Julyevery year.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
So that is so cool.
Yeah, I wonder what drew themto Ocean City on the 4th of July
, like of all the beaches, Idon't know, because you'd think
it'd be like the Keys, yeah.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, there's be like the keys?
Yeah, um, I don't know.
Yeah, there's a place calledkokomo.
Um, why they don't go there.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know what it was,but the lady who used to cut my
hair used to cut.
When they the first time theycame into ocean city, she cut
their hair.
I guess it was like anemergency situation.
I'm not really sure but she cuttheir hair.
So then every time they cameback to ocean city they called
her wow, yeah, because she wasawesome, she was the best at

(08:26):
doing hair.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
She was really expensive so I couldn't really
afford her, but yeah, she wasamazing and she loved me because
you would say do whatever dowhatever, I don't give a shit
and I remember that becauseshe'd be like are you sure I
went, you're like whatever,whatever, I don't care, shave it
off for all.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I give a shit exactly .
Uh, I don't think that was.
I think that was it, though Imean there's a lot of other shit
going on that we're just gonnapretend like is not going on.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, because it's just yeah, yeah, just as far.
I do want to say, though, my myheart's with LA.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
I mean that's just a horrible situation all the way
around.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, and completely illegal.
Yeah, we are allowed to protestin this country still.
As of right this minute, as ofright this minute, yes, we are,
although, do you want to knowwhat else I heard on NPR today
that they want to take away, soI work our right to vote.
I mean yeah, that's coming um.

(09:30):
So I work um with school-agekids and there's this thing, if
you haven't heard of it, calledum um makiti vento, and that's
if a kid is um homeless they are.
There is certain funding tohelp them, to make sure that

(09:51):
they have what they need Um andat the schools, take it very
seriously because you know kidskids are hard and they don't
won't always tell you things andum, sometimes I'll get a good
rapport with kids and they'lllet it slip that they've been in
a shelter for two months withtheir mom or they've been living
in a hotel for a year, thingslike that, and I would always

(10:13):
report it to staff to make surethat they were aware.
And if they weren't aware, theywould always jump right on it
to make sure these kids weregetting the services that they
need and all that they want.
To cut it?
Of course they do.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, it's devastating because it's forced
birthing and not pro-life right.
So no one gives a fuck about ababy once it's actually here,
they just want to worry aboutwhat you're fucking doing with
your uterus.
So yeah, let's not mix words.
This whole episode I'm gonna weshould probably give you the

(10:49):
the warning right out the gateum, first of all, if you're an
ignorant asshole, I don't evenknow what you're doing here to
begin with, right?
I mean, we made it pretty clearthat, but so, anyway, this whole
episode is probably going tohurt your feelings a little bit.
Um, I already came up with thetitle.
If you didn't read the titleand you couldn't figure it out.
That's on you.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
And this is a topic we are both very passionate
about.
Very, and we don't take thesethings lightly.
No, although Heather did say Idon't know how we're going to
make jokes about this, and wecan pretty much make a joke out
of anything.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, did say, I don't know how we're going to
make jokes about this, and wecan pretty much make a joke out
of anything.
So, yeah, yeah, but we won't,we won't offend.
But before we jump intoanything, real quick oh yeah,
find us.
Wherever you listen to podcastat, like whatever pod.
Um, we are on all the socials.
Please follow us.
Um, I've been working on thesocials trying to post some gen
x type articles.
I posted a good one today aboutum, why we really are awesome

(11:50):
yeah and uh how much we'vecontributed to society, even
though we are consideredforgotten um.
I mean the internet I mean yeahfor one of many um, but yeah, so
yeah, check us out.
And if you would like to sendus an email and tell us how
offended you are by this episode, so that Damn it.

(12:11):
You took my line.
We will put your name on blaston social media and let
everybody know.
So yeah, another, anotherwarning to log out now if, if
you're not cool with this butanyway, it's going to be a great
episode check us out like ratereview, please, please, please
that's it.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
I did want to say one more thing too.
Did you read the article abouthow, um, apparently gen x is the
worst grandparents?

Speaker 1 (12:36):
I saw that article, but I didn't read it yeah why is
that?

Speaker 2 (12:40):
because because they don't babysit their
grandchildren as much as, andthe reason stated was because we
have to take care of our agingparents.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
I have been seeing things about that that we are
the sandwich generation.
We call it.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
And so, and I think a lot of the I don't have kids,
obviously, so I don't know howto speak to it.
I think that part of theproblem is and it's not, you're
different, because I know howyou raised your kids but I think
a lot of the helicoptering thathappened as a result of our,

(13:22):
the way we were raised yes, andI have been reading about that
as well, that we were veryoverprotective as a generation
because nobody was paying anyattention to us yeah, so then I
think what happened was is whenthose kids grew up and had been
helicoptered and now have to goout and have their own children
in their own lives, and gen xwas like well, we had to do it

(13:44):
on our own, fuck you.
But they didn't actually preparethem for this no, because they
helicoptered them.
Yes so I think you know whetheror not you're a horrible
grandparent.
I don't know, because I hadhorrible grandparents.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
So I want to give a quick shout out to to my
daughter and my son-in-law.
They are on an ivF journey andthey got good news yesterday.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Um, still not pregnant, but things are moving
along and you are like my mom,who just had children to have
grandchildren.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yes, so yes yeah, yes , she married young and I was
like do it.
A year before she was gettingmarried, she was like we're
gonna go off birth control andtry to get pregnant.
I don't care if I'm pregnantwhen I get married.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Okay, I'm down with that.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
And I don't have to worry about her expecting me to
raise her kids.
She is going to be like I don'twant to give it up.
She's worked very hard for this, but, yeah, I'm very excited
for them.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
So everybody cross your fingers.
Yeah, cross your fingers.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Send all your positive vibes, thoughts and
prayers, if you are into that.
No, I'd rather not have thethoughts and prayers, all right,
well then, I won't think aboutit.
I do accept prayers from people, but very specific people.
Right, they have to be peoplethat mean it, right, yeah, yeah,
but yeah, okay, okay, I I don'tknow why I felt like I need to
say that, but here we go.
This episode.

(15:05):
They're all like what is thisepisode about?
They have done this big buildup.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
I mean, you read the title, you can't figure it out.
I don't know what to tell you.
So we're going to fuck aroundand find out about the gay
rights.
Yay, the gay rights.
So I got my stuff from pbsorgorg, lgbtqhistoryorg there was like
a million different um websitesthat I did from so mostly I'm

(15:33):
just gonna do like a timeline ofwhat happened when and blah,
blah, blah, and then we can justtalk about that.
But talk about all the gays welove.
Yes, uh, straight out the top.
I want to say that a I feellike mostly my life was probably
saved in the 90s by the gaycommunity I would agree with

(15:54):
that because they took me in.
I mean not like I was, Ishouldn't.
I had a very good parent.
They picked her up off of theoff of the side of the road, my
sad ass off the side of the road, my sad ass off the side of the
road, and they said come withus.
I never felt like I fit inanywhere until I've said it
before.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
So yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
But let's just say that and I want to start it with
.
You know a lot of people say oh, this whole transgender gay
business is just a part of it isnew.
Many animals sometimes engagein same-sex sexual behaviors.
These behaviors can includesame-sex courtships, copulary

(16:36):
behavior and long-term pairbonding between same-sex
partners.
Over 1500 species of animalshave shown some degree of
same-sex sexual behavior,ranging from insects and spiders
to frogs, fish and birds, withover 50 species of non-human
primates commonly showing thesebehaviors.
Some examples of animals thatpractice same-sex couplings

(16:57):
include bears, gorillas,flamingos, owls, salmon pigeons,
lions and many others salmonpigeons, lions and many others.
Uh, so just in case any of youdidn't realize that this is not
a uniquely human thing.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
This is not made up, it's not new, and this reminds
me that I just said today humansare horrible species, yes, but
being gay and all the rest ofthem are not.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
It's not bad because all the animals do it.
It is not an unnatural thing.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Other animals don't murder for no reason.
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
They rape Dolphins.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Well, yeah, and what is?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
it.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Male hippopotamuses will kill baby hippopotamuses
too.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
I think most animals will kill the babies of another,
of the rival, but, likedolphins, will just fucking fuck
you up for no reason yeah, andthey're close to him to to
people yeah, so that would makesense um, as far as I would lost
my place.
Oh so spotted hyenas are bornwith female-like genitalia and

(18:02):
raised as females until theyreach sexual maturity.
Then they go either way.
Black-headed gulls havesame-sex pair bonding and
parenting.
Japanese macaques have genderrole reversals.

(18:24):
Chickens have a male-to-femalesex reversal due to genetic
mutations.
Sometimes they grow up as boys,sometimes they don't.
Deer have hermaphroditicindividuals with both male and
female reproductive organs.
Lizards, especially thewhiptail lizards, have the
ability to change sex from maleto female or vice versa.
Bonobos have same-sex behaviorand non-binary gender expression

(18:49):
.
Penguins have same-sex pairbonding and parenting.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Penguins are big-time gays.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
There's a lot of gayness in the penguin community
.
I mean look how fancy they are,they are, they are.
How can you walk around?

Speaker 2 (18:59):
like that.
I don't know why anybody wasfabulous.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Especially the emperor ones are fucking
fabulous.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Elephants have same sex, sexual behavior and
male-to-male bonding.
I don't think I knew that aboutelephants.
I learned a lot about elephants.
I went down a, I guess, arabbit elephant sex sounds
really intense.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Well, elephant sex of any kind sounds intense.
It does.
Yeah, I try not to think aboutelephants.
There's a lot of body there.
There is A lot.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Baboons have male to female sex reversal due to
adrenal glands.
Rats have same sex sexualbehavior and male to male
bonding.
Sheep have male to female sexreversal due to genetic
mutations.
Dolphins have same sex sexualbehavior and male to male
bonding.
I didn't know that aboutdolphins yeah, they're they're

(19:51):
hella gay too.
Yeah, bearded dragons go maleto female sex reversal due to
environmental factors.
They just.
If it's too hot, they justswitch yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
So what's the difference between surgery or?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
your body just automatically doing it and and
yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Or like being born one sex and thinking you're
feeling like you're another,like I don't know okay, I know
I'm getting ahead of myself.
This, this episode, is going tomake me very angry.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yes, it is I know cuttlefish have the ability to
change gender and coloration forcourtship displays.
Blackfin gobies have theability to change gender in
response to population dynamics.
Frogs have the ability tochange sex in response to
environmental factors.
That's what happened injurassic park.
If you all remember that theygave them only female dna, but

(20:40):
it was frog dna, and then theychanged sex and then they they
had babies.
Life finds a way.
Marsh Harrier.
Male to female sex reversal.
Due to hormone imbalances, seasnails can switch from male to
female.
Sea bass can switch gender, soobviously it's not.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I think earthworms are also Hermaphroditic.
Yes, but yeah, like can't theylike impregnate themselves, or
something crazy.
And seahorses.
The men get pregnant.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
The men carry the babies.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
It's so crazy of an idea.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
I know, or it's made up Suddenly.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
now everybody shut the sit the fuck down, yeah.
Suddenly, now everybody Shutthe fuck.
Sit the fuck down, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Suddenly now We'll get to that, yeah, suddenly.
So, Hold on, hold on.
I want to stop for a second.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Okay, there we go, we're done.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
That was that.
So that's all the animals?
Well, it's not all the animals,but I mean, i're just going to
show you that it is not anunnatural yeah, and that was a
long list yes, and I'm sure, ofall the species in the world.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
There are a lot more, yeah um.
So next, I think swans aresuper gay too maybe they're very
fancy too.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
They are.
So, yeah, it probably makessense.
Yeah, um, it's, we're going togo through some terms.
Sense, yeah, um, it's, we'regoing to go through some terms.
It's important to note thatthere existed lesbian, gay,
bisexual and transgenderindividuals or we're moving back
to people now individuals,communities and relationships.
Long before these terms becamecommonplace, gay and lesbian

(22:18):
relationships existed in ancientrome and greece community,
greek communities and are shownin a variety of art from that
time.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Oh, yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that because
I was like people think it'snew, because people finally feel
somewhat safe to be themselvesas where before you'd be stoned
and, yes, you know, murdered ifyou were gay, but it really did.
I mean it was, yes, theyweren't hiding it back then they
had bath houses and I mean theydidn't, they didn't care no,

(22:49):
yeah, god, people are so dumb.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
I know so the term lesbian was first used by
william king in his books in1732.
His book the Toast, publishedin England, which meant women
who loved women.
Homosexual was first used in1869 by Hungarian journalist
Karl Maria Kurthany.

(23:12):
Bisexual was.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Hold on, I can't believe homosexual has only been
around since 1869.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
yeah, like there's heterosexual so did that not
come about until homosexual yeahI don't know.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
they just assumed everybody was straight back then
, I guess, and they didn't needa word for it.
No, you, you're just a person,you're just straight.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Bisexual 1894.
In the pamphlet PsychopathiaSexualis was translated from
German One of the first timesthe term bisexual is used.
In 1967, sexual Freedom Leagueformed in San Francisco in
support of bisexual people.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
And I remember like learning about bisexuality in
like high school.
I want to say I knew about thatbefore I really understood
being gay and I was so confusedby it because I'm straight, I
mean I've always been straightand I just didn't know.
And it always confused me, likehow can you like girls and boys
?
Like it just didn't make senseto me.
But I feel like that was myfirst real exposure.

(24:20):
I think I knew of people thatwere bisexual probably girls,
because I think they were alittle more comfortable to
discuss that before I reallyknew like I had a boyfriend in
high school.
That is gay as gay can be nowand I'm so happy for him, but
yeah, we used to make out andstuff, and now I feel bad for
him.
I'm like, oh, I was the onethat he was trying to be

(24:41):
straight, trying to prove to theworld.
I am not the one.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
I'm glad I could be there for him, though, and I can
tell you like if being gay wasa choice, I think that majority
of women would choose to be gayjust to not have to deal with
men although I keep hearing moreand more and maybe one day
we'll get there women marry eachother all the time, now,
platonically yes that's our planyes.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
so when the post office shuts down, yeah, we'll
have to get divorced from ourhusband so I can marry you and
you can have benefits.
Yep, I love it.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Okay, well, and that's the thing, like
everybody's always like, oh,especially people who are
assholes that they've longturned this off now.
So we can talk about them allwe want.
They're always like oh, withoutmen, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
I don't know if y'all have this news flash of cloning
but you are absolutely notneeded anymore.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
We keep you around because we want you around, but
you are not needed anymore.
I mean, I don't know why, but Idon't either, but I mean
honestly.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
I know it's funny.
This reminds me of aconversation I had with my
husband the other night becausehe was listening to some podcast
and he's on a new podcastjourney, so I've had to hear a
lot.
But he was like I heard thisthing today and it makes a lot
of sense.
They say by like 2060, therewon't be any need to like,
everybody will get artificiallyinseminated, basically because

(26:12):
then you can know if it'shealthy, what gender it is, blah
, blah, blah.
And I was like that makes sense.
But having babies the naturalway ain't going nowhere, because
people are still going to havekids, they're still going to
have sex, they're still going toget pregnant and that will
still probably be something forpeople who can afford it.
Maybe it'll be easier.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Designer babies.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
More easily accessible.
And he was like, yeah, I wouldlove to do that, that's what I
would have done if I would havehad kids.
And I was like I don't think Iwould have wanted to do that.
And he's like, really.
And I'm like, no, I don't know,like I don't know.
Obviously it's hypothetical,but for him his point was and
this makes a lot of sense hismom had huntington's disease, um

(26:56):
, which is genetic, and you havea 50 chance of getting it, um,
if your parent has it.
So definitely like, in thatcase, if you could ensure that
you're not going to pass it onright, because that's why my
husband never had kids, um, well, that many other reasons.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
but he long ago stopped listening also.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, he doesn't listen ever, but yeah, but he
made the conscious decision tonot have a family because he
didn't want to be tested, whichI was on board with.
I wouldn't want to.
There are pluses and minuses toit, but I feel like finding out

(27:34):
that you have something likethat is the worst scenario as to
where, hoping you don't have itRight.
I mean, obviously, if you getthat you don't have it, that's
great, but you have a 50-50 shot, so I was always in support of
that and because of that, hechose not to reproduce.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
There you have it.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, I'm just saying , if men, men didn't exist, you
could just clone, I almost feellike the female body would
figure out how to make babieswithout men anyway I mean
because they can't carry babies.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
So, yeah, yeah, whatever, let's just use women
as an incubator, in whateverstate that is but don't take
care of the baby when it comes.
No, Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
As long as we're straight Fuck them kids.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
The term gay in 1955, the term gay was used
throughout Europe earlier, butthis is the year most agree that
gay came to mean same sexrelationships between men.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
That's crazy that that word's only that new too.
I mean I know it used to meanhappy.
Well, it still does mean happy.
It was an easy transition.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Speaking of transitions, transgender.
In 1965, john Oliven, in hisbook Sexual Hygiene and
Pathology, used the termtransgender to mean a person who
identifies with a gender otherthan the one they were assigned
at birth.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
And I'm surprised that people were open about that
back in 65.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
I'm sure they weren't .
They didn't make a term for it.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
But how did they know there were people who felt like
that?

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Well, I think in 65,.
Yeah, they probably knew thatat that point.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's true, we were coming up on sex, drugs and rock
and roll yeah.
They were a little moreopen-minded back then.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, so brief well, it's not even that brief.
So, uh, let's just go throughthe timeline.
We're gonna.
We're gonna go back way, oldschool, we're gonna take it back
.
Yeah, I know what you're allwondering.
It's like why do we need?
But this is not gen x but it is.
I feel like Gen X is probablyone of the more openly accepting
.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
If you feel like we broke the mold on that one, I
feel like that too, and I kindof feel like we continue to be I
don't know, I just don't, Idon't know, I don't know what
else to say about that.
But I don't know if we werejust the trailblazers on that,
or or maybe that does make useven more open minded, because

(30:05):
we've been feeling some kind ofway for a long time, um december
, 1924, the society for humanrights is founded by henry
gerber in chicago.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
The society is the first gay rights organization,
as well as the oldest documentedin america.
After receiving a charter fromthe state of illinois, the
society published the firstamerican publication for
homosexuals friendship andfreedom.
Soon after its founding, thesociety disbands due to
political pressure.
1933 to 1945, nearly 100 000german homosexual men were

(30:43):
rounded up and placed inconcentration camps along with
jewish people.
They were designated by a pinktriangle on their clothing.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
How original you know the scarlet letter, the pink
triangle, uh the germans 1945.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
German homosexual men designated by the pink triangle
on their clothing were the lastgroup to be released from the
nazi concentration camps afterliberation by the allied forces.
Because paragraph 175 of thegerman criminal code stated that
homosexual relations betweenmales were was illegal.
In 1948, biologist and sexresearcher alfred kinsley kinsey

(31:27):
published sexual behavior inthe human male.
From his research, kinsleyincludes concludes that
homosexual behavior is notrestricted to people who
identify themselves ashomosexual and that 37 percent
of men have enjoyed homosexualactivities at least once, while
psychologists and psychiatristsin the 40s considered

(31:47):
homosexuality a form of illness.
The findings surprise manyconservative notions about
sexuality when was freud?

Speaker 1 (31:55):
he was pretty into the gay.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
I think I don't know much about 50s maybe 40s, 40s,
50s somewhere in there.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
I don't know much about freud because I wonder if
he opened some of this upbecause he was well, you know,
he was all about sex, yes, and Ithink homosexuality was a big
part.
I don't know know, I might betalking on my ass.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
I don't know, I don't know I don't know much about
Freud.
November 1950, in Los Angeles,gay rights activist Harry Hay
found America's first sustainednational gay rights organization
of homosexuality.
The Mattachine Society aims toeliminate discrimination,

(32:38):
derision, prejudice and bigotry,to assimilate homosexuals into
Main Street society and tocultivate the notion of an
ethical homosexual culture.
In December of 1950, a Senatereport titled Employment of
Homosexuals and Other SexPerverts in Government is
distributed to members ofCongress.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
I wish you could have seen the look on her face when
she said that Her eye twitchedand everything.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
It's distributed to members of Congress after the
federal government had covertlyinvestigated employees' sexual
orientation at the beginning ofthe Cold War.
The report states sincehomosexuality is a mental
illness, homosexuals constitutesecurity risks to the nation
because those who engage inovert acts of perversion lack

(33:25):
the emotional stability ofnormal persons.
So just to go back over thatit's homosexuals that constitute
security risks to the nationbecause they engage in overt
acts of perversion lack theemotional stability of a normal

(33:47):
person, as opposed to getting ona plane and going to epstein
island.
I was gonna say as opposed topedophiles, and walking through
your own personal beauty pageantfilled with teenage girls
getting half-dressed because youcan.

(34:09):
And then you get to becomepresident of the United States.
Crazy.
Over the previous years, morethan 4,300 gay men and women
have been discharged from themilitary.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
This is the 50s still .

Speaker 2 (34:24):
And around 500 fired from their jobs within the
government.
The purging will become knownas the Lavender Scare.
In 1952, Christine Jorgensenbecomes one of the most famous
transgender people when sheunderwent a sex change operation
and went on to a successfulcareer in show business.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
In the 50s she had a sex change operation.
Wow, I didn't know that was athing back then.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
In April of 1952, the American Psychiatric
Association listed homosexualityas a sociopathic personality
disturbance.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
I love that nobody wants to address mental health
until it's the gays, and thenit's something we need to deal
with.
Yeah, yep, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
It's a sociopathic personality disturbance.
In its first publication of theDiagnostic and Statistical
Manual of Mental Disorders,immediately following the
manual's release, manyprofessionals in medicine,
mental health and social sciencecriticized the categorization
due to the lack of empirical andscientific data.
Shocker, I know it's crazy.

(35:33):
In 1953, president DwightEisenhower signs Executive Order
10450, banning homosexuals fromworking for the federal
government or any of its privatecontractors.
Now I hate Eisenhower.
The order lists homosexuals asa security risk, along with
alcoholics and neurotics.

(35:54):
Yeah, okay, I'm just going tolet that lay there for a minute.
In 1955, in San Francisco, theDaughters of Billetis becomes
the first lesbian rightsorganization in the United
States.
The organization hosts socialfunctions providing alternatives

(36:16):
to lesbian bars and clubs,which are frequent, frequently
raided by police I will saylesbian bar is my first gay
experience, because emery hobart, the lesbian bars, well it's
gone now yeah, but I think thegay bars were too like the male.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Gay bars were too intimidating for me.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
But they were pretty intense.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, and they were also like bars.
So when I was like 16, 17,lesbian places were more like
restaurants.
Yes, I felt like so I could bemore comfortable, not more
comfortable.
I could actually be therebecause I wasn't 21.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
In 1956, american psychologist Evelyn Hooker
shares her paper the Adjustmentof the Male Overt Homosexual at
the American PsychologicalAssociation Convention in
Chicago.
After administeringpsychological tests, such as the
Rorschach, to groups ofhomosexual and heterosexual
males, hooker's researchconcludes homosexuality is not a

(37:17):
clinical entity and thatheterosexuals and homosexuals do
not differ significantly.
Hooker's experiment becomesvery influential, changing
clinical perceptions ofhomosexuality.
In january of 1958, thelandmark case one inc.
Versus olison.
The united states supreme courtrules in favor of the first
amendment right of January of1958,.

(37:37):
The landmark case 1 Inc vOleson.
The United States Supreme Courtrules in favor of the First
Amendment right of the Lesbians,gay, bisexual and Transgender.
Lgbt magazine 1, the homosexualmagazine.
The suit was filed after the USPostal Service and FBI declared
the magazine obscene materialand it marks the first time the
United States Supreme Courtrules in favor of homosexuals,

(38:00):
the gays.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Goddamn post office.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
January of 1962, illinois repeals its sodomy laws
, becoming the first US state todecriminalize homosexuality Go
on with yourself.
Illinois, 1965, july 4th of1965, an Independence Hall in
Philadelphia homosexuality Go onwith yourself.
Illinois, 1965 and July 4th1965.
At Independence Hall inPhiladelphia, picateers began
staging the first Reminder Dayto call public attention to the

(38:26):
lack of civil rights for LGBTpeople.
The gathering will continueannually for five years.
In April of 1966, members ofthe Mattachine Society staged a
sip-in at the Julius Bar inGreenwich Village, where the New
York Liquor Authority prohibitsserving gay patrons in bars on
the basis that homosexuals aredisorderly.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Well, I mean that can be true, but I'm surprised New
York was so far behind.
Yeah, Like I would think theywould have been more open, I
guess that was for californiayeah all those hippies out in
california.
Yeah, gay hippies society.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
President dick litch and other members announced her
homosexuality and immediatelyrefused service.
Following the sip in themadishin, the Mattachine Society
will sue the New York LiquorAuthority.
Although no laws are overturned, the New York City Commission
on Human Rights declares thathomosexuals have the right to be
served.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Fuck me right.
I just love that.
They had a sip-in.
Yeah, me too, that soundsadorable.
I want to go.
They had a sip in yeah, me too,that sounds adorable.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
I want to go to a sip in Me too.
I don't even drink.
Oh, I just spilled water onmyself.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
That's why you don't drink.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
August 1966, after transgender customers become
raucous at a 24-hour SanFrancisco cafeteria, management
calls police.
While a police officermanhandles one of the patrons,
she throws coffee in his faceand a riot ensues, eventually
spilling out into the street,destroying police and public

(40:09):
property.
Following the riot, activistsestablished the National
Transsexual Counseling Unit, thefirst peer-run support and
advocacy organization in theworld.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Really.
Yes, that's what that said Fortrans or for anyone.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
I don't know.
Okay, that's super impressive.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, I love peer and advocacy.
I think those are the strongesttools.
Yes, agreed and advocacy.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
I think those are the strongest tools.
Yes Agreed.
Frequently raided by policeofficers trying to clean up the
neighborhood of sexual deviance,angry gay youth clash with
aggressive police officers inthe streets, leading to a
three-day riot during whichthousands of protesters receive
only minimal local coveragelocal news coverage.

(41:09):
Nonetheless, the event will becredited with the reigniting the
fire behind America's modernLGBT rights movement.
Also in 1969, the GayLiberation Front organization
formed in New York following theStonewall riots to advocate for
sexual liberation for allpeople.
Also, the Gay Activist Allianceformed in New York by a group

(41:34):
who are not satisfied with thedirection of the gay liberation
front.
Their purpose was morepolitical and they wanted to
secure basic human rights,dignity and freedom for all gay
people.
June 28, 1970, christopherStreet Liberation Day
commemorates the one-yearanniversary of the Stonewall
Riots.
Following the event, thousandsof members of the LGBT community

(41:55):
march all through New York intoCentral Park in what will be
considered America's first gaypride parade.
In the coming decades, theannual gay pride parade will
spread to dozens of countriesaround the world.
In 1971, the Body Politicmagazine began publishing in
Toronto, canada, becoming one ofthe most widely read

(42:15):
publications regarding LGBTrights.
In 1972, the play Coming Out,written by Jonathan Ned Katz, is
performed for the first time inNew York and provides a
historical perspective of gaylife from the colonial period to
the present.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
In December 1973, the Board of American Psychiatric
Association votes to removehomosexuality from its list of
mental illness.
That's crazy.
It took that long.
Yes, january of 74, kathyKazachenko becomes the first
openly gay American elected topublic office when she wins a
seat on the Ann Arbor MichiganCity Council, yay 1974 seat on

(42:55):
the.
Ann Arbor, michigan City Council, yay 1974,.
Also, elaine Noble becomes thefirst openly gay person to be
elected as a state legislator.
She served in the MassachusettsState House of Representatives
for two terms.
1975, the Bisexual Forumfounded in New York City and the
Gay American IndiansOrganization founded in San
Francisco.

(43:15):
June 1977, singer andconservative Southern Baptist
Anita Bryant leads a successfulcampaign with the Save Our
Children Crusade to repeal a gayrights ordinance in Dade County
, florida.
Bryant faced severe backlashfrom gay rights supporters

(43:35):
across the US.
The gay rights ordinance willnot be reinstated in Dade County
until December of 1998, morethan 20 years later.
Yeah, that's Florida right,which is so fucking weird.
I don't know if they know this,but Florida has a lot of gay
people.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
A lot.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, november 8, 1977.vey milk wins a seat on the
san francisco board ofsupervisors and is responsible
for introducing a gay rightsordinance protecting gays and
lesbians from being fired fromtheir jobs.
Milk also leads a successfulcampaign across proposition

(44:14):
against proposition six, aninitiative forbidding homosexual
teachers.
A year later, november 27th1978, former city supervisor dan
white assassinates milk, whilewhite's actions are motivated by
jealousy and depression ratherthan homophobia.
Let me just say one more thingabout that.

(44:34):
I think that right now, thefact that they are removing
Harvey Milk's name off of thatNavy vessel is just despicable.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Yes, yes, I agree, I don't know yeah.
I hate everybody.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, fuck y'all, fuck y'all.
1978 the briggs initiative, astatewide proposition in
california, was defeated by 58of the voters.
The initiative would havebanned gays and lesbians from
working in california's publicschools.
Also in 1978, in san francisco,the rainbow flag is first flown

(45:14):
during the Gay Freedom Parade.
The flag becomes a symbol ofgay and lesbian pride.
May 21st 1979, dan White isconvicted of voluntary
manslaughter and is sentenced toseven years in prison.
Outraged by what they believeto be a lenient sentence, more
than 5,000 protesters ransackedSan Francisco City Hall, doing

(45:35):
hundreds of thousands of dollarsworth of property damage in the
surrounding area.
The following night,approximately 10 000 people
gather on san francisco's castromarket streets for a peaceful
demonstration to commemoratewhat would have been milk's 49th
birthday wow I mean sevenfucking years.
Come on.
I mean October 1979, anestimated 75,000 people

(46:09):
participate in the NationalMarch on Washington for Lesbian
and Gay Rights.
Lgbt people and straight alliesdemand equal civil rights and
urge for the passage ofprotective civil rights
legislation.
In 1979, chapters of theNational Organization of Parents
and Friends of Lesbians andGays, or PFLAG, are founded
across the United States.
July of 1980, the DemocraticRules Committee states that it

(46:33):
will not discriminate againsthomosexuals at their national
convention.
On august 11th through the 14th, the democrats become the first
major political party toendorse a homosexual rights
platform damn snowflakes.
July 3rd 1981 the new york timesprints the first story of a
rare pneumonia and skin cancerfound in 41 gay men in new york

(46:56):
and california.
The cdc initially refers to thedisease as grid gay related
immune deficiency disorder.
When the symptoms are foundoutside the gay community, bruce
vollar, biologist and founderof the national gay task force,
successfully lobbies to changethe name to the disease AIDS.

(47:20):
March 2nd 1982, wisconsinbecomes the first US state to
outlaw discrimination on thebasis of sexual orientation.
In 1985, rock Hudson dies.
He was leading actor in manymovies in the 50s and 60s.
He died of complicationsrelated to AIDS.
After his death Spoiler alert.
He was leading actor in manymovies in the 50s and 60s.
He died of complicationsrelated to AIDS.
After his death Spoiler alert,he was gay After his death it

(47:42):
was revealed that he was gay andhad several male relationships.
In 1985, the AIDS quilt conceptwas conceived and implemented by
Cleve Jones, an LGBT activistin San Francisco.
An LGBT activist in SanFrancisco, I feel like I mean
AIDS is way too complicated of athing for us to do, so maybe

(48:05):
sometime.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Yeah, it would definitely be its own episode, a
million episodes.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yeah, because March 10th 1987, aids advocacy group
ACT UP the AIDS Coalition toUnleash Power is formed in
response to the devastatingeffects the disease has had on
the gay and lesbian communitiesin New York.
The group holds demonstrationsagainst pharmaceutical companies
profiteering from AIDS-relateddrugs, as well as the lack of

(48:32):
AIDS policies protectingpatients from outrageous
prescription prices.
Get out of here.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
And if you want to, I mean have you watched Pose?

Speaker 2 (48:45):
No, not yet.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
It's so, so good.
It's on my list.
Yeah, it covers a lot of whatit was like in real life having
AIDS, losing friends to AIDS,losing lovers to AIDS.
I can't even imagine it's sucha good show.
I'm thinking about going backand watching it.
It's been a good show.
I'm thinking about going backand watching it.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
It's been a couple years.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
I know that a lot of us were coming of age in the 80s
, yes, when this was a, and Iand didn't AIDS come from
monkeys or something back then?

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I'd have to Google A gay man got bit by a monkey
somewhere and spread it to allthe gays.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I'd have to google.
A gay man got bit by a monkeysomewhere and spread it to all
the gays?

Speaker 2 (49:29):
I don't know that's hard to say.
Maybe he ate a bat, I don'tknow oh, is it gay bats?

Speaker 1 (49:36):
I thought it was gay monkeys.
I feel like all bats areprobably gay.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Probably bats are very gay like this.
Yeah, you know, vampires I meanvampires are very gay.
Like you know, vampires I meanvampires are pretty gay.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Bats are fancy.
Yeah, I mean who sleeps upsidedown?
Come on, vampires and gay bats,gay bats.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
October 11, 1987, hundreds of thousands of
activists take part in theNational Marsh on Washington to
demand that President RonaldReagan address the AIDS crisis.
Although AIDS has been reportedfirst in 1981, it is not until
the end of his presidency thatReagan speaks publicly about the
epidemic.
May to June 1988, the CDC mailsa brochure understanding AIDS

(50:19):
to every household in the US.
Approximately 107 millionbrochures are mailed.
Approximately 107 millionbrochures are mailed.
December 1988 the world healthorganization organizes the first
world aids day to raiseawareness of the spreading
pandemic.
So here is also like so that's1988 and now we're moving into

(50:39):
the 90s, which we all were atthat point of age, coming of age
, etc.
And I do remember it was scary,yeah, and we're not gay right
exactly.
Um, yeah, I, I think it's justlike one of those things where
like people these days, likeaids is like not even a big

(51:02):
thing anymore.
Nobody even gives a shit aboutaids.
I mean you think, yeah, if youcatch HIV, you live.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
I think it's until you get like full-blown AIDS.
So if you ignore the symptomsyou can end up sick but yeah, I
remember being terrified of it,even though I wasn't gay.
Because back then, like theywould make it sound like if you
shook hands with somebody youcould get AIDS.
Yeah, but it was a minoritythat was having this issue, so

(51:30):
nobody really gave a fuck Untilthey had to Right, until it
started spreading to the well, Iwould say to the street people.
But it was probably brought onby all the closeted men.
I feel that were out having gaysex and then bringing it home to
their families.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
I think that was part , and then I think Magic Johnson
yeah, I mean, for me I feellike that was probably the
turning point that blew my mindIn the American eyes, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah.
And then it was like oh fuck,he was an idol.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah, yeah, and he wasn't gay, right?
Yeah, august 18th 1990,president george bush senior
finds signs the ryan white careact as a federally funded
program for people living withaids.
Ryan white, an indiana teenager, contracted aids in 1984
through a tainted hemophiliatreatment.

(52:25):
After being barred fromattending school because of his
HIV positive status, ryan Whitebecomes a well-known activist
for AIDS research andanti-discrimination, I was going
to say, and Ryan White also.
And then Princess Diana I meanshe, that was one of her things
and her going on TV and she usedto make me nervous because she

(52:46):
was in the heart of it.
She was going into third worldcountries and hospitals, and
yeah, and I was like no princessdiana, because at that point I,
my young mind, still thinks youcan get it anyway yeah, yeah,
in 1991, created by the newyork-based visual aids, the red
ribbon is adopted as a symbol ofawareness and compassion for
those living with HIV AIDS.

(53:06):
December 21st 1993, theDepartment of Defense issues a
directive prohibiting the USmilitary from barring applicants
from service based on theirsexual orientation.
Applicants shall not be askedor required to reveal whether
they are homosexual.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
What is it?
Don't ask, don't tell.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
States.
The new policy which forbidsthat was under Bush Jr right,
yes, I think no, senior, this isstill senior.
Okay, 93.
Oh yeah, no no, no, no, it'sClinton, it's Clinton.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Clinton States a new policy which still forbids
applicants from engaging inhomosexual acts or making a
statement that he or she ishomosexual.
The policy is known as don'task, don't tell, and I do think
that it gets a lot of shit, andI know that both Hillary and
Bill got a lot of shit becauseit wasn't.

(54:01):
But you have to start somewhere.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
I think that's.
You can't just be like like, no, let all the gays in.
I mean they would all gotmurdered I agree, I think it was
a.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I think it was they were.
It was a, they were trying.
Yeah, I think that's part ofthe problem.
Like a lot of, I agree.
It's stupid that gay peopledon't have rights Like this
fucking, this dumbest fuckingthing.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
I've ever heard in my entire life, absolutely.
Um however although womendidn't have rights either.
And again, that's the stupidestfucking thing, but again it has
to.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
I'm getting, here comes my soapbox.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Woohoo, I knew it was coming.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
I did too.
The whole time I was writingthis I the whole time I was
writing this, I was like fuck,I'm gonna get on a soapbox.
I just know it, I'm surprisedit took you this long.
It took me 55 minutes in.
So here's the thing about it allthis last election we're going

(55:07):
there, yep, oh, my god uh, Ithink it is incredibly fucking
stupid that people don't think awoman can run the country.
It's dumb.
Obviously men can't do itbecause it's really not been
working out for the last 200 andsome years 300 years, and how
many female leaders are therearound the world?
Yeah it's.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
It's ridiculous we're such an advanced country.
We are so far behind in so manyways.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
However this country still holds this stupid thing.
So you have to take it one stepat a time, otherwise if you
jump in with I don't know ablack female going against a
fucking idiot who likes to,laugh.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah, and apparently that was very unappealing this
is what happens.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Um, it was too much, it was too too diverse, and this
obviously isn't.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
We're obviously too fucking stupid to be able to put
things aside can you imaginewhat the world would be like
right now if she would have won?
I think it was shown when peoplechose to vote for a black man
over a white woman yes granted,it was hillary, and nobody likes

(56:25):
hillary, right, but I thinkthat told you everything you
needed to know well, and lookingat trump's presidency, he ran
against a man he lost, while heran against a woman he won.
He ran against a man, he lost,he ran against a woman this just
shows you that fucking peopleare fucking stupid.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Um, so I I honestly didn't.
I I did vote for kamala.
I did think that she was thebetter of the two candidates.
I do think that they should nothave run her.
I think it was.
I agree, but I do think shewould have done.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
it was too much at stake, it was poor planning, but
I don't think they necessarilyhad a strong enough male
candidate to do it.
I think they should have runButtigieg, but again, he's gay.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
So what do you have?
One diversity that you wanted.
He was also a veteran.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah, but anyway, people are going to gravitate
towards the thing they hate, sobut I think she would have done
a great job.
I really do.
I agree with you 100%.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
I just think that this country is too fucking
stupid and too racist, yesexactly.
And that's what I was trying tosay.
They voted for this fuckingbackwards, racist, fucking
stupid ass country, voted for ablack man over a white woman,
and that just goes to show youhow they're just not ready for a
woman, whatever, it's fuckingstupid, stupid.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
I should be in charge you always wanted to be I know,
always wanted to bepresidentress of the world, of
the world.
Yes, she has been saying thatas long as I would make the
greatest presidentress of theworld there is.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
She really would.
Let me just one platform andthen we'll move back on.
Okay, but I think if you beatyour wife, girlfriend, whatever,
if you beat your significant,your your wife and she didn't
deserve it.
Sometimes I want to beat mywife but I don't.
And if you, I think that onFriday nights it should be

(58:25):
televised that you have to go inthe ring with a female boxer on
TV and have the shit kicked outof you by Layla.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Ali.
I also feel that if you playprofessional sports, making
millions of dollars a year, andyou can't keep your hands off of
your wife or girlfriend, thatyou should not have that
privilege.
It is a very small percentageof people that make it there and
there is a guy who will gladlytake your place.
I don't think that you shouldbe allowed to play professional

(58:56):
sports if you're abusive, and Ifeel for some of these kids.
I know they've come up in roughareas but that does not give
you the right to put your handson anyone else.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Yes, nope.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Keep your hands on anybody else, yes, no, keep your
hands to yourself people.
Yeah, for real, I used to.
I had a boyfriend in highschool that would punch himself
in the head when he got upset.
So, yeah, do that, do that.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I mean nothing, we broke up obviously, anyway,
moving on, that's so popular sowe gotta keep moving here 1994,
greg luganis, four-time olympicgold medalist and considered one
of the greatest divers inhistory, publicly came out as
gay as part of the gay games innew york city.
He subsequently wrote a bookentitled breaking the surface

(59:38):
that was published in 1996.
In it he revealed his olympicexperience coming out journey,
and that was.
He was diagnosed with aids in1988 and, if you recall, he also
hit his head on the divingboard and bled in the pool yes,
and that was like oh my god.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah, all the olympians have aids.
Yeah, may 20th 1996.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
in the case of romer versus evans, the united states
supreme court decides thatcolorado's second amendment
denying gays and lesbiansprotection against
discrimination isunconstitutional, calling them
special rights.
September 21st 1996, presidentClinton signs the Defense of
Marriage Act into law.
The law defines marriage as alegal union between one man and

(01:00:20):
one woman and that no state isrequired to recognize the
same-sex marriage from out ofstate.
Yes, president Clinton did notdo a good job there.
1997, ellen DeGeneres, acomedian, tv actor and
television host, was one of thefirst popular entertainers who
publicly came out as lesbianduring an interview on the Oprah
Winfrey show and then becamethe first openly gay character

(01:00:43):
on the TV show Ellen.
She was then highlighted on thecover of Time Magazine and
other news organizations, andshe's not a good person.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
She's not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
It's sad yeah 1998, matthew Shepard, a 20.
This is sad too.
Speaking of sad, 1998, matthewShepard, a 21-year-old student
at the University of Wyomingthis poor kid's face is burned
in my brain for the rest of mylife Was brutally attacked and
tied to a fence in a fieldoutside of Laramie, wyoming, and
left to die because he was gay.

(01:01:15):
He died from his wounds severaldays later.
This was one of the mostnotorious anti-gay hate crimes
in America and resulted in afederal law passed 10 years
later, in 2009, called the hatecrimes prevention act, a federal
law against biased crimesdirected at lesbian, gay,
bisexual or transgender people.
So if you're younger which Idon't know how many younger

(01:01:36):
people we have listening- but.
And you're like why is it likeeverybody?
Why is this parade?
It's so stupid because peoplegot killed yeah because they
were gay that's why yeah april1st 1998, corretta scott king,
widow of civil rights leadermartin luther king jr, calls on
the civil rights community tojoin the struggle against
homophobia.
She receives criticism frommembers of the black civil

(01:01:59):
rights movement for comparingcivil rights to gay rights.
I mean, I feel, I feel likeCoretta Scott.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
King, it's all human rights.
Yeah, it's not you or me orwhatever it's everybody has the
right to be who they are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
If Coretta Scott King comes out and says it, then you
should just.
April 26, 2000,.
Vermont becomes the first statein the US to legalize civil
unions and registeredpartnerships between same-sex
couples.
Us to legalize civil unions andregistered partnerships between
same-sex couples.
June 26, 2003, the Lawrence vTexas US Supreme Court rules
that sodomy laws in the US areunconstitutional.

(01:02:34):
May 18, 2004,.
Massachusetts becomes the firststate to legalize gay marriage.
The court finds the prohibitionof gay marriage
unconstitutional because itdenies dignity and equality of
all individuals.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
In the following six years, new hampshire, vermont,
connecticut and iowa andwashington dc will follow suit
I've always thought, though,about all those poor gay people
that didn't want to get married,and they always had that excuse
like, well, we can't getmarried.
And then they legalize it, andthere are significant others
like god.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
They're like no, some some of us don't want to get
married.
Yeah, some of us did, whatever.
August 9th 2007, sponsored bythe human rights campaign, the
logo cable channel hosts thefirst american presidential
forum focusing specifically onLGBT issues, inviting each

(01:03:30):
presidential candidate.
Six Democrats participate inthe forum, including Hillary
Clinton and Barack Obama, whileall Republican candidates
declined Shocker.
I fucking love the Logo Channel.
I loved it.
That's where RuPaul's drag racefirst started.
That is where, um, oh fuck,what was the name of that show?

(01:03:52):
No, that was hbo, I think.
Um, no, queer spoke, I thinkwas on like uh, hbo or showtime,
and then the l word was onshowtime.
I think I've watched all ofthem.
I loved all of them, um, butlike just one, just real quick,
I have to say that, rupaul, Idon't think I could love any
more a person any more than Ilove RuPaul, and I consistently

(01:04:17):
say her phrases over and overand over again you can't, how
you can't love, how in the hellare you going to love somebody
else?
How you can't love, how in thehell you're gonna love somebody
else if you don't?

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
love yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Yes um, other people's opinions of you are
none of your business.
That one I live by becauseother people's opinions of you
are not your business.
Just don't worry about it.
Um, unless they pay your bills,welcome, yeah, um, so that was
a little good job.
November 4th 2008 californiavoters approve proposition 8

(01:04:51):
making same-sex marriage incalifornia illegal.
I remember that passing of theballot garners national
attention from gay rightssupporters across the us.
Prop 8 inspires the no hatecampaign, a photo project that
uses celebrities to promotemarriage equality.
I remember that campaign verywell.
June 17th 2009, president Obamasigns a presidential memorandum

(01:05:14):
allowing same-sex partners offederal employees to receive
certain benefits.
The memorandum does not coverfull health coverage health
coverage.
I do remember I'm pretty sureDisney was one of the first
companies to cover same-sexcouples.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Good for them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
I mean that's their whole fucking gas.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
They had to, nobody would have benefits at Disney.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
October 28, 2009,.
The Matthew Shew shepherd actis passed by congress and signed
into law by president obama.
The measure expands the 1969 usfederal hate crime law to
include crimes motivated by avictim's actual or perceived
gender, sexual orientation,gender identity or disability.
Matthew shepherd oh, we alreadywent through that.

(01:06:06):
August 4th 2010, a federaljudge in San Francisco decides
that gays and lesbians have theconstitutional right to marry
and that Prop 8 isunconstitutional.
December 18th 2010, the USSenate votes 65 to 31 to repeal
Don't Ask, don't Tell policyallowing gays and lesbians to
serve openly in the us military.

(01:06:27):
February 23rd 2011 presidentobama states his administration
will no longer defend thedefense of marriage act, which
bans the recognition of same-sexmarriage.
June 24th 2011 new york statepasses thequality Act, becoming
the largest state thus far tolegalize gay marriage.
June 26, 2015, with a 5-4decision in Obersfeld v Hodges,

(01:06:57):
the US Supreme Court declaressame-sex marriage legal in all
50 states.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Just only 10 years ago and by a vote of 5-4, barely
passed.
It could still years ago.
Yes, and by a vote of five tofour yes.
Barely passed.
It could still be illegal rightnow.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
So that was where my timeline stopped.
I decided, you know, let's justend with the declaring same-sex
marriage legal in all 56.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
On a high note, yes, but I want to say like there I
mean, besides, we talked aboutthe Romans and the Greeks and
all that being openly gay, butthere is very good evidence that
Abraham Lincoln was gay.
He had a wife, but she said hedidn't even stay at home with
her.
He stayed at his boyfriend'shouse all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Yes, he had it yes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
And Ben Franklin would fuck anything that moved,
and these are our foundingfathers and presidents, and like
it's always been there, like Ijust I just I just, I just can't
, I don't even know what to sayabout it.
Like I just don't understandand and and the, the thing I

(01:08:01):
that always comes back to me andit's so basic.
But how does this affect yourlife?

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
I, that is my number one thing.
Why do you fucking care?

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
if you don't like gay marriage.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Don't go getting gay married.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Yeah, that's, that's one of my favorite memes if
you're against gay marriage sayno if a gay man or a gay person
asks you to marry them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
don't't get gay married.
Yeah, it's just that I don'tunderstand how it affects you
even slightly.
It doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
And you all know that the more homophobic you act,
the more we all know that youhave some tendencies that you
are trying to cover up.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
That's just the most fucking ridiculous thing ever.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Like, if you don't like gays, you're probably not
going to be around gays.
You're probably gonna have nothave them in your family, like
openly with you if they know howyou feel.
You're probably in a job whereyou're with tough guys.
You know, you know people likethat.
Your circle of friendscertainly probably doesn't have
a gay person in it.

(01:09:03):
Um, so what do you care?

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
like it literally has no effect on your life
whatsoever, even slightly, andall these bible thumpers that
are like, oh, they're going tohell, why do you care who goes
to hell?
And jesus never said youcouldn't be gay and and you want
to don't go to hell, then ifthey.
If you're so worried about hell, then keep yourself from going
to hell.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Don't worry about where I'm going yeah, and I mean
, hopefully you are going toheaven, because I want to be in
hell with all the fun people,exactly if that's where all the
gays and the all the fun stuffhappens in hell yeah it's just
heaven sounds like a horribleplace.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
If you can't be gay, and you can't gamble, and you
can't drink and you can't smokeand you can't, it just sounds
like a horrible place so you siton a cloud with big wings that
you have to carry around all thetime.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
No thanks, I hate heart music and it's got to be
so fucking crowded up there.
Do you know how many peoplehave died, I know, in the past 2
000 years?
I know because I don't know ifthere was a heaven before 2 000
years ago and I just I don't getit.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
um, I did want to mention two.
There's a million differentorganizations, but the Trevor
Project and the it Gets BetterProject you should check those
both out.
They both are for young gaypeople.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
The funny thing is today or yesterday I was
thinking about today's episodeand I really liked that you did
the mental health.
Um, yes, uh, resources in thatone show.
And I didn't even know whattoday's topic was, because she
doesn't bother to tell me,because I don't pay any
attention, no, and I like beingsurprised too.
But, um, I was thinking youshould put up some resources for

(01:10:40):
this show, but then you told methe topic and I was like, oh,
I'm sure she, yeah, yeah, I'mgonna guess there's no fun facts
about gay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
That's where you're wrong I don't know how fun they
are, but I do have some facts.
Okay, the singular they, themused to be the most popular
pronoun in the English language,happily used by Jane Austen and
William Shakespeare, up untilthe 19th century.
It was around then that thepronouns splintered into the he,
him, she, her, division.
We know today, as people wantedEnglish to be more neatly

(01:11:11):
symmetrical, like Latin, did notknow that, but this made
English into a bit of an outlier.
254 of the 378 languagestracked by the World Atlas of
Language Structures online don'tspecify gender at all with
their pronouns.
So forms of same-sex marriagehave existed as far back as the

(01:11:32):
3rd and 10th centuries,according to ancient church
liturgical documents thatdescribe the office of same-sex
unions and even an order foruniting two men.
One variation of this union wascalled I'm not even going to
try Described the office ofsame-sex unions and even an
order for uniting two men.
One variation of this union wascalled I'm not even going to

(01:11:54):
try, okay, the Saul, st Sergius,a Roman army commander, unite
with St Bacchus, his deputy.
The Catholic Church laterstripped them of sainthood in
1969 and no longer practiced therite and no longer practice the
rite.
This ceremony often includesall things typical of weddings
gathering in a church, a coupleblessed at the altar and even a

(01:12:17):
banquet after Then there is theand I'm going to really just
fuck this up, but the Kanjasjemipedaglyphics are ancient rock
carvings thought to have beencreated between 3 000 and 4 000
years ago.
They're the earliest knownexample of porn.
Researchers have found betweenthe shapely female carvings and
the large penis wielding malecarvings are what researchers

(01:12:39):
found as a third group wearingfeminine headdresses and had
erect phalluses, leadingresearchers to consider the
carvings were graphic, to saythe least.
In some illustrations, menembrace other men and others
dance around gendernonconforming figures.
In another, a male is seenembracing another male, while a
third masturbates alone.
Other men with erections appearto be dancing with a gender

(01:13:01):
nonconforming figure.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
I would imagine that 3,000, 4,000 years ago they
weren't hiding it.
Nope, and probably nobody cared.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
I mean they wrote porn about it.
Yeah, the word the word dragactually originated centuries
ago from the old british dialectphrase dressed resembling a
gallant, referring to mendressed flamboyantly.
A very glamorous history upuntil the late 1400s, the word
girl only had meaning for achild of either sex.

(01:13:30):
Male children were referred toas knave girls, whereas females
were known as gay girls that'swhen they were happy and in 1962
, american rock guitarist,singer and songwriter, jimmy
hendrix, pretended to be gay inorder to get out of the army.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Smart Yep, I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
So that's gay, that's gay.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
That's gay, that's all the gay, that's all the gay
I have for today, today's gay.
That was fascinating, yeah, andI think it's something that
needed to be told.
I think it's important toremember the history of how
we've gotten where we are, andwhile it feels like we've well,

(01:14:19):
sometimes it feels like we'restill so far to go, and we are.
But, when you listen to what youwent through, what you talked
through.
We have made strides, yes, andwe're never going to end bigotry
, no, racism, no Hate, no.
So unfortunately they're notalways.

(01:14:40):
They're not.
I don't want to be so negative,but I mean black people will
probably be like, oh duh,they're never going to be fully
accepted.
Indigenous people, yeah, yeah,pretty much Anybody that's not
white, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
And that's fucked up, because it makes the world a
better place if we're not allthe same.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
It's so fun.
Can you imagine if every singleperson thought the same thing,
did the same thing?

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
I cannot imagine a life without gay people, right?
Because where we live for thoseof you that are not from here
or don't know about here we havea very large gay population.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
In Delaware I know sounds weird, but it's true the
town of Rehoboth and Lewis has avery, very, very large gay
population.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
And have for a long time.
When we were going there in the80s this is what I was talking
about back then, when we werelike 15, 16, 17 years old there
were huge gay bars down there.
I mean, from the highway youcould see the fluorescent lights
and hear the music.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
We went the under 21 club that we went to was over
top of a drag bar.
That's how we saw drag showsall the time.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
I was going to say we went there on the drag nights.
But it was so cool too thatthey were so accepting of us
yeah they sacrificed a night sothat we could, we kids would
have somewhere to go.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Little goth kids had somewhere.
That's what I'm trying to sayabout.
Like they, just that.
And you know there was thishuge leather bar out by the
highway.
That building's gone andeverything and was that the
renegade?
Yeah, okay and they used tohave the miss america pageants.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
That's the one I was talking about with the lights
and the like yeah you knew, yousaw that place yeah, that was um
, you know and then there's theblue moon, who is still there
which is yeah, which is myfavorite the uh, the fraud pond
is gone though yeah, that was myfirst gay bar that I hung out
in yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
I just I don't know.
I think I'm a big fan of drag.
Always have been, always willbe.
Again, like I said, rupaul'sone of my favorite people.
Like, I don't even know whatshe's like in life outside, I
don't know she could be theworst person on the planet, I
don't even give a shit because Ijust love her, her and michelle

(01:17:08):
visage.
I just I know I have alwayswanted one of the best times I
ever had.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
My brother-in-law is gay and um, well, you were with
me.
Yes, see, that's how drunk Iwas.
I didn't even remember thismuch later that she was there.
Um, yeah, so uh, we I.
I had just met my husband, weweren't married yet and, um, I
finally had a spouse or asignificant other that approved

(01:17:40):
of me doing things.
Um, that's a whole nother show.
Oh yeah, I so yeah.
So Heather and I got to takeour first real trip together,
and I say got to because it's awhole nother story.
Okay.
So, anyway, we go out there.
And he's like, well, we had theplane to go to Sedona already,

(01:18:02):
and then his brother lives inPhoenix, so we spent a couple of
days in Sedona, which was hisbrother lives in Phoenix.
Um, so we spent a couple daysin Sedona, which was lovely, yes
, uh.
And then we went to Phoenix and, um, my brother-in-law tried to
kill me.
Um, yes, he did, yeah and uh,but, uh, we went out for some
really yummy Mexican, which, ifyou want some real good Mexican,
go to Phoenix, arizona.
Because, wow, heather didn'tlike it so much.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
But she likes very American.
I like my Taco Bell.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Mexican, yes, and her nachos.
I had nachos last night, as amatter of fact.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
Yummy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
So, anyway, we go for Mexican and then he takes us to
a drag bar.
And it's funny because my nieceposted or sent a picture in the
group chat the other day.
She and her friends were out atthe drag bar and it's the place
that he took us to.
Yeah, and he was like oh my god, I went there every Friday for

(01:18:55):
20 years, so we get there and Iused to not turn down a shot and
the drag queens picked up onthat yes, they did brought me up
on stage.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
Yes, they did served me a lot of shots, yeah, but
then I had to pick her up off ofa pool table well, that was at
the country bar that we went to,next the cowboy bar.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
The funniest thing, the thing I will never forget
about that is he passed out onthe dance floor and my
brother-in-law waking me up witha fresh margarita in his hand,
trying to hand it to me and youcoming up and saying what the
fuck are you doing?
And he was like what I mean?
You think I'm a troublemaker?

(01:19:39):
He is a troublemaker.
I can be very persuasive andannoying, but he is bad, yeah.
And so then I passed out on apool table.
Pretty sure people were playinga game of pool at the time, uh
that's when we got kicked out wegot kicked out.
The guy he was with that nightflung me over his shoulder I was

(01:20:00):
skinny then threw me in histruck.
They dumped us at home.
We woke up the next morninglike where are we good times?
Oh my god, it was so fun.
Probably not for you, but wedid have to fly out the next day
.
And do you remember, before wewent out that night I was like
I'm not gonna drink much I don'twant to fly hungover and she
was fucking hung and I probablydrank more than I've ever drank

(01:20:22):
in my life.
I think that was great.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
That was yeah, yeah, Good times yeah it was.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, we love, we are bigfans of the gay community and
it's Pride Month and we are bigallies and all that.

(01:20:44):
So thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
Like share, thank you .

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Like share rate review.
Find us where you listen topodcasts.
Follow us on all the socials.
She stole my last line, so Igot to think of something else.
Hold on.
You can send us an email aboutwhat your drag name would be to
likewhateverpod at gmailcom ordon't like whatever.

(01:21:11):
Whatever?

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Bye, bye.