The Real Housewives of Happily Ever After

Remember those Disney fairytales you grew up with? Turns out they were heavily sanitized versions of much darker, often horrific stories that would give most adults nightmares—let alone children.

We're diving deep into the true origins of beloved classics like Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, and The Little Mermaid, revealing the disturbing elements Disney conveniently left out. From cannibalism and self-mutilation to sexual assault and graphic violence, these original tales were never meant for children at all. 

Snow White's evil queen actually demanded the girl's liver and lungs to cook and eat, while Cinderella's stepsisters cut off their own toes and heels to fit into the glass slipper—only to have birds peck out their eyes as punishment at the wedding. Sleeping Beauty's story gets even darker, involving a comatose princess who gives birth after being assaulted while unconscious. The Little Mermaid doesn't marry her prince; she sacrifices herself and dissolves into sea foam rather than murder him to save herself.

These weren't just entertainment—they were psychological tools that helped communities process fear, establish moral boundaries, and prepare people for the harsh realities of medieval life. Some, like Snow White, might even be based on real historical figures who met tragic ends. We explore the fascinating theory that the real Snow White could have been Margaret von Waldeck, a German countess who was poisoned at age 21 after falling in love with a prince her family disapproved of.

Share this episode with anyone who loves Disney classics but never knew what those bright, musical adaptations were hiding. And let us know which disturbing fairy tale origin shocked you the most by emailing us at [e-mail]—we'll even send you a sticker!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Two best friends.
We're talking the past, frommid-sapes to arcades.
We're having a blast Teenagedreams, neon screens.
It was all rad and you're oneof me, like you know.
It's like whatever Togetherforever.
We've never done this, everLaughing and sharing our stories
.
Forever We'll take you back.

(00:25):
It's like whatever.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to Like Whatever a podcast for.
By and about Gen X.
I'm Nicole and this is my BFF,heather.
Hello, so how has your weekbeen?

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Okay, my mail count is officially over.
Yay, I know, I'm mail count isofficially over.
Yay, I know.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm excited, best news ever yes.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
so now I get to stress out about my salary
changing.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Hopefully an increase .
I hope so, but other than that,yeah, I've just felt like a big
dog turd all week.
I have a toothache and a stormsat over us for like three days
and gave me on the verge of amigraine and these allergies,

(01:15):
like my allergies, are worse inthe fall than in the spring Mine
too.
So my whole body aches like Ihave a fever, but I don't have a
fever and yeah, I just feelpretty boopy yeah, but besides
the storm, the weather has beenfantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
It has just amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
If it could be like this all year long, yes, it
would be great yeah, so where weare, it's been in the mid to
upper 70s during the day and the50s at night it's been sunny.
On the way here, it was cloudyand windy and I knew it was
going to rain, but not becauseof the clouds and rain.
Do you know why?

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Did your knee hurt?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
No, why?
Because all the cows were lyingdown.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That is the thing, guys, Idon't know it is, it is, it is.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
I don't know if you have cows where you live, but
when it's going to rain, thecows are laying down, yep, and
if only half the cows are layingdown, that's only a 50-50 shot
that it's going to rain.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, and I drive through a lot of country to get
here and pass a lot of cows andthey were all laying.
The donkeys were standing up,the horses were ending up, all
the cows were laying down.
I was like, oh, it's going torain.
Did you guys have cow tippingdown here when you were a kid?

Speaker 3 (02:28):
You know that's a myth, right?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, I haven't really thought about it.
Like it just popped into myhead, but I grew up in the
country surrounded by farmfields livestock and I always
wanted I swear people I went tohigh school with said they went
cow tipping.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
It's an urban legend.
I don't think it's physicallypossible to tip a cow over.
Yeah, that makes sense now.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I mean, I guess that the theory back then was they
were standing sleeping at nightand you'd sneak up and push them
and they would just boop, fallover and I always wanted to go.
But even if it was a real thing, I'm glad I never did, because
that seems sad.
Yeah, I mean my undeveloped,immature brain thought it would
be funny at that time, but Iwould feel really awful now if I
had ever pushed cows over.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, I think it's an urban legend.
I don't think anybody actually.
I don't think it's possible topush a cow over.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, that makes sense, yeah, that makes a lot of
sense.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
I mean, you're going to wake them up as soon as you
touch them.
Yeah, and I think To sleep.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
And they probably hear you coming.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
They're a prey animal , so you know probably.
On alert the VMAs were lastnight.
I didn't watch them.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Oh yeah, I did.
Yeah, it's crazy how manypeople I just have absolutely no
clue, Like if you want to feelold?
watch the VMAs and footballended and I didn't feel like
watching the after football showso I was like, oh, let me put
the red carpet on before itstarted.
And there I literally know noone, because nobody famous like

(03:56):
sabrina carpenter the weekend no, but none of those people are
on the red carpet.
So it's all these littlechildren and they all act like
they're so fancy and so grownand I'm like you're just little
babies.
And then they perform and I'mlike I still don't know who you
are.
Never heard that song, I'venever heard your name, never
seen your face.
So I guess I'm officially old.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
I think that ship sailed several years ago, that
you became officially old,although your new Young Obs
obsession performed I know I didsee that, I did watch that,
yeah, he he was good and I don't.
Um, I don't know if.
Have you seen that we don'tcare?

Speaker 1 (04:35):
club the lady that does the.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
We don't care she has tiktoks, but she also has reels
on facebook.
I'll have to send it to you,okay.
But um, it's this lady and shedoes menopause stuff and it's
the we Don't Care Club.
And it's like here's the 10things that we don't care about
today, and it's like we don'tcare that we are wearing
sweatpants all the time.
And we don't care that the chinhair is longer than the hair on

(04:59):
our heads All this.
And I was going somewhere withthat.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
VMAs and all this and um.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
I was going somewhere with that vmas.
No young blood.
Oh, it was, that was.
We don't care that he's way tooyoung and something else.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
But oh, she's in love with young blood.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Oh, I have all of them, like that was several of
them and I was like, yeah, Idon't, I don't think I want him
to like talk.
Yeah, I think he's probably anidiot.
No offense young bud.
You're very pretty to look at,but I think yeah, I would go
very narcissistic, oh, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
So when he is talking , it's probably a lot of eye
rolling.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, just be quiet and sit here pretty.
Yeah, just let me look at you.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, I don't even want to touch you, I just want
to look at you, push youreyeliner on and be quiet.
Oh, I thought I had somethingelse that I did, something I
forgot to mention a week or twoago I left here after recording.
I was driving home and wayahead of me there was this

(06:01):
little red speck.
But I loved them so much backthen I was like no way, is that
a Fiero?
And I didn't even know theywere still on the roads.
So I sped up.
I was on country roads, itdidn't matter To catch up to him
.
And sure enough it was a cherryred mint condition Fiero.
And I was like wow.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
I have seen a couple, and they're always red.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Did they make them in another color?
I feel like they came in blackand silver and red, but I
wouldn't drive one.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
No.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
They explode when they get rear-ended.
Well, I mean, that was thewhole issue with them.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
These cars today are just meant to be destroyed
anyway.
Cars these days are justthrowaways.
I don't know if we talked aboutthis.
Be destroyed anyway, I don't.
Cars these days are justthrowaways.
I don't know if we talked aboutthis the last time, but I don't
think that we did, but you'reexactly right.
I mean you can't work on ityourself anymore.
I was going to change the oilin my own car because I do
actually enjoy changing the oilin my car, Like the Jeep.

(07:01):
It was super easy because, hey,you don't have to lift it even,
but there's like a whole panelunderneath that you have to take
off first.
So it's like not even worth ittrying.
So I don't know, it's just.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
I know I work with high schoolers graduating and
going into careers and one ofthe trades a lot of the you know
the more rural kind of kidswhose dads worked on cars their
whole life.
They want to go to trade schoolfor auto mechanics.
But you have to be really goodat computers and math now to do
that and these kids typicallyaren't good at that.

(07:34):
They're good at working withtheir hands.
So yeah, it is weird.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
It's crazy, because now they just want you to trade
it in on something new.
Yeah, because they get moremoney for used cars.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
They get more profit from used cars than it's crazy.
It's just because now they justwant you to trade it in on
something new, or they don't.
Yeah, because they get moremoney for used cars than they.
Get more profit from used carsthan they get from new cars.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
They fix whatever's wrong with it at their own cost,
and then they'll put it rightback out.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yep and sell it for twice as much as they gave you
for it.
Yeah, good times.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Man, we sound like cranky old ladies today.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
It's cloudy out, guys , it is.
Yeah, the cows warned me on theway down that it wasn't going
to be good.
It's windy, I feel like a dogturd.
I did drink a chocolatemilkshake on the way down.
Well, that might be it.
It was yummy, though I bet.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Before we dive in, we want to take a moment to
acknowledge that September isSuicide Prevention Awareness
Month.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
And we especially want to speak directly to our
LGBTQ plus listeners, becausethis year the 988 Lifeline
removed its dedicated LGBTQ plussupport option, which is not
just disappointing, it'sdangerous.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
So here's the deal If you're struggling, you are not
alone.
The 988 Suicide and CrisisLifeline is still available 24-7
.
Just dial or text 988 for freeconfidential support from
trained counselors.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
And if you're LGBTQ plus and want to talk to someone
who gets it, the Trevor Projectis here for you.
You can call 1-866-488-7386,text START to 678678, or visit
the Trevor Projects ResourceCenter for chat and support.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
We'll link both in the show notes.
You matter, you're loved andwe're so damn glad you're here.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
All right.
So before we jump into thisweek, I would like to ask you to
like share rate review, Please,Anywhere that you listen or
look us up on socials, ortalking to your friends,
anything Just come on, we havestickers now, guys.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
So if you want a, sticker you got to email us.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, if you email us , we'll send you a sticker.
Hell, yeah, yeah, yeah, if youemail us, we'll send you a
sticker.
Hell yeah, yeah, definitely.
Or message on socials.
Yeah, heather typically handlesthe emails and I handle the
socials, so she works for thepost office, so you'll probably
get it quicker.
For if you email, you can findus.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, follow us on all the socials

(10:09):
at LikeWhateverPod, and we areon YouTube at LikeWhatever, and
you can send an email toLikeWhateverPod at gmailcom.
Yep, so anyway to this week.
I've picked a topic that I havewanted to do for a while.
I didn't really do it exactlythe way I wanted to, but it's

(10:31):
kind of the way it went.
But let's fuck around and findout about fairy tales versus
Disney movies.
Disney's great and all, but Iwant to hear the grotesque
origins.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
I know most of these and I know that they are dark.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, there is one that I for, as much as I am
fascinated with this stuff, Idid not know this one part of it
.
The Little Mermaid no, it'sSleeping Beauty.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
I mean that's problematic to begin with.
Anyway, now to begin withanyway now.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, you just wait, all right.
So this week I get myinformation from
CulturaColectivacom.
When I saw that I reallythought it was going to be in
Spanish, but I mean the ads were, but it was in English, thank
goodness, because I got goodinfo from it.
Thevintagenewscom,everythingexplainedtodaycom and
PopSugarcom Did not use anyWikipedia this week.

(11:29):
Go me All right.
Let's start with something youmight not know the version of
Snow White.
Most of us grew up with appledwarves, glass, coffin and all
has been much older and darkerroots than Disney ever let on.
The story, like many classicfairy tales, comes from a long
tradition of myths, legends andfolk tales that people in

(11:52):
Germany and across Europe passeddown for centuries, long before
anyone thought to write themdown.
And these stories weren'toriginally meant for kids.
They were more like the Netflixdramas of the time, full of
jealousy, danger, death, magicand the occasional moral gut

(12:13):
punch.
Pre-1800s, people didn't reallyseparate stories into neat
categories like myth or folklore.
You had tales about gods, whichwere myths, stories of old
heroes who may or may not haveactually lived, which are
legends, and the more everydaymysterious stuff that people
just believed in, like forestspirits, witches, cursed places
and enchanted.
Everyday, mysterious stuff thatpeople just believed in, like
forest spirits, witches, cursedplaces and enchanted animals,
which is folklore.
These were passed down aroundin villages, by the fire at the

(12:37):
market over generations.
Some were cautionary.
Others explained why the worldwas the way it was, but they
were all part of how people madesense of things.
A lot of these stories had veryspecific local roots.
That's why you'll hear abouthaunted trees in one forest or a
girl who vanished into amountain in another.

(12:57):
But what's wild is that thecore of these stories, the
themes, are super universal.
Different versions ofCinderella, for example, show up
in places as far apart as india, china and ireland interesting
I always wanted the um, thelittle mice in cinderella,
because they they made her adress and they did I like that?

(13:21):
yeah, I can't sew, so I needmice to do it for me yeah, and
doing this research, like Iwould like like pick a Disney
movie that was really famouswhen we were kids and still are,
but for us I mean now kids haveso much to watch, but for Gen X
that was a big, big source ofentertainment for us and I mean

(13:42):
you could just talk for daysabout one of them.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
All the different stories from different areas and
different times, right, so Iknow, do you remember that
disney movies you could only getcertain times they would only
release them like on now.
I mean, you got all of it andanytime you want, but back then
you had to wait till disneyreleased, and then when they

(14:06):
released, it was it they onlyreleased it for a couple weeks
for you to buy it on DVD.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
And then it wasn't like 20 years it got put away
again before they'd release itagain, put them in the vault.
Yeah, yeah, I do remember that.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
And then you know, it makes total sense.
I mean, nobody is better athyping shit up for their own
self than Disney.
True that Nobody is better thancreating supply and demand than
Disney, and you know.
So they got that going for them.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, now they're just doing a channel and they
just buy up all the otherchannels.
So everything you want to watch, you have to have Disney.
Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm weretwo german academics who lived
in the early 1800s, during atime when germany wasn't yet a
unified country and napoleon wasmarching across europe.

(14:58):
The grims believed that if theycould collect and preserve
these old folk stories, they'dbe saving a kind of cultural
soul, something that all Germans, no matter what region they
came from, could share.
They weren't the only onesdoing this, but they were the
most influential.
They started asking around,especially women who were known
for being the keepers of oralstories.

(15:20):
One of their biggest sourceswas a woman named Dorothea
Weimann, who came from a familyof French Huguenots but lived in
Hesse, Germany.
It's probably just Hesse, HesseGermany, Hesse, Germany.
Her stories were so good,cohesive, vivid, consistent that

(15:43):
the Grimm's ended up using alot of them.
But here's the twist the firstversions of the Grimms
children's and household taleswere not kid-friendly.
We're talking cannibalism,torture, burning shoes, death by
red hot iron.
The stories were raw andintense, closer to what you'd
hear in a tavern than in anursery.

(16:04):
Over time, the Grimms editedthe stories, softening the
violence, making them more moraland adding Christian overtones.
We just can't leave the.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Christian overtones out of anything.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I know it's so invasive.
They even started swapping outevil mothers for evil
stepmothers, probably becausethe idea of a cruel mother felt
too disturbing for the growingmiddle class readership.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
You know, I have a stepdaughter and I demand that
she calls me step monster.
And she does.
She even addresses cards andstuff as her step monster.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Probably just hit too close to home saying that the
mothers were evil, but maybethat's my personal story.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
But, anyway.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
So Snow White as we know, her first appearance in
the Grimm's collection in 1812.
But pieces of her story hadalready existed in German
folklore for a long time, inGerman folklore for a long time.
There's even an earlierliterary version from 1782
called Reicheld, which focusesmore on the evil queen's vanity

(17:15):
and the magic mirror.
And the story of Snow White'sactually what got me started on.
I mean, I've wanted to do thistopic for a while but I watched
a lot of the like HistoryChannel, discovery Channel stuff
and I can't.
Maybe mysteries at the museum,I don't know.
But they think Snow White mayhave been a real person actually
.
Oh Yep, but we'll get to that.

(17:38):
But that's what got me startedon this week and wanting to do
this.
It starts as all good fairytales do, in the winter.
A queen is sitting by a windowsewing.
She pricks her finger and threedrops of blood fall onto the
snow on her ebony windowsill.
The sight is so striking red onwhite on black that she

(17:58):
whispers a wish I want a childwith skin as white as snow, lips
as red as blood and hair asblack as ebony.
And eventually she gets herwish.
Names the baby snow white.
But the queen died.
Soon after bummer, the newqueen takes her place, a
beautiful but deeply vain womanwith a magical mirror that tells

(18:18):
her she's the fairest of themall.
Until one day it doesn't.
The mirror named snow white.
Instead, enraged, the queensends a huntsman to kill the
girl and bring back her lungsand liver as proof.
The huntsman why her liver?

Speaker 3 (18:33):
I get the lungs Like why not her heart?

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Her head.
I thought you always broughtheads back, that's true.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
How do you prove it's ?
They were big on beheadingpeople then, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
And why do they call it beheading and not deheading,
unheading, unheading.
The huntsman can't do it.
Snow White is just a child, sohe lets her go and brings back
the organs of a wild animal.
Instead, the queen cooks andeats them, thinking they're Snow
Whites.
Maybe that's why she wantedlungs and liver.
Maybe she liked lungs and liverand she knew she was going to
eat them.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Maybe I mean like a rump roast, probably would be
better yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
And bring me her buttocks.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Bring me the good cut On the ribs.
Bring me some ribs and barbecuesauce.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
There we go, yeah, meanwhile, snow White Jeffrey.
Dahmer of her A lot of JeffreyDahmers in ancient fairy tales.
Meanwhile, snow White fleesdeep into the forest and finds a
tiny cottage where she meetsseven dwarfs.
They agree to let her stay ifshe cooks and cleans and doesn't
open the door to anyone.

(19:40):
That's creepy, it is.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Like you can stay here, but you have to be our
slave, don't you open thatfucking door.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
You have to be our slave and no one's allowed to
know you're here.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
Puts the lotion in the basket or it gets the hose
again.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Hey, she had a roof over her head.
What are you going to do?
All right, but the queenfigures out she's still alive.
And here's where it gets extrafolkloric.
She tries to kill Snow Whitethree times First with a tight
corset that cuts off her hair,then with a poisoned Been there,
then with a poisoned comb Idon't understand how that works,

(20:15):
I know and finally with apoisoned apple One half harmless
, one half deadly.
The third time works.
Snow White falls seemingly dead.
The dwarfs can't bear to buryher, so they place her in a
glass coffin in the forest whereshe lies for a long time.
Snow White falls seemingly dead.
The dwarfs can't bear to buryher, so they place her in a
glass coffin in the forest whereshe lies for a long time,
unchanging and preserved, that'salso weird.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah, I mean you would think like decay is going
to happen if she's dead.
And if she's not dead, you'renot feeding her.
What is happening?

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, she's in a coma , that's what it's called.
They didn't know what comaswere back then.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
They live in the forest.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Eventually, a prince comes by, sees her and instantly
falls in love with her, despiteher being dead, and asks the
dwarves if he can take her withhim.
Hey, can I take that dead girlover there?
I think I love her.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
And that's how necrophilia happens, kids.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
As his servants carry the coffin away which they
couldn't bear to bury her, butthey're just going to hand her
over to some random guy thatcomes around.
Sure, go ahead, I can.
We're sick of looking at her.
Looking at her.
Comes around, sure, go ahead.
Okay, we're sick of looking atit.
As they take the coffin away,they stumble, dislodging uh the
piece of poisoned apple from herthroat and she wakes up.
See, she was choking the entiretime.

(21:38):
The prince proposes on the spotand snow white says yes well.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
So that is a little different, because in the disney
movie he kisses her, so that's,and that's, that's way creepy
like uh-huh, uh-huh, I mean fall.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I can't wait to get to some of the other creepy
stuff pretty much all creepy inthis one and I don't know if her
yes to that proposal wouldstand up in court, because she
had just been in a coma for howlong, like she probably didn't
know what she was saying Girl,you can get an annulment on that
one.
All right.
The queen is invited to thewedding, not knowing whose it is

(22:17):
.
When she arrives and sees SnowWhite alive, she's forced to
dance in red, hot iron shoesuntil she dies.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
That's random, all right.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, I don't really know how you're dancing when you
have red, hot iron shoes onyour feet.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Why would you bother to dance Like, yeah, you're
gonna die anyway?

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Why did they invite her yeah?
That's a good question too,because snow white doesn't know
who she is anymore, becauseshe's she was choking, for she
had lacked so much oxygen shehas amnesia I mean I would
probably say yes to the princeproposal too, if I have been
living in a cabin in the woodsand had to do all the cooking
and cleaning and can't open thedoor, and and he comes along and

(23:06):
is like hey, you want to golive in this castle?

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Lesser to evils.
Yeah, yeah, All right.
So every image is packed withsymbolism Blood on snow,
enchanted mirrors, poisonedfruit, death and rebirth.
It's a story about envy,survival, innocence and the long
, strange journey from childhoodto power.
So now was Snow White a realperson?

(23:31):
And I feel like I did a lot ofresearch and I couldn't.
I feel like what I heard on TVwas more informative than what I
found, but maybe not.
Maybe I just blew it up in myhead, but anyway, maybe it's
better than I think.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
I don't know, I do it all the time, yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
All right.
So here's where it gets, evenjuicier.
In 1994, a german historiannamed eckhard sander suggested
that snow white might have beenbased on a real woman, margaret
von veldeck, a countess born in1533.
At 16, margaret was sent awayby her stepmother to live in

(24:12):
Brussels, where she fell in lovewith a prince who would later
become Philip II of Spain.
Her parents weren't exactlythrilled.
The match was politicallyinconvenient, and then she
mysteriously died at 21,poisoned.
And as far as the dwarfs, thisis dark because Margaret's

(24:36):
father owned copper mines wherechildren worked in horrific
conditions.
The surviving kids were oftenstunted, deformed and referred
to as poor dwarfs.
Oh yeah, so watch Snow Whiteagain and think about poor,
deformed children, yes, abusedchildren.
Nice, see how much fun it isthen.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Then hi-ho.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Even the poisoned apple might be grounded in real
events.
A man in the region was oncearrested for handing out
poisoned apples to children whostole from his orchard Fucking
kids Fair enough.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Hey, don't steal apples from the orchard, you
little bastards.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Go back into the mine .
I don't care if you're starving.
God Damn it Fucking kids.
I mean, have you ever seen howmany apples a tree produces?

Speaker 3 (25:24):
You can spare a handful of kids grabbing an
apple, not if you're an old man.
It's a lot um which wasprobably like 30 at the time all
right.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
So another contender as possibly being the real snow
white is maria sofia von earthel, born in 1729 in lorbe area.
Her story also includes anot-so-nice stepmother and a
family castle with a talkingmirror.
Not magical, but an acousticalnovelty that could project sound
, crafted by a local mirrorfactory.

(25:57):
Huh, mm-hmm Technology, I know1522.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
There's more.
Oh no, that was 1729.
My bad, Really not muchdifferent.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
No, just outside Lour is a mining town called Bieber,
not.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Justin, not Bieber.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Set among seven hills .
The tunnels were so small thatonly very short workers could
fit.
Many of them wore bright hoodedclothing.
Sounds familiar, right, jockeys?
Exactly, even the glass coffinmight connect to the region's
famous glassworks.
The deadly nightshade growswild in the area.

(26:37):
So maybe Snow White is partMargaret, part Maria Sophia, or
maybe she's a little bit ofevery girl whose story got
folded into the folklore alongthe way.
That's what folktales do.
Fairy tales are never just whatthey seem.

(26:58):
You can read Snow White as asimple story about good
triumphing over evil, but onceyou peel back the layers it's a
web of symbolism, coded messagesabout human nature growing up,
danger, purity and power.
Uh, here's a closer look atwhat some of those elements
might really mean.
The apple is one of the oldestsymbols in mythology and

(27:21):
religious imagery.
Think back to eve in the gardenof eden goddamn Eve eating a
motherfucking apple.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Damn it, bitch.
All our problems would not havegone away if she didn't want
some damn apple.
Yeah, god forbid, she washungry.
I don't even like apples.
Any other fruit Eve, any otherfruit.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
In Snow White, the poisoned apple is the final trap
.
And it's not just any poison,it's hidden inside beauty.
That's the key.
It represents temptation, butalso deception.
Something can look shiny,perfect, delicious, but it may
carry danger deep inside.
It's the classic, too good tobe true moment.
Some scholars argue it's aboutgrowing up, that bittersweet

(28:13):
moment when innocence meetsdanger and you can't uneat the
apple I didn't get like.
Innocence meets danger.
Is that what growing up is?

Speaker 3 (28:18):
I mean In some cases, I suppose I think stranger
danger would be like right inthat wheelhouse.
I have some puppies for you.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
That's danger.
Once you've tasted betrayal ordesire, you can't go back.
True story historian mariatater, who has written
extensively on the grimes andfairy tales, suggests the
poisoned apple marks theboundary between childhood and
adulthood, between naive trustand the knowledge that not
everything is what it seems.

(28:54):
Wasn't that a bummer when wefigured all that out?
In the Disney version thedwarves are named Sleepy Dopey,
grumpy, doc and so on, but inthe Grimm version they're
anonymous.
Even so, the number seven isdeeply symbolic.
It's the number of completenessin many traditions seven days
of the week, seven deadly sins,seven virtues.

(29:19):
In that sense the dwarfs can beseen as representing different
facets of the human psyche oreven different emotional
responses to hardship, joy, fear, anger, detachment, etc.
They also serve a practicalrole.
They give Snow White shelter,fear, anger, detachment, etc.
They also serve a practicalrole.
They give Snow White shelter,protection and a sort of
surrogate family slash master.
But they're also transitionalfigures, not quite children, not
quite adults, not quite magical, not quite human.

(29:42):
In Jungian Jungian, jungianJungian In Jungian psychology.
See, I studied psychology, youwould think I would know that.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
What's his name?
It's.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Carl Jung, right, oh yeah, they could even be seen as
archetypes, fragments of theself that support transformation
.
Snow White has to move throughtheir world before she can find
her own, has to move throughtheir world before she can find
her own.
The image of Snow White lyingin the glass coffin in the
middle of the forest is one ofthe most haunting parts of the

(30:14):
story.
She's not dead exactly, butshe's not alive either.
It's the strange in-betweenspace.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
Schrodinger's Snow White.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
The glass coffin is a symbol of suspended time.
It preserved her purity butalso traps her.
She becomes an object, lookedat but untouched.
It's often interpreted as acritique of how female beauty is
idolized and frozen in time.
The story doesn't end until theprince comes and breaks the
stasis.
Some literary critics point outthat the part of the story

(30:47):
reflects a kind of ritual deathand rebirth, a symbolic
transformation that has tohappen before Snow White can
truly become a woman withautonomy and power.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
I mean I don't think women had autonomy back then.
No, it's the 1700s Shit.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
it's 2025 and we don't have autonomy.
Exactly One of the first linesin Grimm's version is iconic the
queen pricks her finger andsees three colors red, white and
black.
These aren't random.
These are symbolic anchors thatshow up again and again in
European folklore.
Red stands for life, blood,desire and passion.

(31:23):
White is innocence, purity,virginity, but also stillness,
snow and coldness.
And black is death, mystery.
Death mystery, evil and theunconscious, which is why
heather likes black the best.
Yeah, together, these threecolors map out the entire
emotional landscape of the story.
Snow white herself embodies allthree.

(31:43):
She is the innocent, which isthe white color, who faces
danger and death, which is black, but ultimately reclaims life
and passion, which is red.
It's a symbolic transformationfrom child to adult, light to
dark and back again.
We don't always walk aroundanalyzing color palettes or
dreaming of poisoned apples, butthese symbols still speak to us

(32:05):
.
They show up in art, books,movies, even our language.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
You might not dream about poisoned apples.
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Speaker 2 (32:44):
All right, so next we are going to move on to the
beautiful, magical little storyof Cinderella.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Cinderella Justin Yellow, so Cinderella uh, so
cinderella.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
The disney version comes from a brother's grim, um
fairy tale called the little ashgirl.
Uh, it starts out as you wouldexpect the mother dies, father
remarries.
Um, oh, this name yeah, I was.
I looked it up even I'm gonnasay ashen poodle, okay, because

(33:19):
it's fun.
Uh, becomes a servant.
Which ashen poodle is?
The little ash girl.
I'm gonna call her ash.
There you go, there we go.
Ash becomes a servant, butremains good and kind.
When the father goes on ajourney, the stepsisters demand
costly gifts, while ash asksonly for the first twig to knock

(33:41):
his hat off.
She plants this on her mother'sgrave and a hazel tree grows.
I don't think that's how treesgrow, but anyway, ash prays
beneath the tree and a whitebird throws down to her whatever
she wishes for, I'm going tofind this white bird?

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I got a lot of wishes.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Next time you get a twig in your bonnet, give it to
me so we can plant that tree.
I got to get a bonnet.
She does wear bonnets.
No, she doesn't.
All right, this story providesus with our first glimpse of
animal helpers, an element thatbecame such a mainstream for
Disney cartoons.
When Ash asked to go to theball, the stepmother throws some

(34:28):
lentils into the ashes anddeclares that she can only go to
the mall if she cleans them upin two hours.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
I mean, how many Wait a second?
She threw lentils into the fire, into the ashes.
Okay, but can't you just scoopall that up and be like ta-da,
Like why is lentils?
I don't get it, I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I don't get it either .
And how many lentils was it?
And did they really have aconcept of two hours back then
for her to like she didn't havea stopwatch to time her?
Well, I guess, when the sand oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the sand too
.
I forgot about that.
All right, ash does so with thehelp of some doves and pigeons
that come when she sings.
Of course, she's still notallowed to go to the ball, even

(35:12):
when she cleans up.
Another lentil spillage, justsome serious spillage with the
lentils.
This lady needs a bettercontainer for her lentils.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Buy some Tupperware.
It burps.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
In the Grimm's version, the prince hosts three
balls and the hazel treeprovides Ash with three ever
more beautiful dresses to attendeach one.
Now you really need the tree togive you pretty ball dresses.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Something I like more than a pretty ball dress.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
It is true.
But after that things start totake a dark turn.
When the prince visits thehouse with the slipper for the
daughters to try on, the eldestgoes first.
The eldest went with the shoeinto her room and wanted to try
it on, but her mother stood by.
But she could not get her bigtoe into it and the shoe was too
small for her.
Then her mother gave her aknife and said cut the toe off

(36:06):
when thou art, queen, thou wilthave no more need to go on foot.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Look, I am not going to lie.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I have seriously considered cutting my toes off
for a pair of shoes, and I'm notkidding, I know, I'm not joking
, but back then, I mean,gangrene would have been for
sure again yeah, the rightfucking shoe.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
you know, because they have, I have big feet, we
are cursed with big feet, wehave big feet and they don't
have cute shoes and big foot,they, they don't.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
They don't, and shoes that look cute aren't cute
anymore when you get them to oursize.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
No, Well, they look like clown shoes.
Yeah, exactly.
So if I can cut my toes off andhave smaller feet, then I can
wear cute shoes.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
So the maiden cut off her toe, forced the foot into
the shoes, swollen with pain,and went out to the king's son.
Then he took her on his horseas his bride and rode away with
her.
This dastardly scheme mighthave worked if it wasn't for the
fact that the pair rode pastthe grave of Ash's mother.
Two birds rose up from thehazel tree and told the prince

(37:12):
to look at the blood drippingfrom his bride's shoe.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Were they pigeons?
Because they're rats.
Yeah, exactly they're like yoCheck out her shoe, yo bro.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
When it is time for the second sister to try on the
shoe, her mother instructs herto cut off a bit of her heel so
it will fit.
Although the girl does so, thebirds betray her again.
When Ash is finally on theprince's horse and heading for
the palace, the two birds flydown to sit on her shoulders
like hey, it's this one dude.
In grim's version, ash, happilyever after, comes with a hefty

(37:53):
dose of vengeance.
In a coda that was included inthe second edition that was
published in 1819, the twostepsisters turned up at the
wedding and tried to worm theirway into Ash's good favor.
When the betrothed couple wentto church, the elder was at the
right side and younger at theleft, and those pesky pigeons
again pecked out one eye of eachof them Afterwards as they came

(38:14):
back.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
The elder was at the left and the younger at the
right and the pigeons pecked outone eye of each of them.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Oh rats.
Afterwards, as they came back,the elder was at the left and
the younger at the right, andthe pigeons pecked out the other
eyes.
That's smart.
Those girls were smart, andthus, for their wickedness and
falsehood, they were punishedwith blindness as long as they
lived.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Okay, also, like I get it that you're pissed off at
these two, but then'll just sitthere and watch while birds
peck out their eyes At yourwedding, yeah.
And then they move sides sothere's blood running out of the
pecked out side and they'relike, hey, let's just switch
sides, and then the birds comeagain and pick it and you just,
anybody object here.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Well, apparently they're just oblivious to blood,
because the one sister camehobbling out with her toe cut
off, rammed into a shoe thatdoesn't fit her, and the prince
was like, hey, let's go, andthrew her on the horse and
headed out.
So, man, not very observant,sounds like all right.
Yeah, so that was.
That was the story ofcinderella.
Uh, I went into the most depthwith snow white because that was

(39:13):
the one I was fascinated with.
But, right, whoo, this sleepingbeauty one.
It's pretty crazy.
Yeah, it's also problematic.
It is.
Yeah, we should probably do aTrigger warning.
Yeah, yeah, we should.
Sexual assault yeah, of course.
So anyway.
So Sleeping Beauty comes from afairy tale that was called sun,

(39:37):
moon and talia um, after thebirth of a great lord's daughter
, talia, wise men andastrologers cast the child's
horoscope and predicted thattalia would be endangered by a
splinter of flax.
To protect his daughter, thefather commanded that no flax

(39:57):
would ever be brought into hishouse.
Years later, talia sees an oldman spinning flax on a spindle.
She asked the woman if she canstretch the flax herself.
But as soon as she begins tospin, a splinter of flax gets
stuck under her fingernail,which just sounds so painful, uh
, and she collapses in sleep.
Unable to stand the thought ofburying his daughter, talia's

(40:20):
father puts his daughter in oneof his country estates.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
They got a real issue with burying people.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, yeah, don't let it go.
I mean, they had to have gottenstinky real quick back then,
although they were frozen intime, apparently.
So sometime later, here we go,although they were frozen in
time, apparently.
Sometime later, here we go.
A king who is out hunting inthe nearby woodlands follows his
falcon into the house.

(40:46):
He finds Talia, overcome withher beauty.
He tries, unsuccessfully, towake her and then, crying aloud,
he beheld her charms and felthis blood course hotly through
his veins, if you know what I'msaying.
He lifted her in his arms andcarried her to a bed where he

(41:08):
gathered the first fruits oflove.
So those are all really prettywords to say.
He raped her.
Afterwards he leaves her on thebed, typical, and returns to
his own city.
Talia becomes pregnant andafter nine months, while still
deeply asleep, gives birth totwins, a boy and a girl.
Y'all didn't know Cinderellawas about this, did ya?

Speaker 3 (41:28):
No wait or Sleeping.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Beauty, sleeping Beauty.
I meant, yeah, one day the girlcannot find her mother's breast
.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Instead she begins to suck her finger and draws the
flax splinter out.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
So nobody thought about trying to pull the
splinter out.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Nobody was like wait, I bet there's a hold on.
Somebody said she was gonna geta splinter and die and now
she's dead.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
So maybe if we check the splinter situation, well, I
mean, she wasn't dead becauseshe did become pregnant by rape.
Well, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
She was in a coma, I guess.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yeah, it's still blowing my mind to read this,
Like how I don't know People aresick.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
People have always been sick.
Good thing we have science now.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Anyway, talia awakens immediately and names her
beloved children, sun and Moon,and lives with them in the house
.
The king returns to find Taliaawake, revealing to her that he
is the father because he rapedher to her twin children.
The two fall in love.
However, the king is alreadymarried, shocker and one night

(42:38):
he calls out the names ofTalia's son and moon in his
sleep.
His wife, the queen, hears himand forces the king's secretary
to tell her everything and then,using a forged message, has
Talia's children brought tocourt.
She orders the cook to kill thechildren and serve them to the
king.
Really, have a thing about it.
Lots of Jeffrey Dahmer's, uh.

(43:00):
But the cook hides them.
Uh, I think I actually readsomewhere else that he took him
to his wife and they took careof him.
Um, but anyway, not that thisstory is true.
But uh, the cook hides them andgoes on to cook two lambs
instead.
The queen taunts the king whilehe eats the meal, unaware of
the cook's exchange.
Then the queen brings Talia tocourt.

(43:22):
She commands that a huge firebe lit in the courtyard and that
Talia be thrown into the flames.
Talia asks the queen to allowher to take off her fine
garments first.
The queen agrees.
Talia undresses and uttersscreams of grief with each piece
of clothing.
The king hears Talia's screamsand goes to her, where his wife

(43:43):
tells him that Talia will beburned and that he has
unknowingly eaten his ownchildren.
The king Jokes on you.
The king, realizing all theruse, commands that his wife,
his, his secretary and the cookbe thrown into the fire instead.
But the cook explains how hehad saved sun and moon and fed
the king two lambs instead taliaand the king mary, and the cook

(44:06):
is promoted to royalchamberlain whoa bro, I didn't
cook.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
No kids see, it was a happy ending anyway, it was
lamb the cook.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Happy ending for the cook.
Ending anyway, it was lamb thecook.
Happy ending for the cook.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
I know it's so ridiculous All right, I think
this is my last one and it'syour favorite.
It is my favorite when theywalk, where they run.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I'm not getting sued by Disney when in the sun they
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therapy is expensive and thistastes better, all right, so,
little Mermaid, you've likelyheard the story of the Little
Mermaid many times before and,by the way, when you were
talking about the releases, Ihave a memory, and I don't know

(45:40):
if it's correct Didn't you ownthe Little Mermaid with the
phallus castle?
Yes, you don't still have it,do you?
No, I don't.
Yeah, that was pretty crazy,because I know it was real,
because you had it, I saw it.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
I did have it because the Little Mermaid is my second
favorite.
Disney movie.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Next to oh yeah, I don't think about that being
Disney.
I forget, I know.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
I think of Tim Burton , everybody forgets All right.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
It begins with a mermaid longing to explore the
human world, a longing thatintensifies when she falls in
love with a prince.
She then exchanges her voicewith a sea witch for the
opportunity to become human, andthough the sea witch nearly
ruins everything, ultimately themermaid gets her happily ever
after.
So that's the fun story, that'sthe good stuff.
Actually, the Little Mermaidstory most of us know and love

(46:37):
is a rewrite of a much older,much bloodier fairy tale.
In 1837, danish writer HansChristian Andersen penned the
original the Little Mermaid.
It begins similarly to Disney'sfamiliar version, starting out
by focusing on a mermaid longingto be with a prince whom she
can't reach.
But in Andersen's version, themermaid's trade with the sea

(46:59):
witch requires a bit more thanher voice.
Instead, the sea witch cuts outthe mermaid's tongue and gives
her a pair of legs, though shewarns her that every step she
takes will feel like walking onknives.
The sea witch also gives themermaid a terrible ultimatum,
telling her that if the princemarries someone else, she'll die
the morning after the wedding.
Uh, anderson's version alsodoesn't exactly have the fairy

(47:24):
tale ending we're used to.
In his story, the prince fallsin love with another woman and
the mermaid prepares to die.
Then, on her last night alive,her mermaid sisters come to her
and say they've bargained withthe sea witch and sold their
hair in exchange for a magicknife.
But there's a catch in order toalways, in order to survive, the

(47:45):
mermaid has to use the knife tokill the prince.
Devastated, the mermaid choosesto sacrifice herself instead,
which just shows how dumb womenare sometimes Like seriously, he
chose another woman.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
You were right there, move on Exactly.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
She jumps into the sea and by the morning she's
nothing more than seafoam.
Wow, still after her death, themermaid meets mysterious
airborne beings that tell herthat her selflessness means that
she has a chance to attain animmortal soul.
If she uses her next 300-yearlifespan in the spirit world for

(48:24):
good deeds, they tell her,she'll be welcomed into heaven.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Ain't that the way it always is.
Fuck that.
Yeah, just send me to heaven,I'll stay as seafoam, thanks.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
There you go.
Exactly, that's nothing bad, no.
Stay as seafoam, thanks.
There you go.
Exactly, that's nothing bad, no.
Intriguingly, the tragic talemay have been inspired by
Anderson's real-life heartbreak.
Just before Anderson wrote theLittle Mermaid, he learned that
his longtime friend, edwardColin, was engaged to a woman.
For years, anderson had beenwriting Colin letters that

(48:59):
expressed romantic feelingstowards him.
I languish for you as a prettyCalabrian wench.
My sentiments for you are thoseof a woman Anderson wrote in
one letter the femininity of mynature and our friendship must
remain a mystery.
Through that lens, anderson'sstory can be read as a metaphor

(49:20):
for suppressed queer desire.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah, yeah, I never heard where they walk up, where
they run, yeah, where they stayall day in the sun.
I want to be where the peopleare.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
I mean, you know who ursula is modeled after, right,
I feel like I read that becauseI read a lot of stuff and I was
trying to find, like the storiesI like the best.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Divine.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Oh, mm, hmm.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, mm hmm, all right.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
So why do we tell these stories?
If you think about it, folktales are one of the oldest
tools we have for understandingthe world.
Long before we had schools,science or therapy, we had
stories.
They were how people passed onknowledge, warned each other
about danger, tried to explaindeath and love and fear and joy,
and how they made sense of whatcouldn't be controlled.

(50:19):
Folktales are kind of like thecollective diary of a community.
You can read a story andimmediately get a feel for what
a society valued or feared In atime when famine was real and
kids didn't always make it toadulthood.
It makes sense that so manystories are about hunger,
survival and abandonment, or whyforests are scary, magical

(50:41):
places, because in medievalEurope they were.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
I think they still are.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Yeah, they were full of wolves, bandits and the
unknown.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
I think they still are.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
So stories didn't just entertain, they help people
prepare.
And that reminded me that onestory that I didn't do because
there are just so many versionsof it and I just couldn't make
it work Hansel and Gretel.
Yeah, like that story is crazy.
Yes, and it took place during afamine, so people were

(51:15):
literally abandoning theirchildren eating their own
children.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
I think that is based on a true story, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (51:20):
it is similar it is it is based on and I, like I
said, I read a lot about it andI have a terrible memory so I
don't remember exactly when, butthere is a specific period in
time where there was a famine.
I want to say it was like the1200s, it was like a long time
ago and, um, that really washappening.
Like Like people had to makethat choice, like I read that
like older people were starvingto death so the younger people

(51:44):
could have the food.
Literally, mothers were eatingtheir children, they were
abandoning them in the woods,all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Yeah, I think I want to say the last podcast on the
left did an episode about thereal life Hansel and Gretel
Podcast on the.
Left did an episode about thereal life Hansel and Gretel.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yep, but everything's so oldand there are so many stories.
Right, it was just or I couldhave done like you said.
They did an entire episode juston that, I think they did.
They also reinforce socialvalues, which I don't see any
social values pretty much in anyof these.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
No, well, I mean maybe at the time.
I don't see any social valuespretty much in any of these.
No Well, I mean maybe at thetime, really no.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Okay, think of how many fairy tales reward kindness
, cleverness or humility,no-transcript rape yeah, so,
yeah, um, and punish the greedor cruelty.

(52:45):
These weren't random.
They were ways of shapingbehavior in a world where
religion and custom often ruleddaily life, and they weren't
just for kids either.
Folk tales were shared aroundfires, in markets, at weddings,
funerals, over harvest.
They help people bond, reflect,laugh and sometimes even grieve
.
In times of instability, war,poverty, migration, stories

(53:10):
became a form of resilience,something you could carry with
you, something no one could take, a portable piece of identity.
That's what made them powerful,and you know what this reminds
me of.
This is how the Bible waswritten.
But I digress Seriously it'sall folklore that was just

(53:35):
passed down around fires.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
I'm not disagreeing with you, I know.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Sorry, I have the right.
I was tortured in the churchfor I didn't say anything.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
I agree with you 100% .
It's all made up the right.
I was tortured in the church, Iagree with you All made up All
right.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
So in the end, snow White, like so many folk tales,
is more than just an old storywith a poisoned apple and a
prince.
It's a mirror of the world.
That made it A little fragmentof memory passed from mouth to
mouth, reshaped by the peoplewho needed it most.
Once it was told in hushedvoices by firelight.
Now it's played out on screens,rewritten in books, reimagined

(54:09):
through animation, art, film,tiktokers and memes, and still
it survives.
That's the thing aboutfolktales they were never meant
to stay the same.
They evolve because we evolvethe same way.
Oral tradition, once adapted tothe needs of a community
offering comfort, warnings,laughter or identity, our modern
retellings do something similar.

(54:32):
They stretch the stories tospeak to our time.
Sometimes we give the princemore agency, sometimes we
question the prince, sometimesthe stepmother isn't evil, just
misunderstood, and every versiontells us something about who we
are now.
But the core stays the fear,the beauty, the hunger, the
danger, the fear or the hope.

(54:52):
Let me do that again.
But the core stays the fear,the beauty, the hunger, the
danger, the hope.
It's all still there, dressedup in new clothes, because we
still need stories that help usmake sense of the world.
We're still there, dressed upin new clothes, because we still
need stories that help us makesense of the world.
We still need myths and magicand moral questions and dark

(55:13):
forest and unlikely heroes.
Folk tales are proof thatmemory doesn't just live in
history books.
It lives in stories, and aslong as we keep telling them
around tables, in classrooms,through poems and movies and
bedtime whispers, they'll keepgrowing with us.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Yeah.
So some of you may be wondering, like, how is this Gen X?
But seriously, we grew up andreally what I would love to do
is there are just so many, andeven if it's just a little rhyme
, like Ring Around the Posies,is about the Black Death,
exactly so.
There's just so much of thatunder all the things that we

(55:50):
still know all the words to,because that's what we did back
then.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
All of them, I mean we Willy Winky.
And that's creepy, because he'speering in the windows and
crying through the locks.
It's weird.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Yeah, there's so many of them and it's fun to go back
as an adult now.
And another thing I realizedthrough this that you might be
interested in, heather, is oneof my Google searches just
trying to do broad searches wasdark fairy tales for adults.
Thinking that it would tell melike those, but they're actually
new fairy tales for adults.

(56:26):
Thinking that it would tell melike those, but they're actually
new fairy tales that have beenmade for adults.
Like it and Art the Clown.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
I hadn't heard of any of them, because clowns are
creepy.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
They are Especially John Wayne Gacy.
He's been popping up lately.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
I know.
I wonder what's up with that.
I I wonder what's up with that.
I don't know.
What is that?
I don't know.
I do know that the new um oh,what the hell is that?
Show Monsters what they did.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yes, where they do, yeah, specific yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
The one about Ed Gein , the one, the thing they did,
like Jeffrey Dahmer, uh-huh,yeah, they did the one, and it's
the guy from Sons of Anarchy.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yes, that's what it was.
Yes.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
That comes out October 3rd, by the way, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
I'm excited.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
We had to look it up because I could not, for the
life of me, remember.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
I know, look it up, because I could not for the life
of me remember.
I know I'm sitting over herelike peg from, married with
children, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (57:26):
I know?
we have, yeah, we're getting old, we can't help it no my, I was
never a big fan of the oldercartoons.
I think, like I, my sisterabsolutely loves Cinderella.
She wanted to have she almostgot to have the Cinderella

(57:50):
wedding.
She was supposed to get marriedin Disney World and you can get
the glass coach and she waslike fully on board on that.
And it's hilarious because mysister is not that kind of
person, but it is what she hasalways dreamed of.
And you know the dress she woreyes, that's a Cinderella dress

(58:11):
and yeah, but my mom and dad hadan accident so they could not,
right, we could not do that.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Yeah, and ironically, sleeping Beauty was always my
favorite.
Like I had the album I listenedto it all the time.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
My mom loves Sleeping Beauty.
Well, she won't after if wetell her what it's really about,
but mine was always a littlemermaid.
Yeah, I don't know why.
I think I just like mermaids.
Yeah, although it's weird,because a I don't know if you
know that.
I think we've talked about thisbefore that the rich people are
eating mermaids.
I don't know if you know that.

(58:42):
I think we've talked about thisbefore that the rich people are
eating mermaids, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Yes, yeah, they have them in coolers at their parties
.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Yes, and they do think that the sailors thought
manatees were mermaids.
Right, but they don't sing andthey don't eat people.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
And they'd be really chunky mermaids.
They are not the sexy littleones that we see.
I think they liked them bigback then.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
They also.
I just like the whole, my wholething.
I am fascinated with mermaidsanyway, like that whole siren
song, but then again likeanything that screams like that.
I love Banshees, they're myfavorites.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
I feel like mermaids are one of the more.
They feel more like they couldbe real than a lot of the other
mythical creatures.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
I think Bigfoot's probably the most likely one to
be real.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Yeah, but he's just some form of Giant ape.
Yeah, he's just Neanderthal.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
That just didn't die out.
Yeah, I think I just love thewhole concept of a mermaid.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
It is pretty neat.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
And I could understand where sailors I mean
you've got to go batshit crazyjust out on a ship for all that
time.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Think about just living at the beach.
When you're on the beach atnight there is a whistle, the
wind makes them blowing throughreeds and stuff like that.
So I could hear you can hearwhere there would be some kind
of a siren song, and they didn'thave lighthouses most of the
time so they would crash intothe rocks and we've both spent

(01:00:34):
time out on a boat.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
You, just out the corner of your eye, see
something, or you're not surewhat it was.
You just saw, yeah, and it'sunderwater mostly, so you're
just seeing a piece of it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
That's another thing.
The whole earth is so muchwater and there's so much shit
in the water that we just do notknow about.
I mean, obviously there'sprobably not mermaids down there
.
Well, not what we think thatthey are.
No they're probably that.
Who had the mermaid skeleton?
Was it Ringman?

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Yeah, had the mermaid skeleton.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Yes, and it was just a fish and a monkey.
Yes, poor monkey.
People paid to see that shit,though I don't know.
I just, I just, I always likedthe little mermaid, yeah, but my
sister likes Cinderella and mymom likes Sleeping Beauty,
mm-hmm and Snow White.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Yeah, she was never my favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I didn't like her dress.
I think that was it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Yeah, that's it.
She was a little too peasant-ylooking, yeah, I didn't care for
.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
like the big puppy sleeves, I'm not a puppy sleeve.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
She had short hair.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
I mean I yeah, I don't know, the dwarves were
weird.
Yeah, that's kind of creepy.
And now we know they were justdeformed children that weren't
their minds.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
So you know well, that was great.
Thank you, yeah, you're welcomefor that entertainment.
I had fun researching that.
That was fun.
I hope everybody learnedsomething the more you know.
Um.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you, you can like sharerate review.

(01:02:12):
Please find us where you listento the podcast.
Tell a friend, follow us on allthe socials at like whatever
pod.
Don't forget, if you want asticker, send us an email or uh
something on the socials.
Or you can send us an emailabout why you think mermaids are

(01:02:33):
real.
To like whatever pod atgmailcom.
Or don't like whatever whatever.
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Bye.