We're Gonna Need A Bigger Podcast

Two lifelong movie fans peel back the layers of cinematic history to reveal the chaotic, problem-plagued production that unexpectedly created one of the most influential films of all time. What began as a seemingly straightforward adaptation of Peter Benchley's novel about a man-eating shark became a masterclass in filmmaking innovation when everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

The mechanical shark—famously nicknamed "Bruce" after Spielberg's lawyer—refused to cooperate, sinking, malfunctioning, and looking decidedly unrealistic when it did appear. But this seemingly catastrophic failure forced the young director to reimagine his approach, relying instead on suggestion, sound, and the viewer's imagination to create terror. The yellow barrels breaking the surface, those two ominous musical notes composed by John Williams, and the expert editing by Verna Fields transformed what could have been just another monster movie into a suspense thriller worthy of Hitchcock himself.

As we dissect the troubled 159-day shoot (over triple the scheduled time), the ballooning budget that nearly derailed Spielberg's career, and Robert Shaw's unforgettable USS Indianapolis monologue (which he rewrote himself after attempting to film it drunk), we discover how the confluence of accidents, limitations, and inspired artistic choices created cinematic magic.

The hosts share fascinating behind-the-scenes stories, including how Roy Scheider improvised the iconic "You're gonna need a bigger boat" line, why Spielberg now refuses to be present for the final scene filming of all his movies, and the strange moment when the production team actually considered training a real great white shark before realizing the impossibility.

Did you know that Spielberg originally scoffed at John Williams' simple two-note theme? Or that the film's troubled production was nicknamed "Flaws" by its frustrated crew? Dive into the deep water with us as we explore how a film that went dramatically over budget and schedule changed Hollywood forever by creating the summer blockbuster and keeping generations of viewers afraid to go in the water.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
We're never done as ever laughing and sharing our
stories.
Clever, we'll take you back.
It's like whatever.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to Like Whatever a podcast for.
By and about Gen X.
I'm Nicole and this is my BFF,heather.
Hello, so let's see here I'mexcited for this week's topic.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yes, I'm melting.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
I have melted.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's warm, it is warm it is.
It's going to storm though.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, probably while I'm driving home Probably, but
it stormed when I drove homelast week, so I'm good Look at
that.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
See, it's bookended, it is.
I did want to.
It's bookended, it is.
I did want to talk about onething that's very up.
This week was the last theBlack Sabbath Ozzy Osbourne
Farewell and I've been justobsessed with it.
Yeah, I mean, the emotion heput into my mom coming home is

(01:26):
just gut-wrenching.
It's gut-wrenching and.
I'm not ready for Ozzy to goyet, but I do think it's going
to be soon, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
If you haven't seen it yet, you should check it out.
It's back to the beginning.
I only watched Ozzy's part.
I didn't watch Metallicaica oranything else.
I really probably should, right, I didn't yeah, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, what about you?
Um, yeah, I've been bingewatching only murders in the
Building, which I love.
You've never seen it, right?
No, it is a show about apodcast.
Oh, if you didn't know that, Ididn't.
The three of them have apodcast and people keep getting

(02:14):
murdered in the building theylive in in New York City and
they solve the murders on theirpodcast.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Oh my God, that would be awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
We should do that.
Yeah, we should do that weshould start solving murders.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
We'd be very good at it.
We would be very good at it,yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Well, maybe if we didn't even solve it, but maybe
we just talk about them and justbreak it down.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah.
This is what we decidedhappened.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, there we go.
I'm almost always right when Ilisten to my date lines.
Which there have been somecrazy date lines that I've been
listening to the last couple ofdays.
Which there have been somecrazy date lines that I've been
listening to the last coupledays, Although you know, oh my
God, I'm so stupid Because I wasat work and I listened to it
while I'm putting my mail up andstuff, and sometimes I listen

(02:55):
to.
The Rest is History.
I very much enjoy that.
That's a good podcast.
But I wasn't in the mood.
I was like I don't want tothink about anything, I'm just
gonna put my date lines on, yes,and unfortunately I don't pay
attention it.
They just roll into the nextone, another next one, and it
came up that it was um flight 93.

(03:17):
Yeah, and they were playing thethe um yeah, they were playing
the messages and I was like, whyam I doing this to myself?
Because I'm standing in mything and I'm like trying to
choke back the tears and I'mlike why am I doing this to
myself?
And then I continued to do itto myself Instead of just
turning it off and moving italong.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Where's the fun in that?

Speaker 3 (03:40):
I know I was like you know what.
I'm just going to torch myselfhere and hope no one notices.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
I am leaving for Austin on Sunday.
Oh yeah, mm-hmm, are you?

Speaker 3 (03:50):
excited.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
I am.
I don't like to fly, but I dolike to travel.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
They're a little wet down there.
Yeah, I do feel a little bit ofguilt going down there right
now, because I don't knowexactly how close it is to
Austin.
But I know it was Central Texasthat it happened in.
And I know Austin isCentral-ish but it's a big state
so hopefully I won't be closeyeah.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
It's really sad.
It's really sad.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
It's very sad.
I saw a guy on the news thismorning and his daughter
survived, thank goodness, butshe's devastated that she lost
her bracelet.
So he's there every single daydigging through all the rubble
trying to find her bracelet forher.
It just I mean, every story isjust gut-wrenching.
Yeah, the counselor's drivingthe little girls out on the bus
with them all singing.
Um, who were they singing?

(04:42):
I wanted to say ave mar, butthat's not what they were
singing.
But it was a Christian song andjust their little voices.
It gives me goosebumps justthinking about it.
The counselors were trying todistract them.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
I can't even imagine how terrified they were.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
I mean, I don't know who's going to be more
traumatized the little kids orthe counselors?
They're like 16, 17,18-year-olds, and now you're
responsible for all thesechildren, as all this tragedy is
crashing down around you.
Yeah, and PTSD, all of it.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
It's so sad.
It is sad, but that's whathappens when you cut the funding
to the National Weather Serviceand people can't be given time
to evacuate.
To evacuate, I think they hadfive, ten minutes notice.
Five minutes notice.
Did you see that relapse video?
Yes, the guys in the trucks,yes, and how fat.

(05:35):
And they like hauled ass out.
And two more.
It was in fast motion.
The two come down real quickand then they just back out.
I did see that yeah.
It's so sad, it's terrifying.
It reminded me of, uh the scenein oh brother, where art thou?
Yeah when they purposely floodthe yeah flood, the area, like

(05:57):
that's had to have been what itwas like there is a whole.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Not to change subject .
Not to change subject.
I'm good with that.
There is a town.
I want to say it's in one ofthe Carolinas or somewhere that
I'm probably not in theCarolinas Anyway, a way long
time ago they flooded a wholetown to make a like, on purpose,

(06:21):
to make this lake.
So it's the lake and underneathis all of the houses and you
can see them, whoa yeah and it'slike super creepy.
That's so creepy I forget whatit's called, but it's like they
flooded the whole area and thenthe houses are still there.
Wow, under the water.
Creepy town.

(06:43):
Yeah, I mean nobody, I don't.
I think they moved everybodyout first before they did that.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
But yeah, but I'll bet that it's still haunted, I'm
sure, like I definitelywouldn't fish in that pond, no,
no no, no, no, that's creepy,yeah, but I want to go because I
want to see it.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Of course yeah, hit.
Of course yeah, because nowthat the water level is dropping
everywhere, yeah now you cansee the houses their little
rooftops.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, now you're like what is going on?

Speaker 3 (07:11):
why?

Speaker 2 (07:12):
is there, oh my god yeah, other than that it's been
hot as 80s here all week.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
I mean it's like it is preparing us for our
afterlife, though we wereliterally just talking about
this, we were, yeah, how muchfun hell's going to be.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
It's going to be great Casinos and booze and
drugs.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
And all of it.
All of it, because I've beenhaving a poker tournament issue,
the last.
I've been playing pokertournaments like left and right
now.
Did you know that you couldplay a poker tournament for a
penny Whoa and you could win$100.
?
Oh, exactly, I did come in 34thNice.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Out of like 200 and some Very good.
Yeah, I had like so manystraights.
I don't know what happened.
I was like it was just onestraight after another after
another, and then I went all inon two pair and I lost yeah,
after another after another, andthen I went all in on two pair
and I lost yeah, yeah, butthat's how it goes.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
No one to hold them.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
No one to hold them.
I did not know when to walkaway, Nor did I run.
Kenny wasn't.
I didn't follow his advice.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
So that's it.
I think that's it All right.
But before we get intoeverything real quick, she
forgets every time.
Please like share rate review.
We're on all the socials atlike whatever pod.
We have an email like whateverpod at gmailcom, and is that?

Speaker 3 (08:47):
it.
That's it, okay.
Yeah, so now we're going tofuck around and find out about
Jaws, yay.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
I'm so excited.
I have been dying for you to dothis topic.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
I was.
I thought it.
I actually thought it was SharkWeek, but it's not so.
But we did have here in theOcean City, maryland, somebody
got bit by something from theocean.
It was the exact article title.
They got bit by something.
And I said I mean, if you getbit by something that's not in

(09:21):
the ocean, while you're in theocean, that would be way more
alarming than if you got you gota bit by sure.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I love, though, how they think if they don't say it
was a shark that no one willknow they'll be like oh, it was
just something.
It was something.
There were two shark attacks innew york this week too.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, fuck that I mean, if you go into their
house look, here's the thing.
I heard somebody else say thisonce if you, if somebody comes
in their bathing suit and isjust wandering through your
living room, I mean you get toshoot them.
Yeah, so why wouldn't sharksget to me?

Speaker 2 (09:55):
I mean I have a similar philosophy to bugs.
If I'm outside, I'm not goingto kill a bug, except a mosquito
, because they're assholes, yeah, but everybody else?
I mean this is your space.
If you're flying, you come inmy house, I'm gonna kill you.
I mean, you came into my space,you're not supposed to.
I mean I might try to let youout if it's possible or whatever
, but I'm I do take spidersoutside I never kill spiders.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
You shouldn't take them outside.
Oh no, you should becausethey're.
There's different thingsthere's house spiders and
there's outside spiders you knowwhat?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
actually, I used to take them outside, but now that
you say it, I just leave themalone.
Yeah, they don't hurt anything.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
No, because inside spiders don't know how to live
outside.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, I heard that somewhere it could be a total
lie everyone on that I don't, Iprobably didn't, I probably just
totally lied to you.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Just leave them alone , why don't do their thing?

Speaker 2 (10:39):
yeah, they're really not gonna do I mean everyone's
on a blue moon.
It's been a while, but I'vegotten a spider bite in my sleep
or something.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Nothing major, it's just.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
They also say and I don't know if this is a lie also
that spiders know your habitsand try to stay away from you.
So, that if you see a spider,it's because you went out of
your, off your routine.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
You snuck up on them.
You snuck up on them.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
And they were like oh shit, I used to have a spider
that lived in my shower.
We actually do have a blackwidow living in the house
somewhere.
Yeah I, I moved her to adifferent area that was not in
the bathroom where she was, andthen I got yelled at because I
was told, why would you move apoisonous spider?
And I said she's venomous andnot poisonous number one.

(11:28):
And I said she has a right tolive.
Also, exactly, she got movedand I'm not telling anybody
where I moved her do you eversee her?
not anymore now, since I movedher, so see she figured it out,
she did.
She was like thank you, andthen she moved on.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
She's like I was stuck in this bathroom.
I can figure out how to get out.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, because there's no bugs in there.
Now I moved her to wherethere's fruit flies.
Yeah, I moved her to the fruitfly section.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
I said do your damn job.
Yeah, if you're gonna live here, at least clean up a little bit
, be here with your hourglass,do your damn job.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Everybody's got a job here, yeah, yeah, except for
the fucking dog and the cats andbird, whatever.
Let's talk about jaws yeah,yeah, yeah yeah uh, so, um, my,
mostly my content was from imbdand movie web and there's like
118 different documentaries.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
And just the general knowledge in your brain.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Because I've seen Jaws 387 million times.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I was hoping to rewatch it this week before we
did this just to freshen mymemory, because you know I have
a horrible memory.
But I've also seen that movielike 300 times, so I't know.
I'm pretty sure I can getthrough it.
Yep, You'll be fine.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Mostly, I'm not even going to really talk about the
plot much.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Because I think we all know how it goes.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, the fun stuff is in making it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
So Jaws is based on the Peter Benchley novel about a
man eating great white shark,about a man eating great white
shark.
The great white shark,Carcarodon carcarus, also known
as the white shark, whitepointer or simply great white,
is a species of large mackerelshark which can be found in the
coastal surface waters of allthe major oceans.
Because you knew I was going togive you a lesson on sharks.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yes, well, you've watched enough Shark Week.
You should certainly.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
And I love the great white.
It's my favorite of the sharks.
It's the only and it's the mostperfect predator.
Fyi, it's the only knownsurviving species of its genus,
Carcharodon.
The great white is notable forits size, with the largest
preserved female specimenmeasuring 19 feet in length and

(13:44):
around 4,400 pounds in weight atmaturity.
However, most are smaller Malesmeasure 11 to 13 feet and
females measure 15 to 16.
On average, the lifespan of thegreat white is estimated to be
as long as 70 years or more,making it one of the longest
lived cartilaginous.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Cartilaginous Say that three times real fast, I
can't say it.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Fish is currently known.
Great white sharks can swim ata speed of 16 miles per hour for
short bursts and to depths of3,900 feet Because they're made
of cartilage.
The great white shark isarguably the world's largest
known exodent micropredatoryfish and it's one of the primary
predators of marine mammalssuch as pinnipeds and dolphins.

(14:29):
The great white shark is alsoknown to prey upon a variety of
other animals, including fish,other sharks and seabirds.
It has only one recordednatural predator, the orca.
Which, by the way, right nowthe orca are like waging war on
the great white.
Which, by the way, right nowthe orca are like waging war on
the great white, like they'reworried that they're going to
put the great white out of, intoextinction because they just
keep coming and they just stealtheir liver and then they leave

(14:51):
them the little they just comein, they go put on their salmon
hats and yes, and they paradearound with the shark liver.
I don't know what's going onwith that, but orcas are
assholes like they really arethey're're horrible.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Which is hilarious.
When you think of SeaWorld,Everybody's like oh, look at the
pretty little and that's justit.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Everybody's like, oh, sharks are horrible, but we
love Shamu and Shamu's awful,awful.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Awful.
I mean, if I was Shamu, I'd beawful too.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Swimming around that tiny pool all the time Right.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
But yes, they are shamoos in general, are mean and
they like to like torture.
It's not like they kill theirprey.
They'll take a seal and toss itaround and that poor thing is.
Yeah, they they don't.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
They kill for fun yeah, they're horrible I mean.
I will also note that it's nota natural predator, but you know
, human beings also are notgreat for a great white.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Anything in the ocean or on land or anywhere or in
the sky.
Pretty much, we just are.
Yeah, we just destroyeverything.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
We're the biggest invasive species on the planet,
yes, so the species facesnumerous ecological challenges,
which have resulted ininternational protection.
The International Union forConservation of Nature lists the
great white shark as avulnerable species.
It's also protected by severalnational governments due to

(16:11):
their need to travel longdistances, for seasonal
migration and extremelydemanding diet.
It's not logistically feasibleto keep great white sharks in
captivity Because of this, whileattempts have been made to do
so in the past, there are noknown aquariums in the world
believed to house a livespecimen.
I don't remember.
I want to say it's Jaws, likethree or four, where they tell

(16:34):
you that they have to keepmoving with the water going
through their gills.
I don't know if that's true orthey're just lying to us, but I
don't know.
How do they sleep?
How do any fish sleep?
Well, whales sleep up and downlike vertical in the water.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Oh yeah, I did know that.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, they just kind of bob there.
That's creepy.
The great white shark isdepicted in popular culture as a
ferocious man-eater, largely asa result of the novel by Peter
Finchley and its subsequent filmadaptation by Steven Spielberg.
While humans are not preferredprey, this species is
nonetheless responsible for thelargest number of reported and

(17:14):
identified fatal unprovokedshark attacks on humans.
Attacks are rare, typicallyoccurring fewer than 10 times
per year globally.
If you would like to know about, there's www, www, www, www,
www, www, www, www, www, www,www, www, www, www, www, www,
www, www, www, www, www, www www, www.
Www www, www, www, www, www, www, www, www, www, www, www, www,
www, www, www, www, www, www,www, www, www, www, www, www,
www, www, www, www, www, www,www, www, www, www, www, www,

(17:34):
www, www, www, www, www, www,www, www, www, www, www, www,
www, www, www, www, www, www,www, www, www, www, www, www,
www, www, www, www, www, www,www, www, www, www, www, www,
www, www, www, www, www, www,www, www, www, www, www, www,
www, www, www, www, www, www,www.
Because they have to come upclose enough to the surface,
they tag them with GPS tags butthey have to come up so close to
the surface in order for themto ding.
But they have turtles, all kindsof species of shark, and you

(17:58):
can see anywhere.
It's pretty cool to look atthem it is cool, yeah, so check
that out.
Plus, you can give donations tothem, and what have you?
and they are trying to track themovements of the great white
and help save them.
So awesome, nice.
The film is considered thefirst summer blockbuster, which
you can hear more about summerblockbusters in episode 33.

(18:20):
If you chill it they will come.
I actually looked it up.
So released released June 20th1975.
Director Steven Spielberg,directed by Steven Spielberg,
roy Schneider as Police ChiefBrody, marine, biologist Hooper
Richard Dreyfuss and Captain ofthe Orca Quint, robert Shaw.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
I had such a crush on Richard Dreyfuss when I was
little.
Really I don't know why, likewhen I first like 12, when I
first got into boys.
I don't know why, like when Ifirst like 12, when I first got
into boys.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
I don't know, and it's because of jaws I guess I
mean he was pretty smart shotmostly on location at martha's
vineyard in massachusetts frommay to october of 74.
Jaws was the first major motionpicture to be shot on the ocean
and consequently had a troubledproduction going over budget
and schedule as the artdepartment's mechanical shark

(19:13):
often malfunctioned.
Spielberg decided to mostlysuggest the shark's presence,
employing an ominous andminimalist theme created by
composer John Williams toindicate its impending
appearance.
Spielberg and others havecompared this suggestive
approach to that of directoralfred hitchcock.
Universal pictures released thefilm to over 450 screens, an

(19:34):
exceptionally wide release for amajor studio picture at the
time, accompanied by anextensive marketing campaign
with heavy emphasis ontelevision spots and tie into
merchandise.
Hence the reason why it's thesummer blockbuster.
So we're just real quick.
The plot, because, again, ifyou don't know the plot, like
what are you even doing here?

(19:57):
In a new Inklid beach town ofAmity Island, a young woman goes
for a late night ocean swim.
An unseen force attacks andpulls her underwater.
Her partial remains are foundwashed up on the beach the next
morning After the coronerconcludes it was a shark attack,
amnesty police chief martinbirdie closes the beach.
Mayor larry vaughn persuadeshim to reconsider, fearing the

(20:18):
town's summer economy willsuffer, and having grown up in a
summer economy, I totally seehow it happens, absolutely like
literally.
They just, I just we just toldyou a story of how they said it
was something in the ocean I wasgonna say and we'll not call it
what we just said about oceanshark.
They won't say it, and right nowwe got a um tropical storm

(20:38):
depression.
I don't know what it iscurrently but that's what's
common the cyclone, yeah, yeah,and they're already like well,
they might have rip currents,like just stay out of the water.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, it's better yeah.
You really want in your papersthat somebody died because
nobody told them about the ripcurrents.
Go to a pool.
I grew up at the beach and Igot caught in a rip current once
and I really truly thought Iwas going to die.
I've never been in a ripcurrent.
You just roll around and hopeyou pop up.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah, I'm banging on the bottom and all of a sudden
my head popped up and I was likeI always say that I have a 0%
chance of getting attacked by ashark or an orca or any of the
above, because I don't go in thewater.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
I don't anymore either.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
I go to pools, that's my philosophy on a lot of
things anymore either I go topools, that's my philosophy on a
lot of things.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
You can't die bungee jumping if you don't bungee jump
that's a true story, unlesssomebody ties you up and throws
you.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
I'm sure of that, but you probably have bigger
problems, if that might not bethe worst thing that's going to
happen Bungee.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Oh goodness sakes.
The coroner, apparently underpressure, now concurs with the
mayor's theory that it was aboating accident.
Brody reluctantly accepts theirconclusion until young Alex
Kittner is killed at a crowdedbeach.
A $3,000 bounty is placed onthe shark, causing an amateur
shark hunting frenzy.
Quint, an eccentric local sharkhunter, offers his services for

(22:07):
$10,000.
Consulting oceanographer MattHooper examines the girl's
remains, confirming she waskilled by an unusually large
shark.
When local fishermen catch atiger shark Vaughn declares the
beach is safe.
A skeptical Hooper dissects theshark and, finding no human
remains inside its stomach,concludes that the killer shark

(22:28):
is still active.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
They made the government so realistic in that
movie.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
I know my favorite part of that is probably not
many people know it as well as Ido, but when he's like I am not
opening that thing up so thatKittner boy can fall onto the
Yep.
Yeah, but it wasn't him, I thinkthey just find a um license
plate.
Where do I go?

(22:53):
While searching the nightwaters in hooper's boat, hoover
and brody find the half sunkenboat of ben gardner, a local
fisherman.
Hooper dons a scuba suit andgoes underwater to check the
boat's hull and finds a largeshark tooth embedded into it.
He drops the tooth afterencountering Gardner's severed
head, and that part scares meStill.

(23:13):
That's, that's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm still not ready for that.
I have a fun fact about that.
Later, you better, I do.
I have some fun facts, ofcourse Not as good as the fun
facts from the last time.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
Not the ear cannabis.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I have shared that fun fact with so many people,
and they laugh so hard.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
That's the greatest fun fact ever.
It really is.
He drops the head.
He drops the tooth.
That's the scene.
The head Vaughn dismisses Brodyand Hooper's assertions that a
great white shark caused thedeath and refuses to close the
beaches, allowing only increasedsafety precautions On the 4th
of July weekend, which justhappened.

(23:54):
That's probably why I pickedright now.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
It was a stunningly beautiful 4th of July weekend
around here.
Anyway, if you're into thatkind of thing, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
I didn't leave my house.
I just stared at people fromthe window.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, you actually grounded yourself.
I didn't leave my house, I juststared at people from the
window.
Yeah, you actually groundedyourself.
I did ground myself it was verynecessary.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
It was absolutely necessary.
I should not be allowed out Onthe 4th of July weekend.
Tourists pack the beachesBecause, if you're not familiar
with the beach area, 4th of Julyis basically the Super Bowl of
summer.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
It's insane, yeah.
Not only is literally everyoneon vacation, but then everyone's
coming down for fireworks, soit's like and it was on a Friday
Bursting at the seams.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
So that means everybody had a long weekend,
which makes it like the biggestSuper Bowl of all the Super
Bowls.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
I saw a picture of Rovis Beach Beech's boardwalk
Friday night.
There's no way in hell, I mean,I don't know how it looked like
a concert like that many peoplepacked in.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Well, having to fight the traffic to deliver mail on
Thursday and Saturday, I cantell you that it was a record
amount of people here.
It was just awful.
Which is why I grounded myself.
Tourists pack the beach.
The shark enters a nearbylagoon, killing a boater and
nearly killing Brody's sonMichael, who is hospitalized

(25:21):
with shock.
Brody then convinces aguilt-ridden Vaughn to hire
Quint, convinces a guilt-riddenVaughn to hire Quint.
Despite initial tensionsbetween Quint and Hooper and
Brody's fear of the ocean, thethree head out to the sea on
Quint's boat, the Orca, to huntfor the shark.
As Brody lays down a chum line,the shark suddenly appears
behind the boat.
Quint estimates it's 25 feetlong and weighs three tons.

(25:46):
They harpoon it with a lineattached to flotation barrels,
but the shark pulls itunderwater and disappears At
nightfall.
Quint and Hooper drunkenlyexchange stories about their
assorted body scars.
One of Quint's is a removedtattoo.
He reveals that during WorldWar II he survived the sinking
of the USS Indianapolis, duringwhich sharks killed many US
soldiers or sailors.

(26:08):
Is that a true story or did he?
I'm going to get to that, okay.
The shark returns roaming,ramming the boat's hull and
disabling the power.
The men work through the nightrepairing the engine.
In the morning, broody attemptsto call the coast guard, but
quint, obsessed with killing theshark without outside
assistance, snatch, smashes theradio.
After a long chase, quintharpoons the shark with another

(26:28):
barrel.
The line is tied to the sterncleats, but the shark drags the
boat backwards, swamping thedeck and flooding the engine
compartment.
As quint is about to sever theline, save the boats.
To save the boat, the cleatsbreak off, the barrel stay
attached to the shark.
To brody's relief, quint speedsthe orca towards shore to draw
the shark into shallower waters,but the damaged engine fails as

(26:51):
the boat takes home water.
The trio attempts a riskierapproach.
Hooper suits up and enters ashark-proof cage, intending to
lethally inject the shark withstrychnine via a hypodermic
spear.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Shoo.
How much strychnine would ittake to kill a three-ton shark?

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, I don't think you would have to kill a
three-ton shark.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with a lot you would
have to throw like barrels of itin his mouth.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
I think so.
The shark attacks the cage,causing Hooper to drop the spear
.
While the shark destroys thecage, hooper escapes to the
ocean bottom.
The shark leaps onto the boat'sstern, subsequently devouring
Quinn Trapped.
On the sinking vessel, brodythrusts a scuba tank into the
shark's mouth and, climbing ontothe crow's nest, shoots the

(27:33):
tank with a rifle.
The resulting explosion killsthe shark.
Hooper resurfaces and he andBrody paddle back to shore,
clinging to the remaining piecesof the boat.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Nice summary there.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
End scene, the boat nice, nice summary there and see
the principal.
Photography began may 2nd 1974on the island of martha's
vineyard, massachusetts,selected after consideration was
given to eastern long island.
Brown explained later that theproduction needed a vacation
area that was lower middle classenough so that an appearance of
a shark would destroy thetourist business.

(28:08):
Martha's Vineyard was alsochosen because the surrounding
ocean had a sandy bottom thatnever dropped below 35 feet for
12 miles, which allowed themechanical shark to operate
while also be on site of theland.
As Spielberg wanted to film theaquatic sequences relatively

(28:28):
close up to resemble what peoplesee while swimming,
cinematographer Bill Butlerdevised new equipment to
facilitate marine and underwatershooting, including a rig to
keep the camera stableregardless of tide and a sealed
submersible camera box.
Spielberg asked the artdepartment to avoid red in both
scenery and wardrobe so that theblood from the attack would be

(28:50):
the only red element and cause abigger shock.
I don't know.
Very smart Initially, thefilm's producer wanted.
This is my favorite part.
I should have put this in thefun facts, but Initially the
film's producers wanted to traina great white shark, but
quickly realized that this wasnot possible so three full-size.

(29:16):
I think it's a fucking lassie orsomething geez full-size
pneumatically powered propsharks were made for the
production A sea sled shark, afull body prop with its belly
missing that was towed by a 300foot line, and two platform
sharks one that moved fromcamera left to right, which it's

(29:37):
hidden left side, exposing anarray of pneumatic hoses, and an
opposite model with its rightflank uncovered.
The sharks were designed by artdirector and production
designer joe alves during thethird quarter of 73, between
november 73 and april 74.
The sharks were fabricated atraleigh harper's motion picture
and equipment rental in sunvalley, california.

(29:59):
Their construction involved ateam of as many as 40 effect
technicians supervised bymechanical effects supervisor
bob maddy, best known forcreating the giant squid in
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.
After the sharks were completed, they were trucked to the
shooting location.
In early July, the platform usedto tow the two-sided view shark

(30:19):
capsized as it was beinglowered to the ocean floor,
forcing a team of divers toretrieve it.
The model required 14 operatorsto control all of the moving
parts it.
The model required 14 operatorsto control all of the moving
parts for quint's boat, the orca.
Alves and his team constructedtwo identical 42 foot models for
the film.
The second boat, dubbed orca 2,had no motor and was designed
to sink on command.

(30:39):
So jaws was the first motionpicture to be shot on the ocean,
resulting in a troubled shoot,and went far over budget.
David brown said that thebudget was four million and the
picture wound up costing ninemillion.
Yeah, and this was in the 70s.
Yeah, the effects outlays alonegrew to three million due to
the problems with the mechanicalsharks.

(31:00):
Disgruntled crew members gavethe film the nickname flaws.
Spielberg attributed manyproblems to be to his
perfectionism and hisinexperience, because it was
only the second movie he haddone.
The former was epitomized byhis insistence on shooting at
sea with a life-size shark.
I could have shot the movie inthe tank or even in a protected

(31:20):
lake somewhere, but it would nothave looked the same.
As for the lack of experience,I was naive about the ocean.
Basically, I was pretty naiveabout Mother Nature, and the
hubris of a filmmaker who thinkshe can conquer the elements was
foolhardy.
But I was too young to know,and I was being foolhardy when I
demanded that we shoot the filmin the Atlantic Ocean and not

(31:42):
in a North Hollywood tank.
Gottlieb said that there wasnothing to do except make the
movie.
So everyone kept overworkingand while as a writer he did not
have to attend the ocean setevery day.
Once the crewmen returned, theyarrived ravaged and sunburnt,
windblown and covered with saltwater I miss those days, if you

(32:03):
know I hate being covered insalt water.
it makes makes you itchy.
I love it Okay.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Awful.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
Sand gets everywhere.
I love sand I hate sand Shootingat sea level at sea led to many
delays, unwanted sailboatsdrifting into frame, cameras got
soaked and the orca once beganto sink with the actors on board
.
The prop sharks frequentlymalfunctioned owing to a series
of problems, including badweather, pneumatic hoses taking

(32:30):
on saltwater frames, fracturingdue to water resistance,
corroding skin and electrolysis.
From the first water testonward, the non-absorbent
neoprene foam that made up theshark skin soaked up liquid,
causing the shark to balloon,and the sea sled model
frequently got entangled amongforests of seaweed that happens

(32:52):
to be in the ocean too.
Yes, spielberg later calculatedthat during the 12 hour daily
work schedule, on average, onlyfour hours were actually spent
filming godlob, who was nearlydecapitated by the boat's
propellers, and Dreyfus wasalmost imprisoned in the steel
cage.
The actors were frequentlyseasick.
Shaw also fled to Canadawhenever he could due to tax

(33:14):
problems, engaged in bingedrinking and developed a grudge
against Dreyfus, who was gettingrave reviews for his
performance in Dudley Kravitz.
Editor Verna Fields rarely hadmaterial to work with during
principal photography as,according to spielberg, we would
shoot five scenes in a good day, three in an average day and
none in a bad day.

(33:35):
The delays proved beneficial insome regards, however.
The script was refined duringproduction and the unreliable
mechanical shark forcedspielberg to shoot many scenes
so that the shark was onlyhinted at.
For example, much of the sharkhunt.
It's located.
Location is indicated by thefloating yellow barrels.
The opening had the sharkdevouring Chrissy, but it was

(33:58):
rewritten so that it would beshot within, with backlining
being dragged and yanked bycables to simulate an attack.
It's crazy about that is shedid not know that was going to
happen when they did it.
What?
So?
That's her actual reaction tothem snatching her.
That's fucked up.
And then I don't know if I putthis in the fun facts.
I don't think I did.

(34:18):
When they went to film thesound and stuff.
You know how they do thatpost-production Steve Bielberg
made her scream while he dumpedwater on her that poor girl,
yeah um the delays.
I did that, oh, spielberg alsoindicate included multiple shots

(34:42):
of just the dorsal fin.
This forced restraint is widelythought to have added to the
film's suspense.
As spielberg put it, yearslater the film film went from a
Japanese Saturday matinee horrorflick to more of a Hitchcock
the less you see, the more youget thriller.
In another interview hesimilarly declared the shark not
working was a godsend.
It made me become more likeAlfred Hitchcock than like Ray

(35:05):
Herrhausen.
The acting became crucial formaking audiences believe in such
a big shark.
The more fake the shark lookedin the water, the more my
anxiety told me to heighten thenaturalism of the performances,
and that is what makes it such aphenomenal movie, and it's what
makes Spielberg a genius.

(35:25):
Footage of real sharks was shotby Ron and Valerie Taylor in the
water off Dangerous Reef inSouth Australia, with a very
short actor in a miniature sharkcage to create the illusion
that the sharks were enormous.
During the Taylor shoot, agreat white attacked the boat
and cage.
The footage of the cage attackwas so stunning that Spielberg
was eager to incorporate it inthe film.
No one had been in the cage atthe time and the script

(35:48):
following the novel originallyhad the shark killing Hooper in
it.
The storyline was consequentlyaltered to have Hooper escape
from the cage, which allowed thefootage to be used.
As production executive BillGilmore put it, the shark down
in Australia, rewrote the scriptand saved Dreyfus' character.
Although principal photographywas scheduled to take 55 days,

(36:10):
did not wrap until october 61974 after 159 days.
Spielberg, reflecting on theprotracted shoot, stated I
thought my career as a filmmakerwas over.
I heard rumors that I wouldnever work again because no one
had ever taken a film 100 daysover schedule spielberg twice

(36:30):
the budget spielberg himself wasnot present for the shooting of
the final scene in which theshark explodes, as he believed
that the crew were planning tothrow him in the water when the
scene was done so what?
I got a fun fact about.
I got a fun fact about that too.
Afterwards, underwater sceneswere shot at the
metro-Golden-Mare water tank inCulver City with stuntman Dick

(36:53):
Warlock and Frank James Sparksas stand-ins for Dreyfus in the
scene where the shark attacksthe cage, as well as near South
Catalina Island, californiaFields, who had completed a
rough cut of the firsttwo-thirds of the film up until
the shark hunt, finished theediting and reworked some of the
material.
According to zanuck, sheactually came in and
reconstructed some scenes thatsteven had constructed for

(37:15):
comedy and made them terrifying,and some scenes he shot to be
terrifying and made them comedyscenes.
The boat used for the orca wasbrought to los angeles to the
sound effects team could recordsounds for both the ship and the
underwater scenes.
Two scenes were alteredfollowing test screenings as the
audience's screams had coveredup Schneider's bigger boat

(37:38):
one-liner.
Brody's reaction after theshark jumps behind him was
extended and the volume of theline was raised.
Spielberg also decided that hewas greedy for one more scream
and reshot the scene in whichHooper discovers Ben Gardner's
body using $3,000 of his ownmoney after Universal refused to
pay for the reshoot.
The underwater scene was shotin Field Swimming Pool in Encino

(38:01):
, california, using a life-castlatex model of Craig Kinsbury's
head, attached to a fake body,which was placed in the wrecked
boat's hull To simulate themurky waters of Martha's
Vineyard.
Powdered milk was poured intothe pool, which was then covered
with tarpaulin.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I remember drinking powdered milk as a kid.
I know, did you yes?

Speaker 3 (38:24):
My grandmother had it all the time.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
That shit was nasty, it was nasty.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
It was gross.
It continues to be gross.
When producers Richard D Zanuckand David Brown hired Spielberg
to direct a film based on PeterBenchley's 74 novel, he was
just 27 years old andprofessionally untested.
His theatrical film debut, theSugarland Express, hadn't hit
theaters yet.
Though Spielberg compiled witha request from Zanuck and Brown

(38:52):
to cast known actors, he wantedto avoid hiring any big stars.
He felt that somewhat anonymousperformers would help the
audience believe this washappening to people like you and
me, whereas stars brought a lotof memories along with them,
and those memories can sometimescorrupt the story.
The director added that in hisplans, the superstar was going

(39:13):
to be the shark.
The first actor cast wasLorraine Gray, the wife of
Universal president SidneySheinberg as Ellen Brodydy and
maury hamilton as the mayor ofamity island stuntwoman turned
actress.
Susan backline was cast aschristine watt chrissy watkins,

(39:33):
the first victim as she knew howto swim and was willing to
perform nude most minor roles.
I mean, that's pretty much youwin.
Most minor roles were played byresidents of Martha's Vineyard,
where the film was shot.
One example was Deputy Hendrix,played by future television
producer Jeffrey Kramer.
Lee Fierro plays Mrs Kittner,the mother of the shark's second

(39:57):
victim, alex Kittner, played byJeffrey Voorhees.
I did not put this in the funfacts and it's a little outside.
It's not 100% proven, but shewas called the Lady of the Dunes
and she was found the same yeardead down from where they shot

(40:21):
Jaws and she's wearing a redbandana, jeans and a t-shirt and
they were never able toidentify who she was.
And when Spielberg's son,somebody watched the movie and
she's in it.
She's an extra Whoa, yeah, andthey think she was a victim of

(40:43):
whitey balker.
Ooh, look it up.
They don't know.
It's not been 100% proven, butshe looks like the girl in one
of the scenes.
Wow, I know the role of Bertiewas offered to Robert Duvall,
but the actor was interestedonly in portraying Quint.
Charlton Heston expressed adesire for the role, but

(41:07):
Spielberg felt that Heston wouldbring a screened persona to
Grand for the part of a policechief of a modest community.
Roy Schneider became interestedin the project after
overhearing Spielberg at a partytalk with the screenwriter
about having the shark jump uponto the boat.
Spielberg, at a party, talkedwith the screenwriter about
having the shark jump up ontothe boat.

(41:27):
Spielberg was apprehensiveabout hiring Schneider, fearing
he would portray a tough guysimilar to his role in the
French Connection.
Nine days before the start ofproduction, neither Quint nor
Hooper had been cast.
The role of Quint wasoriginally offered to actor Lee
Marvin and Sterling Hayden, bothof whom passed Zanuck and Brown
just had finished working withRobert Shaw on the Sting and
suggested him to Spielberg.

(41:47):
Shaw was reluctant to take therole since he did not like the
book, but decided to accept atthe urging of both his wife,
actress Mary Earle, and hissecretary.
The last time they were thatenthusiastic was from Russia,
with Love, and they were right.
Last time they were thatenthusiastic was from Russia,
with Love, and they were right.
Shaw based his performance onfellow cast member Craig
Kinsberg, a local fisherman,farmer and legendary eccentric,

(42:10):
who was cast in the small roleof fisherman Ben Gardner.
Spielberg described Kinsberg asthe purest version of who, in
my mind, quint was and some ofhis off-screen utterances were
incorporated into the script aslines of both Gardner and Quint.

(42:31):
He is also the one whose head.
That's the guy whose head.
Another source for some ofQuint's dialogue and mannerisms,
especially in the third act atsea, was vineyard mechanic and
boat owner Lynn Murphy.
For the role of Hooper,spielberg initially wanted john
boyd, timothy bottoms, janmichael vincent, joel gray and
jeff bridges were all alsoconsidered for the part

(42:52):
spielberg, which I didn't.
I don't think I realized jeffbridges was that old I didn't
either, and I love him so much.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
He is one of my all-time favorites.
He's also in the Fisher King.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yes, my favorite Robin Williams movie.
That is her favorite movieAgain.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
That's why her daughter is that is where my
daughter got her name.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
The Tattooed Lady.
The actor initially passed, butchanged his decision.
Oh no, spielberg's friendGeorge Lucas suggested Dreyfuss,
whom he had directed inAmerican Graffiti.
The actor initially passed, butchanged his decision after he
attended a pre-release screeningof the Apprenticeship of Dudley
Kravitz, which he had justcompleted.

(43:33):
Disappointed in his performanceand fearing that no one would
want to hire him once Kravitzwas released, he immediately
called Spielberg and acceptedthe role in Jaws.
Because the film the directorenvisioned was so dissimilar to
Benchley's novel, spielbergasked Dreyfus not to read it.
As a result of the casting,huber was rewritten to better
suit the actor as well as to bemore representative of Spielberg

(43:56):
, who came to view Dreyfus ashis alter ego.
There was so much free time.
Beer had to be banned on theboat.
All over the picture showssigns of going down like the
Titanic.
Gottlob wrote On booze.
Robert Shaw was an Olympiandrinker.
During an on-camera interview,the British actor was asked how

(44:18):
he prepares Scotch vodka gin.
Whatever he said, but Spielbergunderestimated this fact.
When shooting quinn's famousmonologue to richard dreyfus,
hooper and roy schneider's brodyaboard the orca, he let shaw
throw a few back.
Robert came over to me and saidyou know, steve, and all three
of these characters have beendrinking and I think I could do
much better job in this speech.

(44:39):
If you actually, let me have afew drinks before I do the
speech.
Spielberg told entertainmentweekly in 2011 and I unwisely
gave him permission shaw wasplastered crew members had to
carry him onto the boat and hewas so drunk that they wrapped
the day.
At about two o'clock in themorning my phone rings and it's
robert.
The director added he had acomplete blackout and had no

(45:01):
memory of what had gone downthat day.
Been there, done that.
The scene was reshot, sober.
It was like watching olivier onstage.
Spielberg said for many yearsjohn milio was given the credit,
steven.
Spielberg says milio miliusdirected the speech on the phone
, resulting in a 10-pagemonologue which Robin Shaw

(45:23):
edited In a featurette about thefilm's production.
He said it's Millett's wordsand it's Shaw's editing the
speech.
Gottlieb said that there wasoriginally 10 different versions

(45:44):
, including one he himself wrote.
These were all given to Shaw,who read them and came up with
his version which was used inthe film.
Gottlieb recalled that Shawtook it all, synthesized it and
one night, while we were all atdinner, he came in with a
handful of paper and said Ithink I have the pesky speech
licked and he basicallyperformed it for the table and
we all went wow.
And Stephen said that's whatwe're shooting.

(46:07):
The movie co-screenwriterconcluded by saying it was
Shaw's speech and that, becauseJohn and Stephen are close
friends.
Stephen has always supportedMilius's version, which, in
Gottlieb's estimation, is false.
Having served in the PacificTheater throughout World War II,
the USS Indianapolis was sentto Tinian with parts for the
little boy which was to bedropped over Hiroshima.

(46:29):
This is the true story of theUSS Indianapolis.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Really quickly.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
I don't know, but this is the true story.
It was delivering parts for thelittle boy which is to be
dropped over Hiroshima.
After completing this task andbriefly stopping in Guam, the
Indianapolis headed back for thePhilippines.
At a quarter after midnight onJuly 30th 1945, the Japanese
cruiser submarine I-58 fired twoType 95 torpedoes at the US

(46:56):
Navy vessel, striking her on thestarboard side.
Because it was a secret mission, no one knew it had been hit
and no one knew it was goingdown.
They didn't even know it wasthere.
Indianapolis sank within 12minutes and roughly 300 sailors
died aboard the ship.
The remaining 895 crew memberswere stranded in the water.

(47:17):
Just like Quint described, theyfaced the threat posed by
sharks.
After four days the survivorswere rescued, but only 316 wound
up.
Making it out of the terrifyingincident, john Williams
composed the film oh wait, Iwant to set it up.
So yeah, the Indianapolis didhappen.
They did get eaten by sharks.

(47:38):
It was bull sharks, tigersharks, and they have people.
The speech is fairly accurateof what they act.
A lot of them died ofhypothermia and drowned.
But, they were being eaten bysharks.
And they said that they couldhear them being pulled under For
four days.
Yeah, can you?

(47:58):
In the middle of the ocean.
It's dark, yeah, it's dark.
You can't see land, no, andthen you're just being picked
off.
But that's coming from upunderneath you and just
snatching.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
The sharks are like hey guys, check out this new
joint I just found Great.
It's an all you can eat.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
So yes, that's it.
It is a kind of a crazy storyto look into.
They didn't, they did deliverit, I mean being in the military
back in the day.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I mean not that it's any picnic now, but at least we
have technology now back then,man like.
So the boat got hit twice andno one even knew till the boat
started sinking.
Did the guys on the boat knowthey?

Speaker 3 (48:43):
knew it was going to sink.
Okay, because they felt it gethit.
It was two shots quick, thetorpedoes.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
So I wonder how they knew to come look for them.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
It didn't show up when it was supposed to.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
I was thinking that, but I was like how many days was
it supposed to get back?

Speaker 3 (48:59):
And then they finally were like huh, where'd that
boat go?
It's a really cool story.
Actually, I think the guys onthe last podcast on the left do
several episodes on it.
It's a crazy, crazy, crazystory.
Yeah, so John Williams composedthe film Score, which earned

(49:23):
him an Academy Award and waslater ranked the sixth greatest
score by American Film Institute.
The main shark theme, a simplealternating pattern of two notes
variously identified as E and For F and F sharp, becamecame a
classic piece of suspense musicsynonymous with approaching

(49:45):
danger.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
I promise you I did not sing that in E and F.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
I don't know notes.
Williams described the theme asgrinding away at you just as a
shark would do Instinctual,relentless, unstoppable.
The piece was performed by tubaplayer Tommy Johnson.
When asked by Johnson why themelody was written in such a
high register and not played bythe more appropriate French horn
, william responded that hewanted it to sound a little more

(50:12):
threatening.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
It was fucking scary.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
It's the scariest two notes ever played.
Yes, still yes.
If you were to play that rightnow, I would be like uh-oh.
When Williams firstdemonstrated his idea to
Spielberg playing just the twonotes on a piano Spielberg was
said to have laughed, thinkingthat it was a joke, as Williams
saw similarities between Jawsand pirate movies at other

(50:35):
points in the score he evokedpirate music, which he called
primal but fun and entertaining,just like pirates, yeah, which
he called primal but fun andentertaining Just like pirates
Calling for rapid percussivestring playing.
The score contains echoes ofClaude Debussy's La Mer and of
Igor Stravinsky's the Rites ofSpring.
There are variousinterpretations of the meaning

(50:57):
and effectiveness of the primarymusic theme, which is widely
described as one of the mostrecognizable cinematic themes of
all time.
I can't even fathom someone notknowing that Music scholar
Joseph Canceliero proposes thatthe two note expression mimics
the shark's heartbeat.
According to Alessandro Teiss,the thing that, like themes,

(51:20):
bernard Herman wrote for taxidriver North, north by Northwest
and particularly MysteriousIsland, it suggests human
respiration.
He further argues that thescene's strongest motif, the
score's strongest motif, isactually the split, the rapture,
when it dramatically cuts off,as after Chrissy's death.
The relationship between soundand silence is also taken

(51:41):
advantage of in the way thataudience is conditioned to
associate the shark with itstheme.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Yeah, I don't need the artsy fartsy explanations of
what the.
It's just fucking scary andit's two notes and it's perfect.
Yeah, it's no heartbeat orbreathing or any crap like that,
it's the shark is coming foryou.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
You better watch it, yep.
And if I was a lifeguard on thebeach, I can tell you that I
would play that at the end ofevery day.
Oh my God, you have to Like,don't you have to at some point?

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, instead of blowing the whistle and making
everybody come out at fiveo'clock and then they can go in
on their free will afterward,just play the music and
everybody leaves.
Yeah, or you can stay and geteaten by a great white.
It's up to you.
That's your problem.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Which we do have great whites off here.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
We do.
They come very close and withclimate change, which is real,
our water is getting very warmhere.
I actually saw on the news Wasit a Delaware beach or a Jersey?
I think it was a Jersey beach.
The jellyfish are like huge.
They're like human head sizeand the families are like.

(52:49):
They used to be like little,little and now they're huge.
I hate jellyfish.
I hate jellyfish.
They're the worst.
They're so bad.
I would never go in the oceanlate summer Cause they wouldn't
come until the waters got warm.
So bad.
I would never go in the oceanlate summer because they
wouldn't come until the watersgot warm, but now it's fucking
warm all the time.
Do you know they're immortaland you don't like them?

Speaker 3 (53:08):
I don't want to be immortal, maybe if I was a glob
of jelly.
But you like things that areyou like things that are
immortal.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
It's true.
You like the song my immortal.
You need to revisit Jellyfish.
I don't.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
They're globs of goo they are.
Spielberg later said thatwithout Williams' score, the
film would have been only halfas successful and, according to
Williams, it jumpstarted hiscareer.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, I don't even know.
I don't think there is a Jawswithout that film.
I don't think you can imagineit without it.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
Yeah, I mean, the two go hand in hand.
Yeah.
He had previously scoredSpielberg's debut feature, the
Sugarland Express, and went onto collaborate with the director
on almost all of his films.
It's kind of like a Tim BurtonDanny Elfman situation.
Yes, Not that I have to bringTim Burton and everything.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
It's okay it's okay.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
The original soundtrack for jaws was released
by mca records on lp in 1975and as a cd in 1992, including
roughly a half hour of musicthat williams redid for the
album is there like a fiveminutes of in?
2000 the two versions of thescore were released.
Decca Universal reissued thesoundtrack album to coincide
with the release of the 25thanniversary DVD featuring the

(54:28):
entire 51 minutes of theoriginal score.
Jaws won three Academy Awards,those being for Best Film
Editing, best Original DramaticScore and Best Sound.
So Spielberg didn't get any ofthose for Best Film Editing,
best Original Dramatic Score andBest.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Sound so Spielberg didn't get any of those.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
It was also nominated for Best Picture, losing to One
.
Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, oh, well, that's fair.
Spielberg greatly resented thefact that he was not nominated
for Best Director.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yeah, and that's fair too.
Yeah, I mean, if you're goingto lose with Jaws, One Flew Over
the Cuckoo's Nest is notshameful to lose to because that
movie is amazing.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
No, but I see Spielberg.
I mean he had to overcome a lotof it, yeah, and he was still
just a kid.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
It was only his second movie, and One Flew Over
the Cuckoo's Nest had Jack in it.
It did have Jack in it.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
I can never remember if it's Nicholas or Nicholson,
so that's why I stopped.
I know and.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
I enjoy golf and Jack , whoever he is, movies, and I
still can't keep them straight,and I can't either.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
It's very hard.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
It's so annoying.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
I know I'm always like Jack Nicholson Nicholas,
whoever the actor is.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Jack J, yeah, whoever the actor is Jack J.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yeah.
Along with the Academy Award,John Williams and his score won
the Grammy Award, the BAFTAAward and the Golden Globe Award
.
To her Academy Award, VernaFields added the American Cinema
Editor's Eddie Award for BestEdited Feature Film.
The film was voted FavoriteMovie at the People's Choice

(56:04):
Awards.
It was also nominated for BestFilm Director, Best Film
Director Actor, Richard Dreyfuss, Screenplay, Editing and Sound
at the 29th British Academy FilmAwards.
And Best Motion Picture DramaDirector and Screenplay at the
33rd Golden Globe Awards.
Spielberg was nominated by theDirectors Guild of America for

(56:25):
the DGA Damn.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
That movie did make his career yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
There are three sequels Jaws 2 in 78, jaws 3D in
1983, and Jaws the Revenge in87, and all of them are horrible
.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
I don't think I've ever seen any of them.
They're terrible.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
Yeah, jaws 2's not bad, but Spielberg did not do
any of the other sequels.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Oh, and Richard Dreyfuss and all of them aren't
in it either.
Brody is in the second one.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Okay, I don't think he's in the no third one is 3d.
Yeah, jaws, 3d and then um,jaws, the revenge is the last
one and it's in.
I want to say one of them's setin the bahamas and it's brody's
son, michael, and the sharkchases him down there like the
shark's baby or I don't know.
That's stupid, it's not worthit.

(57:20):
It's not worth it.
It's not worth it.
If you would like to know moreabout Atlantic white sharks and
their conservation efforts, youcan go to Atlantic white
sharkorg or you can go to theocean conservancyorg for the
ocean conservancy If you wouldlike to learn more about great
whites and how to protect them.

(57:41):
So that's what I have, exceptfor the fun facts.
Yay, fun facts In Hawaii andCalifornia, where they have an.
I don't think it's actuallyHawaii, it might not be, it
might just be California.
Anyway, california, off thecoast, has a real big problem
with great whites attackingsurfers because they look like

(58:03):
seals.
So they the locals there callthem the men in the gray suits,
and they do this so they don'tfreak everybody out.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
I think I've heard that before.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
That was probably told me.
Maybe I learned it on one ofthe shark week.
You probably told me Maybe Ilearned it on one of the Shark
Week.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
They named the shark Bruce after Spielberg's lawyer,
Bruce Raymer.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
In 2001, the Library of Congress selected Jaws for
preservation in the UnitedStates National Film Registry.
This is one of my favorite funfacts.
It has since become a traditionfor Spielberg to be absent when
the final scene of one of hisfilms is being shot.
He does not watch the lastscene of any of his movies.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I love that.
I know Because of Jaws, that isso cool.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
I mean, that's probably superstition, right
there.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Yeah, for sure.
I've heard that actors andpeople in theater are very
superstitious.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
You're not allowed to say.
You have to say the Scottishplay instead of Macbeth when
you're in a theater.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
I'm not superstitious , but I am a little stitious.
I stole that from Michael Scotton the Office.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
I am very superstitious Because I am a
gambler.
Yeah, yeah, herman melville'smovie dick is the most notable
artistic antecedent to jaws.
The character of quincestrongly resembles captain ahab,
the obsessed captain of thepequod who devotes his life to
hunting a sperm whale.
Quince monologue reveals asimilar obsession with sharks.

(59:42):
Even his boat, the Orca, isnamed after the only natural
enemy of the white shark.
In the novel and originalscreenplay, quint dies after
being dragged under the ocean bya harpoon tied to his leg,
similar to the death of Ahab inMelville's novel.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Red Moby Dick in high school too.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
I have Red Moby Dick.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It's really hard to get through.
It's very long, it's very long,it's very boring in parts.
I actually think in high schoolwe had sections to read.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Yeah, I don't think they made us read.
It's like 800 pages long.
Yeah, it's really long and it'sreally like all boating stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Yes, somebody was very excited about their uh
obsession.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
yes, really had a thing for white whales.
Yes, for the film's 50thanniversary, the 2025 tsm
classic film festival held aspecial screening followed by a
limited theatrical re-releasethat will be from August 29th to
September 4th 2025.
Alongside a celebratoryexhibition at the Academy Museum

(01:00:49):
of Motion Pictures in LosAngeles, which I can tell you
right now that I, from August29th to September 4th, will in
fact be going to see Jaws, and Iheard a rumor that they're
going to put it in IMAX.
What?

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
I love me some IMAX.
I know you do.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Peter Benchley, who wrote the novel, had a cameo as
a TV reporter in the film.
The shark in Finding Nemo isnamed Bruce, a nod to the
mechanical shark in Jaws.
The slate, also known as sticksclapperboard or clapboard, is a
well-known tablet with a hingedtop that gets clapped down to
mark the beginning of a filmscene.

(01:01:32):
For Jaws, the normally flatedge was replaced with a sharp
set of teeth uppers and lowers.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Nice no.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Shaw.
Back to Shaw, who is aplaywright and an actor, had
just arrived with his wife, maryyou're, and their elegant not
man servant, eric harrison.
I enjoyed the elegant manservant.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Elegant man, sir, I mean, that sounds dirty, uh-huh
and fancy all at the same timeto mar Martha's Vineyard to
begin filming.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Imagine their shock that the first night when a
local eccentric fired a fewrifle bullets through the front
door of the rental house, whichpenetrated walls and even
chipped tiles in the downstairsbath, yeehaw the bullets weren't
meant for the star, however.
The locals thought that theplace was empty, and all credit
to Harrison who was the firstthought that the place was empty
, and all credit to harrison whowas the first, out of the door

(01:02:25):
in robe and slippers, examinedthe fresh bullet holes in the
doors, proclaiming I believethey're shooting, sir so they
assumed a house was empty andstarted shooting bullets into it
, and they almost they tried.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Maybe that's what's happening in philly when people
are dying in their houses.
Maybe, speaking of Philly, realquick to go off topic, I watch
the Philly News.
Do you know what's going on upthere right now?
They are in day nine.
Oh, the trash thing Of theunion strike and I am full on

(01:03:01):
supporting the union.
Although I love Philadelphia'smayor I think her name is Sheree
, I can't think of her name, butshe's awesome, I love her.
Yeah, so it's been nine days inthis fucking 100 degree heat and
people are taking their trashto the dump sites around town.
Like they keep dumpsters aroundthe city where people can take
their trash because, like here,you drive to the landfill or you

(01:03:23):
put your thing on the curb, butthey don't have that there.
So it's stinky and bug andanimal infested and disgusting.
And they are still.
They were supposed to meettoday.
The union wants a 20 over fouryearyear increase.
The city's saying 13 over thenext four years and they aren't

(01:03:47):
budging.
But apparently the city's goingto come with a new offer today,
can I just tell you I probablyshouldn't, but our new contract.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
We're getting a 1% raise.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
I get my 2% raise starting August 1st Maybe.
I'll say but they also live inthe city and they have strong
unions and they are doing a very.
I wouldn't want to do their jobfor any amount of money, so I
think they should get paid.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Oh, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Oh, here's the reason I should get paid too here.
Agree with you.
Oh, here's the reason that Iget paid too here was the best
part about it, though.
Did you hear about ll?
I did not hear about ll sofourth of july they always have
a huge party in um, philadelphia, and ll was the headliner and
the day or two before he went onthe TikTok or Instagram or

(01:04:45):
something and said I cannot goout here and perform and take
money while people are fightingfor a living wage.
And he pulled out of the.
He said if you fix it beforethe concert, I will perform.
And he stayed in Philly just incase.
But it didn't happen and hestood by the union workers like
I needed another reason tofucking love LL Cool J it's hard
to not love, that there's notmany reasons to not love, and he

(01:05:08):
was very upset to let thepeople of philadelphia down, but
he said he just could not getup there and perform, knowing
that was going on.
Well good that's good I knowsorry to interrupt your story,
but I meant to say all that inthe beginning and I forgot.
Okay, back to my fun facts.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
Just like alfred hitchcock, who famously appears
in his cameos in his own films,the young director spielberg
shows up in jaws in two arcaneand only audible places.
One, his voice crackles overthe radio of quint's boat, the
orca, as the amity Islanddispatcher that patches Brody
through to his wife when thechief is out with Quint and

(01:05:47):
Hooper.
Two for a scene including alocal band marching through town
.
On the Fourth of July, famedcomposer John Williams was
afraid to ask his professionalorchestra to sound well amateur,
but Spielberg had alreadyprofessed his love of playing
clarinet in his high school bandto sound well amateur, but
Spielberg had already professedhis love of playing clarinet in
his high school band to Williams.
And that was just the amateurtouch.

(01:06:07):
The soundtrack needed.
Spielberg picked up theclarinet again playing a Sousa
March with Williams' orchestra,and several perfectly flawed
bars made it to the final filmcut Police.
Chief Brody's dogs are playedby the director's cocker,
spaniels, elmer and zalman.
And you're gonna need a biggerboat, uttered unforgettably by

(01:06:31):
roy schneider.
It was improvised by the actoron the day of shooting wow, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
That's so cool, that's like it's an iconic yeah,
wow.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
The sound of jaws fin coursing through the water was
created by spraying Coke ontoconcrete.
In the book, hooper and Brody'swife Ellen are having an affair
.
I know Scandal Filming thescene where the grieving Mrs
Kittner confronts Brody over thedeath of her son Alex.
Actress Leigh Fierro slappedSchneider 17 times in one day.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Hard.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
And people have always, since the movie,
approached her and requestingshe slap them.
That is my fun facts Yay, yay.
That was so much fun, jaws, Ilove it.
I have been waiting forever foryou to do this one.
I love me.
Fun Jaws, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
I have been waiting forever for you to do this one.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
I love me some Jaws yeah go watch it.
What I say August 29th toSeptember 4th go check it out in
the theaters.
I would love to you should besupporting the local theaters.
Did you know?
I did not know this untilrecently.
I would love to you should besupporting the local theaters.
Did you know?
I did not know this untilrecently movie theaters do not

(01:07:51):
get to keep the money for themovie that you pay for, the
movie that goes to the studios.
The money that a theater makesis off the food.
Yeah, they don't get any of themoney from the ticket sales.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Do they get paid by the movie place to?

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
run there?
I don't think so.
I think they only make moneyoff of the food.
So that's why a small popcorncosts $57.
That's why you have to take asmall loan out to get popcorn.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
It's so good though it's totally worth it.
I mean really I don't know Alsoso good, though it's totally
worth it.
I mean really I don't know Alsocheck it out.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Shark Week is at the end of July.
Protect the Great Whites.
Yes, they're my favorite shark.
They have been around beforedinosaurs.
They are pretty much theperfect predator and apparently
their livers taste really goodto orca.

(01:08:47):
Don't kill them that's justgross and you're not allowed to
fish, you're not allowed tocatch them, you have to throw
them back.
The white marlin open is comingup.
The first week of August.
I love the white marlin open,but sometimes somebody'll
somebody will catch a great wine.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
They have to put it back wow not allowed to have it
um I wouldn't want to bring thatsucker in my boat.
No, they will bite your ass.
So yeah, that's it okay, nicework, awesome.
Thank you so much, and youperfectly placed it between the
anniversary and Shark Week.
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
There we go.
That's going to rewind.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
That's exactly why.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
Thank you for listening.
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Find us where you listen to thepodcasts.
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(01:09:50):
Or don't like whatever.
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