What's Cookin Good Lookin

From Julia Child's kitchen to Gordon Ramsay's Hell's Kitchen, cooking shows have transformed dramatically over the decades. What started as humble instructional programming has evolved into a multi-billion dollar entertainment empire that has fundamentally changed how we think about, talk about, and consume food.

In this episode, we trace the fascinating evolution of food television from its educational public broadcasting roots in the 1960s through its commercial explosion in the 1990s. We explore how pioneering shows like "The French Chef" and "Yan Can Cook" demystified global cuisines for American audiences, before cable television and the launch of Food Network in 1993 revolutionized the format, turning chefs into celebrities and cooking into competitive sport.

The conversation takes unexpected turns as we share our personal connections to restaurant life and cooking. You'll hear why one of us passionately hates the term "foodie," what it's really like working in a professional kitchen (hint: it's nothing like TV makes it seem), and why that first cigarette after a kitchen shift feels so damn good. Plus, we reveal Julia Child's surprising connection to shark repellent during WWII and how it launched her cooking career.

Whether you're a cooking show devotee or just someone who appreciates good food, this episode offers a delicious deep dive into how television transformed our relationship with cooking - creating a world where we paradoxically watch more cooking shows while actually cooking less at home. Join us for this entertaining exploration of how food television went from teaching Americans how to make a proper French omelet to turning food into the ultimate form of entertainment.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:20):
We're never done as ever laughing and sharing our
stories.
Clever, we'll take you back.
It's like whatever.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Welcome to Like Whatever a podcast for.
By and about Gen X, I'm Nicoleand this is my BFF, heather.
Hello.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
So what's new?
Um you know.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Don't act like you haven't been obsessing over
something.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I have.
It's the White Marlin Open herein Ocean City, maryland and it
is my favorite time of year Do Igo out in the ocean and fish.
No, have I ever been out in theocean to fish.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
No.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Will I ever go out into the ocean to fish?
Probably not.
I've actually never been out inthe ocean on a boat once.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
That's crazy and that was when my uncle died, and we
tossed him over the side.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Um, good times.
Yeah, so I have not actually,but for me, the white marlin
open is something I remember asa kid.
Because for those of you whohave no idea, what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's a.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
It's a bill fishing tournament and it's the largest
bill fishing tournament in theworld at this point and it
started in our humble littlearea, um of ocean city, maryland
, and every year my dad wouldtake us down to the docks and we
would watch back in the daywhen it was just teeny, tiny
little.
They hardly had any boats, itwas only one day of fishing.

(01:47):
My dad has fished in it severaltimes, my mom has a marlin from
it, my grandfather, so it'sjust one of those things that's
very nostalgic for me.
So every year I like to obsessover it.
Yes, that's been.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
It started Monday and they've even extended it two
days because of there's a Idon't know if it's a hurricane
or tropical storm out there, sothat's my current yeah, I went
to it like eight, nine, tenyears ago, I don't know a long
time ago, and yeah, it's, it's.

(02:25):
It's a lot of fun just to bedown there they have um.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
I was just showing mom before you got here.
They have a contest.
There's a bar over at theharbor where all the boats slip
um called sunset grill.
Shout out to sunset grill.
They have a contest of thebiggest bar tab every year and
they post it and it's always onsunday night because that's the
night before the.

(02:50):
I think this year it was 20, 20900 was the fire tab.
This is they bring in specialbartenders for this week, this
week alone.
I mean, michael jordan justshowed up today.
His boat showed up monday andwell, his boat fished monday but
he showed up today.
That's how big of a tournamentit is.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
It brings I did see jordan's boat when I was down
there?
Yes, I did not see him by it'shuge it is very big and I got my
picture taken with one of theguys from Deadliest.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Catch.
Yeah, it was Deadliest Catch.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Wild Bill.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yep, and the guys from the tuna.
Whatever the tuna catching showis oh yeah, Wicked Tuna.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
They enter out.
It's a big deal.
Well, I was watching before shegot here.
The first qualifying whitemarlin came in and the fish is
now worth $4 million, so it beatout the blue marlin.
That was 929 pounds, which noone cares about but me, but
that's what we have it on rightnow on my phone.

(03:58):
I'm watching it out of thecorner of my eye.
It's just something I've alwaysenjoyed.
I always.
My grandfather and my uncle areboth fishing.
They, they were big intofishing.
Um, my grandfather used to takeus fishing all the time and I
was like, because I was a weirdchild, I was obsessed with

(04:19):
finding out what was in thefish's belly.
So I would stand there andwhile he cleaned it and I would
have to, like he would point outall the organs and open the
stomach, just so you could seewhat the flounder had just eaten
.
Um, so I just I don't fish.
I did, but I don't anymorebecause a I don't like touching

(04:39):
bait and putting it on a hookand all that.
That.
That's gross.
I don't want to clean a fish.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, I grew up fishing.
I've mentioned before that mygrandparents had a beach house
and we just ran wild down there.
But yeah, I've never been a fanof bait Like I can do pieces of
squid and stuff, but especiallybloodworms.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
They're so gross.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
But as much as I am grossed out by everything like
as far as like anatomy, blood,all that stuff I used.
I had my own fillet knife.
I used to catch my own fish.
I would clean my own fish andgutting them never bothered me.
But that's just how much I lovefish.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
I never liked the bait.
I uh well, I shouldn't say thatbecause for flounder you use
minnows and I never liked thatyou have to hook them live.
But when I was a kid we wouldfish for them and my friend had
a minnow trap.
So because we live right at theend of the yellow and white one
with the black door, and my momwould get very mad because we

(05:51):
would go fish across that wenever caught anything we just
kind of chucking fishing rods in, but I don't know why.
But I would put the minnows inmy pockets to carry them around
and she would open the washingmachine and there'd be dead
minnows in the bottom of herwashing machine for me to come
in.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
You shouldn't do that , no.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
No, it's mean Take the minnows out of your pocket.
But we lost Lonnie Andersonthis week.
We did yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
She's one of those I had kind of forgotten about
until I saw it yeah, and I waslike oh, yeah, I loved her.
Yeah, she was awesome back thenyeah, wkrp in cincinnati, yeah
that was a good show.
It was a good show.
I've been watching some goldengirls lately.
I love the golden girl.
It's so funny.
It is funny like laugh out loud, funny.

(06:42):
And now we we're that age, Iknow it's even funnier.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Now.
What's more relatable?

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I watched the Nona's movie on Netflix.
Have you seen it yet?
No, so it's based on a truestory, an Italian restaurant in
New York and Vince Vaughn starsin it, and the premise of the
story is that this boy grows upwith his mom and his Nona and

(07:08):
he's very interested in whatthey're doing in the kitchen,
but he doesn't grow up to doanything like that.
He works in like a factory or awarehouse or something, and so
when his mom dies Nona's alreadydead.
He starts trying to make theirrecipes because he misses their
food and he's really good at it.

(07:29):
So he gets an inheritance lifeinsurance inheritance and his
best friend and his wife whichhis wife is Chrissy from the
Sopranos.
They tell him you know, dosomething you've always wanted
to do with it, like go big.
So he decides he's going to goto Staten Island and buy this

(07:50):
restaurant and he's going tohire nonas to cook.
I have heard the true story ofthis.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
And so he hires three nonas to cook and then one, who
is Susan Sarandon, to be thebaker.
She's awesome in it.
God, she's still so stunninglygorgeous.
It's ridiculous, but there'sthis one scene.
So she owns a hair salon andthe other nonas are typical

(08:19):
Italian nonas.
So she takes them in there fora night of beauty one night, oh
boy.
And it is just such a wonderfulscene.
Like she does all their hair,all their makeup, they sit
around and get drunk and it'sjust so cute it's.
It's a really cute movie.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
But I know how it feels to miss the italian food
yeah, you my mother doesn't cookanymore.
That's a shame, I know.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Mine doesn't either, Like she hasn't for years.
She used to be a really goodcook and now everything is
processed and quick and easy andso lame.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, she doesn't make nothing anymore.
I mean she will if hergrandchildren ask.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Of course the rest of us can go fuck ourselves, I
guess well then, you need to getyour niece and nephew to ask
for you.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
I do, I totally do, when it's time for pizzelles and
I'm I text the boy and I'm likeyo because he likes him.
The girl doesn't, but the boydoes, and I'm always like yo.
Ask your mom for some freakingpizzelles.
Kid, what are you doing to meexactly?
And then I have to make surethat they're evenly distributed

(09:29):
between the two of us, because Idon't want.
That's not right that he getsmore than me.
He already gets enough morethan me, so exactly he gets.
He is the apple of my mother'seye it's so funny too, because
my dad, my dad always wantedboys.
He's always made that perfectlyclear.
He has always wanted boys andhe ended up with girls.
Those are exact words that hehas always said I wanted the

(09:54):
boys and I ended up with girls.
So when my sister had the boy,the boy just turned 20.
When my sister had the boy,well, we thought well, there you
go, there's your boy.
He doesn't even know what to dowith him, so the boy is the
apple of my I mean, my mother'swhole world revolves around that

(10:15):
kid and and he loves his mamalike nobody loves their mama
more than he does and then mysister had the girl and he's
she's pop-up's girl, like pop-up.
She calls and pop up comes.
Whenever she calls hey, pop-up,I want to ride the bike, he
comes and picks her up on hismotorcycle takes her wherever
she wants to go.

(10:36):
It's just hilarious.
We have this picture and it'smy favorite picture of them.
They're under his car, workingon whatever, and it's his legs
hanging out and her teeny, tinylittle legs hanging out and
she's got like ripped off upgirly jeans on and the best part
is she's got like leopard printflats on so it's like him and

(10:58):
his boots and her teeny tinylittle.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
But he I guess he didn't actually want a boy no,
because he just wants to makeyou feel bad for not being a boy
he never really roughhousedwith the boy, nothing but the
girl.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh, he flings her all over everywhere and she loves,
she loves it.
She's pop-up's girl and shecould probably care less about.
And she texts him all the timeand they time they probably text
each other more than she textsmy sister, to be honest well,
that's fair.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
My youngest never texts me.
Even when I text her, I have tosend her some guilt text like
why are you ignoring me?
She's like I'm not ignoring you.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, you kind of are check the last text you sent
yeah, 12 days ago.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah or look how long it's been since I text you a
question and you haven't evenanswered it there's a a kind of
an upswing in um earthquakeshere.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Uh yeah, it's a little concerning.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
It is, yeah, that one off of Russia.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Created tsunamis.
Yeah, there's one in New York acouple days later.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, good times.
First trying to shake us offlike fleas.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
I don't blame it, I'm being honest, I do not blame it
.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
It has had enough of us.
I have as well.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
So anything else you want to add.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
I can't think of anything.
I had a really fun day Friday.
My daughter turned 25 onSaturday, so happy birthday to
my girl.
So we both took Friday off andwe went to the beach and ate at
the most popular restaurant atthe beach and went to the
outlets to go shopping and justhad a fun day.

(12:52):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, it was awesome.
It's a nice beach.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, it is, and it was a beautiful day.
Oh my gosh, that was a cool dayright, yes, it was, I was
almost cold.
I almost took a sweater with meand I was like that's crazy
talk because it's been as hot asthe surface of the sun for a
week.
But then I got down there I waslike damn I imagine by the
water it was yeah, she evenlooked at me at one point.

(13:16):
She's like why do you havegoosebumps?
I was like I told you I'mfreezing, it's cold down here.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
It was an absolutely beautiful.
If it could be like that allthe time here, and the waves
were nuts.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
They were so high, that's because we have that.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
I don't know if it's a hurricane or what.
It is Dexter, which is ahorrible name.
I love it For a storm, I don'tknow whose idea that?
Was.
I hope it's a serial hurricaneyeah.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
It was gorgeous it was super awesome yeah all right
, well, let's get to her.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
She doesn't know what the subject is because she
never looked.
She never reads my emails.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
I don't they were good this week too, but in all
fairness, I don't read mostpeople's emails.
I sent you two today too, oneof them you really should read.
And last last night I did anevent for it was National Night
Out across the country lastnight and they always hold one
at one of the schools that Iwork with for my job and I've

(14:15):
worked at like the past fiveyears.
And, yeah, I had a couple ofparents approach me last night
and they were like I emailed you.
I'm like oh, I promise I'llanswer you tomorrow.
The one I answered her at likeeight this morning.
She wrote back.
Oh, my gosh, you wrote back.
I was like yes, I just have somany emails to get sorry.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, you really should read one of mine.
Okay, it's important businessrelated stuff All right.
Yeah, I'm trying to.
We'll see.
I'm trying to get us a sponsor,oh.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, so, oh yeah.
So it's like there's realemails I should read yes, oh.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yep, there is Okay yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Anyway, I feel like I'm at that event last night.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
again, I will look it up, okay uh, so let's fuck
around and find out aboutcooking shows.
Oh, I love it, do you, lord Yay?
This is a subject near and verydear to my heart because, as

(15:27):
everyone who listens at anypoint would know, that I grew up
in a restaurant, mm-hmm, and Igrew up to be a cook.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
And then I stopped doing that and I sadly miss it
every day, because when you're arestaurant person, it is built
into your DNA.
It is, and it is definitelybuilt into my DNA.
So as a child I watched all ofthem.
We played cook and waitressoutside.

(15:59):
We would have to go to the busin the morning and while we were
waiting for that my dad had toopen the restaurant.
So we would be in there playingrestaurant while we waited and
I was always the cook and mysister was always the server.
She did not end up being aserver.
She did not.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
She grew up to be a cook as well.
She was also a cook.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yes, so the first televised program was the French
Chef, which aired in the US in1963.
The show was presented by JuliaChild and was followed by a
number of other cooking programs, including the Galloping
Gourmet and Ready Steady Cook.
These early TV chefs were oftenconsidered to be eccentric and

(16:45):
their shows were popular fortheir mix of cooking tips and
entertainment.
julia child in particular wasknown for her enthusiastic
presenting style and hercatchphrase bon appetit the
period spanning the 80s and 90smarked a profound transformation

(17:17):
in culinary television,shifting from a predominantly
educational public broadcastingmodel to a more dynamic,
entertainment-driven andcommercially-backed format.
The 80s established a foundationby demystifying gourmet cooking
and introducing diverse globalcuisines to home audiences
through charismaticinstructional hosts.

(17:39):
This era, largely supported bypublic television, cultivated a
growing national interest infood.
The 90s, catalyzed by theemergence of cable television
and the launch of the FoodNetwork, accelerated this
evolution.
New formats, includingcompetitive shows and lifestyle
programming, proliferated andchefs ascended to celebrity

(18:01):
status, becoming influentialcultural figures.
And chefs ascended to celebritystatus, becoming influential
cultural figures.
The commercialization anddiversification not only
reflected but also activelyshaped evolving culinary tastes,
promoting globalization andhealth consciousness.
Cooking shows of the 80s servedas accurate barometers of
societal change, adapting theircontent and character to reflect

(18:22):
and influence prevailing trends.
It began to cater to burgeoninginterest in more lavish
lifestyles and culinary excess,while the late 90s represent
responded to a celebrity hungryreality, crazed audience oh,
yeah, yeah it's.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
I bet it was exciting for both people that like to
cook and the spouses of peoplethat like to cook, because it
was pretty much the BettyCrocker cookbook back then and
whatever hand-me-down recipesyou had on index cards until
then.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah.
I mean, and of course Juliabrought in.
You know French food and youknow probably not a lot of
people, unless you had frenchheritage probably eating a lot
of of the typical french cuisine.
Yep, the pervasive influence ofthese programs also played a
critical role in redefining thevery concept of a foodie, which,

(19:18):
can I just tell you, I fuckinghate the word foodie fucking
hate foodies, I hate anyone.
Sorry if you decided thatyou're a foodie, but I don't
like that.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
It's stupid do you have a reason why so many I have
?

Speaker 2 (19:35):
just because I have feelings about that too it's
because I owned a restaurant andI can't take foodies well, yeah
, and I mean just, everybodylikes different kinds of things.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
So who are you to say what's the best and what's good
and where you shouldn't eat?
I know.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
That's my issue with reviewers Right Like what if you
don't like chicken cordon bleu?
But it's the best fuckingchicken cordon bleu on the
planet, exactly, but you don'tlike it Exactly, fuck foodies,
I'm sorry.
Planet, exactly, but you don'tlike it exactly.
Fuck foodies, I don't sorry, Ihate it.
I hate the word, I hate them.
One time we were eating in a ina bar in ocean pines at the bar

(20:12):
, we were at the bar I mean, itwas a decent mid-level
restaurant, right, and we had tosit at the bar because there
was nobody else.
But this person had specificallysat at the bar to sit at the
fucking bar and was trying tohave conversation, and you know
I don't like having strangerdanger and he was like, well,
I'm a foodie, and I almost justpunched him in the face.

(20:34):
I had to look at my husband andI was like hurry up and eat.
We're getting the fuck up outof here.
I can't take foodies, you'renot.
You're in fucking ocean.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Pines, calm down yeah , I mean I like posting about
the foods I make because I lovemy cooking exactly, but I'm not.
I mean I'll post food if I gotto eat, if it looks super pretty
I don't even have a problemwith that.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Just don't call yourself a fucking foodie right
and don't review it.
And if you?

Speaker 1 (21:02):
got to eat and you didn't like it.
Don't say anything.
Yeah, I mean do you know?
How bad you hurt restaurantswhen you do stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Don't go back there.
That's what I'm saying.
Like, we all eat, we're allfoodies.
We all eat, exactly.
Take it down a notch, you're nomore special than I am.
I digress.
In the mid 80s, the termpopularized by writers Paul Levy
and Ann Barr carried a somewhatexclusive connotation,
typically referring to dedicatedgourmet home chefs who actively

(21:31):
sought out rare ingredients andpossessed considerable
financial means.
And that's what I'm trying tosay.
Like that's what started.
And now Billy Bob on the sideof says oh, I'm a foodie.
No, you're not.
You never left Sussex County.
You're not a fucking foodie.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
You don't like to cook and you like to go out to
eat, so You're a restaurant-y.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
You're a lazy.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
You're a customer.
Yeah, yeah, that's what you are.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
By the close of the 90s, however, the landscape had
dramatically changed.
The widespread accessibility ofcooking shows, amplified by the
Internet, contributed tomillions identifying as foodies,
though a more precisedescription for many might be
food TV enthusiasts.
Yes, it's a hobby.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
If you watch food shows and you like to try to
make those recipes, it's calleda hobby.
My favorite is when thesepeople think they can open a
restaurant.
Yeah, it's a hobby.
If you watch food shows and youlike to try to make those
recipes, it's called a hobby.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
My favorite is when these people think they can open
a restaurant.
Yeah, no you can't.
Right, you have no idea.
Right, not a single clue.
That's why they all fold.
That's why restaurants fold inthree years.
You can get past three years,you're good, but most
restaurants fold in the firstyear, year and a half, because
you have no idea, yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
None, exactly, and I love cooking, as I just said,
but I like my own food betterthan I like most food when I go
out to eat.
And I had another point withthat, I don't remember what it
was, except my food.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
She loves my food.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Oh, I remember.
I never really watch, as muchas I love food I do.
God, your cheese omelets oh myGod, I made myself a cheese
omelet this morning and yourrosa sauce.
I cannot master your rosa sauce.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Nope, it tastes pretty good.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
That's a known.
As to the secret ingredient,and he was like I don't know her
secret ingredient and she waslike that's what makes it you're
known as gravy is that youdon't know the secret ingredient
.
He ends up figuring it out attrial and error.
But, um, or maybe you find Idon't know anyway.
But yeah, I don't even likewatching cooking shows.

(23:39):
I don't follow recipe bookslike I know what ingredients I
enjoy.
I know what things go togetherlike.
The other night I had madegrilled italian chicken uh,
chicken breasts on the grill,duh, grilled um, and I bought
pita, um pitas, because I'vebeen on a big hummus kick lately

(23:59):
.
I love hummus and I had freshtomatoes out in the yard and
fresh basil out in the yard.
So I like drizzled the pitawith olive oil, chopped up the
grilled chicken, put the bigchunky Parmesan and Romano on it
and sliced tomatoes and basiland just put it in like a low

(24:22):
heat oven, just enough to likewarm it up and melt the cheese.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Oh well, it was so good the weird thing about me is
I don't like 90 of the stuff Imake yeah, but you still make it
really good, I know the way Ifeel with my chicken salad
because, like, okay, I have toadmit the chicken salad isn't my
, it's my dad's and my sister's,but I do make it just as good.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Well, it's the family recipe, so that counts.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
But everybody at work is like, oh my God, what do you
put in it?
And I'm like I put in the sameshit everybody else does.
It's just about what ratio.
So how I do is if I dip it inthe mixture and it makes me go
like that and it makes me gag,then it's done, it's ready.
That's how I make most of myfood.

(25:12):
If it makes me nauseous, thenI'm like it probably tastes good
.
Then somebody should probablynot admit that.
I did like my gravy, though.
My gravy was good.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, I make really good gravy.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
My gravy recipe is stolen from several different
people, so mixed together.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Mine's made up on my own.
I am going to eventuallyperfect it.
I have decided that, well, I'mgoing to start yoga.
That's going to be a new hobby.
Nice, I started therapy.
That's a new hobby.
Yeah, no-transcript.

(25:51):
And just cooking in smallportions and just trying
different things and buyingdifferent ingredients, because I
want to go to the ethnicgrocery stores.
We have a lot of Hispanicgrocery stores around here.
We have a lot of Caribbean, andthen we're around cities if I
wanted to go get other stuff.
So I really want to startplaying around with different

(26:14):
things and making differentfoods, because it's so much fun.
It's a shame you don't likefood.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
I like making it.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
I don't like eating it.
It's a shame you don't likeeating it, I know.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
I make it and then I give it away.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, yeah, you're just missing out.
No, I mean, I know you don'tthink you are, I'm not.
I know that you're not.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
I'm just imposing my opinions on you, I like to bake
and I don't eat any of the stuffI bake.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
No, I don't like to bake.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
I like it all.
I miss it.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
I don't like baking because you have to be precise
with your measurements or elseit doesn't come out right and I
like to just throw shit in thereand see what happens.
So, yeah, baking's not for me.
I do like eating baked goods, Iknow I.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
I just don't have a very good kitchen where I live,
so it's not very conducive toyeah any of the yeah, if I ever
win the lottery, or this podcastmakes it to anything other than
what it is currently.
Um, I'm totally gonna get likewell, when we live together,
we're gonna get to get a nicesuper nice kitchen.

(27:16):
Like professional, I wantfucking Vulcan equipment in
there.
I want it to be a professional.
I'm picking it.
I will be the one doing ourkitchen.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
So is it going to look industrial, or can we make
it pretty?

Speaker 2 (27:32):
too.
You can make it any way youlook the equipment in.
There will be professionalequipment.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, I'm very, very, very good with that.
Yeah, I want a kitchen bigenough that I can have this
humongous island in the middleof it.
You can have whatever, but Idon't like any kind of granite
okay, you can have the wholehawaiian islands if you want in
there.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
I like the wooden countertops yeah, I don't give a
shit as long as I can have myvulcan oven, my Vulcan stovetop
and my Vulcan flat top.
What kind of mixer are we going?

Speaker 1 (28:03):
to have Hobart, because we might as well make
bread.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, but the Hobarts are so big we probably have to
just go with KitchenAid becausethey're small.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
The.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Hobarts are like way bigger than we need.
Yeah, so okay.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
All right, settled All right.
They were settled All right, sotell all your friends about the
podcast.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
So we can get this kitchen going.
We'll invite you over.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
We will.
I'll eat with you.
Heather will help me cook.
I'll cook it.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I'm really good at cooking for like two, three
hundred people at a time.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
The most I've ever cooked foris 700.
So there you go, I can.
I can have 700 of you over.
If you all give five dollars, Idon't think that's asking for a
whole lot.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
You know that only gets us thirty five hundred,
Right.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Right, that's enough For what I can get used
equipment.
Shine's enough For what I canget used equipment.
Shine it up.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
A KitchenAid.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, probably I forgot.
It's not 1997 anymore.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
No, and if we're going to get it, we're going to
be rich and get brand new shit.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Not auction stuff you have to clean up.
So all of you have to give ushow much.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Oh, is it still 700 people?
Yeah, oh, geez, we don't needto do math 10 grand.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
We're going to need 10 grand from each of you, or
you're going to need to tellyour friends it's like a pyramid
scheme, exactly so if you.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
You only have to give five, but your friends got to
give 10.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
You want to be your own boss.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Got some Avon going here?
Oh God, don't get me started.
Okay, we're going to go back tothe cooking shows.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
By the close of the 90s,however, the landscape had
dramatically changed.
The widespread oh, I did thatRoll up.
The transformation highlights adynamic interplay.

(30:01):
Societal interest in foodcreated a receptive audience,
which in turn encouragedbroadcasters and chefs to
innovate programming.
These innovations in turnfurther amplified the public's
engagement with food,democratizing culinary
appreciation and expanding itsreach beyond elite circles.
So let's talk about thefoundations.
Let's talk about thefoundations.
The 80s established a crucialgroundwork for the evolution of

(30:21):
culinary television,characterized by educational and
making gourmet cookingaccessible.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Of course, public broadcasting this was the same
time everybody thought theycould be a handyman, because
this old house was on.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Well it's funny because when I was looking this
up, this old house came up a lotand, oh shit, what was the
other one?

Speaker 1 (30:39):
my dad is the woodworking guys or something
like that my dad's not aparticular handyman, I mean he
will get in there and do what heneeds to.
He's more of a mechanic type ofguy.
But man, he loved him some,this Old House.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
We watched this Old House, bob Vila, bob Vila and.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Norm right Yep.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Norm had his own.
Norm took over after Bob Vilaleft.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thisOld House.
There's another one too, but Idon't remember.
Several influential programsand their charismatic hosts
define the culinary landscape ofthe 80s.
The Frugal Gourmet, hosted byJeff Smith, a United Methodist
minister who initially taughtfood as a sacrament at the
University of Puget Sound, bythe mid-80s the Frugal Gourmet

(31:23):
became the cooking show everyonewas watching.
The program, which aired from83 to 95, aimed to redefine
frugal not as cheap, but as thecareful use of time and food,
and gourmet as a lover of goodfood and wine, oh, but as the
careful use of time and food andgourmet, as a lover of good
food and wine.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Oh yeah, that's another reason I love cooking
because you drink wine while youcook.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Well, julia did, that's for sure.
She put most of it in hergullet rather than in the dish.
Smith was celebrated forbringing fine dining to regular
households.
His engaging style was markedby thoughtful, heartfelt details
and personal anecdotes thatconnected recipes to cultural
heritage.
He concluded each episode withthe memorable sign off eat well.

(32:06):
I bid you peace.
I don't remember the frugalgourmet.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
I don't feel like I do either, but it must not be
something my parents watchedBecause at that age it would
have been.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
It would be just weird, because he is the
Christian guy.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Well, my mom.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Okay.
Recipes featured on the showinclude beer and cheese soup,
applesauce, fruitcake andcreamed pearl onions smith, yeah
, I know smith's practice ofrecommending products also
signaled an early subtleintegration of commercial
elements into educationalprogramming.
In 97 seven men filed a civillawsuit against smith, charging

(32:48):
him with sexual abuse oh,shocker I know.
Six of them alleged that theywere molested as teenagers in
the 70s while working at theChamplain Champlain Pantry in
Tacoma.
The seventh claim that he wasassaulted in 92 at age 14, after
Smith picked him up as ahitchhiker.
Smith denied the allegationsand no criminal charges were

(33:09):
filed Shocker.
But he and his insurers settledthe case for an undisclosed
amount in 1998.
The litigation ended histelevision career, though he
continued his writing andcharitable work.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I just wanted to throw that in there.
Charitable work with kids Ijust wanted to throw that in
there yeah, maybe that's why wedon't remember it, because his
legacy would have been cut offat the knees at that point, yeah
, so now this next one.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
I fucking love this one.
This one, I watched all thetime and I can tell you right
now that I would have nevereaten any of the stuff that was
cooked on this, but I wanted towalk, so bad Yan can cook what's
my favorite.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
I make really good Asian food, if I must say so
myself.
Good for you.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
The show featured the energetic chef, martin Yan,
focusing on Chinese-orientedcooking, including stir-fried
dishes and traditional Chinesetechniques.
Originating in Canada in 1978,the series moved to PBS in San
Francisco in 1982.
Yan's presentation wascharacterized by humor, wit and
cultural references.
His iconic catchphrase if Yancan cook, so can you, and I knew

(34:21):
I was gonna.
I, I practiced this, I don'teven know how many times and
right now it went right out thewindow.
Sajuan goodbye in Mandarin uhbecame Sajuan is right Sajuan
yeah, I know, I looked at assoon as I'm telling you, I
practiced it 500 times and thenwhen I just this minute was, it

(34:41):
went right off the you're socute top of my head.
Uh, he was also known for hisfrantic food shopping, often
creating a rhythmic sound thatadded to the show's
entertainment value.
The program was typicallyfilmed on a stage, so he was my
favorite and I wanted a walk.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
I still want a walk.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
There was another cooking show that had walk.
I forget what it was called andI didn't put it in here, but I
wanted a walk.
And there's zero reason for meto have a walk.
I do actually have one but, I,don't ever use it for anything
it's use a wok so hard.
Maybe I'll just give you thewok I have, because I don't use

(35:21):
it properly.
I do make vegetables in it.
Sometimes I use it for yourhusband, yes, I don't eat that
shit.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
I know you're not eating it?

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Nope, great Chefs.
The franchise began with 13half-hour programs for PBS,
later expanding to the DiscoveryChannel in 1986.
Unique for its time, great Cheffeatured over a thousand chefs
from 51 countries, with segmentsrecorded entirely on location,
in professional restaurantkitchens rather than studios,

(35:55):
and that is why I loved itbecause to this day, when I go
into a restaurant and I can seetheir kitchen.
I want to see the motherfuckingkitchen, oh nothing I love an
industrial kitchen.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
I can still smell a kitchen, oh, and I was a
waitress, but I can still.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Yeah, Sometimes the noise of the machines wakes me
up in my sleep the ticketmachine.
The series distinguished itselfby having no hosts or
competition, allowing the chefsthemselves to be the central
focus.
It concentrated on cookingtechniques and was considered
evergreen due to its timelessinstructional value.

(36:35):
Programs typically showcasedthe preparation of one meal with
three dishes by three differentchefs, accompanied by clear,
precise instructions.
The franchise produced numerousregional series, such as Great
Chefs of New Orleans, GreatChefs of San Francisco and Great
Chefs of Chicago, and laterexpanded to include Great Chefs
of the East, Great Chef greatcities and great chefs of Hawaii

(36:57):
.
It was.
It also produced holiday andbarbecue specials, further
displaying its content.
Here's my other favorite oneBesides.
Julia, I did like Julia too.
Justin Wilson's Louisianacooking.
Do you remember that one?
I don't know you will.
When I OK, Louisiana cooking.
Do you remember that one?
I don't know you will when Iread.
Hosted by Justin Wilson, arenowned Cajun-inspired humorist

(37:20):
and chef, his show aired onLouisiana public television
during the 80s and 90s and wasnationally distributed on PBS.
Well, it was nationallydistributed on PBS.
Wilson's programs wereinstrumental in popularizing
Cajun cooking, engaging viewerswith stories, jokes, music and
poetry, creating a warm,familial atmosphere.

(37:41):
His famous catchphrase, Iguarantee and hoo boy became
widely recognized.
Wilson also appeared intelevision commercials for Cajun
spice ruffles, potato chips,highlighting an early form of
chef endorsement.
Commercials for Cajun spiceruffles, potato chips,
highlighting an early form ofchef endorsement.
Other notable culinary figuresalso contributed to the 80s
landscape.
Jacques Pepin launched hisfirst television series,

(38:15):
Everyday Cooking with Jacqueswith Take Kerr in 1975, a daily
five-minute series thatcontinued into the early 80s,
focusing on healthier, lighterrecipes and incorporating
Christian elements.
I'm not sure how, I guessyou're cooking the body of
Christ.
Additionally, chefs like KenHolm and Madhar Jafri were

(38:37):
pivotal in the early 80s forintroducing authentic Asian.
These programs successfullybrought culinary arts into
living rooms across the globe,introducing viewers to a wide
variety of cuisines and makingcooking both educational and
entertaining.
Cooking both educational andentertaining.

(38:58):
They were instrumental intransforming the kitchen from a
mere space for chores into a hubof creativity and fun, and I
honestly wonder if that's how wegot to the open floor plans of
today.
Because if you think about it,like all the old houses, the
kitchen was kind of closed offinto another area of its oh,
that's where the woman lives andnow it's like all open and it's

(39:20):
the hub of that kitchen.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
I want a lot of light in our kitchen too.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
I'm telling you, you can do whatever.
Oh, can we have, though I dowant over our bar, I want
Einstein.
What are they called?
What are those light bulbscalled?

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Oh, I know what you're talking about.
What the what are they called?
What are those light bulbscalled?

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Oh, I know what you're talking about.
What the fuck are they called?
They're not called.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Einstein, I don't know, but I like those two
Edison bulbs.
Edison bulbs, I knew it wassomebody smart.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Perfect.
The widespread presence ofthese shows on public television
, a non-commercial platform,cultivated a national interest
in diverse cuisine and built aloyal audience base, effectively
laying the intellectual andcultural foundation upon which
the more entertainment driven,commercial food televisions of
the 90s would build.
Furthermore, the 1990srepresented a dramatic

(40:11):
acceleration in the evolution ofculinary television, largely
propelled by the proliferationof cable television and the
landmark launch of the FoodNetwork.
The dedicated fundamentallyreshaped how food content was
produced, consumed and perceived, transitioning it from an
instructional niche to a vibrantentertainment genre.

(40:33):
April 1993 was the launch ofthe Food Network.
It's the first cable channeldedicated exclusively to food,
hence the name the Food Network.
This move to cable signaled adecisive move toward the
mainstream for culinary contentand, if you remember, that was a
time where, like cable kind ofstarted blowing up.

(40:58):
At that point, like everythinghad a, there was a lot 57
channels and nothing on.
Yeah, and it was a lot.
Yeah.
The network's inceptiontransported food into part of
the popular culture, elevatingchefs to new levels of cool.
I was cool then.
That had not been seen before.
Critically, the Food Network iswidely recognized for steering

(41:21):
the genre away from itstraditional instructional format
towards an entertainment-drivenmodel.
The commercial imperative,driven by the need to attract
larger, more diverse audiencesfor advertising revenue,
fundamentally altered thecontent and presentation of
cooking shows.
The financial backing andbroader reach of commercial
cable networks enabled higherproduction values, more dynamic

(41:42):
formats and aggressive marketingof chef personalities, creating
a positive feedback loop thatfueled the network's growth and
influence.
The 90s witnessed a significantdiversification of cooking show
formats, the hybridentertainment approach that
blended instruction withentertainment.
So Chef Paul Prudenholm I don'tknow if you remember him, but

(42:09):
he has spice now he's probablybest known for his spices in the
grocery store.
He's spicy now yeah his naturalcharisma and down-home
authenticity made him arevelation on screen.
Beginning in 1995, he createdand starred in five pbs cooking
series fork in the road, fieryfoods, kitchen expedition,

(42:30):
louisiana kitchen and alwayscooking.
His warm, engaging presence andability to make complex dishes
seem approachable made himnatural on camera.
Each episode ended with histrademark sign off good cooking,
good eating, good loving aphrase that encapsulated his
joyful approach to food and life.
What made him different fromearlier TV chefs was his

(42:50):
storytelling ability.
While Julia Child taughttechnique and precision, chef
Paul shared the culturalsignificance behind each dish,
weaving tales of childhood inAppaloosa, louisiana, explaining
how family is made use of everyingredient and connecting
viewers to the emotional heartof Louisiana cooking.
Master Chef, the iconiccompetition series, debuted in

(43:15):
1990.
Really yeah, yeah and has runalmost continuously since, damn
the original format featuredamateur cooks competing to
prepare a three-course meal witha strict time limit, with their
creations judged byprofessional chefs and
celebrities.
Lloyd grossman served as theoriginal host until 2000.
Broadcast on BBC One, the showunderwent a significant revamp

(43:38):
in 2005 to boost viewership,introducing a wider variety of
tasks.
The success of the competitiveformat demonstrated that food
could be a compelling subjectfor dramatic television.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
See, and that timed cooking is definitely something
for restaurant chefs.
Yes, cooking is definitelysomething for restaurant chefs?
Yes, because my joy of food istaking my time and also some
things need time, which I knowthat restaurant chefs.

(44:10):
That's why you make stuff aheadof time, so that it's ready to
go when it's go time and it getsthat time that it needs.
But yeah, that show does notsound like any fun for me to
compete on at all.
I would not enjoy having to beon a time limit.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
I love it, I know, and watching you do it is
amazing, but not my love notvery different kind of cooks
turn and burn ready steady cook,recognized as one of the most
iconic shows from the 90s.
Can't cook, won't cook, alsohosted by the charismatic

(44:47):
ainsley harriet program, airedon bbc from 1995 to 1996.
The show's premise involved twonominated individuals, one
genuinely lacking cooking skills, the other simply unwilling to
cook, who were guidedstep-by-step by a chef to
prepare a dish A unique segmentinvolving blindfold nominees
tasting and judging the food todetermine the winner.

(45:07):
Despite its short run andcriticism for being similar to
Ready Steady Cook, its emphasison entertainment through
culinary mayhem was clear.
The Naked Chef Premiering atthe very end of the decade in
1999, this series introduced theyoung Jamie Oliver to
television screens.

(45:28):
Running until 2001,.
It was praised for inspiringmen to engage in cooking.
The show brought a freshness tocooking shows with its dynamic
camera close-ups and a much morerelaxed style that was less
common previously.
Each episode often featuredOliver cooking for different
people in his life, such ascolleagues, his girlfriend or
his nieces, adding a personaland relatable touch.

(45:50):
And Emeril Emeril Live Bam yeah.
Adding a personal and relatabletouch.
And emerald emerald live bamyeah.
Emerald lagasse, a regionaljames beard award winner, became
a household name with hisdistinctive new new orleans
style of cooking, a vibrantfusion of creole and cajun
traditions with influence fromasian, portuguese and
southwestern cuisines.
His shows, the essence ofemerald from 94 to 2007 and

(46:13):
emerald live 97 to 2007, weremajor successes on the food
network.
Legasi was renowned for hisenergetic, jovial hosting style
and memorable catchphrase likebam and kick it up a notch.
The addition of a live studioaudience for emerald live
significantly enhanced itsentertainment value,

(46:34):
transforming a cookingdemonstration into a lively
performance.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
He was lively Good.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Eats, created and hosted by Alton Brown.
This program premiered on FoodNetwork in July of 99.
Good Eats distinguished itselfby exploring the science,
technique and history behindcooking, often likened to
television science educators.
The show was notable for itsdistinct visual style, employing

(47:00):
Dutch angles and camera placedinto side kitchen appliances to
illustrate concepts and features.
Alton Brown and other actorsplaying various characters to
tell the story of food.
Julia Child, a pioneer ofculinary television, maintained
her influential presencethroughout the 90s.
She hosted Cooking with MasterChefs hosted by Julia Child from

(47:23):
1993 to 1994, a series whereshe visited and collaborated
with 16 celebrity chefs.
Later she partnered withJacques Pepin for Julia and Jack
Cooking at Home, which aired onPBS from 99 to 2000 and earned
a Daytime Emmy Award.
Other significant Americanshows Baking with Julia Cooking,

(47:44):
live Dinner and a Movie I usedto love Dinner and a Movie how
to Boil Water and Ready Set Cookthat was Bobby Flay.
He joined food network in 95with hot off the grill with
bobby flay and mario batali'smolto mario began airing in 96,

(48:05):
introducing regional italiancuisine for a wider audience.
The 90s marked a considerableacceleration in the
globalization of the kitchen.
Previously exotic ingredientsand dishes became increasingly
available and influenced eatinghabits worldwide.
This included the mainstreamingof foods like tacos, thai
curries, regional Italianclassics such as tiramisu and

(48:27):
particularly sushi, whichevolved into a global phenomenon
, with california roles servingas an accessible entry point you
the burgeoning internet alsoplayed a crucial role,
disseminating recipes andcooking advice and effectively
shattering our spatialrelationships to culinary
knowledge.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Health consciousness experienced a significant boom
in the 90s, leading to aproliferation of low-fat
products in the market yeah,when you didn't have to eat
cottage cheese and cannedpeaches to be eating healthy, it
became a lot more accessibleand desirable.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
This trend was influenced by heightened public
awareness of healthy eating andthe official publication of the
food pyramid in the USA which,by the way I did not know that,
was not until the 90s.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, and it's actually completely inaccurate,
correct?

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Graham Kerr's Kitchen , 94 to 96, notably embraced a
low-fat, minimax approach,focusing on maximum flavor while
minimizing unhealthiness,Regional.
Alongside the embrace of globalcuisines, there was a parallel
and growing nostalgia for allthings regional.
Americans began to move beyondgeneric understanding of
cuisines, appreciating, forinstance, Italian food not just

(49:43):
as spaghetti and meatballs, butrecognizing its diverse regional
variations, like those fromPiedmont and Emilia-Romagna.
I know I'm not going to saythat Cut that part out.
This reflected a deeperengagement with culinary
authenticity and local foodways,the increased visibility of

(50:04):
international cuisines andhealth-conscious trends in the
90s cooking shows directlycorrelated with broader societal
shifts such as acceleratingglobalization and increased
public health awareness.
Which is funny because, likethe 80s, it was all the French
foods and Asian foods and it wasall about excess in the 80s and

(50:26):
a lot of oh.
By the way, I was watching theTickety Talk the other day and
the girl was doing jazzercise.
She found somebody's jazzercisetapes and she was doing them and
the TikTok.
She comes on and she's sweatingall over and she's like I and
she's like maybe in her 20s andshe's like what was happening in

(50:49):
the 80s.
What were you doing in the 80s?
And like every comment afterthat was like coke, coke, coke,
coke, lots and lots of coke.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, that's why jazzercise was a thing yeah,
yeah, yeah, you had to expendthat energy somehow.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
A lot of skiing trips happening there.
So yeah, the 90s was morehealth conscious and I think the
90s was more health consciousand, like I said, more regional
and more not fancy, like fancy,but not.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Right, exactly Like it wasn't something you would
just make for a special occasion.
It was actually things youcould make every day.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, whereas Julia was making things every day.
And she was drunk.
All the time.
I should not talk.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
She probably actually doesn't talk like that.
That's her drunk talk.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
I'll love me some Julia Child.
Hell yeah.
The cookie shows of the 80s and90s exerted a profound and
lasting cultural impact,fundamentally redefining
culinary appreciation,influencing home cooking
practices and shaping thebroader food industry.
Pivotal period laid theessential groundwork for the
diverse and persuasive foodmedia of the 21st century.
While these programs undeniablygenerated more interest in

(52:22):
organic and locally producedingredients, fine dining and
homemade dishes, theyparadoxically did not
necessarily translate into asignificant increase in actual
home cooking.
Instead, americans continue toeat out more, suggesting a shift
from direct instruction toaspirational viewing.
I think they called that foodporn, didn't they?

(52:43):
For the longest time, the FoodNetwork was just food porn.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
The highlights of fun .
I mean, I never cooked anything, they may, I just like to watch
.
Yeah, I'm a voyeur, I like towatch.
Yeah, I'm a voyeur, I like towatch.
The highlight.
This highlights the fundamentalchange in the primary function
of cooking shows for manyviewers oh where were we all

(53:08):
right?
I got distracted.
The.
This paradox suggests thatfoodie culture fostered by tv
was more about the consumptionof food knowledge and experience
, such as dining out orpurchasing celebrity chef
product, than about activeparticipation in the kitchen,
indicating a growing disconnectbetween culinary appreciation
and practical application.

(53:28):
For the stupid ass,motherfucking foodies, nothing,
nothing makes me more angry thanthe word foodie.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
And she was way angry before we ever started
recording.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
I was very irate, I don't even know why, just
because you even made me alittle angry.
Oh, I know why I was mad.
We're not going to talk aboutthat.
Yeah, you even made me a littleangry.
Oh, I know why I was mad.
Oh, we're not going to talkabout that.
Okay, it's the current newscycle.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
You mean like when Grandpa got stuck on the roof
the other day.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
There's a really funny TikTok about that too.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
There's a lot of funny memes about it.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
It's him up there and underneath they're just playing
.
Jump by van halen anyway, mightas well, jump, jump so
basically that's it.
Um now.
Now we went from having theinstructional videos of the 80s
to like this super fancy pants,game shows, and like every kind

(54:42):
of cuisine.
Everybody's got their own show.
But one thing I would like tosay, of course is, my favorite
chef but he didn't come alongtill the 2000s on tv was anthony
bourdain I wasn't gonna letthis slide without just talking
about him, so I knew he'd comeup, but I feel like if anthony
bourdain probably hates peoplewho call themselves foodie also

(55:05):
for sure

Speaker 1 (55:06):
um, he was my favorite because, oh my god, I
love man.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
He started as a dishwasher.
He tells you how it is.
He even says he is not a greatcook.
He's not a great chef.
He was not a great chef and heis where he's supposed to be.
He had a serious drug problem,which most people in restaurants
do.
I mean I don't know what is notto love about Anthony Bourdain.

(55:32):
I mean I don't know what is notto love about Anthony Bourdain.
He would go to these places inthe middle of fucking nowhere
and sit down in these people'shomes.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Right, just find a family and have them cook him
dinner.
Yes, and my gosh, it wasamazing.
Like I don't know if I wouldrather have been him or just got
to spend time with him, like Ican't even decide.
Like he was he.
He was a force, that's for surehe really was um, and he did

(56:00):
have my dream job so my otherfavorite is Gordon Ramsay, I
know, I go back and forth withhim.
I love Gordon.
I think I like him as a person.
I don't like him as a character.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
I think I like him as a person.
I don't like him as a character.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
I think I like him both.
Well, that's because you were amean chef.
Yes, so you enjoy watching thatand you're probably jealous of
how much he got away with thatis how it happens.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yeah, you will, I don't care.
Look, I have yelled at my fairshare of servers in my life.
I have called people names, Ihave told them how stupid they
are.
I have done all of those thingsis it?
Right?
No, is it just the way it goesin a kitchen?
Yep, yes, cooks have incredibleegos, just high For no reason.

(56:54):
There's a reason, but it's.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
It's a thing that's hard to explain if you aren't a
cook.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Cooks are cooks because they can't be out in
public Right.
Servers and bartenders make 40to 50 times more money yes Than
a cook ever will.
Cooks have it?
I get it.
Don't get me wrong.
I know that servers have itrough because they have to deal
with both the cooks and thepeople in the dining room.
I understand that 100%, but itis also not 56,000 degrees.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I was going to say like it is definitely harder.
I did 25 years in therestaurant.
It is definitely harder.
I could never I have.
I did 25 years in therestaurant, all front of the
house and a lot of it's hard.
Yes, a lot of it, but it'snever as hard as it is in the
kitchen, like it's hot.
Everybody's in everybody's way,everybody wants to know where

(57:51):
their shit is.
Tickets keep coming, coming.
They don't stop.
You're on your feet.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
You have to have no stopping so many things
happening at one time and youhave to stay focused.
You have to know the entiremenu and every single solitary
ingredient in it, and if youwork in more than one restaurant
, especially especially aroundhere you have very limited time

(58:17):
where you get to learn this shit.
It's all learned on the fly.
I mean, I've worked in a fewrestaurants Some were not my own
that I did not make the menufor.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
If you make your own menu, then it's a lot easier to
remember things.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
But there's just you have to know it's very difficult
, it's timing, it's working withthe other people, knowing the
other people that you're workingwith so well that you know how
long it's going to take them todo one thing.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
So you can time things together.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
You also have to be able to communicate without
saying a whole lot to each other.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Right, or else nobody would hear anybody.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
You can't hear anything in there.
It's so loud, right.
It's so hot, it's so fast, it'sso sensory overload, which is
why I can't believe I like it,because I absolutely hate
sensory overload.
But it is so many thingshappening all at one time and
you have to be able to work withother people in real, close

(59:27):
quarters, like I always used totell them.
This is a full contact sport.
You are in each other's armpits, you are in each other's faces,
you are sweating on each other.
There are no secrets in a grillroom and it's so hot.
And these poor people make $15,$17, $20 an hour.

(59:50):
That's it.
Most of them are ex-cons,because restaurants are the only
place that will hire them.
They're all on drugs they're allhopped up on something caffeine
, coke, meth, it's all it's.
You just have no idea howdifficult of a job it is Right

(01:00:12):
Until you do it Right, and noteverybody's cut out for it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Oh God no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
I could not wait tables.
I have tried and I hated everysecond of it, because I don't
like talking to people.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
One thing I will say that, like, servers and cooks
have in common when it comes tothe restaurant and bartenders
not hostesses.
So much Boo, but there is arhythm to all of it.
Yes, like when you're awaitress, if you have not worked
in a restaurant, it's calledbeing in the weeds, when you
just have lost control.
But you have everything in yourhead, you know what you need to

(01:00:49):
do and you know the order.
You need to do it, and nothingwill fuck you up worse than
somebody coming up and beingwhat can I do for you?
Don't even make me think aboutit.
I've got it all.
Just give me five minutes andit will all be done.
Don't help me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
And that's like another thing, like if it's not
a turn and burn restaurant, soit's not like an IHOP or some
breakfast Right Pretty muchanything else.
You have to in your brain,because the ticket prints out
with everything that thosepeople ordered on it.
Some places will print appsdifferent and you can fire, but

(01:01:26):
you're just asking for someoneto forget something.
If you do it that way, in myopinion, I liked all my service
with the whole thing in and thenI'll.
If you do it that way, in myopinion, I liked all my service
with the whole thing in and thenI'll.
So you have to have in yourhead the whole thing has to come
out in 15 to 20 minutes.
The entrees have to come out in15, 20 minutes, so you have to

(01:01:47):
watch your server take the saladout.
Now you're on the clock foryour app.
Your app has to come out somany minutes but not too soon
and not too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
It's just such a delicate balance.
There is nothing worse, though,when you're sitting at a table
and you get your appetizers andanother food runner right behind
them brings your food.
Exactly you're like what thefuck?

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
yeah, it's just such a delicate balance and a lot of
times these foods they've allbeen prepped, you know, ahead of
time and they're, so they'renot taking as long as it
normally would because they'repre-cooked or pre-done or
whatever.
But with food there's like asweet spot and if you're out of

(01:02:31):
that in by like two minutes atall, then it goes bad.
Yeah, so if you're two minutestoo early, it's not done enough.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
If you're two minutes too late, the food is dying and
your servers are not comingwhen you need them to I was
gonna say don't let a serverleave it sitting up under the
heater, no, where it drying out,the plate is steaming hot, yeah
, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
And that's another thing.
As a cook, you don't havefingertips anymore, like they're
just all gone.
Everything's burnt off.
You're covered in burns all thetime.
You have to learn how to dealwith it.
It hurts like a motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Yeah, and as a server , I hated when people ran my
food.
Yeah, like I never wanted towork in a restaurant with a food
runner and I would tell otherservers, if there was no food
runner, don't touch my food,because I had my timing too.
I know when those things cameout.
I know, when everything is readyto go.
And I know when the cooks aregoing to have it ready.
And if they're falling a littlebit behind, I bring them a tray

(01:03:31):
full of ice cold sodas.
And if they're falling a littlebit behind, I bring them a tray
full of ice cold sodas.
Let them get a drink and thenask them if they can let me know
when my food might be ready.
And that is mostly happensbecause some asshole at some
table is like right, I orderedmy food 10 minutes ago.
Yeah, so customers are theworst.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Anyway, that's all I have to say.
When you're eating out, youjust have to understand that
there is a very delicate balletthat happens in any restaurant
anywhere, I don't care whatlevel of restaurant it is, If
it's a gourmet restaurant downto Waffle House.
Those cooks have an ego.

(01:04:11):
They are very proud of whatthey do and how they put it out.
And they only make 10, 15,maybe 20 tops and it's a real
hard job.
No benefits, no tips, no nothing.
No insurance no Nothing.
They miss family, and that'sanother thing.

(01:04:32):
Nobody really understands youmiss every family event because
everybody has shit on Saturdaysand that's your busiest day, so
you can't be off for that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Man, can we talk about that first cigarette
though, after the end of thenight?
That is great, that's the bestone ever.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Yeah, yeah, all right , I better get to my fun ever.
Yeah, yeah, all right, I betterget to my fun facts.
Ooh, yeah, oh.
But one thing real quick, I did.
I was very close to auditioningfor Hell's Kitchen.
The only reason I did not?
Because I was gonna.

(01:05:09):
I was already, it was inPhiladelphia, I was headed up, I
was gonna, I was already, itwas in Philadelphia, I was
headed up, I was gonna do it.
And as I was reading the thingyou have to sign, it says do you
have any allergies?
And they cook a lot of scallops.
I didn't even think about that,and I knew, as soon I had to put
it, I would have to put it.

(01:05:30):
I mean, I couldn't have not, incase something happened and I
knew they weren't going to takeme because of it.
I knew it.
They can't, they can't havethat liability.
That has been your lifelongcurse, it is, and I was on my
way and I was like fuck, Ididn't even think about that, I
can't do it.
This is a wasted trip Becausethey're not going to take me.

(01:05:55):
I would have won, though.
Definitely Because I can take,because him screaming and
yelling at you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Yeah, you would have been like you just do what
you're told.
That's all.
Yeah, it's not your kitchen.
You wouldn't have been cryingback.
It was so mean to me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
It's not your kitchen .
No, and then they won't be mean.
Exactly, Suck it up buttercup,Yep, yeah, Okay, Fun facts.
For a year Julia Child workedat the OSS Emergency Sea Rescue
Equipment Section in 1942 inWashington DC as a fire clerk

(01:06:26):
and then as an assistant todevelopers of a shark repellent
needed to ensure that sharkswould not explode ordinances
targeting German U-boats Crazysharks.
When Child was asked to solvethe problem of too many OSS
underwater explosives being setoff by curious sharks, Child's
solution was to experiment withcooking various concoctions as a

(01:06:50):
shark repellent which weresprinkled in the water near the
explosives and repelled sharksStill in use today.
The experimental sharkrepellent marked Julia's first
foray into the world of cooking.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
That is one of the coolest fun facts I've ever
heard.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Julia Child was six foot two.
She was tall.
She was awarded thepresidential medal of Freedom in
2003 for her contributions toAmerican culture.
Martin Yan of Yan Can Cook hashosted over 3,500 episodes of
the PBS cooking show Yan Can.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Cook God damn Since 1982.
That's a lot of shows.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Here's my favorite fun fact of all Martin Yan can
debone a chicken in 18 seconds.
Get the fuck out of here I willnot.
Oh boy, that is fucking fast.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
I would love to see that I would too.
That is fucking insane.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
You don't even know how sharp of a knife you have to
have for that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
For real.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
And to 18.
That's amazing, I know I wantedto get some chickens to debone
them, just to see.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
It would probably take three or four minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
At least.
I would put me at five, maybeten oh.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
I think you could do it faster than that.
I'm out of practice and I don'thave very good knives.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Justin good knives.
Yeah, justin wilson the cajunguy presented himself as cajun
in his act.
It is unclear if he had anyactual acadian or french
ancestry.
His father, harry wilson, wasof welsh descent.
Justin wilson described hismother, the former olivette
minturn toadvin, as cajun, butshe has no known ancestors who
either were acadian, lived inthe cajun regions of louisiana
or emigrated from france youknow what I actually, as poor as

(01:08:43):
my memory is, I remember as ayoungster being like are you
sure this guy's cajun?
like you sound like a cartoon heis from louisiana, um her her.
His mother did teach him how tocook but her name derives from
an.
Is a native of her family.

(01:09:06):
Is native to maryland, oh yeah,all righty um, not very exotic.
And the parish where the familylived was not part of the French
or Spanish colonies ofLouisiana.
And my last fun fact becausethere are really not a whole lot
of fun facts is the longestrunning cooking show is the
British show, MasterChef.

(01:09:26):
The show first aired in 1990and is still airing today.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, that is a long-runningshow.
Not like the Simpsons.
But so that's my cooking show.
That was super duper fun.
I love me some cooking shows.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
I was starving when I got here.
You're even more starving.
No, I'm going to die ofstarvation.
Oh my God, I like literally mywhole drive down.
I was like what am I going toget for dinner on the way home?
What are you going to get fordinner?
I don't know.
Nothing sounds good, although Iam thinking sushi now.
I did think sushi on the waydown.
Then you mentioned it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
So I'm thinking maybe I don't know, I don't know what
.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
I'm going to have either.
But then I also thought likethere's a place up there that
you can just get like meatballswith some sauce and mozzarella
on it.
There's also a place up therecalled Clean Eats that I've not
tried yet.
I might give it a go, but Ithink it's a chain.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Yeah, sounds like a chain.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
My favorite sushi place is like three minutes from
the house there you go and it'sright next to a liquor store
and I'm out of wine.
Oh boy Thinking I have a plan.
Oh boy Thinking I have a plan.
Oh shit.
Well, let's wrap this shit upthen.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Thank you for listening.
Like share rate review.
Tell a friend, get us to thatmoney so that we can get us an
industrial kitchen and inviteyou over.
You will love the meatballsthat I make.
My god yeah, and the rose saucereal quick.

(01:10:59):
One more.
One last thing, and then Ipromise I'll be done.
My whole philosophy on cookingfor in a restaurant as a
restaurateur is I want you toeat my food and say, as you're
eating it man, that's reallygood, this meatball really good.
I want you to enjoy it whileyou're there, and then I want

(01:11:23):
you to go home and two dayslater I want you to go.
God damn, that meatball wasgood and then three days after
that.
I want you to be holy shit, thatmeatball was fucking amazing.
I want you to think about thatfood.
I want you to enjoy it whileyou're there, but I really want
to leave you with an impressionthat you want that next week.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
That's another thing that I can connect with you is.
Food is definitely my lovelanguage.
I want to cook food and havepeople I care about eat it and
be happy.
Yeah, yeah, like you can pay meno greater compliment than to
tell me how delicious what Ijust made was.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
All right, we got to get her some sushi.
Like share rate review.
Get us that kitchen.
Find us where you listen topodcasts.
Tell your friends where to findus when you listen to podcasts.
Follow us on all the socials.
At likewhateverpod, you cansend us an email about how
you're going to give us enoughmoney.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
All my Hobart and Vulcan stuff or don't like
whatever, whatever bye.