December 2, 2024 • 41 mins
When Jack Cottrell first donned a roofer's hat at the tender age of 16, little did he know that it would mark the beginning of an extraordinary entrepreneurial journey. From the rooftops to the boardroom, Jack's story is a testament to the power of determination and the often winding paths that lead to success. In this episode, Jack shares the pivotal moments that steered him from his initial aspirations of nursing to becoming a pioneering force in the roofing industry. Discover how Jack's strategic decision-making and foresight led him to embrace the roofing sector, a move that would set the stage for his future triumphs.
Perseverance and grit emerge as central themes as we explore the trials and tribulations faced by entrepreneurs. Drawing parallels with the likes of Ernest Shackleton's legendary endurance, we discuss how staying focused on immediate tasks can help overcome overwhelming challenges. Jack's insights into maintaining a balance between growth and efficiency in business highlight the need for a conservative yet opportunistic approach in an ever-changing market. With a strong financial foundation and strategic planning, Jack's roofing business has set ambitious targets while navigating the complexities of both insurance and retail work.
The episode delves into the personal challenges of business ownership, where self-awareness and humility play critical roles. Jack candidly shares his struggles with leadership and the importance of surrounding oneself with complementary team members. The discussion extends into the influence of personal values in business and the lasting impact of Gino Wickman's "Traction," offering listeners practical advice on integrating personal dreams with professional pursuits. Join us as we unpack Jack's belief in the power of perseverance and the significance of injecting one's heart into business, leaving you inspired to chase your own dreams with unwavering dedication.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
all right, welcome to the limitless roofing show.
My name is dylan mccabe and inevery episode we talk with
roofing owners and just talkthrough struggles, challenges,
visions and dreams.
Uh, to to really help you go tothe next level, we give you a
seat at the table so that youcan listen in.
We all have something to learnfrom one another.
Iron sharpens iron, and that'sthe point of this show.
(00:29):
And today we've got JackCottrell.
He's actually the very firstmember to the Limitless Roofing
GPO, which is really cool, andhe's become a friend and we
wanted him to have him on theshow.
So, jack, welcome to the show,man.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I appreciate it, Dylan.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah.
So what I'd like to do is justkind of open up about your story
and share about your story.
How'd you get into roofing,what were you doing before that
and what did it look likegetting into it?
Where are you?
What's your company?
Just kind of the 30,000 footview.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm out of Denver now, but it didn't
start out that way.
I there was nothing beforeroofing, and then that's pretty
much really accurate.
I started roofing when I was 16years old.
So I had a friend, a familyfriend, that owned a roofing
company and he started thatcompany just to put himself
(01:21):
through dental school.
So he needed cheap labor andthat's where I came in.
So I installed roofs for, youknow, from 16 to 21 years old,
uh, and then, and then he setoff to Denver to uh, explore an
opportunity selling for anothercompany.
And a few months after he leftPortland where I was, where I
(01:47):
was, I called him up because Ikind of saw the writing on the
wall that his company inPortland wasn't going to survive
without him.
So I said I need to probablylook at some other alternatives
and I'm getting older andwanting to establish myself a
little bit more and strike outon my own.
I called him up and said, hey,can I, can I do what you're
(02:09):
doing out there in Denver?
And he's like, yep, open thedoor.
And then so I came out andstarted selling roofs, uh, at
the same company he was at.
So that's what got me to Denver, um, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So I didn't know.
So you were an installer forhow long?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Like five years.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
No kidding, I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, that's the only thing I really had to my in my
resume.
I, when I came out to Denver,my my problem is that my whole
life I've looked like I wasreally young, I mean a lot
younger than I was.
So if I was 16, I mean you'rethinking you're talking to a
12-year-old.
When I was 21, people thought Iwas 15, 16 years old and
(02:50):
they're like why.
It was really impressed upon methat people I was behind
because people thought I was soyoung and I had nothing to offer
.
So the only feather in my capat that point was I really knew
roofing.
I knew how to install, so Ifelt very comfortable up on a
roof, felt very comfortabletalking to people about how
(03:12):
things worked.
So I really relied on thatheavily.
With regards to my sales pitch,why do you want to use me?
Well, I know more than theother salespeople that are twice
my age.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I I I'm I know more than the other salespeople that
are twice my age.
So and so you, and so, now thatyou're 60, you look like you're
a 30.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I just I just celebrated my 45th birthday, so
you know the beard, the beard.
When I finally was able to dolike, grow some hair on my face,
I did it and it took a while.
So I'm afraid to shave it offbecause I don't know what what
that would look like.
But yeah, that that's.
That was the first iteration ofof of trying to grow up.
You know what I mean.
Like, let's grow some facialhair.
Let's see if I can even do it.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
So you go from install, being an installer at
16 years old.
You do that for several yearsand you think, man, I could do
this, I could sell roofs andhave my own business.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So but you decided about my own business at the
time.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Oh, just selling roofs.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, I wanted to sell Cause.
At the same time I was I wasnot thinking I was always trying
to get out of roofing.
Uh, it was a means to an end.
I was trying to go to, uh, getinto nursing school.
Actually.
So I, from six, you know, fromtime I graduated high school, uh
, up until I mean, shoot, yearsafter I started selling, I was
just taking a class at a time.
(04:33):
I was going, I was trying toget myself into into, into, you
know, um, to do an undergrad andget into nursing.
So there, there did come a timewhen I said I have to make a
choice because I'm not smartenough to do both.
I'm not smart enough tocontinue my career in roofing
(04:54):
and also do nursing school.
So I had to make a make achoice.
And and I'm a numbers person,so I I just crunched all the
numbers and the long and shortof it is, if I go to nursing
school, I'm going to take ondebt, which I hate, and then I'm
going to end up out of schoolin a few years and make less
money than I was making roofing.
(05:14):
So, as much as I hated it, I waslike you know what this is my
life now I got to make a choice,and I started a family in the
meantime as well, and so I hadobligations.
So roofing became my life, andso I dedicated everything to it
and worked for several differentcompanies in Denver and did all
the jobs right Quality control,production, commercial
(05:37):
production.
I did, you know, I did all thatstuff.
And then fast forward.
I was working for a companythat I thought I was going to
have a lot of opportunity in anduh, we you know, me and the
owner butted heads and we endedup parting ways.
And then it was at that pointin January like in January, snow
(05:57):
on the ground and everything.
I was like I, I, I had toconvince myself that I was good
enough, smart enough, you know,ready to do my own thing, and so
I just plugged away and startedit and see where it went.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And when was that?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
That was 2017.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
2017.
So you decide I'm going tostrike off on my own, I'm going
to start my own business.
Let's talk about that, becausethere's a lot of people out
there that I know personally inmy network of friends, family,
et cetera that would like to dosomething entrepreneurial or
have a business or a sidebusiness, but they just
(06:42):
constantly think of the well,how's this going to work, How's
this going to work, How's thatgoing to work?
What if this goes wrong?
What if that goes wrong?
But you're an entrepreneur,you're a business owner.
I'm a business owner.
Walk me through what's thethought process that you kind of
went through as you wrestledwith that, to where you decided
I'm going to take the risk anddo this on my own.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
It was a wrestle.
I I deal with uh,self-confidence and always have
again thinking I'm good enoughand I'm able enough to do it.
Um, I believed that I couldoutwork anybody and I still do I
.
So I always have that in myback pocket Like if, if
everything goes to crap, like Ican still.
(07:24):
I can still work my way throughany problem I've got.
But I am usually more future,futuristic in my thinking.
So I do tend to plan and dream.
A lot of dreaming goes on in myhead about where I want things
to go.
But I also have the benefit ofthinking, of not thinking too
(07:45):
far ahead in my actions.
So I, I, I know that there's alot of stuff in between my
30,000 foot view and my 5,000foot view, or boots on the
ground view, or whatever youwant to call it.
I'm able to at least lookthrough both lenses and I don't
let the what ifs really deter mefrom moving forward.
(08:07):
So I tend to put my head downand look at the next task and I
always think of it like the nextbridge.
There's always a bridge you gotto cross.
There's always a crevasse yougot to get over right, there's
always a barrier.
There's always something you'vegot to get over.
Right, there's always a barrier, there's always something
you've got to get through andget over, and so I always
imagine that in my mind, likethese are just bridges I got to
(08:29):
cross, and I don't.
I know that I've got lots andlots of bridges to get to cross
to get to where I want to go,but putting my head down and
crossing the very next one madea lot of sense to me.
So that's that was.
It was my, it's theperseverance part, that that I'm
strong in.
That's one characteristic thatI, that I do well, and so that's
(08:51):
what I rely on pretty heavily.
Early ages of my business, youknow, like I w, I was quick
story I sold my first job undermy company name and I didn't
have a contract, I didn't haveanything.
So I was, I was, I was on myway and writing up something in
in, uh, in Excel, and I was justcopying and pasting whatever I
(09:14):
could from other contracts thatI had gathered over the years,
right, other companies that I'dworked for, and whatever, hoping
I had no.
Legally speaking, if you lookedat that contract today you'd be
like, yeah, there's holes allover the places, there's no way
that this is enforceable.
But I had a contract to presentuh to my first client and then
so clearly for me like I need torevise my contract and then
(09:37):
then I need to, so that's thenext thing I need to do.
I need to make sure that I'mlegal.
Well, I did that first jobwithout insurance.
I know at some point I made thedecision like, hey, we have
enough money in the bank.
Uh, I need to go get insurance.
I just need to continue to addlegit legitimacy to my business,
um, without freaking out toomuch about all the things that I
didn't have.
So that was that's really mymentality for uh addressing
(10:02):
problems and moving forward andgetting over the hurdles.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Yeah, so you're.
I mean, you have this idea orthis picture of what it could
look like, but you know that youcan stick it out and just keep
going.
I can't remember the quote.
There's some quote that's likeperseverance is the omnipotent
virtue or whatever it's like.
There's plenty of people thathave genius level IQs but
(10:28):
they've done nothing with it.
And there's people who havebeen given opportunities that
they've squandered, but it'sjust that grit and determination
that wins out in the end.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I don't have any tattoos, but I always told
myself, if I got one, it wouldbe fortitude and invincible,
which is the motto from fromErnest Shackleton, and that was
his family motto and that wasthrough endurance we conquer.
And I'm like, that's me.
I can do that Right.
I'm not the smartest guy, I'mnot the biggest guy, I'm not the
(11:00):
, you know.
I'm not the the, I don't know.
You want to call it whateverthing that you think of when you
think of a leader and abusiness owner and entrepreneur.
I I'm not most of those things,but I can.
I can persevere.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Man, that's, that's interesting.
You bring that up.
I just finished that book onyeah the endurance.
I did the audio version and 99%of the book is things going
wrong.
I mean it's just a beating.
The book is for me.
It was hard to listen to, likeI would stop listening to it for
a couple of weeks at a timebecause I would just get
(11:34):
depressed.
Right Like these guys are onthe ocean everything's going
wrong, people are freezing, youknow.
Then they land on an island andthey think it's their salvation
, only to find out the island isuninhabitable.
They can't stay.
There's watermarks where thetide goes above their heads.
At the place they're camped outand then they have to go
(11:54):
sailing again and it's justdramatic challenge after
dramatic challenge.
But the end of the book whenthey it's a good story, it ends
well.
And have you read the book?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, so at the end, man, that final scene, when I
won't say it for anybody whowants to read the book, but the
final scene is so moving, I likeI wept.
I just wept at the end, wheneverything gets wrapped up in,
like the last five minutes ofthe book, right, or 10 minutes
of the book Right, or 10 minutesof the book, and then I retold
it to Miller at lunch and I gotall choked up and couldn't
(12:29):
hardly tell him about it atlunch.
I mean, you know me well enoughby now, I'm a sensitive guy.
But man, I mean when you lookat that you think, yeah, I've
gone through some really toughstuff in business, but I haven't
been through that Like.
I haven't been through thatRight, like I haven't been on
the ice for 18 months.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Exactly so well, I mean, okay, so you, you
mentioned a book.
I don't remember you were doinga, you were a keynote speaker
at some point, maybe a year agoor something like that, and you
mentioned a book and it was intothin air and I and I, so I
purchased that book and then Iactually just finished it, I
think two days ago, and that'sthe opposite right, like things
(13:11):
looking like they were getting,they were going well, and then
all of a sudden it didn't gowell and it's not a happy ending
, it's and that is.
That is that is rough, right,you, you use that book, that
story, as a, as a story to showyou know, talk about leadership,
but that's when everything wentreally, really wrong.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, it was, it waspretty good.
(13:33):
So those are really on twoopposite sides of, like the the
outcome spectrum.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, Into thin air is such agood one though, Cause I I love
the way Krakauer writes thatbook and his perspective on
things, and it is a study inleadership.
The decisions you make, youknow, especially on with that
one when they started splittingthe team up and the leader of
the group going off on his ownand Beck Weathers is waiting for
(14:00):
him.
The leader never comes back.
I mean, it's just so manythings went wrong.
Their decision to leave oxygentanks behind to reduce weight
just terrible decisions.
Yeah, that's a crazy book.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
But yeah, so let's heart wrenching as well.
I mean, that was, that was atragedy for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And he also wrote Into the Wild, which is a, which is an
awesome book.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I agree with you.
I love the way his his writingstyle is.
I'll read that one probablynext or really close to next.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, yeah, that one's really good.
Um movie's good too, but so soyou, you started selling roofs
around 2017.
Um, let's fast forward to today, Like what's your makeup?
What's your target this yearfor revenue?
What's your?
How many people do you haveworking with you?
Stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, it ebbs and flows, for sure, but you know,
it's like the stock market,right as far as our revenue goes
.
It goes up and down, buttrajectory wise, it's all good
stuff.
We are entering a period now ofretraction, if you want to use
that word, where we're shrinking.
The size of our team isshrinking a little bit because
(15:09):
we're trimming some fat andmaking things more efficient.
I'm very much in the mode ofefficiency because I think we
can do more with less, and thenthat will help propel us forward
to take advantage ofopportunities in the future.
We're looking at purchasing abuilding, adding some team
(15:30):
members, but we probably goingto be looking at doing that in
the spring.
But as far as where we are,where we've been, like we did
what did we do?
Six and a half million lastyear and it was pretty
consistent with the year beforethat, and then you know, before
that that was a pretty big leapbecause we had in Denver, we had
like three years of really nostorms and our retail model.
(15:51):
When I started in 2017, we hadlike three years of of really no
storms and our retail model.
When I started in 2017, we were, we were blessed with a storm,
you know and I had enoughcontacts and had been in the
business long enough to where wedid.
We did more than what we shouldhave done.
We took on more than we shouldhave.
The sales came easy, but theproduction was not in place and
so we we struggled through thata lot, had a lot of a lot of
(16:12):
things to overcome, but, um, thesales really haven't been the
problem.
Uh, it's always about executingand and maintaining your
promises to your customers anddoing right by them and giving
them the service that theydeserve, that they expect when
they sign a contract with you.
So we I'm I'm really prettyconservative.
(16:35):
I'm not the mogul typenecessarily.
I'm the slow and steady growthbecause I think that's
sustainable and I don't incurtoo much debt.
I'm conservative on that frontas well.
So we go by the speed of cash.
So we've experienced a littlebit of a retraction in Denver,
(16:58):
at least for my company, and Ifeel like the industry in this
market as well, was a little bitlow.
So we're kind of dealing withthat right now.
But I think that ourfoundational we got some more
money in the bank than we'veever had and we're ready to grow
.
But we're making some changesinternally so that we feel like
we can be more nimble andrespond to the market quickly.
(17:24):
So I don't know if that answersyour question.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
No, that's good.
Is your question?
No, that's good.
So so, for those listening in,what do you?
What's your goal for growthover the next year or two?
Is it, is it a hundred percentstorm work?
Is it retail as well?
Are you looking to kind ofmaintain where you're at?
What's your?
What are you thinking for thenext year or two?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, when I, when I started the business, it was
insurance, and I think that'swhere I was trying to go with
that story is, we were insuranceand so like 95% of our stuff
was insurance and then we weredry and that really flip flop.
So we were 90% retail duringthat time and then, when we got
hit with another storm in 2023,like it inversed again, so we
(18:09):
were doing 90% insurance.
So we have the ability to doboth.
I think we're well set up to doeither or, uh, we're not, we're
not big enough, I think, towhere we can rely on the retail.
Uh, like completely, we can'tsay that like 50% of our stuff
is going to come from re, fromretail, because it's just, it
just doesn't seem to work thatway.
(18:31):
I'd like to and we we do work onour branding and try to be
omnipresent.
You know we're working withdoing some Facebook ads right
now, which we haven't reallydone before.
We're trying to, you know,sponsor local events, being more
active with the chamber ofcommerce.
You know, putting our sign onballparks and stuff like that.
So we're trying to like buildthe brand and make sure that
(18:51):
we're we're present all the time.
Um, and I think that that helpsus to become more retail.
But we, when we have insurancework it, it blows everything up.
I mean it.
It becomes very, very prominentpart of our business which we
can handle.
We, we love doing insurancework as well, but, um, yeah.
So I think I think movingforward, we are.
(19:13):
I would like to be at 10 millionin two years and I think that's
, that's pretty achievable.
We are working really hardinternally on our, you know,
sops and reevaluating all thoseand then building SOPs so that
we can bring on the right people.
We I've hired and we've talkedabout this you and I have
privately, but, like I, I'vehired out of desperation in the
(19:33):
past.
You know we've got all thiswork to do.
Let's, let's get some peopleand fill, fill some seats.
But you know the Jim Collinsthing where you got to get the
right people in the right seats.
That's, that's the trick andthat's something I haven't
really mastered yet.
But we are going to be morepatient, we're going to spend it
, we're going to have a processfor hiring and bringing people
into the company that are theright people, that buy into the
(19:56):
vision and that way I think that, as far as my plan moving
forward, that's going to be bigpicture.
That's our way of of gettingpast the hurdle and not really a
hurdle, but getting past ourprevious benchmarks.
I think that 10 million is isvery achievable in my market,
even with the relatively smallteam that I've got.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
No, that's good.
Yeah, a lot of guys think abouthow.
Like how am I going to go fromfive or 6 million to 10 million
in two years?
And it's really not a.
I mean the how you can work onthat, but the real question is
who?
That's right.
I know that book by DanSullivan.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
That's probably out of sight.
It's right now that book by DanSullivan and, um yeah, what's?
Speaker 1 (20:35):
his face.
Uh, anyway, who, not how.
I mean, it's like you need theright who, and in fact we've
been.
We've been at Limitless we'vebeen.
Um, we hired a culture indexcoach and actually, since you're
a forged member in our forgedmastermind, you're going to get
access to this.
We haven't announced it to youguys yet, so there's that it's
(20:57):
announced now.
Awesome.
But we hired him and he givesthis assessment called Culture
Index, and Culture Indexassesses your personality, but
it also assesses your tendenciesand stuff like that, and then
it assesses how you feel aboutthe role you're in.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
To see, if there's to see if those two are um
aligning with one another.
And so they say they claim thatit's 93% accurate on the first
take and it's 97% accurate onthe second, and it only takes
about 10 minutes to take thisassessment.
And it only takes about 10minutes to take this assessment.
I did it like 15 years ago Iwas talking to an insurance
(21:37):
broker about a job and they hadme take it.
And then I took it again abouta year ago and my result was the
exact same.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
But me and Robert and Miller all took it and this
culture index coach walked usthrough and I mean, in 10
minutes he pegged us.
I mean he was like all right,dylan, we're going to get to you
in a minute.
And then he's like now, robert,he's like you're what I call
the philosopher.
He's like you like to ask 10questions, play devil's advocate
(22:08):
, you have a futuristic mind,but you really like to get into
the how to and the what.
If you're you're, you'reskeptical by nature.
You like to hit the brakes andthink through things.
I mean, it was like he was inRobert's head.
It was crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I actually just got off a call with Robert right
With our Forbes meeting.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I'm like then he did the same thing to Miller and
then he got to me and nailed meand we're just like wow.
But the cool thing about it isthey claim that what you can do
with Culture Index and this isfor everybody listening to this
what you can do with CultureIndex is you have the person
you're thinking of hiring, takethat assessment and then you
(22:47):
have the role clearly writtenand they coach you on how to
write a job description and youknow, before you hire them,
whether they have the righttendencies or not for that role,
which could save all of us aton of time and stress that's a
big filter like, if I could knowahead of time, it's highly
likely that you're a great fitfor this role, which means
you'll probably really enjoy itand stay with me long term
(23:09):
versus you're not the right.
You're way out of the right seat, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Right.
So anyway that's an awesometool, for sure.
And then you just got to fillin all the gaps, like are they
ethical, are they presentable?
You know what I mean?
What's their communicationstyle, like that type of stuff.
But yeah, absolutely, that's,that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So let's shift and talk about like you're obviously
doing well.
I look at you and I think manJack is successful.
Of course, there's always a gapbetween where you are and where
you could be.
Yeah, it's just a part of beinga business person.
But you have made it to a placewhere you're successful.
You're doing well, yourfamily's secure, you see a path
to grow, but you're definitelynot in crisis mode.
(23:50):
Are we going to make it?
You, you're definitely not incrisis mode.
Are we going to make it?
You're not doing just a millionor 2 million a year.
You're doing well, right?
So a lot of guys may see thatand go man Jack's doing really
well, but you've been doing thisfor a while.
Let's talk about challenges.
We can all identify withchallenges and being a business
owner, it's just like nonstop.
I mean, you're dealing with newchallenges every month.
(24:10):
What's one of the biggestchallenges you faced as a
business owner?
And let's get into that and howyou dealt with that and what
lessons you learned and stufflike that.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Sure, yeah, it's very prominent to me.
All of my own weaknesses andthe stuff that I'm dealing with
right now, currently in mybusiness, is people.
I really just want people to dotheir job.
I bring you on to do a job, Iwant you to do your job, and if
you can be a great leader andbring more problem solving to
(24:43):
the table, then that's a bonus.
So my weaknesses have been thatI believe in people probably a
little bit too much, andpersonally I'm a people pleaser,
and so that that that is aproblem that has raised its head
many, many times, because I Itend to be the one that bends
(25:08):
when it comes to negotiationsand it and you know, and I, I
want people to like me, and so I.
It's one of those things again,very early on where I didn't, I
had this thought in my head anentrepreneur, that's.
That would be awesome, thatwould be great.
I would love to do that.
I see the benefit I want to.
I want all the benefits frombeing an entrepreneur and owning
(25:28):
my business Um, the financialaspect of it, the freedom of
time, the unlimited ability tojust to craft my vision of my
lifestyle how I want it and beable to get all those things and
be able to provide for myfamily.
So it was very clear about thebenefits from it.
But what I keep on bumping upagainst is the fact, the fact
(25:50):
that I um is is that I get takenadvantage of more often than
not.
So that's, that's a personalproblem.
So I look at people like you,cause you, I think you are very
much well, not very much, butlike you're at least on the
other end, where it's like um,see a problem, address a problem
, like no skin off my nose,let's, let's.
(26:10):
We need to make this changeRight.
You even offered to help mewith uh letting a, letting a
team member go at some point,and it's like man, that's I wish
I had.
That, you know, um, but I can'tchange me.
I can work on, I can work onthings and I do, but being aware
of it, I think is is the firstthing.
And then, and then justchunking away at um, at growth,
(26:33):
you know, because my, my growthis for my lifetime and I I
recognize that um, some thingscome easily for me and other
things don't, and so I just haveto uh hedge against the things
that I'm not good at and thensurround myself with people that
that are good at those thingsand and I need them as mentors
(26:55):
and sounding boards and umadvisors for, for me, Um and I,
I think I'm doing a better jobof that um, instead of being
that one person that doeseverything.
Uh, things like, um, what isthat book?
Rocket fuel?
I read that one finished thatone up a couple of weeks ago,
where it was.
You know, the big takeaway forme is like I'm by design, by
(27:19):
people's, like nature, humannature is.
You're not going to be good ateverything, and that's okay.
And if I'm, naturally, am thethe visionary?
Um, it's you know, cause theysay right in there, they're like
, if you think that you're the5% or 3% of people that are good
at both, then you're probablywrong.
Right, you can't be a visionaryand an integrator and be really
(27:40):
, really good at both roles, andI tend to think, well, yeah,
I'm good at that, I'm good atthat, and I'm like trying to,
I'm this guy, right, I'm.
I'm this entrepreneur, I'm, I'mreally not.
I need to have somesupplemental help in my business
, and so being aware of that isprobably my biggest problem that
(28:02):
I've had, and it manifests inlots of different ways, but
that's big picture.
That's my biggest problem.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know, but that takes a lot of humility to say
that, because a lot of guys, ifI say what's been your biggest
challenge, they're going to say,oh well, it was this one year
where this job went south and itcost us and we almost lost our
business, or this happened orthat happened, or I lost my
biggest sales guy and, you know,kissed two million in revenue.
Goodbye that year, and he setup shop right down the street.
(28:30):
But you've got the humility andself-awareness to say you know,
I'm, the biggest challenge tomy progress is me, and I think
there's a lot of guys that canidentify that with that, because
that is the leadershipchallenge, Right?
I mean it's like Maxwell, likeJohn Maxwell talks about in his
book on leadership, the 21irrefutable laws of leadership,
(28:50):
the law of the lid.
Like you have a limited amountof experience and strengths and
gifts, and whatever you want tocall it, it's limited, and that
your leadership is never goingto outpace that.
So I think it's like you said.
The key, though, is surroundingyourself with other guys
learning, getting, coaching,getting you know, being a
(29:13):
student basically a business andof and of yourself.
There's a really good um versein the Bible where Paul.
Paul is talking to Timothy, hiswho, he's mentoring, and he
says examine yourself and yourdoctrine, like don't just try to
be a good teacher of ofdoctrine, or of the word, like
examine yourself to be a studentof yourself, be a learner and,
(29:37):
uh, try to improve.
I mean we're going back to thatgap thing, like there's always
a gap between who we are asleaders and who we could be, and
I think that's been one of theyou know, for me personally,
that's been one of the biggestchallenges in my life is the
slowness of my growth.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Right Cause you make the same mistakes again and
again and for the 1100 hundredthtime.
It's like man, what with me youmentioned okay, I can, he went
on the culture index thing whenhe got to me.
He's like this guy is what Icall the Texas tornado.
He's like he's a dealmaker,he's a driver, he pushes to make
(30:16):
things happen.
He's going to come at you andsay, hey, let's do this, this is
critical.
Hey, let's think about that too, and he's just going to keep
going or whatever.
Well, the dark side to that is Ilack patience, I lack tact.
I don't.
You know, I can on the darkside.
(30:36):
If I'm given into too muchselfishness or impatience or
fear, it can come across asreally pushy.
So I know that about myself.
So what do I do?
I have to apologize for it.
I mean I've called my fellowbusiness partners and been like
man, I'm sorry, I was toointense in that meeting.
Or our girls are getting readyfor bedtime and it's like, hey,
I'm sorry, daddy, took thetoothbrushing a little too
(30:57):
seriously.
Like will you please forgive mefor that.
It's not a big deal.
And it's just like.
How many times am I going tohave to confess that and
apologize for that?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
But I guess that's what keeps you humble.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
It's like, hey, you know, you're you're, you're,
we're all a mixture ofrighteousness and
unrighteousness or weaknesses.
Yeah, I mean, what do they say?
How you do some things is howyou do all things.
So, uh, when you're reflectingon that, you don't have to look
through the lens of what do I doin my business.
But, like you mentioned, I, you, you had this crossover.
(31:28):
I, I realized this and see thisin my personal life as well.
So, as far as being self-aware,like there's signs, like
they're out there.
So if you're, if you're outthere thinking about, like how
do I evaluate myself?
Yep, like how you do somethings is how you is how you do
everything.
So, um, you know, problems thatyou're having in your personal
life tend to permeate into yourbusiness as well.
(31:50):
So, if you've got weaknesses,like it's good to be aware it's,
it's good to ask people, it'sgood because we also look at
ourselves differently andpersonally.
For you, I, what's goingthrough my head when I'm talking
to you about it is like, yeah,you, you're pretty harsh on
yourself, cause I know you, Ithink fairly well and I and I I
don't I don't see that at leastyou're very good at tempering
(32:10):
any sort of impatience orfrustration.
You do a good job about that,so you've clearly worked on,
worked on that on a personallevel, so I applaud you for that
.
But it is good to kind of getother people's perspective too.
If you're really interested inknowing how you come across and
how you are perceived, like askpeople, talk to them, like find
your confidants and and talk tothem about it, because if you,
(32:34):
if you really want to startaddressing your concerns, um
then yeah, that's the way Iwould go about doing it man.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So here's a challenge for anybody listening or
watching this clip.
Go to the leaders on your teamand say, hey, I'd like some
feedback.
Yeah, what have I done?
Well, what's one thing I couldimprove on, to do even better,
from a character standpoint, nota skill standpoint.
What's something I could dobetter, whether it's being more
(33:01):
approachable, being a bettercommunicator, being more helpful
, more empathetic, whatever itmight be.
We can all work on skills, butthe hardest thing to develop is
character.
So, man, that's a challenge.
I just challenge everybodylistening.
And the cool thing is is justlast week, robert Posey, our
chief revenue officer, called me.
(33:21):
He told me he wanted to talkabout it and he called me.
He said I just want to call toget, I want feedback, I want
feedback on me, how am I doingin this role?
And I also want to give yousome feedback.
And he raised an issue that hekind of caused a little rub and
it was great man, it's like hey,we're both a work in progress,
thank you for being, thank youfor loving me enough to tell me.
(33:42):
And there's a really good bookwe're mentioning a lot of books
on this, this in thisconversation.
There's a really good bookcalled humility.
I forget the name of the author.
It's a small little book but heshares this story in the
opening and he shares storiesabout all the dumb things Like I
have no right to be prideful.
Here's all the stupid things Ido.
Like I heard a funny sound frommy car and I went and looked
(34:04):
out.
You know, looked at the hoodLike I knew any.
I don't.
He's like I don't even know howto name a single part of my car
.
If you open the hood andanyways, he talks about if
you're, he shares a story of ifyou're at a restaurant with a
beautiful woman maybe it's yourwife or maybe you're single and
it's a woman you're dating andyou're on this really expensive
(34:24):
date.
If I walk by and I see you atthe table with this woman and
you've just got this like hugesmear of mustard or something
sauce on your face, got thislike huge smear of mustard or
something sauce on your face.
If I love you, I'm going totell you like I'm going to be
like Jack hey, man, good to seeyou, by the way, you got this
huge smear of sauce on your face.
If I love you, I'm going totell you it's not me criticizing
(34:47):
you.
It's not me trying to bring youdown or discourage you, but it
takes humility to receive thatand it also takes humility to
share that.
And there's another quote by CSLewis that says humility is not
thinking less of oneself.
It's thinking of oneself lessright, like when you're around a
real humble person.
They really don't talk aboutthemselves a lot, they're just
(35:07):
real interested in you andthey're easy to talk with.
It's not somebody who's like,oh I suck, I'm the biggest loser
in the world.
Like that's not humility.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So yeah, it's just self.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Self-deprecation.
It's not the same thing.
Yeah, yeah, I have a friendthat's just extremely good at
that.
Um, we were kind of developinga friendship and and, uh, my
wife and invited him and hiswife to go out on a double date
and we, we left that double dateand going like we don't know
anything about these people andit's like, why is that?
(35:38):
But I feel really good, you know, I feel really like happy, I
wanted to be around them.
It's like, why is that?
Oh, yeah, it's because all theydid was care about me, right?
They, they let me talk, youknow, they let me share.
They asked questions and theylistened and it was, it was the
biggest lesson, because heembodies that like that
characteristic of of beinginterested in somebody else and
(36:01):
the way that that made me feel Iwas like that is the biggest
lesson ever.
I need to do that and Iactually think about him
consciously sometimes when I'm,when I'm talking to people, it's
like ask more questions, lookthem in the eyes, be more
interested in them, and they'regoing to like you because of the
way that makes them feel.
Yeah, people are mostcomfortable talking about
(36:24):
themselves.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
So it was a big lesson.
I think it's valuable.
No, that's good stuff.
Yeah, so we're rounding thecorner on our time.
I'd like to ask you just a fewquick questions.
Just give your best answer.
We'll keep it really short.
One is what's one greatresource you've had in your
business, whether it's a techplatform or whatever that's
really helped you go to the nextlevel?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
I mean CRM is is the biggest thing keeping organized.
Yeah, we're using job Nimbusright now and it's been
invaluable.
And they've grown as a companyas well.
We've done some beta testingwith them and we've given input
on development and that's.
That's been invaluable.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So anybody not using a CRM that might do that first
thing yeah, and you're talkingto I know you're talking to one
of our partners, one for thebooks, and we are builds out
custom CRMs and I am.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I can't tell you how excited I am about that.
I presented it to the teamyesterday in our leadership
meeting and the man just theability to get the numbers you
talk about know your numbersright.
We've heard tons of talks aboutthat and read books about that.
There's no other way than Imean.
There might be other ways, butthere's nobody doing what this
(37:34):
new platform is able to do, andI can't wait to implement it.
So, as much as we loveJobNimbus and we may do them
parallel for a little while tomake sure that all the
functionality transfers but, man, this new platform is just
insane with regards to knowingyour numbers.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
That's so good.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Do something with that.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
What's if you could do it all over again?
What's one thing you would dodifferent?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Uh, I would.
I would probably get boy.
You said one thing I'd probablyget a mentor earlier on.
I think it's worth theinvestment.
I really do.
I mean, I yeah that that wouldbe the thing.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Second thing would be um, get the right people like,
start working on and again,really in line with what we're
talking about is, know your ownweaknesses and then build your
team around that right you need.
You need other people aroundyou to to fill in all the gaps.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
That's so good man.
What's one book that's beenpivotal for you in business.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Anything EOS.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Like traction.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, traction probably would be man.
It's packed full of actionableitems and very practical way of
doing it.
As a matter of fact, it's sopractical that you think, like,
why isn't everybody doing this?
And so traction is veryactionable, very digestible and
(39:17):
very implementable.
So I would I yeah, a hundredpercent.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yep Traction is great .
And then last question iswhat's one lasting piece of
advice you want to give toanybody listening to this?
What's one big thing that youwould want them to take away
from our conversation?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I'm a big believer in people and I I believe also
that people are more than justtheir business.
You know, um, I, I want to tellpeople, I guess, that I know how
hard it is to do what you'redoing right and that you're,
without getting too fluffy, likeyou, can achieve what you set
out to do.
(40:02):
There's a path, there's a way,and what's beautiful about
business is that individualshave the ability to inject
themselves into their businessthat they're building, which
means that my offering in mymarket is different than
somebody else in there, and evenin my market, and their, their
customer may be a differentcustomer, appreciate what they
(40:23):
do better than what I do.
But what's really beautiful isthat it is your business can be
an extension of you and, andthere's room, right, there's
room for all this creativity andum and the way that we do
things.
So you, you know, I, I, Ibelieve in in putting your whole
heart into it and getting itdone.
And if you persevere which isagain the thing I always, always
(40:47):
rely on is, I can persevere, Ican work really hard, I can, I
can do the next right thing.
If you have that mentality,then you can achieve whatever
dream that you have.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
So good man.
You got to believe it.
You got to believe in theopportunity.
That's great.
Well, jack Cottrell, with Jackthe roofer man, it's been great
talking to you.
Thanks for being on the show.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
You bet, dylan, thank you.
all right, welcome to the limitless roofing show.
My name is dylan mccabe and inevery episode we talk with
roofing owners and just talkthrough struggles, challenges,
visions and dreams.
Uh, to to really help you go tothe next level, we give you a
seat at the table so that youcan listen in.
We all have something to learnfrom one another.
Iron sharpens iron, and that'sthe point of this show.
(00:29):
And today we've got JackCottrell.
He's actually the very firstmember to the Limitless Roofing
GPO, which is really cool, andhe's become a friend and we
wanted him to have him on theshow.
So, jack, welcome to the show,man.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I appreciate it, Dylan.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah.
So what I'd like to do is justkind of open up about your story
and share about your story.
How'd you get into roofing,what were you doing before that
and what did it look likegetting into it?
Where are you?
What's your company?
Just kind of the 30,000 footview.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm out of Denver now, but it didn't
start out that way.
I there was nothing beforeroofing, and then that's pretty
much really accurate.
I started roofing when I was 16years old.
So I had a friend, a familyfriend, that owned a roofing
company and he started thatcompany just to put himself
(01:21):
through dental school.
So he needed cheap labor andthat's where I came in.
So I installed roofs for, youknow, from 16 to 21 years old,
uh, and then, and then he setoff to Denver to uh, explore an
opportunity selling for anothercompany.
And a few months after he leftPortland where I was, where I
(01:47):
was, I called him up because Ikind of saw the writing on the
wall that his company inPortland wasn't going to survive
without him.
So I said I need to probablylook at some other alternatives
and I'm getting older andwanting to establish myself a
little bit more and strike outon my own.
I called him up and said, hey,can I, can I do what you're
(02:09):
doing out there in Denver?
And he's like, yep, open thedoor.
And then so I came out andstarted selling roofs, uh, at
the same company he was at.
So that's what got me to Denver, um, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So I didn't know.
So you were an installer forhow long?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Like five years.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
No kidding, I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, that's the only thing I really had to my in my
resume.
I, when I came out to Denver,my my problem is that my whole
life I've looked like I wasreally young, I mean a lot
younger than I was.
So if I was 16, I mean you'rethinking you're talking to a
12-year-old.
When I was 21, people thought Iwas 15, 16 years old and
(02:50):
they're like why.
It was really impressed upon methat people I was behind
because people thought I was soyoung and I had nothing to offer
.
So the only feather in my capat that point was I really knew
roofing.
I knew how to install, so Ifelt very comfortable up on a
roof, felt very comfortabletalking to people about how
(03:12):
things worked.
So I really relied on thatheavily.
With regards to my sales pitch,why do you want to use me?
Well, I know more than theother salespeople that are twice
my age.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I I I'm I know more than the other salespeople that
are twice my age.
So and so you, and so, now thatyou're 60, you look like you're
a 30.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I just I just celebrated my 45th birthday, so
you know the beard, the beard.
When I finally was able to dolike, grow some hair on my face,
I did it and it took a while.
So I'm afraid to shave it offbecause I don't know what what
that would look like.
But yeah, that that's.
That was the first iteration ofof of trying to grow up.
You know what I mean.
Like, let's grow some facialhair.
Let's see if I can even do it.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
So you go from install, being an installer at
16 years old.
You do that for several yearsand you think, man, I could do
this, I could sell roofs andhave my own business.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So but you decided about my own business at the
time.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Oh, just selling roofs.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, I wanted to sell Cause.
At the same time I was I wasnot thinking I was always trying
to get out of roofing.
Uh, it was a means to an end.
I was trying to go to, uh, getinto nursing school.
Actually.
So I, from six, you know, fromtime I graduated high school, uh
, up until I mean, shoot, yearsafter I started selling, I was
just taking a class at a time.
(04:33):
I was going, I was trying toget myself into into, into, you
know, um, to do an undergrad andget into nursing.
So there, there did come a timewhen I said I have to make a
choice because I'm not smartenough to do both.
I'm not smart enough tocontinue my career in roofing
(04:54):
and also do nursing school.
So I had to make a make achoice.
And and I'm a numbers person,so I I just crunched all the
numbers and the long and shortof it is, if I go to nursing
school, I'm going to take ondebt, which I hate, and then I'm
going to end up out of schoolin a few years and make less
money than I was making roofing.
(05:14):
So, as much as I hated it, I waslike you know what this is my
life now I got to make a choice,and I started a family in the
meantime as well, and so I hadobligations.
So roofing became my life, andso I dedicated everything to it
and worked for several differentcompanies in Denver and did all
the jobs right Quality control,production, commercial
(05:37):
production.
I did, you know, I did all thatstuff.
And then fast forward.
I was working for a companythat I thought I was going to
have a lot of opportunity in anduh, we you know, me and the
owner butted heads and we endedup parting ways.
And then it was at that pointin January like in January, snow
(05:57):
on the ground and everything.
I was like I, I, I had toconvince myself that I was good
enough, smart enough, you know,ready to do my own thing, and so
I just plugged away and startedit and see where it went.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And when was that?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
That was 2017.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
2017.
So you decide I'm going tostrike off on my own, I'm going
to start my own business.
Let's talk about that, becausethere's a lot of people out
there that I know personally inmy network of friends, family,
et cetera that would like to dosomething entrepreneurial or
have a business or a sidebusiness, but they just
(06:42):
constantly think of the well,how's this going to work, How's
this going to work, How's thatgoing to work?
What if this goes wrong?
What if that goes wrong?
But you're an entrepreneur,you're a business owner.
I'm a business owner.
Walk me through what's thethought process that you kind of
went through as you wrestledwith that, to where you decided
I'm going to take the risk anddo this on my own.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
It was a wrestle.
I I deal with uh,self-confidence and always have
again thinking I'm good enoughand I'm able enough to do it.
Um, I believed that I couldoutwork anybody and I still do I
.
So I always have that in myback pocket Like if, if
everything goes to crap, like Ican still.
(07:24):
I can still work my way throughany problem I've got.
But I am usually more future,futuristic in my thinking.
So I do tend to plan and dream.
A lot of dreaming goes on in myhead about where I want things
to go.
But I also have the benefit ofthinking, of not thinking too
(07:45):
far ahead in my actions.
So I, I, I know that there's alot of stuff in between my
30,000 foot view and my 5,000foot view, or boots on the
ground view, or whatever youwant to call it.
I'm able to at least lookthrough both lenses and I don't
let the what ifs really deter mefrom moving forward.
(08:07):
So I tend to put my head downand look at the next task and I
always think of it like the nextbridge.
There's always a bridge you gotto cross.
There's always a crevasse yougot to get over right, there's
always a barrier.
There's always something you'vegot to get over.
Right, there's always a barrier, there's always something
you've got to get through andget over, and so I always
imagine that in my mind, likethese are just bridges I got to
(08:29):
cross, and I don't.
I know that I've got lots andlots of bridges to get to cross
to get to where I want to go,but putting my head down and
crossing the very next one madea lot of sense to me.
So that's that was.
It was my, it's theperseverance part, that that I'm
strong in.
That's one characteristic thatI, that I do well, and so that's
(08:51):
what I rely on pretty heavily.
Early ages of my business, youknow, like I w, I was quick
story I sold my first job undermy company name and I didn't
have a contract, I didn't haveanything.
So I was, I was, I was on myway and writing up something in
in, uh, in Excel, and I was justcopying and pasting whatever I
(09:14):
could from other contracts thatI had gathered over the years,
right, other companies that I'dworked for, and whatever, hoping
I had no.
Legally speaking, if you lookedat that contract today you'd be
like, yeah, there's holes allover the places, there's no way
that this is enforceable.
But I had a contract to presentuh to my first client and then
so clearly for me like I need torevise my contract and then
(09:37):
then I need to, so that's thenext thing I need to do.
I need to make sure that I'mlegal.
Well, I did that first jobwithout insurance.
I know at some point I made thedecision like, hey, we have
enough money in the bank.
Uh, I need to go get insurance.
I just need to continue to addlegit legitimacy to my business,
um, without freaking out toomuch about all the things that I
didn't have.
So that was that's really mymentality for uh addressing
(10:02):
problems and moving forward andgetting over the hurdles.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Yeah, so you're.
I mean, you have this idea orthis picture of what it could
look like, but you know that youcan stick it out and just keep
going.
I can't remember the quote.
There's some quote that's likeperseverance is the omnipotent
virtue or whatever it's like.
There's plenty of people thathave genius level IQs but
(10:28):
they've done nothing with it.
And there's people who havebeen given opportunities that
they've squandered, but it'sjust that grit and determination
that wins out in the end.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I don't have any tattoos, but I always told
myself, if I got one, it wouldbe fortitude and invincible,
which is the motto from fromErnest Shackleton, and that was
his family motto and that wasthrough endurance we conquer.
And I'm like, that's me.
I can do that Right.
I'm not the smartest guy, I'mnot the biggest guy, I'm not the
(11:00):
, you know.
I'm not the the, I don't know.
You want to call it whateverthing that you think of when you
think of a leader and abusiness owner and entrepreneur.
I I'm not most of those things,but I can.
I can persevere.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Man, that's, that's interesting.
You bring that up.
I just finished that book onyeah the endurance.
I did the audio version and 99%of the book is things going
wrong.
I mean it's just a beating.
The book is for me.
It was hard to listen to, likeI would stop listening to it for
a couple of weeks at a timebecause I would just get
(11:34):
depressed.
Right Like these guys are onthe ocean everything's going
wrong, people are freezing, youknow.
Then they land on an island andthey think it's their salvation
, only to find out the island isuninhabitable.
They can't stay.
There's watermarks where thetide goes above their heads.
At the place they're camped outand then they have to go
(11:54):
sailing again and it's justdramatic challenge after
dramatic challenge.
But the end of the book whenthey it's a good story, it ends
well.
And have you read the book?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, so at the end, man, that final scene, when I
won't say it for anybody whowants to read the book, but the
final scene is so moving, I likeI wept.
I just wept at the end, wheneverything gets wrapped up in,
like the last five minutes ofthe book, right, or 10 minutes
of the book Right, or 10 minutesof the book, and then I retold
it to Miller at lunch and I gotall choked up and couldn't
(12:29):
hardly tell him about it atlunch.
I mean, you know me well enoughby now, I'm a sensitive guy.
But man, I mean when you lookat that you think, yeah, I've
gone through some really toughstuff in business, but I haven't
been through that Like.
I haven't been through thatRight, like I haven't been on
the ice for 18 months.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Exactly so well, I mean, okay, so you, you
mentioned a book.
I don't remember you were doinga, you were a keynote speaker
at some point, maybe a year agoor something like that, and you
mentioned a book and it was intothin air and I and I, so I
purchased that book and then Iactually just finished it, I
think two days ago, and that'sthe opposite right, like things
(13:11):
looking like they were getting,they were going well, and then
all of a sudden it didn't gowell and it's not a happy ending
, it's and that is.
That is that is rough, right,you, you use that book, that
story, as a, as a story to showyou know, talk about leadership,
but that's when everything wentreally, really wrong.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, it was, it waspretty good.
(13:33):
So those are really on twoopposite sides of, like the the
outcome spectrum.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, Into thin air is such agood one though, Cause I I love
the way Krakauer writes thatbook and his perspective on
things, and it is a study inleadership.
The decisions you make, youknow, especially on with that
one when they started splittingthe team up and the leader of
the group going off on his ownand Beck Weathers is waiting for
(14:00):
him.
The leader never comes back.
I mean, it's just so manythings went wrong.
Their decision to leave oxygentanks behind to reduce weight
just terrible decisions.
Yeah, that's a crazy book.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
But yeah, so let's heart wrenching as well.
I mean, that was, that was atragedy for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And he also wrote Into the Wild, which is a, which is an
awesome book.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I agree with you.
I love the way his his writingstyle is.
I'll read that one probablynext or really close to next.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, yeah, that one's really good.
Um movie's good too, but so soyou, you started selling roofs
around 2017.
Um, let's fast forward to today, Like what's your makeup?
What's your target this yearfor revenue?
What's your?
How many people do you haveworking with you?
Stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, it ebbs and flows, for sure, but you know,
it's like the stock market,right as far as our revenue goes
.
It goes up and down, buttrajectory wise, it's all good
stuff.
We are entering a period now ofretraction, if you want to use
that word, where we're shrinking.
The size of our team isshrinking a little bit because
(15:09):
we're trimming some fat andmaking things more efficient.
I'm very much in the mode ofefficiency because I think we
can do more with less, and thenthat will help propel us forward
to take advantage ofopportunities in the future.
We're looking at purchasing abuilding, adding some team
(15:30):
members, but we probably goingto be looking at doing that in
the spring.
But as far as where we are,where we've been, like we did
what did we do?
Six and a half million lastyear and it was pretty
consistent with the year beforethat, and then you know, before
that that was a pretty big leapbecause we had in Denver, we had
like three years of really nostorms and our retail model.
(15:51):
When I started in 2017, we hadlike three years of of really no
storms and our retail model.
When I started in 2017, we were, we were blessed with a storm,
you know and I had enoughcontacts and had been in the
business long enough to where wedid.
We did more than what we shouldhave done.
We took on more than we shouldhave.
The sales came easy, but theproduction was not in place and
so we we struggled through thata lot, had a lot of a lot of
(16:12):
things to overcome, but, um, thesales really haven't been the
problem.
Uh, it's always about executingand and maintaining your
promises to your customers anddoing right by them and giving
them the service that theydeserve, that they expect when
they sign a contract with you.
So we I'm I'm really prettyconservative.
(16:35):
I'm not the mogul typenecessarily.
I'm the slow and steady growthbecause I think that's
sustainable and I don't incurtoo much debt.
I'm conservative on that frontas well.
So we go by the speed of cash.
So we've experienced a littlebit of a retraction in Denver,
(16:58):
at least for my company, and Ifeel like the industry in this
market as well, was a little bitlow.
So we're kind of dealing withthat right now.
But I think that ourfoundational we got some more
money in the bank than we'veever had and we're ready to grow
.
But we're making some changesinternally so that we feel like
we can be more nimble andrespond to the market quickly.
(17:24):
So I don't know if that answersyour question.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
No, that's good.
Is your question?
No, that's good.
So so, for those listening in,what do you?
What's your goal for growthover the next year or two?
Is it, is it a hundred percentstorm work?
Is it retail as well?
Are you looking to kind ofmaintain where you're at?
What's your?
What are you thinking for thenext year or two?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, when I, when I started the business, it was
insurance, and I think that'swhere I was trying to go with
that story is, we were insuranceand so like 95% of our stuff
was insurance and then we weredry and that really flip flop.
So we were 90% retail duringthat time and then, when we got
hit with another storm in 2023,like it inversed again, so we
(18:09):
were doing 90% insurance.
So we have the ability to doboth.
I think we're well set up to doeither or, uh, we're not, we're
not big enough, I think, towhere we can rely on the retail.
Uh, like completely, we can'tsay that like 50% of our stuff
is going to come from re, fromretail, because it's just, it
just doesn't seem to work thatway.
(18:31):
I'd like to and we we do work onour branding and try to be
omnipresent.
You know we're working withdoing some Facebook ads right
now, which we haven't reallydone before.
We're trying to, you know,sponsor local events, being more
active with the chamber ofcommerce.
You know, putting our sign onballparks and stuff like that.
So we're trying to like buildthe brand and make sure that
(18:51):
we're we're present all the time.
Um, and I think that that helpsus to become more retail.
But we, when we have insurancework it, it blows everything up.
I mean it.
It becomes very, very prominentpart of our business which we
can handle.
We, we love doing insurancework as well, but, um, yeah.
So I think I think movingforward, we are.
(19:13):
I would like to be at 10 millionin two years and I think that's
, that's pretty achievable.
We are working really hardinternally on our, you know,
sops and reevaluating all thoseand then building SOPs so that
we can bring on the right people.
We I've hired and we've talkedabout this you and I have
privately, but, like I, I'vehired out of desperation in the
(19:33):
past.
You know we've got all thiswork to do.
Let's, let's get some peopleand fill, fill some seats.
But you know the Jim Collinsthing where you got to get the
right people in the right seats.
That's, that's the trick andthat's something I haven't
really mastered yet.
But we are going to be morepatient, we're going to spend it
, we're going to have a processfor hiring and bringing people
into the company that are theright people, that buy into the
(19:56):
vision and that way I think that, as far as my plan moving
forward, that's going to be bigpicture.
That's our way of of gettingpast the hurdle and not really a
hurdle, but getting past ourprevious benchmarks.
I think that 10 million is isvery achievable in my market,
even with the relatively smallteam that I've got.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
No, that's good.
Yeah, a lot of guys think abouthow.
Like how am I going to go fromfive or 6 million to 10 million
in two years?
And it's really not a.
I mean the how you can work onthat, but the real question is
who?
That's right.
I know that book by DanSullivan.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
That's probably out of sight.
It's right now that book by DanSullivan and, um yeah, what's?
Speaker 1 (20:35):
his face.
Uh, anyway, who, not how.
I mean, it's like you need theright who, and in fact we've
been.
We've been at Limitless we'vebeen.
Um, we hired a culture indexcoach and actually, since you're
a forged member in our forgedmastermind, you're going to get
access to this.
We haven't announced it to youguys yet, so there's that it's
(20:57):
announced now.
Awesome.
But we hired him and he givesthis assessment called Culture
Index, and Culture Indexassesses your personality, but
it also assesses your tendenciesand stuff like that, and then
it assesses how you feel aboutthe role you're in.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
To see, if there's to see if those two are um
aligning with one another.
And so they say they claim thatit's 93% accurate on the first
take and it's 97% accurate onthe second, and it only takes
about 10 minutes to take thisassessment.
And it only takes about 10minutes to take this assessment.
I did it like 15 years ago Iwas talking to an insurance
(21:37):
broker about a job and they hadme take it.
And then I took it again abouta year ago and my result was the
exact same.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
But me and Robert and Miller all took it and this
culture index coach walked usthrough and I mean, in 10
minutes he pegged us.
I mean he was like all right,dylan, we're going to get to you
in a minute.
And then he's like now, robert,he's like you're what I call
the philosopher.
He's like you like to ask 10questions, play devil's advocate
(22:08):
, you have a futuristic mind,but you really like to get into
the how to and the what.
If you're you're, you'reskeptical by nature.
You like to hit the brakes andthink through things.
I mean, it was like he was inRobert's head.
It was crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I actually just got off a call with Robert right
With our Forbes meeting.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I'm like then he did the same thing to Miller and
then he got to me and nailed meand we're just like wow.
But the cool thing about it isthey claim that what you can do
with Culture Index and this isfor everybody listening to this
what you can do with CultureIndex is you have the person
you're thinking of hiring, takethat assessment and then you
(22:47):
have the role clearly writtenand they coach you on how to
write a job description and youknow, before you hire them,
whether they have the righttendencies or not for that role,
which could save all of us aton of time and stress that's a
big filter like, if I could knowahead of time, it's highly
likely that you're a great fitfor this role, which means
you'll probably really enjoy itand stay with me long term
(23:09):
versus you're not the right.
You're way out of the right seat, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Right.
So anyway that's an awesometool, for sure.
And then you just got to fillin all the gaps, like are they
ethical, are they presentable?
You know what I mean?
What's their communicationstyle, like that type of stuff.
But yeah, absolutely, that's,that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
So let's shift and talk about like you're obviously
doing well.
I look at you and I think manJack is successful.
Of course, there's always a gapbetween where you are and where
you could be.
Yeah, it's just a part of beinga business person.
But you have made it to a placewhere you're successful.
You're doing well, yourfamily's secure, you see a path
to grow, but you're definitelynot in crisis mode.
(23:50):
Are we going to make it?
You, you're definitely not incrisis mode.
Are we going to make it?
You're not doing just a millionor 2 million a year.
You're doing well, right?
So a lot of guys may see thatand go man Jack's doing really
well, but you've been doing thisfor a while.
Let's talk about challenges.
We can all identify withchallenges and being a business
owner, it's just like nonstop.
I mean, you're dealing with newchallenges every month.
(24:10):
What's one of the biggestchallenges you faced as a
business owner?
And let's get into that and howyou dealt with that and what
lessons you learned and stufflike that.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Sure, yeah, it's very prominent to me.
All of my own weaknesses andthe stuff that I'm dealing with
right now, currently in mybusiness, is people.
I really just want people to dotheir job.
I bring you on to do a job, Iwant you to do your job, and if
you can be a great leader andbring more problem solving to
(24:43):
the table, then that's a bonus.
So my weaknesses have been thatI believe in people probably a
little bit too much, andpersonally I'm a people pleaser,
and so that that that is aproblem that has raised its head
many, many times, because I Itend to be the one that bends
(25:08):
when it comes to negotiationsand it and you know, and I, I
want people to like me, and so I.
It's one of those things again,very early on where I didn't, I
had this thought in my head anentrepreneur, that's.
That would be awesome, thatwould be great.
I would love to do that.
I see the benefit I want to.
I want all the benefits frombeing an entrepreneur and owning
(25:28):
my business Um, the financialaspect of it, the freedom of
time, the unlimited ability tojust to craft my vision of my
lifestyle how I want it and beable to get all those things and
be able to provide for myfamily.
So it was very clear about thebenefits from it.
But what I keep on bumping upagainst is the fact, the fact
(25:50):
that I um is is that I get takenadvantage of more often than
not.
So that's, that's a personalproblem.
So I look at people like you,cause you, I think you are very
much well, not very much, butlike you're at least on the
other end, where it's like um,see a problem, address a problem
, like no skin off my nose,let's, let's.
(26:10):
We need to make this changeRight.
You even offered to help mewith uh letting a, letting a
team member go at some point,and it's like man, that's I wish
I had.
That, you know, um, but I can'tchange me.
I can work on, I can work onthings and I do, but being aware
of it, I think is is the firstthing.
And then, and then justchunking away at um, at growth,
(26:33):
you know, because my, my growthis for my lifetime and I I
recognize that um, some thingscome easily for me and other
things don't, and so I just haveto uh hedge against the things
that I'm not good at and thensurround myself with people that
that are good at those thingsand and I need them as mentors
(26:55):
and sounding boards and umadvisors for, for me, Um and I,
I think I'm doing a better jobof that um, instead of being
that one person that doeseverything.
Uh, things like, um, what isthat book?
Rocket fuel?
I read that one finished thatone up a couple of weeks ago,
where it was.
You know, the big takeaway forme is like I'm by design, by
(27:19):
people's, like nature, humannature is.
You're not going to be good ateverything, and that's okay.
And if I'm, naturally, am thethe visionary?
Um, it's you know, cause theysay right in there, they're like
, if you think that you're the5% or 3% of people that are good
at both, then you're probablywrong.
Right, you can't be a visionaryand an integrator and be really
(27:40):
, really good at both roles, andI tend to think, well, yeah,
I'm good at that, I'm good atthat, and I'm like trying to,
I'm this guy, right, I'm.
I'm this entrepreneur, I'm, I'mreally not.
I need to have somesupplemental help in my business
, and so being aware of that isprobably my biggest problem that
(28:02):
I've had, and it manifests inlots of different ways, but
that's big picture.
That's my biggest problem.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know, but that takes a lot of humility to say
that, because a lot of guys, ifI say what's been your biggest
challenge, they're going to say,oh well, it was this one year
where this job went south and itcost us and we almost lost our
business, or this happened orthat happened, or I lost my
biggest sales guy and, you know,kissed two million in revenue.
Goodbye that year, and he setup shop right down the street.
(28:30):
But you've got the humility andself-awareness to say you know,
I'm, the biggest challenge tomy progress is me, and I think
there's a lot of guys that canidentify that with that, because
that is the leadershipchallenge, Right?
I mean it's like Maxwell, likeJohn Maxwell talks about in his
book on leadership, the 21irrefutable laws of leadership,
(28:50):
the law of the lid.
Like you have a limited amountof experience and strengths and
gifts, and whatever you want tocall it, it's limited, and that
your leadership is never goingto outpace that.
So I think it's like you said.
The key, though, is surroundingyourself with other guys
learning, getting, coaching,getting you know, being a
(29:13):
student basically a business andof and of yourself.
There's a really good um versein the Bible where Paul.
Paul is talking to Timothy, hiswho, he's mentoring, and he
says examine yourself and yourdoctrine, like don't just try to
be a good teacher of ofdoctrine, or of the word, like
examine yourself to be a studentof yourself, be a learner and,
(29:37):
uh, try to improve.
I mean we're going back to thatgap thing, like there's always
a gap between who we are asleaders and who we could be, and
I think that's been one of theyou know, for me personally,
that's been one of the biggestchallenges in my life is the
slowness of my growth.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Right Cause you make the same mistakes again and
again and for the 1100 hundredthtime.
It's like man, what with me youmentioned okay, I can, he went
on the culture index thing whenhe got to me.
He's like this guy is what Icall the Texas tornado.
He's like he's a dealmaker,he's a driver, he pushes to make
(30:16):
things happen.
He's going to come at you andsay, hey, let's do this, this is
critical.
Hey, let's think about that too, and he's just going to keep
going or whatever.
Well, the dark side to that is Ilack patience, I lack tact.
I don't.
You know, I can on the darkside.
(30:36):
If I'm given into too muchselfishness or impatience or
fear, it can come across asreally pushy.
So I know that about myself.
So what do I do?
I have to apologize for it.
I mean I've called my fellowbusiness partners and been like
man, I'm sorry, I was toointense in that meeting.
Or our girls are getting readyfor bedtime and it's like, hey,
I'm sorry, daddy, took thetoothbrushing a little too
(30:57):
seriously.
Like will you please forgive mefor that.
It's not a big deal.
And it's just like.
How many times am I going tohave to confess that and
apologize for that?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
But I guess that's what keeps you humble.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
It's like, hey, you know, you're you're, you're,
we're all a mixture ofrighteousness and
unrighteousness or weaknesses.
Yeah, I mean, what do they say?
How you do some things is howyou do all things.
So, uh, when you're reflectingon that, you don't have to look
through the lens of what do I doin my business.
But, like you mentioned, I, you, you had this crossover.
(31:28):
I, I realized this and see thisin my personal life as well.
So, as far as being self-aware,like there's signs, like
they're out there.
So if you're, if you're outthere thinking about, like how
do I evaluate myself?
Yep, like how you do somethings is how you is how you do
everything.
So, um, you know, problems thatyou're having in your personal
life tend to permeate into yourbusiness as well.
(31:50):
So, if you've got weaknesses,like it's good to be aware it's,
it's good to ask people, it'sgood because we also look at
ourselves differently andpersonally.
For you, I, what's goingthrough my head when I'm talking
to you about it is like, yeah,you, you're pretty harsh on
yourself, cause I know you, Ithink fairly well and I and I I
don't I don't see that at leastyou're very good at tempering
(32:10):
any sort of impatience orfrustration.
You do a good job about that,so you've clearly worked on,
worked on that on a personallevel, so I applaud you for that
.
But it is good to kind of getother people's perspective too.
If you're really interested inknowing how you come across and
how you are perceived, like askpeople, talk to them, like find
your confidants and and talk tothem about it, because if you,
(32:34):
if you really want to startaddressing your concerns, um
then yeah, that's the way Iwould go about doing it man.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So here's a challenge for anybody listening or
watching this clip.
Go to the leaders on your teamand say, hey, I'd like some
feedback.
Yeah, what have I done?
Well, what's one thing I couldimprove on, to do even better,
from a character standpoint, nota skill standpoint.
What's something I could dobetter, whether it's being more
(33:01):
approachable, being a bettercommunicator, being more helpful
, more empathetic, whatever itmight be.
We can all work on skills, butthe hardest thing to develop is
character.
So, man, that's a challenge.
I just challenge everybodylistening.
And the cool thing is is justlast week, robert Posey, our
chief revenue officer, called me.
(33:21):
He told me he wanted to talkabout it and he called me.
He said I just want to call toget, I want feedback, I want
feedback on me, how am I doingin this role?
And I also want to give yousome feedback.
And he raised an issue that hekind of caused a little rub and
it was great man, it's like hey,we're both a work in progress,
thank you for being, thank youfor loving me enough to tell me.
(33:42):
And there's a really good bookwe're mentioning a lot of books
on this, this in thisconversation.
There's a really good bookcalled humility.
I forget the name of the author.
It's a small little book but heshares this story in the
opening and he shares storiesabout all the dumb things Like I
have no right to be prideful.
Here's all the stupid things Ido.
Like I heard a funny sound frommy car and I went and looked
(34:04):
out.
You know, looked at the hoodLike I knew any.
I don't.
He's like I don't even know howto name a single part of my car
.
If you open the hood andanyways, he talks about if
you're, he shares a story of ifyou're at a restaurant with a
beautiful woman maybe it's yourwife or maybe you're single and
it's a woman you're dating andyou're on this really expensive
(34:24):
date.
If I walk by and I see you atthe table with this woman and
you've just got this like hugesmear of mustard or something
sauce on your face, got thislike huge smear of mustard or
something sauce on your face.
If I love you, I'm going totell you like I'm going to be
like Jack hey, man, good to seeyou, by the way, you got this
huge smear of sauce on your face.
If I love you, I'm going totell you it's not me criticizing
(34:47):
you.
It's not me trying to bring youdown or discourage you, but it
takes humility to receive thatand it also takes humility to
share that.
And there's another quote by CSLewis that says humility is not
thinking less of oneself.
It's thinking of oneself lessright, like when you're around a
real humble person.
They really don't talk aboutthemselves a lot, they're just
(35:07):
real interested in you andthey're easy to talk with.
It's not somebody who's like,oh I suck, I'm the biggest loser
in the world.
Like that's not humility.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
So yeah, it's just self.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Self-deprecation.
It's not the same thing.
Yeah, yeah, I have a friendthat's just extremely good at
that.
Um, we were kind of developinga friendship and and, uh, my
wife and invited him and hiswife to go out on a double date
and we, we left that double dateand going like we don't know
anything about these people andit's like, why is that?
(35:38):
But I feel really good, you know, I feel really like happy, I
wanted to be around them.
It's like, why is that?
Oh, yeah, it's because all theydid was care about me, right?
They, they let me talk, youknow, they let me share.
They asked questions and theylistened and it was, it was the
biggest lesson, because heembodies that like that
characteristic of of beinginterested in somebody else and
(36:01):
the way that that made me feel Iwas like that is the biggest
lesson ever.
I need to do that and Iactually think about him
consciously sometimes when I'm,when I'm talking to people, it's
like ask more questions, lookthem in the eyes, be more
interested in them, and they'regoing to like you because of the
way that makes them feel.
Yeah, people are mostcomfortable talking about
(36:24):
themselves.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
So it was a big lesson.
I think it's valuable.
No, that's good stuff.
Yeah, so we're rounding thecorner on our time.
I'd like to ask you just a fewquick questions.
Just give your best answer.
We'll keep it really short.
One is what's one greatresource you've had in your
business, whether it's a techplatform or whatever that's
really helped you go to the nextlevel?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
I mean CRM is is the biggest thing keeping organized.
Yeah, we're using job Nimbusright now and it's been
invaluable.
And they've grown as a companyas well.
We've done some beta testingwith them and we've given input
on development and that's.
That's been invaluable.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So anybody not using a CRM that might do that first
thing yeah, and you're talkingto I know you're talking to one
of our partners, one for thebooks, and we are builds out
custom CRMs and I am.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I can't tell you how excited I am about that.
I presented it to the teamyesterday in our leadership
meeting and the man just theability to get the numbers you
talk about know your numbersright.
We've heard tons of talks aboutthat and read books about that.
There's no other way than Imean.
There might be other ways, butthere's nobody doing what this
(37:34):
new platform is able to do, andI can't wait to implement it.
So, as much as we loveJobNimbus and we may do them
parallel for a little while tomake sure that all the
functionality transfers but, man, this new platform is just
insane with regards to knowingyour numbers.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
That's so good.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Do something with that.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
What's if you could do it all over again?
What's one thing you would dodifferent?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Uh, I would.
I would probably get boy.
You said one thing I'd probablyget a mentor earlier on.
I think it's worth theinvestment.
I really do.
I mean, I yeah that that wouldbe the thing.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Second thing would be um, get the right people like,
start working on and again,really in line with what we're
talking about is, know your ownweaknesses and then build your
team around that right you need.
You need other people aroundyou to to fill in all the gaps.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
That's so good man.
What's one book that's beenpivotal for you in business.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Anything EOS.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Like traction.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, traction probably would be man.
It's packed full of actionableitems and very practical way of
doing it.
As a matter of fact, it's sopractical that you think, like,
why isn't everybody doing this?
And so traction is veryactionable, very digestible and
(39:17):
very implementable.
So I would I yeah, a hundredpercent.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yep Traction is great .
And then last question iswhat's one lasting piece of
advice you want to give toanybody listening to this?
What's one big thing that youwould want them to take away
from our conversation?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I'm a big believer in people and I I believe also
that people are more than justtheir business.
You know, um, I, I want to tellpeople, I guess, that I know how
hard it is to do what you'redoing right and that you're,
without getting too fluffy, likeyou, can achieve what you set
out to do.
(40:02):
There's a path, there's a way,and what's beautiful about
business is that individualshave the ability to inject
themselves into their businessthat they're building, which
means that my offering in mymarket is different than
somebody else in there, and evenin my market, and their, their
customer may be a differentcustomer, appreciate what they
(40:23):
do better than what I do.
But what's really beautiful isthat it is your business can be
an extension of you and, andthere's room, right, there's
room for all this creativity andum and the way that we do
things.
So you, you know, I, I, Ibelieve in in putting your whole
heart into it and getting itdone.
And if you persevere which isagain the thing I always, always
(40:47):
rely on is, I can persevere, Ican work really hard, I can, I
can do the next right thing.
If you have that mentality,then you can achieve whatever
dream that you have.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
So good man.
You got to believe it.
You got to believe in theopportunity.
That's great.
Well, jack Cottrell, with Jackthe roofer man, it's been great
talking to you.
Thanks for being on the show.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
You bet, dylan, thank you.
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