April 21, 2025 • 41 mins
What happens when a roofing company owner faces his own mortality through a series of heart attacks that were repeatedly misdiagnosed? For Austin Watterson of Royal Roofing, this life-altering experience completely transformed his approach to business growth and sustainability.
Austin's journey begins with an unexpected background—starting as a Sonic Drive-in partner at just 19 years old before transitioning to roofing at 30. Unlike many in the industry who build their businesses through door knocking, Austin leveraged his natural talent for relationship building. "I've knocked less than probably 500 doors in my lifetime," he reveals, having built his company instead through strategic alliances, referral networks, and later, digital marketing.
The conversation takes a profound turn when Austin shares the story of his health crisis. For months, he experienced what doctors misdiagnosed as back pain and muscle spasms. These were actually multiple heart attacks affecting his thoracic spine rather than presenting with the stereotypical chest pain. "Sixty percent of heart attacks are in your back, not in your chest," Austin explains, hoping his story might save others who mistake similar symptoms for muscle issues.
This brush with mortality forced Austin to confront an uncomfortable question: what would happen to his business if he wasn't around to run it? The answer led him to completely rethink his approach to growth and ownership. "I'd rather have part of a watermelon than an entire grape," he shares, explaining why he's now pursuing mergers and partnerships to build Royal Roofing toward becoming a $100 million company within three years.
Austin's wisdom extends to all roofing business owners wondering how to scale their companies without burning out. His advice? Define your end goal, build systems that don't rely entirely on your presence, and don't be afraid to share ownership with the right partners. "Most guys in business, if they were to take a month off work, what would their company look like?" he challenges listeners to consider.
Ready to transform your roofing business from a one-person show into a sustainable enterprise that could survive without you? Listen now to discover why Austin believes the days of "working off Excel spreadsheets and Big Chief tablets" are over, and how the right partnerships might be the key to unlocking your company's true potential.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
all right, welcome to the limitless roofing show,
where we give you a seat at thetable as we talk to roofing
owners so that you can get theinsights, tips, tools, tactics
to take your company to the nextlevel.
And today I've got a personalfriend, austin watterson, on the
show and he's the owner ofRoyal Roofing.
So, austin, thanks for joiningme.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hey, thank you for having me on when you guys
reached out.
I'm glad you guys invited me on.
I'm glad to help and share someof what knowledge I do have to
help others as well.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That's what it's all about.
I mean, we were talking alittle bit before we went live,
(01:04):
and if you're a roofing aboutyour background, how did you get
into roofing?
How long have you been withRoyal Stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay, so how I got into roofing?
I was in the restaurantbusiness before this.
I actually was a partner inSonic Dragons at 19 years old.
They made me a partner in alocation and then got multiple
locations and I was about 30years old and I sold out my
(01:33):
partnership there and startedresearching industries and what
I wanted to do next anddefinitely wanted to stay in
business.
I was a big operations guywithin Sonic and so that's why I
don't handle a lot ofoperations.
And so I looked at roofing andactually went to work for a
(01:55):
company and the first thing theygave me was a blue post-it note
with an address on it told meto go start knocking, knocking
doors.
And I sat in that Ford truck ofmine and what the hell do I do
to knock a door and I'm supposedto look at their roof.
Well, the first door I knockedon, the lady told me yes, so I
(02:19):
didn't know what to do as a10-12 pitch roof and I waited
three hours for a manger to comeover and show me what to do.
So that's that was my now.
They're now that company, thebig private equity company, so
in Minnesota.
So, uh, they obviously did donesomething right to get where
they're at now.
But, uh, I shortly left thatcompany and and figured out
(02:44):
pretty quickly that business isbusiness whether you're flipping
hamburgers or selling roofing,business is business and numbers
is numbers.
So I branched out on my ownwith a friend of mine and I, and
we'd done this together for afew years and we split up in
2014.
I started oil and I got marriedin 2013, had twin girls and uh
(03:10):
gained a stepson and we uh shewas an, she was an insurance
agent and then she left theagency in 2000 into 2016 and
been working within the companyas well for many years.
So that's how we got startedand and and you know I was I was
(03:32):
good with working for someone,but I realized quickly there was
a need to to build all my, allmy.
I didn't knock doors, neverhave knocked doors.
Really I've.
I've knocked less than probably500 doors in my lifetime and
it's all relationship driven andI've built this company on
relationships and so my doorknocking was getting on my phone
(03:54):
and then, when social mediablew up, social media was good
for me, but we've grown andgrown in several years and you
know, I made a joke the otherday when people ask about
biggest contracts and I'm like,well, the biggest job ever done
is not my biggest contract.
(04:14):
My biggest contract is abouthalf a million dollars.
My biggest job ever done wasabout just under 2 million and I
never signed a contract withthe people, I just done the job.
So insurance paid out 600,000.
I handled everything, got itall taken care of and turned
into almost 2 million.
I never even signed a contractwith them.
(04:34):
So I've always done business onhandshakes and all that and
we've had to evolve over time.
So that's the businessevolution is real.
We've had to evolve over time.
So the business evolution isreal.
And you have to do things, signcontracts to protect all
parties involved, and the daysof working off of Excel
(04:57):
spreadsheets and Big Chieftablets are over and there's
still people that try to do that.
But you limit yourself withwith where you're at and you
have to have systems andprocesses in place for everyone
and draw a hard line on stuffand and you got to be able to,
you know, protect the brand andthat's that's been our biggest
(05:18):
thing is protecting our brand no, that's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
So I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I didn't realize you were an operations guy at sonic
yep, you got to figure out howto to stop roadblocks in any
part of the business and improvesystems and and, yep, that was
the sonic sonic.
I actually my.
I was the what, 17 years oldand I actually got third place
(05:44):
in the Sonic Games in 1998 or1997 in Las Vegas.
I enjoy that.
There's people that are stillnear and dear to me.
They gave me an opportunity.
I've had a job since I wasseven years old.
My family raced horses.
I lived on the racetrack andgrew up there and I had a job.
(06:08):
I learned quickly at a youngage that my parents didn't pay
money, so if I worked for them Ididn't make anything.
So I had to go work for othersto make money.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So so let's talk about, let's talk about royal a
little bit more.
You started the business in2013.
It's 2025 now, at the time ofrecording this.
I know you guys have come along way and, since you're a
process-driven guy, I'm sureyou've got some solid operations
.
Where are you guys hoping toland revenue-wise within the
(06:40):
next year and within the nextthree years?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I know you've got some targets in the future
within the next year and withinthe next three years.
I know you've got some targetsin the future Yep, so we're
we're, you know, finalizing amerger, trying to spread out
across Missouri Kansas a littlebit more.
But our goal is to add a mergerto buy a couple more companies
and, you know, possibly acquireand, and we got we have.
There's some really, reallygood sales guys out there that
(07:03):
have, you know, they've bouncedaround but they don't have an
end goal.
And there's been some guys thatyou know started their own
companies.
It's had good success, but theywant the.
The grind of trying to do it allyourself is hard.
It's real hard and trying okay.
Well, now I'm.
I'm trying to be an operator.
I got to go be a salesman.
I got to be operator.
(07:28):
I got to go be a salesman.
I got to help deal with thisproblem and trying to run
production and trying to find afive-tool player that can go run
their jobs.
You can't ask all your salesmento run their jobs.
So that's been the thing for us.
We've been able to createsystems and processes.
And how do you create betterquality?
Because you have to protect thebrand.
(07:48):
If you don't protect the brand,you'll end up with three-star
google reviews consistently yeah, 100.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
So are you guys?
Are you hoping to grow thisthing to be like a massive 100
million dollar year company, orare you hoping to camp out
around 20 or 30 one day?
What are you looking at?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Our goals on that is, yeah, as we're trying to merge
and acquire, our goal is to getto $100 million and I think
that's going to take probablythree years to do it.
But you know it takes a littlebit of ramping up, but we've got
some things in place.
Now we're going to get veryaggressive, from commission
structures to allowing otherpeople to make money too.
(08:34):
It's not all about making moneyfor Royal, not making money for
Abernathy Roofing.
It's a matter of making moneyfor allowing others to make
great income too and be part ofthe goal of the future.
Private equity is coming hot andheavy in the industry.
I mean, outside of the emailsand text messages and phone
calls you get, you know, 27times a week.
(08:56):
I know a lot of guys in thebusiness and talk to several
people we know and respect andyou know, at some point you know
you, you jump in.
Why did you start your company?
Well, I was going to pass on.
I want to build a roofingbusiness to pass on to my family
.
Some people want to do that.
But you look at the boomers outthere that their businesses,
(09:17):
their, their businesses, aregiven away because their kids
and grandkids don't want theirbusiness.
Kids and grandkids don't wanttheir business.
So I can create.
I can create stuff to pass onmy kids or I can create some
generational wealth for for usand for for, hopefully,
additional people within ourcompany.
(09:37):
When you know whether wepartner with private equity or
we sell to private equity, youknow I mean that's the stuff we
got to look at and that's, youknow that's going to be.
You know three to five yearsdown the road when we get into
more of that.
But you know the goal is numberone.
You have to take care of yourcustomers and you have to take
care of your team.
But yeah, that's our goal is toget to get to the a hundred
(10:00):
million.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
That's great and do do your.
I know you mentioned you don'tknock doors really because
you're you're just good atbuilding relationships and
strategic alliances and stufflike that.
But what about your sales guys?
Do they knock doors or are they?
Is their whole strategy to gobuild relationships as well?
So sometimes the bestquarterbacks- are not the best
coaches.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
sometimes the best quarterbacks are not the best
coaches.
Sometimes the best coaches werenever a good quarterback, and
so that's a, that's a thing thatit comes easy to you building
relationships.
Not everybody can go out andbuild a good relationship and
there's killer door knockersthat will destroy me every day
of the week if we're outknocking doors.
(10:41):
I know that and so I got I usemy strength and that's and
that's out talking people andbuilding relationships.
So we have a sales guy thatstarted last Monday.
He's already filed 10 claimsand legit damage on us.
He got in some areas and we'vepointed him there.
He's outdoing everyone elsealready and so, yeah, our sales
(11:05):
guy has guys knock doors.
But we also have a lot, of, alot of high quality leads that
come in.
You know I have a lot ofrealtors, a lot of insurance
agents that send us work.
Uh, we do.
We spend quite a bit ofmarketing too from you know
google, you know google lsa, uh,gmb, you got your facebook ads
all.
So we get a lot off of thatstuff as well, and we have a lot
(11:27):
of previous customers and justa lot of referrals from our
existing customers.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's good stuff.
So you guys are rocking androlling.
You're growing.
You're growing your teamworking on a merger.
You want to expand to becomeone of the biggest companies and
you've been in this for over 10years.
What's one of the biggestchallenges you've faced?
Because guys listening to thismay think, man, that's great,
like I don't know how they'redoing it.
(11:55):
I'm freaking, you know,climbing Mount Everest over here
and feel like I'm not makingany headway.
What's one of the biggestchallenges you faced?
And let's kind of work through.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And so I had a previous business partner and
that didn't work out so well andI went into the mindset I'm
never going to have anotherbusiness partner again.
And I actually had aconversation one day and you
know I'm 44 years old now and Ihad a guy tell me this, probably
(12:35):
seven, about, probably six,seven years ago.
He's like never do business,never going to a partnership
with someone that's out to provethemselves.
You need to go and be, andthat's usually someone, a
younger person, because youthere's never.
It's hard to compromise whenyou're, when you go, he goes.
(12:56):
Age is just a number.
But somebody that's moreseasoned in business, in their
40s and 50s and 60s, they'vebeen there, done that and
they're going to be pushing tothe same goal and understand
that it there's alwayscompromises, just just like a
marriage, just like anythingelse.
And so, to be honest with you,I was just going to be my wife
(13:20):
and I.
We're going to run the businessall that Well.
After a series of heart attackstwo years ago, that changed my
mindset and so, to get a littlepersonal on that, I had to sit
there in my in the hospital roombefore my quadruple bypass and
(13:41):
tell my wife how, what needed tobe done, business wise and
family wise if I didn't make itthrough my surgery.
And I told her there's a lot ofpeople she can lean on, but
when it came to the roofingbusiness, to our company, only
let one person help make anydecisions.
You take input from several ofthese people, but only let one
(14:03):
person be part of the decisionmaking and that's John Abernathy
.
And that's where we went withit and and you know that was our
conversation and you know toldher, you know I, just like
everybody else, I didn't have aestate planning and a lot of
(14:24):
that stuff in place.
And and so that's where, afterI had got got out of surgery and
went back to work, you know, afew weeks later, and get get
going again, it, it.
It changed my mindset of how Iwas going to set my family up
and it was irresponsibleirresponsible of me to think I
(14:46):
was going to dump this companyon my wife to run it and be more
than a mom and pop.
And we had a great team ofpeople and we still do and the
care and the love and thecompassion from that team that
helped me recover.
But at the same time, what arewe doing with the company.
(15:09):
I owe it to those people aswell.
I mean our team.
I owe it to them to make suretheir lives are not ruined.
We have Brooke tomorrow.
She celebrates her whatseven-year anniversary with us.
So you have people that youwant to make sure they're taken
care of along the way too.
And so the struggle withbusiness is what's your end goal
(15:32):
with business?
Is what your end goal?
If you don't have an end goal,it gets muddy for you and trying
to run a business by yourselflike, oh, I can't afford to make
that investment.
Well, how many people don'thave somebody answering their
phones 24-7?
I mean, you got to make thoseinvestments to do that, the
speed to lead and take care ofpeople.
(15:52):
And you know you got it.
Is that a good investment, nota bad, or good or bad investment
?
I spent three weeks at college,but I sure as hell have paid for
a lot of college, a lot oflearning lessons over the years,
and I've dumped.
You know, I've dumped 30, 50,75,000 and stuff that didn't
work out.
I've dumped 150,000 and stuffthat didn't work out.
(16:14):
I've dumped $150,000 in stuffthat didn't work out.
So those learning curves I liketo have all that money back,
but I wouldn't have made moremoney because I learned from
that mistake, if you don't learnfrom those things.
But to answer that question, thebiggest thing is trying to this
day and age, a one-man show ishard.
And I say you're trying to runyour company.
You have a few sales guyswithout putting in you know, 70,
(16:39):
80, 90 hours a week, it's hardto keep that company profitable.
Keep your team going, supportyour sales guys and then you're
allowing them to be the fivetool person they are.
But if they're trying to selland run their jobs, something's
going to suffer.
So you got to have guys thatcan run production and let your
sales guys go sell and let themdo what they're good at.
(17:00):
If you're good in production,not good at sales, and get in
production, not get.
Don't get in sales.
But if I said for after surgeryis, how do I change the
trajectory of this company?
Because if I end up with havinganother heart attack a year
from now and dying, what is thetrajectory?
(17:22):
I have to fix that and don't go.
So I took a step back and howwould I start a new company
again If I start at score zero?
I'm not going to do it alone.
I want to do it in multiplepeople.
It's called snowball effect andit's true.
You can go okay, I want ahundred percent of the profit,
(17:45):
or do I want 50% of the profit?
Do I want 25% of the profit?
Because 25% of the profit couldbe the same money I'm making
with less headaches and have ateam and growth and
sustainability is a huge wordfor me, and COVID was a real
reason that we business evolvedtremendously and you have to
(18:10):
evolve with it.
If you're trying to plan forthis quarter or right now, for
what you think is going tohappen this year, private equity
is already two years ahead ofus.
They're already planning twoand three years out.
What are they going to do?
They're coming to these marketsand, yeah, we have great
branding.
We have billboards everywhere.
We do a lot of digitalmarketing.
I've built this on relationshipsand we started spending more
(18:33):
money marketing and all that,but it's you got to have the
right people.
You have to have all that.
So my number one thing, thoughrepeat again, is there's a power
in numbers.
There's a power to have notjust a sales team.
That's good, and I'm talkingbusiness partners with the same
like-minded values, interests totake and traject forward,
(18:55):
because there's a lot of guysthat are really good.
That's been in this businessfor a long time and there's
still and there's nothing wrong.
I got, I got a really goodfriend that he does six, 700,000
a year in sales and he enjoyswhat he does.
He, he has one guy that helpshim with stuff and he goes and
does it and that's what he'shappy with.
(19:15):
I get that, I respect that.
But for me that stops if I'mnot here tomorrow, if I kill
over again.
That's why I'm leaving myfamily to set my family up to
deal with.
So that's not fair to them.
And I say family, that's familyup to deal with.
(19:37):
So that's not fair to them.
And not and I say family,that's not my wife and kids,
that's my wife and kids and andthe other people within the
company is, yeah, they can goget a job somewhere else
tomorrow, but that's not whatwe're after.
I mean we, we want more forthem.
So for us, that's what we'rewe're trying to do.
So for us, that's what we'rewe're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Man.
So what was it like?
Two things I want to get into.
One is the heart attack andthen the other thing of
partnership.
Cause I agree with you, I youknow, Miller Whedon and I are
business partners in thelimitless roofing GPO, and I
think I would have given up if Ihadn't had a partner to bounce
ideas off of, to pray with, tothink things through with.
It is so much weight on yourshoulders to grow a business all
(20:17):
by yourself and you can't comehome and bring it to your wife
every night either.
I mean, she needs a break fromthat stress too, and so if you
don't have anybody, it's prettyisolating.
So I'm so aligned with you onthat.
But let's get back into theheart attack thing, man, because
I'm 45.
I've thought about this too.
My grandfather had his firstheart attack at 35 years old.
He ended up having to get aquadruple bypass and he lived to
(20:41):
be 84, I believe, or 83.
But, um, what was that like man?
How did you?
What was that whole experiencelike of having a heart attack?
Did you start feeling sickleading up to that?
Or were there any warning signs?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Well, I do share this with as many people as I can,
because I had a series of heartattacks.
It started at the end ofJanuary and went to May and I
didn't know I was having heartattacks and I had a ton of them
and what was going on was Ithought I had pains, I was
(21:19):
having back pain, I was havingneck pain, where it's coming up
here and like a pinched nerve.
Any physical activity I mean Icould, I mean I could walk, you
know 50 yards, and all of asudden I feel this pinched nerve
in my back and I'd sit there,stretch it out and I mean it, it
take.
And one of the signs of of aheart attack is shortness of
(21:43):
breath.
I never had shortness of breath.
It took my breath away.
Cause it.
You know, you get kidney punchand you just kind of clench your
breath or get hit in the ribs.
You kind of clench your breath.
That's what it did to me.
Never put two and two together.
But I went to a chiropractor,all that.
It slowly got worse and worse.
I went to my primary care andshe started giving me nerve
(22:05):
pills and pain patches and allthat.
She never once I told her everysymptom I had, but yeah, it was
all back pain.
So I started getting these likeI thought they were muscle
spasms.
Well, between your shoulderblade and your spine is your
thoracic spine.
(22:25):
Well, your thoracic.
I figured out when I wassitting in the hospital and the
doctors walk in and it saysUniversity of Kansas
Cardiothoracic.
Well, cardiothoracic.
I'm a dumbass.
My thoracic that wasn't becausemy primary care actually sent
(22:48):
me to physical therapy for backpain, so she failed me big time.
And so my I uh actually was inOklahoma city mother's day
weekend, went down thereactually by myself to see my
horses, and I had Thursday nightmy son graduated.
I had a massive heart attackthat night.
Uh, friday I had a.
(23:09):
Stopped at Brahms in Tulsa andgrabbed some ice cream and a
sandwich and had a massive heartattack getting back in my truck
that that night, in thehospital or in the hospital in
the hotel, I had another.
I had to go sleep in my trucksitting up and dumb as me, but I
never once zero chest pain allin my back.
And so I ended up with two moremajor ones that weekend, three
(23:34):
more major ones that weekend,and my wife I did.
I told my wife I go.
I can see why people commitsuicide over pain.
I'm not committing suicide, butit makes more sense because I
can handle a lot of pain but wecan't get answers.
My primary care kept on kickingme back, kicking me back.
Anyway, she's like I got you anew doctor, you go.
(23:55):
In Tuesday went in that morning,told the lady little five foot
two, 80 pound redheaded doctor.
I told her my symptoms and shegoes it's your heart, I go, it's
not my heart.
And she goes it is your heart,I go.
No, it's not my heart.
She goes.
Why do you say that I go?
If it was my heart, I'd be deadby now.
And this has been going onsince January.
(24:17):
And she goes let me do an EKGand then we'll go from there.
And she did an EKG and she goesyou need to have surgery today.
So, we're going to try to.
I got you, we're going to sendyou over to a different hospital
and we're going to try to getsome stents put in.
And then I went and got stentsput in.
(24:41):
Well, I went to go get stentsput in and as soon as they went
in to start, they realized theycouldn't.
I had four blockages One was95% and the other three was over
85.
Transferred me to KU Med andthey give me Plavix.
(25:01):
I'd wait five days for surgery.
So I was having small heartattacks while I was in the
hospital and one of the doctorswalked in and and he's like your
EKG is crazy.
I go, what do you mean?
He goes, you've had a lot ofheart attacks or you've had a
lot of STEMIs.
I'm like what's a STEMI?
He goes.
He goes, don't Google it, butit's a massive heart.
(25:22):
It's your widow maker heartattack.
I'm like, oh, okay, he goes.
Yeah, you had a bunch of those,you've had a bunch of these.
I'm like, okay, well, good toknow, but I'm lucky I'm still
here.
So I tell that story not to bedramatic or any sympathy.
I don't.
I'm not asking for sympathy.
I'm doing it to save otherpeople though, because I was a
complete idiot and not go getother opinions.
(25:46):
I mean when that doctor coulddiagnose me that quick.
My wife told me the same thing.
I told her she was nuts becauseI trusted our primary care.
I was going to and all I everknew heart attacks.
Your heart's right here.
No, your heart's connected toyour thoracic spine.
That's a.
That was a muscle spasm.
Use your heart's right here.
No, your heart's connected toyour thoracic spine.
That's a.
That was a muscle spasm.
Use your heart having a spasm.
So, talking to doctors, 60percent of heart attacks are in
(26:11):
your back no, they're not inyour chest.
Yes, 60, don't matter.
You or miller could be.
You guys are both good, healthydudes and cholesterol is a big
part of your heart health andyou can have high cholesterol
and look healthy like you lookright now, and it's a lot to do
(26:33):
with your cholesterol.
But what they told me wasthere's a reason why a lot of
guys in their 40s and 50s havemassive heart attacks and die
because it's never chest pain.
They think there's a musclespasm in their back, there's
back pain.
They don't doesn't correlate intheir head to go to the
(26:53):
hospital and I can tell you amassive heart attack.
You are in full sweat modewithin about a minute and you
can't hardly breathe.
You don't want to breathe.
It takes your breath becauseyou're trying to hold your
breath to make the pain not beas painful as it is.
(27:16):
So I never thought it takesyour breath away or shortness of
breath.
No, it takes your breath away,and so I try to explain that to
people.
There's a difference and Iguess if you're a technical
person, then it's shortness ofbreath and taking your breath
away is two different things.
But I tell everybody that story.
(27:37):
What my doctor told me too is60% is in your back.
That story.
What my doctor told me too, is60% in your back.
People die from massive heartattacks all the time in their
40s and 50s because they'd neverrealized the heart attack.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So what happens when you're having the you said
massive heart attack a few times?
To me that's like your cheststarts killing you and you keel
over.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
But you're saying, you're sitting there in your
truck, you start having a lot ofback pain in your upper back.
That's what it originallystarted, as it felt like I had a
pinched nerve at the top of myspine, right there at the base
of my neck.
That's where it started at, andthen it got to right between my
shoulder blade and my spine.
It got, it got, you, could, youcould.
(28:27):
It felt like a, a muscle spasm,and it got to where you feel
like I realized that there's a,uh, there's a pressure point
right there that if you press onthe pressure point long enough,
it helps alleviate some of thatpain.
I figured that out because I'dhave my wife and kid, my
daughters, do that for me whenit got that bad.
Could you imagine if I wouldhave died right there in front
of my one of my daughters at thetime of nine years old, sitting
(28:48):
there pushing on dad's back andI I kill over and I think he, I
think I got saved to to for mykids, not for myself but for my
kids, because that would haverun their lives and and so
that's yeah, no, none in thechest is on the back.
(29:08):
So it started going down myspine, my thoracic spine further
the worse they got, and it wasjust, I mean, to this day you
feel stuff and you still like,is that a heart attack coming on
or is that?
But never gets it.
Never.
I never had those muscle spasmsAnytime you get a pain in your
back, but it was.
It would come.
(29:29):
I mean it was like a bad musclespasm and then just go away and
I was fine.
I mean, the one couple of thosein Oklahoma city lasted an hour
and a half to two hours.
Oh yeah, yeah, I was sitting inMidwest City at a 7-Eleven for
(29:50):
an hour and a half and it was 95degrees out and I was wringing
wet and I kind of thought I wasjust getting to be a bit of a
sissy, because I've always beenable to handle pain, but that
was one of the pain most painfulthings I ever had in my life.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
So it's extreme pain, shortness of breath, or you're
like kind of trying not tobreathe to lessen the pain, and
then it just goes away within anhour, hour and a half.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, and some of them last, some of them were
five or 10 minutes and you werefine.
Most majority of them was wasyou know, under 10 to 15 minutes
, and you go away and go back,go back to your day.
I mean, I'd have to sit down ina chair and once it got out,
once it it like it just wentaway.
That's what's weird and I nevercrazy.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
How high was your, how high was your cholesterol
you know what I don't remember?
There's probably up like 250,260, something pretty high yeah,
more than likely.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes, it's probably crazy, it's, it's.
I'm not too bad at my.
My cholesterol now is a littlebit high, but not too bad.
So you know I'm on cholesterolmedicine but oh gotcha, you know
, you know part of that.
I mean, yeah, it was it wascrazy and I and I share that
story.
Like I said, I don't need thesympathy.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
No.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You know, my sympathy needs to be with my kids and my
wife, but I need, I want toencourage others to pay
attention to those symptoms.
So and I've seriously, the moreI've talked about it, the more
people you realize.
The more I've talked about, themore people you realize.
People's like man.
I wish I would have known that,because I was around somebody
(31:29):
that had a massive heart attackand died, didn't know it was a
massive heart attack and theywere just having pains.
So you know CPR can help savesomebody.
So most of the people in ourcompany is certified in CPR now.
So doing those things goes along ways.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I mean it's a big deal, man.
Most guys, guys in particularare really not dialed into their
health and it's something thatmiller and I my business partner
and I are really passionateabout.
And I mean we've had both of ushave had extensive lab work
done.
We've worked with differentnaturopath doctors, health
clinics, and you know it's just,you know you only get one
(32:09):
chance.
It's not like you get to hitthe rewind button any of this.
If you haven't seen a doctor inthe last few years, go get
checked out, get some extensivelab work done, find out what
your numbers are.
You know if there's anythingpreventative you need to do.
(32:30):
I gave a talk on this issueabout six months ago at one of
Randy Brothers events and I gavea talk on faith, family,
fitness and finances like thefour major areas of your life,
and the fitness one.
I broke down my take on fitnessand supplements and health and
all this stuff and startedgetting into what I have for
(32:51):
breakfast and you know, eggswith olive oil and this and that
and the other and um, and Ijust kind of challenged the
crowd.
Like man, if you're eating outevery day and you're busy, I get
it, but like you're goingthrough McDonald's for the third
time that week.
That stuff's killing you, man.
You know we weren't.
God didn't create us to liveoff this fried, processed stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
No.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So the more natural you get, the more whole foods,
things that are not processed atall.
I mean, today for lunch I hadBrussels sprouts.
Brussels sprouts and, granted,they were really good.
I think they're probablycovered in maple syrup and sweet
potatoes and chicken.
I mean it was a very healthy,very tasty meal, but nothing was
(33:34):
processed.
So anyway, I appreciate yousharing that story.
What did that do to you fromjust a life perspective?
You're a business owner, you'rea man of faith, you've got a
family, you've got people thatdepend on you.
How did that change the way youlook at your day-to-day life?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I still get pretty wrapped up in our business and
business goals.
My habit's gotten a lot better.
I don't exercise near as muchas I should.
I mean most of my stuff'swalking.
I don't go to the gym oranything like I probably should.
Uh, I had chipotle for lunchjust before we got on the on the
(34:14):
call here so, but I only ateabout five bites that's.
I'm still getting it, but I don.
But I don't consume what I usedto for sure.
Man, I'm about 140 pounds downfrom my highest in 2019.
No kidding, yeah, I was aboutfour bills at one point.
(34:37):
A lot of that I'll blame myself,self-induced.
I had a bad family history ofheart issues and health issues,
but you know I have nobody toblame but myself on all that
either.
So it's easy to try to blame iton somebody else.
But when you're laying thereand you just got spatchcocked in
(34:58):
the hospital, that's what Icall it.
You know how you spatchcockedin the hospital, that's what I
call it.
You know how you spatchcock achicken.
I was just that's what it feltlike when they had me rip my
breastbone ripped open and andsurgery.
So it was.
It wasn't the best thing in theworld, so don't want to go
through it again, but I'd hateto see other people go through
it yeah, no, it's good stuff,but yeah, it's, it's for the
(35:19):
people around us.
So, though and direction, it wasnice because the company ran
really well without me andwithout my wife and if other
business owners.
If it would have been a yearbefore that, royal may not be in
business today, but I had agood team and good things in
(35:41):
place and was able to take careof a lot of and I say not in
business, we wouldn't be wherewe're at.
So we would have survived fine,but it would have been a
different trajectory.
But most guys in business, ifthey were to take a month off
work, what would their companylook like?
(36:02):
That's a big question.
What?
What did your company look likeif you took a month off work
and it maintained sustained ordrop?
I mean you.
You know that you have bigeffect in your business day in
and day out.
So everything should take astep back if you're not in the
day-to-day.
(36:22):
But the goal is to find thepeople and replace you with
somebody better than you andI've.
I am currently putting thoseteams together and as we're
opening additional offices,we've got guys with taking
profit shares, you know, takinga big profit share.
All those offices we're goingto open and and and a lot, of, a
lot of opportunity for growthand have some end game for guys.
(36:45):
It's never, never realized thatthe opportunity's out there for
them, so used to like well, Igotta eat what I kill and what's
my?
What's this look like when Ican't climb on roofs anymore?
What, uh, what, what's?
Guys love the roofing businessand they bounce around to a
couple different companies andthey've never you know whether
(37:07):
they had the money.
They didn't have the theydidn't want to go start their
own company, or somebody thatstarted their own company is
just overwhelming.
There's.
There's people I know that,just like me, is man.
When you're trying to run acompany, I mean, yeah, you can
go make really good money.
When you're trying to run acompany, I mean, yeah, you can
go make really good money, butyou're stuck doing it all and
you're working until one, two,three o'clock in the morning
(37:28):
trying to get paperwork done.
Then you're back up gotta gomeet the crew on a, get a build
started and there's not enoughhours in the day.
And so, well, how am I supposedto give up?
If I partner with someone, I'mgoing to give up half my income.
Well, that's so short-sighted.
Now, if I'm a partner, someoneI'm going to make still make the
same income, but lessresponsibilities.
(37:50):
We're going to grow, and sothat's where we're at right now
is where we're going to go growat a rapid level.
I held back our.
I held back our growth, so nowI want to change that.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, I'm with you on that, because we talked about
it before and we get approachedby investors and buyers and
stuff like that for our businessas well, and the conversation
is always OK well, how can wemaximize value together?
What do you want?
What's the valuation, what arethe numbers look like and all
this stuff.
But it comes back to one simpleconcept and that it for me
(38:24):
personally.
I'd rather have a part of awatermelon than an entire grape.
I know by myself if it, if it'sall mine, all the money's
coming to me.
Dylan McCabe can make some sortof impact, but if I align with
the right people and build adream team of leaders and
partners, I may have a piece ofthat watermelon, but that may be
(38:46):
20 times the size of the amountthat I would have had if I
would have stuck with the grapewhat I call the grape mentality.
So I think it's just reallypowerful when you get other
people leading the charge likethat with you.
I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, and so do you want to eat the whole watermelon
in one bite, or you want to eatthe grape in one bite?
Go eat your grape, because it'sa lot easier to maintain to eat
one bite at a time.
And if you try to, that's justlike business.
If you go and that grape, youcan go and take one bite at a
time.
That watermelon, it takes lotsof bites to get through it all.
(39:23):
So look at your business thatway too.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yeah, that's so true.
Well, man, we're coming up onthe end of our time.
Do you have any?
If there was one thing youcould say to other roofing
owners listening to this, whatwould that be?
What would be a parting pieceof advice?
What?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
would that be?
What would be a parting pieceof advice?
You know, probably one bigthing is sustainability.
How are you going to sustain?
What's your end goal?
Is you got to figure that out?
And if it's not, if that's whatyour vision is, you need to get
with the right people.
Surround yourself withlike-minded people,
accountability partners or otherpeople in the business.
(40:04):
You can, you can, you know,talk to someone that can mentor
you and and there's, there'snobody better than someone else
that's been there, done that.
Don't go hire a business coachthat does not know this business
in and out.
They haven't had the experienceexperience.
Don't go hire someone from adifferent industry to be a
business coach.
Don't do that.
It's a bad idea.
(40:26):
So how are you going to sustainand maintain that's you know.
If you want to just some peoplewant to jump in the business,
make some money and get back outin a couple years.
More power to them.
But through and go, grow abusiness and you have
opportunity to, to, to know thatyou can grow it with more
people then go find those peopleto merge and grow with, or sell
(40:48):
or or take, take a smallerstake in it, to get a.
Get that, that grape or thatwatermelon.
So that's kind of my big, bigadvice.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
It's good stuff.
Growing a business, it's likeclimbing Everest.
Nobody climbs Everest alone.
It's great advice, well, austin, from Royal Roofing man.
Thanks a lot for joining us.
Hey, thank you, I appreciateyou having me on.
all right, welcome to the limitless roofing show,
where we give you a seat at thetable as we talk to roofing
owners so that you can get theinsights, tips, tools, tactics
to take your company to the nextlevel.
And today I've got a personalfriend, austin watterson, on the
show and he's the owner ofRoyal Roofing.
So, austin, thanks for joiningme.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hey, thank you for having me on when you guys
reached out.
I'm glad you guys invited me on.
I'm glad to help and share someof what knowledge I do have to
help others as well.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That's what it's all about.
I mean, we were talking alittle bit before we went live,
(01:04):
and if you're a roofing aboutyour background, how did you get
into roofing?
How long have you been withRoyal Stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay, so how I got into roofing?
I was in the restaurantbusiness before this.
I actually was a partner inSonic Dragons at 19 years old.
They made me a partner in alocation and then got multiple
locations and I was about 30years old and I sold out my
(01:33):
partnership there and startedresearching industries and what
I wanted to do next anddefinitely wanted to stay in
business.
I was a big operations guywithin Sonic and so that's why I
don't handle a lot ofoperations.
And so I looked at roofing andactually went to work for a
(01:55):
company and the first thing theygave me was a blue post-it note
with an address on it told meto go start knocking, knocking
doors.
And I sat in that Ford truck ofmine and what the hell do I do
to knock a door and I'm supposedto look at their roof.
Well, the first door I knockedon, the lady told me yes, so I
(02:19):
didn't know what to do as a10-12 pitch roof and I waited
three hours for a manger to comeover and show me what to do.
So that's that was my now.
They're now that company, thebig private equity company, so
in Minnesota.
So, uh, they obviously did donesomething right to get where
they're at now.
But, uh, I shortly left thatcompany and and figured out
(02:44):
pretty quickly that business isbusiness whether you're flipping
hamburgers or selling roofing,business is business and numbers
is numbers.
So I branched out on my ownwith a friend of mine and I, and
we'd done this together for afew years and we split up in
2014.
I started oil and I got marriedin 2013, had twin girls and uh
(03:10):
gained a stepson and we uh shewas an, she was an insurance
agent and then she left theagency in 2000 into 2016 and
been working within the companyas well for many years.
So that's how we got startedand and and you know I was I was
(03:32):
good with working for someone,but I realized quickly there was
a need to to build all my, allmy.
I didn't knock doors, neverhave knocked doors.
Really I've.
I've knocked less than probably500 doors in my lifetime and
it's all relationship driven andI've built this company on
relationships and so my doorknocking was getting on my phone
(03:54):
and then, when social mediablew up, social media was good
for me, but we've grown andgrown in several years and you
know, I made a joke the otherday when people ask about
biggest contracts and I'm like,well, the biggest job ever done
is not my biggest contract.
(04:14):
My biggest contract is abouthalf a million dollars.
My biggest job ever done wasabout just under 2 million and I
never signed a contract withthe people, I just done the job.
So insurance paid out 600,000.
I handled everything, got itall taken care of and turned
into almost 2 million.
I never even signed a contractwith them.
(04:34):
So I've always done business onhandshakes and all that and
we've had to evolve over time.
So that's the businessevolution is real.
We've had to evolve over time.
So the business evolution isreal.
And you have to do things, signcontracts to protect all
parties involved, and the daysof working off of Excel
(04:57):
spreadsheets and Big Chieftablets are over and there's
still people that try to do that.
But you limit yourself withwith where you're at and you
have to have systems andprocesses in place for everyone
and draw a hard line on stuffand and you got to be able to,
you know, protect the brand andthat's that's been our biggest
(05:18):
thing is protecting our brand no, that's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
So I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I didn't realize you were an operations guy at sonic
yep, you got to figure out howto to stop roadblocks in any
part of the business and improvesystems and and, yep, that was
the sonic sonic.
I actually my.
I was the what, 17 years oldand I actually got third place
(05:44):
in the Sonic Games in 1998 or1997 in Las Vegas.
I enjoy that.
There's people that are stillnear and dear to me.
They gave me an opportunity.
I've had a job since I wasseven years old.
My family raced horses.
I lived on the racetrack andgrew up there and I had a job.
(06:08):
I learned quickly at a youngage that my parents didn't pay
money, so if I worked for them Ididn't make anything.
So I had to go work for othersto make money.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So so let's talk about, let's talk about royal a
little bit more.
You started the business in2013.
It's 2025 now, at the time ofrecording this.
I know you guys have come along way and, since you're a
process-driven guy, I'm sureyou've got some solid operations
.
Where are you guys hoping toland revenue-wise within the
(06:40):
next year and within the nextthree years?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I know you've got some targets in the future
within the next year and withinthe next three years.
I know you've got some targetsin the future Yep, so we're
we're, you know, finalizing amerger, trying to spread out
across Missouri Kansas a littlebit more.
But our goal is to add a mergerto buy a couple more companies
and, you know, possibly acquireand, and we got we have.
There's some really, reallygood sales guys out there that
(07:03):
have, you know, they've bouncedaround but they don't have an
end goal.
And there's been some guys thatyou know started their own
companies.
It's had good success, but theywant the.
The grind of trying to do it allyourself is hard.
It's real hard and trying okay.
Well, now I'm.
I'm trying to be an operator.
I got to go be a salesman.
I got to be operator.
(07:28):
I got to go be a salesman.
I got to help deal with thisproblem and trying to run
production and trying to find afive-tool player that can go run
their jobs.
You can't ask all your salesmento run their jobs.
So that's been the thing for us.
We've been able to createsystems and processes.
And how do you create betterquality?
Because you have to protect thebrand.
(07:48):
If you don't protect the brand,you'll end up with three-star
google reviews consistently yeah, 100.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
So are you guys?
Are you hoping to grow thisthing to be like a massive 100
million dollar year company, orare you hoping to camp out
around 20 or 30 one day?
What are you looking at?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Our goals on that is, yeah, as we're trying to merge
and acquire, our goal is to getto $100 million and I think
that's going to take probablythree years to do it.
But you know it takes a littlebit of ramping up, but we've got
some things in place.
Now we're going to get veryaggressive, from commission
structures to allowing otherpeople to make money too.
(08:34):
It's not all about making moneyfor Royal, not making money for
Abernathy Roofing.
It's a matter of making moneyfor allowing others to make
great income too and be part ofthe goal of the future.
Private equity is coming hot andheavy in the industry.
I mean, outside of the emailsand text messages and phone
calls you get, you know, 27times a week.
(08:56):
I know a lot of guys in thebusiness and talk to several
people we know and respect andyou know, at some point you know
you, you jump in.
Why did you start your company?
Well, I was going to pass on.
I want to build a roofingbusiness to pass on to my family
.
Some people want to do that.
But you look at the boomers outthere that their businesses,
(09:17):
their, their businesses, aregiven away because their kids
and grandkids don't want theirbusiness.
Kids and grandkids don't wanttheir business.
So I can create.
I can create stuff to pass onmy kids or I can create some
generational wealth for for usand for for, hopefully,
additional people within ourcompany.
(09:37):
When you know whether wepartner with private equity or
we sell to private equity, youknow I mean that's the stuff we
got to look at and that's, youknow that's going to be.
You know three to five yearsdown the road when we get into
more of that.
But you know the goal is numberone.
You have to take care of yourcustomers and you have to take
care of your team.
But yeah, that's our goal is toget to get to the a hundred
(10:00):
million.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
That's great and do do your.
I know you mentioned you don'tknock doors really because
you're you're just good atbuilding relationships and
strategic alliances and stufflike that.
But what about your sales guys?
Do they knock doors or are they?
Is their whole strategy to gobuild relationships as well?
So sometimes the bestquarterbacks- are not the best
coaches.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
sometimes the best quarterbacks are not the best
coaches.
Sometimes the best coaches werenever a good quarterback, and
so that's a, that's a thing thatit comes easy to you building
relationships.
Not everybody can go out andbuild a good relationship and
there's killer door knockersthat will destroy me every day
of the week if we're outknocking doors.
(10:41):
I know that and so I got I usemy strength and that's and
that's out talking people andbuilding relationships.
So we have a sales guy thatstarted last Monday.
He's already filed 10 claimsand legit damage on us.
He got in some areas and we'vepointed him there.
He's outdoing everyone elsealready and so, yeah, our sales
(11:05):
guy has guys knock doors.
But we also have a lot, of, alot of high quality leads that
come in.
You know I have a lot ofrealtors, a lot of insurance
agents that send us work.
Uh, we do.
We spend quite a bit ofmarketing too from you know
google, you know google lsa, uh,gmb, you got your facebook ads
all.
So we get a lot off of thatstuff as well, and we have a lot
(11:27):
of previous customers and justa lot of referrals from our
existing customers.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's good stuff.
So you guys are rocking androlling.
You're growing.
You're growing your teamworking on a merger.
You want to expand to becomeone of the biggest companies and
you've been in this for over 10years.
What's one of the biggestchallenges you've faced?
Because guys listening to thismay think, man, that's great,
like I don't know how they'redoing it.
(11:55):
I'm freaking, you know,climbing Mount Everest over here
and feel like I'm not makingany headway.
What's one of the biggestchallenges you faced?
And let's kind of work through.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And so I had a previous business partner and
that didn't work out so well andI went into the mindset I'm
never going to have anotherbusiness partner again.
And I actually had aconversation one day and you
know I'm 44 years old now and Ihad a guy tell me this, probably
(12:35):
seven, about, probably six,seven years ago.
He's like never do business,never going to a partnership
with someone that's out to provethemselves.
You need to go and be, andthat's usually someone, a
younger person, because youthere's never.
It's hard to compromise whenyou're, when you go, he goes.
(12:56):
Age is just a number.
But somebody that's moreseasoned in business, in their
40s and 50s and 60s, they'vebeen there, done that and
they're going to be pushing tothe same goal and understand
that it there's alwayscompromises, just just like a
marriage, just like anythingelse.
And so, to be honest with you,I was just going to be my wife
(13:20):
and I.
We're going to run the businessall that Well.
After a series of heart attackstwo years ago, that changed my
mindset and so, to get a littlepersonal on that, I had to sit
there in my in the hospital roombefore my quadruple bypass and
(13:41):
tell my wife how, what needed tobe done, business wise and
family wise if I didn't make itthrough my surgery.
And I told her there's a lot ofpeople she can lean on, but
when it came to the roofingbusiness, to our company, only
let one person help make anydecisions.
You take input from several ofthese people, but only let one
(14:03):
person be part of the decisionmaking and that's John Abernathy
.
And that's where we went withit and and you know that was our
conversation and you know toldher, you know I, just like
everybody else, I didn't have aestate planning and a lot of
(14:24):
that stuff in place.
And and so that's where, afterI had got got out of surgery and
went back to work, you know, afew weeks later, and get get
going again, it, it.
It changed my mindset of how Iwas going to set my family up
and it was irresponsibleirresponsible of me to think I
(14:46):
was going to dump this companyon my wife to run it and be more
than a mom and pop.
And we had a great team ofpeople and we still do and the
care and the love and thecompassion from that team that
helped me recover.
But at the same time, what arewe doing with the company.
(15:09):
I owe it to those people aswell.
I mean our team.
I owe it to them to make suretheir lives are not ruined.
We have Brooke tomorrow.
She celebrates her whatseven-year anniversary with us.
So you have people that youwant to make sure they're taken
care of along the way too.
And so the struggle withbusiness is what's your end goal
(15:32):
with business?
Is what your end goal?
If you don't have an end goal,it gets muddy for you and trying
to run a business by yourselflike, oh, I can't afford to make
that investment.
Well, how many people don'thave somebody answering their
phones 24-7?
I mean, you got to make thoseinvestments to do that, the
speed to lead and take care ofpeople.
(15:52):
And you know you got it.
Is that a good investment, nota bad, or good or bad investment
?
I spent three weeks at college,but I sure as hell have paid for
a lot of college, a lot oflearning lessons over the years,
and I've dumped.
You know, I've dumped 30, 50,75,000 and stuff that didn't
work out.
I've dumped 150,000 and stuffthat didn't work out.
(16:14):
I've dumped $150,000 in stuffthat didn't work out.
So those learning curves I liketo have all that money back,
but I wouldn't have made moremoney because I learned from
that mistake, if you don't learnfrom those things.
But to answer that question, thebiggest thing is trying to this
day and age, a one-man show ishard.
And I say you're trying to runyour company.
You have a few sales guyswithout putting in you know, 70,
(16:39):
80, 90 hours a week, it's hardto keep that company profitable.
Keep your team going, supportyour sales guys and then you're
allowing them to be the fivetool person they are.
But if they're trying to selland run their jobs, something's
going to suffer.
So you got to have guys thatcan run production and let your
sales guys go sell and let themdo what they're good at.
(17:00):
If you're good in production,not good at sales, and get in
production, not get.
Don't get in sales.
But if I said for after surgeryis, how do I change the
trajectory of this company?
Because if I end up with havinganother heart attack a year
from now and dying, what is thetrajectory?
(17:22):
I have to fix that and don't go.
So I took a step back and howwould I start a new company
again If I start at score zero?
I'm not going to do it alone.
I want to do it in multiplepeople.
It's called snowball effect andit's true.
You can go okay, I want ahundred percent of the profit,
(17:45):
or do I want 50% of the profit?
Do I want 25% of the profit?
Because 25% of the profit couldbe the same money I'm making
with less headaches and have ateam and growth and
sustainability is a huge wordfor me, and COVID was a real
reason that we business evolvedtremendously and you have to
(18:10):
evolve with it.
If you're trying to plan forthis quarter or right now, for
what you think is going tohappen this year, private equity
is already two years ahead ofus.
They're already planning twoand three years out.
What are they going to do?
They're coming to these marketsand, yeah, we have great
branding.
We have billboards everywhere.
We do a lot of digitalmarketing.
I've built this on relationshipsand we started spending more
(18:33):
money marketing and all that,but it's you got to have the
right people.
You have to have all that.
So my number one thing, thoughrepeat again, is there's a power
in numbers.
There's a power to have notjust a sales team.
That's good, and I'm talkingbusiness partners with the same
like-minded values, interests totake and traject forward,
(18:55):
because there's a lot of guysthat are really good.
That's been in this businessfor a long time and there's
still and there's nothing wrong.
I got, I got a really goodfriend that he does six, 700,000
a year in sales and he enjoyswhat he does.
He, he has one guy that helpshim with stuff and he goes and
does it and that's what he'shappy with.
(19:15):
I get that, I respect that.
But for me that stops if I'mnot here tomorrow, if I kill
over again.
That's why I'm leaving myfamily to set my family up to
deal with.
So that's not fair to them.
And I say family, that's familyup to deal with.
(19:37):
So that's not fair to them.
And not and I say family,that's not my wife and kids,
that's my wife and kids and andthe other people within the
company is, yeah, they can goget a job somewhere else
tomorrow, but that's not whatwe're after.
I mean we, we want more forthem.
So for us, that's what we'rewe're trying to do.
So for us, that's what we'rewe're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Man.
So what was it like?
Two things I want to get into.
One is the heart attack andthen the other thing of
partnership.
Cause I agree with you, I youknow, Miller Whedon and I are
business partners in thelimitless roofing GPO, and I
think I would have given up if Ihadn't had a partner to bounce
ideas off of, to pray with, tothink things through with.
It is so much weight on yourshoulders to grow a business all
(20:17):
by yourself and you can't comehome and bring it to your wife
every night either.
I mean, she needs a break fromthat stress too, and so if you
don't have anybody, it's prettyisolating.
So I'm so aligned with you onthat.
But let's get back into theheart attack thing, man, because
I'm 45.
I've thought about this too.
My grandfather had his firstheart attack at 35 years old.
He ended up having to get aquadruple bypass and he lived to
(20:41):
be 84, I believe, or 83.
But, um, what was that like man?
How did you?
What was that whole experiencelike of having a heart attack?
Did you start feeling sickleading up to that?
Or were there any warning signs?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Well, I do share this with as many people as I can,
because I had a series of heartattacks.
It started at the end ofJanuary and went to May and I
didn't know I was having heartattacks and I had a ton of them
and what was going on was Ithought I had pains, I was
(21:19):
having back pain, I was havingneck pain, where it's coming up
here and like a pinched nerve.
Any physical activity I mean Icould, I mean I could walk, you
know 50 yards, and all of asudden I feel this pinched nerve
in my back and I'd sit there,stretch it out and I mean it, it
take.
And one of the signs of of aheart attack is shortness of
(21:43):
breath.
I never had shortness of breath.
It took my breath away.
Cause it.
You know, you get kidney punchand you just kind of clench your
breath or get hit in the ribs.
You kind of clench your breath.
That's what it did to me.
Never put two and two together.
But I went to a chiropractor,all that.
It slowly got worse and worse.
I went to my primary care andshe started giving me nerve
(22:05):
pills and pain patches and allthat.
She never once I told her everysymptom I had, but yeah, it was
all back pain.
So I started getting these likeI thought they were muscle
spasms.
Well, between your shoulderblade and your spine is your
thoracic spine.
(22:25):
Well, your thoracic.
I figured out when I wassitting in the hospital and the
doctors walk in and it saysUniversity of Kansas
Cardiothoracic.
Well, cardiothoracic.
I'm a dumbass.
My thoracic that wasn't becausemy primary care actually sent
(22:48):
me to physical therapy for backpain, so she failed me big time.
And so my I uh actually was inOklahoma city mother's day
weekend, went down thereactually by myself to see my
horses, and I had Thursday nightmy son graduated.
I had a massive heart attackthat night.
Uh, friday I had a.
(23:09):
Stopped at Brahms in Tulsa andgrabbed some ice cream and a
sandwich and had a massive heartattack getting back in my truck
that that night, in thehospital or in the hospital in
the hotel, I had another.
I had to go sleep in my trucksitting up and dumb as me, but I
never once zero chest pain allin my back.
And so I ended up with two moremajor ones that weekend, three
(23:34):
more major ones that weekend,and my wife I did.
I told my wife I go.
I can see why people commitsuicide over pain.
I'm not committing suicide, butit makes more sense because I
can handle a lot of pain but wecan't get answers.
My primary care kept on kickingme back, kicking me back.
Anyway, she's like I got you anew doctor, you go.
(23:55):
In Tuesday went in that morning,told the lady little five foot
two, 80 pound redheaded doctor.
I told her my symptoms and shegoes it's your heart, I go, it's
not my heart.
And she goes it is your heart,I go.
No, it's not my heart.
She goes.
Why do you say that I go?
If it was my heart, I'd be deadby now.
And this has been going onsince January.
(24:17):
And she goes let me do an EKGand then we'll go from there.
And she did an EKG and she goesyou need to have surgery today.
So, we're going to try to.
I got you, we're going to sendyou over to a different hospital
and we're going to try to getsome stents put in.
And then I went and got stentsput in.
(24:41):
Well, I went to go get stentsput in and as soon as they went
in to start, they realized theycouldn't.
I had four blockages One was95% and the other three was over
85.
Transferred me to KU Med andthey give me Plavix.
(25:01):
I'd wait five days for surgery.
So I was having small heartattacks while I was in the
hospital and one of the doctorswalked in and and he's like your
EKG is crazy.
I go, what do you mean?
He goes, you've had a lot ofheart attacks or you've had a
lot of STEMIs.
I'm like what's a STEMI?
He goes.
He goes, don't Google it, butit's a massive heart.
(25:22):
It's your widow maker heartattack.
I'm like, oh, okay, he goes.
Yeah, you had a bunch of those,you've had a bunch of these.
I'm like, okay, well, good toknow, but I'm lucky I'm still
here.
So I tell that story not to bedramatic or any sympathy.
I don't.
I'm not asking for sympathy.
I'm doing it to save otherpeople though, because I was a
complete idiot and not go getother opinions.
(25:46):
I mean when that doctor coulddiagnose me that quick.
My wife told me the same thing.
I told her she was nuts becauseI trusted our primary care.
I was going to and all I everknew heart attacks.
Your heart's right here.
No, your heart's connected toyour thoracic spine.
That's a.
That was a muscle spasm.
Use your heart's right here.
No, your heart's connected toyour thoracic spine.
That's a.
That was a muscle spasm.
Use your heart having a spasm.
So, talking to doctors, 60percent of heart attacks are in
(26:11):
your back no, they're not inyour chest.
Yes, 60, don't matter.
You or miller could be.
You guys are both good, healthydudes and cholesterol is a big
part of your heart health andyou can have high cholesterol
and look healthy like you lookright now, and it's a lot to do
(26:33):
with your cholesterol.
But what they told me wasthere's a reason why a lot of
guys in their 40s and 50s havemassive heart attacks and die
because it's never chest pain.
They think there's a musclespasm in their back, there's
back pain.
They don't doesn't correlate intheir head to go to the
(26:53):
hospital and I can tell you amassive heart attack.
You are in full sweat modewithin about a minute and you
can't hardly breathe.
You don't want to breathe.
It takes your breath becauseyou're trying to hold your
breath to make the pain not beas painful as it is.
(27:16):
So I never thought it takesyour breath away or shortness of
breath.
No, it takes your breath away,and so I try to explain that to
people.
There's a difference and Iguess if you're a technical
person, then it's shortness ofbreath and taking your breath
away is two different things.
But I tell everybody that story.
(27:37):
What my doctor told me too is60% is in your back.
That story.
What my doctor told me too, is60% in your back.
People die from massive heartattacks all the time in their
40s and 50s because they'd neverrealized the heart attack.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So what happens when you're having the you said
massive heart attack a few times?
To me that's like your cheststarts killing you and you keel
over.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
But you're saying, you're sitting there in your
truck, you start having a lot ofback pain in your upper back.
That's what it originallystarted, as it felt like I had a
pinched nerve at the top of myspine, right there at the base
of my neck.
That's where it started at, andthen it got to right between my
shoulder blade and my spine.
It got, it got, you, could, youcould.
(28:27):
It felt like a, a muscle spasm,and it got to where you feel
like I realized that there's a,uh, there's a pressure point
right there that if you press onthe pressure point long enough,
it helps alleviate some of thatpain.
I figured that out because I'dhave my wife and kid, my
daughters, do that for me whenit got that bad.
Could you imagine if I wouldhave died right there in front
of my one of my daughters at thetime of nine years old, sitting
(28:48):
there pushing on dad's back andI I kill over and I think he, I
think I got saved to to for mykids, not for myself but for my
kids, because that would haverun their lives and and so
that's yeah, no, none in thechest is on the back.
(29:08):
So it started going down myspine, my thoracic spine further
the worse they got, and it wasjust, I mean, to this day you
feel stuff and you still like,is that a heart attack coming on
or is that?
But never gets it.
Never.
I never had those muscle spasmsAnytime you get a pain in your
back, but it was.
It would come.
(29:29):
I mean it was like a bad musclespasm and then just go away and
I was fine.
I mean, the one couple of thosein Oklahoma city lasted an hour
and a half to two hours.
Oh yeah, yeah, I was sitting inMidwest City at a 7-Eleven for
(29:50):
an hour and a half and it was 95degrees out and I was wringing
wet and I kind of thought I wasjust getting to be a bit of a
sissy, because I've always beenable to handle pain, but that
was one of the pain most painfulthings I ever had in my life.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
So it's extreme pain, shortness of breath, or you're
like kind of trying not tobreathe to lessen the pain, and
then it just goes away within anhour, hour and a half.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, and some of them last, some of them were
five or 10 minutes and you werefine.
Most majority of them was wasyou know, under 10 to 15 minutes
, and you go away and go back,go back to your day.
I mean, I'd have to sit down ina chair and once it got out,
once it it like it just wentaway.
That's what's weird and I nevercrazy.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
How high was your, how high was your cholesterol
you know what I don't remember?
There's probably up like 250,260, something pretty high yeah,
more than likely.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes, it's probably crazy, it's, it's.
I'm not too bad at my.
My cholesterol now is a littlebit high, but not too bad.
So you know I'm on cholesterolmedicine but oh gotcha, you know
, you know part of that.
I mean, yeah, it was it wascrazy and I and I share that
story.
Like I said, I don't need thesympathy.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
No.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You know, my sympathy needs to be with my kids and my
wife, but I need, I want toencourage others to pay
attention to those symptoms.
So and I've seriously, the moreI've talked about it, the more
people you realize.
The more I've talked about, themore people you realize.
People's like man.
I wish I would have known that,because I was around somebody
(31:29):
that had a massive heart attackand died, didn't know it was a
massive heart attack and theywere just having pains.
So you know CPR can help savesomebody.
So most of the people in ourcompany is certified in CPR now.
So doing those things goes along ways.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I mean it's a big deal, man.
Most guys, guys in particularare really not dialed into their
health and it's something thatmiller and I my business partner
and I are really passionateabout.
And I mean we've had both of ushave had extensive lab work
done.
We've worked with differentnaturopath doctors, health
clinics, and you know it's just,you know you only get one
(32:09):
chance.
It's not like you get to hitthe rewind button any of this.
If you haven't seen a doctor inthe last few years, go get
checked out, get some extensivelab work done, find out what
your numbers are.
You know if there's anythingpreventative you need to do.
(32:30):
I gave a talk on this issueabout six months ago at one of
Randy Brothers events and I gavea talk on faith, family,
fitness and finances like thefour major areas of your life,
and the fitness one.
I broke down my take on fitnessand supplements and health and
all this stuff and startedgetting into what I have for
(32:51):
breakfast and you know, eggswith olive oil and this and that
and the other and um, and Ijust kind of challenged the
crowd.
Like man, if you're eating outevery day and you're busy, I get
it, but like you're goingthrough McDonald's for the third
time that week.
That stuff's killing you, man.
You know we weren't.
God didn't create us to liveoff this fried, processed stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
No.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So the more natural you get, the more whole foods,
things that are not processed atall.
I mean, today for lunch I hadBrussels sprouts.
Brussels sprouts and, granted,they were really good.
I think they're probablycovered in maple syrup and sweet
potatoes and chicken.
I mean it was a very healthy,very tasty meal, but nothing was
(33:34):
processed.
So anyway, I appreciate yousharing that story.
What did that do to you fromjust a life perspective?
You're a business owner, you'rea man of faith, you've got a
family, you've got people thatdepend on you.
How did that change the way youlook at your day-to-day life?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I still get pretty wrapped up in our business and
business goals.
My habit's gotten a lot better.
I don't exercise near as muchas I should.
I mean most of my stuff'swalking.
I don't go to the gym oranything like I probably should.
Uh, I had chipotle for lunchjust before we got on the on the
(34:14):
call here so, but I only ateabout five bites that's.
I'm still getting it, but I don.
But I don't consume what I usedto for sure.
Man, I'm about 140 pounds downfrom my highest in 2019.
No kidding, yeah, I was aboutfour bills at one point.
(34:37):
A lot of that I'll blame myself,self-induced.
I had a bad family history ofheart issues and health issues,
but you know I have nobody toblame but myself on all that
either.
So it's easy to try to blame iton somebody else.
But when you're laying thereand you just got spatchcocked in
(34:58):
the hospital, that's what Icall it.
You know how you spatchcockedin the hospital, that's what I
call it.
You know how you spatchcock achicken.
I was just that's what it feltlike when they had me rip my
breastbone ripped open and andsurgery.
So it was.
It wasn't the best thing in theworld, so don't want to go
through it again, but I'd hateto see other people go through
it yeah, no, it's good stuff,but yeah, it's, it's for the
(35:19):
people around us.
So, though and direction, it wasnice because the company ran
really well without me andwithout my wife and if other
business owners.
If it would have been a yearbefore that, royal may not be in
business today, but I had agood team and good things in
(35:41):
place and was able to take careof a lot of and I say not in
business, we wouldn't be wherewe're at.
So we would have survived fine,but it would have been a
different trajectory.
But most guys in business, ifthey were to take a month off
work, what would their companylook like?
(36:02):
That's a big question.
What?
What did your company look likeif you took a month off work
and it maintained sustained ordrop?
I mean you.
You know that you have bigeffect in your business day in
and day out.
So everything should take astep back if you're not in the
day-to-day.
(36:22):
But the goal is to find thepeople and replace you with
somebody better than you andI've.
I am currently putting thoseteams together and as we're
opening additional offices,we've got guys with taking
profit shares, you know, takinga big profit share.
All those offices we're goingto open and and and a lot, of, a
lot of opportunity for growthand have some end game for guys.
(36:45):
It's never, never realized thatthe opportunity's out there for
them, so used to like well, Igotta eat what I kill and what's
my?
What's this look like when Ican't climb on roofs anymore?
What, uh, what, what's?
Guys love the roofing businessand they bounce around to a
couple different companies andthey've never you know whether
(37:07):
they had the money.
They didn't have the theydidn't want to go start their
own company, or somebody thatstarted their own company is
just overwhelming.
There's.
There's people I know that,just like me, is man.
When you're trying to run acompany, I mean, yeah, you can
go make really good money.
When you're trying to run acompany, I mean, yeah, you can
go make really good money, butyou're stuck doing it all and
you're working until one, two,three o'clock in the morning
(37:28):
trying to get paperwork done.
Then you're back up gotta gomeet the crew on a, get a build
started and there's not enoughhours in the day.
And so, well, how am I supposedto give up?
If I partner with someone, I'mgoing to give up half my income.
Well, that's so short-sighted.
Now, if I'm a partner, someoneI'm going to make still make the
same income, but lessresponsibilities.
(37:50):
We're going to grow, and sothat's where we're at right now
is where we're going to go growat a rapid level.
I held back our.
I held back our growth, so nowI want to change that.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, I'm with you on that, because we talked about
it before and we get approachedby investors and buyers and
stuff like that for our businessas well, and the conversation
is always OK well, how can wemaximize value together?
What do you want?
What's the valuation, what arethe numbers look like and all
this stuff.
But it comes back to one simpleconcept and that it for me
(38:24):
personally.
I'd rather have a part of awatermelon than an entire grape.
I know by myself if it, if it'sall mine, all the money's
coming to me.
Dylan McCabe can make some sortof impact, but if I align with
the right people and build adream team of leaders and
partners, I may have a piece ofthat watermelon, but that may be
(38:46):
20 times the size of the amountthat I would have had if I
would have stuck with the grapewhat I call the grape mentality.
So I think it's just reallypowerful when you get other
people leading the charge likethat with you.
I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, and so do you want to eat the whole watermelon
in one bite, or you want to eatthe grape in one bite?
Go eat your grape, because it'sa lot easier to maintain to eat
one bite at a time.
And if you try to, that's justlike business.
If you go and that grape, youcan go and take one bite at a
time.
That watermelon, it takes lotsof bites to get through it all.
(39:23):
So look at your business thatway too.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yeah, that's so true.
Well, man, we're coming up onthe end of our time.
Do you have any?
If there was one thing youcould say to other roofing
owners listening to this, whatwould that be?
What would be a parting pieceof advice?
What?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
would that be?
What would be a parting pieceof advice?
You know, probably one bigthing is sustainability.
How are you going to sustain?
What's your end goal?
Is you got to figure that out?
And if it's not, if that's whatyour vision is, you need to get
with the right people.
Surround yourself withlike-minded people,
accountability partners or otherpeople in the business.
(40:04):
You can, you can, you know,talk to someone that can mentor
you and and there's, there'snobody better than someone else
that's been there, done that.
Don't go hire a business coachthat does not know this business
in and out.
They haven't had the experienceexperience.
Don't go hire someone from adifferent industry to be a
business coach.
Don't do that.
It's a bad idea.
(40:26):
So how are you going to sustainand maintain that's you know.
If you want to just some peoplewant to jump in the business,
make some money and get back outin a couple years.
More power to them.
But through and go, grow abusiness and you have
opportunity to, to, to know thatyou can grow it with more
people then go find those peopleto merge and grow with, or sell
(40:48):
or or take, take a smallerstake in it, to get a.
Get that, that grape or thatwatermelon.
So that's kind of my big, bigadvice.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
It's good stuff.
Growing a business, it's likeclimbing Everest.
Nobody climbs Everest alone.
It's great advice, well, austin, from Royal Roofing man.
Thanks a lot for joining us.
Hey, thank you, I appreciateyou having me on.
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