March 3, 2025 • 46 mins
Are you curious about what it takes to thrive as a roofing contractor? In this episode, Luis Venegas, founder of Texas Stag Roofing, shares his incredible journey from having no background in roofing to establishing a successful company focused primarily on retail sales—even amidst the challenging storm market in Texas!
Luis reveals the importance of education in sales, emphasizing a consultative approach that empowers homeowners to understand the value behind their choices. He dives into the innovative strategies Texas Stag employs, including an in-house call center, to generate leads efficiently. This unique method not only yields numerous appointments but allows the company to retain control over their sales process.
Throughout the conversation, we tackle significant themes such as adapting to market shifts, the pros and cons of insurance versus retail roofing, and the importance of cultivating a knowledgeable team through the use of virtual assistants.
Join us for an insightful discussion that underscores how a shift in perspective and strategy can revolutionize a roofing business. After listening, we encourage you to think critically about your own approach—what unique value can you provide to your customers? Don't forget to subscribe and share your thoughts!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
all right, we have got luis venegas on the show
today from texas stag roofing.
Luis, thanks for joining theshow, man thank you for having
me yeah, and so for those of youlistening, luis is, he's a
member of the limitless roofinggroup.
He's also a member of ourmastermind called Forged.
He's also doing some reallyinteresting things that a lot of
(00:28):
roofers are not doingexceptionally well.
He has a very unique approachto retail sales, even though
he's in the Texas market.
He also has some things he'sdoing with a call center that
are unusual in a really good way, and so it's just been really
cool to watch you grow yourcompany, and so we'll get into
some of that stuff.
But before we do that, justgive people a little bit of
(00:50):
background, like who are you andhow did you get into roofing?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, I've been in roofing for about five years
Actually, this month is ouranniversary and I got into it
because of a friend of mine, soI had zero roofing experience.
When I started the company, Ihad a friend that had a roofing
(01:16):
experience installing, you know,doing the labor part of it.
And I was helping a painter atthe time, a custom painter and
we would just paint likemansions, right, like million
dollar homes.
And my friend was asking me whyare you doing that for somebody
else?
Why don't you do it foryourself?
You know you get in front ofcustom builders, you build a
(01:37):
relationship, you get jobs fromthem.
Why don't you do it foryourself?
And I'm like I don't know howto paint, you know I can't do
that kind of work.
And he's like well, no, I knowroofing, so we can get a roofing
company started and then justsee how it goes.
It didn't take much, you know.
I want to say maybe like amonth after that we were already
(01:59):
getting everything going and,uh, well, slowly, you know, I
just started learning whateverything was.
I didn't know, like the partsof the roof, I didn't know
anything whatsoever.
And he has another business.
So I want to say maybe like ayear in, he had to step away to
focus more on that otherbusiness, and so I really,
(02:20):
really had to had to learneverything.
That's how it all got started.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
That's a trial by fire for sure.
Yes, it was.
But you had started your owncompany at that point, or were
you guys in some sort of apartnership, or how did that
work?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, he's still my partner.
Yeah, he's still involved.
Well, he doesn't live here inHouston, but he's still, yeah,
he's still involved.
He's uh, well, he doesn't livehere in houston but, uh, he's
still involved with with thebusiness, maybe not day-to-day,
but he comes by maybe, uh, everymonth, every other month, you
know something like that um, oncalls, you know he still helps
(03:01):
with the team and everything, sohe's still involved nice.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So he kind of helped you get going.
But but then you really becamethe owner-operator.
You put some serious energy andhorsepower behind growing sales
, making things happen.
That's great.
So tell us a little bit aboutTexas Stag.
What kind of roofing company isit?
Are you guys?
Residential, commercial?
A little bit of both.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Mostly residential.
I can probably count with myfingers how many commercial jobs
we've done.
It hasn't really been a focus.
Every residential I meancommercial job that we've done,
it pretty much landed on our lap.
You know we haven't reallypursued commercial, but this
year that's changing.
That's one of the goals forthis year to this year to tap
(03:45):
into commercial a little bitmore.
We, for the first three years,we were mostly retail.
I want to say 95% of our volumewas retail, until I didn't
understand anything aboutinsurance.
I didn't know how to work, Ididn't know how to communicate
(04:07):
with adjusters, any of that.
But I realized I was leaving alot of money on the table.
So I was like you know what?
It's time to learn, it's timeto adapt.
So, yeah, we started doinginsurance in 2000.
At the end of 2023, 2024, wewent pretty heavy in insurance.
So now and I don't like it tobe honest I freaking hate
(04:33):
insurance.
Work man, it's a totalnightmare.
So this year I want to havelike a 50-50 split.
I don't want to rely oninsurance.
If it was up to me, I wouldjust do 100 retail, but I don't
want to, you know, just sohere's.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Here's what makes you unusual in a really good way
compared to you know we've gotabout 330 companies in our, in
our buying group and our gpoyou're one of the only guys I
know that's in a storm would beconsidered a storm market in
texas that is so focused onretail and you just started
doing storm restoration work.
(05:16):
So how did you get started intoretail?
And then you know why did youstick with that?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
well, um, the reason why we do things very outside
the box or the unusual way isbecause I didn't really have a
mentor, you know, to guide methrough.
This is how you do roofing,right.
So I I have experience in sales.
I've been selling for for along time right, have experience
(05:48):
in sales, I've been selling fora long time, right.
And so when I hear we doroofing, now like this is what
we're into, what do I do?
Well, I got to go sell a roof,right.
So I will talk to people likehey, it looks like you need a
roof, I can finance it, let's doit.
You know, like that's prettymuch how you get started.
I didn't understand theinsurance world, right, and the
(06:08):
storm chasing and none of that.
And just, I looked into it alittle bit and it seems so
complicated and I didn't want towait to learn at all.
But I was like you know what,let me just go this route where
people pay cash, they financewhatever.
And if it was insurance, Iwould just go meet with the fuel
(06:31):
adjuster and if it getsapproved, great.
And if it doesn't, it doesn'tright.
Then I finance it, and if itgets approved, I just wait to
collect the check.
I wouldn't communicate with thecarrier at all.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Interesting.
So with retail, though, yoursales process is a lot different
.
So tell us about that.
Like what is your retail salesprocess?
What's your typical close rate?
Not for you personally, but foryour typical sales guy, because
your close rate is going to beway higher, but what does it
look like?
What's the sales process looklike?
(07:07):
What close rate are you goingfor Stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, we use SumoQuote for our presentations
and I made the SumoQuote in away that the sales rep just has
to follow page after page.
They don't have to memorize theprocess.
They pretty much have areminder every step of the way
on what to say, what to touch on, what to explain.
(07:34):
So we go a lot into education.
We have a more educationalapproach.
It's not like oh yeah, this isthe shingle and this is the
prize.
What do you want to do?
No, it's not like that.
So we explain what the tarifflooks like.
(07:55):
We explain why removing theother label is important, why
inspecting the decking isimportant, why the different
shingles are important, whatimpact resistance means, what
the hip and ridge, why thestarter is important, what the
drippage does.
We go into a lot of detailbecause nobody else is doing
(08:17):
that.
That's how we build value right.
So we still on retail.
We still hit the margins thatwe hit on insurance.
So we don't sacrifice moneywhen we go retail, which is
something that I hear a lot withother contractors.
That was because I have to goreally low.
(08:38):
I have to compete with Chuck ina truck.
It's like why Are you, Chuck,in a truck?
Why are you lowering yourselfto that level.
Why are you competing with thatguy?
Like?
You guys are not on the sameplaying field, Like?
Why do that to yourself?
Well, it's because thehomeowner just wants the
cheapest.
Do they Like?
(09:01):
Do they understand what they'regetting with that Like?
You need to educate them andexplain why your price is higher
.
What does that mean?
That means that I'm going toanswer the phone when something
goes wrong.
That means that you can find meon Google.
That means that you can find mein the Chamber of Commerce.
You can find me on Directory.
You can find me on NRCA.
Can you find Chuck in a trucksomewhere else?
(09:21):
Or is it just his cell phonenumber?
And if he changes his number,you'll never hear from him again
.
You know, these are the risksthat you take.
Where does chuck get hismaterial?
Does he have any warranties,like all these things that
homeowners don't understand.
These homeowners they're notexperts in roofing, right?
It's, uh, really easy for us toforget what people don't know,
(09:44):
right, like you, you roofing,you know what everything is and
you just assume that peoplemaybe not know as much as you do
, but that have a basicunderstanding of what you're
doing and they don't.
So that's our main approach iseducating the homeowner and when
they say, that's so good.
Yeah, no, go ahead homeowner,and when they say, well, I still
(10:09):
want to collect more estimates,oh, that is great.
Please do that.
Way you can see why we arebetter than everybody else,
right?
So we just blow it out of thewater with a presentation,
because we know that nobody elseis going to explain it the way
that we do, and we prep them allright.
So make sure that you ask, canask them this, this and this
(10:29):
what kind of shingle are theyusing?
How are they installing it?
Are they going to clean upafterwards?
Do they have this?
Do they have that?
Make sure that you ask thesequestions, okay, okay, they call
us later.
They're like well, you were themost expensive of them all, but
I want to go with you.
Why?
Because they feel safe with us,right?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
They understand the value behind the price.
No, that's so good.
And you know we just had oursecond annual Limitless Roofing
Summit, but the first one, ayear and a half ago, I invited
you to speak at because youbroke down your sales process in
detail and your educationalapproach.
You guys are even bringing likea miniature version of a roof
(11:12):
system and you're showing themthis is the shingles, this is
the underlayment, this is thedecking, here's some things you
need to look for.
And you're bringing thiseducational approach to the
point to where, when they dotalk to someone else, you guys
are coming out of the gate sostrong as experts.
When they talk to somebody else, there's no way they're going
to go with them.
And I think about that withanything.
(11:33):
I mean like I think about whenI threw my back out doing
jujitsu about 10 years ago and Iwas really getting into it,
loved it, but my back painstarted ratcheting up and my
back started getting more andmore stiff and then it got so
bad to where I couldn't even getout of bed one day, and it's
like dang, I guess I need tochill out on the jujitsu and it
(11:58):
just got worse from there to thepoint to where I couldn't walk.
I laid on my back for about aweek and then went to go see a
neurosurgeon and took they tookx-rays and did all that stuff.
And she's like, well, you'vegot two options.
You can either cut off the youknow your disc is herniated.
You've got it.
Your disc is protruding.
That's why you're feeling allthis sciatic nerve pain going
(12:21):
down the left leg and it feelslike somebody's poking you with
a hot iron.
That's nerve pain.
And I'm like, okay, what do wedo?
Because I'm walking around likea zombie, like I can't function
anymore.
My, I can't even drive my car.
My wife has to drive mesomewhere.
It takes me five minutes tojust get in in the car.
So she's like you can cut offthe protruded part of the disc
(12:41):
or just leave it alone.
It's not going to get any worse.
And this is a woman who's beenthrough a lot of school I mean
to be a neurosurgeon the amountof years in school after medical
school.
I was just like so disappointedby her analysis and her
recommendation.
So I started looking aroundonline and I find this
chiropractor that specializes inherniated discs and does this
(13:04):
thing called decompressiontherapy.
So I go to see this guy.
His whole approach was, justlike you're saying, extremely
educational.
He asked me, I was there for anhour.
He asked me a ton of questionsand then he started telling me
here's our process.
We're going to take x-rays ofyour neck, your back, we're
going to do alignment, we'regoing to weigh you on a scale
(13:25):
that weighs your right foot,your left foot, all these other
things.
And then here's my approach andhe's like, and I'm going to
tell you right out of the gate,I am not the cheapest.
He said my services are prettyexpensive and it's not going to
be covered by insurance.
Insurance companies aren't upto date on the best treatments,
he's like.
But I'll let me show you this.
He handed me a binder, thisthick of customer testimonials
(13:46):
handwritten, and I'm justreading person after person
going.
I couldn't walk.
I went to see this doctor andafter two months I was
completely back to normal.
Just after one after another,after another.
So I've been sold througheducation and sold on
testimonials.
And, man, I started going tosee this guy three times a week
and within two months my lifewas totally back to normal Zero
(14:10):
back pain.
It was done.
But I went with the mostexpensive option I could find it
was like $3,000 out of pocketfor two months of therapy, but
it changed, it saved my life andso I talked to people, I talked
to people, I, I talked to otherroofing members in our in the
limitless group about this andthey'll get in these issues of
(14:31):
well, how do you sell againstprice?
And it's like man, you shouldnever get in a price war.
You should totally be sellingon value and educating the
homeowner to the point.
Like I know your presentationpresentation.
Once they see your presentationat texas stag, anybody else who
comes to present, it's going tobe like black and white versus
color tv.
So it's gonna look it's thehomeowners and like, uh, like
(14:55):
you know, 10 minutes in they'regonna be like I don't know yeah,
exactly that's.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's the goal.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
That's that's pretty much how we want to do it so
what are the pros and cons ofretail versus insurance?
Because, as somebody who cameinto the industry from the
outside, with every roofingcompany I engage with, I think
we ask them all these questionslike what kind of work are you
doing Retail versus insurancework, stuff like that?
And with a heavy membershipgroup in Texas, most of the guys
(15:24):
in our group are doing almost100% storm restoration work, and
so what would you say to guysthat are listening to this what
are the pros and cons of justdoing retail or just doing storm
?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
work Well.
Number one you've got to makesure that your service and your
product is solid right, becauseobviously, if you're going to
sell on value, you've got tomake sure that your service and
your product is solid right,because obviously, if you're
going to sell on value, thevalue has to be there.
It's not about over-promisingand then not being able to
deliver right.
That would be the number onething that you can deliver on
(15:59):
the value that you're promising,right, and then having the
confidence that your service,your product, is that good, like
that you don't have to worryabout oh man.
Well, I'm telling them this,but what if it doesn't go like
that?
Right?
What if we have issues?
What if they have problems?
What if?
No?
Like you need to have theconfidence, because otherwise,
(16:22):
how can you present a numberthat is going to be higher than
everybody else more than likelyif they're trying to show up on
price, like most people do andbe able to give them that number
and be like yeah, that's whatthis is, and this is the reason
why, instead of like oh man,yeah, well, yeah, man is $3,000
(16:46):
more, you know.
Like that's not confident atall, it's just having the
confidence and the pros, I wouldsay no cash flow issues.
You finish the job, you get paidperiod On to the next one.
You don't have to requestrecoverable depreciation
(17:07):
supplements, none of that.
You finish the job, you getpaid period.
Like the workflow, the life ofa project, you know, on retail
is probably about a week with us, from the moment that we sign
it to the moment that we deliverthe warranty certificates.
But if we compare it withinsurance, we still have claims
(17:31):
that we signed back in July thatdon't have approval yet, you
know.
So that's the difference.
That's why I love retail.
Everybody loves cash and youknow cash is king, right?
Without cash flow, there'snothing.
So the con I would say you haveto be able to replicate yourself
(17:54):
, right?
You got to have a mini-me thatcan present the same way that
you do, that has the sameconfidence that you do, that has
the same knowledge that you do.
So that takes a little bit oftime.
You can't just hire someone andbe like, okay, go knock doors
and you're going to tell themthat the insurance is going to
take care of it.
They just have to pay theirdeductible and that's it.
(18:15):
No, it's a lot differentbecause with insurance,
technically, as long as nobodyis waiving deductibles, my cost
is going to be the same, right?
It doesn't mean if you go withme, you go with Chuck.
When you go with my competitor,you're just paying your
deductible, those $5,000, that'show much you're going to pay.
It's just about who's going todo the better job, right, but on
(18:39):
retail, no, it's a whole otherskill set.
You need to be able to readthem, you need to be able to
educate them, have the patienceto answer questions and actually
have the knowledge to breakdown the process and every
material that is going to be onthe roof.
So I don't I don't want to saythat it's a con, but it's
(19:00):
something that is going to takemore time and effort.
That's why it took us so longto put a sales team together
yeah, I know, I look at that I.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
when I got into roofing four years ago it was
selling roofs and I'd been insales for about 15 years uh,
predominantly sales, and thensome sales before that.
But I remember selling my firstfew roofs and thinking, man,
this is the easiest thing I'veever sold.
I mean, I'm in Dallas and thewhole sales process in Dallas
for most roofing companies iswell, I'll tell you what.
(19:31):
Let's do an inspection of yourroof.
Yeah, it looks like it's prettydamaged.
You may want to file a claim,know, and that's it and it's
like you know, you're, like yousaid, your deductible and and it
is the issue um, of course,most deductibles have gone up to
two percent or more at thistime now, but back then they
were almost all of them were onepercent and but even then you
(19:52):
can finance the, the deductibleif you need to.
So what would you?
So why aren't more roofingcompanies selling retail?
I mean, to me it's a no-brainer, it's like don't be a one-trick
pony, don't just focus oninsurance claims.
Have an actual sales processand system and sell value with
(20:13):
retail and get paid, like yousaid, cash.
You've got to have cash.
So why don't more guys do it?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I think it's, you know, just going after the
low-hanging fruit.
You know, Like we have probablylike 90% closing rate on
insurance.
If we go to an appointment andit's insurance, it's in the bag,
it's like there's no questionwhy?
Because we go through the sameprocess, same education process
that we do on retail, oninsurance.
(20:41):
So you can only imagine, right,so it's a lot easier to close,
right, it's a lot easier to sellIn retail.
I think it's just morecomplicated and most of the guys
try to compete on price.
You know just what we weretalking about a minute ago.
And that's not the point,because then you're pretty much
(21:03):
enabling truck in a truck, likeby competing with those prices
you make it normal.
So we go to an appointment andso they have an estimate for
$8,000, another one for $9,000.
They have one for $12,000, andlet's say that we're at $13,000,
(21:23):
right?
So if everybody's trying tocompete with Chuck, what is the
homeowner going to think?
Well, that is the normal price,that's how much my roof should
be.
But if we all legitimateroofing companies have our
prices aligned same as insurance, and we say, no, your roof is
going to be $13,000, $12,000,and the chug shows up with an
(21:45):
$8,000 estimate, then nohomeowner is going to see that
as a red flag.
They're going to be like wait,wait a minute, what do you mean?
It's $8,000?
What's up with that?
And then we can be like, well,yeah, exactly, don't you think
that's a little weird?
I mean, what do you think isgoing to put on your roof?
But if we all try to match thoseprices with better quality
material, with betterworkmanship, with actual
(22:08):
warranties, insured, withworkers' comp and all these
things, it doesn't make sense.
I think we just need to cometogether and put a stop to the
low prices.
With the low margins.
There's no way to run abusiness.
That's why, if you tell me, ifI do insurance, I have a 50%
(22:32):
profit margin, but if I doretail, I have a 20% profit
margin, I'm going to doinsurance all day, right.
But if we all get together andwe're all doing the same margins
on retail yeah, of course Thenthe whole industry is going to
shift Right.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
No for sure.
And where are you guys?
So you're going to get more ofa mix this year, maybe 50-50 or
even more weighted toward retail.
So where do you guys hope toland revenue wise in the next
couple of years?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
You know, and then from there just kind of
reevaluate, recalibrate and makesure that we are ready to scale
from there, because I feel likethat's a huge milestone and I
don't think it's the samescaling from 10 to 15 or 20.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So yeah, no, that's great, yeah, and so we.
So you guys have got the retailsales process down, and going
from that to storm work isyou're going to a simplified
process.
So you guys are doing great atthat.
But you guys have, yeah, it'seasy to sell a roof, but then,
(23:52):
like you said, all the back andforth with with adjusters and
carriers and waiting on checksit's just brutal sometimes.
But I want to get into what youguys are doing for lead
generation, because who cares ifyou can't sell, if you're not
bringing in leads?
And you've done something veryunusual and unique there.
But before we get into that,you're the company owner.
(24:12):
You're growing a growingcompany.
You've built a strong team.
You're doing stuff with us toimprove.
So I know you're going to beone of these roofing owners and
leaders that's going to have agreat company.
Like you're getting into someEOS.
You're getting into CultureIndex, you're getting into, you
know, mastermind.
Like you're doing everythingyou can to go to the next level
(24:33):
and remove the limits on yourleadership and on your success.
So, at this stage, though, whatkeeps you up at night?
Like what are those 1 am or 2am issues that you wake up and
you just that's it.
You start thinking about thatissue with your company.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, I sleep pretty well.
Well, I sleep pretty well.
(25:15):
The things that right now are achallenge is the insurance it's
, getting the recovery,depreciation release, it's, you
know, all that going back andforth.
I just I hate it, man.
I don't know how other peopledo it the same way that it's
confusing or odd for othercontractors that we just do
retail or that we like retailmore.
It blows my mind howcontractors deal with this BS,
you know, with the adjusters andall that.
It's just a freaking nightmare,to be honest.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Oh, I know.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Just to retail and having the quick turnaround and
then going to now, the processtakes months.
That's a I want to say.
We have about right now,probably 70 to 80,000 that we're
waiting on recover depreciationto be released.
That is over 60 days and it'slike wow and you just feel like
(26:08):
our hands are tied right, Likewe are doing everything by the
book, but the adjuster is justlike playing games, right.
So I guess that would be thething that it's one of the
biggest challenges right now.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah yeah, you've got a desk adjuster that's probably
never walked on a roof in hislife or her life.
Might have been a pastry chefbefore getting that job, and now
you're trying to educate him onwhat a roof should cost.
It's just so.
It's so frustrating.
So how are you overcoming thatchallenge?
I mean, are you guys workingwith a supplementing company or
(26:43):
are you trying to get somebodyin-house trained?
How are you dealing with that?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So we were working with a supplementing company,
but I want to say, 90% of theinsurance jobs that we sold last
year we ended up sending to aPA, because we know if it's
State Farm we don't even try.
(27:07):
We already know how it's goingto go, so we don't waste our
time, we send it straight to thePA.
Allstate same thing.
I don't know why, but most ofour volume was Allstate.
So, yeah, most claims ended uptied up with Public Adjuster.
I want to say right now we haveabout 35 claims with attorney.
(27:31):
So yeah, so yeah, whether wehave a PA or we handle the claim
with a supplement company, therecovery still takes forever, no
matter what.
So we're playing with differentideas and today, during the
(27:55):
call with Steve, um, I pickedthis brain.
I was like, hey, well, what ifwe do this?
What do we do that?
Well, yeah, that's a great idea.
That won't work.
Don't waste your time.
I'm like, okay, cool.
So yeah, we, we learned a loton that call that's great.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, and for those of you listening luis is talking
about, one of our mastermindmeetings was was solely focused
on insurance work today withSteve Patrick so, yeah, that's
great, man.
So let's get into what you'redoing to generate leads and I
mean, I was picking your brainon this yesterday because you're
doing something that reallycould apply to any, I don't care
what kind of business you haveroofing, hvac, plumbing,
(28:32):
healthcare this could apply.
So how are you guys generatingleads?
Because most guys are spendingmoney on Google ads.
What are you doing?
That's different.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
So we're doing Google ads as well.
We're doing Facebook ads, butour number one lead generator is
our call center by far.
Like it doesn't even come close.
Like I'm pulling up the numbersright now Back in November we
got 53 appointments out of thecall center seven appointments
(29:07):
from Facebook, four appointmentsfrom Google ads, three
appointments from our SEO.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So over 50 appointments in one month.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, the call center just blows it out of the water.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
What's your cost per booked appointment?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Cost per booked appointment at the call center
$141.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Wow, and I imagine, off the Facebook appointments
and stuff like that.
Let's say you get half of themto no show or whatever.
I assume the cost per bookedappointment is way higher.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Well, actually no, it would be Well.
Ok, so we have the appointmentsand then we have the actual
shows, right?
Because out of the appointmentsthat we have, not everybody
shows up, or some people they'renot home, whatever Right.
Or some people they're not home, whatever right.
So we have a 68% show rate onthe appointments that we book
(30:08):
from the call center, which iscrazy.
So, out of the actual,presentations.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
You know from the people that we actually meet
with that's $141.
Okay, and so when you said ourcall center, you've built your
own.
You're not outsourcing this tosome call center?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Right, yeah, yeah, they're company employees.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, okay, so how?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
in the world did you do that?
Where did you get that idea andhow did you do that?
So it all started with the VAs,right?
I hired VAs since my first yearin business because it was
great for me, because I was outthere doing everything right
Selling, estimating, measuring,project management, everything
(30:55):
right.
And so I would go sell and thennight I would put the estimates
together, you know.
So I barely slept.
So like, this is not going towork.
I can't scale like this, right.
So then I looked into gettingVAs and then, just being in that
world, right, I realized that alot of them had a cold calling
(31:19):
experience and I'm like tell memore about that.
How does that work?
Yeah, you know thetelemarketers and like all the
calls that we get.
I started looking into it moreand there's a lot of industries
that do really well with coldcallings and I'm like, man,
really, maybe it's worth a shot.
Let's see how this goes.
(31:41):
I hired quite a few agents tocall and it didn't go that well.
I tried, it failed, I prettymuch gave up on it and then I
was like you know what?
No, if other people are havingsuccess with it, there's a way.
I just got to find it, I justgot to figure this out.
(32:02):
I will try it again.
Some did good, some didn't.
It took a lot of trial and error, a lot of money that was spent
until I found a couple agentsthat were performing great One
(32:23):
of them.
So I remember the last well,not the last, but when I hired
these three agents, there wastwo that had a lot of experience
in, one that barely had anyexperience cold calling, and I'm
like you know what?
That's the guy that's not goingto make it Like, that's
probably the one that we'regoing to get rid of and I'm
going to keep the other two.
(32:43):
The opposite happened.
So this guy's work ethic and,plus, he's very coachable.
So I would listen to the calls,I would review the calls and
I'd be like, okay, this is whereit went wrong.
Like they told you this and yousaid this, or you didn't know
how to answer this.
So next time say this right,okay, okay, okay.
(33:04):
So I could see how he wasimproving and improving and
improving.
And then I was like, all righttime to get the next one.
But instead of hiring one thathad experience, we hired one
with no cold calling experience.
So like, all right, let's trainthem from scratch so they don't
bring any bad habits any youknow.
So that was the second one.
(33:25):
I'm like, all right, let's doit again, let's get the third
one.
And then that one guy, the onethat had the least amount of
experience, is now the onerunning the call center, like
he's the manager call center,but he's the manager.
(33:46):
So it's just about having thepatience to coach them, and you
got to keep an eye on them andmake sure that they know what
they're doing, that they havethe knowledge.
So now we have a system puttogether that is kind of like
plug and play we hire someone,we put them through the training
process.
It takes a week.
We just hired two new agentstwo weeks ago.
Their first week, first day.
(34:08):
They made two appointments eachWith no cold calling experience
.
We pay them $3 an hour, plusbonuses.
(34:29):
So my cost on the call center is$5,000 each month.
And that's with how many people, that is, with six people.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Six people, and that includes their hourly rate plus
bonuses.
Yes, and so you're spendingabout, and they work 40 hours a
week.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Okay, so you're paying these six people to cold
call.
They're setting appointmentsall day long.
How many with two additionalpeople?
How many appointments do youthink you're going to get next?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
month.
So they have a minimum goal offive appointments a week For you
to stay on the team.
You've got to hit those goals.
Plus, we have a 50% show rateas a goal as well, which most of
the time they kill it.
I want to say your average isprobably about 62-65% show rate,
(35:21):
but if anybody drops below 50%,we coach them, we try to find
the problem.
If it's not for them, becauseit's not going to be for
everybody, then we let them goand just get another one.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So, out of those 50 appointments, how many jobs do
you think you got out of that?
And what's the ROI that you'reshooting for with all this?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Well, so we had five signatures out of those 53, and
that was in November.
So that's the slow season,right season, right.
(36:09):
Um, on these, I don't have thetotal like uh, what the revenue
was here handy, so I can't tellyou what the ROI was, but let's
assume that each one it wasshoot at low, at 18,000 each
roof times five.
You're looking at $90,000 inrevenue with a $5,000 investment
.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, that's killer, I mean it's just I love it.
Yeah, and this is why I wasasking you well, luis, what do I
need to do to start my own callcenter?
Yeah, I mean it's, it's a we'regoing to.
You know, we're runningFacebook ads as well and we're
using the same company.
You are sales gadget with, uh,aaron Thomas.
(36:44):
And, by the way, for those ofyou listening to this, uh, we
have a special programs we haveas a group purchasing
organization.
We have group discounts oneverything from shingles to
marketing and lead gen, andsales gadget is one of our
marketing and lead gen partners,and we actually personally use
them, and so does luis at texasstag, I know you guys are just
(37:04):
getting started with them.
So it's probably too soon tokind of report on customer
testimonial, but, um, we've beenvery happy, very happy.
So so you've got this callcenter rocking and rolling and
you have these, these agentsthat you get, that you train,
and everything.
Is there a specific countrythat you try to work with when
it comes to vas?
Uh?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I have vas in venezuela, honduras and mexico,
um, so, since we're in houston,I I always get vas that are
bilingual english and spanish,because there's a lot of Latino,
you know, it's a big Latinocommunity here in this area, so
it just makes sense, you know,for us to have someone that well
(37:46):
, everybody speaks Spanish inthe back office.
All the agents that are coldcalling are in Venezuela, every
single one.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
That's wild.
Yeah, I think a lot of people,when they think VAs, they're
thinking Philippines, becausethe Philippines is just known
for having a lot of VAs.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
But it makes perfect sense if you're in Texas.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, but if you're in Texas, I mean, I think about
that.
If I started a roofing company,I would want somebody that's
bilingual.
That would be huge, especiallyin Houston.
I grew up in Houston, so I'mkind of kicking myself for not
learning Spanish earlier.
It would be so helpful to knowSpanish.
Living in Houston.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
You have yourself a VA that can teach you.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah right, man, that's great.
So you've got the retail salespart rocking and rolling, you've
got this call center.
You're you're growing yourcompany and your team.
What's what's one of thebiggest things that you've done?
And maybe it's been the stuffwe've already talked about, but
like what's been one of thebiggest game changers for you as
(38:55):
a business owner to help youget to where you want to go with
your business as a businessowner, to help you get to where
you want to go with yourbusiness.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
um, I mean, I I'm gonna go back to the same thing,
man the va's.
I think they give you a hugeadvantage, not not specifically
the call center, which I mean itis right, but like the whole
back office is run by DIs, thatreally, really, really, really
helped us scale.
Because, as a business owner,you know when you're like a
(39:29):
one-man show to make thattransition into all right now I
need to hire staff.
Can I afford that staff?
And I had to train that staff.
But if I don't hire that staff,I can't grow because I'm doing
everything by myself.
But if I don't hire that staff,I can't grow because I'm doing
everything by myself.
So it's a scary step, right,especially when you haven't done
it before.
So when you hire a VA that youcan pay I don't know if you have
(39:52):
a Filipino that can workfull-time for $300, $400 a month
I mean, come on, because you'renot going to find someone in
the States that can do it forthat much, that's willing to do
it for that much, right?
So that is a huge steppingstone to help you get to the
(40:12):
next level.
That was the plan.
But now everything is ran byVAs in our company, you know,
except sales right, likeobviously we need someone to go
get on the roofs and everything.
But we have a total of, I wantto say about 13, 14 VAs.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
That's a lot.
I mean most companies mighthave one or two, but I can't
imagine.
I mean I, I can only imagineyour net profit I mean true net
profit at the end of the year isprobably a lot healthier than
the average roofing company uh,not yet.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Not yet because we reallocate that money right.
So it's money that we can putinto marketing, that we can put
into, you know, investing intowithin the vehicle.
You know, because we're in thegrowing stages so we're not at a
point that, all right, we'resaving money that is going to go
into profits, like no, we'renot there yet, but it's what is
(41:12):
allowing us to.
You know, we have an office, wehave, you know, uh, we have
three trucks, we have all thesethings, and that is what's
allowed us, because can youimagine having 14 people here in
the States on payroll Dude?
That would be insane payroll,you know.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
So, yeah, yeah, that's some serious overhead,
but yeah, no, it makes perfectsense.
You're in growth mode.
You're not going out and buyingyourself a, a brand new truck
(41:56):
and a lake house, you're puttingmoney back in the homeowner
away, not just as decent, I meansomething that blows them away
to where, when somebody elsecomes along, you're glad that
they do, because there's no waythey can compete with your
approach.
And number two, consider usingVAs.
And if you guys want tointeract more with Luis, we have
(42:16):
a member community and you canjoin the conversation.
You can ask him well, whatabout this, what about that, how
do I do this?
And you can hear from othermembers.
We have a few different membersin our group that are using VAs
on another level, kind of likeyou are Luis.
But, man, before we end thisdiscussion, if you could give
(42:37):
the other company owners oneparting piece of advice based on
what you've learned so far,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
To join Limitless, pretty much.
So.
No, and it's not even you knowbecause we're in this podcast,
right, even if I was somewhereelse, if you are new to the
industry, if you're barelygetting your roofing company
started, if I had been part of agroup like Limitless when I got
(43:09):
started with roofing, we wouldbe at another level right now
Because I didn't know what I wasdoing.
I didn't know if I could reachout to it.
I didn't know who to reach outto.
I didn't know anybody else inroofing.
If I could reach out to it, Ididn't know who to reach out to.
I didn't know anybody else inroofing.
And then Facebook.
I mean, it's mostly haters, youknow.
So just being part of acommunity like this and people
(43:31):
that are willing to help,willing and able to help, it's
huge man.
It's a huge advantage,especially when you're new,
because you don't know what'swhat.
You don't know left from right,up from down.
So just having other businessowners that have been through
all this BS before that canguide you and tell you what to
(43:54):
do, what not to do, how to do it, so you don't have to learn the
hard way, that is just thebiggest advantage that you can
have as a new roofing businessowner.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
That's huge man.
Yeah, thanks for calling thatout.
We appreciate you being amember.
And yeah, for those of youlistening to this, the Limitless
Roofing Group, we're a grouppurchasing organization, which
means we bring hundreds ofroofing companies together.
We go to suppliers and vendors,we negotiate group deals,
discounts, programs and we passthat along to our members and
(44:28):
it's free to join.
It's kind of like Costco youjoin, you save, and it's that
simple.
At the time of the recording ofthis podcast, there's not even a
fee to join.
We're probably going to changethat pretty soon.
Just because psychologically, Ithink people think, oh, it's
free, it must be some kind of ascam.
So it's like, okay, well, we'llcharge people.
If it gives people more peaceof mind, it's free to join.
But then, if you want it,that's to get all the buying
(44:51):
power, the discounts programswith Beacon, srs, our fleet
program with discount tires, ourdiscounts on general liability
insurance and everything inbetween.
But if you want to join thecommunity and network and share
best practices with guys likeLuis and other members, that is
a paid experience.
But we want to make sure theROI is solid.
(45:11):
Going back to what Luis said,it's not free, but we think that
if you invest in yourself andinvest your company, it could be
the biggest turning point inyour journey, because you can
finally ask questions and getfeedback on your pressing
challenges and grow your companywith a team of owners and not
make those decisions on your own.
I really think that's.
The biggest challenge to anybusiness owner is isolation.
(45:34):
I mean, we're surroundingourselves with wise counsel and
I think, my gosh, how did wemake it this far without this
counsel we just received thisweek?
You know, it's just.
You just don't know what youdon't know as a business owner.
So anyway, man, I reallyappreciate that, luis, and thank
you for taking time out of yourbusy schedule to be on the show
(45:56):
.
For those of you listening, Ijust want to challenge you get
into some retail get into someVAs, you'll be glad you did.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
And Luis, thanks for being on the show.
Man, of course, man, thank youfor having me.
all right, we have got luis venegas on the show
today from texas stag roofing.
Luis, thanks for joining theshow, man thank you for having
me yeah, and so for those of youlistening, luis is, he's a
member of the limitless roofinggroup.
He's also a member of ourmastermind called Forged.
He's also doing some reallyinteresting things that a lot of
(00:28):
roofers are not doingexceptionally well.
He has a very unique approachto retail sales, even though
he's in the Texas market.
He also has some things he'sdoing with a call center that
are unusual in a really good way, and so it's just been really
cool to watch you grow yourcompany, and so we'll get into
some of that stuff.
But before we do that, justgive people a little bit of
(00:50):
background, like who are you andhow did you get into roofing?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, I've been in roofing for about five years
Actually, this month is ouranniversary and I got into it
because of a friend of mine, soI had zero roofing experience.
When I started the company, Ihad a friend that had a roofing
(01:16):
experience installing, you know,doing the labor part of it.
And I was helping a painter atthe time, a custom painter and
we would just paint likemansions, right, like million
dollar homes.
And my friend was asking me whyare you doing that for somebody
else?
Why don't you do it foryourself?
You know you get in front ofcustom builders, you build a
(01:37):
relationship, you get jobs fromthem.
Why don't you do it foryourself?
And I'm like I don't know howto paint, you know I can't do
that kind of work.
And he's like well, no, I knowroofing, so we can get a roofing
company started and then justsee how it goes.
It didn't take much, you know.
I want to say maybe like amonth after that we were already
(01:59):
getting everything going and,uh, well, slowly, you know, I
just started learning whateverything was.
I didn't know, like the partsof the roof, I didn't know
anything whatsoever.
And he has another business.
So I want to say maybe like ayear in, he had to step away to
focus more on that otherbusiness, and so I really,
(02:20):
really had to had to learneverything.
That's how it all got started.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
That's a trial by fire for sure.
Yes, it was.
But you had started your owncompany at that point, or were
you guys in some sort of apartnership, or how did that
work?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, he's still my partner.
Yeah, he's still involved.
Well, he doesn't live here inHouston, but he's still, yeah,
he's still involved.
He's uh, well, he doesn't livehere in houston but, uh, he's
still involved with with thebusiness, maybe not day-to-day,
but he comes by maybe, uh, everymonth, every other month, you
know something like that um, oncalls, you know he still helps
(03:01):
with the team and everything, sohe's still involved nice.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So he kind of helped you get going.
But but then you really becamethe owner-operator.
You put some serious energy andhorsepower behind growing sales
, making things happen.
That's great.
So tell us a little bit aboutTexas Stag.
What kind of roofing company isit?
Are you guys?
Residential, commercial?
A little bit of both.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Mostly residential.
I can probably count with myfingers how many commercial jobs
we've done.
It hasn't really been a focus.
Every residential I meancommercial job that we've done,
it pretty much landed on our lap.
You know we haven't reallypursued commercial, but this
year that's changing.
That's one of the goals forthis year to this year to tap
(03:45):
into commercial a little bitmore.
We, for the first three years,we were mostly retail.
I want to say 95% of our volumewas retail, until I didn't
understand anything aboutinsurance.
I didn't know how to work, Ididn't know how to communicate
(04:07):
with adjusters, any of that.
But I realized I was leaving alot of money on the table.
So I was like you know what?
It's time to learn, it's timeto adapt.
So, yeah, we started doinginsurance in 2000.
At the end of 2023, 2024, wewent pretty heavy in insurance.
So now and I don't like it tobe honest I freaking hate
(04:33):
insurance.
Work man, it's a totalnightmare.
So this year I want to havelike a 50-50 split.
I don't want to rely oninsurance.
If it was up to me, I wouldjust do 100 retail, but I don't
want to, you know, just sohere's.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Here's what makes you unusual in a really good way
compared to you know we've gotabout 330 companies in our, in
our buying group and our gpoyou're one of the only guys I
know that's in a storm would beconsidered a storm market in
texas that is so focused onretail and you just started
doing storm restoration work.
(05:16):
So how did you get started intoretail?
And then you know why did youstick with that?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
well, um, the reason why we do things very outside
the box or the unusual way isbecause I didn't really have a
mentor, you know, to guide methrough.
This is how you do roofing,right.
So I I have experience in sales.
I've been selling for for along time right, have experience
(05:48):
in sales, I've been selling fora long time, right.
And so when I hear we doroofing, now like this is what
we're into, what do I do?
Well, I got to go sell a roof,right.
So I will talk to people likehey, it looks like you need a
roof, I can finance it, let's doit.
You know, like that's prettymuch how you get started.
I didn't understand theinsurance world, right, and the
(06:08):
storm chasing and none of that.
And just, I looked into it alittle bit and it seems so
complicated and I didn't want towait to learn at all.
But I was like you know what,let me just go this route where
people pay cash, they financewhatever.
And if it was insurance, Iwould just go meet with the fuel
(06:31):
adjuster and if it getsapproved, great.
And if it doesn't, it doesn'tright.
Then I finance it, and if itgets approved, I just wait to
collect the check.
I wouldn't communicate with thecarrier at all.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Interesting.
So with retail, though, yoursales process is a lot different
.
So tell us about that.
Like what is your retail salesprocess?
What's your typical close rate?
Not for you personally, but foryour typical sales guy, because
your close rate is going to beway higher, but what does it
look like?
What's the sales process looklike?
(07:07):
What close rate are you goingfor Stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, we use SumoQuote for our presentations
and I made the SumoQuote in away that the sales rep just has
to follow page after page.
They don't have to memorize theprocess.
They pretty much have areminder every step of the way
on what to say, what to touch on, what to explain.
(07:34):
So we go a lot into education.
We have a more educationalapproach.
It's not like oh yeah, this isthe shingle and this is the
prize.
What do you want to do?
No, it's not like that.
So we explain what the tarifflooks like.
(07:55):
We explain why removing theother label is important, why
inspecting the decking isimportant, why the different
shingles are important, whatimpact resistance means, what
the hip and ridge, why thestarter is important, what the
drippage does.
We go into a lot of detailbecause nobody else is doing
(08:17):
that.
That's how we build value right.
So we still on retail.
We still hit the margins thatwe hit on insurance.
So we don't sacrifice moneywhen we go retail, which is
something that I hear a lot withother contractors.
That was because I have to goreally low.
(08:38):
I have to compete with Chuck ina truck.
It's like why Are you, Chuck,in a truck?
Why are you lowering yourselfto that level.
Why are you competing with thatguy?
Like?
You guys are not on the sameplaying field, Like?
Why do that to yourself?
Well, it's because thehomeowner just wants the
cheapest.
Do they Like?
(09:01):
Do they understand what they'regetting with that Like?
You need to educate them andexplain why your price is higher
.
What does that mean?
That means that I'm going toanswer the phone when something
goes wrong.
That means that you can find meon Google.
That means that you can find mein the Chamber of Commerce.
You can find me on Directory.
You can find me on NRCA.
Can you find Chuck in a trucksomewhere else?
(09:21):
Or is it just his cell phonenumber?
And if he changes his number,you'll never hear from him again
.
You know, these are the risksthat you take.
Where does chuck get hismaterial?
Does he have any warranties,like all these things that
homeowners don't understand.
These homeowners they're notexperts in roofing, right?
It's, uh, really easy for us toforget what people don't know,
(09:44):
right, like you, you roofing,you know what everything is and
you just assume that peoplemaybe not know as much as you do
, but that have a basicunderstanding of what you're
doing and they don't.
So that's our main approach iseducating the homeowner and when
they say, that's so good.
Yeah, no, go ahead homeowner,and when they say, well, I still
(10:09):
want to collect more estimates,oh, that is great.
Please do that.
Way you can see why we arebetter than everybody else,
right?
So we just blow it out of thewater with a presentation,
because we know that nobody elseis going to explain it the way
that we do, and we prep them allright.
So make sure that you ask, canask them this, this and this
(10:29):
what kind of shingle are theyusing?
How are they installing it?
Are they going to clean upafterwards?
Do they have this?
Do they have that?
Make sure that you ask thesequestions, okay, okay, they call
us later.
They're like well, you were themost expensive of them all, but
I want to go with you.
Why?
Because they feel safe with us,right?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
They understand the value behind the price.
No, that's so good.
And you know we just had oursecond annual Limitless Roofing
Summit, but the first one, ayear and a half ago, I invited
you to speak at because youbroke down your sales process in
detail and your educationalapproach.
You guys are even bringing likea miniature version of a roof
(11:12):
system and you're showing themthis is the shingles, this is
the underlayment, this is thedecking, here's some things you
need to look for.
And you're bringing thiseducational approach to the
point to where, when they dotalk to someone else, you guys
are coming out of the gate sostrong as experts.
When they talk to somebody else, there's no way they're going
to go with them.
And I think about that withanything.
(11:33):
I mean like I think about whenI threw my back out doing
jujitsu about 10 years ago and Iwas really getting into it,
loved it, but my back painstarted ratcheting up and my
back started getting more andmore stiff and then it got so
bad to where I couldn't even getout of bed one day, and it's
like dang, I guess I need tochill out on the jujitsu and it
(11:58):
just got worse from there to thepoint to where I couldn't walk.
I laid on my back for about aweek and then went to go see a
neurosurgeon and took they tookx-rays and did all that stuff.
And she's like, well, you'vegot two options.
You can either cut off the youknow your disc is herniated.
You've got it.
Your disc is protruding.
That's why you're feeling allthis sciatic nerve pain going
(12:21):
down the left leg and it feelslike somebody's poking you with
a hot iron.
That's nerve pain.
And I'm like, okay, what do wedo?
Because I'm walking around likea zombie, like I can't function
anymore.
My, I can't even drive my car.
My wife has to drive mesomewhere.
It takes me five minutes tojust get in in the car.
So she's like you can cut offthe protruded part of the disc
(12:41):
or just leave it alone.
It's not going to get any worse.
And this is a woman who's beenthrough a lot of school I mean
to be a neurosurgeon the amountof years in school after medical
school.
I was just like so disappointedby her analysis and her
recommendation.
So I started looking aroundonline and I find this
chiropractor that specializes inherniated discs and does this
(13:04):
thing called decompressiontherapy.
So I go to see this guy.
His whole approach was, justlike you're saying, extremely
educational.
He asked me, I was there for anhour.
He asked me a ton of questionsand then he started telling me
here's our process.
We're going to take x-rays ofyour neck, your back, we're
going to do alignment, we'regoing to weigh you on a scale
(13:25):
that weighs your right foot,your left foot, all these other
things.
And then here's my approach andhe's like, and I'm going to
tell you right out of the gate,I am not the cheapest.
He said my services are prettyexpensive and it's not going to
be covered by insurance.
Insurance companies aren't upto date on the best treatments,
he's like.
But I'll let me show you this.
He handed me a binder, thisthick of customer testimonials
(13:46):
handwritten, and I'm justreading person after person
going.
I couldn't walk.
I went to see this doctor andafter two months I was
completely back to normal.
Just after one after another,after another.
So I've been sold througheducation and sold on
testimonials.
And, man, I started going tosee this guy three times a week
and within two months my lifewas totally back to normal Zero
(14:10):
back pain.
It was done.
But I went with the mostexpensive option I could find it
was like $3,000 out of pocketfor two months of therapy, but
it changed, it saved my life andso I talked to people, I talked
to people, I, I talked to otherroofing members in our in the
limitless group about this andthey'll get in these issues of
(14:31):
well, how do you sell againstprice?
And it's like man, you shouldnever get in a price war.
You should totally be sellingon value and educating the
homeowner to the point.
Like I know your presentationpresentation.
Once they see your presentationat texas stag, anybody else who
comes to present, it's going tobe like black and white versus
color tv.
So it's gonna look it's thehomeowners and like, uh, like
(14:55):
you know, 10 minutes in they'regonna be like I don't know yeah,
exactly that's.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's the goal.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
That's that's pretty much how we want to do it so
what are the pros and cons ofretail versus insurance?
Because, as somebody who cameinto the industry from the
outside, with every roofingcompany I engage with, I think
we ask them all these questionslike what kind of work are you
doing Retail versus insurancework, stuff like that?
And with a heavy membershipgroup in Texas, most of the guys
(15:24):
in our group are doing almost100% storm restoration work, and
so what would you say to guysthat are listening to this what
are the pros and cons of justdoing retail or just doing storm
?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
work Well.
Number one you've got to makesure that your service and your
product is solid right, becauseobviously, if you're going to
sell on value, you've got tomake sure that your service and
your product is solid right,because obviously, if you're
going to sell on value, thevalue has to be there.
It's not about over-promisingand then not being able to
deliver right.
That would be the number onething that you can deliver on
(15:59):
the value that you're promising,right, and then having the
confidence that your service,your product, is that good, like
that you don't have to worryabout oh man.
Well, I'm telling them this,but what if it doesn't go like
that?
Right?
What if we have issues?
What if they have problems?
What if?
No?
Like you need to have theconfidence, because otherwise,
(16:22):
how can you present a numberthat is going to be higher than
everybody else more than likelyif they're trying to show up on
price, like most people do andbe able to give them that number
and be like yeah, that's whatthis is, and this is the reason
why, instead of like oh man,yeah, well, yeah, man is $3,000
(16:46):
more, you know.
Like that's not confident atall, it's just having the
confidence and the pros, I wouldsay no cash flow issues.
You finish the job, you get paidperiod On to the next one.
You don't have to requestrecoverable depreciation
(17:07):
supplements, none of that.
You finish the job, you getpaid period.
Like the workflow, the life ofa project, you know, on retail
is probably about a week with us, from the moment that we sign
it to the moment that we deliverthe warranty certificates.
But if we compare it withinsurance, we still have claims
(17:31):
that we signed back in July thatdon't have approval yet, you
know.
So that's the difference.
That's why I love retail.
Everybody loves cash and youknow cash is king, right?
Without cash flow, there'snothing.
So the con I would say you haveto be able to replicate yourself
(17:54):
, right?
You got to have a mini-me thatcan present the same way that
you do, that has the sameconfidence that you do, that has
the same knowledge that you do.
So that takes a little bit oftime.
You can't just hire someone andbe like, okay, go knock doors
and you're going to tell themthat the insurance is going to
take care of it.
They just have to pay theirdeductible and that's it.
(18:15):
No, it's a lot differentbecause with insurance,
technically, as long as nobodyis waiving deductibles, my cost
is going to be the same, right?
It doesn't mean if you go withme, you go with Chuck.
When you go with my competitor,you're just paying your
deductible, those $5,000, that'show much you're going to pay.
It's just about who's going todo the better job, right, but on
(18:39):
retail, no, it's a whole otherskill set.
You need to be able to readthem, you need to be able to
educate them, have the patienceto answer questions and actually
have the knowledge to breakdown the process and every
material that is going to be onthe roof.
So I don't I don't want to saythat it's a con, but it's
(19:00):
something that is going to takemore time and effort.
That's why it took us so longto put a sales team together
yeah, I know, I look at that I.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
when I got into roofing four years ago it was
selling roofs and I'd been insales for about 15 years uh,
predominantly sales, and thensome sales before that.
But I remember selling my firstfew roofs and thinking, man,
this is the easiest thing I'veever sold.
I mean, I'm in Dallas and thewhole sales process in Dallas
for most roofing companies iswell, I'll tell you what.
(19:31):
Let's do an inspection of yourroof.
Yeah, it looks like it's prettydamaged.
You may want to file a claim,know, and that's it and it's
like you know, you're, like yousaid, your deductible and and it
is the issue um, of course,most deductibles have gone up to
two percent or more at thistime now, but back then they
were almost all of them were onepercent and but even then you
(19:52):
can finance the, the deductibleif you need to.
So what would you?
So why aren't more roofingcompanies selling retail?
I mean, to me it's a no-brainer, it's like don't be a one-trick
pony, don't just focus oninsurance claims.
Have an actual sales processand system and sell value with
(20:13):
retail and get paid, like yousaid, cash.
You've got to have cash.
So why don't more guys do it?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I think it's, you know, just going after the
low-hanging fruit.
You know, Like we have probablylike 90% closing rate on
insurance.
If we go to an appointment andit's insurance, it's in the bag,
it's like there's no questionwhy?
Because we go through the sameprocess, same education process
that we do on retail, oninsurance.
(20:41):
So you can only imagine, right,so it's a lot easier to close,
right, it's a lot easier to sellIn retail.
I think it's just morecomplicated and most of the guys
try to compete on price.
You know just what we weretalking about a minute ago.
And that's not the point,because then you're pretty much
(21:03):
enabling truck in a truck, likeby competing with those prices
you make it normal.
So we go to an appointment andso they have an estimate for
$8,000, another one for $9,000.
They have one for $12,000, andlet's say that we're at $13,000,
(21:23):
right?
So if everybody's trying tocompete with Chuck, what is the
homeowner going to think?
Well, that is the normal price,that's how much my roof should
be.
But if we all legitimateroofing companies have our
prices aligned same as insurance, and we say, no, your roof is
going to be $13,000, $12,000,and the chug shows up with an
(21:45):
$8,000 estimate, then nohomeowner is going to see that
as a red flag.
They're going to be like wait,wait a minute, what do you mean?
It's $8,000?
What's up with that?
And then we can be like, well,yeah, exactly, don't you think
that's a little weird?
I mean, what do you think isgoing to put on your roof?
But if we all try to match thoseprices with better quality
material, with betterworkmanship, with actual
(22:08):
warranties, insured, withworkers' comp and all these
things, it doesn't make sense.
I think we just need to cometogether and put a stop to the
low prices.
With the low margins.
There's no way to run abusiness.
That's why, if you tell me, ifI do insurance, I have a 50%
(22:32):
profit margin, but if I doretail, I have a 20% profit
margin, I'm going to doinsurance all day, right.
But if we all get together andwe're all doing the same margins
on retail yeah, of course Thenthe whole industry is going to
shift Right.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
No for sure.
And where are you guys?
So you're going to get more ofa mix this year, maybe 50-50 or
even more weighted toward retail.
So where do you guys hope toland revenue wise in the next
couple of years?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
You know, and then from there just kind of
reevaluate, recalibrate and makesure that we are ready to scale
from there, because I feel likethat's a huge milestone and I
don't think it's the samescaling from 10 to 15 or 20.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So yeah, no, that's great, yeah, and so we.
So you guys have got the retailsales process down, and going
from that to storm work isyou're going to a simplified
process.
So you guys are doing great atthat.
But you guys have, yeah, it'seasy to sell a roof, but then,
(23:52):
like you said, all the back andforth with with adjusters and
carriers and waiting on checksit's just brutal sometimes.
But I want to get into what youguys are doing for lead
generation, because who cares ifyou can't sell, if you're not
bringing in leads?
And you've done something veryunusual and unique there.
But before we get into that,you're the company owner.
(24:12):
You're growing a growingcompany.
You've built a strong team.
You're doing stuff with us toimprove.
So I know you're going to beone of these roofing owners and
leaders that's going to have agreat company.
Like you're getting into someEOS.
You're getting into CultureIndex, you're getting into, you
know, mastermind.
Like you're doing everythingyou can to go to the next level
(24:33):
and remove the limits on yourleadership and on your success.
So, at this stage, though, whatkeeps you up at night?
Like what are those 1 am or 2am issues that you wake up and
you just that's it.
You start thinking about thatissue with your company.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, I sleep pretty well.
Well, I sleep pretty well.
(25:15):
The things that right now are achallenge is the insurance it's
, getting the recovery,depreciation release, it's, you
know, all that going back andforth.
I just I hate it, man.
I don't know how other peopledo it the same way that it's
confusing or odd for othercontractors that we just do
retail or that we like retailmore.
It blows my mind howcontractors deal with this BS,
you know, with the adjusters andall that.
It's just a freaking nightmare,to be honest.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Oh, I know.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Just to retail and having the quick turnaround and
then going to now, the processtakes months.
That's a I want to say.
We have about right now,probably 70 to 80,000 that we're
waiting on recover depreciationto be released.
That is over 60 days and it'slike wow and you just feel like
(26:08):
our hands are tied right, Likewe are doing everything by the
book, but the adjuster is justlike playing games, right.
So I guess that would be thething that it's one of the
biggest challenges right now.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah yeah, you've got a desk adjuster that's probably
never walked on a roof in hislife or her life.
Might have been a pastry chefbefore getting that job, and now
you're trying to educate him onwhat a roof should cost.
It's just so.
It's so frustrating.
So how are you overcoming thatchallenge?
I mean, are you guys workingwith a supplementing company or
(26:43):
are you trying to get somebodyin-house trained?
How are you dealing with that?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So we were working with a supplementing company,
but I want to say, 90% of theinsurance jobs that we sold last
year we ended up sending to aPA, because we know if it's
State Farm we don't even try.
(27:07):
We already know how it's goingto go, so we don't waste our
time, we send it straight to thePA.
Allstate same thing.
I don't know why, but most ofour volume was Allstate.
So, yeah, most claims ended uptied up with Public Adjuster.
I want to say right now we haveabout 35 claims with attorney.
(27:31):
So yeah, so yeah, whether wehave a PA or we handle the claim
with a supplement company, therecovery still takes forever, no
matter what.
So we're playing with differentideas and today, during the
(27:55):
call with Steve, um, I pickedthis brain.
I was like, hey, well, what ifwe do this?
What do we do that?
Well, yeah, that's a great idea.
That won't work.
Don't waste your time.
I'm like, okay, cool.
So yeah, we, we learned a loton that call that's great.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, and for those of you listening luis is talking
about, one of our mastermindmeetings was was solely focused
on insurance work today withSteve Patrick so, yeah, that's
great, man.
So let's get into what you'redoing to generate leads and I
mean, I was picking your brainon this yesterday because you're
doing something that reallycould apply to any, I don't care
what kind of business you haveroofing, hvac, plumbing,
(28:32):
healthcare this could apply.
So how are you guys generatingleads?
Because most guys are spendingmoney on Google ads.
What are you doing?
That's different.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
So we're doing Google ads as well.
We're doing Facebook ads, butour number one lead generator is
our call center by far.
Like it doesn't even come close.
Like I'm pulling up the numbersright now Back in November we
got 53 appointments out of thecall center seven appointments
(29:07):
from Facebook, four appointmentsfrom Google ads, three
appointments from our SEO.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
So over 50 appointments in one month.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, the call center just blows it out of the water.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
What's your cost per booked appointment?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Cost per booked appointment at the call center
$141.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Wow, and I imagine, off the Facebook appointments
and stuff like that.
Let's say you get half of themto no show or whatever.
I assume the cost per bookedappointment is way higher.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Well, actually no, it would be Well.
Ok, so we have the appointmentsand then we have the actual
shows, right?
Because out of the appointmentsthat we have, not everybody
shows up, or some people they'renot home, whatever Right.
Or some people they're not home, whatever right.
So we have a 68% show rate onthe appointments that we book
(30:08):
from the call center, which iscrazy.
So, out of the actual,presentations.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
You know from the people that we actually meet
with that's $141.
Okay, and so when you said ourcall center, you've built your
own.
You're not outsourcing this tosome call center?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Right, yeah, yeah, they're company employees.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah, okay, so how?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
in the world did you do that?
Where did you get that idea andhow did you do that?
So it all started with the VAs,right?
I hired VAs since my first yearin business because it was
great for me, because I was outthere doing everything right
Selling, estimating, measuring,project management, everything
(30:55):
right.
And so I would go sell and thennight I would put the estimates
together, you know.
So I barely slept.
So like, this is not going towork.
I can't scale like this, right.
So then I looked into gettingVAs and then, just being in that
world, right, I realized that alot of them had a cold calling
(31:19):
experience and I'm like tell memore about that.
How does that work?
Yeah, you know thetelemarketers and like all the
calls that we get.
I started looking into it moreand there's a lot of industries
that do really well with coldcallings and I'm like, man,
really, maybe it's worth a shot.
Let's see how this goes.
(31:41):
I hired quite a few agents tocall and it didn't go that well.
I tried, it failed, I prettymuch gave up on it and then I
was like you know what?
No, if other people are havingsuccess with it, there's a way.
I just got to find it, I justgot to figure this out.
(32:02):
I will try it again.
Some did good, some didn't.
It took a lot of trial and error, a lot of money that was spent
until I found a couple agentsthat were performing great One
(32:23):
of them.
So I remember the last well,not the last, but when I hired
these three agents, there wastwo that had a lot of experience
in, one that barely had anyexperience cold calling, and I'm
like you know what?
That's the guy that's not goingto make it Like, that's
probably the one that we'regoing to get rid of and I'm
going to keep the other two.
(32:43):
The opposite happened.
So this guy's work ethic and,plus, he's very coachable.
So I would listen to the calls,I would review the calls and
I'd be like, okay, this is whereit went wrong.
Like they told you this and yousaid this, or you didn't know
how to answer this.
So next time say this right,okay, okay, okay.
(33:04):
So I could see how he wasimproving and improving and
improving.
And then I was like, all righttime to get the next one.
But instead of hiring one thathad experience, we hired one
with no cold calling experience.
So like, all right, let's trainthem from scratch so they don't
bring any bad habits any youknow.
So that was the second one.
(33:25):
I'm like, all right, let's doit again, let's get the third
one.
And then that one guy, the onethat had the least amount of
experience, is now the onerunning the call center, like
he's the manager call center,but he's the manager.
(33:46):
So it's just about having thepatience to coach them, and you
got to keep an eye on them andmake sure that they know what
they're doing, that they havethe knowledge.
So now we have a system puttogether that is kind of like
plug and play we hire someone,we put them through the training
process.
It takes a week.
We just hired two new agentstwo weeks ago.
Their first week, first day.
(34:08):
They made two appointments eachWith no cold calling experience
.
We pay them $3 an hour, plusbonuses.
(34:29):
So my cost on the call center is$5,000 each month.
And that's with how many people, that is, with six people.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Six people, and that includes their hourly rate plus
bonuses.
Yes, and so you're spendingabout, and they work 40 hours a
week.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Okay, so you're paying these six people to cold
call.
They're setting appointmentsall day long.
How many with two additionalpeople?
How many appointments do youthink you're going to get next?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
month.
So they have a minimum goal offive appointments a week For you
to stay on the team.
You've got to hit those goals.
Plus, we have a 50% show rateas a goal as well, which most of
the time they kill it.
I want to say your average isprobably about 62-65% show rate,
(35:21):
but if anybody drops below 50%,we coach them, we try to find
the problem.
If it's not for them, becauseit's not going to be for
everybody, then we let them goand just get another one.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So, out of those 50 appointments, how many jobs do
you think you got out of that?
And what's the ROI that you'reshooting for with all this?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Well, so we had five signatures out of those 53, and
that was in November.
So that's the slow season,right season, right.
(36:09):
Um, on these, I don't have thetotal like uh, what the revenue
was here handy, so I can't tellyou what the ROI was, but let's
assume that each one it wasshoot at low, at 18,000 each
roof times five.
You're looking at $90,000 inrevenue with a $5,000 investment
.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, that's killer, I mean it's just I love it.
Yeah, and this is why I wasasking you well, luis, what do I
need to do to start my own callcenter?
Yeah, I mean it's, it's a we'regoing to.
You know, we're runningFacebook ads as well and we're
using the same company.
You are sales gadget with, uh,aaron Thomas.
(36:44):
And, by the way, for those ofyou listening to this, uh, we
have a special programs we haveas a group purchasing
organization.
We have group discounts oneverything from shingles to
marketing and lead gen, andsales gadget is one of our
marketing and lead gen partners,and we actually personally use
them, and so does luis at texasstag, I know you guys are just
(37:04):
getting started with them.
So it's probably too soon tokind of report on customer
testimonial, but, um, we've beenvery happy, very happy.
So so you've got this callcenter rocking and rolling and
you have these, these agentsthat you get, that you train,
and everything.
Is there a specific countrythat you try to work with when
it comes to vas?
Uh?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I have vas in venezuela, honduras and mexico,
um, so, since we're in houston,I I always get vas that are
bilingual english and spanish,because there's a lot of Latino,
you know, it's a big Latinocommunity here in this area, so
it just makes sense, you know,for us to have someone that well
(37:46):
, everybody speaks Spanish inthe back office.
All the agents that are coldcalling are in Venezuela, every
single one.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
That's wild.
Yeah, I think a lot of people,when they think VAs, they're
thinking Philippines, becausethe Philippines is just known
for having a lot of VAs.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
But it makes perfect sense if you're in Texas.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, but if you're in Texas, I mean, I think about
that.
If I started a roofing company,I would want somebody that's
bilingual.
That would be huge, especiallyin Houston.
I grew up in Houston, so I'mkind of kicking myself for not
learning Spanish earlier.
It would be so helpful to knowSpanish.
Living in Houston.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
You have yourself a VA that can teach you.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah right, man, that's great.
So you've got the retail salespart rocking and rolling, you've
got this call center.
You're you're growing yourcompany and your team.
What's what's one of thebiggest things that you've done?
And maybe it's been the stuffwe've already talked about, but
like what's been one of thebiggest game changers for you as
(38:55):
a business owner to help youget to where you want to go with
your business as a businessowner, to help you get to where
you want to go with yourbusiness.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
um, I mean, I I'm gonna go back to the same thing,
man the va's.
I think they give you a hugeadvantage, not not specifically
the call center, which I mean itis right, but like the whole
back office is run by DIs, thatreally, really, really, really
helped us scale.
Because, as a business owner,you know when you're like a
(39:29):
one-man show to make thattransition into all right now I
need to hire staff.
Can I afford that staff?
And I had to train that staff.
But if I don't hire that staff,I can't grow because I'm doing
everything by myself.
But if I don't hire that staff,I can't grow because I'm doing
everything by myself.
So it's a scary step, right,especially when you haven't done
it before.
So when you hire a VA that youcan pay I don't know if you have
(39:52):
a Filipino that can workfull-time for $300, $400 a month
I mean, come on, because you'renot going to find someone in
the States that can do it forthat much, that's willing to do
it for that much, right?
So that is a huge steppingstone to help you get to the
(40:12):
next level.
That was the plan.
But now everything is ran byVAs in our company, you know,
except sales right, likeobviously we need someone to go
get on the roofs and everything.
But we have a total of, I wantto say about 13, 14 VAs.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
That's a lot.
I mean most companies mighthave one or two, but I can't
imagine.
I mean I, I can only imagineyour net profit I mean true net
profit at the end of the year isprobably a lot healthier than
the average roofing company uh,not yet.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Not yet because we reallocate that money right.
So it's money that we can putinto marketing, that we can put
into, you know, investing intowithin the vehicle.
You know, because we're in thegrowing stages so we're not at a
point that, all right, we'resaving money that is going to go
into profits, like no, we'renot there yet, but it's what is
(41:12):
allowing us to.
You know, we have an office, wehave, you know, uh, we have
three trucks, we have all thesethings, and that is what's
allowed us, because can youimagine having 14 people here in
the States on payroll Dude?
That would be insane payroll,you know.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
So, yeah, yeah, that's some serious overhead,
but yeah, no, it makes perfectsense.
You're in growth mode.
You're not going out and buyingyourself a, a brand new truck
(41:56):
and a lake house, you're puttingmoney back in the homeowner
away, not just as decent, I meansomething that blows them away
to where, when somebody elsecomes along, you're glad that
they do, because there's no waythey can compete with your
approach.
And number two, consider usingVAs.
And if you guys want tointeract more with Luis, we have
(42:16):
a member community and you canjoin the conversation.
You can ask him well, whatabout this, what about that, how
do I do this?
And you can hear from othermembers.
We have a few different membersin our group that are using VAs
on another level, kind of likeyou are Luis.
But, man, before we end thisdiscussion, if you could give
(42:37):
the other company owners oneparting piece of advice based on
what you've learned so far,what would it be?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
To join Limitless, pretty much.
So.
No, and it's not even you knowbecause we're in this podcast,
right, even if I was somewhereelse, if you are new to the
industry, if you're barelygetting your roofing company
started, if I had been part of agroup like Limitless when I got
(43:09):
started with roofing, we wouldbe at another level right now
Because I didn't know what I wasdoing.
I didn't know if I could reachout to it.
I didn't know who to reach outto.
I didn't know anybody else inroofing.
If I could reach out to it, Ididn't know who to reach out to.
I didn't know anybody else inroofing.
And then Facebook.
I mean, it's mostly haters, youknow.
So just being part of acommunity like this and people
(43:31):
that are willing to help,willing and able to help, it's
huge man.
It's a huge advantage,especially when you're new,
because you don't know what'swhat.
You don't know left from right,up from down.
So just having other businessowners that have been through
all this BS before that canguide you and tell you what to
(43:54):
do, what not to do, how to do it, so you don't have to learn the
hard way, that is just thebiggest advantage that you can
have as a new roofing businessowner.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
That's huge man.
Yeah, thanks for calling thatout.
We appreciate you being amember.
And yeah, for those of youlistening to this, the Limitless
Roofing Group, we're a grouppurchasing organization, which
means we bring hundreds ofroofing companies together.
We go to suppliers and vendors,we negotiate group deals,
discounts, programs and we passthat along to our members and
(44:28):
it's free to join.
It's kind of like Costco youjoin, you save, and it's that
simple.
At the time of the recording ofthis podcast, there's not even a
fee to join.
We're probably going to changethat pretty soon.
Just because psychologically, Ithink people think, oh, it's
free, it must be some kind of ascam.
So it's like, okay, well, we'llcharge people.
If it gives people more peaceof mind, it's free to join.
But then, if you want it,that's to get all the buying
(44:51):
power, the discounts programswith Beacon, srs, our fleet
program with discount tires, ourdiscounts on general liability
insurance and everything inbetween.
But if you want to join thecommunity and network and share
best practices with guys likeLuis and other members, that is
a paid experience.
But we want to make sure theROI is solid.
(45:11):
Going back to what Luis said,it's not free, but we think that
if you invest in yourself andinvest your company, it could be
the biggest turning point inyour journey, because you can
finally ask questions and getfeedback on your pressing
challenges and grow your companywith a team of owners and not
make those decisions on your own.
I really think that's.
The biggest challenge to anybusiness owner is isolation.
(45:34):
I mean, we're surroundingourselves with wise counsel and
I think, my gosh, how did wemake it this far without this
counsel we just received thisweek?
You know, it's just.
You just don't know what youdon't know as a business owner.
So anyway, man, I reallyappreciate that, luis, and thank
you for taking time out of yourbusy schedule to be on the show
(45:56):
.
For those of you listening, Ijust want to challenge you get
into some retail get into someVAs, you'll be glad you did.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
And Luis, thanks for being on the show.
Man, of course, man, thank youfor having me.
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