February 26, 2024 • 40 mins
Ever wonder why some SEO agencies are doubling or even tripling their client list while yours seems stuck in neutral? What are you missing?
In this episode of Pitchbox Link Masters, Jack Roebuck, COO of Digital NRG, talks about his journey and the key operational tactics behind Digital NRG's impressive growth from 30 to 140 clients.
Listen to the full episode to learn:
✅ How to Foster a Growth-Oriented Team Structure
✅ How to Prioritize Client-Centric Strategies for Retention and Growth
✅ Multifaceted Link Building Strategies for Diverse Clientele
✅ Strategies for Scaling Link Building Efforts
✅ The Value of Link Building
✅ Pricing Models for Link Building Services
✅ How to Leveraging technology to streamline operations
✅ Key Factors in Running a Successful Agency
…and so much more.
Are you ready to 'break the ceiling' and scale your agency?
Full show notes:
https://pitchbox.com/link-masters/how-to-scale-an-seo-agency-to-140-clients/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jack Roebuck (00:00):
So I first joined as, um, an SEO exec
(00:02):
working with our clients.
Um, so we had a team ofthree then, um, and had
conversations with Neil aroundthe aspirations to grow.
Some of the new businessthat we were winning.
So within about six months,then started managing the team.
Um, then sort of fast forwardtwo years, we had a team of,
uh, 11, now it's a team of 12,got about 140 clients right now.
(00:23):
So we have gone from about30, 40 when I first joined
up to about 140 now.
Um, and with some plansto, to grow further.
Sarah Nuttycombe (00:31):
Well, thanks everyone for
joining us again today.
I'm very excited to bejoined by today's guests.
We have Jack Roebuck,he's chief operating
officer of Digital NRG.
So Digital NRG, for thosewho don't know, they're a
collaborative, fully integrated,award winning agency, helping
businesses through a range ofdigital marketing channels.
Jack's here to share his story.
(00:51):
And Journey into SEO.
So Jack, thank you so muchfor joining us here today.
Awesome.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Looking forward to it.
Yeah.
Very excited to have you on.
So if I understandcorrectly, you're joining
from Bristol, correct?
Jack Roebuck (01:03):
Yeah.
Bristol UK.
We are based in North Bristol.
Um, a lot of good agencieshere in Bristol, lots
of good SEOs as well.
So a great place to be honest.
Yeah, I mean, it's
Sarah Nuttycombe (01:14):
quite an artsy town, isn't it?
Like I've, I've visitedyears ago, but I loved it.
It's got such abuzzing, vibrant,
independent scene, right?
Jack Roebuc (01:20):
Massively so, yeah.
We've got a really good bunchof people that work here as
well, and just the wider SEOcommunity in and around Bristol.
Really, really goodbunch of guys and girls.
So yeah, really enjoy it here.
Cool.
Sarah Nuttycombe (01:31):
Awesome.
Well, I guess, Speaking ofSEO, we've got a lot to go over
today, um, in terms of SEO andlink building and of course a
little bit of your own story.
So, um, kick me off,tell me about how you
got your start in SEO.
Jack Roebuck (01:44):
Cool.
Yeah.
Good question.
So, um, I was on my universitydegree, um, was doing a bit
of reading, um, just in myfree time starting to sort of.
Delve into the world of SEO.
And then I did a placement year.
Um, and that placement yearwas with Gareth Simpson.
So the founder of Seeker,who also works with Pitchbox.
Um, so that was abouteight years ago now.
(02:07):
And that really sortof opened my eyes up to
the wider world of SEO.
Digital marketingas, as a whole.
So the other channelsthat come with it.
So ever since I had thatplacement year, I just
absolutely addicted toit, which is, um, yeah,
I live and breathe it.
Not just SEO now, I have tosay, I have branched out into
the paid channels as well,and also into web development.
(02:29):
But yeah, that's kindof where it all began.
And then during my finalyear of university, was
approached by Neil, who'sthe founder of Digital NRG.
to join the agency asan SEO exec and sort of
grow the SEO team here.
Um, so we had ateam of three then.
And had conversations withNeil around the aspirations
to grow some of the newbusiness that we were winning.
(02:51):
So, within about 6 months,then started managing the team.
Um, then sort of fast forward2 years, we had a team of, uh,
11, now up to a team of 12.
Got about 140 clients rightnow, so we have gone from about
30, 40 when I first joined.
Up to about 140 now,um, and with some plans
to, to grow further.
So I think for me, the naturalprogression was from SEO to,
(03:14):
to managing the SEO team.
So the processes, all of thesort of streamlining of how
we run as a department, whichis where Pitchbox comes in.
Um, and then fast forwardanother two years.
As that knowledge sort ofdeveloped, I started to
get involved with otherchannels, definitely paid
social and paid search, theimpact and sort of how those
channels work with SEO.
(03:35):
And then that led me to somemore account management, um,
sort of based activities withsome of our larger clients.
Um, and then throughout lockdownwas exposed to more agency,
top level, how we run, how weoperate, and then, yeah, and
in the, uh, the COO role now.
Okay.
Sarah Nuttycombe (03:53):
Okay.
So you've kind of hadyour hand and, and.
A little bit ofeverything it sounds like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I'm curious.
So I, um, just from priorconversations to you guys and,
and picking up a little biton you and in my research, it
really seemed like you guys had,um, this grassroots beginning,
like, you guys, um, have reallygrown a lot over the years.
(04:14):
And I'm curious if you couldpaint me a picture of that, um,
what that looked like and maybehow kind of really starting, um.
Thank you.
from that grassrootsposition has impacted
your culture and the waythat you do things today.
Yeah,
Jack Roebuck (04:27):
massively so.
So, um, I remember on myfirst day, we were in a
boardroom, no differentto the size I'm in now.
Um, and we had six of us inthat office, um, two of which
are still here today, um, andpretty integrated in terms of
the actual size of the agencyand day to day running of it.
One of which, um, hassort of gone on a similar
progression to me.
So, he was an exec hired inas a SEO exec, then branched
(04:52):
out into paid social.
As we got bigger from a paidsocial point of view and
had more and more clients,we won some business from
UCAS, um, some really bigclients here in the UK.
He then grew that side ofthings, focused in paid.
And now he heads up the accountservices team and he's the
account service director.
He and myself have been rightat the start and through the
(05:12):
growth, the clients that we'vewon and helped to build, um,
sort of the processes andeverything that comes with that
increase in clients and also.
Increase in averagevalue order as well.
The clients that we were workingwith when I first joined, versus
where we are now, a lot moredemanding, um, a lot more KPI
focused, and with that, you needto refine the processes you're
doing, how you report, howwe communicate, how we ensure
(05:35):
standards across one exec toanother exec is the same, um,
and yeah, big focus on that, um,essentially from growing within.
Um, we've also then,sort of since doing that,
recruited externally aswell for some key, um, areas
sort of like paid media.
Heads of departments to bringin their knowledge as well.
So it's not justfrom Joe and myself.
It's also external knowledgebringing into the agency too.
Sarah Nuttycombe (05:58):
Yeah.
I'm glad that you broughtthat up because, you
know, that was somethingI wanted to ask you about.
I understand that youguys really expanded your
client base, but like yousaid, there's also kind of.
Bigger, uh, they'vejust got a different
subset of needs, right?
Um, so I do want to ask youabout that in a bit, but I think
before I get there, I want tounderstand, you know, you guys
are winning these great clients,um, you're, you're scaling in
(06:20):
the process, but how do youfeel like you cater uniquely to
your client's needs, um, thatmaybe sets you apart from other
Jack Roebuck (06:28):
agencies?
Oh yeah, good question.
We, we do actually get askedthat a lot in pitches as well.
And I think the biggest thing Isort of say to most clients is.
The whole partnershipside of things.
So although they may come onfor SEO, paid social, paid
search, if they have questionsaround how they should set up
their CRM, or how they shouldintegrate XYZ with their
wider marketing or business,um, sort of operations,
(06:49):
we're there for that.
So when you have a look at someof the reviews that we've got
as an agency, and also personalreviews on LinkedIn for.
Some of the people in theagency, it's always that it's
that we go above and beyondfor clients, not just from what
they pay us for a step further.
So SEO, um, as we know, somepeople do understand it.
Some clients don't, and it'sbridging that gap of how that
(07:12):
then impacts their wider team.
So if let's say we start rankingfor some really great keywords,
we're driving a lot of leadsthrough, but then we see that
the actual conversion rate forthe business is not very good.
We go back and lookat search intent.
We also then work withtheir sales teams.
So are the type of leads comingin being dealt the right way?
Are they going through to theright people through contact
(07:33):
forms, phones, and kind ofmore consultants in that sense.
And that's where we quite earlyon set the hierarchy in terms
of any account that comes onhas a dedicated account manager
who does that sort of stuff.
And then the deliveryteam, so an SEO exec, paid
social, paid media exec.
Then owns that channel sothat the account manager can
really have those top levelconversations, listen to what
(07:55):
the delivery team is saying,apply that to the client,
and then present that backto them, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it
Sarah Nuttycombe (08:02):
does.
Um, I mean, it's, it'sinteresting because it sounds
like you guys, it's veryeasy to say we provide this
service, we solve this problem.
But it sounds like youguys are digging deeper.
When something's notworking, you're going
to go back and find it.
You're going togo make it better.
So of course, everyonewants their problems solved
in the best way possible.
It makes sense thatpeople are kind of
signing on and partneringwith you, as you said.
(08:22):
Um.
Now, I, I, I think I pulled thisquote from your site because
it, it stuck out to me and Ireally liked it and I wanted
to get your take on this, butI saw it said somewhere it's
like, uh, everyone's doingSEO, but it doesn't mean that
everyone's doing it well.
And I wanted to knowwhat that meant to
Jack Roebuck (08:37):
you.
So I think firstly, from mypoint of view, we obviously
get, um, reports from otheragencies, other SEOs out
there, and it's not to saywhat, what other agencies or
other SEOs do isn't right.
Every agency has their ownsort of style, but I think the
biggest part that we sometimessee people miss is that
you get lost in the detail.
(08:57):
We're so held up on howwe've acquired links,
the process to do that.
Sometimes people forget,how do you tie that
back to the customer?
So one of the big things wesort of have as one of our core
values is what's in it for them.
So rather than tackling ascenario saying what's in
it for us as an SEO exec.
How do we tie in allof that work that we've
done to what's in it forthem, for the customer?
(09:18):
And I think that really isone of the biggest things,
because if you go right tothe start of any SEO campaign,
keyword research is probablythe first, second, third
task that needs to be done.
If you get that keyword researchwrong and you start ranking
for the wrong keywords withthe wrong search of intent,
driving people the wrong sortof traffic, And you haven't
had that wider conversationwith the client around business
(09:39):
objectives, how it all tiesinto the what's in it for them,
and are just focused on thiskeyword because it's got good
search volume, low competition,looks like it could be good.
If you don't have thatconversation to tie it back
to business news, businessobjectives for the client,
you could spend three to sixmonths working on this keyword
that, yes, has loads of search.
That won't actually driveto any conversions through
(10:00):
the site, so that's usually,so when we say that, that's
kind of what we mean by that.
Sarah Nuttycombe (10:07):
Okay, yeah.
Um, it's interesting you kindof laying out your process
and how you would tackle that.
Um, I understand there's.
A lot of pieces to thepuzzle and there's a lot of
people involved with that andI'm so curious to hear how
you guys approach buildinga team to sort of manage
every part of that process.
(10:27):
Like, did you find overthe years that maybe there
was a little bit of like asecret sauce to this is the
right team structure forthings like link building?
Jack Roebuck (10:36):
Yes, I think, um.
One thing we're actuallycurrently reviewing at the
moment is how we structurethat within the SEO team.
So historically, the way we'vedone this is average value
order for us as an agency isabout 15 to 20 hours per client.
Um, so with that, sometimeswe are limited to the
amount of time that.
Each individual could thenoutsource to another exec
(10:57):
around how much deliverytime they have for outreach.
So we very much empowereach exec to do all areas
of outreach, what we'veactually learned through
using Pitchbox and just teamfeedback and how we structure
things moving forward.
is that empowering certainteam members for different
tasks within outreachis much more beneficial.
Firstly, from a productivitypoint of view, but also an
(11:19):
enjoyment point of view forthe exec doing the work.
So we're really restructuringit in terms of those who
enjoy the prospecting sideand pitching the ideas.
And then also those who thencreate the content, create
the sort of infographics,the studies, all of that.
So that there's twodistinct sort of paths.
So just to reiterateand summarize what
I'm saying there is.
(11:39):
The first part for the outreachside of things from us is
definitely the prospecting andthat actual negotiation with
an editor or whoever it may be.
And then the secondstage is obviously that
production, so we're kindof splitting out those
responsibilities to execs now.
Sarah Nuttycombe (11:54):
I'm just, I'm wondering if you
guys have a way of workingtogether when things come up?
I mean, you're obviouslythinking about your team
members and going, Okay, it'sprobably a bit more enjoyable
for you guys to work on it inthis context, in this context.
We want this to be.
A good process, but youknow, when things go wrong
and challenges come up, howdo you guys kind of band
(12:15):
together to go, okay, hatson, let's figure this one out.
The good
Jack Roebuck (12:19):
thing is there's a lot of support within D& ID.
So we've got kind of a hierarchywithin the SEO team that is.
Everyone has, um, kind of liketheir line manager, but then
there's also people dedicatedto certain specialisms.
So we have one who reallyheads up the strategy side
for clients, one who isfrom a standards point of
view and one from outreach.
So if, let's say a problemarose where we spent two
(12:41):
hours prospecting, finding andpitching ideas, then another
hour and a half creating it.
And then we get to finalstage and the editor
said they don't like it.
We then share that amongstthe team with the outreach
lead who heads up that theywould then bring their sort
of thought process to it.
How can we tackle it?
We've also got a good network,which is what Pitchbox has
helped us to build, but anetwork of sites that we know
(13:03):
we have worked with in the past,got a good relationship with.
So we'd likely, if it doesn'twork with that site, for
instance, we then get in touchwith one that we have worked
with in the past, as long as wehaven't already got a link from
them, then, yeah, why wouldn'twe do something like that?
So very much work with ourpeers, share the sort of
problems that we have, andwe have some weekly and also
(13:24):
bi weekly and then monthlysessions around trouble
accounts or trouble issuesthat people are having with
the team in the boardroom.
So everybody bringsany issues they've got.
And it's kind of just a, um,yeah, everybody just works
through the ideas together,gets different points of view
and then apply that back totheir, uh, their account.
Sarah Nuttycombe (13:42):
Yeah.
When you talk about that,I see this visual of,
um, like a, like a relay.
You guys are handing off thebaton to each person and,
you know, without one personin that part of the race.
You're not making it tothe finish line, right?
Because
Jack Roebuck (13:55):
it can be, it can be tough when that happens
because you yourself, you'reso proud of the work you put
into it, secured a really goodlink, got excited about it,
and then the editor says no.
Um, but to have the reassuranceknowing that you can go to
someone else in the team,see how they would tackle it.
Um, and it's very much nota siloed thing, you're in
it together with the widerteam to help fix that issue.
(14:16):
Um.
Sarah Nuttycombe (14:17):
So I do want to focus a little bit on the
links, links aspect, because,you know, we're, um, we're
excited to be talking to agencyowners and talking about how.
Every single agency, everysingle person attacks SEO and
link building differently.
So I've got a couple likestandardized questions that I've
been talking to everyone about.
(14:38):
So I wanted to ask you inyour expert opinion on this.
So, um, my first oneis, is how do you get
links for your clients?
Jack Roebuck (14:46):
Um, so as I say, we've got quite
a range of clients.
Our average value order, asI said, is around 15 to 20
hours, but we have some thatgo up to 60, 70 hours as well.
So because of that, we havesort of differing, um, tiers
that we then offer to clients.
So right at the base level,so start at the base and
then work the way up.
So we've got just your localsort of niche directory level.
(15:07):
Um, then we would start towork through outreach and more
advanced operators that wewould want to be working with.
One thing that Pitchbox isreally good for is the advanced
operator campaign within whenyou're actually building,
um, your prospecting list.
When we want to get intomore targeted content.
That's when we would actuallyspend a lot of time manually
identifying which sites dowe really want to work with.
(15:30):
Um, maybe have a look at somecompetitor link building, um, so
to see what links of competitorsgot that we can then acquire.
We'd also then potentiallylook at unlinked brand
mentions as well.
That's quite a good way of,um, getting a load of links
through sites that alreadymentioned the client, but
haven't actually linked through.
And then obviously the beautywith Pitchbox is you can
just upload that as a CSV.
(15:50):
Straight into your prospectinglist and then run that through
the email automation as well.
Um, we're starting to workwith Harrow a little bit more.
I mean we've used thaton and off for the eight
years I've been in.
SEO Harrow can be great, butalso for an agency of our size.
We very much know our sweetspot with clients and it
is that 15 to 20 hour markHarrow, you can end up wasting.
(16:11):
Not so much wasting, buttime can go quite easily.
It's a lot of time.
Time can really goquite easily on Harrow.
And if you spend four orfive hours and you go to 10
requests that have come through,there's no guarantee there.
Um, and one of the issueswe always have with outreach
for that level of client ishow do you justify it when...
You spend this much time,but there's no guarantee
(16:32):
sometimes, um, with sortof acquiring a link.
And that's where one of thereasons why we actually went
for Pitchbox was to help usstreamline that and improve
our win rate, essentially.
Okay.
Sarah Nuttycombe (16:44):
Okay.
You just named a bunch ofdifferent ways that you
guys were, were buildinglinks, but I'm curious,
do you have a favorite
Jack Roebuck (16:50):
tactic?
Yeah, I think for me, um,changing people's perception of
what link building is, um, and.
A lot of the time peoplebuild it solely for that
link, but what we are doingwith some of our insurance
based clients is targetingsites that we know get a good
amount of traffic to them.
They're communities thatwe can actually tap into.
So, yes, we're gettinga link at the end of it,
(17:13):
which is great, but we'realso then getting some good
referral traffic to the site.
And also getting some goodbrand awareness because it's
a niche that's very relevant.
As a result of this, we'vegot to rank one within two
months, um, built quite afew decent links for the
main keyword for this client.
Um, and just seeing theimpact that that then has had.
Not just from an SEO point ofview, but this has also then
(17:35):
created an audience for us toremarket to on paid social.
So, I guess the point I'mmaking there is, from my point
of view for link building is,the best way to do it is, wait,
let me just rephrase this one.
Um, in terms of the best linkbuilding approach for me,
it's one that encompassesnot just SEO benefit.
(17:55):
But benefit from otherchannels, um, and bring in
the wider piece together.
Sarah Nuttycombe (18:00):
Absolutely.
Um, it's interesting to hearhow you guys, I like that
specific example of how youwin with one of your clients.
Um, but...
Let's think about thingsin terms of scale.
So, I mean, if you'retrying to, um, pick up
links in large numbers, whatdo you think is the most
effective way to do that?
Cool.
Jack Roebuck (18:19):
Um, so definitely the advanced operator side of
things is a very quick way toget a lot of prospecting done.
You get decent links, uh, thatwill come through as prospect.
And then as long as youhave some good filters set
up, so we, um, integrate.
through Pitchbox intoAhrefs so that we can set
up our predefined filters.
And then that way italready does some of the
automatic filtering for us.
(18:41):
Um, so definitely the advancedoperator side of things.
But also, um, as I said earlier,the unlinked brand mentions,
because it's a really goodway of just finding sites that
have already mentioned you.
All you need to do is get intouch with them and ask them
to specify a link as well.
So quite a quick way.
So definitely the advancedoperator side of things.
And then also unlinkedbrand mentions.
(19:02):
Okay,
Sarah Nuttycombe (19:03):
cool.
Um, I like this question.
So what do you think is themost important quality of
Jack Roebuck (19:08):
a good link?
Good question.
So there's a loadof factors to this.
Um, as I hope it's comingacross my opinion on outreach
is definitely changed from whereit was when I first started.
So if you'd asked me that whenI started, it would have been
do follow and it would purelybeen down to domain metrics.
But now, it's very much, yes,they are good metrics to have,
you need to make sure thatyou've got good DR, it's either,
(19:29):
it falls in line with sort ofthe link profile you want to be
building, so how many do followsdo you have that's no follows,
that's sponsored, but alsonow, um, and across the agency,
we're trying to push makingsure that it's an actual site
that has actual traffic to it.
Um, and also that there's anengaged audience as well, so
that you can benefit from thatreferral traffic and a lot
(19:49):
more than just the link itself.
So, trying to change people'sperception on link building,
it doesn't just need to begetting it live on a load of
sites, it's actually targeted.
It's a decent link from adomain point of view, but
then also these other metricsaround referral traffic and,
and that side of things too.
Sarah Nuttycombe (20:07):
Okay, cool.
Um, in a similar vein, youknow, I, I would say this
question is a, like a hot takequestion, but do you think
link building is overrated,underrated or fairly rated?
Jack Roebuck (20:19):
I would say fairly rated.
I think people still realizethat links have a place.
Within SEO, um, there'salways videos, blogs that
you'll see online saying linkbuilding is dead, X, Y, Z,
but the amount of sites thatwe work with, we've got 140
clients for a lot of them.
We follow a similarprocess to building links.
And we always know that assoon as you've got your on
(20:40):
site in a good place, there'sno technical issues, you've
got well optimized landingpages, then you move on to the
link building side of things.
As long as you can get somedecent peer links that are back
through to your relevant landingpage, obviously you've worked
on your anchor text splits.
I personally see it asit's going to be something
that's going to be aroundfor many years to come.
(21:00):
And I also think people arestarting to move into the same
mindset of myself and the agencythat link building isn't just
from a links point of view.
It's more into thatdigital PR space
Sarah Nuttycombe (21:11):
now.
Absolutely.
I think that's afantastic answer.
And you're right.
Um, I, I think a lot of what youjust said, it reflects a mental
shift in the space, if you will.
Um, So, you know, you offerlink building as a service.
How do you charge for it?
So is it per link, monthlyretainer, or just part
of larger SEO packages?
So
Jack Roebuck (21:30):
this is again, something that's quite relevant
in terms of how we operateas an agency because we're
currently reviewing this.
So at the moment itis a monthly retainer.
So a client is on for Xamount of money with us.
We would then assign a percentof that to budget for acquiring
links, but then also assign timeout of that budget to the actual
(21:51):
prospecting, the automation,the creating the content.
So, one thing we're potentiallylooking at moving forwards is.
Similar to how we run, um,our paid media offering and
almost having a, an amountof spend and then charging a
sort of management fee thatcovers that and then separating
that out from the overall SEO
Sarah Nuttycombe (22:12):
budget.
I guess changing gears alittle bit, uh, the time and
place, if you could paint me apicture of when you guys were
first looking for Pitchbox.
Um.
How were you, you know,were you maybe struggling to
solve some particular clientproblems at the time or was
it maybe just a struggle of,we just need to, to do link
building a bit differently?
Like what, what wasgoing on for you guys
Jack Roebuck (22:33):
at the time?
Yes, I think, um, it was verymanual, the process that we
had set up before Pitchbox.
So there was a lot ofGoogle sheets, um, a lot
of Gmail accounts, a lotof mail mergers happening.
Um, and the amount of timeas we were growing and
winning a lot of new clients.
The execs were then spendingon this was so much time was
just spent in the admin sideof putting it into sheets
(22:55):
then writing the emails andpartly why we wanted to to
reach out to Pitchbox and Ithink we had a look, um, had
a look at both of the tools.
Yeah, for us it was reallyto solve that manual
element and just improve.
Sort of productivity whenit comes to outreach.
We had about fouror five SEO execs.
(23:15):
I probably say between SEOclients and the types of
clients that we were startingto win would just get into
that point where they knewof link building, they knew
of outreach, and we almostneeded something that would.
Firstly, streamline theprocess, but help us ensure
that we're able to offer linkscontinually at a good level
to our clients, because theSEO that we do, we're very
(23:36):
not much, not a specialist SEOagency, but we do cover all
areas and we've got technicalspecialists, onsite specialists,
and outreach was an area wherewe needed to, to upscale.
We had a couple of calls withAlex and he just took us through
the platform in detail, reallyshowed us some of the ways
that agencies were using it.
The upskill, because at theend of the day, also, this
(23:57):
is a good upskilling toolfor execs in the agency, how
to automate outreach, how totake it to the next level.
We have some junior memberswho've been working in
SEO for about a year, yearand a half, already really
upskilled on Pitchboxbecause it's very intuitive.
You've got a real clearprocess of the prospecting,
then actually the negotiationstage, and then right the way
(24:17):
through to the, if you've wonit or not, and you can see
quite easily from a managementpoint of view as well.
How's the team performing?
Who do we need tohelp, um, upskill?
Maybe somebody's doinga lot of prospecting but
struggling to win, um, links.
What do we do there?
That then forms part of theone to one with that person,
and then part of theirprofessional development plan.
So, although we're speakingquite a lot about client impact,
(24:41):
there's actually quite a lotof, um, development for execs
and the wider SEO team thatcame through using Pitchbox too.
I'd love
Sarah Nuttycombe (24:48):
to know, how did that impact
your, your client base or.
The way that you guys wereable to deliver for them.
I don't know if there's anymaybe data in particular
that you know, off the topof your head that goes,
yeah, this is our numberswent from this to this.
Um, Yeah,
Jack Roebuck (25:05):
no.
So I think definitely frommy point of view, firstly,
um, it was the type ofclients that we were winning
and then also retaining.
So.
Our retention rate for SEOclients is 97 percent at the
moment, um, heavily impactedalso by, I, I believe the sort
of standard that we've now setfor our link building efforts.
Um, so that's one angle isthe retention that that's
(25:27):
then created for, um, OurSEO team and the clients
that we've got there, um, interms of the second angle,
obviously the streamlinednature of running it.
one thing that's really helpedis the amount of links that
go live in any given month.
We then create.
a master sheet.
So prior to being withPitchbox, we didn't really
(25:48):
have any relationship.
We had a couple ofrelationships with some key
players, but not massive.
We are an agency thatspecializes in a couple
of niches as well.
So insurance being one ofthem, appliance retailers
being another, and there'squite a few other ones that
we started to specialize in.
As a result of using Pitchbox,we've then got a master sheet
of what we've built over thepast sort of 12 to 24 months
(26:10):
that we've been tracking this,that we would classify as got a
decent relationship with them,and should we have a client that
comes on in a similar niche, orwe're looking to get on board.
XYZ.
We can then go back to thatlist and that come about
because of the speed at whichwe're able to prospect within
Pitchbox, but then alsohave the email conversations
(26:31):
and follow all of that up.
And then obviously exportthe data into just the Google
sheet so that we've got thatas an asset for new clients,
but also for current clients.
So we were talking about earlieraround, if you go through
the whole process of findingdecent sites, then pitching the
ideas, writing the content, butthen not actually going live,
we then refer to this list.
Does that fallinto this criteria?
(26:52):
Yes, it's not a great fit.
Let's tweak the article a littlebit and then send it across.
Sarah Nuttycombe (26:55):
so I think you were alluding to this a
little bit and this circlesback to the point that you
were making before that, youknow, so time and place you
were talking, we're goingfrom 60 to 70 clients a few
years ago, you're now at
Jack Roebuck (27:08):
140 140.
Sarah Nuttycombe (27:11):
Okay.
A massive, a massive change.
We're more thandoubling the clientele.
And you mentioned that theclients you're working with,
they're bigger, they're moreinternational, they've got
really ambitious growth plans.
To me, I, I just would love toknow what impact that has had
on digital energy and how do youtackle your clients challenges
(27:33):
when they are all of a suddenat this kind of bigger scale
and everything's quite differentthan it was a few years ago.
Um, I guess in a way I'masking, how do you swim with
that tide and still manage toscale yourselves successfully,
operate successfully?
Yes.
Jack Roebuck (27:48):
I think, um, firstly, the thing I've
noticed since being involvedin the account manager
for some of those biggerclients, It's the free reign
that they also give to you.
They know that they're hiring usin as experts in a given field.
So whether it's SEO, whetherit's paid social, whether
it's paid search, and wevery much get empowerment.
So we will set KPIs with theclients around what we need
(28:08):
to achieve each quarter.
We've then got our quarterlystrategies that reflect.
That's essentiallytheir objectives.
How are we going to achievethem for each channel?
But I think the thing thathas really stood out is just
having top level conversationswith them around what they are
trying to achieve and how thatfilters through to each channel.
So while we're talkingspecifically about SEO on this
call, there's still a lot thatgoes on from a paid search
(28:31):
and a paid social point ofview with these conversations
with those clients.
And I think it's justmaking sure that.
Me as an account manager orsomeone else as an account
manager, brings all of thatto the table and ties it
back into what this businessis trying to achieve and
doesn't get lost in the data.
Sarah Nuttycombe (28:47):
On that note, do you have any
examples, maybe anecdotes oftransformation that you've
been able to bring to a client?
Yeah.
Jack Roebuck (28:54):
So, um, I think a good example is
the, um, Japanese car importclient that I mentioned.
So.
As I mentioned earlier on, wework with a lot of insurance
brokers across the UK.
We're part of some pretty good,um, partnerships with those.
So for us, this cameup as a really good
opportunity for the client.
Um, we're up against somepretty big players in the UK.
You have aggregators thatreally do have sole SEO teams
(29:18):
building a lot of links tothese sorts of landing pages.
So from our point of view,we create a landing page
fully optimized from anonsite point of view.
FAQ schema was implemented,really good landing page,
really good sort of load time.
Made sure thatthat was all fine.
Then we moved on to the linkbuilding side, and this was
where, going back to my firstfew points around what makes
a good link to me, we tacklenot just links from a good DR
(29:42):
and obviously good authoritypoint of view, but also based
on the relevancy and alsothe traffic and Actual brand
awareness that we'd get throughbeing with these partnerships,
um, and getting links back.
So off the back of that,we've then had links come
through for this client.
We're now ranking Rank 1.
But also, the client's beeninvited to have a stall
(30:02):
at their bi yearly meetup.
So they meet upevery 6 months or so.
So...
Off the back of our SEOactivity, we've actually created
a whole other avenue for theclient to get involved in.
Um, so yeah, I'dsort of say that.
Yeah, that's an
Sarah Nuttycom (30:15):
awesome example.
I mean, just in light ofeverything you just told
me, what does it mean toyou personally to see that
transformation, see that impact,see those, the new avenues
Jack Roebuck (30:25):
being formed?
I think for me, um, thebiggest thing is when I'm on
the client calls, then I cansay directly that the link
building efforts that we'veachieved have helped us rank
position one for this keyword.
As a result of that, we've thenseen this many conversions.
This has actually then led tothis many converted business,
your end, because we've gotaccess to the CRM and we
(30:45):
can tie the two together.
That is what I absolutelylove when we can 100%, maybe
not 100%, 90 percent say thatthat has come from the link
building activity we havedone that has attributed to
the reason we rank there.
And then say how that'sactually generated business
for our clients, as opposedto just saying, we're now
ranking well, but we don'tknow that other part of the
puzzle, making sure that.
(31:08):
Ranking and then traffic andthen also converting is all
happening, if that makes sense.
Yeah,
Sarah Nuttycombe (31:13):
absolutely.
Um, I mean, a related questionand perhaps it's the same
answer, maybe not, but what getsyou out of bed every morning
to show up, um, at your job?
To
Jack Roebuck (31:23):
this agency, I think for me, I absolutely love
the variety of agency work.
So I think if I was inhouse, I'd get bored
pretty, really quickly.
We've got such avariety of clients.
I mean, I myself work with, uh,15 clients that I look after
and involved in, but obviouslybeing in the position I'm
in, I get exposure to all theclients we work with, so that
presents different problems.
(31:44):
We have to problemsolve and fix them.
Um, and I think alsothe pace at which.
The digital marketing industry,not just SEO, but as a whole,
you constantly have to beon the top of your game.
You could be on a clientcall, and they may have an
internal digital marketingmanager, or marketing exec,
or whoever that may be.
And just making sure that you'reat the top of your game, so
that if they ask questions, orscrutinize data, or ask X, Y,
(32:07):
Z, you're then ready to do that.
So I think what getsme out of bed is that
drive to still learn.
I still have the same drive.
As when I first got intoSEO, if not more now, because
I realized how much is outthere across other channels
as well, not just SEO.
Sarah Nuttycombe (32:23):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, that,that relates to my next
question because you'retalking about, um.
How you still have tokeep on top of things.
There's still so much to learn.
And so I'd love to know fromyour perspective, what do you
think it's going to take tostay ahead in SEO in the future?
Jack Roebuck (32:38):
Good question.
I think one good thing toalways do is create trial sites.
So one thing I see onYouTube, I think Matt Diggity
does it, a couple of otherguys do is with ChatGBT.
For instance, just becauseit's quite a hot topic, they're
creating sites that are purelybuilt through content from
ChatGVT, seeing how far they canpush it to get rankings before
(33:00):
they sort of get penalized.
Now, obviously, you wouldnever do that for a client,
but it's a really cool wayof trialing things to see
how far you can push thingsbefore stuff like that happens.
And it's always goodto have trial sites.
I've got some myself, a coupleof people in the office do, and
you would try things that are alittle bit more out there that
you wouldn't do on client sites.
Thank you.
But you can then bringthat back in and take
(33:22):
learnings from that as well.
So I think that's one way,definitely trialing things.
And then I think secondly islearning from your peers, so...
For me, being in an agencyof this size, everybody
brings their own skill setand has their specialisms.
So we have weekly, uh,so every Monday morning,
we have these performanceand progress meetings
within every single team.
Um, stopping in and listeningto those, seeing what each
(33:43):
team's working on, make surethat I'm up to date on SEO,
paid social, paid search,web, what's happening there.
And for those that aren'tfortunate enough to be in an
agency where there's that sortof level of skill set, I do just
think making sure you're activewithin LinkedIn communities,
Facebook communities, Reddit,it's a really good place
as well, and just makingsure that you, if you feel
(34:03):
yourself falling into thatsort of complacency, challenge
yourself, try something new,pick up a new channel to
learn, there's loads of Googlecourses, never lose that drive
to constantly want to better
Sarah Nuttycombe (34:14):
yourself.
Are you able to sort oftake a step back and reflect
on who you were when youfirst started at Digital NRG
versus who you are today?
How do you think thatthat kind of trajectory of
being in this agency hasimpacted you as a person?
Jack Roebuck (34:31):
Would you say you're any different?
Would I say I'm any different?
Uh, good question.
I think I've stillmanaged to keep that
drive and hunger to learn.
I think I've definitely matured.
Through having to, to be in theposition I am now and obviously
through covid and everything,there have been some, some
tough times to make some tougherdecisions and I think it's
definitely helped me progressfrom a business management
(34:55):
point of view outside of SEOinto running an agency and
everything that comes with that.
Again, we're talkingabout SEO here, but it's
obviously the HR element.
There's the recruitment, there'sfinancing, there's everything
that comes with it, and I thinkfor me, been very lucky to.
Be exposed to that.
Um, and also very lucky to havethe support from Neil and the
guys that own the agency tosort of let that happen as well.
(35:18):
Just
Sarah Nuttycombe (35:19):
jumping in on something you just said there.
Um, you get to have this highlevel look of what it takes
to operate an agency now.
Um, do you?
Would you say there's a secretsauce to making an agency run?
Jack Roebuck (35:32):
Um, I think definitely you've got to
focus on the people, whatis going well, what isn't,
making sure that you don'tget tied down too much to the
day to day side of things.
Think top level.
How can I take this person?
What's their potential?
How do we give them, um, growth?
And what does that look like?
Um, so that's definitely one.
Um, but then obviouslythe efficiency.
(35:52):
So if you look at everysingle department, so we as
an agency, we, we track timefor our tasks so that we can
see which client is on budget.
How can we streamline things?
Do we need to have aconversation with the client?
Um, and constantly thinkingabout all of the tools that we
have at our disposal, how canwe use those to make sure that
we are as effective as possible?
(36:14):
What can we give to...
Um, different automationtools to speed things
Sarah Nuttycombe (36:18):
up.
I love that.
I think that's great advice.
I think that's gonna be reallyhandy for people listening in
and wondering like, how do Itake the next step in my agency,
but do it in a way that'sgonna, um, work with my vision
of how I want to scale things.
So that's, that's really cool.
Um, I guess wrapping uphere, I would love to
know what's next for you.
For digital NRG, what do youthink the future is going
(36:40):
to look like for you guys?
Good question.
Jack Roebuck (36:41):
So I think, um, firstly, from our point
of view is we've got somequite, uh, big objectives
for this year and also next.
So we really want to try andgrow the agency by about 50
percent in terms of clients.
So that is not just new clients.
That's.
I mentioned our retentionrates for SEO being at 97%,
but one thing we've reallyrealized is to get the best
(37:03):
results for our clients.
It's for us to then look at thepaid social, the paid search,
the website, and make sureeverything works together.
So, if you're running anSEO campaign, How do we
make sure that the paidsearch campaigns that we're
running tie into that?
How can we supplementthings off the back of that?
Have we then set up remarketingaudiences for the content that
we're pushing on, um, on SEO?
(37:24):
Also from a paid searchpoint of view, have we then
created lookalike audiences?
And just take thatsort of holistic view.
Because sometimes if we arejust running one channel,
the client is not runningit at its full potential.
There's a lot more thatthey could be doing.
So I think that's one ofthe sort of real big aims.
And then also, with that growthwill then come new employees.
(37:46):
So we've onboarded twonew members of staff
in the past two weeks.
Looking to grow by 50 percentin terms of new staff as well.
And then the final onethat we're pushing.
To, to the entire agencyis a hundred percent
upskill in knowledge.
So what does thatactually look like?
That is, if you are in the SEOteam, are you trained to the
level where you can understandC-R-O-P-P-C paid social to
(38:10):
the point where you know theimpact that has on your day job.
So that.
Let's say you're analyzingGoogle Analytics and
you spot X, Y, Z.
If that client isn't on one ofthose channels, you can then
work with the account manager,spot the opportunity, and
then obviously help a clientgrow into a different area.
So, really, a big focuson, on all of those
three things, really.
Amazing.
Sarah Nuttycombe (38:29):
Oh, gosh.
I mean, to say that you'regoing to be busy is, seems
like an understatement.
But in the best way.
Um, I love it.
You guys have, uh, It's, it'san ambitious vision, but, um,
with everything you've laidout, I can see how all those
pieces of the puzzle are goingto be such a powerful thing for
you guys in the years coming.
So, uh, it's very excitingwhat you guys are building.
Jack Roebuck (38:50):
I appreciate it.
And as I say, um, agencylife, definitely for me,
the pace and the speed atwhich we move, I really do
love it and thrive off it.
And I think a lot ofthe other people within
the agency are the same.
And it's quite an interestingconversation, that agency
that's And there's obviouslypros and cons to both.
But I do think agency life,um, for someone really wanting
(39:10):
to, to learn and push anddevelop themselves, there's no
better place for it, really.
Sarah Nuttycombe (39:15):
I love that.
I think I have to endon that note because I
think it's, it's the happyending to the whole story.
Um, well, Jack, I reallyappreciate you coming
on, sharing your story.
I definitely learned a lottoday and it's just so...
Uh, it's an incredibleopportunity to talk to someone
like you and see kind of abird's eye view of what an
incredibly successful agencylooks like and how they operate.
(39:36):
So thank you so muchfor coming on today.
Thank you
Jack Roebuck (39:38):
Sarah for having me.
And, um, yeah, just really justto second some points I made
around Pitchbox and it has beena real big benefit to the way
we operate since using the tool.
So, uh, yeah, I can'trecommend it highly enough.
Sarah Nuttycombe (39:51):
Amazing.
And, um, if anyone, anyonewanted to find you, reach
out to you, talk to you,how can they get in touch
Jack Roebuck (39:56):
with you?
Yeah, the best way to reachout to me is, um, LinkedIn,
um, drop me a, a connectionrequest or feel free to just
email me at Jack at digitalNRG.
co.
uk.
I'm happy to have a conversationabout anything that's sort of
been covered on this or anyquestions that anyone may have.
Sarah Nuttycombe (40:11):
Awesome.
Well, thanks again, Jack,and I'm looking forward
to seeing what you guysget up to in the future.
Thank you.
So I first joined as, um, an SEO exec
(00:02):
working with our clients.
Um, so we had a team ofthree then, um, and had
conversations with Neil aroundthe aspirations to grow.
Some of the new businessthat we were winning.
So within about six months,then started managing the team.
Um, then sort of fast forwardtwo years, we had a team of,
uh, 11, now it's a team of 12,got about 140 clients right now.
(00:23):
So we have gone from about30, 40 when I first joined
up to about 140 now.
Um, and with some plansto, to grow further.
Sarah Nuttycombe (00:31):
Well, thanks everyone for
joining us again today.
I'm very excited to bejoined by today's guests.
We have Jack Roebuck,he's chief operating
officer of Digital NRG.
So Digital NRG, for thosewho don't know, they're a
collaborative, fully integrated,award winning agency, helping
businesses through a range ofdigital marketing channels.
Jack's here to share his story.
(00:51):
And Journey into SEO.
So Jack, thank you so muchfor joining us here today.
Awesome.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Looking forward to it.
Yeah.
Very excited to have you on.
So if I understandcorrectly, you're joining
from Bristol, correct?
Jack Roebuck (01:03):
Yeah.
Bristol UK.
We are based in North Bristol.
Um, a lot of good agencieshere in Bristol, lots
of good SEOs as well.
So a great place to be honest.
Yeah, I mean, it's
Sarah Nuttycombe (01:14):
quite an artsy town, isn't it?
Like I've, I've visitedyears ago, but I loved it.
It's got such abuzzing, vibrant,
independent scene, right?
Jack Roebuc (01:20):
Massively so, yeah.
We've got a really good bunchof people that work here as
well, and just the wider SEOcommunity in and around Bristol.
Really, really goodbunch of guys and girls.
So yeah, really enjoy it here.
Cool.
Sarah Nuttycombe (01:31):
Awesome.
Well, I guess, Speaking ofSEO, we've got a lot to go over
today, um, in terms of SEO andlink building and of course a
little bit of your own story.
So, um, kick me off,tell me about how you
got your start in SEO.
Jack Roebuck (01:44):
Cool.
Yeah.
Good question.
So, um, I was on my universitydegree, um, was doing a bit
of reading, um, just in myfree time starting to sort of.
Delve into the world of SEO.
And then I did a placement year.
Um, and that placement yearwas with Gareth Simpson.
So the founder of Seeker,who also works with Pitchbox.
Um, so that was abouteight years ago now.
(02:07):
And that really sortof opened my eyes up to
the wider world of SEO.
Digital marketingas, as a whole.
So the other channelsthat come with it.
So ever since I had thatplacement year, I just
absolutely addicted toit, which is, um, yeah,
I live and breathe it.
Not just SEO now, I have tosay, I have branched out into
the paid channels as well,and also into web development.
(02:29):
But yeah, that's kindof where it all began.
And then during my finalyear of university, was
approached by Neil, who'sthe founder of Digital NRG.
to join the agency asan SEO exec and sort of
grow the SEO team here.
Um, so we had ateam of three then.
And had conversations withNeil around the aspirations
to grow some of the newbusiness that we were winning.
(02:51):
So, within about 6 months,then started managing the team.
Um, then sort of fast forward2 years, we had a team of, uh,
11, now up to a team of 12.
Got about 140 clients rightnow, so we have gone from about
30, 40 when I first joined.
Up to about 140 now,um, and with some plans
to, to grow further.
So I think for me, the naturalprogression was from SEO to,
(03:14):
to managing the SEO team.
So the processes, all of thesort of streamlining of how
we run as a department, whichis where Pitchbox comes in.
Um, and then fast forwardanother two years.
As that knowledge sort ofdeveloped, I started to
get involved with otherchannels, definitely paid
social and paid search, theimpact and sort of how those
channels work with SEO.
(03:35):
And then that led me to somemore account management, um,
sort of based activities withsome of our larger clients.
Um, and then throughout lockdownwas exposed to more agency,
top level, how we run, how weoperate, and then, yeah, and
in the, uh, the COO role now.
Okay.
Sarah Nuttycombe (03:53):
Okay.
So you've kind of hadyour hand and, and.
A little bit ofeverything it sounds like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I'm curious.
So I, um, just from priorconversations to you guys and,
and picking up a little biton you and in my research, it
really seemed like you guys had,um, this grassroots beginning,
like, you guys, um, have reallygrown a lot over the years.
(04:14):
And I'm curious if you couldpaint me a picture of that, um,
what that looked like and maybehow kind of really starting, um.
Thank you.
from that grassrootsposition has impacted
your culture and the waythat you do things today.
Yeah,
Jack Roebuck (04:27):
massively so.
So, um, I remember on myfirst day, we were in a
boardroom, no differentto the size I'm in now.
Um, and we had six of us inthat office, um, two of which
are still here today, um, andpretty integrated in terms of
the actual size of the agencyand day to day running of it.
One of which, um, hassort of gone on a similar
progression to me.
So, he was an exec hired inas a SEO exec, then branched
(04:52):
out into paid social.
As we got bigger from a paidsocial point of view and
had more and more clients,we won some business from
UCAS, um, some really bigclients here in the UK.
He then grew that side ofthings, focused in paid.
And now he heads up the accountservices team and he's the
account service director.
He and myself have been rightat the start and through the
(05:12):
growth, the clients that we'vewon and helped to build, um,
sort of the processes andeverything that comes with that
increase in clients and also.
Increase in averagevalue order as well.
The clients that we were workingwith when I first joined, versus
where we are now, a lot moredemanding, um, a lot more KPI
focused, and with that, you needto refine the processes you're
doing, how you report, howwe communicate, how we ensure
(05:35):
standards across one exec toanother exec is the same, um,
and yeah, big focus on that, um,essentially from growing within.
Um, we've also then,sort of since doing that,
recruited externally aswell for some key, um, areas
sort of like paid media.
Heads of departments to bringin their knowledge as well.
So it's not justfrom Joe and myself.
It's also external knowledgebringing into the agency too.
Sarah Nuttycombe (05:58):
Yeah.
I'm glad that you broughtthat up because, you
know, that was somethingI wanted to ask you about.
I understand that youguys really expanded your
client base, but like yousaid, there's also kind of.
Bigger, uh, they'vejust got a different
subset of needs, right?
Um, so I do want to ask youabout that in a bit, but I think
before I get there, I want tounderstand, you know, you guys
are winning these great clients,um, you're, you're scaling in
(06:20):
the process, but how do youfeel like you cater uniquely to
your client's needs, um, thatmaybe sets you apart from other
Jack Roebuck (06:28):
agencies?
Oh yeah, good question.
We, we do actually get askedthat a lot in pitches as well.
And I think the biggest thing Isort of say to most clients is.
The whole partnershipside of things.
So although they may come onfor SEO, paid social, paid
search, if they have questionsaround how they should set up
their CRM, or how they shouldintegrate XYZ with their
wider marketing or business,um, sort of operations,
(06:49):
we're there for that.
So when you have a look at someof the reviews that we've got
as an agency, and also personalreviews on LinkedIn for.
Some of the people in theagency, it's always that it's
that we go above and beyondfor clients, not just from what
they pay us for a step further.
So SEO, um, as we know, somepeople do understand it.
Some clients don't, and it'sbridging that gap of how that
(07:12):
then impacts their wider team.
So if let's say we start rankingfor some really great keywords,
we're driving a lot of leadsthrough, but then we see that
the actual conversion rate forthe business is not very good.
We go back and lookat search intent.
We also then work withtheir sales teams.
So are the type of leads comingin being dealt the right way?
Are they going through to theright people through contact
(07:33):
forms, phones, and kind ofmore consultants in that sense.
And that's where we quite earlyon set the hierarchy in terms
of any account that comes onhas a dedicated account manager
who does that sort of stuff.
And then the deliveryteam, so an SEO exec, paid
social, paid media exec.
Then owns that channel sothat the account manager can
really have those top levelconversations, listen to what
(07:55):
the delivery team is saying,apply that to the client,
and then present that backto them, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it
Sarah Nuttycombe (08:02):
does.
Um, I mean, it's, it'sinteresting because it sounds
like you guys, it's veryeasy to say we provide this
service, we solve this problem.
But it sounds like youguys are digging deeper.
When something's notworking, you're going
to go back and find it.
You're going togo make it better.
So of course, everyonewants their problems solved
in the best way possible.
It makes sense thatpeople are kind of
signing on and partneringwith you, as you said.
(08:22):
Um.
Now, I, I, I think I pulled thisquote from your site because
it, it stuck out to me and Ireally liked it and I wanted
to get your take on this, butI saw it said somewhere it's
like, uh, everyone's doingSEO, but it doesn't mean that
everyone's doing it well.
And I wanted to knowwhat that meant to
Jack Roebuck (08:37):
you.
So I think firstly, from mypoint of view, we obviously
get, um, reports from otheragencies, other SEOs out
there, and it's not to saywhat, what other agencies or
other SEOs do isn't right.
Every agency has their ownsort of style, but I think the
biggest part that we sometimessee people miss is that
you get lost in the detail.
(08:57):
We're so held up on howwe've acquired links,
the process to do that.
Sometimes people forget,how do you tie that
back to the customer?
So one of the big things wesort of have as one of our core
values is what's in it for them.
So rather than tackling ascenario saying what's in
it for us as an SEO exec.
How do we tie in allof that work that we've
done to what's in it forthem, for the customer?
(09:18):
And I think that really isone of the biggest things,
because if you go right tothe start of any SEO campaign,
keyword research is probablythe first, second, third
task that needs to be done.
If you get that keyword researchwrong and you start ranking
for the wrong keywords withthe wrong search of intent,
driving people the wrong sortof traffic, And you haven't
had that wider conversationwith the client around business
(09:39):
objectives, how it all tiesinto the what's in it for them,
and are just focused on thiskeyword because it's got good
search volume, low competition,looks like it could be good.
If you don't have thatconversation to tie it back
to business news, businessobjectives for the client,
you could spend three to sixmonths working on this keyword
that, yes, has loads of search.
That won't actually driveto any conversions through
(10:00):
the site, so that's usually,so when we say that, that's
kind of what we mean by that.
Sarah Nuttycombe (10:07):
Okay, yeah.
Um, it's interesting you kindof laying out your process
and how you would tackle that.
Um, I understand there's.
A lot of pieces to thepuzzle and there's a lot of
people involved with that andI'm so curious to hear how
you guys approach buildinga team to sort of manage
every part of that process.
(10:27):
Like, did you find overthe years that maybe there
was a little bit of like asecret sauce to this is the
right team structure forthings like link building?
Jack Roebuck (10:36):
Yes, I think, um.
One thing we're actuallycurrently reviewing at the
moment is how we structurethat within the SEO team.
So historically, the way we'vedone this is average value
order for us as an agency isabout 15 to 20 hours per client.
Um, so with that, sometimeswe are limited to the
amount of time that.
Each individual could thenoutsource to another exec
(10:57):
around how much deliverytime they have for outreach.
So we very much empowereach exec to do all areas
of outreach, what we'veactually learned through
using Pitchbox and just teamfeedback and how we structure
things moving forward.
is that empowering certainteam members for different
tasks within outreachis much more beneficial.
Firstly, from a productivitypoint of view, but also an
(11:19):
enjoyment point of view forthe exec doing the work.
So we're really restructuringit in terms of those who
enjoy the prospecting sideand pitching the ideas.
And then also those who thencreate the content, create
the sort of infographics,the studies, all of that.
So that there's twodistinct sort of paths.
So just to reiterateand summarize what
I'm saying there is.
(11:39):
The first part for the outreachside of things from us is
definitely the prospecting andthat actual negotiation with
an editor or whoever it may be.
And then the secondstage is obviously that
production, so we're kindof splitting out those
responsibilities to execs now.
Sarah Nuttycombe (11:54):
I'm just, I'm wondering if you
guys have a way of workingtogether when things come up?
I mean, you're obviouslythinking about your team
members and going, Okay, it'sprobably a bit more enjoyable
for you guys to work on it inthis context, in this context.
We want this to be.
A good process, but youknow, when things go wrong
and challenges come up, howdo you guys kind of band
(12:15):
together to go, okay, hatson, let's figure this one out.
The good
Jack Roebuck (12:19):
thing is there's a lot of support within D& ID.
So we've got kind of a hierarchywithin the SEO team that is.
Everyone has, um, kind of liketheir line manager, but then
there's also people dedicatedto certain specialisms.
So we have one who reallyheads up the strategy side
for clients, one who isfrom a standards point of
view and one from outreach.
So if, let's say a problemarose where we spent two
(12:41):
hours prospecting, finding andpitching ideas, then another
hour and a half creating it.
And then we get to finalstage and the editor
said they don't like it.
We then share that amongstthe team with the outreach
lead who heads up that theywould then bring their sort
of thought process to it.
How can we tackle it?
We've also got a good network,which is what Pitchbox has
helped us to build, but anetwork of sites that we know
(13:03):
we have worked with in the past,got a good relationship with.
So we'd likely, if it doesn'twork with that site, for
instance, we then get in touchwith one that we have worked
with in the past, as long as wehaven't already got a link from
them, then, yeah, why wouldn'twe do something like that?
So very much work with ourpeers, share the sort of
problems that we have, andwe have some weekly and also
(13:24):
bi weekly and then monthlysessions around trouble
accounts or trouble issuesthat people are having with
the team in the boardroom.
So everybody bringsany issues they've got.
And it's kind of just a, um,yeah, everybody just works
through the ideas together,gets different points of view
and then apply that back totheir, uh, their account.
Sarah Nuttycombe (13:42):
Yeah.
When you talk about that,I see this visual of,
um, like a, like a relay.
You guys are handing off thebaton to each person and,
you know, without one personin that part of the race.
You're not making it tothe finish line, right?
Because
Jack Roebuck (13:55):
it can be, it can be tough when that happens
because you yourself, you'reso proud of the work you put
into it, secured a really goodlink, got excited about it,
and then the editor says no.
Um, but to have the reassuranceknowing that you can go to
someone else in the team,see how they would tackle it.
Um, and it's very much nota siloed thing, you're in
it together with the widerteam to help fix that issue.
(14:16):
Um.
Sarah Nuttycombe (14:17):
So I do want to focus a little bit on the
links, links aspect, because,you know, we're, um, we're
excited to be talking to agencyowners and talking about how.
Every single agency, everysingle person attacks SEO and
link building differently.
So I've got a couple likestandardized questions that I've
been talking to everyone about.
(14:38):
So I wanted to ask you inyour expert opinion on this.
So, um, my first oneis, is how do you get
links for your clients?
Jack Roebuck (14:46):
Um, so as I say, we've got quite
a range of clients.
Our average value order, asI said, is around 15 to 20
hours, but we have some thatgo up to 60, 70 hours as well.
So because of that, we havesort of differing, um, tiers
that we then offer to clients.
So right at the base level,so start at the base and
then work the way up.
So we've got just your localsort of niche directory level.
(15:07):
Um, then we would start towork through outreach and more
advanced operators that wewould want to be working with.
One thing that Pitchbox isreally good for is the advanced
operator campaign within whenyou're actually building,
um, your prospecting list.
When we want to get intomore targeted content.
That's when we would actuallyspend a lot of time manually
identifying which sites dowe really want to work with.
(15:30):
Um, maybe have a look at somecompetitor link building, um, so
to see what links of competitorsgot that we can then acquire.
We'd also then potentiallylook at unlinked brand
mentions as well.
That's quite a good way of,um, getting a load of links
through sites that alreadymentioned the client, but
haven't actually linked through.
And then obviously the beautywith Pitchbox is you can
just upload that as a CSV.
(15:50):
Straight into your prospectinglist and then run that through
the email automation as well.
Um, we're starting to workwith Harrow a little bit more.
I mean we've used thaton and off for the eight
years I've been in.
SEO Harrow can be great, butalso for an agency of our size.
We very much know our sweetspot with clients and it
is that 15 to 20 hour markHarrow, you can end up wasting.
(16:11):
Not so much wasting, buttime can go quite easily.
It's a lot of time.
Time can really goquite easily on Harrow.
And if you spend four orfive hours and you go to 10
requests that have come through,there's no guarantee there.
Um, and one of the issueswe always have with outreach
for that level of client ishow do you justify it when...
You spend this much time,but there's no guarantee
(16:32):
sometimes, um, with sortof acquiring a link.
And that's where one of thereasons why we actually went
for Pitchbox was to help usstreamline that and improve
our win rate, essentially.
Okay.
Sarah Nuttycombe (16:44):
Okay.
You just named a bunch ofdifferent ways that you
guys were, were buildinglinks, but I'm curious,
do you have a favorite
Jack Roebuck (16:50):
tactic?
Yeah, I think for me, um,changing people's perception of
what link building is, um, and.
A lot of the time peoplebuild it solely for that
link, but what we are doingwith some of our insurance
based clients is targetingsites that we know get a good
amount of traffic to them.
They're communities thatwe can actually tap into.
So, yes, we're gettinga link at the end of it,
(17:13):
which is great, but we'realso then getting some good
referral traffic to the site.
And also getting some goodbrand awareness because it's
a niche that's very relevant.
As a result of this, we'vegot to rank one within two
months, um, built quite afew decent links for the
main keyword for this client.
Um, and just seeing theimpact that that then has had.
Not just from an SEO point ofview, but this has also then
(17:35):
created an audience for us toremarket to on paid social.
So, I guess the point I'mmaking there is, from my point
of view for link building is,the best way to do it is, wait,
let me just rephrase this one.
Um, in terms of the best linkbuilding approach for me,
it's one that encompassesnot just SEO benefit.
(17:55):
But benefit from otherchannels, um, and bring in
the wider piece together.
Sarah Nuttycombe (18:00):
Absolutely.
Um, it's interesting to hearhow you guys, I like that
specific example of how youwin with one of your clients.
Um, but...
Let's think about thingsin terms of scale.
So, I mean, if you'retrying to, um, pick up
links in large numbers, whatdo you think is the most
effective way to do that?
Cool.
Jack Roebuck (18:19):
Um, so definitely the advanced operator side of
things is a very quick way toget a lot of prospecting done.
You get decent links, uh, thatwill come through as prospect.
And then as long as youhave some good filters set
up, so we, um, integrate.
through Pitchbox intoAhrefs so that we can set
up our predefined filters.
And then that way italready does some of the
automatic filtering for us.
(18:41):
Um, so definitely the advancedoperator side of things.
But also, um, as I said earlier,the unlinked brand mentions,
because it's a really goodway of just finding sites that
have already mentioned you.
All you need to do is get intouch with them and ask them
to specify a link as well.
So quite a quick way.
So definitely the advancedoperator side of things.
And then also unlinkedbrand mentions.
(19:02):
Okay,
Sarah Nuttycombe (19:03):
cool.
Um, I like this question.
So what do you think is themost important quality of
Jack Roebuck (19:08):
a good link?
Good question.
So there's a loadof factors to this.
Um, as I hope it's comingacross my opinion on outreach
is definitely changed from whereit was when I first started.
So if you'd asked me that whenI started, it would have been
do follow and it would purelybeen down to domain metrics.
But now, it's very much, yes,they are good metrics to have,
you need to make sure thatyou've got good DR, it's either,
(19:29):
it falls in line with sort ofthe link profile you want to be
building, so how many do followsdo you have that's no follows,
that's sponsored, but alsonow, um, and across the agency,
we're trying to push makingsure that it's an actual site
that has actual traffic to it.
Um, and also that there's anengaged audience as well, so
that you can benefit from thatreferral traffic and a lot
(19:49):
more than just the link itself.
So, trying to change people'sperception on link building,
it doesn't just need to begetting it live on a load of
sites, it's actually targeted.
It's a decent link from adomain point of view, but
then also these other metricsaround referral traffic and,
and that side of things too.
Sarah Nuttycombe (20:07):
Okay, cool.
Um, in a similar vein, youknow, I, I would say this
question is a, like a hot takequestion, but do you think
link building is overrated,underrated or fairly rated?
Jack Roebuck (20:19):
I would say fairly rated.
I think people still realizethat links have a place.
Within SEO, um, there'salways videos, blogs that
you'll see online saying linkbuilding is dead, X, Y, Z,
but the amount of sites thatwe work with, we've got 140
clients for a lot of them.
We follow a similarprocess to building links.
And we always know that assoon as you've got your on
(20:40):
site in a good place, there'sno technical issues, you've
got well optimized landingpages, then you move on to the
link building side of things.
As long as you can get somedecent peer links that are back
through to your relevant landingpage, obviously you've worked
on your anchor text splits.
I personally see it asit's going to be something
that's going to be aroundfor many years to come.
(21:00):
And I also think people arestarting to move into the same
mindset of myself and the agencythat link building isn't just
from a links point of view.
It's more into thatdigital PR space
Sarah Nuttycombe (21:11):
now.
Absolutely.
I think that's afantastic answer.
And you're right.
Um, I, I think a lot of what youjust said, it reflects a mental
shift in the space, if you will.
Um, So, you know, you offerlink building as a service.
How do you charge for it?
So is it per link, monthlyretainer, or just part
of larger SEO packages?
So
Jack Roebuck (21:30):
this is again, something that's quite relevant
in terms of how we operateas an agency because we're
currently reviewing this.
So at the moment itis a monthly retainer.
So a client is on for Xamount of money with us.
We would then assign a percentof that to budget for acquiring
links, but then also assign timeout of that budget to the actual
(21:51):
prospecting, the automation,the creating the content.
So, one thing we're potentiallylooking at moving forwards is.
Similar to how we run, um,our paid media offering and
almost having a, an amountof spend and then charging a
sort of management fee thatcovers that and then separating
that out from the overall SEO
Sarah Nuttycombe (22:12):
budget.
I guess changing gears alittle bit, uh, the time and
place, if you could paint me apicture of when you guys were
first looking for Pitchbox.
Um.
How were you, you know,were you maybe struggling to
solve some particular clientproblems at the time or was
it maybe just a struggle of,we just need to, to do link
building a bit differently?
Like what, what wasgoing on for you guys
Jack Roebuck (22:33):
at the time?
Yes, I think, um, it was verymanual, the process that we
had set up before Pitchbox.
So there was a lot ofGoogle sheets, um, a lot
of Gmail accounts, a lotof mail mergers happening.
Um, and the amount of timeas we were growing and
winning a lot of new clients.
The execs were then spendingon this was so much time was
just spent in the admin sideof putting it into sheets
(22:55):
then writing the emails andpartly why we wanted to to
reach out to Pitchbox and Ithink we had a look, um, had
a look at both of the tools.
Yeah, for us it was reallyto solve that manual
element and just improve.
Sort of productivity whenit comes to outreach.
We had about fouror five SEO execs.
(23:15):
I probably say between SEOclients and the types of
clients that we were startingto win would just get into
that point where they knewof link building, they knew
of outreach, and we almostneeded something that would.
Firstly, streamline theprocess, but help us ensure
that we're able to offer linkscontinually at a good level
to our clients, because theSEO that we do, we're very
(23:36):
not much, not a specialist SEOagency, but we do cover all
areas and we've got technicalspecialists, onsite specialists,
and outreach was an area wherewe needed to, to upscale.
We had a couple of calls withAlex and he just took us through
the platform in detail, reallyshowed us some of the ways
that agencies were using it.
The upskill, because at theend of the day, also, this
(23:57):
is a good upskilling toolfor execs in the agency, how
to automate outreach, how totake it to the next level.
We have some junior memberswho've been working in
SEO for about a year, yearand a half, already really
upskilled on Pitchboxbecause it's very intuitive.
You've got a real clearprocess of the prospecting,
then actually the negotiationstage, and then right the way
(24:17):
through to the, if you've wonit or not, and you can see
quite easily from a managementpoint of view as well.
How's the team performing?
Who do we need tohelp, um, upskill?
Maybe somebody's doinga lot of prospecting but
struggling to win, um, links.
What do we do there?
That then forms part of theone to one with that person,
and then part of theirprofessional development plan.
So, although we're speakingquite a lot about client impact,
(24:41):
there's actually quite a lotof, um, development for execs
and the wider SEO team thatcame through using Pitchbox too.
I'd love
Sarah Nuttycombe (24:48):
to know, how did that impact
your, your client base or.
The way that you guys wereable to deliver for them.
I don't know if there's anymaybe data in particular
that you know, off the topof your head that goes,
yeah, this is our numberswent from this to this.
Um, Yeah,
Jack Roebuck (25:05):
no.
So I think definitely frommy point of view, firstly,
um, it was the type ofclients that we were winning
and then also retaining.
So.
Our retention rate for SEOclients is 97 percent at the
moment, um, heavily impactedalso by, I, I believe the sort
of standard that we've now setfor our link building efforts.
Um, so that's one angle isthe retention that that's
(25:27):
then created for, um, OurSEO team and the clients
that we've got there, um, interms of the second angle,
obviously the streamlinednature of running it.
one thing that's really helpedis the amount of links that
go live in any given month.
We then create.
a master sheet.
So prior to being withPitchbox, we didn't really
(25:48):
have any relationship.
We had a couple ofrelationships with some key
players, but not massive.
We are an agency thatspecializes in a couple
of niches as well.
So insurance being one ofthem, appliance retailers
being another, and there'squite a few other ones that
we started to specialize in.
As a result of using Pitchbox,we've then got a master sheet
of what we've built over thepast sort of 12 to 24 months
(26:10):
that we've been tracking this,that we would classify as got a
decent relationship with them,and should we have a client that
comes on in a similar niche, orwe're looking to get on board.
XYZ.
We can then go back to thatlist and that come about
because of the speed at whichwe're able to prospect within
Pitchbox, but then alsohave the email conversations
(26:31):
and follow all of that up.
And then obviously exportthe data into just the Google
sheet so that we've got thatas an asset for new clients,
but also for current clients.
So we were talking about earlieraround, if you go through
the whole process of findingdecent sites, then pitching the
ideas, writing the content, butthen not actually going live,
we then refer to this list.
Does that fallinto this criteria?
(26:52):
Yes, it's not a great fit.
Let's tweak the article a littlebit and then send it across.
Sarah Nuttycombe (26:55):
so I think you were alluding to this a
little bit and this circlesback to the point that you
were making before that, youknow, so time and place you
were talking, we're goingfrom 60 to 70 clients a few
years ago, you're now at
Jack Roebuck (27:08):
140 140.
Sarah Nuttycombe (27:11):
Okay.
A massive, a massive change.
We're more thandoubling the clientele.
And you mentioned that theclients you're working with,
they're bigger, they're moreinternational, they've got
really ambitious growth plans.
To me, I, I just would love toknow what impact that has had
on digital energy and how do youtackle your clients challenges
(27:33):
when they are all of a suddenat this kind of bigger scale
and everything's quite differentthan it was a few years ago.
Um, I guess in a way I'masking, how do you swim with
that tide and still manage toscale yourselves successfully,
operate successfully?
Yes.
Jack Roebuck (27:48):
I think, um, firstly, the thing I've
noticed since being involvedin the account manager
for some of those biggerclients, It's the free reign
that they also give to you.
They know that they're hiring usin as experts in a given field.
So whether it's SEO, whetherit's paid social, whether
it's paid search, and wevery much get empowerment.
So we will set KPIs with theclients around what we need
(28:08):
to achieve each quarter.
We've then got our quarterlystrategies that reflect.
That's essentiallytheir objectives.
How are we going to achievethem for each channel?
But I think the thing thathas really stood out is just
having top level conversationswith them around what they are
trying to achieve and how thatfilters through to each channel.
So while we're talkingspecifically about SEO on this
call, there's still a lot thatgoes on from a paid search
(28:31):
and a paid social point ofview with these conversations
with those clients.
And I think it's justmaking sure that.
Me as an account manager orsomeone else as an account
manager, brings all of thatto the table and ties it
back into what this businessis trying to achieve and
doesn't get lost in the data.
Sarah Nuttycombe (28:47):
On that note, do you have any
examples, maybe anecdotes oftransformation that you've
been able to bring to a client?
Yeah.
Jack Roebuck (28:54):
So, um, I think a good example is
the, um, Japanese car importclient that I mentioned.
So.
As I mentioned earlier on, wework with a lot of insurance
brokers across the UK.
We're part of some pretty good,um, partnerships with those.
So for us, this cameup as a really good
opportunity for the client.
Um, we're up against somepretty big players in the UK.
You have aggregators thatreally do have sole SEO teams
(29:18):
building a lot of links tothese sorts of landing pages.
So from our point of view,we create a landing page
fully optimized from anonsite point of view.
FAQ schema was implemented,really good landing page,
really good sort of load time.
Made sure thatthat was all fine.
Then we moved on to the linkbuilding side, and this was
where, going back to my firstfew points around what makes
a good link to me, we tacklenot just links from a good DR
(29:42):
and obviously good authoritypoint of view, but also based
on the relevancy and alsothe traffic and Actual brand
awareness that we'd get throughbeing with these partnerships,
um, and getting links back.
So off the back of that,we've then had links come
through for this client.
We're now ranking Rank 1.
But also, the client's beeninvited to have a stall
(30:02):
at their bi yearly meetup.
So they meet upevery 6 months or so.
So...
Off the back of our SEOactivity, we've actually created
a whole other avenue for theclient to get involved in.
Um, so yeah, I'dsort of say that.
Yeah, that's an
Sarah Nuttycom (30:15):
awesome example.
I mean, just in light ofeverything you just told
me, what does it mean toyou personally to see that
transformation, see that impact,see those, the new avenues
Jack Roebuck (30:25):
being formed?
I think for me, um, thebiggest thing is when I'm on
the client calls, then I cansay directly that the link
building efforts that we'veachieved have helped us rank
position one for this keyword.
As a result of that, we've thenseen this many conversions.
This has actually then led tothis many converted business,
your end, because we've gotaccess to the CRM and we
(30:45):
can tie the two together.
That is what I absolutelylove when we can 100%, maybe
not 100%, 90 percent say thatthat has come from the link
building activity we havedone that has attributed to
the reason we rank there.
And then say how that'sactually generated business
for our clients, as opposedto just saying, we're now
ranking well, but we don'tknow that other part of the
puzzle, making sure that.
(31:08):
Ranking and then traffic andthen also converting is all
happening, if that makes sense.
Yeah,
Sarah Nuttycombe (31:13):
absolutely.
Um, I mean, a related questionand perhaps it's the same
answer, maybe not, but what getsyou out of bed every morning
to show up, um, at your job?
To
Jack Roebuck (31:23):
this agency, I think for me, I absolutely love
the variety of agency work.
So I think if I was inhouse, I'd get bored
pretty, really quickly.
We've got such avariety of clients.
I mean, I myself work with, uh,15 clients that I look after
and involved in, but obviouslybeing in the position I'm
in, I get exposure to all theclients we work with, so that
presents different problems.
(31:44):
We have to problemsolve and fix them.
Um, and I think alsothe pace at which.
The digital marketing industry,not just SEO, but as a whole,
you constantly have to beon the top of your game.
You could be on a clientcall, and they may have an
internal digital marketingmanager, or marketing exec,
or whoever that may be.
And just making sure that you'reat the top of your game, so
that if they ask questions, orscrutinize data, or ask X, Y,
(32:07):
Z, you're then ready to do that.
So I think what getsme out of bed is that
drive to still learn.
I still have the same drive.
As when I first got intoSEO, if not more now, because
I realized how much is outthere across other channels
as well, not just SEO.
Sarah Nuttycombe (32:23):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, that,that relates to my next
question because you'retalking about, um.
How you still have tokeep on top of things.
There's still so much to learn.
And so I'd love to know fromyour perspective, what do you
think it's going to take tostay ahead in SEO in the future?
Jack Roebuck (32:38):
Good question.
I think one good thing toalways do is create trial sites.
So one thing I see onYouTube, I think Matt Diggity
does it, a couple of otherguys do is with ChatGBT.
For instance, just becauseit's quite a hot topic, they're
creating sites that are purelybuilt through content from
ChatGVT, seeing how far they canpush it to get rankings before
(33:00):
they sort of get penalized.
Now, obviously, you wouldnever do that for a client,
but it's a really cool wayof trialing things to see
how far you can push thingsbefore stuff like that happens.
And it's always goodto have trial sites.
I've got some myself, a coupleof people in the office do, and
you would try things that are alittle bit more out there that
you wouldn't do on client sites.
Thank you.
But you can then bringthat back in and take
(33:22):
learnings from that as well.
So I think that's one way,definitely trialing things.
And then I think secondly islearning from your peers, so...
For me, being in an agencyof this size, everybody
brings their own skill setand has their specialisms.
So we have weekly, uh,so every Monday morning,
we have these performanceand progress meetings
within every single team.
Um, stopping in and listeningto those, seeing what each
(33:43):
team's working on, make surethat I'm up to date on SEO,
paid social, paid search,web, what's happening there.
And for those that aren'tfortunate enough to be in an
agency where there's that sortof level of skill set, I do just
think making sure you're activewithin LinkedIn communities,
Facebook communities, Reddit,it's a really good place
as well, and just makingsure that you, if you feel
(34:03):
yourself falling into thatsort of complacency, challenge
yourself, try something new,pick up a new channel to
learn, there's loads of Googlecourses, never lose that drive
to constantly want to better
Sarah Nuttycombe (34:14):
yourself.
Are you able to sort oftake a step back and reflect
on who you were when youfirst started at Digital NRG
versus who you are today?
How do you think thatthat kind of trajectory of
being in this agency hasimpacted you as a person?
Jack Roebuck (34:31):
Would you say you're any different?
Would I say I'm any different?
Uh, good question.
I think I've stillmanaged to keep that
drive and hunger to learn.
I think I've definitely matured.
Through having to, to be in theposition I am now and obviously
through covid and everything,there have been some, some
tough times to make some tougherdecisions and I think it's
definitely helped me progressfrom a business management
(34:55):
point of view outside of SEOinto running an agency and
everything that comes with that.
Again, we're talkingabout SEO here, but it's
obviously the HR element.
There's the recruitment, there'sfinancing, there's everything
that comes with it, and I thinkfor me, been very lucky to.
Be exposed to that.
Um, and also very lucky to havethe support from Neil and the
guys that own the agency tosort of let that happen as well.
(35:18):
Just
Sarah Nuttycombe (35:19):
jumping in on something you just said there.
Um, you get to have this highlevel look of what it takes
to operate an agency now.
Um, do you?
Would you say there's a secretsauce to making an agency run?
Jack Roebuck (35:32):
Um, I think definitely you've got to
focus on the people, whatis going well, what isn't,
making sure that you don'tget tied down too much to the
day to day side of things.
Think top level.
How can I take this person?
What's their potential?
How do we give them, um, growth?
And what does that look like?
Um, so that's definitely one.
Um, but then obviouslythe efficiency.
(35:52):
So if you look at everysingle department, so we as
an agency, we, we track timefor our tasks so that we can
see which client is on budget.
How can we streamline things?
Do we need to have aconversation with the client?
Um, and constantly thinkingabout all of the tools that we
have at our disposal, how canwe use those to make sure that
we are as effective as possible?
(36:14):
What can we give to...
Um, different automationtools to speed things
Sarah Nuttycombe (36:18):
up.
I love that.
I think that's great advice.
I think that's gonna be reallyhandy for people listening in
and wondering like, how do Itake the next step in my agency,
but do it in a way that'sgonna, um, work with my vision
of how I want to scale things.
So that's, that's really cool.
Um, I guess wrapping uphere, I would love to
know what's next for you.
For digital NRG, what do youthink the future is going
(36:40):
to look like for you guys?
Good question.
Jack Roebuck (36:41):
So I think, um, firstly, from our point
of view is we've got somequite, uh, big objectives
for this year and also next.
So we really want to try andgrow the agency by about 50
percent in terms of clients.
So that is not just new clients.
That's.
I mentioned our retentionrates for SEO being at 97%,
but one thing we've reallyrealized is to get the best
(37:03):
results for our clients.
It's for us to then look at thepaid social, the paid search,
the website, and make sureeverything works together.
So, if you're running anSEO campaign, How do we
make sure that the paidsearch campaigns that we're
running tie into that?
How can we supplementthings off the back of that?
Have we then set up remarketingaudiences for the content that
we're pushing on, um, on SEO?
(37:24):
Also from a paid searchpoint of view, have we then
created lookalike audiences?
And just take thatsort of holistic view.
Because sometimes if we arejust running one channel,
the client is not runningit at its full potential.
There's a lot more thatthey could be doing.
So I think that's one ofthe sort of real big aims.
And then also, with that growthwill then come new employees.
(37:46):
So we've onboarded twonew members of staff
in the past two weeks.
Looking to grow by 50 percentin terms of new staff as well.
And then the final onethat we're pushing.
To, to the entire agencyis a hundred percent
upskill in knowledge.
So what does thatactually look like?
That is, if you are in the SEOteam, are you trained to the
level where you can understandC-R-O-P-P-C paid social to
(38:10):
the point where you know theimpact that has on your day job.
So that.
Let's say you're analyzingGoogle Analytics and
you spot X, Y, Z.
If that client isn't on one ofthose channels, you can then
work with the account manager,spot the opportunity, and
then obviously help a clientgrow into a different area.
So, really, a big focuson, on all of those
three things, really.
Amazing.
Sarah Nuttycombe (38:29):
Oh, gosh.
I mean, to say that you'regoing to be busy is, seems
like an understatement.
But in the best way.
Um, I love it.
You guys have, uh, It's, it'san ambitious vision, but, um,
with everything you've laidout, I can see how all those
pieces of the puzzle are goingto be such a powerful thing for
you guys in the years coming.
So, uh, it's very excitingwhat you guys are building.
Jack Roebuck (38:50):
I appreciate it.
And as I say, um, agencylife, definitely for me,
the pace and the speed atwhich we move, I really do
love it and thrive off it.
And I think a lot ofthe other people within
the agency are the same.
And it's quite an interestingconversation, that agency
that's And there's obviouslypros and cons to both.
But I do think agency life,um, for someone really wanting
(39:10):
to, to learn and push anddevelop themselves, there's no
better place for it, really.
Sarah Nuttycombe (39:15):
I love that.
I think I have to endon that note because I
think it's, it's the happyending to the whole story.
Um, well, Jack, I reallyappreciate you coming
on, sharing your story.
I definitely learned a lottoday and it's just so...
Uh, it's an incredibleopportunity to talk to someone
like you and see kind of abird's eye view of what an
incredibly successful agencylooks like and how they operate.
(39:36):
So thank you so muchfor coming on today.
Thank you
Jack Roebuck (39:38):
Sarah for having me.
And, um, yeah, just really justto second some points I made
around Pitchbox and it has beena real big benefit to the way
we operate since using the tool.
So, uh, yeah, I can'trecommend it highly enough.
Sarah Nuttycombe (39:51):
Amazing.
And, um, if anyone, anyonewanted to find you, reach
out to you, talk to you,how can they get in touch
Jack Roebuck (39:56):
with you?
Yeah, the best way to reachout to me is, um, LinkedIn,
um, drop me a, a connectionrequest or feel free to just
email me at Jack at digitalNRG.
co.
uk.
I'm happy to have a conversationabout anything that's sort of
been covered on this or anyquestions that anyone may have.
Sarah Nuttycombe (40:11):
Awesome.
Well, thanks again, Jack,and I'm looking forward
to seeing what you guysget up to in the future.
Thank you.
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