March 31, 2025 • 18 mins
Empowering Gifts: Deacons Bridging Church and World
Join the Good News team: Lynn Shematek and co-hosts Deacons Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch as they speak with Denise Schiavone, Archdeacon of the Episcopal Diocese of Maryland. This episode dives into the role of deacons as bridges between the church and the world, focusing on how they empower others to use their gifts. Denise shares her journey and insights into the diaconate, innovative programs like the Deacon Engagement and Evangelism Program (DEEP), and the importance of courageous action and collaboration across faiths. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about making a significant impact in today’s world.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:46 Empowering Others: The Role of Deacons
02:00 Denise Schiavone's Journey and Role as Archdeacon
03:46 Deacon Engagement and Evangelism Program (DEEP)
05:19 Challenges and Opportunities for Deacons
07:11 Inspiring Stories and Personal Reflections
09:52 Engaging the Younger Generation
15:02 Interfaith Collaboration and Broader Impact
16:40 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
17:50 Conclusion and Farewell
Visit the Episcopal Diocese of Maryland: https://episcopalmaryland.org/
Visit Maryland Deacons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marylandepiscopaldeacons/
Email Archdeacon Denise: dschiavone@episcopalmaryland.org
The Good News! podcast series is part of the ListeningforClues portfolio. Catch us at https://listeningforclues.com/
About Archdeacon Denise Schiavone:
The Venerable Denise Schiavone took her ordination vows on June 13, 2020—at the height of pandemic shut-downs—in her home parish of St. John’s, Ellicott City. She currently serves as Archdeacon of the Episcopal Diocese of Maryland and as the deacon at St. Peter’s Church, Ellicott City. In her secular vocation, Archdeacon Denise works as a Communications Strategist, Writer, and Editor for a large not-for-profit company that serves the public interest. She also served 20 years in the U.S. Navy, retiring from active duty in 2006. She holds a master’s degree in writing from Johns Hopkins University and a bachelor’s degree in government and politics from University of Maryland College Park. Archdeacon Denise lives in Ellicott City with her husband Matt and in her off time enjoys yoga, hiking, traveling, and spending time with friends.
The Good News! podcast is hosted by Deacons Jon Shematek and Lauren Welch
© 2025 Listening for Clues
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lynn Shematek (00:01):
Hello friends.
I'm Lynn Shematek withthe Good News team today.
Let's meet the Venerable DeniseSchiavone Archdeacon of the
Episcopal Diocese of Maryland.
Join our co-hosts Deacons, Jon Shematekand Lauren Welch as we bring you
another podcast episode in our secondseason of Good News, all about people
(00:25):
making a difference in the world.
Jon Shematek (00:28):
Welcome Denise Schiavone.
We're glad you're here with uson the Good News podcast today.
Denise Schiavone (00:34):
Thank you.
I'm excited to be herewith my two fellow deacons.
Jon Shematek (00:38):
Yeah, three great, deacons rock, as Lauren keeps saying.
Deacons rock, yes.
We're just thrilled.
What did you want to talk withus and our audience about today?
Denise Schiavone (00:46):
Was giving that some thought and, When I started thinking
about the different things that cameto mind, I was focused on a theme
of empowering others in their gifts.
We really need to do now more than others.
Something that I think deaconsare certainly, uniquely,
positioned and, equipped to do.
Lauren Welch (01:07):
So Denise, how about sharing what the diaconate is and how do deacons
live out that call of empowering people?
Denise Schiavone (01:17):
Deacons serve as a bridge between the church and the world.
We help point the church out thedoors of the sanctuary, to the world
where, there are various needs, thatwe can serve and help others to serve.
The fact that we work in the world,most of us is actually a perfect
alignment because we're working in theworld, we are working in the church.
(01:38):
So we are bi vocational or whatsome people call co vocational.
And I think it really allowsus to, bring to people's
attention the needs of the world.
When we're at church and also to ministerin our own ways, not with a collar on,
of course, but minister in our own ways.
When we're in our secular vocations.
Jon Shematek (02:00):
So maybe we should talk a little bit about you and
how you found yourself in thisposition of being a deacon.
You've been a deacon for five years.
And more recently, you haveassumed the role of archdeacon.
Tell us a little bit about that.
What's that meant for you and whatdoes it mean for us as deacons in
(02:21):
the church, as well as everyone else?
Denise Schiavone (02:23):
As archdeacon.
I serve the bishop in overseeingthe deployment and formation
of deacons in Maryland.
What that means is Ihave big shoes to fill.
The previous archdeacon served foreight years and, there was another
archdeacon and I stepped into arole that has been well filled and
people have been well taken care of.
(02:45):
For me, it means, I'm tryingto figure out ways that I can
help people to use their gifts.
In this current environment we're meetingso many different challenges right now,
across the diocese that, I think weneed to find creative ways to do things.
(03:07):
Reimagining the way we do ministryand I see myself as trying to help
make those connections with people.
Lauren Welch (03:14):
Denise, what are some of the ways that you would like to see changing?
Love
Denise Schiavone (03:19):
to grow . The deacons that we have, the
numbers right now are pretty.
slim, right?
We have 19 serving in parishes.
So I'm hoping that we to do moregiven the resources that we have.
So how can we be more impactful inthe ways that we serve as deacons?
(03:40):
one of the ways that I'mhoping that we can do that.
It's a small way, but it's a start.
we came up with a program called theDeacon Engagement and Evangelism Program.
we are sending deacons out to visitparishes other than their own.
the deacon will visit a congregation thatdoes not have a deacon assigned there.
(04:02):
they'll serve in worship preach teachadult formation, engage with people at
coffee hour, and have a conversationabout what people are excited about in
terms of their own ministry in the world.
Lauren Welch (04:16):
And you've done some of these, right?
How has it gone?
Denise Schiavone (04:20):
I will say this, the first one was the softball
because I picked the first Episcopalchurch that I ever worshipped at,
as my first visiting location.
So they were really happy to welcome me.
Both of the places that I visited, peoplehave been very welcoming and curious.
They've been curiousabout, what is a deacon?
What does a deacon do?
How is a deacon different than a priest?
(04:41):
how do deacons worktogether with lay people?
And so there's those basic questionsbecause some of them have either
never been exposed to deaconsor it's been a very long time.
then we get to those questionsaround, what are you interested in?
That's what I like to ask them.
what are some of the things thatkeep you up at night That you think
you might have a gift to address.
(05:03):
those are the conversationsI've really enjoyed with folks.
we have, four othervisitors, going out as well.
And they're having thosegreat conversations.
it's sparking that, connectionand dialogue around.
how we can, meet the needs of the world.
Jon Shematek (05:19):
I think you're absolutely right Denise when you said that
we need this now more than ever.
I was wondering, you mentioned thereare a few deacons attached to parishes.
is there a goal of having A certainnumber of deacons, cause that's
been a goal for many years of thisdiocese, like a deacon in every parish.
another.
potential way, and I'm wondering abouthow you are approaching this in your
(05:42):
visits, is to talk about the diakoniaof all believers or the servant
role that all baptized people have.
Denise Schiavone (05:49):
I don't have a number in mind, and I have never heard
our bishop have a number in mind.
Would it be great to have adeacon in every congregation.
Sure, it would be great.
but that's not on my list of goalswhen we visit congregations, I, it
would be great if somebody came andsaid, Hey, I'm really interested in
discerning a call to be a deacon.
And that happened at my last visit.
(06:11):
And that's wonderful.
That's not our goal.
When we go in to talk to folks,I think it's more about the
diakonia of all believers.
How are we helping people to thinkcreatively about, where their gifts
match what's going on in the world.
And that can be difficult because I thinkpeople don't often see their own gifts.
(06:32):
deacons, are uniquely equippedto, help people see their gifts.
and how they can use those.
finding ways to help peoplethink creatively about that
and also, help embolden them.
So it's empowering and emboldening themto feel like they can go out and do that.
Even in small ways.
Jon, what you said about nowmore than ever, this is important
(06:54):
because, people are feeling helpless.
They are, they are scared, theyare frustrated, they are angry.
sometimes it can be hard tosee that, you have a passion.
and a gift and you might thinkthat's the smallest thing.
but that can be lifechanging for somebody.
I have an example of this.
at my last parish, we, had a groupdiscerning how to respond to, the
(07:18):
refugees fleeing, Afghanistan when the U.
S.
pulled out of Afghanistan.
We had a month long discernmentprocess because the congregation
was thinking about sponsoringthis family from Afghanistan.
that's a big deal.
we went through this process and decidedto go ahead and sponsor this family.
And one of the parishioners, her nameis Pat came to me and said, I'm at
(07:42):
the stage of my life now where, I'mreally not going to be able to do much.
I'd like to help, butit's going to be limited.
It's going to be behind the scenes.
My health isn't great.
she said, so I'll do what I can,but I'm really not going to be
able to be on the front lines.
And I said, okay, that's great.
Whatever you can do.
And then I sat back and I watched as Patbecame somebody, who greeted this family
(08:06):
upon their arrival in Howard County, fromAfghanistan, somebody who pastored to
them in their trauma, because there wasa lot of trauma they had experienced and
somebody they ultimately called Mima.
Which is the Afghan word, it's aterm of endearment like grandma.
and so Pat thought hergifts were very small.
And in actuality, theywere huge for this family.
(08:28):
Huge.
Lauren Welch (08:30):
So I'm really glad to hear that you're doing this.
What has surprised you the most asyou have gone out to these parishes?
Denise Schiavone (08:39):
I've been surprised at how much I enjoy going out to visit.
I'm a proud, introvert and it's notmy favorite thing to go into places
that I'm not, really familiar withand, stand up at the pulpit and,
Connect people who are strangers.
I've just, really enjoyed it.
it's fed my soul.
(09:00):
these conversations that I've had withfolks and, the passion that I'm seeing
they have for people on the margins forvulnerable communities, people are hungry
to do something and to make a difference.
that's really exciting to me.
And it's powerful for me to experience
Jon Shematek (09:18):
There can be a real challenge in that too, because
people, as you said earlier,Denise, aren't aware of their gifts.
very often, my experience, ifyou've attempted to name the gifts
that they have and affirm that,people are sometimes surprised.
They're so grateful, especially forsomeone that wears a collar, to be saying,
yeah, you have an amazing gift for beingavailable or for listening, which is
(09:42):
our theme really is about listening.
that's a challenge though, isn't it?
Denise Schiavone (09:46):
Yeah, I think it is a challenge.
I think it's also a challengedemographically as well.
we're hoping, to excite, youngpeople who are hungry to make
a difference in the world.
We need to find ways to do that.
We need to meet people where they are.
My own daughter is 23 and she everyday wakes up and says, Oh my God,
(10:08):
what is happening in this world?
And I think she feels helpless.
So I people her age, and in thatdemographic are really looking for
ways that they can make a difference.
inside the church, outside theI'm speaking really broadly.
So if we can help people by havinghonest and authentic conversations,
I think all of that helps.
Lauren Welch (10:30):
Those young people have different ideas and they are
the ones that are going to haveto come up with plan B's plan C's
you're trying to get people to do.
So I think that would be really helpful.
If we can really be in conversation withthem, they're really smart kids out there.
(10:52):
They are.
And some of them are reallydoing some good work already.
Denise Schiavone (10:58):
They're smart, they're creative, and they have
amazing insight, into people's needsand how to really connect with people.
I don't know if this is factual, ifwe can verify this, but I'm going to
venture to say that in the EpiscopalDiocese of Maryland, we have, if not
the youngest, one of the youngest.
postulants and in deacon formation ever.
(11:21):
we can fact check me on that he'sgotta be one of the youngest and
Lauren Welch (11:24):
he
Denise Schiavone (11:25):
is one of the youngest, if not the youngest.
22 years old.
which is amazing.
Can't be ordained untilhe is, 24 by the Canons.
but just to have a conversation, withhim and really hear him express what's
on his heart and mind and, what hehopes for the future of the church.
(11:46):
we Episcopalians talk about.
welcoming, inclusive, via media.
he and his colleagues have anotherperspective on what that means,
What does it really mean to beradically welcoming and inclusive?
how are we doing that?
How are we living into that?
we think we're doing that.
We hope we're doing it.
are there other ways thatwe can grow into that?
Lauren Welch (12:11):
And there's many more like him out there.
If we reach out to this, they really are.
. Denise Schiavone (12:16):
Think about it.
We're church outside thesanctuary much more than we are
inside the sanctuary, right?
Think about how muchtime we spend in church.
If you count Sunday mornings andmaybe, an evening meeting it pales in
comparison to the amount of time thatwe are spending, out in the world.
Yeah.
Jon Shematek (12:32):
Denise, you've got some other deacons that are doing the DEEP
or deep deacon evangelism, and it'san engagement and evangelism, right
Denise Schiavone (12:42):
we debated using that evangelism word.
Because many folks are a little nervousabout that word, but we landed on.
No, that's a good word.
We're.
Yeah, that's a good word.
We're going out and connectingwith people and bearing prophetic
witness about the Good News.
I can't think of a betterword than evangelism.
Jon Shematek (13:01):
Yeah, that's right.
And it's all about bringing the Good News.
That's why, we're doingthis in our small way.
It's what you were saying, when going tomake your visits, it's unexpectedly fun.
there is just, fun in this.
it's a different kind of fun than,serving at the altar and preaching
from the pulpit But it's wherethere is a deep joy, I think.
(13:22):
And I know, Lauren, youshare that sense as well.
So yeah, this is whatwe're meant to be doing.
That's how you know whatyou're meant to be doing.
I think this is great and a verybold thing that you're doing with,
DEEP, and, it's, really, I'm sureit's going to make an impact.
I don't know if we're going to havedozens of new deacons, but I think the
other thing that I really appreciate,Denise is just, from your professional
(13:45):
background, as well as knowing something.
things about you and your personalskill set, is your, creativity and your
communication skills and so on that youhave in your, have had in your secular
life, how that, how wonderful that isto translate the needs of the world and
the needs of the church to one anotherand to translate the need for, the,
(14:08):
diakonia of all believers out there.
You're well suited for this role.
Denise Schiavone (14:14):
it's funny you said that because it's only recently,
probably in the last six monthsthat I've really felt this strong
alignment between, my two vocations.
and I was, there's many reasons for that,but, as you mentioned, I'm in strategic
communications and, I'm a storyteller.
And, I see that playing out both in mysecular job, where I get paid to do that.
(14:39):
But also, the more we can tell people'sstories, in the church, the more we can
tell stories about what we're seeing andwitnessing and good stories, about what
people are doing to make a difference.
that spreads I feellike that's contagious.
Yeah.
Jon Shematek (14:56):
Yeah,
Denise Schiavone (14:56):
Everybody loves the story exactly what you guys are doing Yes,
Lauren Welch (15:00):
and we want that to be contagious
Denise Schiavone (15:02):
that's the other thing I love about your podcast is
that it's broad, ecumenical, biggerthan the Episcopal Church, or even the
church, I love that, because I thinkalso the part of this connection.
in churches and helping people connectwith the needs of the world is broad in
the sense that, we can be looking forways to do that with people of other
(15:24):
faith traditions, people of no faithtradition, people of goodwill wanting to
make a difference that refugee ministryI mentioned is a great example of that.
they started with one congregation.
then they partnered with another Episcopalchurch then a Lutheran church then
the Quakers, and then a Jewish temple.
(15:44):
Now they are a seven faithcommunity ministry, supporting
seven different refugee families.
look what the spirit did with that.
I love to see that collaborationbecause I think that's going to
be critical to meeting all thesedifferent needs that we have out in
the world, and to helping, marginalizedand vulnerable groups of people.
Jon Shematek (16:07):
good deeds, multiplication of faith in whatever
way, and again, you're right.
It's not just us and our denominationor any denomination we do have, the,
spiritual, but not religious folks.
if the spirit is leading them, fantastic.
That's great.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And Lauren, I know you, probablyhave another question up your sleeve.
Lauren Welch (16:31):
Before we leave.
Jon Shematek (16:32):
Yes.
Lauren Welch (16:34):
you have shared what your dreams are, and what you are
working towards, and you've just begun.
At this time, in the timesthat we live, What wisdom would
you like to share with them?
Denise Schiavone (16:48):
I want to encourage people to try to be as
courageous as possible in takingtheir gifts out into the world.
and I know that's a hard thing to do.
It can be hard to speak truth,amid all the noise and the loud
voices we have going on out there.
even just that littlest bit, thatone statement, that one moment.
(17:13):
can make a difference, it can be scary.
I hope that people also can seefailure as an opportunity to grow,
and learn and, that mistakes are okay.
We can make missteps.
try something out and fumbleand falter and it will be okay.
There will be good that comesout of it, regardless of
(17:33):
whether we can see it or not.
it might be a leap sometimes,but, try to have a little bit of
confidence and just take that stepbecause we need everybody's gifts.
Jon Shematek (17:46):
Thank you for that.
This was great.
Archdeacon, Denise Schiavone, we areso glad that you've been with us today.
I really appreciate your time.
I know you are.
Super busy with all aspects.
Denise Schiavone (18:00):
No, no busier than anybody else.
We are all busy, but thank youfor having me I've enjoyed this.
I don't get to spend time withyou guys together very much.
So this is awesome.
Lauren Welch (18:09):
Been delightful Denise.
Thank you.
Thank you so much Thank you bothand Jon I want to thank all who
are watching and listening for thegift of your time with us today
Until next time peace and blessings
Lynn Shematek (18:23):
This episode of Good News has been brought
to you by Listening for Clues.
For more podcasts, check outour YouTube channel or our
website listening for clues.com.
Thanks for being with us today.
Hello friends.
I'm Lynn Shematek withthe Good News team today.
Let's meet the Venerable DeniseSchiavone Archdeacon of the
Episcopal Diocese of Maryland.
Join our co-hosts Deacons, Jon Shematekand Lauren Welch as we bring you
another podcast episode in our secondseason of Good News, all about people
(00:25):
making a difference in the world.
Jon Shematek (00:28):
Welcome Denise Schiavone.
We're glad you're here with uson the Good News podcast today.
Denise Schiavone (00:34):
Thank you.
I'm excited to be herewith my two fellow deacons.
Jon Shematek (00:38):
Yeah, three great, deacons rock, as Lauren keeps saying.
Deacons rock, yes.
We're just thrilled.
What did you want to talk withus and our audience about today?
Denise Schiavone (00:46):
Was giving that some thought and, When I started thinking
about the different things that cameto mind, I was focused on a theme
of empowering others in their gifts.
We really need to do now more than others.
Something that I think deaconsare certainly, uniquely,
positioned and, equipped to do.
Lauren Welch (01:07):
So Denise, how about sharing what the diaconate is and how do deacons
live out that call of empowering people?
Denise Schiavone (01:17):
Deacons serve as a bridge between the church and the world.
We help point the church out thedoors of the sanctuary, to the world
where, there are various needs, thatwe can serve and help others to serve.
The fact that we work in the world,most of us is actually a perfect
alignment because we're working in theworld, we are working in the church.
(01:38):
So we are bi vocational or whatsome people call co vocational.
And I think it really allowsus to, bring to people's
attention the needs of the world.
When we're at church and also to ministerin our own ways, not with a collar on,
of course, but minister in our own ways.
When we're in our secular vocations.
Jon Shematek (02:00):
So maybe we should talk a little bit about you and
how you found yourself in thisposition of being a deacon.
You've been a deacon for five years.
And more recently, you haveassumed the role of archdeacon.
Tell us a little bit about that.
What's that meant for you and whatdoes it mean for us as deacons in
(02:21):
the church, as well as everyone else?
Denise Schiavone (02:23):
As archdeacon.
I serve the bishop in overseeingthe deployment and formation
of deacons in Maryland.
What that means is Ihave big shoes to fill.
The previous archdeacon served foreight years and, there was another
archdeacon and I stepped into arole that has been well filled and
people have been well taken care of.
(02:45):
For me, it means, I'm tryingto figure out ways that I can
help people to use their gifts.
In this current environment we're meetingso many different challenges right now,
across the diocese that, I think weneed to find creative ways to do things.
(03:07):
Reimagining the way we do ministryand I see myself as trying to help
make those connections with people.
Lauren Welch (03:14):
Denise, what are some of the ways that you would like to see changing?
Love
Denise Schiavone (03:19):
to grow . The deacons that we have, the
numbers right now are pretty.
slim, right?
We have 19 serving in parishes.
So I'm hoping that we to do moregiven the resources that we have.
So how can we be more impactful inthe ways that we serve as deacons?
(03:40):
one of the ways that I'mhoping that we can do that.
It's a small way, but it's a start.
we came up with a program called theDeacon Engagement and Evangelism Program.
we are sending deacons out to visitparishes other than their own.
the deacon will visit a congregation thatdoes not have a deacon assigned there.
(04:02):
they'll serve in worship preach teachadult formation, engage with people at
coffee hour, and have a conversationabout what people are excited about in
terms of their own ministry in the world.
Lauren Welch (04:16):
And you've done some of these, right?
How has it gone?
Denise Schiavone (04:20):
I will say this, the first one was the softball
because I picked the first Episcopalchurch that I ever worshipped at,
as my first visiting location.
So they were really happy to welcome me.
Both of the places that I visited, peoplehave been very welcoming and curious.
They've been curiousabout, what is a deacon?
What does a deacon do?
How is a deacon different than a priest?
(04:41):
how do deacons worktogether with lay people?
And so there's those basic questionsbecause some of them have either
never been exposed to deaconsor it's been a very long time.
then we get to those questionsaround, what are you interested in?
That's what I like to ask them.
what are some of the things thatkeep you up at night That you think
you might have a gift to address.
(05:03):
those are the conversationsI've really enjoyed with folks.
we have, four othervisitors, going out as well.
And they're having thosegreat conversations.
it's sparking that, connectionand dialogue around.
how we can, meet the needs of the world.
Jon Shematek (05:19):
I think you're absolutely right Denise when you said that
we need this now more than ever.
I was wondering, you mentioned thereare a few deacons attached to parishes.
is there a goal of having A certainnumber of deacons, cause that's
been a goal for many years of thisdiocese, like a deacon in every parish.
another.
potential way, and I'm wondering abouthow you are approaching this in your
(05:42):
visits, is to talk about the diakoniaof all believers or the servant
role that all baptized people have.
Denise Schiavone (05:49):
I don't have a number in mind, and I have never heard
our bishop have a number in mind.
Would it be great to have adeacon in every congregation.
Sure, it would be great.
but that's not on my list of goalswhen we visit congregations, I, it
would be great if somebody came andsaid, Hey, I'm really interested in
discerning a call to be a deacon.
And that happened at my last visit.
(06:11):
And that's wonderful.
That's not our goal.
When we go in to talk to folks,I think it's more about the
diakonia of all believers.
How are we helping people to thinkcreatively about, where their gifts
match what's going on in the world.
And that can be difficult because I thinkpeople don't often see their own gifts.
(06:32):
deacons, are uniquely equippedto, help people see their gifts.
and how they can use those.
finding ways to help peoplethink creatively about that
and also, help embolden them.
So it's empowering and emboldening themto feel like they can go out and do that.
Even in small ways.
Jon, what you said about nowmore than ever, this is important
(06:54):
because, people are feeling helpless.
They are, they are scared, theyare frustrated, they are angry.
sometimes it can be hard tosee that, you have a passion.
and a gift and you might thinkthat's the smallest thing.
but that can be lifechanging for somebody.
I have an example of this.
at my last parish, we, had a groupdiscerning how to respond to, the
(07:18):
refugees fleeing, Afghanistan when the U.
S.
pulled out of Afghanistan.
We had a month long discernmentprocess because the congregation
was thinking about sponsoringthis family from Afghanistan.
that's a big deal.
we went through this process and decidedto go ahead and sponsor this family.
And one of the parishioners, her nameis Pat came to me and said, I'm at
(07:42):
the stage of my life now where, I'mreally not going to be able to do much.
I'd like to help, butit's going to be limited.
It's going to be behind the scenes.
My health isn't great.
she said, so I'll do what I can,but I'm really not going to be
able to be on the front lines.
And I said, okay, that's great.
Whatever you can do.
And then I sat back and I watched as Patbecame somebody, who greeted this family
(08:06):
upon their arrival in Howard County, fromAfghanistan, somebody who pastored to
them in their trauma, because there wasa lot of trauma they had experienced and
somebody they ultimately called Mima.
Which is the Afghan word, it's aterm of endearment like grandma.
and so Pat thought hergifts were very small.
And in actuality, theywere huge for this family.
(08:28):
Huge.
Lauren Welch (08:30):
So I'm really glad to hear that you're doing this.
What has surprised you the most asyou have gone out to these parishes?
Denise Schiavone (08:39):
I've been surprised at how much I enjoy going out to visit.
I'm a proud, introvert and it's notmy favorite thing to go into places
that I'm not, really familiar withand, stand up at the pulpit and,
Connect people who are strangers.
I've just, really enjoyed it.
it's fed my soul.
(09:00):
these conversations that I've had withfolks and, the passion that I'm seeing
they have for people on the margins forvulnerable communities, people are hungry
to do something and to make a difference.
that's really exciting to me.
And it's powerful for me to experience
Jon Shematek (09:18):
There can be a real challenge in that too, because
people, as you said earlier,Denise, aren't aware of their gifts.
very often, my experience, ifyou've attempted to name the gifts
that they have and affirm that,people are sometimes surprised.
They're so grateful, especially forsomeone that wears a collar, to be saying,
yeah, you have an amazing gift for beingavailable or for listening, which is
(09:42):
our theme really is about listening.
that's a challenge though, isn't it?
Denise Schiavone (09:46):
Yeah, I think it is a challenge.
I think it's also a challengedemographically as well.
we're hoping, to excite, youngpeople who are hungry to make
a difference in the world.
We need to find ways to do that.
We need to meet people where they are.
My own daughter is 23 and she everyday wakes up and says, Oh my God,
(10:08):
what is happening in this world?
And I think she feels helpless.
So I people her age, and in thatdemographic are really looking for
ways that they can make a difference.
inside the church, outside theI'm speaking really broadly.
So if we can help people by havinghonest and authentic conversations,
I think all of that helps.
Lauren Welch (10:30):
Those young people have different ideas and they are
the ones that are going to haveto come up with plan B's plan C's
you're trying to get people to do.
So I think that would be really helpful.
If we can really be in conversation withthem, they're really smart kids out there.
(10:52):
They are.
And some of them are reallydoing some good work already.
Denise Schiavone (10:58):
They're smart, they're creative, and they have
amazing insight, into people's needsand how to really connect with people.
I don't know if this is factual, ifwe can verify this, but I'm going to
venture to say that in the EpiscopalDiocese of Maryland, we have, if not
the youngest, one of the youngest.
postulants and in deacon formation ever.
(11:21):
we can fact check me on that he'sgotta be one of the youngest and
Lauren Welch (11:24):
he
Denise Schiavone (11:25):
is one of the youngest, if not the youngest.
22 years old.
which is amazing.
Can't be ordained untilhe is, 24 by the Canons.
but just to have a conversation, withhim and really hear him express what's
on his heart and mind and, what hehopes for the future of the church.
(11:46):
we Episcopalians talk about.
welcoming, inclusive, via media.
he and his colleagues have anotherperspective on what that means,
What does it really mean to beradically welcoming and inclusive?
how are we doing that?
How are we living into that?
we think we're doing that.
We hope we're doing it.
are there other ways thatwe can grow into that?
Lauren Welch (12:11):
And there's many more like him out there.
If we reach out to this, they really are.
. Denise Schiavone (12:16):
Think about it.
We're church outside thesanctuary much more than we are
inside the sanctuary, right?
Think about how muchtime we spend in church.
If you count Sunday mornings andmaybe, an evening meeting it pales in
comparison to the amount of time thatwe are spending, out in the world.
Yeah.
Jon Shematek (12:32):
Denise, you've got some other deacons that are doing the DEEP
or deep deacon evangelism, and it'san engagement and evangelism, right
Denise Schiavone (12:42):
we debated using that evangelism word.
Because many folks are a little nervousabout that word, but we landed on.
No, that's a good word.
We're.
Yeah, that's a good word.
We're going out and connectingwith people and bearing prophetic
witness about the Good News.
I can't think of a betterword than evangelism.
Jon Shematek (13:01):
Yeah, that's right.
And it's all about bringing the Good News.
That's why, we're doingthis in our small way.
It's what you were saying, when going tomake your visits, it's unexpectedly fun.
there is just, fun in this.
it's a different kind of fun than,serving at the altar and preaching
from the pulpit But it's wherethere is a deep joy, I think.
(13:22):
And I know, Lauren, youshare that sense as well.
So yeah, this is whatwe're meant to be doing.
That's how you know whatyou're meant to be doing.
I think this is great and a verybold thing that you're doing with,
DEEP, and, it's, really, I'm sureit's going to make an impact.
I don't know if we're going to havedozens of new deacons, but I think the
other thing that I really appreciate,Denise is just, from your professional
(13:45):
background, as well as knowing something.
things about you and your personalskill set, is your, creativity and your
communication skills and so on that youhave in your, have had in your secular
life, how that, how wonderful that isto translate the needs of the world and
the needs of the church to one anotherand to translate the need for, the,
(14:08):
diakonia of all believers out there.
You're well suited for this role.
Denise Schiavone (14:14):
it's funny you said that because it's only recently,
probably in the last six monthsthat I've really felt this strong
alignment between, my two vocations.
and I was, there's many reasons for that,but, as you mentioned, I'm in strategic
communications and, I'm a storyteller.
And, I see that playing out both in mysecular job, where I get paid to do that.
(14:39):
But also, the more we can tell people'sstories, in the church, the more we can
tell stories about what we're seeing andwitnessing and good stories, about what
people are doing to make a difference.
that spreads I feellike that's contagious.
Yeah.
Jon Shematek (14:56):
Yeah,
Denise Schiavone (14:56):
Everybody loves the story exactly what you guys are doing Yes,
Lauren Welch (15:00):
and we want that to be contagious
Denise Schiavone (15:02):
that's the other thing I love about your podcast is
that it's broad, ecumenical, biggerthan the Episcopal Church, or even the
church, I love that, because I thinkalso the part of this connection.
in churches and helping people connectwith the needs of the world is broad in
the sense that, we can be looking forways to do that with people of other
(15:24):
faith traditions, people of no faithtradition, people of goodwill wanting to
make a difference that refugee ministryI mentioned is a great example of that.
they started with one congregation.
then they partnered with another Episcopalchurch then a Lutheran church then
the Quakers, and then a Jewish temple.
(15:44):
Now they are a seven faithcommunity ministry, supporting
seven different refugee families.
look what the spirit did with that.
I love to see that collaborationbecause I think that's going to
be critical to meeting all thesedifferent needs that we have out in
the world, and to helping, marginalizedand vulnerable groups of people.
Jon Shematek (16:07):
good deeds, multiplication of faith in whatever
way, and again, you're right.
It's not just us and our denominationor any denomination we do have, the,
spiritual, but not religious folks.
if the spirit is leading them, fantastic.
That's great.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And Lauren, I know you, probablyhave another question up your sleeve.
Lauren Welch (16:31):
Before we leave.
Jon Shematek (16:32):
Yes.
Lauren Welch (16:34):
you have shared what your dreams are, and what you are
working towards, and you've just begun.
At this time, in the timesthat we live, What wisdom would
you like to share with them?
Denise Schiavone (16:48):
I want to encourage people to try to be as
courageous as possible in takingtheir gifts out into the world.
and I know that's a hard thing to do.
It can be hard to speak truth,amid all the noise and the loud
voices we have going on out there.
even just that littlest bit, thatone statement, that one moment.
(17:13):
can make a difference, it can be scary.
I hope that people also can seefailure as an opportunity to grow,
and learn and, that mistakes are okay.
We can make missteps.
try something out and fumbleand falter and it will be okay.
There will be good that comesout of it, regardless of
(17:33):
whether we can see it or not.
it might be a leap sometimes,but, try to have a little bit of
confidence and just take that stepbecause we need everybody's gifts.
Jon Shematek (17:46):
Thank you for that.
This was great.
Archdeacon, Denise Schiavone, we areso glad that you've been with us today.
I really appreciate your time.
I know you are.
Super busy with all aspects.
Denise Schiavone (18:00):
No, no busier than anybody else.
We are all busy, but thank youfor having me I've enjoyed this.
I don't get to spend time withyou guys together very much.
So this is awesome.
Lauren Welch (18:09):
Been delightful Denise.
Thank you.
Thank you so much Thank you bothand Jon I want to thank all who
are watching and listening for thegift of your time with us today
Until next time peace and blessings
Lynn Shematek (18:23):
This episode of Good News has been brought
to you by Listening for Clues.
For more podcasts, check outour YouTube channel or our
website listening for clues.com.
Thanks for being with us today.
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