July 20, 2025 • 31 mins
Exploring the Intersection of Art and Spirituality with Deborah Hazlett
In this episode with the team from Good News!, professional actress Deborah Hazlett shares insights from her extensive career with Everyman Theatre and her teaching of the Alexander Technique. Deborah discusses her experiences in regional theater, the sense of family at Everyman, and the unique demands of live performance. She also delves into the Alexander Technique, explaining its integration into both her acting and personal life. Additionally, Deborah reflects on how her work in theater has deepened her spiritual life and provided a sense of agency. The discussion also touches on the importance of supporting live theater through attendance and contributions.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:08 Deborah's Acting Journey
00:29 Life at Everyman Theatre
02:27 The Rehearsal Process
03:17 Balancing Teaching and Acting
03:43 Impact of COVID-19
04:33 Exploring the Alexander Technique
05:14 Diverse Roles and Typecasting
07:46 Memorable Roles and Audience Reactions
12:48 Theater's Impact on Spirituality
15:43 Supporting the Arts Post-COVID
20:16 Deep Dive into the Alexander Technique
28:12 Final Thoughts and Advice
30:11 Conclusion and Farewell
Check out Everyman Theatre at https://everymantheatre.org/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lynn Shematek (00:01):
Hello, friends.
Today we meet Deborah Hazlett for whomacting is more than just a performance.
It's part of a personal,spiritual journey.
Deborah talks with Good News teamabout how her varied experiences
on stage connect with the DivineMystery within herself and the
collective soul of the audience.
(00:22):
Join us as we explore thisinterplay between art and spirit.
Jon Shematek (00:27):
Deborah Hazlett, welcome to our podcast.
We're thrilled to have you here today.
Deborah Hazlett (00:33):
Thank you.
I am delighted to be here.
Jon Shematek (00:35):
So Deborah, you are a professional actress.
You've been part of the Every man theater,resident acting company for a couple
of decades plus, you are a teacher ofsomething that I don't know anything
about called the Alexander Technique.
we'd really love to hear about youyour career and the Alexander technique
Deborah Hazlett (00:56):
I've been at Everyman for, this is my 28th year.
it's been pivotal for my developmentas an artist because a lot of people
in this country, at least people Irun into, don't know that being a
regional theater actor a full-time job.
they know a lot about film andtelevision actors and Broadway,
but they don't know a lot aboutwhat we call being in the regions.
(01:19):
I lived in New York for years andhave had an agent there for years and.
have worked outside of Baltimore and,had wonderful, wonderful experiences, but
it's been so important to have an artistichome where I feel that I have a voice as
an artist where I feel my opinion and myjourney is important to the folks around
(01:40):
me who I consider my theater family.
So it's been my artistichome now for a long time.
And the gift of that is that I have,some agency as an artist, I can
talk about what's important to me.
I work with people.
I consider my family, whether it'sthe stage managers the shop, the
crew, the wonderful administrativestaff, the front of house folks.
(02:03):
often when you are hired and goto work in a theater, you just
don't get to know those people.
everyone's kind, but you aren'texposed as an actor to those folks.
so those people are my theater family.
but I've also enjoyed, auditioningin New York and working in theaters
where I don't know anyone at all,
Opportunity to start over and recreateyourself every time you go into a
(02:25):
new rehearsal hall where you mayonly have met the director in New
York at an audition and a callback.
some of that is virtual these dayssince COVID, a lot of that has changed.
and then there you are and you showup and you have an intense eight to 10
weeks with folks and then you go home.
So the consistency at Everymanhas really, helped me.
(02:46):
Develop myself as an artist, artist ina place where I felt safe and welcomed.
We talk at every man a lotabout the rehearsal hall.
I actually like rehearsalbetter than I like performance.
in the rehearsal hall, you getto risk and fall down and make
mistakes and we try something andthen we say, oh, that didn't work.
(03:06):
But then we get to tryagain It's great fun.
It's work too.
people still ask me after allthese years, what do I actually do?
the rehearsal week is seven daysa week, eight to 10 hours a day.
and then you have eight showsa week, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday nights, two shows.
Saturday, two shows Sunday,sometimes a matinee during the week.
(03:28):
So it's an intense processthat requires, a full-time job.
And this is when you are workingin a union house, which Everyman
is, it's hard to have anotherkind of job when you're working.
You're not always working.
So there's lots of in-betweensand that's where I found my
teaching to really sustain me.
(03:50):
I have an MFA, which is a threeyear, terminal program for actors.
It's a funny word, it soundslike, we die at the end of it, but
they called it terminal degree.
It's the last one you can get asan actor, and that is what you need
to teach at the university level.
But also I teach fortheaters when I work there.
(04:10):
And, but during COVID, as youknow, all the theaters shut down.
Everything went dark.
I had just started my, teachertraining for a certificate
in the Alexander technique.
There happened to be atMid-Atlantic here in Baltimore.
Happened to be run by abrilliant woman, Nancy Bermuda.
(04:31):
And we were able to keep that going.
And I spent, it's a 1600 hourcertification, so I spent a lot of the one
and a half years of COVID where theaterswere shut down and then completed my
training once we started working again.
This time through studying it hasreally transformed my work, but
(04:53):
also my life in a lot of ways.
So it's been pretty spectacular.
Jon Shematek (04:58):
Wow.
Well, we sure wanna hear about that.
I think it's probably a goodtime to just tell us a bit more
about, Alexander Technique.
And I do wanna loop back, to hear abit more about, your acting career
and the impact that's had on yourlife, particularly on your inner
self, your spiritual life, you weretalking about that wonderful sense
of family, at Everyman that, thatyou've had and, which is awesome.
(05:21):
I'm also interested in the audiencecomponent of that and the impact?
I know you've been in ahuge variety of roles.
I've seen you in several verydifferent roles and, mm-hmm.
So, I don't know, you want, you, youwanna talk about Alexander or talk
a little bit more about, Everymanand what, what goes on there?
Deborah Hazlett (05:39):
Let's, talk about every man just to keep a through line.
so often in this businessyou can be, typecast.
when you don't know folks very well inNew York you're meeting a director, and
they take one look at you and they believethis is the type of role you can play
the gift of being a company member atevery man is that that doesn't happen.
(06:02):
So I've played everything from, I mean,I'm a pretty, waspy looking gal, right?
the focus of my MFA was in, the classicsin Shakespeare That is something I'm very
passionate about, but at every man I play,everything from, from Ipsen to, to doing
Frankie and Johnny at the Clair balloon,to, playing Tracy and Sweat, which was
(06:24):
a, a very complicated, difficult play.
beautiful play.
I get to play in the classicsin a way that I really love and
that I'm very passionate about.
the gift is that the artistic director,Vince Lancisi, who's just a terrific
friend and a very talented man,he's the founding artistic director.
So he started this theater morethan 30 years ago, I think 35.
(06:45):
he doesn't look at meand just see one thing.
when you work with someone for thismany years, they get to know how
you can transform and then theyprovide a space to make that happen.
as an artist, it was my dream whenI was in the third grade and my mom,
we were on a trip from, my dad wasstationed at Shaw Air Force Base.
(07:05):
We took a family trip to Washington DC.
We went to all the monuments.
It was like, fourth row center,last minute, fourth row center
tickets at the Ford's Theater.
We saw Godspell.
it blew my mind and I said to my mom,how old are you in the third grade?
I said,
That's what I'm doing.
(07:25):
And she enrolled me in classesat the Sumter Little theater.
Where I happened to be taught by KatieDamron and Jan Taylor, brilliant,
talented artists who had landedin Sumter formed this theater.
And I learned so much about thereal work of a life as an actor.
(07:49):
and I tried not to do it for a while.
I worked for Congress for a while.
I was gonna go to law school.
But I was afraid.
So I got my MFA instead,and I graduated in 94.
And have been working steadily since.
my mom says, don't say you're lucky'cause it's hard work, but stay grateful.
I'm very grateful to have hadthe work that I've had and played
(08:11):
the roles that I've played.
Lauren Welch (08:13):
Deborah did you have a favorite role that
you'd like to share with us?
Deborah Hazlett (08:19):
You know, people ask me that a lot.
One of the gifts too, of every man isthe subscribers that are so, involved.
they see me do many different things.
They see all of us domany different things.
As a matter of fact, when I firstcame to the Cathedral in 2016, There
were a lot of subscribers there, andI remember being startled by that.
(08:40):
it was lovely.
They feel a bit like children theseroles and it's hard to pick a favorite.
I've had roles that havechanged me certainly.
Hedda Gabler.
It's an Ipsen play.
she's a complicated woman.
She's trapped and she's a complicatedwoman, but she does this thing in
(09:00):
the middle of the play where thismanuscript that this person's been
working on forever, and it's a playthat takes place a long time ago.
So it was a handwritten manuscript.
There would've only been one of them.
She burns it, she throws itin the oven and burns it.
somebody in the audience literallystood up and said, you are a psycho.
so that kind of relationship withthe audience is something that
you only get in live theater.
Hedda was important to me.
(09:21):
she was very difficult, character.
But I always make the argumentthat I can't judge these people.
I have to love these people becausewhen people are behaving badly.
They rarely think they're behaving badly.
That's just not how it works.
So I don't think these are bad people.
(09:42):
I can't, as an, as I'm playing therole, I have to find what motivates
them and why they do what they do.
sometimes the more difficultcharacters the more challenging it
is, the more satisfying it may be.
But then, I recently did a MidsummerNight's Dream, which was nothing
but delightful the whole time.
(10:04):
And then I said, I'm neverdoing another drama again.
I only do comedy.
it was fun and playful and I lovethe language people often say to me,
How do you play these intense rolesand not let it affect your life?
Well, it does affect your life.
(10:24):
I always say, I come off stage,all my sons, for example, beautiful
play, and the man who plays myhusband commits suicide at the end.
That's the last scene.
There's a gunshot and that's it.
death of a Salesman, where Willie.
kills himself in thecar at the end, right?
So I always say, you know, you go offstage you have the curtain call and
(10:48):
you go to the dressing room and youtake your wig off, but your body has
taken a physical emotional journey.
it's real important to have the toolsand skills to manage that in a way that
enhances your life thank God my lifeis not as dramatic all the time as my
characters' lives, when we all have timesin our lives where it's terribly dramatic
(11:11):
either terribly difficult or very joyful,
Not eight shows a week.
So it's very important to learnthe discipline of releasing.
what the journey hasbeen, if that makes sense.
Jon Shematek (11:23):
It does.
it's making me, think about howthese roles and, have affected you
personally is the impact that it musthave and does have on audience members.
we all need the experience of joy, thatyou were talking about with midsummer.
and we need to be thoughtful and provoked.
As watching Hedda Gabler wouldcertainly make people think it was
(11:48):
written a long time ago, but thethemes are so timeless and current.
Deborah Hazlett (11:53):
The.
Theme of a woman feeling trappedin a marriage and in a system
where she doesn't have agency.
And she is expected to behave, and live alife based on the expectations mostly of
men in Heda, gobbler, Ibsen writes aboutthis with Nora and Doll's House with Mrs.
And Ghosts the themes resonate
(12:16):
People whether you're a manor a woman the feeling of not
having agency in your own life issomething that people can recognize.
the catharsis between anyone on stage andthe audience is the reason I do the work.
the audience is anothercharacter in the play.
We feel you.
We feel you breathe.
(12:36):
We hear you laugh.
We can tell if you're bored.
We can tell if we're justnot funny that night.
Sometimes we're just not funny.
it's tremendous that sort of connectivity.
I always tell people if you go to a movietheater and there's nobody in the movie
theater, you're always really happy.
'cause you, oh good, Ican just watch the movie.
If you go into a live performancetheater and there's nobody
there, it's very disconcerting.
(12:58):
People want to have thatcommunal experience.
It's like being at church when the churchis full and you can just feel all that
connectivity and shared experience.
It's the same way, in the theater.
So I don't think AI can ever replace that.
Lauren Welch (13:15):
Deborah, as you're speaking the connection, the joy that you share,
how has this experience of acting andinteracting with the audience, how
has that, helped your spirit, or howhas that affected your spiritual life?
Deborah Hazlett (13:35):
I was away from church for a long time.
I was raised in the Episcopal church.
My grandpa was an Episcopal bishop.
like many folks in my late twenties,I moved away from the church.
I struggled with some of the concepts.
and I found.
Real spirituality in the theater.
(13:55):
it feels similar, the shared experiencebut also the mystery of the transformation
that happens in the room is, Somethingthat I can't explain to anyone, but
I know it when I am in church, Ioften have the same experience of.
(14:20):
What is actually what, in my mind,the Holy Spirit, just the work
of the Holy Spirit in the room.
And I have a little prayer I saybefore I go on stage every night and I
invite the Holy Spirit to travel withme to help me be, a vessel for truth.
that's a phrase I got froma dear friend of mine.
(14:40):
as to how it.
Helps my continued work onmy own connectivity to God
and my own spirituality.
It's a strong reminder of stayingpresent and listening and staying
open to what is before you.
as an actor, you have to listen.
pay attention to the beautyand the miracles that are
(15:02):
happening all around you.
The courage of the peoplearound you to do what they do.
I think more than anything, it's helpedme to be open to what's possible.
And when I came back to church in2016, I found out that Rob was an
ex-musical theater actor from New York.
I was like, oh, I foundmy place, I found my home.
(15:23):
I feel very grateful to organize thereader's ministry and do those trainings
because I hope I can bring some ofthese gifts to that ministry, and
invite other people to use themselves.
To tell the story even in a shorter way.
bringing who you are as areader to tell the story.
(15:43):
'cause that's what's important.
It's important because you arethe person telling the story.
So it's been a real, giftfor me to integrate that.
I hope that was clear.
Jon Shematek (15:55):
It absolutely was.
it's great to see that, integration.
I just find this wholediscussion so irresistible.
I do wanna get to Alexandertechnique, honest, but I did wanna,
Deborah Hazlett (16:05):
we could do another one about at, we,
Jon Shematek (16:07):
this might be long enough to split into two, right, Lauren?
anyway.
the thing I'm, I'm, thinking about,you know, the theater and Everyman
in particular, I'm so gratefulthat it survived COVID 'cause that
certainly killed a lot of art, andlive performance venues and so on.
these days, the theater and allarts, are really under, additional
(16:28):
threats, in terms of funding.
Yeah.
and so on.
And I assume that Everyman theaterhas, is being affected, by all that.
And I don't know if you wannacomment on that, but I certainly
want to let our viewers and listenersknow how they can be supportive.
of the work that Everyman'sdoing and that, that you and
your actor colleagues are doing.
Deborah Hazlett (16:50):
Go to the theater, buy a ticket, People have stopped.
It really took a hit during COVIDand for some reason, I don't know
if people just wanna stay homeand watch TV at night 'cause they
came to know what that feels like.
But.
The only way we can tell the storyis if there are people in the
theater to tell the story too.
And, the ticket sales are they're soimportant to keeping theaters alive,
(17:15):
but it's a ti it'd be surprised at whata small portion it is of the actual
money that keeps the theaters going.
Resources right now are not as availableas they have been in the past for
all kinds of complicated reasons.
So go to the theater, bringa friend to the theater.
The other thing is, one of the nice thingsabout the subscription model is that you
(17:36):
can pick the plays you want to go to.
this subscription model is great becauseyou are not gonna, like every play that
you see But you're gonna learn something.
my favorite, theater goers and subscribersare people that go to see a new play.
Maybe they don't like it, butthere's something about it that
touched them or moved them, orwe can talk about it afterwards.
(17:58):
I don't like every play I'm in, but,taking the risk on a new play, exposing
yourself to something unexpected.
we actually talk in the Alexandertechnique, although it's not, it's
not, only from the Alexander techniqueis coming with a beginner's mind.
I.
So that whatever is in front ofyou, you're able to stay open to
(18:20):
and see what you can discover.
I say to people, go to the theater.
Go to the the go.
To Everyman.
Subscribe to Everyman.
But there's wonderfulcommunity theater in this city.
the DIY theaters, these young artiststhat are doing extraordinary work.
So just leave home, go to thetheater at Everyman, for example,
(18:40):
and this is a national trend.
we've moved the evening curtains fromseven to eight and the matinees on
Saturdays and Sundays from two to one.
Now people like the seven o'clock,but they like the two o'clock.
But the union has a rule that there hasto be a certain amount of time between
shows so the actors can eat and rest.
(19:00):
So if we're gonna move it toseven, we can't do the two o'clock.
seven o'clock and you can be home andin bed by nine 30 if you want to be.
lots of theaters are doingthat 'cause people just don't
stay out like they used to.
I have a friend who runs a restaurantand they're dealing with the same thing.
people don't go out toeat at 10 o'clock anymore.
so go to the theater, take classes.
There's a wonderful educationdepartment at Everyman.
(19:21):
I just taught a new class for, theAlexander Technique and actors, I'm
still so excited about it because I wasworking on this particular syllabus and
curriculum to see if I could integratethese two passions in a way that,
would help expand what's possible forthe actors in the class, and their
(19:42):
agency around their performances
How they can use their bodies totell the story they want to tell.
And after six weeks with thisglorious group of students, worked.
It was so exciting.
most theaters have an education component.
We have, summer classes allsummer for young kids to get
them interested in theater.
the education department is agreat way to help support, how
(20:05):
we bring money into the theater.
You can just go onlineand donate if you want to.
Jon Shematek (20:10):
Great.
Deborah Hazlett (20:10):
gonna stay alive if audiences don't go.
That we know for sure thatwe learned during COVID.
We knew it anyway, but
Jon Shematek (20:16):
yeah.
So, Debra, we will have theeveryman, website in our show
notes so people can find it easily.
Great.
and buy tickets, subscribe.
Look at the educational offerings.
I'm sure there's a donatebutton on that site.
And I know, Lauren, you're just itchingto ask about Alexander techniques,
so I'll be quiet it's been a teaser.
It's come in like four times already.
(20:38):
And you alluded to it
Lauren Welch (20:39):
certainly has.
and, Deborah, I'm like, Jon,I don't know much about it.
I had a friend who did, practice it,but, tell us what Alexandra technique
is and, how you use it in your own life.
Deborah Hazlett (20:55):
It's basically a reeducation process for
change, but for the body, right?
a lot of people know about,mindfulness these days.
A lot of us meditate, and ATis mindfulness for the body
because we often leave our bodiesout that mindfulness journey.
and it was, we study it as actors.
(21:15):
It was developed by a man namedFrederick Matthias Alexander.
He, in the late 18 hundreds intothe early 19 hundreds, he was an
Australian actor in a time where the,performance style was very declarative.
They would come down to theedge of the stage and sort of.
Declare.
he found he kept losing his voiceand he was an actor in demand, but
(21:38):
he would lose his voice all the time.
So he finally quit for a year, he studiedhimself in the mirror and found that he
didn't lose his voice in life, but everytime he would perform, he would throw
his head back and expand his chest hewas putting so much compression in the
back of his neck and on his vocal cordsthat he would, he would lose his voice.
(22:03):
So he came to discover theimportance of the head, neck, spine,
relationship, and performance.
We studied as actors becausewe have to do eight shows a
week without losing our voices.
it's become a practice For thewhole body and its basic idea
is that it helps through we sayit's not a do, it's a think.
(22:25):
it's a gentle practice ofnon-judgmental noticing of habituated
physical response to stimulus.
developing your sensory awarenessso that you are noticing physical
habit and learning to inhibitthat habituated response.
in that moment of pause is whereyou have the agency to direct, and
(22:46):
that's where you direct yourselfin the way that you would like.
To respond so that you are inyour best use, we talk about.
the means whereby we do something.
We forget that part.
The means whereby we get from thefirst floor to the second floor.
At my age anyway, I shouldn't be doinganything else on the stairs except
(23:08):
thinking about being on the stairs,
But we're so busy with all these otherthings that we make mistakes, we trip and
so it's an example of the being mindfulof the means whereby we move through life.
And it can help enormously with habituatedpatterns of tension back trouble.
(23:30):
For me, my jaw, I, I have to, I think Ihave to clench my jaw to pick up a pen.
I think I have to clench my jaw to pull acoffee cup off the cupboard shelf, so it's
about identifying where you habituate.
Tension and holding througha hands-on somatic practice.
(23:50):
I work with a massage table withclients, and help people learn to
create and maintain ease in the body.
The biggest thing that I have found inmy work is that component of inhibition,
the pause that allows for choice,the pause that allows for change.
(24:12):
it turns into, a thought thataffects, not just your body,
but also your emotional state.
If you allow yourself to pause, then Ican be much more open to what is coming.
my instrument is very fluttery andunless I'm in a wig in a costume, I can
get quite nervous and uncomfortable,and then I talk really fast and get
distracted and don't finish sentences
(24:33):
And AT has helped me.
It's slow.
Change is slow, but it is, it'shelping me just learn to go through
my basic directions and to find ease.
the basic Alexander, the directionshe came up with were free the neck
(24:57):
to allow the spine to lengthen,to allow the torso to widen.
Directions for the body that create ease,the head and neck spine relationship.
This is really cool.
do you have an idea of where yourhead actually meets your spine?
If you do, put your hand whereyou think your head attaches
to the top of your spine.
(25:18):
I can't see Jon, but Lauren is here.
It actually attaches to the spineat the Atlantic occipital joint.
Don't have to worry about that.
But if you put your fingers, likeyou're gonna plug your ears and
you nod here, that's how high up.
That is where the skull sitsat the top of the spine, almost
like a mortar and pestle.
(25:39):
So we think that we have toinvolve the, we compress the
backs of our necks like this.
That is 60 pounds of pressure onthe spine when you tilt your head
like this and look at your phone.
So the head, neck, spine relationshipis really about learning to get
that head to sit on the spinein a way that creates space.
(26:03):
And when we say free the neck,it's releasing all those muscles
in the neck that allow the spineto lengthen and the torso to widen.
That is basically what it's about.
Then there's many other thingsthat we learn, but it's an approach
that for me, has invited changein my body that has been profe.
(26:25):
I haven't thrown my back outsince I finished my studying.
it's great for chronic pain because youidentify the use of your body that is
maybe contributing to that chronic pain.
It's a teacher student model becauseI'm not a medical practitioner
and we don't pretend to be.
So we call it a lesson, whichI think is really, important
(26:49):
because I can help a lot with use.
there's structural injury that adoctor would have to deal with.
But teachers can usually helpbecause there's a release of
muscle that can happen with thiswork that might give you some help
around a structural injury as well.
But we don't pretend tobe medical practitioners.
(27:11):
, That's sort of it in a nutshell, butit's so much cooler than that nutshell.
Jon Shematek (27:16):
That's, it sounds very, intriguing and promising.
Like it really, could be helpful.
Now, you mentioned you've been teachingthis in classes to actors, but you
also, have one-on-one instruction,how do people find out about that?
Deborah Hazlett (27:32):
so far people are finding me through the theater at Everyman.
But they are not responsible for my pro.
That's if you want coaching orwant to take a class at Everyman.
Okay.
I'm in the process of gettinga website up and running.
So people will be able tofind me through my name.
but right now Everyman doesnot, I have anything to do with
scheduling, my private work.
but for coaching, for audition andthings like that I, we go through
(27:56):
the education department there.
Jon Shematek (27:58):
so what I'd say is when you get your website, let us know and we will
attach that to this podcast, as well.
Lauren, did you have any other, questionsfor Deborah about, or anything else?
Lauren Welch (28:13):
Deborah.
Yes.
I mean, you have sharedso much with us today.
your joy and passion for actingand, finding the mystery, the divine
mystery in acting as well as in church.
and How it has enhanced your spirituallife, and you've just shared with
us, how, the Alexander techniquecan help us embody mind and spirit.
(28:39):
What other advice would youlike to share with those who
are watching and listing now?
Deborah Hazlett (28:45):
It is an interesting time in my life, to be getting
older in this business and, tocoming out of COVID, getting
older, and the Alexander technique.
All of those things have helped medevelop an agency for myself in how.
I want to experience thisnext part of my life.
(29:07):
as actors, we often feelwe don't have any agency.
we audition for a director.
We don't get to pick the plays.
But we do have agency about whatwe say yes to and what we say no
to about how we are in the roomabout how we treat our colleagues.
And this is reallyinteresting to me, Lauren.
I've been thinking so much latelyabout the intersection of my spiritual
(29:28):
life and my work and my acting work,
I think that we can all find agency inways that we possibly haven't thought
possible, and it all just has to dowith how we choose to be in community
and how we choose to respond withhopefully grace and kindness and a
beginner's mind, we don't have to think.
(29:50):
We know everything.
We know the things we know, but there'sso much else out there and at a time where
people are really not listening very well.
I think that if we just.
Take a pause and allow for breath andlet go of the holding and the fear and
(30:11):
the tension so that we can stay present.
Then maybe we can help affect changeand create a loving community.
So I'm still working on this intersection.
I've been thinking a lot about it.
I'm experiencing it into prettyprofound places in my life, the
church and, and the theater.
(30:33):
I don't know if that's advice, butthat's what I'm thinking about.
Jon Shematek (30:36):
It sounded like great advice to me, Deborah.
So Deborah Hazlett, thank you so muchfor being with us on our podcast.
We have enjoyed spending this timewith you, your wisdom, your presence.
Thanks.
Deborah Hazlett (30:49):
Well, I am delighted to be with both of you
and I'm sure I'll see you soon,
Lauren Welch (30:54):
Jon and I want to thank all who are watching and listening for
the gift of your time with us today.
Until next time, peace and blessings.
Lynn Shematek (31:04):
This episode of Good News has been brought
to you by Listening for Clues.
For more podcasts, check outour YouTube channel or our
website listening for clues.com.
Hello, friends.
Today we meet Deborah Hazlett for whomacting is more than just a performance.
It's part of a personal,spiritual journey.
Deborah talks with Good News teamabout how her varied experiences
on stage connect with the DivineMystery within herself and the
collective soul of the audience.
(00:22):
Join us as we explore thisinterplay between art and spirit.
Jon Shematek (00:27):
Deborah Hazlett, welcome to our podcast.
We're thrilled to have you here today.
Deborah Hazlett (00:33):
Thank you.
I am delighted to be here.
Jon Shematek (00:35):
So Deborah, you are a professional actress.
You've been part of the Every man theater,resident acting company for a couple
of decades plus, you are a teacher ofsomething that I don't know anything
about called the Alexander Technique.
we'd really love to hear about youyour career and the Alexander technique
Deborah Hazlett (00:56):
I've been at Everyman for, this is my 28th year.
it's been pivotal for my developmentas an artist because a lot of people
in this country, at least people Irun into, don't know that being a
regional theater actor a full-time job.
they know a lot about film andtelevision actors and Broadway,
but they don't know a lot aboutwhat we call being in the regions.
(01:19):
I lived in New York for years andhave had an agent there for years and.
have worked outside of Baltimore and,had wonderful, wonderful experiences, but
it's been so important to have an artistichome where I feel that I have a voice as
an artist where I feel my opinion and myjourney is important to the folks around
(01:40):
me who I consider my theater family.
So it's been my artistichome now for a long time.
And the gift of that is that I have,some agency as an artist, I can
talk about what's important to me.
I work with people.
I consider my family, whether it'sthe stage managers the shop, the
crew, the wonderful administrativestaff, the front of house folks.
(02:03):
often when you are hired and goto work in a theater, you just
don't get to know those people.
everyone's kind, but you aren'texposed as an actor to those folks.
so those people are my theater family.
but I've also enjoyed, auditioningin New York and working in theaters
where I don't know anyone at all,
Opportunity to start over and recreateyourself every time you go into a
(02:25):
new rehearsal hall where you mayonly have met the director in New
York at an audition and a callback.
some of that is virtual these dayssince COVID, a lot of that has changed.
and then there you are and you showup and you have an intense eight to 10
weeks with folks and then you go home.
So the consistency at Everymanhas really, helped me.
(02:46):
Develop myself as an artist, artist ina place where I felt safe and welcomed.
We talk at every man a lotabout the rehearsal hall.
I actually like rehearsalbetter than I like performance.
in the rehearsal hall, you getto risk and fall down and make
mistakes and we try something andthen we say, oh, that didn't work.
(03:06):
But then we get to tryagain It's great fun.
It's work too.
people still ask me after allthese years, what do I actually do?
the rehearsal week is seven daysa week, eight to 10 hours a day.
and then you have eight showsa week, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday nights, two shows.
Saturday, two shows Sunday,sometimes a matinee during the week.
(03:28):
So it's an intense processthat requires, a full-time job.
And this is when you are workingin a union house, which Everyman
is, it's hard to have anotherkind of job when you're working.
You're not always working.
So there's lots of in-betweensand that's where I found my
teaching to really sustain me.
(03:50):
I have an MFA, which is a threeyear, terminal program for actors.
It's a funny word, it soundslike, we die at the end of it, but
they called it terminal degree.
It's the last one you can get asan actor, and that is what you need
to teach at the university level.
But also I teach fortheaters when I work there.
(04:10):
And, but during COVID, as youknow, all the theaters shut down.
Everything went dark.
I had just started my, teachertraining for a certificate
in the Alexander technique.
There happened to be atMid-Atlantic here in Baltimore.
Happened to be run by abrilliant woman, Nancy Bermuda.
(04:31):
And we were able to keep that going.
And I spent, it's a 1600 hourcertification, so I spent a lot of the one
and a half years of COVID where theaterswere shut down and then completed my
training once we started working again.
This time through studying it hasreally transformed my work, but
(04:53):
also my life in a lot of ways.
So it's been pretty spectacular.
Jon Shematek (04:58):
Wow.
Well, we sure wanna hear about that.
I think it's probably a goodtime to just tell us a bit more
about, Alexander Technique.
And I do wanna loop back, to hear abit more about, your acting career
and the impact that's had on yourlife, particularly on your inner
self, your spiritual life, you weretalking about that wonderful sense
of family, at Everyman that, thatyou've had and, which is awesome.
(05:21):
I'm also interested in the audiencecomponent of that and the impact?
I know you've been in ahuge variety of roles.
I've seen you in several verydifferent roles and, mm-hmm.
So, I don't know, you want, you, youwanna talk about Alexander or talk
a little bit more about, Everymanand what, what goes on there?
Deborah Hazlett (05:39):
Let's, talk about every man just to keep a through line.
so often in this businessyou can be, typecast.
when you don't know folks very well inNew York you're meeting a director, and
they take one look at you and they believethis is the type of role you can play
the gift of being a company member atevery man is that that doesn't happen.
(06:02):
So I've played everything from, I mean,I'm a pretty, waspy looking gal, right?
the focus of my MFA was in, the classicsin Shakespeare That is something I'm very
passionate about, but at every man I play,everything from, from Ipsen to, to doing
Frankie and Johnny at the Clair balloon,to, playing Tracy and Sweat, which was
(06:24):
a, a very complicated, difficult play.
beautiful play.
I get to play in the classicsin a way that I really love and
that I'm very passionate about.
the gift is that the artistic director,Vince Lancisi, who's just a terrific
friend and a very talented man,he's the founding artistic director.
So he started this theater morethan 30 years ago, I think 35.
(06:45):
he doesn't look at meand just see one thing.
when you work with someone for thismany years, they get to know how
you can transform and then theyprovide a space to make that happen.
as an artist, it was my dream whenI was in the third grade and my mom,
we were on a trip from, my dad wasstationed at Shaw Air Force Base.
(07:05):
We took a family trip to Washington DC.
We went to all the monuments.
It was like, fourth row center,last minute, fourth row center
tickets at the Ford's Theater.
We saw Godspell.
it blew my mind and I said to my mom,how old are you in the third grade?
I said,
That's what I'm doing.
(07:25):
And she enrolled me in classesat the Sumter Little theater.
Where I happened to be taught by KatieDamron and Jan Taylor, brilliant,
talented artists who had landedin Sumter formed this theater.
And I learned so much about thereal work of a life as an actor.
(07:49):
and I tried not to do it for a while.
I worked for Congress for a while.
I was gonna go to law school.
But I was afraid.
So I got my MFA instead,and I graduated in 94.
And have been working steadily since.
my mom says, don't say you're lucky'cause it's hard work, but stay grateful.
I'm very grateful to have hadthe work that I've had and played
(08:11):
the roles that I've played.
Lauren Welch (08:13):
Deborah did you have a favorite role that
you'd like to share with us?
Deborah Hazlett (08:19):
You know, people ask me that a lot.
One of the gifts too, of every man isthe subscribers that are so, involved.
they see me do many different things.
They see all of us domany different things.
As a matter of fact, when I firstcame to the Cathedral in 2016, There
were a lot of subscribers there, andI remember being startled by that.
(08:40):
it was lovely.
They feel a bit like children theseroles and it's hard to pick a favorite.
I've had roles that havechanged me certainly.
Hedda Gabler.
It's an Ipsen play.
she's a complicated woman.
She's trapped and she's a complicatedwoman, but she does this thing in
(09:00):
the middle of the play where thismanuscript that this person's been
working on forever, and it's a playthat takes place a long time ago.
So it was a handwritten manuscript.
There would've only been one of them.
She burns it, she throws itin the oven and burns it.
somebody in the audience literallystood up and said, you are a psycho.
so that kind of relationship withthe audience is something that
you only get in live theater.
Hedda was important to me.
(09:21):
she was very difficult, character.
But I always make the argumentthat I can't judge these people.
I have to love these people becausewhen people are behaving badly.
They rarely think they're behaving badly.
That's just not how it works.
So I don't think these are bad people.
(09:42):
I can't, as an, as I'm playing therole, I have to find what motivates
them and why they do what they do.
sometimes the more difficultcharacters the more challenging it
is, the more satisfying it may be.
But then, I recently did a MidsummerNight's Dream, which was nothing
but delightful the whole time.
(10:04):
And then I said, I'm neverdoing another drama again.
I only do comedy.
it was fun and playful and I lovethe language people often say to me,
How do you play these intense rolesand not let it affect your life?
Well, it does affect your life.
(10:24):
I always say, I come off stage,all my sons, for example, beautiful
play, and the man who plays myhusband commits suicide at the end.
That's the last scene.
There's a gunshot and that's it.
death of a Salesman, where Willie.
kills himself in thecar at the end, right?
So I always say, you know, you go offstage you have the curtain call and
(10:48):
you go to the dressing room and youtake your wig off, but your body has
taken a physical emotional journey.
it's real important to have the toolsand skills to manage that in a way that
enhances your life thank God my lifeis not as dramatic all the time as my
characters' lives, when we all have timesin our lives where it's terribly dramatic
(11:11):
either terribly difficult or very joyful,
Not eight shows a week.
So it's very important to learnthe discipline of releasing.
what the journey hasbeen, if that makes sense.
Jon Shematek (11:23):
It does.
it's making me, think about howthese roles and, have affected you
personally is the impact that it musthave and does have on audience members.
we all need the experience of joy, thatyou were talking about with midsummer.
and we need to be thoughtful and provoked.
As watching Hedda Gabler wouldcertainly make people think it was
(11:48):
written a long time ago, but thethemes are so timeless and current.
Deborah Hazlett (11:53):
The.
Theme of a woman feeling trappedin a marriage and in a system
where she doesn't have agency.
And she is expected to behave, and live alife based on the expectations mostly of
men in Heda, gobbler, Ibsen writes aboutthis with Nora and Doll's House with Mrs.
And Ghosts the themes resonate
(12:16):
People whether you're a manor a woman the feeling of not
having agency in your own life issomething that people can recognize.
the catharsis between anyone on stage andthe audience is the reason I do the work.
the audience is anothercharacter in the play.
We feel you.
We feel you breathe.
(12:36):
We hear you laugh.
We can tell if you're bored.
We can tell if we're justnot funny that night.
Sometimes we're just not funny.
it's tremendous that sort of connectivity.
I always tell people if you go to a movietheater and there's nobody in the movie
theater, you're always really happy.
'cause you, oh good, Ican just watch the movie.
If you go into a live performancetheater and there's nobody
there, it's very disconcerting.
(12:58):
People want to have thatcommunal experience.
It's like being at church when the churchis full and you can just feel all that
connectivity and shared experience.
It's the same way, in the theater.
So I don't think AI can ever replace that.
Lauren Welch (13:15):
Deborah, as you're speaking the connection, the joy that you share,
how has this experience of acting andinteracting with the audience, how
has that, helped your spirit, or howhas that affected your spiritual life?
Deborah Hazlett (13:35):
I was away from church for a long time.
I was raised in the Episcopal church.
My grandpa was an Episcopal bishop.
like many folks in my late twenties,I moved away from the church.
I struggled with some of the concepts.
and I found.
Real spirituality in the theater.
(13:55):
it feels similar, the shared experiencebut also the mystery of the transformation
that happens in the room is, Somethingthat I can't explain to anyone, but
I know it when I am in church, Ioften have the same experience of.
(14:20):
What is actually what, in my mind,the Holy Spirit, just the work
of the Holy Spirit in the room.
And I have a little prayer I saybefore I go on stage every night and I
invite the Holy Spirit to travel withme to help me be, a vessel for truth.
that's a phrase I got froma dear friend of mine.
(14:40):
as to how it.
Helps my continued work onmy own connectivity to God
and my own spirituality.
It's a strong reminder of stayingpresent and listening and staying
open to what is before you.
as an actor, you have to listen.
pay attention to the beautyand the miracles that are
(15:02):
happening all around you.
The courage of the peoplearound you to do what they do.
I think more than anything, it's helpedme to be open to what's possible.
And when I came back to church in2016, I found out that Rob was an
ex-musical theater actor from New York.
I was like, oh, I foundmy place, I found my home.
(15:23):
I feel very grateful to organize thereader's ministry and do those trainings
because I hope I can bring some ofthese gifts to that ministry, and
invite other people to use themselves.
To tell the story even in a shorter way.
bringing who you are as areader to tell the story.
(15:43):
'cause that's what's important.
It's important because you arethe person telling the story.
So it's been a real, giftfor me to integrate that.
I hope that was clear.
Jon Shematek (15:55):
It absolutely was.
it's great to see that, integration.
I just find this wholediscussion so irresistible.
I do wanna get to Alexandertechnique, honest, but I did wanna,
Deborah Hazlett (16:05):
we could do another one about at, we,
Jon Shematek (16:07):
this might be long enough to split into two, right, Lauren?
anyway.
the thing I'm, I'm, thinking about,you know, the theater and Everyman
in particular, I'm so gratefulthat it survived COVID 'cause that
certainly killed a lot of art, andlive performance venues and so on.
these days, the theater and allarts, are really under, additional
(16:28):
threats, in terms of funding.
Yeah.
and so on.
And I assume that Everyman theaterhas, is being affected, by all that.
And I don't know if you wannacomment on that, but I certainly
want to let our viewers and listenersknow how they can be supportive.
of the work that Everyman'sdoing and that, that you and
your actor colleagues are doing.
Deborah Hazlett (16:50):
Go to the theater, buy a ticket, People have stopped.
It really took a hit during COVIDand for some reason, I don't know
if people just wanna stay homeand watch TV at night 'cause they
came to know what that feels like.
But.
The only way we can tell the storyis if there are people in the
theater to tell the story too.
And, the ticket sales are they're soimportant to keeping theaters alive,
(17:15):
but it's a ti it'd be surprised at whata small portion it is of the actual
money that keeps the theaters going.
Resources right now are not as availableas they have been in the past for
all kinds of complicated reasons.
So go to the theater, bringa friend to the theater.
The other thing is, one of the nice thingsabout the subscription model is that you
(17:36):
can pick the plays you want to go to.
this subscription model is great becauseyou are not gonna, like every play that
you see But you're gonna learn something.
my favorite, theater goers and subscribersare people that go to see a new play.
Maybe they don't like it, butthere's something about it that
touched them or moved them, orwe can talk about it afterwards.
(17:58):
I don't like every play I'm in, but,taking the risk on a new play, exposing
yourself to something unexpected.
we actually talk in the Alexandertechnique, although it's not, it's
not, only from the Alexander techniqueis coming with a beginner's mind.
I.
So that whatever is in front ofyou, you're able to stay open to
(18:20):
and see what you can discover.
I say to people, go to the theater.
Go to the the go.
To Everyman.
Subscribe to Everyman.
But there's wonderfulcommunity theater in this city.
the DIY theaters, these young artiststhat are doing extraordinary work.
So just leave home, go to thetheater at Everyman, for example,
(18:40):
and this is a national trend.
we've moved the evening curtains fromseven to eight and the matinees on
Saturdays and Sundays from two to one.
Now people like the seven o'clock,but they like the two o'clock.
But the union has a rule that there hasto be a certain amount of time between
shows so the actors can eat and rest.
(19:00):
So if we're gonna move it toseven, we can't do the two o'clock.
seven o'clock and you can be home andin bed by nine 30 if you want to be.
lots of theaters are doingthat 'cause people just don't
stay out like they used to.
I have a friend who runs a restaurantand they're dealing with the same thing.
people don't go out toeat at 10 o'clock anymore.
so go to the theater, take classes.
There's a wonderful educationdepartment at Everyman.
(19:21):
I just taught a new class for, theAlexander Technique and actors, I'm
still so excited about it because I wasworking on this particular syllabus and
curriculum to see if I could integratethese two passions in a way that,
would help expand what's possible forthe actors in the class, and their
(19:42):
agency around their performances
How they can use their bodies totell the story they want to tell.
And after six weeks with thisglorious group of students, worked.
It was so exciting.
most theaters have an education component.
We have, summer classes allsummer for young kids to get
them interested in theater.
the education department is agreat way to help support, how
(20:05):
we bring money into the theater.
You can just go onlineand donate if you want to.
Jon Shematek (20:10):
Great.
Deborah Hazlett (20:10):
gonna stay alive if audiences don't go.
That we know for sure thatwe learned during COVID.
We knew it anyway, but
Jon Shematek (20:16):
yeah.
So, Debra, we will have theeveryman, website in our show
notes so people can find it easily.
Great.
and buy tickets, subscribe.
Look at the educational offerings.
I'm sure there's a donatebutton on that site.
And I know, Lauren, you're just itchingto ask about Alexander techniques,
so I'll be quiet it's been a teaser.
It's come in like four times already.
(20:38):
And you alluded to it
Lauren Welch (20:39):
certainly has.
and, Deborah, I'm like, Jon,I don't know much about it.
I had a friend who did, practice it,but, tell us what Alexandra technique
is and, how you use it in your own life.
Deborah Hazlett (20:55):
It's basically a reeducation process for
change, but for the body, right?
a lot of people know about,mindfulness these days.
A lot of us meditate, and ATis mindfulness for the body
because we often leave our bodiesout that mindfulness journey.
and it was, we study it as actors.
(21:15):
It was developed by a man namedFrederick Matthias Alexander.
He, in the late 18 hundreds intothe early 19 hundreds, he was an
Australian actor in a time where the,performance style was very declarative.
They would come down to theedge of the stage and sort of.
Declare.
he found he kept losing his voiceand he was an actor in demand, but
(21:38):
he would lose his voice all the time.
So he finally quit for a year, he studiedhimself in the mirror and found that he
didn't lose his voice in life, but everytime he would perform, he would throw
his head back and expand his chest hewas putting so much compression in the
back of his neck and on his vocal cordsthat he would, he would lose his voice.
(22:03):
So he came to discover theimportance of the head, neck, spine,
relationship, and performance.
We studied as actors becausewe have to do eight shows a
week without losing our voices.
it's become a practice For thewhole body and its basic idea
is that it helps through we sayit's not a do, it's a think.
(22:25):
it's a gentle practice ofnon-judgmental noticing of habituated
physical response to stimulus.
developing your sensory awarenessso that you are noticing physical
habit and learning to inhibitthat habituated response.
in that moment of pause is whereyou have the agency to direct, and
(22:46):
that's where you direct yourselfin the way that you would like.
To respond so that you are inyour best use, we talk about.
the means whereby we do something.
We forget that part.
The means whereby we get from thefirst floor to the second floor.
At my age anyway, I shouldn't be doinganything else on the stairs except
(23:08):
thinking about being on the stairs,
But we're so busy with all these otherthings that we make mistakes, we trip and
so it's an example of the being mindfulof the means whereby we move through life.
And it can help enormously with habituatedpatterns of tension back trouble.
(23:30):
For me, my jaw, I, I have to, I think Ihave to clench my jaw to pick up a pen.
I think I have to clench my jaw to pull acoffee cup off the cupboard shelf, so it's
about identifying where you habituate.
Tension and holding througha hands-on somatic practice.
(23:50):
I work with a massage table withclients, and help people learn to
create and maintain ease in the body.
The biggest thing that I have found inmy work is that component of inhibition,
the pause that allows for choice,the pause that allows for change.
(24:12):
it turns into, a thought thataffects, not just your body,
but also your emotional state.
If you allow yourself to pause, then Ican be much more open to what is coming.
my instrument is very fluttery andunless I'm in a wig in a costume, I can
get quite nervous and uncomfortable,and then I talk really fast and get
distracted and don't finish sentences
(24:33):
And AT has helped me.
It's slow.
Change is slow, but it is, it'shelping me just learn to go through
my basic directions and to find ease.
the basic Alexander, the directionshe came up with were free the neck
(24:57):
to allow the spine to lengthen,to allow the torso to widen.
Directions for the body that create ease,the head and neck spine relationship.
This is really cool.
do you have an idea of where yourhead actually meets your spine?
If you do, put your hand whereyou think your head attaches
to the top of your spine.
(25:18):
I can't see Jon, but Lauren is here.
It actually attaches to the spineat the Atlantic occipital joint.
Don't have to worry about that.
But if you put your fingers, likeyou're gonna plug your ears and
you nod here, that's how high up.
That is where the skull sitsat the top of the spine, almost
like a mortar and pestle.
(25:39):
So we think that we have toinvolve the, we compress the
backs of our necks like this.
That is 60 pounds of pressure onthe spine when you tilt your head
like this and look at your phone.
So the head, neck, spine relationshipis really about learning to get
that head to sit on the spinein a way that creates space.
(26:03):
And when we say free the neck,it's releasing all those muscles
in the neck that allow the spineto lengthen and the torso to widen.
That is basically what it's about.
Then there's many other thingsthat we learn, but it's an approach
that for me, has invited changein my body that has been profe.
(26:25):
I haven't thrown my back outsince I finished my studying.
it's great for chronic pain because youidentify the use of your body that is
maybe contributing to that chronic pain.
It's a teacher student model becauseI'm not a medical practitioner
and we don't pretend to be.
So we call it a lesson, whichI think is really, important
(26:49):
because I can help a lot with use.
there's structural injury that adoctor would have to deal with.
But teachers can usually helpbecause there's a release of
muscle that can happen with thiswork that might give you some help
around a structural injury as well.
But we don't pretend tobe medical practitioners.
(27:11):
, That's sort of it in a nutshell, butit's so much cooler than that nutshell.
Jon Shematek (27:16):
That's, it sounds very, intriguing and promising.
Like it really, could be helpful.
Now, you mentioned you've been teachingthis in classes to actors, but you
also, have one-on-one instruction,how do people find out about that?
Deborah Hazlett (27:32):
so far people are finding me through the theater at Everyman.
But they are not responsible for my pro.
That's if you want coaching orwant to take a class at Everyman.
Okay.
I'm in the process of gettinga website up and running.
So people will be able tofind me through my name.
but right now Everyman doesnot, I have anything to do with
scheduling, my private work.
but for coaching, for audition andthings like that I, we go through
(27:56):
the education department there.
Jon Shematek (27:58):
so what I'd say is when you get your website, let us know and we will
attach that to this podcast, as well.
Lauren, did you have any other, questionsfor Deborah about, or anything else?
Lauren Welch (28:13):
Deborah.
Yes.
I mean, you have sharedso much with us today.
your joy and passion for actingand, finding the mystery, the divine
mystery in acting as well as in church.
and How it has enhanced your spirituallife, and you've just shared with
us, how, the Alexander techniquecan help us embody mind and spirit.
(28:39):
What other advice would youlike to share with those who
are watching and listing now?
Deborah Hazlett (28:45):
It is an interesting time in my life, to be getting
older in this business and, tocoming out of COVID, getting
older, and the Alexander technique.
All of those things have helped medevelop an agency for myself in how.
I want to experience thisnext part of my life.
(29:07):
as actors, we often feelwe don't have any agency.
we audition for a director.
We don't get to pick the plays.
But we do have agency about whatwe say yes to and what we say no
to about how we are in the roomabout how we treat our colleagues.
And this is reallyinteresting to me, Lauren.
I've been thinking so much latelyabout the intersection of my spiritual
(29:28):
life and my work and my acting work,
I think that we can all find agency inways that we possibly haven't thought
possible, and it all just has to dowith how we choose to be in community
and how we choose to respond withhopefully grace and kindness and a
beginner's mind, we don't have to think.
(29:50):
We know everything.
We know the things we know, but there'sso much else out there and at a time where
people are really not listening very well.
I think that if we just.
Take a pause and allow for breath andlet go of the holding and the fear and
(30:11):
the tension so that we can stay present.
Then maybe we can help affect changeand create a loving community.
So I'm still working on this intersection.
I've been thinking a lot about it.
I'm experiencing it into prettyprofound places in my life, the
church and, and the theater.
(30:33):
I don't know if that's advice, butthat's what I'm thinking about.
Jon Shematek (30:36):
It sounded like great advice to me, Deborah.
So Deborah Hazlett, thank you so muchfor being with us on our podcast.
We have enjoyed spending this timewith you, your wisdom, your presence.
Thanks.
Deborah Hazlett (30:49):
Well, I am delighted to be with both of you
and I'm sure I'll see you soon,
Lauren Welch (30:54):
Jon and I want to thank all who are watching and listening for
the gift of your time with us today.
Until next time, peace and blessings.
Lynn Shematek (31:04):
This episode of Good News has been brought
to you by Listening for Clues.
For more podcasts, check outour YouTube channel or our
website listening for clues.com.
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