February 26, 2025 • 10 mins
This episode explores the final Beatitude, 'Blessed are those who are persecuted for the cause of right, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.' The discussion delves into the complexity and difficulty of this teaching, examining what Jesus might have meant by persecution leading to happiness and blessedness. The hosts discuss the difference between unjust persecution and persecution for righteous causes, highlighting examples from history and contemporary life. They emphasize the role of change, peacemaking, and striving for justice in a Christian's life, acknowledging that these pursuits often lead to societal resistance. The episode concludes by encouraging listeners to reflect on the changes in their lives and the importance of embracing them to fulfill the essence of the Beatitudes.
00:00 Introduction to the Final Beatitude
00:30 Understanding Persecution in Context
01:02 The Deeper Meaning of Persecution
02:44 Prophets and Persecution
04:37 Modern Examples of Persecution
06:32 The Role of Change in Persecution
08:38 Embracing Change and Hope
10:09 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Catch us on website: https://listeningforclues.com/
© 2025 Listening for Clues
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dolores (00:00):
We come now to the final beatitude, the one that may be
(00:03):
the most complex, challengingand difficult to accept.
So let's join a conversation withour Good News team Lynn Shematek,
Lauren Welch and Jon Shematek.
Lauren (00:12):
Our Beatitude today is, Blessed are those who are
persecuted in the cause of right.
Theirs is a kingdom of heaven.
Jesus saved the tough one for last.
Jon (00:30):
This is the hardest one, I think.
Lauren (00:34):
Who wants to be persecuted?
Lynn (00:37):
Not me.
Lauren (00:39):
So what did Jesus mean by this?
It is good, unless sometimesis, translated as happy.
So happy are those who are persecuted.
What might Jesus mean by this?
Jon (00:51):
I think that's what makes this, one of the more difficult, beatitudes
to grasp or buy into because, youasked the great question at the
beginning, who wants to be persecuted?
The answer has got to be no,nobody wants to be persecuted.
I think that would not be asign of a healthy person if
you wanted to be persecuted.
If we look deeper, the persecutionis actually for a reason.
(01:18):
you're not being persecutedbecause someone disagrees with
you politically, let's say.
There's no blessedness to being persecutedbecause of the color of your skin the
language you speak your sexual identityor preferences, your gender, your age.
There's no blessing in beingpersecuted because of those things.
those are all injustices in the world.
(01:39):
But what is Jesus really sayingabout what kind of persecution
can lead to blessedness?
Can lead to happiness,as you said, Lauren.
That word is supposed to be happy, too.
When can, what kind of persecution,or for what reason, can someone
being persecuted actually lead to ahappy or fulfilled life in some way.
Lynn (02:03):
the person is being persecuted because they believe in Jesus.
They show they believe in Jesus andGod by the love in their heart, their
peacemaking abilities and all that.
And then they're persecuted because peoplecan be petty, they can be, just evil.
(02:27):
and they will persecute you.
if you have those feelings in yourheart, then you are probably feeling
closer to God, closer to Jesus, andcloser to the Kingdom of Heaven.
Jon (02:43):
Yeah, I think there's something to that for sure.
a lot of what you were talking about,Jesus as he goes on there's more to
that beatitude than on that piece.
The verse continues and talks about beingblessed because, these were the ways that
things were for the prophets before you.
There was a certain kind of blessednessor happiness that prophets achieve.
(03:07):
And that's still hard.
I'm still struggling with this one.
just to be clear, being a prophetwas not about telling what
the future was going to bring.
Being a prophet was tellingthe truth about the present
world, the present state.
if you are there as a Christian,making prophetic statements about, the
disconnect between the current stateof the world and what we understand
(03:32):
to be the divine intention forcreation, you can get into trouble.
If you're in a safe, space with yourchurchy friends and everybody's okay
with that, then that's one thing.
But once you get beyond that group andsay the truth about what's happening
around us, that can lead to persecution.
Lauren (03:57):
Just like it did for Jesus.
Jesus was calling people to livemore deeply out of love and to see
each one, as a beloved child of God,and people didn't want to hear this.
they wanted to obey the rules.
I think even, Christians today find ithard to follow these blueprints that we've
(04:26):
been talking about these last eight weeksbecause they are harder to follow than
the rules and the dogmas that we proclaim,
Jon (04:39):
here
Lauren (04:45):
I know that we talked about, John Lewis before one of our, sessions, but
he's the first person that comes to mindfor me again today as being persecuted
for the evil that he fought against.
he was beaten, and he called people.
get into trouble.
(05:05):
John calls it good trouble.
When we are fighting for justice,and I think that's what this,
is about fighting for justice.
Peacemaking, bringing peace,bringing, justice for everyone.
That's what Jesus was doing.
Jon (05:22):
a
Lauren (05:23):
with the wrong people of his time, with women,
Jon (05:26):
it,
Lauren (05:27):
tax collectors,
Jon (05:29):
to
Lauren (05:30):
he eventually was crucified.
That will happen to us, and we maynot be crucified, but if we live
out our faith, if we practice theseBeatitudes and really work to,
Jon (05:45):
to
Lauren (05:47):
for all people to live without want.
Jon (05:51):
New
Lauren (05:53):
to have, not everything they want, but what they need,
Jon (05:58):
Okay.
Lauren (06:00):
to be healthy and happy,
Jon (06:02):
I'm
Lauren (06:05):
we aren't going to be the most popular people in the world.
If we stand up for the refugeeswho are coming to our country,
That's what we're called to do.
I still like, John Lewis's phrase of,Calling us to get into good trouble.
I think that's what Jesus was talkingabout in this particular, Beatitude.
Jon (06:30):
Yeah, it sure sounds like it to me too.
I was listening to some of thoseexamples we've been talking about for
eight weeks through the Beatitudes.
what strikes me, or what's comingto me as a question is to what
extent is this all about change?
It's part of human nature, I think,that we tend not to embrace change.
(06:52):
I'll speak for myself.
I don't embrace change, usually.
sometimes even though people arein a terrible situation, they're
willing to have the status quocontinue rather than have it change.
And so I think that this is where,Jesus, was a huge change agent.
He wasn't trying to start a new religion.
(07:14):
just trying to get people tochange their hearts and get
back to being right with God.
And that's what this is all about, too.
And so I think that, you're right.
Lauren and I think, and Lynn, when wethink about persecution, I think what
that might mean, is persecution is aresistance to change that I'm trying to
(07:37):
advocate for or bring about in some way.
and change meaning to do somethingto change the situation of
poverty, injustice, oppression,of all kinds of oppression.
and we could still disagree.
disagreement's okay, and healthy.
(07:57):
We can all learn from that.
but I think being a true peacemaker,that's bringing about change.
It's bringing back achange from the status quo.
each and every one of these, Beatitudeshas to do with change, internal change, or
change in some societal or relationship,primarily about relationships.
I think that's what the Christianbelief is about loving relationships.
(08:21):
and involves change.
it's tough to do and a reactionto that is the negative thing
we can call persecution.
just name it.
Say that's what it is.
I think it's like the flipside of all the Beatitudes.
Is the hope that this changewill actually take place.
And that we can makewe have a role to play.
(08:43):
and bringing about that change.
And when we do, and we start to seeit, or at least hope for it, that's
what brings the happiness, that'swhat brings the blessedness, having
the hope that things are changeable.
Lauren (08:58):
Jon, I agree.
even if we don't see it, it'sthat hope that our children
or grandchildren will see it.
change is so hard to embrace.
There's been so muchchange, in our own lives,
Lynn (09:14):
And I often think too, is that, I think of what you say,
Lauren, and I think I'm beginningto understand what you mean when you
say, we have to become brokenhearted.
We have to have our hearts broken, open,so that we can have God show us the way.
(09:35):
And, that's the big change.
That's a terrible thing to do.
But the promise is so wonderful.
Lauren (09:44):
I would ask people who are listening to us, what is it that
is changing in your life that youfind, difficult to embrace, and
what might happen if you beginto find a way to embrace it?
(10:05):
might you find something good?
And, if it's something that reallyshould not be embraced, then
you can, stand up and get intotrouble for standing against it.
Jon (10:17):
Thanks to all of our viewers and listeners for being with us.
This is the eighth and final episodeof the Beatitudes of Jesus and
the Blueprint for Christian Life.
We look forward to seeing you nexttime when we have something new.
Lynn (10:38):
Take care.
Lauren (10:40):
Peace and blessings
..............Dolores: This episode on the Beatitudes has been brought
to you by listening for clues.
You can find us at ourwebsite listeningforclues.com,
on our YouTube channel or on justabout any audio podcast channel.
hope to see you soon.
We come now to the final beatitude, the one that may be
(00:03):
the most complex, challengingand difficult to accept.
So let's join a conversation withour Good News team Lynn Shematek,
Lauren Welch and Jon Shematek.
Lauren (00:12):
Our Beatitude today is, Blessed are those who are
persecuted in the cause of right.
Theirs is a kingdom of heaven.
Jesus saved the tough one for last.
Jon (00:30):
This is the hardest one, I think.
Lauren (00:34):
Who wants to be persecuted?
Lynn (00:37):
Not me.
Lauren (00:39):
So what did Jesus mean by this?
It is good, unless sometimesis, translated as happy.
So happy are those who are persecuted.
What might Jesus mean by this?
Jon (00:51):
I think that's what makes this, one of the more difficult, beatitudes
to grasp or buy into because, youasked the great question at the
beginning, who wants to be persecuted?
The answer has got to be no,nobody wants to be persecuted.
I think that would not be asign of a healthy person if
you wanted to be persecuted.
If we look deeper, the persecutionis actually for a reason.
(01:18):
you're not being persecutedbecause someone disagrees with
you politically, let's say.
There's no blessedness to being persecutedbecause of the color of your skin the
language you speak your sexual identityor preferences, your gender, your age.
There's no blessing in beingpersecuted because of those things.
those are all injustices in the world.
(01:39):
But what is Jesus really sayingabout what kind of persecution
can lead to blessedness?
Can lead to happiness,as you said, Lauren.
That word is supposed to be happy, too.
When can, what kind of persecution,or for what reason, can someone
being persecuted actually lead to ahappy or fulfilled life in some way.
Lynn (02:03):
the person is being persecuted because they believe in Jesus.
They show they believe in Jesus andGod by the love in their heart, their
peacemaking abilities and all that.
And then they're persecuted because peoplecan be petty, they can be, just evil.
(02:27):
and they will persecute you.
if you have those feelings in yourheart, then you are probably feeling
closer to God, closer to Jesus, andcloser to the Kingdom of Heaven.
Jon (02:43):
Yeah, I think there's something to that for sure.
a lot of what you were talking about,Jesus as he goes on there's more to
that beatitude than on that piece.
The verse continues and talks about beingblessed because, these were the ways that
things were for the prophets before you.
There was a certain kind of blessednessor happiness that prophets achieve.
(03:07):
And that's still hard.
I'm still struggling with this one.
just to be clear, being a prophetwas not about telling what
the future was going to bring.
Being a prophet was tellingthe truth about the present
world, the present state.
if you are there as a Christian,making prophetic statements about, the
disconnect between the current stateof the world and what we understand
(03:32):
to be the divine intention forcreation, you can get into trouble.
If you're in a safe, space with yourchurchy friends and everybody's okay
with that, then that's one thing.
But once you get beyond that group andsay the truth about what's happening
around us, that can lead to persecution.
Lauren (03:57):
Just like it did for Jesus.
Jesus was calling people to livemore deeply out of love and to see
each one, as a beloved child of God,and people didn't want to hear this.
they wanted to obey the rules.
I think even, Christians today find ithard to follow these blueprints that we've
(04:26):
been talking about these last eight weeksbecause they are harder to follow than
the rules and the dogmas that we proclaim,
Jon (04:39):
here
Lauren (04:45):
I know that we talked about, John Lewis before one of our, sessions, but
he's the first person that comes to mindfor me again today as being persecuted
for the evil that he fought against.
he was beaten, and he called people.
get into trouble.
(05:05):
John calls it good trouble.
When we are fighting for justice,and I think that's what this,
is about fighting for justice.
Peacemaking, bringing peace,bringing, justice for everyone.
That's what Jesus was doing.
Jon (05:22):
a
Lauren (05:23):
with the wrong people of his time, with women,
Jon (05:26):
it,
Lauren (05:27):
tax collectors,
Jon (05:29):
to
Lauren (05:30):
he eventually was crucified.
That will happen to us, and we maynot be crucified, but if we live
out our faith, if we practice theseBeatitudes and really work to,
Jon (05:45):
to
Lauren (05:47):
for all people to live without want.
Jon (05:51):
New
Lauren (05:53):
to have, not everything they want, but what they need,
Jon (05:58):
Okay.
Lauren (06:00):
to be healthy and happy,
Jon (06:02):
I'm
Lauren (06:05):
we aren't going to be the most popular people in the world.
If we stand up for the refugeeswho are coming to our country,
That's what we're called to do.
I still like, John Lewis's phrase of,Calling us to get into good trouble.
I think that's what Jesus was talkingabout in this particular, Beatitude.
Jon (06:30):
Yeah, it sure sounds like it to me too.
I was listening to some of thoseexamples we've been talking about for
eight weeks through the Beatitudes.
what strikes me, or what's comingto me as a question is to what
extent is this all about change?
It's part of human nature, I think,that we tend not to embrace change.
(06:52):
I'll speak for myself.
I don't embrace change, usually.
sometimes even though people arein a terrible situation, they're
willing to have the status quocontinue rather than have it change.
And so I think that this is where,Jesus, was a huge change agent.
He wasn't trying to start a new religion.
(07:14):
just trying to get people tochange their hearts and get
back to being right with God.
And that's what this is all about, too.
And so I think that, you're right.
Lauren and I think, and Lynn, when wethink about persecution, I think what
that might mean, is persecution is aresistance to change that I'm trying to
(07:37):
advocate for or bring about in some way.
and change meaning to do somethingto change the situation of
poverty, injustice, oppression,of all kinds of oppression.
and we could still disagree.
disagreement's okay, and healthy.
(07:57):
We can all learn from that.
but I think being a true peacemaker,that's bringing about change.
It's bringing back achange from the status quo.
each and every one of these, Beatitudeshas to do with change, internal change, or
change in some societal or relationship,primarily about relationships.
I think that's what the Christianbelief is about loving relationships.
(08:21):
and involves change.
it's tough to do and a reactionto that is the negative thing
we can call persecution.
just name it.
Say that's what it is.
I think it's like the flipside of all the Beatitudes.
Is the hope that this changewill actually take place.
And that we can makewe have a role to play.
(08:43):
and bringing about that change.
And when we do, and we start to seeit, or at least hope for it, that's
what brings the happiness, that'swhat brings the blessedness, having
the hope that things are changeable.
Lauren (08:58):
Jon, I agree.
even if we don't see it, it'sthat hope that our children
or grandchildren will see it.
change is so hard to embrace.
There's been so muchchange, in our own lives,
Lynn (09:14):
And I often think too, is that, I think of what you say,
Lauren, and I think I'm beginningto understand what you mean when you
say, we have to become brokenhearted.
We have to have our hearts broken, open,so that we can have God show us the way.
(09:35):
And, that's the big change.
That's a terrible thing to do.
But the promise is so wonderful.
Lauren (09:44):
I would ask people who are listening to us, what is it that
is changing in your life that youfind, difficult to embrace, and
what might happen if you beginto find a way to embrace it?
(10:05):
might you find something good?
And, if it's something that reallyshould not be embraced, then
you can, stand up and get intotrouble for standing against it.
Jon (10:17):
Thanks to all of our viewers and listeners for being with us.
This is the eighth and final episodeof the Beatitudes of Jesus and
the Blueprint for Christian Life.
We look forward to seeing you nexttime when we have something new.
Lynn (10:38):
Take care.
Lauren (10:40):
Peace and blessings
..............Dolores: This episode on the Beatitudes has been brought
to you by listening for clues.
You can find us at ourwebsite listeningforclues.com,
on our YouTube channel or on justabout any audio podcast channel.
hope to see you soon.
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