February 24, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode China Blue speaks with the Spoleto Festival Orchestra conductor Timothy Myers about his job listening and communicating without words to an orchestra.
Timothy Myers is one of America’s most versatile conductors, engaging collaborators, and innovative purveyors of ideas. A frequent collaborator with leading opera companies and orchestras, he is internationally acclaimed for his eloquence, energy, command, and unbridled curiosity across a wide range of repertoire and projects.
Myers also serves as the Sarah and Ernest Butler Music Director at Austin Opera. A leading voice on the topics of leadership and innovation, Myers has made recent speaking appearances at the SXSW Festival, Harvard Business School, The University of Texas at Austin, and Miami Dade College. Myers is also the host of the “Listening on Purpose” podcast, an exploration of listening and connection through the lenses of notable guests such as authors Seth Godin and Chip Conley, neuroscientist Dr. Nina Kraus, and top TEDx contributor Julian Treasure.
Myers champions the next generation of conductors, instrumentalists, and composers of today and as an orchestral conductor, he collaborates internationally.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to listening with China Blue.
(00:03):
This is a podcast that focuses on how listening not only informs us about what is occurring in the world around us,
but also helps us connect with others,
build stronger businesses,
strengthens our mental health,
and become more creative and compassionate individuals.
As more and more people practice attentive listening in a community,
(00:23):
it becomes a community building practice that
strengthens our mental health as we learn from our neighbors.
I will be interviewing people from all walks of life to learn how listening has informed them in their field
and help them to make intelligent decisions.
They will be artists, musicians, composers, dancers, business people, psychologists, neuroscientists, and Buddhists, to name a few.
(00:51):
About me, I'm an internationally exhibiting sound-based artist.
In my work, Discovering Unheard Sounds, I realized that the core component that drove my work was simply listening.
That realization put me on the path of speaking about and helping people learn to become better listeners.
(01:11):
I began with leading sound walks, which I continue to do in the upstate New York region,
to help people learn to listen from nature.
And now, tune your ears to this podcast to learn about the power of listening.
And do pay attention until the end for further information on how to start your own listening practice,
(01:34):
share it with others, and to support listening with China Blue.
Timothy Myers is one of America's most versatile conductors,
engaging collaborators and innovative purveyors of ideas.
A frequent collaborator with leading opera companies and orchestras,
he is internationally acclaimed for his eloquence, energy, command, and unbridled curiosity across a wide range of repertoire and projects.
(02:03):
In September of 2023, Myers was appointed music director of the Spoleto Festival USA Orchestra,
one of the world's most prestigious ensembles for early career classical musicians.
In this role, Myers leads the annual formation of the orchestra,
which serves as the backbone of Spoleto's ambitious multidisciplinary festivals,
(02:27):
and conducts multiple performances of symphonic programs, operas, and other special projects.
Myers also serves as the Sarah and Ernst Butler Music Director at Austin Opera.
A leading voice in the topics of leadership and innovation,
Myers has recent speaking appearances at the SXSW Festival,
(02:51):
Harvard Business School, the University of Texas at Austin, and Miami Dade College.
Myers is also the host of Listening on Purpose podcast,
an exploration of listening and connecting through the lenses of notable guests such as authors Seth Golden and Chip Conley,
neuroscientist Dr. Nina Krauss, and top TEDx contributor Julian Treasure.
(03:16):
Myers champions the next generation of conductors, instrumentalists, and composers of today,
and as an orchestral conductor, he collaborates internationally.
Welcome, Timothy.
Thank you, Shaina. Nice to be with you today.
Nice to speak with you after all this time.
(03:37):
It's been a while, hasn't it?
Yeah, it was so nice of you to have me on your podcast, and I guess that was like a bit of a time ago.
But during that time, you continue your work as a conductor.
Yeah, it's actually gotten busier, and my podcast is unfortunately on a little bit of a hiatus right now,
(04:00):
or a pause, I should say, just because, you know, my real job got in the way a little bit.
I hate that when that happens.
Such is life.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I was thinking that since not many people know about your work and what it entails,
if you could tell us a little bit about what it's like to be a conductor and how listening is involved.
(04:24):
I will start by just giving everyone a little bit of context about what it is, the job of being a conductor.
It is a lot of study, because obviously, if I'm going to lead large numbers of people in something,
(04:48):
I need to understand it as deeply as possible.
So a large part of my life is score study and learning and ingesting
and trying to understand as deeply as possible the scores that I'm conducting.
So for example, this week I'm conducting performances of Verity's Requiem Mass.
(05:12):
And so, you know, this is a very large piece, it's, you know, 85 minutes, very large orchestra, very large chorus.
And so it takes hours and hours and hours and hours to really learn a score like this
and to understand it so that when I'm standing on the podium, I can do a number of things that are involved in the job of being a conductor.
(05:37):
The first one, and to me, the most important part is all of these musicians on stage are looking at their part.
So the violinists see the violin one or two part, trombone sees trombone one, two, three part, whatever it is, you know,
(05:59):
the chorister sees soprano, alto, tenor, bass. I'm the one who sees the whole picture.
So I have the score that has everyone's part in it.
And it's my responsibility to give them information that they don't know.
So looking at their part, they can see, OK, these are the notes I'm supposed to play.
(06:23):
This is the dynamic, meaning how loud or how soft it's supposed to be.
There might be things like articulation, which means how short or long is a note.
And so there's a lot of information for them in that part.
But these are very talented, experienced musicians, right? So they know what all of these things mean.
What that doesn't tell them is how it goes together, necessarily.
(06:48):
So my job is to create something that is greater than the sum of the parts by illuminating to them how all of these different pieces go together in pursuit of a greater vision.
So that is the chief job of a conductor. And I know, you know, when people think about watching a conductor,
(07:17):
many people say, well, what does a conductor actually do?
And in what I just described to you, to me is the chief responsibility of being on the podium and having that privilege.
The process that happens on the podium is a different, quite complex step.
(07:42):
Because as I just described, if I'm looking to portray a greater and cohesive vision to all of these individuals,
that means I have to have a very firm vision in my mind of what that is. So what does it look like?
How is this going to go? How do I want this to sound, right?
(08:07):
Is there a certain color that the sound needs here to portray something?
Is there, you know, I mean, the orchestra parts might say piano, right, or a P, which is the Italian word for softly.
But what does that mean? Is it soft, like anemically soft? Is it soft, like tender? Is it soft, like transparent?
(08:34):
So, you know, there are so many ways that a sound can occur. And so when I have this vision in my head of
what the end result needs to be to communicate the composer's intentions,
(08:56):
I am starting by giving physical information, right? So this is by gesture.
And when I'm on the podium, the most important thing I do is what they call a prep beat.
So this is the beat before the music that shows the tempo, meaning the speed,
and hopefully gives the information or the musician a lot of other information about what I'm asking for.
(09:21):
So I'm doing this nonverbal activity, right? Well, they're responding with sound.
So ironically, I'm the only person in a performance that doesn't make a sound.
And so I'm giving this physical information that incites an aural response.
(09:46):
What happens then is a very complex but very rapid process where I'm hearing what's coming to me from the orchestra
as they respond to my gesture. And then I'm comparing that to my vision and seeing how those relate to each other.
(10:14):
From there, obviously, especially in early rehearsals, there's probably a disparity there, at least at some level, right?
And no matter how fine the musicians are, that's just the process of rehearsing.
And so then I'm hearing what's happening, comparing it to the vision in my mind,
(10:37):
and then saying, okay, how do I bring these two things closer together? Is it me, right?
Do I need to change the character of the physical information that I'm giving?
For example, if I wanted to sound soft and I'm using a large gesture, well, those two things do not match, right?
And so it's not encouraging to an orchestra to play softly if I'm up there flapping around, you know, like a large waterfowl or something, right?
(11:09):
So then I have to say, okay, first, what am I doing? Am I truly physically communicating the sound that I want?
If not, okay, I need to adjust. And then the next step is, okay, if I'm in alignment with my vision, physically as well as mentally,
(11:30):
then what's happening that I can coach in the ensemble, right? Is it that everyone's playing too loud or only the woodwinds are playing too loud or only the violins are playing too loud or only the brass are playing too loud?
Okay, well, then I can use a small gesture without stopping the music to indicate to them, okay, let's have a little quieter, please.
(11:53):
And I can balance that way. I can also, you know, do things like I'm trying to think, you know, just in rehearsal last night for the Verdi, you know, you can also invite something to be louder, right?
If there's a line that you want to have more importance, you can encourage that.
(12:15):
So there's that. And then the trick of this is this process of giving information, hearing what actually is happening, comparing it to your vision, and doing something about it happens multiple times a second, right?
So this is a very rapid process that as a conductor, you really have to be able to manage, because one of the things that I find in some of my colleagues is that I'm not convinced they're actually hearing what's happening in front of them.
(12:53):
Right? They have a vision and they're giving physical information, but I'm not completely convinced that they're hearing what's actually going on in front of them as opposed to just what's in their head.
And so that's a very complex process that happens, as I mentioned, you know, every second, I mean, many times, this is that's what that's what a rehearsal is, you're just, you're on sort of like hyperactive
(13:22):
listening. And, and if I can, yeah, you're listening to this large, large group of sounds. So you're not only listening to the whole ensemble together, but you're also trying to focus in on individual contributions.
(13:43):
Yes. That's right, that is definitely part of it. And learning to understand.
Okay, let's say, I mean, I'm looking at a first violin section right, you know, whatever 121416 violins, depending on the orchestra and it's, I need to understand also individually how those players are doing and how what their contributions are, because, especially,
(14:11):
for example, where I'm music director, it's my responsibility that the, you know, for the care and feeding of the orchestra, which means understanding people's success of the end struggles at the same time.
So yes, there is definitely a sense of understanding individual contributions in this, in this context, which for example in this piece that I'm conducting this week is about 150 people.
(14:35):
Oh my, now it's obviously with, you know, a gigantic chorus, that's not the position behind the orchestra so they're not that close to me, hearing individual voices out of that is difficult if not impossible.
But in the orchestra and those who are closer to me that is certainly part of the responsibility is to understand the individual and the collective at the same time.
(15:00):
And I'm very curious as to how to get the attention of one person or one performer who's maybe a little off tune or a little too fast.
How do you, how do you make sure that they see you and you can gesture specifically to one person.
(15:22):
Well, there are a couple different ways this works. Hopefully, they are attentive to me.
And you know they they are positioned in a way that obviously they're facing me.
And, you know, are looking up from their part, enough that they can engage with me, so that I don't have to do anything really specific to get their attention to to make a request of them.
(15:49):
Like throw a tennis ball at their head.
But there's also this phenomenon that I find very interesting that if someone not watching you, if you just continually stare at them.
Oh, eventually, they will engage with you. Right.
(16:10):
So, how about that technique. I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure there's a name for it I have no idea, but if that's the case that there's a musician I'm trying to get in touch with, you know, non verbally.
I will just just continue to look at them until they look at me, and then there's a realization that.
(16:33):
Maybe I need to be a little more engaged here, right, because he was looking at me directly looking for my eyes and I was not there. And I'm not saying this in a derisive way right maybe it's a hard passage and they needed to really be kind of looking at
every note for a moment.
But that, that tends to work pretty well.
(16:54):
You know, if you're not successful in that, which happens sometimes, then you can stop and give certain coaching to the orchestra or make specific requests of them.
And that's part of it, but in general orchestras vastly prefer conductors who are able to give the information physically instead of talking all the time, because they're there to play not listen to you talk.
(17:21):
So then, that's, excuse me, how you got the attention of one person, say you want to have one section, like all the brass or to to respond to you.
How to, how do you communicate to a group, a subgroup, because at each of one of them individually.
(17:45):
Yeah, that is, it's a good question there's the, and there's some complexity to that and the way that these instruments operate in the technique that is used to play them varies from section to section so for example with strings there have a bow that they're putting on
the string, and they have a lot of control over exactly how that both starts to move at what speed the pressure they're putting on the string, etc. right.
(18:11):
So that invites a certain gesture of vocabulary wins, for example, let's say, especially double reads like the oboe bassoon, the attack is much more immediate right because they have to pressurize so much air through that small read to make the sound that
doesn't just go right that just doesn't operate that way so there's always a little, a little front to the sound so it's the right. And so, the obviously that requires me to just truly communicate a little bit differently to if I want them to sound the beginning
(18:49):
together. Well I can't give some wishy washy gesture because then they'll all enter at different times, and it's my fault. I did not give them the proper information. So I have to be a little more articulate with them so that they know exactly where to place the note.
And there's also a number of things that are just very simple kind of international sign language gestures, and I don't mean actual sign language right like in the linguistic idea but, for example, if I hold up my hand with my palm to you.
(19:28):
What does that mean.
It means stop right. Yeah, exactly right. So we all we understand that as stop right. Or if I'm doing that and might maybe my palm is not straight out to you but I'm sort of pushing it down.
I'm, I'm, you know, depressing something. Well, that that to most people means quieter, less right, whereas also if I turn my palm up and I start encouraging and moving it upwards, either fast or slow that tends to invite more sound.
(20:02):
So those are just some of the gestures that I can use to communicate, whether it's an individual and player an entire section the entire ensemble.
Those are things that are tools that I very regularly use.
Nice.
(20:24):
Well, that brings us to another point that I had, or another question maybe about about gesturing. Now, those are the most obvious gestures that most of us know or we can generally figure out without having any lessons on on working with you.
(20:45):
But, you know, I was thinking about your gesturing now it. Those are the simple ones it's got to be extremely complex motion that you're engaged with. And can you tell me a little about to your whole feeling your stance on the state on the podium your, your, your general
motion because I think it's I see that almost like a dance.
(21:11):
It is trying to it. When I think about the physicality of it.
And I'm just sitting here right now reminding myself to sort of open my chest.
I am a big Pilates fan.
Because that's something that is really aided by conducting a lot and especially in, in, you know, my, my body language right because that's like I mentioned I talked about the gesture vocabulary what's happening in the, in the hands and the wrist and the arms, etc.
(21:46):
But it's also just about, like you mentioned stance. It's also facially important that you're communicating.
But my stance on the podium certainly impacts the music. I can remember when I was just starting out as a conductor and I was conducting this overture that was very fast and bright and spry and it felt very heavy from the orchestra.
(22:13):
It just did not have the bright character that it needed. And I did a quick scan of myself, and I noticed that my stance my feet were quite far apart, wider than shoulder width, right.
I thought, Aha, I'm going to bring my feet closer together, like, less than shoulder width apart. And the sound of the ensemble immediately changed as soon as I did. Right, because they saw me do that they saw me stand up a little bit taller.
(22:45):
I don't remember but I'm guessing I sort of opened my posture a little bit that I started being lighter in my feet, and that there was an immediate response without anybody saying a word.
And so, these things are very, very powerful that these ways of body language and body language is the fascinating thing and something that, again, fairly early in my career I read several books about, because it's, it's such a critical way of communicating
(23:17):
with the people in front of you. When you're conducting.
And again, it comes down to how much of this can I do without opening my mouth without saying a word. Obviously in rehearsal.
There are some things I have to say, right, just, they need to be said or coached a little a certain way or explained a little bit. But my goal is to utilize every tool I have to communicate this information without speaking, because in the performance,
(23:49):
that's what's going to happen. Right. And then you go the next step of how do I portray emotion.
Physically, right, and that can be you know if you want the sound to be really small like, I'm just, you know, I know people can't see me but sort of using gestures that sort of make it more compact or maybe you get those, you know the hands or in my case
(24:14):
you know I'm using a baton that are they vary in length, mine's 14 inches long.
And I got that in my right hand, but I can sort of cover the tip of the baton a little bit, or I can put a hand between the ensemble and the tip of the baton. That's very effective at getting them to kind of focus on being quieter.
(24:42):
And then and then you come to facial expression you know how can I that's one of the greatest tools for portraying emotion, right. What do I want to sound to be do I want to sound brave.
You know if I say that word. I don't know my body language reacts.
Right, if I say a word like that.
If I want it to be sorrowful.
(25:04):
Something right there already my hand has a reaction my face has a reaction.
My eyes are different.
And those, those are things that communicate to people, and very deeply in a way that you might not even be able to describe in words, but you're connecting on a different level on this non verbal intimate
(25:33):
level of trust that is very critical to empowered performances.
That is so nuanced. And I can tell by your description that these are gestures that you've stumbled upon that you find successful but can one say that this is a whole process that's not not not taught in conducting school, if there's, if that's a term.
(26:08):
Yeah, it is I.
I don't have a specific degree in conducting.
They are available.
And many of my colleagues do.
I went into this just pursuing a pursuit of being an excellent musician. That was my focus. Right. And so I went a little bit different path before I turned to conducting.
(26:33):
But there are.
Look, here's my view on it.
You can learn a conducting, quote unquote technique.
Right.
Just on the basics depending on the meter of the music you know how many beats to a bar is it 1234 or 123123 like in a waltz feel right and there are different gestures that you use to communicate that are somewhat universal.
(27:03):
You know, in training and for what an orchestra will quickly understand. Obviously there's a thousand nuances within those gestures, but
a lot of this is passed down.
A lot of the finer points of this are are passed down.
Because conducting is a craft.
(27:25):
And it's passed down, you know, I had the fortune to have some excellent mentors and then at a critical point in my life be the assistant and protege have a very, very famous conductor, and you learn a lot by watching.
Right and watching and seeing what is successful and also what is not so successful.
(27:47):
Because all of us conductors are flawed at some level and you know you can often learn a lot about what not to do by watching something so and it's something that I still do today I you know if I see something on YouTube of a you know performance
that I'm just happen to be listening to all watch and see. Oh wow, that was a really interesting gesture they made that that incited something really great.
(28:17):
And I might just steal that move.
So it's a continual process and something I still think about today about refinement of the craft and how and how I give this information and portray music through my body.
I've never thought of it that way.
That's interesting and, you know, you said earlier you started out as a musician. What type of musician were you.
(28:44):
Piano was my main instrument, and the only thing that I ever played at a professional level. I did study some cello when I was a kid and then when I got interested in conducting in college I started studying violin, because I wanted to understand better
string technique.
Obviously there, you know, there are more string players than anybody else in the orchestra.
(29:06):
And so, I wanted to really gain some fluency and how to communicate with string players on a technical level. So that required me gaining a semblance of understanding of what they're doing the physical mechanics of it, the possibilities of the instruments.
(29:30):
The challenges that a double bass player might have that a violinist does not have, and vice versa.
So that was that was very important part of my study, but really it did all come down to years and years of piano lessons, you know that continued really through the end of my graduate studies.
(29:51):
That's really quite fascinating because I can imagine how this personal inquiry into the instruments and how they function has helped you so much in being a conductor because as you were describing quite earlier in the podcast, how you are paying attention to
(30:13):
those nuances and you understand what each person is engaged with and what their challenges are in terms of the different nuances of their instrument.
To me, one of the greatest leadership moves there is, is to be able to speak to someone in their language.
(30:39):
And speak to someone in a way that they immediately understand that indicates that you understand that.
Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. And so, if I can look at a string section and say something in a way that they don't have to translate what I'm saying to make it effective for them.
(31:06):
That it's just, it's faster and they feel understood. Right. They feel like, oh, he gets us right. And it's the same if I look at the, you know, the French horns and I make a request.
Well, it's much more effective if I can use language that they use all the time. Right. That's their lingo. And instead of saying something that then they have to say, well, what exactly does he mean? I don't know. Do we ask? Do we pretend we understand what he wants?
(31:39):
You know, versus just me delivering actionable information immediately. And of course, questions do always come up clarifying questions. Right. And you want that as a leader.
But again, how great is it if you can speak to someone in their own language, even at an elemental or elementary level? That's a big, that's a powerful tool as a leader.
(32:11):
Yeah, yeah.
That makes so much sense.
But talking about listening to other people through their own language, you know, you have a strong history of collaborating.
And can you tell us a little bit about how your collaboration process works and who you enjoy collaborating with?
(32:40):
Collaboration was what got me into conducting.
Oh.
Because I was an undergraduate and I was a hard core pianist.
And two things happened.
The first was I sustained an injury to my right arm that made it clear that a career as a pianist was not possible.
(33:06):
And that was simply because I could not sustain the hours and hours and hours of practice required to be a professional pianist.
Now, that doesn't mean I, you know, I studied piano through grad school and spent, you know, a good six hours a day at the keyboard, for sure.
But that's not enough to be, you know, a very fine concert pianist, for example.
(33:32):
And the second thing that happened was I realized that I didn't like spending all of this time by myself in a room with a piano.
And that's really what it is, right?
It's a pretty lonely thing.
And a lot of people do that very well or a lot of people find kinship with the instrument in that situation.
(33:56):
I didn't.
And I began to realize that my greatest joy in music making was doing it with other people.
And whether that was accompanying a singer or an instrumentalist or playing chamber music or whatever it might be, that that's what brought me to life musically.
(34:17):
Making music with other people.
And that's still the fuel to my fire today.
And I'll give you an example.
So the severity requiem that I mentioned I'm conducting this week, large orchestra, large chorus, four vocal soloists.
Right.
And so, of course, I've had some rehearsals with just the soloists this week.
(34:40):
And I love tailoring the experience to their individual instruments and musicianship.
And singers are very, very individual, right, because they're not playing an instrument.
The instrument is their body.
And, you know, these small little things about the body, you know, the vocal cords, the resonance chambers, et cetera.
(35:08):
And I really get a kick out of listening to them.
Understanding what they might need vocally, whether they know it or not.
Most of the time they know it.
Sometimes they don't quite know.
But you can help them in a way that maybe they didn't even understand they needed.
But I love that process.
(35:30):
I just love it.
And so collaboration for me is life.
And collaborating off the podium, you know, I have two music director jobs.
And collaborating with the administrative teams in these institutions, I find great joy in.
And talking about ideas and how to advance the goals and the vision of the organization.
(35:54):
And so collaboration is something for me that is really the lifeline, the lifeblood for me and in really every area.
And I love what happens when you have a good collaboration is that multiple people feel fulfilled.
(36:15):
That's true. And to me, that's so much more interesting than just my own individual fulfillment, because that is fleeting.
Yeah.
Much more lasting and less temporal is a group feeling of fulfillment, because that spreads.
(36:36):
Right. That's something that's contagious.
And I really, really love that.
And that is how you build a community, too.
That's right. That's exactly right. You can't build community without people feeling like their voice makes a difference.
(36:57):
Their voice counts.
Yeah.
And, you know, we see this in our culture right now that, you know, there's a lot of talking going on, but there's very little listening happening.
And this is often a problem with people. And one of the bigger reasons why I wanted to do this podcast was to bring attention to the importance of listening and how it builds a community and it creates a sustained environment to help a community move forward.
(37:34):
Yeah, that's right.
And this, that was the really the impetus for my podcast, too, is, of course, as a conductor, the most important thing I do is listening. Right. I think from the conversation up to now that the listeners probably ascertained that without that I can't do any even the next step of my job.
(38:00):
But this does transfer to humanity, you know, to humankind, and it's difficult for me to think of a more important thing, something that impacts every area of everyone's life and their interaction with others, whether that's small or large.
(38:26):
To me it all comes down to listening, whether that's my five year old son.
And when he's saying something, understanding the words he's saying, understanding what he's not saying what's behind the words that he's saying, what is he communicating to me physically and with his body language doesn't match what he's saying.
(38:47):
And, you know, and understanding.
You know, fully as fully as possible.
What someone is communicating to you is, is the step to unlocking everything else.
Right, and with children it's it's how to sustain an engaged relationship.
(39:15):
Absolutely.
It's not just human, or not just human animals you know, my family we have two dogs it's the same.
Everyone is better when they feel heard.
Because then they feel like they are empowered in themselves.
(39:40):
And I don't know what greater gift you could give someone.
I think that's a wonderful way of putting it.
Thank you.
So, what's next on your calendar.
Next on my calendar so I have performances here in Austin this weekend, and then I am back on Oh, you'll get a kick out of this talk about listening.
(40:12):
So, the Spoleto Festival USA which is based in Charleston, North Carolina, where I'm music director of the orchestra. This is a 17 day festival and late spring early summer.
It's a multi disciplinary festival over 100 performances in 17 days.
All on the peninsula Charleston so every venue is within a 10 minute walk of others, and it's a very cool thing it's it's, I really have to dream jobs, honestly.
(40:42):
And so, one of the special things about Spoleto, as you mentioned in the introduction is that this is a bespoke orchestra every year.
And formed by, you know, the many of the most promising early career classical musicians in the world. And part of that involves, of course, then we have to hear auditions, right.
(41:10):
And so last year, we heard almost
almost just under 500 auditions.
And out of that we brought 90 around 90 musicians to the festival.
And so, part of that is an audition tour so we do we do accept recorded submissions so there's no barrier to anyone applying, but we do this, we added a city so now it's an eight city audition tour.
(41:47):
And so, myself, and my colleague who's the manager of the orchestra traveled to these cities, and we hear, you know, player after player after player and you know seven minute increments from, you know, morning noon and night.
And so, after I finished performances here in Austin I fly straight back to the audition tour for another 10 days or so to finish that and you know that's another interesting thing about listening is you know you obviously you're sitting here and I think
(42:20):
one of the things that maybe a lot of maybe some people don't understand is listening is very fatiguing when you're doing it well. It's, I once I had a, you know, kind of state earlier on in my life of working in recording studios and film a lot and I
had a really well known recording engineer, describing to me like you know that that's the sense that hearing is the sense the fatigues the fastest.
(42:51):
And so, when you're in a recording studio. Well, a long working session does not mean that you're getting better at the end you're probably getting worse, right, because these senses start to fatigue, and they don't you don't have the same sharpness in your, in your hearing or you're listening,
or the same sort of critical critical I was gonna say critical either critical ear to it.
(43:15):
And that's a very interesting thing this audition tour because it's a lot it's hours upon hours of listening. And really in listening in a way that you can evaluate from a number of metrics.
Is this person a fit for the orchestra, or even is this person a fit for the orchestra, this year, or maybe not quite yet.
(43:41):
Maybe that's a really wonderful flute player but does not match in sound, what we need for the rest of the section. So, it's another fascinating process and honestly, it's a great joy also to hear these terrific young musicians come in, and they're, you know,
they're all right at the sort of the end of their training in the beginning of their careers and so there's this fire and energy and nervousness and, you know, passion and inexperience and all of these things just manifest and I always equate it to people
(44:16):
who are like, I'm gonna explain it like this is the difference like college sports versus pro sports right is like, and this is why I love college sports more because there's a bit of unpredictability right you have a kind of high technical proficiency here.
And the mistakes that happen are often unpredictable right. Whereas, I think professionals you know it's it's very much ingrained right and there's the there's a rhythm there that they developed over those you know thousands of hours but with with younger musicians
(44:49):
it's it's it's very exciting, because there's just this energy that I really adore about it and it's one of the things that makes that that job of great joy.
I yeah and I and I understand and I enjoy also that energy of the youth, it's it's captivating.
(45:13):
Yeah, it really is and I think you know the performances of the orchestra at this Boleto Festival are very special.
Just because of what I because of what I just explained right, it's not that you can't hear finer performances of this music or more polished performances of this music you certainly certainly can, you know, go listen to the New York Philharmonic or something
you know, whatever. But there's a unique energy and and and drive that comes in in these performances because of the the youthful exuberance and feeling and, and, you know, it also relies on me to communicate with them in a way that that harnesses that and supports
(45:58):
them when they need support, because they're not as experienced, or just, you know what sometimes the best thing I can do is just not get in the way.
Well, Tim, that is so interesting that whole comment of not getting in the way.
I unfortunately have to interject and get in the way because this has come to the end of our time together already. Oh, bummer. I know, I know it's been so much fun.
(46:30):
But hopefully we'll be able to do this again further along in your career and love to love to speak with you then so thank you so much.
Thank you, China. Great to chat with you.
Thank you, Timothy.
Thank you for listening to this episode of listening with China Blue.
I hope it inspires you to build your own listening practice.
(46:54):
This begins as a daily practice of attentively listening without judgment, and ask yourself, what is your version of silence.
If you want to learn more about me and my work, go to ChinaBlueArt.com, and please follow me on Facebook and Instagram.
Thank you.
Welcome to listening with China Blue.
(00:03):
This is a podcast that focuses on how listening not only informs us about what is occurring in the world around us,
but also helps us connect with others,
build stronger businesses,
strengthens our mental health,
and become more creative and compassionate individuals.
As more and more people practice attentive listening in a community,
(00:23):
it becomes a community building practice that
strengthens our mental health as we learn from our neighbors.
I will be interviewing people from all walks of life to learn how listening has informed them in their field
and help them to make intelligent decisions.
They will be artists, musicians, composers, dancers, business people, psychologists, neuroscientists, and Buddhists, to name a few.
(00:51):
About me, I'm an internationally exhibiting sound-based artist.
In my work, Discovering Unheard Sounds, I realized that the core component that drove my work was simply listening.
That realization put me on the path of speaking about and helping people learn to become better listeners.
(01:11):
I began with leading sound walks, which I continue to do in the upstate New York region,
to help people learn to listen from nature.
And now, tune your ears to this podcast to learn about the power of listening.
And do pay attention until the end for further information on how to start your own listening practice,
(01:34):
share it with others, and to support listening with China Blue.
Timothy Myers is one of America's most versatile conductors,
engaging collaborators and innovative purveyors of ideas.
A frequent collaborator with leading opera companies and orchestras,
he is internationally acclaimed for his eloquence, energy, command, and unbridled curiosity across a wide range of repertoire and projects.
(02:03):
In September of 2023, Myers was appointed music director of the Spoleto Festival USA Orchestra,
one of the world's most prestigious ensembles for early career classical musicians.
In this role, Myers leads the annual formation of the orchestra,
which serves as the backbone of Spoleto's ambitious multidisciplinary festivals,
(02:27):
and conducts multiple performances of symphonic programs, operas, and other special projects.
Myers also serves as the Sarah and Ernst Butler Music Director at Austin Opera.
A leading voice in the topics of leadership and innovation,
Myers has recent speaking appearances at the SXSW Festival,
(02:51):
Harvard Business School, the University of Texas at Austin, and Miami Dade College.
Myers is also the host of Listening on Purpose podcast,
an exploration of listening and connecting through the lenses of notable guests such as authors Seth Golden and Chip Conley,
neuroscientist Dr. Nina Krauss, and top TEDx contributor Julian Treasure.
(03:16):
Myers champions the next generation of conductors, instrumentalists, and composers of today,
and as an orchestral conductor, he collaborates internationally.
Welcome, Timothy.
Thank you, Shaina. Nice to be with you today.
Nice to speak with you after all this time.
(03:37):
It's been a while, hasn't it?
Yeah, it was so nice of you to have me on your podcast, and I guess that was like a bit of a time ago.
But during that time, you continue your work as a conductor.
Yeah, it's actually gotten busier, and my podcast is unfortunately on a little bit of a hiatus right now,
(04:00):
or a pause, I should say, just because, you know, my real job got in the way a little bit.
I hate that when that happens.
Such is life.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I was thinking that since not many people know about your work and what it entails,
if you could tell us a little bit about what it's like to be a conductor and how listening is involved.
(04:24):
I will start by just giving everyone a little bit of context about what it is, the job of being a conductor.
It is a lot of study, because obviously, if I'm going to lead large numbers of people in something,
(04:48):
I need to understand it as deeply as possible.
So a large part of my life is score study and learning and ingesting
and trying to understand as deeply as possible the scores that I'm conducting.
So for example, this week I'm conducting performances of Verity's Requiem Mass.
(05:12):
And so, you know, this is a very large piece, it's, you know, 85 minutes, very large orchestra, very large chorus.
And so it takes hours and hours and hours and hours to really learn a score like this
and to understand it so that when I'm standing on the podium, I can do a number of things that are involved in the job of being a conductor.
(05:37):
The first one, and to me, the most important part is all of these musicians on stage are looking at their part.
So the violinists see the violin one or two part, trombone sees trombone one, two, three part, whatever it is, you know,
(05:59):
the chorister sees soprano, alto, tenor, bass. I'm the one who sees the whole picture.
So I have the score that has everyone's part in it.
And it's my responsibility to give them information that they don't know.
So looking at their part, they can see, OK, these are the notes I'm supposed to play.
(06:23):
This is the dynamic, meaning how loud or how soft it's supposed to be.
There might be things like articulation, which means how short or long is a note.
And so there's a lot of information for them in that part.
But these are very talented, experienced musicians, right? So they know what all of these things mean.
What that doesn't tell them is how it goes together, necessarily.
(06:48):
So my job is to create something that is greater than the sum of the parts by illuminating to them how all of these different pieces go together in pursuit of a greater vision.
So that is the chief job of a conductor. And I know, you know, when people think about watching a conductor,
(07:17):
many people say, well, what does a conductor actually do?
And in what I just described to you, to me is the chief responsibility of being on the podium and having that privilege.
The process that happens on the podium is a different, quite complex step.
(07:42):
Because as I just described, if I'm looking to portray a greater and cohesive vision to all of these individuals,
that means I have to have a very firm vision in my mind of what that is. So what does it look like?
How is this going to go? How do I want this to sound, right?
(08:07):
Is there a certain color that the sound needs here to portray something?
Is there, you know, I mean, the orchestra parts might say piano, right, or a P, which is the Italian word for softly.
But what does that mean? Is it soft, like anemically soft? Is it soft, like tender? Is it soft, like transparent?
(08:34):
So, you know, there are so many ways that a sound can occur. And so when I have this vision in my head of
what the end result needs to be to communicate the composer's intentions,
(08:56):
I am starting by giving physical information, right? So this is by gesture.
And when I'm on the podium, the most important thing I do is what they call a prep beat.
So this is the beat before the music that shows the tempo, meaning the speed,
and hopefully gives the information or the musician a lot of other information about what I'm asking for.
(09:21):
So I'm doing this nonverbal activity, right? Well, they're responding with sound.
So ironically, I'm the only person in a performance that doesn't make a sound.
And so I'm giving this physical information that incites an aural response.
(09:46):
What happens then is a very complex but very rapid process where I'm hearing what's coming to me from the orchestra
as they respond to my gesture. And then I'm comparing that to my vision and seeing how those relate to each other.
(10:14):
From there, obviously, especially in early rehearsals, there's probably a disparity there, at least at some level, right?
And no matter how fine the musicians are, that's just the process of rehearsing.
And so then I'm hearing what's happening, comparing it to the vision in my mind,
(10:37):
and then saying, okay, how do I bring these two things closer together? Is it me, right?
Do I need to change the character of the physical information that I'm giving?
For example, if I wanted to sound soft and I'm using a large gesture, well, those two things do not match, right?
And so it's not encouraging to an orchestra to play softly if I'm up there flapping around, you know, like a large waterfowl or something, right?
(11:09):
So then I have to say, okay, first, what am I doing? Am I truly physically communicating the sound that I want?
If not, okay, I need to adjust. And then the next step is, okay, if I'm in alignment with my vision, physically as well as mentally,
(11:30):
then what's happening that I can coach in the ensemble, right? Is it that everyone's playing too loud or only the woodwinds are playing too loud or only the violins are playing too loud or only the brass are playing too loud?
Okay, well, then I can use a small gesture without stopping the music to indicate to them, okay, let's have a little quieter, please.
(11:53):
And I can balance that way. I can also, you know, do things like I'm trying to think, you know, just in rehearsal last night for the Verdi, you know, you can also invite something to be louder, right?
If there's a line that you want to have more importance, you can encourage that.
(12:15):
So there's that. And then the trick of this is this process of giving information, hearing what actually is happening, comparing it to your vision, and doing something about it happens multiple times a second, right?
So this is a very rapid process that as a conductor, you really have to be able to manage, because one of the things that I find in some of my colleagues is that I'm not convinced they're actually hearing what's happening in front of them.
(12:53):
Right? They have a vision and they're giving physical information, but I'm not completely convinced that they're hearing what's actually going on in front of them as opposed to just what's in their head.
And so that's a very complex process that happens, as I mentioned, you know, every second, I mean, many times, this is that's what that's what a rehearsal is, you're just, you're on sort of like hyperactive
(13:22):
listening. And, and if I can, yeah, you're listening to this large, large group of sounds. So you're not only listening to the whole ensemble together, but you're also trying to focus in on individual contributions.
(13:43):
Yes. That's right, that is definitely part of it. And learning to understand.
Okay, let's say, I mean, I'm looking at a first violin section right, you know, whatever 121416 violins, depending on the orchestra and it's, I need to understand also individually how those players are doing and how what their contributions are, because, especially,
(14:11):
for example, where I'm music director, it's my responsibility that the, you know, for the care and feeding of the orchestra, which means understanding people's success of the end struggles at the same time.
So yes, there is definitely a sense of understanding individual contributions in this, in this context, which for example in this piece that I'm conducting this week is about 150 people.
(14:35):
Oh my, now it's obviously with, you know, a gigantic chorus, that's not the position behind the orchestra so they're not that close to me, hearing individual voices out of that is difficult if not impossible.
But in the orchestra and those who are closer to me that is certainly part of the responsibility is to understand the individual and the collective at the same time.
(15:00):
And I'm very curious as to how to get the attention of one person or one performer who's maybe a little off tune or a little too fast.
How do you, how do you make sure that they see you and you can gesture specifically to one person.
(15:22):
Well, there are a couple different ways this works. Hopefully, they are attentive to me.
And you know they they are positioned in a way that obviously they're facing me.
And, you know, are looking up from their part, enough that they can engage with me, so that I don't have to do anything really specific to get their attention to to make a request of them.
(15:49):
Like throw a tennis ball at their head.
But there's also this phenomenon that I find very interesting that if someone not watching you, if you just continually stare at them.
Oh, eventually, they will engage with you. Right.
(16:10):
So, how about that technique. I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure there's a name for it I have no idea, but if that's the case that there's a musician I'm trying to get in touch with, you know, non verbally.
I will just just continue to look at them until they look at me, and then there's a realization that.
(16:33):
Maybe I need to be a little more engaged here, right, because he was looking at me directly looking for my eyes and I was not there. And I'm not saying this in a derisive way right maybe it's a hard passage and they needed to really be kind of looking at
every note for a moment.
But that, that tends to work pretty well.
(16:54):
You know, if you're not successful in that, which happens sometimes, then you can stop and give certain coaching to the orchestra or make specific requests of them.
And that's part of it, but in general orchestras vastly prefer conductors who are able to give the information physically instead of talking all the time, because they're there to play not listen to you talk.
(17:21):
So then, that's, excuse me, how you got the attention of one person, say you want to have one section, like all the brass or to to respond to you.
How to, how do you communicate to a group, a subgroup, because at each of one of them individually.
(17:45):
Yeah, that is, it's a good question there's the, and there's some complexity to that and the way that these instruments operate in the technique that is used to play them varies from section to section so for example with strings there have a bow that they're putting on
the string, and they have a lot of control over exactly how that both starts to move at what speed the pressure they're putting on the string, etc. right.
(18:11):
So that invites a certain gesture of vocabulary wins, for example, let's say, especially double reads like the oboe bassoon, the attack is much more immediate right because they have to pressurize so much air through that small read to make the sound that
doesn't just go right that just doesn't operate that way so there's always a little, a little front to the sound so it's the right. And so, the obviously that requires me to just truly communicate a little bit differently to if I want them to sound the beginning
(18:49):
together. Well I can't give some wishy washy gesture because then they'll all enter at different times, and it's my fault. I did not give them the proper information. So I have to be a little more articulate with them so that they know exactly where to place the note.
And there's also a number of things that are just very simple kind of international sign language gestures, and I don't mean actual sign language right like in the linguistic idea but, for example, if I hold up my hand with my palm to you.
(19:28):
What does that mean.
It means stop right. Yeah, exactly right. So we all we understand that as stop right. Or if I'm doing that and might maybe my palm is not straight out to you but I'm sort of pushing it down.
I'm, I'm, you know, depressing something. Well, that that to most people means quieter, less right, whereas also if I turn my palm up and I start encouraging and moving it upwards, either fast or slow that tends to invite more sound.
(20:02):
So those are just some of the gestures that I can use to communicate, whether it's an individual and player an entire section the entire ensemble.
Those are things that are tools that I very regularly use.
Nice.
(20:24):
Well, that brings us to another point that I had, or another question maybe about about gesturing. Now, those are the most obvious gestures that most of us know or we can generally figure out without having any lessons on on working with you.
(20:45):
But, you know, I was thinking about your gesturing now it. Those are the simple ones it's got to be extremely complex motion that you're engaged with. And can you tell me a little about to your whole feeling your stance on the state on the podium your, your, your general
motion because I think it's I see that almost like a dance.
(21:11):
It is trying to it. When I think about the physicality of it.
And I'm just sitting here right now reminding myself to sort of open my chest.
I am a big Pilates fan.
Because that's something that is really aided by conducting a lot and especially in, in, you know, my, my body language right because that's like I mentioned I talked about the gesture vocabulary what's happening in the, in the hands and the wrist and the arms, etc.
(21:46):
But it's also just about, like you mentioned stance. It's also facially important that you're communicating.
But my stance on the podium certainly impacts the music. I can remember when I was just starting out as a conductor and I was conducting this overture that was very fast and bright and spry and it felt very heavy from the orchestra.
(22:13):
It just did not have the bright character that it needed. And I did a quick scan of myself, and I noticed that my stance my feet were quite far apart, wider than shoulder width, right.
I thought, Aha, I'm going to bring my feet closer together, like, less than shoulder width apart. And the sound of the ensemble immediately changed as soon as I did. Right, because they saw me do that they saw me stand up a little bit taller.
(22:45):
I don't remember but I'm guessing I sort of opened my posture a little bit that I started being lighter in my feet, and that there was an immediate response without anybody saying a word.
And so, these things are very, very powerful that these ways of body language and body language is the fascinating thing and something that, again, fairly early in my career I read several books about, because it's, it's such a critical way of communicating
(23:17):
with the people in front of you. When you're conducting.
And again, it comes down to how much of this can I do without opening my mouth without saying a word. Obviously in rehearsal.
There are some things I have to say, right, just, they need to be said or coached a little a certain way or explained a little bit. But my goal is to utilize every tool I have to communicate this information without speaking, because in the performance,
(23:49):
that's what's going to happen. Right. And then you go the next step of how do I portray emotion.
Physically, right, and that can be you know if you want the sound to be really small like, I'm just, you know, I know people can't see me but sort of using gestures that sort of make it more compact or maybe you get those, you know the hands or in my case
(24:14):
you know I'm using a baton that are they vary in length, mine's 14 inches long.
And I got that in my right hand, but I can sort of cover the tip of the baton a little bit, or I can put a hand between the ensemble and the tip of the baton. That's very effective at getting them to kind of focus on being quieter.
(24:42):
And then and then you come to facial expression you know how can I that's one of the greatest tools for portraying emotion, right. What do I want to sound to be do I want to sound brave.
You know if I say that word. I don't know my body language reacts.
Right, if I say a word like that.
If I want it to be sorrowful.
(25:04):
Something right there already my hand has a reaction my face has a reaction.
My eyes are different.
And those, those are things that communicate to people, and very deeply in a way that you might not even be able to describe in words, but you're connecting on a different level on this non verbal intimate
(25:33):
level of trust that is very critical to empowered performances.
That is so nuanced. And I can tell by your description that these are gestures that you've stumbled upon that you find successful but can one say that this is a whole process that's not not not taught in conducting school, if there's, if that's a term.
(26:08):
Yeah, it is I.
I don't have a specific degree in conducting.
They are available.
And many of my colleagues do.
I went into this just pursuing a pursuit of being an excellent musician. That was my focus. Right. And so I went a little bit different path before I turned to conducting.
(26:33):
But there are.
Look, here's my view on it.
You can learn a conducting, quote unquote technique.
Right.
Just on the basics depending on the meter of the music you know how many beats to a bar is it 1234 or 123123 like in a waltz feel right and there are different gestures that you use to communicate that are somewhat universal.
(27:03):
You know, in training and for what an orchestra will quickly understand. Obviously there's a thousand nuances within those gestures, but
a lot of this is passed down.
A lot of the finer points of this are are passed down.
Because conducting is a craft.
(27:25):
And it's passed down, you know, I had the fortune to have some excellent mentors and then at a critical point in my life be the assistant and protege have a very, very famous conductor, and you learn a lot by watching.
Right and watching and seeing what is successful and also what is not so successful.
(27:47):
Because all of us conductors are flawed at some level and you know you can often learn a lot about what not to do by watching something so and it's something that I still do today I you know if I see something on YouTube of a you know performance
that I'm just happen to be listening to all watch and see. Oh wow, that was a really interesting gesture they made that that incited something really great.
(28:17):
And I might just steal that move.
So it's a continual process and something I still think about today about refinement of the craft and how and how I give this information and portray music through my body.
I've never thought of it that way.
That's interesting and, you know, you said earlier you started out as a musician. What type of musician were you.
(28:44):
Piano was my main instrument, and the only thing that I ever played at a professional level. I did study some cello when I was a kid and then when I got interested in conducting in college I started studying violin, because I wanted to understand better
string technique.
Obviously there, you know, there are more string players than anybody else in the orchestra.
(29:06):
And so, I wanted to really gain some fluency and how to communicate with string players on a technical level. So that required me gaining a semblance of understanding of what they're doing the physical mechanics of it, the possibilities of the instruments.
(29:30):
The challenges that a double bass player might have that a violinist does not have, and vice versa.
So that was that was very important part of my study, but really it did all come down to years and years of piano lessons, you know that continued really through the end of my graduate studies.
(29:51):
That's really quite fascinating because I can imagine how this personal inquiry into the instruments and how they function has helped you so much in being a conductor because as you were describing quite earlier in the podcast, how you are paying attention to
(30:13):
those nuances and you understand what each person is engaged with and what their challenges are in terms of the different nuances of their instrument.
To me, one of the greatest leadership moves there is, is to be able to speak to someone in their language.
(30:39):
And speak to someone in a way that they immediately understand that indicates that you understand that.
Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. And so, if I can look at a string section and say something in a way that they don't have to translate what I'm saying to make it effective for them.
(31:06):
That it's just, it's faster and they feel understood. Right. They feel like, oh, he gets us right. And it's the same if I look at the, you know, the French horns and I make a request.
Well, it's much more effective if I can use language that they use all the time. Right. That's their lingo. And instead of saying something that then they have to say, well, what exactly does he mean? I don't know. Do we ask? Do we pretend we understand what he wants?
(31:39):
You know, versus just me delivering actionable information immediately. And of course, questions do always come up clarifying questions. Right. And you want that as a leader.
But again, how great is it if you can speak to someone in their own language, even at an elemental or elementary level? That's a big, that's a powerful tool as a leader.
(32:11):
Yeah, yeah.
That makes so much sense.
But talking about listening to other people through their own language, you know, you have a strong history of collaborating.
And can you tell us a little bit about how your collaboration process works and who you enjoy collaborating with?
(32:40):
Collaboration was what got me into conducting.
Oh.
Because I was an undergraduate and I was a hard core pianist.
And two things happened.
The first was I sustained an injury to my right arm that made it clear that a career as a pianist was not possible.
(33:06):
And that was simply because I could not sustain the hours and hours and hours of practice required to be a professional pianist.
Now, that doesn't mean I, you know, I studied piano through grad school and spent, you know, a good six hours a day at the keyboard, for sure.
But that's not enough to be, you know, a very fine concert pianist, for example.
(33:32):
And the second thing that happened was I realized that I didn't like spending all of this time by myself in a room with a piano.
And that's really what it is, right?
It's a pretty lonely thing.
And a lot of people do that very well or a lot of people find kinship with the instrument in that situation.
(33:56):
I didn't.
And I began to realize that my greatest joy in music making was doing it with other people.
And whether that was accompanying a singer or an instrumentalist or playing chamber music or whatever it might be, that that's what brought me to life musically.
(34:17):
Making music with other people.
And that's still the fuel to my fire today.
And I'll give you an example.
So the severity requiem that I mentioned I'm conducting this week, large orchestra, large chorus, four vocal soloists.
Right.
And so, of course, I've had some rehearsals with just the soloists this week.
(34:40):
And I love tailoring the experience to their individual instruments and musicianship.
And singers are very, very individual, right, because they're not playing an instrument.
The instrument is their body.
And, you know, these small little things about the body, you know, the vocal cords, the resonance chambers, et cetera.
(35:08):
And I really get a kick out of listening to them.
Understanding what they might need vocally, whether they know it or not.
Most of the time they know it.
Sometimes they don't quite know.
But you can help them in a way that maybe they didn't even understand they needed.
But I love that process.
(35:30):
I just love it.
And so collaboration for me is life.
And collaborating off the podium, you know, I have two music director jobs.
And collaborating with the administrative teams in these institutions, I find great joy in.
And talking about ideas and how to advance the goals and the vision of the organization.
(35:54):
And so collaboration is something for me that is really the lifeline, the lifeblood for me and in really every area.
And I love what happens when you have a good collaboration is that multiple people feel fulfilled.
(36:15):
That's true. And to me, that's so much more interesting than just my own individual fulfillment, because that is fleeting.
Yeah.
Much more lasting and less temporal is a group feeling of fulfillment, because that spreads.
(36:36):
Right. That's something that's contagious.
And I really, really love that.
And that is how you build a community, too.
That's right. That's exactly right. You can't build community without people feeling like their voice makes a difference.
(36:57):
Their voice counts.
Yeah.
And, you know, we see this in our culture right now that, you know, there's a lot of talking going on, but there's very little listening happening.
And this is often a problem with people. And one of the bigger reasons why I wanted to do this podcast was to bring attention to the importance of listening and how it builds a community and it creates a sustained environment to help a community move forward.
(37:34):
Yeah, that's right.
And this, that was the really the impetus for my podcast, too, is, of course, as a conductor, the most important thing I do is listening. Right. I think from the conversation up to now that the listeners probably ascertained that without that I can't do any even the next step of my job.
(38:00):
But this does transfer to humanity, you know, to humankind, and it's difficult for me to think of a more important thing, something that impacts every area of everyone's life and their interaction with others, whether that's small or large.
(38:26):
To me it all comes down to listening, whether that's my five year old son.
And when he's saying something, understanding the words he's saying, understanding what he's not saying what's behind the words that he's saying, what is he communicating to me physically and with his body language doesn't match what he's saying.
(38:47):
And, you know, and understanding.
You know, fully as fully as possible.
What someone is communicating to you is, is the step to unlocking everything else.
Right, and with children it's it's how to sustain an engaged relationship.
(39:15):
Absolutely.
It's not just human, or not just human animals you know, my family we have two dogs it's the same.
Everyone is better when they feel heard.
Because then they feel like they are empowered in themselves.
(39:40):
And I don't know what greater gift you could give someone.
I think that's a wonderful way of putting it.
Thank you.
So, what's next on your calendar.
Next on my calendar so I have performances here in Austin this weekend, and then I am back on Oh, you'll get a kick out of this talk about listening.
(40:12):
So, the Spoleto Festival USA which is based in Charleston, North Carolina, where I'm music director of the orchestra. This is a 17 day festival and late spring early summer.
It's a multi disciplinary festival over 100 performances in 17 days.
All on the peninsula Charleston so every venue is within a 10 minute walk of others, and it's a very cool thing it's it's, I really have to dream jobs, honestly.
(40:42):
And so, one of the special things about Spoleto, as you mentioned in the introduction is that this is a bespoke orchestra every year.
And formed by, you know, the many of the most promising early career classical musicians in the world. And part of that involves, of course, then we have to hear auditions, right.
(41:10):
And so last year, we heard almost
almost just under 500 auditions.
And out of that we brought 90 around 90 musicians to the festival.
And so, part of that is an audition tour so we do we do accept recorded submissions so there's no barrier to anyone applying, but we do this, we added a city so now it's an eight city audition tour.
(41:47):
And so, myself, and my colleague who's the manager of the orchestra traveled to these cities, and we hear, you know, player after player after player and you know seven minute increments from, you know, morning noon and night.
And so, after I finished performances here in Austin I fly straight back to the audition tour for another 10 days or so to finish that and you know that's another interesting thing about listening is you know you obviously you're sitting here and I think
(42:20):
one of the things that maybe a lot of maybe some people don't understand is listening is very fatiguing when you're doing it well. It's, I once I had a, you know, kind of state earlier on in my life of working in recording studios and film a lot and I
had a really well known recording engineer, describing to me like you know that that's the sense that hearing is the sense the fatigues the fastest.
(42:51):
And so, when you're in a recording studio. Well, a long working session does not mean that you're getting better at the end you're probably getting worse, right, because these senses start to fatigue, and they don't you don't have the same sharpness in your, in your hearing or you're listening,
or the same sort of critical critical I was gonna say critical either critical ear to it.
(43:15):
And that's a very interesting thing this audition tour because it's a lot it's hours upon hours of listening. And really in listening in a way that you can evaluate from a number of metrics.
Is this person a fit for the orchestra, or even is this person a fit for the orchestra, this year, or maybe not quite yet.
(43:41):
Maybe that's a really wonderful flute player but does not match in sound, what we need for the rest of the section. So, it's another fascinating process and honestly, it's a great joy also to hear these terrific young musicians come in, and they're, you know,
they're all right at the sort of the end of their training in the beginning of their careers and so there's this fire and energy and nervousness and, you know, passion and inexperience and all of these things just manifest and I always equate it to people
(44:16):
who are like, I'm gonna explain it like this is the difference like college sports versus pro sports right is like, and this is why I love college sports more because there's a bit of unpredictability right you have a kind of high technical proficiency here.
And the mistakes that happen are often unpredictable right. Whereas, I think professionals you know it's it's very much ingrained right and there's the there's a rhythm there that they developed over those you know thousands of hours but with with younger musicians
(44:49):
it's it's it's very exciting, because there's just this energy that I really adore about it and it's one of the things that makes that that job of great joy.
I yeah and I and I understand and I enjoy also that energy of the youth, it's it's captivating.
(45:13):
Yeah, it really is and I think you know the performances of the orchestra at this Boleto Festival are very special.
Just because of what I because of what I just explained right, it's not that you can't hear finer performances of this music or more polished performances of this music you certainly certainly can, you know, go listen to the New York Philharmonic or something
you know, whatever. But there's a unique energy and and and drive that comes in in these performances because of the the youthful exuberance and feeling and, and, you know, it also relies on me to communicate with them in a way that that harnesses that and supports
(45:58):
them when they need support, because they're not as experienced, or just, you know what sometimes the best thing I can do is just not get in the way.
Well, Tim, that is so interesting that whole comment of not getting in the way.
I unfortunately have to interject and get in the way because this has come to the end of our time together already. Oh, bummer. I know, I know it's been so much fun.
(46:30):
But hopefully we'll be able to do this again further along in your career and love to love to speak with you then so thank you so much.
Thank you, China. Great to chat with you.
Thank you, Timothy.
Thank you for listening to this episode of listening with China Blue.
I hope it inspires you to build your own listening practice.
(46:54):
This begins as a daily practice of attentively listening without judgment, and ask yourself, what is your version of silence.
If you want to learn more about me and my work, go to ChinaBlueArt.com, and please follow me on Facebook and Instagram.
Thank you.
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