November 4, 2024 • 54 mins
In this episode we will hear from the Columbian born and UK residing sound artist Dr. Ximena Alarcón Díaz. She is a sound and listening artist-researcher exploring embodied forms of sensing place and telepresence to listen to and sound collectively our sonic migrations. She speaks about how migration and geographical changes alters the sense of bodily placement and leads to dislocation. She also addresses the idea of relational listening in the concept of cultural inbetweeness and uses Anna Mendieta's performances are one illustration of this idea.
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(00:00):
Welcome to listening with China Blue.
(00:03):
This is a podcast that focuses on how listening not only informs us about what is occurring in the world around us,
but also helps us connect with others,
build stronger businesses,
strengthens our mental health,
and become more creative and compassionate individuals.
As more and more people practice attentive listening in a community,
(00:23):
it becomes a community building practice that
strengthens our mental health as we learn from our neighbors.
I will be interviewing people from all walks of life to learn how listening has informed them in their field
and help them to make intelligent decisions.
They will be artists, musicians, composers, dancers, business people, psychologists, neuroscientists, and Buddhists, to name a few.
(00:51):
About me, I'm an internationally exhibiting sound-based artist.
In my work, Discovering Unheard Sounds, I realized that the core component that drove my work was simply listening.
That realization put me on the path of speaking about and helping people learn to become better listeners.
(01:11):
I began with leading sound walks, which I continue to do in the upstate New York region,
to help people learn to listen from nature.
And now, tune your ears to this podcast to learn about the power of listening.
And do pay attention until the end for further information on how to start your own listening practice,
(01:34):
share it with others, and to support listening with China Blue.
Today we are here with Dr. Shamina Alarcon-Diaz,
who is a sound artist and researcher interested in listening and sounding sonic migrations.
She defines this as the resonance left in between the borders we cross when we tune in and meet others in distant locations.
(02:01):
Throughout her career, she has created telematic sonic improvisations and interfaces for relational listening
to understand sensorally migratory experiences.
Shamina is a deep listening certified tutor with a PhD in music technology and innovation.
In her work, she composes hybrid listening rituals with musicians and non-trained musicians
(02:26):
and improvises with spoken word and voice.
She also leads the Intimal Collective of Latin American migrant women listening to their migrations
and expanding notions of femininity, territory, and care.
Today, Shamina will tell us about her upcoming book on migrant listening called Sonic Migrations.
(02:50):
Welcome Shamina.
Thank you. Thank you so much, China Blue, for that introduction.
I'm so happy to have you here.
First, tell us a little bit about this intriguing book and how the idea came about to create it.
Well, I've been working in the book for a long time. I still haven't finished it yet.
(03:16):
The idea is, there is one idea that is to consolidate all the work that I have been doing
and all my listening of myself and others within the context of migration.
And with the practices of telematic sonic performance, which is how it was the practice
(03:43):
that I focused on to be able to listen to these migrations.
So I felt that the telematic medium, when you are connected as we are between these locations
and all what happens in between, help us a lot to tune in our migratory self.
(04:11):
So the book is a consolidation of my thinking and my research on migratory listening from an inner perspective.
So I'm not talking about necessarily I'm listening to migrants or I'm listening necessarily to music
(04:32):
make my migrants, which also there is very interesting work in that respect.
But I'm talking about this very difficult to define thing that we feel when we feel somehow culturally
and sensorially dislocated and sound is a very important space and medium to understand that and to listen to them.
(05:03):
Oh, great. That sounds so fascinating.
Just for those who do not know what could you explain a little bit what telematic means?
Sure. Telematic is basically connecting across the distance with computing medium.
(05:24):
So tele is at a distance and telematic is using computers, but also, I guess, using other networks.
For example, radio transmission could be a way of telematic too.
But using mediums to connect and transmit sound in this case, when I talk about performance,
(05:53):
but it could be any data across this location.
But it's a way of connecting using technology.
OK, that's a very simple one. Using technology. Great.
Well, in our prior conversations, you had talked a lot about how geography changes
(06:16):
a sense of place of where you are and where you're moving to.
And knowing your personal experience with migratory experiences through,
I think you said, three different country experiences.
Could you tell me a little bit about how geography changes the sense of place for a migrant?
(06:40):
Yes. Well, there is a sense of location, let's say, body location that happens to all of us as humans
because our sense of location is when in our childhood or where we are born,
(07:01):
we have certain conditions to explore and understand the place where we live.
And that could be especially because of the architecture where we are,
but also about the land where we are. So certain mountains, certain lakes.
So you grew up in particular landscape and that is an important sense of location,
(07:29):
not only about knowing where is the south, the east, the north and the west,
but also which is actually very important, but actually is about the emotion,
emotional attachments that you have to a place.
And that is all the relationships that you have created and how you start to inform who you are
(07:57):
and how you are perceived by others and how that perception of others also informs the perception of yourself,
which is kind of bidirectional, but it's very important.
So this sense of location changes a lot when you migrate because first, as I was saying about the geography,
(08:23):
so that changes completely, changing of weather, of routine, just waking up at which time,
going to bed at which time, how the light is important for you, the sunlight.
And then there is a sonic part that is the surrounding environment, the sounds.
(08:46):
The sounds also that you wake up with and all the sonic environment that surrounds you.
That is also a very important part of the location and feeling that you are part of that polyphony,
daily life polyphony. And when you migrate also, you have in sonic terms, you have your voice
(09:10):
and the voice changes when you either when you change of a place where they speak the same language,
but you will have different accents, different ways of understanding things that you thought that you understood before.
And it's a bit more complicated when you change of spoken language because the voice, the inflections,
(09:38):
everything changes. You need to learn it. And all of that socially, you start to have a new kind of childhood
because you are given again the steps, the sonic steps to be able to communicate to others,
to be perceived by others and that the others perceive you too.
(10:01):
And that involves also cultural issues according to your age and cultural memories also,
because you in order to locate, you start to bring things from where you were to try to,
yeah, try to manage in the new environment. Yeah.
(10:25):
Oh, that's so interesting. That's that's really fascinating.
I'm listening to you, but also listening to your particular sonic environment, which is accompanying you today.
I was imagining somebody making espresso in the next room, but I guess it's upstairs, right?
Is actually is a shower in a in a in a toilet close by.
(10:54):
And I think is the system of heating also the system of heating the water.
So, yes, we have this and actually we don't have in this moment, but I'm surrounded by construction too.
So there is there is I mean, a neighborhood in which they are repairing the streets.
(11:17):
So I know that you've had multiple migratory experiences and I wanted to for the listeners to know a little bit about you through your migration experience.
Yes. Migration is a very complex issue and I have reflected a lot in my life.
(11:39):
So so we can talk, let's say about geographical migrations.
I've had internal geographical migrations from the capital of my country where I live, which is Colombia, where I was born.
I mean, Bogota, Colombia, I also migrated internally.
(12:00):
I lived in another city called Ibagué for one year in my life.
I will say that's my first migration within my country.
And and already I I sensed the difference and the how centralized is the country in Bogota,
(12:22):
which is something that I haven't realized if I don't go and live in another place within my own country.
Then my my first transnational migration is to Barcelona in Spain,
which of course is more radical because it's completely changing of country culture.
(12:47):
But also to to meet to be in Spain is to to be in the in the place of the colonizers, let's say of of of my country.
So that also has other connotations,
but also arriving in a place where the main language is not necessarily Spanish or Catalan.
(13:10):
So I also realize what is Spanish Spanish as a construction,
as a language, which doesn't belong necessarily to the reality of the many regions that are in Spain.
So so I go to to live also within the Catalan culture and to learn Catalan.
Speaking about accents and languages.
(13:34):
And and then I came back always when you come back,
you return to your country is also another migration,
even if it's the country that you know, because you already have had some changes.
So I came to to Colombia and back to Colombia and I lived three years here.
(13:54):
And then I left to the United Kingdom.
And in the United Kingdom, I have lived for 22 years or let's say 20 years.
So I there I was speaking in English or learning English because I at that time my English was very basic.
(14:18):
So I needed to learn English to a professional level to and within the UK,
I have lived in three cities, which is also very different.
Leicester, London and Bath.
And and then I had the opportunity to be in Norway.
So I lived in Oslo for two years.
I was also another another migration.
(14:41):
And yeah, so so this is this is at the moment.
And now at the moment, I'm I'm in Colombia and I've been here for now for three months or almost now four months.
That is the longest I've been since I left.
Oh, wow. It's it's exhausting thinking about moving to each of these locations,
(15:04):
learning the local language, adapting to the environment, being a productive person in that environment.
It's not you're just going as a visitor or a tourist, you know, you're you're doing something productive and
and getting to know the rituals and the the languages and the slang,
(15:32):
which is always something that shocks me because, you know, even if you might know the language,
there's there's all these nuances of language that that you that stumps you.
But to go to all these different locations takes a tremendous amount of strength, personal strength to do.
(15:53):
Yeah. And and adjustments to to adjust to this new life.
And even though you're coming back to Colombia, it's a different Colombia, too,
because you've been gone for a period of time. So you're different and the country is different.
And wow. Yeah, it is a lot and lots of strength and a lot of negotiations,
(16:17):
meaning what going back to my sonic migrations, which is this something that I have called relational listening
that that I of course, I'm very inspired and derived from deep listening and in relation with deep listening.
But relational listening is what I have proposed as as a form of negotiating this sense of place and sense of presence
(16:44):
that that needs because we need a balance within all these movements.
And and this comes with all the different factors, economic, cultural.
But this this sense when you feel something in your body because it's really embodied,
(17:07):
I'm trying to find ways, creative ways to negotiate that.
So it's how to negotiate sense of place and sense of presence.
And this is what I call relational listening.
And because when you leave the country, it's not just that you come here and you are just
trying to to attach, let's say, or to be part of this new landscape is that you also are leaving something behind
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and that that you are leaving is part of you.
And if you don't listen to that, it kind of haunts you.
And and you need to resolve all these things to eventually become what what I believe we migrant become,
which is more now I stop the multiplicity subject.
(18:00):
That is this this person who who is not longer one fixed identity that usually we think
that we have if we only live in one place.
I think we all have multiple identities, but it is easier to realize that when you are dislocated culturally and geographically.
(18:23):
So so my proposal is, OK, listen to all of that in a set of relations.
So you are not this or that you are not fixed.
And that is painful, particularly because this society wants to fix you.
But once you understand that is like having a boat is like having your own boat.
(18:49):
So, right, right.
So to to be a little bit more exact, I was wondering how you. Propose that with the people that we work with.
Do you do this as a workshop or is this a theory that you just develop or how does it evolve?
(19:12):
Yeah, it has been probably the other way around.
It has been a lot of practice.
And now when I'm trying to and I've been trying to moments in which I can develop some theories and concepts.
So, yes. It started precisely with my certification in deep listening,
(19:36):
which I studied with Pauline Oliverus.
And and I said, I want to explore this practice.
What can I do? And she said, what would you like to listen to?
And I said, I want to listen to my own migration.
And she said, OK, carry on.
And I didn't know how was that.
So I said, well, let's do workshops and let's do.
(20:04):
Yeah, deep listening workshops and practice.
So I was doing that first in in the living room of my house when I was living in Leicester at that time.
Leicester, England. And and I invited three other people who also have migratory experiences
(20:24):
and start to improvise sometimes with Pauline Oliverus scores,
I only and Hello is Gold scores and exercises.
And then I start to develop my own, which also they encouraged me to do.
And I start to do more kind of metaphors.
(20:45):
So I have explored letters, letters that people send you when you are in the distance.
So let's improvise with these letters.
Let's improvise with our feelings, with these letters, with the voices of who sent you the letter
and with the voice that you have when you read that letter.
So I start to to work with, let's say, narratives of the distance.
(21:10):
And and then I also I've been working with technology networking technology.
So so I add I added the layer of networking technologies.
And that was telematic performance, which is to bring a group of people who are in distant locations,
who want to explore their migrations, having kind of a sonic games with narratives of migration.
(21:35):
So so the first one was about letters and called letters and bridges.
I did between Mexico and Leicester with artists and other participants from different parts of the world
who wanted to explore that.
How do they sound? How they sound?
The letters, the messages of people who send you letters in different languages that not everyone understands.
(22:05):
And also then I I I had another with dreams.
So dreams have been very important.
I said that telematic.
Telematic medium and dreams are metaphors and vehicles of migrations.
So I started to to work in dreams because all all the imagery and the experiences that we have
(22:31):
when we sleep could reflect a lot in which moment of migration we are.
Because we are free, we can travel.
We go into many different locations.
So that was very striking for me that the dream land is very migratory at that time.
(22:54):
And then I have worked a lot with language, language and voice, how to find your own voice
in in the sense that when you learn a new language and you record that voice,
sometimes you feel super like who is that person who is talking?
(23:16):
And when you record in your native language, probably you recognize something that you
thought that you have lost.
And all of that I have learned thanks to people who have participated in my performances
or their performances, the performances that I structure.
(23:40):
And so, yes, it's about creating narratives and the performances before have workshops
that lead to the performance.
I work with non trained performers mostly, so it's not necessarily to work with musicians.
(24:04):
But anyone who wants to explore their migration.
So, yes, it is with workshops and with art practice.
And the book is reflecting all of that.
As I work with others, I also work with myself.
So I learned about myself and my own migration is about again with the metaphor of the boat.
(24:31):
Like I'm driving the boat and many people come to the boat.
But each time people come to the boat, something also change, transforms in me and my own migration.
And also the latest work I did was to develop a technology that can reflect this experience
(24:55):
of migration with the full body, which is the intimal system.
You had also in a prior conversation mentioned a little bit about sonic exploration of
in between this and that touched me as in a very intriguing topic because it's so vague.
(25:26):
But capturing that space that happens after or before is an interesting idea to speak about.
So could you tell tell me a little bit more about sonic explorations of in between this?
(25:47):
Yes. Yes, I know it's vague because that's how it started.
And I started to say, I want to listen to this in between this.
And what is that is what I feel that is in my mind and in my body when I feel popularly,
(26:09):
I always say I don't feel I'm from there or from this other place.
Like when you say, but where I'm from and my proposal is, well,
there must be an in between space in the context of migration.
And if there is any in between a space that should sound somehow.
So I want to listen to that.
(26:31):
So I started to explore in between this.
And now I remember, fortunately, in this moment, the name of the philosopher called Mariana Ortega,
who talks about in between this first.
So I kind of found that as a theoretical support that she was analyzing the work of another artist,
Anna Mendieta, and how in her exile, she was also looking for this in between this with the land.
(26:58):
And there is an amazing photo.
This is not sonic, but I think it's very important where Anna Mendieta is in one of her performance.
Actions with the branch of a tree.
And she's lying on the branch of the tree.
(27:20):
And this is where she finds somehow the in between this.
And visually, you can see that you don't know is a leaf.
She's a leaf.
She's part of the bark of the tree.
So it was very interesting for me.
This approach, of course, that's visual.
Then there are other ideas such as being in the homie.
(27:43):
Baba talks about being in the third space that is cultural space.
So there are many approaches to that.
But when we go to sound is like, OK, what is that?
How does it sound?
I've been trying to listen to that with technologies.
Since the first telematic performance I did in 2012, and I have been using different technologies.
(28:11):
So from basic Skype at that time to then Jack Trip to to plug and sound, sound, sound Jack,
different technologies and also bring in different complexities.
(28:33):
So one thing is what we are doing.
Like you have a microphone and I have a microphone.
So this and we in my case, the idea is that the performers or the experimenters,
they were not seeing each other.
It was only sound.
So I was trying to say, OK, what is the in between us here is the exchange between them?
(28:56):
Is it just metaphor or is it actually sound?
And then I used other means like people could also record sound escapes and they can insert
the sound escapes while they are improvising.
So there was the voice and the sound escape.
(29:18):
And there is then overlapping between their voices.
So the dreams create kind of an interweave of dreams and that is an in between us is narrative.
What is that in my latest work with the with the intimal system?
I work with with breathing sensors.
(29:40):
I work with oral archives, memories of place.
And they were there was the most complex one that I have done between three locations,
between nine women with lots of technologies.
And these have.
The system to create the performer has different components.
(30:03):
One of them is the transmission.
So their transmission is something that goes.
Mix all these experiences and bring them only for online audiences.
So the audience that is in the physical location, they listen to something.
(30:24):
The women who are performing, they listen to another thing.
And people who are in distant locations and the online transmission that brings together
all the signals can listen to the mix.
So that day when I listen to the mix and I realized that they were synchronicities.
(30:47):
With the soundings that women didn't know they have because they only hear the sonification
of breathing sound of these locations, but they didn't hear what others were saying
in these locations.
When I heard these mix, I realized that they all were laughing at the same time and they
(31:12):
didn't know they were laughing at the same time.
And I found that and the sonic qualities, which is very on Eric.
I said, I'm arriving to a sense of in-betweenness.
And the in-betweenness is when in this moment, I think that is when.
In the interaction in the sonic interaction between many improvisers talking about their
(31:37):
emotions in migrations.
There is a layer that is being created.
And this layer help to support a feeling of togetherness between the improvisers.
And this is emotionally very powerful.
(31:58):
And I think eventually in this moment and thanks for asking because I think this is
in this moment, the in-betweenness is a new layer that is created by the sharing that
creates a kind of feeling that I'm not alone, that I'm with others and that this space is
(32:23):
okay.
It can exist.
Is this imaginary space where we all are being held because this is the issue with migration.
You feel that you are not hold.
Wow.
That's really a fascinating and intriguing jump.
It is and thanks for asking.
(32:47):
Congratulations.
That is that.
Yeah.
The because it togetherness is an emotional stage that we don't talk about to any great
degree, but we all aspire to.
There's always these conversations about socializing and being together and meeting and joining
(33:11):
and being a part of as a constant theme throughout everybody's life from the time they were born
until they pass on.
And a lot of it is normally driven by the assumption that human beings are social animals
(33:32):
and they need to be emotionally stable.
They need to have a network in a sense that will embrace them throughout their lives in
the different stages of their lives.
So identifying in-betweenness as this layer of connectivity, whether it's in the same
(33:57):
room in a group meeting or a workshop or whether it's through technology of some way that you
can identify it.
When the performers synchronize is kind of an exciting and brilliant way to describe
(34:20):
this new realm.
Yeah.
Yeah, and is is is a joy to listen.
There is something about the listening of when you realize that you are listening to
this is kind of a is is a is a yeah, it's a it's a feeling that there is something transcendental.
(34:50):
But also within this togetherness, because we move a lot between we want to be part of
something, but also we want to be what we want to be, whatever that is.
And that also has a sense of individuality.
So so I am depending on the from the culture where you are coming from originally, because
(35:17):
then you change kind of a lot, but it's interesting how the challenge when you reach the togetherness
is to and you reach this transcendence is like to to emerge as a as an individual that
(35:43):
you identify yourself, that is that that individual who you are and this agency and this voice
that you have.
So when we talk sonically with many voices, let's say improvising, one challenge that
I still have is how people can play between their own voice and the togetherness, which
(36:08):
is something that, of course, Pauline Oliveros work a lot, and she taught us a lot about
that is how nice to be with others and at the same time be aware of what is your contribution,
your sonic contribution to do that, and that you can go back to that and return to that
(36:34):
together and go back to your so.
So this this many exercise that she taught us that she composed are based on that on
this dynamic and and that I add the layer of migration and I feel that in that dynamic
you can within the context of migration, which is a context of of loss.
(37:01):
First is lost.
There's been a lot, but there's lots of loss, lots of sadness, nostalgia.
There is a period of that.
You can also find spaces to heal.
So this exercising can bring.
(37:21):
But for healing, which is another very complex thing.
I really believe that listening does create healing.
It is a complex route, but through patience and listening to the world around you, you
(37:46):
become more sensitive to what not only yourself, but also others around you and can create
a better relationship to your community, a stronger, healthier relationship.
So earlier you had mentioned about sense.
(38:09):
And space and relationality through your sonic experiences.
And I wanted to think, think and and have you speak a little bit more about that and
how that relates to.
Listening.
(38:32):
So there are kind of two issues that I have encountered in in my own migration and when
I listen to others experiences of migration, which is this.
This location of place.
So that's what we call sense of place or what researchers, particularly in anthropology
(39:01):
or in migrant and migration studies, they call sense of place, which is all these attachments,
emotional attachments.
So you have each time you go to a new place, you need to create a new network, as you were
saying initially, a new network, which is not only practical network, which is very
(39:21):
important to say, I don't know, even to find a job where things are located for your daily
life, but also is an emotional network and emotional network.
You take it from from for granted when in the place where you when you were born, you
(39:44):
you have your family, you have friends, you go to school and then you you go to work or
to study more.
And somehow you start to be part of the same network.
When you move, you have to build again that network.
(40:08):
And there are so many components about that.
So if you have forced migration, voluntary migration, so there are so many issues that
you have to to deal with.
And that's the sense sense of place.
So you have to build again all all of that.
But then there is another sense that is the sense of presence.
(40:30):
So sense of presence is a bit more difficult to to to define, but is is what what you feel
was left from you in the place where you were from.
Maybe in plain terms, if they remember you and what you remember from them.
(40:54):
If you are still part of the story, but also presence in the new place, because you can
be doing things like many migrants, particularly in the cleaning industry.
You you are you are cleaning many offices six in the morning, seven in the morning.
(41:14):
And there is something called invisibility a lot in migration.
That is to do also with certain jobs and social classes is where you are not perceived by
the other culture.
So there is a saying is like maybe we are invisible.
And there is one one document of migration in London about that exactly, which is called
(41:39):
no longer invisible.
So so there is a lack of presence in the place also where you migrate.
So you are dealing with your sense of place, but also you are living with a sense of that.
You don't have presence.
It seems that you you are a ghost basically.
(42:00):
So these are things that are not resolved.
These are things that are analyzed and studied by many scholars from many different disciplines.
One is human geography and.
And then to this sense, also I add the telepresence.
(42:24):
So I felt that the sense of presence could be also work creatively with these technologies
where we talk about telepresence.
So being present in with my voice in the place where you are.
So you are feeling my presence and we are in different countries in distant locations.
(42:48):
So all these that are lots of questions.
Individual stories, collective stories is a lot of complexity in migration.
I said, well, we need just to have a set of relations and listen.
How can we listen to our sense of place and how can we listen to our sense of presence
(43:10):
and telepresence and how can we listen with different references?
So with others who have experienced the same things.
So I work with Colombian migrant women, so we are from the same culture.
We have migrated to Europe, so we have commonalities.
(43:33):
But also you can listen with people from different cultures, but also experiencing migration.
And this relationality, which I focus on my latest work of the Intimal Project, it was
bringing the Colombian context and the post-conflict context in the Colombian history.
(44:01):
So that was in 2016 and with the signature of the peace agreement between the government
and the oldest guerrilla called FARC at the time.
(44:22):
So that event, that historical event was very important for all Colombians and also for
people who were abroad.
So because you have another in the distance, you have another relationship with your country
and you have more awareness of many other things.
So I work with oral archives of Colombian migrant women who have migrated, but who have
(44:46):
been forced to migrate because of the conflict.
And I work with a group of women, also Colombian, that were listening to these archives and
having an exercise of collective memory.
So that was very specific relationality.
(45:07):
So the relational listening that I proposed, it was to interrelate these oral archives,
memories of place, voice and language with experiences that they have had in different
places where they have migrated.
And also body movement.
How can we work with body movement interactively and how with all these mix, we can have an
(45:32):
exercise of relationality that could bring, could open paths for healing the loss that
is felt because of migration, but also the loss that is felt because of the history of
the country where we have lived, lots of violence and lots of where listening is needed to open
(45:59):
paths for healing or to see how we can have an influence in processes of peace building.
So that's a special relationality, but I think this relationality, that was the moment in
which I was able to talk and to have this theory out of the practice.
(46:23):
But this relationality, I feel that is valid for many contexts of dislocation that are
to do with migration, with violence, let's say the breaking of the social tissue and
also with the climate breakdown, which is our most present, I will say universal, that
(46:57):
all humans are living, like being what they call the estrangement of the place where even
you don't have to move to see how the environment is changing.
So that's a big thing that is happening and I think that applies also to that context.
I'm trying to absorb all this and it's so multifaceted and multi-directional, but I'm
(47:27):
walking away with one, the idea of human presence, which is living in the sense in the moment
where you have your particular experience of this particular moment and the next one
and the next one as you go through your life.
(47:49):
But each one is in this description is highly fragmented due to so many breakdowns and shifts
in constructions that used to exist, might exist now and could exist in the future.
(48:14):
So there's this kind of fragmentation that gets carried forward as you move and then
if you change your location, you add more levels of fragmentation onto that.
So it becomes this field of sometimes connected and sometimes disconnected experiences, feelings,
(48:46):
sounds and relationships that art has a unique ability to frame and bring into our
presence as you were doing this as a unit.
So it's bringing it into our presence and identifying how in a way as you slip into
(49:15):
the climate change, how it relates to everybody now, how life is shifting and changing in
such a spectacularly dramatic way that all of us are having these experiences and trying
to adjust as best we can, but adjusting also takes time and more experiences to come to
(49:44):
terms with or to just accept that this is the new, as they say, the new normal.
Yeah, yeah, it's the acceptance of the period in which we have to live and I need these
(50:08):
practices and this awareness, I will say help to that adjustment and to see what from this
fragmentation.
I mean, we are, I think we are humans, we are always trying to put the fragments together.
(50:28):
Is the way to make sense when we talk about making sense.
Right.
But I think these both art practice, listening, sounding and technology to stress the connectivity
because I think the technology is stressing, is highlighting the connectivity and making
(50:57):
it possible.
But I feel that also is training us to remind us of ways of connectivity that we have, but
we don't practice.
So once we disconnect, which is another kind of what I call ritual of disconnection when
(51:18):
we are very connected in this moment with technology, how to have this transition to
the moment in which ideally we are connected when if technology for some reason is not
there, we can continue this connection.
(51:39):
So I feel that we are getting trained to elevate our telepathic capabilities, sensing others
without words and having a transcendence of what we need in any culture, in any group
(52:04):
or any individual at that particular moment in time, what is needed to do, what we need
to do and what can we contribute.
And on that note, Shimina, I do have to say we only have a few minutes left.
That was just a really beautiful summation, I have to say.
(52:27):
So I wanted to just quickly ask you, when do you anticipate the book being released
and is there anything else you wanted to add to this?
Well, I would love that the book is released as possible in one year, where I trust that
(52:51):
this year, this coming year, I will have more consolidation of that, particularly about
the type of publication and the type of readers that I want to reach with that book.
(53:14):
I think that's what is needed to have the next big strength to consolidate the book
and I imagine that will be one year.
Oh, that's very exciting.
I'm looking forward to reading it, Shimina.
This has really been a very interesting talk with you and thank you so much for coming.
(53:39):
Thank you so much, Shaina Blue.
It has been wonderful to talk to you and thanks for your amazing questions.
That helps a lot, this consolidation.
So this is an important moment of the book, this podcast.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Listening with Shaina Blue.
I hope it inspires you to build your own listening practice.
(54:03):
This begins as a daily practice of attentively listening without judgment.
And ask yourself, what is your version of silence?
If you want to learn more about me and my work, go to chinabluart.com and please follow
me on Facebook and at Instagram.
(54:23):
Thank you.
Welcome to listening with China Blue.
(00:03):
This is a podcast that focuses on how listening not only informs us about what is occurring in the world around us,
but also helps us connect with others,
build stronger businesses,
strengthens our mental health,
and become more creative and compassionate individuals.
As more and more people practice attentive listening in a community,
(00:23):
it becomes a community building practice that
strengthens our mental health as we learn from our neighbors.
I will be interviewing people from all walks of life to learn how listening has informed them in their field
and help them to make intelligent decisions.
They will be artists, musicians, composers, dancers, business people, psychologists, neuroscientists, and Buddhists, to name a few.
(00:51):
About me, I'm an internationally exhibiting sound-based artist.
In my work, Discovering Unheard Sounds, I realized that the core component that drove my work was simply listening.
That realization put me on the path of speaking about and helping people learn to become better listeners.
(01:11):
I began with leading sound walks, which I continue to do in the upstate New York region,
to help people learn to listen from nature.
And now, tune your ears to this podcast to learn about the power of listening.
And do pay attention until the end for further information on how to start your own listening practice,
(01:34):
share it with others, and to support listening with China Blue.
Today we are here with Dr. Shamina Alarcon-Diaz,
who is a sound artist and researcher interested in listening and sounding sonic migrations.
She defines this as the resonance left in between the borders we cross when we tune in and meet others in distant locations.
(02:01):
Throughout her career, she has created telematic sonic improvisations and interfaces for relational listening
to understand sensorally migratory experiences.
Shamina is a deep listening certified tutor with a PhD in music technology and innovation.
In her work, she composes hybrid listening rituals with musicians and non-trained musicians
(02:26):
and improvises with spoken word and voice.
She also leads the Intimal Collective of Latin American migrant women listening to their migrations
and expanding notions of femininity, territory, and care.
Today, Shamina will tell us about her upcoming book on migrant listening called Sonic Migrations.
(02:50):
Welcome Shamina.
Thank you. Thank you so much, China Blue, for that introduction.
I'm so happy to have you here.
First, tell us a little bit about this intriguing book and how the idea came about to create it.
Well, I've been working in the book for a long time. I still haven't finished it yet.
(03:16):
The idea is, there is one idea that is to consolidate all the work that I have been doing
and all my listening of myself and others within the context of migration.
And with the practices of telematic sonic performance, which is how it was the practice
(03:43):
that I focused on to be able to listen to these migrations.
So I felt that the telematic medium, when you are connected as we are between these locations
and all what happens in between, help us a lot to tune in our migratory self.
(04:11):
So the book is a consolidation of my thinking and my research on migratory listening from an inner perspective.
So I'm not talking about necessarily I'm listening to migrants or I'm listening necessarily to music
(04:32):
make my migrants, which also there is very interesting work in that respect.
But I'm talking about this very difficult to define thing that we feel when we feel somehow culturally
and sensorially dislocated and sound is a very important space and medium to understand that and to listen to them.
(05:03):
Oh, great. That sounds so fascinating.
Just for those who do not know what could you explain a little bit what telematic means?
Sure. Telematic is basically connecting across the distance with computing medium.
(05:24):
So tele is at a distance and telematic is using computers, but also, I guess, using other networks.
For example, radio transmission could be a way of telematic too.
But using mediums to connect and transmit sound in this case, when I talk about performance,
(05:53):
but it could be any data across this location.
But it's a way of connecting using technology.
OK, that's a very simple one. Using technology. Great.
Well, in our prior conversations, you had talked a lot about how geography changes
(06:16):
a sense of place of where you are and where you're moving to.
And knowing your personal experience with migratory experiences through,
I think you said, three different country experiences.
Could you tell me a little bit about how geography changes the sense of place for a migrant?
(06:40):
Yes. Well, there is a sense of location, let's say, body location that happens to all of us as humans
because our sense of location is when in our childhood or where we are born,
(07:01):
we have certain conditions to explore and understand the place where we live.
And that could be especially because of the architecture where we are,
but also about the land where we are. So certain mountains, certain lakes.
So you grew up in particular landscape and that is an important sense of location,
(07:29):
not only about knowing where is the south, the east, the north and the west,
but also which is actually very important, but actually is about the emotion,
emotional attachments that you have to a place.
And that is all the relationships that you have created and how you start to inform who you are
(07:57):
and how you are perceived by others and how that perception of others also informs the perception of yourself,
which is kind of bidirectional, but it's very important.
So this sense of location changes a lot when you migrate because first, as I was saying about the geography,
(08:23):
so that changes completely, changing of weather, of routine, just waking up at which time,
going to bed at which time, how the light is important for you, the sunlight.
And then there is a sonic part that is the surrounding environment, the sounds.
(08:46):
The sounds also that you wake up with and all the sonic environment that surrounds you.
That is also a very important part of the location and feeling that you are part of that polyphony,
daily life polyphony. And when you migrate also, you have in sonic terms, you have your voice
(09:10):
and the voice changes when you either when you change of a place where they speak the same language,
but you will have different accents, different ways of understanding things that you thought that you understood before.
And it's a bit more complicated when you change of spoken language because the voice, the inflections,
(09:38):
everything changes. You need to learn it. And all of that socially, you start to have a new kind of childhood
because you are given again the steps, the sonic steps to be able to communicate to others,
to be perceived by others and that the others perceive you too.
(10:01):
And that involves also cultural issues according to your age and cultural memories also,
because you in order to locate, you start to bring things from where you were to try to,
yeah, try to manage in the new environment. Yeah.
(10:25):
Oh, that's so interesting. That's that's really fascinating.
I'm listening to you, but also listening to your particular sonic environment, which is accompanying you today.
I was imagining somebody making espresso in the next room, but I guess it's upstairs, right?
Is actually is a shower in a in a in a toilet close by.
(10:54):
And I think is the system of heating also the system of heating the water.
So, yes, we have this and actually we don't have in this moment, but I'm surrounded by construction too.
So there is there is I mean, a neighborhood in which they are repairing the streets.
(11:17):
So I know that you've had multiple migratory experiences and I wanted to for the listeners to know a little bit about you through your migration experience.
Yes. Migration is a very complex issue and I have reflected a lot in my life.
(11:39):
So so we can talk, let's say about geographical migrations.
I've had internal geographical migrations from the capital of my country where I live, which is Colombia, where I was born.
I mean, Bogota, Colombia, I also migrated internally.
(12:00):
I lived in another city called Ibagué for one year in my life.
I will say that's my first migration within my country.
And and already I I sensed the difference and the how centralized is the country in Bogota,
(12:22):
which is something that I haven't realized if I don't go and live in another place within my own country.
Then my my first transnational migration is to Barcelona in Spain,
which of course is more radical because it's completely changing of country culture.
(12:47):
But also to to meet to be in Spain is to to be in the in the place of the colonizers, let's say of of of my country.
So that also has other connotations,
but also arriving in a place where the main language is not necessarily Spanish or Catalan.
(13:10):
So I also realize what is Spanish Spanish as a construction,
as a language, which doesn't belong necessarily to the reality of the many regions that are in Spain.
So so I go to to live also within the Catalan culture and to learn Catalan.
Speaking about accents and languages.
(13:34):
And and then I came back always when you come back,
you return to your country is also another migration,
even if it's the country that you know, because you already have had some changes.
So I came to to Colombia and back to Colombia and I lived three years here.
(13:54):
And then I left to the United Kingdom.
And in the United Kingdom, I have lived for 22 years or let's say 20 years.
So I there I was speaking in English or learning English because I at that time my English was very basic.
(14:18):
So I needed to learn English to a professional level to and within the UK,
I have lived in three cities, which is also very different.
Leicester, London and Bath.
And and then I had the opportunity to be in Norway.
So I lived in Oslo for two years.
I was also another another migration.
(14:41):
And yeah, so so this is this is at the moment.
And now at the moment, I'm I'm in Colombia and I've been here for now for three months or almost now four months.
That is the longest I've been since I left.
Oh, wow. It's it's exhausting thinking about moving to each of these locations,
(15:04):
learning the local language, adapting to the environment, being a productive person in that environment.
It's not you're just going as a visitor or a tourist, you know, you're you're doing something productive and
and getting to know the rituals and the the languages and the slang,
(15:32):
which is always something that shocks me because, you know, even if you might know the language,
there's there's all these nuances of language that that you that stumps you.
But to go to all these different locations takes a tremendous amount of strength, personal strength to do.
(15:53):
Yeah. And and adjustments to to adjust to this new life.
And even though you're coming back to Colombia, it's a different Colombia, too,
because you've been gone for a period of time. So you're different and the country is different.
And wow. Yeah, it is a lot and lots of strength and a lot of negotiations,
(16:17):
meaning what going back to my sonic migrations, which is this something that I have called relational listening
that that I of course, I'm very inspired and derived from deep listening and in relation with deep listening.
But relational listening is what I have proposed as as a form of negotiating this sense of place and sense of presence
(16:44):
that that needs because we need a balance within all these movements.
And and this comes with all the different factors, economic, cultural.
But this this sense when you feel something in your body because it's really embodied,
(17:07):
I'm trying to find ways, creative ways to negotiate that.
So it's how to negotiate sense of place and sense of presence.
And this is what I call relational listening.
And because when you leave the country, it's not just that you come here and you are just
trying to to attach, let's say, or to be part of this new landscape is that you also are leaving something behind
(17:32):
and that that you are leaving is part of you.
And if you don't listen to that, it kind of haunts you.
And and you need to resolve all these things to eventually become what what I believe we migrant become,
which is more now I stop the multiplicity subject.
(18:00):
That is this this person who who is not longer one fixed identity that usually we think
that we have if we only live in one place.
I think we all have multiple identities, but it is easier to realize that when you are dislocated culturally and geographically.
(18:23):
So so my proposal is, OK, listen to all of that in a set of relations.
So you are not this or that you are not fixed.
And that is painful, particularly because this society wants to fix you.
But once you understand that is like having a boat is like having your own boat.
(18:49):
So, right, right.
So to to be a little bit more exact, I was wondering how you. Propose that with the people that we work with.
Do you do this as a workshop or is this a theory that you just develop or how does it evolve?
(19:12):
Yeah, it has been probably the other way around.
It has been a lot of practice.
And now when I'm trying to and I've been trying to moments in which I can develop some theories and concepts.
So, yes. It started precisely with my certification in deep listening,
(19:36):
which I studied with Pauline Oliverus.
And and I said, I want to explore this practice.
What can I do? And she said, what would you like to listen to?
And I said, I want to listen to my own migration.
And she said, OK, carry on.
And I didn't know how was that.
So I said, well, let's do workshops and let's do.
(20:04):
Yeah, deep listening workshops and practice.
So I was doing that first in in the living room of my house when I was living in Leicester at that time.
Leicester, England. And and I invited three other people who also have migratory experiences
(20:24):
and start to improvise sometimes with Pauline Oliverus scores,
I only and Hello is Gold scores and exercises.
And then I start to develop my own, which also they encouraged me to do.
And I start to do more kind of metaphors.
(20:45):
So I have explored letters, letters that people send you when you are in the distance.
So let's improvise with these letters.
Let's improvise with our feelings, with these letters, with the voices of who sent you the letter
and with the voice that you have when you read that letter.
So I start to to work with, let's say, narratives of the distance.
(21:10):
And and then I also I've been working with technology networking technology.
So so I add I added the layer of networking technologies.
And that was telematic performance, which is to bring a group of people who are in distant locations,
who want to explore their migrations, having kind of a sonic games with narratives of migration.
(21:35):
So so the first one was about letters and called letters and bridges.
I did between Mexico and Leicester with artists and other participants from different parts of the world
who wanted to explore that.
How do they sound? How they sound?
The letters, the messages of people who send you letters in different languages that not everyone understands.
(22:05):
And also then I I I had another with dreams.
So dreams have been very important.
I said that telematic.
Telematic medium and dreams are metaphors and vehicles of migrations.
So I started to to work in dreams because all all the imagery and the experiences that we have
(22:31):
when we sleep could reflect a lot in which moment of migration we are.
Because we are free, we can travel.
We go into many different locations.
So that was very striking for me that the dream land is very migratory at that time.
(22:54):
And then I have worked a lot with language, language and voice, how to find your own voice
in in the sense that when you learn a new language and you record that voice,
sometimes you feel super like who is that person who is talking?
(23:16):
And when you record in your native language, probably you recognize something that you
thought that you have lost.
And all of that I have learned thanks to people who have participated in my performances
or their performances, the performances that I structure.
(23:40):
And so, yes, it's about creating narratives and the performances before have workshops
that lead to the performance.
I work with non trained performers mostly, so it's not necessarily to work with musicians.
(24:04):
But anyone who wants to explore their migration.
So, yes, it is with workshops and with art practice.
And the book is reflecting all of that.
As I work with others, I also work with myself.
So I learned about myself and my own migration is about again with the metaphor of the boat.
(24:31):
Like I'm driving the boat and many people come to the boat.
But each time people come to the boat, something also change, transforms in me and my own migration.
And also the latest work I did was to develop a technology that can reflect this experience
(24:55):
of migration with the full body, which is the intimal system.
You had also in a prior conversation mentioned a little bit about sonic exploration of
in between this and that touched me as in a very intriguing topic because it's so vague.
(25:26):
But capturing that space that happens after or before is an interesting idea to speak about.
So could you tell tell me a little bit more about sonic explorations of in between this?
(25:47):
Yes. Yes, I know it's vague because that's how it started.
And I started to say, I want to listen to this in between this.
And what is that is what I feel that is in my mind and in my body when I feel popularly,
(26:09):
I always say I don't feel I'm from there or from this other place.
Like when you say, but where I'm from and my proposal is, well,
there must be an in between space in the context of migration.
And if there is any in between a space that should sound somehow.
So I want to listen to that.
(26:31):
So I started to explore in between this.
And now I remember, fortunately, in this moment, the name of the philosopher called Mariana Ortega,
who talks about in between this first.
So I kind of found that as a theoretical support that she was analyzing the work of another artist,
Anna Mendieta, and how in her exile, she was also looking for this in between this with the land.
(26:58):
And there is an amazing photo.
This is not sonic, but I think it's very important where Anna Mendieta is in one of her performance.
Actions with the branch of a tree.
And she's lying on the branch of the tree.
(27:20):
And this is where she finds somehow the in between this.
And visually, you can see that you don't know is a leaf.
She's a leaf.
She's part of the bark of the tree.
So it was very interesting for me.
This approach, of course, that's visual.
Then there are other ideas such as being in the homie.
(27:43):
Baba talks about being in the third space that is cultural space.
So there are many approaches to that.
But when we go to sound is like, OK, what is that?
How does it sound?
I've been trying to listen to that with technologies.
Since the first telematic performance I did in 2012, and I have been using different technologies.
(28:11):
So from basic Skype at that time to then Jack Trip to to plug and sound, sound, sound Jack,
different technologies and also bring in different complexities.
(28:33):
So one thing is what we are doing.
Like you have a microphone and I have a microphone.
So this and we in my case, the idea is that the performers or the experimenters,
they were not seeing each other.
It was only sound.
So I was trying to say, OK, what is the in between us here is the exchange between them?
(28:56):
Is it just metaphor or is it actually sound?
And then I used other means like people could also record sound escapes and they can insert
the sound escapes while they are improvising.
So there was the voice and the sound escape.
(29:18):
And there is then overlapping between their voices.
So the dreams create kind of an interweave of dreams and that is an in between us is narrative.
What is that in my latest work with the with the intimal system?
I work with with breathing sensors.
(29:40):
I work with oral archives, memories of place.
And they were there was the most complex one that I have done between three locations,
between nine women with lots of technologies.
And these have.
The system to create the performer has different components.
(30:03):
One of them is the transmission.
So their transmission is something that goes.
Mix all these experiences and bring them only for online audiences.
So the audience that is in the physical location, they listen to something.
(30:24):
The women who are performing, they listen to another thing.
And people who are in distant locations and the online transmission that brings together
all the signals can listen to the mix.
So that day when I listen to the mix and I realized that they were synchronicities.
(30:47):
With the soundings that women didn't know they have because they only hear the sonification
of breathing sound of these locations, but they didn't hear what others were saying
in these locations.
When I heard these mix, I realized that they all were laughing at the same time and they
(31:12):
didn't know they were laughing at the same time.
And I found that and the sonic qualities, which is very on Eric.
I said, I'm arriving to a sense of in-betweenness.
And the in-betweenness is when in this moment, I think that is when.
In the interaction in the sonic interaction between many improvisers talking about their
(31:37):
emotions in migrations.
There is a layer that is being created.
And this layer help to support a feeling of togetherness between the improvisers.
And this is emotionally very powerful.
(31:58):
And I think eventually in this moment and thanks for asking because I think this is
in this moment, the in-betweenness is a new layer that is created by the sharing that
creates a kind of feeling that I'm not alone, that I'm with others and that this space is
(32:23):
okay.
It can exist.
Is this imaginary space where we all are being held because this is the issue with migration.
You feel that you are not hold.
Wow.
That's really a fascinating and intriguing jump.
It is and thanks for asking.
(32:47):
Congratulations.
That is that.
Yeah.
The because it togetherness is an emotional stage that we don't talk about to any great
degree, but we all aspire to.
There's always these conversations about socializing and being together and meeting and joining
(33:11):
and being a part of as a constant theme throughout everybody's life from the time they were born
until they pass on.
And a lot of it is normally driven by the assumption that human beings are social animals
(33:32):
and they need to be emotionally stable.
They need to have a network in a sense that will embrace them throughout their lives in
the different stages of their lives.
So identifying in-betweenness as this layer of connectivity, whether it's in the same
(33:57):
room in a group meeting or a workshop or whether it's through technology of some way that you
can identify it.
When the performers synchronize is kind of an exciting and brilliant way to describe
(34:20):
this new realm.
Yeah.
Yeah, and is is is a joy to listen.
There is something about the listening of when you realize that you are listening to
this is kind of a is is a is a yeah, it's a it's a feeling that there is something transcendental.
(34:50):
But also within this togetherness, because we move a lot between we want to be part of
something, but also we want to be what we want to be, whatever that is.
And that also has a sense of individuality.
So so I am depending on the from the culture where you are coming from originally, because
(35:17):
then you change kind of a lot, but it's interesting how the challenge when you reach the togetherness
is to and you reach this transcendence is like to to emerge as a as an individual that
(35:43):
you identify yourself, that is that that individual who you are and this agency and this voice
that you have.
So when we talk sonically with many voices, let's say improvising, one challenge that
I still have is how people can play between their own voice and the togetherness, which
(36:08):
is something that, of course, Pauline Oliveros work a lot, and she taught us a lot about
that is how nice to be with others and at the same time be aware of what is your contribution,
your sonic contribution to do that, and that you can go back to that and return to that
(36:34):
together and go back to your so.
So this this many exercise that she taught us that she composed are based on that on
this dynamic and and that I add the layer of migration and I feel that in that dynamic
you can within the context of migration, which is a context of of loss.
(37:01):
First is lost.
There's been a lot, but there's lots of loss, lots of sadness, nostalgia.
There is a period of that.
You can also find spaces to heal.
So this exercising can bring.
(37:21):
But for healing, which is another very complex thing.
I really believe that listening does create healing.
It is a complex route, but through patience and listening to the world around you, you
(37:46):
become more sensitive to what not only yourself, but also others around you and can create
a better relationship to your community, a stronger, healthier relationship.
So earlier you had mentioned about sense.
(38:09):
And space and relationality through your sonic experiences.
And I wanted to think, think and and have you speak a little bit more about that and
how that relates to.
Listening.
(38:32):
So there are kind of two issues that I have encountered in in my own migration and when
I listen to others experiences of migration, which is this.
This location of place.
So that's what we call sense of place or what researchers, particularly in anthropology
(39:01):
or in migrant and migration studies, they call sense of place, which is all these attachments,
emotional attachments.
So you have each time you go to a new place, you need to create a new network, as you were
saying initially, a new network, which is not only practical network, which is very
(39:21):
important to say, I don't know, even to find a job where things are located for your daily
life, but also is an emotional network and emotional network.
You take it from from for granted when in the place where you when you were born, you
(39:44):
you have your family, you have friends, you go to school and then you you go to work or
to study more.
And somehow you start to be part of the same network.
When you move, you have to build again that network.
(40:08):
And there are so many components about that.
So if you have forced migration, voluntary migration, so there are so many issues that
you have to to deal with.
And that's the sense sense of place.
So you have to build again all all of that.
But then there is another sense that is the sense of presence.
(40:30):
So sense of presence is a bit more difficult to to to define, but is is what what you feel
was left from you in the place where you were from.
Maybe in plain terms, if they remember you and what you remember from them.
(40:54):
If you are still part of the story, but also presence in the new place, because you can
be doing things like many migrants, particularly in the cleaning industry.
You you are you are cleaning many offices six in the morning, seven in the morning.
(41:14):
And there is something called invisibility a lot in migration.
That is to do also with certain jobs and social classes is where you are not perceived by
the other culture.
So there is a saying is like maybe we are invisible.
And there is one one document of migration in London about that exactly, which is called
(41:39):
no longer invisible.
So so there is a lack of presence in the place also where you migrate.
So you are dealing with your sense of place, but also you are living with a sense of that.
You don't have presence.
It seems that you you are a ghost basically.
(42:00):
So these are things that are not resolved.
These are things that are analyzed and studied by many scholars from many different disciplines.
One is human geography and.
And then to this sense, also I add the telepresence.
(42:24):
So I felt that the sense of presence could be also work creatively with these technologies
where we talk about telepresence.
So being present in with my voice in the place where you are.
So you are feeling my presence and we are in different countries in distant locations.
(42:48):
So all these that are lots of questions.
Individual stories, collective stories is a lot of complexity in migration.
I said, well, we need just to have a set of relations and listen.
How can we listen to our sense of place and how can we listen to our sense of presence
(43:10):
and telepresence and how can we listen with different references?
So with others who have experienced the same things.
So I work with Colombian migrant women, so we are from the same culture.
We have migrated to Europe, so we have commonalities.
(43:33):
But also you can listen with people from different cultures, but also experiencing migration.
And this relationality, which I focus on my latest work of the Intimal Project, it was
bringing the Colombian context and the post-conflict context in the Colombian history.
(44:01):
So that was in 2016 and with the signature of the peace agreement between the government
and the oldest guerrilla called FARC at the time.
(44:22):
So that event, that historical event was very important for all Colombians and also for
people who were abroad.
So because you have another in the distance, you have another relationship with your country
and you have more awareness of many other things.
So I work with oral archives of Colombian migrant women who have migrated, but who have
(44:46):
been forced to migrate because of the conflict.
And I work with a group of women, also Colombian, that were listening to these archives and
having an exercise of collective memory.
So that was very specific relationality.
(45:07):
So the relational listening that I proposed, it was to interrelate these oral archives,
memories of place, voice and language with experiences that they have had in different
places where they have migrated.
And also body movement.
How can we work with body movement interactively and how with all these mix, we can have an
(45:32):
exercise of relationality that could bring, could open paths for healing the loss that
is felt because of migration, but also the loss that is felt because of the history of
the country where we have lived, lots of violence and lots of where listening is needed to open
(45:59):
paths for healing or to see how we can have an influence in processes of peace building.
So that's a special relationality, but I think this relationality, that was the moment in
which I was able to talk and to have this theory out of the practice.
(46:23):
But this relationality, I feel that is valid for many contexts of dislocation that are
to do with migration, with violence, let's say the breaking of the social tissue and
also with the climate breakdown, which is our most present, I will say universal, that
(46:57):
all humans are living, like being what they call the estrangement of the place where even
you don't have to move to see how the environment is changing.
So that's a big thing that is happening and I think that applies also to that context.
I'm trying to absorb all this and it's so multifaceted and multi-directional, but I'm
(47:27):
walking away with one, the idea of human presence, which is living in the sense in the moment
where you have your particular experience of this particular moment and the next one
and the next one as you go through your life.
(47:49):
But each one is in this description is highly fragmented due to so many breakdowns and shifts
in constructions that used to exist, might exist now and could exist in the future.
(48:14):
So there's this kind of fragmentation that gets carried forward as you move and then
if you change your location, you add more levels of fragmentation onto that.
So it becomes this field of sometimes connected and sometimes disconnected experiences, feelings,
(48:46):
sounds and relationships that art has a unique ability to frame and bring into our
presence as you were doing this as a unit.
So it's bringing it into our presence and identifying how in a way as you slip into
(49:15):
the climate change, how it relates to everybody now, how life is shifting and changing in
such a spectacularly dramatic way that all of us are having these experiences and trying
to adjust as best we can, but adjusting also takes time and more experiences to come to
(49:44):
terms with or to just accept that this is the new, as they say, the new normal.
Yeah, yeah, it's the acceptance of the period in which we have to live and I need these
(50:08):
practices and this awareness, I will say help to that adjustment and to see what from this
fragmentation.
I mean, we are, I think we are humans, we are always trying to put the fragments together.
(50:28):
Is the way to make sense when we talk about making sense.
Right.
But I think these both art practice, listening, sounding and technology to stress the connectivity
because I think the technology is stressing, is highlighting the connectivity and making
(50:57):
it possible.
But I feel that also is training us to remind us of ways of connectivity that we have, but
we don't practice.
So once we disconnect, which is another kind of what I call ritual of disconnection when
(51:18):
we are very connected in this moment with technology, how to have this transition to
the moment in which ideally we are connected when if technology for some reason is not
there, we can continue this connection.
(51:39):
So I feel that we are getting trained to elevate our telepathic capabilities, sensing others
without words and having a transcendence of what we need in any culture, in any group
(52:04):
or any individual at that particular moment in time, what is needed to do, what we need
to do and what can we contribute.
And on that note, Shimina, I do have to say we only have a few minutes left.
That was just a really beautiful summation, I have to say.
(52:27):
So I wanted to just quickly ask you, when do you anticipate the book being released
and is there anything else you wanted to add to this?
Well, I would love that the book is released as possible in one year, where I trust that
(52:51):
this year, this coming year, I will have more consolidation of that, particularly about
the type of publication and the type of readers that I want to reach with that book.
(53:14):
I think that's what is needed to have the next big strength to consolidate the book
and I imagine that will be one year.
Oh, that's very exciting.
I'm looking forward to reading it, Shimina.
This has really been a very interesting talk with you and thank you so much for coming.
(53:39):
Thank you so much, Shaina Blue.
It has been wonderful to talk to you and thanks for your amazing questions.
That helps a lot, this consolidation.
So this is an important moment of the book, this podcast.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Listening with Shaina Blue.
I hope it inspires you to build your own listening practice.
(54:03):
This begins as a daily practice of attentively listening without judgment.
And ask yourself, what is your version of silence?
If you want to learn more about me and my work, go to chinabluart.com and please follow
me on Facebook and at Instagram.
(54:23):
Thank you.
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