Dyslexia Talks: Empowering Students with Mentorship and Community Support

Episode Transcript
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Narrator (00:04):
Welcome to literacy talks, the podcast for literacy
leaders and championseverywhere, brought to you by
Reading Horizons. Literacy talksis the place to discover new
ideas, trends, insights andpractical strategies for helping
all learners reach readingproficiency. Our hosts are
Stacey Hurst, a professor atSouthern Utah University and
Chief Academic Advisor forReading Horizons. Donnell pons,

(00:26):
a recognized expert and advocatein literacy, dyslexia and
special education, and LindsayKemeny, an elementary classroom
teacher, author and speaker. Nowlet's talk literacy.

Donell Pons (00:38):
Welcome everyone.
I'm Donell Pons, and I'm heretoday with an extraordinary
guest, Dr Barbara WirostkoMorelli, MD, Barb is co founder
of the Joseph James MorelliFoundation created in memory and
in honor of her son Joseph JamesMorelli, the foundation supports
high school and college studentswith dyslexia who wish to pursue
a degree In a sciencetechnology, engineering or

(00:59):
mathematics field and Barb'sstory is nothing short of
remarkable. The foundationreally does things that are
inspirational, and itunderscores the power of
resilience, love and focus. I'mso excited to welcome Dr
Wirostko Morelli and introduceall of you to the Foundation's
remarkable work. So I'm going tostart off, and I'm just going to

(01:22):
begin with talking it to myfavorite person, which is a
pleasure for me today, Dr,Barbara Wirostko, and we've
known each other for quite awhile, and we'll kind of get
into that maybe a little bitlater. And you're one of my
favorite people in the wholeworld, besides having this
excellent background. Being aphysician, you're a caring,

(01:43):
professor, mentor, parent,friend. I mean, what don't you
do? And then this tremendouscommunity advocate, and that's
the piece that we'll be hittingon quite a bit today. And you
also have dyslexia, so I wantparents right away and folks
listening to know that youreally understand. Not only are
they going to be eating somegreat information because of

(02:03):
your background, but you reallydo understand this pathway and
the experience that folks arehaving. And you know personally,
what it's like to do collegewith dyslexia, I think that's
very important. And so for thevisuals to Barb's story, you
have a great TED talk, and I'mjust going to put that right in
there. We'll have it in the shownotes, so that folks can right
away if they want to know thatyou have a great TED Talk that
highlights your story reallywell, and I highly recommend it.

(02:25):
And I also think though, Barb, Iwant you to start off by telling
us about how the Foundation cameto be, and that will give
listeners a good idea of yourpersonal story, because that's
going to be in there. Obviouslythey're so they're linked and
the incredible work that you dosupporting college students, and
within that, I'm sure Barb willhave a moment to share how we
met and kind of how we startedencouraging each other. But why

(02:47):
don't we start there, and haveyou kind of tell us about the
foundation? How did it start?

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli) (02:52):
So first of all, thank you, Donell.
And I feel like I'm going tostart crying, right? Because,
yes, we've go back quite a quitea few years, and the feeling is
mutual. You're one of myfavorite people, and I love
exactly what you do in trying tochampion this whole area as
well. So Joseph, as people mayor may not, realize, was

(03:15):
severely dyslexic. He wasdiagnosed late as a high school
student in my TED talk, I talkabout how we were told that he
was not high school materialcoming from an excellent public
school system in New York, andwe had to fight to get him his
accommodations. We watched himgo from failing all his classes
to getting high honors once hegot accommodations, and it

(03:39):
really changed who he was, fromthe sense of it gave him a
purpose. It gave himselfconfidence, it made him feel
good about himself. And it allcame down to better grades,
which is so crazy when we take astep back and we think about how
we become so wrapped up and howpeople define who they are based

(04:03):
on their grades and where theygo to college and what their
careers are. We saw the giftthat accommodations gave him. We
saw how he became happy again.
He his depression went away, hisself esteem rose. So when he was
killed during a camping he wascamping with his friends in West

(04:27):
Yellowstone in September,September 6, 2014, and when we
got the news, of course,everybody wants to reach out and
do something. One of the thingsthat Joseph really enjoyed was
being out in the outdoors, andhe was very much about
sustainability. And you don'tknow what to do at the moment.

(04:47):
It's it's paralyzing, buteverybody wants to help. And all
I kept thinking was, Josephwould really hate people to
spend hundreds of dollars onflour. Dollars that are going to
get thrown out. So a good friendof mine said, Have you thought
about putting together ascholarship in his honor? And
Park City Community Foundationwas available to us that

(05:09):
weekend. Spoke to the theexecutive director, and she
said, Sure, we can help, and weput together a foundation. Had
no idea what I was doing, but Idid know there had to be other
kids like Joseph who werestruggling to succeed in school,
had learning challenges and weregoing undiagnosed and had to
fight the school system. We hadto hire a lawyer, we had to pay

(05:33):
for testing because the schoolsystem didn't want to recognize
that he actually had dyslexia,as they said, they would have
picked up on it back when he wasin grammar school. And the first
year, we thought we did reallywell, because we had eight
applicants, and we gave away, Ithink it was maybe like $2,000

(05:54):
and to two kids this past year.
We are now in our ninth year. Wehad 263 applicants, and we're
going to be awarding $125,000

Wow, that's fantastic. And Barb, you covered
a lot of ground in telling yourstory. And I just want to hit
some high points and highlightsome things for folks who are
listening, because they'reimportant. And one of those
things is, that Joseph, yourson, you had been through so
much together, and finally, atthis moment in Joseph's life,
things seem to be comingtogether for him. And that

(06:28):
really was, I think that'sreally been a key to the
foundation, is to provide anopportunity for other students
to get to that moment thatJoseph was able to have, where
things came together. He had thesupport that he needed. So I
think that's one of thoseawesome threads that runs
through your story. The otherpiece barb that we've got to
discuss a little bit is thatdyslexia was running through

(06:48):
your family, and in fact, youwere familiar with it, yet here
you have a child. Because thisis not unfamiliar for folks who
have dyslexia to also have achild with dyslexia and not know
quite what to do. So tell us alittle bit about that piece.

So I actually did not realize that I
had dyslexia until after Josephwas diagnosed. And both my
husband and I are physicians, wetrusted the school system. We
did not know why Joseph wasfailing all his classes in

(07:22):
particular. He was reallystruggling with a foreign
language and anything that waswritten and, you know, so
history English, but he alwaysaccelerated in math. And here he
was in high school, and he wasstarting to fail math as well.
And it turns out it was wordproblems. So it was actually our
pediatrician back in New York,whose son is also dyslexic, she

(07:46):
said to me, I think Joseph has alearning challenge. So again, we
didn't know. We didn't know whatdyslexia was. We didn't
understand it. All we knew isthat Joseph was really, really
bright, and his grades were notrepresentative of his
intelligence. And once he wasdiagnosed, and once we were able

(08:07):
to see and I learned a lot ofthe characteristics, I took a
step back and I said, Oh, myGod, that was me. That was me
struggling to spell, to write. Imean, in sixth grade, we had
last will and testament becausewe were graduating from sixth
grade going into middle school,and the teacher left, you know,

(08:29):
items for each of the students,and I was left the dictionary
because I could not spell and Icould not learn a second
language. It was painful for me.
And then even into medicalschool, I would have to rewrite
the textbooks, and I would nevergo back and actually review my
notes, but rewriting it, writingit, I realized, like Joseph, was

(08:53):
that visual. Was that tactile,that visual, and also saying it
and reading it to myself was howI taught myself how to learn.
And interestingly enough, I justhad a recent student, one of our
applicants. We'll meet Donnellas well. In his application, he
talks about how he rewrites histextbooks onto note cards, and

(09:19):
he doesn't necessarily need togo back and review them, but
it's just the act of writing itand seeing it is enough for him
to study. And I had to reach outto him, and I had to email him
and say, Oh my God, that'sexactly how I taught myself. And
then, out of our four children,Christina, our youngest, also
struggled with reading and I wewere able to pick it up. We were

(09:43):
able to get her support andtutoring and teaching her to
read through the Wilson methodas a as a kindergartner, because
we recognized all the all thesigns, yeah,

but. Gosh, your story is so compelling, and it
hits on a lot of things. And Iknow so many people are going to
identify with very lots ofpieces of what you're talking
about. I want to also have youemphasize again, the difficulty
that you had in the publicschool system getting support
for Joseph. The second timearound, you had some experience.
You kind of, you knew somethings right. You put that to

(10:20):
work for you, but that firsttime around, when you didn't
recognize, even though youyourself had struggled, found
your way through. It'sdifficult, isn't it, as a
parent, to find that help inpublic school and then that
transition from public school tocollege. Talk a little bit about
that transition from hardness inpublic school on to college?
Yes.

So again, it was so crazy, because
to have a child without theaccommodations, without the
testing, and of course, we hadto fight for the testing. We had
to get a parent advocate, we hadto get a lawyer to work with us,
and we had to go to the schooland again, say, you know, we

(11:04):
think you missed, you know,missed his diagnosis. And I
think what's so incredible withstudents with dyslexia is they
are so often so gifted, so theycan compensate. They can get by
until the work gets so hard thatthey just fail. They just can't

(11:24):
continue anymore. Andunfortunately, too, Joseph being
the firstborn. You know, thecommon themes we would hear, Oh,
he's so smart, but he's nottrying hard enough. So we would,
you know, just why aren't youtrying harder? You know, just
try your hardest. Like, youknow, it's okay if you don't get
good grades, but as long as youtry, teachers are telling us

(11:44):
you're not trying, you should bedoing better, and the poor kid
just could not do any better.
And I remember, when he wasfinally diagnosed in his grades
had improved to the point where,I mean, he was Dean's List, he
was honors. Still could not readpast the sixth grade level. We
had missed that boat. You know,unfortunately, when he started
doing Orton Gillingham, he wasalready a freshman, sophomore,

(12:07):
so we at least got him up to thepoint where he was able to
graduate and read. But luckily,he got books on tape. So going
from high school into college. Ithink it was so important for us
to go to the college. He was atMontana State. They had a great
they do have a great disabilityoffice. And really think about

(12:30):
his strengths, his weaknesses,and what could we do to set him
up for success? So we he had hisaccommodations. He had this
little I used to call it get outof jail card. It was a small
little card, a yellow card, thatwhen he wanted to use his
accommodations, all he had to dowas drop it on his teacher's
desk, professors desk, and thenshe would, or they or he would

(12:53):
allow him to get theaccommodations for that class.
We also made it a point to notload him up on credits. You
know, he didn't need to take thefull 15 to 18 credits that first
semester. We said, take 12. Andalso think about the classes.
Don't take the classes that youknow you're going to struggle

(13:14):
in. Don't take a class wherethere's three books that need to
be read for the class. Take aclass. Take an elective that's
more auditory learning, music,film, you know, something again,
that plays to your strengths. SoI think there's so much that we
could be doing for our studentsto really again, set them up for

(13:37):
success. And I think what we seewith our with our students
coming through the scholarship,is we all worry when an
applicant says, I don't want touse my accommodations. I want to
show that I don't need them. AndI equate it to if you're blind,

(13:57):
are you going to read withoutBraille? If you cannot hear are
you going to not use yourhearing aids? It's just, it's
what you need to learn. So Ithink it's so important to
really get, yeah, get use theresources that are available to
you. It's not, it's it's notembarrassing,

yeah, and normalizing that, right?
Normalizing being able to usethat absolutely. K, Barb, you've
touched on it. And I want toexplore this a little further,
because through your scholarshipfoundation, that first year you
had the two students, you'reable to give 2001 nine years in,
and the amount of money andstudents that you're impacting
has just grown, but you'velearned a lot of really good

(14:43):
lessons along the way, aboutexactly right. It's more than
just money when you havestudents who have dyslexia who
want to do college. So tell us alittle bit about some of those
lessons you've

Barbara Wirostko (More (14:53):
learned.
So you know, we thought we weredoing so well just by giving the
money. So these kids would reachout, and they would think, as
per. Few sleep and the lettersfrom the parents and the letters
from the kids about how someonebelieves in me. And then we
realized that the next year,they weren't reapplying. And I
would reach out to them andDonnell, you know, some of them,

(15:13):
and we would say, why did younot reapply? And they would say,
Well, I failed you. It's soembarrassing. You believed in me
and I failed. I switchedschools, dropped classes, took a
semester off, not going back tocollege, and it was
heartbreaking. So then westarted to say, Well, how do we

(15:33):
help them stay in college? Andwhat we are now seeing on the
flip side is we are seeing ourkids being really successful
through college. We'resupporting them, but now, as
they go through that nexttransition from college into
careers post graduate, they'refailing again. So we're like,

(15:54):
okay, what is it about? It'stransition. It's times of
transition. It's changes in waythey get accommodations. It's
changes the way they network,they advocate different social
situations. So we've nowrealized that a critical piece
to success is helping them inthat first transition. And this
year, we're actually going tohave mentors available to all

(16:17):
our incoming freshmen. So everyincoming freshman in our program
will have a mentor if they wantthem for that year, a freshman
year. And we're also going toput together zooms and webinars
to and podcasts like this tobasically help them throughout
their four years of college. Andthen also getting into that next

(16:39):
step, finding someone that theycould speak to as they move out
of that university or thatcollege setting, because it's
still very nurturing. You know,even though they're on their
own, it's not real world, soit's preparing them for that
next step. But that's what wereally learned. It's, it's so
much more than the finances,it's the belief. It's somebody

(17:02):
believes in me as kids wouldtell us, they would say, Perfect
Strangers are giving me money,and they believe that I can go
to college and be successful.
Wow, yeah,

and Barb, you're so right. I've had an opportunity
to meet many of your students.
You can't be involved with thisscholarship foundation and not
be moved, even if this is partof your own story, even if
dyslexia isn't new to you,you're going to be moved. You'd
be Stone Cold not to be moved bythese students. But there's
something interesting. There'sthere's a thread that you've
kind of picked up that I want usto make sure that we're

(17:36):
addressing your studentsoftentimes refer to you guys as
a family, and that's reallyinteresting. And when they say
they refer to you as a family,it's because they feel
understood. That piece that youbrought up, because here are
people who understand. I don'thave to explain myself. You
don't realize how often peoplewho have dyslexia have to
explain themselves if they getthe opportunity. And that's
interesting. Just feelingaccepted. I don't need to

(17:58):
explain. You get it, youunderstand. And then the other
pieces is that they have folkswho have similar circumstances
and situations, so they canshare. How do you handle that?
What do you do? Because theyfelt pretty isolated growing up
in handling

Barbara Wirostko (Morell (18:12):
right?
Yes, and that's something thatwe heard again and again, and
even with Joseph, I think, youknow, we didn't know, you know,
we didn't know who to turn to.
We didn't know if other studentswere struggling the same way he
was. And that's what the kidstell us when they read his story
as well, is I always thought Iwas alone. I always thought I

(18:34):
was, you know, one unique personthat there weren't other people
like me, and wow, there's otherpeople like me and even I think
what makes our peer mentoringprogram so unique that Jake
Sussman runs and overseas for usis that it's a freshman or first
year student with dyslexia fromour program being mentored by A

(18:59):
junior or senior also from ourprogram, who has dyslexia, and
we match them up with commoninterests, common hobbies, same
university and also, obviouslymajors, but it's they understand
each other because they've hadthe same challenges. Yeah.

Gosh, what a fantastic I hope folks are
listening and going, Gosh,that's a great idea. Scribble
this down. Let's see what we cando, because you're so right, and
that's been really a gamechanger, hasn't it? Barb, for a
lot of students,

it has been, yes. I mean, we've
gone, we would have a third ofour kids not reapply, and the
majority of those kids were notcontinuing in college, and we
are now at like 98% of thesekids that are in our mentoring
program are continuing throughAbsolutely

yeah and something we ought to be thinking about
applying even earlier in theireducational experience, right?

Yes.
Yes, which is something I guess,like eye to eye does as well,
right? I mean, it's more on theand it's no different than Big
Brothers, Big Sisters, right?
You know, these types ofprograms have been proven even
in careers, right? You get acareer coach. What is that
mentor? So it's Yeah, and it'ssomebody that you can identify

(20:22):
with and, you know? And ofcourse, it doesn't always work
out, because you're kind ofmatchmaking, but, but when it
does, it's really successful.

Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I take those odds any day.
So Barb, we were talking alittle bit about, and you've had
such great information forfolks, but what are some of the
key things you've learnedthrough this foundation and
helping students who really dowant to go on to college. What
are some key things that you'velearned that parents should be
thinking about earlier in orderto help their students? So I
know there's going to belisteners who are saying, well,

(20:52):
what can I do to help prepare mystudent? Because it sounds like
it's a pretty big leap to get mystudent ready to make that that
transition into college, or sayit's into a course to be able to
train for something else,because you also look at that
certifications for things, whatcan I do? And

I think you're absolutely right,
that's a really good point. Sowe've got a lot of kids that
actually say I want to start ata community college and then go
on to a four year college, andonce a student is accepted. It's
a really rigorous reviewprocess, as you now know, very
difficult. But once they areawarded a scholarship, we want

(21:30):
to keep them. We want to seethem be successful, whatever
that looks like, if it's a twoyear school, trade school, six
years for an engineering degree.
We had a boy graduate last yearwith dual degrees in engineering
from the University of Utah.
We've had HVAC trade. We've hadmechanics graduate, whatever

(21:54):
that success looks like. We wantto see them complete what so
when they apply, we want to helpthem to complete that process.
And what we've tried to do isreally stay in touch with them,
but I think also try to educate,but also provide resources for

(22:15):
parents, as you know, you'vebeen on those calls with us. You
know, it can be really daunting,and it's really get in front of
those schools early. You know,think about the schools you're
going to think about theirdisability offices, make
appointments, and again, try toset the students up for success.

(22:37):
Don't have them make sure theyget their accommodations. And
the key thing we've actuallyrealized, too is think about the
testing that they had in highschool, because that testing can
expire, and if it expires incollege, suddenly they're left
hanging without theiraccommodations. And we had one

(22:58):
such student who that happenedto, so who hopefully you'll have
an opportunity to speak to.
Because, again, it was eyeopening. You know, it's, it's,
you need to think almost a fewyears ahead, the things that,
again, you're going to need tobe successful, whatever that
looks like. Yeah, absolutely.
And

one of the things too, Barb is there, let's talk
about a little bit about thistoo, because it's come up quite
a bit with your students andwith parents. I think just about
every conversation I've beeninvolved with this at some point
comes up, and that is that whenstudents are in a public school
setting, it could be private.
They're doing the elementary,middle to high school. It
happens all across the board. Infact, I don't care what the

(23:38):
setting as you'll see, the samescenario, there are these really
great students like you sayequally, they have charming
personalities, many of them, orreally great things they're good
at. And so teachers oftentimessee that student and think, oh,
but they're such a greatstudent. I really like to see
them do well. And they startmaking accommodations for the
student that aren't formalizedin any way. And so that student

(23:59):
gets used to sort of, Oh, I knowthat teacher will be really
helpful, so I'll just kind oflean in here and get a little
help with this. But none of thisis formally documented on a 504
it's not recognized. The studentis probably not getting picked
up on an individualizededucation program, and so it's
not on an IEP of any kind. Andso in other words, it doesn't
exist, right? That that helpedthat student, and maybe all of

(24:22):
that sort of somebody helpinghere, being able to go in a
little few hours after and doand this sort of thing cobbled
together was enough for thatstudent to be able to do well
enough to say, Gosh, I'd reallylike to do college. And they're
bright enough, why not? Let's docollege. And then it's a real
rude awakening when they arriveat say, it's a community college
university, and they say, Okay,where are your documented

(24:43):
accommodations? And the studentlooks a little baffled. Well, my
teacher helped me. I have nodocumentation. That's not a good
feeling for a student or fortheir parents, right?

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli (24:56):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right, and
I think it's so key to get. Thatdiagnosis and to get the
documentation, andunfortunately, you do need the
neuropsych testing, and that'sanother thing that we've been
wanting to help students with.
We don't our scholarship can beused towards anything. Can be
used towards computers. It caneven be used for high school

(25:17):
students if they want to do, youknow, like an A CT prep course,
or if they need to get neuropsych testing and their testing
has expired, our scholarshipfunds can actually go towards
that. So again, it's, it'sreally anything that helps them
be successful. Andunfortunately, you do need, you
need that documentation. It goesa long way, because it creates

(25:39):
now that that trail of, youknow, legal documentation of
what you are required and shouldhave. Yeah,

absolutely. Barb, I want to reiterate that, because
you said something so importantthat I know, if I were a parent
and I heard that, I'd say, Wait,what did she just say? So you
said, and you talked about acouple of things, that the
scholarship, there's enoughleeway there that say I can't
afford the testing, becausemaybe, you know, it's tough,
it's tight, it's expensive, andmaybe I'm not insured to a

(26:18):
point, and they're not going topay for much of this, that I can
use some of that scholarshipmoney, that can be huge to
somebody. The other piece youmentioned high school, talk to
us a little bit about that. SoI'm a high school student, but
what year in high school, mayyou apply for the scholarship as
well?

So actually, a junior and a senior
year, you know, we haven'treally formally put that
requirement in but we've hadjuniors and seniors apply. It's
a little bit harder, because sooften at that point they're not
quite sure what their careerpath is, and they go, Wow, how
can I use the money? But yeah,they can even use it for, you

(26:56):
know, for high school tuition aswell. So often they think it's
for college tuition, but itdoesn't have to be. It could be
used. We've had students use itfor tutoring, for testing, for
computer for audio books, ayearly subscription. So yeah,
there's a lot of lead way. Gosh,that's fantastic.

So again, if I were a parent, I'd be going, Wait a
minute, what did I just hear?
This will all be in the shownotes too, to be able to go to
go to the link for thescholarship, because you're
receiving a lot of valuable,very helpful information that
will be available there. Theother thing so, Barb, you know,
you and I, like I said, we'vebeen on this journey for a long
time. I'm not going to say howmany years, but it's been a
while. And I want to kind ofgive folks a taste for this too.

(27:36):
And if I had video of it, I'dlove to be able to be able to
show it, because it's not untilyou go and you have an
opportunity to be there, thatit's that you really realize how
important this is. But everyyear, when you culminate the
success of the scholarship, youdo a party. It's really a party,
a celebration of your students.
And you've hosted this for manyyears now, I I put it on my

(27:58):
calendar to make sure I make it,because you wouldn't miss it.
Barb, tell us a little bit

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli (28:02):
about that, that party. So it started
out as we we didn't want tonecessarily have a fundraiser,
but we wanted to thank peoplefor donors, you know, for being
donors and for donating. We alsowanted to help educate the
community and the donors, andalso give an opportunity to

(28:25):
thank the students and recognizethem, right? And it has. It's
taken on a life of its own, andit's really cool, because all of
Joseph's friends now are like,yeah, they are all you know,
dispersed out of college, jobs,married, and, you know, they all
come back to Park City and stayat our house and help celebrate,

(28:48):
you know, his life. And, yeah,it is. It's a celebration. And I
think what's really cool too, isI've had speakers, as you know,
we've had Jonathan Mooney andothers speak. But I think what
people tell me is the mostpowerful speakers are the kids.
Is when the kids stand up onstage and say why this

(29:08):
scholarship is important tothem, that's what really moves
everyone. Oh, I

would totally agree. And Barb What's really
amazing about that experiencetoo is this is an opportunity
for a student who might not everget onto a stage. That's true.
To get onto a stage, right?
Yeah, and to speak to a crowd,and it's a loving crowd, that's
the thing. You're not going tohave a better, warmer reception
from a crowd. So it's a greatopportunity if you're nervous,
and that's not something youwould feel comfortable doing.
But I've seen students that youhave that are very hesitant,

(29:36):
like, geez, I don't know. Idon't know. And get up there and
take that mic, and it is such apowerful moment. You see them
kind of stand up a littletaller, right? And they are able
to tell their story just alittle bit. They share a little
snippet, and that warm receptionthat they receive, because
everybody there really wantsthem to succeed. And boy, is
that a powerful moment. I it'sunforgettable, really, yeah.

And in fact, the. Share. I was
talking to a friend of minewho's been there, who's a eighth
grade reading teacher, right? Soshe sees a lot of kids with
reading challenges, and is ahuge advocate for education
around dyslexia. And she said,Barb. She goes, I don't even
know if you need to have aformal speaker. She said, I

(30:20):
think if you can just get someof the kids to come, especially
now, the ones that are mentorsand or mentees and just Yeah,
talk to them about theirexperience with the program
overall. She said, It's verypowerful. It is.

It's absolutely fantastic. Barb, I cannot
believe that we have pretty muchhit our mark as our time
together that I'm taking today.
Like I said, there's so muchinformation, and we could, we
could talk for hours, and we do,oftentimes, we do end up talking
for hours. This has been sofantastic to just give folks a
little idea of the great workthat you're doing with this

(30:54):
scholarship foundation, a littlebit of its history, and to hear
you because you're reallyinspiring Barb, you're a force.
It makes

me, you know what, Donell, I can't
do it without friends and peopleand volunteers like you. I mean,
you've been, you've been my rockthrough so much of this. So
thank you. You

know Barb, and I do have to say you do attract some
of the best volunteers I've everworked with. Yeah, so it's true,
it's fantastic. So again, we'llprovide all that information,
because we provided a lot ofinformation in the show notes
with links for folks, andbesides everything else, Barb,
you do provide a lot of justgood general information, even
if 50 year doesn't get ascholarship, and

Barbara Wirostko (Morell (31:33):
that's actually so that's another key
thing, is we try. I mean,obviously we can't support
everyone, but we try toencourage students to not be
discouraged if they don't getan, you know, get an award to
reapply. We do try to help asmany kids as we can, but, yeah,
I mean, there's limits, there'slimits to resources, limits to

(31:56):
funding, but we do try to, eachyear, include more students, and
once they are in this processand amongst this family that
we've created, we are committedto helping them succeed. So
yeah, we keep trying to buildthat resource. So thank you.
Thank you for being part of it.
Donell, Oh, absolutely. I

love it, and I'm so thrilled to be a part of it.
What a great conversationopportunity for us to talk today
and to provide terrificresources for parents and
students. Thank you. Barb,

Reading Horizons (32:26):
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(32:48):
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(33:10):
collective da Readinghorizons.com,

Narrator (33:15):
Up next, Donell talks to Amy Mabile, a recipient of
the Morelli FoundationScholarship.

So Amy, this is so great that you're able to have a
conversation with me. I've had alot of conversations with
individuals who work aroundstudents in college who have a
learning difference, typicallydyslexia, and those have been
great conversations. But it'salso nice to hear from students,
the actual individual who'sgoing through college with the
learning difference, and Amy,can you just give us so first of

(33:43):
all, just state your name, fullname, and then where you're
going to school. And then let'sget into your learning
experience from when you wereyoung and when you realized it
was different.

Amy Mabile (33:54):
Gotcha. So my name is Amy Mabile. I go to the
University of SouthernMississippi, and to kind of just
get into my past about growingup with a learning difference is
I got diagnosed going into thefirst grade. I'm the youngest of
six siblings for including me,which have dyslexia, so my path
was kind of set up for more. Soknowing what I was, what my

(34:18):
family was, we're gettingourselves into but it wasn't
until I kind of got into collegeand high school that I much
truly had to pave my own way,because my siblings weren't
there with me anymore to pavethe way. So that's kind of the
original background

Amy, that's so interesting because, like you
say, it is fairly unusual forsomeone to have a diagnosis.
First of all, to get a diagnosisif they have dyslexia. Secondly,
to get it as early as you did,and to have other siblings that
kind of forged a path. Usually,I talk to people who the other
siblings didn't have a clueeither. So did this come from
your parents? Did one or both ofthem have challenges with

(34:55):
reading, and so they knew tolook out for it? How did that
happen? Okay,

Amy Mabile (34:59):
so it. Started with my oldest brother. So back in
when my parents were growing up,at least, dyslexia was not
talked about much at all. So theABA was passed in 1990 was
literally when my mothergraduated high school, so none
of that was ever talked aboutthen. So with starting with my
brother, it was kind of ADHD atfirst, and then got tested for

(35:24):
that, and then kind of went downthe same reaction of like, okay,
well, we still don't haveeverything quite figured out. So
we kept mom, kept digging anddigging and digging, and finally
got the diagnosis of dyslexia inour school district, they were
not very receptive to this. Veryfew school districts even give

(35:45):
you an IEP for dyslexia. It is,I believe, something like
reading disorder with aspecialty in it. They don't say
dyslexia. It's like a bad wordto most school districts. So
with that being said, when thesecond sister came along, kind
of the same thing, yeah, like,knew what to look for. Well, at

(36:07):
that point, when I came along,because I had another brother
from me, it was like, Okay, whatare the odds that she's not
because at this point we had allshown signs of struggling in
school. However, like me and mysister, we probably could have
gotten by without gettingtested, but we would have never
thrived. That's what people canunderstand, that there's a
difference in getting by andthriving in school.

Amy, I'm so glad you brought that up, because
that's very true that weoftentimes see folks with
dyslexia working really, reallyhard to stay up with peers and
doing extraordinary things tomake things happen for
themselves. And so we say, Oh,looks like they're doing okay to
me, but it's the effort thatthey're having to expand in
order to just get to that thatstarting line like everybody

(36:52):
else. So I'm glad you broughtthat up. And then Amy, tell me a
little bit about whatintervention looked like for you
when you were young. So gettinga diagnosis, did that
immediately turn into extra helpand support, or was that another
struggle?

Amy Mabile (37:04):
So I would say that that school districts in general
have come a very long way thenwhen I was in first grade quite
a few years ago. So interventionnow, it did not look like it did
then. Intervention back thenjust meant okay, you could have
your test read, okay, that'sgreat, but we're not really
fixing the problem. Back then,all they did was basically help

(37:27):
you get by more so help you getthe grades. But long term, you
didn't. There was no solution,because most schools don't bring
in dyslexia therapists,especially if your school
doesn't have the funding. Myschool did not have the funding
to bring in a dyslexiatherapist. Much alone, dyslexia
therapists were not really a bigthing back in 2011 2010 so yeah,

(37:51):
it was much so of a Okay. Well,great. I get my test read, and
that was my main accommodationwhen I first got tested. Oh,

Amy, I'm so glad you brought this up, too. Boy,
your story is going to resonatefor a lot of folks, because what
happens is, oftentimes you getthe diagnosis, and then it's
then, what now? What? How doesthis help me? And oftentimes it
doesn't lead to a solution tohelping the student catch up or
get the skills that they need orget the appropriate instruction.
It just simply means, oh, likeyou say, let's read a test out

(38:21):
loud. Let's give extended timefor things. And so it doesn't
really match, and we're reallydisappointed with that diagnosis
saying, Why didn't I get more?
Why didn't I understand more? SoI really appreciate you bringing
that up, too. It's veryimportant. And so, Amy, it
sounds like you had at leastsome folks in your household
that were helping to pave a wayfor you, helped you, help show
you the way. But was collegestill difficult when you made

(38:42):
that transition? Tell me aboutthat.

Amy Mabile (38:46):
Absolutely, college was quite difficult. However, I
how me and you met is the JosephJames Morelli Legacy Foundation.
We do have a mentorship program,which does always help, but you
have to realize you're going tohave difficulties. I feel like
no matter what kind of schoolyou come from, even I would say,
if you are a rock star advocate,you are being thrown into a

(39:07):
whole new ocean of new dish. AndI would be very shocked if you
had zero trouble at all. I hateto say that, but my first
semester, I had quite thedifficulty with my
accommodation. People weretaking off for spelling when
they shouldn't. I wasn't. It wasquite about to get my full line
time on test. Because howaccommodations work when you go

(39:28):
to college, when you go tocollege, you get accommodations
through the ABA before you onlygot them through, I believe the
idea act or 504. Plans, yes.
Okay, so that's how you got thembefore. So it's the laws are a
little different and howdocumentation is a little
different. So therefore, like,one of the big things we were
talking about is, you know,actually having a diagnosis for
dyslexia is very big when you goto college, because a lot of

(39:51):
colleges won't just take yourIEP from high school. That's a
really big deal. And it's a lawtrying to be Act passed. Cause
the rise act to where they wouldhave to take your IEP or 504
plan from high school, butthat's still in the works for a
lot of states. So that beingsaid, I actually look at my
accommodations through the ACTso in the ADA, a very not known,

(40:13):
I just call it a hack, is thatit says that you can get
accommodations via a nationalstandardized test that had
already been approved for my ACTaccommodations, which I could
then use in college.

Yeah, so Amy, it's obvious you become well versed
in being able to take care ofyourself and advocate for
yourself, but it didn't comeeasy, as you've already stated,
and that's a good point to make.
Don't get discouraged, becauseit can be very discouraging. You
made another really good point,and that is the advocacy and
also the mentorship. It's thepeers that can be very helpful
to you as well. And youmentioned the Joseph James

(40:55):
Morelli scholarship, and we havea conversation with Barbara, who
heads up that scholarship,amongst many other great people,
and it's a scholarship forstudents who are going to
college, who have dyslexia,learning difference, and they
all, like everybody else,deserve to have some recognition
and some financial support. Butin addition to that, some
mentorship other folks, and,more importantly, folks who have

(41:17):
dyslexia, you can help them kindof walk that pathway. You also
mentioned some other reallyimportant things, Amy, and that
is, some things weren't beinggiven to you in the beginning or
weren't being recognized. Howdid you go about having those
first hard conversations with aprofessor? Those can be
intimidating.

Amy Mabile (41:35):
Okay, so that's a very, very, very funny story.
Okay, so this professor inparticular, he ended up
retiring. I started out at acommunity college to start with.
I was not always at the collegeI'm at, so we ended up being
best friends. I wanted to startwith that we ended up being
like, we had a great professor,student learning relationship,
but it did not start that way.
So I went into his office and Ikindly asked him, I was like,

(41:58):
why are you taking off forspelling? That was the biggest
problem with him, because itwas, you know, it was a
chemistry class, so I justcouldn't understand why I was
being taken off spelling whenthat was one of my
accommodations. And he's like,Well, it says should be lenient
on spelling. Well, I had alreadyseen that wording about
accommodations during thesummer, and I had already raised
my concern about this wording inthe summer. And they're like,

(42:22):
it's fine, yes, yes. So flashforwarding to that. I'm like,
Okay, gotcha, but it's myaccommodation that this
shouldn't happen. He's like,Well, it's basically a spelling
test. I'm like, I can tell youeverything verbally, what these
things are. Every single one ofthem, I would have made it 100

(42:43):
on the test. Literally, it was alife safety test. So it wasn't.
It was our very first one kindof setting you up for the
semester. And had already hadother classes with lab safety,
so I had a background in it, butthat was the first conversation
with him. So I ended up havingto go back again, because I'm
like, Okay, I still don't havemy point. What's the deal? He's
like, Okay, I talked toDisability Services, and they

(43:05):
said, You know, I I have theright to do to take the points
off, because it is, I'm like,okay, cool. And I'm like,
freshman, freshman. Like, as,like, new to college as I can
get. I literally, I'm gonna go.
I left his office, like, nearlyfalling, like it was, like,
handing me a tissue. It was bad,because at this point, like,

(43:28):
this was probably one my it wasnot my lowest moment in college,
but it was definitely near aboutthere, because it's just like,
Okay, great. I'm in college. Iwant to be an optometrist. I
literally have eight plus yearsmore ahead of me, and I can't
even get the points forspelling. Where am I going to go
from here? I got lucky, and myprofessor, out of what was was

(43:50):
crying, no crying, your friend,your professor, I'm not saying
do that. This was an accident. Idon't like crying for the
people, but he ended up callingme, and he was like, I had the
points back and I talked toDisability Services. This won't
happen again. Yeah, yeah. So Iguess, yes, he did come through
very much. So because I was, Ihad literally went back to my
dorm and I started writing anemail when he was, I guess,

(44:12):
thinking I was writing an email.
So I'm just, like, runningaround, right? And I just
started from the beginning of mystory, like, and I had a lot of
layers to me. I'm also hearing aparent. I have ADHD, so I have
other things besides mydyslexia. So I mean, I just
start from the beginning andtell them everything. And this
is not a requirement thatanybody has to do. It's not
anything that anybody can makeyou do, especially if I'm just

(44:32):
like, I could not figure out howto make him understand, and that
was the best way. But he calledbefore that, but I still send
them the email, and I CC that toone of the vice presidents,

Amy, I am so glad you. You shared that story with
us, because, again, I think alot of folks are gonna, there's
a lot of pieces they're gonnatake away from that, and I
appreciate how you were able tobring the story back around for
you and for the professor, too.
Yeah. And also, if there arefolks listening, who are
professors in college, this is agood cautionary tale. Learn from
this story, because in the end,Amy, we want to give people

(45:08):
access. We want to see peoplesucceed, and I know that
teachers do too. Professors do.
You wouldn't be in that field ifyou didn't want to. And so it's
good to see this perspectivetake a step back and watch a
situation occurring, becauseit's sometimes easier to see.
Oh, where you might Oh, that'smy assumption. I could have done
this. So it's good to watch andlook at and learn from those

(45:29):
kinds of stories you said somereally interesting things, and
that is, be careful about thelanguage that's being used to
describe. And remember thingsare going through many hands,
right? So there's somebody'sinterpretation of this that gets
put onto this document, andkeeping a close eye on that.
That was really important thatyou brought up. I hadn't even
thought about that, and then howthat might be interpreted later
on down the road to somebodyelse who doesn't have a

(45:51):
background in understandingdisabilities, which a lot of
college professors don't,because it's not required. So
that was really goodinformation. And then I love the
way that you chose to handlethat. You're right. You didn't
choose to cry in front of theprofessor. You're not advocating
for doing that. But you alsoshowed your professor the human
side. And the professor, itlooks like really felt that was
touched by it, and went to backto re evaluate, to say, hey,

(46:12):
wait a minute. This is a studentwho's passionate, really cares,
wants to be successful. I'm soglad he came back around,
reevaluated the situation. Boy.
Amy, there were a lot of layersto that. And I applaud you too,
for like you say, your careerhas a lot of schooling in front
of it. And so you are in thisfor the marathon. You're not in
this for a 5k you know, you'rein this for the long haul. And

(46:35):
you've got that perspective,which is so important. So Amy,
I'm going to ask you, because Iknow you're a fantastic
advocate, but you're also afantastic mentor in the mentor
program with the scholarship,tell me a little bit about what
it means to be a mentor to otherstudents, and how much it meant
to you to have a mentor.

Amy Mabile (46:55):
So what it meant to me to have a mentor, that's
where I want to start, is it wasa game changers. So I ended up
having, at one point two people,and this was a special
circumstance, but one of themunderstood my ADHD mind, and
then the other one understood mydyslexic stem like want the good

(47:15):
grades for the long run side.
This was very crucial to me,because, as I said, I have a lot
of layers to me, a lot, and Imean, like everyone does, but
this was very crucial for me,for someone to understand. So
with you said, with me being amentor, I love mentoring. I love
giving back to people, becauseyou have to understand. I knew

(47:36):
what it was like to leave thatdude's office crying. So one of
my biggest thing with my menteeis, like, they'll tell me
something. I'm like, we can goon the phone together. I have no
shame. I'm in another state. Ihave no shame at all. So I
haven't had to do with this foranyone yet, but I always do

(47:56):
offer because we have to realizein these situations, the part
the mentor, I like to call them,I'm an awkward absorbance
button. So what this means is,basically, you are absorbing any
of the awkwardness in theconversation as a mentor, that
is part of your job. So say, ifmy mentor would have gone with
me in that situation, would likeput them on speaker and be like,

(48:18):
hey, it would have explained toyou, ARMA, how can we help fix
this situation? So like, if Idid this, it would just be a
person removed from it, and itwould have been a little bit
more of a calmer atmosphere.
It's literally just somebody,and I don't know a teacher,
honestly, that if somebody didthis, they would judge you for
it. I just really don't, becausethis is somebody that cares

(48:38):
about you. They're trying tohelp you on the front line, and
they're trying to help younavigate all these things, as
long as you explain and you justdon't put push on speaker and
somebody just starts talking. Sothat's very much so with our
mentoring program, one thingthat we kind of harp on is being
proactive and being due in themoment. So yeah,

oh, am you again?
You've said some reallyimportant things. I really hope
people are listening and takingnotes, or at least replay this
and come back if you want to.
But that's really important tofeel like you're not alone, and
like you said, you haven't hadto step in yet to be that voice
for somebody, but just knowingthat they have you, there is a
lot for somebody that is soimportant to know that if I need

(49:20):
it, I know I have this personwho said they'll go to bat for
me. And then also, you'vementioned just having somebody
who knows what it feels like tobe in those shoes, has some
semblance of understanding aboutI know what it's like to be
there. That's huge for somebodytoo. That kind of understanding
and empathy. And Amy, you'vementioned a couple of times
before about having layers, andI think this is really

(49:41):
important. None of us are justone thing. All of us are unique.
I mean, that's what makes uspretty great, but it also can
make it challenging, because youfeel like, because I'm unique,
maybe somebody won't understand,but you've made that very clear,
that even though you feel like,yeah, I have layers. I'm pretty
unique. There are aspects of youand. YOUR Story and what you do

(50:01):
that other people can relate to,that I think, is so important.
And tell me a little bit abouthow you do that. When you're
doing you're working as amentor. How do you how do you
relate to people, or help themfeel like they're being related
to how does that work?

Amy Mabile (50:15):
So with our mentees, you always, normally have at
least one common denominator,whether that's amazing major or
an outlet, you at least haveone, most of the time, more than
one, but so at one point, I hada radiology major. I'm obviously
not radiology, but we had otherthings in common. But one of the

(50:36):
biggest things about people withlayers is listening. When I
first became a mentor, I wasfreaked out. I was so worried
about doing it wrong, becauseI'm such an empathetic person. I
was so worried about doing itwrong or saying the wrong thing,
or just not being able to bethere for that person. But I was
very great friends with thefaculty and the counseling

(50:56):
department at my communitycollege, and one of them told me
they said, Amy, all you have todo is listen at the time, like
I'm like, I took in theinformation, but like, I really
took in the information as Iwent from there. Because all you
have to do is listen. You don'thave to answer yes, yes, yes,

(51:16):
yes, or always have to have theanswer. Just listen to them.
Listen to what they'repassionate about, let them talk
so much in mentoring is justletting people talk, if they
will, and if they won't pushthem ask questions, you have to
be able to listen to the fewthings that they say, to be able
to hear the things that theydon't, to know what to ask.
That's, I would say that that'sthe biggest part of it.

Wow. Okay, you've given us some real pearls of
wisdom. I love that youmentioned having something in
common, and so even if that'syou know, similar feel doesn't
have to be exact same field, buthaving those commonalities, so
you've got some common ground. Ilove that. And then that
listening, you're right. Boy areyou right. And just being
willing, like you said, to waitin that space for as long as it

(52:00):
might take them, maybe throw outa few questions, like you said,
to get them to talk. Boy, thoseare some really good things to
take forward. And so Amy, we'vehad such a great conversation. I
could talk to you all day, butyou are a busy woman. I respect
that. But is there anything thatyou'd like to leave with folks
that maybe we haven't covered,that you would find important,
particularly around college,that maybe we haven't been able

(52:22):
to share.

Amy Mabile (52:24):
I would say, going in to your freshman year,
Junior, sophomore, senior,whatever year it is, if you
haven't found a group of peopleor a mentor, try to find one
that they don't have to havedyslexia. It would be great if
they did, because theyunderstand you, but again, as
long as they're willing tolisten to you. My back, that

(52:44):
chemistry teacher did become amentor. We ended up he
understood that I was very muchin the moment with studying. I
would go into his office and askhim to explain things. He would
explain it. I'll work on thenext problem in his office. That
was a very nice thing that hewas willing to do for me. I
mean, it meant a lot to me whentest time came, it drastically

(53:04):
improved me. So I would justsay, try to find those people
for yourself, because those aregoing to be the ones that will
write your recommendationletters, that are willing to bat
for you. Those are your peoplethat are going to stand on the
front line with you, no matterif that is a friend, a teacher,
someone in your class, no matterif that's your professor or a
vice president of a college, younever know that. That's one of

(53:27):
my best advice, I would say, andnever give up

those. Some fantastic advice. And you know
what? I love you bringing up theprofessor again, because am you
really turned that around, andit took both of you. So I'm
acknowledging that he also did agreat job of humbling and coming
around as well, not just you,but both of you in that
situation, because that couldhave turned out quite
differently, but instead, what apositive experience it has been,
I'm sure, for you and for himand for future students that he

(53:53):
has as well at the collegelevel, that's a great I love
that story. It's fantastic. Amy,you have been a fantastic guest.
Thank you so much. We reallyappreciate you taking a little
bit of time out of your busy outof your busy schedule to speak
with us and to share some ofthese tips and ideas for folks
who are going through collegewith dyslexia. Thank you.

Amy Mabile (54:10):
Thank you guys for having me.

Narrator (54:12):
Lastly, Donell talks to Jake Sussman, a mentor for
the Morelli scholarship program.

We've had a lot of great conversations about this
space of living with dyslexia,and not just in the school. We
talk a lot about public school,and that's been the focus of
these series of podcasts. Andthis is an opportunity, really,
to have a great conversationwith someone who, and I'm just
going to say it and start thewhole conversation this way.
This is Jake Sussman that I'mtalking with today. And Jake,

(54:39):
for those who haven't seen you,and I want folks to Google,
because you have some greatstuff online. Great stuff online
too. I hope they do that, do alittle search and see what
you've been up to, but you puttogether, and it's been a while
ago now, but it was a video, andI think that was my first
exposure to Jake, and it was avideo that you put together, and
it was a video of poetry, andit's, it's a poem, and it's so

(54:59):
moving. Is it moving? And Jake,it sat with me, I have to tell
you, because I was at a littleevent that I was invited to, and
I had kind of gotten a littlepreview of what I was going to
see, so I had an idea of it. Butwhen I was in that space with a
lot of like minded people, andthe lights go out, and we were
able to watch this presentation,I tell you, you could have heard
a pin drop. It was silent, andthen it just really hung with

(55:21):
me. And then days later, I foundmyself wanting to have my my son
who has dyslexia. I kept urginghim, you've got to watch this
video. You've got to see it. Itjust it really, it really stuck
with me. You were able toencapsulate so much of what it's
like to have dyslexia, thechallenges, the struggles, but
yeah, also the the sheer powerof will to get a lot of things

(55:42):
done, that comes through. And sotoday's conversation, I'm hoping
to touch on a lot of thosethings too. But as we take this
journey with you, Jake and learna little bit about you, where
you're from, and the amazingthings that you're doing, I hope
there's something that thateverybody can kind of grab on
to, and there's a littlesomething for them to take away
with them, because I know thatyou've stuck with me for a long
time, which I think is great. SoJake, I'm going to start there.

(56:05):
I'm going to have you talk aboutso I came into knowing who you
are at the point where thevideo, where you've made this
video, but you had a lot ofexperiences up to the point of
making that video. Let's kind ofgive our listeners a little
idea. Jake, what was life likefor you having dyslexia, and
when did you find out you haddyslexia? Well,

Jake Sussman (56:23):
you know, it's one of those things where these
stories are first of all, thankyou so much for inviting me on
number one. And you know, it'sabout these stories are better
told felt than reallyexplaining. That was the power
of the Forgotten child poem,which captivated not just my own
story, but the story of so manyothers. Okay, and I feel like,

(56:47):
if that's okay, I would like toshare it, because I think I can
talk about my story. But themost important thing too is that
everyone can see themselves innot just mine, but their own
stories as well. Is that okaythat we kick us off with with
the Forgotten child poem? Iwould love it. Okay, great. All

(57:09):
right, so for all of you, thisis a poem that I wrote when I
was in college, and it was in atime of my life where I was
confident and ready to expressmyself, because it was a time
that I wasn't actually supposedto be in college, because I was
told I would never go to Collegegrowing up. So the feelings that

(57:30):
you feel is the feelings ofsomeone who is necesitri who
they are. I kindly ask you toplease shut your eyes so you can
fully understand the story thathas left me so traumatized.
Imagine yourself as the childthat always smiled. You were
wild and beguiled until the dayyou were profiled. This is the

(57:51):
story of the Forgotten child.
Now what I am about to tell youwill truly make your stomach
turn. They said, I have majorconcern, Mr. And Mrs. But your
child simply can't learn. Thechild was labeled disabled. He
was told face to face that heshould stop his chase to a
higher educational place becausehe couldn't read any book in the

(58:12):
bookcase. This is an absolutedisgrace. Those words should
never come out of anyone with aknowledge base. From that point
on, he was taken out of theclassroom all day long, from
home room to three hours pasteating the lunchroom, he became
paranoid, full anxiety and fearbecause he was told he was

(58:33):
impaired. It felt like nobodycared. He was misunderstood as a
result of educators thinking shewas no good. He just needed
someone to think that he couldyou see, negative labels are
destructive, counterproductiveand obstructive. Now I ask you
to please open your eyes to somesurprise, that forgotten child

(58:54):
is standing before all of youguys. He defied the lies of this
public educational enterprise.
You see what they didn't knowwith that this forgotten child
had an epic thirst forknowledge. He refused to
acknowledge you will never go tocollege. He took those words and

(59:15):
turned them from frustrationinto motivation. He was lacking
that academic foundation, so hisparents pulled him out of this
cultivation they called publiceducation. Let me bring
something to rouse. Just imagineyour academic journey. That the
construction of a house withoutthe proper support, that house

(59:36):
will fall short. He was finallyput in a place where his mind
was no longer a disgrace. It wasa place that built his academic
base as strong as an iron case.
They saw Him for everything hegot this. A new school of
thought. It is something thatthe public educational system
simply did not and it was thefirst time that the Forgotten

(59:57):
child actually smiled since theday he was profiled. Now let me
mention one of the most notableindividuals in all of mankind
with a mind that was alsodefined like mine. Let's take
someone like Albert Einstein, aman of credibility that had a
learning disability. He waslacking much value, really,

(01:00:18):
despite educators muchliquidity. But that didn't stop
Al's life journey to discoveringthe theory of relativity. So
take a minute while I spit somepoetry. What's the difference
between you and every personthat I can't see? Truth is
there's nothing, because eachand every one of us have our own

(01:00:38):
unique ability. Einstein said itperfectly that everybody is a
genius, but if we judge a fishby its ability to climb a tree,
it will live its whole lifethinking that it is stupid,
don't you see? Wise man oncetold me the power comes from the
young people knowing that theycan change the world. Don't ever

(01:00:59):
give up your shot. Your mind isall you've got. It's time we
change this public educationalmelting pot, turning our minds
into a robot. You get my gist,in this world craving to
coexist, it's time that we workwith the kids that are missed,
with those who fit themainstream schools perfectly,

(01:01:20):
and then those who learndifferently. Together, I insist.

Donell Pons (01:01:28):
Oh, Jake, I just want to take a minute. Gosh,
it's so powerful. Every time. Ieven looked at it last night
again and grabbed some lines outof it. It's so powerful. And I
hope folks will also not just relisten to this, but also go and
see the video that goes withthis poem that you've put
together. But Jake, you take usthrough the whole journey.

Jake Sussman (01:01:49):
Yes, all absolutely. And I'll tell you
that while I come to the tablewith solutions, you see, this
poem is not just to point afinger at public schools, and
we're not saying that everyteacher is bad. Every school is
bad. What you're hearing andwhat you're feeling, no matter
if you were triggered by thewords or not, it's the feeling

(01:02:10):
of feeling misunderstood bysomeone in that classroom who's
not being reached. And that wasme, and that is so many kids
around the world. But to behonest, everyone has a forgotten
child in them. Everyone, yeah,

yeah. I think that's so interesting. You
tapping into this, this, thisthing that we can all relate to,
right? That's helpful, right? Totap into that. And then Jake,
that's so interesting thatsomebody told you you weren't
college material, because youare far from not college
material. Tell me about thatmoment, because it's pivotal for
you right when, when somebodymakes a statement about you, put

(01:02:45):
you in a certain position. Talkabout

I'll tell you that, um, it happened in sixth
grade. Wow. I want to paint thescene for a minute. Okay,
imagine your little you sixthgrade self, you were four grade
levels behind in reading. Youwere forced to read out loud in
class. I remember the anxiety,the sweat that would build up

(01:03:11):
when it was going around theclass. They would they would do
the activity where they readeach line and then go to the
next person. I would be sweatingbecause I couldn't do it. And
then when it came time to myturn, I would start reading, and
then I would stop and startstuttering, and I would hear
kids laughing, and it was anightmare, right? So how do you
expect someone to be open tolearning anything when their

(01:03:33):
relationship with learning ispain? You can right? My parents,
I had the opportunity of gettingpulled out of school. I was put
in a school that specialized inlearning differences. Okay, I
actually was in a school formiddle school, for seventh and
eighth grade, and then for highschool, I ended up going to a

(01:03:53):
boarding school for studentswith high functioning learning
disabilities. And I'm sayingthis for a reason, and to make
this relatable also to thosefamilies who may not be able to
have the means to go to theseschools, because I want to be
cognizant of these families aswell. You know, I I didn't
understand grades, the meaningof an A until junior year of

(01:04:18):
high school. Okay? I becameobsessed with learning how to
learn and how I learned, becauseI was always remember that I'm
smart, like, there's things thatI'm good at that I'm not good
at, the school thing. But forme, we're talking about model
trains, right? I love modeltrains. Trains, for me is like

(01:04:41):
it is my it's my Zen, right? Andwhen, during the lowest points
in my life, I had this modeltrain set in my basement, and
this was in middle school, andit was the only place in the
world where I felt safe, I couldbuild whatever I want. Road, I
was in full control. I It reallywas a museum quality model

(01:05:04):
railroad. I mean, like, it'shuge, and it was an exact
expression of my imagination. Soin that I had, I knew that I was
smart and I was good at certainthings, but in school, I wasn't
really, but I had this yearningto want to understand. So that's
really what led me to be open,to want to learn again, and to

(01:05:25):
develop that confidence, whichstarted social confidence first,
which then gave me the space foracademic confidence. It couldn't
go the other way around, right?
I had to feel good with myselfand my peers first, so that I
will be open to receiving theinformation from a teacher or
asking for help. My pivotalmoment? Well, the pivotal social

(01:05:46):
moment happened in middleschool, where the first time in
my life I was speaking, we weregoing around a similar circle,
and instead of reading, we weresharing what we did the previous
summer, and I, at the time,developed a stutter because I
was always corrected, and Iwould always just stop in the

(01:06:06):
middle of what I was saying. Andit was really scary again. Here
comes the sweat, and I'mshivering and going around. I
made it, by the way, a newschool. Now no one knows me.
Here's my time to shine, and Iam freaking out. Then it comes
time for me to share. I'm Jake.
I went to Disney, and I'mstarting to stutter again in

(01:06:29):
this girl next to me filled inmy sentence. She said, Disney
World, and for the first time inmy life, I realized that someone
helped me. They weren't justlaughing. They actually
understood me, because they havewhat I have, right? They have a
learning difference. Becausethis was a school that

(01:06:51):
specialized in kids withlearning differences, and that
was the first time when Irealized that there's other kids
like me. That was step one forsocial confidence, but it took
me till June, a year of highschool, to really embrace my
academic confidence. And thatpoint in time, it was at a Model

(01:07:11):
UN for those of you who don'tknow, it's like a mock United
Nations of where kids from allover the world, high schoolers
come to one place. In thisplace, it was Yale University,
and here I was, six years intospecialized school, not
interacting with, quote,unquote, normal kids, going to
Yale University, interactingwith normal kids. So now the

(01:07:31):
anxiety is coming back up, youknow. And something remarkable
happened is that in thiscommittee that I was on my
country that I represented,because that's how Model UN
works. I had the key to theproblem that everyone was
solving. And I'm like, wait aminute, this is my time to
shine. I actually my country isthe model country that we're all

(01:07:56):
trying to figure out. So here Iam putting together a
presentation at Yale University,I get this bug. It's like the
Yale bug, right? And I made thispresentation in front of 150
normal kids, and it worked. Andfrom that point on, I realized
that, wait a minute, everyonearound me is actually no smarter

(01:08:16):
than me. I can do this. And fromthere, that was really where I
ran. That's

so interesting.
Jake, thank you for sharing someof this history, because I know
people will find it veryhelpful. There's some
interesting key points that youwere I was picking up on. It's
as you were talking, and that isrealizing that people around
you, for maybe the first time,that were helpful, they wanted
to help you. That that's aninteresting key point is that
there were some folks around youthat it actually felt like they
care and maybe they want to liftinstead of bring me down. That

(01:08:43):
was really interesting, I think.
And another key point was anopportunity you had in order to
shine, to show this is what Jakecan do, outside of these other
settings where maybe people aresaying, Jake, you can't do this,
Jake, you can't do that. Andthen you have an opportunity to
say, hey, look, but this is whatI can do, and you need those
opportunities, right?

Well, I'll tell you that I'm talking in big
nuts, because there's a lot goesin between. You know, I'm
saying, like, I mean, there'scamp, there's like, being the
least, like kid at camp inelementary school to then being
an elected leader by the time Iwas in eighth grade, like I had
this hunger to want to beaccepted, right? To want people

(01:09:24):
to like me, because having ADHD,I struggled reading social cues,
so it was really hard for megrowing up, so I just wanted to
always improve, right, always.
So again, a lot of things led tothese, this confidence, because
it didn't come from nowhere.
Yeah, yeah, that's

so interesting. I'm glad you did say that, Jake,
that it takes more than just anexperience. And I also
appreciate you mentioning ADHD,because we oftentimes, when we
talk about dyslexia or theDyslexic profile, we think of it
as just one thing, but there's awhole spectrum of neuro atypical
that comes. Come with havingdyslexia, right? So ADHD is one
of those that commonly occurswith dyslexia. We don't
oftentimes talk about that. Thechallenge that it's not just one

(01:10:08):
thing, it can be a lot ofdifferent things that you that
you're working with.

And I think, too, that's very interesting, because
with what I do with supermentors, and again, we'll,
obviously, we'll talk about thisshortly, but you're right that
oftentimes we look at justDyslexia as this one thing, but
in reality, I mean, there are somany minor cases it's like,

(01:10:32):
okay, like the amount of kidsthat I speak to that say I can't
read because of my dyslexia,right? And they literally
believe that they can't read.
The amount of kids that I speakto with ADHD that say I can't
focus because of my ADHD, andtherefore they literally have
embraced this idea where theycan't focus, right? So we almost
assume these and not, and weforget that there's a lot of
other things that come into playbeyond just having the label,

(01:10:56):
yeah, yeah. And that's somethingthat we're going to talk about
it's really big. Yeah,

okay, so Jake, let's take so, let's pick up the
thread and get on that journeyso we can bring folks along. You
do obviously, you're able tohave some experiences. You get
enough education behind you tofeel confident enough to attend
college and then tell us aboutcollege, because a lot of folks
have this sense, hey, if youmake it to college then, oh,
you're there. It's golden.
They're on. You're good,

not true. It's, it's actually far from the
truth. You know, it's, it's aproblem, like we think, and
unfortunately, a lot of privatespecialized schools, they would
pride themselves on 100% collegeacceptance when it's one thing

(01:11:45):
to get in, but it's a wholeother thing to stay in. Okay?
And this is something that Italk a lot about, which is, hey,
40% of US college freshmen dropout of school. 30% of them are
freshmen. And on top of allthat, according to a recent
study from the National Centerfor Learning Disabilities, young

(01:12:07):
adults with learningdisabilities that enroll in four
year colleges at half the rateof the general population. Which
brings it to that theircompletion rate for any type of
college is 41% compared to 52%of all young adults. So what
that means is, why are wedropping out? What are we not

(01:12:28):
being taught in school? And thatthis is coming into my story.
The college that I went to wasRoger Williams University. Okay,
this is the first time, and theonly school that I applied to
that did not have an academicsupport program, right? There's
the, there's a service of wherethey what they legally have to

(01:12:50):
give you under this, the ADA,right? And then there's actual,
there's, like, the salt programat University of Arizona, right?
At Arizona, yeah, right. Andthere's other programs that are
much more. It's like you, it'sit's like you have to apply to
get into it's like a wholething, okay? But I said to
myself, I have to learn how tocoexist with neurotypical

(01:13:13):
people. If I want to besuccessful, I can't just be in
my bubble of where it's safe. Ihave to go out there and
interact and learn how to figurethis thing out. So I go to Roger
Williams University, and I camein on survival mode. I mean,
within the first week, I had ameeting with the President
University, because I'm like,Well, if anything hits the fan,

(01:13:36):
the President University, if helikes me, he's got my back. So,
so, but, but like, so that'swhat I did. So I ended up
meeting with every professorbefore every class. I gave them
the spiel of Jake and we had aplan. And unfortunately, my
peers that I graduated this highschool from were dropping out.

(01:13:58):
And I was like, How come I'm notdropping out? And that is what
led for the inspiration of thispoem come junior year. But it
was not an easy road in college.
I mean, it was a big wake upcall. Yeah, Jake,

you've talked about how long it took you to finish
college. Can you share that?
Because a lot of folks have thisperception that you finish it in
so much time you're done. Talk alittle bit about that,

yeah, of course.
So to be honest, it took meabout, actually, it took me four
and a half semesters, although Iwas on a pace of finishing in
five years. Okay, I'm sorry, notfour and a half semesters. It
was a total of four years. But Isaid to myself. And my parents
gave me this advice to and Ialso, you know, had some mentors

(01:14:42):
in college that said, Why rush?
You know, wouldn't you rather doquality over quantity? Why are
you trying to Jan in fiveclasses, especially having ADHD
of where you don't really they?
July's time. Well, in collegetime, you have to interact with
the syllabus. So it's like thiswhole thing where, let's just

(01:15:05):
ease our way in. Don't have torush it, it get involved in
other things. You don't need toonly be a full time student,
like join a club, start a club,and that's what I ended up
doing. I started two clubs at myschool because I had this time
available because I wasn'ttaking an extra class. So that
was something that was reallyhelpful for my balance in

(01:15:29):
college. And then Jake,

we're getting to the part that folks are going to
really appreciate, and that ishaving gone through this college
experience, and you've sharedsome of the things that are
going to formulate what you dolater to help other students.
How soon after you have yourcollege experience do you start
putting together this group thatwould become a real support
network for students in college?

So it didn't happen until I graduated for
multiple reasons in college, myfocus was to prepare. It's the
two Ps. Either go to school, theparty or prepare, right? What's
your priority? Okay, so I wantedto go into prepare and going

(01:16:16):
into school. I realized I gotinto the school of business,
because I want to be abusinessman. I love business. I
love entrepreneurship, but Iterrible at math, terrible at
math. I mean, it's so bad, okay,so I can't be the business
school because I have to dofinance and econ and all these
accounting and all those otherclasses. So what I realized,

(01:16:38):
though, was my strength is incommunication. So I changed my
school, and I ended up going tothe school of communication,
which was a absolute gamechanger. And I always tell
families in the students that wework with is that if you don't
know what you want to do, gointo communication, because at
least you'll know how tocommunicate. It's something that
you can take away for yourselfin you you could be in any

(01:17:02):
field. You got to know how tocommunicate. So you'll learn
that there. So that's where Ialways start with communication,
and that's what I ended updoing. It really was huge for
me. And I worked my way throughcollege. I ended up transferring

(01:17:22):
colleges my junior year intoUniversity of Hartford to
graduate for my final senioryear, and about a year later is
when I ended up the my poemended up getting picked up and
we published it on social media.

Okay, awesome. And then you start your own group.

What does that yes, so superpower mentors
started after the Forgottenchild. Video was picked up by an
Emmy Award winning filmmaker,Harvey Hubble, and after it was
launched in October 2019 I wasgetting invited to speak all
over the country on behalf ofthe Forgotten child. And I was
speaking all over the place, andI was in Utah, actually, that's

(01:18:07):
where I met Barbara Morelli,which is of the Morelli
Foundation. And there was a lotof parents coming up to me,
asking if I work with kids. Andthis is really interesting,
because, well, I'm not an edge Idon't have a background in
education. That's not my thing,right? I'm not a teacher, I'm
not a therapist. So where is thecredibility? What do I have to

(01:18:30):
bring to the table? What can Ido? Well, I've been there. I can
speak a language that mostprofessionals may not be able to
simply for the fact that I havelived it, breathed, it, walked,
it. And now the one thing thatwe're not taught, which is
communication skills. That'swhat we're doing. So through the
vessel of mentorship, is wherethis the idea of mentoring for

(01:18:55):
these kids with learningdifferences came into then when
COVID hit, was when it exploded,because everyone was home, the
wait list, getting to atherapist was so far back and a
mentor has been this provenalternative to mental health,
because we're not coming in hereto fix a problem. Kids with

(01:19:16):
dyslexia and ADHD do not need tobe fixed. They just need someone
that will understand them andspeak their language. Okay? So
that's where we come in, andit's not just my story. We have
so many other mentors that workfor us from all over the world,
because they have their ownstories, and most guaranteed if

(01:19:37):
you've gone through adversity,someone is going through it
right now? Yeah, so all we'redoing is we're taking that kid
who's trying afraid to walk intothat classroom, and we'll match
him or her to the older versionof themselves based on
interests, based on passions andalso challenges. And it's

(01:19:58):
incredible. You. Yeah,

the feedback, Jake, the feedback I have heard from
those who participate, eitherreceiving mentorship or being a
mentor, is phenomenal. It'spowerful,

yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, it's something that, youknow, it's not just for the
kids, but the mentor. I mean, Ihealed my childhood because it
was so painful. Okay? I healedmy childhood through working
with these kids, because I'mworking with sixth grade Jake
every day, so I had anopportunity to go back in time
and that for college transitionfolks, okay, to have someone

(01:20:33):
that has been in that freshmanyear, that first semester, to
help them transition into thatnew environment, because
transitions are challenging forpeople with learning
differences. Right to help themtransition is a game changer for
these kids. Yeah,

Jake, you've mentioned so many important
things, and one of those, I justlove you telling your own
personal story about yourapproach to college, because we
don't give ourselves enoughspace to say, hey, everybody
else may be doing it this way.
This may be an expectation, butit's okay to do it the way I
need to do it. That's a hugemessage right there. Do it the
way you need to do it. That'sreally powerful, and that would

(01:21:14):
help so much just in thebeginning, right?

Absolutely. And I'll say to people like it's
interesting, because when youlook at school, and this may be
a little complicated, and I wantto try and do my best to explain
this, because it's somethingthat and I would love your
thoughts on this as well, but wehave a really interesting
observation that we're seeingright now, is that, why does
someone with a learningdifference struggle in college?

(01:21:40):
Let's just put it right there,because they've gone through
middle school and high school,they've gotten the support
they've needed. Why all thesudden we're reinventing the
wheel in college? What happened,and I think something that we've
missed, is these kidsrelationship with time. Okay, so
when you're in high school or inmiddle school, you show up at an
ungodly hour, and you sit atyour desk and you're there all

(01:22:03):
day. Okay? High School, yourotate classes. You may have two
free periods, and it's up to youto choose what you want to do
during those times, but youreally are there when it comes
time for college, you have toseek it out. Right? The
syllabus, by the way, which isa, it's a, it's a, it'll tell
you exactly what's happeningthat semester in the class. If

(01:22:24):
you don't know how to read asyllabus, you are going to go
show up and you're going to bethings. Randomness will come,
but it is not random becauseit's already there. We just have
to be taught how to go throughthe syllabus in pre play on our
calendars, and then we could beahead of the game. I think a lot
of kids with learningdifferences struggle when they

(01:22:46):
have that reality check, like, afew weeks in and they're all of
a sudden to be hired, and theyshut down because they they're
like, I guess it's too much forme to handle.

Yeah, yeah. You know, Jake, you put up some
interesting points. And I thinkthey're things we don't take
advantage of enough today thatare available to us, and one of
those is this choice thing,because not only do we have
choice about whether I have todrive and show up to a campus or
I could even do maybe online,and I could choose to try both
and see which one works best forme, maybe I'm not great with in
person experiences, so maybeI'll try some more online

(01:23:16):
classes. So these areconversations that we ought to
be encouraging young people tohave prior to even thinking
about getting into thoseclasses. The other thing is,
maybe I'm not an early morningperson, so then don't take an
early morning class. You don'thave to look and take a
different class. The other piecelike that, you're you're
mentioning too, that I think isreally important is so take a
look at what the course contentis that's all online. It's not a

(01:23:37):
secret. Take a look through it.
You have the right to look forwhat's there for the course, and
if that looks like something youwouldn't be interested in, or
you see some things you shouldbe saying, well, maybe that's
not a good fit for me. I'llchoose something else. This idea
of having choice and not havingto do something right? I don't
think we exercise that enough.
Do you right?

And having choice is something that we're not used
to. Yeah, we're not used tochoice, and something that COVID
has taught us, if we look hardenough, is that, how do we
navigate unpredictability? Okay,in choice, when you have choice
leads to unpredictability, andit makes us uncomfortable,

(01:24:17):
right? So something when we'rein the state of asking when we
have options, we alwaysrecommend ask, why and where is
this coming from? Why do I Whyam I not a morning person? Do I
want to be a morning person?
Because I think what it could beif they change the circadian
rhythm, which is a whole anotherconversation, but like, right,
right? But like asking why isreally important, because we

(01:24:40):
have to decipher, is this anemotional decision or logical
decision, right? Am I not? Do Inot want to do this or
participate in this because it'sbecause I'm uncomfortable by it,
which, by the way, it may not besuch a bad thing. Or am I? Is it
actually not a good fit for me?
And these are. Conversations tohave that we always recommend

(01:25:02):
ask someone. It's always good toget feedback, right? We can't
Captain a ship on our own. Wegotta need our crew. Patrick, I

love this. I love this so much. And thinking that
you're promoting theseconversations peer to peer for
folks to have at this age. Gosh,it's all so great. I wish I'd
have had something like thiswhen I was younger, right? Me

too. Me too.
Honestly, that's right, yeah.

Oh, Jake, you got me thinking about so many
things. And then anotherimportant piece that you brought
up is this piece about where youchoose to attend, so where you
choose to go to take yourclasses, to begin your
educational experience, can bereally important as well, right,
Jake, because some of theseinstitutions and places that you
may attend are say, let's say,more open, maybe better prepared

(01:25:48):
to provide the kinds of supportsthat students may need who learn
differently, right?

Absolutely, and I want to just add to this,
because it's really good topractice. I mean, college is
like the training grounds oflife. It really is. You know
what I'm saying? I mean, highschool, middle school, teaches
you how to learn, but college,you're, you're kind of figuring
this thing out with a little bitof a safety net. Okay? The thing

(01:26:14):
is, when it comes to navigating,do I want to go to a big school,
small school, in person,virtual, we have to ask, how do
I learn and what do I have? Do Icrave stimulation? Do I need to
be peace? I walk a mile in mylittle office? You know? I need
to move. So if I'm going to besitting down in one place all

(01:26:37):
day virtually, that's not goingto stimulate my mind enough
versus walking back and forthfor classroom. So we have to
really ask ourselves thesethings. And I would say, no
matter where we choose to go, Ithink something that a lot of
kids, unfortunately, this ideaof teacher's pet has gotten in

(01:26:58):
our heads for those social justconversations like you don't
talk to the teacher. Don't betheir friend or not your friend.
Keep the boundary if you want tosurvive college in life, the
most important thing is knowinghow to talk to authority. Okay,
so like I told you about thecrew, you would have to sail a

(01:27:18):
ship with a crew. So if ourmission when we go to a new
place, college or the workplace,right, is we have to create our
crew, find them. So you haveyour professors, maybe it's the
accessibility office, maybe it'sit's a lunch person, right? I
eat a lot, so I became friendswith the lunch staff, and they
gave me free food all the time.
Okay? So that I had to, becausethese were my crew that made

(01:27:41):
that, that were advocating forme. So no matter where you go, a
10,000 30,000 person school to a5000 person school, the mission
is for you need like five peopleto know your name, we gotta do
it, because if you're not,you're just a number, and when

(01:28:03):
they look at your grade, theywon't know that there's a lot
going on in this person. Maybethey're an auditory versus
visual learner. They don't know.
So

yeah, and you know that's advice for life, because
it even with you, take that withyou beyond college, right into
any setting, is to have thatcrew. I love the crew advice.
That's fantastic. Gosh, I know Iwant to be in your mentor
program. I think it soundsfantastic. So Jake, tell me
what? So we know we're lovingthis. I'm hearing feedback. I

(01:28:37):
get to see it firsthand. It'sfantastic. What is your vision
for what you're doing?

I love this question. It's my favorite
question. So our vision, there'sa lot. First of all, we're going
to lower the college dropoutrate without a doubt. Okay, we
want to be the preferredmentorship solution in the
country, because we're changingthe game and how to reach
people, specifically those withlearning disabilities. Okay, our

(01:29:07):
world has a lot of problems, andthe only way to fix these
problems is by those who look atproblems differently, and those
are the nerd that's theneurodiverse community, and
we're losing them becausethey're not being reached. I
know today there is a futureElon Musk who is crying to his

(01:29:28):
mom so pained by school becauseno one understands him or her,
and we're losing talent in inproblem solvers due to just the
fact that no one knows how tocommunicate to these people, we
want to bring them up and givethem a platform to embrace who
they are. Okay, that's ourmission. And we want to partner

(01:29:51):
with schools all over thecountry, organizations, you
know, families. This is, this isthe future. I mean, it's the.
Number One feedback that we getfrom our families is that their
kids have gotten more out oftheir mentor than any
professional they've ever workedwith. There's a reason for that.
There's a reason for that.
Jacob,

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