Michael Zerafa Was #1 in the World — Until One Punch Ended Everything

Michael Zerafa was #1 in the World... then one punch changed everything.

He backed himself. Took the shot.

And got knocked out on the world stage.

The backlash was brutal. The country turned. Tall poppy syndrome kicked in fast. But instead of disappearing, Zerafa rebuilt, quietly, ruthlessly, and fought his way back. Now he’s ranked #1 in Australia again… and hungrier than ever.

👇 Inside this episode:

• The world title fight that didn’t go to plan
• What no one saw behind the KO
• How it feels when your own country turns on you
• What it takes to get back to the top
• Why he still backs himself, harder than ever

This isn’t just about boxing.

It’s about risk, pressure, public failure, and the guts it takes to show up again.

Back from the canvas. Back on top.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I think last time I was on here I was world number one and
unfortunately I went overseas and got caught with a big shot.
So rough. As I said, he's gone.
It was a wake up call. You know, a lot of people saying
you know the best of rap is gone.
I think the best of rap yet to be seen.
Think I was training day in day out, 2-3 times, 5-6 hours a day.

(00:22):
You know, world title, world title, world title.
I got to the point where I was obsessed.
I always say you better be underdone than overdone.
And I always use the analogy of people when they do meet me,
they say, oh man, you're actually such a nice guy, man.
Like, And that's what hurts the fact that they had this thought
of me prior to meeting him and even Tim, despite our hate
against each other. And I wish him all the best and
I do as a fellow Aussie, both top ten, both number one in the

(00:44):
country. If he wins, I win.
We unify. But it's shit.
Sometimes we see other Aussies bringing other Aussies down.
There's not many of us at that world level.
The fight didn't go your way like you said and you got your
shot, but the mindset after that.
Take us to that the moment you're lost around.
Welcome to the Little Fish podcast, bringing you
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(01:05):
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in the description. Let's get into it.

(01:26):
Fresh off a statement win and chasing the respect he has
earned, Michael's Arafa's back with a belt on his shoulder.
There it is, let's go and a few things to get off his chest.
Let's go mate. Thanks for coming back.
Thanks for having me, it's a pleasure.
Dude this is insane have you tried to pick this up?
No mate, that's. The real deal to Oh, that's.
Not one from. Thailand is it.
That's the. Real one man WBO.

(01:49):
One of many. That's the real deal, man.
For real man. That's a piece of jewelry,
right? So what have you been up to
other than just bashing heads in?
Yeah, literally I, I've just been training in the gym, you
know, I'm always staying ready, you know, I want, I want the
best. I mean, I had a bit of a set
back. I think last time I was on here,

(02:10):
I was world number one and and unfortunately I went overseas
and, and, and dared to be great and got caught with a big shot
in, in round two against, you know, the best in the world in
Lara and, you know, fell short in that, in that world world
title. And, you know, it's a fight that
I I didn't really, you know, want obviously no one wants to
lose, but it's a fight I felt like I needed.
I got very complacent, you know,being out of the ring for 18

(02:33):
months, I got very yeah, just just complacent and just doing
the right, the same things, you know, repetition in the morning
run, do my second session, go home.
And I was just waiting for that time.
So it was a wake up call, you know, and as sad as it was, I
worked my whole life to get thatopportunity.
And I got that opportunity and, you know, I was straight back.
I had my little cry, my little pretty party, and then I was

(02:55):
back in the gym and it sparked that fire.
And being 33 too, as you get older, you know, you some say
you lose it, but I felt like forme, it's it's maybe more hungry.
And then, you know, I've gone back-to-back now, two straight
wins. And my last one was a bit of a
statement because, you know, a lot of people saying Zaraf is,
you know, the best Zaraf is gone.

(03:15):
I, I think, yeah, the best rap is yet to yet to be seen.
And, you know, I was real complacent.
I was real cool, calm, collectedfor the guy that was tough, you
know, hadn't lost since 2016. You know, he was a former IBO, I
think, world champion. And I had a lot to prove.
I was training with Tim. Zu, my rival.
He's a veteran. Yeah, you know, and he, he was
training with my rival Tim Zu's my, you know, team in, in, in,

(03:38):
in, in a good camp. So I went out there and made a
statement, took what's rightfully mine and yeah, now
we're top ten in the world again.
And, you know, making making noise.
Amazing and you want to come on Australia's number one podcast
and. 100% the best in the biz. Tell us about it.
So, so the the fight didn't go your way like you said and you
got your shot, but the mindset after that.
To take us to that the moment you're lost, right, 'cause I'd

(04:02):
love to be. Yeah.
What was what was your initial? What's, what's the first thought
that you can think? And where were you?
And then take us through the first couple of days, man,
'cause when you're all in like you and when you believe so much
and you really it's destiny and all of that because you have to,
otherwise you no chance, right? So you have to.
And then when you fall short, how the fuck do you rationalize

(04:25):
it to then keep believing and move forward?
Yeah, Look, it was the hardest part of my career.
You know, any loss is because it's just pure disappointment.
I mean, you try to be strong because you got, you know,
people that look up to you, whether it's family, you know,
younger brothers, older sisters or, you know, nieces, nephews,
whatever friends, family, that small circle.
You, you try to be, you know, you try to be strong.

(04:45):
But I was gutted man. Like it was like a hole in my
heart. And like I said, I was in the
back rooms and I have a little, my little cry and, and, and what
not because I, I bust my ass working for that, for that
opportunity. You know, I was world #1 and I
think just the time out of the ring that 18 months was a long
time. A normal camp, you know, goes
for 12 months, you know, and it's hard. 2-3 times a day for

(05:08):
12 months. I was doing it for 18 months.
I mean 12 weeks, Sorry, I was doing it for 18 months.
Yeah. So it was, it was mentally
draining. And then the time I got to fight
time, I was kind of like burnt out and even warming up.
I was just off and I knew, you know, even in the back rooms, my
trainers, my team, my part and everyone was just like, what's,
you know, you're right. I was like, really?
Yeah, yeah, I knew. I knew.
I actually said prior to walkingout, I said we're going to be

(05:30):
back here pretty early, man, really do.
Yeah, Yeah. Is.
That like your bit style or something like, do you need
that? Like I'm not a fighter.
You boys are fighters. Yeah, Yeah, but a.
Couple of fighters. But do you need that like in the
ring to just to, you know, everyself to keep yourself sharp, I
guess Sounds like a long time between drinks to.
Yeah, that's exactly right. And I I was saying like

(05:50):
underdone is always uses even the young fighters up and comers
guys like yourself that have hadone or two fights.
And I always say you better be underdone than overdone.
And I always use the analogy of cooking the chicken because if a
chicken you take it out of the oven and it's underdone, you put
it back in, you can get it perfect, you can get it perfect.
But when you're overdone, it's done.
You can't go backwards. Yeah, you understand.
And that's like overtraining. The same thing.

(06:11):
I was training day in, day out, 2-3 times, 5-6 hours a day, you
know, world title, world title, world total.
I got to the point where I was obsessed.
And I'm obsessed with the sport.I'm obsessed with being the best
and, and trying, you know, and. You're not letting yourself off
the hook. Yeah, you know.
I'm I'm with you. 100% I understand that.
Every morning runs. Every night runs.
No matter how you're feeling, nomatter where you're at, you're

(06:32):
like, I've committed to this. There's no ifs and but a. 100%
no off the hooks and what was the worst thing was is it was
never like all the fights off. So Mick will let you know when
it's on. It was just always postponed,
yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So he's kept dangling the character.
So we're on March. Oh no, we're on June.
Oh look, it's now September. What was it?
What was it right the what was delaying the fight?
Just the contracts. Really.

(06:52):
Yeah, because Lara was in the process of fighting Danny Garcia
and I was the manager. I was the world #1 So he had to
fight me and it was just gettinglike delayed, delayed, delayed.
So I was always doing, you know,100 rounds and sparring and
doing all my work and everything.
And it was like, oh, now it's June.
So now I'll do another two or three months of another more
sparring and a time flight time came.
I was just, I was cooked. Well, you're.

(07:13):
Try and staying at your peak I suppose for too.
Long 18 months and I look I burnt out and I mean it's not
excuse I just I just yeah I knewI was going to come back early
and. So it wasn't so that that was
interesting because one of my questions I was going to ask is
where did you think you went wrong or what did you think you
could have done different on that night?
And it sounds like it had nothing to do with that.
No, it was just. Yeah, it was.

(07:34):
Just, you know, every day the. Preparation.
Yeah, like there. Was times where I'd go for runs
and like I'd actually like cry but I was not.
Nothing was even sad, it was just the body was just that
broken. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know. Like I'd get back and, you know,
be like, fuck, why? Why am I?
Your greatest strength? Yeah, became your greatest
weakness. Correct.
Yeah. Like it was just tired, you
know, like the inside was just physically like done.
And it's hard, you know, like I'd recover.

(07:56):
I was eating. I was doing everything right.
It's just for too long. Yeah.
You know, it was like driving a Ferrari just with the
exhilaration full pedal, you know, like down.
It was just. I think being in the public Isle
of Zorafran being some somewhat polarizing like yourself as
well, You know what did you mindgo there and think, Oh, these
fuckers are just going to be, you know what I mean?
They're they're all. The time you know, like you know

(08:17):
the the Fox Sports have said, you know, you've got the gift of
the gab. You know, my promoters no limit.
It's it's good and and it's bad,you know, because obviously
playing the villain, you get thethe platform.
I mean, you know, the, the Anthony Mundine, you know, the,
the Floyd Mayweather's in every sport, Nick Curioses, you know,
the in every sport, there's one and and it's great.
It's great to see that. You know, I said, well, mate,

(08:37):
the Raff is by a mile that person.
But then when you switch off, you know, so when it's fight
time, it's mad. You know, in the public eye,
there's people watching, you know, whatever.
But it's, it's that time when you go home and you there's no
boxing and you get drilled. You know, sometimes you wake up
and I'm like, man, I'm getting death threats.
I'm like, so I doesn't even knowme, you know what I mean?
Like it's. So this is on wine and yeah,

(08:57):
yeah, yeah, all. The time I had a brawl with one
yesterday, he was just drilling me.
He's like, oh, you know, you're this, you're that.
I'm like mate, like I feel sorryfor you, you know?
Like, but yeah, the Raff, why doyou, I suppose, Yeah, you.
Why do you engage in? Yeah, you know what I mean.
I don't usually, but sometimes like some of it just out of line
and you think you know? Yeah, this dude needs to be
checked, Yeah. If he was in front of me,
there'd be some hands. Yeah, yeah, taken.

(09:19):
But even my brother said, you know you guys.
Can say outrageous shit, yeah. But he goes, you know why you
even engage in it. I don't even waste your time.
And and then one or two messagesin.
I'm like it. Why I'm even?
Because let's say you know you because we've met.
This is the second time we've had the pleasure of meeting his
harass. And you're nothing like the
perception of what the world thinks that you are, right?
So I guess, and you know that, and the people that love you

(09:39):
know that. So I guess you just got to go.
You just ask yourself when you read it, you go, does this
person know me? No, fuck it.
Yeah, well, that's what I do, dothat now and I switch off.
I don't read anything. And then people, you know, when
they do meet me, they say, oh man, you're actually such a nice
guy, man. Like, and that's what hurts
like, you know, the fact that they had this thought of me
prior to to meeting me, you know, like I'll do anything for

(10:01):
anybody, you know, I. Mean like here's what other
people think until you meet him Zaraf and it really only matters
when you meet him and you have arelationship correct that you
know that that that you are who you are.
You know what I mean on. This sport I've.
Got to and you've got to and it's a it's a fighting sport man
and no you know when you're picking fights with people you
you're going to come off lookinglike a goose sometimes and
sometimes you're going to come off looking like a gangster 100%

(10:22):
you know what I mean you. Can't and that's what I say Fox
will say, mate, the way you speak and and sometimes I watch
back on some of my press conference.
I'm like, I don't even know how I got half this crap.
I don't even know how I think about this stuff and it's great.
It flows off the tongue and justrolls.
But you know, like there was talks that all might be fighting
Keith Thurman and that was straight away.
They said they didn't even talk about the fight.
They just talk about the press conference.
That's going to be mad. Zarafa, Keith Thurman is going
to be outrageous. You know what I mean?

(10:42):
Who's going to win this? And hands down, Oh, I said
straight away, maybe, you know, like, but yeah, sometimes it
gets, it can get annoying, you know, because people will have
this perception of you probably even meeting you.
But then, you know, being the bad guy, you know, you walk into
a room and it's like, oh, you can feel the aura change and I'm
like, oh, fuck, Sarah is here now.
You know, this is it's different, but then remarkable.
Man, but you know what changes everything though?

(11:03):
What? What clears it all?
Become a world champion. Well, that's it.
Yeah, it's all over. And as a matter man, the world,
like everyone loves you because you just did.
It doesn't. And people say, you know, people
say what they want. And that's another thing I love
too. Like the Raff is the bad guy is
a villain. But you know where I've been,
what I've done in the sport, it holds credentials, you know what
I mean? I'll beat never a 411 world
champions. I've won every regional belt for

(11:23):
for two world totals being in their backyard.
Travelled. Absolutely.
I beat everyone in the backyard,you know, there's only the only
one that left is that team zoo fight.
And it will happen eventually, but you know, we're on different
paths. He's a golden child, you know,
and I'm, I'm, I'm the bad boy, you know, and, and sadly, the
bad boy I. I saw something about his team's
coming out, 'cause it's, there's, you know, we're, we're
neck deep in it right now really, aren't we?

(11:45):
So like saying, like saying something about maybe that, like
that fight was never gonna happen, but maybe you should
think about fighting his brotherNikita is that I'm sitting here
going or being a fighter, knowing you're a fighter.
Yeah, well, that's not an idea. But fuck it, I'll fuck him up.
And then if you say that you'll fight me if I have to go through
him. Yeah.
Yeah, there. Let's go.
Well, the two paydays. The fight's always going to

(12:06):
happen and this is what people don't understand.
People just see me or my team orhis team and then they think,
oh, that's the truth. That's the truth.
Yeah. We're both sides of the same
promoters. Yeah, true.
You understand. And there there was a reason why
the first fight didn't happen. It just builds for a bigger, a
bigger fight. You know, we've I've got a
contract in place. I can't say too much, but he's
amongst that that contract. Yeah, yeah.

(12:28):
So he's in there somewhere. Yeah, yeah.
So that's written in like it's part of the part of the
playoffs, Yeah. So I can't say the win pro
story. Yeah, yeah.
So. And the idea is, you know, we
both get world titles. We both unify, you know, in the
process of that. But you know, he's got a younger
brother and it just builds because they've got obviously
the last name zoo. He's undefeated, right?
So you could go and take his Oh.I wouldn't take.

(12:50):
His zero yeah yeah, yeah. Imagine that builds the story
for Tim. That's what I that's.
What I want, yeah, you know, but.
And they, they're the one that put it out into the universe,
right? It was their team that said,
well, think about fighting the key to go, Yeah, yeah, bet I'll
take him out, take his O, and then there's nowhere to go.
And then that builds that fight into already what would already
be one of the biggest, if not biggest correct of all time.

(13:10):
And the same thing it still goes.
It's still a Zarrafa via zoo. Yeah, You know, so it's the same
headline. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's what they want, because me fighting any one of
them is a sellout. That's a good.
That's a yeah, that's. A and there's plans and talks
that that could happen and I'm more than happy I said that
after my last fight so. You're up for the.
So that was one of my questions today.
Would you fight in the? I understand.
If it makes sense financially orit's going to move me up the

(13:32):
rankings and give me a world title opportunity, I'll fight.
Anybody. Or if they guarantee to fight.
Tim, you go back. I'll take it man you.
Know not like the other guy. I I got my phone.
Did you watch the fight? Chest.
Yeah. Man, that party.
Yeah. Is that who you're talking
about? Yeah.
They called you out. So let's see.
Nine and one. I have.
Yeah. I looked him up.
He was nine and one. Yeah, I got no idea why, why I
was watching. I wasn't even watching the event

(13:52):
and my phone just went crazy and.
I saw your post, which is what triggered me.
Oh yeah? Yeah.
You're pissed off I go away. He's pissed off about something,
Yeah. Yeah, and I was like, they're
like the the Brendan Bradford, one of the guys goes, oh, what
do you reck? What's your response?
And I said, I don't know who you're talking about.
I'm not even watching, you know what I mean?
But look, it's it's. It's good he's calling you, but
yeah. You know, like.
And I went and researched it andto respect to that kid, to to,

(14:13):
to that fight as well. He's calling.
He shot me. Yeah, Yeah.
And he said it was quite the best.
And he want exactly Zarath, he wants to fight up and he wants
to fight the best. And if you're the best than
that, you're going to get them calling in your ear and you're
not going to know who they all are because the the real
gangsters, because, you know, the fighters, man, the real
gangsters will fight the fuckingbest.
Yeah, but not everyone will, man.
Because some of them on a careerpath, they need to make money

(14:34):
and they need to stay safe or whatever, right?
Well, I had his whole team reachout to him and I said straight
out with respect to the yeah, yeah, doesn't mate.
You know, I didn't watch the fight and I've never heard of
him. Respectfully, I said.
But you know. Your response as well.
You've got to call it as it is as well, man.
I said, you know, I'm, I'm, I'veearned my stripes.
I've fought the best and I've got there.
You know what I mean? I didn't get there by calling
guys out on demand. Do I want to fight this guy on
fight that that guy? You know, I worked myself up in
the rankings and I I fought the best, beat the best and and

(14:56):
cleaned out my backyard. You know, this guy respectfully
wants to fight the best and I understand that.
But you know, there's a time andplace and nothing financial is
going to come from that. There's he's got nothing I want,
you know, looking up, looking him, looking up to me.
Yeah, you fighting backwards forthat?
Yeah, absolutely. You know him, me looking at him,
it's. But it's a good call out from
him, knowing that he's probably never going to get the fight
because now, people, now you do know who he is, right?

(15:19):
So the next time he fights, guess who's probably going to
fucking TuneIn? Because he knows someone's
coming for him. And you know what?
He could be who he says he is. Yeah.
Yeah. So you need to be ready, right?
When you're at the top, they're all coming for you.
So if he is who he says he is, you need to, you need to keep an
eye on him. So yeah, I liked it, but I liked
your response as well. But which is like, yeah, just

(15:39):
chill out. Just.
Calm down, you know, but we got to do that.
You got to do, you got to put them in the spots because a lot
of people. Well, you've had it happen to
you, dude. Well, that's what, well, I've,
I've given guys opportunity. That's what I meant.
I've cleaned out my backyard, you know what I mean?
And this guy's called, he's sitting at #5 or 4, whatever he
is. And I'm number one, you know,
fight #3 fight #2 you know, he'strying to go straight to #1
there's a, there's, there's a path that you got to take.
You know, Hardman did it with meand, you know, yeah, he kind of

(16:00):
annoyed me. That's why I took the
opportunity, because I knew I'llbeat him.
And I mean, you know, the whole world was on a Hardman's too big
and Zaraf is too small and. I remember that, I said, you
know. The biggest mistake you do did
was sign that contract, you know, and, and you know, I mean
hard. We hated each other and, you
know, we just had a personality clash and whatnot.
And I'm sure he's I've actually never really caught up with me
outside of, you know, that that whole build up, but we just

(16:23):
generally hate each other. It made a lot easier for me to
to to hurt him, you know, and and I knew I was a skills pay
the bills and I knew that that fight was going to be an easy
win for me. And obviously we stopped him in
the second round and we shut himup.
And so we. Have a good noisy fight that.
Yeah, you know, lucky and we've given these guys the
opportunity, but again, there's nothing for me fighting a guy
that's nine and one, you know what I mean?
Like he's. Yeah, respectfully.

(16:45):
So mate, you're up in Craigieburn, dude.
I've been following along prettyclosely, man.
You've got the gym up there. What's the plan with the gym?
I know you've got, you've got the family and the teens growing
out like teens are ass. You know, you're taking on the
world now, man. You've got you're signing big
deals. I know.
I saw you at the the function for the Melbourne Victory.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fox Sport.

(17:08):
Is it Fox Sports? Yeah, Fox Sports.
Tell us, tell us all the crazy shit that's going on, man,
Because what happened? You know what I fucking love,
man? You did.
You put all, you went and you lost, right?
But you got back up and you've had two fucking good wins, man.
And you put yourself back up on top and now they're all coming
back. So yeah, tell us.
I just want to do, man, I just, for me, I wake up and I'm

(17:29):
always, I'm always just working,you know, whether it's in the
gym training or it's on my laptop or making calls, sending
emails. I'm always trying to be better.
I open up the gym and I open up the gym because I hate going to
America. I didn't open it to, for a
business, to be quite honest with you.
I thought, how can I dodge goingto Vegas for 12 weeks?
You know, I just, I, I hate it over there and my team's over

(17:51):
there. And I thought, you know what,
why don't I open up a gym close to me and fly my team out?
You know, I've got great sponsors, I've got great support
and, and whatnot. I can, you know, financially
bring them down here. And as soon as everyone found
out I opened up a gym, I had people whilst I was training
knocking on the door and oh, is this open for the public?
And you know what not, And I miss this guys.
Why don't we just do a, a, an open day And you know, before

(18:11):
you know it, it was pumping. And now we got an awesome crew
down there at 13 rounds in in Craigieburn.
And looks the Kurda too. Yeah, it's it's the best little
studio. And I mean, I've been to gyms
all around the world and I know the vibe's different, I know
it's mine. So I'm going to be a little bit
biased, but just the vibe's different.
I mean, the people that are there, the colours, just the
atmosphere, even just the car parks better than every other
car park I've been to. Like it's closed off, it's big,

(18:34):
it's, it's safe, it's, it's amazing.
But yeah, like I said, I've justbeen in the gym training.
I trained 560 hours a day. Then at night time I, I clock on
and I, I don't, I didn't hire any PTS or personal trainers
like that because I wanted to beamongst it all and get around
them and teach the kids and, andwhat not.
And then my brother then just passed finished his course in in

(18:55):
in personal training and your. Brother who you tried to match
me up on. Yeah, yeah.
Fight with him. You know Jase?
He's done his personal training.And.
He's nutritional nutrition and all that stuff.
And so he he gives me a huge chop out and I've actually just
employed him in part of the teamand, and yeah, yeah, a huge,
huge asset to the demon in in. Holding.

(19:16):
Come on, Jason, get Jason come and tell us what's going on.
Yeah. Yeah, Jay.
Yeah, he can bring. It over.
Yeah, yeah, man, we wanted to bring you on, man.
Like tell us, mate, like to watch your brother or suppose,
you know, you get to watch your brother be the villain, right?
So you know who he is and obviously that.
So that would be tough, right? Beans harassed brother in some

(19:36):
circumstances. But tell us now, like you've
just joined the team, what's changing?
What's the plan? What's your role and where are
we going? Well, look, it's you got to hold
yourself accountable every day, You know, being brand new to the
team, there's not a lot that youcan teach someone at his level.
So every day I'm trying to work my own brain and, and improve as

(19:58):
a person so I can help him. You know, that's that's the
biggest trick to it is just trying to work every single day
and and implement new things that can that can help Michael,
because, you know, coming comingon now this late into his
career, you know, he's. There's not many that you can
teach him. But you've been there.
Have you sort of been riding shotgun most of the time anyway?
Do you know what I mean? Being.
His little he's only and his little brother.

(20:21):
What's the age of different boys?
Six years. Yeah, right.
So, yeah. So you weren't really bashing
him because he was too little? I was.
Yeah. Like he, he was one of those
kids were bashing, but he'd comeback days later and get me, you
know? So really, really, you know, So
he'd let me get the win, but then he'd come back and clock me
three days later, you know? I mean, yeah, so it's hard, but.
Can I ask you about that? Can I?
I'm fascinated about that life from your perspective.

(20:42):
Scenes Araf, you know, get the hard time and get get pinned as
a villain and and I love that you've you know, you've went
into a draft because yeah, you should because they're better
off as long as they're talking about your man and they're
paying and you know then the pain to watch it.
It's better than than don't knowyou exist.
But what's it like for you man? You know what I mean?
Like. Well, look, I'm, I'm not just
going to say it just because he's in front of me, but you

(21:02):
know, he's, he's always been a really good brother.
You know, I'm not, and I'm not just saying it because he's in
front of me. You know, he's, he's, he's got a
heart of gold, you know, so and he, like we, we see it all the
time. You know, we hear people talk
about us. You know, we, we get it face to
face, you know, when we're in different states.
No doubt, man. Yeah.
So to see it, you know, look it,it sucks, but you can't change
it. You know, it's, there's no point
trying to change it as long as you focus on being a good

(21:25):
person. That's the main thing that
happens. You know, always giving to
people that are in need. If and if you can help someone,
why not? And just know who you are, yeah.
Absolutely. And and that's what I always,
you know, some because I know it's harder.
And I see that on my brother, you know, it's, it's not easy
like having a whole country thathe's represented so well for so
long. Yeah, just keep that nice and
close. Yeah.
No, no. It's it's hard to see, you know,

(21:45):
a country that, yeah, you know, that mix represented at such a
high level. For SO.
Long, you know, so and so passionately and and yeah,
patriotically, I suppose, like absolutely yeah.
Proud Aussie he's. Done it very well you know, I've
seen it from first hand we we stepped into to the first the
first ever gym that we trained at was a garage so we but we
both walked into that garage together you know and, and to
see him go from this garage to. He walked in together on the

(22:08):
same day and, and, and that is that is absolutely outrageous.
How old were you? 12 maybe?
12 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess Michael, talk to us.
What what made you want to bringJason?
What what you know, obviously isyour brother, but you know, you
can't just be bringing people onto your team because they're
your brother. That's not how you win world

(22:29):
champion. So obviously he's got something
that you're saying, well. I've always known his boxing
brains, you know, probably better than mine.
He understands the sport just asgood if not better than me.
So, and it started with him Bisping in the gym because, you
know, he passed all his, you know, certificates and whatnot,
said, bro, I'll give you the platform he used the gym he was
doing and he was just doing a, ajust a casual PT.
And just while he was holding pads and what he was saying, I

(22:49):
was like, man, this, you know, Isaid, all right, let's let's
just run a session together, man.
And and you know to do. You get your discount.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's costing me an arm and a
leg. There's no mates right here, you
know what I mean? Or fucking, but, you know, to,
to and I'll, and I'll say this, you know, for me, because not
many trainers can can, you know,hold the pads for me because my

(23:11):
timings, you know, it is, it's great.
It's hard to, to, to, to just get on that same wavelength.
And, you know, the first sessionhe was just, he was just there.
And umm, yeah, like it was just jailed.
We just jailed. And I was like, man, why not do
this way earlier, you know, and I've had great pad holders in
the past. And, umm, you know, I just felt
like, yeah, this could be. And I've got him at my own kind

(23:32):
of calling, you know? Hey, bro, I need pads.
We got pads Monday, Wednesday for all you know, whatever days.
That may be. You know, we're, we're smashing
out four or five times a week and he's watching me SPA and
implementing these, implementingthat and.
It's just another watchful. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and he's a natural southpaw, so it's gonna benefit
me moving, you know, if the Nikita fight does go ahead or,
you know, if there's a southpaw in a Lara fight, if I get a

(23:53):
another opportunity. Where was he when I needed Lara,
you know, passed by Lara. But he's just.
Yeah, he's just boxing brain, you know, he's he's great.
Yeah. And.
You didn't tell me that when youwere trying to match me up to
fight him. But you know, it's just, like I
said, it's good. It's just good having him
around. And yeah, like, we smashed out
sparring this morning, pad work this morning.
We're in again tomorrow. And yeah, it's just because I'm

(24:14):
like in Australia, sadly, a lot of trainers aren't full time
trainers, you know, so they've, they've got jobs and, you know,
so that's one of the things I struggled with, you know, like,
oh, hey, coach, you know. Getting a full time, and I know
that as well because I did mine,as you know, I did mine.
It was hard to find someone, even the boys that had the gym.
Shout out to Empire in Thomastown.
Legend. Yeah, yeah.

(24:35):
You know the boys down there. Yeah.
Do you know the boys down there?Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Man, Legends. But you know, it's hard to get,
they've got commitments, right? They've got, they're living
their own lives. And then I just go and drop.
I've got a fight on them. Yeah, yeah.
That's, that's what I mean. I found it was hard to like, oh,
hey, coach, you know, can we do 10 AM?
He's like, oh, I've got work, you know, can we do 6:30 at
night? And it was just, you know, it
was always hard. So at least now, you know, I

(24:55):
already know my week in advance.You know my my strength.
But you know you're going to be a world champion, man.
That's that's how it has to be methodical, right?
Correct. And I'm training 560 hours a
day, you know, and I've got my sparring booked in, my strength
conditioning, my Sprint work, myhill work, my pad work.
What have we changed since? What did we change after the
loss? Where you're overtrained that's
put you on the two run fight that you've looked amazing, What

(25:19):
did you change? What was the main thing?
To be honest, it's all mentalitymentality and add a lot more
recovery. Share that to Kiva Wellness,
who's decked out my house with afull recovery center.
You know which, he nearly died in it yesterday, so his boxing
ability is not as good as his ice bath.
Oh well, I'll take him in three weeks then, you know.

(25:40):
But but yeah, like I've set up my, my house with a, with a full
recovery kit, you know, with icebath, infrared saunas and all
that stuff. So I'm doing that 2, three times
a day as well. So I'll train, use it, train,
use it before bed, use it. You know, my diet's improved,
got nutrition on board as well and everything else.
So it's just the one, literally the one percenters.
I know it sounds cringey but it's literally those one.

(26:01):
Percenters and being consistent and yeah, yeah, like I think
like, you know, you just explained it then just
calibrating your training schedule so that it works for
you, not works for the people that are trying to train you and
stuff like that. And training is meant to be like
as much as it's it's going to befun.
How often do you spare? Twice a week.
Every week, twice a week? And what kind of rounds?
And so depending on who it is, depending on who we fight and

(26:23):
and. So even in off, when you're not
training for a fight, you're still.
You know, I've got boys in the gym that we, we, we, you know,
move around. We move around this morning and
you know, we're amateurs. We've got pros.
If not, I'll I'll get people in or we'll fly people in.
What do you, Waze, are at? I'm 70, I'm 74 kilos.
In trouble with a long jab? You know what I mean?

(26:43):
Yeah. Well, yeah, you know, but we,
we, we're always training, you know, the, the sparring, the the
intensity. Changes obviously, right.
So, but you're always sparring and but you might bring in and
then the rounds will go up and the intensity goes up.
But with where I'm at now, you know, like because of the years
of boxing and and the hard part of it, now I do smart sparring's
not that important and people think in oh, you need a sparring

(27:05):
and careers die in in gyms. You know, all the UFC fighter
designer too. You know, like I've seen people
in sparring session. I'm watching it like this, like
Jesus, like the brain cells are losing.
You know, it's, it's fucking strange, man, how it elevates.
No one means it. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah. Yeah.
Because I always say because when you spot, it's meant to be
100%, yeah. Because what happens is that

(27:25):
what elevates is because someonewill go 60% and at one first
round, second round someone willgo 70%.
Yeah, man. And then that's when it takes
off a. 100% and then you might and it might not even that
person might not even be going 70% but they just they land a
60% clean one. Yeah, yeah.
And that just pisses the other dude off.
And then they think that that was that wasn't 60.
Next thing you know. Yeah, yeah, we got one of those

(27:47):
guys at the gym like we Mark, weChuck him in there and he he
would Chuck on a pair of eight ounce gloves and just start
swinging at like 15 year olds. I'm like, Jesus Christ, get out
of the ring. You know, like, but yeah, the
intensity changes when you sparred and that's just, that's
just, but I feel like you work on things, you know, when you go
on. So you're not just sparring you,
you you. It's more technical sparring and
control. What you do in a fight, like

(28:07):
I've seen people have that hard of spars that they don't make
the fights because they like cutbroken bones or just battered.
You know, it's it's meant to be calculated and and what you've
been with. Like if me and Jay are doing
Monday to Friday work, let's tryit Saturday for sparring.
Yep. You know you meant to be game
planning and implementing what you're doing, you know?

(28:29):
Intelligent about it. Yeah, like when I spar, I put my
head there. Bang, I'll get hit.
All right. I'll put it there.
I'll get hit again. I can't put my head there now.
Yeah, I'll put it there. I'm safe.
I put it there. I'm safe now.
I know. You know, I start dissecting
where I can and can't be. Some people walk in the gym and
they just want I won that spa. Yeah.
That's not. Yeah, yeah, thankfully I'm in a
gym that no one's like that, thankfully, Like, yeah, I'm in

(28:51):
a, I'm in a cool gym where definitely no one's like that.
But at the same time, what I love about it is like you said,
if my hand is not where it should be, I'll get popped, I'll
get popped, man. And so you should.
And, and if you don't want to get popped, then they'll
normally go fuck, you're right, mate.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm right. I just gotta keep fucking hand
up, you know what I mean? So yeah, yeah.
And there's. Nothing more I love than hard
spine don't get. Wrong.
Same man. There's times where I'm in there
and I'm like, man, I love. This.

(29:11):
Oh, I love it when. Yeah.
Yeah, you know, right. You just know when, when they
shape up, he's gonna be shaping how they set.
Yeah, yeah. You just fucking know, man.
Yeah, well, I've had spars, man,I love it.
I've had spars with. Shits me, I shoot myself, I love
it. Yeah, well, I don't, I don't.
Well, I've done it my whole lot so I don't get nervous or
scared. But I've had 12 round spars
where people are like man, like hell are you doing this?

(29:31):
You know, we've sat there in thecentre of the ring with World.
I've done it in Vegas or England.
We sat centre ring and we've just punched on shot for shot 12
rounds, you know, like and then the times I take my headgear
off, oh man, I I just want to sleep, you know, like, but you
need those spas. Don't get me wrong, you do need
those spas, but there's time andplaces.
Because you need to be like, especially for me, for someone

(29:53):
that's learning, you need to be,you need to put yourself under,
under pressure, right? You need to under duress.
Like if you haven't had a fight before, you're gonna, if you
don't do the hard sparring, if you don't have guys better than
you're walking you down and you end up in the ring with someone
that's slightly better than you walk and you're down, it's gonna
end pretty quickly. Put yourself out of your
comfort. Yeah, you gotta put yourself out

(30:13):
of your comfort. But even that, you know, like if
you get in there now and I'll get me in there and I'll just
come in at 100%, you're not learning anything.
Yeah, true. Yeah, it's.
All it's gonna do is just gonna,it's gonna cook your head.
You're gonna say, you know what,bro?
I'm a boxing. I'm fuck.
I've got no hair. That's true.
You're not thinking, man. I'm sparring the best, you know,
It's gonna just crush your confidence.
You're probably gonna get I'm. Gonna come up and move around,
but I'm yeah a. 100%, but that'swhat I'm saying.

(30:34):
But like, there's yeah, there's a time and place.
Don't elevate me. No, don't fucking elevate me.
But yeah, like they, they, it's just, yeah, some people just
don't understand. They just want that one that's.
I think, I think, I think you'reright.
I think that's when I think that's early, but I think you
get caught out pretty quickly ingood boxing gyms pretty, you
know what I mean? Like most people like it gets

(30:55):
called out pretty quickly in most boxing gym.
I think most people you're most well, I haven't been into as
many gyms as you, but I've been in lucky to been in a few and a
lot of they're all trying to stay safe and look after each
other. Yeah, well.
Overseas is different, man. You know, I've been, I was
trying I. Was me Thailand?
Dude I was like same. Yeah, well, I was with Freddie
Roach, I was with all the world champions there, so I was
contracted there. I was sparring.

(31:17):
Where's his team in? In LA.
LA Yeah. I was there, I was at DLX, I've
been at Top Rank, I've been at all those gyms and like you walk
in there, it's another like I got stood over by a girl and as
soon as I walked in, like, what do you mean?
Like, so she was warming up. She wasn't sparring me and she
was just over there and I was, Iwas getting ready to spar one of
the world champions before Lara.And I was stretching out stuff

(31:38):
and I was like, oh, man, you because they had the heaters on.
And I was talking about how hot it is in the in, in the in the
gym. And I was like, man, you
Americans, you guys do it different.
Yeah. And she heard me say something
about Americans. She's got out the ring, she's
walked over. She's like, what'd you say about
Americans? And I'm like, I just pause.
I'm like, what? She's like, what'd you say about
Americans? I said, oh, Nah, you guys just

(31:58):
do things different to us. She goes, yeah, that's what I
thought. I was like, what the hell?
Man had cornrows just. Have you ever been to the Brizzy
Brothers? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Someone had
them. Well, yeah, yeah.
Dude, we shot a pod. Hasn't come out yet.
We shot a pod with Sammy. Yeah, yeah, in the ring, dude.
He's a legend, he's boxing, odd,Q's unbelievable.
He's fucking he. Yeah.
Like walking into that gym as well.

(32:18):
Like just hearing the history and the story and.
Stuff, but that one of the first.
Man, it's a 50 year old dude. Like, it's incredible, man,
Incredible. That's a.
Great thing. Generation started in a backyard
man like. They've done great things for
the amateurs. Yeah, he's, yeah, he's old man.
But Pete will tell you, we went there, man.
We walked in. Pete walked in.
This is his comment, the first comment.

(32:39):
He said I'm in there with Sammy and Bonnie and Pete's never met
Sammy. He walks into that gym and he
goes, fuck, did Rocky fucking train him 'cause that's what it
felt like, yeah. Yeah, I used to train there and
yeah, I've been, I've been a lotof gyms, man.
You know, like in Melbourne, youjust always want the best and,
and, and I feel like trainers and a lot of people say I was

(33:01):
rather gone from gym to gym and I haven't gone gym to gym.
You know, I've always left. What do you think of that?
Because I'm a I'm a newcomer andI, I do notice that people like
you, they're very gym centric. Because I'm like you.
I'd love to flow I. Love that, you know, I love
flowing and I always leave. Yeah, that's what I mean.
And. And Bruce Lee was the best one
ever. Do it.
You know, he learned everyone's style.
But for me, you know, I feel like trainers sometimes can only
take you to a level and then you're kind of forced to go, you

(33:23):
know, because it's not there in their head for you to become a
world champion or, you know, they've got their life, their
family, their job, their business, and they can only take
you so fast. So then you can either stay
there and, and just and level out.
Level out. Yeah.
Or, you know, Hey, leave on goodterms.
Hey, coach, I'm thinking, you know, I'm gonna go overseas and,
and go up a level or, you know, and, and they, you know.
And it can still always be your home and always play your the

(33:45):
place you play homage to and respect and.
Whatever. I just love learning from
everyone, you know? Like, because like, we're Sam
Prizzy's. Absolutely, I do great in areas
and I've learnt so much from him.
You know, another trainer will teach me something else and
overseas I'm like, oh is that? And I love, I love just
learning. So did you know Jeff and Aunt
from and Pep from Empire? Yeah.
Yeah, I think pretty sure they follow me on Instagram or.

(34:05):
I've Yeah. I know them well.
Yeah, I know. I know they're.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good year.
Thomastown. Yeah, Thomastown.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Legends, man.
Jeff's hands or. Yeah, and that's what I mean.
You might go there and learn something from him.
And then you come to me and you're like, oh, OK.
Oh, yeah, Jeff did. Oh, he did mention that.
But I thought. And you?
Learned, I noticed that when I did, because I did 6 and I'd
never, I'll tell you what, I didthat 16 weeks before I went to

(34:25):
Thailand and I, I did it at Empire.
So I learned their style, right.And it's the only style I'd ever
learned. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then I went to the gym in Thailand.
It was Russian. And I me coach for me fight.
So I did seven weeks with him. It was Russian, right?
So it learned. Different stuff.
Completely different dude. So it was, it was, you know,
from, from that, that movement in and out movement.

(34:47):
It was more keeping keeping the jab out and and and join him in
Yeah, yeah. That's why when people say, oh,
he's not loyal. And it's not about loyal.
It's about like, I want to get the best out of what I can, what
I want to. Yeah, I want to, I want to try
to, you know, if I've got 10 years, I want the best out of
that 10 years. You know, like if someone opens
a business, you know you want the best for your business.
For me, I've gone. They're going to get just going

(35:08):
to one course of one dude and only ever doing that.
Yeah, You know, I want to learn 20 courses and be, you know, a
master of 20 things, not one, you know, and, you know, a lot
of people sometimes have something to say about that,
always going to gym, to gym. And it's like, no, well, it's
not the case. You know, I've gone just to try
to better myself. And then, you know, I've
implemented trainers from overseas now, you know, with

(35:28):
multiple world champion fightersover there, you know, in Nanito
da Naire and his partner Rachel.And, you know, Linares was keen
that he wants to help out too. And you know, there there's so
many people that want. To work with people are starting
to take. Notice Yeah, you know, and it's
sad that, you know, we live in acountry and I've I've done so
much for the sport. I've been around.
You know, I was I was I was on Iwas fighting when mundane was

(35:49):
winning world titles. You know, I'm the only one
that's still around from that era, you know, and to see
sometimes the hate that I'll getand, and you know, the, you
know, that polarizing that villain role.
Would you agree it's it is softening back?
Maybe that's just me softening, but I I feel like I feel like
it's softening giraffe man. I feel like I ran the the
Hardman times like it was it wasprobably, you know, because you

(36:11):
were being vocal and that yeah, maybe is it still that bad now?
Would you? Say it's still look it's bad
when it comes to man, Tim. You just.
Yeah, yeah, of course, OK, because.
That's just a problem. People just think, yeah, I
didn't want that fight and I was.
I pushed for that fight. Been a week of the fight.
I'm telling he's lucky. I remember it was the COVID
thing and get it was. Just my yeah, just management

(36:32):
team. Just, you know, certain.
Things things happen for a reason.
Well, OK, this fight is going tobe so much bigger once you sort
out Nikita and then you take your neck.
Yeah, everything, yeah, everything happens for a reason,
man, so and. He's he.
I look. And even Tim men, Tim will say,
like, you know, he's on his own path as well.
Man, we are with Angela. His path was going 100 miles
that way. And he's had to take a bit of a
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

(36:53):
And it does, you know, I just want people to know that it
wasn't on my end. Because he's like, I think that
fight didn't go ahead. I mean, that fight was.
I think you're both lucky because you've both been able to
go on this path and hope, I'm assuming.
Do you see the Vulk? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hopefully the Vulk inspires you,but I was.
Actually talking to him, I'm actually good Mason, I was
talking to him about 2-3 days ago, he was checking in on me
and mate, he's an absolute legend.

(37:13):
He is, He is. He is the man.
Like you just look at that guy and do what he does and think
how he thinks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because yeah, like he just did it.
Yeah, he just did it tenfold, like he just did, like uncommon.
We need, we need a vogue. Statue.
Yeah. Do you?
Know what I mean? Like, you can't comprehend the
adversity that this guy went through and everyone wrote right

(37:34):
now. Yeah, man.
And and then he comes back and he does what he did.
And it just got to show you and Tim that yeah, yeah, it's just
an even better man. Well, they even say they were
saying like even the the the commentators and you know, the,
the ringing houses up. There's one guy that can't to me
in particular. And he was like, man, how are
you still going? Like with what you've been
through, the hurdles you've had to jump, the teams that have
tried to, you know, derail you, the management that tried to

(37:55):
derail you, promoters that have tried to like, how are you still
going? He goes, if you once you win a
world title, he goes, the story is going to be on another level.
And that's that's for me, like inspires.
That's what gets me out of everymorning because I manifest this
every day that it's going to happen.
It's a matter of time. Man, if you, I think, yeah, I
think the world has shown. The universe has shown is if you

(38:17):
stay on the path long enough, only yeah.
You just don't give up. You just don't give up.
Yeah, just. Keep going.
Eventually, even if you don't, even if everything goes bad,
bad, they can only last 24 hours.
That's what I always say. And then the next day comes, it
might be another bad day, but it's only 24 hours, correct?
And you know, if you just stick at it, eventually in that
journey, people are going to drop off because they've
retired, they've given up, they've quit, and you're going
to get that opportunity. And, you know, I had that

(38:39):
opportunity. I've had that opportunity.
And you know, I'm top ten in theworld.
I'm seeing #7 in the world. Now crazy.
That's Wildman. Everyone see division.
Too man huge division. Stack division.
Yeah, so can I ask the Raff, man, we can't have you on ice
for 18 months, dude. You need to fucking fight, bro.
What Do you know what I mean? And and the thing when you get
into the top ten, I don't need to tell you this.

(38:59):
That's when it gets complicated with the contracts.
And yeah, yeah, you can't fight backwards.
You got to fight upwards otherwise.
So then you're at risk of being on ice again because that's
where you're at. You're at that inflection point
again where you either need to maybe take in the key to zoo
fight and risk it all or you know, and risk it and for
something great different or I don't know, like how do you get

(39:21):
these guys to sign up, man? For me, like I said, if it moves
me forward, even if they're behind me, you know, if there's
a. Vacant so you're going to.
You're not. It's not necessarily about a
number by their name, it's aboutjust getting bigger fights.
You just want to. Be for me, there's only one,
there's only one position that means something to me.
That's number one. Yeah, OK.
For me, if they ring me, that guy that called me out, then if
they ring me up and say Mick, we've got the vacant world title
and it's a it's $500,000 off fighting.

(39:44):
It's an easier fight for me. So you, you correct me if I'm
wrong as well. So you've just signed, you've
signed with Fox and you've signed new promoters.
Yep. So is that looking?
Is that all going up? Everything's going up for.
You so that's three fight contract per year for how many
years for for two years? So guaranteed 3 fights every
year. Yep.
So that's six fights. One of them we know.

(40:05):
Yes, rhymes with shoe. Yes.
So I've had the first one in, you know, the tough German I
had. Now the next 1 is looking like
August. You know, it's it's a stacked
division at the moment. And like I said, I'm willing to
fight. Anybody August?
Where? Where?
Where do you reckon? Well, there's talks that it's
going to be in Cairns. I mean, nothing's official.
Yeah, I don't know why. Why is that?

(40:25):
I don't. Know what you are.
OK, I. Got no idea.
I mean, yeah, big crocodile mate, but yeah, Cairns I heard.
But Sydney, obviously no limits.My promoters, Fox Sports, KO,
all those guys, production crew.Yeah, like I said, I just want
to, I want to be busy. I'm 33 years old.
I feel like mentally it's the best.

(40:48):
And I say this because you're young and dumb.
I feel like when you're older, you know, you're mature.
Just even when I'm boxing, you know, like just the smarts.
And it showed my last fight and everyone was saying, you know,
there's glimpses of the older Rafa coming back, but it's the
older Rafa in an older body, more mature body, more, you
know, more mature mind. So I feel like, yeah, there's

(41:11):
there's a storm coming. I'm a storm.
I love it. There's a storm coming to your
gym in three weeks as well, justquietly in.
The Thunder like I'm down under no.
Good to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, man, let's let's bring PK back in.
So talk to a seraph about the gym.
Have you got like, has it inspired or no?
It wasn't a plan, but knowing the kind of guy that you are,

(41:35):
you go all in on everything thatyou do.
And I've seen the gym. It looks insane, mind you, the
13 rounds, the branding, the white bags and stuff.
Any interesting because obviously your fighting career
is not going to go forever. Is that is that you're thinking
maybe I could start building outa a a fight gym and you could
find some fighters and and go down that path?
Or are you thinking just the gymfor kids and more of a community

(41:57):
gym or what are you thinking? I.
Always said once I'm done with boxing, I'm done.
I I didn't want to be in the sport.
Yeah, I've always said it. You know, I feel like I want to,
you know, hang them up and and and and just try something new,
you know, whether it be another GG, another sport, another

(42:17):
profession, another business, I don't know.
But I love it there, you know, the banters and and and.
But handing down that knowledge,yeah.
Well, that's what I say. It's a martial art.
It's a martial art, you know, and if you really, really love
it, and for someone that has travelled, you said it, dude.
You have literally passed through some of the not some of

(42:39):
all of the best gyms in the world, and you know what I mean?
So what you don't realize is by default that you've picked up
all of this knowledge and stuff that you can pass on that then
lives on. Does that make sense?
Otherwise, it fucking dies with you, dude.
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's true and and that's
what's getting to me now becauseI'll see all these young kids
that have have, you know, just walked in the gym, you know,
they're 15 years old and they, they just love the sport.

(43:00):
They've never gone anywhere else.
And then now they've been at thegym for say 8 months and from
where they were and where they are, it's like watching like one
of your own kids. Has to be fulfilling.
Yeah, you know, like I'm like, man, good boy.
That's yes, that's what I want. That's exactly what you know,
and I see it. I'm like, it's it, it does put a
smile on my face. And and even like the older
guys, I got these, you know, these older guys.

(43:22):
Well, I should say older guys because they're not that old,
but they're older than me and and, you know.
Younger than me, I bet. Well, well, how old are you?
I don't. Know 46.
Now they're actually a little bit older, but.
Buzz that out, Bonnie, it's not good to be factory.
But you know, to see these guys come in here that have had
injuries or no motivation, just something's happening.
Changing lives, man, changing the direction of.

(43:43):
People, yeah, but you do it likeunintentionally and and and it's
it is that. So that's probably what's gonna
keep me. Fucking cool, man.
There's a kid there's I'm not gonna call him.
There's a kid that I've noticed that's been popping into Empire.
He's he's an old, he's an older kid because he's in the old gold
class. But I feel like he's yeah, he's
parents have dropped him in there to to to give him some

(44:03):
confidence and watching him out in the corner of your you can
see it building me. Yeah, yeah.
But this under assuming kid thatobviously, you know, may have
been given a hard time. I have no idea.
I could be making this up. I could be completely wrong.
But this is just me seeing this kid in there and I've seen his
mum and I think it's his sister.They're that they're and
supporting him sort of thing, but he's you can see man, you

(44:24):
know what I mean? Like build building confidence,
dude, and, and getting stronger and more coordinated and all of
that man and. That's what it, that's what I
mean, I've had my parents come up to me and saying, you know,
pull me aside. And it was when I went to the
school and I did a talk and, andstuff like that.
And because he was getting badlybullied and it's sad.
Like how can a kid get bullied to the point where he's only how

(44:44):
old are you in grade 3, like 8-9?
How old are? You younger man yeah 67777 and
he wanted. To take his own life, you know,
and, and it's powerful. So, and then to get know that I
was there for an hour talking and pulling him aside and giving
him a bit of motivation and, andwhatnot to then him going home
and him wanting to change his life and stuff.
Like the parents came the next day, you know, and, and, and

(45:05):
we're like, thank you so much. And you know, just.
That's got to mute all that other shit, man.
Yeah, you know, like it's just crazy.
And then that's what's going to keep me in.
As much as I said I didn't want to hang around a sport, the the
feeling it has unintentionally is amazing.
You know, like you, you wake up,you're like, fuck, I'm tired
today. But.
Will it just be sad for it to stop there?
And I just think of the Brizzy brothers again, right?

(45:26):
Because again, it started with with his uncle and his dad, you
know what I mean? In in their garage.
And you know, 50 years later, like Sammy, Sammy, he couldn't
fight. He had, was it epilepsy or
something? He had something where he
couldn't actually fight that. That was his dream.
You know what I mean? He's just passionate about
passing on that legacy and thosethat learnings and that
knowledge. So it doesn't die with his dad

(45:47):
and his uncle, correct? Doesn't die with him that that,
that that lives on. Does that make sense?
Yeah, 100% and he like I. Said I love that one.
Of the best in in in the countryfor his boxing.
Brain And that's what the guys at Empire are doing now, right?
So they're 2015, they started and they're doing it their own
way. Do they do Taekwondo as well?
No, upstairs they do jiu jitsu. My kids do it.
Yeah. It's Best Nick Jiu jitsu, man.

(46:07):
What's his name? Murat.
Best Nick man. He's a savage dude.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, kids do it up there, dude.
Jiu jitsu. Yeah.
So that's upstairs and then downstairs is is the boxing.
So yeah, it's good. It's.
Good man and that and the community building down there at
the gym like having all those people behind you when you.
Yeah, that's bad too. You're like.
Out in the ring, yeah, that whenyou fight mate, they get the TV

(46:28):
out there in the. Gym I've got I've got these
little these little kids they'reabsolutely probably my biggest
fans. You know, it's cute, you know,
they, they make sure that the pay per views bored and they buy
my merch and, and stuff like that.
And yeah, it's amazing. You know, like it's having
nothing to then having all thesepeople, you know, flying out.
Even when I fought in Sydney formy last flight, you know, we had

(46:48):
a huge crew come out from the gym and it's mad.
It's, it's, it's amazing. You know, it makes it more, you
know, like you want it more, if that makes sense.
You know, like you're doing it for not only yourself, your
friends, your family, that smallcircle you got other people that
you winning put smiles on their face.
You know when it's, it's an awesome feeling.
You know what? I just.

(47:08):
Feel the crowns are AF. Man, and you know what, I just
realized the AF the first time we met you, man, I feel like
you're, you know, you it was a bit of a chip on your shoulder
and and you were sort of you, you know what I mean?
I really feel like you're way more relaxed.
Yeah. I mean, yeah.
And you do you agree? Like it's sort of just more
chilled about just looking at itall differently.
Do you know what I mean? And I feel like that's, that's

(47:29):
what I want to get out, you know?
Yeah, yeah, this is me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But sometimes. The last time was you as well,
but did did feel like you're carrying some more baggage last
time. It was a bit heavier last time,
yeah. This time you're a bit more
accepting and understanding and yeah, they're winners.
Are so back man, you know. He's world number one last time
as well, man. So yeah, yeah, yeah, and, and
you know, but winners are grinners.
But man, mad respect to you, dude, because you're doing it in

(47:51):
a public eye. And I sit back in awe and I'm
sure because do what you do. Like when I asked the question
right back at the start, how didyou feel in the exact moment
when you lost? The reason I asked that is
because the whole fucking world's watching, dude.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't just lose basketball
on a Monday night. Yeah, you just lost.
You know where You just talked it up.

(48:12):
You said it, You've done it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All the shenanigans in the world's watching and everyone's
having an opinion and all of this stuff, you know what I
mean? And then and you put it all on
the line. So that does that sort of makes.
100% And that's what I mean, I was just, I was gutted, you
know, it was, I was hollowed. Now you've experienced that and
then you've come back and you'rehere.
I feel like, yeah, you're at a different place now where, yeah,

(48:35):
I understand it at a different level and.
Mentally, I just feel like I've,I've, I felt like I always had
to be that character all the time.
And you know, it's like, you know.
What comes heavy? Yeah, it does.
You know, walking around. Pretending.
Pretending all the time is hard,Workman.
Oh yeah, That's why lying's hard.
You know what I mean? We.
Should be acting, you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I just felt like, yeah, likeI'll just chill out, be me and

(48:57):
and the real people will stay those.
Authenticity does win man, so I feel like if you stay authentic
long enough is rough and you keep winning mate, you know?
Yeah, and and and people and, and even my last fight, I mean,
afterwards I had a second to decide, am I going to drill
everybody or am I going to be Michael's Rafa and the promoter?
I knew because he told me probably he's like, I need you

(49:19):
to fire up and go this and go that and start.
And I was like, you know what? I just want to thank everyone
that came out, whether you love or you hate me.
Yeah, whether you love or you hate me, thank you for coming
out. This is what Aussie boxing
needs. It's a tough sport.
We fight. We, we, we, we play, you know,
and and you can't play this sport, you know, so, and even
Tim, despite our hate against each other and and he was there,
yeah, you know, and I gave him props.

(49:40):
He's going into a fight and I wish him all the best.
And, and I do, as a fellow Aussie I wish should make
another Aussie the best, you know?
I hope he beats Thunder. And if you have to fight each
other, So what? It's a sport.
That's what happens to me. And you know what?
I mean, and I hope he goes on because I'm not far behind him
and you know, not not in terms of the ranking.
I'm, I'm the same. It's.
Good that we've got two blokes up there.
Both top ten, both number one inthe country.
You know, both 4 for world titles, going for another.

(50:00):
The other one, I'm about to go from I-1 too, you know.
So if he wins, I win, we unify, let's go, you know.
So I want him to win and any Aussie, I want to win.
But it's shit. Sometimes we see other Aussies
bringing other Aussies down. There's not many of us at that
world level, you know what I mean?
And I just try to put bums on seats.
Eyes on the sport. And like I said, with your love,

(50:21):
you hate me. Well, things are shifting mate,
because Melbourne Victory could have picked anyone to be an
ambassador and, and same as Fox Sport and, and I suppose they
weren't banging down the doors in the past, but they're banging
down the doors now, you know what I mean?
Oh yeah, 100%. So obviously there's a, there's
a, there's a shift and change happening to me.
But winners are grinners, mate. That's not AS.
Long as long as we we keep cashing in those checks and

(50:41):
winning those fights. But we're wrapped, you know,
when I just want to keep, you know, proving that age is just a
number. I'm 33 and.
You're the baby man, 30. Three, I've had 38 profiles.
That's a lot. But you know, like the best is
yet to come. I mean, you know, I've fought
the best, beaten the best and and, you know, I, I feel like,
yeah, I've got way more to give the fun, the fun part starting,
you know. Awesome man.

(51:02):
Well done. Congratulations.
I appreciate it. Awesome.
We're coming to the next fight too.
Following along, we're coming tothe next fight. 100% fuck it.
Oh yeah, we'll fly out the crew.Cans fly out, the whole camera
crew get everyone. Backstage.
That's if I make it through the bloody Zarafa Fight Night in
three weeks time. Hey, is there headgear?
No headgear. What do you want?
No headgear. You want no headgear?
Yeah, because I had. They made me wear headgear last
time and right one minute beforethe fight, I'm gone, man.

(51:24):
I've come all the way from Australia and gonna make me wear
headgear. And they wanted me to wear
headgear. But yeah, I'd rather no
headgear. Gee, sixteens or 10s.
Probably sixteens all. Right, so we're going to go
fucking up. No, I'm not going to fucking 10.
It's going all in. No, it's going all in.
You've gone 16 to 10s, What about fourteens or something?
You know I. Don't even I don't even think
Australia sell fourteens. Yeah.
No, no, no, but six but no head.I would say no headgear.

(51:46):
What would you guys be doing? What would?
He was probably saying headgear because I was going to actually
this is a serious question before and I know PK is looking
to wrap up, but this is a serious question.
I was going to ask when you saidearlier that when you spar and
you take your headgear off, whatdo you think about headgear?
I hate them because I try not. I would prefer even when I'm
sparring, I prefer not to wear it because I've actually gone

(52:08):
and read some stuff and the science, actual science, is
inconclusive about whether you're wearing it, whether it
helps or it doesn't. Do you know what I mean?
And I feel like when you're not wearing it, you're a bit more,
you appreciate that you're not wearing a headgear.
Correct. Well, for me you don't fight in
one. So when you fight we have no
headgear. Made me well, yeah.
Well when we fight we wear 10 ozgloves, no headgear.

(52:29):
So when we spar, we're meant to wear sixteens and headgear.
So when you fight, it's completely different.
It makes no sense. Correct.
And and when I wear headgear, I will win it.
Your vision's not as good. And does it make your head
bigger? You're more of a target.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You get hit more. So like, if you're pulling back,
you've got, yeah, you've got a bigger head, yeah, You know, so
I only started wearing Higgy thelast year.

(52:50):
My whole career. I never wore them, you know.
They never tried to make you. They try as you go into.
They make you wear like and as they should.
You know they. Look, yeah, they some said well,
like, oh, you know, and I was like, I don't wear them man, you
want to spy on me, I don't wear them.
If you want to, I can go home more sweet, you know, whatever,
you know, like when you got world class sparring, you don't
knock it back. It's very hard to to to come by,
you know, So yeah, I just used to go through my whole career

(53:13):
and I mean, you get scuffed a lot more, but what?
About in your gym, have you got a headgear If you spar in
headgear for the kids and. Stuff.
Oh, the yeah, the, the guys, theless experienced guys, I do just
because not because of the headgear, just because they're
generally not as experienced in,you know, head clashes and
whatnot or an elbow or something, anything.
Yeah, you know, they, they don'twant to get cut and, you know,
getting stitches and whatnot or getting hurt or knocked out or

(53:34):
whatever. But yeah, I'm I agree, I think
headgear. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So no headgear. 3 weeks, game on.
Done 16 sixteens and the new good.
The new Hey, hang on, did you say there's gonna be 13 rounds?
Belt or trophy? There's there's a big one.
There's a big one for you. I'm going.
It's got time. 13 rounds champion.
Oh dude. And we got shitty runners up

(53:54):
ones if you want too. No.
Only for you, though. Just for you, right?
I'm in man, I'm in. Let's go.
I'm gonna win the the first the inaugural 13 rounds championship
A. 100% Let's go first of many. Bangs.
There are a few white classes, isn't.
There, Yeah, there is. We've got up to yeah,
heavyweights. There's got one guy who, again,
unbelievable, walked in at, I think 140.

(54:15):
Yeah, His dad's a yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was funny because when he stood on the.
I've never actually. What was the doubt weighed
someone that heavy after a show,you know, it starts back at 0
again and you're gonna add it on.
Yeah, no shit and. He come in what was dunks, 140
something. Oh really?
1:45? So when he jumped on, I'm like
Ben, it says 40 kilos. Yeah, but it's after 110, it
goes back to 1020 again. So it goes around.

(54:37):
You got to clock it. Yeah, yeah, you got to add it
up. So you got to, you got to do a
bit of math. And so what's it?
And you said he's got down to something.
He's down to 132 in like the space of what, 3 weeks?
Yeah, 2 1/2 weeks. He's already lost 1012.
That's. Awesome.
Let's go, Zarath. Well done man, and thanks again
for coming on and well done for everything you're doing and I.
Appreciate it man, you guys. Looking forward to heading to

(54:58):
the gym. Yeah, legend.
Thank you to you as well, Jase man.
And Zarath, mate, let's do it. Let's fucking go.
World title, brother. Let's do it.
Let's go look forward to watching.
See you at the top. People be part of a winning
team. People can find a better version
of themselves if they choose you.
Just need to go start some. Shit action is all that matters.

(55:18):
Be a man of your word. Think I look back now and I'm
like, well, that took some guts.We can't.
We can't. We can't.
See you at the top. New episode every Wednesday.