One Moment Changed Everything. Now He Fights Trafficking

James Bartle was on a surf trip in Southeast Asia when everything changed.

He saw a child being trafficked right in front of him, and it hit so hard that he knew he’d never go back to life as normal. What came next is one of the most powerful stories we’ve ever had on the podcast.

He came home, backed himself, and built Outland Denim, a global fashion brand created to fight trafficking and give survivors a way forward.

This episode isn’t about building a brand.

It’s about stepping into something bigger than yourself and using everything you’ve got to fight back.

• From surfboards to safe houses
• From denim to impact

Full episode live now: this one will stay with you

00:00: Intro

00:59: Powered by Little Fish

02:15: Growing Up

04:27: 'Taken' Changed His Life

06:19: Starting a Mission-Driven Career

09:00: The Harsh Reality of Human Trafficking

11:19: Yep… It’s Happening in Australia Too

14:44: Why He Started Outland Denim

20:14: Turning Jeans Into Jobs

23:23: Teach a Man to Fish

25:44: The Dark Side of Fast Fashion

27:42: Building an Ethical Supply Chain

30:03: Leonardo DiCaprio Wouldn’t Wear Any Other Jeans

38:47: The Moment He Nearly Lost It All

43:22: What's Next?

48:48: $95 Changed Generations

53:21: Outro

📺 Prefer video? ⁠⁠⁠Watch it on ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠

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📣 Powered by: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Little Fish Property

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Went to a place called Pattaya. They said sex capital of the
world. You know, I'll never forget I
saw a line up of girls ahead andI could see one looked really
young and she looked very clearly scared and intimidated.
And gosh, she could be 12 or 13 years old.
And you know, at that moment I just remember seeing her scared
little face. I just want to be a part of a

(00:21):
solution. And that's where it all started.
And this product is a thing thatactivates a cycle of freedom for
their makers. The brand actually sort of ran
away and morphed into what it istoday, which is actually
something that's become a reallypremium brand that's selling in
the best retailers across the globe.
We were getting amazing support from celebrities and.
Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pitt, Meghan Markle.

(00:44):
Only like the most famous people.
On the planet just incredible, you know to see how that was
happening and that was again because of the why Leonardo
DiCaprio is getting ready to be shot for Once Upon a time in
Hollywood and he says if there'sa denim in the shoot, it needs
to be Outland denim and I just. Welcome to the Little Fish
podcast, bringing you extraordinary stories to inspire

(01:04):
big moves. If you're planning a knockdown,
rebuild, dual occupancy or townhouse project, don't risk
getting it wrong. At Little Fish, we manage the
entire process. We get it done faster, cheaper
and stress free. Scan the QR code or visit
littlefishproperty.com dot AU links in the description.

(01:26):
Let's get into it. Welcome back to Australia's
number one podcast about Little Fish Should we speak to the big
fish about town each and every week and mate pumped for the
guests we've got today there's a.
These are the ones extraordinarystories.
These are the ones we love. We like to unpack how they
think, yeah, why they make thesedecisions and how we get there
and do. Strap in for an extraordinary
story, Benny. Yeah, let's do it.

(01:47):
James, thanks for joining us. Thank you guys, stoked to be
here. Love it some name James.
I've got a name. Yeah, absolutely.
James doing the research, It's, it's, it's amazing and it, and
it cuts through, you know, Bennysaid before the pod.
Plenty of successful businesses out there.
You've done it different, which is super motivating.

(02:09):
Where did it start for you? What sort of kid were you we
always into? Were we always going to start
something cool? Yeah.
Look, well, I spent most of my growing up years out in central
QLD, a place called Longridge. And so I always had this idea
that I'd end up being a cowboy. And I probably couldn't be
farther from it today. But, you know, I had most

(02:31):
incredible opportunities as a asa young kid out there racing
motocross and, you know, spending our weekends out in the
Bush. And, you know, eventually that
led to the opportunity to race and have a proper go at racing
motocross and try and make a career from that.
And when I was, I think about 17or 18, I, I left out there to

(02:51):
move closer, to be able to pursue that as a, as a career.
And, you know, that taught me a lot and prepared me a lot for
what I was going to encounter and what I didn't know I was
going to encounter in business. You're right.
So the motocross taught you a lot about sort of the challenges
you might face and all and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, just a lot of it taught mea lot about, you know,
controlling your mind. You know, when, when in when I

(03:14):
got frustrated with not earning a living from motocross, I went
to freestyle motocross because you could earn, you could earn
money from it. And, you know, it felt like
there was greater purpose to doing that.
But I remember learning to do the backflip and that was the
probably the biggest thing that I'd had to get my head around
and try and I guess control the fear that was within me.

(03:38):
You know, I knew I wanted it. I knew I was going to do
whatever it took to get it. But you know, you can be
overcome with this, this fear that cripples you and makes you
make bad, bad choices, you know,And so I use that all the time.
I often think back to riding towards that ramp for the first
few times, knowing that you knowit could be the end today.
Fuck, yeah. We've, we've, we've, we've
actually Cam. Well, that's what I say.

(03:58):
We had Cam Sinclair on. The board.
Amazing. I mean broke his back right
doing the double and then the crazy part about that story is
obviously came back go into the X Games and then stuck it and
won the goal. Yeah, amazing story.
He's a he's a total legend. Yeah.
So, yeah, so you come, you get into business, you know, amazing

(04:19):
clothing label that you've created, amazing purpose.
How did that come about? Yeah, look, we were on the Gold
Coast and my wife, myself and and our friends were off to the
movies. One night we went to watch the
Liam Neeson film Taken 1. Of the best movies ever.
It is. And, you know, like, I didn't
know anything about human trafficking at that point in
time. And remember watching the film

(04:40):
and this script came up and saidthat these things really still
happen. And, you know, for those who
haven't watched the film, it's, you know, Liam Neeson, the hero
of the story's daughter and her friend travelling through
Europe. Fictional film, but they're
abducted and sold into the sex industry.
And you know, I just remember leaving that night just being
infuriated. And I, I was.
How? How old were you, do you reckon?

(05:01):
I got early 20s probably yeah, Ithink it was in 2008.
And so we're walking along and Iwas saying to my friend that,
you know, this is this is insane.
We we need to do something aboutthis.
If this really exists, we need to make enough money and hire
SAS guys to go and kill these guys or.
Something sounds like a plan. I like that.

(05:21):
We need to be involved in this and my wife pops up from behind
and says that, you know, I don'thave the same combat skills as
Liam Neeson. We need to find a different way.
And really, that's where it all began.
That is a crazy because. You know what, Taken?
I was probably, yeah. Scary men.
I don't reckon I was under the bed.
Men remember when under the bed is one of the scariest.
Things makes you feel stuff thatwhen you go there and you think

(05:43):
about someone that you might know that it might happen to
them or kids, you've, you know, all that sort of stuff.
It's yeah, yeah. It's a powerful movie.
But let's marinate there for a second, right?
Because that's not normal. Like I watched the movie, I
probably read that and I just rolled on with me day.
Do you know what I mean? So what do you think it was
about you? What do you think?
Yeah. Was it the influence of growing

(06:04):
up? But what was it that made you
fucking stop and think that you were the person that could do
something about this kind of, yeah, sex trafficking or
whatever that you know? Yeah, movie.
Look, I mean, that's where the seed was planted, I guess.
You know, I was raised by two parents that always had us
getting out of a bed for a stranger or, you know, like
that. I was just raised to know that

(06:25):
our life was meant to be bigger than ourselves.
And I'd also always struggled with, even with racing as a, you
know, what's the, what's really the purpose to it?
What, what good does it leave behind?
And that's just something that'salways been in me.
It's like I'm not motivated to just to work to build my empire.
You know, I, I want there to be a legacy bigger than that.
And I don't know why that's there, but that's just always

(06:46):
been there for me. It wasn't until a couple of
years later that it actually kicked off.
I was doing a freestyle motocross show and there was
some ambassadors at the show looking for sorry, there was
some representatives of an NGO that were specialising in the
rescue and identification of young women that were trafficked
and sold into the sex industry. So they will, they're looking

(07:07):
for ambassadors and gave me the opportunity with others to go
and see what it looked like on the ground.
And so it wasn't until I saw. That so the seed was yeah and
and then this has happened how long after what a.
Few years after, yeah, just a only a couple of years later.
And yeah, it was, yeah, it was just a game changer.

(07:27):
Changed everything about my life.
And you just stuck the hand up straight away.
And so let's let's, you know, bean ambassador and learn more
about it. That's right.
It was just to go and see, you know, put boots on the ground
and I had no real desire to go. We travelled into Thailand and
we landed in Bangkok, went to a place called Taya.
They said sex capital of the world at the time is what they

(07:47):
were telling us. And I remember landing and
walking through the area and thinking, oh, it's not that big
a deal. You know, like everybody seems
to be happy. I don't know why it was
dramatized so much for for us toget us there.
And, you know, you're thinking that they just want your money.
They want you to donate or. So this is walking through the
through the streets. The red light.
District, Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
And I remember saying to the Australian director of the NGO

(08:10):
that had taken us that, you know, this doesn't seem that
bad. And he said, oh, James, I'll
take you further. And he took me out and he took
me around into a different area.And you know, I'll never forget
I saw a line up of girls ahead and I can see one looked really
young. And as we got there, she looked
very clearly scared and intimidated.
And I asked him, I said, how oldis she?
And he's like, oh, she could be 12 or 13 years old.

(08:31):
And you know, that moment, I just remember seeing her scared
little face and just wondering where her dad was, you know, who
was coming for her. And I had two nieces on my own
at the time. And I just remember thinking I'd
die for my nieces. And this poor little girl is
stuck out here because of whatever reason.
And, you know, just to understand that there's so many
of them out there. There's over 50 million enslaved

(08:52):
people on the planet today. And.
Is it like now, today? Right now, yeah.
And so where? Where?
Been from yeah, like what? Like, you know what I mean?
Like. Yeah.
Well, look, it's it, unfortunately it's, it's
underpinned by poverty. So people are born into really,
you know, challenging economic environment.
They're the areas that they they.
Target the vulnerable. That's right, yeah.

(09:14):
And a lot of the time, it's tricking people into it so they
see an ad. You can have a job to be able
to, you know, make beds at a hotel and they travel somewhere.
They take their passports, travel documents, and then
they're enslaved. And, you know, there's lots of,
lots of variations of how well that happens, but it's a, it's a
really scary world. So how deep?
Yeah, so how deep. So once you see that, you can't

(09:36):
Unsee it. Exactly.
Exactly. And I can imagine I'd like to
think that I would affect me in a similar way.
U2 PK So where do you go from there?
How deep does that the curiositygoes from there.
Must you must have been even more angry and.
You, you know, they're the moments where you want to be the
Liam niece and you want to run in, you want to kick, you want
to kick the door down. Yeah, because are you sitting
there going? Well, I'll fuck.

(09:57):
Go get her right down, man. Fuck you.
Why? Why are you telling me she's
fucking 12? Because I'm sitting here going.
All right, we all know she's fucking 12.
Let's go get. Her there?
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and if there's a
young girl that you've spotted at the front, then, you know,
this is quite some time ago. There's going to be more in the
back. And So what they said was, you
know, the address is taken down and then that's put into the NGO

(10:17):
and then they start to do some investigations with undercover
guys that go out and pretend to,you know, be a be a patron of
the of the facility. And yeah.
And unfortunately, you know, that's, that's happening even
here in Australia. You know this is a, this is a
real. Thing stop it yeah, it's for
real every. Single corner of the globe,

(10:39):
enslaved people are enslaved. And so it could be domestic
servitude. They'll be a slave, which would
be a cleaner in someone's house.You know, it's happening
everywhere here in Brisbane, yeah.
And how do we, why are we not talking about it?
Look, because I'm Gobsmack. I don't even know what to say.
Do you know what I mean? Because.
And that's why we're so excited to have you on and shout out
Daniel Flynn, who who suggested.That he knows.

(11:00):
He knows when he knows what's going on.
Yeah, he's the only. You know what I mean.
He suggested one guest man. But yeah, like, yeah, it's,
it's, it's. So how do you know that it's
happening, say, here in Brisbane?
And does the government know? And like, you know what I mean?
Like what's going on? Like how can it be happening in
Australia where there's 2825 million people or whatever?
Like how? Yeah, look, I mean, it's

(11:21):
unfortunately quite easy becauseit's just a game.
People are tricked into, you know, going to take a job and
then their travel documents are taken and then they're enslaved
there. And especially when you're
talking about poor countries with people from poor families,
you know, they're desperate. And it's that vulnerability that
is probably one of the greatest contributors to placing these
people in these positions as so on the wire.

(11:42):
And think about it when you're hand to mouth and we've all
probably had moments, you guys are in your own business where
it's eating rice, you know, we we're broke.
We're it's really hard to make good decisions when you're
worried about just paying the next bill or getting food for
your family, you know? Your size is down here.
Absolutely. And these people are faced with
that on a daily basis. So when they're given an
opportunity, they'll take the risk, you know, And there's

(12:05):
obviously there's a lot more gruesome stories than that too.
That's the nicest way that it all happens, but it gets a lot
worse. So are these, let's say in
Australia for example, are thesethese kids or these people, are
they citizens or are they known to be here or are they off the
radar? They've got them in here taking
their passports and shit and no one even knows they're here.

(12:26):
Or do they know they're here? But does that make sense?
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, look, there'd be,
there'd be all kinds of cases. Both.
Yeah, there'd be so many different kinds of cases,
underage marriage, all sorts of things that are that are
happening and placing people into what?
They'd then be classified as someone who's enslaved.
Yeah, yeah. So, so you've gone over there,
you're an ambassador, you're on a couple of your buddies or

(12:48):
ambassadors. Where does it?
Where does it go from there? Yeah.
Well, look, we went from Thailand across to Cambodia and,
you know, when I landed in Cambodia, just seeing the
poverty was so much more of it, You know, the genocide that had
gone on 40 odd years earlier andthe devastation that that had
left, let alone, you know, the Vietnamese war and landmines and

(13:08):
the issues that we're having there.
And you, you, you know, you're seeing lots of people with, you
know, parts of their limbs missing.
And our tuk tuk driver was actually somebody he had half a
hand. And, you know, you start to meet
these people and you're learningabout the things that they're
facing on a daily basis. And it's really confronting to
go, man, I come from a country where I have welfare to fall
back on. You know, these people don't

(13:29):
have anything to fall back on. And the country's rebuilding
itself and it's going to take a long time.
And I just want to be a part of a solution.
And so before I left that trip, I'd committed to the NGO I'd
gone with that I wanted to employ a couple of these these
ladies to learn a new skill. And and that's where it all
started. Did you have a business then at

(13:50):
that point so you so you were like I'm going to employ that so
I just need to invent a businesscome.
Up now I need to go start. This is wild.
Exactly. That's exactly what happened.
It was, you know, I had a, I'd been getting calls to do, you
know, welding jobs and that all started by building ramps to.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At the back. Yeah.
You're like a handy welder. Exactly.

(14:11):
And so I just started getting these calls from people to build
things for people. And so that turned into a
business and I used that to fundthese things and it just grew
from there. But yeah, the the brand Outland
Denim didn't launch until the end of 2016.
And it took a lot of, well, really six years of working in
this model and trying to perfectthe model, which is still not
perfect, to be able to say that this product is a thing that

(14:34):
activates a cycle of freedom fortheir makers.
And you know that there was somegrueling, grueling years within
that six year period. Why was it?
Why was it denim? I think it sounded like your Why
was. I just want to teach you a skill
so you can fend for yourself andbreak this cycle somewhere.
Teach a man to fish. Exactly.
Yeah. Teach a man to fish.

(14:55):
But I mean, I, like I said earlier, I wanted to be a
cowboy. That was my.
That's what I thought I'd say I'd love.
This is the closest thing I could get.
To Yeah, yeah, for real. Yeah, just James.
Because you're a James. Guy I just I just love him yeah.
And I just I just think it's oneof those products that just.
It's in everybody's wardrobe. And you know, when you think
about, I'm not sure if it's likethis for you guys, but you know,

(15:16):
certainly for my wife, it was like this.
She had a pair of jeans that sheloved and you know the jeans
that I met her in and I can still remember those jeans and.
Because you haven't for years, don't you like?
Yeah, I. Haven't for years. 6-7 years
you've been rocking around in your jeans.
You are, and it's nearly like they absorb history.
I know that sounds really corny,but they they nearly do that
remind you of moments of your life.

(15:37):
And there's not many garments inyour wardrobe that does that.
Or there's not many that you don't throw out as well.
You know what I mean? But.
Today. Yeah, like a gene.
If you think about your wardrobe, there's always like
3-4 pairs that you haven't thrown out but you know you're
not going to. Carry kilometer.
Yeah, because they're carrying those memories.
Yeah, of course. So yeah, that's that's the
reason. And yeah, it wasn't probably a

(15:59):
very smart one, but it's one we're in too deep to get out of
now. Well, yeah, so talk to us about
how that starts. So you've you've got, hey, I
know who all my employees are going to be now.
Is it like all right? I need to figure out how to
design. I feel like it's a bit of a
crutch. You're starting a business is
pretty hard to as it is, you know what I mean?
You said before eating fucking rice.

(16:19):
We know too well about that, right?
So adding a layer of complexity as complex as that, how the fuck
do you make that successful whenit's hard enough just to make a
standard gene? Because.
All your employees, yeah, I'm assuming, don't know how to work
in your business yet. Yeah, that's right.
So yeah, back then it was reallyjust getting people off the

(16:39):
street that, you know, needed a a new start and so.
In Brisbane. No in Cambodia.
Oh yeah, right. So you go over there and you set
up a factory. That's right.
Yep. And so we're, we're based over
there. We've been there now for 12
years and the 1st 6 was really just working out.
Does this thing work? How do you get somebody to get
themselves out of? We should get situations.

(17:01):
Yeah, we. Should fucking go and visit
dude. We would love to have you there,
yeah. That's crazy.
I would that would be a sorry. Yeah, you.
Yeah, right. Imagine that.
Yeah, but yeah, so how do you? So investment and that sort of
stuff, money or like how do you rally the troops to do something
like that? Have you got buddies that are

(17:23):
sort of did? You come from money, man.
Like did you have money or the other?
The welding business, was that Uber successful?
Like yeah, you do this. Nothing was that successful.
It was really it was bootstrapping all the way.
I didn't come from money, but I came, I came from AI guess a
network of people that cared andno one really had a lot of
money, but people did genuinely care and would invest into stuff

(17:47):
like this. And so, you know, it was six
years in. I remember I remember going to a
guy that had donated. So I set up, sorry, as a
not-for-profit for those six years too.
And so everything that was funded into it, nobody could get
a return on. And that was hard and.
Hard to convince people. Yeah, it's a 111 way ticket over
here. Absolutely it is, yeah.
But you know, they, I guess the thing that I learnt during that

(18:10):
period of time was that, you know, there's a lot of great
organizations out there that aretrying to do good.
And I didn't want to compete. Many people the same dollar that
they were competing for, you know, I wanted to be able to
contribute to what they were doing and earn a greater, a
greater amount to be able to do that.
So. To bring more people to the
aisles. Absolutely.
And then but look to go to a full profit business and to

(18:30):
scale it the way we, we have, I needed investors and I'd never
forget, you know, I'd been donated 20 grand from a, from a
builder and I and, and another machinery dealer actually.
And I felt I needed to be able to go to them and get their
blessing to go. I can't keep doing this, this
it's killing my welding business.
Everything I make is going into it.
I need to set this up as a full profit and get investors.

(18:52):
And they were both in great support of it.
And you know, I'll never forget the the, the the builder jumped
on board. He was my first large investor
and got us off the ground. So were these the guys that were
in the non for profit? We're helping you in the non for
profit as well. No, no, these were these.
No, these guys were just from our network.
Yeah. And so like, I've done this, now

(19:13):
we're gonna go and and do it properly so I can be all in.
Probably, yeah. So, yeah, well, no, I wasn't all
in for a while like I still had.I was still operating business
and trying to generate income tocome across to it, employed,
employed a girl full time, and then that grew and grew and
grew. And yeah, it was really just
about getting the investment. You know, through that time you
start to learn the industry as well.

(19:34):
And that's what I'm thinking. Design skews branding because.
You've got these jeans on some pretty famous, famous legs and
butts, you know, so. Is that?
Yeah. And, and, and that's probably
pretty important to them. They're fashion.
And yeah, probably the why has abig help.
As well, that would have to be the why, but the quality is well
people, these guys aren't getting around in shitty jeans,

(19:56):
you know what I mean? Like can wear whatever the fuck
they want. So the question is you obviously
clocked the product. Yeah, right.
How did you do that? How did you figure that out?
You said yourself you just wanted to be a cowboy, so you
weren't a, you know, gene enthusiast or not come from a
long line of gene family. No, no.
So. How did you figure that out?
Through a lot of trial and error, a lot of money, but it's
really been about bringing the right people in and getting the

(20:18):
right advice. And even that's hard because
everybody's got advice. Right.
Everyone thinks they know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sorry. Finding the right agreeing has
been a challenge. But, you know, I'll never forget
I was, you know, one of the realstarts to us really starting to
progress was. My wife said it.
She thought I needed to go to ACEO Summit in New York, where
Ralph Lauren and all these otherindustry icons were going to be

(20:38):
speaking about the future of fashion.
And I remember landing over there reluctantly thinking, I
don't want to spend, you know, 10 grand to get there and get
back and, and do the whole thing.
And I remember walking in and just listening to everything
that was said was literally about what country to go to next
to get cheaper product. And I was just disgusted by it.
But this Canadian guy walks overto me and he he says, oh,

(21:01):
goodnight, mate. And I said, he said, you're from
Australia and said, yeah. And he's like, oh, what are you
doing? I said, I make jeans.
And he grabbed my leg and started feeling the fabric on
the off my jeans. And he goes, Oh well, Yep, let
your investors know you're aboutto lose all their money.
His wife is listening on and shesays James come come and have
lunch with us. We went and had lunch and I told
her what I was trying to accomplish and I could see she

(21:22):
got it and he didn't. Anyway for the next 6 months I
just kept emailing this guy. He was a fashion distributor in
Canada, and he's a family business of 130 years.
And, you know, he just would never reply, never reply, never
reply. But then this one day came back
and he goes, this is really bizarre.
You've just emailed me. My wife just had a dream about
you. It was an appropriate dream, I,

(21:44):
I presume. And yeah, he said, all right,
grab your jeans and come over. And so I jumped on a plane and
flew over to Toronto. And I landed there and he said,
I'm going to take a big risk on you, James.
I'm going to put you in front ofthe three best retailers in
Canada and see what they say. And we walked into the first
showroom and it was with a retailer called Harry Rosen,
arguably one of the best men's retailers in the world.

(22:06):
Their customers walk in and might drop 20 or 30 grand at a
time because they just have beautiful quality products and
people go there to be dressed well.
And yeah, these two ladies walked in the buyers and they're
like, all right, we'll give you 20 minutes, put your stuff on
the table. And an hour and a half later,
we're still there. And they're in tears.
And they're saying, right, we'regoing to help you get this set.
We're going to help you get. There because I love the story

(22:27):
as well. I love.
The story, our product wasn't there yet, but our story was
there. And so it really showed me
something that day that, you know, if you've got something
that is real, you know, it's authentic, yeah.
Then people will jump on behind you, you know, And then we went
to the next retailer, which is Hot Renfrew and the Western
family owned Hot Renfrew and Selfridges and, and a whole line
of other businesses. And, you know, an hour and a

(22:51):
half after our meeting, that e-mail saying we're going to
support you. And we're still stuck there
today. And you know, like it was again,
just going, you know, our USP, our unique selling point is the
fact that this is real and genuine.
And we can actually prove that by buying this product, you're
going to be able to activate a cycle of freedom for somebody
else. You said that line, you fucking
said that line at the start of the the activate the, the, yeah,

(23:14):
the cycle of freedom. That is a beautiful line, man,
Because that that's real. Yeah, it's real.
Yeah, it's real. And I love that because, you
know, teach a man to fish. Yeah, give him.
You know what I mean? Like you can give a man a fish.
That's it. Teach him to fish and they and
they become self worth and all of that, you know.
And then I think that's the thing.
It's, it's something I didn't realize in the very beginning

(23:36):
was, you know, you've got this bleeding heart and you just want
to go and buy a house for them. You just want to be able to do
whatever you can to help these people.
But what you don't realize at that point in time is that you
actually, you're taking something away from them in
that. And, you know, we had staff.
I mean, if I can tell you one quick story, we had the the very
first girl we ever employed and we were back a number of years
after having given her her job and she was telling us the

(23:58):
impact it had made on her life. And she went on to say that she
had bought built a house for herfamily.
They previously lived under plastic sheet her brothers,
sisters, parents and she'd also bought her sister back from
someone who owned her. You know and you know it.
It feels like a movie. She went and she she had the
courage, she had the confidence,she maybe had a bit.

(24:19):
Of she had nothing, she was. Earning.
And she went and did. It, Yeah, she went and did work.
Yeah, exactly. And so it, you know, just shows
you how powerful this can be. And it was then that she started
to say how she feels she's got dignity back.
And that's the key is that's. The key?
That's right. Yeah, itself.
Because that's what probably gothim.
That's what's got him into maybea bit of problem in in the first
place. No, no, it's not, Not at all.

(24:39):
It's actually they're vulnerablebecause of poverty.
Yeah. It's not that.
It's not their self worth or anything like that.
It's desperation. I'll do whatever.
Happened, yeah. They just get tricked.
It's it's like anything like FOMO, you know, I got ripped off
with fucking crypto once, right?And all it was I moved that
quick, But as soon as I finishedmoving, I realized I've made a
mistake. Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? Because when the upper, you see

(25:00):
an opportunity, if you're waiting for an opportunity,
they're vulnerable. They're desperate for an
opportunity. You see it, you take it, and
once it's in their hand, they go, oh, fuck yeah.
You know what I mean? Made a mistake here.
Like you just grab it that quickbecause you're so vulnerable.
Yeah, it's so easy to happen. Man, but look, there's stories
around all over the world of people being literally abducted.

(25:20):
Like that movie too. Yeah.
Like it's, you know, the, the biggest one now is the scamming
that we're getting. You know, that's people, you
know, and I've heard reports of people being chained to walls
and they've got a quota to hit. So that's they're scamming us,
you know, to try and because they have to hit their quota for
the ones that own them, you know, and so it's really, really
convoluted. That's.
Like, well, yeah, it's game typescenario that.

(25:42):
Well, no, it's, I mean, it's, you'll have the same thing as a,
as a brothel, right? So in some of these poorer
countries, you'll be abducted and sold to the brothel owner
and now they own you and you've got to work there until you pay
off your debt or what you're worth or whatever the scenario
might be. It's the same as scamming.
You'll get sold to the scamming bosses and then you're put into

(26:05):
a place and then they use you togo out and try and scam people.
Like that right Gotcha. So they use so they in call
centers made to do the Amazon scam or whatever.
Sort of thing. Gotcha raw.
Yeah, so really, really scary. So, you know, we're, we're
wanting to, you know, curse the person on the other end of the.
Yeah. The Amazon scheme go fuck you

(26:25):
man. Totally.
But they could be. Change to a wall?
No, it could be. I mean, most of the time, I
think that absolutely that's what's happening.
When you say change to a wall, is that literal or is that?
No, literally that's what reports I've heard of recent
times is they've. It was a one that was exposed.
Yeah, that was people were actually chained in there and.
What, what does the what's, what's the Australian government

(26:46):
like? I feel like the more people that
hear this, and I'm glad we've got you on because we've got a
nice community out there that'llbe.
Ready to go viral? Fuck, I'm ready to go viral too.
Like I don't understand. I feel like our government, if
they, if this is all true, whichis which it is, you know what I
mean? Why isn't why aren't we fucking
as a Aussies? You know, it's just Aussies,
Like that's what we do. We don't, we don't, we don't

(27:07):
stand for that shit, do you knowwhat I mean?
We're a small country. I can understand when you've got
200 million in America or in Japan or all these other
countries where there's millionsand millions of people that can
slip through the cracks. Yeah.
Yeah. Only fucking 28 million of us,
man. So how's it going on?
You know what I mean? Well, it's, it's probably
impossible for it to not go on anywhere.
And, you know, unfortunately, you know, it's the decisions

(27:28):
that we make in our lives, our purchasing that really underpin
these things. You know, like we've got a
culture. If we speak to fashion, you
know, it's we've got a culture here in this country where we
want more for less all the time.And actually what that does is
that drives these kinds of problems because they can't
afford to pay. There just isn't the margin in a
product to be able to pay everybody what they deserve all

(27:49):
the way through the supply chain.
And so we we say Australians, we're against it.
We are, but we're so unaware of what we're contributing to the
actual problem. I.
Think it would like it's an education.
Piece it is in. This piece because if.
Yeah, if that said exactly what we're saying, yeah, like I'm not
even going to ask the price of the jeans after you go through

(28:09):
that. Yeah, yeah.
You know. Education and eye opener.
You know what? I.
Mean the jeans are a second partbut.
It's getting getting it out there, isn't it, making people
feel it. It is, but at the end of the day
too, if your product doesn't stand up, people should buy it
either. You know, so they'll.
Probably buy it once and. Maybe that's a donation, yeah.
Yeah. That's a donation, correct?
On the brand. Yeah.
Talk to us about that. How did you, how did you land

(28:30):
there? What does it mean?
Did it have a meaning or? Yeah.
Well, again, it probably speaks back to what I wanted it to be.
About some feeling, Cowboys. And I had this idea that it was
going to be this I. Seriously wanted to be a cowboy.
Yeah, I'd love to. I still would like.
To be, you know. Yeah, no, it, it was, I guess
speaking to what I wanted to be was like this urbanized idea of

(28:51):
a cowboy. So it's, you know, like we're
all inspired by like aspects of what that lifestyle could look
like. And how do you bring that into,
you know, someone who's, you know, living, living in Byron or
Bondi or, you know, Melbourne orwherever you are, you know, and
how does that resonate? But, you know, I was so naive as
to the, how a brand was built back then too, that I had no

(29:12):
idea what to do. And so the brand actually sort
of ran away and morphed into what it is today, which is
actually something that's becomereally, which I love because
it's it's it's become a really premium brand that's selling in
the best retailers across the globe.
And it represents what the top of the market can look like in a

(29:34):
product by people whom have gonethrough such trauma.
They're creating these products that are sold in the best
retailers in the world. And I.
Just love that yeah, it's fucking and you've clocked it.
And I think people need to take notice.
Dudes like you and Daniel are, yeah, like, quite literally
changing the game and. So what can you give us some

(29:54):
sort of metrics of where it sits?
How many? How many units?
How many? How many?
How many staff and how, what kind of retention they have,
Yeah. Talk a bit of yeah.
Yeah, yeah, business stuff. Well, look, we so pre COVID we
were, we're growing really quickly and you know, we were
getting amazing support from celebrities and you know, it was

(30:14):
just happening organically. Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pitt,
Meghan Markle. Only like the most famous people
on the planet. Yeah, Meghan Markle, Brad Pitt
has more of them, to my knowledge.
But Leonardo DiCaprio, who did. Meghan Markle.
Yeah. So like, it's just just
incredible, you know, to see howthat was happening.
And that was that was, again, because of the why.

(30:35):
And now I was I was again in NewYork.
I was speaking to the fashion director of Asquire magazine and
he said, James, I didn't even know who you who this brand was
until Leonardo DiCaprio is getting ready to be shot for
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. And he says if it's a denim in
the shoot, it needs to be Outland denim.
And so we got this DM on our Instagram saying, you know, Leon

(30:56):
from his stylist saying we need denim to shoot him in in New
York. And we're like massive scam for
sure. But we sent it anyway and turns
out that it wasn't a scam. And you know, so you know, those
moments again, just because of our why, it wasn't because of
our product at that point, it was really because of our why,
but launching into US and we launched with Nordstrom and
Bloomingdale's and we had three weeks of sales before COVID shut

(31:19):
the world down. And so you know speaking we we'd
scaled out to about 150 solars in Cambodia and then overnight
80% of our business was gone. And I don't know if you're in
your research for this or that we just about went belly up
about a year ago, yeah or just under a year ago.
And you know, like it's been business has been hard ever

(31:39):
since if. It was fucking easy.
Everyone would be doing it. Yeah, that's right.
That's right. You know, and and look to you
know, we're we're so grateful that we've had great supporters
now retailers and. Talk us through that talk.
Yeah. Talk us through because you're
on top of the world. You got all the support.
Like everyone's saying, yes, youget 3 weeks in all these stores

(32:01):
where you probably spend all this time working towards
getting it in and you know the process or the, the, whatever it
might be. And then it's just the rugs
pulled out. Can you talk to us what that
felt like? What was specifically like what,
what, what happened? What you had to let go?
How many? And then where were you mentally
and did you nearly give up? You know what I mean?

(32:21):
Talk us through that, man, because how the fuck do you get
off the canvas from there, man? Yeah, it's hard.
Look, I mean I'm pretty optimistic.
So at in the beginning I thoughtthis won't last long, we'll come
good. We'll we'll keep keep going.
So, you know, we had just employed another, I think it was
46 people as a result of Meghan Markle wearing product.
We just scaled which which and these are these again,

(32:42):
vulnerable people in Cambodia, you know, So when everything was
closing down, you know, we were trying to decide on what was the
right, you know, path to take. Do we do we, we have two
factories? Do we close one and others micro
factories or or keep them both? And I just couldn't bear the
idea of closing 1. You know, we just put these
people on, dangled this carrot, saying there's a better future

(33:04):
for you. I'm going to change your.
We're going to change your life,Yeah.
And oh, sorry, you know, a few months later you're back on the
streets and probably in a worse position.
And there was, you know, the economy was obviously suffering
in Cambodia as it was right around the world as a result of
these closures. And so I just couldn't put them
back out into the world. And so we, we carried them for a
number of years after that with very little work to do, kept

(33:27):
employed doing the educational process that they go through
when they work with us until theeconomy had approved.
And then we, yeah, we, we made the the shift to close one of
the factories. And, you know, that's the
hardest thing I'd had to do to that point.
And I remember flying over to Cambodia and staying in front of
all of our staff and saying, if you want to move to the city
where our larger facility is, you've got a job, but we can't

(33:50):
keep this second facility running.
And yeah, it was, it was one of those things that you just think
you've, you've absolutely failedthese people that are desperate
on it, you know, desperate for this.
But in fact, it turned out to beone of the greatest pieces of
proof that we really needed it was it's fine to employ people
and give them these educational opportunities for them to
develop the skills to be able tothrive and be really

(34:13):
independent. But does it work if they don't
have you? And this was the first time that
I was forced into proving does it work?
And six months later, you know, monitoring the progress of
everybody, everyone was in a in a really good position as a
result of having these additional skills.
And so, you know, I guess that'sgiven us more confidence to push
forward and keep going. And you know, and then I guess

(34:38):
that's also led to us now in trying to operate a much more
efficient and smart business. You know, like it's very easy to
sort of get caught up in the in the throbbing heart for all of
these things. But at the end of the day, we
need to be a really efficient business that creates the best
products because market share, Imean, it's as simple as the
metric of units sold is going tobe bums on seats and bums on

(35:02):
seats. What equals freedom for the
individuals, their families? You know that impact flows.
Right now. It really.
Is your success? Is roofs so important?
It is and but I think, you know,that's, that's the secret sauce.
It's like I don't go home at night and go, this is too hard
because I can't, how can I possibly do that?
You know, and my family and manyaround us, you know, our biggest

(35:23):
investor, you know, he's, he's made incredible sacrifices
through the last four years likeyou'd never see from an
investor. Put everything on the line
because, you know, we go to a board meeting and he'd say we'd
get caught on, you know, a topicof how do we cut costs?
And he'd just pipe up quietly, knowing he's got more to lose
than anybody. And he'd say, but isn't this
about the girls, you know? And yeah, so I'm really lucky

(35:45):
that. Kept the North Star the whole
time so we didn't wave even whenit got tough, no.
No, he's a gangster. Yeah, that's it.
Well, that's what it is. And that's why he's so
successful. They're cut different, you know
what I mean? Absolutely.
They're built different. They're.
Yeah, they're lock in. Yeah.
That this is absolutely mind blowing story.
So take us so a year ago, right?What?

(36:07):
How close did you get and what what turned the ship around?
Yeah, well, a year ago we'd. So during that period where I
closed kept those people employed in Cambodia, I racked
up an Ato debt and. As you do, yeah.
As you do 9% interest of the Ato, OK.
Third business partner. Yeah, exactly.

(36:28):
And yeah, look, we got to a stage where, you know, the the
government wanted all sort of those debts and they started a
certain level and work their waydown.
But they want them called in, you know, and, and the context
of how you got the debt doesn't mean a lot because we were
growing fast. We didn't, we weren't eligible
for a lot of the government support in the beginning as
well. And so it was just a really
tough time where we were just bleeding and yeah, we just

(36:52):
didn't have any more grace that was going to be given to us.
And so the decision was, well, they're coming after you and
thankfully they were our biggestcreditor.
But look, we went into it and I really hoped that we'd be able
to get through it without a whole lot of publicity and that
we'd only have to tell our shareholders.
But unfortunately that, you know, the story broke in the

(37:13):
papers and then that got shared around other papers and you
know, so it just became a reallypublic thing it.
Makes it harder at that point does it because it puts a bit of
a smell on the brand. It was like, yeah, it was, it
was really hard because you're you're reading things, which was
the mistake. You shouldn't read them and you
shouldn't read the comments thatare made on the online stuff.

(37:33):
But you know, it just, it takes your confidence away and you
start to think, Oh my gosh, whathave I done?
Have I LED all these people intosomething that's never going to
be viable? And and this is just going to
make the situation worse for ourstaff in Cambodia.
And so you got to go through allof those and those mind games
and that fear. And that's where the the
original sort of motocross days really kick in for me is going.

(37:57):
I remember riding to the ramp and going I've got to lean back
on this one, but how do I manage?
Motorbike ride is a successor. Jason Daniel, right?
Another motocross and I figured this out today.
It's because of they conquer fear.
Yeah, that's it. They kind of these fuckers that
are going off doing backflips, they're not going to be scared
of anything. I think all of us are scared of

(38:17):
a lot, but. It's but yeah, but you know how
to go cut through it. Yeah, that's right.
It's like OK, how do I manage itand.
Hit the ramp. Yeah, still got to hit it and
actually fears what makes you make mistakes.
And so it's confidence and you know.
Belief. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When he didn't know the double back.
That's right, he had. He messed it up.
Because he wasn't confident. Yeah, yeah.

(38:40):
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And so look, I think that, you
know, managing that and then, you know, there's, there's a lot
of people that were in my circlethat, you know, I think we're
scared too. And so you start to, you start
to probably wear the brunt of a lot of that.
And so you start to feel like a bit of a black sheep and it can
become a little bit lonely. But again, I'm lucky.

(39:00):
I've got some really good peoplearound me, but I don't know how
you do it if you didn't. It was it was a tough time
because obviously none of us want to let people down, and
especially publicly. Like especially can I, can I
just say though, especially someone that gives a fuck at the
level that you give a fuck, right?
Because it's, it's different. There's levels to everything,
you know? I mean, clearly by your actions
and your endeavours, you care ona level deeper than the average

(39:23):
person walking down the street. So it would make sense that it
would affect you severely, but if you feel like you've let them
down? Man, I think there's a
selfishness in you as well. Like it's the injustice side.
So it's like, you know, I mean, how dare you make these comments
about me, like you don't know what I've had to give up for,
for this. Yeah, and I'm and I'm just
trying to do the right thing. Fuck you, man.
Yeah. No, no, absolutely.

(39:44):
But man, like what a great experience on this side of it.
You know, I wouldn't take it back because it learnt it.
Well, it's, it's helped me learnhow to, I guess, get rid of this
idea that it matters what peoplethink of you.
Now, of course it matters and it's going to hurt all of us
what people think of you, but itcan be something that controls
you. Again, this fear thing, the fear

(40:05):
of what people are thinking of you is debilitating.
So big man. And this has given me an
opportunity I didn't, would never have and, you know, put my
hand. And ask for it, yeah, but.
Man, what a great opportunity towalk through it and come out the
other side and just look at myself and my heart and go, am I
doing this for the right reason or am I not?
You know, and look, you're nevergoing to be pure on that.

(40:27):
Trust me. I really want to be successful
this fall. Yeah, your brain still works.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're only human, man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, yeah, that's crazy.
That's crazy. So.
So tell me. So you, you know, you're feeling
it pretty tough. You're closing a factory.
Where? Where are we now?
Yeah, so we closed the factory. We then this Ato thing happens,

(40:53):
you know, calling our creditors,you know, so we've got this, we
have this lawyer in New York. I mean, my gosh, I wish I could
say the name, but what legends like I ring him up and he and he
laughs. I said, mate, I'm, I'm really
sorry, but wait, you're getting dragged into something here
where I mightn't be able to pay you the full amount.
And he's like, really? And I told him about it and he's

(41:14):
like, mate, the fact that you called me, he said usually the
lawyers are the last, no one cares about us.
So I've got a phone call out of it.
I'm OK and we'll keep working with you.
And I had that experience from every one of our creditors
outside the Ato. Well, they've got to keep
working with us. But you know, so like it was
really cool. And I think that just highlights

(41:34):
this whole idea of just trying, no matter how scary it is to
call, just call and have good communication, do good business
with people. That's trust is built.
If you tell them the bad as well.
And and if people trust you, they'll pack you.
Pete, So Pete used to say to me your.
Level of success. Yeah.
Your level of success, you know,can be based or you can

(41:56):
determine it's determined by. There you go.
The amount of uncomfortable conversations you're able.
To have and that's been a good lesson for me because I hate
having uncomfortable conversations, right?
They don't put me, me, me tomatosauce in for me Nuggets at
Maccas. I ain't asking for it.
You know what I mean? I'm not fucking fuckers didn't
give it to me. I ain't going back right?
So, but it is a really, really good lesson to have that you got

(42:18):
to be. And that's one of Pete's
superpowers. He's prepared to have tough
conversations, make tough phone calls and be outside your
comfort zone because that's where the.
Thing is probably if it's for the greater good, like there's a
saying if the Y is powerful enough the power becomes easy.
So like if that Y is there and that Y is strong, like, you
know, sit, sit you in front of anyone.

(42:40):
If it's we got to do it, we got to.
Do it, Yeah. Yeah, and that sounds like
exactly what what you've been running around doing.
Yeah, do it. I mean, there's lots of the time
I don't as well. And you put it off, you put it
off and it just sits on you, doesn't it?
And you know, that's not healthyeither.
No, exactly right. Yeah.
So no, it's, it's about getting it done, having the
conversations and you know, likeI think I've got really, really

(43:00):
incredible stakeholders involvedwith what we do.
So sounds like. It sounds like it.
Yeah. That's yeah, man.
James, what's the what's the next play?
Dodged a couple of bullets. Onwards and upwards.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, where's the?
Yeah, for the brand, for Outland, Yeah.
What's the goal? Some.
More influences lined up. What's the yeah?

(43:21):
What to next? Where's the goals?
Yeah, the goals are, you know, sky high.
I can't see them. They're they're well out of
sight at the moment. But you know, during the the
right before actually the Ato issue, I had the opportunity to
buy our biggest competitor out and so I was already in a tough
position. Who?
Who was that? Nobody denim.
OK. Yeah, Melbourne based, yeah.
And so. Competitor just on the gene

(43:43):
level, Yeah, they sort of. On the no, just on the gene
level, yeah. So they weren't doing yeah,
yeah, right. Yeah, Yep.
And so we, yeah, we managed to buy them and yeah, look, that
was, that was an interesting pinch yourself moment.
Like I've always loved, you know, loved the brand and been
inspired by the brand. So, so we now own both of those
brands and the goal is really just, we've launched Outland

(44:05):
back into the, into the Northernhemisphere a few seasons ago.
We want to take nobody international as well.
Is nobody, is nobody a social play, some kind of social play
behind it? Like is there a story behind it
or is it? Yeah.
Look, I mean the, the owners that it's a 25 year old brand
and the owners set it up and they were giving employment
opportunities in Australia. So they're manufacturing there,

(44:26):
right? They closed their factory and
just after they closed their factory, they were looking for
some for a buyer. And anyway, so we bought it, we
bought their equipment, we sent that to our factory in Cambodia.
And so we're now making making their.
Instantly, bang, you're doing a whole new line.
Yeah. And your crew's doing it in
Cambodia. Yeah.
And we're making for other Australian brands as well.
Yeah. So you know it's.

(44:47):
Yeah, yeah. So that's how you that's that's
another way for you to sort of throw fuel on this fire, right.
You prove the model. Yeah.
Then you can talk to like the out Daniel, Jason Daniel from
LSKD and say, hey, man, I'm fucking doing it.
It works. Yeah.
You can still do what you want to do.
Yeah. But you can get behind this
mission at the same time. That's right.
So yeah, fuck, it's a free hit. Yeah.

(45:07):
And that dudes like Daniel Jr., there's plenty of fucker, Yeah,
you know, I mean, like, the world's full of good people,
Yeah, so. And look, brands are looking for
the opportunity to be able to produce that way.
Because they're starting to realize they can make a
difference because of legends like you and Daniel that fucking
carved the way, man. Yeah.
So we're pretty pumped. We think it's a pretty bright
future. We're we're setting up, you

(45:30):
know, a new fund at the moment so that we can scale.
It's stuff that'll be backed with property.
And so people have security and you know, it's a really exciting
time for us to try. We're just trying to think
differently about how people invest and the risk levels are
associated with investing in these kinds of companies.
Yep. So you're just trying to break
it right down and yeah, bridge the gap.
We have to, you know, because the reality is it's very

(45:51):
difficult to meet someone who doesn't want to be a part of the
solution. It's just that there's a high
risk ratio when you talk about businesses like this fashion to
start with, but then you're talking about, you know, a young
a young business, you know, so Ithink we're six years old now is
from when we launched Outland. Now having both brands, it's
kind of like you're nearly starting again a little bit.

(46:11):
We're bringing warehousing in tomanage ourselves and there's
lots of changes that are happening within internally, but
it's just about continually trying to rethink how it's done
and, and it's OK to try something and it doesn't work
and then shift and try somethingelse, you know, And I think
sometimes you get stuck doing the same thing because you're
scared to change or you, you. Absolutely.

(46:33):
But you've you've got or becausepeople tell you never to give
up. So you get that confused with
like slogging a dead horse. Don't trust me, man.
Don't know all about it. Hey, can I ask because I'm
fucking fair dinkum and I know Ican see Pete's fascinated by
this and we love a good story. There's a story over in
Cambodia. We can go over to the factories
and suss this out. And yeah, man, we would do that.
But you know what I mean? We would, yeah, we would

(46:54):
definitely do that. Yeah.
I'd love to take my kids like wewould do it.
We'd go over, shoot some content, get into the factory
and there'd probably be some of the staff that we could talk to.
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
And we could tell some, you know, we just love an
extraordinary story. And I'm I kind of knew what was
coming today, but not to the level.
Do you know what I mean? Like, I actually kind of
thought, to be honest, I was like, this doesn't really make

(47:17):
sense, man. What's he talking about?
Kidnapping. And you know what I mean?
Like, that didn't feel real, man, Even when you likened it to
the Liam Neeson thing. I'm like, yeah, exactly, man.
It's Hollywood, you know what I mean?
But yeah, it's when you really fucking stop and listen.
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna do that.We are gonna do that.
Well, I promise you. Love to have you guys there.
And, you know, it's when you meet, when you meet the people

(47:38):
and you hear the struggles that they've faced and then the way
that they've rebuilt their livesand the fact that they've done
it themselves. Yeah, you know, you, you can't
help but be inspired by what youlearn.
From them and do they learn English?
Have they got they're over therelearning English as a skill as
well or? Like, I mean, you know, when
they work with us, they get all this healthcare and, you know,
and, and even that the stories that come out of that and the

(48:00):
things that get diagnosed that wouldn't be diagnosed otherwise,
you know, you know, learning about financial literacy.
So then they had a budget and plan for.
Their future they've got. Yeah.
And then, yeah, English is one of the things that they learn.
You know, there's, there's so many educational opportunities
that are provided. And it's not like our tertiary

(48:21):
education that we get to experience here.
It's it's, it is very different,but it makes a lasting impactful
difference in. The generation.
The generation. Yeah, it changes the.
Yeah, it changes the direction of.
It's. Infinite, not just infinite.
It's that individual, is it? We go and PK.
I'm so excited. Yeah, my my wife always asks me
not to tell this story. I tell it every time it's, you

(48:42):
know, it cost us $95 to have this this group come in and
teach our staff about breastfeeding.
And, you know, there was a drug company that went through
Southeast Asia like a long time ago that had a marketing
campaign that their baby formulawas the best thing you could do
for your infant. Unfortunately, you've got lots
of mums hearing this, believing that's what they now have to do.

(49:04):
They're already poor. And what makes it worse is
there's industry polluting waterways.
And so now you're using that water to mix with baby formula
and you're essentially poisoninginfants.
So going from the. Because they think.
Probably nutrient rich substanceon the planet.
Exactly. The worst.
Yeah, exactly right. And education and.

(49:26):
Yeah, well, because of manipulative marketing.
Yeah. And so for $95, we survey
everybody that goes in, does thecourse going in.
They all believe the best thing to do is his baby formula going
out. They all believe it isn't.
Now, $95 meant that that's a generational change, Yeah, for
all of those families. But that will spread.

(49:47):
And so it it actually isn't hard.
To buy that shit as well. Exactly.
Yeah, and they got got it for free, Yeah.
Yeah, crazy. But you know that's marketing,
right? And how you can manipulate?
Those companies that are out there doing this shit should be
shot man, It's fucked up. They have a lot to answer.
For they do, man, they do. And that just goes to show like,
and I think I know the answer tomy thing with the Australian

(50:08):
thing. And how does it happen in
Australia? And it's because underlying up
the very top, there's shit goingon that we just don't know, man.
There's, there's stuff going badactors and bad people and, and
shit. It's all just power and money
and greed and. I think great is probably.
Choosing not to, not to know, ornot to dig around.
Around, No, look, I mean, look, the the government has put in,

(50:29):
you know, there's the Modern Slavery Act now, you know, if
you hit a certain threshold, you've got a report on it.
That's about as far as it's going at the moment, which
doesn't do a lot. It's just reporting on the risk
of modern slavery within the supply chain.
But eventually it'll change. You know, a lot's changing in
Europe. The world is changing.
So. So, you know, we, we from a
opportunistic perspective, we'vegot an amazing opportunity ahead

(50:51):
of us now because the world and especially the fashion industry
is moving and we're in prime seat to be able to say, hey, we
provide a service. Yeah.
You're in the prime seat. That that doesn't just track our
supply chain. It's actually all about actually
we think about our supply team differently.
We don't try and prove it's clean and there's no issues.
We try and prove there is issues.

(51:11):
And I think it's a different mindset.
And that mindset is probably theonly mindset in my opinion that
will actually do something aboutit.
Because if you're trying to prove it's clean, you can prove
it's clean by getting certifications for everything.
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, right. Oh yeah.
Amazing. Yeah.
Well done, man. Crazy, crazy story.
And yeah, it's, it's genuinely inspiring.
Well, thank you. Yeah, keep going, man.

(51:31):
Like, massive amount of respect.And we're going to keep in touch
because this is the exact sort of thing we like to hitch our
wagon to. So we're coming to Cambodia.
Amazing. I want to see the fucking
factory with my own eyes. Yeah, I want to talk to some of
these people and we'll take our kids.
That's just a little bit of yeah, helps get that little bit
of exposure and awareness and education type thing.
Like I said, to going and then buying them something is it

(51:53):
isn't that shift and you're and you're and you're trailblazing
for these for these other businesses that you know, it's
not their fault. They sort of they've been taught
away and they go to this countryto get their goods and and this
way I do it and I'm just trying to trying to trying to make
money my own way and survive where you're doing both type
things, which is. Proven the concept.
It's, you know, you'll, you'll you'll get a road map for these

(52:16):
other other companies potentially to say, hey, this is
how you do it if you want, Yeah.It's like a white label, right?
It's a white label to say you can fucking do it.
Yeah, you can do it. You not only do it, you can do
it and win. Yeah, Yeah.
And then once you can show that,then as we've said, it's hard to
find people that don't want to help with the solution.
Yeah, that's what they just don't want to risk their lives

(52:36):
to do it, you know what I mean? Challenge with big companies,
too, is, you know, you know, that there's those issues within
your supply chain, and that's the old school PR, you know,
where you got to pretend things are, right.
But I think that today is different.
I think it's about building trust with people.
And when people trust you, they'll use you.
And the way you build trust is to expose everything.
Yeah. And that's been a pretty

(52:56):
confronting thing for all our stakeholders because I'm all
about transparency. And, you know, that does become
uncomfortable at times. Yeah.
Yeah, we're going to. We're going to.
Shout this shit once and all. Yeah, yeah.
Mate, congratulations. Congratulations An.
Amazing chat, really appreciate your time and we'll be following
along closely. Sounds like going to Cambodia.
We'll see you in Cambodia. Amazing guys.

(53:17):
But yeah, well done mate. Congratulations.
Thank you so much. Cheers.
Hey appreciate having me. Awesome.
Anyone that's going to get valueout of that, make sure you share
it. See you at the top, Yoo.
Part of a winning team. People can find a better version
of themselves if they choose you.
Just need to go start some shit action.
Is all that. Matters.
See a man, if you would think, Ilook back now and I'm like,

(53:39):
well, that took some guts. He can't, he can't.
He can't see you at the top.