June 26, 2025 • 44 mins
Nicole Troster, CEO of Courage Labs, shares her journey helping women scale service-based businesses beyond $500,000. We discussed:
• Drawing inspiration from her entrepreneur mother who ran a hospitality business for 34 years after immigrating to Canada
• Developing frameworks to help women scale service-based businesses while avoiding burnout.
• Navigating the tension between career growth and being present for young children.
• Planning for maternity leave as an entrepreneur through stakeholder conversations.
• Shifting from working IN the business to working ON the business to enable scaling.
• Letting go of tasks that aren't your strengths to focus on high-impact priorities.
• Building support systems and having honest conversations about motherhood challenges.
• Creating business systems that provide both time freedom and financial growth.
• Working with clients to create human-centered design for service businesses.
Connect with Nicole on LinkedIn or visit Coeurage Labs to learn more about her coaching programs and services for women entrepreneurs.
If this episode resonated with you, please share it with another mom who needs encouragement. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and connect with me on LinkedIn.
For other episodes and resources, visit our website at https://littlehandsbigplans.co/pages/podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, I'm joined by Nicole Troster, former
leader of Ella, canada's firstwomen-focused business
accelerator.
At York University, nicole hasguided hundreds of women
entrepreneurs towards scalable,service-based business models.
Now she is the CEO of CourageLabs and a strategic coach for
women.
Scaling service-basedbusinesses beyond 500,000.
(00:22):
Service-based businesses beyond$500,000.
Nicole shares her honestjourney from navigating a
post-maternity return to work tolaunching her own company that
empowers women to grow withoutburning out.
We explore the emotionaltension between building a
business and being present athome, how to prepare for
maternity leave as a founder,and what it really takes to
scale without compromising yourtime, your values or your
(00:44):
motherhood.
Nicole also shares wisdom forworkplaces and founders looking
to build cultures that retainand support working moms.
If you're craving both freedomand financial growth, this one
is for you.
Welcome to Little Hands BigPlans the podcast for moms who
want to reimagine work afterkids and build a life where
family comes first, withoutgiving up your dreams.
(01:06):
I'm Amelia and I know firsthandhow much motherhood shifts our
careers, our priorities and ourpace.
But instead of seeing it as asetback, what if we saw it as an
invitation, an opportunity todesign a life with a little more
freedom, a little more presenceand a little more fulfillment.
Each week, we'll have honestconversations with moms who've
(01:29):
shaped their work and businessaround what truly matters.
Whether you're considering acareer pivot, dreaming of a
slower pace or just wonderingwhat's possible, you're in the
right place.
So grab a little something warm, settle in and let's explore
the possibilities together.
I am so excited to hear moreabout your latest adventure.
(01:51):
For people that might not befamiliar with you, can you share
a little bit more about yourjourney to becoming an
entrepreneur and what you weredoing before and what you're up
to now?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, first of all, amelia, thank you so much for
having me here.
I'm really excited to have thisconversation with you.
In terms of becoming anentrepreneur, this is something
that I have wanted for the lastseven years, and it has not been
a straightforward journey, butI'm finally where I want to be,
and it's been a culmination ofyears leading up to this point.
Part of it was that I decidedseven years ago that I wanted to
(02:25):
be, and it's been a culminationof years leading up to this
point.
Part of it was that I decidedseven years ago that I wanted to
be an entrepreneur, that Iwanted to have my own business,
that I wanted to work withentrepreneurs directly, because
I had been working in theinnovation and ecosystem for
something like eight years andin different roles and I just
found that I wasn't able to seethe fruits of my labor.
So I really wanted to work withentrepreneurs directly, and
(02:46):
that's what I've been doing forthe last seven years.
Prior to coming into my businessfull time, I had my business
running part time since 2022.
And really, what I've beendoing for the last five years
was I started an accelerator forwomen entrepreneurs called Ella
at Yspace and designed threenational programs and one
(03:08):
regional program to help wellover 450 women scale their
businesses, and I've taken theproven frameworks that I put
together through Ella and nowthrough my own coaching business
, I'm working with women and I'mhelping those with
service-based businesses scaleto beyond $500,000 in revenue,
(03:29):
using again this provenframework that I've tested and
I've validated with so manyentrepreneurs and just really
excited for the next phase.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And you're also a mother.
Can you take us back to thatseason of becoming a mother and
how it shifted your perspectiveon work and leadership?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, I think I became a mom almost three years
ago and it's something that Ilove Like.
I cannot imagine my life notbeing a mom now that I am a mom,
but it's really gotten methinking about the question of
legacy and what we leave behindfor the world.
And when I think about the workthat I am doing now and the
(04:14):
projects that I'm able to takeon, I'm able to be so much more
intentional with my effort andmy knowledge and my expertise
and really work with eitherindividual women entrepreneurs
or with institutions that arevery centered around the idea of
growth and progress and makingsure that, on one hand, women
(04:38):
are able to be successful and tobuild sustainable businesses
that you know grow, and then, onthe other hand, from an
institutional perspective, thatwe're creating an innovation
ecosystem that is inclusive,especially from the perspective
of women You've shared beforethat.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Purge Labs, which is your business, was inspired by
your mother.
Can you share a little bit moreabout her journey and how she
inspired you to do what you'redoing now?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, such a great question.
So my journey to supportentrepreneurs is absolutely
inspired by my mother.
The earliest ideas that I'veever had about entrepreneurship
came from watching my mother.
My mother was the first femalelawyer at the biggest commercial
bank in Brazil.
She immigrated to Canada andthen her credentials were not
recognized.
(05:27):
She would have had to go to lawschool all over again and
unfortunately, because of familyresponsibilities and a whole
host of other challenges being anewcomer and others, for
example she wasn't able to goback to school.
So she ended up buying abusiness and running that
business small hospitalitybusiness successfully for 34
(05:48):
years.
When I think about that business, if you stood in the reception
of the business, you could seeinto our kitchen and our living
room.
So from a very young age I wasvery aware of the business
transactions that took place andthe way that my mother would
strategize to make sure that shecould meet customer needs
effectively, and so that'ssomething that really marked me
(06:10):
from a young age.
And then I've devoted the last15 years of my career to
supporting entrepreneurs in oneform or another.
And then my work at Ella reallywas dedicated and very
intentional in terms ofsupporting women like my mother,
giving them access to thementorship, giving them access
(06:32):
to the entrepreneurshipeducation and the community to
help them scale their companies.
All help which my mother didn'tnecessarily have when she was
going through herentrepreneurial journey her
entrepreneurial journey.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I love hearing that because, as a mom, I always
think about that and how muchimpact it makes to our kids what
we do and the example thatwe're setting for them in terms
of what they believe is possiblefor themselves.
You've worked with so manydifferent entrepreneurs in so
many different areas.
Was there a moment orexperience where you said this
this is what I want to do?
(07:08):
Or did it develop over timewith working through so many
entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Such a great question .
So I knew I wanted to have myown business.
I think I made the decisionseven years ago and you know I
had worked with a number ofdifferent entrepreneurs before
starting up Ella.
But I was very intentional incoming into Ella because I knew
that I wanted to workspecifically with women
entrepreneurs.
So the experience at Ellaallowed me to really again test
(07:39):
out, experiment with differentframeworks and see what's the
winning mix to help women scaleup their company successfully.
So in working over five yearsand working with well over 450
entrepreneurs through Ella, Iwas able to figure out that
framework.
And now the work that I'm doingis a continuation of that work
(08:00):
and helping to support women inscaling their companies.
And so really it was aculmination over many years and
something that progressed overtime.
But I'm equally as passionate,if not more passionate, about it
today than what I was back then.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
How did you come up with the niche that you have?
I know you focus onservice-based business.
There's scale beyond 500,000.
What led you to choose?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
that.
So for me it was working withso many service-based businesses
throughout all of the programsat Ella.
But it's also the idea thatthroughout my whole career I
have worked in services, so Ireally understand what it takes
to scale a service, what are thenuances and, if you kind of
look at it, services are allabout people and relationships,
(08:49):
and so when we think aboutscaling the business, yes, it's
about bringing more people in,but it's also about how you
position that company to bringin those additional people.
How do you position thatcompany to make sure that the
operations and the processes andthe systems and the tools like
everything's aligned to helpsupport that growth?
(09:12):
So, because it's something thatI have such tremendous
experience in, it was a naturalsegue for me to help women with
service-based businesses,because really I've been living
and breathing that for as longas I can remember.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
It totally makes sense to me as someone that has
admired you from afar for acouple of years now.
I think anyone that gets towork with you is going to be
it's going to gain so much fromhow much experience with so many
different types of businessesyou have.
One thing that I think isunique to women is, once we
(09:51):
become mothers there's thisgiant tension that for me I
didn't really foresee as much, Ithink, as it hit me about
wanting to grow and continuegrowing, and we spend so much
time in our careers beforechildren that it there's that
pull.
(10:11):
But then there's also the pullof my kids are only going to be
little ones.
I don't want to miss anythingabout their childhood, and so
it's a huge transition I havefound.
I was wondering, in yourexperience coaching women
through that transition, howmuch do you think is possible to
plan in advance?
(10:31):
Because for me I just it reallywas a bit of a shock.
I spent a lot of time planning,but because I had never been a
mother, I had no idea until Iwas actually there and then it
was back to the drawing board,despite how much planning I did
do.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think you're right.
I think, yes, there is acertain amount of planning we
can do in advance, but we won'tknow until we get there, and
that's something that Iunderstand well in my own life,
like that push and pull tensionthat you talk about.
But it's also, I think, so,individual to each woman who's
going through her own journey.
I think part of it depends onthe needs of her child or
(11:10):
children.
It also depends on, like, whatis the family structure and how
much support does the woman havewithin the family structure,
and is there support outside ofthe family structure?
All of these things really playinto that dynamic and things
like postpartum depression orpostpartum anxiety and how the
(11:31):
woman deals with having a child.
That's all layering on top tomake it a very complex situation
that maybe, despite our bestefforts to plan for, we can't
fully plan until we'reultimately in it.
That was for sure.
My experience.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Despite that, do you think there are some strategies
for someone that may be tryingto plan right now for that
transition?
What are some things that couldmake it a little bit easier?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
That's such a great question, amelia.
I think part of it is makingsure that you have conversations
ahead of time.
I think I had an understandingof what my support system was
going to be and then in realityended up being very, completely
different.
My partner and I, we are prettymuch on our own in terms of
(12:20):
being our own support network.
Unfortunately, we don't havefamily that is involved to a
large extent, that can share inthe childcare responsibilities,
for example.
We're lucky enough to havechildcare for our child, so that
is certainly a huge help, but Ithink, anything beyond my
(12:41):
partner, myself and thechildcare we don't have much
support beyond that, so it'sbeen very difficult from that
perspective.
So having conversations up frontwith yourself, with your
partner, if you have a partner,with the people who are in your
inner circle, if there arerelationships beyond the inner
(13:01):
circle from a communityperspective, having those
conversations and trying to getan understanding of what the
support may or may not look likeafter can certainly help, and
just educating yourself ondifferent supports within the
community, I think, is alsoimportant, because there are
community programs, for example,that I drew on when my child
(13:24):
was about five months old, andpart of it was free programming
paid for by the government, thatwe were able to access and I
used that as a way to socializemy child.
For me to start socializingagain, I thought that it was
very helpful.
So I think doing some research,having those conversations, all
of that is incredibly important.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, those are great tips.
And when it comes to scaling tobeyond 500,000, I think you
know it takes a lot and I'venoticed a difference between.
It seems that sometimes there'speople, like entrepreneurs,
that experience a lot of burnoutand there's some that seem to
do it with a little bit moreease.
(14:04):
In your experience, what aresome things that differentiate
those two?
What kind of things can peopleand mothers do, especially
because I know a lot of thechildcare responsibilities often
do fall on mothers?
What are some differencebetween those two opposite?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I think that's another great question and I
think part of the answer lies inthe fact that, as women, we
always have a lot on our platesbut we also take on a lot, so
it's easy to feel overwhelmedand to be wearing so many hats
and being not sure, like, whatstep to take next.
(14:43):
So there's a certain confusionor fog that results because of
this and I think for some people, when they sit down and they
clarify what they want to focuson and realizing that we can't
focus on everything within thebusiness, like we have to think
about two or three strategicareas of focus, focus so that we
(15:05):
can put more of ourselves intothose areas of focus and, like
really show up, as opposed todoing eight different things and
not really showing up for anyof it.
I think that's part of it.
So many of the women that Iwork with, part of the work that
we do together is to reallyprioritize, like what needs to
happen now, what can happen inthree months and six months, in
(15:26):
order for all of this to be asuccess, and I think I talk
about the idea of scaling tobeyond 500k.
But that does take time and ittakes clarity and intentionality
and systems and processes andprocedures, and it takes a lot
of things to be able to getthere.
But part of the work that I dowith my clients is mapping that
(15:48):
all out, getting the clarity,getting the confidence and
knowing exactly what steps totake in what order, and I find
that makes a world of difference.
So being able to ask for thathelp, to seek out those
resources, I think that's reallyultimately the difference
between the confusion and theclarity.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
There's also the moms that are or were entrepreneurs
and choose to step back for aseason but want to be strategic
about being able to come backinto entrepreneurship.
Do you think there's anystrategies that a mother in that
situation might be able to putin place to make coming back a
(16:32):
little bit easier?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So much like I talked about conversations in the
personal realm in terms of thesupport circle.
I think having conversationsearly on, especially if you have
employees or contractors, likehaving conversations to see, for
example, is there an appetiteto step in while you step away
for a season?
Are there other business owners, for example, that you could
work with on a referral basiswhile you're away and then work
(16:56):
with the clients when you comeback?
Are there other ways aboutgetting what you need from a
work perspective or careerperspective or a business
perspective, to ensure that youcan comfortably take the time
and then come back to thebusiness?
And then, ultimately also, itwould require conversations with
customers too, right, likeletting them know that I'm
(17:20):
preparing for this, this is howthings are going to unfold while
I'm away and then, when I comeback, this is how things will
unfold from that perspective,and making sure that you close
the loop on all of that so thatyou know everybody's aware of
what's going to happen.
I think, again, it comes downto those key conversations with
the key stakeholder groups.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Those are really good strategies.
Stakeholder groups those arereally good strategies.
And I think they also apply toeven just planning for maternity
leave, which is a completelydifferent ballgame than when
you're employed, because even ifyou're going to come back,
there's still going to be aperiod of time, whether it's
four weeks or eight weeks, whereyou're not going to be
available.
And having gone through withmaternity leave and planning in
(18:05):
such a high leadership positionfor yourself, is there anything
that, looking back on, you wishyou had known, or that you wish
you had done differently?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I didn't know what to expect coming into it, so it
would have been hard for me toplan realistically.
I think one of the things thatI would have liked coming out of
it would have been thoseconversations that I talked
about, and I don't think thoseconversations were necessarily
had.
I think, for transparency andall the rest of it, it's really
(18:36):
important to have thoseconversations.
So that's the one thing that Iwould have hoped for, in all
honesty, in terms of because Iknow you, you also advise
companies that are trying to bemore inclusive.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
How can a workplace shift or have policies that aim
at retaining mothers, especiallybecause, for example, I
remember in the law firm worldpeople would say that some law
firms were so hesitant to havecertain policies because, in
(19:11):
their experience, first-timemoms don't know what to expect,
which I think is true you can'timagine until you're there but
then that it ultimately a lotleave anyways.
But I personally have theopinion that it's because it's
not easy to come back.
And so the companies that aredoing a great job that you've
worked with at retaining mothersand leadership positions, what
(19:35):
are they doing differently tocreate that space and
flexibility?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I think you don't necessarily have to come up with
a company-wide policy.
I think it's about havingconversations on an individual
basis to understand, like, whatare the needs of that individual
?
And, again, part of what feedsinto what that individual needs
is whether or not they haveaccess to a support system.
It's very individual.
Every single woman will have aslightly different situation and
(20:06):
, from that perspective, only byhaving those conversations can
you really start to understandwhat the needs are and how you
might be able to support it.
I think, on a whole, mostcompanies aren't doing a good
enough job of providing theflexibility that parents in
general need in order to do agood job at work but also do
(20:30):
good jobs as parents.
Accommodation, I think theemployer gets like the win-win
situation because they get toretain top talent and the parent
gets more flexibility to dowhat they need to do, both as a
professional or a business ownerand as a parent.
(20:52):
So, again, I think companiesreally need to think about how
to provide flexibility and Ithink, if nothing else, the
COVID-19 pandemic has taught usthat.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, I would agree for sure.
I think that was the number onething that I, even in my
business, craved.
Going back from maternity leaveis just complete flexibility to
try to adjust to both roles,and we've talked a lot about how
you help women scale beyond500,000.
(21:28):
What are some of the key things.
If that's a goal somebody hasbut wants to avoid burnout,
wants to avoid a lot of themistakes that you see, how does
someone that wants to get thereget started?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Great question and I think there's a couple of things
.
One a lot of times we, as women, try to go out alone and
building a business, scaling abusiness, especially beyond the
$500,000 mark, is not easy, sowe have to ask for help.
(22:04):
If you want to avoid burnoutand overwhelm, you have to ask
for help.
You have to be clear about thesteps that you are going to take
in order to get from where youare to where you want to be, and
you may work with a coach toget there.
You may work with a communityto get there.
(22:25):
You may be involved, forexample, in masterminds, or you
may have what they call businessbesties, for example, that you
meet with frequently to gainsome clarity, gain some
confidence about how you'regoing to get from where you are
to where you want to go.
But I think, first and foremost, it's about having that clarity
on like, what are the stepsthat you're going to take to get
(22:47):
there?
And I think part of thatclarity is being very clear on
what you're going to prioritize.
As I talked about before a lotof times, especially
solopreneurs will takeeverything on.
They're trying to do businessdevelopment, social media
marketing.
They're trying to execute onthe client work, they're doing
(23:09):
the bookkeeping and then they'redoing a whole host of other
tasks within the business, andit's virtually impossible to do
everything well.
So that's where, again, beingsuper focused on what are the
things that only I can do andwhat are the things that I can
either delegate, outsource,refer out or what have you, to
make sure that I can focus onthe priorities that only I can
(23:32):
do within the business.
So I think those are probablythe two key things that would
help somebody who is intendingon scaling to get there.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
One of the things that you have mentioned is the
letting go part, the asking forhelp.
What are a couple of areas ofresistance that you see often
that founders have a difficulttime letting go of but need?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
to do.
It's funny because I canremember a number of different
entrepreneurs that I've workedwith and there is resistance
sometimes because theentrepreneur may feel that they
can do it better than anybodyelse.
So if there are things that youexcel at, then a lot of those
may be the things that you wantto keep.
(24:21):
And if it's something that like, for example, figuring out how
to execute on paid ads issomething that you're going to
have to take 21 days to figureout how to execute on, then
maybe you should be thinkingabout again outsourcing that to
somebody else who already hasthe expertise, the experience to
execute on that, because thereare only so many days in a week
(24:44):
and time is valuable and, let'sface it, like moms are juggling
so much, they have so much ontheir plates.
There's lots of mom guilt andtoo many things to be done in
all of that time.
So, again, I think it'sindividual to each person.
If you're good with marketing,then If you're good with
marketing, then maybe you're notso good at the bookkeeping, and
then you can outsource that.
(25:04):
There are things that we excelat and there are things that we
need to be honest with ourselves, that we should not take on
because it's not within theinterest of the business.
One other thing I will sayabout that is a lot of the
clients that I work with.
One other thing I will sayabout that is a lot of the
clients that I work with.
Part of the work that I do isshifting them from working in
the business.
(25:25):
So like doing clientdeliverables and doing the
client facing work, pulling themout of that so that they can
work on the business.
So work on the strategy, thegrowth strategy, and
implementing the things that aregoing to be required to get you
from where you are today towhere you want to be.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So that's another distinction that I will make as
well some strategies that can beimplemented with limited time,
especially as we've mentionedmothers.
(26:03):
That's typically very limitedcommodities, so can you share
some tips or strategies in thatarea?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Absolutely so.
Things like optimizing youronline presence is really
important, like what platformsare you on?
Have you done a review of yourpresence online?
Have you used AI tools likeChatGPT to help you optimize
your online presence?
These are things that are verylow cost and that can make a
(26:36):
difference, because whensomebody who's interested in the
line of work that you do comesalong, at least your presence
online is accurate, it's up todate and it'll lead to better
conversations than if you don'thave a presence online or that
it's outdated or people don'tknow how to reach you or what
(26:56):
have you.
I think another opportunity thatpeople often miss out on is
upselling to current clients andmaking sure that you're having
your clients, whom you have goodrelationships with, vouch for
your work.
Are you asking for testimonials?
Are you asking for referrals?
Are you checking in to see howyour clients feel about the
(27:19):
quality of the work that's beingdone?
These are easy ways, becausethe customers are already there
to ensure that they're happywith the work and that they're
willing to talk about the greatwork that you're doing with them
.
And again, if we're not askingfor those testimonials and
putting those up on our websiteand talking about those when we
(27:39):
have the opportunity to.
That's an absolute missedopportunity and something that
doesn't require a whole lot moreeffort, so not adding to the
overwhelm.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
After you became a mother.
What is one of those mainmindset shifts that has come
into your business from thatexperience of being a mother and
how it relates to growth andsustainable?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
growth.
That's such a great question,and I think we talked about the
issue of legacy earlier, and forme, my business is not only
about the legacy that I leavebehind for women entrepreneurs
and making sure that their dayis perhaps a little bit easier
as a result of the work that Ido, but it's also about leaving
(28:29):
a legacy for my family and doingwork that they can feel proud
of as well.
Before I had a family and achild like I, didn't think about
the concept of legacy to theextent that I do now, so I think
that's one area that I'm mostmarked by in terms of being a
mom and thinking again aboutwhat do we leave behind after
(28:51):
we're gone, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I like that.
You've also talked aboutlearning to advocate and ask for
help in this journey, alsotalked about learning to
advocate and ask for help inthis journey.
What have you learned, alsofrom since you became a mother
in this leadership space?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
on that topic.
That's such a great questionand when I think about it, like
two things come up for me.
Advocating for myself is justasking for help, and part of it
is a process, I think, and thathelp, so to speak, evolves as
you become more comfortable withbecoming a mom.
(29:30):
Like one thing.
One thing that I've asked forhelp with is different
challenges that I'm seeing as amom and how to deal with
different behaviors anddifferent growth milestones, how
to do different things, becauseI've never been a mom before
and, as I mentioned before, mysupport system is really small.
(29:50):
So being able to ask questionsof other mothers and how they
dealt with it not only helps meto do better as a mom, but I
think it also helps to normalizewhat we're facing as moms.
I think the one biggest surprisethat I had in becoming a mom
was just how hard being a mom is, especially, I would say, in
(30:11):
the first three years, and howwe don't talk about it.
And if you compound that withthe fact that you are running a
business, growing a business,starting a business, like of
that difficulty, and howsociety's norms and structures
(30:44):
and constraints all play a rolewithin that, my one wish for all
of that would be for us to bemore open about that, be more
open about our own struggles, bemore open about our collective
struggles as women, and to shinelight on exactly what we're
dealing with, which, in my view,after having so many
(31:05):
conversations with so many women, is quite universal.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, I completely agree.
The first three years are soall-consuming in a way that I
had no idea before.
And yeah, it's just such a bigtime and it goes by so fast too.
But I think I had personallynot heard of it.
(31:29):
I don't know.
I don't know if I just didn'thave enough mom friends or what
beforehand, but I don't think Idon't know if I just didn't have
enough mom friends or whatbeforehand, but I don't think I
was super prepared for that.
You've experienced motherhoodworking at a large organization
and now you've also experiencedit as an entrepreneur.
Can you share a little bitabout what changes you have made
(31:52):
, how you make it work?
So, for example, what yourchildcare looked like before,
what it looks like now, Is yourschedule different?
Are you working normal hours,different hours?
How do you make it work interms of the logistics?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh, it's really funny because if you would have asked
me what my schedule looks likewhen I was working as an
employee versus what I would beworking as an entrepreneur, I
thought I would have much morefree time as an entrepreneur,
but the truth is that I amworking just the same, very
similar number of hours, verysimilar number of evenings and
(32:32):
weekends and things like that.
I think the one difference forme is that when I need to work
late, I know I'm doing it tobuild something for myself, my
family and my community.
I didn't feel the same way whenI was an employee.
I think, from a logisticsperspective, I was, as I
mentioned, lucky enough to havedaycare for my son working as an
(32:55):
employee and then now workingas an entrepreneur.
I have access to daycare whichallows me to be fully immersed
in the work, and then, when it'stime for my son to come home, I
put things down intentionallyand then, for two hours, like
after he comes home, I'm fullydedicated to him and I spend
time with him.
Now there are evenings wherethat's not possible, because I'm
(33:18):
out at events and networkingand doing professional
development and working withclients, and there may be a
whole host of reasons why I maynot be able to be with him.
But I try to be veryintentional in my time with him
and put the phone away and focusmy efforts on him and my time
on him, and then when I'm atwork, I'm at work really very
(33:38):
much focused on what I need todo for the business.
So, again, not as much changeas what I would have anticipated
, but I think the feeling aroundit has changed for me and in a
very positive way.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That's great, and it's also good that it sounds
like the childcare situationthat you had before didn't have
to dramatically shift, or thatnow it wasn't going to be
possible or it wasn't going towork.
It sounds like the transitionhas been really positive from
that end.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
It has.
And one thing I have to do isgive my partner credit.
He's been an incredible supportto me as I've been building the
business.
His support of the business,his unwavering belief in the
business, has really helped meto show up fully and to be able
to take the time to build thebusiness and not feel guilty
(34:30):
about not always being home withmy son, because I know that I'm
doing something good for ourfamily.
And his unwavering belief in meand the business helps me to
feel that way.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I'm so glad you mentioned that In the last
interview that I did, we spent,you know, a similar amount of
time talking, and that wassomething that she gave me was
that I didn't ask about that,and I think that's such a huge
part because, because parentingand running a business are both
hard and so the support that youhave in a partner if you have
(35:04):
one plays such a huge role inlike what you mentioned, even
just when things get hard, justknowing that you have that
someone that has fully believesin you, that fully believes in
what you're doing and that willalso support and encourage you
through all of the ups and downsthat come with entrepreneurship
and with parenting.
So so glad that you that youmentioned that.
(35:27):
Can you tell us more about howyou help women entrepreneurs?
What services do you offer forsomeone that might want to work
with you and, if you can, alsosome of your favorite success
stories?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
yeah, absolutely so.
In terms of the services that Iprovide, I work with women on a
one-on-one basis.
I have an eight week coachingprogram where we look at a
number of facets within thebusiness and we basically tie
all the functional areastogether around the client.
So what do I mean by that?
(36:03):
I think some of the bestbusinesses, especially
service-based businesses, arethe ones that basically borrow
from human-centered design andthey build their services around
their client.
And part of the work that I dowith my clients is really
looking at their business, attheir ideal client and, from a
(36:27):
functional perspective, how dowe make sure that things like
sales, marketing, operations,finance are all tied together
around this core client?
Part of it is prioritizing, asI mentioned before.
Part of it is really mappingout like what are the goals, and
then it's about mapping out thesteps in between and making
(36:48):
sure that everything isconnected so that again, the
scaling can happen, happen andthat the systems, the processes,
the people, everything are inplace to help facilitate that.
Some of the other work that wetalked about that I do is work
with private and publicinstitutions to help make
(37:08):
innovation ecosystems moreinclusive.
I also give talks, I giveworkshops and work with
different organizations andentrepreneurs to help meet their
needs in that way as well.
In terms of some of my favoritesuccess stories, there's a
couple that come to mind.
I worked with a client namedTina.
She had a consulting firm andit was just incredible to watch
(37:33):
her transformation.
I think it took something likethree weeks and that initial
tension or hesitation started tomelt away and I really started
to see these little aha momentsthat ended up turning into quite
a large transition.
And it was just incredible tosee how confident Tina was after
(37:55):
the course of working togethersix, seven, eight weeks kind of
thing and to see thetransformation in her business.
And the funny thing is that shealso interacted with some of
her clients to follow up withthem and they also noticed the
transition in terms of how sheshowed up as a professional and
as an expert for them.
So I think that's one of themost memorable stories.
(38:19):
I also worked with one of myclients, sarah.
She really didn't know where tokind of start.
She was doing all of the thingsand she was just really very
much on the verge of burnout,like she was.
Just she had too much on herplate, so part of it was really
sitting down and thinking about,like, what did she want out of
(38:39):
the business, who did she wantto work with and how could she
reach more of those people?
And so how do you talk to thosepeople, how do you identify
those people and how do youensure that you set up the tools
and the systems to replicatethe sales with your ideal
customer?
So a lot of the work that we didwith her was like around client
(38:59):
acquisition, internal processes, but I think in her case it was
just incredible to see, like,the potential of how she brought
in clients after she understoodthe systems and the processes
and was very clear on what shewanted to achieve.
For me, it's about those ahamoments.
When I see the light bulb gooff in the heads of my clients,
(39:23):
I feel joy and a warmth on theinside that I cannot describe
and it makes the work that I doworth it for me because, like,
it's all about those moments.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
I loved hearing those and I don't doubt them, because
when we worked together throughthe programs, I think there was
a couple of huge things thathappened, and the
transformations that my businessexperienced as a result of
working together were two things.
In terms of monetary, Idefinitely saw a big business
(39:57):
growth in terms of financial,but I also gained a lot of time
freedom, which I think now iseven more important to me than
financial, like just the demandsof parenting and the way that
it's set up, and I'm able to dothat in large part because of
our work together.
So I'm really thankful and I'mso happy for future business
(40:21):
owners that are going to get towork with you and get to
experience that type of growth,whether it's financial or
whether it's time or just, yeah,less feelings of just undoing
everything and burning out, fromtrying to figure every part of
the business out.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I love hearing that.
I love that, and you were oneof my favorite clients to work
with as well.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Thank, you, thank you .
Yeah, it was such a great fitand I think that's one of the
best things when you find in acoaching relationship that you
have someone that gets you andyou get to implement.
I think that was the main thingthat made the big difference
was so much guidance on actuallyimplementing.
(41:06):
It was so practical, and Ican't wait to see more of how
this all unfolds.
And let me know if any of yourclients want to come on the
podcast.
I'd love to have them as well.
Where can listeners and futureclients connect with you and
learn more about your work?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Oh, thank you.
So LinkedIn I'm on LinkedIn.
My name is Nicole Troster, alsothrough my website.
So Courage Labs spelledC-O-E-U-R-A-G-E, so it's Courage
, but it's got heart embedded init couragelabscom.
People can learn about all ofthe different types of work that
I do.
But really this has been such apleasure.
(41:47):
Amelia, I really appreciate theopportunity to have this
conversation and I justappreciate all your support
throughout the years.
Like I know, you've beencheering me on from afar and
just really appreciate all thatyou've done for me.
Thank you, nicole.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
For today's episode takeaways I have five.
One becoming a mother deepenedNicole's sense of purpose,
shifting her focus towardslegacy, both in her family and
her business.
Her journey reflects howmotherhood can lead to more
intentional, value-drivenentrepreneurship.
Nicole emphasized that womenscaling their business need
(42:22):
clarity, a focused strategy andsupport systems.
Trying to do everything leadsto burnout.
Scaling successfully meansprioritizing what only you can
do and learning to delegate therest.
Three the foundation forscaling is human-centered design
.
Nicole's approach to helpingservice-based businesses scale
(42:43):
beyond 500,000 starts withbuilding around the ideal client
.
Aligning every function, sales,marketing, operations around
the client creates sustainablesystems that support growth.
Four maternity leave andbusiness breaks require
strategic communication.
For moms stepping awaytemporarily, nicole suggests
proactive conversations withpartners, contractors, clients
(43:05):
and community.
Planning for transitions, evenwith imperfect support, makes
integration smoother andprotects business momentum.
And five we need to talk abouthow hard it really is.
Nicole vulnerably shared howdifficult the first few years of
motherhood are, especially whenlayered with entrepreneurship.
She calls for more honestconversations about this reality
(43:28):
and more structural flexibilityfrom employers and ecosystems
more structural flexibility fromemployers and ecosystems.
That's it for today's episode.
Thank you for spending thistime with me.
I know how valuable your timeis, and I hope you're walking
away feeling encouraged to dreama little bigger about what's
possible for your work andfamily life.
If this episode spoke to you,it would mean so much if you
(43:50):
shared it with another mom whoneeds this kind of encouragement
.
Make sure to subscribe so younever miss an episode, and if
you want to keep theconversation going, connect with
me on linkedin.
Just search emilia cotto.
That's e-m-i-l-i-a, c-o-t-o.
Until next time, remember,motherhood isn't the end of your
(44:10):
dreams, it's just the beginning.
In this episode, I'm joined by Nicole Troster, former
leader of Ella, canada's firstwomen-focused business
accelerator.
At York University, nicole hasguided hundreds of women
entrepreneurs towards scalable,service-based business models.
Now she is the CEO of CourageLabs and a strategic coach for
women.
Scaling service-basedbusinesses beyond 500,000.
(00:22):
Service-based businesses beyond$500,000.
Nicole shares her honestjourney from navigating a
post-maternity return to work tolaunching her own company that
empowers women to grow withoutburning out.
We explore the emotionaltension between building a
business and being present athome, how to prepare for
maternity leave as a founder,and what it really takes to
scale without compromising yourtime, your values or your
(00:44):
motherhood.
Nicole also shares wisdom forworkplaces and founders looking
to build cultures that retainand support working moms.
If you're craving both freedomand financial growth, this one
is for you.
Welcome to Little Hands BigPlans the podcast for moms who
want to reimagine work afterkids and build a life where
family comes first, withoutgiving up your dreams.
(01:06):
I'm Amelia and I know firsthandhow much motherhood shifts our
careers, our priorities and ourpace.
But instead of seeing it as asetback, what if we saw it as an
invitation, an opportunity todesign a life with a little more
freedom, a little more presenceand a little more fulfillment.
Each week, we'll have honestconversations with moms who've
(01:29):
shaped their work and businessaround what truly matters.
Whether you're considering acareer pivot, dreaming of a
slower pace or just wonderingwhat's possible, you're in the
right place.
So grab a little something warm, settle in and let's explore
the possibilities together.
I am so excited to hear moreabout your latest adventure.
(01:51):
For people that might not befamiliar with you, can you share
a little bit more about yourjourney to becoming an
entrepreneur and what you weredoing before and what you're up
to now?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, first of all, amelia, thank you so much for
having me here.
I'm really excited to have thisconversation with you.
In terms of becoming anentrepreneur, this is something
that I have wanted for the lastseven years, and it has not been
a straightforward journey, butI'm finally where I want to be,
and it's been a culmination ofyears leading up to this point.
Part of it was that I decidedseven years ago that I wanted to
(02:25):
be, and it's been a culminationof years leading up to this
point.
Part of it was that I decidedseven years ago that I wanted to
be an entrepreneur, that Iwanted to have my own business,
that I wanted to work withentrepreneurs directly, because
I had been working in theinnovation and ecosystem for
something like eight years andin different roles and I just
found that I wasn't able to seethe fruits of my labor.
So I really wanted to work withentrepreneurs directly, and
(02:46):
that's what I've been doing forthe last seven years.
Prior to coming into my businessfull time, I had my business
running part time since 2022.
And really, what I've beendoing for the last five years
was I started an accelerator forwomen entrepreneurs called Ella
at Yspace and designed threenational programs and one
(03:08):
regional program to help wellover 450 women scale their
businesses, and I've taken theproven frameworks that I put
together through Ella and nowthrough my own coaching business
, I'm working with women and I'mhelping those with
service-based businesses scaleto beyond $500,000 in revenue,
(03:29):
using again this provenframework that I've tested and
I've validated with so manyentrepreneurs and just really
excited for the next phase.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And you're also a mother.
Can you take us back to thatseason of becoming a mother and
how it shifted your perspectiveon work and leadership?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, I think I became a mom almost three years
ago and it's something that Ilove Like.
I cannot imagine my life notbeing a mom now that I am a mom,
but it's really gotten methinking about the question of
legacy and what we leave behindfor the world.
And when I think about the workthat I am doing now and the
(04:14):
projects that I'm able to takeon, I'm able to be so much more
intentional with my effort andmy knowledge and my expertise
and really work with eitherindividual women entrepreneurs
or with institutions that arevery centered around the idea of
growth and progress and makingsure that, on one hand, women
(04:38):
are able to be successful and tobuild sustainable businesses
that you know grow, and then, onthe other hand, from an
institutional perspective, thatwe're creating an innovation
ecosystem that is inclusive,especially from the perspective
of women You've shared beforethat.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Purge Labs, which is your business, was inspired by
your mother.
Can you share a little bit moreabout her journey and how she
inspired you to do what you'redoing now?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, such a great question.
So my journey to supportentrepreneurs is absolutely
inspired by my mother.
The earliest ideas that I'veever had about entrepreneurship
came from watching my mother.
My mother was the first femalelawyer at the biggest commercial
bank in Brazil.
She immigrated to Canada andthen her credentials were not
recognized.
(05:27):
She would have had to go to lawschool all over again and
unfortunately, because of familyresponsibilities and a whole
host of other challenges being anewcomer and others, for
example she wasn't able to goback to school.
So she ended up buying abusiness and running that
business small hospitalitybusiness successfully for 34
(05:48):
years.
When I think about that business, if you stood in the reception
of the business, you could seeinto our kitchen and our living
room.
So from a very young age I wasvery aware of the business
transactions that took place andthe way that my mother would
strategize to make sure that shecould meet customer needs
effectively, and so that'ssomething that really marked me
(06:10):
from a young age.
And then I've devoted the last15 years of my career to
supporting entrepreneurs in oneform or another.
And then my work at Ella reallywas dedicated and very
intentional in terms ofsupporting women like my mother,
giving them access to thementorship, giving them access
(06:32):
to the entrepreneurshipeducation and the community to
help them scale their companies.
All help which my mother didn'tnecessarily have when she was
going through herentrepreneurial journey her
entrepreneurial journey.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I love hearing that because, as a mom, I always
think about that and how muchimpact it makes to our kids what
we do and the example thatwe're setting for them in terms
of what they believe is possiblefor themselves.
You've worked with so manydifferent entrepreneurs in so
many different areas.
Was there a moment orexperience where you said this
this is what I want to do?
(07:08):
Or did it develop over timewith working through so many
entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Such a great question .
So I knew I wanted to have myown business.
I think I made the decisionseven years ago and you know I
had worked with a number ofdifferent entrepreneurs before
starting up Ella.
But I was very intentional incoming into Ella because I knew
that I wanted to workspecifically with women
entrepreneurs.
So the experience at Ellaallowed me to really again test
(07:39):
out, experiment with differentframeworks and see what's the
winning mix to help women scaleup their company successfully.
So in working over five yearsand working with well over 450
entrepreneurs through Ella, Iwas able to figure out that
framework.
And now the work that I'm doingis a continuation of that work
(08:00):
and helping to support women inscaling their companies.
And so really it was aculmination over many years and
something that progressed overtime.
But I'm equally as passionate,if not more passionate, about it
today than what I was back then.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
How did you come up with the niche that you have?
I know you focus onservice-based business.
There's scale beyond 500,000.
What led you to choose?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
that.
So for me it was working withso many service-based businesses
throughout all of the programsat Ella.
But it's also the idea thatthroughout my whole career I
have worked in services, so Ireally understand what it takes
to scale a service, what are thenuances and, if you kind of
look at it, services are allabout people and relationships,
(08:49):
and so when we think aboutscaling the business, yes, it's
about bringing more people in,but it's also about how you
position that company to bringin those additional people.
How do you position thatcompany to make sure that the
operations and the processes andthe systems and the tools like
everything's aligned to helpsupport that growth?
(09:12):
So, because it's something thatI have such tremendous
experience in, it was a naturalsegue for me to help women with
service-based businesses,because really I've been living
and breathing that for as longas I can remember.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
It totally makes sense to me as someone that has
admired you from afar for acouple of years now.
I think anyone that gets towork with you is going to be
it's going to gain so much fromhow much experience with so many
different types of businessesyou have.
One thing that I think isunique to women is, once we
(09:51):
become mothers there's thisgiant tension that for me I
didn't really foresee as much, Ithink, as it hit me about
wanting to grow and continuegrowing, and we spend so much
time in our careers beforechildren that it there's that
pull.
(10:11):
But then there's also the pullof my kids are only going to be
little ones.
I don't want to miss anythingabout their childhood, and so
it's a huge transition I havefound.
I was wondering, in yourexperience coaching women
through that transition, howmuch do you think is possible to
plan in advance?
(10:31):
Because for me I just it reallywas a bit of a shock.
I spent a lot of time planning,but because I had never been a
mother, I had no idea until Iwas actually there and then it
was back to the drawing board,despite how much planning I did
do.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think you're right.
I think, yes, there is acertain amount of planning we
can do in advance, but we won'tknow until we get there, and
that's something that Iunderstand well in my own life,
like that push and pull tensionthat you talk about.
But it's also, I think, so,individual to each woman who's
going through her own journey.
I think part of it depends onthe needs of her child or
(11:10):
children.
It also depends on, like, whatis the family structure and how
much support does the woman havewithin the family structure,
and is there support outside ofthe family structure?
All of these things really playinto that dynamic and things
like postpartum depression orpostpartum anxiety and how the
(11:31):
woman deals with having a child.
That's all layering on top tomake it a very complex situation
that maybe, despite our bestefforts to plan for, we can't
fully plan until we'reultimately in it.
That was for sure.
My experience.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Despite that, do you think there are some strategies
for someone that may be tryingto plan right now for that
transition?
What are some things that couldmake it a little bit easier?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
That's such a great question, amelia.
I think part of it is makingsure that you have conversations
ahead of time.
I think I had an understandingof what my support system was
going to be and then in realityended up being very, completely
different.
My partner and I, we are prettymuch on our own in terms of
(12:20):
being our own support network.
Unfortunately, we don't havefamily that is involved to a
large extent, that can share inthe childcare responsibilities,
for example.
We're lucky enough to havechildcare for our child, so that
is certainly a huge help, but Ithink, anything beyond my
(12:41):
partner, myself and thechildcare we don't have much
support beyond that, so it'sbeen very difficult from that
perspective.
So having conversations up frontwith yourself, with your
partner, if you have a partner,with the people who are in your
inner circle, if there arerelationships beyond the inner
(13:01):
circle from a communityperspective, having those
conversations and trying to getan understanding of what the
support may or may not look likeafter can certainly help, and
just educating yourself ondifferent supports within the
community, I think, is alsoimportant, because there are
community programs, for example,that I drew on when my child
(13:24):
was about five months old, andpart of it was free programming
paid for by the government, thatwe were able to access and I
used that as a way to socializemy child.
For me to start socializingagain, I thought that it was
very helpful.
So I think doing some research,having those conversations, all
of that is incredibly important.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, those are great tips.
And when it comes to scaling tobeyond 500,000, I think you
know it takes a lot and I'venoticed a difference between.
It seems that sometimes there'speople, like entrepreneurs,
that experience a lot of burnoutand there's some that seem to
do it with a little bit moreease.
(14:04):
In your experience, what aresome things that differentiate
those two?
What kind of things can peopleand mothers do, especially
because I know a lot of thechildcare responsibilities often
do fall on mothers?
What are some differencebetween those two opposite?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I think that's another great question and I
think part of the answer lies inthe fact that, as women, we
always have a lot on our platesbut we also take on a lot, so
it's easy to feel overwhelmedand to be wearing so many hats
and being not sure, like, whatstep to take next.
(14:43):
So there's a certain confusionor fog that results because of
this and I think for some people, when they sit down and they
clarify what they want to focuson and realizing that we can't
focus on everything within thebusiness, like we have to think
about two or three strategicareas of focus, focus so that we
(15:05):
can put more of ourselves intothose areas of focus and, like
really show up, as opposed todoing eight different things and
not really showing up for anyof it.
I think that's part of it.
So many of the women that Iwork with, part of the work that
we do together is to reallyprioritize, like what needs to
happen now, what can happen inthree months and six months, in
(15:26):
order for all of this to be asuccess, and I think I talk
about the idea of scaling tobeyond 500k.
But that does take time and ittakes clarity and intentionality
and systems and processes andprocedures, and it takes a lot
of things to be able to getthere.
But part of the work that I dowith my clients is mapping that
(15:48):
all out, getting the clarity,getting the confidence and
knowing exactly what steps totake in what order, and I find
that makes a world of difference.
So being able to ask for thathelp, to seek out those
resources, I think that's reallyultimately the difference
between the confusion and theclarity.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
There's also the moms that are or were entrepreneurs
and choose to step back for aseason but want to be strategic
about being able to come backinto entrepreneurship.
Do you think there's anystrategies that a mother in that
situation might be able to putin place to make coming back a
(16:32):
little bit easier?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So much like I talked about conversations in the
personal realm in terms of thesupport circle.
I think having conversationsearly on, especially if you have
employees or contractors, likehaving conversations to see, for
example, is there an appetiteto step in while you step away
for a season?
Are there other business owners, for example, that you could
work with on a referral basiswhile you're away and then work
(16:56):
with the clients when you comeback?
Are there other ways aboutgetting what you need from a
work perspective or careerperspective or a business
perspective, to ensure that youcan comfortably take the time
and then come back to thebusiness?
And then, ultimately also, itwould require conversations with
customers too, right, likeletting them know that I'm
(17:20):
preparing for this, this is howthings are going to unfold while
I'm away and then, when I comeback, this is how things will
unfold from that perspective,and making sure that you close
the loop on all of that so thatyou know everybody's aware of
what's going to happen.
I think, again, it comes downto those key conversations with
the key stakeholder groups.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Those are really good strategies.
Stakeholder groups those arereally good strategies.
And I think they also apply toeven just planning for maternity
leave, which is a completelydifferent ballgame than when
you're employed, because even ifyou're going to come back,
there's still going to be aperiod of time, whether it's
four weeks or eight weeks, whereyou're not going to be
available.
And having gone through withmaternity leave and planning in
(18:05):
such a high leadership positionfor yourself, is there anything
that, looking back on, you wishyou had known, or that you wish
you had done differently?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I didn't know what to expect coming into it, so it
would have been hard for me toplan realistically.
I think one of the things thatI would have liked coming out of
it would have been thoseconversations that I talked
about, and I don't think thoseconversations were necessarily
had.
I think, for transparency andall the rest of it, it's really
(18:36):
important to have thoseconversations.
So that's the one thing that Iwould have hoped for, in all
honesty, in terms of because Iknow you, you also advise
companies that are trying to bemore inclusive.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
How can a workplace shift or have policies that aim
at retaining mothers, especiallybecause, for example, I
remember in the law firm worldpeople would say that some law
firms were so hesitant to havecertain policies because, in
(19:11):
their experience, first-timemoms don't know what to expect,
which I think is true you can'timagine until you're there but
then that it ultimately a lotleave anyways.
But I personally have theopinion that it's because it's
not easy to come back.
And so the companies that aredoing a great job that you've
worked with at retaining mothersand leadership positions, what
(19:35):
are they doing differently tocreate that space and
flexibility?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I think you don't necessarily have to come up with
a company-wide policy.
I think it's about havingconversations on an individual
basis to understand, like, whatare the needs of that individual
?
And, again, part of what feedsinto what that individual needs
is whether or not they haveaccess to a support system.
It's very individual.
Every single woman will have aslightly different situation and
(20:06):
, from that perspective, only byhaving those conversations can
you really start to understandwhat the needs are and how you
might be able to support it.
I think, on a whole, mostcompanies aren't doing a good
enough job of providing theflexibility that parents in
general need in order to do agood job at work but also do
(20:30):
good jobs as parents.
Accommodation, I think theemployer gets like the win-win
situation because they get toretain top talent and the parent
gets more flexibility to dowhat they need to do, both as a
professional or a business ownerand as a parent.
(20:52):
So, again, I think companiesreally need to think about how
to provide flexibility and Ithink, if nothing else, the
COVID-19 pandemic has taught usthat.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, I would agree for sure.
I think that was the number onething that I, even in my
business, craved.
Going back from maternity leaveis just complete flexibility to
try to adjust to both roles,and we've talked a lot about how
you help women scale beyond500,000.
(21:28):
What are some of the key things.
If that's a goal somebody hasbut wants to avoid burnout,
wants to avoid a lot of themistakes that you see, how does
someone that wants to get thereget started?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Great question and I think there's a couple of things
.
One a lot of times we, as women, try to go out alone and
building a business, scaling abusiness, especially beyond the
$500,000 mark, is not easy, sowe have to ask for help.
(22:04):
If you want to avoid burnoutand overwhelm, you have to ask
for help.
You have to be clear about thesteps that you are going to take
in order to get from where youare to where you want to be, and
you may work with a coach toget there.
You may work with a communityto get there.
(22:25):
You may be involved, forexample, in masterminds, or you
may have what they call businessbesties, for example, that you
meet with frequently to gainsome clarity, gain some
confidence about how you'regoing to get from where you are
to where you want to go.
But I think, first and foremost, it's about having that clarity
on like, what are the stepsthat you're going to take to get
(22:47):
there?
And I think part of thatclarity is being very clear on
what you're going to prioritize.
As I talked about before a lotof times, especially
solopreneurs will takeeverything on.
They're trying to do businessdevelopment, social media
marketing.
They're trying to execute onthe client work, they're doing
(23:09):
the bookkeeping and then they'redoing a whole host of other
tasks within the business, andit's virtually impossible to do
everything well.
So that's where, again, beingsuper focused on what are the
things that only I can do andwhat are the things that I can
either delegate, outsource,refer out or what have you, to
make sure that I can focus onthe priorities that only I can
(23:32):
do within the business.
So I think those are probablythe two key things that would
help somebody who is intendingon scaling to get there.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
One of the things that you have mentioned is the
letting go part, the asking forhelp.
What are a couple of areas ofresistance that you see often
that founders have a difficulttime letting go of but need?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
to do.
It's funny because I canremember a number of different
entrepreneurs that I've workedwith and there is resistance
sometimes because theentrepreneur may feel that they
can do it better than anybodyelse.
So if there are things that youexcel at, then a lot of those
may be the things that you wantto keep.
(24:21):
And if it's something that like, for example, figuring out how
to execute on paid ads issomething that you're going to
have to take 21 days to figureout how to execute on, then
maybe you should be thinkingabout again outsourcing that to
somebody else who already hasthe expertise, the experience to
execute on that, because thereare only so many days in a week
(24:44):
and time is valuable and, let'sface it, like moms are juggling
so much, they have so much ontheir plates.
There's lots of mom guilt andtoo many things to be done in
all of that time.
So, again, I think it'sindividual to each person.
If you're good with marketing,then If you're good with
marketing, then maybe you're notso good at the bookkeeping, and
then you can outsource that.
(25:04):
There are things that we excelat and there are things that we
need to be honest with ourselves, that we should not take on
because it's not within theinterest of the business.
One other thing I will sayabout that is a lot of the
clients that I work with.
One other thing I will sayabout that is a lot of the
clients that I work with.
Part of the work that I do isshifting them from working in
the business.
(25:25):
So like doing clientdeliverables and doing the
client facing work, pulling themout of that so that they can
work on the business.
So work on the strategy, thegrowth strategy, and
implementing the things that aregoing to be required to get you
from where you are today towhere you want to be.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So that's another distinction that I will make as
well some strategies that can beimplemented with limited time,
especially as we've mentionedmothers.
(26:03):
That's typically very limitedcommodities, so can you share
some tips or strategies in thatarea?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Absolutely so.
Things like optimizing youronline presence is really
important, like what platformsare you on?
Have you done a review of yourpresence online?
Have you used AI tools likeChatGPT to help you optimize
your online presence?
These are things that are verylow cost and that can make a
(26:36):
difference, because whensomebody who's interested in the
line of work that you do comesalong, at least your presence
online is accurate, it's up todate and it'll lead to better
conversations than if you don'thave a presence online or that
it's outdated or people don'tknow how to reach you or what
(26:56):
have you.
I think another opportunity thatpeople often miss out on is
upselling to current clients andmaking sure that you're having
your clients, whom you have goodrelationships with, vouch for
your work.
Are you asking for testimonials?
Are you asking for referrals?
Are you checking in to see howyour clients feel about the
(27:19):
quality of the work that's beingdone?
These are easy ways, becausethe customers are already there
to ensure that they're happywith the work and that they're
willing to talk about the greatwork that you're doing with them
.
And again, if we're not askingfor those testimonials and
putting those up on our websiteand talking about those when we
(27:39):
have the opportunity to.
That's an absolute missedopportunity and something that
doesn't require a whole lot moreeffort, so not adding to the
overwhelm.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
After you became a mother.
What is one of those mainmindset shifts that has come
into your business from thatexperience of being a mother and
how it relates to growth andsustainable?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
growth.
That's such a great question,and I think we talked about the
issue of legacy earlier, and forme, my business is not only
about the legacy that I leavebehind for women entrepreneurs
and making sure that their dayis perhaps a little bit easier
as a result of the work that Ido, but it's also about leaving
(28:29):
a legacy for my family and doingwork that they can feel proud
of as well.
Before I had a family and achild like I, didn't think about
the concept of legacy to theextent that I do now, so I think
that's one area that I'm mostmarked by in terms of being a
mom and thinking again aboutwhat do we leave behind after
(28:51):
we're gone, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I like that.
You've also talked aboutlearning to advocate and ask for
help in this journey, alsotalked about learning to
advocate and ask for help inthis journey.
What have you learned, alsofrom since you became a mother
in this leadership space?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
on that topic.
That's such a great questionand when I think about it, like
two things come up for me.
Advocating for myself is justasking for help, and part of it
is a process, I think, and thathelp, so to speak, evolves as
you become more comfortable withbecoming a mom.
(29:30):
Like one thing.
One thing that I've asked forhelp with is different
challenges that I'm seeing as amom and how to deal with
different behaviors anddifferent growth milestones, how
to do different things, becauseI've never been a mom before
and, as I mentioned before, mysupport system is really small.
(29:50):
So being able to ask questionsof other mothers and how they
dealt with it not only helps meto do better as a mom, but I
think it also helps to normalizewhat we're facing as moms.
I think the one biggest surprisethat I had in becoming a mom
was just how hard being a mom is, especially, I would say, in
(30:11):
the first three years, and howwe don't talk about it.
And if you compound that withthe fact that you are running a
business, growing a business,starting a business, like of
that difficulty, and howsociety's norms and structures
(30:44):
and constraints all play a rolewithin that, my one wish for all
of that would be for us to bemore open about that, be more
open about our own struggles, bemore open about our collective
struggles as women, and to shinelight on exactly what we're
dealing with, which, in my view,after having so many
(31:05):
conversations with so many women, is quite universal.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, I completely agree.
The first three years are soall-consuming in a way that I
had no idea before.
And yeah, it's just such a bigtime and it goes by so fast too.
But I think I had personallynot heard of it.
(31:29):
I don't know.
I don't know if I just didn'thave enough mom friends or what
beforehand, but I don't think Idon't know if I just didn't have
enough mom friends or whatbeforehand, but I don't think I
was super prepared for that.
You've experienced motherhoodworking at a large organization
and now you've also experiencedit as an entrepreneur.
Can you share a little bitabout what changes you have made
(31:52):
, how you make it work?
So, for example, what yourchildcare looked like before,
what it looks like now, Is yourschedule different?
Are you working normal hours,different hours?
How do you make it work interms of the logistics?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh, it's really funny because if you would have asked
me what my schedule looks likewhen I was working as an
employee versus what I would beworking as an entrepreneur, I
thought I would have much morefree time as an entrepreneur,
but the truth is that I amworking just the same, very
similar number of hours, verysimilar number of evenings and
(32:32):
weekends and things like that.
I think the one difference forme is that when I need to work
late, I know I'm doing it tobuild something for myself, my
family and my community.
I didn't feel the same way whenI was an employee.
I think, from a logisticsperspective, I was, as I
mentioned, lucky enough to havedaycare for my son working as an
(32:55):
employee and then now workingas an entrepreneur.
I have access to daycare whichallows me to be fully immersed
in the work, and then, when it'stime for my son to come home, I
put things down intentionallyand then, for two hours, like
after he comes home, I'm fullydedicated to him and I spend
time with him.
Now there are evenings wherethat's not possible, because I'm
(33:18):
out at events and networkingand doing professional
development and working withclients, and there may be a
whole host of reasons why I maynot be able to be with him.
But I try to be veryintentional in my time with him
and put the phone away and focusmy efforts on him and my time
on him, and then when I'm atwork, I'm at work really very
(33:38):
much focused on what I need todo for the business.
So, again, not as much changeas what I would have anticipated
, but I think the feeling aroundit has changed for me and in a
very positive way.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That's great, and it's also good that it sounds
like the childcare situationthat you had before didn't have
to dramatically shift, or thatnow it wasn't going to be
possible or it wasn't going towork.
It sounds like the transitionhas been really positive from
that end.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
It has.
And one thing I have to do isgive my partner credit.
He's been an incredible supportto me as I've been building the
business.
His support of the business,his unwavering belief in the
business, has really helped meto show up fully and to be able
to take the time to build thebusiness and not feel guilty
(34:30):
about not always being home withmy son, because I know that I'm
doing something good for ourfamily.
And his unwavering belief in meand the business helps me to
feel that way.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I'm so glad you mentioned that In the last
interview that I did, we spent,you know, a similar amount of
time talking, and that wassomething that she gave me was
that I didn't ask about that,and I think that's such a huge
part because, because parentingand running a business are both
hard and so the support that youhave in a partner if you have
(35:04):
one plays such a huge role inlike what you mentioned, even
just when things get hard, justknowing that you have that
someone that has fully believesin you, that fully believes in
what you're doing and that willalso support and encourage you
through all of the ups and downsthat come with entrepreneurship
and with parenting.
So so glad that you that youmentioned that.
(35:27):
Can you tell us more about howyou help women entrepreneurs?
What services do you offer forsomeone that might want to work
with you and, if you can, alsosome of your favorite success
stories?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
yeah, absolutely so.
In terms of the services that Iprovide, I work with women on a
one-on-one basis.
I have an eight week coachingprogram where we look at a
number of facets within thebusiness and we basically tie
all the functional areastogether around the client.
So what do I mean by that?
(36:03):
I think some of the bestbusinesses, especially
service-based businesses, arethe ones that basically borrow
from human-centered design andthey build their services around
their client.
And part of the work that I dowith my clients is really
looking at their business, attheir ideal client and, from a
(36:27):
functional perspective, how dowe make sure that things like
sales, marketing, operations,finance are all tied together
around this core client?
Part of it is prioritizing, asI mentioned before.
Part of it is really mappingout like what are the goals, and
then it's about mapping out thesteps in between and making
(36:48):
sure that everything isconnected so that again, the
scaling can happen, happen andthat the systems, the processes,
the people, everything are inplace to help facilitate that.
Some of the other work that wetalked about that I do is work
with private and publicinstitutions to help make
(37:08):
innovation ecosystems moreinclusive.
I also give talks, I giveworkshops and work with
different organizations andentrepreneurs to help meet their
needs in that way as well.
In terms of some of my favoritesuccess stories, there's a
couple that come to mind.
I worked with a client namedTina.
She had a consulting firm andit was just incredible to watch
(37:33):
her transformation.
I think it took something likethree weeks and that initial
tension or hesitation started tomelt away and I really started
to see these little aha momentsthat ended up turning into quite
a large transition.
And it was just incredible tosee how confident Tina was after
(37:55):
the course of working togethersix, seven, eight weeks kind of
thing and to see thetransformation in her business.
And the funny thing is that shealso interacted with some of
her clients to follow up withthem and they also noticed the
transition in terms of how sheshowed up as a professional and
as an expert for them.
So I think that's one of themost memorable stories.
(38:19):
I also worked with one of myclients, sarah.
She really didn't know where tokind of start.
She was doing all of the thingsand she was just really very
much on the verge of burnout,like she was.
Just she had too much on herplate, so part of it was really
sitting down and thinking about,like, what did she want out of
(38:39):
the business, who did she wantto work with and how could she
reach more of those people?
And so how do you talk to thosepeople, how do you identify
those people and how do youensure that you set up the tools
and the systems to replicatethe sales with your ideal
customer?
So a lot of the work that we didwith her was like around client
(38:59):
acquisition, internal processes, but I think in her case it was
just incredible to see, like,the potential of how she brought
in clients after she understoodthe systems and the processes
and was very clear on what shewanted to achieve.
For me, it's about those ahamoments.
When I see the light bulb gooff in the heads of my clients,
(39:23):
I feel joy and a warmth on theinside that I cannot describe
and it makes the work that I doworth it for me because, like,
it's all about those moments.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
I loved hearing those and I don't doubt them, because
when we worked together throughthe programs, I think there was
a couple of huge things thathappened, and the
transformations that my businessexperienced as a result of
working together were two things.
In terms of monetary, Idefinitely saw a big business
(39:57):
growth in terms of financial,but I also gained a lot of time
freedom, which I think now iseven more important to me than
financial, like just the demandsof parenting and the way that
it's set up, and I'm able to dothat in large part because of
our work together.
So I'm really thankful and I'mso happy for future business
(40:21):
owners that are going to get towork with you and get to
experience that type of growth,whether it's financial or
whether it's time or just, yeah,less feelings of just undoing
everything and burning out, fromtrying to figure every part of
the business out.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I love hearing that.
I love that, and you were oneof my favorite clients to work
with as well.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Thank, you, thank you .
Yeah, it was such a great fitand I think that's one of the
best things when you find in acoaching relationship that you
have someone that gets you andyou get to implement.
I think that was the main thingthat made the big difference
was so much guidance on actuallyimplementing.
(41:06):
It was so practical, and Ican't wait to see more of how
this all unfolds.
And let me know if any of yourclients want to come on the
podcast.
I'd love to have them as well.
Where can listeners and futureclients connect with you and
learn more about your work?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Oh, thank you.
So LinkedIn I'm on LinkedIn.
My name is Nicole Troster, alsothrough my website.
So Courage Labs spelledC-O-E-U-R-A-G-E, so it's Courage
, but it's got heart embedded init couragelabscom.
People can learn about all ofthe different types of work that
I do.
But really this has been such apleasure.
(41:47):
Amelia, I really appreciate theopportunity to have this
conversation and I justappreciate all your support
throughout the years.
Like I know, you've beencheering me on from afar and
just really appreciate all thatyou've done for me.
Thank you, nicole.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
For today's episode takeaways I have five.
One becoming a mother deepenedNicole's sense of purpose,
shifting her focus towardslegacy, both in her family and
her business.
Her journey reflects howmotherhood can lead to more
intentional, value-drivenentrepreneurship.
Nicole emphasized that womenscaling their business need
(42:22):
clarity, a focused strategy andsupport systems.
Trying to do everything leadsto burnout.
Scaling successfully meansprioritizing what only you can
do and learning to delegate therest.
Three the foundation forscaling is human-centered design
.
Nicole's approach to helpingservice-based businesses scale
(42:43):
beyond 500,000 starts withbuilding around the ideal client
.
Aligning every function, sales,marketing, operations around
the client creates sustainablesystems that support growth.
Four maternity leave andbusiness breaks require
strategic communication.
For moms stepping awaytemporarily, nicole suggests
proactive conversations withpartners, contractors, clients
(43:05):
and community.
Planning for transitions, evenwith imperfect support, makes
integration smoother andprotects business momentum.
And five we need to talk abouthow hard it really is.
Nicole vulnerably shared howdifficult the first few years of
motherhood are, especially whenlayered with entrepreneurship.
She calls for more honestconversations about this reality
(43:28):
and more structural flexibilityfrom employers and ecosystems
more structural flexibility fromemployers and ecosystems.
That's it for today's episode.
Thank you for spending thistime with me.
I know how valuable your timeis, and I hope you're walking
away feeling encouraged to dreama little bigger about what's
possible for your work andfamily life.
If this episode spoke to you,it would mean so much if you
(43:50):
shared it with another mom whoneeds this kind of encouragement
.
Make sure to subscribe so younever miss an episode, and if
you want to keep theconversation going, connect with
me on linkedin.
Just search emilia cotto.
That's e-m-i-l-i-a, c-o-t-o.
Until next time, remember,motherhood isn't the end of your
(44:10):
dreams, it's just the beginning.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com