031 Personal Development VS Comparison To Others: Ep 21 of The Philosophy Of Fitness

It's easy to default to comparing ourselves with other people. But how valuable is this, and are there better ways to strive for improvement? Today on Live All Your Life, Tali and Cody bring another episode of The Philosophy Of Fitness where they discuss the pros and cons of comparison, and how we might develop better strategies for personal development both within and outside the world of competition.

00:43 Icebreaker: Favorite Mike Myers Roles ..."I'm a hyper hypo!"

05:41 INTRO: Personal Development VS. Comparison With Others; easy to do in our Instagram World! 

13:14 Unhealthy comparison often stems from a lack of knowledge - it's based on a lot of assumption

18:07 Your environment may not promote you to think about your personal development as yours. Sometimes your surroundings and associations are prompting comparison.

20:17 IFS: Internal Family Systems framing competition in a holistic view is cooperation. Sometimes comparisons can help us to rise to the challenge. 

28:11 In the first week of the Covid shutdowns back in March of 2020, we made a list of intentions as to how we wanted to conduct ourselves. We weren't perfect, but we went into it with intention. Here is what we hoped for:

1. Don't accumulate any more debt.
2. Not burn through savings.
3. Pivot to location-independent income.
4. Learn about sustainability - Be resourceful.
5. LEARN AN IMPORTANT LESSON.
6. Brings family closer together
7. Stay healthy physically/mentally
8. Make decisions we feel good about
9. We remain on the same page - move through it together
10. Be considerate of others

33:40 Your only real competitor is yourself. Be better than yesterday.

43:04 Comparison with others can give you a skewed sense of reality. Firstly, you don't know what advantages or disadvantages they've had. Secondly, your focus can shift from one competitor to another to change your own status for better or worse. Comparison only with yourself helps to eliminate those two illusions. Tali- "There's a big difference between being THE best and being YOUR best and they come with really different experiences and territory.

46:12 Your "competition" could be having the same comparison issues as you. Everybody has their own timeline.

51:27 Actions c

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Philosophy of Fitness podcast

Cody (00:22):
on the Lyceum network.

Tali (00:43):
Since we're watching the ever relevant Austin Power
series this weekend, I thoughttoday's icebreaker could be our
favorite.
Mike Myers Rolls Go.

Cody (00:55):
That's a tough one for me.
I know.
Because you have that wordfavorite in there again.
And so it's like, it's gotta bethe best one.
And I grew up with Mike Meyers,like he was the Saturday Night
Live cast that I grew up with inhigh school.
So everybody thinks that liketheir era of Saturday Night Live
was like the only good era.

(01:15):
Mm-hmm.
And I think it's just becauseyou have to be kind of immature
to appreciate for sure.
And then it becomes nostalgiclater on.
Yes.
Because they don't really, it'snot that great.
But

Tali (01:28):
I mean that's definitely the experience watching Austin
Powers again, I remember beingin like elementary, middle
school age at the time whenthose came out and they were the
funniest things ever.
And now it's really fuckingcringey.
Yeah.
But moments

Cody (01:42):
are funny.
Moments are funny.
Wayne's world, not the movies,but the actual skits of Wayne's
world.
On Saturday Night Live, it'sprobably my, my most nostalgic
Mike

Tali (01:55):
Myers.
Do you have a favorite anything?
Can you connect?
You're my favorite person.

Cody (01:59):
You're my favorite person, honey Okay.

Tali (02:02):
All right.
I'll take it.
But why?
Why the resistance of somethingfavorite favorites can change.
That's okay.
Okay.

Cody (02:10):
So, well, I was gonna say Shrek because those movies do
hold up.
Well, they're hilarious.
They do, they're still funny tothis day.
So I would say favorite MikeMyers's role would be Shrek.
Okay.
I would say an honorable mentionof how I married an ax murderer,
though.
And the only reason I bring itup is because it's one of his

(02:30):
lesser known roles.
And I think that movie'shilarious and I think it's
charming and just kind of a funmovie.
So how I mar.
Is that

Tali (02:40):
what it's called?
How I, how I married an exMurder?
Yeah.
Yeah.
When we watched that movie, atfirst I was like not sold on it
at all.
But I look back on it reallyfondly.
Yeah.

Cody (02:51):
I think it's a rewatch kind of movie.
I think so too because I'vewatched it many times with
friends and like with familymembers and stuff and I think
that's probably why I like it somuch is that it's one of those
movies that kind of sinks in andyou kind of feel like you get to
know the characters more.
Mm-hmm.
every time you watch it.
Yeah.
What's your

Tali (03:08):
favorite?
My favorite?
Your absolute favorite?
Well, I have a couple ofcomments on the ones that you
mentioned.
So, Wayne's World, I actuallydid see the movies first.
Yeah.
I really only saw the skits onceI met you, cuz I didn't know
that that's where it came from.
Yeah.
So now I'm kind of, I've becomekind of skeptical of like any
person who has been in the castof Saturday Night Live, if their

(03:29):
movies are previous charactersfrom the show, which.
I think they're so brilliantthat some of them spun off that
way.
Yeah.
A favorite Mike Myers role?
This one I'm willing to go asfar to say it's my favorite
because of your impression ofit.

(03:50):
Does that ring a bell?
My impression of

Cody (03:53):
it?
Yes.
Of, of Mike Myers?
Yes.
Oh, I don't, no.

Tali (03:59):
Sorry.
Hyper hypo.
Oh yeah.
I love that skit so much.
I love this skit so much.
We'll put a link of it on theshow notes, but.
I had not seen this SaturdayNight Live skit.
It's, I think with NicoleKidman.
Is that right?
Yes.
Yep.
And they're playing these littlekids on a playground, and I

(04:21):
hadn't seen it until not thatlong ago, but Cody has
referenced this millions oftimes since we've been together,
and I always find it hilarious.
Can you please?
It is really funny.
Can you please give us theimpression?

Cody (04:35):
So Nicole Kidman asks him if he wants some chocolate, and
he says, I'm not allowed tobecause on the account of I'm a
hyper hypo I'm a hypochondriacand a hyperactive.
I think that's what he says.
Anyway, it goes on.
And she offers him again andhe's like, you are the devil.

Tali (04:58):
I love it so much because it makes me laugh like that.
Okay.
Yeah, so I think that wraps upour ice break for today.
My face hurts really bad fromlaughing, but today we're gonna,
you're

Cody (05:09):
pretty, I know.

Tali (05:11):
Today we're gonna be talking about personal
development versus competitionwith others.
And it's really easy, I think,when you are entering the world
of personal development that younaturally start to compare
yourself to other people's work.
And, you know, this is veryrelevant to weightlifting and
gym life, but I've also seen itin our other pursuits, like, you

(05:33):
know, the stats when you talkabout your book and our podcast,
and this is what everybody elsewas able to achieve.
And I just think that that'ssuch a easy, slippery slope to.
Embark on and I just want totalk about our experiences and
how we can maybe mitigate thatmoving forward cuz it's so not
helpful.
Their comparison is helpful insome ways, but not that way.

Cody (05:55):
Yeah.
And it's an epi epidemic in ofsorts because of our social
media world.
Everybody's putting their, theirbest stuff out there.
Some people to the point ofabsurdity, you know, like, they
like really, I, I saw a meme theother day that was kind of funny
because it, it's also kind ofsad, like cringey funny, that

(06:16):
kind of funny.
Hey and it was on a parentingmeme page that I follow and it
was like, you know, I see.
I see moms talking to theirkids, like, shut the hell up and
sit down and don't say anythingand blah, blah, blah.
And then they post on socialmedia.
This is my reason for breathingYou know?
And it's as in this

Tali (06:36):
one person is posting both.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
That's

Cody (06:39):
confusing.
No, I mean that, but that, I'veseen that too.
I've, I've witnessed that inperson, like people who don't
treat their children well at allon a daily basis, and then they
make social media posts abouthow much they just adore their,
their beautiful children.

Tali (06:53):
And it's like, I mean, that shit happens in real life.
I think I told you yes.
Somebody came into the shop theother day and their kids were
like destroying the place.
And like from across the room,as she's like perusing for
herself, she's like, Hey, kids,like please pick up after
yourselves.
Cooperate and try to be reallylike flowery about it.

(07:14):
And then when she went overthere to talk to them, like,
woo, a switch flipped.
And it was really oh, it reallytook me back to being a kid and
like what being scolded soundedlike.
Yeah.
And that all happened in a spanof like 10 minutes.
Yeah.
But yeah, you could tell thatthere was like a front being put
on.
Or maybe her le like her leashwas much longer her temper.
Hadn't really been sparked yet.
But yeah.

(07:35):
Really different methods weredisplayed.
Yeah.

Cody (07:38):
Once, yeah.
That's just an example of whatwe see on social media though,
is that people wanna put.
their ideal self online, whichis understandable.
Yeah.
But over when you see that overthe course of populations of
millions and millions of peoplewho are on social media starts
to skew reality a bit.
I don't know that it's, youknow, necessarily a fault of

(08:00):
people being on there.
It's just, it's a naturaltendency of course, to always,
yeah.
Put your best out there and thenbut then it skews everything for
everyone else.
For us watching it, it's like,well, man, I don't like you were
saying like, man, I, I writeabout the same things that Greg
McEwen and, and James Clear andJames Altucher and you know, I,

(08:25):
I can list 10 authors who writeabout very similar topics to
mine, who are like millionaireauthors and I've sold like me 15
copies of my book maybe.
Yeah.
And so it's difficult to.
Not compare when when things arepushed at you all the time like
that.

Tali (08:42):
Well, the thing about social media that we know and
forget is that we're not gettingthe whole story.
And that's the danger I think,of living your life online.
And that's why I'm alwayswanting to spend time with
people in person.
Mm-hmm.
or have real conversationsbecause what I'm getting online
gives me a really skewed idea ofwhat their life is like.

(09:02):
And like you said, it's justreally easy to compare thinking
that every circumstance or pointof view is gonna be on an even
playing field.
And when you talk to people inreal life, you learn so much
more about like what it actuallytook to get there or what their
faults are.
Remind them that remind you thatthey are human.
Yeah.

Cody (09:22):
Yeah.
It reminds of me of ourconversation yesterday with a
couple that we met for coffee.
Yes.
And there was like somevulnerable moments and like
talking about things that were.
that they wanted to change andstruggles that they're having
and things like that.
And it was really cool cuz itwas, it was casual and, and open
and authentic.

Tali (09:41):
And isn't that cool that, that's like a common theme with
the friends that you and I aremaking lately as a couple?
Yeah, well

Cody (09:48):
I think it's, we walk that and so we do, you know, we're
inviting it.
You attract, similar to the wayyou act, I think.

Tali (09:56):
Well, you know what's funny is I always used to be
really critical of myself,especially in high school when
friends, like I'd be hanging outfriends one-on-one and we would
always get really deep in theweeds and I'm sure that they
really appreciated that.
Cuz it wasn't like every, youknow, having to put up a front
or to be cool or whatever.

(10:16):
I'm trying to, I'm thinkingabout a particular friend that I
had, her name was Anna.
She was like, really excitable,had a ton of friends.
Everybody wanted Anna to comeover.
Like, she was just a greatenergy.
And every time I would go to herhouse we would have like really
deep conversations or do likeyoga and shit like that, or

(10:36):
stretch and or like go forwalks, like really healthy
things.
And I was like, gosh, I must bethat really boring friend who
like is not the life of theparty.
Like everybody knows when theyhang out with me, it's gonna be
like really heavy or reallyserious.
And so I used to be reallycritical of myself, but I think
it's my superpower truthfully.
Absolutely.

(10:57):
Like that people can be openwith me in the way that they
are.

Cody (10:59):
I mean, that's how you captured me.
Absolutely.
Like right off the bat.
because you don't run into thatkind of authenticity and
willingness to go into realconversation very often in, out
in the world.

Tali (11:12):
It can feel like a handicap sometimes though.
Like, that's the only place Iknow how to go And if you can't
hang with it, then it's reallyhard to hang with me.
Yeah.
But I think that's great.
I know, I mean, I think it isnow, but I just think of what
that was like as a young person.
It really wasn't cool.
Yeah.
But, but I also, I, I think thatI'm much better with people

(11:32):
one-on-one, but I'm also excitedthat it's feeling more like I'm
doing, I'm feeling that same waytoo on two when it's you and me
as a couple.
And like that's the kind ofthat's the kind of company that
you and I are attracting.
Really exciting to me, cuz itseems like we've been exercising
that a lot lately.
Yeah.
Not only with our business, butjust our personal life too.

(11:54):
Yeah.

Cody (11:55):
Well those two things are intertwined, inseparable, I
think.
Yeah.
Our business and

Tali (11:59):
personal life.
I don't think you, and I knowhow to separate the two and I
love it.
Yeah.

Cody (12:03):
The idea that social media is people's sort of best foot
forward, or maybe even a facade,kind of reminds me of something
that's closely related totoday's topic, which is
competition.
That was in one of the, thehighlighted notes here, is that
mm-hmm.
competition can bring outcomparison in an unhealthy way.

(12:25):
Yeah.
And it's interesting because,the analogy I was just thinking
of in my mind is people are alsodoing that at competition time,
right?
When you show up forcompetition, you are presenting
yourself a certain way.
Ah, yes.
That may not be really yourday-to-day.
Right?
You know, there are people whoyou, you don't see the struggles

(12:46):
of their training, their ups anddowns, their injuries, their,
their flakiness.
Like every once in a while, youknow, people are human and they
may not be as disciplined asthey're presenting when it's
showtime.
And so you show up on game dayand o you know, obviously if the
things are too inconsistent,that may affect your

(13:06):
performance.
And it'll show, and you can'thide that.
But at the same time,

Tali (13:10):
I was gonna say, if you have a trained eye, like you'll
be able to see a lot of those

Cody (13:13):
nuances.
Yeah.
But I guess my point is, is thatwe don't know the struggle that
people are going through to getto where they're at.
We just see game day when it's acompetition situation.
Mm-hmm.
So I think sometimes thatunhealthy comparison can also be
present with people who, forinstance, might have advantages
over you.

(13:34):
So you show you, you see themcome up to game day and they're
just like intimidating andyou're comparing yourself to
them, but you don't realize thatthey've had a whole bunch of
advantages that you did nothave.
Whether that's chemicalenhancement, or, or just avail
happens or availability, or.

(13:55):
Time support community, youknow, like, there's just so many
things.
Well, you can do your researchYeah.
But I guess my point is, is thatthe unhealthy type of comparison
I think often stems from a lackof familiarity.
Like, the less familiar we arewith somebody, the easier it is

(14:15):
to compare ourselves in anunhealthy way.
I just realized,

Tali (14:18):
should we turn the

Cody (14:18):
heater off?
I think we recorded with it lasttime and it was all right.
Okay.
It's cold.
It's, so it was three degreeslast night, folks.
Yeah,

Tali (14:25):
three I Yeah.
I wasn't sure if it, themicrophone would pick it up or
not, but it's, it's prettyquiet.
You know, you were talk, I hadmentioned research and it just
reminded me of the third,second, third time I competed at
state.
You know, you get a start list.
a week out, two weeks out, maybefrom any competition.

(14:48):
So you can see, you know, who'sfilling out your weight class,
who you're up against.
And there were a bunch of namesthat I did not recognize, and we
all had very similar entrytotals.
Mm-hmm.
And you have to submit an entrytotal to qualify for meets.
And that's where you take yourbest scores that have been

(15:10):
achieved on the platform in asanctioned meet.
And you combine those scores fora total.
And that is what you can submitif, you know, the, the high
level competition requires, likeyour entry total has to be over
160 kilos combined or something.
And that's how you know that youqualify.
And so anyway, there are ahandful of girls who were in my

(15:32):
weight class that all had.
similar entry totals and Ididn't know who they were.
And really feverishly the weeksleading up, I tried to find them
online and like watch theirvideos, see what their numbers
were like, how consistent arethey?
But like you said, when it's allonline, you only get the best.
So

Cody (15:52):
I remember that.
I remember here you likeInstagram stalking your
competition.

Tali (15:56):
Yeah.
And one of them has actuallyturned out to be a good friend
of mine.
She lives out here in La Grande,which is really cool.
Cuz that's very close to wherewe live.
I've been meaning to meet upwith her.
But yeah, we've been in kind ofthe competitive circuit with
each other for a long time now.
And that weight class in thatparticular year was super
stacked.
Mm-hmm.
like it was really, reallyclose.
And I think even though I was alittle obsessive at that time,

(16:22):
to kind of know what my footingwas amongst them.
I think at that point I was soseasoned as a competitor that I
didn't pay attention to whatother people were doing.
You know, the great setup abouta weightlifting meat generally
is that there is a back roomwhere everybody's warming up and
then there's a wall, some kindof partition between the, that

(16:46):
back room and the platform andthe audience.
And so a lot of times you don'tknow what's happening out there
on the competition floor.
Mm-hmm.
or when you're on thecompetition floor, like you've
got work to do, so you're notthinking about what's happening
in the back room.
So a lot of times the results ofthe meat, unless it becomes like
very neck and neck and there arestill only like two or three

(17:09):
lifters standing you.
easily have no idea what's goingon out there, And that's why I
have so much beef with all thenew setups at the national meets
where everything's all open.
I feel like you're reallyfucking with competitors that
way in being able to focus onthemselves.
Mm-hmm.
And I know a lot of it, I thinkjust has to do with not having

(17:31):
the adequate space and they'retrying to accommodate so many
lifters.
So instead of three platforms,they're like five.
And so they have to have anaudience, they have to have a
back room for each one.
And it's a nightmare for coachesbecause sometimes they'll have
multiple lifters on differentplatforms and they're gonna have
to run back and forth or, yeah.
Or at the same

Cody (17:49):
time

Tali (17:49):
it's fucking crazy.
I think it's terrible and I feelso bad for everybody who's in
that competition circuit rightnow as the American Open Finals
are happening.
I forget where, but I know thatthey have a very similar setup
this year.
And I had a, I had a note thatwas, That not every arena,
whether it's a professionalarena, sports arena, personal

(18:13):
arena, like values in yourfamily or whatever, don't
necessarily set you up forsuccess to stay in your own lane
or to think about your personaldevelopment as yours.
Sometimes the partitions aretaken off.
Sometimes the comparisons arebeing, you know, blatantly made.
Why aren't you more like yoursister kind of thing.

(18:34):
Mm-hmm.
like almost encouraging you tocompare yourself to others,
which can really, you know,screw up your focus.
It can really take you down adark path if you let it.

Cody (18:43):
Yeah.
I think it's natural tendency tocompare, because that's
something that humans do.
We always categorize everythinglike, yeah.
I don't know.
It's something about the way ourbrain works is that we want to
try to create these categoriesof everything, whether it's
something in nature or.

(19:04):
You know, that's kind of howscience works is that we isolate
and compare and contrast mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
and we draw all these linesbetween things and some of that
I wonder too about it being acultural issue speaking a little
ignorant here, ignorantly.
But it seems to me, from what Iknow of some of the, especially

(19:26):
the more ancient philosophies ofeastern culture is that rather
than think of the world as awhole bunch of competiting
competitive categories, theirwhole philosophy and way of
thinking is that everything issort of one hole and everything
is a part of that hole.
Yes.
It's, it's one thing to be ableto articulate that, but it's

(19:48):
another thing for your mind toactually work that way.
Because when you're acculturatedin that philosophy, your brain
literally develops differentlyto think of things in a very
different way from a visceral,emotional, you know, deep rooted
response to things as beingcohesive.

(20:08):
Mm-hmm.
and cooperative rather thancompetitive and have all these
delineations between things likewe, we tend to think of things
well

Tali (20:16):
invaluable in their own right.
Do you remember listening to myconversation with my mom
yesterday?
I was really hoping it wouldwork its way into whatever topic
we were gonna discuss today.
And it did, and I'm so excited.
she was talking about some workthat she's been doing personally
that has been assess.
Parts of her

Cody (20:34):
ifs.
Internal family systems,

Tali (20:35):
yes.
But she was talking morespecifically about herself and
the different parts of herself,the task manager, and then the
rebel, and how that, how theyare seemingly competitive with
one another and sabotaging theother.
And a big part of the practiceis to eliminate assigning value
to either one of them as likeyour task manager being the good

(20:56):
girl and your rebel being thebad girl.
And recognizing that they arethere to support each other.
Like you cannot have one withoutthe other.
And that's all wrapped up in theconversation of, you know,
feeling guilt when I'm notgetting enough work done.
And then, you know, getting onsuch a role with work that you
let everything else in your lifebecome neglected and how

(21:18):
difficult that balance is.
We all deal with that to somedegree.
And it's really easy to think ofit as a dichotomy, devil and
angel on your shoulder, but.
I think what's really importantin this particular conversation
is that we have to assign valueto each one of those things
independently and not see themas like competitive components.

(21:41):
Mm-hmm.
and how all those parts ofourselves are good.
And same thing when it comes tocompetition.
Like, you know, like you said,comparing ourselves to others is
inherent.
It's so hard to avoid.
But developing personally, Ithink is what allows you to

(22:02):
really see yourself for who youare and love it and appreciate
it.
Yeah.
And you know, competition willcome up, but as long as you feel
like you're firm in your ownvalue, then so, so what?
Mm-hmm.
that stuff doesn't end upmattering.
Anymore.

Cody (22:21):
Yeah.
Well, you had talked aboutassigning value independently,
but you could also think of itas assigning value cohesively to
those various parts of yourself.
That, you know, in the case ofsay the task master and the the
rebel is that they're takingcare of each other.
Yeah.
You know, the rebel is takingcare of the task master because

(22:42):
the rebel understands thatthere's a balance and rest
that's necessary in order to beeffective.
Yeah.
So they're helping the taskmaster be more effective, if you
think of it that way.
And the task.
And likewise, the task masterrecognizes that if everything is
just what you want to do all thetime at any moment, then you
could fall into a pit of despairand depression because you stay

(23:03):
in bed all day.
Right.
And so, in a way, there, it's aloving act.
It's not, it's not anantagonistic viewpoint of these
two parts of yourself.
It's more like various forms ofyourself.
offering kindness, you know?

Tali (23:19):
Yeah.
This reminds me of two differentthings.
One, my favorite, one of myfavorite movies, I'd say it's
top five for sure.
But I love The Dark Knight.
Mm-hmm.
with the Joker played fr as,what's his name?
Heath Ledger.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, there's a point in themovie where he tells Batman,
like, you complete me You know,like he, they play off of each

(23:44):
other and need each other to betheir best.
Mm-hmm.
And I think about that also inthe same way that I think about
my teammate Nicole, who we had areally challenging relationship.
And just last week when you andI recorded, we talked about how
our anniversary week is comingup and that we went to Cova
Coffee and I touched your armand it was a big deal in the

(24:07):
start of our relationship.
But I remember the conversationthat we were having, which was
about Nicole.
Yeah.
And I'm not not sure how it cameup, but I remember telling you
that, you know, I feel reallychallenged by her all the time,
but I need her in a way, or Ineed to learn to appreciate her
because she is allowing me to domy best work by essentially

(24:34):
trying to do the opposite ofeverything that she was doing.
Mm-hmm.
But still, like I almost neededthat rift with her in order to
be the kind of lifter andteammate that I was mm-hmm.
because she gave me like thattension or that thing to push
back, to act a certain way to belike generous and poised and

(24:58):
dedicated, like, you know, shehad a lot of good qualities too,
but I had to learn to appreciatethat challenge or that tension
between us.
Yeah.
And it was most definitelycompetition.
Like, you know, we were alwaysfighting for coaches time and
wanting to be top dog in thegym.
And I mean, who knows if it wasjust handed to me, maybe I

(25:23):
wouldn't have risen to theoccasion that I did or reached
the heights that I did mm-hmm.
in that time.
So,

Cody (25:30):
but you used that fuel?

Tali (25:32):
Yes.
Yeah, because it was there, youknow, if she wasn't there then,
you know, it'd be silly to like,create.
that sort of, I don't know ifI'd be able to like replicate
that, you know, but mm-hmm.
like you said, everything isconnected to each other and she
was a part of my trainingenvironment.
I had to embrace that.
Mm-hmm.
And of course there were manytimes where I didn't, where I
like, would come home likecrying about it or, you know, we

(25:55):
had mediated conversations wherewe were pretty frank about how
we just did not like each other.
Mm-hmm.
But I, I, I think, I think sheknows that.
I think she knows that like weneeded each other.
I don't know if I did anythingfor her.
I would really love to find out.
But I hope I did.

(26:16):
but not everybody takes thatopportunity.
Like that's the whole point oftoday is like you can take that
opportunity.

Cody (26:20):
Yes.
And that's what I was gonna sayis that you're, in a way you're
reframing, which doesn't meanyou're being dishonest, but
you're just reframing thesituation because you could also
look at it as a real negativesituation.
Like there was a lot of, wellfucking was, there's a lot of
stress involved.
And there were, there were timeswhen you expressed shame in the

(26:42):
way that you were feeling aboutthings or the way that you were
handling things, which I did notsee.
Reasons to be shame shamefulabout.
I,

Tali (26:52):
well, I want other people's bad attitudes to bring
me to their level.
Yeah.
And when I see that I do, I'mreally hard on myself because I
think it's important to alwaystake the high road or be the
bigger person if you have theenergy for it.
Mm-hmm.
And when I don't have the energyfor it and I succumb to new lows
or whatever, it's.

(27:13):
Well, I'm feeling really badabout it.

Cody (27:16):
I think you're overly hard on yourself in that regard, but
I think it's a interesting wayof reframing it though, because
you are right on both accounts,like Yeah.
Was a challenge and in such away that it could have been an
impediment to your progress atthe time.

Tali (27:37):
It was at a point.

Cody (27:38):
But at the same time, you can also look at that same
symbiosis that you were justtalking about of how you used
that to better yourself and tobe an example of like, that's
not how I want to conductmyself.
And so let's go the extra mileto conduct myself how I would
want to, you know, if I had a, amentor in the gym that was

(28:02):
presenting themselves, this iswhat I would hope to see.
And so you kind of became yourown your your own mentor to
follow

Tali (28:10):
in that way.
Yeah.
Well that's what's so importantI think, about developing your
own values, especially when itcomes to a pursuit.
You know, when Cody and I wereanticipating losing our jobs
just before covid hit andeverything went shit I had
actually already lost my job atthat point.
You hadn't yet.

(28:31):
But we wrote out a list of waysthat we hoped to conduct
ourselves and we wrote, wrote alist of like 10 different things
and maybe we'll put that in theshow notes too, cuz it's on our
fridge.
And interestingly it wasn't likesuper specific to Covid cuz
everything was super vague atthat point in life.
But we just knew that we wantedto conduct ourselves with a lot

(28:52):
of flexibility, understanding ofother people's experiences.
Do you remember what elseroughly

Cody (28:59):
To.
continue to stay connected withour relationship Yeah.
With each other, but also ourfamilies.
Yeah.
Because even in the first weekof the whole Covid announcement,
all, you know, this divivpolitical division, shit was
starting to stir whether,whether there should be closures

(29:23):
or whether there should not beclosures like that was already a
debate before it even happened.
And so I remember one of thethings we put on there is that
we wanted to try to, to not letthat interfere come between us
and our

Tali (29:36):
families.
Yeah.
So anyway, the reason I bring itup is that you and I
preemptively.
Had a code of conduct forourselves and how we wanted to
move through this experience.
And I don't know how well wekept with that, cuz it was, you
know, a couple of years of a lotof strain and not seeing our
families and everybodydisagreeing as to why we're not

(29:57):
seeing each other.
And

Cody (29:59):
Yeah.
And, and that's a tough thingabout putting responsibility on
yourself to maintainrelationships is that they also
have to want that Yeah.
So sometimes there's like riftsthat happen that you have no ab
absolutely no control over, youknow?
But what I

Tali (30:12):
mean to say is that in weightlifting and on my team, I
had like a certain code ofconduct that I held myself to.
And I think that in any of ourpursuits, that might be a really
important thing to make somedecisions on early on.
Like, who do I wanna be in thisrealm?
Mm-hmm.
Because like you said, withcompetition or comparison, like

(30:33):
it just can.
Take you over.
It can be a dark road if you letit.
And that all can just comeabout.
So automatically like entering aroom with people like, or, you
know, getting my blood drawn theother day, like, it's amazing
how that anxiety just takes overmy body and I don't even realize

(30:55):
it's happening.
And so I just think it'simportant, like if you develop
your values enough to a pointwhere you feel like you can
really execute and practice themand you believe in them, and of
course they can ebb and flow,but if you can always act from
that place, I think it can allowyou to be less susceptible to
like the negative parts ofcompetition because there are

(31:17):
some really valuable parts.
Mm-hmm.
or valuable elements andcharacteristics of competition.
But I think in general, whenpeople hear the word
competition, they take it.
As a negative thing.

Cody (31:29):
Yeah.
Well, and within the realm ofcompetition, even if it is with
an opponent like say boxing orsomething like that, or a team
sport or, or weightlifting orwhatever that is there are
plenty of examples of reallyhigh level athletes who have had
the mindset of my competition isnot my opponent, my competition

(31:51):
is me.

Tali (31:52):
Guess who comes to mind?
Who?
Rocky.
Yeah.
I love Rocky so much.
and I didn't think that I would,I thought it was gonna be a
super bro movie, and turns outit's like one of my favorite
movie series.
I made a distinction there.
I don't remember what he says,but I remember him.
acknowledging something at theend of the first movie, like at

(32:14):
the end of the fight.
Mm-hmm.
and saying something to ApolloCreed.
Do you remember what it is?

Cody (32:21):
Man?
I should, because I've grown upwith those movies and watched
him so many times, but I forget.
But I do know that, you know,spoiler alert, he does not win
No.
In the first movie.
No.

Tali (32:30):
Which I think is, ugh, what a move to make.
But

Cody (32:33):
the whole idea is that.
he went the distance.

Tali (32:37):
Right?
He made it to the

Cody (32:38):
last round.
Yeah.
He, he kept getting up, he kepttrying.
He kept trying.
No matter what, even when he waslosing, he kept trying.
Right.

Tali (32:45):
And I can't remember at the end if he either
acknowledged that he like madeit to the end, or if he
essentially said like, goodgame.
Mm-hmm.
or like, you're one hell of acompetitor to be up against.
Like the sentiment was somewherein there.
And I just remember remembering,thinking like, wow, what a great
sport.
Like especially in a you know,in weightlifting, your opponent,

(33:06):
like you never see them likethey are, they're totally on
their own, on the platform bythemselves.
It's really a solo sport.
Yeah.
You still have competitors, butnone of them are punching you in
the face.
Right.
And to be thoughtful of that, tothe point where someone is like
physically harming you is crazyto me.
that's another reason that Ilove that movie so much.

(33:28):
Yeah.
It's like such an extreme.
Example of getting knocked downand getting back up.
Yeah.
And doing it with poise andtenacity and man, I love him.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (33:40):
there's you know, later in that series, Apollo actually
says what I was just talkingabout.
He's like, in, you know, in thislife you don't have to prove
nothing to nobody exceptyourself.
And he is like, look in.
He's making rocky, like, look inthe mirror.
Cuz he's like, that's youropponent.
You know, like, th that is whoyou are fighting against, is

(34:00):
that person you're looking at

Tali (34:01):
in the mirror.
Has anyone ever said that to youexplicitly?

Cody (34:05):
No, but I've known it somehow myself.
I mean, I, I still fall in thetrap of comparing myself to
others, but it seems like thatalmost always just turns around
and, and is pointed.
Back at myself like, well, Icould be doing this better or I
could be doing that better.

(34:26):
I don't, and sorry, I don't knowthat it's always in a healthy
way though.
Because one thing I wanted tobring up is, you know, a motto
that we had in my gym and a lotof CrossFit gyms took up this
same flag, if you will, isbetter than yesterday.
And the idea of better thanyesterday is that you come into
the gym and you're trying to putin effort to be better than you

(34:49):
were yesterday.
Not better than somebody else inthe gym that day.
And that's why, you know, therewas, it's interesting because in
CrossFit gyms there's aleaderboard, like the people who
did the best that day at thatparticular right timed event or
strength event or whatever it.
and that friendly competitioncan really drive people to

(35:10):
levels where they would not gonormally.
And that's one of the effectiveaspects of a CrossFit,

Tali (35:16):
Jim.
Yeah.
Well we did an episode on thisthat you can't live your life in
a vacuum.
Yeah.
You have to have some sort ofidea of the height that you can
Yeah.
Raise to, and a

Cody (35:28):
lot, for a lot of people, it pushes them to levels they
didn't even know they could doon their own.
Yeah.
However, it's at the same time,I don't think it's a conflict to
say that, yes, the leaderboardcan motivate you, but you really
should be tracking your workoutsto compare to yourself, your
past self.
And I Did you get the, it's likemaybe you came in 20th in the

(35:52):
gym that day.
you took two minutes off of yourscore from the last time you did
that workout six months ago.
Yeah.
So that, that is the win.
Like you just won because youbeat yourself

Tali (36:04):
from six months ago.
Yeah.
I think that's really hard tomanage when you're training with
somebody, especially like on thesame bar.
If you see that person liftingmore than you or, you know,
taking a big jump.
Mm-hmm.
you too can take a big jump, butit has to be based on your
numbers, not theirs.
Yeah.
And it's so easy when you'resharing a borrower with

(36:24):
somebody.
Just I do it with you.
I do it with you a lot.
Like I remember we diddeadlifting together in a hotel
recently.
Mm-hmm.
And then we came home and I didthe exact same thing.
Cody and I had shared a bar fora deadlifting workout one day,
and it was early in the morning,so I wasn't feeling like
particularly motivated to unloadand reload the bar with weights

(36:45):
that might have been moreappropriate for me.
I just lifted everything youdid, which.
physically I could do, but maybeI shouldn't have.
Like, everything ended up fine.
I didn't hurt myself or feelexcessively sore or anything.
But I just think that's a goodexample of like how close and

(37:05):
how easily or how fine that lineis.
Mm-hmm.
from like being on your own pathand then dipping into somebody
else's.

Cody (37:15):
Yeah, and that's a funny example too because I never, I
don't feel competitive with you.
I don't know if you do.
I do.
Cuz you sometimes you get thereeasily.
You get there more easily than Ido as far as being competitive.
Mm-hmm.
I've never been competitive withyou.
But having said that, I dosometimes have an expectation of

(37:36):
myself that whatever you'redoing, I should just be able to
do.
Which is kind of funny because

Tali (37:42):
that's, that sounds competitive to me.

Cody (37:44):
Yeah.
but it's not in a, in a, anattitude of wanting to beat you.
Mm-hmm.
to me, that's what competitivemeans.
Like, I wanna beat you like Iwant to do more than you.
You know, and that's not thecase.
It's just, it's more of like areflection of how I feel about
myself is that, well I should beable to do this Hmm.
And there's a weird should therebecause it's like, why, because

(38:05):
you're a dude.
Because that's fuckingridiculous.
She's out.
You have out trained me inhours, probably like three to
one given my whole lifetime.
I'm 16 years older than you andyou've still probably trained
three times more than I have.

Tali (38:19):
Oh, thanks

Cody (38:20):
So it's ridiculous for me to always assume that I should
just be able to move the sameweight that you are.
Well, that's

Tali (38:26):
kind of the, I mean, I also have another slippery slope
example where we had to do, Ithink it was overhead squats for
reps, which anything for reps Ifucking hate.
Is this in Baker?
No, this was in weightlifting.
Oh.
Very unusual stretch ofprogramming, I guess, cuz it was

(38:47):
such a rarity that we would dothings like this.
But yeah, I didn't see you dooverhead squats a lot actually.
It would be, yeah.
That's probably why I'm so badat them.
But we had to do overhead squatsfor reps and I think I, I went
first and I did like seven repsat like maybe 110 pounds or
something.
It was supposed to be prettylight.

(39:09):
And then Nicole, the sameteammate, she does 10.
And so kind of in the same waythat you had just said,
reflecting on training with me,that anything I do, you should
be able to do.
That same kind of thought, liketriggered to me when Nicole had
hit 10 and I was like, cool, I'mgonna go do it again.

(39:29):
And I did 11 such an assholemove.
But I think this example isinteresting because yes, she
pushed me to do more work, whichis the great part of having
competition is that it propelsyou to new lengths that you
didn't think you could reach.
Mm-hmm.
or that maybe you didn't care toreach.

(39:50):
But at the same time, like Ialso won, upped her for the sake
of one upping her which is kindof a dick move, So I had my
moments.
I totally had my moments.
Yeah.
But like I said, that, thatchase for top Dog was not
something that I just likehappened to find myself in.
I wanted it too.
Mm-hmm.
I just happened to have anadvantage over her, so I had

(40:14):
kind of a.
more of a lax attitude around itbecause my margin, like we had a
pretty healthy margin between usand I knew that she wouldn't
catch up to me.
Mm-hmm.
you know, for a lot of thoselifts, you know, maybe not for
reps, but for weight to be ableto put weight on a snatch or a
clean and jerk, it's not alinear experience.
It takes fucking forever to justput like five to 10 kilos on one

(40:38):
of those.
Yeah.
It takes a lot of work.
Yeah.
So I knew that I was in a prettycomfortable place and that's why
when the whole steroid thinghappened, that's why I started
to really fucking unravel, youknow, because that margin closed
really rapidly, seemingly out ofnowhere.
And then I did, it did become aclimb for top dog.
Mm-hmm.
and I was starting to slipbehind and didn't understand

(41:01):
why.
And that's because she had ashortcut on one side and I
didn't Yep.

Cody (41:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Tali (41:09):
I'm trying to talk about it more matter-of-factly, cuz I
don't feel emotionally chargedby it anymore.
Yeah, that's good.
And I actually talked to one ofmy clients about it earlier this
week who is on a basketball teamand was talking a lot about how
there's kind of a facade withbasketball being a team sport,
but it's really not They're allincredibly competitive with each

(41:30):
other.
Mm-hmm.
too.
And I can understand that in asport where like maybe injury
rates are really high or youhave to have a lot of stamina,
it makes sense to have a reallylarge team, but only like a few
people actually playing.
Yeah.
But what a fucked up dynamicthat can make.
Yeah.
For the people who are sittingon the bench and the people who
are on the floor, as much aslike you wanna push the team and

(41:54):
the team being the mostimportant thing, it's creating
an environment where thosepeople are really competitive
with each other.
pretty mean to each other too.
Yeah.
We're talking about girls highschool basketball here.
You know, where this is evenlike pro stuff, but to think
about how that might be a partof the basketball culture is

Cody (42:12):
wild.
Well, I was just thinking aboutthat in the, and I would have a
suspicion that you don't get tothe pro level if you are
competitive with your ownteammates.
I feel like

Tali (42:23):
for the, you don't think Shaq and Kobe were competitive
with each other?
I

Cody (42:26):
think that if you're on the same team, you have to put
the team above your own selfishdesire to outperform your
teammate

Tali (42:36):
in a way.
But sometimes two people arefighting for the same spot.
Yeah.
And there's all these issueswith like seniority and who's
deserving and whatever.
Yeah, I get that.
And I just told her, I was like,your coach is gonna do whatever
is gonna allow you guys to winbasketball games.
They cannot take thatpersonally.
Right.
That's a cue to them that theyneed to do something more.
Yeah.

(42:56):
And it's not your fault that youhave the spot.
Yeah.
All right.
I mean, it is, you've done thework to get there, but like you
should revel in it.
You should not feel guilty aboutit.

Cody (43:04):
Well, it kind of reminds me of that cheer show that you
were watching Cheer.

Tali (43:07):
Oh man, that show was so good.
Yeah.
Uh, What did it make you thinkof?
Well,

Cody (43:11):
cuz that was the same thing, you know, it's like,
there's only so many spots forthis competition and we're
talking about Oh

Tali (43:16):
yeah.
Like 20 people out of 40 or

Cody (43:18):
something.
Yeah.
And those 40 are all badass.
Like all, all 40 of those peoplecan do shit that most humans
just can't do.
Right.
And so to get squeezed out of asituation like that was
heartbreaking for some of thosekids who, I say kids, but, you
know, like 20 year olds orwhatever.
But yeah, I mean to, in, in acollege situation too.
That's a really interesting,because this is another dynamic

(43:41):
I didn't think about until justnow on topic, which is being a
big fish in a little pond.
Okay.
you know that that term meanslike, okay, if you're going to a
small high school and you arethe star athlete, you could be
like way, way, way more advancedthan everyone around you.
And you kind of get used to thatspot and then you go to a

(44:04):
division one, you know, teamsituation in college and all of
a sudden you're not the big fishin the little pond anymore.
Scary.
You got a lot of other big fishwho came from other ponds and
you're middle of the pack maybe.
You know?
And it's all that's gonna takesome huge adjustment.
Yeah.
It sounds disorienting.
If hell if, yeah.
If you're worth, if you're, ifyour value was in comparison,

(44:30):
then you're gonna have a roughfucking time of it.
Yes.
But if your value was like, I'mdoing the best I can, then I
think you'll have an easier gobecause you're still performing
as good or better than you werein high school.
And if you're comparing toyourself, you can see that
progress.
But if you're comparing.
Two other all stars from allover the country, then it

(44:53):
becomes a very different

Tali (44:54):
story.
Yeah.
There's a big difference betweenthe best and being your best.
Yeah.
And they come with reallydifferent experiences and
territory.

Cody (45:05):
It's funny because I hear this talked about in business
sometimes, but I've never hadthat inclination in business.
Like I,

Tali (45:14):
it would totally apply,

Cody (45:15):
but I don't think it is in the same way because if, if my
business is successful to thedegree that I want it to be,
then I don't care if there's 10other competitors who are also
successful.
I think that's great.

Tali (45:27):
But don't you think you're mistakenly trying to do what
other people are doing to get toyour best without it coming from
an internal.
Drive.

Cody (45:40):
Not necessarily because for me, a lot of my business
success is based on thelifestyle that I want.
And so if I can achieve thatlifestyle, then I don't really
care if other people are doingmore or better

Tali (45:50):
or faster you and I are, or whatever.
You are working with people whoI think their values are just in
line with what you want.
Mm-hmm.
in terms of even what theircompany name is, money up, time
down.
Like they want you to make moremoney so that you can have more
time in your life to live it.
And so think about how long it'staken you in your career to find

(46:11):
this.
Yeah.
And I just think about how, youknow, everyone's path is gonna
be incredibly unique and I'mgonna go ahead and venture that
A lot of the authors that youmentioned before have had the
same thoughts of like, well, whyis this so hard for me?
Perhaps I, I'll bet on it.

(46:33):
You know, my mom, she wasreally.
Supportive of me as a youngperson.
I felt like I struggled inschool a lot and I, I can't
think exactly what else thismight have been attributed to,
but she would always tell melike, you know, everything's
gonna happen in your own time.
You just have to like, havefaith in that.
And it's hard for me to thinkabout what she was talking about

(46:53):
because, you know, I was likethe first of my friends to get
my license.
And, you know, I had a boyfriendat a young age.
Like, there were things that Ididn't necessarily feel like I
was missing out on other thanacademics.
I felt like academics werealways really challenging for me
and that I felt like I wasbehind.
Which is wild to think aboutbecause, you know, being this

(47:15):
far out from school, I look backand I'm like, damn, that shit
was so easy.
I just did not care to do it.
Yeah.
But it gave me the impressionthat I was like slow or gave me
the impression that I was notlike everybody else.
And so I just remember beingtold that all the time that you
know, everything in our lives isgonna happen on their own
timeline.
And that's kind of the mistakethat school can have is that

(47:39):
we're all kind of moving fromone grade to the next.
Like you've mentioned how whenyou were held back, when you
went from one school to the nextand how your credits didn't
transfer or whatever, like couldhave set you up for your whole
fucking life to feel inadequate,which is a systemic thing.
It's not a you thing.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's why I askedif anyone explicitly had ever

(47:59):
told you like that you are yourown competition.
Because I think if you are toldthat like Wow, how alleviating
that would be.
Yeah.
That like whatever the fuckingnoises or what everyone else is
doing around me is irrelevant tome.
Mm-hmm.
how powerful would that be?
but we don't grow up thinkingthat way.
We grow up thinking that we aresupposed to be doing what

(48:19):
everyone else does.
Yeah.
And that's what fascinates meabout your kids a lot, but also
makes me nervous for them attimes, because I've been
indoctrinated to feel that way.
Yeah.

Cody (48:29):
You know?
Yeah.
I was thinking of that just nowin reference to Eastern culture
and I think that there's, Idon't know if it's because of
western industrialization orwhatever, but there's, there
obviously is a massive pressurein eastern cultures to like be
the best, be better, be betterthan other people like.

(48:50):
Excel in school, Excel, youknow, it, there's this massive
pressure and I think thatschooling in general is probably
something that reallyindoctrinates this comparison to
others because we're beingcompared to others.
Yes.
Our teachers are comparing us toothers.
Like, you know, it's a, it's acompetitive environment from the

(49:10):
time where toddlers basically,you know, like, well, so-and-so
is quiet and doing this thingthat they're supposed to be
doing, you know, they'recoloring.
Isn't that how being

Tali (49:18):
graded on a curve works too?
Yeah.
Doesn't that like kind of fuckit up for everybody

Cody (49:22):
else?
It's just compared to everybody.
Yeah.

Tali (49:24):
Or it's being compared to the best performer.
Yeah.
Right.
There isn't like an objectivityto it.
Like someone sets the bar andthen we're all being compared to
that

Cody (49:35):
score.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's, it's interesting thatwe would be raised in an
environment like that and thenexpect ourselves to have healthy
relationships with comparison,

Tali (49:45):
or even healthier relationships with competitors.
Like I have something on here,like you had mentioned, like,
you know, Apollo told Rocky thathe's not his component.
Rocky is Rocky's component.
His opponent.
His opponent.
Opponent.
Mm-hmm.
And I, you know, even with thatteammate that I had, like I've

(50:06):
told you how, when we had amediated conversation it went
fucking terribly.
Of course, but, and you know, Iended up crying and everybody
was walking back to the gym, alllike defeated.
But we ended up training on thesame bar that day.
I just was like, do you wannatrain on my bar with me And and
even when the whole thing withthe doping came out, like I text

(50:27):
her mm-hmm.
I felt like it was so importantfor me to have like, compassion
and respect for her, even thoughI hated her Like there were
times where I thought she waslike, put on this planet to ruin
my life.
But in that eastern culture way,I knew that her role in my life
was important.

(50:47):
And even if I didn't reallybelieve it, I knew that I had to
just think it.
I had to try to embrace that.
And I would like to think thatmore in terms of our other
competitors that we see in ourlives.
And I think a reason that it canbe daunting and scary is because
we're only seeing the best ofthem, like you had said on
social media.

(51:08):
And I think breaking down thatwall and allowing them to be
potentially a friend, you know,like that can do a, that can
undo a lot in terms of the waythat we feel wired to feel a
certain way about them.
Yeah.
And what they represent in ourlives.
Yeah.

Cody (51:27):
Yeah.
We talked about reframing onpast episodes and I.
Can be a valuable tool for whatwe're talking about because your
actions can be similar from anoutside perspective, but your
motivations internally can bevery different.
Yes.
And your relationship to whatcauses you to act can really
make a big difference in yoursubjective experience in life.

(51:50):
Well, it makes being a happy

Tali (51:51):
person Well, and how complex is that to be internally
driven and to respondexternally.
Mm-hmm.
like those things seem reallyconflicting with one another.
Yeah.
In terms of like how they'rechallenging you.
But that's why I think it's soimportant to develop your own
sense of value.
Mm-hmm.
because otherwise, what's thatsaying?

(52:12):
Like if you don't stand forsomething, you'll fall for
anything.
It's that same idea I think,where if you like, you'll just
be at the whim of whatever thecircumstances.
Are asking of you, and Imentioned getting, giving blood
the other day or drawing blood,which didn't end up happening.
I'm not, my veins are notcooperative at all and I think

(52:34):
we gave it three tries before wewere like, meh, no cigar.
But I was telling you that maybegiving blood or getting my blood
drawn needs to be what I wassaying earlier that day about
hiking and how I've kind of beentelling myself that I detested
all this time and just, youknow, have a visceral reaction

(52:56):
when someone asks me to gohiking with them and maybe
withdrawing my blood.
It should be the same thing.
Like, I should question, do Ireally feel this way or have I
let like one shitty experiencemake me believe this for the
rest of my life?
Mm-hmm.
what a crutch that is, or what.
what a way to hold myself back.
I like to think of myself assomeone who's very in control of

(53:19):
their emotional response.
Someone who has poise, someonewho is okay with being
uncomfortable.
And the way that I respond togetting my blood drawn is like
such a floppy cock version of meYou know, like all of that goes
out the window.
I feel like I'm five again andthe experience is terrible.

(53:40):
But yesterday it was reallydifferent towards the end.
Mm-hmm.
you know, I felt like as myheart rate started to pick up
and I started to feel faint, Iwas able to intervene somehow.
You know, a lot of thecircumstances were really great,
but I felt really motivated inthat moment to be like, I'm
fucking done feeling this way.

Cody (53:59):
Yeah.
Well you've done this before inanother context, brilliantly
which is dating.
Like there had come a pointwhere mm-hmm.
you decided there was no suchthing as a bad date because if
it was a bad date, you weregonna have fun anyway.
Mm-hmm.
whether the guy

Tali (54:13):
and a bad date or not.
I was gonna say a bad date islike, not even that things are
going wrong, it's just like, youknow, if you don't feel
chemistry with somebody, it'seasy to just be like, all right,
well now I'm just here, here.
This is a waste of time here.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was dating a lot at thetime and so I was like, I can't,
I can't let this like take medown.

Cody (54:32):
Yeah.
But I think that's a goodexample of reframing, you know?
Yeah.
The activity is the same.
You're still on the same date.
It's how you're choosing tointernalize it.

Tali (54:41):
Well, and it also no longer became dependent on the
other person's actions.
Yeah.
It was about myself and so thatfeels very relevant to giving
your opponent power.
Mm-hmm.
as opposed to being motivatedinternally and using them as
kind of a tool.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
I don't know if that counts asusing people, but I think about
like boxing and how, you know,the mechanisms that they're

(55:05):
training in the gym with allthese like, crazy pieces of
equipment, those are toreplicate what your opponent is
doing.
Mm-hmm.
you have to just think aboutthat opponent in the same way.
Yeah.
They're a tool for you and Well,

Cody (55:17):
and they're sparring partners for fighters.
Yeah.
And sparring partners.
You know, there'll be five guysgoing against one in a training
session sometimes because you'regoing through fresh opponents,
uhhuh, And that's part of yourexercise is to face real people
in.
Well, they're fresh.
Right.
And you know, they do one roundeach when you do five.
You know,

Tali (55:37):
and I don't know if this is like, flowery of me and not
realistic, but like, you have touse those, I think about using
those opportunities as a chancefor you to get better, not to
beat them.
Mm-hmm.
But are those the same thing,which is different sentiments?

Cody (55:54):
Well, I don't think they are exactly the same thing,
because it's like we talkedabout you know, Rocky didn't win
that fight, but he won his ownbattle.
Like he made it, he, he went thedistance when no one thought he
could.
And he trained.
as hard as he could.
Like he did everything hepossibly could have to get as
far as he could.
And so he won himself eventhough he lost the match.

(56:18):
And so I feel like that's alittle bit of what we're talking
about and what I was talkingabout in business even.
Like if, if I can achieve thethings that I want to achieve in
business, I don't give a shit ifother people are doing better.
That's not the point.
The the where I've fallen into atrap is sort of on the negative
side of that, where when I'm notachieving what I think I should

(56:40):
be able to, then I comparemyself to other people.
You know, this happened in mygym a couple times early in, in
the earlier days.
There was a time when I became aCrossFit affiliate.
Before most people knew whatCrossFit was like.
The elevator pitch for my gymwould have to spend, you know,
a, an inordinate amount of timeexplaining what CrossFit is.

(57:03):
Mm-hmm.
because there was not traininglike that at the time.
People really take this forgranted.
Now that you know all the crazyshit you see on Instagram and
everything, it's like you didnot see that stuff back in 2006
that didn't exist.
The only training you ever sawin 2006 was either for a sport
or body building, flat outperiod.
Full stop.

(57:23):
That's it.
And so to do these, you know,mixed mo modality training like
CrossFit was, was something thatnobody had ever heard of.
So the only reason I say that isto explain how early I was in
the game and I'd been trying forlike three or four years to
establish a, a gym that was likeself-sustaining, you know,

(57:44):
something that we could pay thebills and I could draw a salary
and support my family and have asuccessful community of thriving
athletes.
Training at my gym and.
and I was three or four years inand somebody else set up shop in
the same town.
And because he was on, he waslike a volunteer firefighter or

(58:08):
something like that.
So he knew a whole lot of lawenforcement and firefighters in,
and his wife's family financedtheir gym.
So when they opened their doors,it was all brand new.
Perfect.
And then they had like 50 lawenforcement people like show up.

(58:28):
And so literally within hisfirst three months, he had more
members than I did after threefucking years.
And I was like, this is, this isshit I felt so shitty.
And I, and I feel bad sayingthat because it's like, what,
what difference does it make?
Like that didn't, it didn'tnecessarily affect me.
at the time, it was really hardnot to compare myself.
Like, what am I doing?

(58:49):
Like, I, but you had

Tali (58:49):
mentioned this earlier in the podcast.
I can't even remember what wewere saying, but you were
talking about like, we don'thave any idea what other people
are equipped with when I wastelling you about doing
research.
Yeah.
I think it was, you know, and Itried to do my best to find out
like, well, what are theiradvantages?
What do they have that I don't

Cody (59:07):
have?
Yeah.
Well, and at the time, I thinkpart of what was feeding into
that negative comparison wassome lies that I had been told
by mentors.
Because there were mentors outthere who were like, well, if
you build it, you know, theywill come kind of bullshit.

Tali (59:22):
You've

Cody (59:23):
abandoned that, huh?
Well, it's fucking trash.
It's, it's a, it's a shittymovie with a shitty actor.
It's a movie.
Ah, field of Dreams.
I'm just gonna like put it outthere.
Kevin Costner sucks.
And Whoa, whoa,

Tali (59:33):
whoa.
What is going on?
No, I think that the, I thoughtwe loved Kevin Costner.

Cody (59:40):
No, he's got a couple good movies.
I dunno.
I think he's one of those actorsthat's like hit and miss and
he's Bill as a superstar.
I know I'm gonna piss a bunch ofpeople off out there who are
listening to this, but

Tali (59:49):
I just feel like you're taking the spirit of this
podcast and like going down thatscary path that I'm like, you
don't have to go there andyou're taking it.
So like, can I reel you back inplease, please.
No, that's

Cody (01:00:01):
fine.
I just, my point is, is thatpeople take this as serious
philosophy.
Like, oh, if you are goodenough, people will show up at
your door.
That's fucking bullshit.
You can be the best coach andstill flounder as a business
person.
Oh yeah, you can be, you can bethe best athlete and get injured
and you're a fucking out.

(01:00:21):
Like how many times have we seenthat?
That's like a true story.
You know, we can pull lots ofexamples.
So this whole idea of like justdo your best and everything's
gonna work out is just flowerygarbage.

Tali (01:00:32):
I have something sort of similar to add to that in terms
of like an example where, youknow, I ended up.
leaving my team, leaving thesport.
And that's because a lot of likemy emotional hangups are like
the way that I feel aboutweightlifting, like has gotten
in the way of just the physicalpursuit.
Mm-hmm.
if I didn't care about thoserelationships as deeply as I do

(01:00:55):
and let them get to me, I mightstill be on top of my game at
this point.
You know, that might not be,maybe that might be a quality
that I have that does not giveme an advantage in the sport.
I don't know how to separate my,you know, physical pursuits or
my aspirations from my socialenvironment that determined

(01:01:20):
everything for me.
Yeah.
You know, and that might besomething that I either have to
learn and push through or I haveto take what I do well.
and take it elsewhere where thatdoes thrive.
You know, we talk a lot aboutassessing in here and
reassessment and I think thatthat makes a lot of sense in

(01:01:41):
business too.
Like it's kind of like findingyour market, right?
You have to see where yourskills are gonna be best
applied.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And this person who knew allthose people, all those firemen,
like that really worked well forthem.
You know, that's a reallyvaluable quality to have in this
particular arena, right?
Yeah.
Membership keeps the shipafloat.

Cody (01:02:02):
Yeah.
Well the reason I bring up thewhole field of dreams stupid
thing is that mm-hmm.
like there was real businessadvice given by real mentors who
seem to know what they weretalking about was like, you be
the best coach and the creamwill will rise to the top.
Like you be the best coach.
Oh, you talking about Glassman?
Yeah, I'm talking about GregGlassman.
You be the better coach and itdoesn't matter what somebody

(01:02:23):
down the street is doing and.
it's bullshit.
Like you can be the most amazingcoach in town.
You are the most amazing coach.
No, but I'm not saying that.
I'm, I'm not trying to like putmyself

Tali (01:02:36):
up there.
No, I know.
I just want you to know thatthat's how I feel.

Cody (01:02:39):
I'm just saying that that does not make your business
successful.
Because if somebody canoutmarket you out, network you,
outshine you out, location you,those things matter.
Fuck yeah, they do.
And to say that, you know, ifyou build it, they will come, is

(01:02:59):
just, it's, it's a fantasy froma movie.
It's not reality.
And so that caused me to kind ofspiral into this comparison loop
cuz it's like, God, I thought Iwas being the best I could be,
and yet I have like 23 fuckingmembers here after three years
and this guy's got like 75members after three months.
Like, what is happening?

(01:03:20):
I was just, and it it, I took ahuge hit.
Like psychologically from that,when I'm not a competitive
person, like if I had alreadyhad an established gym that was
like, like I said, paying thebills, I could draw a salary.
My family was supported.
People in the gym were, werethriving and we have, you know,
this great growing community.

(01:03:42):
Then somebody else doing thesame thing down the street would
not have affected me negatively.
I would've been like, all right,that's so cool.
We should get together.
We should do competitionstogether.
We should do shared events.
You know, we, we should be onthe same train together.
How exciting.
But when I had been knocking myhead against a wall for three
years and then somebody comes inin three months and just makes
it look easy, fuck.

(01:04:04):
That was hard.
That

Tali (01:04:05):
was hard.
We also, we also did talk aboutmentorship and that you gotta
shop around, you know, find theright situation.
That resonates.
Yeah.
And I know that mentorship issomething that you've wanted to
invest in for a long time, buthow many people were holding you
back from doing that?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
A lot of people were, that youwere working with, whether it
was your.
business partners or your part,your romantic partner.

(01:04:27):
Yeah.
Who was like, do not invest inthis.
Yeah.
And when your money's tied upwith other people, you can't
just go rogue.
Mm-hmm.
you know, like there are realrestraints and you have wanted
to have a business coach foreverand now we're doing it.

Cody (01:04:41):
Yeah.
It's funny too, I don't mindsharing the numbers, do you?
About what?
About our coach experience?
I don't think so.
So back then I was reallywould've benefited from, I think
even in hindsight now fromworking with Chris Cooper and
Two Brain Business which I'lllink to for any coaches that are

(01:05:01):
out there, you should check'emout.
And it's so funny because backthen it was like two grand.
That's all I needed.
Whoa.
Was like, whoa.
Two grand to get started withthem.
And it was just thisinsurmountable hurdle that we
never seemed to have enoughmoney to spend on hiring this
business mentor that could help.
Yeah, and I'm sure

Tali (01:05:18):
there was money for all sorts of other

Cody (01:05:19):
things.
Oh yeah.
Well, when some cash flow wouldcome in, a lot of times it
wasn't from my source.
It was like my ex-wife'sinheritance come in, or my new
business partners would bring ina bunch of money.
And so the money wasn't mine tospend.
So I would be like, we should dothis.
We should do this mentorshipthing.

(01:05:39):
And they're like, no, I think 10new rowers is a better
investment, you know?
Oh man.
And it's like so.
The reason I bring up thespecific numbers now though, is
that you and I just made thedecision to hire a business
coach for$10,000.
Yep.
And

Tali (01:05:55):
and we didn't pay that up front.

Cody (01:05:57):
No.
I mean, we're, we're paying aloan.
Yeah.
And so we basically took abusiness loan to get the
business coach and a lot ofpeople I think would just scoff
at that.
But so far you feel like it'sworth it.
Fuck yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, fuck yeah.
And we're still just scratchingthe surface, like we've like
just again, started a baby.
Yeah.
We are gonna be in this likebusiness systems setup, you

(01:06:19):
know, program, whatever youwanna call it, for the next two
years.
We've been in a month.
So in just a month we've gotmore direction and more dialed
in than we've had in the lastyear.
Yeah.
Because we have found the rightmentor.
So anyway you know, at no pointdoes our business mentor

(01:06:40):
encourage us to compareourselves to other.
people, except for marketresearch.
You know, it's like there's away to break through the noise
by comparison, comparison, butas far as our business
objectives and where we're goingand how fast we can get there,
it's not a, well, you should behere by this time.
It's, let's do this as fast aspossible.

(01:07:01):
Let's it get you profitable asfast

Tali (01:07:02):
as possible.
Mm-hmm.
and that's the main objective.

Cody (01:07:05):
Yeah.
And it's all kind of comparisonwith ourselves.
Like, what are we doing?

Tali (01:07:12):
And well, it's giving us a chance to, to develop new
skills.
Mm-hmm.
you know, like I was saying,maybe if I had the skills to
compartmentalize my personallife and my weightlifting life,
maybe I would've been wildlymore successful.
You know, I like to think that Idid a lot with the time that I
was there, but I could have keptgoing and built off of that than
feeling like I'm restarting.

(01:07:32):
Yeah.
Which, you know, has its ownpath and beauty to it too.
I'm just saying, looking back,it's easy to feel that way.
Yeah.

Cody (01:07:42):
So I put on here metrics episode 23, which is the one we
just published.
So that's gonna be, by the timethis comes out, it's gonna be
kind of old.
But episode 23, we talk aboutmetrics.
And I think this is an importantconjunction in here with
comparison because if you're,your metrics are based off of
other people, that's a, we havea natural tendency to compare

(01:08:07):
ourselves to other people.
But if your metrics are on yourown, like, have I been more
consistent this month on thispractice that I want to do more
than last month?
Am I making progress on thislift?
You know, it's, it's an internalmetrics system that I think can
help bypass some of thiscomparison because you can see

(01:08:29):
progress in yourself.
This also relates to an articlethat I just posted on our
website too, so I'll link backto that as well, but, it relates
to the idea that if you're nottaking metrics, I think it's
easier to fall into thecomparison trap.
Yeah.
Because if you're not takingmetrics, it's easy just to look
around you for reference, right.
Of whether you're improving ornot.
And the only way you can do thatis to compare yourself to other

(01:08:51):
people.

Tali (01:08:51):
Right.
And I, sorry, I was justthinking about how, I probably
mentioned in that episode that,you know, WAG has like 15
different markers of progress.
Mm-hmm.
so that, you know, if you feellike one area you're not making
progress, like, like the obviousones, like weight and
composition.
Like, is my sleep better?
How are my joints feeling?

(01:09:12):
Like there are lots of differentways to re remind yourself that
you are making progress and thatyou are creating change in your
life.
And I think it does really helpto have various points for
reference and data.

Cody (01:09:28):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
So I guess that's one takeawaywe could put on the podcast here
is just if you find yourselfcomparing yourself to others too
often, discouraged by otherpeople's success, you know,
overly competitive in any arenaperhaps take some time and write
down some metrics that you wantto start tracking for yourself

(01:09:51):
that are internal metrics.
And by internal, I mean withinyour control.
You know, we, you brought thatup a little bit ago and I meant
to really highlight it that youdon't always have control over
other people.
And so in a competitive sport,you know, you don't have control
over your competition'sperformance.
No.
You only have control overyours.
And so it's very important to inlife, recognize what you have

(01:10:15):
control over and what you don't.
Yeah.
And you know, it's like theserenity prayer, you know, kind
of thing.
Like the wisdom to know thedifference.
Yes.
And.

Tali (01:10:25):
Because we create so much of our own suffering.
Mm-hmm.
and this is another one of thoseexamples or one of those arenas
where we really can create a lotof our own suffering.
And how unnecessary is that?
Yeah.
It's just a shift in focus.

Cody (01:10:37):
Yeah.
And it just kind of goes back tothat mistake that I had made
comparing myself to the othergym in town that, you know, it's
like their success didn't haveanything to do with me one way
or the other.
It didn't affect my gym.
I mean, they were across town.
I, you know, I eventually, Iactually sent people to his gym

(01:10:57):
at some point because it's like,well, they got a, well, a good
sport band, they got a lot of,you know, competitor type people
over there, and you want to docompetitions, so maybe that'd be
a better environment for you.
And I had like a family gym, youknow, lots of various people in
there.
And so I, I think I was betterat modifying workouts and making
sure that anybody at any levelcould kind of participate and.

(01:11:20):
I came to recognize that therewas a contrast in the gyms and
so I'd refer people out to him,but there was still a lot of
like pain up front in that thatwas pointless because I didn't
need to be comparing myself tothem.
Yeah.
That was just my frame of

Tali (01:11:35):
reference though.
But it might've beeninteresting, like if you met up
with that gym owner and let themknow more about you.
Mm-hmm.
and then if they get a clientthat doesn't really fit in with
them, they'd be like, check outCody's gym.
Yeah, I tried and that was likewhat I was saying earlier about
like, it's almost like thetaking your fear to tee.
Mm-hmm.
is like, try to make thatopponent less of your opponent

(01:11:59):
in that way.
Like you can have respect and afriendship even, even though
you're in quote unquotecompetition with each other.
You know, all of myweightlifting friends, not all
of'em, but a lot of myweightlifting friends were quote
unquote competition of mine.
Yeah.
Like one of my Favorite peopleto compete with Chelsea, who
lived down in Eugene.

(01:12:21):
Like I loved hanging out withChelsea.
And she and I would often becompeting against each other.
You know, like not all meetswere big enough that like we
would have our own flight forweight class.
It would be like a SinclairTotal, whoever lifted the most
per pound body weight, you know,that that puts us all in the
pool together.
Mm-hmm.
and I did better at meats that Iembraced that friendship over

(01:12:46):
the competition when I felt likeI had to beat someone.
It all went to shit.
It really did.
Yeah.
It just didn't allow me to do mybest because my priorities were
off.
No, that's interesting.
My priorities were not aboutmyself and being in my body and
being able to make correctionsYeah.
In a four second lift.
You know, like those things arereally important to grasp in
order to compete well.

(01:13:07):
But if I'm concerned about whatshe's doing over there, my focus
is in the wrong place.
Yeah.
I can't manage myself.
Yeah.

Cody (01:13:15):
Yeah.
Well think about the otherarenas that we can, we can do
that in

Tali (01:13:21):
I'D in our, I'd like to take Yeah, for sure.
I'll have to sit and think aboutthat though.
But one thing that I did writedown, you were saying to maybe
take a moment and write downsome different markers for
progress.
Another little exercise that Iwanna suggest.
And I thought about making thisas a part of our five questions
for our partners that we'regonna be working with.

(01:13:43):
No one can blank like I can.
And then with our partners, it'dbe like, no one can blank like
you do And I think when it comesto the partnership, like it
gives your someone anopportunity to see what their
partner sees in them.
Mm-hmm.

(01:14:03):
as being their.
What makes them special.
And I think that that's reallysweet to have that exchange.
But I think it's also reallyimportant to be aware of what
your superpower is and to leadfrom that, you know, bring the
focus back.
Yeah.
Don't be focused on like whatthat person can do.
Yeah.
Because that's them.

(01:14:24):
Right.
And you should be happy forthem.
Yeah.
That's what

Cody (01:14:26):
kind of what I was trying to allude to is that yeah, I
don't look at business ascompetition.
Well it

Tali (01:14:31):
helps to be older.
I think my very first note wasthis is really a concept that I
only feel like I understand nowin my thirties.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You know, being out of school isreally helpful.
And I feel like living out hereis really helpful.
A lot of the folks that I grewup with, I'm gonna venture to

(01:14:53):
guess that most of them probablyhave master's degrees.
They probably live reallycomfortably.
You know, a lot of them camefrom family money also.
And I always felt reallydifferent from all of them and a
lot of that I felt reallyashamed of, and, you know, I

(01:15:13):
would run into them like hereand there in early adulthood
like in my early twenties whenwe're all kind of like figuring
out stuff on our own.
And I would have people who werelike, some of my best friends,
like, rub that shit in.
Mm-hmm.
of like all the stuff that theywere doing.
And it did not seem like it camefrom a place of like, you know,
it's kind of like when you talkto people in a conversation,

(01:15:35):
like you ask them questions toshow that you are interested in
them.
Mm-hmm.
where as, you know, whensomeone's just talking about
themselves all the time, itreally feels like they could
give two fucks about what'sgoing on in your life.
Yeah.
And I just have one friend inmind that.
We were always kind ofcompetitive with each other when
it came to boys and popularityand stuff like that.

(01:15:59):
And I remember meeting her,meeting up with her an adult
life cuz we were living in thesame neighborhood and I was
really excited to see her.
I would've loved to catch upmore, but I don't know if this
is just the way I felt and I waslike being overly sensitive
about it and kind of tappinginto that competitive groove we
had.
But it felt like that had notchanged.

(01:16:22):
That she was just wanting to oneup me and make me feel bad about
stuff.
And yeah, I ended up juststaying away from that
relationship cuz maybe thatgroove was so deep that I
wouldn't have been able to likecome from my best self.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Cody (01:16:39):
Well I think that's an important lesson too, is to
choose your environment as muchas you can and choose your
association as much as you can.
Yeah.
That's two things we don't getin school and These artificial
environments like school rushhour traffic, like all these
kind of things.
These, I was just thinking thesereally artificial environments

(01:17:00):
tend to bring out this aspect ofus of comparison and competition
and nature isn't so much thatway.
You know, the, there's an ideaof Darwinian Darwinian being
survival of the fittest, and soit's presented as a competitive
arena of species, and that's notnecessarily always the case.

(01:17:24):
In fact, if you really look atnature and evolution, it's more
often a.
cooperation ver versus acompetition.

Tali (01:17:33):
And that cooperation has to start with you.
Yeah.
You cannot force other people todo it for you to make you more
comfortable.
Yeah.
You have to kind of let thatshit go yourself.
Yeah.
I've noticed that a lot in myadulthood.
Like I said, this is kind of anewer thing that I have
internalized where, you know, innew friendships that I'm making,

(01:17:54):
like it's easy to feel likecompetitive with, you know,
people who feel very similar tome or same age or have this or
that.
And I've had to just kind oflike let my guard down and offer
myself holy and to be like, I'mnot trying to be competitive
with you in order for thatperson to let their guard down

(01:18:15):
too.
Mm-hmm.
I have to give up the gamefirst.
Yeah.
Otherwise, could have riddenthat out forever.

Cody (01:18:22):
But I think you bring up a good point too, with choosing
your association, because ifpeople aren't into cooperation,
then sometimes you just gottalet'em go.

Tali (01:18:31):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, some people fuckingthrive on being competitive.
I mean, yeah.
And maybe not competitive, buteven being like, as far as to
say like bullies, like they getoff on that.
Granted, being a bully comeswith its own facades and like
there's a lot of acting outfrom, you know, things that
other people cannot change forthem.

(01:18:52):
But I think competitiveness orbeing a competitive person, you
have to decide how you want toengage with that.
You have to make that choice.
Yeah.
Otherwise it'll turn into amonster.
And that monster might be theaggressor or it might feel like
you're being like someone'sbeing aggressive towards you.

(01:19:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Cody (01:19:16):
Yeah.
You got anything else you wantedto bring up?
We have a coaching call in

Tali (01:19:22):
seven minutes.
Seven minutes?
Okay.
We should probably wrap it upthen, Okay.
That's not very much time.
Yeah, sure.
Anything else?
No, I think this is a great onebecause I think competition can
feel very one-sided and I lovethe beauty of it.
As well, like I've been promptedto participate in a power

(01:19:44):
lifting meet in seven months andI've asked you if you wanna do
it with me, and I don't know ifit's gonna go through or not,
because I don't necessarily careto compete and bench press.
But part of me is like, If Ihave to, maybe I'll try to
embrace it.
But what the idea of competitiondoes for me in terms of my
motivation and excitement aroundsomething is really fucking

(01:20:04):
magical.
So that's something that'sreally cool about it that is
relevant right now.
So I hope to keep you all tunedin on what happens there.
And maybe I'll be a competitivepower lifter this coming year.

Cody (01:20:18):
Well it can just be fun anyway.
Yeah.
Well, not to compare, but I'mreally glad that you were on it
today cuz I feel like I was notOh, on it, but, thanks.
Comparing to myself as well, Ithink you know, I've done better
in the past, but I'm glad youcarried the show.
Yeah, thanks.
I appreciate it.

Tali (01:20:35):
See, thank your opponents.
Yeah.
For what they do for your lifeand for your podcast show,

Cody (01:20:42):
So thanks hun.
I love you.
Thank you.
I love you too.
And we'll see y'all next week.

Tali (01:20:46):
Next week.
This episode was produced byTali Zabari and Cody Limbaugh.
Check out our writing, coachingservices and home studying
adventures at live all yourlife.com.
For show notes, resourcesmentioned, or to submit a
question or contribution, clickon the podcast tab.