032 Those Who Cannot Do, Teach!: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep.22

Teaching is a separate skill set from the subject that is being taught. Seeking the best mentor can sometimes be tricky because that person may or may not be a shining example of where you want to go. This week we discuss some of these nuances and some valuable tips about some counterintuitive ways to learn. 

00:00 Intro

00:44 A Jewish Christmas?

05:48 The difference between being an athlete and being a coach, is it true that "Those Who Cannot Do, Teach"?

06:47 Teaching as a form of learning

07:52 Bob Bowman's entire athletic career was comprised of 3 years of swimming in college, and one year as team captain, but he was a coach for 30 years and one of his students went on to set an all-time record for most Olympic gold medals. Michael Phelps won 23 gold medals under the instruction of Bob Bowman.

09:44 The flip side: Someone who's living a destructive lifestyle but giving you advice

15:01 A good litmus test for identifying a good mentor is to look at the results they get for their students. Ref. Episode 022 How To Utilize A Good Coach or Mentor: The Philosophy Of Fitness

24:11 Ed Mylett: “You are Most Qualified to Help the Person You Used to Be.” Cody's story of becoming a Personal Trainer at the peak of his unhealthy phase- losing 70 lbs as he was earning his first certification

28:28 Just because someone is an expert, doesn't mean they have the skills to effectively teach

31:16 Some pics from the nostalgia we're talking about: Cody Judging At CF Regionals, Tali took this photo, but it was years before we met! Tali meeting Greg Glassman with Coach Jean Ann47, founder of CrossFit. Cody meeting Glassman in 2009.

37:37 If you want to learn something on another level, teach it to someone else. This makes you integrate it in new ways as you have to be able to internalize it enough to teach it, it stretches you to outpace your students, it brings you back to curiosity with a "beginners mind" even if it's a familiar topic, and it brings added attention to signal to your brain that this is important

39:56 I highly recommend

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Philosophy of Fitness podcast onthe

Cody (00:23):
Lym Network.

Tali (00:44):
Hey honey.
What's up, baby?
I'm doing so well today.
Today is one of my favorite daysof the entire year.
which

Cody (00:52):
is Christmas Tree Day.
Christmas Tree Day.
And can you wanna give a littlebackground to folks who may not
know

Tali (01:00):
your background?
My background as being a Jew whohas always wanted to celebrate
Christmas.
Yeah.
And had vowed to marry a boy,which is a non-Jewish man, so
that I could have Christmas inmy life.
Is that why you fell in lovewith me?
It's not why It's just an addedbonus.
Okay.
Yeah, as a young child, youknow, I went to Jewish school so

(01:20):
I only knew Jewish kids.
And I always had this incrediblefascination, fascination with
Christmas.
I think it had to do with TV andgoing to see the Nutcracker.
And then I went to public schooland I felt very left out.
And so every year I'd ask myparents for a Christmas tree.
And one year my mom actually gotme one.

(01:40):
It was one of those desktopChristmas trees, and I got an
ornament every day of Hanukkahfor it.
And it was so much fun.
And so once you and I gottogether we had chopped down a
Christmas tree here on theranch.
Mm-hmm.
and then.
Smuggled it home in a body bagin the back of our car.
Yeah.
So

Cody (01:59):
we for those of you who have not gotten your own
Christmas trees before, whenthey're green and you first cut
'em down, the branches arepretty flexible as long as
they're going up toward the topof the tree.
So we just shoved that wholetree into the back of our car
are like our Volkswagen Jetta.
Mm-hmm.
and so yeah, it took up thewhole backseat all the way from
eastern Oregon to Portland,about a

Tali (02:21):
five hour drive.
Yes.
And it was in our shoeboxapartment.
Amazingly it fit.
Mm-hmm.
Because what we've come to findis that every year when we
chopped down tree, that it ismuch bigger in the house than it
appears to be outside, which isgonna be the case again this
year.
Yeah, we usually do it on theday after Thanksgiving, but this
year I worked and so we pushedit to this weekend and we have

(02:44):
some friends coming over and soI was really determined to get
our tree today.
So it is awaiting the defrostingof the vessel that we put it in
each year.
Mm-hmm.
We use a wash tub.
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
I didn't realize I left my phoneon.
Okay, there we go.

(03:05):
We usually put it in a wash tubwith a bunch of bricks.
And yeah, it's sitting frozen inour living room as we speak.

Cody (03:13):
Old metal wash tub.
Yeah.
Like old school.

Tali (03:16):
Yes.
And that was used in this veryhome or not this very home?
It was on this very property.
Yeah.
That your dad's generation wouldtake like real baths in, in
front of the fire.
Yeah.
Which amazing.

Cody (03:28):
Which, it's kind of funny to call it a bath cuz it's a
tiny little.
Wash tub that you would eitherkneel in as a little kid or
you'd stand in it when you gotbigger.
And basically pour water overyourself in standing in front of
the fireplace.

Tali (03:44):
It's like

Cody (03:44):
puddle bathing.
Yeah, Yeah.
And the kids that have to taketurns.
So the last person to go wouldhave to, you know, this is all
like used one.
And Was it

Tali (03:52):
your dad the last, or was he the first?
I know he was one of one ofthose.
Yeah.
I forget.
I know.
Anyway, so today was ChristmasTree Day.
drove out to this grove wherethere are a bunch of young trees
and we put on the Nutcrackermusic and packed hot chocolate
with cinnamon, which is reallygood.
Yeah.

(04:13):
And we used a bow saw to take itdown and we did it together.
You did all the liming.
But I've thought about it manytimes that, you know, in the
future if we don't have accessto fuel for our chainsaws, then
we're gonna have to go oldschool style and do it together.
What are those called?
Or different kind of saw polessaw.

Cody (04:33):
Yeah.
There's lots of different kinds.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, this one was a bowssaw that's about what, three and
a half feet long maybe?
Yeah.
Significant for such a littletree.
So you and I took a, an end andpulled back and forth.
Yeah, it was so fun.
It looked good for the

Tali (04:50):
camera.
Anyway, it was only like threereps each, so it was minimal
work, but.
Looked super cute and yeah, webrought her back home.
Might have to trimm her down alittle bit.
Go through the door.
Yeah, this is a big tree.
We will link to a photo or put aphoto in the show notes or
something cuz it's a

Cody (05:08):
hilarious picture.
We took just the top of a treeand thinking that it was just
the top, it would fit.
And then when we got it, wellfirst of all, it's like sticking
out the back of our Jetta aboutmm-hmm.
six feet.
Mm-hmm.
probably.
That should have been our firstclue.
And then it's

Tali (05:23):
still really hard to tell, like, the frame of reference,
like being out here, it's kindof like when you're watching
weightlifting, like you can'ttell how tiny the people are
because there's nothing on theplatform for reference.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
We

Cody (05:34):
live in an expansive forest and so you get it home
and it is not even gonna fitthrough the door.
No.
Like, not even close.
No.
It's Griswold family Christmasfor those of you who know, you
know.
So today's show, what are wetalking about?
We are talking about thedifference between.

(05:54):
coaching and performing as anathlete, and of course how that
may carry over to other areas oflife.
Often it's said those who cannotdo teach mm-hmm.
which is kind of an annoyingsaying because it kind of makes
it sound like teachers are ineptin a way.
Like if you're a teacher, itjust means cuz you washed out,
cuz you couldn't do something.

(06:14):
On the other hand there's sometruth to the fact that sometimes
the best athletes do not makegreat coaches and sometimes
great coaches were never reallyamazing athletes either.
So they are two different skillsets, but they are

Tali (06:29):
not totally separate.
I think that the, those whocan't do.
Can have almost a follow upstatement of then become experts
and can do, I don't know, I haveto think of better wording, but
to a point I would say that'svery true to my experience.
Mm-hmm.
you know, I considered myweightlifting quote unquote

(06:50):
career, like competitively as myfield work as a coach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cuz I really gravitated towardsweightlifting and I was always
the coach who was called upon toteach on the days that there
were mm-hmm.
there was weightliftingprogramming in CrossFit.
And so I decided that I wantedto lean really heavily into it.

(07:11):
And then that became a totallydifferent story of its own.
And, you know, I was able totake it pretty far in terms of
my level of competition.
Yeah.
So it's totally possible.
I like to think of teaching as amethod of learning.
Mm-hmm.
to kind of
preface

Cody (07:27):
this, I do too.
You and I share that in common,and you're the only other person
I've ever met who's reallyembraced that to the degree that
I do, which is if I want todevelop a skill or learn
something new, one of myfavorite ways to do that is to
turn around and teach it toothers.
Mm-hmm.
it helps me grow as a person inmy knowledge and it motivates me

(07:48):
to learn.
So yeah.
But I did want to talk aboutsome of the contrasts and
comparisons.
Like if we take it to theoutside world, there's two
different skill sets in teachingor mentoring or whatever, and
performing in this case as anathlete.

(08:09):
But you can also, like, a goodexample is Michael Phelps's,
coach, I've used this examplefor years.
You have, because like MiMichael Phelps won 23 gold
medals.
Geez.
Set all kinds of records, right.
and if you're making the claimthat your coach should be as
good of an athlete as you, thisis a very good example.

(08:30):
So his coach is Bob Bowman and Ilooked up some stats here just
to kind of prove my point cuz Iwas kind of talking out my ass.
I just, I knew a little bitabout the guy but I back it up
with some statistics.
So I looked it up today.
And so Michael Phelps won 23Gold medals.
Bob Bowman spent 26 years as acoach, but only three as an

(08:54):
athlete.
Wow.
He swam in college for threeyears and on his last year he
was team captain of his collegeteam.
That's it.
That's his whole athletic careerand the rest of the time has
been coaching.
Wow.
And he's coached one of thegreatest swimmers of all time.
So it just kind of backs up thepoint that.
you can be a great coach.

(09:15):
Never really having been a quoteunquote great athlete.
And it's not to downplay any ofhis accomplishments.
It's just three years ofcollegiate Swimming is not
uncommon.
That's not a, an outliersituation.
Like there are thousands andthousands and thousands of
people who can say that theyswam in college for three years
on a team and maybe even wereteam captain one year.

(09:35):
But not all those athletes havecoached the highest performing
teams and one of the greatestOlympic athletes of all time.

Tali (09:44):
I have a question for you because this is another thing
that you allude to all the time.
Doctors.
Yes.
You have often had a lot ofcriticism for doctors who appear
unhealthy.
You know, we've seen the meme ofall of the folks who sit on like
the highest board of federalhealth organizations, blah,

(10:05):
blah, blah, and they are veryoverweight.
Yeah.
Well definitely don't take verygood care of themselves, you
know, at first

Cody (10:13):
glance.
Yeah.
Well, government officials are awhole category of their own.
I know so I know that

Tali (10:19):
I know I'm baiting you in a a lot of ways, but try to
focus on like this very

Cody (10:22):
specific example, but I think the cliche is a little bit
more like what you might haveseen in the eighties and
earlier.
And I think in the nineties thisstarted to shift and now it's
very rare.
But there was a time when it wasnot uncommon for your doctor to
be like an overweight cigarette

Tali (10:41):
smoker.
Right.
We saw that in Mad Men,remember?
He's like essentially blowingsmoke up her, you know?
Yeah.

Cody (10:48):
and, and so these are supposed to be medical
physicians and I think it mayhave been excusable a little bit
in like maybe the forties orfifties because first of all,
obesity was a very rare backthen compared to now.
And second prob probably thedangers of cigarette smoking
were not.

(11:08):
Well known, like there was liturlegit a time when that wasn't
very well known.
But by the time you're in the1980s, if you're a physician and
you're smoking like chain smokerand you're overweight and you're
not taking care of yourself andyou're like a cardiologist or
something, that, that's aproblem for me.
That's, that's a level ofhypocrisy.
That's, that goes beyond thecontrast of athlete and coach.

(11:31):
That is like do as I say, not asI do.

Tali (11:35):
Yeah.
But if you think about thecomplexes that you and I have
experienced as people who didnot start out really athletic
and became athletic coaches unhave had a lot of imposter
syndrome.
Yeah.
And especially now, like gettingthings started again with our
coaching and being, you know,not in our best shape anymore.

(11:56):
I, I wonder about that in termsof the physicians and things
that we see who might not be thepicture of health, but they sure
as hell know a lot more than Ido.
Mm-hmm.
So it's, it's something toconsider, I think.
Yeah.
You know, just because, youknow, you can be an expert
without being a model athlete.

(12:17):
We see it all the time.
Yeah.
I mean, it would be great forcoaches to be able to like fully
demonstrate and embody whatthey're saying.
I think you do have a lot morecredibility, that's for sure.
But it isn't necessary.
We've seen coaches who are like,you know, not super physically
fit anymore.
A lot of people coach into oldage.
You absolutely can.

(12:38):
I remember you were saying atCrossFit level two seminar that
you did, or a certification thatyou did that you had to show
that you could coach without.
you know, you could do verbalcues mm-hmm.
you could do it withoutspeaking.
You could do it withoutmovement.
Yeah.
And those are all reallyimportant skills to possess as a
coach.
And you could rely on one veryheavily if you don't have the

(13:04):
physical chops to back it up,whether it was ever at all.
Yeah.
Or not

Cody (13:08):
anymore.
Well, a good example of that inmy personal coaching career is
that I coached probably, Idunno, I would say somewhere
between five to seven people.
I coached them to their firstmuscle up before I could do my
own same.
And I I knew the mechanics wellenough.
I knew from watching othercoaches how to coach it, but how

(13:31):
to cue it, how to spot it, allthose kind of things.
But I also just knew themechanics of what needed to
happen and was able toarticulate that to people who
were strong enough to followthrough on my instructions.
Sure.
Even though I was not, and so Icouldn't demo

Tali (13:44):
it.
Isn't that fascinating?
Yeah.
But that's also because you andI have watched so many reps.
Yeah.
It's wild.
Yeah.
Like we had talked about how wecan easily see when someone is
moving optimally for their ownbody and when they're not, even
if we don't know them.
I, I feel like it's that samekind of skill that you and I are

(14:05):
able to absorb all those repsthat we see and really be able
to explain those movements evenif we can't do them ourselves.
I'm trying to think if there'sanother movement like that.
Because I have helped people totheir first muscle up as well.
Mm-hmm.
and.
I don't have very much muscle upexperience at all.
So yeah, I think that's reallyfascinating.

(14:27):
Yeah.
That we have the ability to dothat.

Cody (14:30):
Well, even on a more minor degree, like with weightlifting,
I've coached people who were waystronger than I was to be able
to dial in their movement, toimprove their weightlifting,
even though they're uplifting meto begin with, you know?
So that's kind of anotherexample.
It's like your coach doesn'thave to be the best athlete.
And that's why I always broughtup Michael Phelps's coach.

(14:52):
It's like if he was as good asMichael Phelps, he'd be in the
fucking pool.
Like he would be Yeah.
He'd be your opponent.
Yeah.
And so yeah, I think it's kindof a ridiculous notion.
And the, what I wanted to pointout this like helpful in this
concept as far as, you know, wealready did an episode on
finding a good coach and thedifference between coaching and
mentoring, and we kinda wentdown the rabbit hole there and

(15:13):
that was a fun episode.
But one thing that I think is.
useful as far as being adistinction between, you know, a
coach who may not embodyfitness, for instance, but does
that coach have a track recordof a lot of great results for
his clients or her clients?
Mm-hmm.
like that, that is what youwanna look for.

(15:34):
So even, for instance, abusiness mentor, if you're
looking at a business mentorwho, you know, obviously you
don't want somebody who knowsnothing and is broke you don't,
you don't want some brokebusiness mentor, but at the same
time, maybe you want to gofurther than your business
mentor is in their personal lifeand then their business

Tali (15:54):
life.
Well, we've talked aboutoutgrowing your coaches Yes.
And when to identify that.
But this, or how

Cody (15:59):
to, but my point is, is that the way you find a great
coach is not to look at thecoach's results.
You look at the coach's studentsresults mm-hmm.
I see.
If that coach has mentored.
You know, 30 other people tobecome multimillionaire business
owners, then obviously theircoaching seems to be effective,
even if that's not where theyare, which is probably unlikely,

(16:22):
but I'm

Tali (16:23):
just Right.
In that particular scenario,they're probably making good

Cody (16:26):
money.
Yeah, I'm just saying.
So whether that's a physician ora business mentor or a coach for
fitness, athleticsrelationships, you know, that
kind of thing.
Like you might, for instance,have a relationship coach who's
single, maybe that person is notin a relationship at the moment,
but if they have a track recordof a lot of couples that they've

(16:47):
helped in very positive ways,then that's a better clue.

Tali (16:51):
There used to be a reality show called, I think it was
called like the MillionaireMatchmaker and it was this
Jewish, modern day yk kind oflady who would meet or put
together millionaires with.
you know, and put'em on datesand things like that.
And she would play matchmakerand she would get a lot of
criticism for being single.

(17:12):
Which I think does fit into thisparticular situation just right.
But I think that's also reallynice to hear.
As a coach, I always feel like Ineed to fight to stay on top or
to stay ahead because that'sgonna give me the recognition
that I need.
Mm-hmm.
to be considered a good coach.

(17:32):
But that's kind of my owncomplex.
I don't think anybody else isdemanding that of me.
But I have had situations, likefor instance, when I worked for
Beaverton CrossFit, which was ashort time, a very mysterious
ending to that job, that hauntedme for years.
I always had a complex that likeI wasn't fit enough to be one of

(17:54):
their coaches.
I don't think that's true.
I don't think that's true.
I think that was easy for me tobelieve at the time.
But

Cody (18:02):
because you were kind of on the top of your weightlifting

Tali (18:05):
career.
I was on the top of my game atthe time.
Yeah.
So it was extra confusing to me.
But it just goes to show thatlike that imposter syndrome like
runs so deep, even if I am atthe top of my game.
Yeah.
You know, like that the way thatI saw myself as less than, or
still the person that I wasbefore I put in all this work.
Yeah.
Was still kind of showing itshead.

Cody (18:26):
Yeah.
I think I'm either at anexperience level or an age now
where I can recognize that ofmyself.
Like I don't need to be thefittest person in the room.
I don't need to be embarrassedby being a coach who's not the
fittest person in the room.
But I am also walking the walkwhen I'm telling people to
prioritize their nutrition,their exercise, their

(18:49):
relationships.
I can feel confident aboutgiving that advice, cuz I'm
doing that.
Oh yeah.

Tali (18:54):
Even if we're not doing it like a hundred percent, you and
I are talking about that shitlike on the daily, all day.
Yeah.
All the time.
Every meal.
Like some like that conversationcomes up.

Cody (19:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're weighing and measuringfood, or at least we're being
very aware of it on the daysthat we might not measure
everything perfectly.
At least we're, we're not justmindlessly throwing stuff down
our throat and,

Tali (19:15):
and even the things that maybe we shouldn't eat, we
always split.
Yeah.
Which I love so much.
That's one of my favorite thingsthat you and I do.
Yeah.
Because I get to have what Iwant and we get to share the
experience mm-hmm.
And share the calories.
So Thanks.
Yeah.

Cody (19:27):
It's been great for me too.
So yeah, I, I think that walkingthe walk doesn't necessarily
mean you have to be the best orbetter than your athletes or, or
students of any kind.
But I think walking the walk isimportant.
So I was afraid this might be areally, really short episode
because I didn't have a lot ofnotes.
I've kind of covered'em all in,you already covered everything,

(19:48):
but I'm, but I'm certainlywilling to explore any thoughts
that you have on this subject.

Tali (19:53):
Well, there's a story that always comes to mind when you
and I have had thisconversation, and that is when I
took my CrossFit level one certthe first time.
So this was back in like 2011and it was kind of a crazy time
in CrossFit.
It was kind of like where thebig wigs were still really
accessible.

(20:13):
Hmm.
So Todd Woodman was theFlowmaster Nadia Shaila was the
gym owner, and we had this groupof, I'm gonna say quote unquote
coaches who were also like gamesathletes at the time who were.
a part of the team and likecoaching us that weekend.

(20:34):
And I'm kind of trying to figureout whether or not I wanna
disclose who this person was,but let's just say, let's just
say there was a games athletewho we had to break up into
different stations and kind ofrotate through different
specialty movements on how tocoach them.
And this athlete was supposed tobe coaching or teaching us how

(20:56):
to coach muscle ups, which iskind of funny that that came up.
I just remember, you know, he'shanging from the rings and he
says something like, stupidsimplistic, like, and you just
pulled your chest and thenyou're up and that's it.
and I mean, all of us had tohave been thinking like, Okay.

(21:20):
That's not helpful.
not helpful at all.
And you know, this guy is abeast.
He's stupid strong, can do themwith his eyes closed.
Strict kip whatever.
But that is not an effective wayto teach anyone anything.
You know, that kind of remindsme of like math class, you know,
there are these like superbrainiacs who are able to speak

(21:40):
this language in numbers, tryingto translate it to a bunch of
people who don't understand.
Yeah.
And just doing it over and overagain doesn't teach

Cody (21:49):
you shit.
It's funny that you would bringthat up because my college math
professor, I just remembersitting in class and I, I think
I was following along prettywell, cuz I like math.
Weird weirdo.
I know.
But but it was, I was beingstretched for sure.
Mm-hmm.
but, people in next to me wouldbe looking at me and just going

(22:11):
like, what the fuck is hetalking about?
Yes.
And, and the professor was likethis old curmudgeony dude who
literally would turn his back toeverybody.
Mm-hmm.
right on the chalkboard for 20minutes straight and never even
turn around.
And he'd be talking and writingand half the people are looking
around like, should I even be inthis room Cause this is not

(22:31):
good.
That's a gotta be a commonexperience.
And then he, he seemed so likegenerous.
He'd turn around and he wouldask like, does anybody have any
questions?
And then somebody raised theirhands and they'd ask a question
and his way of answering itwould be like to turn around and
start writing on the boardagain.
And it was just like that, thatyou're not helping.
I know.

Tali (22:49):
I really wish math was taught in a different way,
because that was my experiencetoo, when I think about college
as well, where I had a verysimilar experience.
I had a female professor and shewould also have her back towards
us as she was just jottingthings down on the board and.
I was almost too afraid to lookaround.

(23:10):
I didn't wanna be the only onewho was like totally fucking
lost.
But the problem with thatsituation is like, that teacher
is on a runaway train, not evenlike checking in with the group.
And then when they do, like,you're so far behind, that's
like, where do I even begin toask questions?
And that's how this situationfelt at the CrossFit
certification where teachingpeople to teach is very

(23:35):
different.
Mm-hmm.
teaching people how to move isvery different.
Yep.
Moving alone is different.
Like those are three differentthings.
Yeah.
Teaching someone how to coachand learning those skills.
I, I don't know how ma, how muchof that has been explicitly
taught to me or how much hasjust been watching other coaches
mm-hmm.
and absorbed

Cody (23:56):
through your Yeah.
Experience.
Yeah.
Totally.
Yeah.
You know, that really brings upa good point and I'm gonna
butcher this quote, so do it.
I will put the real quote inthe.
Episode description.
So just scroll down and read thedescription and you'll, you'll
find it.
But the quote was something ofto the effect of that your
challenges are what make youuniquely qualified to teach

(24:18):
other people who are also goingthrough the same, same
challenges.

Tali (24:22):
I love that so much.
It's hard to choose just one,isn't it?
Yeah.
Well,

Cody (24:25):
and I think that really speaks to me as a lot of my
qualities, I feel like as acoach, are helping people really
overcome challenges, becauseI've had a lot of challenges not
being an athlete.
I was not athletic in school.
I w I got married when I wasreally young, put on a bunch of

(24:47):
weight at my heaviest, I think Iwas around 2 38, like I was
around.
I was close to two 40.
At, at my heaviest, and I knowsome strong people out there who
were two 40.
I was not, I was just reallyoutta shape.
Two 40.
Wow.
Sickly, you know, just not, itwasn't good and, and still so
handsome.
Thanks When I began to study formy first personal trainer

(25:11):
certificate, that's when I, Iwas at my heaviest and I lost
that weight.
So it took me about six monthsto study for my first trainer
cert because I think it couldhave been a lot faster.
But I was also working likethree jobs, So I would like work
a double shift and then I wouldlike stay up at like one in the
morning and just study for onehour.

(25:32):
And that's what I got.
And so it took about six months,but I was also.
do what I was learning as I waslearning it.
And so by the time I got mycertificate, I was 175 pounds.
Wow.
So I lost, I forget what themath is right now, but it was
like close to 70 pounds.
Right.
That I had lost in like sixmonths or damn nine months or

(25:52):
something like that.
What?
Now I will say that it wasn'tthe healthiest because I was
learning at a certification thatI don't agree with all their
methods anymore.
Mm-hmm.
And it was a, during a time, cuzthis was back in the early
nineties, 93, 94.
Hmm.
And back then everyone was stillon this like low fat kick.
Hmm.
Sad.

(26:13):
So sad, sad.
So I was really, it's

Tali (26:15):
a flavorless

Cody (26:16):
food Well and I was really calorically deficit in order to
lose that way.
Got it.
So it was like a big caloricdeficit with carbs, which meant.
I was low energy and hadheadaches a lot.
Mm.

Tali (26:28):
That's an unfortunate trade off.

Cody (26:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because now knowing that, youknow, I could have been a little
bit more like keto, like alittle higher calories doing
resistance training, feeding mybrain what it needs with healthy
fats, you know, that I couldhave been a different
experience.
But I guess my point is, is thatI didn't start out as an
athlete.
So when people come to me andthey're like, I can't do this,

(26:53):
it's more than a mechanicalissue for me.
It's like, I know what thatfeels like, I've mm-hmm.
fucking know what that feelslike to not literally not feel
like you can do what the coachis asking of you.
So it's easy for me to modifyfor that person, help them
through an injury, help themovercome nausea, you know,
because I used to be the kid whopuked every day in pe mm-hmm.

(27:14):
And the teacher literally toldme eventually my last two years
of school, that I didn't have todo PE cuz he was just tired of
me puking in the locker roomevery day.
Oh.
And so, I like, I know what itis to be that kid or that guy.
And so I think that's one of mystrengths as a coach.

Tali (27:29):
Totally.
And it seemed to play out withthis games athlete that he was
kind of in a figurative ivorytower.
Yeah.
You know, where he could notrelate to not knowing how to do
it.
You remember you and I didpistols the other day mm-hmm.
and you were saying, oh, thoselook so good.
And I'm like, well, I've neverhad to work at these.
A pistol is a one-legged squatwhich I would imagine is

(27:53):
considered a more advancedmovement.
Yeah, it is in CrossFit.
It just can be very demanding onyour unilateral strength and
your balance and all sorts ofstuff.
But that's just something I was,I've been able to do from day
one.
I just gave it a try and I coulddo it.
And so this, that's how thisgame's athlete was approaching.

(28:18):
the muscle up was just, yeah.
I already know how to do it.
So how would you know how toteach it if you've never had to
learn it?
Yeah, yeah.

Cody (28:26):
Yeah.
So I, I think that's justanother vote for the idea that
when they say those who cannotdo teach, it's not necessarily
statement of ineptitude.

Tali (28:40):
No.
And it's not a permanent

Cody (28:41):
state, and it's not a permanent state.
Right.
It's it's a jumping off point.
It might actually make theteacher more valuable if they
can relate to students who arestruggling.
Yeah, yeah.

Tali (28:51):
Yeah.
Because they're probably havingto experience other routes,
other methodologies that forfolks who can take on those
skills naturally mm-hmm.
never have to worry about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it'd be great for there tobe a math course from somebody
who is, who struggled Yes.
Who's like very more likeartistically inclined or

(29:13):
visually inclined, like, thatwould be so great to learn from
somebody like that.
Yeah.
But you tend to learn fromexperts.
Mm-hmm.
which is amazing.
But do those experts know how totranslate that?
How to teach to other people?
Yeah.
Who are not.
Yeah.
Yes.
That's why teaching is such anincredible skill.
Mm-hmm.
And when it's done right, it'sjust super magical.

(29:35):
And I remember being veryinspired by my CrossFit coaches
and I was just about to enter mytwenties and I was thinking
like, that's who I'd wanna be inmy twenties.
Like, they look like they have areally fun life, their bodies
look great, and they in thisamazing community.
And I just definitely wanted apart of that.
And I was super self-consciousthat, ooh, maybe it's too early

(29:58):
for me to get my CrossFitcertification.
But I had written myself a notehere that, you know, I spent
close to$25,000 for.
My last two years of schoolmm-hmm.
and I paid a thousand dollarsfor my CrossFit certification.
Mm-hmm.
And guess which one has servedme most or had the most return

(30:19):
on my investment?
Oh yeah.
Million times over that.
Oh yeah.
CrossFit

Cody (30:23):
certification.
I mean, that, that thousanddollars certification provided a
career for you that ended uppaying off a lot of your student
debt.
Yeah.
For,

Tali (30:31):
for college.
And that money that I paid myCrossFit certification on that
was like money that I got frommy family.
We all get this like$5,000stipend from a relative who had
passed.
Mm-hmm.
And I spent a thou, it wassupposed to be like my living
expenses.
For like the year or somethingand I ended up using a thousand

(30:53):
dollars of it without asking onmy CrossFit certification.
I remember being in my dorm roomat school when I bought, when I
paid for it and I was like,fuck, my mom might kill me.
But I mean, that has been whathas been, that's what's been
feeding me for the last 10, 12years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amazing.

Cody (31:13):
Yeah, I remember I had to fight tooth and cloth for my
first crosser too, cuz athousand was a lot for me at the
time.
Yeah.
And then to become an affiliatewas another thousand.

Tali (31:27):
Wow.
It is so much more now.
Maybe two.
I can't remember.
It was like$2,500 10 years ago.

Cody (31:33):
Yeah, it goes, it goes up and up and up and up and people
were grandfathered in.
So I was a little earlier.
The, the sick part was, is thatI wanted to become an affiliate
when it was 500 a year.
Dang.
But I wasn't certified yet.
Aw.
And so it was like$1,500 that Ihad to come up with a thousand
for the cert and 500 for thething.
And it just seemed like so muchmoney at the time.
It was funny to look back onbecause it's like, it doesn't

(31:54):
seem like that big a deal now,but back you

Tali (31:57):
have a lot less financial pressure on you now, though you
are not raising childrenanymore.
Yeah, I was trying

Cody (32:02):
to.
Yeah, I mean, we had three kidsat home and a, that's a lot of
kids stay at home mom and metrying to like, make the gym
profitable enough to take careof my family of five.
So yeah, scary was a lot ofpressure.
But the reason I bring it up isthe story is great because I got
my certification and then it'slike, well, we'll get the
affiliate, we'll get theaffiliate when it happens.

(32:24):
Like, we'll just keep trying tosave money.
And the cost kept going up everyyear and So it was like getting
harder and harder.
And we went to a gym party at alocal bar and a bunch of my
members were there and I thinkit was my birthday, and they
like cut a cake and everything.
And then they handed me anenvelope and it was a cashier's

(32:46):
check for enough for theaffiliation that my members paid
for our CrossFit affiliation forthe first year.
Oh

Tali (32:53):
gosh.
Yeah.
That gives me chills.

Cody (32:55):
Babe.
You know what I, I think thatwas for my cert.
That was for my cert.
Yeah, they paid for my cert andthen Greg Glassman comped my
first year cuz I met him inperson and he is like And you
told him the story?
Yeah.
And I told him, I, he's like,why aren't you?
Well I was asking questions andhe is like, he got, he like
singled me out.

(33:15):
He's like, oh, this is like infront of a bunch of people.
Yeah.
And he's like, oh fuck.
He's like, oh, I'm not gonna saywhat he said.
Cause it just sounds likebragging, but No, say what he
said.
I'm curious I don't wanna sayit.
Do it.
Okay.
So I was asking questions abouthis lecture and he just stopped
and was just like, this is asign of a great coach right

(33:35):
here.
What did you ask?
Because of the questions he'sasking.
It was something to do with thefact he was actually talking
about like similar to what wewere talking about right now,
which is like, how do you judgea good coach?
It's not by how well it lookslike they're coaching.
It's how many.
what percentage of people intheir gym can do a muscle up?

(33:57):
Like what, what are the results,stats that they're getting?
Yeah.
And I had asked him somethingabout demographics.
You know, like I I'm in a, I'min Lake Oswego, like it's an
older, wealthy community.
Probably not a lot of like 65year old women who are gonna be
coming in, are gonna be learningto do a muscle up.
And so I, I don't remember whatmy question was, but it was

(34:18):
something to do with the factof, of like relative results
that are appropriate for thecommunity that you're serving
and that a muscle up isn't likethe grand, you know, measure of
fitness or whatever.
And it was more complex thanthat because it's just a foggy
memory, but it was somethingalong those lines.
And anyway, after the conferenceI was talking to him and he is

(34:40):
like, so, how long have you beenan affiliate?
And I'm like, well, I'm not yet.
And he's like, why are you notan affiliate?
And I was like, well, and hegoes, is it the money?
And I'm like, yeah, basically.
And he is like, brings hisassistant over and he is like,
just sign these people up.
Like what's the affiliate name?
And I was like, cross itexcellence.
And he is like, yeah, I likethat a lot.

(35:01):
And so, oh my gosh.
So he comped my first year ofyeah.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
So I got my cert and my I got mycert paid for by my members.
And then my affiliate by Greg

Tali (35:12):
Glassman himself.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That ne would never happennowadays.
I mean I think that's so, gosh,that's so novel, babe.
Yeah, well

Cody (35:20):
it was early grassroots era, you

Tali (35:22):
know?
Yeah.
I'm gonna try to find a photo.
I'm just gonna like scrollthrough Instagram cause I got
rid of my Facebook.
But I have a picture of when Ifirst met him Yeah.
And I was really excited aboutit.
Yeah.
It was at the games.
Gosh, that was such a fun year.
I forget.
It was like the second or thirdyear, I think it was the second

(35:43):
year that Annie Thor's daughterwon.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like losing my shit.
She was like my superhero at thetime.
Yeah.
And I remember meeting Glassmanand Bergner and Sakamoto and all
the big wigs.
It was so cool.
Yeah.

Cody (35:56):
All those years I was a CrossFit affiliate.
I never went to the games.

Tali (36:00):
I'm so sorry to

Cody (36:01):
hear that.
I wasn't, they were fucking fun.
I was a judge at the regionalcompetitions.
Oh, I know

Tali (36:07):
a few

Cody (36:07):
times.
Saw you I was a judge at thevery first regional competitions
ever.

Tali (36:12):
When it was like at a fairground.
Right?
It was in Seattle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember seeing photos fromthat.
And it looks like when we go tothe rodeo here Yeah.
It is Jamie, which is some likeplanks of wood

Cody (36:23):
yeah.
To lift on.
Yeah.
They had planks of wood, like,like just like our gym plywood
thrown down on the concrete.
And then they had Scaffolding,like construction scaffolding
for what?
Pull-ups and everything.
Oh, fuck yeah.
Everything was just onconstruction scaffolding because
that there was no money andthere was no sponsorships and
there was, there were noprofessional athletes.
Like this was way back when.

(36:44):
It was just a grassroots, funthing.
All volunteer.

Tali (36:47):
Gosh, I hope he's so proud of himself.
Greg Glassman.

Cody (36:51):
Yeah, he's

Tali (36:52):
an interesting guy.
He's a really interesting guy,but like what he created was
amazing.
It's a phenomenon.
Yeah.
And there's definitely, I feelvery lucky to have been a part
of those early days.
Yeah,

Cody (37:02):
me too.
Yeah, those early grassrootsdays were really cool.
So fun.
Like really, really cool.
Yeah.

Tali (37:10):
I'm gonna keep scrolling as we're talking.
Okay.

Cody (37:12):
Well, I'll try to find some of these pictures too, in
reference and I'll link to themin the episode description.

Tali (37:18):
Well, and I wouldn't go as far to say that, you know, we're
trying to advocate here forlike, you know, if you wanna
learn something, like couldbecome a coach This just
happened to be an arena where, Iwanted to learn everything I
could.
Mm-hmm.
and it just felt like the rightdecision to make, to be a coach.
And

Cody (37:37):
teaching is a really valuable way to learn something
though.
And I think it's, I think so.
I think it's really overlookedoften.
I can use drawing as anotherexample.
You know, I have drawn off andon throughout my life, but I've
also tutored people on how todraw.
And, and sometimes the, theprocess of helping people

(37:58):
overcome visual blocks helps youto develop your own skills.
Do you

Tali (38:03):
think it's because it's almost like through, or like by
proxy you're having a beginner'smind?
I think, you know, you're alwayshaving to look through someone
else's perspective of like, how.
Approaching something.
I think that's one

Cody (38:19):
side of the coin.
The other is that desire tostretch because I want to be a
good coach.
I wanna be a good teacher, whichrequires me to stretch myself to
learn the material or the skillor whatever it is.
I have to, I have to learn itand it's like I have to learn it
for my student.
So it's almost like an extraincentive for me to actually do

(38:39):
the

Tali (38:39):
fucking work.
Oh, it's a fire under your ass.
For sure.
I mean, I'm sure I've mentionedit already, but a huge reason
that I think our pursuit ofgetting back in shape has been
going so well.
Like it really all started toclick when we got to coaching
again.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I really felt like I needed it.

(38:59):
Yeah.
Like, just to haveaccountability for myself didn't
feel like enough.
Yeah.

Cody (39:03):
Yeah.
Your fitness has reallyaccelerated since you getting
your first client here locally.
Yeah, I've definitely seen that.

Tali (39:11):
I mean, we, we were living and breathing coaching.
Yeah.
That was life.
And you were Coach Cody or CoachC and I'm coach t.
Like those are, that's just whowe were.
Yeah.
And you know, coming back intothat arena, so much of it has
like ATI or become unfamiliarand we're trying to rebuild it
from the bottom.

(39:32):
But it's definitely a hugemotivation for me to walk that
talk or whatever you were sayingearlier.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
We were talking aboutphysicians.
Like it really gets my ass ingear because it allows me to
know what I'm talking about andto be able to speak from
experience, which is by far themost potent to be able to speak
about things theoreticallydoesn't really go far with me.

(39:53):
And I'm gonna assume it doesn'tgo far with other people.

Cody (39:55):
Yeah.
I'll listen to Greg Mccuen'spodcast.
Who is the author of the bookthat you and I are reading
together?
Essentialism.
Okay.
And he often at the beginningand the end of his podcast talks
about how if you really want toretain something valuable from
this podcast within the next 24hours, teach it to somebody

(40:19):
else.
teach the concepts to somebodyelse.
Ooh.
And I think he's, he's ontosomething there, because you and
I have just talked about acouple of, you know, like
there's the motivation factorand then there's also the
beginner's mind.
But there's also something aboutjust being able to de, to
distill something well enough tobe able to explain it to someone
else means that you're reallygrasping it.

(40:40):
And it kind of, I think is asignal for your brain of like,
this is important.
Like, if we're having tocommunicate it to somebody else,
it must be fairly important.
So let's retain this and let's,let's distill it and really

Tali (40:50):
understand it.
You know, what's interesting isthat when I did my new patient
intake form at the doctor theother day, I just established
care for the first time in likethree years.
They for some reason had asked,you know, how do you learn the
best?
And it was like by listening, byreading.
And I think there was one otheroption and I was like none of

(41:11):
these really?
Yeah, well, no, that was not it.
It was something else.
But.
I almost wish the question waslike, how do you retain
information the best?
Mm-hmm.
I, that's how I like to think oflearning or understanding is
like, how well am Iinternalizing that?
Yeah.
And coaching by far has been themost potent for me.

(41:31):
I need to like be all up in it.
I need to do the work Yeah.
In order to be an effectivecoach.
And it's also the same in theother direction where I need to
teach it and explain it tosomebody else, see that click
for them in their movement orpursuit or whatever.
And then it really solidifiesfor me, and which I think is

(41:52):
cool.
Like, it's such a collaborativeexperience.

Cody (41:54):
Yeah.
That's a beautiful way to putit.
Because your, your studentsbecome teachers in a way.
Yes.
For you.
Yeah.
Oh

Tali (42:02):
yeah.
I, I think my c my athletes knowthat I need them as much as they
need me.
Mm-hmm.
it's definitely a collaborativething.

Cody (42:10):
Yeah.
That kind of brings up a pointabout our new business model.
And I do wanna just as a sidenote here as you're listening to
this, if you've heard pastepisodes, you may have heard us
mentioning business models thatkeep coming up And I just want
to explain that it's not becausewe're flaky, it's just that the

(42:31):
way to launch a new business isa little bit different than what
you see on television or likesurvivorship bias of successful
businesses, which is I've gotthis great product idea, so I'm
gonna develop it and then marketit and then sell it and then I'm
successful.
And that's not a great way tolaunch a new business.

(42:53):
A better way is to go ahead andhave an idea and then test it by
doing it, like get it out therein the marketplace as fast as
possible, and then if it doesn'tsell or sells poorly or
whatever, You either tweak it orchange it all together.
And so it's kind of like you,you can't steer a parked car.
So we're get the car movingfirst and then you can begin to

(43:14):
change directions.
So if you've heard pastepisodes, you've heard us
talking about different businessthings that we're starting that
we have not.
And the reason is that we'veniched down our market even
more.
And so we're gonna be coachingexclusively couples online and

(43:35):
not just in fitness, but also intheir relationship.
So it's communication andconnection practices in addition
to their fitness and nutrition.
So that's what we're working oncurrently.
And the reason I circled backaround to this finally is that
I'm excited about that becauseyou and I have so many great
practices already that we do inour relationship, and we're very

(43:57):
intentional with ourrelationship mm-hmm.
but now having students followsome of the things that you and
I do.
makes me really excited becauseI know that's gonna help keep us
sort of like our relationshiptuned up, if you will, for for
months and years to come becausewe will, we will feel that sort

(44:19):
of coaching responsibility to bewalking the walk Yes.
And do it.
And it's stay

Tali (44:23):
dialed in.
Yeah.
It's cyclical.
It's symbiotic.
I think it makes a lot of sense.
I did pull up a photo of me andone of my coaches from way back
when Jean Ann.
Jean Anne, you're the best.
I'll have to, I'll have to tagher cuz she and I are still in
contact.
But this is with Greg Glassmanin 2014.

(44:44):
This is actually the second timeI met him.
Oh, okay.
It appears that I had gotten ridof a bunch of photos of my
ex-boyfriend and I on Instagram,and so I guess that had to be
one of the photos to goprobably.
So I'm gonna save this and I'm,I'm gonna gonna send it to you.
Yeah.
But yes, me and.
Glassman The Glassman is how itwas titled there or captioned.

(45:09):
Gosh, looking back at these oldphotos are so fun.
Look at this.
This is me taking a nap on awhole bunch of bumper plates.
I've seen that one betweenshifts.
It's so good.
Yeah.
Anybody who's coach CrossFit outthere, you know that the
schedule blows.
It's so you gotta squeeze yournaps in wherever you can

Cody (45:24):
and it, I've slept in the gym so many times I've lost
count.
Really?
Oh yeah.

Tali (45:31):
This was my first weightlifting meat ever.
Wow.
Yeah.
You're so young.

Cody (45:36):
I know.

Tali (45:38):
Oh, this is that time that I got all that blood taken and
they couldn't get it.
Oh, isn't that so funny?
Yeah.
Okay.
This will be fun to lookthrough.
You wanna give some backstoryhere?
Yeah, why not?
So, I was just saying that Igot, you know, I established
care and I got some blood workdone that was after six attempts
just this week.

(45:59):
So, Success today.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
She poked me two differenttimes.
Yep.
I went to the clinic and theylooked at me and they're like
we're not confident we can dothis.
Then I went on the Friday beforeand got poked two different
times, no success, and then oneor two other times before that

(46:20):
from the initial nurse who liketook all my vitals.
Yeah.
That was same day.
You had four same day.
Four in the same day.
Yeah.
So I'm a, I'm a tricky poke.
I don't like needles and theydon't like me.
And I, we were just looking deepinto the archives of my
Instagram for that Glassmanphoto and I guess there was a
photo of the last time I had anincredible struggle with this
and it took six different nurseson the same day to get my blood

(46:44):
drawn.
And of course it wasinconclusive.
So I guess that's the story ofmy life right now.
Pin, pin, cushion.
It's all good.
It's all good.
Oh, these are so cute.
Look, the Olympic trainingCenter.
Nice.
I hope that comes up at somepoint.
I have no idea in what categorythat would fall into, but that
was a really incredible time ofmy life.

Cody (47:04):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, if you wanna send meanything to link to in the notes
now do it.
Cause I will, you're gonna losethat.
It's, it's too far back to findagain.
Nah.
Anything else on this whole,like coaches versus athlete or
teacher versus student rolesituation?

Tali (47:20):
I mean, I think it's a good takeaway that even if you
are naturally good at somethingand you are intending to teach
others, you have to learn tobecome a teacher.
Yes.
You know, some people teachnaturally like that in and of
itself is a skill that can comenaturally to folks.
Yeah.
But thinking about teaching as askill is super crucial.
You know, really thinking aboutthe way that you convey

(47:41):
information.
And that can be true inrelationships.
That doesn't even have to be inteaching.
I just think that the way thatwe speak and.
The way that we approach otherswhen we want them to understand
something or understand usrequires tact.
And I've had so many differentcoaches in the past, like

(48:02):
whether it was a weightliftingcoach or a CrossFit coach, you
know, when you're working inCrossFit you usually have like
many different coaches dependingon when you go.
But with weightlifting youusually work with just one or
two.
And I've had so many greatcoaches and they all differ in
their greatness.
Mm-hmm.
and maybe we should just finishby saying like, a shout out to

(48:26):
some coaches that we reallyadmire or like really learned
from.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (48:30):
Well, I, I just want to reiterate a little bit of what
you're saying, cuz I think itcan be summed up with empathy
in, in one word, but.
to be a great teacher, a greatcoach or mentor or whatever, I
think requires someunderstanding that people don't
always think the way you do forsure.
And so they're not gonna learnthe way that you do.

(48:52):
But that doesn't mean thatthey're not capable of
performing or outperforming you.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
right.
So I think,

Tali (49:00):
yeah, don't be weird about it.
I think part of

Cody (49:02):
being, I think part of being a good teacher, mentor
coach is to understand thatpeople might need to hear things
in different ways.
And so if the only way you knowhow to explain something is the
way you learned it or the waythat relates to you, sorry to
say you're probably not a greatteacher, you know, that's your

(49:24):
skillset in your knowledge base.
But to be able to convey it toother people, you have to be
able to come at it fromdifferent, a different angles.
Yeah.
Different ways.
And to not build shame intothat, because, It's just a sort
of biodiversity situation wherepeople obtain skills and
knowledge in different ways.

Tali (49:45):
Yeah.
You know, it would be cool.
I wonder if they did this inyour CrossFit cert too.
Cuz it sounds like the secondone is way more interesting than
the first.
I never did my second one.
I'm actually gonna check in onmy certification Soon as we're
done here.
I wanna know if it's still validcuz not Alex expired.
I

Cody (49:59):
think mine expired

Tali (50:00):
last year.
Mine might not have been cause Ihad to redo it.
Remember?
Oh, right when I was working forpj, so I'm like potentially
right at the cutoff, like fiveyears.
Anyway, I'm wondering if theyhad a Dr.
An exercise where you had to saythe same cue in like five
different ways.

Cody (50:18):
Mm.
I do remember something alongthose lines.
I think it was more a little bitmore broad than that.
Like to get somebody moving in asquat for or whatever.
You might have like fivedifferent cues to get them to

(50:39):
correct something.
But it does, it wasn't likespecific as far as like their
knee positioning, for instance.
It wasn't like five cues forthat one thing, but it was like
five cues for the

Tali (50:49):
squat.
Well, that's why I'm wonderingabout, even just for the one
thing, I feel like there's somany different ways to say the
same thing.
Yeah.
And they don't resonate withpeople in the same way.
I think I've mentioned even onthis podcast how there was there
were so many times where I hadcoaches telling me to push my
knees back right in a lift.
And I was like, what the fuckdoes that even mean?
Like, why am I thinking about myknees?

(51:10):
Yeah.
And then someone said like, keepyour shoulders over the bar, and
it would produce the sameresults, but it was a different
focus.
But that avenue I could takepushing my knees.
I'm not thinking about that.
Yeah.
At all.
Yeah.
it's such an odd thing to thinkabout.
Yeah.
But you hear it all the time.
It must be making sense tosomebody.

(51:30):
Yeah.

Cody (51:31):
I mean, there's quite a few cues that I've picked up
over the years like that.
Like if you're squatting andyou're, your knees should be
sort of pressing to the outsideof the squat, like laterally
side to side.
And so some people are like,well, widen your stance.
Or like, or split the floorapart.
Push your knees.
I was getting to that.
That's, sorry you're too fardown the road.
Sorry.

(51:51):
Sorry, sorry.
It's like push your knees apart,push your knees to the outside
and then finally, like you werejust said, is like, it's like a
much more visual and tactilefeel of like, press your feet
into the floor and try to rip itin half.
Like pull the, push the floorapart with your feet and that
produces, you know, your kneesto like go outward from there.

(52:11):
Yeah.
Cause you're putting the outwardpressure.

Tali (52:13):
I love figuring out those, what I call sensory specific
cues.
Yeah.
I like to think that that mightbe more universal.
Yes, people are going to hearthings in different ways, but I
try to like put the feeling intowords as much as possible.
And I remember one that I hadalso developed that I was really
excited about for pull-ups totry to bring your hands

(52:37):
together, like trying to bendthe bar.
Mm-hmm.
down, kind of like they do witha PVC pipe on an overhead squat.
Kind of the same concept.
Mm-hmm.
like trying to bring your handstogether and that activates the
lots.
It's just, just does the tricksometimes.
Yeah.
Oh man.
I'm excited about coaching now,but I really think that we
should shout out to a couple ofgreat

Cody (52:56):
coaches.
Okay.
Well, a couple that I met earlyon in a couple of different
certifications that I

Tali (53:01):
went to.
Why don't we do like one in one,like bounce back and forth.
Okay.

Cody (53:05):
Well Todd Whitman, your CrossFit CU crush, he's so

Tali (53:09):
hot.
I wonder what he is up to.

Cody (53:10):
And I I'm gonna say too, even though you said one in one,
because these guys were alwaysworking together, and that's
Adrian Bosman, Adrian Bosman andTodd Whitman were often working
together and they both have areally amazing way for
describing movement in the waythat you were just talking about
as far as what it should feellike when you're doing it.
Right.
And their amu, theircommunication style was not only

(53:34):
just next level, but they bothdid it with a lot of grace and
humility.
Like they didn't make you feellike a dumb ass if you weren't
getting something right.
No,

Tali (53:43):
they were so, they were such sweet men.

Cody (53:45):
Yeah, they were just really kind.
They were generous and they wereempathetic and.
And amazing communicators.
I mean, they could make youunderstand something with the
simple, simple cues and a greateye.
So yeah, lots of admiration forboth of those guys as coaches.

Tali (54:04):
He's so hot.
Still just looking at hisInstagram.
Goodness.
I think I've already given ashout out to Jay Teeter before I
worked with him for a reallyshort time.
Mm-hmm.
But the way he conveyedinformation was very sensory
specific.
There's a cue that he gave methat I just gave to my client

(54:24):
the other day.
And it just really stayed withme because I think it was so, so
well said.
And also, An experience thatevery lifter probably goes
through and needs to overcome.
And so what can happen sometimeswhen a lift is feeling,
especially heavy off the floor,you have a tendency to wanna

(54:45):
rush it.
You don't really realize thatthat's what's happening, but you
kind of try to outpace the liftto, you know, you feel like you
have to do more and more andmore in order to like beat this
heavy weight.
And so what that can do is itcan rush the lift.
And so you don't actually hitall of your positions, therefore
your mechanics are no longerthey're not efficient.

(55:07):
Yeah.
They're not efficient andthey're not being applied
correctly to the, to the bar.
And it's gonna make the bar notmove in the way that you want it
to.
And so he had told me, you know,you have to respect the weight
of the bar.
Like get acquainted with theweight of the bar.
Mm-hmm.
don't, don't try to.

(55:30):
Fake it, I guess.
Like you have to feel the weightof the bar.
Yeah.

Cody (55:35):
Don't wish that it was lighter.
Just like get used to how itfeels being heavy.
Well, it's supposed to be heavy.
It's okay.
It's

Tali (55:40):
supposed to be heavy, and you're supposed to have enough
faith in your technique thateven if it does feel heavy,
things will work out becauseyou're committing to your
technique.
Yeah.
A lot of people, when they feela bar is heavy, there's kind of
a moment of panic where theywill throw all their technique
out the window because they'refucking fighting this thing.
They're battling this bar.
Yeah.
And so that can mistakenlycreate errors in your execution,

(56:07):
you know, resulting in a missedlift.
And so he said, let it feelheavy in your hands.
Yeah, it's okay.
And I was able to repeat thelift that felt so heavy and nail
it.
Nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I worked, like I said, Iworked with him for a very short
time, but he's super brilliant.

Cody (56:22):
Yeah.
I got to work with him as well,but it was for a six week like
weightlifting course that he wascoaching.
Mm-hmm.
And he's the one that taught methe, all those rack supports
that you hate so bad.
But I, I have a lot of myclients do those rack supports,
you know, where you're gettingunder the bar in like an
overhead squat position from thebottom up mm-hmm.

(56:42):
and then pressing it out of therack.
Like he's gross.
He's the one that taught me allthat.
So you can, you can thank himfor that.
But yeah, he's a great coach.
Super knowledgeable.

Tali (56:52):
Yeah.
Another coach that I reallyrespect Zigman, small certs.
He was the weightlifting coachfor USA weightlifting at the
Olympic Training Center.
And I was just saying, I hope itcomes up at some point, but I
was lucky enough to.
Be able to train at the OlympicTraining Center for a couple

(57:13):
weeks at a training camp howevermany years ago, 10 years ago
now.
Oh, gross it's such a long timeago.
Yeah, a good long while now.
But he coached with sounds, he,I believe is of Polish descent.
And so a lot of his queuing weresounds that were supposed to

(57:35):
imitate the pace and power of acertain lift.
And so I would do that with myclients too, cuz it totally
makes sense Sometimes, like, youknow, a lift is slow off the
ground and then there's kind ofa pop, so he.
make noises like, Hmm.

(57:56):
Pop you know, like slow, fast.
Yeah.
Like to get you the idea of whatthe pace of the lift should be
in order to execute it asefficiently as possible or to
create as much power aspossible.
And I just thought that was sucha cool tool.
Like this is a man who is animmigrant to the states,
probably has to fill that gapsomehow.
He was, you know, he spoke GreekEnglish, his accent was crazy

(58:18):
thick.
Mm-hmm.
But he had another tool ofcoaching that I had never seen
or heard before, which I thoughtwas brilliant.
So I've totally used that beforewhen I am noticing that things
like timing or sometimes likepeople don't execute lifts with
like power.
They just kind of like do it andit's kind of slow and soft.

(58:40):
Mm-hmm.
But when I'm really wanting themto like stick the landing, like
you have to make the sounds thatare gonna elicit those
responses.
And I learned that from Ziggy.
Yeah.
That's great.

Cody (58:51):
Yeah.
shall we wrap up?
Sure.
You wanna keep going on

Tali (58:54):
this I, I mean, I can talk about great coaches forever.
But yeah, I think that's an okayplace to stop, but yeah,
teaching as a learning tool issuper cool.
Super cool.

Cody (59:06):
Yep, I agree.
Well I don't think I pulled upanything to tease future
episodes, but you know, they'regonna be cool.
Hope so.
So, yeah.
So join us next.
Sounds good.
Love you.
Love you.

Tali (59:23):
This episode was produced by Tali Zabari and Cody
Limbaugh.
Check out our writing, coachingservices and home studying
adventures at live all yourlife.com.
For show notes, resourcesmentioned, or to submit a
question or contribution, clickon the podcast tab.