035 How To Set Boundaries And Why It's Important: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 25

Episode Transcript
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Cody (00:16):
Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh.
And I'm

Tali (00:18):
Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of
Fitness Podcast on the Live

Cody (00:23):
All Your Life Network.

Tali (00:46):
I have two icebreakers for today.
Two.

Cody (00:49):
Okay, good.
Cuz I don't have very many noteson today's topic, so the
icebreakers will float

Tali (00:54):
us for a bit.
I don't know how helpful youthink these will be.
They're just the first thingsthat came to the top of my head.
We watched James to the GiantPeach today.
Yeah.
Kind of.
It was the first time I had seenit in at least 20 years.
20, yeah.
I'm fucking old now.
I can say shit like that.

Cody (01:13):
I think that movie is about 20 years

Tali (01:14):
old.
I was definitely a kid, like ayoung kid when you saw it.
Yeah.
Last at least I was just

Cody (01:22):
a younger dad so my kids watched it.

Tali (01:25):
Yeah, sure.
And I'm sure if you and I havekids, it'll be that.
Watch it again.
Full thing all over again.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, I wanted to know whichof the characters you identify
with the

Cody (01:34):
most.
Well, I know what you're gonnasay for me, but I'm not
answering

Tali (01:38):
this question for you.
Well,

Cody (01:41):
to be fair, I was plotting plants for probably two thirds
of the movie.
And kind of listening from thekitchen.
So not sure if I got a clearbead on everybody.

Tali (01:54):
Maybe you should just go with what I would choose for you

Cody (01:58):
perhaps you're right.
Either that or I might be likethe magical fellow who gives him
the crocodile tongues.

Tali (02:05):
Interesting.
Why would you say

Cody (02:07):
that?
I don't know.
I'm always trying to like be acatalyst for like, change in
people's lives and they, and hewas the catalyst, he was like
the, the shitster that kind ofmade the, made everything go off
the rails.
He was like the the hero'sjourney person who is like the,
the wise old mentor who kind ofcomes in and like talks the

(02:30):
person into going on a questkind of thing.
Sure.
I'm not saying I'm the wise oldmentor, but I'm, I am always
trying to advocate for people tolike, get out, get out.
See the world do stuff.
I

Tali (02:39):
do hope that the book fills in some gaps.
He seemingly appeared outtanowhere.
Yeah.

Cody (02:44):
But the whole story is that way.

Tali (02:46):
Like, I know I haven't really like suspended reality
enough to enjoy it fully.
Like he has

Cody (02:51):
this fun family and then all of a sudden a giant rhino
OSCEs comes out of the sky andeats his parents.
Like, that's random.
But I don't remember that fromthe book.
So I, cuz the book was, I think,read aloud to me when I was
like, in the third grade.
Oh, sweet.
That's how, how long ago thatis.
I can't remember if I actuallyread it myself or if it was just

(03:12):
like story time kind of thing.

Tali (03:13):
Cute.
Yeah.
I think my answer to thisquestion would be surprising to
you.
The spider?
Yes.
Ok, baby.
It's not surprising.
Yes.
I identify.
She got, she does have style.
She's shocker shit.
Yeah.
And like very moody and like,has these tall black heels and a
beret.
Yeah.
I love Meia Beret andIntelligent and yeah, she's,
she, thanks.

(03:33):
Yeah.
And Susan Sarandon.
Yes.

Cody (03:36):
But I know you would've said the grasshopper for me.
And I think that's kind of mysecond one, because I do like
fancy things and Yes,

Tali (03:44):
he's a classy dresser and

Cody (03:45):
plays the violin.
Yeah.
And he talks about how musicshould come from your soul and
like I like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was pretty

Tali (03:51):
cool.
Okay, so my second icebreaker,icebreaker is where are you sore
from?
Exercise this week.
And you can only pick one.

Cody (04:00):
I, I only have one.
Oh, okay.
I mean, cuz there's other partsthat are just sore, like
terminally.
But I, my scapular region,region, my shoulder blades are
just roasted.
I've been feeling it all like,The last four days I

Tali (04:13):
would trade you cuz I like that soreness up in the upper
back.

Cody (04:16):
Oh man.
Well, two days ago it was givingme headaches, so it's, it's now
just like a sore musclesituation.
But it was pretty bad.
Sorry honey, before, but howabout you?

Tali (04:29):
My lower back?
Yeah.
Which I would gladly trade youfor your upper back soreness.
And I think it's just becauseit's, it doesn't just feel like
muscular soreness.
It feels like kind of thatfragile feeling.
Yeah.
Of like, if I just twist wrong,it's gonna really fuck me up.
I actually do feel much betternow.

(04:52):
This morning I feel like I couldspeak to it a lot more, but low
like that, I feel like I've beenwell and I also feel like I
don't get sore very much thesedays.
You don't?
And I'm pushing myself a lot soit's been a little bit
mysterious.
It's all that protein.
I think it has a lot to do withthe food that I'm eating for
sure.
And Yeah, I'm here for it.
Yeah.
Low

Cody (05:11):
back's like that though, cuz it, it's kind of like your
base of support.
So if it's off, you feel likeyou're fragile.

Tali (05:17):
Yeah.
I just remember waking up thismorning and being, and like
turning around to see you andjust it taking much longer and
actually being like conscious ofit rather than just going for
it.
So yeah, that's me.

Cody (05:30):
Well the ice is broken I think.
So you want to introduce ourtopic for today?

Tali (05:34):
Sure.
I think today's topic mightactually stem from real world
ideas and we're taking it backto the gym as opposed to the
other
way

Cody (05:42):
around.
I would agree with that.
Yeah.
Cause I was kind of wonderingwhere this came from.
I'm not sure how it made it toour list.
Well,

Tali (05:48):
so we wanna talk about setting boundaries and I think
this comes up for me because Ithink that that's been a theme
in my experience as aweightlifter or lack thereof.
Mm-hmm.
and.
Something that I'm alwayswrestling with, not just in my

(06:09):
athletic life, but just as aperson setting boundaries.
It's not intrinsic to know howto do it.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's something I wishmy younger self might have had,
and I wanted to explore it.

Cody (06:22):
Yeah.
Well, the, you kind of have togive yourself some slack for
that because we're raised in aculture where kids are not
allowed to create their ownboundaries, you know?
Mm-hmm.
We are in a culture for the mostpart, where parents don't allow
a lot of privacy for their kids,or a lot of autonomy or decision

(06:43):
making.
You know, I've seen kids orparent child relationships to
where, for instance, the.
child will feel like they own atoy, for instance, but then the
parent will use that as apunishment method of like taking
this toy away as a punishment.
And that what that does is itjust, it destroys the illusion

(07:05):
of ownership.
That kid doesn't own it.
Mm-hmm.
shit that the parents owneverything.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
and there's no clear boundariesset or like rules in place or
agreements between people.
It's just this top-down parentaldictatorship, so to so to speak.
And so then we're kind of thrustout in the world and at the age
of 20, or in my case like 15 orwhatever, but you go out on the

(07:30):
world on your own and it's likeyou're being, you're used to
other people encroaching on yourboundaries as just a way of
life.
Like that's who part of who youare is.
So it's a skill then you have tofind for yourself of being able
to say, no, this is my life andI have the autonomy to create.

(07:51):
rules, if you will, in my lifeof the way I want to be treated.
The way I choose to navigate inthe world as far as it's, you
know, as long as, as long as I'mnot encroaching on somebody
else, I expect these things fromother people as well.
Mm-hmm.
and I don't have to toleratewhen those agreements are
broken.
And it takes a long time.
Some people never figure thatout, but,

Tali (08:11):
well, I had a note here that says that it's possible to
not even know that you needboundaries.
Mm-hmm.
that was an area that I feltlike I had found myself probably
around the time that you and Imet about five years ago,
realizing that I wantedboundaries but didn't know.

(08:31):
How to put them into place.
And I also, even before that,didn't really realize that I
needed boundaries.
You had pointed out a lot ofthings to me that I had just
thought were normal.
Mm-hmm.
especially in my training lifein terms of how, not how much it
was taking over my life, but hownon-negotiable so much of it

(08:52):
felt.
And it took me a while for it tosink in.
Like, I have choices that I canmake here.
Mm-hmm.
And I think as a young personthat's super normal to learn and
maybe learn the hard way.
And I think sometimes I lean toofar in the other direction now

(09:14):
as a result.
So I'm hoping that we canexplore like where that sweet
spot is and how we as coaches.
Create that environment for ourclients.
Mm-hmm.
to set those boundaries.

Cody (09:29):
Yeah.
I, it's funny you just touchedon my first note.
You had talked about finding thesweet spot, and I put on here
that it's a tough balance whenyou're paying an expert like a
coach.
You're, you're paying a coachbecause they, you are assuming
that they know better than youand you're paying them for their

(09:50):
expertise in part and to a pointto a point.
And that's, that's what I'mtrying to get at, is that you
have to be discerning though,you know, because I

Tali (10:00):
love that word so

Cody (10:01):
much because you, you know, I've seen situations
hopefully I'm not guilty of thismyself.
I'm sure I've made mistakes.
I'm not a perfect human.
But as a coach clientrelationship, I do try to give
my clients a, a lot of outs.
It's like, let me know how thisfeels.
let's try this.
But I've seen other coachesbeing like, here's your exercise

(10:21):
program.
And when the client might pushback a little or complain,
they're just like, well, this iswhat it takes, you know, and
we're going for it.
And so they take legitimatefeedback as criticism of their
coaching or.
Or a cop out that the, that theyneed to push through as a good
coach.
You know, they're gonna maketheir coach, their student, like

(10:43):
push through.
And I've seen that kind of fallapart.
I've seen people get injured andthen it's like, well, my coach
made me do this.
And it's like, well, your coachcan't make you do shit.
You chose to do it.
But I can understand also howyou were feeling pressured
having paid this person fortheir expertise, and then you
felt like you were obligated tofollow through.

(11:04):
It's a strange dynamic and itdefinitely takes discernment.
And I put on here, it's a toughbalance.
It's a, it's a, it's a toughsweet spot to figure out.

Tali (11:12):
Well, and you can also add in that layer of, we talked
about this in the mentorshipepisode.
You know, not all coaches arecreated equal.
Mm-hmm.
you know, we've had friends whohave gone to gyms and signed up
to work with a coach who like,just started out Yeah.
And they were injured veryquickly.

(11:33):
Yeah.
And so I can understand likemaybe fully surrendering to an
experience, but I think you alsohave to assess like if you're in
good hands or not.
Mm-hmm.
or establish trust first orsomething before you, like hand
over all your money or do littlewhatever.
It's, yeah.

Cody (11:52):
It's tough though because you're, you're hiring them
because you don't know.
That's the whole point is you'rehiring somebody cuz you don't
know.
So it's like, how do you, how doyou assess a good coach for you?
Like a, it's a tough, it's atough thing.

Tali (12:04):
It is.
I mean, personal recommendationsgo a really long way.
That's true with me.

Cody (12:09):
Yeah.
And you know, we're taking thisback to the fitness analogy, but
I think this really holds truein so many arenas, whether it's
business, finance religion,hello.
You know, like being discerningof the people you follow and the
reasons you're following themtakes diligence.
And I think that having.
Pre-established boundaries thatyou set for yourself can go a

(12:32):
long way to helping thatdecision.
In the heat of the moment, likeif you decide going into a
relationship that I'm not gonnado X, Y, Z, then when.
you are in the like, peerpressure part of it.
When, when your mentor is likeface to face with you and asking

(12:54):
you to do X and you said aheadof time you wouldn't, it's a
little easier to say, well,that's not a place I'm gonna go
to, instead of having to makethat decision in the moment with
the pressure and Right.
And or just being caught offguard by,

Tali (13:08):
do you know what keeps coming to mind?
Jim Jones?
I don't know why I mean, I doknow why, but I just, I feel
like that's a really extremeexample Yeah.
Of perhaps boundaries gone wrongor boundaries non existing.

Cody (13:20):
Yeah.
Well, and if you look at likewild, wild country or whatever,
that wild country or whateverthat documentary was about the
rajni conduct here in Oregon.
Yeah.
And I, you know, I have reallymixed feelings about the whole
situation.
When I read and listen to osha,I think the guy had a lot of
great things to say.
And it was his sidekick, Iforget her name now, but it, she

(13:44):
seemed to kind of go off thedeep end.
Like she, I mean, my conspiracytheory is that she killed him.
I think that, I think that she,when he was like taking that vow
of silence for a year and thenhe got sick and all like, Nobody
saw him and he was kind ofhidden.
I think she took over.
But anyway, side tangent.
I'll link to that in the shownotes.

(14:06):
It's

Tali (14:06):
crazy.
It's a really fun watch.
Yeah.

Cody (14:08):
If you guys haven't seen that documentary, it's
fascinating.
But that's kind of, thatslippery slope thing was
interesting for people whodidn't have preconceived ideas
of what their own boundariesshould be.
Because it started out as thisloving eastern philosophy hippie
compound with everybody likegardening and having sex and

(14:31):
being fed and taking good careof each other.
And it was just this wonderfulthing.
And then it went to buying landso that they didn't get ousted
through votes of the local town.
And then it went to like, it, itgot to the point where they were
like, poisoning water supplies.
It's like, wait, wait, where?
What It's like, where did thatwork too far?
Yeah.
So kind of a extreme example,but I just wanted to.

(14:55):
take it out of fitness for aminute because I think that
establishing your own boundariesthrough your own moral code,
first of all, well, it

Tali (15:04):
takes having one first, doesn't it?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
It's like young, you have tothink, young people figure that
shit out.
I think when you're a youngperson, there is gonna be a
transition and when there, it'sin your twenties or maybe even
in your thirties where you are,you know, throwing away all of
the things that you have beenraised to believe and kind of
keeping what you wanna takeforward in your life.

(15:24):
I think if you live an examinedlife, there's a phase like that
where you get to make thosechoices and,

Cody (15:32):
and not just ethically, but just in the life you want to
have as well.
Mm-hmm.
you and I, I think that's onething that we've been really,
has been good for each other inour relationship is that you and
I have a type of life we wannalive.
And sometimes outside forceswant to sort of push back
against that.
And can you give an example?

(15:53):
And you and I are like, no,we're, that's not the life we're
going for.
Well, a good example might belike my job that I had.
Yeah.
So for exactly one year, it'skind of, I didn't mean to, for
it to be exact, but I literally

Tali (16:05):
could.
I probably did because I havealways told you like, it you can
really only put something onyour resume if it's been a year.
Yeah.

Cody (16:12):
But I, you know, that job created a lot of imbalance for
us.
sucked.
It was basically 4 10, 4 tens,10 hour days super early.
And so not only was it a longday, but it was offset to yours.
Right.
And so I would leave, you know,I would get up at four 30 in the
morning in order to try to get alittle workout in and go to
work.

Tali (16:32):
And it was so hard.
I feel like we only got the hangof that towards the end.
Yeah.
And then

Cody (16:37):
you got home from your work at 6:30 PM mm-hmm.
So that's just, that's a longass day to not be together.
to not work on things together.
And that goes against the lifethat we want to Yeah.
Be partners in so many things.
And I think that's a goodexample because we set a
boundary of like, that's not thelife we want.

(16:57):
So as soon, like we're, we'renot gonna go beyond this point.
And at the one year mark, Iquit.
Even though, if you rememberlike the week that I quit, we
did not have our business mentorthat we were gonna hire.
At the time, our marketingmentor backed out of the deal.
Right.
And we were like, well, fuck it,we're gonna do this anyway.

(17:18):
Yes.
And

Tali (17:19):
so, because that outweighed Yeah.
The cushiness.
But

Cody (17:24):
if you about it, like we didn't have much of a plan.
We didn't have, no, we

Tali (17:27):
didn't.
But you and I also have a lot offaith that we're gonna land on
our feet and that Mm.
If we prioritize the rightthings, which being together,
being able to work togethertrying to support each other in
not feeling like our, our livesare boring and meaningless.
I sincerely believe that leadingwith that, things will work out.

(17:48):
Yeah.
And here we are three monthslater.
Three months later.
November, no.
October.
No, I worked through October.
Okay.
November, December, January.
Yes.
So

Cody (17:59):
we're almost three months out.
Gosh, it feels longer.
Yeah.
Well we've been doing a lot.
Yeah, we have, but we're almostthree months out and we are
literally a week or two out fromlaunching our marketing and
finally like launching thebusiness officially.
So yeah, it was a greatdecision, but I think it was
stemmed from our boundaries andit wasn't necessarily what I

(18:20):
might call like an ethical call,but it was like, this is what we
want for our life and we're notgonna.
compromise on living the life wewant.

Tali (18:30):
Well, I think a better example of having set boundaries
and advocating for them in thatparticular scenario is when they
had asked you to come back.
Yeah.
Just to help out for a littlewhile mm-hmm.
And remind me how that ended upgoing.
Cause I was supportive eitherway.
You, I've been in that positionbefore and usually given

Cody (18:49):
Well our business right now, we don't have a lot of
deadlines.
I kind of love the way we'reworking because I am not an
advocate for setting time boundgoals.
I think time bound goals arefraught with all kinds of issues
fraught.
But we're just basically at thispoint working as fast as we can.
Like let's get as much work doneas fast as we can so that we can

(19:11):
move to the next phase of thebusiness.
Mm-hmm.
And when you have that kind ofmindset in Intact, it's like
there's a laser focus.
For getting that done.
So when my previous employercalled and said, you know, Hey,
can you come in for like two orthree days and just mentor your
replacement a little bit becausewe're seeing some issues in the
production and, and I felt like,like I actually wanted to, cuz I

(19:36):
wouldn't mind, you know, a dayor two that, well the money
would've been nice too.
Yeah.
It would've been a nice littlebump for us.
But I'm, I was just thinkinglike, okay, I have, I basically
am working six days a week onour business and if I spend two
or three days there, that's ahalf a week that's going to,

(19:57):
I'm, I'm looking at big picture.
Like I know that we are going tobe making more money than we've
probably ever made in our livesdoing meaningful work that I am
more excited about than any workI've done, I think ever.
Like as far as what, as far asthe actual day-to-day work of it
It's so meaningful to me and sofun, and I'm so excited about

(20:18):
our future for it.
That that

Tali (20:19):
Well, there's so much novelty to it.
Yeah.
Also, right.
But

Cody (20:22):
to, to put that aside, to go make a paycheck for three
days was like, no, I'm, I quitfor a reason.
I quit because it's something Ivalue is to lead the life we
want.
And going back even for two orthree days is like telling my
brain that it's not thatimportant, but it is that
important.

(20:42):
It's so important to me.
I don't wanna waste

Tali (20:44):
three days.
Well, it's kind of like bettingon yourself too.
Yeah.
You had to just, we had to keepreminding ourselves like why we
were doing this.
Mm-hmm.
it wasn't it.
Yes.
The money is a big part of it,but we also wanna have freedom
in our lives.
We also wanna spend more timetogether.
And being at two separate jobswas not affording that at all.

(21:06):
All of our time was spoken for.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
I think that when they asked youback, that was a good depiction
of when you had to, to advocatefor those boundaries or maybe
like remind yourself what theyeven were.
You know, boundaries can changethroughout our lives, depending
on the demands or thecircumstances or how we've

(21:26):
changed as people.
Mm-hmm.
you know, hoping that we're notstatic and it's been really a
nice practice, like assertingthose boundaries.
I always, I don't know if it'sjust like a lady thing, but I've
always had a lot of challengesaround a, knowing I needed
boundaries.
B, advocating for thoseboundaries and asserting them

(21:49):
because I'm afraid to pisspeople off.
I'm afraid to not be helpful toother people.
Like if my previous employerwould've asked me the same
thing, you bet your ass, Iwould've done it.
Mm-hmm.
I often feel, not pressure, butlike a deep desire to, you know,
if they were to think about me,like, oh, Tali, she always helps
when we need her.
Mm-hmm.

(22:09):
love her.
Even though in the Essentialismbook that we're reading, it
definitely, I think stung atfirst when he was turning down
jobs or projects or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
and then I don't remember whatrealm it was, like what the
industry was.
Do you remember?

Cody (22:26):
I think it was in some sort of finance industry.
I can't remember

Tali (22:30):
for sure.
Or was it a case study?
It wasn't the author, it was acase study, right?
No.
Yeah, I don't remember him.
Anyway, it took a little bit ofadjustment for everybody, but
then, oh yeah, it was a casestudy.
The level of respect that peoplehad for this particular person
saying no because they reallywanted to focus their efforts on
things that they wanted to do orlike to do, or the only he could

(22:51):
do.
Right.
Yeah.
People really came to respecthim and I think that that's
makes a lot of sense.
It's tricky though because Ithink about people who like say
no all the time.
For, I feel like mostly it'slike for social stuff.
Mm-hmm.
or they just don't like puttingin the effort or they just wanna
like, fill their cup on theirown.

(23:12):
I'm probably one of those peoplewho would like lean towards
like, well I probably justshouldn't ask them anymore.
Like, that's not really likeworth investing in anymore.
And I feel like that haspotential to like fracture the
relationship.
Oh, for sure.
I might be projecting that onmyself when faced with those
decisions, like not wanting tobe disliked, which I really

(23:32):
wanna read that book.

Cody (23:34):
the courage to be disliked.

Tali (23:35):
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
I feel like I, I can, I can dothat to a degree when it comes
to like being the black sheep ofmy family or my friends or
whatever.
But situations like that, thoseare harder for me.

Cody (23:49):
Yeah.
Well your family loves you.
Like you might be the blacksheep, but they all love you I

Tali (23:55):
see.
You know.
Whereas I think it's importantthough, if you are gonna assert
your boundaries, you have to behonest about why.
Cuz I feel like just a, a flatno is easy for people to make up
those assumptions.
Right?
Like, our brains wanna put astory behind everything or give
reasoning to everything.

Cody (24:13):
That depends on what the relationship is.
You know?
I don't think you owe mostpeople your story.
Like most people don't, youdon't owe them shit.
Honestly.
I like whether even an employer,like if, if you say I need next
Tuesday off, and they say why?
And you say personal reasons andthey say why?
It's like, I fucking said I needit.
You know, like you don't need tosay it like that, but I'm just

(24:34):
saying like, people don't, youdon't need, I think people get
them this idea that an excuse isa good thing and or

Tali (24:41):
I didn't say an excuse.

Cody (24:43):
I know I said reasoning.
I know, but a lot of peopleconflate the two.
Yes.
They either don't want to behonest about it or they.
But they still feel obligated tosay some reasoning.
And it's created a culture wherelike everyone needs a reason for
why you might say no tosomething that no isn't good
enough.
Yeah.
And I don't think that's real.

(25:04):
I think you can just be like, nothanks, or, you know, I can't
come in Thursday.
I have other priorities.
Like that's what, that's thetruth.
And you don't need to explainyourself unless you have the
only time.
And I said it depends on therelationship.
You know, if you have agreementslike standing agreements of your

(25:25):
availability with your employeror maybe a routine with your
spouse or something like, thenit seems obvious to me that some
reasoning would be.
At, at least kind if not owed tothat person because you have an
agreement.
But when people out of the bluecall you and say, Hey, can you

(25:46):
work next Saturday?
And wait, you're not, youweren't already agreeing to do
that.
You don't owe an explanation asto why you can say no.
You can just say, no thanks,

Tali (25:57):
I suppose it's very rare that I have a strictly
professional relationship withanyone.
Those lines are always blurredin my life.
And a lot of it has to do with,aside from Nike, I've only
worked for small businesses.
Yeah.
And it's really easy for thereto be like that sense of
community or family or support.

(26:19):
But that's different than anagreement too.
It's true.
But I think that that's alsojust like a downfall of mine and
why boundaries have been so hardis because I do blur those
lines.
I feel like a lot of you know,professional.
I have a lot of people in mylife who are very close to me
now, but had been introduced tome in a professional setting.

(26:40):
And I feel like that takes me toanother point where, you know, I
have had situations where I hadblurred those lines with
coaches, like romantically,whether it was returned or not.
There was a coach that Iactually dated.
Kind of, kind of a shit showbecause it was like all very

(27:00):
secretive.
And I've also been in love witha coach of mine who did not
reciprocate those feelings.
And so in both of them, it, itchanges the negotiation.
Yes, money was being exchangedbecause I was a client and they
were a coach, and so that.

(27:21):
kind of added to difficulties,drawing boundaries or I guess
there just were none at thatpoint.
I was pretty young when that wasgoing down, but mm-hmm.
and everything was likeconsensual and whatever.
I don't wanna make it sound likeanyone's like preying on me, but
at the same time I look back onthat experience and like, hmm,
that probably wasn't like agreat situation to be in.

(27:44):
Like just being like a youngimpressionable lifter being
like, this is how theweightlifting world is It
certainly does not have to be,but it's made relationships with
coaches even beyond those.
Really challenging for me tonavigate.
And I don't have a coach nowbecause I still don't really
know how to navigate that.

(28:05):
Yeah.
And not that I'm like gonna fallin love with every coach that I
had.
The issue was, is because ofthat feeling that I had for them
and allowed myself to express itfully.
Cuz I will, you know, I ended upwith my boss like you are an
excellent example of how I don'treally respect those boundaries.

(28:27):
And because you're anotherperson.
Mm-hmm.
like so what if you're my boss?
Like, I love you too.
And here we are five yearslater.
Yep.
To the month even, which isreally cool, But the issue that
I would create is that whenthere were situations where like
maybe I would've said no orwould've felt compromised or
overextended or whatever, Iwould just give in cuz I wanted

(28:54):
my coach to think I was thebest.
I wanted them to like me.
I wanted I wanted to be likemodel student.
You know, I was not a greatstudent growing up, but this was
an area that I was excelling inand was like, I wanna milk it
for all it's worth.
So I'm gonna be like the best ofthe best of the best.

Cody (29:10):
And, yeah.
Well it was an area that youchose, I mean, you went in Yes.
Consensually to something thatyou, you initiated

Tali (29:16):
yourself For sure.
And I know I've brought this upbefore, but when you and I moved
out here, we had met up with acouple of weightlifting coaches
and were training with them fora short period of time.
But as soon as I, I could feelmyself like rising to that
occasion, I was asking themabout like nationals coming up,
like, how can I qualify forthat, blah, blah, blah.

(29:38):
And like, let's train for that.

Cody (29:39):
And, and it was them, they brought up the competitions,
like the first, do you think?
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
For the first few sessions theykept bringing up competitions
cuz they were like, so.
Hungry to have you in their gymbecause of what you had
accomplished come previously.
Well, and

Tali (29:55):
that's not something you come by so excited easily in our
neck of the woods.
Yeah.
So

Cody (29:59):
they were really excited and then you were like, oh, well
if they're gonna coach me andthey're so excited about me
competing, maybe I'll compete.
You know, like that wasn't aconscious thing, but I just saw
it happen.
I saw it.
Yeah.
It happen in real time.
It was like you were notthinking of competing at all and
then all of a sudden they keptbringing it up every session.
And by like the fifth or sixthsession you were, you then you

(30:19):
were like, well, maybe, youknow, like Right.
And

Tali (30:22):
at this point I had kind of like sworn off U s a
weightlifting, like there weresome shady things going on in
their camp that I just likethings, yeah.
I just don't really like, feelcomfortable with or just like
condone some of their practiceswhen it comes to supporting
their athletes.
Unfortunately there aren't anyother federations.
Maybe there will be one day, butit's kind of wild how I had.

(30:46):
Kind of made up my mind aboutcompeting and then like you
said, I was just like easilyswayed and interested because
Yeah.
When they're giving you thatkind of attention and they've
got stars in their eyes, likeand see potential in you, like,
fuck yeah, I wanna live up tothat.
Like, it make, it's, it's kindof a sick form of people
pleasing cuz it's a shit ton ofwork that I have to do mm-hmm.

(31:07):
to get there.
But I'm happy to say that sincethen I have not competed still.
I feel like I'm still not reallyready or interested.
And I, I'm really excited to saythat, you know, you and I are
interested in or pursuingcompeting in our first power
lifting meet, but we're, it'sall self-led.

(31:29):
It was all us.
Mm-hmm.
like somebody did tip me offthat that was something that was
taking place and it soundedreally fun and interesting and
at least with power lifting,like, I don't know anything
about that world, so I don'thave any.
Biases towards it, in terms ofwe're going, how I feel about
it?
Yeah.

(31:49):
We're going in pretty casual onthat.
Yeah.
But I feel like settingboundaries with coaches, like
that's hard to do.
I mean, there was that wholedocumentary that came out like
two or three years ago now aboutall of the sexual abuse that
takes place in gymnastics.
And I'm fairly certain that thathappens on all kinds of sports.
Mm-hmm.
but it was like, especiallyrampant and exposed like, and I

(32:11):
think targeting like oneoffender in particular.
But I mean that's, that's the,that's the issue and the risk
you run when you are kind ofgiving up full control.
Mm-hmm.
And there's something weird kindof like with the prison
experiment where there'ssomething about that environment
when you're entering in thosekinds of transactional

(32:33):
relationships where.
We kind of forget, like I'mstill me, I still have all of
the agency autonomy, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
But the problem with sports isthat sometimes you're dealing
with kids, you know, and thatisn't something that's really
encouraged or talked about ortaught, you know, these are just
like, it's just the way sportsare.

(32:55):
Yeah.
And well, like I said, it's nodifferent as adults.
You know, maybe it pronouncesitself in different ways, but
it's just as challenging, Ithink.
Yeah.
Like psychologically it was veryhard for me.
After I wasn't being coachedanymore.
It was like, cool.
What else is going on in mylife?
I don't know.

Cody (33:15):
Yeah.
Well, like I said, it's, as kidsin our culture we are not given
a lot of opportunity to set ourown boundaries of any kind.
And without flexing that muscleor learning how to utilize that.
Sense of autonomy.
It's tough to go out in the realworld as a young adult and start
asserting yourself all of asudden, you know?

(33:36):
Yeah, that's tough.
I did have a note here for theidea of setting boundaries for
yourself, though in a differentway.
Not boundaries that you expressto other people, but boundaries
that you impose on yourself.
Like what?
Well for instance, you and Ihave made a priority of doing

(34:01):
certain things, like going tobed at a certain time or only
like, well, like if we only ifwe watch tv, we cut ourselves
off at one show.
Like one episode.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We don't binge anymore cuz wedid for a while there and then
we're like, nah, we'd stay upfor so long.
And then it's like, man, this isfucking with us really bad.
Mm-hmm.
and so, Some people, you know,talk about self-discipline or

(34:25):
whatever, but I like the idea ofjust, well, this is a boundary
I'm not gonna cross.
I've decided that for myself.
And so it gives you someguardrails, something to to know
in advance.
It's like making that decisionin advance, just like I was
talking about.
When you're faced with thatleader or mentor or whatever,
and you're in the heat of themoment, it's good to make these

(34:46):
kind of things in advancebecause there's many times where
it's like, oh, it's acliffhanger.
Oh, I wanna see what's on.
You know, it's like, but we'vealready made the decision that
we're gonna watch one and go tobed.
So it's a really sort of stupidsimple example.
But I see that playing out inmany areas of our lives.
I think this weekend was a greatexample.
We, oh yeah, we worked our assesoff Friday and Saturday on.

(35:09):
Cleaning up a bunch of stuff inour business, cleaning up our
house, but consolidating thingsin our business to, to
streamline, purchased a newdesk, like all kinds of stuff.

Tali (35:19):
Just to make work easier, smoother, moving forward.
Yeah.

Cody (35:22):
And we we, we touched a lot of different work things
because we had already decidedthat we were gonna set a
boundary for Sunday.
That Sunday we weren't gonnaforce any productivity out of
ourselves, that we were justgonna enjoy some downtime, spend
the whole day together.
I didn't lift a damn fingertoday.
Yeah, we didn't do much product.
I mean, I did some planting,which has been on my to-do list

(35:43):
for months, but I was relaxing,you know, like putting my hands
in the dirt.
That's, oh yeah.
That's

Tali (35:48):
so nice.
It's therapeutic sometimes.

Cody (35:50):
So these kind of boundaries that we decide ahead
of time really takes thedecision anxiety out of trying
to live up to your best self inthe moment because, Back when
you were feeling rested andstronger or more organized
earlier in the week, you alreadymade the decision.
And so when you're tired and youwanna sleep in on Friday, and

(36:12):
it's like, well, I don't have toget up because it's, I don't
have to work today.
I don't have a boss waiting forme.
We don't have any appointments.
Well, we did, but it was later.
We could have slept in.
But we had made the decision.
Are you talking about today?
Friday.
Oh, Friday.
Friday.
We got ourselves outta bed earlyso that we could work out before
our first coaching session withour clients.
Yes.
We didn't have to do that.
We could have slept till nineand then well, no,

Tali (36:34):
our appointment was at eight 30.

Cody (36:36):
You get my point.
Yeah.
We got ourselves up like two anda half hours before so that we
could go downstairs and workout.
Yeah.
But we didn't make that decisionthat fucking morning.
We made it like four days, likeall

Tali (36:45):
week long.
Yeah.
We were like reminding eachother of it.
Yeah.

Cody (36:49):
So ma deciding these kind of boundaries for yourself ahead
of time I think takes a lot ofthat willpower that's needed.
Is that

Tali (36:55):
really a boundary though?
Or is that just Sunday settingintentions?
Well,

Cody (37:01):
I think they're very similar because it's like a
boundary for you.
Say it for yourself, like, we'renot gonna sleep past this time.
We're not gonna watch more thanthis amount of tv.
These are boundaries.
Like I, we don't want to crossthese boundaries.
And yeah, we're not perfect.
Of course, we of course we crossthose boundaries sometimes, but
we've made the decision ahead oftime of what that's gonna look
like.

Tali (37:21):
Yeah, I know one for me, that's very helpful, especially
on the weekends.
I, when I first met you,sweetie, I was a yes person and
said yes to every opportunitythat came my, my way.
A lot of those being like socialengagements.
And it is nice sometimes to setthose boundaries of like, okay,
hey, Sunday's just gonna be setaside for us, or Friday's just

(37:44):
gonna be a workday.
It makes it really easy for mewhen like I'm asked to do things
and.
You know, I get, I've been inthe situation many times where I
will prioritize all those socialthings and then at the end of
the weekend just feel like, ohfuck, I didn't do anything.
Mm-hmm.
And that would be fine if myweekends were just normal

(38:04):
weekends.
But it's the only time that youand I get to work on our
business, which is so importantto us right now.
So I'm okay with making thatquote unquote sacrifice.
I love to do social things.
This is, it's hard for me to sayno to them, but I do have to put
those boundaries up first, Ithink.
And I make it known.

(38:25):
I let people know that like,Hey, we're recording today.
Or like, I can't because I haveto do X, Y, and Z for the
business.
Mm-hmm.
I think for me personally, it'sa good muscle to exercise
because I used to.
Really super social, which wasgreat, but I was also super
disorganized and would likealways be running late to things
or always be having to cancel onpeople in the last moment.

(38:47):
And it just was like fuckingsloppy.
Yeah.
And I just feel like the qualityof time with them might not have
been great because I tried tosqueeze in so much.
Well,

Cody (38:56):
I remember a couple of your friends pushing back a
little bit and you guys having alittle bit of fallout from that
too.
I have had that experience.
Yeah.
Overbooking.
And it's like, well we plannedon doing this thing and I
thought you were gonna hang withme this afternoon.
And you're like, but I did.
And they're like, for more than45 minutes Like, cuz you just
like ran out to your nextappointment.

(39:16):
Well, I have a, another way ofthinking of boundaries though is
like, you know, a boundary is atransition from one place to
another.
That's what a boundary is.
You know, it's, it's atransition.
Yeah.
It's a, not a partition, aboundary line between, you know,
the USA and Mexico.
That's a boundary that thegovernments have drawn out that.
is, there's a difference betweenone side and the other.

(39:39):
Right?
Okay.
So if you think about boundariesas what I was talking about
before, where we make decisionsbased on what we want our future
self to adhere to or to staywithin a a certain boundary,
that is actually a source offreedom for an individual.
Because if you're boundless,you're directionless, it kind of

(40:01):
goes back to the essentialismthat you brought up.
Mm-hmm.
before that.
If you're, if you're boundlessand just saying yes to
everything and kind of goingwhere the wind takes you, you
know, then it does not createautonomy for you.
You're giving up your autonomywhen you do that.
Yeah.
Whereas if you set boundariesfor yourself and say, you know,
I'm gonna do X, Y, Z, or I'm notgonna do a b.

(40:24):
this particular time orwhatever, those boundaries are
actually creating freedom foryou because you're asserting
your autonomy.
Yeah.
It's

Tali (40:31):
interesting that your analogy of being boundless and
those, the, that border betweenthe two countries reminded me
of, you know, I was a CrossFitcoach for many years, but I was
a competitive weightlifter and Iwould have clients all the time,
or coworkers and bosses all thetime asking me like, do you

(40:53):
wanna do this CrossFitcompetition?
Or like, do you wanna, why don'tyou ever like, come to CrossFit
class?
And I had to just be like, Hey,I'm a competitive weightlifter.
That's where all my, that's thebasket that all my eggs are in
right now.
Mm-hmm.
And I could tell that I was likeletting people down saying that,
but at the same time, I had avery good track record at the

(41:15):
time I was.
doing very well in competition,and I have that to thank for it.
That was actually a boundarythat I had no problem asserting.
Mm-hmm.
And it's kind of like what wewere saying about priorities or
a priority.
Mm-hmm.
the last time that you and Ispoke, I don't know if it was on
this podcast or something else,but there can really only be

(41:36):
one, you know, and that meansyou're turning down something
else.
Yeah.
And at the time I don't thinkpeople necessarily understood
it.
Like why would you be a CrossFitcoach if you don't do CrossFit?
But that was my training.
That was something I love to do.
And I did do CrossFit, like, youknow, every so often.

(41:58):
But there was a point in timewhere it was not of interest of
mine be because I had.
other things that were moreimportant to me, so I had to, to
advocate for it.
Mm-hmm.
So I would say that that wasmaybe an arena that I felt
really okay with doing that.
Yeah.
And that was also kind ofsimilar in my dating life at the
time too, where I, I reallyloved to date and I liked to

(42:19):
think that I had a really likecolorful dating experience as a
single person.
And a lot of the timesweightlifting came in between me
and having a relationship.
And I was, I was still alwaysgonna try it, but I was also
really hardcore about myboundaries of like, eating,
sleeping, those kinds oflogistics, training.

(42:42):
Those were non-negotiable to me.
Mm-hmm.
And I think it's important whenyou are considering your
boundaries with whatever you'repursuing, is like, how casual or
serious is this pursuit?
if the pursuit is really seriousto you, then having boundaries
is very important.

(43:02):
And it's not to say that ifyou're doing something just for
fun or just whatever that, like,you should throw all your
boundaries out the window.
But I had kind of alludedearlier to how I had so many
boundaries up my, around my lifeas a weightlifter that when I
would be injured or stoppedweightlifting or whatever, I
felt like I didn't have muchelse going on for me.

(43:25):
And it was a very scary feelingof groundlessness and not
feeling like I had much sense ofself outside of that arena.
And I blame in a way feelinglike I had to like live up to a
certain lifestyle.
Like there were, it's, it's hardto say because there are plenty
of people who I felt like hadbetter balances of lifestyle and

(43:47):
training.
and I was like obsessive aboutit for a while.
Mm-hmm.
to where I didn't realize thatlike other parts of my life were
faring away.
And at the same time I wouldn'tchange it cuz it was like one of
the greatest experiences of mylife.
I just know now moving forwardthat I want to have boundaries

(44:08):
around that.
I want to be able to say no tothings or, you know, only train
three days a week instead ofsix.
Things like that.
Mm-hmm.
So I think that it is importantto take stock of like what you
are willing to do and like whereyou want to cut other things off
or out.
Because there are gonna beexternal forces, other people

(44:31):
encouraging you to do differentand you absolutely don't have to
live up to anyone else'sexpectations other than your
own.

Cody (44:37):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think part of that, being ableto navigate what boundaries you
want to set and when isself-knowledge.
You knowing yourself.
You have to really know what youwant.
And I think that one way ofcommunicate communicating a

(44:58):
boundary is that you are makingthe implicit explicit.
So break it down, honey.
Yeah.
Well, when you have a feeling oran idea of the way you want to
be in a certain situation orsome line that you don't wanna

(45:21):
cross, but it's not a very welldefined line, I think that you
have to be able to articulatewhat that boundary is.
So setting a boundary kind offorces you to.
or I should say, requires you tohave the self-knowledge to be
able to articulate what thatboundary is.

(45:42):
You know, like in your case ofthe weightlifting, sort of
slippery slope with your coachesas far as you know, their
demands on you.
I'm not talking about like theromantic relationships I'm
talking about.
Okay.
Like, ah, I'm talking about likethe demands on you that were
really coming from you.
Like you sort of like, they sayjump and you say how high, you

(46:02):
know, like there was just, yeah,I could've said no.
You couldn't say no.
And not only could you not sayno, but you like No, I said I
could've.
Oh yeah, you could've said no.
And, and you, it was even morethan that.
Like there, I think you wentbeyond what they even expected
always.
And it was to fucking always, itwas to a point that I think it's
because you were not and youjust kind of summed it up to

(46:25):
yourself, like you felt like yousort of lost a little bit of who
you were or you didn't have muchidentity outside of that arena.
So there may have been a littlebit of lack of self-knowledge.
Oh, for

Tali (46:37):
sure.
I didn't realize I was doing it.
Yeah.
Until af until you were pointingit out to me.
Right.

Cody (46:42):
And so setting a boundary, I guess is my point, is that you
have to take some implicitthing.
Like, I don't want to live alife like this, or I want to be
able to do these other things asan emotional response.
And you have to be able to breakit down and articulate it.
It's like, no, like you justsaid, three days a week is
enough that whatever that getsme, I wanna go as far as I can

(47:02):
with that, but that's myboundary.
And you have to be able toarticulate that, not just, I
wanna do less, I wanna cut back.
I've had clients like that too,like as a coaching thing.
It's like, well, this is toomuch.
And I, I'll try to suggest,well, what, what is available?
Well, I don't know.
It's just, just too much.
You know, like, it's like, well,you need to figure that out.
You need to figure out, yeah.
Explicitly not just implyingthat you want to do.

(47:27):
Something different, but youneed to explicitly communicate
what you want.
And in our case, you and me,were pretty good about coming to
each other if you're not able toarticulate it.
Cuz sometimes it's really hard.
You pat Flynn likes to say it'shard to read the bottle when
you're in it.
You know, like it's hard toread, hard to read the label
when you're inside the bottle, Iguess is what he says.

(47:48):
And so sometimes it's betterwhen you and I come together and
say, look, I want to express, Iwanna make this change, but I'm
not sure what to, how to, how tosay what I'm trying to say.
And you and I come together andwe kind of figure it out
together.
So I think it's fine to make theimplicit explicit by going to

(48:08):
the person that you needboundaries with and talk it out
and try to discover that insteadof just hiding in on your, on
your own too.

Tali (48:17):
Or just like burning the whole thing down.
Like, oh yeah, I think aboutwhen I quit Vulcan.
I think about this a lot.
How, you know, it could haveeasily been a conversation
around, you know, this is whatis making me unhappy.
How can we change it?
I didn't even really give themthat chance.
And I just quit.

(48:37):
Mm-hmm.
I just fucking quit.
And I remember when I, I met upwith my coach to discuss it
further cuz I had kind of likebroken up with them over an
email.
Mm-hmm.
which, gosh, I can't, I hatethat I did that.
It was just so cold, and so outof nowhere I'm sure.
But I remember kind ofbackpedaling at one point

(49:00):
because clearly I didn't reallyknow how to ask for what I
wanted.
And so my response was just towalk away from it mm-hmm.
and to just like, you know, shutthe door, like close it off.
But I kind of didn't, I didn'treally.
Understand like the gravity ofit or what that actually was

(49:22):
gonna mean, or that feeling ofgroundlessness that was gonna
follow.
And so, you know, if I had abetter understanding of what my
needs were at the time, I couldhave asked, I could have at
least like asked and then, youknow, I might have ended up
leaving anyway based on theresponse, but I didn't give them
a chance to respond.

Cody (49:43):
I don't know that I see it that way completely a little bit
in regards to what I was justtalking about, like trying to
articulate explicitly.
Yeah, I, I might agree withthat, but I think there was a
lot of attempt for you to assertyourself in situations.
And that's, I mean, if youremember, that's kind of what a

(50:03):
lot of the real catalyst for youleaving was, is that you were
taking on leadership roles andyou were.
An extremely qualified coach inyour own right, and you would
bring guests to their freeFriday workout or whatever, and
then you were basically told toshut up and go lift in the
corner and not allowed to like,interact with the guests that

(50:24):
you brought even, or you know,or mentor some new person and
like, I don't

Tali (50:31):
know, there was, that stuff pissed me off.
Yeah, for sure.
But it was also brought to myattention that like the manner
in which I was doing it wasthreatening to the coach.
Yeah.
Well that's what I did.
And so there was opportunity forme to change my approach too.
Yeah.
I just didn't give it any roomto breathe and I was just mad
about it and decided to justshut it all down.

(50:53):
But that's the problem with nothaving boundaries.
Like it just came to a boilingpoint where mm-hmm.
I felt like that was my onlyoption was to get out.
And I think having boundaries inplace allows you to.
to continue to move forward andto be able to operate, not
necessarily in a, a manner ofsafety, but like you've agreed

(51:15):
to everything that you're doing.
Mm-hmm.
you know, and if you feel likethere's more being asked of you,
like you can assess whether ornot you wanna do that or if it's
within your boundaries or not.
The thing about saying yes toeverything all the time is, like
you said, like you're boundless.
Like you just realize you'relike out on a fucking cliff by
yourself because you just keptsaying Yes.

(51:36):
Yep.
You know?

Cody (51:38):
Well, yeah.
I think there is some value inalso trying things.
I think we advocate for this alot on this podcast and with
each other and mm-hmm.
to go ahead and try things andthen when you realize.
You've gone too far, that helpsyou identify where that line
should be, like, where thatboundary should be, you and I.
Oh yeah.
You and I are really good atthat.

(51:59):
You and I have experienced thata lot in our relationship and
just like, you know, pushingsome boundaries in some
uncomfortable directions and,and then backing up and saying,
well, you know what, I think forthis to work, I'm gonna need
this to be in place.
This, this thing, this, thistask or this time, or whatever.
And, but that couldn't have beenknown until we tried it to begin

(52:19):
with.
You know, we couldn't, we, youhave to kind of push yourself
outside your comfort zones andthen realize, okay, well here's
a boundary that I need to setbecause I went too far that last
time, or that other person wenttoo far, or whatever it is.
So I think it, it also takessome courage to go ahead and say
yes first, and then realize,well, I can't say yes to that

(52:42):
anymore because that crossed.
My new boundary,

Tali (52:48):
I'm wondering if you've ever done this before.
I, you know, this is, this ideawith coaching and like there
being kind of a tendency to bereally authoritarian and for the
clients that we have to have thepotential to, and I'm not saying
that this is the case.
I'm just saying this is thecase.
This is the potential in anycoaching situation or a
leadership position where, youknow, people feel like they have

(53:12):
to do things or whatever ormaybe are being overextended
somehow.
Have you ever asked for, I mean,I know we just did this recently
with our beta testers, but withother clients of yours, have you
ever asked for feedback?
And if yes, what did that looklike?
Because I think I'd, I'd like totry that.
I've gotten great, you know,testimonials.

(53:32):
They like tell you all the greatthings you did, but like, I
would like constructive feedbacktoo.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (53:40):
I am trying to think back.
That's why I'm pausing.
I'm trying to give it a, somehonest thought.
I think that I've asked forfeedback on what can be
improved, but it's in such ageneral way that I usually don't
get a very good answer either.
It's like, no, your classes aregreat.
And it's like, then why arethree people showing up?
Like, we, my gym's big enoughfor 20, you know, like, yeah.

(54:03):
So that

Tali (54:03):
reminds me, I remember at 5 0 3 we conducted a survey and
like there would always be wedid it like maybe once a year or
something, but there wouldalways be somebody who wrote in
saying that the workouts weren'thard enough.
Exactly.
And like all of us would justlike erupt in laughter, like
Baha ha like, yeah.
Right.
That's so funny.
You're not doing it right.

(54:24):
Yeah.
If it's not hard.
That's, that's funny.
Yeah, it was funny But I thinkthat that's really important.
Like, I want.
clients to feel safe with me.
And I know that like, this mightbe in favor of like blurring
that line again.
Because I have great rapportwith my clients and I really
love them as people.

(54:45):
Like I very like, especially inthe one-on-one training world,
like I won't work with somebodywho I don't feel like we work
together well.
Yeah.
That's just a waste ofeverybody's time.
Sure.
Oh, that actually reminds me ofa note that I wrote here.
Hmm.
I wrote firing clients and whatwe're willing to tolerate.

(55:07):
Mm-hmm.
you've actually fired a client.
Yeah.
And that is for sure setting aboundary.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm wondering if you can.
Explain that.
And I would really like a coupleof details if possible, because
this is always kind of talkedabout in a general sense, but I
wanna know what this client didto piss you off so much.

Cody (55:23):
Well, one reason it's talked about in such a general
sense is that it was a long timeago and it was a client that was
with us for, I wanna say liketwo years.
So it was kind of a gradualsituation.
I don't remember thecircumstances specifically, but

(55:43):
I can give you an idea of whatthe problem was.
The first time I met thisperson, he was a referral from
an existing client, really sweetguy that was going to my gym.
And we were doing these earlymorning classes where no, about
half the time that other, theoriginal guy was like the only
person there.
So it was supposed to be aclass, but it would be a
one-on-one cuz it was like the5:30 AM and it just wasn't

(56:05):
really taken off yet.
And one morning he is waitingoutside the door as I pull up.
And he has brought a friend, orturns out it was just kind of an
acquaintance.
He barely knew him, but I getoutta my car and I walk toward
him, and this is the first thinghe ever said to me before we
ever met.
He's a complete stranger.

(56:26):
And he looks across the parkinglot at five 30 in the morning in
the dark, and he goes, oh, HondaCivic.
Huh?
Real Success Mobile.
Oh,

Tali (56:38):
oh, gosh.
Yeah.
And you, he was a client for twoyears, I can't even believe he
stepped through the door.

Cody (56:46):
And so he was sort of like, I was so caught off guard
by like, aha.
Like he thought he was beingfunny.
And I was like, oh, that's rudeas

Tali (56:53):
fuck.
That would've knocked the, thatlike, just, just knocked the
wind out of me.
Fuck yeah.

Cody (56:57):
And so, I was also desperate for clients.
Sure.
As a new business owner andbeing young and having a family
to feed and

Tali (57:05):
fewer boundaries, and fewer

Cody (57:06):
boundaries.
I, you know, I just like kind ofput up with his rude sense of
humor.
And a lot of people really lovedhim.
It was kinda one of these guyswhere he was like guest on like,
this is, do

Tali (57:16):
you think people really did love him or did they, was he
so off-putting that people likefaked love him to just fucking
live through it?
There was that too.
Okay.
there was all, because I knowpeople like

Cody (57:28):
that too.
there was all of those things.
There was all of those things.
Boy.
And

Tali (57:31):
so those people are terrifying.
They're so

Cody (57:33):
unpredictable.
Yeah.
So his really like rude sense ofhumor is the only way I know how
to describe it.
But then he would do like, itwas like one of these weird
things where he would like goout of his way and do really
kind things.
So he was like a web designer bytrade.
That's what he did for a living.
And he was quite an artist inhis own right.
And he.
Did a whole bunch of work for mywebsite for free, just cuz he,

(57:56):
he was like, I really wanna seeyou succeed.
And he like, I really love thisgym.
And he almost, I really

Tali (58:01):
want you to drive something that's not a Honda.
Yeah.

Cody (58:03):
He, he talked one time about getting my logo tattooed
on him.
What?
Because he loved the gym somuch.
Like, he loved our gym.
Like he loved fucking, lovedbeing there.
He loved, he'd, he'd come toclasses twice in a day
sometimes.
Like, he

Tali (58:19):
fucking loved it.
This is very surprising knowingthat this ends in you asking him
to

Cody (58:24):
leave.
I know.
Well, at, at one point I thinkit caused so much drama that had
to do with my ex-wife and like,I don't, I don't, like I said, I
don't remember the details, butthere was like shit talking
behind our backs kind of drama.
And I was like, you know, thisis a poison

Tali (58:38):
in.
So he was like telling you howmuch he loved the gym and then
behind your.
Be talking shit about you or

Cody (58:44):
me or my ex-wife or somebody.
So it was, it was a situationwhere it was like stirring up
drama in the gym and then clother clients would come to us
and tell us about it.
And I was like, this can't, thisis like a cancer in our
community.
Like I can't, I can, I can betalked rude to, I guess this was
my boundary is like I can, I canaccept being talked rude to

(59:08):
because I'm the business ownerand it all falls on you anyway.
It all falls on me anyway.
But if it's negatively affectingor making other people quit,
then that's a fucking problem.
Other

Tali (59:18):
people were quitting as

Cody (59:19):
a result, I think.
Like I said, the boun, it's,this was like 20 years ago baby.
I hardly remember, but it waslike a situation where it was
like starting to infect thecommunity as a whole.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, well, that's theboundary.
I can't, I have to protect mycommunity.
Like I can take the bullets, butI'm not gonna put my people
under fire.
Mm-hmm.
kind of thing.
So yeah, that's, that was theboundary there.

(59:40):
And then I think after that Iprobably had a lot less
tolerance, but I also, thosekind of people are very rare.
Like they don't come in the doorvery often.
I think every gym has one and Ithink people a lot of times will
weed themselves out.

Tali (59:56):
I can think of at least one and every gym that I've
worked in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Easily.

Cody (01:00:00):
And that last gym that you and I worked in together and we
had some issues with oneparticular client I feel like I
stood up for myself on thatpretty well.
To the client?
To the client and the, theemployer.

Tali (01:00:14):
The employer did not have our back.
No, not at all.
At all.
And multiple coaches hadexpressed challenges.
Like we would have wholemeetings being like, yeah, what
the fuck is going on?
This is not okay.
And, you know, if you are aparticipant in a gym, you have
to realize that.

Cody (01:00:33):
Like in a coaching gym in a, in a gym where you're being
coached

Tali (01:00:38):
in an active class, well, there's a few things.
So yes, one, you're paying forcoaching.
That means coach is leadingclass, not you, two, this is not
a private session.
You have to realize that yourattitude and your actions and
the things that you say arebeing heard and experienced by
everyone else around you.

(01:00:59):
And those people would just makeit so uncomfortable for
everyone.
Like, gosh, like I've just,they're, I've experienced a very
like, if few, like you said, butlike very serious moments of
like disrespect that were like,kind of like that comment that
you said mm-hmm.
that this client of yours hadwasn't even a client yet.
where it would just stu me like,where do you think you are?

(01:01:25):
You know, and I'm not, like, I'mnot, I'm not gonna like revert
to like the models that I'veseen where like you're in
elementary school and like theteacher like picks you up by
your ear and like humiliates youor whatever.
Like it doesn't really fly inthis situation.
And I think that you and I andthe other coaches who had a
problem in this particular gym,you know, we went to our

(01:01:47):
employer who you would thinkwould have your back.
Mm-hmm.
And that was not the case.
And my assumption is that theywere friends, but still like,
unfortunately, there werealready strained relationships
amongst the staff and theemployer.
This did not help.

(01:02:08):
Yeah.
If anything it was like cool.
Every man for themselves, blah.
Yeah.
But can like culture andenvironment, those things are so
important in any business in anycommunity, especially in a,
like, I went, maybe notespecially, but in a gym,
obviously that's the industrythat we're talking about.

(01:02:28):
It's a vulnerable place.
It's where people are trying tobetter themselves.
And so if it's toxic, it justdoesn't fly.
I just think it's, I would, Iwould like to think that it's so
blatently not okay when thatshit goes down, but some people
just let it fly because theyjust don't want.
or need clients, whatever.

Cody (01:02:50):
Yeah.
Well, I, I think that kind ofgoes to a point of like what de
what determines your boundariesor where you're gonna set those
boundaries.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of times it's asubjective value system.
You know, we, we talked about anethical stance.
We talked about us having avision for our lives and, and
setting boundaries around that.

(01:03:10):
But I think there's also asubjective value that we all
have on people, resources, time,whatever.
And in this case, you and I anda lot of the other coaches there
valued our integrity as coaches

Tali (01:03:33):
to, I was already being compromised to not

Cody (01:03:35):
allow.
Certain behavior or movement inthe class, like bad movement.
Like it's, he, he was puttinghimself in danger.
Like I was trying to help him.
Actually, in this case that youand I are talking about

Tali (01:03:46):
It still makes me like nauseated to think about.

Cody (01:03:48):
And the, and then there were values that the coaches
shared in the environment thatwe wanted to see in our class
because, you know, there's 25people in that class and five of
them are probably like reallyinsecure like newbies who were
nervous to be there and evenexercise in front of other

(01:04:08):
people.
Yes.
You know?

Tali (01:04:09):
Yes.
That's a thing.
I forget about that a lot, but Ihave, and then friends and stuff
who say that they don't wannawork out in front of people.
Yeah.
And

Cody (01:04:16):
then here's this person kind of causing drama, which is,
it's not helping the culture.
So we were valuing those thingsand the employer was valuing
that person's membership.
I don't want to lose.
like, this will blow, this willbe bad for our attrition numbers
if this guy quits

Tali (01:04:33):
And you know what, it totally would've been like that
case study in the Essentialismbook, if he had fired this
client.
Mm-hmm.
because the coaches would'vefelt like he has our back.
Yeah.
And then the clients wouldrealize like, that shit don't
fly here.
Like that's protecting them.
Yeah.
I think that was such a wrongcall to make.

(01:04:54):
Yeah, I agree.

Cody (01:04:58):
Yeah.
So different, different,different values, I guess is my
point.
When you're assessingboundaries, whether you're
respecting somebody else'sboundaries or setting some for
yourself, you have to keep inmind this subjective value that
different people have.
And I think, and whether or notthat's something you're willing
to respect or not, or if itinfringes on your values.

(01:05:20):
Yes.

Tali (01:05:20):
And I think it's important to reassess boundaries all the
time.
I.
I am always, always, always soconscious to ask myself, you
know, is this still serving me?
This boundary made sense at onepoint, does it not anymore?
And I think that's just animportant question to ask
yourself because sometimes wemake boundaries out of fear, you

(01:05:42):
know, like very non-negotiable,hard boundaries.
And you know, that's the thing,the thing about boundaries is
they can be as big or small asyou create them.
Mm-hmm.
And so if you, you know, are inthat bottle, like what you were
saying, if your world is sosmall and your boundaries are so
many, are so great that youdon't grow mm-hmm.

(01:06:03):
you're like inhibiting yourability to do anything you know,
that's important to assess aswell.
You know, we talked aboutBoundlessness and I think that's
because.
that's the direction that youand I lean towards.
Mm-hmm.
But I think other temperamentsor other kinds of people might
find themselves on the otherside of the spectrum where there
are too many boundaries and

Cody (01:06:23):
I feel like that's most people in our culture.
You think?
Yeah.
In, in, in unhealthy ways.
I think a lot of people subjectthemselves to boundaries that
are not consensual or are not oftheir own creation.
You know, I just got throughsaying that like, we all have
subjective values.

(01:06:43):
This is like an Austrianeconomics theory, that there's a
subjective theory of value,Uhhuh, in the economy.
Like what are you gonna pay fora car?
You're not gonna pay for a car,what it's worth?
You're gonna pay for a car.
What other people are willing topay for that car?
Mm.
You're not going to get a joband be paid what the job is
worth.

(01:07:03):
You're gonna be paid for whatyou can be replaced for.
If somebody else is willing todo that job for$10 an hour,
that's what the job pays, right?
So, This kind of carries outinto the idea that in, in like
Eastern philosophy, there's nosuch thing as a boundary.
Our boundaries are just asubjective way of looking at the

(01:07:25):
world, but everything is reallyconnected and we create
boundaries based on oursubjective values, Uhhuh, And
so, you know, those can andprobably should as you grow as a
person.
Change.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
So just like the borders I wastalking about between the USA

(01:07:47):
and Mexico, it is just fairydust.
There's, it's not real right?

Tali (01:07:53):
Well, are you making a case for being

Cody (01:07:56):
boundless?
No.
I think that creating your ownvalues is what gives your life
direction and meaning.
Hmm.
Because if you're just gonnaflit It kind of gets back to the
whole autonomy thing.
Like what I was just trying toallude to is that a lot of
people give up their ownpersonal values for a religion

(01:08:19):
or the religion of government orwhatever, you know, this top
down authority.
They give up their autonomy andsay, you set my boundaries for
me.
Right.
I'm just gonna give you that, aauthority to set my boundaries
for me, and that way I don'thave

Tali (01:08:34):
to.
Yeah.
I mean, that's my issue withlabels in general of any kind
too.
Yeah.
Is that it kind of inherentlymeans that you are living within
the boundaries of whatever.
Label demands of you or definesand that never feels right.

Cody (01:08:51):
And that's why I was trying to say that setting
boundaries for yourself is asource of freedom.
Because if you don't, it's just,well, he says the same thing in
the Essentialism book, if youdon't set your James's clear,

Tali (01:09:01):
right?
No, no, no, no.
Greg

Cody (01:09:02):
McEwen, Greg McEwen says, you know, if you don't set your
own boundaries, people will setthem for you.
And so, so that's why I wastrying to allude to the fact
that if you set your ownboundaries, that's a source of
freedom because you're giving,you are asserting your autonomy.

Tali (01:09:19):
Yeah.
So even though it can be kind oflooked at as like a means of
confining yourself.
Mm-hmm.
the fact that you set themyourself is, is the freedom.
That's the, that's the action.

Cody (01:09:28):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And without those, they'll beset for you.
If you, if you just look at theworld as boundless and just sort
of, like I said, like aimlesslydrift from one thing to the
next, you will be told what todo.
Like there are.
Laws of nature that come intoeffect to, to kind of push you
around?
Well, I wonder

Tali (01:09:46):
about language, and I've been thinking a lot about this
with coaching because now we'redoing more online coaching, and
so I'm having to think about mywords more because that's the
only way I'm really interactingwith my clientele is like
through email and stuff likethat.
Mm-hmm.
And so I, I have to practicelanguage that's kind of like

(01:10:06):
inviting them to try things asopposed to like telling them
what to do.
And when it comes to nutrition,like it's a very complex,
potentially sensitive subjectand there's a lot of, you know,
people.
Mostly looking for nutritioncounseling because they're not
happy where they are.
Mm-hmm.
and they want to get somewherewhere they are.

Cody (01:10:28):
I mean, that's why people seek out a coach of any kind.

Tali (01:10:30):
Exactly.
So I feel like I have to bethoughtful about the way that
I'm approaching them in terms oflike inviting them to think
about or to try certain thingsrather than being like, you're
gonna do this.
But it's tricky because I hadalso listened to a podcast about
like having clients that aremaybe more challenging to work
with or like aren't necessarilycompliant and having to also be

(01:10:54):
frank with them at times of whatyour expectations are.
Bare minimum, you know, maybenot dump too much on their
plate, but

Cody (01:11:05):
well I think there are maybe two different,

Tali (01:11:07):
like, I want, I guess what I'm saying is I just wanna like
set people up to be able toassert those boundaries.
Mm-hmm.
or for me to find out what theirboundaries are.
Yeah.
Cause when it's a newrelationship, it's easy to.
you know, you have to kind offeel it out in terms of like
what the relationship canhandle.

Cody (01:11:23):
Yeah.
Well, I kind of almost look atit, if I were gonna draw it out
as like, you've got this greatbig circle that you're willing
to work in as a coach.
Like you have boundaries thatare outside, like people aren't
gonna be rude to you or shittalk, you know, like extreme
things.
But there's like this big circlethat's your boundary as a coach
of who you're gonna be willingto mentor.

(01:11:45):
And some of that might even be ccompliance.
Like if, if they're six monthsnot compliant and bitching to
you about it not working, butthey're not doing what you say,
then it's like, well you mightneed to find a different coach.
You know, like that, that mightbe your boundaries.
But then within that great bigcircle, you can give them the
autonomy of saying, okay, nowyour, your circle is like

(01:12:06):
two-thirds the size of that one.
But you get to be wherever youwant within that circle.
Like you can move yours aroundwithin my boundaries as a coach.
As my student, you can move thataround.
Mm-hmm.
That's, it might be a littleeasier for me to articulate it
in, in training situations.
I have been a CrossFit coach fora total, like grand total of

(01:12:31):
maybe 17 years altogether.
Wow.
I think muzzle honey.
I think that I was in the bodybuilding type of world for like
four years, five years.
And then there was somecrossover there.
I've coached teams.
I've been, I've not been a powerlifting coach, but I worked

(01:12:51):
alongside a power lifting teamin one of the gyms I worked
with, so I was like, kind of gotinto the culture of it a little
bit.
And I ran a lot of weightliftersjust as a sort of crossover with
the CrossFit world, gymnasticsand me, like all this kind of
stuff.
I've taught running clinics andso I have this broad, he does it
all, folks.
I, I don't do it all.
But what I'm saying is like I,this is the circle that I can

(01:13:13):
work in.
Like, I, I can't teach youPilates.
I don't know jack shit aboutPilates.
I know a little bit of what itlooks like, but mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I could not teach Pilates.
So I have this big broad circlethough, that my clients can work
in, but if they wanna do morebody building type of workouts
or more CrossFit, then it'slike, okay, you choose your
circle now within this big realmthat I have.

Tali (01:13:33):
Yes.
Like when we we're, when we talkabout personal training clients
that you and I are acquiring, ifthey are coming back from injury
or something mm-hmm.
you're the man to go to Yeah.
I can help.
Mm-hmm.
but I'm not nearly as practiced.
I see.
You are in that realm.
Like it's really.
Important to assess thoseboundaries, not only in terms of

(01:13:57):
like the external, trying toinfluence the internal, but the
other way around too.
Mm-hmm.
like what you can give outsideof those boundaries too.
Like it goes both ways.
Yeah, yeah.

Cody (01:14:10):
Yeah.
It's funny, interesting thatyou'd bring up the injury thing
too, because when it came toolder populations or injured
people, when I first, when I gotmy first job as a personal
trainer, it's funny cuz it wasat a commercial gym and I was
only 29 mm.
And it's so funny to look backat that and say like, oh, I was
a personal trainer when I was29.

(01:14:31):
Cuz I, I feel like saying that Iwas so young, but at the time I
was the old guy in the gym.
Like the, all the other trainerswere like 21, 18, geez, 20.
My boss was 23, you know, andand that's why.
within, literally, I think I wasonly there three months and I
was given a management positionto head up the personal training

(01:14:52):
department at another facilityfor ballet Total Fitness,
because I don't know the, theattrition rate and the, the
length of career of an actual,of a personal trainer.
The average is like five yearsor something.
Like, people don't do that as acareer.
They don't, I mean, they do now,but back then, almost 20 years
ago, it was sort of like anentry level job to people who

(01:15:15):
might be going to school to be aphysical therapist or ah, or
they might just be, you know,trying it out for a couple
years.
They realize there's a lot ofsales involved and they drop
out, you know, like there's, itwas a high attrition rate and so
Interesting.
The staff of trainers, for themost part, were a bunch of
really young kids, and so I gotgood at training older people

(01:15:36):
and injured people becauseeveryone there was afraid to
touch those clients And I waslike, well, I'll f.
Fucking go get a book, you know,I'll figure this out.
Mm-hmm.
And so I would like, I wouldliterally be online researching
how to, how to train somebodywith Parkinson's disease because
I know that next Tuesday is myfirst session with my new client

(01:15:56):
who has Parkinson's disease, youknow?
And so I just figure it out.
But after 20 years of doing thatnow it's a lot more intuitive.
Yeah.
But I think that has to do witha little bit of what we're
talking about as far as beingwilling to broaden those
boundaries at first.
Yes.

Tali (01:16:11):
Yes.
Cuz boundaries really shouldn'tbe a set and forget it for life.
Exactly.
Because hopefully no one who'slistening is like, aiming for
homeostasis or a static life.
Yeah.

Cody (01:16:23):
Well I brought up subjective values before and
it's like there's, people havedifferent values, but you as an
individual should be, should.
Yeah, should I think to have ameaningful life.
You can be the same river, butyou're not the same water twice.
You know, like the different,the water's moving.

(01:16:43):
And so I feel like in order toreally live life, you should be
reassessing your values andrealizing that those are gonna
change.
Just like they changed from oneperson to another.
They're gonna change foryourself over time.
Yes.
There's certain non-negotiables,like there are certain things
that I've come, took me 37years, I think 37 years or so

(01:17:10):
to, to stumble upon sort of mycurrent philosophical outlook.
As far as the foundation, Idon't see that foundation
changing.
But other than the foundation,there's lots of room for, that's
why it's foundation

Tali (01:17:21):
reassessing needs to build upon.
Yeah.
And there should be somenon-negotiables, especially
around our safety and our bodiesand things like that.

Cody (01:17:30):
Yeah.
I mean, you only get one lifetoo, so.

Tali (01:17:33):
Yes.
Well, and it's interesting thatthat came up because I actually
have a note here about you know,you only have one body, and I
don't mean in terms of likesafety in terms like, I guess I
was thinking more about like youhave, no one else has like a
right to your body, right.
Other than yourself, whetherthat's like a medical thing or a

(01:17:55):
safety thing or a sexual thing

Cody (01:17:58):
or the work that you do with that body.

Tali (01:18:00):
Sure.
And so I had a note here aboutyou only have one body, but that
was in relation to aconversation that I had with a
customer the other day about herkids who are grown now.
But all the men in her familyplayed football and a lot of
them are really destroyed fromit.
But the thing about the cultureof the sport is like you're kind

(01:18:22):
of expendable.
You know, they're gonna justkind of run you ragged and like
if you say have a scholarship toschool, and like that body of
yours gets, you know, hurt to apoint where you can't play, like
there goes your scholarship,like mm-hmm.
it's crazy to think about likethe demands that are being put
on someone, someone who's soyoung, like college kids are

(01:18:44):
young or high school Yeah.
To make decisions about, youknow, I'm gonna put everything I
have into this, even if it's notin my best interest long term.
You know, you get one shot, onelife, one body, and some people
are okay with, you know,exercising that to the fullest.

(01:19:07):
But that comes with great risk.
And that I would say is maybesomeone who's leaning more into
boundlessness because, you know,they're willing to compromise
whatever to.
to potentially make the most outof that opportunity.
Mm-hmm.
And that's not just fortraining, but that's also like

(01:19:27):
for drug use when it comes tosports.
Like, it, it's crazy to thinkabout not having any kind of
like long term foresight aboutlike what that's gonna do for
your body.
You're thinking about such alimited window in your life.
Mm-hmm.
And that I would say is aboundary that I would never

(01:19:47):
cross.
Like, and being in strengthsports, like I just don't have
an interest in doing that atall.
And, and it's not evennecessarily because it's a moral
thing.
It's just like, I don't see thepoint.
I also don't have much riding onsports at the moment for that to

(01:20:09):
ever feel like it's necessary.
But I only have one body too,and like I'm already putting it
through hell, so why take theextra risk?

Cody (01:20:17):
Yeah.
So what's your, your bottom linetakeaways for what you would try
to communicate to somebody aboutlearning to set boundaries?
You know, we talked about howwe're not given those tools as
kids, right?
And I'm just curious what yourthoughts are on how to approach

(01:20:38):
that.

Tali (01:20:39):
Well, I've mentioned in a few instances today about having
all of your eggs in one basketand how that can be maybe not
the best place to operate from.
You know, trying to live a wholelife I think is really
important.
And so like, if you're someonewho really invests hard in your
professional life, making surethat you have time for your

(01:21:01):
family, your kids, your lovedones, like those are important
boundaries to defend.
I have a really good friend who,you know, Was she's a very, she
has like great work ethic andshe was very much pressured in a
situation that was just, it'sjust unbelievable to think
about.
She has had a family member whowas in a nearly fatal accident

(01:21:24):
and her work was like, well,we're gonna still need you to
like work for the next couple ofdays before you, like, fly home
or whatever the fuck.
And she, you know, she's, it'safter having gotten the call
that someone you love is like inthe hospital and you don't know
if they're gonna live or die,like that shit's crazy to me
that anybody even like, have theaudacity to say something like
that.

(01:21:44):
But as a result, she's so, sounderstanding and giving to
people who also find themselvesin difficult situations and if
it, you know, has anything to dowith your family, like she'll
always encourage you to take thetime off so, not putting
everything in one basket, Ithink is important to realize

(01:22:05):
that our lives have lots ofdimensions to them.
Mm-hmm.
And if you're putting all ofyour eggs in one basket, there's
no guarantee that that's gonnawork out.
And we want, we should maybestrive to put our energy into
multiple places so that we canmaintain a level of perspective
and balance and energy that'sgoing to keep us sane, keep us

(01:22:28):
healthy, and keep us grounded.
I would say that that's a bottomline for me.
That's

Cody (01:22:34):
great.
I think about you.
I think what you're talkingabout too helps you, we were
just talking about the other dayabout being able to communicate
and relate to people and it's, Ibrought up a bible verse of yes,
trying to be all things to evall people, and not in a people
pleasing way, but in a way toexpose yourself to the world so

(01:22:54):
that you can communicate withthe world.
You can't know how to engagewith people with the most impact
and effectiveness if you have noclue where they're coming from.
Like, you have to be able tomeet people where they're at and
figure out where they're comingfrom.
But you can only do that throughexposing yourself to it.
Yes.

(01:23:14):
So, yeah, I think that's great.
I think my bottom line is foryou to establish a set of ethics
for yourself that is somethingthat you can stand upon.
For me, that's thenon-aggression principle.
If you're not.
familiar with it, you can lookit up, but it's, you know,
you're not gonna link to it inthe show notes.

(01:23:35):
I sure will.
But it's, you know, essentiallythat what Tali had mentioned
earlier is like you, no one hasa greater claim to your body
than you.
Because if you claim thatsomebody else has more authority
over your body than you are,then you're literally advocating
for slavery.
That's what slavery is, issomebody owning somebody else,

(01:23:56):
right?
Yeah.
And so you own yourself andthat's it.
And if you, if you really,really buy into that idea of
autonomy, then it's a deeprabbit hole, like where you can
see that being violated in ourculture constantly.
And so consent is at the core ofethics for me that all
interactions should beconsensual.

(01:24:18):
And so that is like a boundarythat I'm just not willing to
cross.
hard.
No.
You know outside of that though,I mean, like, that's a big,
that's a great big circle.
It's kinda like the circleanalogy I was talking about
before.
Mm-hmm.
is that now, once I have that fthat established, it creates a
very wide world now for me to beable to move around in.
Right.
As long as it's consensualrelationships, I can do what the

(01:24:41):
fuck I want.
Right.
As long as I'm not infringing onsomebody else's consensual.
Yes.
Lots of options there.
Yeah.
So then now it's up to me todraw boundaries of where I want
to be, what the type of person Iwanna be, the type of life I
wanna live.
And those are subjective valuesthat are subject to change.

(01:25:01):
And the only way that you canknow whether you're making
changes in the right directionor not, is to go out and live
life.
Be open and then maybe when yougo a little too far in one
direction, say, Nope, I'm gonnaback that up and draw a line
here, that I'm not gonna crossagain.

Tali (01:25:16):
Yeah.
And I think this comes up in somany of our episodes and I'm
always the one to bring it up,but having some sort of way of
assessing your choices, yourexperiences, whatever I think is
so valuable, whether it'sjournaling or confiding in
friends or loved ones, like justto be able to get some

(01:25:37):
perspective rather than justkind of like plowing through
life.
Mm-hmm.
unaware I think is so importantbecause we talked about
boundaries being thisever-changing thing and how can
we expect to change them unlesswe can observe them.

Cody (01:25:51):
Yeah.
I mean, it's ancient, ancientwisdom, right.
Know thyself.
Yes.
You can't if you're not trying,like it takes work to know
thyself.
Yes.
Feel

Tali (01:26:02):
like wrapping it up.
Yes.
I think know Thy itself is abeautiful place to end.

Cody (01:26:06):
All right.
Well, I'll end it the way that Iusually do.
Just tell you that I love youand I love doing this with you.
I love you too, honey See all.
Next week.

Tali (01:26:17):
This episode was produced by Tali Zabari and Cody
Limbaugh.
Check out our writing coachingservices and homesteading
adventures at live all yourlife.com.
For show notes, resourcesmentioned, or to submit a
question or contribution, clickon the podcast tab.

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035 How To Set Boundaries And Why It's Important: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 25

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