038 How To Judge Your Mentors: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 28

So you hire a coach, a mentor, a teacher, how can you trust what they're teaching you? 
Tali and Cody discuss some key elements and strategies for getting the most out of your mentor relationships. 

00:43 Intro

01:53 Nuno Bettencourt

09:36 How to judge your mentors, teachers, leaders, and coaches. Having a guide is good. Blind obedience is not!

11:28 How can you know something? Francis Bacon and the scientific method: According to Bacon, learning and knowledge all derive from the basis of inductive reasoning.

15:32 What are your values and incentives? What are your mentor's values and incentives? Screen your mentors - that discernment requires self-knowledge.

22:59 Even though we live in an "information age", it still holds true that you often get what you pay for!

26:46 The Final Attempt: Mentors can be more effective if they acknowledge where their students are at. Collaboration need not be off the table. And a great mentor will instill agency in their students.

33:10 Two things to gain trust in a mentor: 1) Are they collaborative and customizing info? Or is it top-down and generic? 2) Can they provide a justification for why they're teaching what they're teaching?

36:55 It's reassuring when you find a mentor who can admit when they don't know something. It becomes easier to trust what they say they do know. In addition, we can more readily trust a mentor who expects us to outgrow them rather than having a life-long or open-ended reliance on them. 

53:19 You are the only person responsible for your own decisions. So, speak up when you need to and take ownership of all of your own actions!

54:39 Separate ideas from personalities. Create a habit of considering ideas on their own merit, regardless of the source.

01:00:14 Tucker: The Man And His Dream

Couples - Proven Fitness & Intimacy Practices To Achieve Your Health and Relationship Goals Together!
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Episode Transcript

Cody (00:16):
Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh.
And I'm

Tali (00:18):
Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of
Fitness Podcast on the Live

Cody (00:23):
All Your Life Network.

Tali (00:43):
Hey, honey.
Ooh, perfect timing for theheater to turn off.
how's it going?
Good.
I just realized that my littleextra recording device is here.
Oh, there, it's, that's for you.
It turns out that the.
Little microphones that we got.
The lapel mics need to go back.
Yeah.
$50 is not a sufficient budgetfor such a thing.

(01:06):
I broke the fourth wall.
I just did it.
Is that what you're looking atme for?
I'm still talking to you though.
I'm not talking to everybodyelse.

Cody (01:16):
Yeah, you were.
All right.
So maybe I'll just leave thatwhole thing in so we all have
it.

Tali (01:27):
Can I get a witness?
What do we have in here?
Decaf.
Decaf.
Thanks.
Yes.
That's exciting.
Not only do we have decaf, butwe also on my phone have the
stupid bowl.
No, it's the Super Bowl.
Oh.
Today.
And we're not really watching itobviously because we've decided
to record instead of watch it.
But we're really in it for thehalftime show.

(01:49):
I'm in it for Rihanna and.

Cody (01:52):
Yeah.
And Rihanna's guitar player isNuno Bettencourt, who's my
childhood guitar hero, beenwatching this dude 35 years or
so.
And if you don't know who NunoBettencourt is, look him up.
Thank me.
Later.

Tali (02:09):
Speaking of Guitar Hero, I think a fun icebreaker could be
the Game Guitar Hero.
I know we both have played it.
Yes.
What is the most challengingsong you were ever able to play
on it?

Cody (02:22):
I don't think I played it enough to be able to remember
that.
Sorry to say, but I do have afun story about it.
Okay.
So I got rock band for Christmasfor the kids the first year that
all the instruments came out,like the drums.
and the guitar and themicrophone all came as a big

(02:44):
kit.
Mm-hmm.
And I got it for the kid.
Cause I have three kids andthere's three stations.
And so we got that as like aChristmas gift.
And that's an epic Christmasgift.
It was, it was really fun.
And Reagan, who was I believesix at the time ball cute, was
having a hard time with theguitar and the older kids were

(03:06):
like, wanting to dominate themicrophone.
Of course.
And so she got stuck on the drumkit and it turns out she was
like, this virtuoso, likeunbelievable.
Like picked up right, right onit.
Like within a few seconds shewas just like killing it.
And everyone is like, holy crap.
Like she, she could play thedrums.
It was really funny.

Tali (03:23):
So I would imagine if all the instruments, the drum
probably translates the most.
Yeah.
Cause the guitar doesn't, couldyou, it's like a couple buttons
and like a flippy thing.

Cody (03:33):
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, she was like legitplaying drums.
Cool.
Unfortunately, because it waslike the first model ever.
Those things got destroyed.
Within a year.
They stopped working, but andthey're really expensive to
replace.
I found out and now I don't evenknow if they have it anymore.
Probs.
Not such a fun game.

Tali (03:53):
Well, to answer my own icebreaker question, I also
played a lot of Guitar Hero.
Well, I, I guess you said youdidn't, your kids did.
I played a lot of Guitar Hero inhigh school.
Mm-hmm.
I never made it past the firstsong.
Never.
No.
But I came really, really close.
Slow.
Right.
Bare meow.

(04:14):
Even take it easy,

Cody (04:17):
even on the easy setting.
Yeah.
Why?
I just got really flustered.
Did you ever get to try to playthe drums?

Tali (04:25):
No, this was well before rock band was a thing.
Oh,

Cody (04:27):
okay.
Yeah.
He was a guitar hero.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Okay.

Tali (04:30):
Yeah.
I sucked real hard.
I

Cody (04:32):
think I played both.
They're pretty fun.

Tali (04:34):
Any video game or anything like requiring a video game
console, like just is not mystrong suit.
Never has been.
Yeah, it's

Cody (04:43):
a foreign land.
I was up on it during like thesuper N nes, like the Nintendo
Entertainment System.
Oh, okay.
That was like the second orthird generation and then that
was it.
Like I, I jumped off that trainabout then.
So ever since then

Tali (04:58):
I was really big into CD rom games.
I'm outta yeah.
Those were cool.
yeah.
Oregon Trail, whoop

Cody (05:04):
Poop.
I had a Top Gun game No Way.
Or my Commodore 64.
And the graphics engine was solike new at the time that it was
basically a black screen and.
You were like in a flightsimulator situation, but it was
all black screen until yourenemy jet would come on the

(05:25):
screen.
And then it was like a whiteoutline, drawing of a plane But
because it was just a black sky,there was no like ground or
trees or anything like that forreference.
Sure.
You could just be like going inloops and circles and
everything, and it was justblack screen and then all of a
sudden you'd pass a P plane.
It's like, oh, there is, andyou'd have to like try to come
back and shoot'em down.

(05:45):
Sounds intense.
And I didn't have a disc drivefor that.
Commodor 64.
Okay.
So I had to type in the program.
line by line, the code.
Where do you get those codes?
So at the time there was this,if not the internet, there was
two, yeah, there was twomagazines back then.
Oh my God.

(06:05):
one was like Commodore Magazineand another one was like Amiga,
which was like their supercomputer at the time.
Their, their higher end computerfrom the same company.
And they would actually haveprograms in there, games or even
office programs and stuff.
And they're literally the codein the magazine.
And you'd have to copy it downand type it in to the computer.

Tali (06:27):
Would somebody read it off to

Cody (06:29):
you or you would just No, that was just me as a kid.
Like memorizing a line, typingan in, and then if of course if
you get one thing wrong, you getlike a period outta place.
The whole thing doesn't work.
Right.
And.
It was kind of cool cuz I waslearning programming, but the
bad thing is because I didn'thave a disc drive to save any of
that work.
If you turn the computer off,you lose it.

(06:49):
Oh shit.
So I'd have to do it every time.
Yeah.
Or just leave it on, like, don'ttouch my computer.
You know, this

Tali (06:56):
is giving me dewey decimal system vibes.
Yeah.
Yikes.

Cody (07:01):
So yeah, I used to be a real technophile, real neophyte
if you will, where I was likealways into the new thing and
the new technology.
And now I don't know if I'mgetting old or if it's just the
time we live in, but I'msometimes it's scary.
What is technology?
Oh, AI and just stuff

Tali (07:23):
in the world.
Oh.
I think that scares a lot ofpeople for sure.
Yeah.
But it's amazing that, but it'sweird even in your lifetime,
like what a difference that is.
Yeah.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
That's crazy honey.
It's weird of the

Cody (07:35):
eighties.
It's weird for me though, cuz Iwas so into it.
I was so excited about thefuture and now that the future's
here, I'm like, oh, this is kindof scary.

Tali (07:42):
Well, people like you should be careful what they wish
for.
Yep.
Because some of us already knewit was gonna be scary.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think those of us wholike grew up, I feel like kids
who grew up, like my generation,like were pretty comfy already.
You know, like I had internetgrowing up around, I don't know,

(08:06):
fourth grade-ish and that, youknow, it opened the door of what
was possible, but you stilldealt with like lots of flag
times and dial up and thingswere just fucking slow.
So like you still had patience.
Mm-hmm.
to some degree.
And I think a lot of where thattechnology has led has.

(08:27):
It's been pretty like consistentfor a while, and now that I'm
entering my thirties, it's justlike, oh, there's all this shit
that you don't even know about.
Mm-hmm.
chat, chat, chat.
G p T.
Yeah.
And like, one of my clients is15 years old and I forget that
we're like 15 years apart.
And the things that she'stalking about, I like, don't
know.
It's just weird.
It's a really strange feeling.

(08:48):
I don't love it, but whatever.
That's just, that's the life,that's just how it goes.
Mm-hmm.
for every generation, everyperson.
Yep.
I have another though.
I have another icebreakerquestion for you.
How comfortable are you in yournew chair?

Cody (09:05):
It's okay.
Just, okay.
No, I like the chair, but I'm atan angle.
I'd like to sit like this, butmy mic boom isn't long enough.
Can you?

Tali (09:12):
Oh.
Mm-hmm.
So why?
Yeah, you're just leaning in.
I'm cozy.
We just got new.
Our last one fell apart.
And I say last one because weonly had one good office chair
that we would switch back andforth and then somebody would
have the shitty chair overthere, which is just like a
regular wooden chair with apillow on it.

Cody (09:30):
We are upgraded.

Tali (09:32):
Yes, we are.
This whole area is quite snazzy.
Yes.
Do you wanna introduce today's

Cody (09:37):
topic?
Well, we are winging it today.
Winging it.
So I'm not sure what the titleof this episode's gonna be yet
until the end and I will wrap itup with a good title by the time
we finish this combo.
So what are the guts?
But the guts having a guide isnot the same as blind obedience.
So we've already done a coupleof podcasts now on finding a
good mentor slash

Tali (09:58):
coach.
Yes.
And the importance of it really.
Yeah.
Advocating

Cody (10:01):
for it.
And then another podcast.
the idea of teaching in order tolearn, like become a teacher.
And it helps you do, you knowit's a new dimension of being a
student is to pass on yourknowledge to somebody else, and
that was a really fun podcast.

Tali (10:16):
And we've also talked about self

Cody (10:17):
ownership.
Yes.
And so these all kind of mushedtogether, don't they?
Yeah.
So this is a, a bit of acallback to some of those
topics, but hopefully a newnuanced yeah.
Approach to some of these ideas.
So the rest of the note that wehave here is, for instance
modifying your workout apartfrom what your coach tells you
because you know your bodybetter.

(10:39):
And if you haven't had a coachbefore, maybe you can relate to
this in terms of like aphysician or something, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sometimes you get medical adviceand it's like, well, you, you
know your body better thananybody else and are, so are

Tali (10:51):
you sure you haven't had braces?
Cody?
You have, yeah.

Cody (10:53):
Then we say, keep thinking for yourself even if information
is coming from a trusted source.
Let alone a questionable one.
So this obviously can be a broadtopic.
Totally.
And I kind of wish, I kind ofwish I had been able to do some
research for this episodebeforehand for what, because I
have some very peripheralknowledge of some philosophy

(11:17):
that I'd like to bring up, butI, it's, yeah.
I'm not comfortable with itenough to bring it up and get
deep into it in ourconversation,

Tali (11:25):
but, well, I think you should bring it up anyway and we
can explore the idea.

Cody (11:28):
Yeah.
Well, and some of the ideas arekind of the basis of knowledge.
Like how do you know something?
Hmm.
So there's terms like a prioriwhich is the terminology.
And like I said, it's kind of onthe peripheral of Oh no.
My memory cuz I used to be intothis kind of thing.

(11:49):
And then I've kind of like letit slip as far as getting into
these terms.
But the idea is that there'ssome knowledge that you can know
before experiencing things andsome that are only experiential.
And Sir Francis Bacon is one ofthe philosophers that was kind
of in this idea of how, how canyou know something?
Sure.
And what can we know?

(12:11):
Can we trust our senses?
And it's interesting becausethere's, there's, there's
logical arguments for both sidesof you can only know something
if you can sense it.
Slash experience it.
And then there's also anargument for the fact that you
don't even know what your sensesare telling you.

(12:31):
Sure.
Like we're kind of living adream in a way.
Well, and how limited

Tali (12:34):
are they?

Cody (12:35):
Yeah.
So there's a very deepphilosophical rabbit hole here.
Yeah.
This
feels

Tali (12:38):
really deep to just be kicking things off with Well,
I'm not ready, I just wanted tobring it up

Cody (12:42):
cuz I, I can't go much deeper than that because like I
said, I didn't get the chance toreview fair the philosophers and
who had these ideas.
And I'm not first enough to justbring it up off the top of my
head.
But it is part of the concept ofwhat we're talking about here
though, is like, how do you makegood decisions if you are being
mentored or you have a teacherslash guide?

(13:06):
You also have to use your ownreason in order to make your own
decisions.
At the end of the day, you ownyour own decisions, even if
somebody else is.
Leading you in a way.
And so that kind of brings us tothe question of like, well, how
do you, how do you discern?

Tali (13:23):
Yes.
I love that word.
That's one of my favorite wordsof all time.
Really?
Yes.
But I pitched something to youand you didn't swing at it.
I just think that story is sofunny about you going to the
dentist and this happening toyou multiple times.
Can you

Cody (13:37):
enlighten us?
Yeah.
Well, I have fairly straightteeth.

Tali (13:43):
Fairly, your teeth are perfect.
So straight and, and so many ofthem.
And so opaque.

Cody (13:49):
Yeah.
Well, I have been to multipledentists in my life who have in
one particular, that justliterally wanted to argue with
me of whether or not I had hadbraces before.
Basically calling me a fuckingliar.
I was

Tali (14:05):
getting brace.
Or that You

Cody (14:06):
must have forgotten.
Yeah.
Oh, I forgot I had braces.
No.
You know, when did you havebraces?
I've never had braces.
Are you sure?
Yeah.
I've never had braces.
I'm like, I don't believe you.
I'm like, you're literallycalling me a liar.
Like, shut up.
I was so mad.
The

Tali (14:22):
dentist already kind of ruffles

Cody (14:24):
your feathers.
Yeah.
I'm not a fan.
Like I'm, if you're a dentistand you're listening to this,
no, it's nothing personal.
But my experiences have notbeen, I would say out of all the
dentists I've been to, I've hadlike a single positive
experience out of every timeI've ever been to the dentist.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Nobody likes to go to

Tali (14:44):
the dentist.
When it comes to the dentist.
I actually kind of give all thatautonomy away.
I'm willing to bow down towhatever they're telling me,
because not only have they goneto school and they can, they can
like physically see in my mouthin a way that I cannot.
Yeah.
You know?
And I only see a dentist liketwice a year.
Mm-hmm.
So everything that happensbetween those two appointments,

(15:07):
like it's just crazy town likeYou know, it's important we talk
all the time about how we don'treally wanna take on clients who
only see us once a week cuz it'snot enough touchpoints to Yeah.
Actually propel them in thedirection that we are asking
them to go.
So I feel like I would benefitfrom more dentist appointments,
perhaps my habits would probablybe a lot better if I had that

(15:30):
pressure or that person toanswer to.

Cody (15:32):
Yeah.
I have a bit of mistrust becauseit's also kind of part of the
whole western corporatizedmedical industry though as well.
You know one of our big beefswith the medical industry as a
whole, it, besides themonopolization.
How it's structured, butthere's, if you can't prescribe

(15:52):
a patented drug or cut somebodyopen, then physicians don't have
a lot of options for you.
You know, and sometimes theyeven seem, in my opinion,
negligent in their advice thatthey give to patients because
they ignore anything that's nota high profit cure or treatment
for something.

(16:13):
Yeah, I think at the detrimentof their patients, like, I see
this all the

Tali (16:16):
time.
Well, you were just talkingabout that with some of your
clients who Yeah.
You know, who did not get somereally easily accessible advice.

Cody (16:26):
Yeah.
So I have, I can say this, Imean, I'm not gonna name names,
but I have a client that I'veworked with that has
Parkinson's.
and there are studies datingback 20 years that I was able to
find in about a one minuteGoogle search.
I found five different studies,and like I said, one of them
dated back to 2020, so it's over20 years old.

(16:48):
Or not 2020, sorry, 2000.
And Lion's main mushrooms haveshown promising results in
assisting with Parkinson's,dementia, just aging brains in
general.
Lion's, main mushrooms can helpregrow neurons and help regrow
the myelin sheath that protectsnerves.

(17:09):
And so any degenerative diseasethat attacks those structures it
seems obvious that Lions Mainmight be beneficial and.
Somebody who has had Parkinson'sfor 30 years and is constantly
getting treatment and on drugsand like always, you know, they
have these specializedphysicians and yet the subject

(17:32):
has never come up until they goto their personal trainer and I
bring it up and they're like,wow.
And they start looking at allthese studies and immediately
buy some mushrooms.
And it just pisses me off thatthere's very well established
studies and evidence that thiscould be beneficial.
Notice I'm saying is it could bebeneficial.

(17:53):
I'm not saying it's a cure, butit's also not gonna hurt
anybody.
Yeah.
Like taking mushrooms is notgoing to interact with your
drugs in any negative way oranything like this.
As far as lions may, don't sueme.
This is not medical advice.
this is my disclaimer.
So if you're listening, youknow, check with your physician,
but they'll tell you that theydon't know.
And that's what pisses me off.
It's like if you're a specialistin a disease and you can't keep

(18:16):
up on a study that's 20 yearsold, just to even mention it,
that's a resource that couldcost your, your patient$20 a
month.
I mean, come on.
That's, to me, that's negligent.

Tali (18:29):
Well, sure.
I think there are a lot ofdifferent things that are coming
up for me just hearing thatparticular story.
One, continuing education.
Think about how often you hadopportunities for continuing
education as a coach.
Mm-hmm.
with running a gym.
When do you have time for that?

Cody (18:48):
You know, I'd like to think that I stayed on it.
I mean, it may not have beenstructured continuing education,
but I was constantly seeking onmy own.

Tali (18:58):
I guess I just mean to say like, once your job kicks off
mm-hmm.
and you're serving all of theseclients or all of these
patients, you know, you cancarry a lot of the knowledge
that you already have forwardand it's gonna benefit a lot of
people.
Mm-hmm.
is it going to cover all theground?
Probably not.
You're gonna have a lot of blindspots.
Oh yeah.
Especially the more time thatgoes on and more studies that

(19:21):
are done and come out and arepublished and Yeah.
I think that's a huge order.
That's a tall order.
Big

Cody (19:26):
demand.
I agree with that, but, but I'mgonna push back a little bit
because it's not just havingdifficulty keeping up.
It's a.
An ignorance of anything thatisn't a prescription drug.
Sure.
Well, there's also, that's whatI'm

Tali (19:43):
talking about.
So the next thing I was gonnabring up are values, right?
Yeah.
Like in terms of what your, whatyou're thinking about your job
as a mentor is, is it to make asmuch money as possible?
Is it to serve as many people aspossible?
Is it to be giving the mostbeneficial, less invasive, maybe
more proactive approachespossible?

(20:04):
There are a lot of differenttypes of physicians out there.
There are a lot of differenttypes of dentists out there,
different types of coaches.
Mm-hmm.
And this actually came uprecently too because my sister,
she's been wanting to work witha trainer for a while in person
because she's just not likefinding her groove or pushing

(20:26):
herself enough training on herown.
And, you know, she's got likewonky joints and can't.
Can't rely on training methodsthat she's done in the past
because she's kind of strainedherself too far.
Mm-hmm.
in those realms.
And so she wants to, toinvestigate some other forms of
exercise.
And so she told me that she wentto the gym near her house and

(20:49):
met with the personal trainerand I just said, you know, make
sure you ask how they, if theyhave any other clients who have
injuries or hyper flexibilitylike you have, you know, you
have to screen your mentors inthe same way that we screen
clients mm-hmm.
In terms of if it's gonna be agood fit.
Cuz it made me think of ourother client who has had a

(21:09):
shoulder issue ever since shewent to a personal trainer.
Mm-hmm.
You know, with some like newyoung fit kid who like really
didn't actually have a lot ofcoaching experience and pushed
her too far.
Mm-hmm.
And that's definitely somethingthat you had mentioned kind of
in this little blurb of.
This conversation that we weregonna have today about knowing
your body better.

(21:30):
And I think a lot of that has tobe your discernment upfront,
seeing if you mesh well withyour practitioner, whatever, in
whatever realm.
You know.
We also have this experiencewith a coach in the county that
we went to go work with, and wenoted right off the bat that
they were really rigid abouttheir practices.

(21:53):
Mm-hmm.
and weren't really open to like,new information or.
answering questions.
And for us, that was a reallybig red flag.
Noticing that rigidity.
It just, there's a staleness tothat practitioner.
I think.
If you, if you get thosefeelings right away, I don't
think that's gonna be a good fitfor you.

(22:14):
Yeah.
And like I said with thedentist, I don't really need to
see like a progressive dentist.
I just need someone to clean myteeth and keep them in my head.
Well, I guess that's what

Cody (22:23):
I come back to though, is that it's part of that whole
western medicine culture whereit's like there's a certain box
that they work within and that'sit.
And so, you know, it wasn't longago when they were using metal
feeling fillings to, to plug upholes in your teeth.
Mm-hmm.
that were poisoning people, youknow?
Yeah.
I have metal fillings, like itwasn't, I'm not talking about a

(22:44):
hundred years ago, I'm talkingabout a couple decades ago.
Yeah.
And so me, you know, I stillhold a healthy bit of skepticism
for the The methodologies, therigidness, the, yeah.

Tali (22:59):
Well, you probably have to pay more if you want the kind of
practitioner that you want,maybe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that that's alsojust part of looking for
mentorship.
Like, you're gonna get what youpay for often.
And it's, it's tricky becausewe're wanting to do so much in
our lives, and we are of an erawhere like everything is

(23:23):
subscription based.
Everything is like a monthlybill now.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think when we'rewanting to have the Netflix and
a car payment and you know, apersonal trainer, like we have
to be able to afford it allsomehow.
And so it's easy to wanna cutcorners in some areas.
And it's possible that if you'retrying to cut corners with

(23:46):
coaching, that that's whatyou're gonna get, you know?
And.
I think a lot of it is justbeing okay with testing things
out and seeing how it goes.
Mm-hmm.
we don't really build that intoour model, which maybe we should
consider like kind of a trialrun.
We, we offer packages like foreight, 12 week packages and they

(24:08):
get to choose mm-hmm.
they obviously get a price cutthe larger the package, but it
does set them up for opportunityto try it on mm-hmm.
and then move on.
Mm-hmm.
if they want.
And I think that's important togo into any new endeavor.
Any new relationship with apractitioner is like, I'm gonna
give this a try, see how itgoes.

(24:30):
Because there's a pendulumswing.
Mm-hmm.
between having mentorship that'slike all like very authoritarian
and then not having any at all,you know.
and I don't think that everybodynecessarily wants the same
things out of that relationship.
And so making sure that you findthe right fit is super crucial.

(24:50):
And I know we've talked aboutthat before.

Cody (24:51):
Yeah.
Well, getting what you pay forreally comes, I've seen the
stark difference in the types ofinformational products that I've
gotten online.
I've been working with businessideas and trying to do location

(25:12):
independent income sources sincethe internet was invented.
You know, I've been alwayslooking for different ways to
grow and different businessmodels to experiment with.
And we are in an era right nowwhere you can take unlimited
free courses.
I mean, you could sign up forfive a day if you wanted.
Mm-hmm.
because there's so many freecourses out there.

(25:34):
And I will say, after having.
Coughed up the money for somemore expensive learning
opportunities that it's a vastdifference between knowledge
that you pay for and knowledgethat is just sort of out there
on the internet.
Okay.
There's a depth that's differentand there's a consolidation

(25:58):
that's different.
There's lots of freeinformation.
You could, you know, get, I'msure that you could get the
equivalent of a master's degreejust through watching YouTube
videos, but it would probablytake you 20 years to do it.
Mm-hmm.
because it's just a rabbit holeafter a rabbit hole of
distraction and theinformation's not organized well
and it's, it's out there andit's everywhere.
And you have to dig and discernand, and try to figure it out.

(26:20):
Yes.
Whereas if you pay for anorganized mentor who's it's
already done for you.
Yeah.
For you.
Yeah.
It's just like, don't, don't getdistracted by that shiny object.
Just look at this and That'sgonna be your organized approach
to learning that is worth themoney.
Even if you can get the sameinformation for free, it's worth

(26:40):
having it fed to you in anappropriate way.
Mm-hmm.
that's gonna make everything alot more efficient.

Tali (26:46):
We also watched this YouTube series that was really
cool.
I believe Weight Life,weightlifting House, put it on,
we can put a link to it.
Mm-hmm.
And it's called the FinalAttempt and it's following
several different femaleweightlifters kind of fighting
for Olympic spots and what thatprocess is like.
And, you know, weightliftingdoesn't get a lot of air time

(27:08):
and so it's really fun to hearinterviews with these athletes
who, you know, I follow them allonline, every single one of'em.
And you know, we're all makingTikTok videos and reels and
stuff, so you don't really getto hear them talk for more than
30 seconds.
Mm-hmm.
So I was really intrigued tolisten to this and.
One of the first things thatreally struck me was a coach who

(27:30):
was talking about one of theirathletes who was transitioning
from a junior lifter to a seniorlifter and being like, well,
this is now an autonomous adultand I really have to train her
differently now.
She has also been in the sport along time, so she knows it in
and out.
You know, the, a coach has areally interesting role when it

(27:52):
comes to an athlete who'sseasoned.
They don't have to teach themhow to do things anymore.
Wasn't

Cody (27:58):
that a refreshing thing to hear?

Tali (27:59):
It was.
It's like the first time I'veever freaking heard it.
But yeah, what he was saying isthat oh gosh, I'm gonna, I
forget, I forget his namealready, but he's the coach of
power and grace performance, Ibelieve is the, the name of the
team.
link to them too.
Anyway and he's talking aboutJordan De Cruz who's an
incredible, teeny tinypowerhouse of a lifter.

(28:20):
And he was talking about howtheir work together is really
collaborative.
Mm-hmm.
And that just makes me think ofthat note that you have in there
about knowing your body better.
Where, you know, if you'reworking with somebody who can
articulate and has awareness andsensitivity and experience with

(28:40):
their body to a degree wherethey can give you a coach as a
coach, really importantinformation that you can use
mm-hmm.
You better take it.
You know, I think about that alot with nutrition coaching too,
because when I'm gettingcheck-ins with clients, I'm
trying to gauge their stresslevels, their sleep, their mood,

(29:01):
their you know, feelings ofaccomplishment and confidence.
The more information I get, thebetter coach I can be.
Mm-hmm.
And there's this weird thingthat happens in coaching a lot
where like we're just spewingstuff Yeah.
At a wall.
And maybe that's a group fitnessthing.
Mm-hmm.
or something maybe that's moreappropriate for group fitness.

(29:23):
Cuz we've talked about, youknow, in our own endeavors, how
we don't really wanna be hurtinggroups of 30 people.

Cody (29:30):
Well I did, you know, we covered this a little bit on the
first leadership episode that wedid where we drew some lines
between the difference, thedifference between a coach slash
mentor and a teacher.
Like sometimes we have teachingroles where we're at the front
of a class and we're teaching aconcept and that's a valid

(29:50):
concept.
You know, we can show you don'twant this to break down while
you're doing a deadlift, youknow, you want to maintain this
neutral lumbar, et cetera.
Those are valid concepts foreverybody in the room.
But that's not coaching, that'steaching.
You're teaching a concept to thegroup, but coaching is when you
go up to the individual and yousee like, oh, you have really

(30:12):
long femurs.
Maybe you should take a sumostance today because I'm not
seeing a great position when youhave to reach all the way down
and grab the bar with yourlevers and your experience or
whatever.
Let's try this different stanceand you're correcting that
individual that's coaching, but,but that was a collaborative
thing because you got feedbackfrom them in Sure.

(30:34):
In that case it was from theirbody.

Tali (30:36):
But still at the same time, you know, when I work with
clients who, you know, you'reteaching the the snatch and the
clean and jerk and it's easy forthem to kind of like, Mix
objectives of each one.
Cuz you know, the terminology isso silly.
Mm-hmm.
that it doesn't stick inpeople's minds.
Mm-hmm.
easily enough.
It's like its own language.
It is.
Yeah.
And they don't like, sound likewhat they are like when I Yeah.

(30:59):
Usually when I bring up that myfavorite lift is the snatch.
Everyone like chuckles cuz it'syou know, a dirty word.
I love sketches too.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
you know what I mean?
Anyway referring to the lift,the Olympic lift, the snatch you
know, it's easy for people to belike, where my hands should be,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And a lot of times my responseis, where do you feel the

(31:23):
strongest?
Because yes, you.
your hands to be in relation toyour shoulders in a certain
position.
Mm-hmm.
or to your knees or whatever.
However, there's not like aparticular measurement that's
gonna work for everybody.
Oh right.
Yeah, sure.
You also have to kind of trythings on to kind of see, you
know, I can see pretty well inan athlete like, oh, they're

(31:43):
looking really compressed, oryou know, too far forward.
Let's open it up and adjusttheir positioning or whatever by
sliding their hands out on thebar.
But I think it's also reallyimportant to like instill that
agency within them.
We've talked about how we wannado that in our group settings.
We kind of want to teach peoplehow to coach we want, cuz we

(32:05):
wanna be able to participatewith them.
Mm-hmm.
we don't really wanna be in thefront of

Cody (32:08):
the class.
We wanna teach an objective ofwhat the workout is supposed to
accomplish.
Yes.
And then help people strategizehow to get there.
Yeah,

Tali (32:15):
totally.
That is so different fromanything that has ever been
modeled for me in, in aprofessional coaching setting.
And what's so cool about havingyour own gym and having your own
business is you can do whateveryou want And it feels really
good because I've been on theother end where I feel like my

(32:39):
job is just to do whatever coachsays.
And yes, there's something thatI liked about that, you know,
the closer that I can, likepeople please.
Mm-hmm.
the better an athlete I was butit also drove me crazy.
It made me feel like I wasn't incontrol of my life.
Mm-hmm.
especially when I was getting somuch to it of it to the sport.

(33:01):
So well, it's, it's really aquestion of empowering other
people.
Yeah.
You know, at the dentist youprobably did not feel very
empowered.

Cody (33:10):
No.
And one of the things that.
Helps with trust or in thediscernment of what you should
be listening to, followingorders for or whatnot, is I
think two things.
One is collaborative.
What you were just talking aboutis your mentor collaborating

(33:30):
with you and taking feedbackfrom you and asking you
questions.
That helps me trust the mentormore because I feel like they
are actually listening to me andgiving me advice based on my
situation.
Not just some generic thing thatthey are stuck in the mud, like
this is the way it's done.

(33:51):
The second thing is theirability to justify with the
teaching, and this has beensomething that's always been a
favorite thing for me to do, andI think sometimes clients even
like roll their eyes.
Like I don't, I don't need toknow why.
Just tell me what to do.
That's true.
Not everybody wants it.
Yeah.
But for me it's important to beable to back up what I'm
teaching with a reason.
you know, I'm not having you dothis exercise because it sucks.

(34:12):
I'm having you do it becauseit's going to be an important
function for you to be able toget up off the floor when you're
80.
Yeah.
And I can promise you, if youcan do 50 burpees for time when
you're 70, you're much morelikely to be able to get off the
floor at 80.
Right?
Yeah.
Like there's some justificationthere.

(34:33):
Or I can get a lot moretechnical than that.
But my point is that I have areason for what I'm teaching.
And if somebody asks me at anygiven moment in my coaching, why
are we doing this?
I can come up with a reason andif not, I shouldn't be teaching
it.
Like why we're not here to justlike make you sweat or make you
suffer or whatever.
There's some reasoning to backit up.

(34:55):
So those two things really to meas a student, that helps me
trust the information more.
Hmm.
If they can justify why they'reteaching me something.
You know what the point is,what's the underlying principle?
And second, if they're asking mequestions and I'm part of the
decision making process, or atleast they can fool me into
thinking that I am Sure.

(35:16):
And this is a part of the reasonwhy I guess the dentist
experience hasn't been great forme either because a lot of times
it's just a lot of condescendingremarks and, you know, I, I will
bring something up like, wellthis is really strange cuz this
started like two weeks ago.
It was like a light switch, itjust came on.
And they're like, oh no, no, no.

(35:37):
It's not caused by anything elseexcept this.
It's just a buildup of that.
And it's like there's nopossibility that it could be
anything else.

Tali (35:45):
You know what though, in coaching it's so, like
communication is such a big partof it.
Maybe dentistry doesn't

Cody (35:52):
they needed some communication classes.
Maybe.

Tali (35:54):
Like, maybe that's not something that.
Brought up as important.
Like Sure.
There's like bedside manner.
Yeah.
I guess I don't even know ifthat comes up in dentistry, but
it does in other healthcarepositions.
But yeah, I don't know.
I wonder if that's a part oftheir curriculum.
I wouldn't know.
We would have to ask him if shecould enlighten us on that.

(36:17):
Yeah.
Sorry, I keep putting this oncuz I really want our logo to be
available.
I just need to change mysettings.
So why don't you go ahead and

Cody (36:26):
Carry the conversation by myself.
Mm-hmm.
you want me to break the, thethird wall and talk to our
audience?
You mean the fourth wall?
Whatever, break this wall.
Well I'm not meaning to justshit on dentists.
I'm not, I wasn't intending onthat.

Tali (36:39):
He's had a really hard You've had a really hard week.
Yeah, I have.
With your oral health.

Cody (36:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've been in pain for a coupleweeks now and has not been
great.
Experience.
But it's just a, an example ofsome of what we're talking
about.
So how do you discern, you know,other than the two things that
I've brought up as far asfeeling like there's
conversation and collaborationand then also being able to

(37:06):
justify the house.
And whys what else do you thinkis needed for a student to be
able to discern whether theyshould take a lesson from their
mentor or not?
Cuz sometimes it's appropriateto reject something that your
teacher is saying.

Tali (37:25):
Well, something that hasn't come up yet that has
always been really valuable tome is when somebody doesn't know
something and they tell you thatthey don't know and they're
taking the opportunity to bereally honest and humble about
it.
You gain trust, mad respect.
Yeah, absolutely.
And.
I can't think of a single coachthat has ever said that to me.

(37:47):
like you said, sometimes theyjust, there's kind of like a
trickery involvement to likesound smart or sound superior or
whatever.
Like you feel pressure to give areason mm-hmm.
but to say like, you know,intuitively that makes sense to
me, or, you know, I don'tactually know.
We should look into that.
Mm-hmm.
I think that would go a long wayfor me.
And I, like I said, I don'treally have like, concrete

(38:09):
examples of what that would bebut I think I've mentioned in
another episode that, you know,my mom, she is very poised and
always delivers full packages ofinformation.
You never really see her kind oflike in the throes of her
challenges.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And she's been showing that morein my adulthood.

(38:32):
A conscious effort on her part,and I've made sure to really
positively reinforce thatbecause there's something about
seeing her working through stuffand trying to figure things out
and sharing it.
That makes me trust her more.
There's something about havingeverything kind of pre-packaged

(38:52):
and given to you on a silverplatter with a bow on it that
feels mistrusting sometimesbecause you're not able to see
the points of connection.
Mm-hmm.
you're only seeing their pointof view when they're able to
look back, which, you know,hindsight's 2020.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think it's been reallyvaluable in the past to watch my

(39:16):
coaches working out, or I've hadclients who come to my
weightlifting meets, you know,they're seeing you at work.
And you know, we've alwaysworked in gyms where you weren't
allowed to train with yourclients, like alongside a class.
Mm-hmm.
like, you know, even in thosebigger classes where we'd have
like two coaches running it Ithink there's something super

(39:37):
valuable.
Like even in personal training,like when I've worked with one
of my consistent clients rightnow, in the early days, like,
you know, with weightliftingit's so hard to teach it in a
vacuum.
It's so much easier to havegroups of people so you can
watch and learn mm-hmm.
and, you know, for a while wewere putting on YouTube videos

(40:00):
and things so we could just kindof like watch weightlifting
between sets and kind of talkabout stuff.
And then our power went out andI've never set the TV up again.
But in those first few weeks,like I would take attempts so
not only she could get rest, butshe could observe mm-hmm.
I needed to give heropportunities to observe.
Mm-hmm.
And I think there's somethingabout opening up that process

(40:24):
and showing people that andhaving vulnerability yourself.
I think that's gonna go a longway.
And this is definitely a newerkind of coaching that we've been
doing.
And I don't know if it's becauseit's in the comfort of our own
home or because it's not like mymain source of income that I
don't feel like it has to beperformative.
Mm-hmm.
something feels different, but Ithink a lot of it also has to be

(40:49):
having been kind of burned byfeeling like I was being told
what to do all the time.
Overly structured.
Yeah.
And I don't, I want, I wantweightlifting and I want weight
loss and I want all that to be afun experience for people.
Mm-hmm.
And I also want people to feellike they can do it on their own
if they have to want to,whatever.

(41:12):
You know, I don't want people tobe dependent on me.
Mm-hmm.
forever.
Mm-hmm.
I don't wanna be dependent onanyone forever.
And I still think that all ofthe, you know, all these
pursuits like really benefitfrom having a watchful eye and
someone who can course correctand see the bigger picture when
you can't, like all of thoseroles as a mentor are so

(41:33):
important, but you gotta givepeople power too.
Mm-hmm.
you know, I'm trying to teachone of my clients right now to
choose her own jumps in weight.
I'll give her like how I want itto feel.
Like, on a scale of one to 10,you know, we've practiced with,
do you wanna take a big bite,little bite, whatever.
And, you know, if a weight tookher for a doozy, like how did

(41:57):
that feel?
Do you think you could do thatagain?
Or do you wanna go up, like,just trying to pose questions.
Mm-hmm.
you know, your birthday was thisweekend and I asked you about
wisdom that you took from thisyear, and you mentioned asking
the right questions.
Mm-hmm.
and I think.
That's a huge part of mentorshiptoo.
You gotta ask questions.

(42:18):
You are not an all-knowingbeing.
And we've talked about howcoaching you can be in a
position to coach if you'reseveral steps ahead of whoever
you're coaching.
And you can, you can work withthat, but like, don't get ahead
of yourself of like where you'reat.
You know?
And that's why I feel likeanytime I get a whiff of

(42:38):
arrogance from coaching, I'mdone.
Mm-hmm.
I'm out.

Cody (42:42):
I guess that's another, a separate takeaway.
You mentioned empowerment, and Ithink that that's a good clue to
be able to build trust in whatyou're learning is if your coach
seems to be setting you up forputting themselves out of work.
You know, if, if your mentor isaiming you in a direction that

(43:07):
is going to surpass them or.
to make you less dependent onthem, then that seems like more
trustful, trustworthyinformation rather than, we'll
just stick with me kid and we'llgo far.
You know, like kind of anattitude of dependency like you
were saying, and or justpushback too.

(43:30):
Yeah.
Well, I think the empowermentthing is its own thing though.
I mean, I think it's worthreally emphasizing that point.
You brought it up and I thinkit's a great point that if
you're leader, teacher, mentor,coach, whatever, is empowering
you to be able to make decisionson your own and maybe even go
off on your own and not workwith them one day, then that

(43:54):
seems like more trustworthyinformation.
Dependency.

Tali (43:59):
Yes.
I mean, it's like inrelationships, right?
Mm-hmm.
if you feel someone beingdependent on you or clinging too
hard or whatever, that naturallycreates a desire from whoever's
experiencing that to push themthe hell away.
Like they're just dynamics andenergy, I think that we have to

(44:19):
take into account here in termsof like, what's gonna be safe,
what's gonna inspire longevityall the things that we want for
our athletes as coaches.
And we can't, we can't ask themto be like an obedient client

(44:40):
because, you know, we're takingpower away from them if that's
the position we put them in.
Mm.
It's almost the exact oppositeobjective.
And so it really comes offconfu.
It's a very confusing thing tome that it's kind of common that
coach has kind of take anauthoritative role.
Yeah.

(45:01):
You know, that first time I everwent to CrossFit I was like, I'm
never going back again.
Cuz that coach was so scary.
Yeah.

Cody (45:08):
Yeah.
Well I think there's animpression, and I think this is
taught often too, I keepthinking of the medical field
for instance.
Like, if your doctor seemsunsure, then that makes you
scared.
Let's get, you're supposed tohave all the answers, you know,
I'm paying you to have all theanswers kind of thing.
But I think that can reallybackfire when people are not
allowed to say, I don't know,or, Or they come at something

(45:33):
with such arrogance that makesyou feel like you are not privy
or capable of understanding.
Totally.
And that's certain information.
I feel like gatekeepers, youknow?

Tali (45:43):
Yes.
I would say that that's likeevery adolescents experience
with their parents.
Don't you think?
Like if you're constantly beingtold no, yeah.
You shouldn't be doing this.
You can't be doing this.
Whatever reminds me, it's like,give me some breathing room.
You know?
Yeah.
Like, trust me.
Mm-hmm.
And that feeling of mistrust islike what creates the pushback?
It's what creates the rebellion.
It's what creates the angertowards your parents, I think.

(46:05):
Mm-hmm.
I would definitely say that'sthe case for me.
Oh yeah.
If there's such a strong hold orlike such a tight grip Yeah.
I'm gonna do everything I can toloosen it.
Oh yeah.

Cody (46:13):
I think the cliche.
Teenage rebellion thing is youknow, obviously there's some
rights of passage that seem tobe historically consistent, no
matter how far back we look inhistory.
I think you took all the coffee,but in in modern times, I think
the reason why there's thiscliche of the rebellious
teenager is because of a lot ofthe structures that are in place

(46:36):
in how we raise our kids.
Like here you have this personwho is say 16 quote unquote old
enough to drive a vehicle, whichcan kill somebody.
Like it's a big responsibility,but they can't determine their
own bedtime or something likethat.
It's c come on.
Like, it's ridiculous.
The, you're not

Tali (46:55):
even giving them the chance to learn the lesson that
if you go to sleep reallyfucking late and you have to go
to school next day.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's a potent lesson.
It really is.
Yeah.

Cody (47:05):
But we have this weird culture of, you know, Supposedly
good parenting being thismicromanaged thing.
And then there's this cliche ofthe rebellious teenager, it's
like, well, why do you thinkthey're rebellious?
It's because you're an overcontrolling prick and you're
not, you're not allowing thatperson, hello, human being to
have the autonomy that theyobviously have.

(47:28):
They have a brain, they have theability to, may not be fully
formed, but still they have theability to reason and make
decisions for themselves thatyou're not allowing them to
make.
Well, that's, and then youwonder why they rebel.
Well,

Tali (47:40):
that's been the story in your household, and I know that
you've exercised less hands-onapproaches with your kids.
Mm-hmm.
But I would imagine like so muchof that hands-on approach or
that tight grip is out of fear,right?
Yeah.
I'm sure you're, that's yourhuman.
You made them, your job is toprotect them, and you're
terrified that if you don't havea stronghold, something bad's

(48:01):
gonna happen to them, but,That's your own issue.
Yeah.
That's not your kids' fault.
Yeah.
You know, that's definitelywhat's pushed on living in
society.
Society too.
Living.
Living.
Yeah.
Well, like living through fearis like a, it's something to
look at in and of itself.
Yeah.

Cody (48:14):
Well, we live in definitely this feature where
clickbait now, but it used to beheadlines back in the day.
Like there's no differencebetween the news of the fifties
headlines and the clickbait oftoday, except that it's just
ramped up in volume.
But fear sells, you know, fearsells newspapers, fear sells,

(48:36):
clicks now online.
And so we live in this worldthat's painted to be this scary
ass place.
And it's, most people are prettygood, you know, generally
speaking, we're all gonna makeit.
Okay.
You know, I think the last timeI looked up the statistic was
probably 10 years ago.
So I don't know how up to datethis is.

Tali (48:55):
Well, we've talked about how much technology has changed
in 10 years,

Cody (48:59):
but in, in regards to the cause of death of people.
Mm-hmm.
you have a 92% chance of dyingof something that's age related.
Now that might be heart disease,cancer you know, the big
killers, the diabetes, that kindof thing, Alzheimer's, whatever.
But an age related illness, ifyou take all illnesses and age

(49:23):
related things, frailty andthings out of it, you only have
about an 8% chance of dying fromlike a car wreck or a murder.
And that includes suicide too.
Like all the things out therethat are so scary that we have
to protect everybody.
it's really not that prevalent.
You've got about an 8% chance ofdying prematurely, so to speak.
Mm-hmm.
and but we're, that's not whatthe impression that you would

(49:45):
get from like watching the newsor reading headlines or
scrolling through social media.
The world is like the scaryplace full of kidnappers and,
and, and child traffickers andterrorists and oh my god, you
know, it's like this.
Well,

Tali (49:58):
it's not to say it doesn't, doesn't exist.
And it's just like in training,like, doesn't mean an injury
doesn't exist, it totally does.
But in the same way thatauthoritative coaches really, I
think, do more harm for athletesin the way that they cannot, you
know, speak up if they'refeeling off or.

(50:23):
An injury coming on, or whateverit is.
It's the same thing foroverprotective parents.
Like, you're not letting yourkids learn the lessons that are
gonna make them strong.
Yeah.
Or they're gonna allow them tospeak up or, you know, advocate
for themselves.
Like, we're, we're reallyshutting that down.

Cody (50:40):
Oh yeah.
Back in the early days ofblogging, when blog, it wasn't
even called blogging, it wasjust like online forums and
stuff.
There's this really coolarticle, and it's been redone
many times, I think, by otherpeople.
But it was something to theeffect of like 10 dangerous
things that your children shouldbe able to do.
And it was like, ooh, playingwith fire, playing with knives,

(51:01):
you know, jumping off somethingor whatever.
It was like things that youshould let your kids do.
Ah, supervised.
Supervised.
That's the point is like, okay,playing with fire is dangerous.
Therefore you should teach yourchildren how to be safe.
Like you do not play with firelike in the house, you know,

(51:22):
lighten your bedroom on fire orsomething by playing with
matches.
Here's, here's what it means.
You know, maybe they even getburned trying to strike a match
for the first time.
And then they understand, oh,you know, this is, this is
harmful, this is gonna hurt.
The proper ways to handle a gun,a knife, these kind of things.
Instead of insulating yourchildren and saying, the world

(51:43):
is a dangerous place.
Don't do anything, don't touchit.
Which doesn't teach themanything.
All it does is make themcurious.
and then they have no tools orscared.
Yeah.
Fearful or curious.
And then they have no tools todeal with it as they get older.
It's sort of like the abstinencething, you know?
Mm-hmm.
you're 17 years old and I knowthat you can't think of anything

(52:05):
but sex, but don't have it Allright.
It's like, well, Or we couldteach some responsible behavior
around it.

Tali (52:14):
I really hope that that has changed.
Yeah.
I think that not, I don'tnecessarily think it's like a
school's job to do that.
No.
At all.
Yeah.
I'm really hoping that parentsare having those conversations
with kids.
Yeah.
Mine didn't.
Yeah.
Everything I learned about sexwas like through friends or my
sister mm-hmm.
who was five years older than Iwas.

(52:35):
Yeah.
Or

Cody (52:36):
school.
I think that's pretty typical.
Yeah.
So, any other takeaways frombeing able to discern things?
We've come at this conversationa bit as coaches cuz that's who
we are.
But I've tried to.
Put myself in the studentposition.
Like how do you discern when tofollow somebody and when not,

(52:57):
obviously.
I mean, there's some things thatwe didn't bring up or maybe you
touched on for a moment as faras values.
You know, obviously if yourcoach, mentor teacher is asking
you to violate your own personalvalue system, that's obviously
a, a line that can be drawn asfar as when to follow them and

(53:18):
when not.
But when it comes to discerning,you know, if you're, if you're
paying somebody or you'reactively following somebody
because you trust their judgmentor want to learn from them, how
do you know that what you'relearning is the right thing or
the appropriate thing?
Yeah.

Tali (53:36):
I think another element would be if you're feeling
heard, seen and heard.
Mm.
If you have concerns and you'rebringing them up, obviously if
you have concerns, youabsolutely have to voice them.
Do not hold them, you know, toyourself and then just expect
people to know Yeah, there'ssome self, that's some things
going on with you.
Some

Cody (53:54):
ownership there.
There's some responsibility

Tali (53:56):
on this Absolutely.
Student's part.
Yeah.
To bring themself.
People can't know what theydon't know.
Absolutely.
So tell

Cody (53:59):
them.
Yeah.
I've had clients that were like,yeah, my shoulder's been hurting
for a month, so maybe Ishouldn't do this.
Why didn't you tell me that fivesessions ago?
Yeah.
Yeah,

Tali (54:09):
yeah, yeah.
I mean, that also goes hand inhand with asking the right
questions as a coach, butthinking about the student side
yeah.
I feel like if I am havingconcerns and bringing them up,
even if they can't solve them,if I feel blown off, yeah.
Then I have no reason to moveforward with you because we've
entered an agreement of somesort that.

(54:32):
needs to be honored.
Yeah.
It's a relationship.
It goes both ways.
So I would say that that'ssomething to think about too.

Cody (54:38):
Mm-hmm.
I think a very valuable conceptthat I feel we could all benefit
from in society as a whole isseparating ideas from
personalities.

Tali (54:50):
Okay.
You know, what do you mean bythat?

Cody (54:52):
Well, in one instance, you know, I've talked about, I've
mentioned before, that youshould never meet your heroes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because they're then you findout they're just real people who
are flawed, and then all of asudden that hero kind of like,
takes a dive in your mind.
But at the same time, it, it's avery valuable lesson to learn

(55:13):
that we're all human.
So you can actually find, forinstance historical quotes.
by famous politicians that arelike great quotes, but I'm like,
yeah, but, but he was apolitician, so you know that he
probably didn't write it.
probably 70% of the stuff hesaid was a fucking lie.
And like he probably or a speechwriter wrote it.

(55:34):
Yeah.
But yeah, my distrust of anybodywith a government position is
probably, you know, in a higherup position.
A government a politician, Ishould say, is not a source of
trust and it's a cliche, it'snot just my opinion.
This has been a cliche forhundreds of years that anybody
in politics is probably not verytrustworthy.

Tali (55:56):
No, Tucker said so too.
What was his first

Cody (55:59):
name?
Oh I forget.
Mm, I

Tali (56:03):
forget.
Rhymes with

Cody (56:04):
Justin.
I was thinking of here look thisup.
I was thinking of Roy Rogersand, okay.
It's like, I think he's the onethat said like, how do you know
when a politician's lying?
Well, his lips are moving, youknow it's a cliche, so I'm not
alone in this thought.
But that doesn't mean that somehistorical quote that has value

(56:28):
on it, it should be dismissedjust because it was said by some
politician you don't like.
I guess it, that's the point I'mtrying to get to is that you
have to discern wisdom and truthand valuable information apart
from the personality, the personwho said it.
Okay.
So ideas are more powerful in away than the person who came up

(56:48):
with the idea.
Sure.
And I think that keeping that inmind as you enter into a
relationship with a coach,teacher, mentor, is to separate
the information from the person.
because that helps to eliminatethe possibility, for instance of
like wild, wild country orwhatever, where you get into

(57:09):
some cult of somebody who'slike, well, they have lots of
good ideas.
And so then all of a sudden theideas turn into basically
worship of the guru.
And yes, that's when thingsstart to kind of go to shit is
when you just take everythingthat person said as being the

(57:29):
truth, the way the light.
Because

Tali (57:32):
separate from their actions.

Cody (57:34):
Yes.
Or even just because they have ahistory of saying things that
you agreed with initially andthen you go down this rabbit
hole of of giving up yourautonomy and your way of
thinking in lieu of justwhatever they tell you as being
the truth.
Mm-hmm.
So I think this can go bothways.
You.
Take wisdom from somebody thatyou may find reprehensible,

(57:57):
either on an ethics level ormaybe you don't find them
particularly intelligent orwhatever, but they said
something and it's valuable, andyou can take that piece of value
and you can separate it from theperson.
Likewise, you can take somebodythat you respect tremendously
and say, I, I still have to bediscerning about what they're

(58:17):
talking about.
Absolutely.
And I find myself in thisposition with certain authors
and public speakers that Iadmire, but it's like we, except
for that two or three thingsthat he keeps ranting on, I
don't agree with him on that.
You know, and that doesn't meanthat I have to say that I
dislike Jordan Peterson orsomething.
It's like, well, I disagree withthat, that that one thing he's

(58:39):
saying, that doesn't mean he'san a-hole.
You know, like, well, I thinkthat's why asserting your
autonomy as a client, a patient,whatever, is so important
because.
you're just kind of remindingthem like, yes, I am paying
attention.
Mm-hmm.
yes, I am going to bediscerning.
I'm not gonna just takeeverything that you throw at me
and you know, yeah.

(58:59):
Do exactly what you want withit.
Well, I think that's the bottomline takeaway that I would hope
from this whole conversationthat people could understand is
or is, is a skill, and it'ssomething to practice
constantly, is being discerningof the things that you learn.
Yes.
Regardless of the source.
Like the source doesn't evenmatter really.
and that's kind of somethingthat I, it's an easy trap to

(59:21):
fall into is you like somebodyso you all of a sudden you trust
them.
And this is why celebrities haveendorsements.
You know, they have celebrityendorsements because people
think that they know thecelebrity because they like
their personality duringinterviews and they love the
roles that they play ontelevision and whatnot.
So all of a sudden they'relistening to that person in with
like medical advice orsomething.

(59:42):
It's like, well, he plays adoctor on tv.
It doesn't mean he is one Not,not the same.
And so we've obviously, thisisn't something I'm just making
up ob, people fall into thistrap.
Oh yeah.
Hero worship or demonizationgoes both ways.
So and so is an asshole,therefore everything he says is
crap or so-and-so is a saint.

(01:00:03):
And therefore everything he saysis gospel.
And neither one of thosestatements are true.
We.
to remember that everything thatwe are willing to take in is our
responsibility for taking it in.

Tali (01:00:14):
Yes, I agree.
Yeah.
So I brought up what I wasreferring to before Preston
Tucker was the name that I wasthinking of.
The, the card designer.
Mm-hmm.
He had said something to his kidwho was played by Christian
Slater in the movie that we hadjust seen over the weekend.
Tucker, the man in his dream,and he said something like, all

(01:00:35):
I ask is that you don't become apolitician or a something.
What was it?
Lawyer or a lawyer?
or a lawyer and something.
And he's like, politicians tendto be both.
Yeah.
What was it?
I don't know why can't even, itwas a fast line.
Yeah.

Cody (01:00:52):
But he said it was funny though, I thought he wanted me
to be president and he was like,why would I want you to

Tali (01:00:56):
be president?
Oh, that's what it was.
Yeah.
He was like, they're usu they'repoliticians and, and lawyers.
Yeah.
I want you to be either one ofthem.
Yeah.
That's funny.
Great movie.
We'll link to that too.
Sure.
I enjoyed that.

Cody (01:01:07):
Yeah.
Feel like wrapping up?
Sure.
Feel like keeping going?
Nah, Okay.
I'm not even sure what to teasefor next week, but No it was
fun.
It was all right.
I love you.
I love you too.
See you in a week.
See you in a week.

Tali (01:01:28):
This episode was produced by Tali Zabari and Cody
Limbaugh.
Check out our writing, coachingservices and home studying
adventures at live all yourlife.com.
For show notes, resourcesmentioned, or to submit a
question or contribution, clickon the podcast tab.