039 How Your Perceptions Can Sabotage Or Bolster Your Progress: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 29

What we're thinking or feeling at any given moment is often dramatically different from our external reality. Aligning your internal dialogue to be closer to the objective truth can be a valuable skill for progress, happiness, contentment, and confidence. Tali and Cody offer up some ideas on how we might develop a healthier outlook. 

08:20 Pat Flynn "Hard to read the label when you're inside the bottle"

11:55 Expectations vs Results

18:45 Advice for injuries

25:51 Power Posing

28:45 5-Minute Morning Mindset Boost, watch here!

29:00  The Huberman Lab Podcast

31:49 Differences between how you're feeling and how other's perceive you 

34:43 An opportunity for us to develop more compassion

36:19 Self-criticism isn't something to eliminate

44:01 Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown

45:40 HowToFitTogether.com

46:39 Mentorship: reconciling our internal state and our external reality

47:59 It's a massive mistake to assume that everybody else is experiencing things in the same way you are

50:22 Assessment: 023 The Magic Of Metrics! The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep.13

54:11 Learn more about Objectivism

01:02:01 Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear

01:02:53 Take the drudgery out of your self-discipline 027 Make Self-Discipline Easier With This One Practice: The Philosophy Of Fitness #17

Couples - Proven Fitness & Intimacy Practices To Achieve Your Health and Relationship Goals Together!
To learn more or book a brainstorming call, visit HowToFitTogether.com

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Episode Transcript

Cody (00:16):
Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh.
And I'm

Tali (00:18):
Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of
Fitness podcast on the Live

Cody (00:23):
All Your Life Network.

Tali (00:43):
I had an icebreaker in mind and I'm completely
forgetting what it was.
sorry.
Oh.
I remember what it is.
Who is your favorite performeror what's the best performance
you've ever seen?
Or maybe not shit.
Sorry.
Not favorite or best, but whatis a notable performer
experience that you had?

Cody (01:03):
Greta Van Fleet at the Schnitz.
That was pretty great.
That was fucking amazing.
That was like mind blowing.

Tali (01:11):
Whoa.
I remember we walked in and Ithink we were late to the
opener, which was a bummer cuzit was Dorothy.
Mm.
No last name.
And her music is like reallyhardcore.
I just remember being so steep.
Yeah.
Remember we were walking in andwe were like looking down at the

Cody (01:26):
stage.
Yeah.
That theater's cool cuz everyonehas a good, good seat.
Like you can see.
Are you sure it was the

Tali (01:30):
Schnitz?
Yeah.
Because I'm thinking it mightnot be, but I, we were up in
balcony.
Mm-hmm.
and I guess the only other timeI went to the Schnitz was I was
sitting down on the main leveland it was a really different
experience.
So I

Cody (01:44):
don't remember.
Yeah, there's a balcony aboveus.
That's why I remember cuz whenwe.
Our feet got tired and we walkedback.
Yeah.
And there was just like regularchairs for some reason.
Mm-hmm.
and there was a ceiling, reallylow ceiling over us.
It's cuz there's a balcony overus too.
Oh.
So I'm

Tali (01:58):
pretty sure.
So a few tears maybe.
Yeah.

Cody (02:00):
But yeah.
Great Show Greta Van Fleet Man,if you are into rock and roll,
you should check'em out.
But for sure live performance.
I mean, it was unreal.
Dudes got pipes.
Oh yeah.
And every song sounded like thefinale.
Like every song was like this 12minute like scorcher of just
like epic playing.

(02:21):
It was really cool.

Tali (02:21):
Yeah.
And it's, I always say thatpeople sound better live than
they do on record and hopefullyyeah.
That is the hope.
But this was like to such adegree that I wasn't prepared
for because they sound amazing.
recorded.
And this was like, I tell peoplethat that show like melted my
face.
Yeah.
Like it was so powerful.

(02:42):
Mm-hmm.
and I just felt, you know, thatI don't know if it's a music
video or a picture of like theguy who's leaning back cuz the
speaker's like blowing his

Cody (02:52):
hair.
Yeah.
That's an old Memorexcommercial.
Sure.

Tali (02:56):
Whatever that is.
Cassette tapes.
Oh, okay.
Well it reminded me of that.
I just felt like I was beinglike, assaulted in the face in
the very best way.
Oh yeah.

Cody (03:06):
That was amazing.
Okay, so how about you?

Tali (03:08):
Oh man.
Well that's really hard tochoose.
I feel like there are so many.
Oh,

Cody (03:17):
I have many.
I could list a bunch, but that,that one really came to mind
quick because you and I went tothat show together and I think
you and I have been to more thana handful of shows together now.
Yeah.
And some really amazing ones.
Jack White and

Tali (03:30):
that was insane.
We just went to Pretty Recklessand that was such a fun show.
That was really fun.

Cody (03:36):
Yeah.
We've seen some really, reallygreat artists, but Greta Van
Fleet, like was just so far andabove all of them.
Yeah, I would say that, thatjust, they like,

Tali (03:44):
yeah, that might, that might be really high up there.

Cody (03:48):
It's hard to, was a close second though, cuz we saw them
pretty close together.
I think we saw him a few monthsapart.
Yeah.
And

Tali (03:53):
we got pretty close to the stage for Jack White, which was
really cool.

Cody (03:57):
And when he, when that version of Seven Nation Army
that they did live was likechilling, like it just like, oh
yeah, you could really feel it.
It was amazing.
The whole crowd was in it and itwas like slow and funky and
dirty and really great.

Tali (04:14):
I actually do have like a top performance that I've seen
and I think it's kind of anunexpected choice.
what you gonna say?
Dixie Chicks.
I am gonna say Dixie ChicksThat's so funny that you knew.
They are known actually as theChicks now.
No more Dixie.

(04:35):
But I took my mom to see them inconcert for Mother's Day.
And it's kind of a funny storybecause I bought the tickets.
It was at this amphitheater, Ithink in Washington.
And the weather looked kind ofiffy, so.
even though I had bought thetickets as a gift to my mom, she
bought better tickets and endedup taking me.

(04:57):
So that's funny.
Yeah, it was, it was kind of a,a silly situation, but, you
know, bless her.
She's so sweet.
And you know, I grew uplistening to their first album
with my mom, like on repeat inthe car.
It's very much the soundtrack tomy childhood, but I guess one of
the reasons that it felt so epicis, you know, they're a really

(05:19):
well established band.
They've been touring a longtime, and they also probably
have a lot of money to put intothese tours.
Mm-hmm.
and it really shows in terms oflike the lights and the sound
and the stuff, like all thatextra stuff.
It really felt like anexperience.

(05:39):
Mm-hmm.
and not every show needs that tobe really special, but in terms
of like, something like blowingmy mind mm-hmm.
that.
Felt kind of like it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was a major show.
It was so great.
Well, if

Cody (05:51):
we're going down Country Lane, I have to also give an
honorable mention to GarthBrooks, because you saw him in
concert.
I saw him in concert when he wasstill kind of like in the high
point in his career.
Okay.
And maybe like after the peak alittle bit, he was still kind of
out there in the, in the world.
And it was like, ha.
It was like so intenselyenergetic and parts of it were

(06:13):
like a magic show.
So like at this one point,there's this video that he does
called The Red Strokes, wherehe's like in this white, white
suit with a white hat and awhite piano and everything's
white, white, white.
And then there's like paintbeing like slung around.
Oh wait, did that on stage?
Well, no.
He came up in a white outfitplaying the piano just like he
is in the, in the video.
Music, music, music video.

(06:34):
Yeah.
He come up out of the stage likethis and he's playing and
playing and playing.
And then you hear singing.
And then the piano like opens upand like a black suited version
of him comes up.
And it turns out somebody elsewas playing the piano that
looked like him.
Oh shit.
And he thought it was him.
But then he comes up and he'slike, all in black and he's like

(06:54):
black Garth Brooks with a blackhat and everything and jumps off
and there's like wires, likeacrobatic shit.
Like it was like insane.
Yeah.
And this, the dude was like, hewas probably 50 at the time.
Cool.
And still just putting a hundredpercent out there in his shows.
That was pretty cool.
So that's a icebreaker.

(07:15):
We are seven minutes in.
Should we move on?
I just

Tali (07:18):
have one more honorable mention, and I don't want this
to, I didn't necessarily wantthis just to be limited to
concerts because I love allkinds of things on stage.

Cody (07:30):
You've seen a lot more theater than I have.

Tali (07:32):
I have.
And I really loved Wicked.
I went to go see it with myfriend Ty.
She originally wanted to takeher boyfriend at the time, and I
was like, come on.
Like, don't, don't waste aticket on somebody who like,
doesn't care as much about thetheater as I do.
And yeah, I cried several times.

(07:52):
I also cried several times atDixie Chicks, and I think that
that's another reason that itstuck out to me is that there
was like all this extra stuff toit, but it was also an
incredibly emotional experience.
Yeah, I cried a whole lot.
I feel like if I've cried atsomething like that's how, you
know, it was a good time.

Cody (08:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That sounds like more of yourassociation with those things
than it is their

Tali (08:12):
performance, though.
The performance was so good.
Okay.
Don't even, I'll believe you.
All right.
Onto today's topic.

Cody (08:20):
Yeah.
So what is today's topic?
Oh, well, it's kind of thedifference between, so we're
doing another episode of thePhilosophy of Fitness.
So taking from the world offitness into the real world, or
I should say the rest of theworld

Tali (08:33):
the difference.
You always make thatdistinction.
I've heard it several times.
I hate it when I say

Cody (08:37):
real world cuz it's like fitness

Tali (08:38):
is everything's real world.
The real world.
Yeah.

Cody (08:40):
But yeah, so the idea of when you're doing a movement and
maybe it looks good to yourcoach, but it feels wrong if
something feels bad.
And there's a flip side to thattoo.
Sometimes people can do movementthat they.
Feels good.
And it's like, no, no, no, no.
You need to stop what you'redoing.
So there's this kind of conceptthat Pat Flynn likes to say that

(09:03):
it's difficult to read the labelwhen you're inside the bottle.
So I think today we're justgonna play around with this idea
of the differences between whenyou're maybe performing well,
but it doesn't feel like it, ormaybe you feel like you're on
and you're not.
And this mismatch between ourproprioception, word of the day
folks, geez,

Tali (09:22):
Louise.
Perform deception.
Yeah.
What it feels like versus whatit looks like.
Mm-hmm.
And you had talked about, youknow, maybe an athlete and coach
and what that perception mightbe from one side to the next.
I was thinking about it whenwe're videoing lifts.
You know, as, say again?
Yeah.
As remote coaches, we're gettinga lot of video analysis

(09:43):
opportunities and, you know, Itry to post things online from
time to time when we're liftingand, you know, I do trust your
eyes, but I also want to be ableto look at that stuff myself as
well, see if I still get it.
And so there are a lot of timeswhere a lift feels like dog
shit.
And then I look at the video andI'm like, oh, that looks pretty

(10:06):
great.
And it's always been a littlebit mystifying to me, like how
that could be the case.
And my first thought was alwayslike, oh, thank God.
Like, I'm glad the struggle orthe, you know, the breakdown
wasn't evident mm-hmm.
In watching it, but it stillgoes to show that, you know,
there's some work to do there.

Cody (10:27):
Yeah.
Well, and sometimes your body istelling, talking to you in ways
that don't make themselvesevident visually, or maybe it's
too, too subtle.

Tali (10:35):
Yeah.
It doesn't feel subtle though,like Yeah.
You know, when you see.
like receiving a clean orsomething and your body isn't
coming up as like one singleunit, like your hips and chest.
There's like kind of a breakdownbetween the two.
I always feel that happeningwhen weights are really, really
heavy and it feels really severeand I'm like, oh fuck, I don't

(10:57):
wanna post that.
That's gonna look like crap.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't wanna like spreadthat around or make people think
that that's like okay orsomething to aim for or anything
like that.
But then I watched the video andyou can't even see it.
Mm-hmm.
which is cool, but I think it'sweird.
I think it's super, superstrange.

Cody (11:12):
Yeah.
Well I was immediately relatingthis to aspects of outside the
gym life with, so did I prettyquickly regards?
Yeah.
With regards to our currentstate of business and my work
weeks and that kind of thing.
I've had a lot of distractionslately, so maybe it's not a good

(11:33):
example.
Recently but sometimes You know,we can get this critical voice
that we're not doing enough,we're not doing enough, we're
not doing enough.
And sometimes, you know, youwill come home from work or at
the end of the week or somethingand you'll give me a pat on the
back about how much I've done inthe week.

(11:55):
And I'm like, I didn't feel likeI got Jack's shit done.
Like I feel like spinning mywheels a lot.
But that's because there's a gapbetween my expectations for
myself and Sure what I actuallyproduce.
And there will always be a gapbetween my expectations and what
I produce in a way, because it'seasy to imagine perfection.

(12:17):
It's easy to imagine thingsgetting done versus actually
doing the work, which takes timeand energy.
You know, emotional involvementand all these kind of things
that can be a little off andthat's never consistent.
And we're human, and so we'renever operating like machines.
But it's easy to imagine, youknow, what a perfect productive
day

Tali (12:36):
would look like.
Uh, Aka this whole weekend,Yeah.
I feel like this weekend did notgo to plant at all.

Cody (12:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think sometimes it'sevident, you know, like, you
know, you I'm sure have noticedsince I've had some dental
issues lately, and it's beenvery painful and distracting and
tiring because I actually had aninfection, so it made my whole
body tired.
And it was not just like acouple days, it's been like when
you had like

Tali (13:00):
three weeks Yeah.
Like appointment afterappointment and you'd kinda like
restart that whole cycle overagain each time.

Cody (13:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm sure that recently you'vebeen able to see like a, a slip
in production as far as thestuff I'm getting done mm-hmm.
But before that it was a littlebit more like the clean that you
were talking about where like, Ifelt like it was, I wasn't.
I still wasn't really on, butyou were like, you're getting so
much done.
I'm so proud of you.
Thank you for all you're doing.

(13:26):
And I'm like, eh, what so well

Tali (13:28):
you would tell you didn't look that good to me.
You would tell me like thingsthat you got done and you know,
I don't, not being the personwho's doing the work, I can't
really accurately assess likehow much energy that's taking
you, how long it takes to dothose things.
Mm-hmm.
and I'm also your partner andI'm also a coach.
And so I know that it'simportant to give positive

(13:50):
feedback regardless.
too.
You know, you're just blowingsmoke.
No, what I'm saying is like Iknow that it's important for you
to be productive and I want thatfor myself too.
And I know.
congratulating yourself for whatyou did do is such an important
step.
We talk about that with ourclients all the time, that you

(14:11):
have to celebrate every stinkingwin.
And I told that to one of ourclients this week who was
horrendously sick, felt like,you know, they couldn't track
their food, they didn't gettheir workouts in, but they
tracked the couple of walks thatthey took themselves on.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, fuck.
Yeah.
Like, thank you for sharingthat.
Yeah.
That's really important.
That shows me that you are inthis, that you're engaged,

(14:32):
you're still, your intention wasthere.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That stuff is major, and I feelthe same way.
And it's not blowing smokebecause I don't think that
that's, I don't find it silly.
I don't find it minuscule oranything like that.
Mm-hmm.
like those things are wins.
Life gets really busy.
It gets really challenging attimes.

(14:54):
you know, just to give anexample maybe in more real time,
I hurt my back this week and Idon't know if it was just like
one thing in particular or acouple of things, but to the
point where like, getting offthe couch was audibly painful.
And today, you know, we did areally hard workout yesterday

(15:17):
that probably made it worse.
It was like a million reps.

Cody (15:20):
I haven't misjudged a workout that badly for I would
say 15 years.

Tali (15:26):
I knew, I knew we were doing it wrong as we were
writing it, cuz essentially whatwe did is.
So we're following CrossFit mainsite, and included in that are
the workouts for the open.
And we don't necessarily haveall the equipment space, yada,
yada, to do those workoutsthat's prescribed.
So we made slight adjustmentsand we had a friend over, so we

(15:47):
made it a team workout.
And what that resulted in was aworkout inspired by the original
with like 5 million more fuckingreps.
Mm-hmm.
and like 60 burpees a piece canreally fry ones back.
Mm-hmm.
But I didn't actually feel itthroughout the workout at all.
But the day after I felt really,really wrecked.

(16:08):
And the whole afternoon, I guessafter that workout too.
And you and I went down to thegym today, you did the main site
workout and I just did rehab.
Rehab movements.
Yeah.
Like box step ups and mm-hmm.
various stretches that I alreadyknow or that my previous
chiropractor had taught me.
And, you know, recruiting foamrollers and lacrosse balls and

(16:30):
all the things.
And I am stoked to have gottendown to the gym.
Like, to me that feels likealmost as valuable as yesterday
or another day where I likereally hit it hard.
Oh yeah.
It was what I was capable ofdoing today.
I still did it.

Cody (16:45):
You did all the right things.
I mean, so many people, andmyself included, like I know
better and I still have atendency to, if, if you're
hurting, especially a backsituation back or neck, those
two things, it's just like, man,you just don't wanna move at
all.
Yeah.
And that's, that's what youshould not do.
I mean, you have to move, youhave to, movement is healing
movement is magic as GregGlassman would say, but that's,

(17:07):
I agree.
It

Tali (17:09):
it goes against everything you want to do.

Cody (17:11):
Yeah.
And I can't be overstated.
So you, I was really proud ofyou for getting down there and
doing that.

Tali (17:16):
Well, I actually had to set the record straight earlier
too.
I was on a phone call with myfamily and someone had said, you
know, when I hurt my back, like,I know my job is to just like
stay as still as possible andlike lay really flat and like,
that's gonna be my day.
And I was like, actually, I havea really different way of going
about these things.
I need to push through thosepoints where I'm like babying

(17:39):
myself mm-hmm.
so that I can teach my brainthat this is not unsafe, that I
can push through full range ofmotion.
Mm-hmm.
you know, I might just have tobreathe through it differently.
Yeah.
Or move a little bit moreslowly, but a lot of times, The
injuries that we have are notnecessarily what create bad
movement in the future.
It's our hesitation to workthrough them adequately and all

(18:04):
the babying or like being tooafraid to like, you know, reach
your arm up or whatever it is.
Mm-hmm.
that hesitation is limiting tothe movement pattern.
And you can get stuck there.
Yeah.
You really can.
Yeah.
So it was really important forme to do all the twisting today,
all the updos down dogs.
Like, that's kind of the strangething about this back strain is

(18:26):
like, I can do everything.
But standing up is really hard.
Yeah.
And painful.

Cody (18:31):
Yeah.
Gonna, I'm gonna go on a tangenta little bit.
I'm ready because I think it'svaluable for listeners.

Tali (18:37):
I'm so sorry.
I have so much like cat hair allover my face.
Yeah.
I can't stop.

Cody (18:41):
Well you put your face in the cat.
I love them.

Tali (18:44):
I love them.

Cody (18:45):
So this is a little bit of fitness education.
For those of you listeningthat's a little bit apart from
the philosophy of fitness.
This is just actual usableadvice.
And when you, when you getinjured, there's several things
that can really turn an acuteinjury into a chronic problem.
And the reason we're talkingabout movement so much and
getting moving as soon aspossible is that you, there's

(19:08):
lots of different systems atplay, and I think they're all
the same thing.
I mean, it's kind of like thiseastern philosophy versus
western philosophy thing where alot of modern medical science
wants to partition the body.
There's, there's the muscles andthere's the fascia, and there's
the nervous system, and there'sthis and that.
It's like, well, they all,they're all one system.
Like they all work together.

(19:29):
And so I, I see these thingsparalleling when injury occurs.
And if you don't move, youincrease the thickness of the
fascia around the injured area.
Anytime you're not moving anypart of your body, you increase
the fascia because fascia, whichis if you've ever eaten a steak,
just to really quickly describewhat fascia is, it's kind of

(19:51):
that webby stuff that's in andaround the muscle, and it goes
all the way through your wholebody, and it's all connected
through your whole body.
There's it's very new science, Imean new as in the last 20 years
or so to even consider fascia asan organ of the body, right?
Like it was just sort ofoverlooked for centuries.
Anatomy.
It's kind of odd, but they'rerealizing that there's, it, it

(20:15):
actually carries some veryimportant functions, but one of
those functions is that it canactually turn into a cast inside
your body.

Tali (20:21):
It's tough as shit.
And I can attest to that becausewe butcher our elk and our deer.
Yeah.
And cutting through some of thatis shocking.
Yeah.
I was really enlightened throughthat experience.
It'll

Cody (20:35):
be, it'll dull your knife.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so if you being hydrated issuper helpful.
Yeah.
Hydration and movement.
But movement is like the keybecause I think it's, we've
taken for granted that, youknow, as you age, you lose range
of motion in your arm forreaching overhead.
It's not as you age, it's as youstop using that movement.
Yeah.
And so use it or lose it, yourbody's gonna try to like

(20:59):
protect.
Range of motion by growing thatthick fasc all around it.
So there's kind of aphysiological problem.
There's also a neurologicalproblem mm-hmm.
Whereas if you, that's what Iwas talking about, right?
If you treat, if you take smallsteps and you're not reaching
very far and you're, you're,you're protecting your body by
how these small movements areworse yet no movement by just

(21:21):
laying your body your mind bodyconnection, if you want to call
it that.
Your nervous system actuallystarts to learn where these
range of motions should be asfar as staying safe, and I put
should be in quotes because it'swhat you're teaching your brain.
We should take smaller steps andthat is, again, it's a death now

(21:43):
because you're gonna lose rangeof motion because your brain
won't let you sometimes we dothese types of stretches where
we'll kind of go to end range,which is kind of where it start
to feel like a stretch.
We'll hold that for a littlewhile and then contract those
same muscles.
For eight, 10 seconds or so andthen release, and then all of a
sudden you gain two inches ofrange of motion on that joint.

(22:07):
You didn't change anythingphysically.
What you did is you taught yourbrain.
It's like, wait a minute.
We're we're able to contract atthis, what we're, what we're
feeling as the end range.
And if that's the case, it's notreally the end range.
Like you still have control overmuscle movement at that age.
So it's not the quote unquoteend range physiologically.

(22:27):
And then you can train yourbrain to add a couple inches.
Add a couple inches, and I cando that.
I can demonstrate that withsomebody in three minutes.
Yeah, like it's noticeabledifference.
But if you spend too much timethere, you train your brain in
that bad pattern.
Earlier in the podcast, I usedthe word proprioception, so I
just wanna uhhuh define it realquick.
Thanks.

(22:48):
Proprioception is thecommunication between your
movement and your brain.
Mm-hmm.
and

Tali (22:54):
proprie Proprietor section.
Proprioception.

Cody (22:57):
Proprioception.
Yeah.
I'll spell it in the descriptionof the poly moly episode.
So read through that.
And basically the easy way tothink about this is if you hold
your hand behind your back andwiggle your fingers, you know
what your fingers are doing.
Like I know.
First finger, middle finger,ring, finger, pinky.
Right?
Okay.
I don't have to look at them toknow that that's what's

(23:18):
happening.
Okay.
So if you have to look at it toknow what's happening, that's a
lack of proprioception.
Proprioception is your brainknowing where your body is in
space and how it's moving.
And that relates a little bit towhat we're talking about in
today's podcast, which issometimes a disconnect between
how things look and how theyfeel.

(23:38):
And in the.
physical in the physiologicalworld.
Biology, that's proprioception.
So I'll get off this tangent ina second, but if when you're
injured and you train your brainto shorten range of motion, you
can also lose proprioception,which means if you're babying a
knee or a back or a shoulder orsomething, by practicing very

(24:01):
small movements over time, whenyou step out of that range of
motion, your brain doesn'trecognize it and you are, you're
also losing your balance andagility.
That makes sense.
Reaction times, like all thatstuff.
And so there's so much at playmoved.
You gotta move.
People just keep moving.
just keep moving within safety,of course, but.

(24:27):
I had injured my shoulder a fewyears ago, and it's still, every
once in a while an apparenthitch that happens where that,
that shoulder, I would say islike 95%.
I hardly ever bothers me everanymore.
But if I'm doing a very rapidoverhead movement, like a, a
jerk, a tipping pullup or ajerk, like it can be in either
direction up or pulling.

(24:47):
If it's really fast, it's likemy brain's like, wait, okay.
And then, and it's so,

Tali (24:52):
and then it's a press out

Cody (24:53):
Yeah.
And it's a press out.
And it's so frustrating becauseI, I can focus on it all I want
as far as like punch, you know,and be, be snappy and get that
movement.
And I'm telling my body to dothe right thing.
And there's like a subconscious,there's a subconscious pause
there to try to protect thatshoulder, which is no longer
injured.
I've seen you

Tali (25:13):
push through it though.
Yeah.
Like, just that last time we didjerks, I had mentioned that to
you and you're able to correctit.
Mm-hmm.
but maybe by default you'restill protecting it.

Cody (25:23):
Yeah.
So end of tangent, but I thinkis valuable information for
anybody, because even if you'renot a fitness type person or
working out consistently orwhatever, just remember that a
lot of the things we associatewith old age or an injury that
turns into a chronic issue,

Tali (25:39):
they're not like death sentences.
They're not, it's notinevitable.
No, it's not.

Cody (25:42):
Doesn't have to be range of motion and healing can
happen, but you have to move.
That's the thing is you can'tjust give in to it.
Yeah.
So end of rant.

Tali (25:51):
Well, it doesn't have to be end of rant because I
actually have somethinganecdotal to that neurological
element that you were talkingabout, and this is, you know,
outside of the gym experiencewhere I know I brought this up
in another podcast episode, butI had the really cool
opportunity of doing some nudemodeling for a figure class
figure drawing class, and I.

(26:14):
Had always wanted to do this,but you never know that.
Like what's gonna happen whenyou're in a room full of people
and you have to get naked.
Mm-hmm.
I would have this kind of worryevery now and then.
Like what if I freeze?
Like what if I just decide inthe moment like, nope, nope.
Can't do it.
Sorry, You never know.
You never know when like youradrenaline's really high and
what's gonna happen.

(26:34):
So I learned this technique frommy mom.
I'm sure you know about it, butpower posing.
Do you know about that?
power posing power posing?
I don't know.
Yes.
I don't exactly know if that'sthe right terminology cuz I
haven't thought about it in along time, but I actually
recruited it.
And it's a technique thatanytime you're going into maybe
a challenging or tense or anykind of situation where you

(26:58):
wanna feel like really withinyour power and you don't wanna
like be small or fold orwhatever it is you my chest, you
actually take time to.
Pose in ways that are powerful.
So like, you know, big sizes andranges of motion and like, yeah,

(27:19):
like big chest, lots of power.
I don't have a lot to draw upon,but I remember sitting in the
car in the driver's seat andlike trying to get as big as I
could in the car.
That's awesome.
So that I would walk in feelingreally confident.
Mm-hmm.
And that also played out in themodeling itself because I think
it's easy to, you know, you'rekind of responsible for the

(27:43):
poses and they want them to bereally dynamic.
And this was a new experiencefor me, so I just had to kind of
make shit up.
You know, I did as much researchas I could to get inspiration,
but I also wanted to do my verybest job.
And so I really wanted to havebig grand, really fun poses for
them to draw.

(28:05):
And you know, I had to.
Practice them to do it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Because I think it's easy whenyou're in that room to just kind
of wanna shrink and like keepthe movements small.
And it's very different thanposing in photography, for
instance.
Like you have to move in smalleradjustments as opposed to the
drawing where it should be atotally different pose than what

(28:26):
they did two minutes ago.
Yeah.
So I think that it seemed justkind of related in the moment to
use that in moments of fear oryou know, in, in unknown
situations.
Mm-hmm.
it almost seemed like a similarpractice.

Cody (28:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's a five minute morningmindset routine that we have put
on our YouTube channel, and it'sa little bit of stretching, a
little bit of pushups andsquats, and it's meant to be
done like.
To wake you up in the morning.
So as soon as possible after youwake up, ideally, if you can do

(29:05):
this outside, because naturallight is, I'll just refer you to
the Huberman podcast and you canlisten to that rant.
It's it's long.
But getting morning light isextremely beneficial for your
hormones and getting a goodnight's sleep the next night.
And a whole bunch of that's justa long list.
So but at the end of this fiveminute morning routine, I say,

(29:26):
or you say to lift your chin tora.
You know, look up and smile.
And smile, And thank yourselffor doing this five minutes in
the morning of intentionalmovement and.
it feels corny as shit.
I'm not gonna lie.
It feels, it feels corny to sayit it feels super corny.
But it's the same thing thatyour mom was talking about with

(29:47):
the power poses is that there's,there's actually some pretty
definitive research that ouremotions follow actions as much
as our actions follow emotions.
Oh, yes.
And the act of raising your chinand smiling literally is like a
dopamine release where it helpsyou feel better.

(30:07):
And it may be very subtle, butit's, it's, it's real.

Tali (30:13):
Well, I know we've talked about this before when it comes
to a weightlifting meat, so ifyou've never seen a
weightlifting meat, the way itworks is that there is a single
platform in front of theaudience and there's one barbell
and everyone is gonna use thesame barbell.
And it's just one lifter afterthe next, like a minute to two
minutes between each one ofthem.
And the weight just gets heavierand heavier.

(30:34):
And, it's wild as a spectator towatch it and notice the
difference in demeanor from onelifter to the next.
And I wouldn't say that this islike any hard science or
anything, but you can reallytell by the way someone's gonna,
the way that they're walking outon the platform, their posture,

(30:55):
their I don't know what else todraw upon the expression on
their face, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
that is tied to how the, thelift is gonna be executed.
And I took that really seriouslyand not only came up with kind
of a, like a ritual or routinein the way that I approached the
bar.

(31:16):
but I felt like that was gonnahave a direct outcome in how I
was gonna lift.
So I really took that element ofit really seriously.
So I would smile, you know, Iwould, you know, try to be calm
and upright and poised mm-hmm.
And you know, when you seesomebody like rushing to the bar
or their head is down, you'relike, oh, fuck Like, what are we

(31:36):
about to see?
And I think I think there's alot about how your intentions or
your preparation is going toplay out in whatever you're
attempting.
And yeah.
I'm not sure how we got ontothat, but, oh.
I guess it's a kind of aninteresting segue to one of the

(31:56):
points that I wrote down here.
You know, what things feel likeand what it looks like.
And I was thinking about this interms of self-consciousness, an
area that I would say I'm anexpert in and a lot of.
Times, you know, as a youngperson, I remember being told by
teachers or camp counselors, ormy mom or whoever it was who was

(32:17):
trying to like, push me intowhatever I was resisting.
You know, they'd say like, noone's gonna know like, that
you're feeling this way.
Like, what you're feeling is notnecessarily evident to everybody
else, or they're not gonna care,I think is what the word is.
It's like everybody's dealingwith their own shit.
Like nobody cares about youranxiety.

(32:38):
Mm-hmm.
And it's not meant to be in likea, it's an insignificance by any
means.
But I think that that issomething that people experience
a lot where their internal worldfeels so difficult.
Turbulent or whatever to wherethey think that it's like
written all over their face to apoint where they feel like they
can't function well.

(32:59):
The, because they're afraidpeople are gonna see it.

Cody (33:01):
Yeah.
We're afraid of everyone judgingus all the time and usually
they're not even thinking aboutus.
I think a great example is ourdrawing class again.
Oh, yeah.
Because it, yeah.
I mean, it's hard to imagine acircumstance where you're not
getting judged or criticizedmore than being in a circle of
people staring at you, drawingyou, and you're naked in front

(33:23):
of a group of people.

Tali (33:25):
Right.
And not just drawing.
There was a point in that class,I think I told you, where I was
just standing there naked andthe teacher is like pointing to
all these different things on mybody and like talking about my
body parts.
Yeah.
Which you would think someonewho has had so much like
challenge with their body image,like that would be a fucking
nightmare.
Yeah.
But it wasn't, but context waseverything.

(33:47):
Yeah.

Cody (33:47):
Context is, but.
Yeah, I think it's a greatexample of what you were just
talking about though, is thatwhen you're in the hot seat,
when you're naked up there, youare obviously thinking, oh man,
are people judging me?
Like that's gonna come acrossyour mind.
But you and I also took theclass and we were drawing
mm-hmm.
And you remember like, here weare looking at a naked woman in

(34:09):
front of us.
And you and I were worried aboutwhat the fuck we were drawing.
Like,

Tali (34:13):
oh yeah, we were way more worried about us.

Cody (34:15):
Yeah, So it just kinda, it's true.
It like really shines a light onthat per point is like, you
can't imagine a circumstancewhere people might feel more
judged than getting naked infront of somebody else.
And even in that circumstance,all the artists are thinking
about how shitty their drawingis, or how bad their perspective
is, and where's that shadowUhhuh So even in that

(34:36):
circumstance, we're all justsort of like internally criti
critical.
We're not judging the otherperson nearly as much as you
think.
Yeah.

Tali (34:43):
Yeah.
That's a really good example,because it's so true.
I did wanna mention the flipside to that though, where it's
maybe an opportunity to extendmore compassion towards people
because a lot of times we don'tknow people's internal worlds
and you know, I think this iseasy to think about when you see

(35:04):
especially bad behavior.
You know, that kind of stuffcomes out from hurt or anger or
sadness or that kind of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think it is a goodreminder that just because
you're not seeing someone'sanxieties or challenges doesn't
mean they're not there.
And so it is an opportunity tobe more compassionate in general

(35:29):
to people.
Yeah.

Cody (35:30):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So I guess this is a good segueto one of my notes, which is
that self-criticism.
I think we have a strangeculture right now of division in
almost everything.
Mm-hmm.
everything's politicized in inthe US right now.

(35:50):
It's kind of a madness.
It's a mad world.
Mad, mad world That wasterrible.

Tali (35:58):
we were both there though.
All those matters.
The you just did it.
You just did what you were justtalking about.
What Self critic you were justlike giving yourself

Cody (36:09):
crap.
No, I think our harmony wasterrible.
I think.
Oh, that's an objective fact.
That was terrible.

Tali (36:14):
okay.
No.
Okay.

Cody (36:16):
So what I'm saying though is that that inner.
I think sometimes in somecircles there's the, you know,
Jocko Willin or I forget theother guy's name, but there's,
there's a few people out thereright now that are just about,
like, their whole message is yougotta be disciplined, you know,
you've gotta work on thisdisciplined muscle.

(36:37):
Because the more you practiceself-discipline, the more
self-discipline you can be in.
You know, it's like, it's reallyaggressive.
And then there's the flip sideto that, which is like, everyone
should be made to feel good allthe time, and except

Tali (36:52):
one is in favor of comfort and the other is discomfort.
Yeah.

Cody (36:55):
But it's so extreme.
It's like this divisive thingwhere there's like pushback
against the all acceptance crowdby way overdoing it as far as
like every minute of your dayshould be disciplined.
You know, you should wake up atfour 30 and you should, you
know, and hit that list and allthat.
And.
And I think that we can take amore rational look at our inner

(37:17):
critic and realize that thattendency to be self-conscious or
self-critical is very valuable.
It's a very valuable voice.
And I think sometimes we areconstantly just trying to shut
it down cuz it doesn't feelgood.
But, you know, speaking from myown experience, like I, I can

(37:38):
look at a day and sometimes Ioverdo it.
It's like, man, I didn't getshit done.
It's like, well, yeah, but I didedit the podcast, which is a
three hour job just to do thatone thing.
And so it feels like scratchingthat one thing off the list is
insignificant, but it's like, Igotta give myself credit from
doing that, that three hour hellyeah.
Slog of like, of work.
And it's tedious

Tali (37:57):
work.
It's not nearly as fun asrecording.
Yeah.

Cody (38:00):
It's, it's not, I love listening to us, but it's.
Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot ofdetails.
I hope you guys are reading theshow notes, because I worked my
ass off on those.
But I guess my point though isthat it allows self-reflection
reflection for improvement.
Like, how would we ever improveif we never, if we didn't ever
practice that self-criticalvoice or if we're always

(38:22):
shutting it down and being like,I'm, I am enough.
I deserve all the best things.
You know, this kind of likelight and fluffy self-acceptance
thing that's being pushed tothe, to extremes.
Again, I'm talking aboutextremes.
So some self-discipline, quotequotes or some ability to get

(38:42):
yourself moving is really,really valuable.
I don't want to be a hustleculture obsessive compulsive.
getting up at four 30 when Idon't need to type of person.
I don't want, I don't wanna livemy life like that.
But I also think that the, butdemonizing that critic or

Tali (38:58):
self-deprecating all

Cody (38:59):
the time.
Oh yeah, yeah.
But demonizing that innercritic, I think is also
dangerous because if, if thatself-critic thing is just a
voice that's put on us becauseof societal expectations or you
know, whatever it's preached atbeing, I think we are losing a
valuable part of ourselves thatcan actually help us improve
over time.

Tali (39:18):
Well, I think it's really important to ask where that
voice is coming from.
You know, we don't wanna takeeveryone's advice and what it's
saying.
Sure.
You know, but you know, it isimportant to note if that is
something that society is, youknow, putting on your back, or
if it's, you know, somethingthat your parents said to you,
or if it's something that comesfrom within.

(39:39):
You know, I think that that isreally important to assess in
those situations.
Oh, for sure.

Cody (39:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and also, What it'ssaying, like I said, what it's
saying.
So if my inner critic is saying,well, you didn't do enough
today.
Pull out a piece of paper andlist everything you did that
day.
And

Tali (40:00):
Yeah, you have to kind of fact

Cody (40:01):
check, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So once in a while, I, I don'tremember when I came up with
this term, but I call it a toonelist instead of a to-do list.
I love it.
And when I'm feeling like that,like, man, I feel like I'm
working and I'm tired, but I'mnot making any progress.
And where I'm sometimes.

(40:21):
It's valuable to write down alist of everything you did do,
because sometimes you'll seethat, oh, that was busy work.
I could have just skipped that.
You know, I'm wasting energythere.
That's why I started the to donelist is to try to find areas of
improvement.
But the funny side effect thathappened out of it is sometimes
I'd write a to done list andit's like, fuck, I did a lot of

(40:43):
work today.
Like, whoa, that's great.
Like I didn't realize that I hadbeen so productive because my
inner critic was likeoverstating the fact.
On the other hand,

Tali (40:51):
your inner critic is real harsh too.

Cody (40:53):
Yeah, it can be, but like I said, if you, or you said, if
we fact check that sometimesthat can be really revealing.
It's like, yeah, you edited thepodcast today.
You were also on Instagram forthree hours total.
You know, like it was, it wasintense.
That's a really scary one tolook into.
Yeah, it was like in 10 minuteincrements, but still.

(41:15):
you know, you're practicing thisescapism.
So sometimes that inner criticis helping us recognize in
ourselves things that areunhealthy or that would benefit
us to pay attention to.
Oh yeah.
You

Tali (41:27):
get to assign those values and that might change day to
day.
Like, you know, I've beenfeeling kind of like a, a log
today and yesterday.
And I was talking to my, myfriend about it too, cuz she
like, went on a hike today and Iwas like I didn't really, it
wasn't physical very much and Ididn't really get a chance to go
outside, blah, blah, blah.

(41:48):
That's, and she's like going allday.
She's like, you probably neededthat.
Yeah.
And I'm like, you're probablyright, Yeah.
You know, it's easy for me.
Take myself off the hook or youknow, be really freak.
I used to tell my nutritioncoach that I was like forgiving
of myself to a fault.
Mm-hmm.
where that's what I'm talkingabout.
Let myself off the hook all thetime.
Yeah.
That's what I'm talking about.

(42:08):
But when I get it from somebodyelse, it's like, oh, okay, I'll
listen now.
Yeah.
Like he might, he might be rightnow.
Yeah.

Cody (42:14):
Well, I think that really relates to the theme of this
episode is that sometimes youcan't see what you need from
inside the bottle.
Like you can't read the labelfrom inside the bottle.
Mm-hmm.
and having somebody else pointout to you that, you know, you,
you are constantly active, youdo a lot during the week.
Taking a couple days to loungeis not a bad thing.

(42:35):
Like it takes maybe an outsideperspective to show you that
sometimes

Tali (42:40):
I feel a lot more forgiving of it than maybe I did
a few years back.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like you and I havereally created a lot more
healthy.
beliefs about balance.
Mm-hmm.
and, you know, we work reallyhard during the week and we're
really exhausted Yeah.
By the time the weekend comesaround.
And it's gonna be a while untilour weekends are gonna be

(43:00):
weekends, you know, we have afew maybe Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's been a while.
We've been having thisconversation for a long time.
So we, we work through theweekend on the ranch.
We work through the weekend onour business and only recently
did we put our foot down.
We're like, we're gonna take oneday to do nothing.
Yeah.
And we should not feel bad aboutthat.
Yeah.

(43:20):
I actually just saw a friend ofmine, she was an old teammate of
mine.
She posted about that today.
She's like, why do I feel soanxious about what I've gotten
done when I have implemented ado nothing day every single
week?
Mm-hmm.
like that is the intention.
Mm-hmm.
It's really hard to let go ofthat though.
Our, our attachment or our valueon productivity is really.

(43:44):
out of whack.

Cody (43:45):
It can be in general, I'd say it can be, and I know we
keep bringing this up over andover and over again in our
podcast.
What's that?
But we're reading through thisbook extremely slowly cuz we'll
read like two pages and then,

Tali (43:56):
well we haven't touched the book in like two weeks.

Cody (43:58):
Yep.
Well, it's not been that long,but a week and a half.
My point is that we read twopages about every four days,
like on a, if we were to averageit out.
So it's very slow, butessentialism really points to
what you're talking aboutbecause one of the things, and I
don't know if it was in thatbook or just something related,
is that when you take time offin order to feel guilt free,

(44:21):
that's a, that's actually a goodlitmus test for what you should
be doing.
So if we take it back toEssentialism, we can say, okay,
what three things or what twothings, or what one thing can I
do this week that'll allow me torelax on Sunday without feeling
like shit about myself?
If I did one thing this weekthat would help me.

(44:41):
To feel good when I go on thisvacation and not be stressed
out.
What would that one thing be?
Just one Well, like I said, itcould be three or whatever,
because we're talking about aweek long.
Mm-hmm.
We also have talked about thefact that there's no such word
as priorities, right?
Because priority means beforeeverything else prior.
But I think it's a good way totake your big to-do list or your

(45:06):
feelings of, oh, I gotta getthis done and this done and this
done and this done and thisdone.
It's like, well, do you reallylike what, what is realistic and
what is, what would get you tothe point where you're off the
hook and you can take a day offand feel good about it?

Tali (45:21):
And that's really hard to assess yourself.
You and I have a business coachfor that reason.
Exactly.
Yeah.
You know, there have been a lotof things that are easy to get
hung up about and want to shiponly once it's perfect and
mm-hmm.
done and whatever.
And it's really helpful to havesomebody just slash that all.

Cody (45:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Put together a new website forus at howtofittogether.com.
Yeah.

Tali (45:45):
Well, and it's also like half the stuff that used to be
on it too.
Yeah.
Which is great.
The

Cody (45:49):
idea was to make it very simple concise.
Yeah.
And an essentialist website, I'mall over that.
Yeah.
And it, it's okay as it is, butit took me a while, like it took
for me, it's like I'm making avery simple website.
This isn't complicated.
This should be something Mikeshould have done in an
afternoon.
Took me a couple weeks.

(46:10):
And so I was kind of feelinglike, man, I, I feel so
inefficient at that.
And then when I submitted thelink to our business coaches to,
to review it for us, theresponse was, wow, you are on
it.
I'm like, I am Yeah.
So, yeah, it's all, we've beengetting great feedback.
Those perspectives are valuablefrom the third party for sure.
Yeah.

Tali (46:30):
Yeah.
I'm trying to think if there arelike any action steps or any
kind of major takeaways to

Cody (46:36):
Well, I think the to done list is a good thing.
Yeah.
As far as what we were justtalking about.
But as a broader concept, not toto ring our own bell or
anything, but I mean, I thinkcoaching is super valuable If
you have a coach or mentor, ateacher, whatever you wanna call
'em, that can help give you anoutside perspective.
I is so valuable for being ableto try to match up that mismatch

(47:02):
of how it feels versus how itlooks.
How did that lift feel versushow it looked how am I
performing versus how I feelabout how I'm performing.
how am I communicating versushow I feel like I'm
communicating?
Like the other day with thenewsletter that came out, I was
like, man, this thing is way toowordy.
I need to cut this down.

(47:23):
It's like too long.
People are gonna unsubscribebecause it's just too much, too
much.
And you read it and you're like,I love your writing.
This is so good.
I'm like, what?

Tali (47:33):
So, so theme of today is like, you're always just wrong.
your perception is just wrong.

Cody (47:38):
Our perception often is wrong.
So I guess my point is, is thatwe can take a, not consensus,
but we can take data fromdifferent areas.
You can take data from yourself,how you feel, your internal
voice and your coach, mentorpeers, et cetera.
And then you can make somerational decisions on what all
that means.

Tali (47:59):
I just wanna point out what you were saying just a
second ago about how ourperception is often wrong.
And we've talked about this in avery different sense, but we've.
We've pointed to the idea thatit's a mistake to think that
everybody is experiencing orinterpreting things the same way
that you are.
Mm-hmm.

(48:20):
And that's why like definingterms is really important.
Mm-hmm.
that's why stating yourintentions is really important.
It's easy, you know, you and Iwere in a recent situation where
we called somebody out for notbeing able to read their mind
mm-hmm.
you know, like you up in yourown world.
Like what makes you think that Iwould understand any of that.

(48:41):
Mm-hmm.
you know, if you're not tellingme anything, it really puts a
responsibility or an emphasis onthe importance of communication.
And I think that that's what isreally valuable about a coach is
like there is incoming andoutcoming information that you
actually get to interact with.
It's not happening in a vacuum.
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like that's a, amistake we see a lot.

(49:02):
even in the fitness world, likeI think about all the people in
a global gym who are in theirown worlds doing their own
things, headphones on and doinglike really whack shit like
whack shit that you see onInstagram.
I love it so much.
People at like, I think it'slike Crunch Fitness or Planet
Fitness or something very muchmisusing the equipment.

(49:25):
Yeah.
And it's hilarious.
Or people who are just notlifting with good form, like you
are at the risk of, you know,limiting your your progress or
your potential or really hurtingyourself when you don't open up
to feedback.
And I think that that's what'sinteresting about this topic
too, is what it feels likeversus what it looks like.

(49:47):
It's kind of like two differentvantage points of awareness.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, like I said, Ihave a trained eye.
I can look at my own lifts andmake assessments, but it also
does invite.
other people into that worldtoo, if you want it.
Mm-hmm.
But I think to just kind of goabout life with any kind of
assessment, like you said, withinjuries in fascia and how you

(50:11):
will just lose your body willlose that awareness for what it
needs to rebound or catch itselfor whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
We have to kind of put, giveourselves like some support
systems, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And tools of assessment.

Cody (50:29):
Assessment, which is another episode that we've done
and it's very, very valuable.

Tali (50:34):
I talk about assessment I think almost in every single
episode.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think self-assessment ismajor.
I'm in life.
I'm constant doing

Cody (50:42):
in general.
Yeah.
I'm constantly doing that formyself.
Anytime, anytime I'm feeling offlost directionless or whatever,
like try to assess what you'redoing instead of just living in
that frustrated.
thing, or, or feeling like it'sgonna pass or waiting for it to
pass, or just continuing to dowhat you do.
Like stopping and assessing isso huge.

(51:04):
It's so valuable for us.
You and I have pivoted moretimes than I can begin to
imagine as far as our wholelives, like you and I, our, our
jobs are our careers outside thejob.
Just like the big picture, ourphysical training and how we
approach it,

Tali (51:21):
that pivots the most.
we've pivoted a lot, probablyall my fault.

Cody (51:24):
We've pivoted it.
We've pivoted the structure ofour relationship couple times.
Yeah.
We've obviously where we mo welive, like the environment that
we live in it's crazy.
I mean, we, but that constantpivot.
Sometimes it's just like, well,I'm sick of this, or we need to
change this, or whatever.
And it's a little bitspontaneous.
You and I enjoy spontaneity, butsometimes it's out of a, an

(51:48):
assessment like journaling andthings like that, that, yeah.
Is this

Tali (51:52):
working still

Cody (51:53):
or Yeah.
That reveal like, you know, I'mnot getting what I thought I was
gonna get out of this situation,so what do we need to do to
change it?

Tali (52:01):
I think that agility in life is one of the most
important skills that you canlearn because life is going to
take you in multiple directions.
Mm-hmm.
whether you want it to or not.
And there's so much out of ourhands, and I think that ability
to change direction or to makethe next best step, even if it
wasn't according to.
That kind of fluidity, I thinkis what allows you and I not

(52:25):
only to feel creative, but forus to minimize friction in our
lives.
And that was something that youand I talked about even before
we started dating as somethingthat was really important.
And that was an idea that Ilearned from you.
Mm-hmm.
and I didn't really understandit.
But it also requires thatassessment, feedback.
Yeah.
Communication.

(52:46):
Like none of that would be ableto happen if you and I couldn't
communicate well with eachother.
Yeah, that's true.
Or feel free of judgment fromone another.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Cody (52:55):
Yeah.
And it's a perishable skill.
You know, I've, I've used thatterm before that, you know, if
you use it or lose it, it's justlike range of motion of a joint.
Mm-hmm.
if you don't practice agilityand your ability to shift focus
or.
Change your mind about things.

(53:15):
If you don't practice that on aregular basis, that's what gets
you to be like an oldcurmudgeony person that no one
can ever agree with on anything,because you're like stuck in
your ways and,

Tali (53:27):
and like, not just stuck in your ways, but like out of
touch.
Out of touch.
Yeah.
Like you have like put that oldshoe on so many times that
you're like fly stoning out ofit.
Like you've busted out of it atthat point.
Yeah, yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And it doesn't even serve youanymore.
Yeah.

Cody (53:43):
So once again, that's, it's just like something we
associate with age or culture,but it's a skill you can, you
can teach yourself to be moreversatile and more agile in your
life, in the way you think andthe way you act and the things
that you do.
But you have to stay on it.
You know?
You can't just practice it inyour youth and then settle down

(54:07):
and.
Think that you still have theability to do that.

Tali (54:11):
So do you think the, what it feels like versus what it
looks like, you know, we've,we've said how that seems to be
kind of a mystifying phenomenonthat just exists.
You know, if you think aboutjust like with the lifting and
the way it feels and the way itlooks on the outside mm-hmm.
is that just something to likebe aware of and like just get

(54:33):
comfortable with that idea, thatkind of disconnect or dissonance
between the two?
Mm-hmm.
or is there like an aim to makethose match more?
I don't know.
I'm curious, like what do you dowith that?

Cody (54:45):
For me, there's an instinct to try to make it match
more, but that's just because Iwant to be aware of reality Like
that's a philosophy.
Objectivism is a philosophy thatI went down the rabbit hole of
15 years ago or more, and it'sthe idea that there is an
objective reality, but we onlyhave.

(55:07):
our unique perspective in thisbig world of objective reality.
And so we can't see a hundredpercent truth all the time.
Right.
But we can work to get closerand closer to it.
And a lot of the things thatwe've already talked about are
tools for doing that.
You talked about like definingterms in a conversation, for

(55:27):
instance.
Mm-hmm.
that helps both people cometogether in their perspective
and get somewhere closer tohopefully some objective truth
or reality versus just asubjective point of view of
that.
And so I have an instinct ordesire to always try to close
that gap a little bit.

(55:48):
And I feel like I'm training mybrain to be better I mean, I'm
gonna put a value judgment on itto be better if I can, if my
perception is closer to reality.
And I think you and Iinstinctively do that a lot
because again, relating back tothe gym, a lot of times you, I

(56:09):
it's very, it's almost everylift.
Like we'll lift and then we'lllook at the other person and be
like, how did that look It'slike, you know how it felt, you
just did it, but you still wantto ask like, well, how did that
look?
Or like, I had you, you know,look at my squats the other day
cuz I felt like I was shiftingmy weight really extremely to
one side and experiencing somepain.
And then you're like, that's notthat bad.

(56:29):
you, you put that

Tali (56:30):
up from behind.
Well, even reflecting on thiskind of back tweak that I have,
I was like, did I do somethingwrong yesterday?
You know, I always jumped tolike, oh, I must have been doing
something stupid if I've been,you know, rewarded with a back
tweak.
Mm-hmm.
It's really easy to be hard onmyself in that arena.
It's a very.

(56:51):
Odd dynamic that I have in thegym because I know that I move
really well.

Cody (56:56):
You do.
I know that you move really,really well.
Love watching you move.
Thank you.
You know, you're in yourthirties now.
Okay.
Which means you could have justslept wrong.

Tali (57:07):
Good point.
You know what's so funny is Iput out that meme of like the
solitaire cards from like,really, like Windows 98 or maybe
even earlier than that.
Yeah.
And it was a meme that like hadthe different options that you
could choose and it had the palmtree and the castle and the fish
and the whatever else, and itwas like, If you know what these

(57:28):
are, like your back hurts.
And I feel like that was suchkarmic shit.
Like I put that out I think onlike Thursday or Friday.
You're like, haha, I know.
And now I've got a back tweakthat like every time I sneeze is
so fucking painful.

Cody (57:41):
Yeah, I was worried about you.
You're not a chronic sneezer,like a multiple sneezer usually.
So I was a little worried aboutyou this morning.

Tali (57:47):
I woke up feeling kind of weird this morning.
Seven sneezes in a row.
Yeah.
I felt kind of like allergic tosomething this morning.
Cats?
No.
Cats.
No, I don't think he's gone.
Yeah.
You know, one of the things thatI love about this podcast so
much is that it really feeds myinterest in personal truths.

(58:11):
And I, I don't, I use, I usuallyuse the term universal truths,
but I know that that can't.
really ever be the case becauseof perception.
Mm-hmm.
And so I, I'm just kind ofwondering about this dynamic.
Is that just something in lifethat we just get to kind of
experience and play with andjust try to have a good attitude

(58:33):
about it?
You know, for instance someone Iknow their partner died today,
and I don't know if you werelistening to the conversation,
but immediately my mom'sresponse was, well, that doesn't
have to be a sad thing, youknow, and I know that she really

(58:56):
trains herself.
She's been really working onkind of changing the narrative
around death and the fear aroundit and the sterile nature of it
and, you know, everybody beingafraid and walking on eggshells
around each other and thingslike that.
Mm-hmm.
and.
it's, it's just kind of one ofthose things kind of like this
where I'm just like, well, do Ijust have a choice that I can

(59:19):
decide how to engage with itdifferently?
You know, like whether it'sassigning a different value to
it, like this is not inherentlygood or bad, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And that's why I was wonderinglike, well, is there something
we can do with this?
Like, is matching what it feelslike and what it looks like
really matter?
Because when I think about thatexample that I brought up about

(59:42):
like anxiety for instance, likeare we encouraging then for
people to outwardly express thatanxiety or do we wanna continue
to encourage that?
What could be considered like afacade on the outside or just an
attempt to gain control over it?

Cody (59:59):
I think you can do a little bit of both.

Tali (01:00:01):
Because I would say that the gaining of control of it is
kind of training you out of it.
Yeah.
That would be my hope at least.

Cody (01:00:07):
Yeah, I think you can do both.
One thing I've learned to do.
Better in, after about the ageof 40 or so is there's kind of a
funny cliche that like the olderyou get, the less fucks you have
to give.
You know, and I did have kind oflike a turning point when I was
about 42 in the, I'm just gonnabe really?
Isn't that when I met you?

(01:00:28):
Yeah.
Really honest and vulnerablewith everyone in my life.
And then they can just take itor leave it and I'm, that
doesn't mean I'm gonna try to bean asshole.
And people who put up with meare the ones who stick.
That's not the point.
The point is that I'm gonna bereally, really me and not try to
be a people pleaser so that therelationships that I do have are
really valuable because theyreally know me.

Tali (01:00:50):
How would you say you've done with that?

Cody (01:00:52):
Well, like I said, I'm better.
I'm not, I'm not saying I'mperfect, but to getting to your
point as far as the anxietything, is that because I've made
that decision, I've come to thisthing where like I'll go into a
position.
Of nervousness or anxiety, andI'll just tell the person I'm
with, like, I am super nervousright now.
Mm-hmm.
you know, like, I just lettingyou know, like I'm kind of

(01:01:14):
freaking out inside.
But I also can try to mitigateit by like posturing and smiling
and being open to communicationand that kind of thing, rather
than like tightening up,

Tali (01:01:27):
you know?
Yeah.
Not giving into it.
Yeah.
So it's totally okay to havefear and it's okay to have
anxiety.
I think it's only problematicwhen you let it rule your life.

Cody (01:01:35):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think I think that's avaluable rabbit hole to go down
in this whole concept of likehow it feels versus how it
looks, is that you can controloftentimes how things feel by
changing how it looks like, howyou move, how you react, how

(01:01:57):
you, you, the actions that youtake can change the way you feel
about something.
And over time you can Reallytake hold of that.
I was reading in Atomic Habitsthis morning.
Is that James Clear, I think isthe author.
I'm reading like five books atonce, so I'm getting authors
mixed up.
He talks about breaking badhabits by changing your

(01:02:20):
association with them and thereis a book that he recommended in
that book, which I don'tremember.

Tali (01:02:26):
That was Sounds like Inception,

Cody (01:02:27):
Yeah.
That was about quitting smoking.
Okay.
And the whole book apparentlyabout changing, like teaching
people to quit smoking is tochange your mindset around
smoking.
And it was really funny cuz itwas sort of like, you don't.
You tell yourself you want acigarette, but you don't want a
cigarette, you're trying to quitsmoking, you don't want the

(01:02:47):
cigarette.

Tali (01:02:48):
And that's that primitive and advanced mind stuff coming
up that I wrote down.

Cody (01:02:52):
Yeah.
And but it was really coolbecause he got to a point in
Atomic Habits where he'steaching you strategy for being
able to change your mindsetaround habits.
And like for instance, and youand I have actually talked about
this on a previous episode ofthis podcast, which is.
I have to go to the gym, I getto, I get to go to the gym.

(01:03:14):
Mm-hmm.
and that little shift ofmindset.
And he was talking about doingthat for everything you have to
do in the day.
It's like, I get to run someerrands today.
I get to edit this podcasttoday.
I get to because that he, he'slike, you can find your brain
can find evidence to supporteither perspective.
Yes.
You, you can find evidence tosupport the fact that you have

(01:03:35):
to do this thing and it's aslog.
And you can also find evidencefor y it's a privilege to have
the ability to do this thingthat other people might not be
able to do.
Mm-hmm.
Or you're doing this job that,or career that you've chosen,
you know, that kind of thing.
So it's kinda like findinggratitude in things that may
seem unpleasant.
And on the flip side of that, hewas talking about like eating

(01:03:58):
sugar or something.
And you can actually change yourmindset around habits if you're
like chronically sugar seekingor snacking or something in that
like, This might taste good, butI know it's gonna make me feel
like garbage.
And that's something that I'vedone.
I didn't really know, I didn'tdefine it as a tool like he does
in this chapter of AtomicHabits, but you can really train

(01:04:20):
yourself to want to avoid.
Like, I've, I don't evenremember the last time I had a
Pepsi or Coke or soda.
Like I just so rare.
And

Tali (01:04:30):
I, we almost had the opportunity this weekend.
Yeah.
And

Cody (01:04:33):
I was, I, I mean, I used to be like a two liter habit, a
day soda drinker.

Tali (01:04:39):
And you have no cavities.
Are you

Cody (01:04:41):
shitting me?
Well, I did back then.
I ha you know, I don't now.
Oh.
But okay.
But the thing that got me out ofthat was just like, I know if I,
well, what got me out of it is Itried like a paleo type diet for
a while and no sugar.
Everything is just whole foodsand such,

Tali (01:04:57):
I have to say.
And then the only time I'dreally be okay with like a
restrictive diet or somethingthat has like blacklisted items
is if.
Most of your life is likeprocessed food, because normally
I'm not in favor of like,restrictive diets at all.
Yeah, yeah.
But I would say if like youreally need to change what your
idea of food is, then maybe it'simportant if it has

Cody (01:05:17):
a food label on it, it's not food Like real food doesn't
come with a label.
You just, you can see a stock ofasparagus and you know, oh, this
is a hundred percent asparagus.
I don't need a label to tell me.
So but anyway, back to mymindset issue is like, I have
trained myself now to where I,when I see an indulgent food,
it's like, I know that's gonnamake me tired in two hours and I

(01:05:40):
don't wanna be tired in twohours, therefore I don't want
that piece of pie.
But if I can look at that pieceof pie and be like, I think if I
eat half of that and we're sureto get some protein and some
exercise in right after this,I'll probably feel okay and then
I can indulge in it and.
But the thing is, is I'vebrought that awareness to my
mind where it's not like I wantthe sugar, I want the treat.

(01:06:02):
This is gonna, this is gonnataste great.
This is gonna be good.
It's gonna, it's all good.
Right?
But I'm able to, as a course ofhabit, just know that I'm gonna
feel a certain way when I eatthe certain food.

Tali (01:06:15):
You've created new associations with it.

Cody (01:06:17):
It, exactly.
And that's the whole point ofthe tangent that I'm trying, I'm
trying to go on, is that you canchange your both for good habits
and bad habits.
Is that you can reframe in yourmind, oh, it's not hard to quit
smoking because I don't wannasmoke.
I don't want emphysema.
I don't want to be panting allthe time.
I don't wanna stink.
I don't like, you know, like youcan,

Tali (01:06:38):
but I yourself also wanna look cool.
I hate to say it.
I still think cigarette smokinglooks so cool.

Cody (01:06:45):
It's funny because I was really repulsed by it for a long
time.
And then something happened.
I don't know why I started toget really attracted to the
rebellious.
Girl thing.
And so now I see a chick smokingand I'm like, oh, that's kind of
hot.
I dunno, but I don't wanna be achronic smoker either.
So.
Yeah.
But anyway, I think it's a goodtakeaway to think about managing

(01:07:09):
your feelings and how those helpyou make decisions by changing
your association in certainsettings or certain activities
or whatever.
Because you can manage yourfeel, you're feeling, you're not
at the mercy of your feelings.
Like you can change the way youfeel about things.

Tali (01:07:23):
Yes.
You absolutely can.
And it's really, really, reallyfreeing when you learn that.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it doesn't mean likethey're all gonna be able to
change just as easily from oneto the next, but we do have
choices around that.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (01:07:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
You feeling like wrapping up?
Sure.
We've got some bumpers torecord.
Yes, we do.
Good.
Yeah.
Well, we we'll see you all nextweek.
Thanks for listening.
We really, or watchingAppreciate it or watching now.
Yeah.
And we'll see you in a week.
I love you.

(01:07:59):
I love you too.

Tali (01:08:03):
This episode was produced by Tali Zari and Cody Limbaugh.
Check out our writing, coachingservices and home studying
adventures at live all yourlife.com.
For show notes, resourcesmentioned, or to submit a
question or contribution, clickon the podcast tab.