041 Learning Styles, Teaching Styles, Communication, and A.I.: The Philosophy of Fitness Ep. 31

Episode Transcript
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Cody (00:16):
Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh.
And I'm

Tali (00:18):
Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the Philosophy of
Fitness Podcast on the

Cody (00:22):
Live All Your Life Network.

(00:43):
Okay,

Tali (00:44):
so

Cody (00:45):
from the top, take two.
Take two.
We had some technicaldifficulties.
We just got through about 20minutes of podcast in release.
I wasn't coming through.
Look at you.
Look at you.
Go look at my peaks now.
Your sound waves look great.
Okay.
Don't say anything.
It's fine.
Sorry.

Tali (01:01):
Keep going.
I can't, I can't act normal whenthat happens.
All right, so today'sicebreaker.
Today's icebreaker.
Maybe we should pick a differentone.

Cody (01:19):
Oh, we can just pretend like we didn't have the
conversation.
We just had.
It was a good icebreaker.
I think it relates to the topicof the show.

Tali (01:28):
Alright, so my icebreaker of choice for today is about
drawing and whether you have apreference of being the artist
or the subject As Cody and Ihave experience in both, go.

Cody (01:43):
Yes.
Well we were just to fill inwhat you missed.
We were figure models for adrawing class.
We've each done well.
You've done a lot more than Ihave.
Mm-hmm.
And I did one session with you.
And then we both took a coupleclasses where we were the
artists, and I gotta say that,what are you laughing about?

(02:05):
I'm sorry, I can't help, butlike, you're just like

Tali (02:07):
staring at the I can't help it.
I'm just trying to make surethat you're on board.
It's coming through.

Cody (02:12):
Okay.
I was saying that for myexperience because I'm so rusty
and I feel like I used to be adecent artist, and now it's
like, I feel like most of what Iput down is sort of trashy.
That it's easier for me to bethe model cuz just standing
around naked in front of peopleisn't that difficult for me.
But having to produce somethingthat looks good with a skill is

(02:33):
something I'm a little bit moreself-conscious about.
So for me it's easier to be themodel, but I'd prefer to be the
artist more often because Iwanna get better at it and I'm
not gonna get better at it if Idon't practice.
So, no,

Tali (02:44):
interestingly, when I started doing the modeling and
IT and Word kind of got out atwork about it, so many people
would come up to me and say,wow, I can't believe you're
doing that.
That sounds so hard.
I'm like, ah.
I was like, no, it's actuallypretty easy.
It's like some of the easiestmoney I've ever made.

(03:05):
Yeah.
Sure you get really stiff andmaybe it gets a little bit
boring at times becausesometimes there's interaction
with you, but not all the time.
But you know, you do have to bethoughtful about creating
interesting shapes and.
Dynamic poses so that theartists have a lot to work with
in any given hour.

(03:25):
But I do prefer being on theartist's side.
I feel really drawn to drawing.
Huh.
And it feels like there's a lotunder the surface that I don't
know yet.
And so it feels really exciting.
Mm-hmm.
And the time flies by so muchmore quickly drawing than being
the subject.

(03:46):
Being the subject can feel likea very

Cody (03:48):
long time.
Oh yeah.
Sitting still like reallysitting still, not just
meditating or anything.
Mm-hmm.
But just like really sittingstill because if you move,
you're gonna fuck everyone'sdrawing up is harder than it
sounds like for 20 minutes of astretch at a time.
It's like, holy shit.
How Or

Tali (04:05):
40.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I took that really seriously.
You know, the teacher.
Told me many times that I havethe option to take breaks, and I
very seldom did.
Mm-hmm.
I think the only time I evertook breaks were when you and I
were working together, andthat's probably because, you

(04:26):
know, our poses kind of dependon each other, and so either
your weight on mine or my weighton yours, like it would just
need a little bit of shiftingfrom time to time.
But I'm really excited.
We've got another series comingup and we've been practicing at
home a little bit here andthere, which has been cool to do
in the meantime.
So I really appreciate you beingwilling to be my subject.

Cody (04:47):
Sure.
Vice versa.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Tali (04:50):
So today's topic is all about learning styles and.
It's gonna be a little bittricky going over this because
like Cody said, we had alreadydone like 20 minutes of the
podcast already, and so I don'twanna miss anything that we
already said, but it, it feelsweird to kind of go back over
it.
It feels redundant already, eventhough we have, this is a fresh

(05:10):
recording.
Yeah, that's fine.
But something that's interestingabout this particular subject is
I think the theme is maybe moreclosely related in a gym sense
to coaching.
There's a lot of different waysto be an athlete.
An athlete defined as someonewho works out intentionally.
And yeah, I think we're gonnahave a lot more to say from the

(05:35):
coaching side than the athleteside, but, I would say when we
take things out to a largerscale or outside the gym as a
student, this comes in handy orI would say this is a little bit
more prevalent.
Yeah.
Exploring

Cody (05:51):
this idea.
Yeah.
So as a coach, one of the thingsto develop is a lot of different
communication styles so that youare making sure that you're
getting through to everybody.
So you may be teaching a squat ahundred times, but you might not
teach it exactly the same way.
Mm-hmm.
Each of those a hundred times.
And it's kind of interestingtoo, when you have a lot of
experience as a coach, likewe've been doing this for years

(06:13):
and years, how you can use a lotof, you find really good
communication tools that workfor most people.
Yes.
And so you're gonna get intothis thing where you're teaching
the squad similarly to all thenew students that come in, and
then all of a sudden you getsomebody who just doesn't seem
to get it, like, The last 20people got it.
Like, why aren't you?

(06:33):
So you have to, you have toreally be able to call on those
sort of old tools from when youwere first a coach and like
exploring the differentcommunication styles in order
and you have to kind of dig thatskill back out again.
Mm-hmm.
For that one person who's justnot getting these cues that most
people get, but for some reasonthis person is just not relating
or not understanding what you'reasking of them.

Tali (06:52):
Sure.
I was telling my mom earliertoday the difference in
enjoyment when it comes toteaching a group and coaching
one-on-one, like personaltraining and I was saying how
we're kind of interested inchanging our next few steps in
our business model for ourin-person options.

(07:12):
And I was telling her.
Not only is it more efficient tobe coaching more people at once,
but it makes the experience as acoach a lot more interesting.
It's easy when you work with oneperson, one-on-one that you
know, you get used to how theyoperate really well, and it's
easy for those grooves to feelreally greased up.
And I can see how that would beconsidered a benefit to know how

(07:36):
to communicate with somebodyeffectively.
But in a way it kind ofatrophies being able to coach
other people effectively.
Mm-hmm.
Because you get so comfortablein a single modality or a
certain language aroundsomething.
So I actually really preferworking with groups because not
only is the energy a lot moreexciting, but you have to call

(07:58):
upon your teaching tools.
Much more Yeah.
Than you would with a singleperson.

Cody (08:04):
Yeah.
And this is a little bit of atangent, but I'm gonna bring it
up cuz it's interesting stuff.
It, I was just reading in, I'mreading several books at once,
so I forget exactly which one,but I believe this was in atomic
Habits by James Clear.
And he was relating to differentparts of the brain that sort of
expand with different skillsets.

(08:26):
And so we were just talkingabout that this morning.
Yeah.
We were talking about that thismorning with racket any racket
sports like e whether it's tabletennis or, or regular tennis
Pickleball.
Pickleball or how it came up.
Any of these That there is somuch fast strategy going.
It, it's a certain skill level,of course.
Like this would not be true forme because I don't know jack's

(08:47):
shit about any racket sport asfar as strategy.
You would still be training itthough.
Yeah, but there's no strategyinvolved.
It's just like, hit the ball,you know?
Yeah.

Tali (08:54):
Just don't die coming to me.
Yeah.

Cody (08:56):
Sure.
But once you get past thatwhole, like, I gotta hit the
ball stage and there's somestrategy involved.
The combination of fast movementand the agility aspect with the
accuracy aspect of using theracket in the ball and the
strategy of thinking of where toplace your opponent and thinking

(09:16):
like two or three hits ahead,almost like a chess match.
When all those things are inplay it actually helps to grow
your cerebellum.
And they, they actually.
They can see like people whoplay racket sports versus people
who don't.
And you can see a sizedifference in the brain.
That's kind of interesting.
Cool.
The other one they did thoughwas with taxi drivers.

(09:39):
And I'm gonna get the parts ofthe brain mixed up, so I'm not
gonna say which part it is, butthere's basically a section of
your brain that has to do withspatial recognition and mapping.
And so you can kind of visualizea city or where you're at or
your s spatial awareness whetherthat's parallel parking or like
where you're gonna turn next orwhatever.

(10:01):
And cab drivers in New York havean enlarged section of their
brain.
What, like un like literally youcan measure the size of their
brain in this one section that'sresponsible for mapping and
visualization for spatialawareness is larger than people
who are not taxi drivers.
But the interesting thing, andthe reason I bring this up is,
It when people quit the job andthey test them later, that part

(10:25):
of their brain atrophies.
Mm-hmm.
And so it goes back to a normalperson who's not getting that.
And I guess the reason I bringthat up is you were talking
about coaching and sort ofgetting into this zone of like,
if you're one-on-one client andyou only have one or two, and
you get into this communicationstyle, it starts to narrow your
skillset because you totally,those skills that you're using

(10:47):
by coaching 40 or 50 people in aday like we used to on the
regular.
Right.
Those skills will start toatrophy even in a physical
sense.
It's not just like, Oh, Iforgot.
No, it's like literally yourbrain is shrinking in that area
that you had expanded.

Tali (11:02):
I totally believe it.
I feel like I experienced thatand know that that is happening.
And

Cody (11:07):
it's one idea that I, I wish that more people were aware
of is that your brain acts verymuch like a bicep in, in a very
simplistic way.
If you lift heavier weight andyou do progressive loading and
you're using the range of motionand you're, you're constantly
practicing fitness, you'll remaintain muscle throughout your

(11:30):
life.
Yeah.
And I believe, and I think moreand more and more the science is
pointing toward this, thatthings like brain plasticity,
which they think, you know, youused to think just didn't happen
after a certain age.
Sure.
And that's been disproven.
Well, I believe that even thecurrent theories of, well it
happens after a certain age, butto a much lesser degree.

(11:52):
I still think that's bullshit.
I think, I think what'shappening is that people
specialize, they get into aroutine of their life and the
longer they're in that routine,the more plasticity they lose
because they're not using it.
There's not enough variedexperience.
Exactly.
They're not learning new skillslike how many 70 or 80 year olds
are starting a new habit or anew hobby or a new career.

(12:14):
Some are, it's becoming moreprevalent, but it's not the
norm.
No.
Most 70 year olds have beendoing the same shit they've been
doing for the last 50 years and.
I think that's a huge reason forcognitive decline.
So the today's podcast seemskind of specialized, like it's a
coaching style.
We're gonna be talking aboutdifferent learning styles that

(12:35):
we have had to learn andpractice as coaches.
Yep.
And maybe you're not a coach,but even if you're not a coach,
I think being aware that you canframe learning into different
styles of learning andexperiment with doing them
yourself, I think can contributeto having a more nimble and

(12:56):
agile mind.
Mm-hmm.
And a more critical thinking.
Ability and maintain thatthroughout your life if you
continue to practice it.
Sure.
So I think this podcast, eventhough it's kind of specialized
into our experience as coaches,I think this can really carry
over to some pretty cool stuff.
If, if you treat your brain likeyour body and know that you have

(13:18):
to work out, you have to douncomfortable things and you
have to have a consistentpractice and you have to try new
things, and you have tointroduce new stimulus if you
want growth.
And, you know, for a long timethey would say like, well do
crossword puzzles or Sudoku orwhatever, however you re say
that, Sudoku and to keep yourmind sharp and everything.

(13:40):
It's like, well, that, that'sone pathway that might be, well,
it's not, it's, I I was gonnasay it might be true for three
to six months, but doingcrossword puzzles for 20 years
is not gonna keep you young andin mind.

Tali (13:52):
Well, and you, we were just talking about multiple
areas of the brain that havedifferent specialties.
Exactly.
You can't.
Only grease the groove of one.
Exactly.
If you want overall health orplasticity.
Yeah.

Cody (14:03):
So particularly for plasticity, it's, it is
important to constantly belearning new skills.

Tali (14:09):
I have to say I've been stuck on this idea since you
mentioned it with the taxidrivers.
Hmm.
What did they do before gps?
They just had to know their wayaround or, and like hopefully
the most efficient route.
Well,

Cody (14:22):
they probably had a Thomas guide.
A what?
A Thomas guide.
Which is that a map?
Yes, it's a map.
And I used to have one for LAwhen I lived there.
Oh, because that was pre gps.
Well, I think GPS was around,this was like early to mid
nineties, but only the extremelywealthy people had them.

(14:42):
And it was probably like a g p Sunit.
It's not something that wasbuilt into your phone or

Tali (14:47):
car.
And I don't mean to like datemyself too.
Extremely here.
But when I was a kid MapQuestwas a major thing, and like my
mom would have pages and pagesof printed out MapQuests.
Yeah.
But that's still just in thecar,

Cody (15:01):
but that's still just directions.
MapQuest gave you directions,turn left, turn right, do this,
do that.
A Thomas guide was just a bigfucking map, like it was, when I
say adventure and choose yourown adventure, when I say a big
fucking map, I'm saying this wasabout an inch thick book that
was spiral bound that you keptin your car and it was the map
of la but each page was like agrid of few blocks so that you

(15:26):
could, and so you'd, you'd haveto travel from page to

Tali (15:29):
page.
How exactly do you do that ifyou are a loan in the car?

Cody (15:33):
There would be, I would put sometimes like pencil marks
or.
Or I would write down thedirections and then if you get
lost, you have to pull over and

Tali (15:45):
open your map up.
So you had to do some work aheadof time.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (15:48):
Oh yeah.
I, so I, I never would'vesurvived When I, when I lived in
LA I couldn't get a job to savemy life.
I applied at McDonald's andthere was like 150 applicants or
something.
I may be exaggerating, but Idon't think I am.
Cuz this was a two story tallMcDonald's Damn weird.
Like a standalone building.
It was LA but it was like a twostory cuz they had like a dining

(16:09):
area upstairs.
Okay.
And they closed that off for theday for applicants.
And so there were like fivemanagers there from different
stores all helping get throughthe initial application process.
And so every table in theupstairs restaurant part was
full of people applying andthere was a line going down the
stairs.
Damn.
And I was just in that big pool.

(16:30):
And I think I actually, I, I gotthat job initially.
I don't know why I actuallynever went to work.
I think, I think the way they,they filter people out is like,
okay.
Out of those 150, we're takingthese 20 candidates.
And then these 20 candidates gothrough like a an initiation,
like you sit down and watch allthe stupid corporate videos
uhhuh, like how great it is towork at McDonald's and what an

(16:53):
opportunity it is and sexualharassment, you know, and, and
that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
And I remember being in the roomwith that and it was like seven
of us at that point.
Okay, so you made it through thefirst round.
Yeah, but then I never gotcalled to work and I think it's
just a test.
It's like, if we don't call youto work, are you, do you have
the initiative to call us andsay, Hey, you didn't call me.
I've been through initiation,like when's my start date?

(17:14):
Well, that is, and I never did.
Well

Tali (17:15):
you're not much of, much of one to call anyone.

Cody (17:18):
Yeah.
Well my point with all that rantwas that the only work that I
could actually find down therewas extras work on movie sets.
The problem with how rad, theproblem with that and the GPS
topic is that you, they'realways somewhere else.
Like you're never just showingup to the same studio over and
over again.
Mm-hmm.
It's like, oh, we're filming inthis park on this random

(17:41):
schoolyard at eight o'clock thisnight, and it'll probably go for
the next 48 hours.
You know, so, Yeah.
So I would, the night before,stay up on, and actually what we
would do is we would map it withthe Thomas guide, and then we
would drive it the night beforejust to make sure I knew where
the fuck I was going.
And then I'd go home and go tobed and then try to do it again
and in the morning, just to makesure.

(18:01):
Are you serious?
Yeah, because I, I mean, I'mfrom a small, small, small,
small town there.
There's not a single stoplightin the whole county of where I
got my driver's license, andthen I went from that to la, so
I would like drive it twice justto make sure

Tali (18:18):
that's so endearing.
Hmm.

Cody (18:20):
Wow.
It Well, and the interestingthing too is that sometimes the
way to get somewhere is not thesame.
You don't just go in reverse togo home.
No.
Like sometimes there's one waystreets.
Oh yeah.
Or the traffic changes in thecertain parts of town or
whatever.
So there would be many timeswhen I'd get to the job
successfully, but getting homewas like an adventure.

Tali (18:42):
I love hearing your LA stories.
I am also super grateful that Ididn't have to do that.
That sounds

Cody (18:49):
like such a bitch.
And for all of you listening, Iwas 17 at the time, so Yeah, it
was it was an adventurous time.

Tali (18:55):
You're so cute.
I was just thinking about how,you know, when I started
CrossFit, that was really thefirst time I had ever been in an
situation where things weredemonstrated effectively.
Mm.
You know, I think about like PEclass and that president's test,

(19:16):
and they'd be, the teacher wouldtell us like, okay, now climb
the rope.
Yeah.
It's like, How Well theyprobably didn't know, how are
you gonna show me?
Yeah.
And most often than not, likeyou would not be shown, you
would just be told how to dothings and, you know, physical
arena or not.
I feel like verbal teachingmethods have been kind of

(19:42):
standard, at least in likeschooling and stuff.
Mm-hmm.
I always had trouble with that.
Always.
It was never enough to likefully understand what was being
asked of me to do.
Yeah.
I always needed things to beshown to me and I think I
struggled in subjects thatdidn't like that was an, an
inherent part of it.
Like math, for instance.

(20:04):
But when I started takingphysics classes, which is like
applied math, it all made senseto me.
Mm-hmm.
But that's because I could seewhat was happening.
Mm-hmm.
I could say, just to be told thesame thing over and over again
and like, it's just supposed towork.
Yeah.
Really didn't do much for me.
And so CrossFit was reallyexciting because there was such

(20:26):
an emphasis on, you know,breaking things down into small
pieces.
I'm gonna show you now, it'syour turn.
Let me, you know, fix it aswe're moving through it.
And then we put all the piecestogether.
It was kind of the first timethings had been broken down in
digestible pieces that Iactually could learn.
Yeah.

(20:47):
And it's a really valuable skillto be able to pass along.

Cody (20:50):
Yeah.
I feel like I'm just gonna, thisisn't meant to dog on teachers
specifically because I thinkteachers get the brunt of a lot
of issues.
Formalized education or staterun education.
And a lot of times they don'thave the autonomy to do anything
differently than what they'redoing.
Or just ideal conditions.
But I would say that physicaleducation, PE in schools is a

(21:15):
fucking joke.
It's not an education at all.
It's physical, but it's not aneducation.
Calling it physical education isa absolutely absurd because from
my recollection, and I don'tthink things have probably
gotten better, is

Tali (21:31):
that Well, don't they keep cutting things out?
Yeah.
Like recess gets shortened.
Our classes are shortened.
Physical education's probablynext

Cody (21:39):
on the list, but it's not just the I, I guess my beef with
it was, it was never educationalever.
It was, there was no educationcomponent whatsoever.
Maybe health class it was, but,but I'm saying PE is called
physical education.
Yeah.
And it's not.
It's run these kids so thatthey're not so obnoxious in
their next period.
Like, that's pretty much it.
Or play volleyball or playwhatever.

(22:01):
And it's like organized recess.
Mm-hmm.
And there's no educationwhatsoever.
And when I became a personaltrainer and then later on, like
a coach strength coach, I, I,there's, there's certain aspects
of that that it's, to me it'sjust ridiculous.
Like any, any level one CrossFitcoach out there who has at least

(22:24):
a year's worth of experience.
Any, and I say any, and there'ssome shitty coaches out there,
it's probably providing a muchmore valuable service to their
members than they ever got instate schools.
As far

Tali (22:36):
however, education, I can't think of a lot of
opportunities, even personallywhere I'm in a CrossFit class
and I'm learning, you know,you'll learn the benefits of why
you're doing what you're doing,but not necessarily, isn't that
something?

Cody (22:51):
It's something in pe it's just like run until you don't
feel good anymore, you know?
And it's just like, what's, whatam I learning here?
You know, I didn't, I don'tknow, I had a pretty bad
experience myself cuz I wouldlike puke and then they'd say,
well you, you set this out andwatch everybody else run.
But I guess my point

Tali (23:09):
is, ugh, I wish I would've had that luxury.
Cody.

Cody (23:12):
There was no learning styles involved because there
was no learning.
There was.
Activity.
Just busy work.
You know, I'm

Tali (23:18):
wondering what most have taken place because I do, you
know, I remember my first highschool that I went to, we had
pretty distinct blocksthroughout the year of what we
were quote unquote learning.
Mm-hmm.
Like I remember having golf andballroom dancing and softball,

(23:39):
but I don't remember likelearning technique.
Yeah.
Like you're lucky if you show upand know what it is already.

Cody (23:50):
So the closest I had to that was in grade school.
I remember we had a unit on jumprope and they had jump rope team
come in to motivate us and theywould.
This explains why you're such ajump rope.
So we had this like scene schoolassembly and we watched this
team and then we took a unit onjump rope.
Those kids are amazing.
I don't think most people gotvery far, but it was something.

(24:11):
And then I remember also a uniton juggling.
I

Tali (24:15):
remember learning, juggling and PE

Cody (24:16):
too.
Yeah.
Which is kind of cool.
It's like learning a skill forhand eye coordination.
But if you still think about itas like physical education, it's
like, what's the takeaway there?
Like they're, they're nottelling you like, Hey, this is
applicable somewhere.
Yeah.
Well they're not even explainingto you like, Hey, we're working
on hand eye coordination andhere's how it can carry over to
other things.
And you know, none of that'sever discussed.

(24:38):
It's just like, here's ahandkerchief, throw it in the
air and then we'll go to two ofthem and then we'll go to three
and then we'll switch to a balland blah, blah, blah.
I never made

Tali (24:46):
it past the handkerchief phase.

Cody (24:48):
Yeah.
I didn't play it.
It's too hard.
I had a couple of friends thoughthat did That's right.
Got pretty good cuz they werepracticing at home probably.

Tali (24:56):
Well, so as I mentioned just a little bit ago, I'm more
of a visual learner.
I really need to see how thingsare done to feel confident to
even attempt them.
Mm-hmm.
I, I've mentioned to you manytimes that I feel like I don't
have a really activeimagination, so I feel like I
need some sort of reference toknow what's gonna happen to feel

(25:21):
comfortable enough to even gofor it.
And I'm curious how, what kindof learner would you say you
are?

Cody (25:28):
This may be stretching the point a little bit, but I feel
like I'm an experientiallearner.
Ooh.
Like, I feel like the more Iexperience something, the, the
more I really understand itbecause I take in information in
all kinds.
I'm a book reader.
Versus audiobook reader.
You know, I have a couplefriends who will literally

(25:48):
refuse to read books.
It's just like, if it's not anaudiobook, it's it's not gonna
happen.
I can make

Tali (25:53):
a case for audiobook though.

Cody (25:54):
Yeah, I know.
But a lot of people can.
But I think my, my point isthough, I listen to a lot of
podcasts.
Mm.
So I understand that like theconvenience and benefit of being
able to listen to somethingwhile you're doing dishes or
whatever.
But I also think, and I reallybelieve that there is an
intrinsic value in sitting yourass down and looking at a page

(26:15):
and reading words with youreyes.
It's different.
It's different than an audiobookcuz you're not doing it while
you're driving, you're not doingit while you're doing dishes.
You're not it.
An and thing.
It's what you're doing and

Tali (26:28):
I think there's a difference.
What about people like me?
Like when I was a kid, I wouldread something and you would
have to, you, if you asked mewhat it was about, I wouldn't be
able to tell you.
Yeah.
I wasn't able to retain what Iwas reading.

Cody (26:40):
Yeah.
And absolutely.
I think that refers to learningstyles like you're talking
about.
I just, my point is that it'sdifferent and I think some
people equate it too easily.
Like, oh, why read it when I canjust listen to it at two x?
Cuz I can listen to it fasterthan I can read.
It's like, well, okay, that'sone benefit, but I still think
you're missing somethingsometimes when you're not

(27:00):
actually reading the words.
And there's studies done onthis, I'll link to it in the
show notes that I just heardabout recently of the retention
rate of writing down somethingafter you've heard it or read
it.
It goes way up.
And we've been taught this foryears, but they actually did
studies on it and kind offigured out some of the
mechanisms involved.
Interesting.
And it's because you're using,when you hand write it, by the

(27:22):
way, this is not like typingnotes.
Mm-hmm.
When you hand write, there's,it's, it goes back to the
racquetball thing we weretalking about and hopefully
that's on this podcast and notthe one we just trashed cuz I
can't remember if we brought itup twice.
Damn.
I really don't know.
But it was this one.
But there's a hand-eyecoordination involved in
writing, actual writing, like ina journal.

(27:43):
So if you read a chapter andthen you give yourself a little
summary, even if it's just likethree or four takeaway
sentences, but you hand writeit, you're more, that
information is more likely tostick.
And it has to do with the factthat you're using hand eye
coordination, dexterity, andrepeating it back to yourself.
Yeah.
That tells your brain that thisis important.

Tali (28:04):
So that's how I used to take notes in college, like
through my textbooks.
I would just have notebooks thatI would write things down and
just like you were saying, butit would actually be word for
word of like key concepts.
Mm-hmm.
It's such a slow process.
Yeah.
It's such a slow process andunfortunately in school,
deadlines are all

Cody (28:25):
over the place.
Well, and I think there's alittle different aspect to that
because if, because I used to dothat too.
One reason I would cut down thetime that it took to do a
lesson, I was, I remember we'dhave a science book and we're
like, the assignment is to readthe chapter and then answer the
eight questions that are at theend of the chapter.
Mm-hmm.
Well, what I would do is I'dflip to the end and I would look

(28:46):
at the eight questions and knowit to look for, and then I would
like skim the fuck outta thatchapter to look for the answers
to those eight questions.
Oh.
And then I would write downthose and just kind of memorize
those.
And that worked pretty well forme.
But there's, when you're writingdown key concepts as you read,
that's a little different thanwhat I was just saying.
Cuz what I was saying is, causeit's after the facts.
Right.

Tali (29:06):
But that's with the hope that you can retain

Cody (29:08):
what you read.
But that's the recall.
So if you just read it and thenyou write a small summary for
yourself, that's your firstinstance of recall.
And the more you recallsomething, the more likely it is
to stick.

Tali (29:20):
Well, it's a shame you weren't my teacher, I just went
years and years, like even intocollege you know, having a
really hard time finishing bookson time.
Mm-hmm.
And then I remember takingclasses that were on short
stories and that was much moremy, it was a lot more
successful.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Cody (29:40):
So I, I think.
Not to just like sum up thiswhole podcast early, cuz we
haven't even gone into some ofthese ideas yet, but exploring
different learning styles.
I, there's two ways to thinkabout it.
One is like, well what is mylearning style?
I think you asked me that.
Like I did, what is yourlearning style?
And I think that's valuable toexperiment with different modes.

(30:02):
You know, maybe some people doretain more with an audiobook
than reading it or whatever.
But I think it's good toexperiment with lots of
different learning styles, evenif you already know like, oh,
this one is my primary, this oneis the way I absorb

Tali (30:21):
information.
So like to be CrossFit with yourlearning styles.

Cody (30:24):
Yeah.
Well, and it kind of relates tothat brain plasticity that we
were talking about.
Mm-hmm.
You, you become less rigid.
You might be able to see thingsfrom different points of view,
different.
Aspects of a concept might stickif you're learning it in
different ways.

Tali (30:39):
Sure.
And there's, they all probablysupport each other.
Yeah.

Cody (30:42):
:And kind of build on each other.
And, and I love, I love, I knowyou love it when I bring up
Bible verses, but the ApostlePaul in the Bible was talking
about being able to preach.
And there's this segment that Ithink is kind of a valuable
lesson for anybody who has anykind of communication that they
want to provide to the world,which is he was instructing his

(31:09):
followers to be everything toeveryone.
And what he meant by that, in,in that particular instance, was
they were talking about like Ithink they were criticizing him
for like hanging out with richpeople who, who like killed
Jesus or whatever or hanging outwith like people from a brothel
or whatever.
And like he was being judged forthe company he was keeping.
And his response was, well, Ineed to be everything to

(31:30):
everyone so that I cancommunicate to more people.
Because if I only hang out witha certain type of person, I'm
only gonna know how to relateand talk to that one type of
person.

Tali (31:40):
That reminds me of the movie we watched last night.
We watched Milk, which was aboutHarvey Milk.
Who what was he on the boardfor?
City Supervision is what theywere calling him.
City Supervisors in the 1970s inSan Francisco.
And he led a lot of legislationaround gay rights.

(32:03):
And in terms of his, like hisstrategy, he had to really open
up beyond his kind of favoredcommunity because you need more
people to back you than just whoyou identify with.
Right.
It's not enough to win acampaign.
Yeah.

Cody (32:23):
And nowadays, I think the term that is referenced a lot of
is an echo chamber.
Yeah.
Because Google and Facebook andall these I would say, I'm gonna
call them early technologies inour internet era.
They, I, I actually believe thatinitially they thought this was
just useful.
That it was, they were providinga better product by trying to

(32:46):
predict what you wanted byproviding the results they
thought you were wanting to see.
What they inadvertently do isthey cause you to take on a
worldview that's very myopic,and that's one reason for a lot
of the divisiveness that we havein western culture of left and

(33:07):
right and Republican andDemocrat and progressive and
conservative and all this likered and blue war that's going
on.
It's the thing that struck methe most about.
The whole Covid thing, and I'mnot gonna get all controversial
here, I don't think this is acontroversial thing to say, but
I would see posts from people onthe left, for instance, who were

(33:28):
like, I just can't understandhow anybody could think of this
certain way.
And I'd see people on the rightsaying the same thing.
I can't understand how anybodyon the left could possibly
believe what they're saying.
And it's like, how can you notunderstand that that person that
you're criticizing is only beingexposed to information that

(33:49):
backs up their worldview?
Yeah.
We all need to recognize thatbecause it's really fucking
critical when you're, it is, itis.

Tali (33:56):
If you ignore that component, you're not seeing it
for what
it

Cody (33:59):
is.
And it's the same with even my,you know, voluntary friends who
are outside of both of thosepolitical spheres and still
criticizing people like, how canyou be.
Locked into this status cult,you know?
And it's like, yeah, I get whatyou're saying, but you don't
understand that that's allthey're exposed to.
That's all they see.
That's all their feed showsthem.

(34:19):
That's all the Google andFacebook and whatever media
they're on.
It doesn't matter if you'relooking at a smartphone, it's
showing you what it thinks youwant in order to keep you on
there and engaged.
Yeah, there's a lot ofreinforcement.
And so it's not only reinforcingyour beliefs, it's also making
the opposite of your beliefslook like buffoons or hatred or

(34:41):
idiots or whatever.
Yeah.
Because that's what keeps youlocked in.
And man, if we could just allrecognize that, I think it would
go a long way toward progressbecause debating the aspects of
covid, lockdowns, whatever,that, that's not the whole point
of what I'm saying.
My my point though is that youhave to recognize the people who

(35:01):
are opposing you.
They're not.
Fucking idiots.
It's that they are exposed to aliteral different reality than
what you're exposed to.

Tali (35:09):
And language is so important.
And I think during Covid, I wasvery intent on saying, or
starting my sentences with, frommy perspective, from my
experience.
Mm-hmm.
As opposed to just saying thingsas if they were true.

Cody (35:25):
And I think that's one reason I'm pointing this out, is
I know that you would prefacethat, but then you'd still get
backlash because people justgloss over that, you know, they
gloss over the fact that youprefaced it by saying, this is
my point of view, myperspective.
They only took the, the secondpart of what you were saying,
and then would push back on it.

(35:47):
Well, here's why that's nottrue.
And then rant on a bunch ofnonsense.
It's frustrating.
I think that this podcast, whatwe're talking about in exploring
different learning styles, mightactually be a tool to break free
from that myopic viewpoint too,of the information that we're
being fed.

Tali (36:07):
Absolutely.
It's the same thing that we weretalking about with personal
training.
Mm-hmm.
Like you are zoning in, ifyou're only using one means of
getting your information, onlyone means of learning new
information.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah.
It's a trap in a lot ofdifferent realms.

Cody (36:24):
Yeah.
And I think a lot of people too,they, they hear that and they
think, well, I get my news froma lot of different sources.
It's five different networks ontv.
You know, it's like, well,that's not.
They're all the same.
Sorry.
They're, and

Tali (36:36):
same with, yeah.
Have you seen those?
We've seen those videos wherethey're like layering them
saying the same thing on top ofeach other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's all,

Cody (36:43):
it's all scripted and it's so creepy.
And social media is kind of thesame thing.
I, so when I say differentplaces of information, I'm like,
remember what libraries are.
I mean, there's nope, there'slike a there's ways to have
experiential knowledge to go outand have conversations face to
face.

Tali (37:01):
Well, that was really important to me at the time, was
to stay offline.
Yeah.
And to really interact with ourcommunity and like, what is it
actually like here?
Yeah.
Cuz it's interesting what'sactually happening here.
Well, and when you, that'swhat's relevant to us.

Cody (37:17):
Yeah.
And when you act, when youinteract with people face to
face, there's nuance when youact, interact with people.
Oh yeah.
On social media, it's just thempre like, They're thinking about
the response ahead of time.
So they're formulating there'sno creativity.
Yeah.
They're formulating this perfectresponse to like, shut you down

(37:38):
or whatever, and, and thenspewing it at you in a DM or a
tweet or whatever.
And then the other person'sresponse to that is to defend
what they were already saying byformulating their perfect
response.
And so they're trying to outdoeach other in like having the
ultimate answer to life andeverything.
The university.

(37:58):
And it's not really aconversation at that point,
isn't it?
No.
But when you're face-to-face,that's not how people
communicate.
We, we communicate with.
The thoughts that are arising asthey're arising and the, that
brings out nuances in theconversation.

Tali (38:12):
Plus, well, and there's also incentive to be nice, to be
nice and also to dig deeper, totry to ask for clarification or
understanding of like where isthat thought coming from?
Yeah.
Where online has this kind oflike, it's all packaged up
perfect.
And sent.
And there's also something aboutwriting that feels very
permanent.
Like you can't take it back.

(38:33):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
You know, people are so seldomto do that in person already,
you know, to apologize or to sayI was wrong.
You know, once it's written,it's written, you know?
Yeah.
There's something in myeyelashes and I can't figure out
what it is.
It feels like a cat hair course.
I

Cody (38:50):
would say that's a good guess.
At any, any point in our lives,two cats are, have a multiplying
effect over one cat.
Yeah.
Little, little knowledge nuggetfor all of you listening.
So one thing I didn't get to onthis recording cuz we, we did on
the first recording that did nottake, is exploring some of the

(39:12):
different learning styles from acoach's perspective.
Mm-hmm.
And what I used to do early onin my first certification was
through National Academy ofSports Medicine and I, that some
of this may have been taughtthere, I'm not sure where I
picked it up, but to categorizecoaching styles in, into, sort
of put it in different buckets.

(39:33):
So you've got a tactile teachingstyle where you're actually
touching the person and, andgetting them into the right
position or, or.
Touching their spinal erectorsand saying like, I want you to
feel stiff right here.
You know, I want you to feelthis tension

Tali (39:46):
or like, press into my hand or, yeah,

Cody (39:48):
exactly.
However, yeah, exactly.
I use that one a lot or, yeah,like for an overhead lockout,
that's a really good one.
It's like they've got PVC pipeand they're sort of like floaty
and like a flag in the wind andthey're just sort of like, you
know, wavy, like one of thoseinflatable guides outside the
used car lots, you know?
And so you might go up and likehold, pull down on the bar, pull
down on the PVC pipe and like I,you know, I want you to like

(40:10):
push against in push.
Yeah.
Your elbows shouldn't bend, yourshoulders shouldn't collapse.
So that's tactile verbal is whatI just did.
I just described what that wouldbe like.
Mm-hmm.
And then visual would bedemonstrating that and showing
the alignment and the lockoutthat you want.
Ideally

Tali (40:24):
you're doing multiple at once.
Yeah.
And that's what was so fun aboutcoaching together is that I
could be your demo girl and youwould explain things.
Or, or the

Cody (40:34):
other way around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or one of us can provide tactilecues to one person in the room
who's not getting it outta, thatwas 15 people.
Right.
And one person could go over andjust like, like offer them some
tactile cues while the otherperson's explaining.
It's really cool to co-coachwith you.
More to come, babe.
Yeah.
But in my level two CrossFitcertification, they actually

(40:55):
broke those down in a reallyvisceral way by making you go
through this drill where you'rein a group of three or four
people and each of the, you'reteaching the same movement to
like the fourth person.
And the first person can onlyuse verbal, and the second
person can only use tactile,poor, tactile person only used.
Yeah.
That sounds so hard.

(41:16):
It is.
I mean, it, it kind of is, butYeah, especially if you don't
already know what the movementis, I guess.
But we would be, for instance,like coaching a squat and we're
all teaching the same movement,but having to only exclusively
use three different coachingstyles or communication styles
there.
I think it's most effective whenyou can do it all.

(41:37):
Yeah.
I think you can also break downeach of those categories into
different styles too, becausesome people can learn verbally,
but they need more of like avisual cue, like break the floor
apart with your feet.
Totally.
You know, and other people youcan just say, push your knees
apart from each other, and theyget, and they get the same

(41:57):
thing.
Right.
And one of'em is more likeinstructional, like, do this and
then they just do it.
I love working.
A lot of times young athletesare really good at this cuz you
can tell them to do something.
Do it.
People who have not worked outfor 30 or 40 years and they come
in and it's like, okay, you needyou, you don't know what it
feels like to do what I'm askingyou to do.
Sure.

(42:17):
So then you have to be a littlemore descriptive.
And so even like on a verbalaspect, I think there's
different categories of how youcan verbally coach.
Same with tactile.
We were just using a coupledifferent examples cuz you
might, you might touch a certainarea of their body.
Like I want you to feelengagement here.
Another method that's used a lotis like, hold somebody's back

(42:40):
and say, you know, I want you tomaintain this position and then
pull back on their shoulders.
And so you're, you're almostlike pushing them into their
proper, this position inposition giving them feedback.
You know, I want you to pushagainst my hands, that kind of
thing.
So those are all different kindsof tactile cues.
So I guess what I mean is thiscan be a really deep rabbit
hole.
And even with demonstration,like demonstration, you might be

(43:01):
able to show.
A certain position.
You also might be able to, like,sometimes I'm, I I'll tell
people like, I'm gonna pretendlike this is heavy and I'm
showing them with a wooden dowelor something.
Mm-hmm.
But I'll kind of use a littlebit of acting technique, I
guess, to like Totally, yeah.
To like really like emphasizethe, the strain, like where I

(43:23):
want you to feel that and wherethe tension is in your body.
And I'm like slapping my ownbelly, like, I'm really tight
right here, you know, and thatkind of thing.
So that's visual, but it's adifferent kind of visual than
like demonstrating the movement.

Tali (43:35):
I'm gonna have to really think about incorporating this
into my training this upcomingweek.
Mm-hmm.
Because I feel very spoiled bymy client, you know, she catches
on really quick.
Yeah.
And I don't have to really use alot of that queuing, but you're
absolutely right that thoseskills can really atrophy if
we're not using them.

(43:56):
And we certainly have, it's.
It's been some time since youand I have worked in a proper
gym.

Cody (44:02):
We don't own a proper gym.

Tali (44:04):
I'd say no, but we're on the way.

Cody (44:08):
We're directionally correct, honey.
Yes.
So I think this is a little bitof a meta podcast like we're
talking about.
Is it?
Yeah, we're, cuz we're talkingabout various learning styles
and we're talking about how,we've mentioned how if you don't
utilize those as a coach, theystart to atrophy.
But I think as just people whoare interested in learning and
growing and remaining sharp andindependent and useful all of

(44:32):
our lives, like, I don't, I'mnot really interested in growing
old the way people grew oldthree generations ago.
I'm just not interested in it.
I don't wanna you participate inthat.
How do you Because it's, it's,it's, for a long time it was
just accepted that hey, by thetime you get to 60 things are
gonna start falling apart.
And by the time you get to 70,you're gonna start forgetting

(44:52):
why you went into the kitchen.
Like you're gonna go walk inthere and be like, whoa, what am
I doing here?
And that's just how people age.
And I call bullshit.
I call bullshit because I thinkmost of that is lifestyle.
I know there's some genetics.
I know that, you know, I'm not,I'm not trying to like shame
anyone who has a disease or hasgotten ill or suffering from

(45:15):
dementia.
That's not my intention to likeshame people.
I'm just saying I think that weare on the cusp of knowing
better Absolutely.
Of how to deal with that.
So that absolutely.
Like if you're 30 today, if youare interested in this kind of
thing, if you are interested in.
Continuing to improve andcontinuing to be vital and, and
live an exciting and likefulfilling life and a self-exam

(45:38):
life.
Well

Tali (45:38):
used some really great words just before you said
useful autonomous.
Yeah.
And something else.
It was like vital,

Cody (45:44):
like, like you feel alive, you know?
And Yeah, like our company iscalled Live All Your Life.
This podcast is called Live AllYour Life.
And if you're the type of personwho's interested in living,
really living all your life, ifyou're in your thirties right
now, I don't think you have muchof an excuse to decline in the
way that our grandparents did.
Like they didn't know better.

(46:07):
But I think we know better now.
I think that it's a, it issimply use it or lose it.
Yeah.
And so the reason I say this iskind of a meta podcast is like,
yeah.
It's, it's one thing to, topoint out that people have
different learning styles andalso if you are wanting to teach
or communicate with people, youneed to learn to communicate in
various styles.
Sure.

(46:27):
But I think it's also justsomething that we should all.
If we're interested in remainingsharp and growing long term,
then we should, I'm gonna usethe word ooh, not ot.
Should ot.
Same thing one

Tali (46:43):
sounds Chevy.

Cody (46:45):
I think that it's in our best interests Ooh, better to
explore lots of differentlearning styles within ourself,
even if we've already identifiedwhere our

Tali (46:55):
strength, strength is.
Strength there.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, you and I are doingCrossFit again and obviously
having done CrossFit for manyyears before I did
weightlifting, I was able tofigure out that strength is
something that comes verynaturally to me and something
that I can excel in much morereadily than say, running or

(47:15):
gymnastics.
And you know, here we are againdoing CrossFit all, you know,
retraining all of those groovesthat I know I certainly let go
of for many years.
Mm-hmm.
To make way for one.

Cody (47:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sort of, I'm not surprised,but it's a little eye-opening, a
little revealing sometimes whenI go to practice a certain skill
that I used to just be able tosort of demo for a class fairly
easily, and I'm like, Ooh, thisis either really hard or not
even possible.
Like there's a few skills that Ireally need to get back and

Tali (47:50):
I'm gonna venture to guess that what you can't do, I can
do.
And what I can't do, you can

Cody (47:55):
do except muscle ups neither one of us have right
now.
Mm-hmm.
But

Tali (47:59):
I'm just, well, I can't imagine teaching those anytime
soon to anyone.

Cody (48:04):
I guess my point is I'm looking at 50 years soon, you
know, and I'm looking 50.
It's interesting because 50 I,we tend to think of as
middle-aged, and I think itmight be because of the way
technology is life expectancyis, is, is increasing and all
that.
Yeah.
And I might depend on that abit.

(48:25):
But in today's world, 50 is notmiddle-aged.
Like I hit middle-aged 50 islike, woo, second wind.
Well, no, I'm sayingstatistically, I hit middle-aged
15 years ago.
Like you're almost middle-aged.
Oh, oh.
Like the average person.
Only this.
Okay.
I

Tali (48:39):
was, I was thinking this was going a

Cody (48:40):
really different route.
No, the, like, I don't, I forgetwhat the average ages are now.
Like we can look it up and putit in the show notes or
whatever.
It's quick, quick internetsearch.
But what is it?
68, 72?
It's not that.
Oh, it's not.
That's that's low.
I know.
I mean, you know, in my familyit's low.
You know, a lot of people whomight make it to 80, but that's
not an average, like an averageis like, My point is, is I'm way

(49:01):
past middle age, statisticallyspeaking, and I'm like, I, I
want to get these skills backand try to hold onto them as
long as I can.

Tali (49:09):
I did a cartwheel at work the other day just to see if I
still got it.
I've never been able to do acart.
Alyssa was saying the same thingtoo, and I was like, I could
bust one out right now.
And I immediately felt it in mywrists when I did it.
Yeah.
But it was beautiful.
I saw the video.
I love doing cartwheels, butlike I have not done one in
three years.

Cody (49:30):
Yeah.
You better just spend more timeon your hands first before you
start like flipping over ontothem.
We've done a couple of

Tali (49:36):
handstand pushup workouts recently and it's like very
instantaneous.
You're not like staying upsidedown or anything, but

Cody (49:43):
you got momentum on your side.
Yes.
One other thing that makes thisa bit of a meta podcast is we
had a whole podcast on teachingonce and the benefits of
learning by teaching.
Yes.
And I think that you can kind oflisten to that podcast and this
one in conjunction with eachother because teaching other

(50:06):
people is a f is a learningstyle.
Yes.
Like you and I have found thatthat's one of our strongest
learning styles is when we candistill something enough to
teach it to somebody else, weunderstand it better ourselves.

Tali (50:18):
Absolutely.
Having to pass it along.
Yeah.
In an effective way.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (50:22):
And I think that's probably true for most people.
I would think that that's kindof a universal thing because I
think in order, in order todevelop the skill of being able
to teach something, you reallyhave to know what the hell
you're teaching to explain.
You could be really shitty atteaching, but that's my point
then you might not know it aswell as you think.
I think it was some famousscientists, I don't know if it

(50:42):
was Einstein or feineman, one ofthose famous ones was saying
that like, you don't really knowa concept unless you can teach
it to a second grader.
Hmm.
And I thought that wasinteresting cuz these are like,
that's very specific, theseamazing physicists who, you
know, had these world changingideas and they're saying like,

(51:02):
if you can't describe it to achild, then you probably don't
understand it as well as youthink you do.

Tali (51:07):
Do you remember in the movie that we watched this
weekend, the Dig where BasilBrown talks about one of the
books that he wrote, which isto, is like essentially like a
astronomy for dummies.
Mm-hmm.
I thought that was pretty cool.
Yeah.
Kind of sounds like the conceptyou're saying now.
And.
I think, I think that makes alot of sense that if you're able

(51:30):
to simplify and distill reallyadvanced understanding to be
able to pass it along tosomebody else who doesn't have
that background.
Mm-hmm.
That's major.

Cody (51:40):
Yeah.
And then if, if you bundle thatidea with what we're talking
about as far as learning stylesand just ask yourself like, how
many, how many different ways,how many different ways could I
teach this?
Yeah.
Then I think that's really goingto solidify a concept for
yourself.
So even if you're, you're justsort of selfishly wanting to
learn something new, whetherit's a skill or a fitness

(52:01):
ability or some intellectualconcept thinking about ways that
you could teach it to otherpeople in various forms, I think
could be a, a really coolapproach for, for being able to
really dial in a new skill orconcept.

Tali (52:16):
Well, it benefits everybody.
Yeah.
It allows you to have more reachand to be able to teach more
people.
And you yourself are.
Developing your own skills tocommunicate a single idea in
multiple ways.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, talking about all thebenefits, of course.
I had a note here that, youknow, it's important to know
yourself and to know the, theways that you learn the best.

(52:39):
And I think if you ever findyourself in a situation where
maybe that isn't available toyou, it could be really
interesting to pose, pose thatrequest to somebody who's
teaching you.
Like, can you, can you say thatdifferently?
Or maybe not even teaching, butlike when you're talking to
people, we often forget that wedon't all have the same

(53:02):
backgrounds.
We don't all have the samelanguage, we don't all have the
same beliefs.
And I often joke about howpeople are sorely mistaken when
they forget that.
Mm-hmm.
And think that no matter whatthey say is just gonna fly with
whoever is around because.
They just think everyone elsethinks like them.

(53:22):
And I think asking forclarification is something that
people don't do a lot.
We make assumptions about whatpeople are saying or we fill in
the gaps or, you know mm-hmm.
Sum them up as a person and likecome to conclusions of what we
think they're meaning.

Cody (53:39):
Yeah.
Which is a logical fallacycalled the strawman argument.
And is that what that is?
Yeah.
What the strawman is like you,you take somebody's nuanced
opinions and ideas and youdistill it down to a single
concept that's easily defeated.
So you build a strawman model ofwhat they're trying to get
across, and then you've set thaton fire.

(54:01):
It's easy.
The opposite to that would be asteelman argument, and usually
what the steelman argument is.
Let's say I disagree withsomething that you are saying.
For me to be able to try toadvocate for your point, the one
I disagree with in the mosteffective way possible, helps me

(54:24):
to understand you better.
Sure.
It helps you to know that Iunderstand you better.
Sure.
And if I can defeat the steelmanargument, then I kind of win.
Like it's, it's like a, it'slike a, you can't logically
escape.
It's like if we both agree thatwe have made them soundest
argument possible for thisconcept and then I defeat it
with some logical principleafter that, it's like, well, we

(54:46):
both have to agree now that youprobably write on this.
Hmm.
And so a steelman argument is aninteresting way of creating
empathy, understanding, but alsomaybe even o overcoming an idea
that's not accurate.
It's funny cuz I feel,

Tali (55:02):
well it's just like you're really putting in the work to.
Engage in the conversation or toengage in the debate, whereas,
yeah.
And so people are just waitingfor their turn to talk.

Cody (55:12):
Yeah.
So few people do that.
So, yeah, I mean, hardly anybodydoes that as far as creating a
steelman argument.
And it's funny cuz Lex Friedman,one of my favorite podcasters,
he asks that question a lot,probably almost every interview,
which question?
Well, if some controversialtopic comes up, they're like,
can you steel man an argumentthat's opposed to what you've
been saying?
Mm-hmm.

(55:32):
And it's funny because a lot ofpeople will act like they
respect the question and they'relike, oh, that's great.
And then they dodge it, theydon't really do it.
Huh.
And it's, it's really, it'shard.
It's hard to look at at an ideathat you oppose and then try to

(55:53):
argue for it for a moment.

Tali (55:55):
Well, obviously that's not something we're accustomed to
doing.
Mm-hmm.
We're all about defense.
As a culture, I'd say, yeah,well right.
Stick to your own, stick to yourguns.

Cody (56:05):
And it's not just a cultural thing either.
I think some of it's anevolutionary thing because okay.
A lot of times we think, a lotof us think that we are rational
beings, but we are actually arationalizer beings different.
Very different.
We have an emotional, Irationalize their rational.
You.
Yes.
We have an emotional decisionmaking mechanism and then we

(56:26):
find ways to rationalize why wemade that decision.
Which is different than beingrational.
It's backwards.
Yes.
Yeah.
And that's just kind of howhuman brains work.
So to be rational takes it takesfucking work.
It takes effort.
It takes well

Tali (56:41):
and it takes, it takes an intention.
Stuffing your ego away, don't itFor sure.
Yeah.
And you really have to look atthings objectively and probably
means you're gonna have torecruit some help.
Mm-hmm.
Cuz there's probably so muchthat we just can't see even if
we tried on our own.
Yeah.

Cody (56:55):
Yeah.

Tali (56:59):
Well, you had mentioned something about your learning
style being experiential.
Hmm.
And I wanted to take a similaridea out, into, out of the gym
and talk about like, learningjust life lessons as a person
for a really long time, Iwould've characterized myself as
somebody who not only learnedlessons the hard way, but wanted

(57:22):
to you know, I think it's reallynormal that in your adolescent
or in your early twenties, likehe make really expensive
mistakes or you learn a lot oflessons the hard way and like
suffer a lot of heartbreak oryou know, Torment.

(57:45):
I don't know.
I'm trying to think of thingsspecifically, but for a long
time I kind of identified assomeone who wanted to learn
lessons the hard way.
Like I think being defiant issomething that I almost admire.
Mm-hmm.
And when I, and I kind ofdefault to it, and I would say

(58:08):
like more recently in life, Iactually listen to advice to try
to avoid some of those thingsthat I mentioned before that are
like very challenging to comeback from.
And I don't know if it's just amatter of age or of ego or what,
but you know, I actually ask foradvice now or before I did not

(58:30):
care for anybody else's advice.
I wanted to just learn in my ownway.
And I think that that's valuablein a lot of ways.
You know, there are a lot ofmistakes or experiences that I
don't care to repeat because Ilearned very potently that those
are harmful decisions to make orhurtful in the long run where I

(58:54):
think now I can be a little bitmore self-protective in a
different way.
Like you and I have talked a lotabout self-preservation and a
lot of ways that we as youngpeople really hid from, you
know, embarrassment or ridiculeor whatever it was.
But this is self-preservation ina different way.

(59:15):
This is like actually out ofadvocating for thriving.
Mm-hmm.
Which is very different mm-hmm.
Than what I had previouslymentioned.
So that was just something thatcame to mind.

Cody (59:26):
I think it's probably one thing that drew you and I to
each other is that we're boththat way, we're both a bit of
rebel.
Black sheep defiant type people.

Tali (59:36):
Well, we just jump in with both feet.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
I say it all the time, evenstill, that I don't wanna make
assumptions about things.
I wanna experience them and thenhave a an informed decision.
Mm-hmm.
Or an informed idea aroundsomething.
Yeah.
And that can be kind ofreckless, like that can get you
in some trouble.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.

Cody (59:54):
It's really uncomfortable sometimes too in a more
structured way.
It can be really uncomfortable.
I think you and I gravitatetoward that just in our
day-to-day interactions and theway we carry ourselves out.
But to reel it into a morestructured, tangible example is
in some recent businessmentoring that we've gotten,
there was.

(01:00:16):
Part of our business mentoringprogram is that he, there's some
curriculum that they havemm-hmm.
Almost like a course that we cantake along with their actual
coaching of our individual needsin our business.
It's very thorough.
It's very cool.
And however, there's this, likea couple of chapters of, or
couple of modules of the coursethat had to do with marketing.

(01:00:37):
And I blew through them in abouta week and a half.
I just really, under theguidance of our mentor, he's
like, you just get through thisas fast as you can so you know
what's going on, and then we'llstart your marketing.
And to be honest, I, it was,it's an interesting thing
because I understood everythingas I was reading it and watching
videos.

(01:00:58):
Interesting enough, it's liketwo different learning styles.
Sure.
In the same thing they have,like, you read it and then you
watch a video on it.
Aren't they the same verbatim?
Not always, but pretty much.
Pretty much.
And very close when they're not.
And so I did all that and I wentthrough all that curriculum.
It wasn't till we actuallystarted the marketing and I
started getting prospectconversations going that I

(01:01:21):
understood anything about what Ihad read before.
Like I thought I wasunderstanding it as I was
reading it, but then as I waspracticing it and doing it, I
was like, oh, that's, this isway simpler, first of all, than
it seemed.
Sure.
That's great and it all makessense and I understand what each
step is for, and I get the, allthe concept, everything gelled,

(01:01:44):
everything gelled when I did it,even though I thought that I had
known what was up just byreading it.
And I think it's a reallyvaluable lesson for people to,
like, I'm a, I'm a big advocatefor reading books like you
should.
I think everyone should have areading habit if they care to be
a type of person who's likegrowing and thriving.

(01:02:05):
Read some non-fiction, somepersonal development stuff, like
be in the game, like belearning.
But if you're not, Actuallypracticing and applying the
things that you're learning.
You only, it's all theoretical.
You only think you know what youread.
Yeah.
You don't really get it untilyou put it into practice.
And it doesn't matter what itis.
And that's some, just somethingthat I've learned I think in

(01:02:27):
recent years or at the age thatI'm at, is that it's easy to
want, avoid those kind ofthings.
Just like what we started thisconversation with was whether
you wanna be the model or thedrawer.
Mm.
Is way uncomfortable to be theperson drawing.
But I also know that thinkingabout drawing, watching people

(01:02:49):
draw, listening to theinstructor in the class isn't
doing a fucking thing for meunless I pick up the pencil and
put it on the paper.
And so you have to do theuncomfortable part of taking
action for any learning to bemeaningful.
Yeah.
In any way.

(01:03:10):
Like we're.
I really despise the analogythat we are just like computers
in meat sack because ew, we areso much more than that.
And I think that moving yourbody and, and taking action and
actually doing activities is theway that we experience the
universe.
Like that's the reality.

(01:03:30):
Like everything happening in ourhead is just, is fleeting and
it's subjective.
And until you put it intopractice, you're not really
learning anything.
And certainly it's not gonnastick.
Even if you do understand aconcept fully, if you don't
actually put it into practiceand do anything with it, it's,
you're gonna be three bookslater.
You're not gonna rememberanything you read from that

(01:03:52):
previous book.

Tali (01:03:53):
What does that mean for ai?

Cody (01:03:56):
What do you mean?

Tali (01:03:59):
Will AI be able to experience.

Cody (01:04:03):
That's actually a good question.
That actually is funny that youwould ask that because Lex
Friedman asked, asked the samething on the podcast.
I was listening today.
Did he?
I'll link to it in the shownotes since I'm bringing a
specific episode up.
Cuz he's interviewing forget theguy's name right now, but he's
the c e o of chat, g p t.
And he asks, you know, likewill, what they call agi, which

(01:04:27):
is like artificial generalintelligence, what's the
difference?
Artificial general intelligencewould be like something that we
might consider conscious, like anew life form a a type of AI
that's so advanced that it canthink and, and evolve on its own
in a way that might.
Conscious.

(01:04:48):
The name doesn't lend to that atall.
Well, specific artificialintelligence is the op opposite
of that.
And it's basically a type ofcomputer program that can
outthink a human, but only in avery narrow line.
Okay.
And they've had that for withinparameters?
Yeah.
And they've had that for like 20years because big Blue I think
is the one, I forget, they, theyall kind of run together right

(01:05:09):
now, but the artificialintelligence was able to beat
the Grand Chess master of theworld.
Like, oh my, he beat the, andnow they have computer programs
who can beat the best at Go,which is even more complicated.
Mm.
Cool.
But you can't ask that samecomputer like, what's a Nike

(01:05:31):
shoe look like?
Like they don't know.
It doesn't know anything exceptchess or it doesn't know
anything, but go.
Got it.
Those are specific artificialintelligence as well.

Tali (01:05:38):
I feel like general should be changed to like unleashed.
Sure.
Or boundless.

Cody (01:05:44):
So anyway, general sounds blah, but the question was like,
does for that AGI to achieveconsciousness, does it need to
be like in a robot body orsomething that can experience
like a physical, have an, havean experience in a, in a
physical world?
Yeah.

Tali (01:06:02):
That reminds me of her.
Yeah.
When they pair her with thatwoman's body.
Yeah.
I'm not exactly sure how thatworked though.

Cody (01:06:14):
Well it was just meant for him to be able to try to relate
to her better cuz he's stuck inthe physical world, so he'd be
able to relate to herphysically.
Got it.
I don't think she would, but shecouldn't.
Yeah.
I mean she would still just begetting like a bird's eye view,
so to speak, of

Tali (01:06:28):
so important question.
Mm-hmm.
I think was she faking it?

Cody (01:06:31):
Well that's the whole debate, right?
Like we, there's no way for usto know this, but it's an
interesting question.
There's

Tali (01:06:39):
no way for us to know this.

Cody (01:06:40):
There's als Well, not at this point, I don't think.
Cuz nobody, even the people whoare creating these artificial
intelligences don't know like

Tali (01:06:50):
how, I hate that.
Hate

Cody (01:06:51):
that so much.
How would we know whenconsciousness is?
You should know you made itachieve.
No, but it's not one person.
It's

Tali (01:06:59):
not like, that's the scary part is like these people are
just creating shit.
Like who knows what

Cody (01:07:03):
it's capable of.
Yeah.
It's not one person in a shoeshop making shoes.
It's like a team of people withvarious skills all coming
together and creating somethinglarger than they ever could on
their own.
And so nobody really knows likehow certain aspects of it are
working.

Tali (01:07:18):
That sounds really irresponsible, don't you think?
Like, did any of that come up inthe the Absolutely Podcast in
terms of like, is this moral,

Cody (01:07:28):
that's the main theme of the whole podcast.
So what did they come to?
What was through listening to itall yet?
But I don't think an answer.
I don't think there is ananswer.
I think the only answer is it's,there will always be people who
are competitive with otherpeople.
And because of that technologywill always be improving because

(01:07:50):
of the, of this nature that wehave of cooperation and
competition.
And that sort of likeequilibrium, okay, means that
humans invent shit.
That's just what we do.
It's like, it's what we'vealways done.
And because it's that way,because that's sort of like an
evolutionary trait of humans ina way.

(01:08:10):
Technology is inevitable.
Whether we understand it oragree with it or not, it's kind
of a moot point.
It's fucking coming.

Tali (01:08:18):
You said it, you said just the thing that like irks me the
most, which is like we just haveto accept it as inevitability.
I think that's such

Cody (01:08:26):
crap.
We what?
Are you gonna stop it?

Tali (01:08:30):
I don't see the point

Cody (01:08:31):
of it.
The only way to stop it would belike a nuclear holocaust or a
fucking comet hitting the earthor something that just like
resets everything that'sprobably coming.
That also could be inevitable.

Tali (01:08:42):
I'm more comfortable with that.

Cody (01:08:49):
I mean, what difference does it make?

Tali (01:08:54):
It's just so unnatural.
Like

Cody (01:08:57):
maybe it's not, maybe technology is natural.
Maybe that's just how theuniverse always evolves.
But don't you think it's

Tali (01:09:03):
also like just as much of a facade as like the Declaration
of Independence?
Mm-hmm.
Or no, maybe it's what they sayabout the government for the
people by the people.
Yeah, whatever.
One of those where that's areally nice sentiment at all,
but it's not, that's not true.

(01:09:24):
Right?
Yeah.
Like how does this benefichumankind, how?
Yes.
Are we encouraging people toread more books by having ais?

Cody (01:09:36):
Well, there's an article because there's a lot of

Tali (01:09:38):
horror movies that would say otherwise.

Cody (01:09:40):
I just read a short article on an ai Who, that I,
who, I'm amper, I can't say thatword, but you know, I'm putting
human qualities on a robot, butbecause it probably looks human.
No.
This one was actually fordetecting cancer and it was able
to detect breast cancer fouryears before it would've been
active.

(01:10:02):
What?
That's fucking amazing.
That's when you talk about earlydetection being like the, the
key to surviving cancer and thisAI was able to predict this
person had breast cancer before,like four years before
traditional like mammograms oranything would've been able to
detect.

Tali (01:10:20):
So is it de, is it actually detectable then if it's
Yeah.
It's

Cody (01:10:24):
like, it's like literally like a couple cells.
Wow.
Like as before it's even causingtumors problems.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So then it can easily beeradicated.
Like you asked what the benefitsare, like the certain types of,
of artificial intelligence couldmean I like the spec.
Really amazing things.

Tali (01:10:43):
Yeah.
The specific types I.
Sound great.
Yeah.
It's the ones that are justlike, nah, we'll see what
happens with it.
Well, hopefully it doesn'tfucking kill everybody.

Cody (01:10:53):
So here's some of the positive aspects of the, of the
general intelligence is thingslike nuclear fusion.
If, if we had nu nuclear fusionreactor reactors instead of
fission, like right now, nuclearpower plants are like breaking
apart atoms.
Right?
And it's, and it has all thiswaste and it's danger and

(01:11:15):
everything.
Well, fusion is what the sundoes.
It fuses atoms and there's a lotof energy produced, but it would
be sort of like unlimited, cheapenergy if humans knew how to
create a stable reactor on asmall scale that does the same
thing that the sun does.
Okay?
It's such a complex problem.
They've been working on this forprobably a hundred years, like

(01:11:37):
probably since.
The original people were workingon atomic energy of any kind and
they've not ever been able tofigure it out at, to reverse
this time, the process.
Yeah.
And so if an artificialintelligence can bring together
various forms of science andideas and concepts and
philosophies and be able tocreate nuclear fusion generators

(01:11:59):
for us, we would have unlimitedclean energy for like, forever.
Like as a species, we no morefossil fuels.
You wouldn't even have to havesolar panels, wind energy
nothing.
Like you wouldn't have to haveany other form of energy other
than these cuz they would be soin theory, so efficient and not
produce any waste.
So there's, there's an exampleof how general artificial

(01:12:21):
intelligence might seriouslychange things for us for the
better.
That sounds like cheating.

Tali (01:12:30):
I know.
I know that since it's made byman, that it is technically.
Advancement of man.
Mm-hmm.
Like, it's just as fair to saythat that is human advancement,
even through another channel.
Mm-hmm.
He's just so creepy.

(01:12:52):
I really wanna see iRobotthough, because I have been told
there's like an endearing twist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that might be helpful becausewhat the twist is, I don't know
for sure.
I just know that what isadvertised looks really scary
and that's what I think aboutwhen I think of AI and X Machina

(01:13:14):
and that new horror movie AIDoll thing that, do you remember
that one that I just, we watchedrecently, we watched the movie,
we watched the trailer.
I don't remember that.
And I was like, it's supposed tohelp with loneliness.
And it's like a fierce, defensercreepy doll.
It's, yeah.
It's like what's creepier than ahaunted doll?

Cody (01:13:35):
AI doll.
Well, D dystopia sells.

Tali (01:13:40):
Is it that dystopian though?
If it's like right around thefucking corner, it's like right
around the corner.

Cody (01:13:46):
You know how you can't watch Black Mirror because it
just creeps you out too much?
Yes.
The creator said that the reasonthey didn't continue making
series or episodes, he's like,well, it's all about to happen,
so there's just no point in likemaking any more of these.

Tali (01:14:00):
That's so terrible.
And so true.
Yeah.
Eek.
Yeah.
I mean, what even comes after

Cody (01:14:09):
that?
We don't know.
This is a new frontier

Tali (01:14:13):
like, but isn't it all moving faster and faster?
Like Absolutely.
Should our foresight for it be.
Yeah.
They

Cody (01:14:18):
were talking about how faster too, you know, iterations
of chat G P T have taken months.
And there will come a time whenthe technology is helping to
advance itself to the pointwhere it, you could get new
versions in days, like newiterations that are
exponentially smarter in, indays instead of

Tali (01:14:36):
months.
I just listened to our lastpodcast where you were talking
about your Commodore 64 mm-hmm.
And how you had to type in everysingle time.
Yeah.
All the code.
All the code.
Is it shocking to you what ishappening technologically in
your lifetime?
It

Cody (01:14:55):
sort of isn't, because I was such a technophile as a kid.
I was obsessed with Star Trek,the Next Generation.
Mm-hmm.
And so I kept expecting that tobe my, my future.
Like I thought Star Trek wasjust like, that's what it's
gonna be like when I grow up.
And I was kind of disappointedwhen it wasn't like, in some

(01:15:16):
ways it feels like it's takenfor fucking ever because.
The idea of like Elon Musk'slurk is working on Neurolink
right now, and mm-hmm.
One of the first applicationsthat they're gonna try to get
approval for, basically to beable to surgically implant a
chip into people's brains is tobe able to help paraplegics walk

(01:15:39):
again, because it'll basicallybypass the injury point of a
spinal cord injury and send thenerve signals back and forth
from the legs to the brain withcomputer components.
That would be amazing.
Yeah.
But the thing is, is that ideahas been talked about since I
was a little kid.
Hmm.
And so to be almost 50 years oldand it's like, it's still not

(01:16:02):
here, like it's still beingtalked about.
So sometimes I see things likethat and I'm like, it's taking
forever.
Everyone says all this shit islike right around the corner,
right around the corner, rightaround the corner.
Four decades later, fusion stillisn't a thing.
You know, spinal cord injuriesare still not recoverable.
Like there's, but still what

Tali (01:16:20):
a leap.
What a leap.
I always think about your dad,like watching your dad use a
smartphone.
Yeah.
That kind of wakes me up.
So, yeah, because mygrandparents, they all died
before smartphones were a thing.
Mm-hmm.
And so they never even got tosee it.
And I remember showing mygrandfather a CD player and like

(01:16:45):
that blew his mind.
Mm-hmm.
And that's after they had beenaround for a while.
You know, it's just wild to seeyour dad with the technology
that he has coming from thistown.
You know, the changes intechnology in that

Cody (01:17:02):
regard.
Yeah.
To clue you in while you'relistening to this.
We live in Wau County, Oregon,which in the 1950s when my dad
was a kid here this ispre-internet.
And in the 1950s there was onlycertain classes of people who
had televisions.
You know, like we see thingslike mad Men and we watch period

(01:17:28):
shows like that and it's showingeverybody with their record
players and their TVs andwhatever cars and everything.
And it's like, well, city folk.
Yeah.
Those are like upper middleclass city people who had that
at the exact same time, therewere people farming with horses
still.
Like my dad remembers the firsttractors that were being used in

(01:17:50):
this county.
Right.
And now he's on a smartphone.
Yeah.
And now he's got a, an iPhone.

Tali (01:17:56):
Man.
I would love for you to tell himabout, Chat.
G P T G P T.
Yeah.
I just like wanna see like, yourdad's actually pretty agile Oh
yeah.
In general.
So I don't think he would besurprised by it, but like I
would imagine if you told my momwho's like 16 years younger than

(01:18:17):
your dad, she'd be like, what?
I think it just depends if you,you know, if you keep yourself
exposed and mm-hmm.
You know, keep up on yourneuroplasticity and all that.
I, I,

Cody (01:18:31):
but I think Yeah.
But I think in the next six to18 months that these chat
robots, like chat G p t, aregoing to be so integrated into
our lives that people won't evenrealize.

Tali (01:18:44):
You think it'll be like, Because they can just put a
voice to it.

Cody (01:18:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
It'll, it'll not, it'll, it not,it'll not only be more humanized
like with voices and likevisual, like you can have a, an
avatar of a person who lookslike they're talking to you and
you can choose like, oh, Iwanna, you know, I want a hot,
you know, 27 year old Jamaicangal or something.
Like, you know, whatever.
You'll be able to talk towhoever you want, you know, in

(01:19:08):
whatever style you want.
But my point is, is that it'sgonna start to be integrated
into things in such a way thatyou don't really, it's kinda
like the internet.
So when I remember in theearlier days of the internet,
and some people I still knowtoday, I might not name a name
right now who are afraid to givetheir credit card information
over the internet.

(01:19:29):
Are you on my dad?
Yes, I am.
Yeah.
I wasn't gonna name names, buthe knows that.
We all know that.
But here's the funny thing is ifyou swipe your card at any
terminal in a grocery store at agas station, It's going through
the internet like it didn't usedto.
Mm-hmm.
It used to be a dial up directthing, just secure, like from
that to the bank.

(01:19:49):
It's, everything's on wifianymore.
Absolutely.
Everything is going over theinternet now, but you don't know
it.
It's just so convenient that youdon't even fucking know it.
Sure.
And these chat G p t things aregonna be the same way.
You're, your your GPS talks toyou as it is right now.
It gives you directions.
Right.
Well, imagine intelligence builtinto that to where it's like, I

(01:20:10):
know what your objective is.
I know that you're trying to getto this resort by a certain
time, but I also know that youhaven't eaten for four hours.
And so as you're driving, it'sgonna be like, there's your
favorite restaurant is only 10minutes out of the way.
Would you like to divert tothat?
You know, and you'll think, mostpeople will think, oh, this is

(01:20:30):
just a new Google update to mygps.
No, it's, it's an, it's anintelligence that's trying to
predict what you want and giveit to you.
And it's gonna be built intothings like that.
And so people are gonna be usingit without even knowing that
they're using it.

Tali (01:20:45):
Well, part of me, it feels very fortunate to be the last of
the stone age where things wereso simple.

Cody (01:20:54):
Yeah, I think it's kind of exciting.
I'm trying to be optimisticabout it cuz it's kind of like
if it's, if it's a dystopiansituation, it's pretty much
outta my control.
Like I'm not, what am I gonna doto stop it?
Well, let's watch

Tali (01:21:08):
iRobot.
It's kinda like, I don't know,let's, let's see what your
options are.

Cody (01:21:12):
You have talked about this before where sometimes over the
last three, and I'm not going totry to get too dark here on our
podcast for you listening, butthere's some really, really
tough economic.
Realities that we are beingfaced with right now.
Yeah.
That most people are justsleeping through.
Like they're totally unaware,but it's real.

(01:21:34):
There are global food shortages,banks collapsing currencies
collapsing.
Governments on the brink ofcollapsing.
Like we are in a very fragilestate in a lot of ways.
And a lot of people are justoblivious to it, or seem to be.
And it kind of kept me, and Ithink both of us from really

(01:21:57):
making a lot of progress duringthe covid lockdown phase through
2020.
We didn't make a lot of progresswith business or our physical
fitness or like anything.
We didn't make a lot of progressin any area of our life for that
year.
And some of it was just becausewe felt like there's this
impending doom, like what's thefucking point?
Why, why build a business now ifthe whole economy is gonna

(01:22:18):
collapse?
Right.
But you've made the point, andI've tried to keep this in mind
too, is that like, well first ofall, It might not.
And if it doesn't, then we'regonna be in a good position if
we're building our business nowto come out the other side of a
recession in a better place.
I inspired this.

Tali (01:22:36):
Yeah.
Okay.

Cody (01:22:37):
Because you've said, well, what if it does collapse?
What difference does it make?
Like if we build a successfulbusiness in six to 12 months and
then it all goes to shit, itwould've gone to shit anyway.
Right?
So why not just do what we wouldnormally do anyway?
Like, why not try to makeforward progress with our
finances, our fitness, ourbusiness, our, and all the

(01:22:58):
things that we want toaccomplish in our lives?
You might as well just work asif the isn't inevitable.
Mm-hmm.
Even if it is it's, so that'show I look at ai.
It's like, well, we might aswell look at how it's probably
gonna help cure cancer.
Probably gonna help cure aids,dementia, Alzheimer's.

(01:23:19):
Like diabetes, it, it,

Tali (01:23:21):
but that might not be, that doesn't seem to be, at
least when it comes to like thegeneral narrative around ai,
that that's the driving force.
It is.

Cody (01:23:30):
It's just that you might be looking at the scare
headlines only, whereas I'm morelike geeking out on it.
And so I see like a lot of theintentions behind ai Okay.
Is to do these things forhumanity.
Well, feel

Tali (01:23:43):
free to pass those

Cody (01:23:43):
along more.
Yeah.
So my point is, is that I'mchoosing to kinda look at it in
a positive light because even ifthe dystopian future is the
truth and the reality of it, Ican't do a fucking thing about
that anyway, so why worry aboutit?
Like, I, I can't go thereanyway, so I might as well look
at the positive advancementsthat it's having or, or positive

(01:24:06):
contributions that it could havein our lives.
Well, and there's

Tali (01:24:09):
also a very different I sentiment to continuing to move
forth as opposed to burying yourhead in the sand.
Yeah.

Cody (01:24:18):
It doesn't do any good.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So,

Tali (01:24:24):
well, on that positive note,

Cody (01:24:27):
I think it's a very positive note.

Tali (01:24:30):
Oh man.
I feel like all, allconversations like lead to AI at
this point.
Well, we're at a, it's reallyfascinating.
Yeah.

Cody (01:24:37):
We're at a, we're at a crossroad.
This is like the early ninetiesfor the internet.
Like we're in that phase againwhere everything is about to
change.
And I think that's somethingthat I can say confidently.
Like, I don't know if it's gonnaget, I think you're right.
I don't know if it's gonna getway better or way worse, but
it's gonna, but it'll bedifferent.

(01:24:57):
Be very different.
Yeah.
Like we are gonna 10 years, weare living in a different world
that we would not recognizetoday.
So Do you wanna go cuddle your

Tali (01:25:11):
cats?
I do, except they're juststarting to fight.
Well, let's wrap it up.
Okay.
Well, that was fun.

Cody (01:25:17):
It was fun.
It was almost two podcasts inone.
Got to geek out on some AI

Tali (01:25:22):
chatter.
I can't even remember why thatcame up.
But learning styles.
We'll listen to it again in theediting process.
Hope

Cody (01:25:28):
you've enjoyed the ride.
If you're listening we'd reallylove to hear from you.
Yes, we have a podcast page onour website.
It's got a little orange button.
You just click that and it's soeasy.
Get into a quiet spot and giveus some feedback on anything
that was said.
Anything you disagree with,anything you'd like to
contribute on any of ourepisodes, and we'd love to

(01:25:49):
revisit those concepts.
And play your recording on theair.
So give it boo boop.
Yeah, drop us a, a littlemassage.
think that's it for me.
You?
Mm-hmm.
All right.
Well, we will see you all in aweek to see you in a week.
I love you.
I love you too.

Tali (01:26:08):
This episode was produced by Tali Zari and Cody Limbaugh.
Check out our writing coachingservices and homesteading
adventures at live all yourlife.com.
For show notes, resourcesmentioned, or to submit a
question or contribution, clickon the podcast tab.

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