042 How To Create Sustainable Change: The Philosophy Of Fitness Ep. 32

Episode Transcript
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Cody (00:16):
Hi, this is Cody Limbaugh.
And

Tali (00:17):
I'm Tali Zabari, and you're listening to the
Philosophy of Fitness Podcast onthe live

Cody (00:23):
All Your Life Network.

Tali (00:47):
Hey doll.
Hey, baby.
It's been a minute.
It's

Cody (00:51):
been a few

Tali (00:51):
minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah, we got a little bit out ofthe habit of recording every
weekend.
I can't exactly put my finger onas to why, but it happened,
which I feel like that's a funnyway to start this podcast
considering what our topic istoday.
Yeah.

Cody (01:08):
Well we're not, we're not claiming to be perfect here.
No.
Just cuz we're coaches.
We had some in the tankthankfully, so we didn't have
any gaps in our publishing.
Right.

Tali (01:18):
But we're down to the wire.
Yes.
And so we're producing again.
And today's icebreaker is what,what is was the last dream that
you remember having?

Cody (01:31):
Man, that's a hard one for me cuz I hardly ever remember my
dreams.

Tali (01:34):
I know.
But I think forcing yourself totry to remember helps.

Cody (01:39):
It does help.
But that only works if you do,like, have a reminder for
yourself first thing in themorning.

Tali (01:45):
Yeah.
If they fade or like really getjumbly if you let a few hours
pass.
Yeah.
Well, do you remember anythingthat you, it doesn't have to be
last night, but the last dreamthat you remember having.

Cody (01:57):
I know even that is hard.
I'm not struggling to rememberanything.

Tali (02:01):
Well, I'll go first.
Maybe that'll buy you a littlebit of time.
My dream last night, Idefinitely don't remember the
details anymore, but I doremember that we were looking at
apartments in Portland.
I like we were gonna move backor something.
And the weird thing about dreamssometimes is that there will be

(02:23):
things in your dreams that feelreally familiar, even if you've
never seen them before.
So there was a particularapartment layout that I can, I
can kind of see in my mind if Ithink about it really hard.
In my dream at the time, it wassupposed to represent, like, oh,
a familiar place or somewhere wehad already lived which is super

(02:45):
strange.
And it's different from likereoccurring dreams.
I have had dreams that havetaken place in the same house,
whatever, multiple times.

Cody (02:58):
Yeah.
I've had a few of those too.
I have, I have a couplelocations that I've dreamt about
locations.
Yeah.
Several times that I have neveractually seen in real life.

Tali (03:05):
Isn't that weird?
Yeah.
But there's like a feeling offamiliarity.
Oh yeah.
It's like when you're dreaming,it feels comfortable, like it
would in real life.
I, I don't understand how itworks at all.
But I do watch a lot of like,house DIY stuff and like really
love interior design.
So maybe it is inspired by aplace that I've seen before.

(03:26):
I don't know.
But I definitely know it was adream because I don't think we
plan to move back to Portland.
No.
Like ever, no

Cody (03:37):
nice to visit.
I don't think I wanna live thereagain.
It's

Tali (03:41):
weird because I've lived in Portland for such a long
time.
I was born there, I grew upthere, went away for a while,
and then came back and there'sso much of it that I love.
But I don't know, I think thatsense of familiarity is like not
exciting to me.
Hmm.
I would rather explore somewhereelse.

(04:03):
Somewhere new.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's such abeneficial, I don't know, not
tool or characteristic, but justlike an attitude to have that
you can make anywhere your home.
Hmm.
Yeah.
I've moved a couple of times inmy life and I think, you know,
the first time wasn't very faraway, but it was at a really
important time in my life wherethere was a lot of change, and

(04:26):
so that was really significant.
And then moving here, I wouldsay, Is significant because of
how different it is.
Not necessarily the point in mylife, but just for a different
reason.
And it's, they've been reallyimportant experiences.
Yeah,

Cody (04:42):
yeah, yeah.
Well I do remember a dream.
Yay.
Yeah.
I wish I remembered it moreclearly cuz I remember at the
time thinking, well this is kindof like one of those lesson
dreams, which don't happen veryoften.
I have a hard time with peoplewho assign a lot of meaning to
their dreams because most of mydreams have just felt like
completely complete, utternonsense that's like completely

(05:06):
useless.
But this one seemed to be one ofthose dreams, like you might see
in a movie like this is verysymbolic.
Okay.
And so a recurring theme thatI've had in my dreams for the
last year or so is thisoverwhelming sense of
frustration that occurs withinthe dream.

(05:28):
And a lot of times it's eitherme trying to get ahold of you,
like via phone.
Mm-hmm.
And my phone won't work.
And in the dream it's sort oflike hours or maybe days go by
without being able to reach you.
Mm-hmm.
And having the sensation likeyou are feeling like I'm

(05:50):
neglecting you or rejecting youor have left you or something
like that.
And I'm like trying to get aholdof you and I just can't.
And it's weird.
It's weirdly frustrating.
The other version is I'm tryingto get somewhere and I'm, no
matter how hard I'm running inmy dream is like slow motion
walking.
It's like all I'm capable ofdoing is walking.

(06:12):
Mm.
And.
Every muscle in my body istensed up and I'm like
struggling to sprint.
And all that's happening is aslow walk.
And I'm just So, you'resprinting in your mind.
Frustrated.
Like even my body is just alltensed up and everything.
I'm just not moving.
And people are like walking byme with ease, you know?
It's weird.
It's just weird.

(06:32):
Just utterly frustratingsensation.
And this was one of those dreamsand I was trying to get down a
sidewalk.
And here's the kind of symbolicpart though, is like I get to an
intersection, which is symbolichow castaway

Tali (06:47):
of you.
And at

Cody (06:48):
that intersection, it's in the city though.
And at that intersection though,I look to my side and the person
next to me on the sidewalk isJordan Peterson.
What?
And he's always talking aboutlike dreams and meaning and you
know, all this psych psychologyof.
Choice.
And, and here I am at anintersection talking to Jordan
Peterson about this frustrationand choices that I'm making or

(07:11):
whatever.
And I, like I said, I wish Icould remember more, cuz at the
time it seemed like it wasbringing me some clarity.
And here it is a few weeks laterand I'm like, eh, I forgot.
So Well, what's the lesson?
That's what I'm saying.
I wish I could remember it more.
I got it.
It's kind of faded, but well,there's

Tali (07:26):
a lot of irony, that's for sure.
Yeah.

Cody (07:28):
So maybe I'll, okay, maybe I'll journal about it and
remember what I was thinking atthe time that there was some
sort of lesson.
But yeah, I think I have beenfeeling like I've been making
some changes lately as far asjust dialing in my daily habits
and you know, I've been workingfrom home by myself for the most

(07:53):
part since November, and we'rein April now.
And so as with anything, whenyou start something new, it's
always easy.
It's like this new excitinghoneymoon phase, and then
there's sort of like a lull or adip where it's like, oh shit.
It's like I'm, I'm not beholdento a boss.
I have no time card.

(08:13):
I have, I'm not checking in andlike signing in for work and
signing up.
You have nowhere where to be.
Yeah, I have, I haveappointments, but no, that's
true.
But not all day.
So, and I purposefully stackmost of my appointments to the
morning because I get anappointment anxiety if they're
in the afternoon.
It's like, it feels like itaffects my whole day, even

(08:35):
though it's a one hour session.
It's just on my mind and it'slike coming up and, and that
anticipation just sort of likemesses with me.
So I like to put all myappointments first thing in the
morning.

Tali (08:44):
Sounds like a typical split shift coach.
Yeah.
Kind of thing.

Cody (08:49):
But but having all my appointments in the morning also
means I'm off the hook after mylast appointment.
It's like the rest of the day ismine, which I love, but it can
be a trap because it's easy tobe like, well, I'm tired, I'm
gonna go take a nap.
You know, instead of doing workthat needs to be done, keeping
the momentum going.
Yeah.
So I do feel like in the lastfew weeks, like since that dream

(09:10):
even, I've kind of been dialingin my, I dunno if you can call
it self discipline or just likeorganizing myself to be a little
bit more effective.
And I feel like I'm on anupswing good when it comes to
that.
And so I think that might relateto those dreams.

(09:30):
Like I have this frustration oftrying to run somewhere and
can't move very quickly.
And in my real life I kind ofhave this hangup with never
feeling like I've been aseffective as I need to be in a
day Yeah.
To get shit done.
So anyway, I feel like I'm on anupswing with that still not
exactly where I want to be or,or visualize myself, but, well,

Tali (09:53):
there's a lot to figure out when you have your own
schedule.
Mm-hmm.
It's not obvious.
And I think sometimes when youtry to recreate your day as if
you had a job, you know, youmight find that that doesn't
work.
You have to try a lot ofdifferent things, I think, to
find mm-hmm.
Your groove and what's gonnawork for you and appeal to your

(10:14):
energy and

Cody (10:16):
Well, and a lot of jobs have narrow parameters, so, Even
if it's not a factory job whereyou're like putting the same
bolt in the, in the million carsin a day, you know, like even if
it's not some rote thing, eventhe more creative jobs still
tend to have sort of lanes thatyou're in and you're in that

(10:36):
lane and that's your job and youdo that.
But as a business owner, youwear all the hats.
Like I'm in all the lanes.
You do a lot, whether it's themarketing, the programming, the
coaching, the you know, prospectcalls building the website.
Like it's, it's everything.
All, all the things are there.
It's endless.
It's all on the table and it'sall on the table every day.

(10:59):
And so it's, it's easy to justsort of not know where to start.
I think a big problem withentrepreneurialism and people
who are trying to, whether it'strying to take their side hustle
into their full-time thing orwhatever, I think a, a big
lesson is for people to learnhow to get clarity on what they

(11:23):
should be doing.
Cuz it's just so Oh yeah.
Easy.
It's so easy to be busy and notget anywhere.
Yeah.
Busy but not effective.
Oh yeah.
And I had a saying for it, butnow I forgot to sing.
But anyway.
You're, you're, oh, it's, it'slike you're doing activities but
not really taking action.
Like, the difference is you're,you're active doing things, but

(11:47):
a lot of what you do might notactually move the needle to make
progress on your business.
Sure.
It's just things that you thinkyou should be doing cuz it feels
like you're, you're doing work,you know?
Like for, for us maybe writing ablog or something like, That's,
that feels if, you know, likepart of the work, part of the

(12:08):
job, but it has zero effect.
Like nobody reads blogs anymoreand at least not ours.
And if they do, it's like maybesome blog that's like already
popular has conversations goingaround it.
They have a huge following, someauthor that's sold a million
copies of their book orsomething.
But for us, plebes are here.
Just kinda like trying to getdiscovered in the blogging

(12:29):
world.
Blogging is something thathappened 20 years ago and so
even though it's cool, we bothlike to write, that's probably
not the most effective use ofour time in order to, you know,
get the exposure we need andbuild on our business.
It's not the highest priority.
Yeah.
So just kind of an example oflike activity versus really
taking action on things thatmove the needle.

Tali (12:51):
Well I think that's a fair segue into what we wanna talk
about today.
Our topic has a few ideas thatwe wanna explore, but I would
say the overall.
Gist, our overall idea is aboutsteady progress and not only

(13:12):
like different ways to managethat steady progress.
I feel like that ties reallywell into what you were just
talking about cuz it reallytakes figuring out, I think.
Mm-hmm.
I think, and you have to be opento, I think trying different
methods or having to play withdifferent intensities to see

(13:33):
like what you can actually hangwith or what's gonna be too far
over the edge.
So yeah.
Steady progress, let's just callit that.
Mm-hmm.
And then start going into thislike subcategories.

Cody (13:44):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, the old cliche,slow and steady wins the race
with the tortoise and the hair.
Mm-hmm.
It's kind of this analogy thatpeople think of, but there's a
lot of nuances that I think wecan explore in.
Trying to figure out what thatmeans for us as individuals and
the things that we're trying toachieve.

(14:04):
Life seems short sometimes, sowe can get in a rush to try to
get somewhere that we want tobe.
And we also have a kind of asociety of instant gratification
which also I think contributesto this.
Whether it's the dopamine hityou get from getting on
Instagram or a microwave dinneror fast or fast food, like

(14:27):
they're just, yeah, endlessexamples in our society of
instant reward.
You know, it's really easy toget your hands on sugar or watch
a movie or get on social mediaor whatever that is.
Instant reward is kind of allaround us.
When we're doing things likeworking out, you know, it has

(14:49):
its own sort of instant rewards.
Eventually once you, once youkind of get into the groove you
can, it's like, wow, I feel sogood cuz I just got done working
out.
And so you have a little bit ofinstant intrinsic reward, but it
takes some practice to getthere.
If you're really outta shape,those first few workouts are
gonna feel like shit.
And so in a way you're workingtowards something that's a

(15:10):
delayed onset reward system.
So I think that may be aninteresting place to start with
this conversation is just likegetting the ball rolling and
learning a little bit ofpatience in the results versus
the practice that we're doing.

Tali (15:30):
Sure.
Well, something I just wannabring up, I was thinking about
as you were saying, all of thatis, especially cuz you brought
up Instagram, you know, I thinkit's really easy to forget that
all the things that we see onInstagram, Like people doing
things with their lives.
Like not only do we forget thatthat's incredibly curated

(15:51):
content.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we're not seeingwhat's happening between posts
by any means.
And, you know, quote unquote,posts are forever.
And so people are gonna bereally thoughtful about what
they put up there.
And then we also don't know thewhole journey that it took them
to get there.
Mm-hmm.
You know, if I think even aboutmy own Instagram, I did a lot of

(16:12):
posting when I was really strongand, you know, training all the
time, but there were also like10 years before that where I was
just like ramping up.
Mm-hmm.
It wasn't anything special.
It wasn't anything sexy.
You know, it does, it's not anovernight success kind of thing.
And so I think a lot of times wecan be very hard on ourselves

(16:34):
when we aren't getting thatinstant gratification like,
Realizing that it takes a lot ofreally unsexy work.
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like we've had thatconversation with our clients
lately about, you know, this is,this result that you're looking
for is gonna require you to notonly be uncomfortable, but to be

(16:55):
uncomfortable often.
And you're going to have tochange the decisions that you
make or make conscious effortall the time.
Mm-hmm.
All the time.
Like changing your life, whetherit's fitness or business or
anything else.
It's a tall order and that'sokay.

(17:17):
But I think it's important thatwe don't sugarcoat how, how much
work that really takes.

Cody (17:23):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And it's, it's one of thosethings too where you know, you
were just talking about.
Uncomfortable work, but it couldalso be a situation where it
gets more comfortable with thepractice, but you have to put in
enough time for it to get there.
Yeah.

(17:43):
You know, particularly infitness, sometimes I forget,
even though I think I have alittle more experience with this
than some people, and I thinkyou do too, some coaches sort of
like grew up in sports and thenthey went from sports to
athletic training and then to apersonal trainer.
Mm-hmm.
Like they've been in shape theirwhole fucking life and they have
no idea what it's like to beunfit and to be really unfit,

(18:07):
unhealthy un Yeah.
And so, but I remember when Ifirst got, I was already
certified even, and I was stillin such poor shape that I would
go.
I worked at Ballet Total Fitnesswhen I first got my first
certification, and I remembergoing in and doing what I
thought was a warmup.
Like I would just be moving andstarting to push some weights.
And 15 minutes in, I, I'd turngreen and I'd like have to go to

(18:31):
the bathroom and like lay downin the locker room cuz I felt
like I was on a puke.
And that took, that took a yearof training to get over that.
Like, wow.
I, I would just feel nauseousalmost every time I tried to
work out.
And So I think it's easy toforget now, 20 years later what

(18:53):
it must be like for some peopleto start and then they get
really frustrated cuz they mightnot be seeing results of change
in their body or whatever.
And it's like, you know, youkind of have to, like, the first
result you should be looking foris to kind of change your
identity.
And I'm probably gonna refer tothis book a lot in this podcast
because it's just so germane toour topic, which is Atomic

(19:16):
Habits by James Clear.
And I was just reading in, in itthis morning, but he has this
quote from the book I think isbrilliant.
He's like, every action you takeright now is a vote for the
person that you want to become.

Tali (19:28):
You said that yesterday in a coaching call and I loved the
phrasing around it or no, today?
Yesterday.

Cody (19:34):
Yesterday.
Yesterday.
Yeah.
And I think we just have toremember that, that these like
small incremental steps, it'snot that we're.
It's not that we're necessarilydoing a workout to get a result,
we're doing a re a workout inwith the intention of being
consistent enough that thatbecomes who we are.

(19:55):
We are the type of people whodon't miss workouts and the type
of people who don't missworkouts are the type of people
who are fit.
Yeah.
It's not, do a workout, get aresult, do a workout, get a
result.
It's building a lifestyle aroundhow you think, how you move, how

(20:16):
you structure your days thecareer choices that you have.
Like I, it's, it's amazing the,a number of people I talk to
who's like livelihood preventsthem from working out and is an
excuse for like, their pooreating habits and their poor
lifestyle.
And it's like, you know, I, Iunderstand we all have to pay
bills, but.

(20:37):
You really have to stop andthink about your priorities here
if your job is causing you suchdegradation.
Such Yeah, like physical andmental degradation.
Like you say.
Like that's, that's a fuckingproblem.
Like that needs to be addressed.

Tali (20:53):
Totally.
And that came up with a clientrecently too, is like, maybe
that's something you need toevaluate.
Yeah.
And I know I had said this atone point, you know, coming back
to coaching at first was alittle bit, it felt a little
defeating at first, essentiallygoing backwards.

(21:15):
Cuz we had moved here and we hadopportunity for new life and the
slate was wiped clean.
And turns out all I wanted to dowas something I'd already done.
And that just didn't feel veryimpressive to me being dealt
this new card in life.
And you know, Doing the same,same old however, part of me

(21:40):
feels really convinced that aslong as I'm a coach, I will
always be in favor of my health.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I'm gonna be spendingtime in a gym.
I'm gonna be teaching others howto be living healthier lives.
And so if that's what I do forthe rest of my life, like at
least I can have some security.
Knowing that that's gonna be avalue and a theme.

(22:02):
You know, it doesn't, justbecause you hire a coach doesn't
mean you're gonna get theresults.
You still have a lot of work todo.
Mm-hmm.
I've also learned that as a, asa client myself.
But you know, there are noguarantees there.
However, you know, being in thefitness industry is going to
ensure that that is the, thechatter.
That's the water I swim in.

(22:24):
Mm-hmm.
And so I'm really okay with thatbecause I have seen how easy it
is to slide in the otherdirection, and it happens so
quickly to the point where itscares me.
It really scares me, like whatmy body can become mm-hmm.
If I'm not doing this work.
Yeah.

Cody (22:44):
Yeah.
I mean that's, I got intopersonal training.
Completely selfishly, that wasthe whole point for me to become
a personal trainer, is that Iwas like, really sickly, missing
a lot of work because I wassick.
230 pounds of really weak mass.
And excuse me, I I became atrainer in order to get the

(23:11):
education, to try to get myselfin good shape and build some
accountability around it.
So I guess I have a little lesssympathy, if you will for the
excuse that people's career orjob is getting in the way of
their health.
Cuz to me, that's a misalignmentof priorities.

Tali (23:31):
Well, you know how it's like to be stuck on a train like
that, you know?
Yeah.
Your whole life becomesdependent on this job and it's,
you know, think about even likechanging over our banks, like
how messy that was, like tryingto think about changing your
career.
Mm-hmm.
That's hard.
That's a.
Big ask, but we're also talkingabout like your fucking life

(23:52):
here.
Like you only get one body.

Cody (23:53):
Yeah, exactly.
That's what I'm saying is thatI, I think people misunderstand
the priority of, you know, areyou gonna stay in that job for
30 or 40 years and end up asickly old person?

Tali (24:05):
Well, we've also talked about in a podcast before about
like, can one hour of exercisereally balance the other 23
hours of your day?
Mm-hmm.
That are not in favor of yourhealth.
So I think there is potential tohave a really demanding job, or
even a job that's hard on yourbody, but that might mean that
there has to be sacrificesomewhere else to really

(24:27):
compensate for it.
Like, if you are not onlyworking a job that's really
tough on you mentally,physically, whatever, but then
you are also heavilyprioritizing like television
time.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that's a weird thingthat.
I feel like even in ourhousehold, we consider a given.
Mm-hmm.

(24:48):
And it's easy to forget thatthere are other options out
there.
Mm-hmm.
That could be much better forus.
So there just has to be asacrifice somewhere or a trade.

Cody (24:59):
Yeah.
It can't be fit into everythingyou're already doing.
Yeah.
If you want to change, this isnot just exercise, this is
anything.
If you want to change, you can'tkeep everything the same that it
is now and then add, cause noneof us have room to add anything.
You have to take something outto put something more in.
And so if you want to changeyourself, whether it's learning

(25:22):
a language or, or developingyour body or you know, taking
more time for intimacy or goingon dates or whatever, like you
can't just add to your existing

Tali (25:35):
life.
You've gotta take that energyfrom elsewhere.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know if you heard it inthe car this morning, but my mom
was telling my sister and Ithat.
With all of the practices she'strying to implement in her life.
She's got a lot of like coursesthat she's interested in taking
on a personal development andpersonal healing.
And, you know, lots of thingsoutside of her work.

(25:58):
And for those of you who don'tknow, my mom, she is like by
definition a workaholic.
And she said something like, sononchalantly today, I was like,
damn, that's kind of a big deal.
She was saying that, you know,she's like letting some of the
things that she normally doesjust kind of fall by the wayside
in order to make room for thesemm-hmm.

(26:19):
Practices.
And I was like, damn, I've neverheard her even think about
compromising her work forherself.
Yeah.
So I can tell that there's gottabe a huge shift that she's even
saying that out loud.
Mm-hmm.
So it's, it can happen, butlike, goodness, it's taken her a
really long time to get to thispoint.

Cody (26:38):
Yeah.
Well we recently published a.
Podcasts on boundaries, settingboundaries for yourself.
Mm-hmm.
Just a few weeks ago.
And I think, I'm not necessarilytelling everybody out there to
quit your job and become apersonal trainer.
I know, like, that's not thepoint.
But I think that we sometimesforget that we can set

(26:59):
boundaries for ourselves, evenif we have a demanding career.
And by just telling youremployer, like, I'm sorry, I'm
not available until 8:00 AM orsomething like that.
Or you know, asking whether yourschedule can be shifted around
somewhere or maybe given, maybedo a split shift.

(27:19):
Maybe you come in early and takea two hour lunch.
Like what?
There's no law that says youcan't take a two hour lunch so
that you can get a workout inand your meal get cleaned up,
come back to work.
That's not unheard of.
It just may be unheard of foryou or your current employer,
but I think it's worth beingcreative to try to make sure

(27:40):
that your lifestyle is servingyou and your future and your
health and a balance.

Tali (27:47):
Well, so we've already covered a couple of the topics
that we wrote down for todaywithout really mentioning them.
So the first one is never donothing.
Mm-hmm.
And though that may not begrammatically correct.
I like the way it sounds.
But it's, it's reallyhighlighting how important the
practice is and kind of makingintensity secondary because like

(28:12):
you were saying, for steadyprogress or really progress at
all, it's all about taking on anew lifestyle.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, becoming the kindof person who.
Works out or creates art orwhatever the pursuit is.
And so I, you know, if your lifeis demanding and you're just

(28:36):
kind of newly entering thispractice, you have to be okay
with having the Barbie low.
Yeah.
Just in order to make thathappen.
I have a good friend who, shehas a gym membership and a lot
of the times she'll go into thegym and all she'll do is.
But she walks away being like,I'm glad I went to the gym
today.
She intentionally took the timeto move her body.

(28:59):
Yeah.
And even though it might nothave been what she had been able
to do in the past, or what she'dreally liked to be doing, now
she is prioritizing intentionalmovement.
Mm-hmm.
And that is totally worthcelebrating.

Cody (29:12):
Yeah.
I wrote an article about thislike 10 years ago, and I'm sure
that a lot of coaches out thereespecially at the time, would've
pushed back against myphilosophy on this.
But I, my article was called NoDays Off.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I really, reallyfervently believe that this idea
of training days, Monday,Wednesday, Friday, I kind of I.

(29:38):
I sort of recoil at the idea ofworking out Monday, Wednesday,
Friday, because that's threedays outta seven.
That's exactly what we do.
That's three days outta seven.
What do you mean?
Well, no, we do walks and stuffon Tuesday, Thursdays, so just,

Tali (29:51):
and something on Saturday.
Shoot me out.
Sorry, me out.

Cody (29:54):
My point of no days off is not go balls out seven days a
week.
Mm-hmm.
My point is, is that you have toset aside some time, like let's
say you have a minimumthreshold, 20 minutes or
whatever, where every day, sevendays a week, you're going to do
something for at least 20minutes.
Now that could be on a Monday,you do CrossFit and a lift and

(30:18):
some mobility, and you're inthere for 90 minutes.
But on Tuesday you go for a 20minute walk to recover.
So I'm not saying never haverecovery days, I'm saying never
do nothing, which is what KellyStarz said.
Well, I'll give credit wherecredit's due.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Kelly Star's the one that saidnever do nothing, which is has
alliteration.
So it's a little better thanmine cuz it has alliteration.

(30:40):
But I've been saying for a longtime now that you should never
take days off because days offbreak your habit, days off are a
version of you that doesn't workout.
And if you want to be reallywell-rounded, fit, healthy,
vital, someone who moves and youidentify as someone who is
active and energetic, then youneed to act like it.

(31:02):
And you need to do that as adaily practice.
So when I say no days, I'm notsaying CrossFit seven days a
week.
I'm saying Monday, Wednesday,Friday is fine if you wanna take
those as your intensity days.
But the days in between youshould be doing something
mobility, a five minute stretchroutine, a walk a something.
You have to be doing somethingintentionally.

(31:24):
Otherwise it's not a habit.
There's no such thing as a habitthat's like two days a week.

Tali (31:30):
Well, and I think when you make it a part of your life in
that way in, I think you'realmost like giving yourself more
freedom and a chance to be morein tune with yourself because
you can make decisions mm-hmm.
On how you're gonna spend thatintentional time where you know,
if you're following like aParadise program, all of that is

(31:50):
set out for you.
And if you feel like shit andyou have a.
Really heavy day ahead of you.
You know, that session might notgo well, but I remember like
back when I would train all thetime, it, it would've been nice
to like have the freedom to belike, oh, I feel like crap
today.
I'm just gonna like back off alittle bit.
Yeah.
But I didn't, I was really heldto the schedule.

(32:10):
I was held to the periodization,well, it was in line with my
goals.
I wanted to be, you know, agreat weightlifter and, you
know, conquer that world and allthat.
But I think if you're not in thecompetitive world, there's a lot
more opportunity to create thatawareness and development of
your sensitivity andunderstanding of like what your

(32:34):
body needs.
Mm-hmm.
That's huge.
Yeah.
We're constantly, Forcingourselves mm-hmm.
Into situations and needing alot of ex, I've struggled with
needing a lot of like, externalstructure and really wanting and
desiring to be able to like,have those things come
intrinsically or come fromwithin.

(32:56):
Mm-hmm.
You know, I've been very relianton coaches, very reliant on
programming, and it's helped ina lot of ways.
I've made it really far and beenin great shape because of it.
But like I said, there's beenlike a, a tendency to become
reliant on it, and I want to beable to you know, manage that

(33:20):
myself.
Why?
Because I think that that wouldbe a way of knowing that it's
like internalized.
Mm-hmm.
Like it's become my values, youknow?
Mm-hmm.
I've been in positions where Ihaven't had coaches, whether
it's for nutrition or exercise.

(33:44):
And I have felt completely outof control and I become very
panicked and uncomfortable.
And part of me is thinks that,okay, I just need to accept what
I need in order to get where Iwant to go.
And that might not be somethingthat's inherent to me, but I
guess part of me would hopethat, like after being alive for

(34:06):
32 years, that like, you know,being in shape or having healthy
habits is like something that Iwould choose for myself even if
no one was helping me.
Mm-hmm.
And I think I would to somedegree, but I wouldn't make it
very far.
I need a lot of support.
I need a lot of, a lot of hypepeople in my corner to make it

(34:27):
happen.

Cody (34:28):
Mm-hmm.
Well, I think that's where thenever do nothing is even more
valuable because if you.
Develop the practice of knowingthat every day you're gonna set
some time aside for your body.
I think that goes a long waytoward never falling off the
wagon, so to speak.

(34:49):
You know, if you take three daysoff from a Friday, Saturday,
Sunday, then Monday sucks tryingto get back in there.
Mm-hmm.
But if it's something you doevery day with some intention,
it becomes something you startto look forward to.
You know, it's gonna feel goodand, you know, it's just part of
who you are and what you do.
Mm-hmm.
On the other hand, I don't thinkthere's ever been a problem with
having a coach.
I think that we

Tali (35:11):
in, well we've advocated for it like crazy.
Yeah.
I don't think there's anythingwrong with it either.
I

Cody (35:16):
think though that we live in a society where getting help
is sort of a Well that would benice.
And I think it's reallynecessary.
We are social animals.
We are, we are.
Impressionable.
We are, we're, we'reimpressionable, but we're also,

(35:36):
I'm, I'm blanking on the word,but they're, we're like social
apes, you know?
We are, we are primates thatare, have evolved in a very
social way.
We are very dependent on eachother.
Mm-hmm.
And to deny that, like, to pullyourself up by your own
bootstraps and this whole like,self-made person, this like, on
an island independenceespecially here in America, is

(36:00):
just like this kind of themethat's shoved at us a lot.
And I think there's a lot ofgreat things about that.
You know, being an individual,being, you know, making your own
choices, having freedoms andsuch.
But that doesn't mean that youcan ever have all the answers be
a hundred percent disciplined.

(36:22):
Like to expect perfection ofyourself and to be able to
expect yourself to grow in avacuum is just silly.
And I think immature.
I, it's, I think havingaccountability, whether it's
friends, an accountabilitygroup, coaches, like all those
things are really valuable andare not something to be looked
on as like, well, I am failingby myself, therefore I need to

(36:45):
go get a coach now.
It should be your first thing.
It should be like, I should goget a coach so that I can
educate myself on what I'm doingand get guidance from someone
who's specializes in the thingI'm trying to accomplish and
kinda, you know, provideaccountability for myself.
And you know, that it's just avaluable tool to seek out rather
than a crutch.

Tali (37:06):
Can I just refer to Castaway really quick?
Sure.
So we watched Castaway thisweekend and it was the first
time I believe I've seen themovie all the way through.
And you know, it's a manstranded on an island by
himself, but if you think aboutit, his motivation to continue
to live and to get off theisland was his girlfriend.

(37:29):
Mm-hmm.
You know, he had her, herpicture all the time.
He thought about her all thetime.
That was like his motivation toget the hell off of that island.
And he also made a friend ofWilson, you know, for that
support in the meantime, someoneto talk to, someone to lean on.
And so I think that that's justa, a way of tying in the movie
of the week to to your idea oflike us being social animals and

(37:53):
how important it is to tap intothat.
Yeah.
How beneficial it can be.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
One thing about never doingnothing, and you know, that
example about.
That I mentioned about goinginto the gym.
Just a stretch.
I've been thinking a lot aboutcreating some content around the
idea of aiming higher.
You know, like you said, we'renever gonna be perfect, we're

(38:13):
never gonna do everything justright.
But I'm really trying to expressto our clientele on a regular
basis that you're always gonnahave another opportunity to do
more.
Mm-hmm.
To do better, whatever.
You know, it's not likeeverything is inherently good or

(38:34):
inherently bad or you know, justbecause it wasn't perfect.
It's like a complete fuck up.
But you also always have room topush a little bit harder.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that the never donothing or no days off is a
really good playing field forthat idea because, You're not

(38:57):
gonna be able to max out everyday.
You're not gonna be able to do,you know, high intensity every
day.
But it is gonna be enough datapoints for you to be able to,
kind of like what I was sayingbefore about having the
creativity in the room and thefreedom to really assess what
your body needs and what it'scapable for that day.
Mm-hmm.
And so you know, it's also areally cool grounds for ambition

(39:23):
and playing with that toggle,whether you're ramping it up or
dialing it down.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (39:29):
Yeah.
And I like the idea of the dialbecause, you know, just another
fitness analogy doesn't evenhave to apply to fitness, but we
all recognize, I think mostpeople should recognize that if
you're deadlifting for the firsttime, you're not gonna load the
bar up with 500 pounds and tryto lift a deadlift off the floor

(39:49):
for your first attempt ever.
You know, you're gonna startwith something that's very
manageable, that you can do forseveral reps with really good
form and movement patterns andfeel good and not strain your
back.
And then you gradually, over along period of time, you get
stronger and add that weight.
And that is just something thatI, you know, I think most people

(40:10):
are aware of, but for somereason when it comes to their
habits, they expect to justturn, flip a switch and start
doing something.
And to be the

Tali (40:18):
best ever, just because you've decided to be,

Cody (40:21):
or even the most consistent ever, it's like,
okay, I'm gonna do an hour a dayevery day of this thing.
It's like, well, why don't youstart with 10 minutes?
Let's, let's start withsomething that you know isn't
gonna burn you out in the firstweek.
And then slowly turn the dial upover time.
And that's what your, yourobjective is, is to get so

(40:41):
consistent and be, and changeyour identity.
Like I am a person who does anactivity every day and then,
Once you kind of establishedthat identity, then you can
start to turn the dial up.
Now I'm gonna do 15 minutesminimum every day now 20, et
cetera.
Until, until eventually you'reat that hour a day of kicking

(41:01):
ass and, you know, feeling greatabout it.

Tali (41:04):
So this actually takes us to our next point.
Mm-hmm.
Progress that's effective, notpainful.
Mm-hmm.
And we've been talking to ourclients who have a tendency to
like, push themselves a littlebit too hard sometimes, cuz we
do within our programming, likegive some room for, you know
rate of perceived effort and,you know, building to a

(41:28):
challenging set or whatever.
And so if you don't have a goodgrasp on what your capabilities
are, it's really easy to teetertoo far to the point.
You know, whether you strainsomething or you push yourself
so hard that you don't haveenergy to do anything the next
day.
Mm-hmm.
There are a lot of differentways I think that that can

(41:50):
pronounce itself as you know,pushing ourselves to a rate that
is no longer effective.
Mm-hmm.
And therefore isn't repeatable.

Cody (42:02):
Yeah.
And this is especially true, Ithink, in areas of a weakness
that we wanna bring up.
In CrossFit, they always talkedabout work where you're weak and
your goat.

Tali (42:12):
Yeah.
Which I don't know why theycalled it goat, because GOAT is
now known for greatest of alltime.
Yeah.
But that's later.
CrossFit.
It was like the thing that yousucked at.
Yeah.
But that was earlier.
Do you know why that

Cody (42:24):
was a.
Yeah, I think Adrian Bosman cameup with that.
Okay.
And it was just a joke, like,this is your, like your goat,
like referring to the animal.

Tali (42:32):
Yeah, I know, but like, this is just, it's not obvious.
I don't know.

Cody (42:36):
I don't know.
He's a silly guy.
But that's a Google search.
He's an awesome coach, but he'salso a really funny dude.
Anyway, the, the idea was tobring up your weaknesses so that
you're a more well-roundedathlete, cuz the whole objective
of CrossFit is to becomecompetent in just about

(42:56):
everything and to bring up allareas of your health and fitness
at the same time.
Not focus on one thing and leteverything else suffer.
And so another way of looking atit is like, you're stronger than
most individuals and you havebetter endurance than most
individuals, but you're not asstrong as a strong man, and
you're not, you don't have theendurance of an Ulta marathoner,
so you're, You're in like thetop 10% of the world as far as

(43:20):
like all of the things infitness, you got range, but
you're not the first in any onething.
So there's some value into thatand I love that philosophy.
But there's another, there's a,there's a dark side to that,
which is if you spend too muchtime working where you're weak,
you're kind of working in aplace of frustration that could

(43:41):
be needless.

Tali (43:41):
You're always up, you're always going against the
current.

Cody (43:45):
Yes.
And again, I told you I wasgonna bring this book up a few
times and I knew this was gonnacome up.
Okay.
James clear's Atomic Habits justthis morning I'm reading toward
the end of the book and he talksabout in one chapter, it's sort
of like going from good to greatkind of thing.
And he talks about the I ideathat, you know, certain people

(44:07):
are genetically gifted forcertain things and he uses a
really funny example of a runnerand I forget the guy's name and
I apologize for that becauseit's a reading the name I wasn't
even sure how to pronounce it.
So, okay.
The, I, the idea that I couldremember it is kind of funny,
but he was a runner who got twogold medals in I think the 2004

(44:31):
Olympics in Greece for the 1500and the 2000.
And he is like a really good atlike the one mile.
So he runs like three of thesesort of like mid-range races,
not sprints, but they're notsuper endurance anyway.
And then comparing that guy toMichael Phelps.
Michael Phelps is six four.

(44:52):
This runner guy is like fiveeight and they have the same in
seam on their pants.
And so, wait, I have to thinkabout that.
Yeah.
So Michael Phelps is six footfour with shorter than average
legs and a really long torso.
Right.
Which is, he's very, which isperfect for swimming long.
Yeah.
Because he's got this long,strong back and kind of like

(45:13):
long ape-like arms.
So it's like perfect forswimming.
Right.
Okay.
This other dude is like a, areally short torso.
He's short, overall long legs.
He, he only weighs 136 pounds.
Wow.
But his legs are, as long asMichael Phelps is, who is six
four.
So this guy's like built forrunning.
He's like the perfect runner cuzhe's super light, but he's got

(45:35):
longer legs even though he'sshorts.
Like long stride.
Yeah.
So he's got all the things thatmake him a great runner and he,
and that the whole point of thechapter is like, yes, these
people.
With a dedication that mostpeople don't like, there's
nothing to downplay the workthat was put in to them becoming
the best in their sport.
However, if you were to put therunner in the pool and Michael

(45:59):
Phelps on the track, they wouldbe dismal failures.
There's no way that MichaelPhelps could ever be a good
runner because he's too heavy.
Every time you add a pound torunning that, that you, you're
carrying that extra weight, thatextra energy output.
Heavy people are not goodrunners.
And so the point is, is thatinstead of always working where

(46:21):
you're weak, sometimes it's goodto just explore a lot of
options.
Find.
Habits that are actually easy tocreate and then really hone
those habits and practices.
Where that applies to exerciseis that you might want to just
try a whole bunch of differentmodalities, like try 30
different programs in one month.

(46:42):
Like, I don't know, I'm justthrowing something out there.
But I mean, just like reallyexperiment and see what you're,
you're drawn to, and then thehabit that you're trying to
create is much easier.
To do something that you'redrawn to, that you naturally
take to, that you feel like youget a quick win right off the
bat, that makes it much easierto develop a habit.

(47:03):
Oh yeah.
And then like I said, you cangradually turn that dial if
maybe that habit isn't exactlywhere you want to end up.
So like maybe you're really goodat endurance, but you want to
get stronger.
Mm-hmm.
Well start with some endurancerunning and then some body
weight stuff at the end orsomething like that.
And then you can kind oftransition into weightlifting

(47:25):
over time.
So just, just throwing that outthere.
As far as like, I think so manypeople think of self-discipline
as this gold standard where youare doing shit you hate in order
to get a result you want.
And there may be times wherethat's necessary, but maybe you

(47:46):
should try to do things that youlove that can help provide
consistency.
To get a result that you'rehappy with?

Tali (47:55):
Oh yeah.
A really early podcast of ourswas like following the joy.
Mm-hmm.
Like, do what you're excited todo.
And we talk about this a lotwhen it comes to nutrition, that
the best diet for you is gonnabe one that you'll stick to.
Mm-hmm.
If you're hating it every minuteof the day, then it's probably
not gonna be something thatyou're gonna do very well or be
interested in putting in theeffort to do.

(48:17):
But I feel like I had a goodexperience today that kind of
speaks to this effective versuspainful progress.
We went over to some new friendsof ours', new gym that they have
been, you know, coaching folksin town.
It's primarily a kettlebell gymand my experience with
kettlebells has been exclusivelythrough CrossFit.

(48:38):
So swings, clean snatches,goblet, squats.
But I've never done like.
Kettlebell solely.
And I know it's its own sportand everything, but I really
don't know much about it.
And so even though I know allthese handful of movements,
there's kind of like theCrossFit way of doing them and
then there's like a real way ofdoing them.

(48:58):
And I noticed today just likeworking out alongside these
folks that there's a real way ofdoing it that I don't know.
But you know, we were looking atthe board at the workout that
they had planned and it was kindof like the 12 days of Christmas
where you have this big longlist of things to do and you
kind of work your way down, butyou also like boomerang back up
in the other direction.
So you get in shit ton of reps.

(49:21):
And I have been doing CrossFit,you know, for the last couple of
months, like very consistently.
And we've been doing lots oflike short, fast metcons.
And this one was predicted totake us about 50 minutes.
And when I heard that, I waslike, okay, I have to really be
thoughtful about how I'm gonnago about this because I have a

(49:44):
tendency to.
Start quickly and move quicklyto where I won't be able to
sustain that energy for a longerworkout.
So I had to be really thoughtfulabout the weights that I chose
today.
At first, I was like, Ooh, thesefeel kind of light.
But as you saw towards the endof the workout, I was, you know,

(50:04):
form was still good, but I wasworking my ass off.
And you know, having to kind ofteeter between effective
movement without kind of leaningtoo far into the painful side is
like, you also have to checkyour ego a lot.
Yeah, there's a lot of likeexcitement and maybe even like

(50:26):
negligence that can have us fallinto that trap.
But a lot of times I think it'sego where like, I should be able
to do that.
I've, I have been able to dothat before where mm-hmm.
It's easy to forget like who youfucking are right now.
And so, I knew that I was gonnabe out of my element.
I knew that I was gonna beworking longer than I usually

(50:48):
do, you know?
So I had to be really thoughtfulabout the choices that I was
making, and wonderfully I wasable to stay with the same
weights the whole way through.
I was, I was pretty proud ofthat.
Mm-hmm.
And it made me think of anotherinstance where back in the day I
went to a friend's.
Bar three class.

(51:08):
Do you know what bar is?
Yeah.
Okay.
So I had a coworker who likecame to one of my craft's fit
classes and I went to her barclass that she taught and they
give you dumbbells forparticular movements and the
heaviest weight is like fivepounds.
Right?
And I was like weightlifting atthe time and I was like, oh
yeah, obviously I'm gonna choosethe heaviest weights.
And turns out it was like thehardest thing I've ever done.

(51:32):
You're holding your arms out byyour sides and just kind of like
pulsing up and down, like whenyou're in this kind of like sumo
squat thing for a really longtime.
And so I felt like an assholefor, you know, thinking that I
knew what I was getting intowhen I really didn't.
It was my first time going to abar class.
What do I, what am I doing?
Choosing the heaviest weight?

(51:53):
So stupid.
Even a weightlifter can gettheir ass kicked by five pound
weights.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's just a partof what I was saying before.
I've been really.
Thinking about this concept alot about developing or like
just becoming more in tune withourselves.
Yeah.
You know, being able to makeadjustments and corrections as

(52:15):
things go.
One thing when I was a coach inCrossFit that really drove me
nuts, is that people a lot ofthe time were very unwilling to
make any changes to theirworkout as they were doing it.
Even if their form was going toshit, even if they were no
longer getting the stimulus ofthe workout.
Mm-hmm.

(52:35):
Even if, you know, they wererunning well over like the time
cap or something.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that rigidity, that'swhat gets you injured, that's
what stalls your progress.
Yeah.
You know, you've gotta be agile,you've gotta be fluid to course
correct.
Mm-hmm.

(52:55):
I think that's such an importantpart of any pursuit.
Is that you just have to be ableto ramp it up and dial it back.
Yeah.
Kind of.
And developing that, that rubricfor yourself can be really hard.
Mm-hmm.
But it's super valuable to payattention to.

Cody (53:12):
Yeah.
It goes back to the know thyself.
You know, the better you knowyourself, the better you can
make those adjustments withwisdom.
Yeah.
You, you had mentioned the, themore consistent you are, the
more you'll know that.
Yes.
And that's one thing I loveabout the No Days Off approach.
Yeah.
Is that you start to reallylearn like what you need and

(53:32):
listen to your body and not yourego, which there, there's a fine
line because sometimes your bodywants to stay in bed and you
need to.
You need to ditch that shit.
You know, like I've been doingthe cold shower thing lately and
I started with hot showers andthen I would just like, oh, 30

(53:53):
seconds at the end, turn thecold on, you know?
And it was like, well thatsucked.
And now I'm doing this thingwhere I get out of bed and I go
straight in there and get coldwater right on my face and try
to control my breathing anduntil my breathing regulates,
like that's kind of my rule isI'm not, oh, I'm not allowed to
get out as long as I'm stilldoing that uhhuh.

(54:14):
So I have to stay in that andendure the suck until I'm able,
I'm able to regulate my own

Tali (54:20):
breathing.
Have you seen progress there interms of like how quickly you
can make that happen?

Cody (54:25):
I have, and I've also seen kind of a tipping point where
after about a minute and a half.
There's no difference between aminute and a half and like five
minutes.
Like there gets to be a pointwhere it's like, well, this
isn't a big deal anymore.
You know what it's like it'scold, but so what?
It's cold.
You know, you

Tali (54:43):
know what this reminds me of is remember that scene in
Fight Club?
It's in a, it's a great scenewhere Brad Pitt pours whatever
that shit is on Edward Norton'shand.
Do you remember what it is?
It gives him a chemical burn.
I forget.
Pours something on his hand andhe's like holding him down so he
can't escape.
And he's like, I have whateverit is that's going to make this

(55:07):
stop burning, but I'm not gonnagive it to you until you like,
calm the fuck down.
Hmm.
I can't say that I am interestedin taking cold showers.
The lesson of like, thatpatience and that control over
yourself is very intriguing.

Cody (55:25):
Yeah.
To me.
Yeah.
But the reason I bring it up isthat like, that's a little bit
of sort of like a pushbackagainst my inner bitch kind of
thing.
And sometimes when I'm in thereand I'm gonna, I'll just be
really vulnerable here, ready asa dude, you know, I'm supposed
to be lord tough andself-discipline and everything.
I'll tell you what I think abouta lot of times when I'm in there

(55:45):
is other men I know that aredoing it.
Oh.
Like I think of sometimes it'slike Joe Rogan or something, but
sometimes, like my friend Greg,like I know my Greg's my friend
Greg does seven minutes of coldevery morning and I'm like,
well, he's doing, I know he'sdoing, I know he didn't skip
today.
There's no reason for me to getout of this fucking shower no
matter how bad I want to.

(56:06):
That's cool.

Tali (56:07):
That's inspiration.

Cody (56:09):
Yeah.
But that's kind of an example oflike, sometimes it's good to
like listen to your body and notyour ego.
You know, maybe it's not a goodday to max out on the weights,
or maybe it's not a good day todo CrossFit at all.
Maybe you should go on that 20minute walk and just take a day,
quote, unquote off to do somelight activity.

(56:30):
Sometimes you have to just say,wait a minute, is this my, is
this what my body needs?
Or is this just my sort of innerbitch, like trying to get me out
of this?

Tali (56:39):
So there's like a series of questions, I guess, to ask
oneself, but the, it's the notnever doing nothing is kind of
the, the basis of it all.
Yeah.
Like that's kind of thenon-negotiable.
Yes.
And then from then on is likecreating like, or it's more
nuanced, I guess.
Yeah.
After that point.

Cody (57:00):
So every once in a while I might miss that cold shower in
the morning, but if later on I'mtaking the hot shower, I'll
still end with cold just to makesure I did, I did it, I did it
that day.
Mm-hmm.
So it's kind of another never donothing situation where
sometimes it's pretty intenseand sometimes it's less, but I'm
never gonna just skip it.
Same with the workouts, samewith all the practices that I'm

(57:21):
trying to get into my life.

Tali (57:22):
Well, speaking of practices, the last note that we
have here is about greasing thegroove.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm gonna let you take thatbecause this is actually.
Something that I'm doing at all.

Cody (57:32):
So the term grease, the groove is from a blog post
article from quite some timeago.
I mean, this is maybe 15 yearsago.
Is is been around a while.
If I can still find it, cuz itis such an old article, I will
link to it in the notes.
Cool.
So check out the showdescription in whatever app
you're listening to this in andcheck for that link cuz I'll,

(57:55):
if, if I can find it, I'll putit in there.
And it's basically a guy whowanted to improve his pull-ups,
but he was having a hard timewith the program in the gym.
He just felt like he was stalledout.
He couldn't get past a certainnumber of pull-ups.
And so what he did is he had a,I think if I recall correctly,
he had like a woodworking shopin his basement or something

(58:16):
like that.
And it was some reason that hewent down there every day and he
had a pull-up bar installedabove the stairs like going.
Down to the basement.
And so every time he went up anddown the stairs, he had to grab
that pull-up bar and just do onepull-up.
Now this was a guy who wascapable of doing like 20, I'm

(58:39):
just making this up cuz it'sbeen a long time since I read
this article, but he could domore than one.
But the point was, is that hewas going to do a very minimal
effort, but make it such aroutine that he was getting a
lot of frequency in.
So several times a day he wouldget one pull-up, and over the
course of like a month or more,his pull-ups that he was able to

(59:02):
do in the gym when he went toactually go and work hard on
him, dramatically improved.
And so he kind of coined thisterm of like greasing the groove
or sort of like if you have adrawer that's sticky and you put
wax on it and you all of asudden you can slide it in and
out really easy.
He's talking about that formovement of just like practicing
a movement enough that it justbecomes a little smoother.

Tali (59:25):
So I actually conducted a similar experiment myself not
having read this article, butmany years ago where I had a
pull-up bar in my doorway and Ihung a pair of rings from it
thinking I would do like a dipNice.
Every time I would pass throughthe door.
And then very quickly they justbecame something that was in my

(59:47):
way.
Decorations.
Yeah.
And like walking through adoorway with rings when I was
super annoying.
So I didn't really you know,take full advantage of that
situation, but I had the sameidea.
Yeah.
Cuz that was a movement that Ijust like, could.
Not do.

Cody (01:00:02):
Yeah.
So what I'm doing right now iswell I wanna talk about two
different experiments.
So one is the current one thatI'm doing, which I have a list
that I'm calling Grease theGroove.
And the reason it's a list isthat there's like a handful of
movements that I used to be ableto do pretty well or at least
was like fairly conf competentin doing that I can no longer do

(01:00:25):
or do well.
My muscle ups are gone again.
This is like the fourth time inmy life that I've like gotten
muscle ups and then lost'emagain.
And so right now I'm practicingthe components of those by just
doing like five pull-ups, whichis a pretty minimal effort for
me.
And five dips, which is actuallykind of hard, but they're

(01:00:46):
getting easier on the rings and.
Practicing pistols.
Still practicing pushups, eventhough I've gotten better at
those just because it's, I'vefound a lot of benefit in just
doing a few reps every day.
So there's this short list ofitems that I'm doing every
single day, but the whole list,even though it's like eight or

(01:01:09):
nine movements, I mean, it's, itlooks like a big list, but I'm
only doing a few reps of each.
So it literally takes 10 minutesor less to grease the groove and
get all these things in everyday.
After only about a month ofdoing that, maybe less, it has
not been that long.
Three to four weeks.
The other day I'm dealing with abit of a back strain, so I've

(01:01:31):
been backing off of my workoutsand kind of doing some easy
stuff lately to let my backrecover.
Way to know thyself babe!Mm-hmm.
But I'm still doing, you know,the daily movement stuff.
So I did a workout where I woulddo some sort of back therapy.
It was planks, snow angels.

(01:01:51):
Quadriped stuff.
I have videos for all thisstuff, so I'll link to some of
these exercises if you'recurious.
And in between each of thoseexercises, I do five pull-ups.
So I ended up doing six sets offive pull-ups, and at no time
were they stressful at all.
Nice.
So I think that just kind ofgoes to show the whole benefit

(01:02:12):
of the grease, the groove thing.
But I want to give anotherexample because I really want to
drive this point home.
I think so many people get inthis head space of what it takes
to be effective, and they thinkthat you have to push hard, you
have to exercise all thisdiscipline, you have to work
hard, you have to, I, you know,all these things.

(01:02:34):
Attributes that we should all,you know, maybe strive to
develop.

Tali (01:02:37):
I would say you have to work but maybe not hard all the
time.

Cody (01:02:41):
And this is the thing, is that still work?
I think we underestimate whatsomething can do and so people
get this all or nothingattitude.
I'm, I'm either gonna hit thisworkout or take the day off and
they don't consider the factthat just doing the warmup has a
lot of benefits of just doingthat 10 minute warmup, even if
you're not able to do the wholeworkout that day.
This is something we, we coachour clients in quite a lot,

(01:03:04):
especially our remote clientsthat we don't get to be hands on
with.
Cuz a lot of, because they can'tmeet us in a gym.
Yeah.
They're not meeting us in a gymand a lot of times they have
like crazy work schedules orillnesses or injuries or
whatever that come up andthere's the tendency to just not
do the workout.
And so really try to drive thispoint home is that you do
something like, don't throw awaythe.

(01:03:27):
Opportunity to move your bodyjust because you can't do the
whole thing.
And a great example of this iswhen I first started to develop
this idea of a daily practice,minimal effective dose kind of
thing, I was experimenting witha bunch of different things,
meditation, writing.
One of those things was guitar.
And I had so many things on thelist cause I had like 10

(01:03:47):
different things I was trying todo.
Mm-hmm.
And it was such a long list thatI couldn't, I could not practice
guitar for a half an hour everyday.
There was no way it was gonnahappen cuz I was also trying to
work out and write and do allthese other things.
So my minimum threshold was fiveminutes.
And it is shocking what fiveminutes of practice can do over

(01:04:09):
the course of say, three months.
Mm-hmm.
It is absolutely mind bogglingbecause we don't think of five
minutes as being an effectivepractice at anything.
And I'm just telling you, if youhaven't tried this, try it with
some skill you're doing, whetherit's fitness or, or drawing or
music or, or whatever.

(01:04:29):
Or even like connection withyour partner.
Like take five minutes of likelooking in each other's eyes and
talking without a fucking screenin front of you.
Like try, try a practice of fiveminutes a day and look at the
amazing difference in your lifethat it'll make in three months.

Tali (01:04:48):
Well, I can speak to that when it comes to what you were
just saying about looking ineach other's eyes.
You know, you and I have had tosqueeze in romance in, in little
moments.
You know, we used to work crazyschedules and now we're working
crazy schedules again.
Mm-hmm.
And it does so much for ourconnection to one another and

(01:05:12):
just feeling present.
You know, it's easy when youlive with somebody for you to
just.
Kind of become satellites, justkind of bumping into each other
and and just to not be present.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we got, we've gotlives to be living and it's easy
to just be living amongst eachother rather than with each
other.

(01:05:33):
And, you know, even earliertoday, we just took like 10
minutes.
That's all we had, but it wasgreat.
Mm-hmm.
It was really great.
I'm so happy that we took thetime to do that and we've come
to really appreciate even thelittle bit that we can get.
Yeah.
And I think that gratitude, youknow, that's something that if

(01:05:54):
that's gonna be a byproduct,then it's worth it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

Cody (01:05:58):
Yeah.
One other aspect that I'vewritten about this in my book,
So if you haven't read the book,it might be valuable to just
look at this section.
There's, there's free versionsof it everywhere.
So I've tried to give this away.
It's not like a sales pitch hereto get my book, but I talk about
this sort of minimal effectivedose and the power that it has

(01:06:19):
and if it's implied, if it'sapplied consistently, like every
day, a practice, every day.
And one of the things that Ifervently believe is that if
you're gonna spend, let's say,70 minutes of practice doing
something per week, that 10minutes a day for 70 days is far

(01:06:43):
more effective than one sessionof 70 minutes.
The guitar is a perfect examplebecause it's just a physical
limitation.
If you are learning at aninstrument like that in 70
minutes, what's gonna happen isyou're gonna have this sort of
peak learning learningexperience.
The first few minutes you'regonna warm up within, especially

(01:07:03):
a brand new.
If you're brand new to aninstrument, you know you're
gonna get hand cramps or mouthcramps, or whatever the
instrument is, like, you'regonna be really uncomfortable in
about 15 minutes.
Hmm.
You might have a learning curveof that.
That first 20 minutes is prettyproductive and then that starts
to really drop off after 20minutes cuz of fatigue boredom,

(01:07:24):
fatigue, frustration mentalclutter.
Maybe you're learning too muchat once and you just can't
retain it.
So there's a big drop off inyour learning curve, both with a
skill or knowledge set after avery short period of time.
Whereas if you maintain a reallyshort practice, there's so many
things that it's gonna do foryou.

(01:07:45):
First of all, you don't hit thefrustration cuz in five minutes
you can only get so frustratedin five minutes.
Mm-hmm.
The second thing is, yourretention's gonna be better cuz
your, you're getting a littlebite.
Bits of information and you'resleeping on that information and
then practicing it again thenext day.
And that tells your brain thatthis is important.
If you do something once andthen you don't do it for a few

(01:08:05):
days, your brain's like, well,that was an anomaly.
Hmm.
And it's likely to just forgetwhat you've learned, or at least
part of it.
You, you don't get physically astired in each session.
And by doing this consistentlydaily, again, you're kind of
teaching your brain that this isa priority.

(01:08:25):
This is kind of, you're startingto identify yourself as somebody
who does this thing.
And so I just can't stress itenough how important it is to
get a small daily practice infor the things that you want to
improve or change in your life.

Tali (01:08:42):
I have a question for you.
Mm-hmm.
This keeps coming up as you'retalking about it.
I've been thinking a lot aboutsomething I mentioned on one of
our coaching calls.
The other day about how it wasalways kind of wild to me that I
was able to retain so muchCrossFit skill, even though I
wasn't training in CrossFit.
Yeah, that's because I wascoaching it and I would have to
demonstrate it.

(01:09:03):
Yeah.
Pretty regularly.
But it wasn't every day.
You know, the thing aboutCrossFit is that there's so many
different things to get good at.
So I'm curious what yourthoughts are on how, if this
factors in or if this is anexample of what you're talking
about.
Because, you know, I'd be ableto demonstrate handstand pushups
and toes to bar knee to elbowsand headstands and stuff, even

(01:09:25):
though I was a weightlifter atthe time.
Yeah.
I wasn't doing any of that shit.
Yeah.
But,

Cody (01:09:30):
well, there's, there's two things at play that we haven't
already mentioned.
One is carryover.
So in some of the things thatyou're talking about, if you,
let's say you build up to apoint where you can do a
handstand pushup or a set ofhandstand pushups.
And then you switch toweightlifting, but you're still
doing clean and jerk and you'restill doing snatches, you're

(01:09:52):
still doing overhead work.
Mm-hmm.
And elding a lot of capacity inthat weight overhead.
But you already had the skill ofbeing able to do handstand
pushups.
Well, there's carryover betweenthe two.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's the first thing isthat there's carryover.
And even within CrossFit, if youare doing a lot of the really
basic essential movements,they're gonna carry over to

(01:10:12):
other things.

Tali (01:10:13):
And that's why they are the The foundational movement.

Cody (01:10:16):
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing is it dependson the foundation that you
started with.
And this is true in, I thinkthis might be sort of a
universal truth when it comesto, Ooh, how we are as human
beings.
Someone who has been incrediblyfit for 15 years.

(01:10:41):
And then takes six months off,we'll be able to come back as
long as they're smart about it.
Come back gradually, six monthslater and build on a strong
foundation that they alreadyhad, right?
Mm-hmm.
But someone who's only workedout six months in their life and
then takes six months off,they're gonna be coming back
pretty much at square one, likestarting over.

(01:11:03):
There's practically no benefitto the first six months that
they had, cuz they've probablylost it in the next six months
that they took off.
And so some of it has to do withthe foundation that you built
ahead of time in your ability toretain those.

Tali (01:11:15):
What about someone who wasn't fit for many years and
then was really fit for like 10years mm-hmm.
And then took three years off.
Sound familiar?

Cody (01:11:26):
Yeah.
But you, I think you, the, thefrustration that you might be
feeling is comparing yourself toyourself.
Comparing yourself to yourselffour years ago.

Tali (01:11:37):
Yeah.
I would say That'ss wearing off.

Cody (01:11:40):
Yeah.
But I, my point is, is thatcompare yourself to the general
public and you're still wayfucking ahead because you still
have that 10 years of foundationthat you built for yourself.
So,

Tali (01:11:52):
well, it's like the, the exercises that I did today at
the kettlebell gym.
Yeah.
There were a lot of newmovements, but I had capacity
enough, I had enough capacity tonot only hang with the workout,
but mm-hmm.
I learned new movements todayand was able to do them.
Yeah.
Over and over again becausethere was some sort of
familiarity there.
Yeah.

Cody (01:12:10):
Well, and even the movements that you feel like
you've lost a lot in yourweightlifting movements, for
instance, you're still way aheadof the average Joe who comes in
to coach to get coaching fromus.
You know, you're still like,whoa, you're still impressive to
them because they didn't see thepeak and compare you now to your
peak.
You know, they're, they compareyou now to everyone else they

(01:12:30):
know who can't even do a snatch.
You sure.
You know?
Sure.
So, You kind of, sometimes youhave to get some perspective
there as to where you're at.

Tali (01:12:38):
Well, I have been leaning really hard into the belief that
I can come back stronger.
Oh yeah.
I was saying that today when wewere working out with Rachel and
Jason, that I feel like 32,being 32 years old, it's a
really good time.
Not for a comeback, but for asecond wind.
So I feel like, you know, I, Iput a lot of work into my

(01:13:00):
twenties.
Mm-hmm.
Physically, and then I, youknow, took time off with covid
and transition and shit.
And now I feel like energized tolike, build up again.
And I do feel things comingback, maybe not faster, but I

(01:13:21):
don't know.
I feel like it's goingsomewhere.
I feel like I've built up enoughmomentum to not be worried about
it anymore.
There was a point in time whereI was like, Ooh, I'm never gonna
get over this hump.
Mm-hmm.
It's always gonna feel hard, butI think we've made a lot of
really great moves to make thathappen that we've mentioned

(01:13:41):
today.
Like structure.
Mm-hmm.
Being one you know, we've beendoing CrossFit main site stuff,
which is a great resource.
There's always somethingavailable to do, managing the
intensity so that we can keepdoing it.
The cool thing about Main Sitenowadays is that it gives you
like two to three tiers ofscaling options.
Of scaling options.

(01:14:02):
Yeah.

Cody (01:14:02):
So I don't think they're always the best option.
So it's still, I think it'sstill valuable to get a coach or
get the knowledge yourself to beable to scale for yourself.
Well,

Tali (01:14:12):
I still wish, but there's some ideas I still wish.
When a workout is written on theboard, there is more of an
explanation of what it's tryingto appeal to.
Yeah.
I think that can really makebetter decision makers out of
athletes.
Yeah.
As opposed to just kind of likesuffering through it.

(01:14:33):
So that's, that's been great forus.
And then creating communityaround it.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we have somebody whocomes to our house three days a
week.
We know we have to be down thereat a certain time to do the
workout.
Like, that's accountability,that's energy, that's community.
I'm all for it.
Yeah.
I think we've really setourselves up well.

(01:14:54):
Yeah.
And we're, you know, we've gotsomething to build off of now
rather than just like you and Iexisting in a vacuum.

Cody (01:15:02):
Yeah.
That's hard.
Yeah.
It's important.
You know, this whole podcast hasbeen about making change and
making sustainable change andyour approach to making change
in your life.
And I think giving yourself theproper environment is huge.
Not just having the rightequipment or workout space,
that's part of it, butsurrounding yourself with other

(01:15:23):
people who are on the sametrajectory or who can encourage
you.
You know, in the last two weeksI've started setting up a
mastermind group of mm-hmm.
Men who are trying to like,achieve some change in their
business lives and also in theirhealth and fitness and that kind
of thing.
And the idea is to hold eachother accountable.

(01:15:46):
Like, these are the practicesI'm trying to do, and if I don't
hit at least 80% of thesepractices in the week, then you
get to call and bug the shit outof me the next week to make sure
that I'm on track.
And I love that, kind of do thatfor each other.
So there's lots of ways ofbuilding or getting a coach or
whatever.
So there's lots of ways ofbuilding an environment that
makes self-discipline easier.

(01:16:09):
That's the thing.
I think that is kind of the maintheme of this whole hour that
we've been talking is likeinstead of fighting to make
yourself do things and use thisidea of self-discipline, all
these like harsh words of likeharder, harder grind.
You know, do this thing that youknow you need

Tali (01:16:28):
to do and like lost.

Cody (01:16:30):
Yeah.
Big stakes.
Maybe yourself.
Yeah.
Maybe ask yourself, how can Iget this result easier?
Or how can I start this practiceeasier?
Set the bar lower, do a smallincrement, slowly bring, you
know, dial up the heat.
It's

Tali (01:16:45):
kind of the same thing by another name, don't you think?
You're kind of tricking yourselfin a way.

Cody (01:16:51):
It is, but I think there's ways, I, I just think that it
requires more self-discipline todo things on your own full steam
right from the start.
Make a drastic change.
Don't take anything else outtayour life.
Just try to add something else.
Like all these mistakes peoplemake because they think that
they, it is just a moral flaw.
Like, I have a moral characterflaw of not being disciplined

(01:17:13):
enough to do this thing.
And maybe it's just yourapproach.
Maybe instead of beatingyourself up about not being
disciplined enough, maybe whatyou need to do is figure out a
method that's going to allow youto.
Ease into something and get theball rolling and build on that

(01:17:33):
momentum over time.
Yeah.
In a strategic way.
Get help, get coaching, getaccountability, get a, get peer
groups, get an environmentthat's comfortable.
Do things that you are wantingto do, not just things that you
think you should have to do.
Yeah.
Start small.
Like all these things are juststrategies for implementing this
change.

Tali (01:17:53):
Yeah.
This reminds me a lot of, whenyou and I first got together and
I was under the impression thatgood relationships take a lot of
work.
Yeah.
And you had just said somethingso simple, like it could be
easy.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, what?
No, that's not what I've beentold my whole life.
Or Yeah.
Have, you know, seen from otherfolks.

(01:18:17):
It's a really different way ofthinking.
It's really kind of a bummer tothink that we.
See ourselves as only making, orit's just a really common belief
that to get where we wanna go isgonna be a really tough road.
Mm-hmm.
Not to say that life won't betough.
Mm-hmm.
It will be.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But it doesn't have to beinherent to the experience, or

(01:18:39):
it doesn't have to be inherentto success.

Cody (01:18:41):
Yeah.
And this, well, and this isn'tto downplay the role of hard
work either, you know, like,

Tali (01:18:47):
oh yeah, you're gonna be doing stuff this whole time.
You're gonna be challengingyourself in making decisions and
putting an effort and makingsacrifices.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (01:18:57):
But it's a matter of, of finding that sweet spot of
challenge that's not breakingyou.

Tali (01:19:02):
Yes.
Yeah.
Not creating additionalsuffering to the, the things
you're already gonna be bendingyourself to be doing.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (01:19:11):
Yeah.
Well, and the thing is too islike suffering as a, like, look
at suffering as a skill.
Rather than throw your deepyourself into the deep end of
the pool and say, I'm gonnasuffer through these hard
grueling workouts and if I canjust make it past 90 days, not
only will I be in amazing shape,but I'll be such a badass that

(01:19:31):
I'll be able to just take thesegrueling workouts for the rest
of my life.
Cuz you probably won't make it90 days.
Mm-hmm.
Instead just find that sweetspot where there's like a little
bit of a challenge and then thenext day that same little bit of
a challenge.
And then the next week maybeit's a little bit more of a
challenge.
And that

Tali (01:19:50):
can even be broken down on the dial into smaller pieces.
Like if you look at any givenMetcon that has like three or
four movements.
Yeah.
Give yourself one of those tolike push the envelope on not
all of them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, you wanna be able tokeep moving and you're gonna be
like circling back to thesemovements.

(01:20:11):
If you don't have any relief atany point and that whole thing
is a slog mm-hmm.
You're probably not gonna get alot out of that workout other
than bumping up against thatwall all the time.
And that doesn't like create theenergy about like, to wanna come
back the next day.
Yeah.
That's a big part.
Or to feel

Cody (01:20:26):
good about your work.
Yeah.
That's a big part of this.
Yeah.
Like making things pleasurableenough that you're gonna want to
do it again instead of you haveto do it again.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Tali (01:20:37):
I feel like this is the first podcast that we've ever
really circled back to ideas andconcepts that we've talked about
before, but it's cool that, youknow, through our coaching that
we've been doing lately and ourtraining that we're coming up
with new ideas around it.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's really awesome.

Cody (01:20:57):
Yeah.
Some of it's just a reframing oflanguage, I guess.
But but it comes with

Tali (01:21:02):
experience, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's really fun.
I feel like a lot of our topicshave been about our work in the
past.
Mm-hmm.
And now we have a lot of reallycurrent work that we get to
reference.
Yeah.

Cody (01:21:14):
Yeah.
I mean, this whole never donothing thing.
I told you today that yesterday,yesterday we just mismanaged our
time.
And so we didn't get movement inyesterday.
No.
That was my first break though.
That was my first do nothingday.
After a 19 day streak, boop.
And.
I'm not trying to like bragabout this here.

(01:21:35):
I'm just, as an example.
Brag babe.
Just as an example though, isthat I stressed my back out
about two weeks ago now.
I think it's already been twoweeks.
And so that 19 day streak waswith an injury that I'm still
trying to nurse through.
Totally.
But even so, I got, you know,some pull-ups don't hurt.
So pull-ups in.
I got some planks and I got alot of walks and a, you know, a
walk.

(01:21:56):
We live on the side of amountain, so a walk is a hike.
Like there is no such thing asjust an easy walk.
There's always a hill involved.
But that was 19 days straight ofsome intentional activity, even
with something that I could haveeasily used as an excuse to just
set it out.
Yep.
Yeah.
So again, I'm not, I'm nottrying to brag, it's just like
an, it's just an idea that weshould embrace of, of just

(01:22:20):
letting go of this all ornothing attitude.
And something is not just betterthan nothing.
It's like infinitely better thannothing.
Oh yeah.
So do something.
Do something doable, dosomething pleasurable, and then
just build on that as momentum.
Steady as she goes.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Feel good about this?

(01:22:41):
Oh yeah.
I'm gonna wrap it up.
Yeah.
Okay.
It was great to be here.
Yeah.
It's good to be back.
Mm-hmm.
I will see you next week.

Tali (01:22:49):
You're gonna see me all week.
I'll see you

Cody (01:22:51):
all week, but we'll see all these people listening next
week.
Yeah.
Okay.
I love you, baby.
I love you too.

Tali (01:23:00):
This episode was produced by Tali Zabari and Cody
Limbaugh.
Check out our writing, coachingservices and home studying
adventures at live all yourlife.com.
For show notes, resourcesmentioned, or to submit a
question or contribution, clickon the podcast tab.

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