045 Correcting Our Own Faults (In A Healthy Way)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tali (00:16):
I am Tali Zabari.
Hi, I'm

Cody (00:18):
Cody Limbaugh.

Tali (00:18):
Welcome to the Live All Your Life podcast.

(00:43):
Rolling.
Hi honey.
Hi.
How you doing today?
Good.

Cody (00:47):
Yeah.
What was your favorite part ofthe Matrix?
Four

Tali (00:52):
Oh.
Oh, like of that specific movieUhhuh.
Okay, so the end credits no, I,I have a hard time answering
this only because I reallydidn't pay that much attention

(01:12):
to this movie cuz I was kind ofchecked out immediately.
Oh gosh.
Maybe the Neil Patrick Harrisparts, like he's a very
endearing guy even though he wasthe villain.
Yeah.
Ooh, spoiler alert.
Oh, sorry.

(01:33):
Sorry.
I, yeah, I like him as an actorand so I thought it was fun that
he was in the movie.
Mm-hmm.
Other than that, I was not intoit at all.

Cody (01:47):
Yeah.
I was supremely disappointed.
Supremely.

Tali (01:50):
Okay.
Yes.
Well, I'm glad that you're on mylevel cuz I felt bad for ragging
on it as much as I was and wehad watched it in two
installments.
So I would say there was likemore opportunity to rag on it
than with most films becausethere was a a few days where we,
you know, took a break from ituntil we could watch it again

(02:12):
and I was really resistant andhad a lot of reasons to not
watch it.
So I apologize if I ruined thatfor you.

Cody (02:21):
No, I don't think you did.
I just think there was a lot of.
Cheap, cheesy dialogue,storyline, everything was very
surface level, which is o theopposite of what you expect from
a Matrix movie.
Right.
Especially after waiting 20fucking years for one.
It just annoy it.
It was, it was verydisappointing to me.

Tali (02:41):
Well, there's a trend right now to reboot a lot of
these stories.
You know, star Wars mm-hmm.
Is one of them, you know, toappeal to a new generation.
Yeah.
And, and I haven't

Cody (02:52):
been keeping up on all the Star Wars stuff, but I, I've
been told it's really good.
Yeah.
That's the thing, is that atleast that it seems like they're
going deeper into storylines onthat, whereas this seemed super
surface level like and

Tali (03:07):
kind of what, I don't know if frivolous is the right word,
but it was like, what's thepoint?
Yeah.
This doesn't add anything.
Yeah.
It didn't add anything.
And the original is so genius.
Yeah.
That.
I think it really should havestood alone.
I might have even said that inthe last podcast that we

(03:27):
recorded, but none of the otherslived up to it.
No, they really didn't.
No.
And I think that everyone in thefilm industry should just hear
this loud and clear that ifyou've got something great, like
don't fuck with it.
I know there's like more moneyto be made and sequels to be
made, but come up with anotheridea or buy a new idea or

(03:51):
whatever it is.
But yeah, it kind of cheapenedthe whole series.
Yeah.
I had wanted to see the secondone for such a long time because
I had missed, I had attempted towatch it a few times when it
first came out and you know, forone reason or another, things
got interrupted and I never gotto finish it and I was

(04:14):
disappointed.
Yep.
Yeah.
So yeah.
No when to end it, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jerry Seinfeld 1 0 1.

Cody (04:26):
Leave on top.

Tali (04:28):
Leave on top.
Exactly.

Cody (04:29):
Well, since today's topic was your idea, you want to
introduce where we're at cuz I'mnot sure that you and I are
interpreting things the sameway.
So I'll let you start and thenwe'll see where it goes.

Tali (04:41):
Okay.
Sorry, I'm wincing cuz I justlike popped something in my
wrist trying to readjust and owthat hurts so much.
Okay.
So I thought of this when I wason a walk with a new friend the
other day.
And I, I'm not exactly sure howthis came up, but many times on
this podcast I've alluded to myquote unquote breakup with

(05:05):
weightlifting.
And that was really nothing todo with the sport, but it was
more about like leaving my teamand ending a relationship with
my coach.
It is also a very good friendand it's.
It, it was a pivotal moment forme my involvement in this sport

(05:26):
and I've been kind of trying tofigure out how to interact with
it ever since in a way thatfeels good and that I can build
off of.
But the whole story came up andthis friend of mine had kind of
a similar story in a differentsport.
And I just started to noticethat the way that I was feeling

(05:48):
about the whole situation or theway that I was telling the story
was kind of stale.
I've had conversations aroundthis so many times and the thing
about telling stories that canbe gone unnoticed, I think is
that, you know, over time wehave opportunities to change the
way that we feel about things orsometimes time itself can heal a

(06:12):
lot.
And I just.
Was able to throw in anotherelement to this story where it
was, you know, I was able totake some accountability for my
own actions.
And the way that I had put itwas, you know, I, this could
have been alleviated with aconversation.

(06:33):
And instead I decided to justlike, burn it all down.
I just decided to send an emailto quit and leave with a lot of
drama, you know?
And I know that severingrelationships in a dramatic way,
or in an or a very final way issomething that I'm at fault for

(06:59):
multiple times in my life, andthat's not something that I
wanna be known for.
It's not something that I wantto do anymore.
And so there was just adifferent air to the story to
end it.
Like, you know, I, I wish Iwould've handled that
differently.
Mm-hmm.
Because, I don't want to feel atthe mercy of the narrative that

(07:21):
was true to me almost four yearsago now, or probably about four
or five years ago now.
Mm-hmm.
And so the topic for today thatI wanted to explore is what do
we do when we learn about ourown bad behavior or qualities of
ours that we don't resonatewith?
Or if we've ever gotten critiqueabout the way that we handle

(07:44):
something, what do we do withthat information?
What can we do with thatinformation?
And in that story, my toxictrait is to sever relationships,
ask questions later, you know,rather than maybe giving that
per person the benefit of thedoubt or maybe taking a
preliminary step that could havechanged the tides.

(08:09):
Yeah.
So does that clear it up foryou?
A bit.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think there's still a lot ofdifferent ways to interpret the
sort or circumstances.
The, it hindsight, I mean, youhave some distance now.
Oh yeah.

(08:29):
So I think that helps.
But I was thinking about asimilar concept to this, just on
a little kind of stranger level.

Cody (08:39):
Stranger, stranger the other day.
I just think it's, I've beenkind of thinking about
consciousness a lot lately, and,and these are, you know, the
idea of what consciousness ishas alluded philosophers and
scientists alike for centuries,and I think it's kind of strange

(09:01):
that we have this duality aboutus.
Like that there are certainthings about ourselves that we.
Don't agree with or don't like.
And it just seems like an oddthing to, to be in one's head
and disagree with yourself onsomething.
It's just a very bizarre conceptif you think about it.

Tali (09:20):
Well, there's so much conditioning that we are
responding to, and as we getolder, like new ideas, new
opportunities or circumstancesallow you to reflect on that and
be like, Ooh, this doesn'treally fit.
Mm-hmm.
Or the way that I'm acting isprobably more appropriate for a
kindergartner.

(09:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That I wish people would tapinto a little bit more.
Yeah.
And they realize that.

Cody (09:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Well I think that your questionlike what do we do when we
discover something aboutourselves that we don't agree
with is, is that kind of thegist of what you're.

(10:08):
Yeah.
Say it again.
I

Tali (10:09):
don't agree with or have outgrown or it's not serving us
anymore.
Mm-hmm.
I wish it were as easy as justto be like, well, I'm not gonna
do that anymore.
Yeah.
It's not that easy.

Cody (10:21):
Yeah.
We are patterns and we behavelike patterns and the deeper
that groove has been, the harderit is to get out of the pattern
for sure.

Tali (10:31):
But even to, I don't know if it would be taking it a step
further, but like you can reallychange the narrative of your
past as well, which I know we'vetalked about on the podcast in
terms of how we wanna feel aboutthings.
We have opportunities to changethat and it can also change the

(10:51):
way that we see our past orexperience our past and let it
influence our futures.
You know, there was a long timewhere I've told that story, but
I was still so angry about itthat I never saw my part in it
or.
You know, whether it waswarranted or not.
Like this is something thatcomes up a lot as kind of a
debate in this story of whetherit was the right thing to do or

(11:14):
not, or, you know, they neededto know what they were doing
wrong or mm-hmm.
They didn't deserve my effort orloyalty or whatever the fuck it
was at the time.
I feel like all of that doesn'tmatter because I can't control
any of those people.
I can't control anything thatthey think about me at this
point.
All I can do is, you know, I'vebeen trying to reconcile for

(11:37):
this for fucking years now, andI'm like so tired of it.
I'm tired of that being mystory.
And so, yeah.
I'm just trying to think aboutlike, what are the opportunities
here that it can afford us?
Yeah.

Cody (11:54):
Well I think the obvious answer is just to try to
recognize it sooner the nexttime something like that comes
around.
I know that one of the thingsthat I've.
I mentioned before as well, butI, it's kind of something that's
on the forefront for me over thelast few years is that a lot of
the conflicts that I'veencountered in my life, I would

(12:17):
say most of the bridge burningtype of conflicts with friends,
has been a fault of mine, of theneed to be liked causing me to
be either non-communicative ormiscommunicated.
And I use that word because I,I'm never intentionally
dishonest, but I think in mypast, my need to be liked has

(12:40):
caused me to like skirt aroundthe truth or skirt around
conflict to, to the detriment ofthe relationship, to the, for
sure, to the point where I ameasily demonized in.
Certain circles for takingcertain actions that were
misunderstood or Totally.

Tali (13:02):
Or you really thought was probably for their

Cody (13:04):
benefit.
Yeah.
I've done many things where Ithought I was trying to do
something for someone's benefitand then they end up kind of
like throw a lot of hate my way.

Tali (13:14):
I would definitely say that that's the same in this
situation.
Like the only reason I waspushed so far to quit is cuz I
didn't say anything before then.

Cody (13:23):
Well, that may be a little bit of a revisionist version of
history too, because I remembermany conversations of you being
dismissed like that.
That was the whole point of alot of the conflict was that you
were very well, I thought therewas a lot of coaches were very,
your coaches were verydismissive of you even though
you had as much or moreexperience than all the coaches

(13:47):
on the team.
Like you were, you were.
Sort of an unequal status roleas far as your experience level
in your coach and age and allage and coaching and everything.
Yeah.
There was like no reason forthem to have, so this sort of
like superiority complex overyou.

Tali (14:01):
It's true, but like if you remember, I ended up calling my
coach for a chat after the dustsettled cuz I just like couldn't
fucking sleep after that.
And I think about what if I hadthat conversation as ugly as it
was, it was not a productiveconversation.
Mm-hmm.
But what if I had had it beforeI quit?

(14:24):
Yeah.
You know, that's the problemwith this way of handling it, is
that I have like declared mystance, drawn my line in the
sand, thrown them out, and thenI'm kind of like, oh, I'm sorry,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Let me explain myself.
Yeah.
I

Cody (14:42):
guess I thought you had, I thought you had tried to
approach it before.

Tali (14:47):
There had been times in the moment mm-hmm.
When that, when instances likethat happened, like being shut
down and like publicly shutdown, which was very
embarrassing and kind ofshocking to me when it happened.

(15:09):
But I can't say that thoseresponses were probably very
good on my part, either likeacting out of a place of
embarrassment or anger orwhatever.
Mm-hmm.
Like, those aren't productiveeither, you know?
Like I never set boundaries andI think that that only comes
with experiences like this.

(15:30):
And I wanna respect that too.
Like, I don't want to cover upwhat took place or how I felt
about it or try to change thatnecessarily, but I'm also aware
that.
There is a part that I'm notproud of that I would like to
change moving forward.
And so it's not to erase whathappened or not to, you know,

(15:55):
explain it all away.
It's just, I, I'm so tired ofbeing angry about it and I want
to know, okay, how can I usethis experience?
Cuz it's affected me reallydeeply.
And I, my next is just my nextnote is just like, I guess you
just try better next time.

(16:16):
Like, knowing that aboutyourself.
Yeah.
Like knowing that I stuff thingsdown in order to appease other
people.
Mm-hmm.
And to be liked, like you weresaying.
But if something pisses me off,rather than just be like, well,
I just have to swallow this or,you know, I'm not paying a fee.
So I, I probably should not saysomething about this to like,

(16:39):
keep my good standing or like,whatever it is, or, you know,
save the relationship or keepthe relationship in a good
place.
I don't think I'm gonna do thatanymore as a result.
Yeah, I feel like I've taken alot of risks since then because
of that dynamic.

Cody (16:58):
Yeah.
I mean that probably helpscontribute to your you know, we,
we talked about on our episodeof setting Boundaries.
I think this came up, but youare much more communicative now
with your employers than I thinkyou have been in the past with
other employers because you'vealways, you've kind of had a

(17:20):
tendency to look at thoseauthority figures and just be
like completely subservient tothem.
Like, you don't want to ask fora change in schedule or time off
or a change in duties oranything.
It's more just like, whateverthey ask of me, I will say yes
to.
Well, I think that has so muchto do with who you work for too,

(17:40):
and like what kind ofenvironment.
Oh, for sure.
Setting.
Like Jody, my boss now, she, Iremember I brought something up
about holiday pay last year, andshe's, I, I don't remember
exactly what the situation was,but she was like, this is an
exchange of service.
Like I pay you for the work thatyou're doing.
Like you absolutely are like,bring these things up to me

(18:04):
whenever.
Mm-hmm.
Where.
In other jobs that I've hadbefore there just seems to be
this expectation or this air oflike, you do whatever we ask,
even if it's not in your jobdescription or whatever the
cause you're lucky to be here.
You're lucky to be here.
And this is kind of the firstjob where that has not felt like

(18:27):
the case.
And I think a lot of it has todo with where we live in a way.
I think there's just a reallydifferent attitude about the
value of work and that peopleare really seeking, like a sense
of freedom where we live.
And I wonder, I don't know,maybe there's also more of a

(18:50):
scarcity mindset too, here.
Like you don't get.
You're pick when it comes toemployer employees, like it's
really hard to get employeeshere.
Mm-hmm.
Who are good employees or haveeven just enough to cover your
operation.
And so maybe in the city there'sthis feeling of like, you know,
you probably experience this inla It's like, if you don't like,

(19:11):
you know, if you can't hang thenlike there's 50 other fucking
people Yeah.
Firing for your job.
Yep.
Always.
But I kind of look at jobs thesame way now and I didn't used
to when I was younger, it waslike terrifying to think of
losing a job and Yeah.
Through experience, you know, Ifound that there's always

(19:33):
another job around the corner,like no matter what the
economy's doing, you know,there's all these scare tactics
being used in our society allthe time to kind of keep you on
edge because it sells ads, butyou know, in the news and that
kind of thing, but, There'salways a way to make a living

(19:54):
right around the corner.
So it's changed my view of thatemployer employee relationship
quite a bit over time.

Tali (20:02):
But I know of that, but I don't wholeheartedly believe it.

Cody (20:06):
I know about it.
I think it just takes practice.
It does.
Like I've had enough jobs nowto, and I don't think I've ever
been unemployed longer than Iwanted to be at any given time,
except for maybe when I was veryyoung living here.
And I think that's probably someof what causes that fear as

(20:26):
well.
Cuz when you're 17 or 18 orwhatever, like maybe you don't
get whatever job you, you know,The, the options are more
limited because you have verylimited experience.
But I feel like the older youget, the easier it is for people
to just bring you on up to apoint.
I'm sure there's some ageiststuff in there when, when I'm 60
I might not feel the same way.

(20:48):
Yeah.
But, but there's always incomeopportunities outside of jobs
too.
Totally.
Like look what we've, what we'vedone in the last several months,
you know, we've are building anonline company, but we decided
to get some local clients to,for lots of reasons to keep our
coaching experience alive andengage more with the community

(21:10):
and that kind of thing.
But there's we didn't reallyhave to fight too hard to kind
of get to where we're at reallyas far as our local business.
And that's already replaced myincome that I had at my job.

Tali (21:22):
So, well kind of, I mean, we've got some clients dropping
off and that's kind of thenature of revolving

Cody (21:27):
door.
Yeah.
What's that?
There's always a revolving doorin all business.

Tali (21:30):
It's true.
And that's the part that I.
That's the part of jobs that youdon't experience.
Mm-hmm.
And so that experience can bereally nerve-wracking.
It's kind of weird how I'mdrawing this illusion right now,
but I'm thinking about thatlittle documentary I watched
yesterday on Aaron Carter whopassed away earlier this year,

(21:56):
or maybe it was last year, 2022.
Yeah.
Pop star kid, like, came to thescene when he was like nine.
And so there was kind of, therewas a part of the story that I
thought was most interesting andI've been wanting to talk about
it, how there's, you know, he,he rose to the top so fast and

(22:16):
he's one of those artists, I'msorry to say, kind of like Lenny
Kravitz, where he tried to liveoff of the same music he did
forever ago.
Mm-hmm.
Lenny Kravitz is doing it wellthough somehow he hasn't come
out with new music and forever,but like, He has so many bear,
the bangers that we know of,that we know of, I guess.
But with Aaron Carter, he grew,he grew up in the industry and

(22:41):
kind of had this mistaken ideathat like, okay, I'm set now.
Like I made it on these charts.
I put out this great album andthen like didn't create anything
for a really long time after.
Mm-hmm.
And was kind of confused by howthere wasn't really any
opportunities coming his way.

(23:02):
And that's a thing I, I mean,there's a huge difference in a
job.
And having your own business,your own business, it never
fucking stops.
It never ever stops.
And with a job you can clockout, you can have your own life
separate from it.
And those are like modes ofoperation.

(23:22):
Like that is a way of thinking,a way of living your life.
And they're really different.
They're really different.
Yeah, but you've been doing itfor such a long time that I
think it's a much morecomfortable place for you to be
operating from where I've, Ilike that kind of like sense of

(23:47):
freedom away from my job.
Like if I know if I'm not there,I can fuck off and do whatever I
want.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas with a business, there'sgoing to be like constant guilt
that you are not working on yourbusiness should you choose to,
like, well, you just have tohave a free

Cody (24:02):
afternoon.
You just have to draw your ownboundaries around that though,
you know, that's, that's justpart of the deal.
You know, I try to stayproductive Monday through Friday
and then, you know, try to cleanup some loose ends on Saturday
and try to take.
Sunday's off, you know, that'sthe, the current schedule that
we're gonna try to meet.

Tali (24:23):
Well, I'm glad that you're actu that we've we're talking
about this now because itactually came up into my notes
when I was kind of thinkingabout like toxic traits or you
know, thinking about this topicin general.
And I was recalling theconversation that we just had
yesterday where we talked aboutsome of these dynamics where

(24:44):
like there's part of ourbusiness and the way that we
operate that I really don'tresonate with that, like, does
not feel good to me.
Makes sense to me.
And wanting to lean harder into,even though it's our own
business, it's still structuredkind of like a job.
Mm-hmm.
Where it's time bound, it'sthrough a brick and mortar.

(25:05):
It's not something that can bedone anywhere in the world,
which I know is really importantto you.
And that is, I wouldn't saythat.
The fact that I lean into, it'sthe toxic trait.
It's maybe more that like youand I have made agreements that
might not fit with what I amcomfortable doing.

(25:27):
Mm-hmm.
Or like doing so that kind offelt relevant in a way because
it's not really a trait that Ilike about myself needing that
much structure.
And so we're kind of left withthe same question.
It's like, well, what do you dowith that?
What do you do now?

Cody (25:49):
Well, you have to ask yourself what changes you want
to make.
You know, you want to be thetype of person who can be
productive and confident andcomfortable with less structure.
And if it's a yes to thatquestion, then start to seek the
tools to develop those qualitieswithin yourself.

(26:12):
Mm-hmm.
And if the answer's no, thenit's just like, well, what are
the consequences of that?

Tali (26:17):
For sure.
Right.
And I think that the, it'sreally important to assess like,
what, what kind of response isappropriate when asking that
question.
Because when I think about thewhole weightlifting team thing,
I've suffered so much from that,that was my own doing that
suffering.
Mm-hmm.

(26:37):
You know?
And I don't wanna live life likethat.
I don't wanna feel like I'm atthe mercy of my default or the
way that I just naturally reactto things.
Like if I actually have a handin creating a situation or like

(27:00):
moving through a situation moreproductively, like how Awesome.
Of course not every opportunityyou're gonna be afforded with,
like people who are gonna beresponsive to that.
Sure.
And it's very likely that.
Even if I did address all thosethings, I would've left the team
anyway.
I'm very aware of that being apossibility.
Mm-hmm.
Or leaving my coach, my team hadnothing to do with it really.

(27:24):
But the whole way that it wentdown and the way that I handled
it, I like created my own, liketraumatic situation.
And so now that anytime I startworking with a coach, I get
skittish and mm-hmm.
You know, any whiff of someonetelling me what to do, I'm like
really on edge.
So there's definitely anassessment of like those

(27:45):
consequences like you weresaying.

Cody (27:49):
Yeah.
I think the trick for me isshortening this gap.
You know, it's easy to lookback, easier to look back
several years and say, well,this is the mistakes I made.
I'd like to correct those thingsabout myself.
And I think it's because you cankind of separate your identity,
like, well, that was me fouryears ago.
That was me five years ago.
I know better now.

(28:10):
So let's move forward and try toimprove.
What's tricky is recognizingthose things sooner.
Like, I made these mistakes sixmonths ago.
Let's see if I can learn fromthat.
Or a month ago, or six days ago,or earlier this morning.
You know, like the closer youget to your mistake, the easier

(28:30):
it is, the more difficult it isto break your identity with that
thing.
And so when you identify withyour shortcomings, there's a
natural tendency to want toactually defend yourself.
And those circumstances,

Tali (28:46):
that timeline that you were just discussing made me
think about something that Ieither heard or read.
I kind of remember where I waswhen I was having the
conversation about this, but Ihad heard or read somewhere
about trauma, like severe traumabeing.

(29:09):
Kind of open for being, likewriting itself in your brain.
Mm-hmm.
If you do it within like 30days.
Mm-hmm.
But if you wait after those 30days to like seek counseling,
help, whatever that's when itstarts to change the brain
chemistry or like your responsesare more influenced by that

(29:31):
trauma or you identify more withthat trauma.

Cody (29:34):
Are you saying the longer it's left unchecked, the deeper
the groove?
Exactly.
Basically.
Yeah.
Yeah,

Tali (29:39):
for sure.
And a lot of the times I take onthis attitude of like, well, the
past is the past.
Like I can't do anything aboutthat.
Mm-hmm.
But I'd say that that's moreabout like my own childhood and
like things I was not likeconscious of as a very young
person or like my parents.
Like I can't, that was, that waslike their deal.

(29:59):
Like I couldn't have doneanything about it at the time.
And.
You know, thinking about thistopic now in this context, you
know, looking back can be reallypowerful and really productive,
but I don't think you can make ablanket statement of like,
digging up your past is likealways gonna be a good thing.

(30:21):
I don't necessarily believethat.

Cody (30:23):
No, I don't think so either.
And

Tali (30:25):
because this is a situation where I can change
things moving forward, cuz I'mprobably gonna experience
something like that again.
Yeah.
Especially if I keep beingpolite and, you know appealing
to authority figures or whateverit is.

Cody (30:47):
I just feel like since the.
We're both interested in growingas people and changing.
And it's kind of interestingbecause there's a resistance to
almost, it's almost like there'sthis dichotomy again of this two

(31:09):
consciousnesses living withinus.
Like one aspect is like, well, Ineed to admit my faults, even
though I don't want to, I don'twant to admit that this, a lot
of this was on me.
Yeah.
And there's this tendency towant to defend your position,
and at the same time, there'sthis inner voice that's like
super critical of ourselves too.

(31:31):
And it's strange.

Tali (31:32):
They sound similar, don't they?

Cody (31:33):
It's, well, it's weird that they can sort of be on
opposite sides of the fence.
Like somebody arguing in yourown brain, you know I need to be
better at this.
I need to improve at that.
But then if I, if those faultsare brought up to me, Then I
defend my position, you know?

Tali (31:51):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it makes me think aboutthat exercise that both my mom
and my sister did mm-hmm.
Where they're like, please writeme a list of all of the things
that I've ever done to offendyou or bother you, or annoy you,
or like, what is holding me backfrom being my best self.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, I think it'sreally normal to be really

(32:13):
defensive when you receive thatinformation.
Yeah.
And I remember even asking you,I was like, can you tell me
those things about me?
And like, I put you on the spot,you know, you were very polite
about it.
You didn't really give meanything.

Cody (32:25):
Well, that's, I think I, for me, it feels like I'm pretty
self-critical all the time.
Yeah.
And I think most people are.
I, I, I, I, Can't speakobviously for what's going on in
other people's heads, but itseems like we live in a society
where we're all prettyself-critical.
We're all kind of judgingourselves and wishing we were

(32:47):
more of this or less of that.
And

Tali (32:48):
oh yeah, when was the last time you gave somebody a
compliment and all they saidwas, thank you.

Cody (32:52):
Yeah.
So I feel like the reason whysometimes it's hard to hear from
outside is that it's confirmingthe shit that you're
self-critical.
And then when somebody elseconfirms it, it's like, oh man,
I really am a piece of shit.
You know, like that thing, youknow, harsh.
It's like, it's like it reallyconfirms your fears around your

(33:12):
own shortcomings.
And I think another aspect ofthat is like, sometimes that
self-critical voice is, feelslike it's being amplified.
So, It's almost like the, theidea of being piled on, like if
a whole bunch of people arecriticizing you, it's gonna feel

(33:34):
like bullying, like it's gonnafeel like you're being attacked,
right?
But if you're, if your own innervoice is sort of criticizing you
for something and then somebodyelse brings it up, it's almost
like it's compounded.
That other person has justbrought up one thing one time,
but it's something you've beentelling yourself already.
And so it feels like a piling onof sorts.

(33:54):
Like, oh man, this is likecompounding my own, my own self
critical voice.

Tali (34:03):
I just wanna back it up really quick.
You were saying bullying, and Iknow this is not really integral
to the conversation, butbullying is one of those words
that gets thrown around veryeasily nowadays.
Yeah.
Like too easily in my opinion.
Mm-hmm.
I think bullying really isrooted in malice.
Where if you are sharingsomebody's like shortcomings or

(34:28):
you are trying to like bring astop to bad behavior that is
being inflicted on you, I wouldnot call that bullying.

Cody (34:36):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But I'm just saying it feelslike that if you're, if you're
self-critical and you're tellingyourself, oh man, I need to
improve at this.
I need to improve at this, Ineed to improve at this.
And then somebody else says,Hey, you need to improve at that
thing, then you're like, shutup.
I know.
I fucking hear it all the time.
You know, like, you don't hearit from outside yourself, but
you hear it from in, so it feelskind of like you're being

(34:57):
attacked.
You know, like, well, there arethings that were

Tali (34:59):
critical.
Even what's us come fromyourself that's got nobody.
And then there are things thatwe're cri critical of that do
affect other people.
Like whether it's the way thatyou, like if you yell at people
when you're anxious mm-hmm.
That's different than beingcritical about yourself, of like
what you look like, like thatdoesn't affect anybody else.
You know, that's a differentkind of I would say that's maybe

(35:23):
just as potent, but that'sagain, it like takes us back to
like, well, what do we do whenwe hear those things?
Mm-hmm.

Cody (35:31):
Yeah.
And that's the, that's the trickis to sh is to subvert your ego
enough to be able to hear whatneeds to be heard.
And I think that's a reallyincredible skill to develop, to
be able to take criticism andsay, okay, is this worth taking

(35:52):
on?
Or is this just bullshit thatsomebody else's problem, like
maybe their, their criticism ofme is just of some reflection of
their own weird bias ormisunderstanding.
Well, we sure

Tali (36:03):
project a whole lot onto other people unknowingly.
Yeah.

Cody (36:07):
Well, and we're in a circumstance now where you and I
are both.
Facing a lot of criticism fromsomebody in our lives that is
very ignorant to us.
Like that person has notbothered to really get to know
us or spend any time with us,but she sure has a lot of like
moral judgments against us.
It's like, you don't even know

Tali (36:24):
me.
Like Yeah.
I would say that those, it'slike very unwarranted because it
feels so extreme for how littleinformation or how little of a
relationship there is to go offof.
Yeah.
And so I think that that's kindof easy to shut down in my mind.
I'm not as close to thesituation as you are, but I'm
easily able to dismiss that andbe like, that is your issue.

(36:47):
I know based on our relationshipthat this is like not warranted.
This is not, this is not aboutme.

Cody (36:53):
Yeah.
And I can intellectually dothat, but it still keeps coming
up in my head like a voice Ican't shut off.
And it bothers me because youwere talking about how like the
longer something is notaddressed and the deeper that
groove can get.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm afraid of developingthis pattern.
Like, I think about this everyday and it drives me nuts.

(37:13):
And I don't want, oh, I'm sorry.
I don't want to be thinkingabout it every day.
And it's starting to worry methat it's gonna become this
long-term pattern that you justlive with it.
Yeah.
And I don't want to, I don'twant to, I need to shake that
shit.
Well, maybe

Tali (37:28):
I can give you and little exercise that you gave me
regarding my coach.
Do you remember what it was?

Cody (37:36):
Was it the meta loving kindness thing?
Wish them well.
Yeah.

Tali (37:41):
Wish them well.
Yeah.
Like I had so many reasons to beangry at the time or to think
ill of this person, or to like,chalk up what happened between
us as like character flaws oftheirs.
Mm-hmm.
You know, words like threatened,jealous, whatever, like that
sort of stuff was coming up.
These are not good traits toassume of somebody.

(38:04):
And you know, whether thosethings were true or not.
It's just speculation.
I don't actually know because itwas never shared with me.
Mm-hmm.
What the friction really wasabout.
And so you're probably not gonnaget that information from the
person you're talking about nowtoo, because of their, because

(38:27):
of your, the nature of yourrelationship, the way that they
communicate.
I, I think it's unlikely thatyou'll get the answers that you
want or to really, you know, inmy opinion, you just get the
brunt of the anger because it's,you're around, this person's mad
at other people who are close toyou.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

(38:49):
You're next in line essentially.
But yeah, you used to tell me towish him well, and I can't say
how like far that actually tookanything for me, but I practiced
it.
I tried it.

Cody (39:08):
You know?
Yeah.
It's easy to dispense advice.
A little more difficult to takeit.

Tali (39:12):
It is.
But it also can just kind ofcool your jets in a way.
Oh, yeah.
And I think that that's reallyhelpful.
Yeah.
Especially if you're dealingwith this on a daily basis.
I was dealing with this on adaily basis too.
I would wake up crying.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like it would be, itwas, I think of this as like
even harder than my breakup withmy longest term boyfriend.

(39:33):
Wow.
Easily, easily by far harder.
Yes.
Devastating it.
There are a lot of parallels inthe way that I very much have
questioned like, well, who am Iwithout this?
Mm-hmm.
And like I said, like.
I need to figure out a way tomove forward without letting

(39:56):
this influence, the experience.
My love for the barbell, my lovefor being strong, my love for
competition shouldn't haveanything to do with another
person.
But the fact that I have them solinked in my head to the point
where like I think about itevery time I lift, even still
that's problematic.

(40:16):
There has to be some sort ofseparation.
There more, more coffee.
Thanks.
And so I think a step ischanging the way that we talk
about it, which is what Imentioned in the very beginning,
is that I kind of added thisextra commentary to this person
I was telling about.
You know, I went through kind ofthe, the same narrative that

(40:41):
I've told millions of times atthis point.
But I was able to kind of roundit out being like, yeah, you
know, I was really upset to thepoint where I just like, Burn
the whole house down and I wishI hadn't, I wish I would've had
a conversation first, and I knowthat that's something that I
could have prevented.
Mm-hmm.
That's huge.

(41:01):
Changing the way that we tellstories is huge.
Like, I think about that all thetime in even little instances,
like when I, if I'm talkingabout another person or
something that happened to meover the weekend.
It's funny being in arelationship because I think
having you be present to hear,like me telling the same story
over and over again is almostlike accountability to like, oh,

(41:24):
I should probably have some newthoughts about this by now.
You know, like, you, I dunno.
Being there makes me think like,oh, like what if he's thinking,
oh God, she's telling the storyagain.
Has she not learned anything atthis point?
So it's really motivating, but Ialso notice that like, I want to
be present in the moment.
And I think what that means isthat our.

(41:49):
Maybe the experience hasn'tchanged, but the way that we can
feel about it can change momentto moment.
Mm-hmm.
We're evolving people all thetime and so when I hear people
tell stories the same way thatthey've been telling it for
years, like, this person screwedme over, or this breakup, blah,
blah, blah.
If you don't feel about itdifferently or think about it
differently, like years down theline, think about how that

(42:11):
influences the rest of yourlife.
Mm-hmm.
If we just let these things beconcrete forever, I think it's
such a trap and I'm so aware ofit when I'm hearing it from
other people and I'd say I'mjust starting to do that for
myself and it feels really good.
I think it also shows that likewe are complex beings and it's

(42:35):
kind of a cool moment ofvulnerability with somebody
else, like to admit a fault.
Mm-hmm.
You know, to be like, yeah, Ididn't actually handle it very
well.
Like that was kind of cool.
To share cuz it's way easier tojust like pin the blame on
somebody else.
Yeah.
That person was a dick.
That person wronged me.
But I think you might actuallybe more of an endearing person

(42:58):
when you're not trying to saveyourself and be, you know the
hero of the story or the victimof the story.
Oddly, those things I think arevery close to each other.

Cody (43:10):
Yeah.
And yeah.
But yeah, for sure.
Cause there's a lot of there's alot of victim.
What should I say?
It's like victim shaming is athing.
Like, you know, you some victimof a crime and you don't want
to, like, it's very common forlike a sexual assault.

(43:31):
And it's like, well, sheshouldn't have been wearing
that.
And it's like, what the hell?
Like, how could you say that?
Like, you don't want a victimblame.
But at the same time, there'sthis weird thing in our society
right now where victims are kindof held up as heroes.
Like it's gr it's great.
The, the more victimized youhave been, the more we just
respect you from coming, themore virtuous forward you are.
Yeah.

(43:51):
And it's like I don't know.
It's kind of, it's almost like,yeah, victimhood as a virtue and
it's kind of creating a wholesociety of victims.
Like everybody's got their storyto tell about how they were
disenfranchised or they werebullied or they have to deal
with this illness or that, youknow, it's like, well there

Tali (44:11):
is a certain like, bravery aspect to.
Be a whistleblower.
Yeah.
Or to like, call shit out.
But I, I feel, but there isproblematic, like in my case
where, like I said, I didn't sayanything for a long time and
then it pushed me to a pointwhere my behavior was

(44:31):
compromised.
Mm-hmm.
My integrity was compromised, mycharacter was being compromised
because I didn't act sooner.
I let it kind of poison me tothe point where I was just so
fucking angry.
Yeah.
And then I become the villain inthe story.
Yeah.

Cody (44:51):
You had brought up bullying a little bit ago, or I
did and mm-hmm.
On that documentary you werewatching, what's the guy's name
again?
Aaron Carter.
Yes.
Yeah.
I was, this was not really myera, so I don't remember.
This is one of those

Tali (45:01):
times where our age difference is a little bit more.

Cody (45:06):
But I remember the, them talking about like cyber
bullying, and I haven't heardthat term for quite a while in a
while.
Right.
But the interesting thing aboutcyber-bullying is like, there
used to be this saying of like,sticks and stones may break my
bones, but words c can't hurtme.
And I know that's not completelytrue, but at the same time it's
like, you know, you can just notread the comments.

(45:30):
Well, that was a big criticism,

Tali (45:31):
really.
Like, I mean, that was a bigcriticism in this, or that was
like a.
That was something that wasmentioned in this documentary
that like, they're like, dude,like don't read this shit.
Yeah.
Like people who are moreseasoned or maybe more mature in
the entertainment world, likeknow not to look at that shit.

(45:52):
Yeah.
Like that's just a demonn orjust a shadow of that life that
you just have to expect.
Mm-hmm.
But he grew up in a time wherecyber bullying wasn't a thing.
Like it was new.
His stardom was before that.
Yeah.
And so I think it was just kindof like all the things happening
at the wrong time.
And he was, you know, they talkabout how child stars, they're

(46:15):
like used up or expendable orlike Yeah.
They age out and they're nolonger useful.
There's definitely a lot in thisstory that you have to take into
account re like in reference tohis developmental stages, like
being such a young person.
If this is what they learn, thereal world is like, yeah.

(46:36):
Then well, how can you separateit?

Cody (46:39):
And they're seeking validation in those.
Yeah.
Like whatever the comments arethat's validating me as a
person.
There's three, three sort ofcelebrity type people that come
to mind that have all said thesame thing.
Seth Godden is one.
Gary Vanerchuk and Joe Rogan.
All three of'em say the samething.
Like, don't read the badcomments, don't read the good

(47:01):
ones either.
Because just as bad if you'regetting your validation through
your good comments, that meansthe bad ones are gonna hit you
hard.
Yes.
And you need to realize thatnone of them matter.
Right.
Like, don't read any of your ownpress.

Tali (47:15):
It's a really fucked up value system.
Yeah.
And that.
Is totally true for AaronCarter.
If you think about a performerwhere your validation is through
applause and an audience mm-hmm.
Then of course when you don'thave that, where's your sense of
self-worth?

(47:35):
You know?
And that's what he kept tryingto fight to create over and over
again.
And that's one of the argumentsI have for this podcast too, is
like, I don't give a fuck ifanybody doesn't listen to it.

Cody (47:47):
Well, it's a good thing.
Yeah.

Tali (47:50):
But it doesn't mean it's not valuable because you and I
have our own sense of self-worthand our own set of values and
what makes this work meaningful.
It doesn't have to be dependenton what other people.
Want or get or whatever it is.

Cody (48:07):
Yeah.
Well, I think that kind ofbrings us back to the topic of
today too, as far as like,recognizing faults in yourself
and that you have to figure outwhere you put your, where, where
do you value yourself?
Because I have s I have a coupleof aspects about myself that I

(48:27):
find a lot of personal validitywith intelligence and ethical
standing.
Those two things are very big tome, and I realize that those are
the things that, when those arecalled into question, I get
fucking pissed.
If people are questioning my, mymorality, my, my my intentions

(48:51):
as being bad, it pisses me offbecause I almost like, I always
try to have the best intentionsfor everyone around me at all
times.
So when that's called intoquestion, It, it pisses me off.
And the intelligence thing toohas always been a thing for me.
Like if e when I was in highschool as a kid, whatever, if
somebody treated me like I wasstupid, it, that's, man, you

(49:14):
wanna set me off real fast?
That would, that would be thething.

Tali (49:17):
Is that because there was an, there was insecurity around
these two things?

Cody (49:21):
No.
It could be initially, but Ithink it could also be, because
those are two things I've workedhard Yeah.
To develop within myself.
And, and so it's like we werejust talking about like, if
Aaron Carter was looking atapplause and comments online for
his validation and then the,when those weren't there, then
what do you got?

(49:42):
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like those arequalities of mine that I try to
be proud of or that I try tofind.
Some validation in.
And so when they're called intoquestion, those are sort of my
trigger points of like, man,that's, that's a real quick way
to get on my bad side.
Right?
But that's because of, I'mputting my own value judgment on
those things.

(50:03):
But if it, like, who am Iwithout those two things?

Tali (50:06):
Yeah.
But don't you think though, ifthose are things that you
believe about yourself and whatother people say wouldn't
fucking matter?
Or they wouldn't matter.
Like that's the thing about theperson that you were talking
about before.
It's like, how can you take whatthey're saying seriously about
you if they don't fucking knowyou and you know those things

(50:27):
about yourself.
And that's, I also got heatedtoo when I was being like
criticized for being likeimpolite or rude or dismissive
and I was like, fuck off.
I am.
I try so hard not to be thosethings.
Yeah.
Like to a fault.
Yeah.
Like we've talked about like my.
My downfall of like politeness,like it traps me a lot of the

(50:51):
times.
And so to be pegged out assomething else just was
laughable.
Mm-hmm.
And upsetting.
See,

Cody (51:01):
it was upsetting.
Why it, was it upsetting?
Because

Tali (51:03):
you don't know what you're talking about, lady, but

Cody (51:05):
why did it upset you?
If, if she doesn't know whatshe's talking about, then why
did it upset you?

Tali (51:09):
Well, I would just say it's more upsetting because it's
like, cool, I'm dealing withsomebody who's like really not
reasonable here.
Yeah.
Or paying attention.
They're latching onto somethingirrelevant or that's not
actually happening here.
Mm-hmm.
Which I think is just moredisappointing.
Like, ugh, how are we going tofind common ground?
How are we going to moveforward?

(51:31):
If.
You're seeing shit that's notthere.
Yeah.
And that's not, that's not mejust being like upset about it.
You were there too.
Yeah.
And you know me, you know mebetter than anybody else.
And you were shocked by thosestatements too.
Yeah.
Nonsensical, right?
And so it's just kind of like,ugh.
It just kind of shows like whatwe're up against, which is like,

(51:52):
how do you, how do you play nicewith a moving target?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
My gut would be like, don't playat all.
But that is my toxic trait thatI'm trying to refer here.
I

Cody (52:05):
don't know, I don't know if that's a toxic trait though,
because like there's, you know,8 billion in some people in the,
on this planet, some of them arejust assholes.

Tali (52:14):
You don't share property with all of them.

Cody (52:16):
Yeah.
Well yeah, sometimes you can'tdisassociate from certain
people, I guess, but yeah, Idon't know.
I don't know that it's a.
I don't think, I don't have anymoral judgment against
disassociating from peoplethough, because some people are,

(52:36):
don't want a betterrelationship, don't want to be
cooperative.
Some people don't want the samethings we want, they don't share
the same values that we have oranything like that.
And so it's true.
I think it's fine to cut somepeople off you, you can't win'em
all.
You know, like, well, that's,that's a long standing truth.

Tali (52:55):
Yeah.
Well, I wish I would've askedmyself like, is this a
relationship that I want tomaintain when it comes to my
coach?
And I would have, mm-hmm.
I did not act in that favor atall.
Yeah.
But you know, shit happens whenyou're hurt or desperate or

(53:17):
tired.
Tired.
So fucking tired.

Cody (53:20):
Yeah.
I mean, Sometimes when you'redealing with something the best
way, you know how at the timewith the tools that you have and
it's dragging on and on and on.
Sometimes it's some, I thinkthere's some value in just being
like, yes, you know, I'm just, Ican't do this anymore.
Done.
Yeah.
You know, and it maybe thatwasn't the way you would like to
have handled it in hindsight,but maybe at the time that was

(53:42):
the best tool you had.

Tali (53:43):
It was, and I wrote that in my notes too, as like, we are
all doing the best that we can.
And I would say the only thingthat feels unfortunate about it
is like I sort of sadly wonderwhether or not that relationship
was important enough to theother person to like keep that

(54:06):
door open.
Because that door feels prettyshut to me.

Cody (54:10):
Yeah.
Well I think you felt that atthe time.
You know, you talked about the,the sit down talk you had after
you quit the team and how itjust kind of didn't go anywhere,
like you were talking to a wallkind of situation.
So.

Tali (54:23):
Well, and that was something that I ha that you and
maybe a friend of mine pointedout was like, is is your effort
being reciprocated Right.
To mend the fence?
And it wasn't, even if I was theperson who was in the wrong, I
felt like they were in the wrongin a lot of ways too.
And I guess you would hope thatif the relationship is worth it,

(54:44):
both people would be interestedin mending it.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's still something Iwrestle with cuz it's still a
loss.
But I would say at this pointI'm okay with that relationship
being let go of, I have let goof it.
I've kind of stopped trying andI've.

(55:04):
I still every once in a while,like have dreams about this
person.
But to me it's like, okay, I canmove on from that.
Now I just wanna focus onweightlifting and repairing that
part of the equation.
Yeah.
Because that's really where thesuffering is coming from.
Yeah.
I've never cared about anythingmore in my life and to feel like

(55:25):
it's just fucking gone.
Mm-hmm.
Is weird.

Cody (55:28):
Yeah.
It's a strange trait that wehave the way our brain work is
that we learn things throughassociation and so now you have
this association with this thingthat was dysfunctional and this
thing that you really love andthey're associated with each
other.

Tali (55:44):
But I was weightlifting so long before that.
I know, but with other people indifferent states.

Cody (55:49):
But it's kind of like where you left off, you know?
Well, I like to, it's kindalike, you know, I remember when
I was a kid, I loved spaghetti,like spaghetti and meatballs.
That was like my thing.
Right.
I can't wait to hear this.
Well, one time I had a fever.
And when you have a fever as alittle kid, that usually means
upset stomach.
So I threw up, right?
I just barfed my brains out andit was disgust, spaghetti the

(56:10):
worst, disgusting.
And it was spaghetti.
I couldn't eat spaghetti forlike a year after that.
And it's like, well, all thetimes before I ate spaghetti was
wonderful, but that last timeruined it for me for quite a
while.
And I think it's the same thing.
We associate, we have anassociation on our brains with
things.
And when you have some sort of Ihate to overuse the word, but

(56:30):
for lack of a better term,traumatic, if it's some sort of
like traumatic event yourbrain's deeply impactful.
Your brain's gonna be like, waita minute.
The last time you were involvedin this thing, this bad thing
happened.
So just watch your, your step,you know?
And so every time you like smellspaghetti, you're gonna be like

(56:51):
reminded of that time.
And so.
I, I don't think it's, I thinkit's really an odd function of
our brain that we have toconsciously develop some
separation between those two.
That your experience with theteam, your experience with
competition, your experiencewith training, your development
as an athlete, all the otherrelationships that you had

(57:14):
surrounding that sport all havenothing to do with you and the
coach.

Tali (57:19):
I know that consciously.
Exactly.
That's what I'm saying.
That's why I'm so intent onlike, I wanna start lifting this
week by myself, because that'show it started.
Yeah.
It was just play.
Mm-hmm.
And it was amazing.
And then everything followed.
So I'm trying to kind of like goback to my origins, my roots,
and kind of rebuild.

(57:41):
I have two things.
One, I remember throwing up TopRamen and it was the worst
fucking thing ever.
Pulling noodles out of your ownthroat is so unpleasant.
2, 2, 2.
Oh, hush.
Oh man.
Well, what's the point of longnoodles if you're gonna cut them

(58:02):
up?
It's the

Cody (58:03):
experience of chewing them.
That's whatever.

Tali (58:10):
Second thing is, is, I'm sure you've heard this before,
but there's like a sayingsomething along the lines of
like, it'll take half as long asthe relationship that you were
in to get over the breakup.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm kind of a believer ofthat because I would say like,

(58:31):
down to the week, like that'swhat it was like to get over my
relationship with Alex.
It was like three or four years,but that was half of the time
that we spent together.

Cody (58:43):
Yeah.
That, that, it could be ageneral rule of thumb, but we
have to think about thosepatterns like I was talking
about.
You get in a thinking patternand it can really linger for a
long time.
Cuz for me it was the opposite.
Like my high school sweetheartbreakup was only two like a two
year relationship and I was kindof bent over her for like a
decade after that.

(59:04):
Mm.
Well, we're all different.
Well, I'm just, they'reexception I think.
I think it has a lot to do withyou know, I've learned a lot
since then about how the brainworks and psychology and
everything, and I really thinkit was just patronistic
thinking.
I was just thinking in certainways that started to develop a
groove of how I thought aboutthings and it took a long

(59:26):
fucking time for that to justfade on its own because I wasn't
mature enough to notice it and,and realize that I had had some,
I had some agency over howrepetitive these thoughts were.
Yes, they were just intrusive,repetitive thoughts that I seem
to be at the mercy

Tali (59:44):
of.
Sure.
And there's definitely animportant element of this, of
like having to be consciousabout these things and
reflecting with probably sometools to.
Think about it mm-hmm.
In a different way other thanthis is what happened to me,
this is what's going to happento me.
Mm-hmm.
Whatev, like, there's so manymore possibilities beyond that.

(01:00:05):
You know?

Cody (01:00:06):
That's why this current situation it's upsetting to me
that it keeps coming to mindsort of out of the blue, like
beyond my control.
And it's one of the reasons whyI've been so adamant about
getting back into my meditationpractices and things like that.
Mm-hmm.
Because I feel like that's sometools for, you know, medi.

(01:00:28):
That doesn't mean that's exactlywhat meditation is.
Like your mind wanders and thenyou, you come to the present and
say, It's okay that youwandered, but let's get back to
what we were thinking about thebreath or whatever.
And so it's a practice ofchanging that pattern.
Like, oh, this thing is comingup.
No, I don't really want that.
I'm gonna focus on this otherthing.

(01:00:49):
And just being able to calmlysteer the mind, so to speak.
And so I think it's a valuabletool for being able to let go of
some of these patterns thatcreep up that you don't want.
So I'm really really intent ondeveloping that skill.

Tali (01:01:09):
Well, I think it's normal also that you would still be
feeling challenged by it becausethere hasn't really been a lot
of change.
There

Cody (01:01:18):
won't be, there might be.
There won't be.

Tali (01:01:21):
Well, that is a thought pattern in and of itself.
Yeah.
You know, we have kind of setourselves up for some like
milestones to.
Like kind of track the progressmm-hmm.
Of this challenged relationshipand needing to move forward and
working together.
And you know, I feel like it'sstill kind of early stages of

(01:01:46):
trying to turn it around in away that makes sense to us,
because the way that made senseto everybody else was just to
like, be really hands off andjust like, hope it gets better.
It's like, no, this actuallylike, needs to have some
structure around it and needs tohave conversations around it.

(01:02:06):
And so, yeah, I mean, I wouldsay that the, the possibilities
are pretty slim.
I often feel that way, but it'snot impossible and kind of like
what I say about our house, likeany improvement feels like a
huge improvement, don't youthink?

Cody (01:02:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I'm curious what yourthoughts on are on shortening
the gap between learningsomething about yourself that
you don't value, that you wouldlike to change, and your ability

(01:02:45):
to sort of accept that and notdefend it and move on without
it.
Like any tools that come to mindfor being able to shorten that
gap?
You know, you brought up yoursister and mom doing this,
mm-hmm.
Doing this question of peoplewho are close to them.
Like, what faults do you see inme?

Tali (01:03:06):
And this is not something that they, like, they were
prompted by a program to dothis, right?
Like, I don't think it wassomething that they came up with
in on their own.
Which, you know, that in and ofitself is a tool, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like they went to somethingoutside of themselves to give
them this kind of clarity.

Cody (01:03:23):
There's an aspect to that question, though, that really
you have to, if, if it's gonnabe effective, There's a second
aspect of it where you have tolet go of whatever's gonna be
said before it's even said,because it's really easy to ask
for somebody's opinion and hopefor a certain response.
You know, we all have these likesort of attachment to outcomes.

(01:03:46):
You know, it's a sort of aBuddhist thing, like this.
Suffering is sort of yourattachment to a certain outcome.
And I think it's a really easydefault to ask somebody's
opinion, hoping for a certainresponse.
And then when you don't get thatresponse, you're like, well,
fuck you, then.
You know, like, yeah, that's notthe re you know, that's not, you
were supposed to

Tali (01:04:05):
say, well my good friend, whenever she gives me advice, a
lot of times she's like, do youreally want me to tell you what
I think?
Or do you want support in whatyou think?
And I think that's such avaluable question because some
people do just want whereverthey currently are to be
validated or to be buttressedup.
But If you are really in apickle and want to maybe change

(01:04:31):
your life, like that might meanhearing things that either you
haven't thought of or thatyou're not excited to hear.
Yeah.

Cody (01:04:39):
Or even that you have thought of and you just are
hoping that it's not true aboutyourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well,

Tali (01:04:45):
you know, there's a, it's interesting cuz there's a reason
that I, I haven't asked thatquestion back to my mom and
sister, and that's partiallybecause I, I feel like I know
what they're gonna say mm-hmm.
In terms of like how I make themfeel or ways that I'm standing
in my own way or characteristicsI have that might be considered

(01:05:10):
unfavorable.
I feel like I really know.
What they are.
And you're right, there's kindof a confirmation fear that it
must be true.
It's not just in my head orsomething that I struggle with.
It means that I am alsoinflicting like potential
suffering on other peoplebecause of it too.
Mm-hmm.
And that would just be too muchto bear.

(01:05:33):
But it is important.
I, you know, I asked you thatquestion about what those
characteristics are because Itrust you and I know that it's,
it would be very, I, it's not tosay that it wouldn't be
important for me to like makethose changes for my mom and

(01:05:53):
sister, but like you're mypartner and.
Our lives are far more involvedwith each intertwining each
other than mm-hmm.
Even it is with them.
But you're also very protectiveof me and that's why I don't
think you gave me a straightanswer, but I also didn't tell
you, like, email it to me.
Take your time.
I was like, tell me right nowin, I think we were in the
shower when I asked you.

(01:06:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So not really the bestopportunity.
So, you know, asking others forhonesty might be a good place to
start if you're questioning thatkind of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
I think when you notice itwithin yourself, I think
noticing is a huge part.

(01:06:36):
I'm not quite sure like what theright questions to ask would be.
Maybe like, did the way that Iresponded to that situation
serve me?
Did it serve another per, youknow, if you wanna take it out
of your own scope, you know, didit serve them?
You know, just trying to likesee how your way of being

(01:07:02):
affects other people, I think isreally important to take into
account.
You know, there's people thatI've known that I am and that
I've seen, I've seen on realityTV a lot where it's like, how do
you not see that you are thecommon denominator of like, all
this fucking drama?

Cody (01:07:22):
Well, we know people like that in our real lives.
We do.
Yeah.
Certain relatives of mine thatare just like burning
relationship after relationshipand just like, why can you not
see that you, you're theepicenter of all this chaos.
Mm-hmm.
Holy.

Tali (01:07:37):
Or that like relationships are being severed with you.
Like it's not a coincidence thatit's more than one person.
Yeah, it's, yeah.
I haven't really had thatexperience.
I haven't had relationshipssevered with me.
I've severed relationships withother people and.
It's less about them, it's beenmore about me not really like,

(01:08:01):
willing to step up to the plateto be vulnerable or to ask for
what I want or what I need or tolike, please don't do that.
And I've also had that modeledfor me.
You know, one of my parents isan expert at this.
I've seen it so many times, andthe language used around it has
always been very severe.

(01:08:23):
Mm-hmm.
And so it's not a foreignconcept to me, but I think that
question of like, is thisserving me, not only can be a
like used or applied when youare in the moment, but also
reflecting on the past, likewhat I was saying about telling

(01:08:45):
the story differently.
You know, there's probably gonnabe a time where I reflect on the
story entirely differently withwhat happened with my coach.
But right now I'm just kind ofadding a footnote to what was
already existing and said forsuch a long time that there's

(01:09:06):
room to like creatively feeldifferently about it.
And I think that that's whatdevelopment and presence, how
that's really pronounced, iswhen you're open to identifying
those things and sharing it.
Like making it publicly known.
Mm-hmm.
You know, something in realitytelevision that's like so

(01:09:27):
sickening to watch.
Is that people will double downon their bad behavior.
And what they mean by that islike, rather than after like the
shit storm has happened and likeeverybody's kind of like given
their 2 cents on it.
They dig their heels even moreto justify the bad behavior.
And that's not something I'mwilling to do.
That's, I feel like a directresponse to the question is

(01:09:49):
like, what do you do when youhave bad behavior?
Either pointed out or recognizedwithin yourself.
Doubling down is not the way todo it.
Do not solidify that part ofyou.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like what a trap thatcan become.
It kind of reminds me of thatgame I don't think you've played
it before, but it's calledlandmines.

(01:10:10):
It's drinking game and you playwith cans of beer and you like
what is it like you have to spina quarter and you have to like
chug your beer for as long asyou think the can, the coin is
gonna be spinning for and.
I can't exactly remember how itworks.
We can link to the rules.
It's a fun one, but essentiallythe table becomes filled with

(01:10:33):
what are called landmines, andthese are like cans of beer.
Mm-hmm.
And they more readily knock thecoin down.
So your turn or whatever is likeshorter and shorter and shorter.
And it makes the game moredifficult.
And it just kind of seems likethat is what would happen kind
of mentally.
If you hang on to these storieswithout revision or growth or

(01:10:55):
opportunity.
You're just gonna have thesekind of like solid unmoving
pillars in your mind that you'realways gonna have to like, work
around and they're gonnainfluence the other structures
in your life too.
It's like the deepening of thegrooves.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Like they're gonna be these bigruts about how you feel about

(01:11:15):
people, how you feel aboutyourself, you know, like if I
ever feel.
Embarrassed or like wronged inthe future.
Am I gonna respond the same waythat I'm not proud of?
Fuck no.
Like, that's, that's how yougrow as a person is like, you
try on a different way.

(01:11:35):
If you just keep doing the sameshit over and over and over
again, you're not gonna be avery dynamic person.
Mm-hmm.
Down the line, you're probablygonna have a lot of bitterness
in you.
And that is not an attractivequality to be around.

Cody (01:11:48):
No.
These are all personal valuejudgements though.
You know, some people put ahigher value on being right than
being happy or being Um-huh youknow, steadfast in their certain
belief system as a moralimperative, even if it's making

(01:12:08):
them miserable, even if it'sruining relationships or
whatever.
Like, we all have differentvalue systems, so, You know, for
you and I being a dynamic,growing, changing person is a
value that you and I both have.
It's one of the things thatattracted us to each other, I
think, is that yeah.
We are not interested in beingstatic type people who,

Tali (01:12:30):
and but that's in the execution.
Like there are underlyingbeliefs and then endless
possibilities of how to exercisethem.
Mm-hmm.
Where I feel like this is kindof the criticism that we've
talked about with religion.
It's like, there, there's avalue system, which is all good
and well, but then when there'sthese rules around it and only

(01:12:51):
one right way of doing things,that's when it becomes so rigid
mm-hmm.
That people are like, drivingthemselves crazy and like
vilifying other people and like,it's my way or no way.
Like, that's not a way to live.
It's

Cody (01:13:04):
really funny with the, a Abrahamic religions too, the
three big ones.
Mm-hmm.
Because they're all, they, they,it's like there's only one way.
Except that there's like 5,000different versions of the one
way.
Like what are you talking about?
There's

Tali (01:13:18):
so many different.
Well, and that's how somethingreally beautiful can be kind of
turned ugly, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like the, the values of Jews,Christian Muslims, like there's
so much at the core of it that'slike very loving, accepting,
whatever.
Mm-hmm.
But think about the way thatthese actually are practiced.

(01:13:38):
Yeah.
People kill each other over thisshit.
Mm-hmm.
That's, and they have been forcenturies.
Yeah.
Right?
And that's not in alignment andthat's just like the same kind
of pillars I was explaining inthe mind.
Like there's just this rigidityin the way that we operate
sometimes.
Maybe it's because we're allworking jobs and like that kind
of set it and forget it thingwhere we're not being really

(01:14:00):
conscious about what we'resaying or how we're spending our
time, like moment to moment.
I think it really takes having alot of presence to.
Be able to like, create ourlives and create our worlds.
And if we think of things asabsolutes forever or like always

(01:14:23):
think that, you know, a, areally like simplistic way of
thinking about this is, if Ithink of every coach that I'll
ever work with is gonna screw meover, whatever, then I will
never have the pleasure ofworking with a coach again.
Mm-hmm.
That's, I'm gonna suffer forthat.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that's not true.
This was one instance.

(01:14:44):
Mm-hmm.
One time in my life.
It is not a reason to shutmyself off or make a villain out
of every coach that's out there.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I would feeldevastated if someone felt like
that about me as their coach.
You know, ruin the experiencefor them.
Yeah.

Cody (01:15:05):
Well once again, you know, we circle all back to this over
and over again, butself-knowledge is yeah.
The key to it all.
And know thy self is anadmonition, but it's like
there's a lot to that.
Knowing yourself, there's somany aspects to ourselves and
ways of building awareness and

Tali (01:15:28):
Well, and knowing inside itself is not static either.

Cody (01:15:30):
Yeah.
Well, and we've talked about acouple of those things, like
recognizing when something isjust a groove and a pattern, and
does that pattern and thatgroove and that way of thinking
about this thing serve you?
Or is it productive at all inany way?
For anyone?
And just

Tali (01:15:45):
like with the hiking.
Mm-hmm.
I know this has come up a lot,but like, this is also part of
this conversation too.
It's like, I people say hiking,and I like, Ooh, I like make a
face.
Mm-hmm.
I have created this pattern thatlike, I have an adverse effect.
We went hiking yesterday,fucking loved it.
I was so excited to be out therethe whole time.
Yep.

Cody (01:16:05):
Yeah.
You gotta high from it.

Tali (01:16:06):
But it's to the point where it's become a part of my
identity.
Like, it's also something thatlike people pick fun at me for.
Mm-hmm.
At this point that like, oh,she's such an indoor girl.
Oh, she wouldn't last twoseconds out there.
Oh.
You know, walking on your ownproperty isn't really a hike.
You know, like that's the kindof stuff that like becomes
embedded in our character.

(01:16:29):
Mm-hmm.
That doesn't have to be there.
It's like not real, you know?
And I have to just think aboutit.
Like, the next time hikes comeup, I'll just have, instead of
like saying what I normally say,I'll be like, yeah, I went on a
hike last weekend.
It was awesome.
That's how you can like mm-hmm.
Change the tides.
Mm-hmm.

(01:16:50):
Like, try to catch yourself inmoments where you are repeating
yourself and ask like, does thisstill fit me anymore?
Yeah.
Is this worth carrying forward?
Yeah.
I think that's still valuable.
And I know I've, I've been ableto correct myself in the moment
sometimes being like, Ugh, thisis something I've said so many
times, it's probably not trueanymore.

(01:17:10):
Mm-hmm.
And that's just like a halfwaypoint to being able to change
the narrative completely.
Yeah.
It's so powerful and so freeing.

Cody (01:17:18):
I mean, that's how I've been with social situations too,
because there was it was time inmy life when I was like
committed to social interactionsthat I, that was just a, I I
didn't ask for the commitment.
Let's just put it that way.
Like I was married to someonewho said yes all the time to
every, you married two peoplelike that potential.

(01:17:42):
Yeah.
But it's a little different withyou and I cuz you don't expect
me to just be there.
You invite me, like, Hey,there's this thing that's going
on.
I already said yes.
Would you like to come?
Whereas in my previous marriage,it was expected that we're
going, if one person said yes,that means we're both going.
And so I, you know, and so she'dtell other people that I was
gonna be there and stuff likethat.

(01:18:02):
And it's like, ah, and I gottiring.
And so there's this introvertedaspect of myself that just has a
knee jerk reaction of saying noto every potential social
interaction,

Tali (01:18:16):
including possible watching Vanderpump rules with
my friends.

Cody (01:18:21):
You know, I just hate, I hate the

Tali (01:18:22):
show, but here you are.
You're saying it again, you'resaying you hated the show even
before you had watched it.
Yeah.
One so landmine.

Cody (01:18:30):
I don't need to see every episode to understand that.
I don't like the show.
Two.

Tali (01:18:34):
Two is that you ended up watching the after show with me.
And it was so fun.
Right?
I think our right, our

Cody (01:18:42):
perception of that experience is very different.
You think because I was so whydon't you get up and go.
I was zoned out.
You were hated it so much.
I was just sitting with you.
I was just zoned out half thetime not even watching it.
That I was not

Tali (01:18:53):
even watching it to me.
You actually were watching itbecause you had made, I made two
comments on, on an hour longshow.
I'll never forget those twocomments I zoned in out.
But my point is I just thinkyour

Cody (01:19:04):
perspective is so funny had some invitations to social
interactions lately and I'vebeen saying yes.
Yeah, that's true.
And that's because I am, Irealize that knee jerk reaction
in myself isn't necessarilyindicative of the type of person
I want to be.

Tali (01:19:25):
Yeah.
Well we've talked about howthere's so many of our Instincts
that are so outdated in terms ofsafety and fear and whatnot.
And I, I've always applied thatto dating, like I Sure, I'll go
on a date with you.
I don't know what going on adate with you is like, so I

(01:19:45):
might as well find out ratherthan just being like
presumptuous or assu, like makeassumptions and close myself off
to things.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I think it lends tobeing a more optimistic person
if you can start to dismantlesome of those rigidities within
ourselves or things that wethink are truths about

(01:20:07):
ourselves.
The, you know, bad behavior isnot a sentencing.
Mm-hmm.
Conditioning is not asentencing.
These things are pliable, butyou have to do something about
them.
And it's so cool when youactually approach them because.
You know, if we just let thesethings sit, like life becomes
really predictable, right?

(01:20:28):
Every time somebody asks me on ahike, I'm gonna say no.
Every time you get asked to dosomething, you're gonna say no.
Every time I lift weights, I'mgonna flashback to all this
drama.
Mm-hmm.
Like, that's not fucking fun.
That's such a boring life.
Like, why not createpossibilities for ourselves or

(01:20:48):
make a new if we have thechance?
And I think just knowing thatyou have the chance, like this
is something that I hope peoplelisten to and are like, Ooh, I
never thought that I couldchange that narrative for
myself.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And that's why I think truecreativity really

Cody (01:21:03):
lies.
Yeah.
They say you can't change thepast, but you can change your
interpretation of the past orreframe it or think about it in,
in different

Tali (01:21:12):
perspectives For sure.
Or traits about yourself thathave been there forever.
Mm-hmm.
They're not for life if youdon't want them to be.
I sure hope not.

Cody (01:21:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I try to look at I think I may,I don't know if I mentioned this
in the previous podcast or if Iwrote about it, but somewhere
you know, I try to look attraits as skills.

Tali (01:21:42):
Hmm.
Well, cuz you've put in a lot ofhours, I'm sure.

Cody (01:21:46):
Yeah.
But I think a lot of people, ora lot of us tend to look at
personality traits as that'sthings you're, those are things
you're born with.
Like, that's who you are.
You're, you are your personalityand if you are that thing, it
sounds like something that can'tbe changed.
Cuz that's just, that's who youare.
Just like a rock is a rock and atree is a tree.
And that, that's what's

Tali (01:22:07):
problematic about the Zodiac is that it's all like
this predetermined stuff that wesubscribe to and it's like,
well, that's just me.
Yeah.

Cody (01:22:16):
I'm in Aquarius, so there I go.
But I, I do buy into it.
I tend to look at personalitytraits even as a skill, as a set
of skills.
And so you can choose to developcertain skills or let go of
other patterns.
Mm-hmm.
But it does take a lot ofconscious awareness, consistent

(01:22:37):
awareness, consistent effort.

Tali (01:22:39):
I like to think it's a lot easier than that cuz I think
just being aware of it when ithappens you're gonna notice it
and it's kind of like there'sthis like little moment of
friction like, Ooh, I did itagain.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you start to pick up onit, it's like, oh shit, I
actually do that a

Cody (01:22:54):
lot.
Well, and that's kind of goesback to my question of like, how
do you, how to shorten thattimeframe be between noticing
something in yourself that youwould like to do differently.
You know, it's one thing to lookback on relationships from six
or seven years ago and be like,well I could have done that
better, you know?
But What about in the moment?
Well, there's a

Tali (01:23:13):
couple of things.
I think for one, you have toalways realize that the ball is
in your court.
You do not have to wait onsomeone else's actions to
retract something that you saidor apologize for something
you've done.
As soon as it comes to you gofor it.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Like, just practice that muscleof like, Take back or Yeah,

(01:23:35):
whatever.
Like it's kind of juvenilesounding, but like changing
course.
Yeah, changing course.
And like being okay to do in themoment.
Like, ooh, actually you knowwhat, I didn't mean it the way
that it came out, or I didn't,you know, I don't actually think
that way or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Like if you catch yourself inthose moments, and rather than
just letting it fucking, likesit and linger, be like, Ooh, I

(01:23:57):
actually like that came outreally automatically.
I'm not sure why.
You know, if you aren't sure whybut that's not actually like
what I mean to say, or I'dactually like to feel about it
differently.
I feel like I say that a lot,like, I would like to experience
this differently.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that you're justfeeding possibility when you're

(01:24:19):
saying things like that.
And in a way I think it candevelop your relationships more
too, because you're showing thatthere are there.
Is a dynamic part of you thatcan change moment to moment.
And so you yourself are not likean immovable object.

(01:24:40):
You're somebody that can have,you know, a changed mind,
develop ideas.
I think it's a really goodquality in somebody when you see
that.
It's rare, but I have seen thatand it's like, whoa, you're an
interesting person.
Mm-hmm.
Because like, you're willing tokind of let go of all of these

(01:25:01):
things that so many of us arekind of like held down to, or
tied to or plagued by.
Mm-hmm.

Cody (01:25:06):
But that goes back to what I was saying of you and I really
place a value on that.
You and I place a value on beingdynamic and changing, and you,
we feel like we only have one goaround here in this life.
So why, why live the same lifethat you started when you were
20?
Totally make it different and,and, and experience as many
things as we can.

(01:25:26):
And that means being willing togrow and change and develop.
As a person.
And I think, you know, anotheraspect we've talked about
whether what the value is ofjust cutting people out.
I think it's worth, you know,realizing that the power of
association is massive.
And so you can't be a dynamic,changing, growing person and

(01:25:50):
surround yourself with peoplewho don't value those things,
who have a certain conservatismof personality where like, these
are my traits, this is who I am,deal with it.
And if you surround yourselfwhen I meet

Tali (01:26:03):
those people, I'm be like, f bye.

Cody (01:26:04):
Yeah, exactly.
That, that's my point though, isthat in a lot of the situations
that you and I have been talkingabout with conflict with people,
it's kind of the attitude thatwe got back from them, right?
Like, well, this is thesituation.
Sorry, it didn't work out foryou.
Or sorry, you're not happy withit.
Sorry, this was all you, youknow, like there's, there's no
ownership, there's no there's noquestioning and there's no

(01:26:28):
desire at all on the otherperson's part for change,
growth, connection,acknowledgement.
Like, none of none of that'sthere.
It's like, well, what other,what other choice do you have
other than just cut that kind ofperson outta your life?
Well, and

Tali (01:26:42):
I also wrote a note that says, like, to not take yourself
too seriously, and I think thiscould be looked at him in a
couple of ways.
It's like, it, it, it's kind ofa dichotomy in and of itself,
but like, in a way, I don't takemy, I try not to take myself too
seriously to where I'm not tiedto any of those things.

(01:27:06):
Like, I want to be able to befluid.
I want to be able to try things.
I want to be able to fuck up thecr like, you know Bounce back
and like have resilience.
But at the same time, I feellike that in and of itself is
taking myself seriously.

(01:27:26):
Like I'm trying to exercise allthat I'm capable of and try to
be my best self through thatmethodology.
Mm-hmm.
If that makes sense.
You know, if you wanna live yourlife fully, which is the point
of this podcast and really themission that we have for our
work that takes loosening all ofthose joints, loosening all of

(01:27:54):
those screws to be pliable,creative, inventive Explorative.
You know, like you have to beable to let go of narratives,
truths about ourselves in orderto become something else.
Mm-hmm.
If you wanna be the same personfor the rest of your life, like

(01:28:16):
that's your prerogative.
It's not really what we'reencouraging here.
And obviously not a trait that,you know, when we get a whiff of
it, it's not very inspiring tomove forward with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's why like, as crazy asthings have been at my work with
like huge changes, I have suchmad respect for my boss to just

(01:28:37):
like, change our life at thedrop of a hat.
Mm-hmm.
Because a, a situation that feltright to her, she's acting on
it.
Like, that's fucking huge tothink like, oh, well I have all
these products that like alludeto Wallowa County, I can't
change that, so I'm gonna haveto be here forever.
That's not, that's not real.
Like, that's not a real conslike Way of being constricted.

(01:29:01):
Mm-hmm.
You know, you create that foryourself, you can do it
anywhere.
Mm-hmm.
And so I have to kind of takethat note of like, I don't have
to have a brick and mortar to besuccessful.
I don't have to work with peopleface to face to be successful,
but I can also say that that'swhat I wanna do.
There's a difference.

(01:29:23):
It felt really relevant to aconversation that I had this
week and kind of a proud moment.
It felt really good to lean intothat.
Mm-hmm.
So I, I have a lot of hope thatI'll finally get some traction
out of this narrative that I'vebeen steeped in for years now.
Mm-hmm.

(01:29:43):
And I kind of hope to like neverhave to tell the story again.
You know, when people are like,why aren't you lifting anymore?
I don't, I want people to belike, so why do you lift?
And I'll tell them all theamazing things of why.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I wanna be on thatside of the equation finally.
And I think what you and I haveplanned, like for the space and
what I have going on with myschedule, it's really possible.

(01:30:06):
And I'm excited about thatbecause that's when I really
step into my power and what Ilove so much and what I want to
give to people.
And I'm kind of just like, readyto be done.
I'm ready to be done with thatpart of my life.
Mm-hmm.
Good.
Yeah.

Cody (01:30:21):
Good to hear.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Let me know how I can help.
Oh, you know how you can helpbecause you have patterns that
keep creeping back like I

Tali (01:30:31):
do.
Yeah.
Well, I try to be vocal aboutthem as much as possible when I
notice it.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Cody (01:30:37):
Good.
Well, I think there's a lot ofinteresting ideas here, and it's
a complex web of weaving.
Well just try to all theseparts.

Tali (01:30:50):
Yeah.
And I think it's just a matterof noticing.

Cody (01:30:52):
Yeah.
Noticing is definitely half thebattle.
I think that's, you know, that'sthe value of psychoanalysts is
like helping you notice things.
The thing that drove me nutsabout therapy was I never seem
to get tangible advice.

(01:31:13):
It's like, what?
It's like reminds me of themovie, the Ref, you know, when
they're in the counselor'soffice and, and they're like,
well, what do you think aboutthis?
And he's like, I'm not here topick sides, or, and he's like,
well, what fucking good are you?

Tali (01:31:27):
Well, those people were also incredibly heated.
You know, it's really hard tosee possibility when you're in
a.
In a head space like that.
Yeah.
And I was just kind of thinkingback to like a couple days ago
where I was so exhausted and Icould feel myself being like
snippy or sad or like kind oflike unproductive.

(01:31:48):
And I remember just being like,I think I'm feeling this way
because I'm just really tired.
Yeah.

Cody (01:31:52):
Yeah.

Tali (01:31:54):
That's really helpful to know.
Like it's not you.
Mm-hmm.
You are not this way.

Cody (01:32:00):
Yeah.
Well, goes back to thatawareness, right?
Yeah.
Being self-aware is huge

Tali (01:32:07):
and be with a partner who will help you be aware, you
know?
Yeah.

Cody (01:32:12):
I think one of our, one of the reasons you and I are good
for each other is that we striveto want to be good for each
other.

Tali (01:32:20):
Like it, and in real ways, not just like, I'm gonna do
things for you to be a goodwife.
Mm-hmm.
It's like, I'm gonna work onmyself so that I'm not a piece
of shit and that I'm enjoyableto be around.
No, that's what I mean.
Consider it.

Cody (01:32:32):
That's what I mean.
I feel like you and I both wannarise to try to be our best
selves because we wanna be thatfor each other

Tali (01:32:39):
too.
Yes.
Yes.
And that's the important part isthat it starts with us.
Mm-hmm.
Like we are no good to eachother.
If, if it's all for the sake ofthe other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Be with, it's kinda like theoxygen mask thing.
Yeah.
You gotta put it on yourselffirst before you put it on
someone else.
Absolutely.

Cody (01:32:56):
Yeah.
I wish more people recognizedthat, that the first place to
start to work on yourrelationship is with yourself or
how to

Tali (01:33:04):
change the world.
Yeah.

Cody (01:33:06):
You know, it's the same thing.
Well, that's what the, that'swhat, that's all there is, is a
relationship with you and oneother person.
Like, there's no such thing as.
Society.
I know that's a weird thing tosay, but society is just a
mental construct.
We're all just fuckingindividuals.
It's made of individuals.
Yeah.
We're all just individualshaving relationships with each
other.
So if you really want to changethe world, you know, start with

(01:33:30):
becoming as self-aware as youcan.
Yeah.
About your own cognitive biasesand your cognitive dissidents
and the things that youcontradict yourself on.
And Yes.
You know, if everyone was kindof on that mindset of that per
type of personal development,then society would sort of fall

Tali (01:33:49):
into place it would.
And inspiring goodness ratherthan forcing people to do what
you want them to do.

Cody (01:33:54):
Yeah.
I mean, that's a good point.
Yeah.

Tali (01:33:58):
Yeah.
It has to start with you.
Yeah.
Otherwise, if you don't havethat credibility or if you're
doing it by force, like whatcredibility do you have?
Yeah.
You're just inflicting moreviolence.
Yeah.
To combat violence.

Cody (01:34:09):
Yeah.
Well, I don't think good ideasrequire.
The use of force.
No, that's a, if it's a goodidea, you should be able to
convince people that it's a goodidea without shoving a gun in
their face.
Right.
Yeah.

Tali (01:34:22):
Well, it's a lovely place to end things, don't you think?

Cody (01:34:26):
Yeah, I sleep on that, everybody on this, but
interesting combo, baby.
Yeah.
We'll see you all in a week.
I, thanks for listening, both ofyou who listen to this podcast.
There's no assumption thatyou're gonna be on long for the
ride.
So when I see the people who arelistening to this, I just want
you to know.
I really appreciate it.

(01:34:46):
Oh yeah.
I think it's awesome.
So thanks for being here for theride and

Tali (01:34:50):
join the conversation.
We would love to have you.

Cody (01:34:52):
Yeah, there's a little button on our website and just
hit that button and give us alittle comment or question or
whatever and add to theconversation because the mo
Anyway.
I love

Tali (01:35:04):
you.
I love you too.
This episode was produced byTali Zabari and Cody Limbaugh.
Check out our writing, coachingservices and home studying
adventures at live all yourlife.com.
For show notes, resourcesmentioned, or to submit a
question or contribution, clickon the podcast tab.

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